Bllah, blah, blah....more cries of "Islamophobia" to follow.

Hey now, don't talk like that. You shouldn't feel guilty for being a Christian just because a few people who call themselves Christian are freaking idiots with a bone to pick with half the planet. The sad trend in the US today is to treat the entire population of BLANK (liberals, immigrants, Muslims, etc) as though they have all been involved with the crimes committed by a tiny, tiny minority who use the same descriptive term. Christians are behind this, stupid people (or people who need to grow up and stop crying every time they feel slighted) are (says the agnostic pagan-y person with no bias :) ).

Michael Jackson was Sorry he was Black,,,, looks as if your Sorry you are White.. The way I would put it is " You are a man that is white,, not a White Man"

I do not wish to be "politically correct" or anything else,, except fair,,, I did not have any slaves or know anyone that has had any,, therefore no apology shall be given,, I have not spoken or acted against Muslims, Jews or the likes, However that being said,, I wouldn't just jump right out there and step on my foot,, as I will not be pleasant.

This Great Nation of OURS was founded on Freedoms of many sorts, Religion, Speech, Guns, Etc. Many GREAT people have fought and Died for this country to continue our Freedoms live on,,,, to give in to ANY group to be "Politically Correct" is a slap in their faces,,, which I personally have NO tolerancefor. If you do not like it here because we are bigots, hateful, war lovers, etc... why do not you just go elsewhere where you can be happy and let us alone to live in the Greatest Country on the Planet!!!!!!!!

Rusty, first of all, autopsy results revealed that Michael Jackson had vitiligo, which he apparently had treated on the visible parts of his body by having his skin bleached, not because he was sorry he was black. I'm not sorry to be white, but there is a point to history being taught...IT PREVENTS US FROM MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES IN THE FUTURE THAT WE MADE IN THE PAST. Yes, slavery happened and it's now gone, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't teach our children about it. I have friends in Germany, who, while not even thought of at the time of the Holocaust, carry around with them the burden of knowing that the nationality they identify with was responsible for the extermination of millions of Jews. Their not proud of it, just like we shouldn't be proud of the fact that this great country we live in once permitted slavery. What embarrasses me is that I am associated with a group of people (which I suspect to be a very loud minority) who as of late have been spouting lots of hatred. The very same people who claim to hold the Constitution close to their heart think that it should only apply when it matches their values.

As for leaving this country, that's what's so great about it, I don't have to. When Bush was President, people would say that to me when I complained about his policies. Now the same people are complaining about Obama's policies. I haven't sunk to the very low level of telling them to take a hike and find a new country for opposing the elected leader of this great country. It's a free country where a wide array of opinions can be held and debated. However, there is NO room for intolerance. That's not me talking, that's the Constitution.

BKLYN,

Please read the resolution. It is asking for parity. It cites specific examples of bias and possible conflicts of interest in some of the book publishers. You can read it for yourself here:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/SBOE_resolution_9.2010.pdf

They don't even get into whether Islam is gender biased, so don't think this will be some attack on Islam in the Textbook. If I were writting the books, it would be warts and all, but I'm sure most don't like the taste of reality.

Let me give you an example. Islam is credited with the invention of many things many hundreds of years ago. But at that time, they were the center of trade routes. Many people from far off places brought ideas through that land. There is no evidence that they did not just pick up ideas from the traders. It would be easy to envision a guy from China with one intellectual puzzle piece, a guy from Africa with the a piece that fits it. Seperately, they cannot build on each other's ideas. But together you get better results.

However, once trade bypassed them (when Global shipping started a few hundred years ago), the new ideas and inventions dried up. The rest of the world was coming up with discoveries all the time at that point. They were able to be part of the transmission of ideas worldwide as oppossed to being on the isolated ends of the trade routes.

The logical (but not politically popular) conclusion is that without the ideas being brought INTO the Mideast, they were not able to invent them on their own.

That makes those "inventions" of Islamic culture more like assemblies of other culture's ideas.

You can't even say what I just did in a "Liberal" (once meaning openminded) college classroom. So understand that if everything negative about Islam has to be purged in Texas textbooks, but the same is not true for Christianity, then you have biased the books against Christians.

There are plenty of warts on Christianity, but somehow we have extended the mentality that only a white straight man cannot be discriminated against, to kid's history books.

GetReal,

It's still a witch hunt. What was the Board of Education's motivation behind looking into this in the first place? My guess is bigotry. Any ethnic/religious group could peruse textbooks in this country and gripe about their group being underrepresented. I am willing to bet that the families who side with the Board of Education are doing an excellent job of educating their children about Christianity at home. If we're talking about schools affiliated with a specific religious denomination, then fine, omit whatever you like, but there is no room for religion in public school education. If you don't like it, send your kids to private schools. Why don't we just omit every reference to religion from our textbooks? I don't really think that's the solution, but I'm just trying to make a point.

|The logical (but not politically popular) conclusion is that without the ideas being brought INTO the Mideast, they were not able to invent them on their own.

The problem is that you made all that stuff up out of whole cloth. The end of the muslim golden age (which spanned 500 years and much more than the middle-east) in the 1200's was due to Mongol invasions and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. The moral is to guard against fundamentalism in all religions (Mongols are less of a problem these days).

Well, it all depends on how it was written--word choice, sentence structure, etc. The Slave Trade included blacks as well as whites. The Slave Trade involved many commodities and nations/locales in both North America (US and Caribbean), Africa's "slave" now Gold Coast and Europe. To say it's all on white is true biased simplification. Black monarchs of the African kingdoms harvested their own people to be stuffed onto ships so they could secure $$$ and sugar, molasses and goodies from Europe in the big trade triangle. Whites weren't invading/terrorizing into these African areas to harvest and stuff people into ships--the Africans themselves wreaked the sentence onto their compatriots and enemies for materialistic gain.

No, you should feel guilty for being a Christian. That being said, I like your comment.

Gimmeabreakoradrink,

Sounds like you will be writing the textbooks of the future. Yes, tribal chiefs sold slaves to Europeans, but the fact remains that white people willingly purchased, used, abused, and sold slaves. Yes, there were white slaves, but they were an extreme minority and often had more freedoms than black slaves. It's not at all a biased simplification to say that whites used slaves. It's a well-established fact.

As we all know, the Texas School Board are out of their ever loving minds!! The publishers should tell the Texas School Board to STUFF IT! Why to normal students have to be unundated with this revisionist, political and anti-muslim bigotry! Their a political body, with little or no interest in the students of the state!

