As far as I know...no one is telling the pastor that he cannot do anything. People are saying, if you do X then Y will happen and I believe it to be so. This is a clear cut freedom of speech/religion issue and has nothing to do with immigration and law enforcement.

gave up,

It seems to me, by your rationalization, that becuase others do bad things, that we should be alright with this Book burning.

This is the United States of America. We are supposed to be a shining example to the rest of the world. We should never allow ourselves to be brought down to 'their' level. Never.

Odd, isn't it, that his "church" is called "Dove World Outreach Center" which would lead one to think that his followers are interested in reaching out to the rest of the world in the name of peacel. I think the guy couldn't find a job anywhere else and decided to open a church. He's showing true psychotic tendencies. From the statements he's made, he has no clue what the religion of Islam is about.

I concur Ted. One of my favorite quotes that summarizes this succinctly is "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." Burning their book or flag or whatever because they burn ours is a stupid argument. It proves nothing other than our ability to sink to their level.

I think this article's title is correct. I doubt this guy has any recognition of the impact his actions have on others. He's too excited by the attention and clamor he's created to see the bigger picture.

Once again, just because their is a right to do something,doesn't mean it's right to do it. I hope the Rev. will reconsider and find some other way to show contempt for Radical Islam !!

Bobo, It seems we call one idiot an idiot, and the call the other idiot - religously persecuted. If we were honest, we would see these are the same issues. We just let one slide because he is muslim.

Islam is a peaceful religion with some pretty obnoxious zealots who have ruined its reputation for the vast majority of peaceable followers. Would you say that the violent Crusades of the 12th century were an adequate representation of Christianity? I would not.

I agree, Mozzie-6. Intentionally fanning the flames of hatred and putting our troops, our world, our country, our people, and innocent lives in danger because of ignorance of the religion of Islam is psychotic. I have no knowledge of Islam, but I do know a religious zealot when I see one. Can we put him in a box for awhile until he regains some sense of sanity?

BoBo,

Good choice of names, because you're acting like a clown. The two examples you give for illustration are different. The fact that both involve Muslims does not make them the same. On one hand you're saying it's okay for this guy to burn the Quran with his first amendment rights, but do not grant the same rights to the Imam in New York. These are clearly not the same issue.

Gave Up: The Supreme Court ruled on Freedom of Speech and Expression. While he may have the legal right to Speach and Expression, which allows him to burn the Koran.... The Law also makes him responsible for the consequences of his actions.

If the Intentional and Knowing Actions of an individual cause the death of another, he is guilty of Neglegent homicide aka Manslaughter. In this case, at a minimum he will be guilty of Depraved Indifference upon the death of the first American. The Federal Authorities should be standing at his front door waiting to arrest him. Also, he doesn't have a permit for the Bonfire. The Local authorities should arrest and detain him Immediately when the first match is struck.

The fact that he has been warned that his actions will likely cause the death of another, he could be charged with: Depraved Indifferance: To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.

They blood of dead American soldiers will be on his ignorant hick head.

It MAY be time for America to update the constitution or bill of rights...it MAY be time to NOT accept every Tom Dick and Harry or rather every Pedro, Adbul, or Haji that wanders across the boarder or floats across the ocean...perhaps some good of this will come. We sit with tolerance while radicals burn our flags, effigies of our leaders and rip apart bibles and ban christianity. The fact that they can't and won't be tolerant defines the difference between us and them. I'm all for outreaching a friendly peaceful hand, but when it's been bitten once too often, not so much anymore.

Hey Booboo, you rationalize by twisting the truth. Amazing. The business about building a mosque or a community center (which is what it is) NEAR ground zero is the business and only the business of the people who own that property. Their religion is not an OFFENSE to anyone other than your ilk. In this country, your freedom is not abridged because others don't like your religion, or even if some fool radical did something in the name of their twisted version of the religion. Finally, this man can burn bibles and books, and korans, I don't care. Yes, regular Muslims will just see it for what it is: a clown acting the fool, nothing new. But if that action results in US soldiers having more difficulties because it gives more fuel to radical nuts, then he can take it up with his own god.

Hey "not so fast," you must go to bed at night and dream most of that nonsense up.

This is the same type of crap the terrorists use to get the ignorant populace to rise up. Nice going Rev. Bozo for doing al-Quada's job for them.

If Muslim extremists want to burn the Bible, so be it. Doesn't mean I have to be equally stupid, arrogant and acting like a complete child.

Same with burning our Flag, etc.

The point is this: Americans are supposed to be leaders of democracy and take the high-road on issues such as this.

What's very sad is that we have a Religious leader who is way down in the trenches with our enemy.

He's just as bad as the ones we're trying to defeat.

After being extremely offended by this "pastor's" intended actions, I realized that the saying "you cannot control what other people do; you can only control what YOU do" applies here. I hope there is going to be many peaceful demonstrations by large numbers of average, rational-minded Americans expressing religious tolerance. I hope they do this as close as they legally can to this pastor's display of gross ignorance, as well as all around the country, and divert attention to themselves so the world understands that the burning is an act by this country's own extremists and does not define who we are.

The press needs to stop covering this guy. The attention only makes it more likely that he will do this.

Obviously, we can't tell the press what to report, but clearly they could decide on their own not go cover the event, take pictures, etc.

"Good choice of names, because you're acting like a clown. The two examples you give for illustration are different. The fact that both involve Muslims does not make them the same. On one hand you're saying it's okay for this guy to burn the Quran with his first amendment rights, but do not grant the same rights to the Imam in New York. These are clearly not the same issue."

They are the same issue. And thats not what i said at all. Im saying - if your granting the right in the name of religious freedom to one of these two idiots, you have to grant it to both idiots. Pretty much the opposite of what you said. My point -and the similarity between the two is really simple.

They both have the RIGHT to do their idiocy, but that doesnt mean its the RIGHT thing to do. So if you support one, you have to support the other, even if you disagree with the taste of it.