Why is religion, itself, being taught in a Public School System and what the hell is a religious leader doing in the selection of any texts for a Public School System. Religion is a personal, private pursuit guaranteed by the first amendment as is the fact of separation of church and state. If taxpayer monies are being used for these texts and they are being utilized within a Public establishment such as a school, then it must remain SECULAR information.

There is no place for pros and cons for or against any religion being taught in a public school. If people want their children taught about religion, SEND THEM TO SUNDAY SCHOOL AT YOUR CHURCH or enroll them in YOUR CHURCH SUPPORTED, PARENT PAID FOR SCHOOLS.

My parents wanted me raised Catholic so they went one step further than catechism classes - THEY PAID FOR ME TO GO TO PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS where I was taught religion for an hour each day and had at least an hour of homework and reports due IN RELIGION in addition to after school extra-curriculm preparation for sacraments. My parents didnt suck on the public tax base to raise me in their religion, they paid for it themselves by working a little more, getting a second job and making sure I was taught in the religion they wanted me raised within. I even had Protestant students in my high school because it was a top notch high school ... and they received religion classes as I did, but their parents made sure they understood the difference between catholicism and their religion THE WAY A RESPONSIBLE PARENT SHOULD.

Parents today apparently want the schools to teach more than the ABCs and123s ... they want teachers to teach their kids morality, responsibility and christianity because they apparently are too lazy to do it themselves.

If you send your child to a public school, expect a secular education and supplement it with bible studies and Sunday School or catechism classes ... dont expect my tax dollars (and yes, when you milk federal funds, you are stealing my money to do your bidding) to make seventh day adventists, baptists, methodists, mormons, pentacostals, anglicans or whatever out of YOUR progeny - do that on YOUR own dime.

Religion belongs in CHURCHES AND CHURCH FUNDED SCHOOLS, not taught on public monies. Next thing you know, you are gonna want me to buy your beer and your birth control, or pay for your lack thereof of your birthcontrol (already happening with welfare and Earned Income Credit which is merely rewarding people to have kids they cant afford to raise.). My parents raised me and raised me well, I did the same for my children - YOU DO THE SAME FOR YOURS and stop sucking the taxpayer well dry.

PS: Did you remember to include the same amount of coverage on Hindi, Budhhism, Zoroastrism (which is what was plagurized for judaism, christianity and islam and the bahai'ism faith), Sikh (which is an offshoot of judaism) and all those other religions and atheism (and the historical consequences thereof) that have shaped history over the past 5000 years?? Or is this merely a tug of war between Christianity and Islam

`

GetRealLiberalMedia,

I read the resolution and it doesn't tell me a darn thing. Let's go through it.

They say three times that Islamic practices, beliefs and holy writing are given more (sometimes twice as much) student lines of text than Christianity. That doesn't tell me anything. I want to know:

1. When finished with the lesson can a student tell me what the government dictates they should know about Christianity and Islam? How about showing us some of the tests on these subjects and comparing and contrasting. If the disparity is great than obviously something isn't working either in the classroom teaching or the textbook.

2. What about other religions? How do they fare in this book? What about the other Abrahamic religion, Judaism? How does it fare? What about Paganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.? How many lines are devoted to their practices, beliefs and holy writings? If there are less than can I make the argument that this book is pro-Christianity/pro-Islam and anti-paganism/Hinduism/Judaism/Buddhism/etc.?

Second, in the first full paragraph they talk a great deal about one specific example of Muslims being massacred by Christians in 1099. They then mention the slaughter of Christians by Muslims in 1244 and 1268. So, what they don't tell us? A heck of a lot. Does the book make any mention to an instance of Muslims slaughtering Christians? Or did they omit it all together? What about other Christian massacres of Muslims?

So, what do I want to know?

1. What are students taking away from this? Will students be able to tell me anything about the Crusades? Will that answer make it sound like the Muslims were good, peaceful people who were slaughtered ruthlessly by the Christians with no retaliation? How about some examples from students who think that based on reading this textbook? How about some tests so we can look at the questions and compare scores?

Look through the citations. In the third full paragraph of the first WHEREAS they talk about how Muslims brought untold wealth to thousands and a better life for millions. Then they follow it immediately with Christian zeal and how Christians killed people and destroyed civilizations. However, this isn't a compare and contrast of the two religions. Look at the citation. Those two quotes aren't in the same area of the book. Is the book completely void of lessons where students learn about the good Christianity has done in the world? Or is the overall view of Christians a negative one? Are there any lessons about the evils caused by Islam? Or is the overall view of Muslims a positive one. I have no idea.

Why? Because the resolution never comes out and actually says there isn’t one mention of the atrocities done in the name of Islam. The resolution also never comes right out and says that the text is nothing but disparaging to Christianity. It merely cherry picks details here and there. If there isn’t any negativity shown to Islam (and, in fact, it is all positive) and nothing positive shown about Christianity (and, in fact, it is all negative) than the school board would be bouncing on the balls of their feet to come out and gleefully proclaim it to the world. Look how hard they fought over a two page resolution! Instead, they only pick a few very specific instances where they see bias but fail to tell us the context.

One can find “bias” in anything if one is looking for it. I could do this with any book. Give me a copy of Harry Potter and I'll pull out something that makes the books look anti-Christian. Then, I'll pull out something else where the Potter books could be a Christian allegory. Heck, give me the Bible and I'll make it say whatever you want. Give me a copy of the Torah or the Qur'an and I'll do the same thing. This is the problem when you cherry pick. You miss the overall message and the overall tone.

How about going through the book and telling me how many times Muslims are cast in a positive manner versus the number of times Christians are shown in a positive manner. Then, do the same thing with the times Muslims and Christians are shown in negative lights.

Then, once you’ve wasted your time doing that, maybe you’ll release a copy of the textbook online and let us read it.

This Texas school board has already voted to remove many key figures from our history textbooks. I have no reason to believe this isn't another idiotic attempt.

gimmeabreak said "Whites weren't invading/terrorizing into these African areas to harvest and stuff people into ships--the Africans themselves wreaked the sentence onto their compatriots and enemies for materialistic gain."

Well last time I checked, recieving stolen property was a crime in the united states. So is the purchase of illegal arms and narcotics. So you are saying that all drug users should be set free for innocence because they aren't actually in Bolivia and Columbia trafficking cocaine? Or maybe that guy who bought the stolen car or motorcycle should be allowed to keep it and go free ...

such hypocrisy is sickening

What a load of distortions.

First - who said the "Christians" were "white"? There are plenty of bigots of all colors and religions. Sheesh.

Next - who says there is no room for intolerance? Our nation is filled with intolerance. We find it in churches, in schools, in government, and in the news every day.

You tell me what I can and cannot say because I might "offend" someone with my beliefs. That's intolerance.

Intolerance is telling someone they "have to accept" someones beliefs, thoughts, or words. Tolerance is saying "I might think you are a raving lunatic, but I defend your right to say, think or believe whatever the hell you want to say, think or believe".

Isn't that the core of free speech? Allowing racists, homophobes, bigots, the Klan or the Earth First loons to all parade around and do and say what they want? As long as they do not bring harm to another person or their property, it's still a free country.

Enough with this "you'd better tolerate me, but I'm not going to tolerate you, because....".

With the dawning of digital textbooks, the days of Texas dictating what'll be in the textbooks of all of our schools will soon be over. Then, if they want to teach witchcraft, or creationism (that's a bit redundant), or how to stay stupid the rest of your life, they'll be free to do so.

Texas can't secede soon enough to suit me.

Randy from Maine.

Please don't blame all Texans. There are lots of us who feel that we should have a balanced text book but the right-winged christians have the power now.

Red States are simply nuts.

Here we go again...anything that even mentions another relgion, (or the lack of one) is "anti-Christian". The bible thumpers just aren't happy unless they're engaged in these endless culture wars.

I'm also a Christian and am appalled by this as well. Too many "Christians' give Christ a bad name. Idology over facts. Kind of like southerners who say slavery had nothing to do with the civil war except every state that seceeded cited slavery as their reason.

People should read the Constitution in full, not the abbreviated version they read in the House the other day. But they should also read the Federalist papers and other stuff the founders wrote. To all those who disagree, I'm sorry but this country was founded on the seperation of church and state. That's why people came here, to escape religious persecution.

85% of this country claims to be Christian. How can Christians be somehow persecuted here when they are by far the majority?

@ Brklyn while the Germans my bear a lot of the guilt to murdering millions of Jews ...Just think of all the many centuries of kristians who sowed the seeds of hatreds towards them....not realizing that one day their harvest would result in the murder of six Million...which reminds me of the parable of the sower..... their's look's like centuries of thorns and briars...

Ryan in Texas is right Islam only had a few things of their own, higher education, first university in the world, Algebra, Medicine, Architecture, Astronomy. Many different people brought other foreign concepts, for instants, the white people from southern England brought the startling concept of "0". So all down thru history the white people are credited with contributing "nothing" to world civilization. But then, what do you expect, from a people that live the southern part of their country

First and foremost, I have nothing against the Islamic Faith; its only the actions of fundamental extremists that like blowing things up, that I question. However, why is it becoming "Politically Correct" to be sympathetic to Muslim communities and their faith; when anyone mentioning "God" or "Jesus Christ" is the next best thing to a terrorist? Our Constitution was founded on the principle of "Separation of Church and State". Alternately, our founding forefathers never expected the government to carry that separation to the extreme we see today. What one must consider is the time frame the Constitution was written. The Churches of England, where most of our founding forefathers came from, greatly influenced the governing body and laws of that country. Our forefathers didn't want that extreme bias and influence felt in our new fledgling government in 1776. Thus, "Separation of Church and State." What one must consider is America was also founded on the principle of freely worshiping God, the"God, Allah, Jehovah, Great Spirit, Yehwah, Heavenly Father, Buddy's, etc." of your choice, without government interference and perscecution. God was worshipped in schools, churches, prayers were offered in Congress and at every public function of any importance. What we have now is a Atheist Minority Group of Americans forcing the extreme "Separation of Church and State" issue to the point, where the majority of faith believing Americans (Regardless of what your faith is, from Buddhist to Catholic) are repressed and legally restricted from any form of public religious recognition. What's wrong with this picture?

That brings us back to our current issue of Islam. Islam is a faith like any other that deserves recognition and tolerance in this country. My complaint is, why allow such tolerance for one belief; while restricting all others?

This is revelatory of the culture that produced George Bush - i.e. the valuation of word over reality - as in the WMD claims, the names Patriot Act, Iraqi freedom, etc.

This group is appointed and Perry gets his way one more time. My wife is a history teacher and she thinks this is a bunch of BS. I am white and have lived in Texas for over 60 years. I am a proud American, and I try to stay out of politics, but this reaks of poliitcs.

Brianb-999431

W. Goin - The NEA has been trying to dumb down the American student for years!

It seems they've done a great job with you brian. Another one of your beautifully thought out posts. Not! But once again I must give you credit----you've never let facts stand in your way. However, today you have a brother on here: ryan in tx

Ryan in Texas

Brenda - Can you let us secede? Say the word and it shall be done. Do you think that scares us in Texas? We were already a nation once. We are the 15th largest economy in the world.

You have no idea how many of our boys died fighting to protect the US in wars. We also gave up much of our oil for pennies on the dollar in WW2. We continue to fund the other states social programs since we get back less than we send to Washington.

Ryan you are sadly misinformed. You're state takes in more federal dollars per dollar sent to DC than just about any other state. You're state is having just as much, if not more, financial problems than the states you've been bashing. You are a fine example of what Texans are most proud of: ignorance, intolerance and down right stupidity. I think most of the people in America would have no problem giving TX back to Mexico. I think we'd even be willing to throw in some cash.

BTW----every other state in this country has also had men and women serve, fight, and die for America. But continue to be like brian and please, don't let facts stand in your way.

Answer: We don't. We just stay here because of our families. Texas should have stayed independent. It would have been better for Texas and the U.S. both.

D...

For starters, Texas is where the jobs are !!!

I still have hope we'll give Texas, Arizona and Utah back to Mexico We could tell them we're sorry about that little mix-up in 1846 and ask them if we can keep New Mexico, Nevada and California. If they hang tough I'd throw in Nevada to sweeten the deal.

@Tony- Seem to remember reading something the other day talking about how the Governors race in Texas had become a horse race because the recession finally hitting Texas. I'm sure Perry is eating his words right at this moment.

Hey Skip, we can turn over the US authority in Oklahoma back to the myriad of Indian tribes already dwelling within the state and correct the half-century of genocide committed against them. That sound fair to you, eh?

You ever hear the one about the tea-sipper that moved north of the Red River? It improved the IQ in both states.