"Islam is a peaceful religion with some pretty obnoxious zealots who have ruined its reputation for the vast majority of peaceable followers. Would you say that the violent Crusades of the 12th century were an adequate representation of Christianity? I would not."

Of course not, nor did i say that, but it is muslims that riot - just extreme muslims. My point was it seems we have no problem as a nation ripping on every religion EXCEPT Islam, mainly because we fear how they will react. To me, that is silly. I would be saying the same thing of Christianity if someone burned a bible and Christians started rioting and killing people.

There are extremes in every religion, race, sex, political affiliation etc- thats not the norm. If its not the norm, why would i have to specifically say "Radical muslims" its inferred based upon what is viewed as the norm. The norm of any non-radical group - is that they are not radical.

Maybe if you grew a gay-domination mustache people would listen to you!

This is not the creation of a little preacher with 20 followers, had not our sensationalism driven media blown this story into what it is, there would only had been a bonfire and smoke in the eyes of 21 people, the insignificant event would have passed the rest of us by, we never knowing it had happened.

But thanks to a modern media that cares more to entertain than report real news, any person with a cause can do the outrageous and draw the attention of the world no matter the consequences.

Irresponsible!

The media is the main culprit here. If they hadn't given this nut all this attention, this never would have been blown up into this mess.

@ JoeB-460595

You had best check your own Bible ... there are more than enough radical Christian organizations registered with the FBI as hate groups than I believe you'd care to count (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map for a fairly current interactive map), and you'd better come to grip with how they justify their actions; the "literal word of God". From this vantage, these not-so-very Christians wilfully pursue policies of racial and ethnic persecution, preach the doctrine of hate on local radio and via the internet, and have perpetrated murderous attacks on American citizens for a very long time. Domestic terrorism enjoys support from every book of faith, including the Bible, and you might turn your nit-wittery loose on those advocating the application of terror as a means of control or deterrence … we call those people “terrorists” for a reason.

I think it's great that the world is against what this guy is doing, but they don't say a damn thing about burning the US Flag, the Bible, or a manikin looking like a US President in effigy.

When was the time any of this happened? You no doubt have been outraged by the teabagger signs depicting President Obama as a psychotic criminal.

Incidents like this are the reason that as we age we learn to stop saying, "Now, I've seen everything."

I simply cannot imagine what point this Terry Jones is making. I can't imagine what school of divinity taught him to humiliate the adherents of another religion by burning their holy book, a book that by his own admission he hasn't even read.

If the media are seriously looking for idiots to cover in the "news", they don't even have to leave their office. The Assignment Editor who calls this news is an idiot. If the media are looking for crazy people, just about any big city has "religious" folks, clutching their Bibles and screaming on street corners.

The point that this guy is making - without knowing it - is that the media no longer recognize news. They are a flash and trash magic show. They are carnival barkers. They are an embarrassing side show in a circus of freaks. Mainstream media? Lamestream media? It doesn't matter what you call them, they are a disgrace.

I'm thinking Pastor Terry Jones must be related to Jim Jones...

You know, the leader of "Jim Jones punch and Guyana Cookies" fame. They're both a couple of nutjobs.

I'm really not sure whether I'm more fearful of the radical nutjob "Islamists" or the radical nutjob "Christians". They're all a bunch of freaks.

You'll never see the media accept responsibility though. As was said, if no media- then it would be a fire with 30 idiots standing around burning qurans. End of story, noone wasting anyone. But the media fans the flames, and when it hits the fan, the media will be standing there pointing fingers accepting no fault.

If our Pastor suggested anything close to this, I'd walk out of Mass and look for a new Parish.

Terry Jones is only a leader because he has followers. His parishoners are disappointed this subject is the only thing the world knows of them. I don't have to know anything more about them to know they aren't Christians.

Hey, if somebody went to all the trouble to pull this guy out of a passing boxcar, the LEAST we can do is figure out how to end the human race before things get really spooky around here! I'm waiting next for a collector's DVD of Koran-burning news videos, complete with introduction by that Sham Wow guy!

The freedom of speech is one of the greatest rights we Americans have. That right should never be denied to anyone. However, the right does not apply when expressing one's views puts other American citizens (namely our soldiers) and the security of this country at risk. If the Rev. Jones follows through with the burning, he should be immediately arrested and placed in judicial custody.

@Harry: I know where you are coming from, but this is exactly covered in the 1st Amendment. He has every right, no matter how dumb an idea this is. Context really doesn't matter here because he isn't releasing state secrets and he isn't a government employee working from an official office.

Even if he does it, the government should absolutely not prevent them from speaking out or carrying out their stupid little naziesque book burning unless there becomes an immediate threat of danger there. We should never censor our population but on the same hand, we shouldn't exactly be giving this idiot a speaking platform either. Unfortunately, media hype is a self perpetuating monster with an unquenchable appetite.

This is a win/win maneuver on the part of the religious right. They both get to incite hatred and fear on the behalf of people from all sides and they get to criticize the president for either censoring this guy if the white house does contact him or for letting him do whatever he wants if they don't call him. They also get to blame it all on the fictional "liberal jew run media" if anything bad happens as a result of this horse crap.

I don't even have to tune into Fox News to hear the headlines. After it all goes down, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy got a job a Fox News as a color commentator.

If X takes place then Y then Y will take place ???????????

X being practicing a basic freedom in America or doing what the Muslims are wanting to do at Ground zero

Y being Muslims acting like muslims - killing people and terrorizing people.

This whole thing has come down to black mail by terrorism. If you do this - get ready and be afraid becuase we are going to kill people. Terrorists - everyone of them.

If they we what they want us to believe they are and represent who they want us to believe they represent - they would not want to build their Mosque at the Ground Zero site.

It is just about them getting their way in everything these day and if they dont - they are going to kill people - kill American people.

If that is not Terrorism then I don't know what is.......