D1968: Probably because we have a low unemployment rate compared to the national average; a lower cost of living despite more amenities; the world's leading cancer research center, thriving biotech, aerospace, defense and energy industries; the nation's largest output of wind energy; and a guaranteed entry into any state-funded university for high school students who graduate in the top 10% of their class.

That's just scraping the surface. I appreciate that the popular sentiment of Texas is as some lonely, dust-swept backwards desert wasteland, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

Because YOU ARE NOT HERE,, Can you understand it put that way?????????

I'm actually on the verge of probably moving to Houston Texas... because of job opportunities, and lower cost of living, higher quality of life as compared to NYC...

But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit nervous that I'll end up surrounded by Glen Beck zombies... The few people I've spoken to from Texas are actually very nice... and I'm sure many of the stereotypes are undeserved, just as many of the ones for New Yorkers are... but, truth is, I really don't know what they will be like as a whole...

Also I'm white, and my wife is West-Indian... I'm wondering if some racial prejudices will also present themselves... Obviously she's not Mexican, or Muslim, but her skin is light brown.... so... I guess I'm just hoping to be pleasantly surprised by some good ol' fashioned Texas hospitality...

V - Good luck with the hospitality thing. The ignorance of Texans who keep voting for this Board of Education is unbelievable!

Yeah.. but thats what? Seven people...?

V...: Houston's an extremely diverse city - our mayor, Anise Parker, is the country's only openly gay leader of a major metropolis.

Transplant - yes Perry is eating his words. He's suddenly realized he needs $830 million in Federal education funding. So much for seceding and turning down stimulus funding.

V,

I think you will find for the most part that Texas are very gracious and hospitable. Most of the stereotypes and characterizations are undeserved. I have lived in Texas since 1980 and would not want to live anywhere else. Houston is a great place. The traffic is bad, but the people are great.

Welcome to Texas

There probably isn't a good reason. I was born here, but because I was unable to overcome the gender bias and political leaning of Texas politics and other sundry issues and circumstances, I was not able to pull myself away from here. I do not understand this debate other than it is about religious and ultra-conservative political views but as I look back over my education in this state with regard to the educational literature, especially with regard to history and social studies curriculum, I learned they were full of lies and myths and were only representative of someone's agenda to bend the minds of the children to reflect their self-serving policies. If I knew then what I know now, I would have certainly not felt guilty about my boredom and sense that what was being taught was fictitious and useless. I would like to spare my grandchildren from the same educational circumstance but alas, their parents are responsible for what they learn. I can only get a glimpse of what lies are being taught. Unfortunately, this is not just a Texas good-ole-boys bias; it's a global good-ole-boys assault.

Thanks for those replies GetRealLiberalMedia and Exodite Dragon...

Here's a hypothetical question for you guys (or anyone else from Texas)....

If a family moved onto your Texas block/cul-du-sac/neighborhood, or whatever... and you found out that they were.....

an interracial couple....
who reject ALL political parties as lying snakes....
who were born catholics, but now reject ALL organized religions...
But....
they are really nice, intelligent, friendly people...

Be honest.... Would you feel differently, or welcome them any less?

Why would anyone want to live in Texas? No personal income tax. Tex Mex food. Barbecue. That's about it.

no clue ... a very large state dedicated to anything unamerican they can think of while maintaining as low an educational standard as possibly allowed in the USA while importing intelligence for Big Business like Lockheed Martin (my daughter worked there 2 1/2 yrs in Fort Worth on the F35 Lightning Jet - she is a rocket engineer) and NASA in small doses and in short enough timeframes as NOT to spoil the goal of public sponsored uneducation and disinformation.

Drag,

You probably won't see this since it has been so long but I felt compelled to drop you a line.

I doubt the Osage, Cherokees, Chickasaws, Arapahoes, Cheyenne, Apache, Pawnee, Pontotocs, Shawnees, Pottowatomies, Creeks, Seminoles or any of the other tribes in Oklahoma would want to take you up on your suggestion.

They are all "Sovereign Nations" with their own tribal governements, car tags, tax structures, smoke shops and casinos.

MOST of them are doing very well indeed and provide universal health care for tribal members (that reminds me I need to go get my Indian Card, I'm part Cherokee), educational grants, college scholarships and some of the richer tribes even provide annuities to tribal members. It's GOOD to be Native American in Oklahoma. We have dozens of Natives Americans where I work. They are wonderful people and doing very well for themselves.

I was talking to a lady from the Southern Cheyenne on Saturday and she laughed and said "Oh, I hate indians!" I said "What?" She laughed and said, "Not really, just joking." Native American humor, you gotta love it.

I am not going to dignify your ignorant question with an answer about why people live here in Texas.

I am going to address the textbook problem that you, who live in other states, aren't talking about. Texas buys more textbooks than most any other state. The textbook publishers are naturally biased towards such a good customer.

What do you think the book publishers are going to do to save money when they start printing textbooks?

Yup, didn't think you had thought of that. You will get books that are very, very similiar to the books Texas gets.

V...,

If that couple moved into our DFW neighborhood, we'd welcome them (probably with homemade cupcakes). I think that the welcome received by the couple would depend a lot on the neighborhood they moved into. The suburbs of larger cities like DFW, Houston, and (especially) Austin are generally more cosmopolitan in outlook than the smaller towns. That being said, you can find intolerance just about anywhere, and not just in Texas (or the United States for that matter).

I haven't been treated badly here, even though I am of a racial minority (Asian), non-religious, and in a mixed-race relationship. As with anything else, though, your mileage may vary.

When you are losing an arguement, call names.

Absolutely correct, Ed !!!

To my knowledge, there are no groups who have at one point wielded significant power who didn't abuse that power; you have Catholicism and Protestantism in Europe, Islam in the Middle East, Atheists in Soviet Russia, China and Cambodia, and whatever the hell North Korea is with their official belief Kim Jong Il's father is still the head of state. My point is people will be evil if given the chance. To deny that point damages everyone, to embrace the fact there will always be good and evil people is important. You have Muslims like King Abdullah II of Jordan who is a spectacular human being who stands against Iran and every terrorist organization you can think of.

Avoiding whether that example is inspite of his religion or whatever is not the point. The point is we should be teaching the evils everyone has committed to avoid them happening again. Is the US perfect? No, but we have made enormous strides and that should be the focus people can better themselves if they choose to.

It looks like there is only one way to prevent that coming inquisition: Vote! Confound the "Democrats are Doomed" media mindset.

Json, Christianity is based on faith. You, plainly, do not have faith. A plant and you are never going to pass on into heaven.

That's funny, Json, because back in my AP humanities class in high school here in Texas, state law prohibited us from discussing Christianity in any sense, even an objective one. We were allowed to talk about Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism and so on but Christianity (even for comparative purposes!) was completely off-limits.

You really don't have a damn clue about what it's actually like here, do you?

Ed, you're an idiot. See you in heaven bro!

Ed, if all the people in "heaven" are egotistical narrow-minded bigots, then I will be thrilled to be elsewhere. In fact, "elsewhere", could be the real heaven.

Exodite Dragon, you might find the reason they banned any discussion of any of the many Christian religions in school was the same reason they banned several other topics such as evolution. Discussion provokes people to think and thinking for yourself is clearly an anti-state activity in Texas. It was also why English was banned as a vehicle of communication in English schools or speaking any NaDeene languages in the US in school - it threatened state power by reminding the captives that they were actually individual people with individual freedoms and rights above and beyond the thought police.

Robo - "English was banned as a vehicle of communication in English schools or speaking any NaDeene languages in the US in school" Typo[s]? English was banned in English schools? What is a NaDeene language?

@James Essayist: English was banned by the French when they ruled the place - at different times, latin and French - guess they weren't technically English schools but schools in England. Yes, typo sorry: Na-Dene - Amerindian languages if you prefer (and probably is more accurate anyway)

Ah. Thanks; I knew those who got to school in England after 1066 were taught in French (and Latin & Greek) and probably spoke French to begin with. (Most Saxons were peasants and of the middling sort, so they didn't get much school if any.) Didn't know you meant there, not here. Googling Na-Dene brings up hits for Alaskan/west Canada native languages; without the hyphen you get sits for babies' names.

make that "... sites for babies' names."

That's funny, Json, because back in my AP humanities class in high school here in Texas, state law prohibited us from discussing Christianity in any sense, even an objective one.

Bull@!$%#. I graduated high school a year ago, took at least two humanities classes (there's no AP humanities by the way), and religion of all sorts was completely welcome in discussion. In fact, our teacher would routinely use bibilical allegories as a teaching tool. There is no Texas state law preventing the discussion of Christianity.

Acoe,

It's because there is a First Amendment. That mandates it. Go read the Federalist papers. This country was founded on seperation of church and state. That's why people came here, to escape religious persecution.

Folks, teaching comparative religions is different than teaching one religion. No one in Texas was ever not allowed to mention Christianity in the proper context of comparing religions. It's when people try to shove their dogma down others throats they hit a roadblock with the Bill of Rights. fyi - I'm a Christian.

Way to post, Mr Kneejerk!

Can you cite specific examples where Texas textbooks are racist? Please do not make general statements, please cite the book name, page and paragraph.

Incidentally, the Texas Board did so with the allegations that they made of Islamic Bias. You can read all about it here:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/SBOE_resolution_9.2010.pdf

This is the actual resolution that passed.

I think the folks lambasting Texas need to get their heads out of their butts. They follow some infantile and puerile stereotyping without knowing facts or a real understanding of the actual textbooks. I realize that Islam is the religion de jour amongst liberals today, anything that is anti-christian is held up as a beacon of open-mindedness. They forget or choose to ignore the egregious treatment of women, ditto civil rights inherent in Islam. Then these same right-minded and open minded folk natter away about slavery and, once again, either choose to ignore or forget that slavery is alive and well in predominantly Islamic countries.

mygirl apparently you haven't actually read the Bible. There are many instances in the new testament where women are not allowed certain positions in the church or society, as well as historically women have been oppressed by christians. You modern "christians" aren't even practicing true Bible based christianity, then turn around and try to say that Islam is sexist. Get outta here with that.

Slavery exists in the U.S. and Europe as well, and there are American "Christian" ministers who still preach that husbands have the right to rape or beat up their wives because the Old Testament doesn't forbid it nor give these as a reason for divorce.

There racist because they dismiss slavery as the major cause of the civil war even though every state that seceeded cited slavery as the reason in their declarations of secession.

I'm sure Davey Crocket, at the Alamo, didn't cry out "Alah Akbah!" Fact: Sam Houston, Father of Texas, died, under house arrest, locked up by the Confederate state of Texas, for being pro-union. He died a POW by the very state be help create. That's Texas for you.

You type pretty good for not being able to see,,, due to the fact your head is up your As* so far you can not even see light,,,, The way it is going today, right now the light at the end of the tunnel that Obama is seeing is a train comming,,,, I guess that is kinda the end,,, Hummmmmm

Harbinger...

What an informed, educated member of the "thinking community" you are...very impressive. Also as close-minded as you accuse all Republicans ( and 'Teabaggers' because they're "one and the same" ) of being. How very quaint.

But you are the open-minded among us ??? Sure doesn't look that way with what you've written.

One can take a look at all the strongest voting blocks among the members of your "thinking community"...and in truth, not be very impressed. Since you group "all" Republicans together, I assume you group "all" Democrats (thinkers!!!) together also. And that would be fair. Did you read the voting pattern reports that were published after the 2008 elections ??? Sorry...but it can be tough to be impressed by some of the president's strongest voting blocks of all...very tough to be impressed.

But I ask the same question I always ask of people who spend half their time denigrating a television news channel...especially a channel that according to writings like yours, has the power to hypnotize tens of millions of Americans to do it's evil bidding...oooo, the ever-so-horrid "Fox News".

I always ask...but never get a reply. Besides daily newspapers...which every thinking human being in this country should be reading, but sadly doesn't...what television news sources would you, as a top member of your "thinking community", suggest that people check out, as an alternative to receiving those hypnotic signals from the dreaded Fox News ???

Should it be the nightly news with dour Katie Couric (if one can stay awake for 30 minutes) ??? Or is it the near-comatose Larry King ??? Or would we all become better "thinkers" by watching the teary-eyed Chris Matthews, along with his 739 other viewers ??? Perhaps it's Keith Olbermann...certainly no political bias coming from that guy...is he the one ???

And please don't tell me that people should be "researching" what is taking place in this nation on their own. But yes....enlighten "close-minded", non "fact-based" reasoning, non-"thinking" folks like myself as to where we nitwits might learn more clearly and perhaps someday even be considered for entrance into the gilded gates of the "thinking community". Or maybe, at least, reside in huts somewhere near those gilded gates.