If X happens - they we will fly plane loads full of people int o buildings in Miami or Chicago.

These people are the enemy of America - they already do the things that they are threatening to do. They burn our flag - they burn our holy books - they burn effigies of our presidents - they burn and disrespect any and all things American.

Death to the terrorists.

Thr government protects the rights of a Muslim mosque to built next to Ground Zero (This has nothing to do with religious freedom, it's about real estate) against the will of 77% of American citizens, but our government does all it can, including FBI visits to this guy that want to burn the quran (Turning up the heat on him) to stop his right to burn a couple of qurans on his property and he has a right to do that if he paid for them. If he uses a chimnea outdoors, I guess even the Fire Marshall may not be able to stop him. The only reason this is such a big story is that the media shows this all day for the last week. Look, Muslim have been practicing Islam for years here, they have built many mosques here, we just do not want a Memorial to the Muslim Extremists next to ground zero. Anyone that believes this is a good thing is a moron, anyone that thinks this is being built for making amends for 9/11 is a moron and anyone that thinks Islam is a peaceful forgiving religion is a moron (they have fighting themselves for a 1000 years). Does everyone forget about Muslim men, Women and Children dancing and Praising Allah on the day of and days after 9/11 right here in America (Detroit, New York and elsewhere) ? I am for as many of the 77% of Americans are for them building this mosque a few more blocks away, but they insist on building it there, why ? because it is a Muslim Memorial for what Muslims did on 9/11 to the great US Devil, that's why they will not move it.

I do not believe this guy is a man of the cloth....sorry, my take is no one should burn or deface anything that has to do with religion. NO MATTER WHOSE RELIGION IT IS!!! It should be illegal to preform such acts. A man of GOD would never burn or deface a bible in any form. This is islams bible, a bible is a bible he might as well burn his own. I would like to see him explain it to the lord...This guy is such a racist pig. I am not islam, I am 100% american and proud to be, but my belief takes me well above what this guy is planning. I hope the good lord comes down and smacks a knot on this guys head. Because he is in desperate need of it.

And Islam smiles as it's enemies fight for it's equality, shielding it from scrutiny with their laws and constitution, all while murdering it's enemy's citizens. Political correctness has gone WAY too far. The have no interest in co-existing. They want nothing more then total domination, and some of you are so blind to it that you're actually DEFENDING them. It's ludicrous! They're basically telling us, If you burn our book (like we do to your flag and bible every other day), we're going to kill your people. And STILL people defend Islam. If a Christian church were to make that threat, there'd be more FBI agents then you could count on the news running in and out of the church. But apparently it's okay to be any religion in this country has lone as you aren't Christian, even if that religion is the basis for violence around the world. I doubt the forefathers of this country anticipated a combative force that hid behind religion when they crafted the First Amendment.

You know what is really moronic, what kind of religion is Islam if you have to worry about who they'll kill or what buildings they'll blow up, because a guy burnt a couple of books? Sure they can protest it, announce their condemnation of it, but how religious are they if their response is just more violence as they have done in the past. Worse yet, I have yet to hear somebody that is an Islamic authority really forcefully condemn the 9/11 attacks. Why, because they truly believe that we asked for it, just like the Obama administration believes we asked for it and tried to apologise for and now he is for the mosque to be built near ground zero. No matter what we do, apologise, let them build this mosque at ground zero, stop the quran burning or anything else, they will still hate us, despise us, we will still be infidels and they will still want to kills us. it is in the quran and they have been taught we are devils since they were young, it will take generations to take away the mistrust and hate for us. The Mosque at ground Zero is just a Muslim Memorial to the 9/11 attacks on the great US devil, nothing more.

sami127 > The pastor thinks the Quran is the Devil's Bible and he may be right from what I've seen of some of the followers of Islam. I this great nation of freedom and democracy, we even protect the rights of devil worshipers if it does not intrude on our rights. He is totally free to burn any book he owns and paid for on his property, as long as he burns them within the fire code laws of his state (an outdoor chiminea).

@gharms: We aren't at war with Islam, we are at war with terrorism. There is a significant difference. There are 1.4 billion muslims and only a small relative handful of muslim terrorists. At the beginning of the war in Afghanistan there were only 1000 members of Al-Qaeda. The problem is, with people like you and people like the terrorists, you don't see the difference between Islam and the radical minority of violent Muslim terrorists. If the war was on Islam, we would lose it before we ever fired a shot. How does a nation with only 300 million people fight a war against a religion that is spread to every country across the globe?.

You would have the military do what exactly? Just kill every muslim on sight? Commit genocide? Social cleansing like the nazies? Because your argument mirrors Nazi propaganda against the minorities of Europe almost exaclty. That is a many-faceted fools errand. It's the work of a madness and blind stupidity in high gear irrationality.

Most muslims are peaceful people with no designs on world conquest through violence. If you can't see that, if you are so blinded by the acts of a few bad apples who mostly kill their own people, and you would paint everyone of the religion in the same light including the victims of extremists, you are not much of a man at all, or perhaps from a different perspective in the words of Friedrich Nietzsche, you are "all too human" entirely. Too common for the good of your fellow man.

Seems to me like the Freedom of the Press had created the most problem here. How did the whole world come to find out about this? Unless the Pastor made it known world wide. A rural area of Gainsville Florida? The press creates plenty of these problems and make a fortune doing it.

I can see it now, they'll probably have many large pictures on the walls of the towers crumbling a falling down on 9/11 in the lobby area of the new Moque at Ground Zero.

TopicNumb > We call them terrorists because they are. And now they threaten more if they don't get to build their Muslim Memorial Mosque at ground Zero. And they threaten more violence if this guy burns the Quran. They sound like terrorists to me.

Yeah. You're right. They all just wanna hold hands and sing songs. Leaders of their churches and countries are calling for violence against americans if we don't bow down to their will and not burn a book, an action, that I might add, is protected under the same amendment they keep throwing around when discussing the building of their mosque. But even after they blow something up, you'll still be on here telling yourself that "most of them" are peace loving individuals, and "people like me" will be here to say we warned you.

you are "all too human" entirely. Too common for the good of your fellow man.