Please...enlighten those in the darkness.

Thanks much !!!

Your article validates my theory that the philosophical difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats believe co-operation is the answer and Republicans believe competition is the answer.

A democratic blog, surely it will be unbiased. It makes many claims, but does not use any evidence to back them up. It makes use of numerous logical fallacies, such as Hasty Generalizations(Typical/average republican), Ad Hominem(calling FOX names), and more. I'd think the "Thinking Community" would be able to express it's views through evidence, rather than personal attacks, if it wants to be taken seriously.

I'd comment on the issue it is trying to debate, but there is none. It is trying to discredit all, previous and future, claims made by republicans, which is impossible.

Anyways, this is completely off topic for this thread. This education board seems like it wants the textbooks to cover the negative aspects of Islam(Terrorists, radical groups) like it covers the negative aspects of Christianity(Inquisition, radical groups). Positive aspects will still be there. I don't see how you can make a case against reporting the whole story.

The fundamental difference between Republicans and the thinking community is they have different goals. One side, for example, may want to reach an agreement on something that will make the world a better place. The other side just wants to win.

So which one is which? Are the Democrats the ones that just want to win? The Republicans? or BOTH?

Average Republicans and Teabaggers (they are one in the same) are not interested in forming cogent arguments or in fact-based reasoning. Truth seekers they are not. Republicans don't want actual debate, they simply want to win the argument. They want to be the last one standing in a shouting match.

Which is obviously different from what you are doing right? Calling people names, not open to discussion, and only want to be the last one standing in a shouting match. The same things that you describe as being Republicans can also describe the Democrats.

Republicans want to give tax breaks to the richest 1% and pay for it by increasing the deficit.

No the Republicans want to give tax breaks to everyone, not just the richest 1%. The Democrats want to take money from the "wealthy" and give it to the poor. I have no problems with the Democrats wanting to help out the poor but let them do it with their own money, not someone else's.

Tony 268729's attempt to be sarcastic falls flat. Obama tried desparately to have dialogue with Republicans only to be met with their "Screw You, we take no prisoners" approach. The current Republican campaign pledge on "small government" would eliminate every componant of government save entitlements if it were seriously asserted. Of course it's not seriously asserted, it's just red meat for the yahoos. Continued tax reductions for those making over $250,000/year on the basis that it will create jobs is another joke. Those on the lower end drive demand for most goods and service. Personal consumption on the upper end just drives up the price of second homes. Republican efforts to deprive 40 million people of health coverage is immoral. It's also stupid because if anything the health care law will reduce the deficit. Obama was naive to try to have dialogue with the right wing crowd. But on one count, though, Tony268729 is more correct that Harbinger. Haringer assumes that they are not part of the "thinking community". But they are. The are thinking how they can cynically use the yahoos for their own personal gain. Their problem is not lack of intelligence or lack of information. Often it is simply their lack of character and abundence of malice.

Harbinger: In terms of ignorance your rant is rather typical of what I have come to expect from the liberal left. Sadly, I don't think you are capable of seeing yourself and your thought processes in the accusations that your post accuses republicans of.

All of the sneaky little taxes aren't in yet as it relates to the "healthcare bill". Those folks who embrace it today will be singing another song once all the facts are in

Thanks to all of you who posted for making my points wonderfully!

You are too kind.

Harbinger--how could you say that about the Republicans? I just ran a search on the "Republican Pledge to America." Look at all the hits I got!

Wall Street: 0
Bank: 0
Finance: 0
Mortgage crisis: 0
Derivative: 0
Subprime: 0
Lobbying: 0
Lobbyist: 0
K Street: 0
Campaign finance: 0
Campaign contribution: 0
Campaign donation: 0
Disclosure: 0
Climate change: 0
Environment: 1 ("political environment")
Alternative energy: 0
Renewable: 0
Green: 0
Transportation: 0
Infrastructure: 0
Poverty: 0
Food: 0
Food safety: 0
Housing: 0
Internet: 0
Education: 0
College: 0
Reading: 0
Science: 0
Research: 0
Technology: 0
Term Limits: 0
Bush administration: 0

Oh, News Flash, that Tea Party Republican candidate O'Donnell, states evolution is a myth--I'm not overjoyed at the implosion of the Republican party because the Demos need something to keep them straight, but this November there is no other choice people--you must vote Democratic to keep the crazies out--yes things can get worse.

Gordon, I'm guessing you've never met a Muslim. People confuse extreme foreign governments, like Iran and African countries that promote female circumcision, with Islam. They are not one in the same. Sure, they practice the same religion, but they do not interpret the Quran in the same way. Heck, have you read the Bible lately? I don't know any God-fearing Christian that thinks a woman who is raped should marry her rapist, yet the Bible says so.

Gordon, you need to go back and read the original article on this issue. Actually, the portions quoted in the article and the link seemed pretty even-handed to me. But, as I said the other day, I havn't read the textbooks and we probably shouldn't be commenting if we havn't seen the actual text.

No. That's wrong. Forgive the rapist, yes. Marry the rapist, what passage did you manipulate to come up with that "fractured fact"?

And don't forget not ALL pedophiles are Catholic Priests or even Christian! Islamic 'Holy' Teachings give detailed instructions on how to practice pedophilia!

Historical fact: European countries have been involved in hideous interrogation techniques, imperialistic massacres of other nations' civilians, attempts at inter-denominational genocide, attacking Jews left and right just because it's easy, and, if we can trust Froissart's Chronicles, actually started the trend of attacking cities and subjecting innocent people to rape, pillage, torture, and murder to destroy the morale of the other army --- all in the name of the Christian God.

Christianity has had a nasty history, despite of the teachings of its main religious figure. Of course, all this stuff started once governments got hold of the Church and it ceased being a personal path to God. Islam has a similar history, and is no less guilty or innocent than Christianity when we question why so many people believe religion is worth killing for. THIS is history. If it's anti-Christian to recognize that, and still focus on what Christianity has become today in spite of all that dogmatic crap and political abuse, then so be it. But history has no biases, provided it's not being written by somebody with a chosen trauma. Personally, I think we should focus on what Jesus said rather than what the followers have done when discussing theology, but that's just me.

Maybe we should just let the Buddhists write our history texts . . .

You're right, I misinterpreted Deuteronomy 22:28-29. My apologies. However, Deuteronomy 22: 23-24 does state that, "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, and YE SHALL STONE THEM WITH STONES THAT THEY DIE" That's pretty violent, and again, would never fly in today's society, but it's in the Bible!