Sorry that I'm so far below you that you have to take time out of your enlightened life to show me the way, btw. It must be lonely up there on your ivory pedestal.

I truly hope everybody knows that this is the ONLY Country left that has the freedoms that we still have.

I sure hope we fight to keep it. There is nowhere else to run. Why do you think everyone comes here.

@Gharms: Has it ever occurred to you, that you only hear or know about the bad things that are done by Muslims because those are the only ones you pay attention to?

Kareem Abdul Jabar is a muslim, and he never hurt anyone and is pretty well known to have been a good man. Muhammed Ali, also a muslim who is well known for his kindness and generosity with poor children around the globe. Cat Stevens, muslim and popular singer who frequently works to end violence and disease in Africa because it is not only the will of his religion but also the right thing to do.

There are muslim Doctors who work with Doctors without borders, Muslim soldiers serving right now in the US military. Those are our finest young men, our finest, most loyal country men. If you can't acknowledge the individual and rightfully earned choices of our own soldiers, and some of our most honored dead, then what kind of American is that? Nothing of the sort. It was a Muslim lawyer in Iraq that lead marines to Jessica Lynch because in his own words, every life is sacred.

You see only what you want to see, because you want somebody to hate. They all must be bad to you, because you don't have the willingness or capacity to accept the opinions of others as valid; you hate what's different and unfamiliar because you don't control it, just like the terrorists.

Go on, hate with blindness, and when you reach an old age, you can either be an old fool or see the fool you used to be as clearly as I see you now.

No, YOU'RE assuming that the 4 celebrities you can name who are Muslim are the norm. You're assuming that the Muslims I SERVED WITH, are the norm. Seems the fool is you. Even a man I served with in Iraq and Afghanistan said it seemed his religion was more and more filled with hatred then love. And this is from a DEVOUTLY Muslim man. You go on believing in the name of political correctness that Muslims are all sunshine and rainbows. I'll go off my first hand observations of those who used their women and children to blow up soldiers. Those who we were there to help that were all too willing to kill us in the name of their religion. I'll take the word of men I call my brothers that are Muslim who stated daily that they believe they are now the minority in a religion perverted by the majority and the people in power to justify violence.

I also noticed you completely ignored the fact that we're allowing Muslims to spout the First Amendment at us for their mosque, but are entirely intolerant to a man who wants to exercise that same right by burning the Qu'ran. These are also the same people who burned our flag and danced in the street across the WORLD when the towers fell. Shame on you for taking up their cause.

Bottom line.: Are there wonderful peace loving Muslims out there? Yes. Are they the majority? Maybe. Do you know for sure? No. Stop spouting your opinion as fact and realize that if I'm wrong, no harm no foul, we're just vigilant to the threat of terrorism. If you're wrong, you're looking the other way while the boot of Islam steps down harder on your throat.

PS: I never said kill them, I never said I hated them as a whole. You assumed that because I am opposed to Islam as a religion. I'm not a fan of Mormonism either, but then again, they don't have members trying to kill me and my fellow soldiers.

This guy really is a national security threat and should be jailed. ... Along with some in the media who are keeping this absurd story alive.

The Media does not recognize lasting impact of reporting burning plan.

Now that should be the headline.

Please do not give this crack-pot one more second of media time.

@Gharms: It's not a matter of IF I am right, I know that I am. If most muslims were violent or even 10%, the world would be gripped in a state of Armageddon. That would be a 140 million terrorists... Almost half the population of the United States.

I used those people as examples because they are well known; you are making the mistake of using heuristics (stereotypes) to describe Muslims. You think just because you were in the service with a muslim guy that makes you an expert on the subject? Big deal. So the Muslim guy you served with tried to kill you? No? But I thought muslims were evil as a rule? Thanks for proving my point.

Wow. Huge surprise that you picked and chose what you were going to read out of my post so that you could try to prove your opinion was fact. Majority =/= all. You should really take a math class. That is NOT what I said, but thanks for proving MY point that you believe your opinion is fact.

Your false analogy is about the dumbest I've ever heard. Let's put it this way:

Are all racists out trying to lynch people? No? Then we must not have any racism anymore!

Just because all Muslims aren't out blowing things up does not mean they do not condone those that do. Moderate Muslims have NEVER stood up against the violence, with the exception of 9/11, and honestly, that was more about self preservation then outrage.

But hey, you keep on believing the world is all sunshine and lollipops. What's the worst that could happen?

@Gharms: Once again, we are not at war with Islam. Islam did not fly any planes into buildings, Al-Qaeda did. Opening a Mosque has nothing to do with terrorism or acts of violence. There is no connection between them other than the guys who did it were Muslim who killed muslims along with everyone else in their attack. Also, the Mosque isn't at ground zero, it's two and a half blocks away. Have you ever even been to Manhattan? There is a strip club closer than that. Opening a Mosque isn't an attempt to insult or fan the fires of violence. Did you know there is a Christian church two blocks away from the site where a bunch of christian guys dropped a nuclear bomb at Nagasaki?

There's even a Japanese cultural center near Pearl Harbor. Why? Because a bunch of Japanese people live in Honolulu. Nobody cares. But I'm a bad person according to you, because I support the right of Muslim Americans to worship freely. They didn't advertise this stuff to the local media or try to rub it in everyone's face. Good muslims denounce terrorist activities all the time. Is this a Al-Qaeda orthodox Mosque? They recruiting for the Taliban? Are there guys standing on the street burning bibles and passing out "Osama Bin Laden was Right!" paraphenalia? No? Well then, they aren't trying to hurt anyone are they? They're just trying to have a nice convenient place to sit down with their friends and discuss god. What's the harm in that?

This guy in florida is intentionally trying to stir up hatred. He's burning those Korans with the intention of sending the message that he thinks Islam should be destroyed. If in your mind, those two things are equal, there is nothing I can do to convince you of the error of your thinking.

Didn't Jesus say something about loving your enemies? Turn the other cheek? No? Well, thanks for clearing that up for me.

We ran out of cheeks to turn years ago. The nice guy always finishes last.

Also, Nagasaki was not a terrorist attack, nor was it sanctioned by religious leaders.

@Gharms: The phrase "as a rule", means that a thing more often than not adheres to the rule. In other words, MOST. Basic reading comprehension seems to be a trouble spot for you, may I suggest putting the GI Bill to use?

I'm sorry, you're suggesting that Bin Laden was some kind of renowned religious leader in Islam? He's not even an Imam.

Bin Laden was wanted all over the middle east for crimes when the attacks were made on the WTC. He wasn't exactly a beloved figure of the Muslim community.

"as a rule"

Definition: normal way to do something; usual manner

Explanation: Used when expressing routines

Most =/= all. You're saying I made the blanket statement that all Muslims are evil. But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone like you. You're also the one that thinks no one can be covert about condoning things. Everyone says everything they believe always for public record apparently. As a rule, you're someone who only listens to those that believe what you say as law, and if you do happen to read someone who doesn't think how you do, you take excerpts out of context to prove your prior opinion as fact. So, one could draw the conclusion that as a rule, you're a moron.

You are saying that most musims are evil, but you take exception to the phrase 'as a rule'? I see. Clearly, I've gone too far and must be stopped before I spread my plague of misinformation...

so let me get this straight: you are saying clearly that most muslims are bad and treating their religion as a evil thing is the correct course of action, but it's NOT okay for me to assume that you think muslims are bad "as a rule?" Somehow, that's crossing the line of unreasonable?

Clearly, you're one of the great thinkers of our generation and I should marvel at your avant-garde use of logic. You're right, I'll call my alma mater immediately and have them revoke my academic credentials because they were clearly given out by mistake. How could I have been so wrong?

Well, it's Saturday Beerman, so you'll have to wait to call your community college till Monday.

If you were truly as smart as you think you are on all of these subjects, you'd write these stories, not post on them. Go back to your ivory tower with all the other self proclaimed intellectuals.

I agree. In America, and perhaps only in America, free speech trumps all religions, including Islam.

In America, US Constitution > Koran. In Muslim countries, not so much. This is the disconnect.

Will some Muslims get upset? Most certainly. Dutchman Theo van Gogh found out what happens when you dare insult Islam, being a non-Muslim himself.

To Americans, free speech is far more sacred than the Koran. In western culture, to oppress free speech is sacrilege.

We'll see how Muslims respect our ideal of free speech after the burn.

Rickeroo,

Do you think that Free Speech is greater than the Bible?

They are not burning the Bible in Muslim Countries, I wonder how the Christians would feel about that? I don't think this "pastor" cares a lick about anyone else. How many of you have family in Iraq, Afghanistan? This guy does not care about their safety. He is urging them to fire on troops with more zeal.

Ted:

Do you think that Free Speech is greater than the Bible?

Absolutely. Burn Korans, Bibles, burn American flags, hold Nazi marches in Ohio. Free speech is a cornerstone of freedom and America itself.

Lose freedom here, and there is no where else to turn to. 45 seconds, well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPvuYxUxEto

Freedom of Speech will not save this Idiot.

The Supreme Court ruled on Freedom of Speach and Expression. While he may have the legal right to Speach and Expression, which allows him to burn the Koran.... The Law also makes him responsible for the consequences of his actions.

If the Intentional and Knowing Actions of an individual cause the death of another, he is guilty of Neglegent homicide aka Manslaughter. In this case, at a minimum he will be guilty of Depraved Indifference upon the death of the first American.

The Federal Authorities should be standing at his front door waiting to arrest him. Also, he doesn't have a permit for the Bonfire. The Local authorities should arrest and detain him Immediately when the first match is struck.

The fact that he has been warned that his actions will likely cause the death of another, he should be arrested and charged with: Depraved Indifferance: To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant's conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.

When does "free speech" give way to "clear and present danger?" This malicious act, created purely as politico-religious ego-righteousness, is already putting our troops in danger, and is obviously disrupting the lives of the community. He's not just yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, he's lighting the match. What IS the "clear & present danger" clause for if not to save us from insanity like this?

The congregation is wearing guns??? Another looney apocalyptic cult. But this one bound & determined to take the rest of us with them.

Thanks Rickaroo,

Just trying to see what I'm dealing with in your post. I completely agree with your statement. I appreciate your pointing out the negative consequences in your "let's see what they think of our free speech" portion.

Free Speech is the cornerstone of American liberty. But, as in all other aspects of life, every action has its reaction.

MMC Streamsnipe,

As much as I am against this reprehensible action, I do not believe arrests will be made; even if the Burning causes deaths. Nor do I think there should be.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right.

Ted,

Once again, Freedom of Speech does not protect an act that causes or will likely cause Serious Injury or Death to another. Like Onery Dem states above. You have the right to Freedom of Speech, but you cannot yell Fire in a Theater.

As you said, every action has a reaction. When you know what the Reaction is, and you do it with wanton disregard....The Courts have ruled many times that, "If an act will or a reasonable person may assume that it will bring "Injury or Death", it is a chargeable offense under Depraved Indiference.

Depraved Indifference carries the same penalty as if you committed the Injury or caused the Death of another.

If no one dies or is seriously injured, he dodges this under Freedom of Speech. If someone does die or is seriously injured in response to his actions..... The Law of Our Land Demands he be procecuted. The wide-spread news coverage and photos of his arrest and conviction will calm the "world reaction".