Skip,

You can read the actual text that they are referring to here:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/SBOE_resolution_9.2010.pdf

It is the resolution that passed and it cites the specific examples.

Ok I am all for equality. COMPLETE equality. Can someone tell me just which Christian faith condones the stoning of a woman because SOMEONE THINKS she may have been unfaithful to her husband? Not the lutheran or the Presbryterian, I don't think it is Catholic or Baptist, amy be the Penocostal? Ok let that one slide. How about the condoning of stone ing a 16 year old girl to death because she doesn't want to marry a man old enough to be her grandfather? I know wait wait wait a minute, let me make it real easy, how about naming the Christian faith that cuts off the hand of a hungry child who stole a loaf in bread left out in the open? So Bklyn you found a passage in Deut. Congratulations! I am glad that you also said that both the man and the woman be stoned. In Islam, it is only the woman who is punished. I am sure glad that the New Testament is a lot easier on all of us Jezebels. Guess we all get a chance at redemption. Christians and Jews are not perfect, but neither do we condone or support brutality against our own brethern.

Christians and Jews are not perfect, but neither do we condone or support brutality against our own brethern.

They would if modern liberal laws had not put held them in check. Not all of Islam follows these strict punishments only the most right winged conservative branches.

please do show where in the constitution the official US Govt religion is stated to be Christianity...and don't quote that crap about how our laws are based on the Christian faith. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that EVERY religion states its wrong to murder, steal, destroy property, cheat etc...

uh, you must have been educated in Texas. People that practice Islam are 'Muslims' not 'Islams'. This just shows how some people like to make bold statements about something that they have no exposure, familiarity or knowledge. Its sad that many radical people are giving Christianity such a tarnished impression because they promote hate and intolerance in the name of Christianity. Christianity is based on love and caring for those of lesser fortune.

That's what it used to stand for until the conservative right got ahold of it and made it synonymous with hatered, bigotry, and blind ignorance.

Paying attention to what, Marlis?

How to give the shaft to our own students?

Indiana,,,, the Idiot Center of the USA,,, I would vote for you as their leader or such,,,,,

Rusty H:

I can't stand it any longer, I just need to come out and say it. You're an idiot!

Your grammatical skills are atrocious. You can't seem to form a single, coherent thought as you attempt to label those you do not agree with as "idiots." And, for the record, commas do not replace periods. What it seems you are trying to accomplish with your overuse of the comma, is what's known as an ellipsis. An ellipsis is indicated by three consecutive periods (...), not commas.

I know it's a lot to ask, but could you please stop abusing the English language. I don't care what your political orientation happens to be, but whichever group you side yourself with automatically looks less intelligent for how you present your written self.

In closing, I would like to say that if I ever had the misfortune of proofreading any paper or story you might have written, I would likely gouge my eyes out with rusty forks, let my blood pool and stain your paper so as to keep others safe from accidentally coming across it later, then blindly stumble to where you were sitting and proceed to punch you until I was sure that you could not harm the English language any more.

Or, perhaps, something worse...

Tee-hee...

Thank you workhorse!

ddaryl,

If you categorize the conquest of Muslim lands by Crusaders as "violent attackers" or "invaders" (which they were) yet you categorize the conquest of Christian lands by Muslims as "migrations" by "empire builders" you are showing bias. It would be far better if they simply showed both situations for what they actually were. They were violent conquests.

This is what the Texas Board of Ed is asking for. Parity.

You can read the actual text that they are referring to here:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/SBOE_resolution_9.2010.pdf

It is the resolution that passed and it cites the specific examples.

Which Christian values are the US based on?

Most if not all of the Law's of the land are directly from or based on the Biblical principals.

Thank God for the Constitution! If the founding fathers had adopted your way of thinking, not only would Muslims be doomed, but so would the Jews, the Buddhists, and the Hindu.

No they aren't. Most of the Ten Commandments aren't even US laws.

Whimsay,

Uh, no actually, our system of government is in large part based on the Iroquois League which was a confederation of Native American tribes in 18th century America. References to "God" in the constitution are done in a very general and vague fashion so as to be inclusive of all the different faces of the divine as worshiped by the major religions of the time. The Iroquois League were Native Americans, their religion was largely animist and did not recognize Yahweh, Jehova, Jesus, Buddha, or Mohamed.

Read a book.

Who in their right minds would want to follow your values?!!!

You sound like a Nazi talking about Jews in 1938. But, thankfully, its clear that you're an idiot.

Whimsay - I lived in Britain for almost 50 years, my family are still there - and guess what? That's right there has been no moslem takeover whatsoever. What I did learn there though was how to spell moslem - your christian values helped you get it wrong both times you tried, so I'm guessing you went to school in Texas.

As regards a mosque on every corner, I lived in a city that was very culturally diverse including a large pakistani community, and yet again you're wrong - there were hardly any mosques at all. Now I live in Texas and am literally frightened by the number of christian churches on every street corner - they do more than enough to threaten my freedoms. If you want an example just look at the very issue we are discussing - the re-writing of history by the christian right!

My wife went to the fabric store to check on these "muslin values" -- they're about $3 - $5 a yard, depending of if they're bleached or not.

Whimsay, have you actually ever read the Qu'ran? Most of the "Muslim values" you are demonizing are the same as the "Christian values" you appear to extol. If you've read the Qu'ran (we were required to do so in college back in 1999, along with reading the Bible and other holy books) you'd now that it is very similar to the Bible. And this is coming from a Christian who is married to a *gasp* Muslim. A Muslim who respects my beliefs, shares many of them, and has no problem speaking out against the fundamentalists who are making his religion look terrible.

Whimsy, the constitution was not founded on Christian values. Read the Federalist Papers, which are the arguments for the constitution in the words of several of the founding fathers themselves. There is not a single use of the Bible in the whole thing, yet many allusions to classical Greek, Roman, and contemporary European history. The founding fathers were classically educated for the most part and the use of the few references to God and was due to them being privately Christian and men of thier time. Why do you think they explicitly prohibited the establishment of religion? Much of the religion in politics that people think of today, has it's origins in the anti-communism of the fifties, combined with expansion of rural churches as people moved to the suburbs also in the fifties. It has nothing to do with the principles of this country was founded on. The founding fathers must be rolling over in thier graves with all the people claiming America for thier religion. The current marriage of conservatism and religious principle is a relatively new phenomena

oh no...the Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming!! What EVER will we DO????