I dont condone what this whack job is going to do - but I also dont agree that his actions are "causing people's deaths"...and the conversation suggesting as such is insulting. Apparently the whack job muslims that will be reacting to this, have ZERO CONTROL over their response? Here's what the media SHOULD be saying:

here's a whack job religous zealot in florida...and here are whack job muslims saying what they'll do in response. CAN THE SANE CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS PLEASE STAND UP AND BE HEARD?

Try reading a bible in public in at least a half dozen muslim countries, but they may allow you to burn 200 bibles.

Jessica, I didn't say that they are causing deaths. I am saying, that based on world reaction, the Statements of General Petreus and the President.... There is a reasonable belief that people will be killed as a result of the actions of this nut.

That, by law as defined by the United States Justice System .... If a death or serious injury occurs as a result of his actions is chargeable as "Depraved Indifference". It is the law. Similar as if you stand in a crowded theater and yell, "FIRE". If someone is seriously injured or killed, you will be held accountable (under the law) for your actions. Freedom of Speech does not protect you from the final result.

Dasvet, I have celebrated Catholic Mass in the United Arab Emerites, Oman, Egypt, Kuwait and Bahrain. We were never told to stop reading the Bible. No one sat outside and burned a Bible because we were celebrating Christianity.

And, if anyone had spray painted the outside of the Chapel or meeting place, the Muslim Government would have hunted them down and done far worse than making them clean it and doing community service. But, none of that existed.

The Navy Did conduct culturaly briefings before we went into ANY Country. When in a predominately Muslim Country, we did not eat in public during the day during Ramadan. When in Thailand, we did not pat young children on their heads. We never sat down and put our feet up as to point the soiled sole of our shoes in the direction of any individual. We respected the culture.

Now, in the United States, since we are a diversified nation of Immigrants.... We have a diversified culture as well. When people come to my house, they do not have to remove their shoes. When I go to my friend's house, I Always remove my shoes. If I go somewhere that has a small alter with incense burning, I don't light a cigerette with the incense stick.

I was taught to be respectful of others. I was taught to be accepting of other cultures. It is the one common thread Taught and Preached in Christianity. Some people would do well to read a very old book, "Everything I need to know in life, I learned in Kindergarten".

To MMC:

Your analysis is incorrect. Riots and infliction of personal injury are not rational responses to the burning of a book in this country. There is no plausible legal theory that would hold this pastor or his congregation responsible for personal injuries inflicted by others as a result of the burning of a book. This analysis is somewhat like saying "he made me do it" as a defense if someone says something nasty to you thereby causing you to commit a crime of violence. Whether someone had the foresight to know that an irrational person would react criminally to something that is otherwise legally permissable is wholly irrelevant. Please stop this nonsensical babble.

Well put kmihousO2.

Risandy

They are not burning the Bible in Muslim Countries, I wonder how the Christians would feel about that? I don't think this "pastor" cares a lick about anyone else. How many of you have family in Iraq, Afghanistan? This guy does not care about their safety. He is urging them to fire on troops with more zeal.

NO - they dont burn Bibles in Muslim countries - they burn down the house of the people who read bibles and then catch the people as they run out of the house in the terrorist mob and beat them and then stone them to death if they dont renounce Jesus Christ.

The Bibles get burned in the process of ridding their Islamic world of us Christian Infidels.

There is no tolerance in Muslim countries for anything Christian - period.

If this Pastor in Gainesville was a Muslim clerq - he would be telling his followers to go out and kill the people - burning their holy book would not be severe enough.

You people just dont understand.

He's a bigot pure and simple, didn't Hitler do something similar?

Yes he did, he called for the killing of all jews, fought the united states and the freedoms we cherish. Used violence to spread his beliefs and policies, trained young children to grow up hating and to die for their cause and bombed innocent civilian targets like london. Yes Hitler and the muslims have a LOT in common.

I agree. The media will stoke this BS until some other idiot or event takes away the interest. You know like Bristol Palin tripping over her "modest" lace dance wear. Hey maybe the preacher and Bristol could hook up. Mom would be so proud. Another fake bible thumper in the clan.

Good point!

Are you sure you wanna do that?

Cuz right on cue...July 19th...the first reference to this whole thing being in "the media"...

Fox Business: CAIR Seeks Educational Response to 'Burn a Koran Day'

So first the "ground zero" "mosque" thing, now this, You people are being used...plain and simple.

If you can't tell they push your buttons on purpose, well, at best you're willfully ignorant...

Maybe y'all should start asking more quesitons of your "media" too - for instance "why is faux news trying to whip the patriots into such a froth?"

hey 111pct, you dumbhead, this is all over all the media, notably this website is MSNBC, in case you haven't noticed. They are the main ones wanting to give in too all extremists of all kinds.

...

I think what he is doing is being very brave with other peoples lives. If he really wanted to prove his point, he should fly over to Kabul Afghanistan and burn his Korans there. This is an honest offer. If he will do that, then I will pay for the flight. Most likely just be a one way flight. There is no way he would come home from this. My guess he is not brave enough to do that.

Terrific idea--I would help pay his airfare just to see the look on his face as he was being dragged to the plane

Lets bump him up to business class, I'll help.

It is a double standard. In the fact that we, as Americans, should hold ourselves to a higher standard than people who would do these dispicable things.

Countless Bibles and crosses burned by the muslims! Oh just forget about all the crosses, flags, and Bible quotes burned by the christian knights of the klu klux klan. All you people want to do is blame othe races and religions for sh:: that was started here in this country when people couldn't get what they wanted. Now you aren't even considering the fact that someone or persons you may know couldbe affected by this one person stupidity.GIVE ME A BREAK

KPern:

Believe me, I am against "Pastor" Jones' plan and believe what he is doing is wrong

Actually, Your words indicate that you are not against what he is doing!

Ted, I like how you think.

Be the bigger man, never sink to the level of a lesser man.

The right thing to do is never the easiest, simplest, most convienant or most desireable; it is just the right thing to do and there are no other choice for a good man.

All the philosophies that make the USA the shining city on the hill (or at least, used to be).

Guys, no one is saying this FOOL shouldn't be allowed to burn a Koran just as we have seen images of Crosses, Bibles, and American Flags being burned. It's not a matter of equality in the two actions. It's the fact that NO AMERICAN SOLDIERS were targeted as a result of a bible/cross/flag burning whereas this cook is likely to get someone's son or daughter killed!

I agree with turning the other cheek, but once you've turned and been slapped again and again and again then what?

The good guy always finishes last.

I just hope this guy doesn't mysteriously disappear.

You are spot on.

inflaming what planet? He is probably pissing off a few muslims and scarring the hill out of people like you who think the big bad muslim is going to jump out of the closet and get you in the middle of the night.

Sure it is OK to burn a bible, but oh no not a koran. burn baby burn.

Texas Bob,

Your angered reference to Bible burning leads me to beleive that you are a Christian. Does burning Quorans (sp?) spread the gospel? Does it praise the Lord and elevate his name.

Practice what you preach, sir.

Ted, you miss understood me I think. Whether I am a Christian or not really does not matter at this point. I just used the bible as a referenced since the koran is basically the same for muslims. I could have referenced a flag, or the building of a mosque or a cartoon. You name it I could go on and on about the reason muslim use to perpetuate their cowardly deeds.

The point is if you are not a muslim kneeling down on your prayer rug they don't like you. I for one am tired of the US bowing down and making concessions when ever some group or country says boo. Let them get mad; they are already mad at us.

He doesn't scare me TexasBob! He's an ass hole for doing what he's doing in any one's book. For a "Man of God" he apparently didn't read the fine print. He's a short sighted megalomaniac is what he is. If you want to support this idiot, I would suggest you hop right down there; hold hands with the Moron; Throw your copy in the fire; have your mug on national TV with the idiot and then have some (KIA) soldiers mother hunt you down and ask you why, after the majority of people agree that this will fan the flames of even more hatred and bloodshed, ask you why you stood there with that brain dead Moron.

You don't need to be schooled in psychology or psychiatry to see that this Pastor (term used loosely) isn't wired right. He looks like he just jumped out of a box car.............

As the Quran itself praises the Lord and elevates his name, you'd think "Christians" wouldn't be quite so quick to jump into the fire. Oh, wait -- that means knowing something about the holy book besides the fact that the KKK of the middle east uses it as an excuse to kill Americans. How would you like the KKK to represent themselves as mainstream Christians? Oh, wait -- that's what they're starting to do, now that it's just fine & dandy to hate thy neighbor, thy country, thy president. Damn! There goes my point.

Texas Bob

You are correct, I did misunderstnd your post. But it seems I was correct about your mindset. You state:

The point is if you are not a muslim kneeling down on your prayer rug they don't like you. I for one am tired of the US bowing down and making concessions when ever some group or country says boo. Let them get mad; they are already mad at us.

This is simply an untrue statement. Are there Muslims that hate us? Absolutley. Do most of them? Absolutely not.

A small number of radicals hate us. As do a small number of Christial radicals and Jewish radicals. Your broad brush outlook of a culture with 1 billion+ members is saddening.

And, at least in my case, I haven't see the US 'bow down' to anyone, for any reason.

He doesn't have a fire permit. Therefore, at the first strike of the match, he can be (and should be) arrested.

One would think the same thing about the Iman building the community center/mosque at ground zero - as someone interested in reaching out to the rest of the world in the name of peace - right?

It seems we call one idiot an idiot, and the call the other idiot - religously persecuted. If we were honest, we would see these are the same issues. We just let one slide because he is muslim.

What about the community center / mosque is unpeacful? If the Immam in NY were burning bibles, I'd have a serious issue with this, but he's not. they are building a place of worship on privately owned property.

In the words of my lovely wife, responding to some ignorant sap in our local paper's 'voice of the people'

Build a mosque, build a synagog, build a church. fill the space with love and acceptance.....

We are supposed to be better than the terrorists.........

The actual building- nothing is unpeaceful. But the fact that a radical group of muslims murdered 3000 Americans, then you want to build a Mosque/community center at that site - is disrespectful. Just as its disrespectful to burn the quran.

Look, many people may think im being irrational - i dont think that. I had family and friends die in 9/11 terrorist attack. And yes, it bothers me greatly that the thing is being built. I view it as spitting upon those that were killed.

If the Iman WANTED peace and to promote tolerance - he would be open to moving the site. Because he is so opposed, and refuses to acknowledge the offensiveness to the friends and families of those that died, to me, says - he doesnt care about peace. He doesnt care about tolerance, unless its others tolerating what HE wants.

You dont think that New Yorkers are going to walk by that mosque and not think of all those Americans that were murdered? You dont think thats going to cause resentment and anger? You clearly arent from NY. It will. In the name of peace, and tolerance there is no alternative except to move the mosque. Otherwise, its only going to drive a bigger wedge between muslims and non-muslims.

People will spit on the building, people will make rude statements and gestures, people will heckle those that go to the building. This will happen, emotions are raw. And what will that do? It makes non-muslims grow more distant, angry and distrustful of muslims, and will make more muslims fee the same.

Ted, I agree with you completely. I was teaching at the Surface Warfare Officers School in Newport, RI on 9/11. I had 4 of students my who lost loved ones in the Attack. Two days later I was at ground zero helping to dig for survivors.

I had a fine gentlemen on my Team by the name of Alzubi. He had an Uncle who died in the Attack. And, yes, Alzubi was Muslim. He had been digging since Tuesday (2 hours after the second tower came down) He cursed those responsible for the Attack and swore vengence upon them. It was not until Friday that he took the time to stop for prayers. He said that God would understand. In fact, that day we all stopped to say prayers together. We read from the bible as well as the Koran, the Tanakh and the Torah. We stood side by side as brothers.... Christian, Muslim and Jew.

I have travelled the Middle East throughout my Military career. I have conducted 4 tours in the Sandbox. I Know that the majority of Muslims do not share the radical views of the Fundimentalist Few. The Hate must stop. Until the "Radical Americans" cease spewing their Fundimentalist garbage, we will never know Peace Among Religions. We are supposed to be Leaders of the Free World. Let's begin acting like it.

I agree that Hate must stop, but it wont. Its the most human emotion there is. Man NEEDS hate. Animals are born with inate desires to hunt and kill but its not hate. The mongoose will kill the snake- out of nature, not hate.

Mankind is the only creature that can hate for the pure and simple reason of hate. We need it, we thrive on it. Never in the recorded history of man as a whole has there not been hate. The only way we will stop hating each other, is if we find something else to hate. Alien invasion or something similar.

Hate is part of what makes man human. We are an emotional species, and as long as there are people with differing views, there will ALWAYS be hate.

To answer your question, from a 'Lib's' point of view: I do not think it's in poor taste to build the mosque there because we are supposed to be better than the terrorists. We should make them (the terrorists) envy our freedom, lust after our acceptance, and covet our ability to forgive.

We are supposed to be the 'shining example.'

On another note, the mosque being built, in this particular location, will make it much tougher for the: "The western World wants to destroy Islam" argument to hold water.

Why is it in bad taste to build a mosque @ Ground Zero? Of the 2700+ MURDERED on 9/11, approximately 54 (based on US Muslim population of 2%) would have been Muslim. I'm a NY'er (born and raised) who lost 5 FRIENDS (RIP) on 9/11, and I have no problem with building a place where peace and love would be taught. Granted, if hatred and terror are taught in this a house of worship, we should not tolerate it in any way and the place of worship that teaches this hatred should be closed forever.

First off - Thank you for coming at me from an adult stand point. Most of the wings (left-wing liberals & right-wing conservatives) dont do that. They come out of the gate full of hate if you disagree with them.

We are better than the terrorists, it doesnt take much. Dont murder people in cold blood. The thing is, as with most of my liberal friends, i think there is an assumption that if we just show the world that we are good people and we accept "group" (in this case muslims) that everyone will just learn to get along. In my opinion, the reality is the opposite.

The radical muslims hate us for specifically the reasons that you are siting as ways to sway them. There is no negotiating with these radical savages, they dont care about you, or me, or anyone for that matter. Its an infidel vs non-infidel mentality. Your with them, or against them. Let me add, because people here tend to want everything spelled out- im talking about RADICAL MUSLIMS, not normal muslims who practice Islam.

Also - this isnt simply a matter of - im offended, dont build it. Its a matter of what the whole purpose of the mosque/community center is suppose to do. Build trust, tolerance, and understanding. That isnt going to happen. With the Iman out and out refusing to even discuss moving the location - he is not about promoting peace and tolerance, unless it is for him.

Every time a New Yorker walks past that mosque/community center they will be reminded of the pain, loss, and anger of 9/11. They will remeber for a long time the stubborness of the Iman and his complete lack of compassion to those that lost so much on that day. That wont build tolerance, it will build resentment and drive a bigger wedge between the two peoples than anyone can possibly believe.

Besides, i dont beleive for a second that that spot is the ONLY spot in NY that can bridge peace and tolerance. It does the opposite.

Bad taste doesn't get soldiers killed.

"Bad taste doesn't get soldiers killed."

Your right, Bad People get soldiers killed.

There is no Mosque at ground zero, there's a Mosque two and a half blocks away from ground zero. There's a strip club even closer than that. Aside from that, Islam did not attack the WTC, Al-Qaeda did. Saying they are one and the same uniformly is like saying that all American protestants are the same as members of Westboro Baptist Church.

Bobo, a mosque is not being built at "ground zero". Its location is not even within sight of the former Twin Towers. And, it's private property. In this country, people are pretty much allowed to do anything they want (barring local code violations) with their own property. Don't you have a job, or something to do?

There is no Mosque at ground zero, there's a Mosque two and a half blocks away from ground zero. There's a strip club even closer than that.

Well, as soon as strippers hijack 4 airplanes and slam them into buildings full of people, I'm sure people will have a problem with that too.

Cameron needs a hug.

Camoron, Do you have your little plastic airplanes and two tine WTC buildings? Maybe you can practice going bud;n-bud'n and flying those little planes into the buildings, while yelling allyakh-bar. It makes no sense to think that it will make any difference to the terrorists(or terrorist sympathizers) as to their feeling towards americans. There is a $1,000 bounty on our soldiers head right now, so what difference does it make what the preacher does? We may come to the day, when we realize, there are those that will have to be eliminated. There is no appeasing the muslims, and they seem only to respect force. Try reading a bible in Saudi Arabia and see what those dear, peaceful muslims do.

Dasvet, the problem does not lie in the fact that there is a bounty on the heads of our Soldiers. It is like the "mob mentality" theory. This could enflame an everyday Muslim (who would never kill an American in the name of anything) to become so enraged ... especially at a protest rally of their own.... to do strike out at anyone who looks American.

And by the way, prior to our Marines going into Kuwait (you know, during the build-up)... The bible was read in the field on Saudi Soil. Chaplains were present. Mostly non-denominational services were conducted. And Yes, the Bible was Read in Saudi Arabia.

Listen to yourself. You have allowed yourself to stoop the level of the Fundamentalist.

I don't believe Jesus would advocate either side taking a life. Rather, Jesus gave up His own life for everyone.

Rebecca, Jesus would not advocate taking a life, Mohammad is totally the opposite.

Mohammad is the "other" son of Abraham.

Dasvet - You are entirely WRONG....The Quran does not condone killing.

The Quran chapter 9 verse 5, "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." That sounds pretty much like the Quran condoning killing to me.

Just for completeness, there's an awful lot of killing going on in christian bible as well. And since the christian diety is doing a lot of it himself, that adds up to "condoning" it in my book.