Do grow up Whimsay.

Whimsey,

No their not, they're based on English law which in turn goes back to the Code of Hammarabi.

If people would read the resolution they would see that it is very well researched and cited. But instead they read the news article and become instant experts.

Well said, both of you. The Texas BOE is not asking for Christianity to be whitewashed and Islam to be demonized. Anyone who actually reads the resolution (which I have) would realize that. The resolution simply states that Christianity is routinely treated as aggressive, bigoted, and/or evil, while Islam is touted as a peaceful religion which engaged in "migrations" instead of "conquests."

Christians (and so-called Christians) have done horrible things over the last two millennia. Incidentally, many of those things were done because: 1. the average person could not read or write, and therefore had to go by what they were told about Christianity, 2. these same people who could not read or write had zero political power and therefore could do nothing but follow instructions, and 3. the people who could read, write, and hold political power were firmly entrenched in a political system which gave them power so long as they followed the Pope and their king (id est feudalism.)

Muslims did many, many bad things as well, even up to modern times. Not every Christian agreed with the Crusades, and not every Muslim agreed with 9/11. Neither group should be treated with disdain because of the actions of their followers.

What if an insane redhead were to kill hundreds of people and claim that it was because of what the redhead deity said to do? Would all redheads be guilty by association? No. (I apologize to any redheads who might be offended by this example.)

EXACTLY!

I had a friend my senior year of highschool who turned to me one time and said, "but Jews don't believe in god." WHAT? Even in an exceedingly well educated, middle class community she had learned NOTHING of other world religions in her 12 years of education.

We need to wake up. The United States is a fabulous country, but in order to regain our position in the world and maintain it, we need to learn of our past transgretions and accept them and move PAST them. Not wallow in them. Our understanding and compassion for the rest of the world populations is severely lacking.

That's not to say I agree with a lot of things that have happened. My family did not own slaves; they came to the us after slavery. Paying reparations at this point was dumb. The way to move past history is not to punish those currently living, but to work to repair connections between those who were wronged and those who did the wronging.

The Daily Show had a FANTASTIC John Oliver segment on Racism in South Africa. I suggest everyone goes and watches it.

Very nicely put. Thanks for contributing in such a positive way.

Is Bill Ayres your TWIN??

American currency has "In God We Trust" written on it, while Kuwaiti currency has "We Seek God's Assistance" written on it (in English). It's all the same.

EECT: Wrong and stupid and disparaging...and not what the textbook panel was concerned about but, hey, I finally understand that willful stupidity is just that and nothing factual or informative can assail a person who chooses not to think.

You may be correct in believing that the US is agnostic, but continue to believe that the Muslims do not have an agenda and you and your children will soon be praying several times a day at your local mosque.

More moronic rantings from an idiot

Whimsay,

I tried believing that Muslims will force me and my future children to convert to Islam, but all I'm coming up with are images of a leprechaun riding a unicorn. :(

@Evil Miss Alice: All I got out of your post was a desire to play Robot Unicorn Attack.

That's a GAME? Where can I get it?! TELL ME!!!!

Whimsey,

Your paranoia is showing...

The Tea party would have us believe our founding fathers were just as dumb as they are; wrong. Ben Franklin was the Einstein or Bill Gates of his day. Jefferson was a legal scholar much like President Obama. They were intelligent men; masonic lodge members and strict believeres in Seperation of church and State! Masons do NOT bow to one god or another nor to saints etc. Liberty not Freedom was their rally cry. "Give me liberty or give me death' said Patrick Henry. Now, the Texas' skul bored' nuts want to removed even Thomas Jefferson fromt history books. Ya'll come back, here!

Talking to the tea party is like trying to tell a whiney child there is NO monster under the bed or in the closet.

Please read the resolution.

What a dufus. What sane person could possibly compare Christians to the Nazis.

GetReal... I did read the resolution. You are spot on. Read my second comment, #190.

IF Nazi's didn't like a book; they buried it. Oh, some tried that ,here, just recently. Nazi's didn't re-write their history as they did re-build it. Aryan's were a Myth; Iran, persia, changed it's name to Iran to show the Nazi's THEY were the real Ayans. The Symbol, Swastika, was a Hindu good luck glyph, also used in other parts of the world including some native American Tribes.

That is what the board if asking for. Parity. Read the resolution and I believe that you will see what I mean.

Getreal: You're fighting an uphill battle against people who don't want the facts, all they want to do is cast aspersions and blather away about how stupid, racist, backwards, ignorant etc. the other side is. They want to feel superior because reason and fact-based investigation frighten them and cause them discomfort. Most are comfortable in their ignorance and don't want to be disturbed or have their spoon-fed ideologies questioned because then their entire world view would be shaken.

Tell you what Grad...until the "peaceful" Muslims decide to hold the rest accountable for their actions, everyone else will simply assume your religion is exactly as it is portrayed. It is a vile, hate filled, violent religion that teaches it's followers to murder those who don't follow the same version of religion, and that includes other Muslims.

I just love how you guys show how peaceful you are...by resorting to violence whenever you think you've been insulted in some way.

Real peaceful.

"There are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world. Obviously there is something there that is attracting so many, especially within the USA."

Please study the history of the spread of Islam. First, west across north Africa. Then east across south Asia. And then their attempt to impose it on Europe.

Forced submission is what has led to the increase in Islamic membership. You either join or be beheaded. Not much attraction there, only survivor skills...

Grad for Hire: Thanks for your intelligent comment. If we really want our children to be educated global citizens, able to communicate with peoples of many cultures, we can help them by letting them know about the complexity of Islam in the world today, as well as the complexity of Christianity and other religions. Let them make up their own minds. I rue the day when all the hotheaded bigots will be the ones to decide what goes into our textbooks. Let the scholars decide. I don't want politicians teaching my kids.

I agree. Sadly, most 'scholars' today have political ideologies which they promote under the guise of 'scholarly discourse'. Bill Ayers is a case in point.

And Christianity didn't "impose" religion on anyone?? Do you hear yourselves?? This is what doctored textbooks do.

GradForHire: You say: Unfortunately, those Muslims that are combining their twisted interpretation of Islam and/due to their backward, racist, and archaic culture are the ones apart of these destructive sects within Islam. These are the ones causing the violence. These are the ones that are glorified in the media. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world.

Then why don't the 1.5 bilion peaceful Muslims take the twisted Musims in hand? Why does no Muslim leader, or group of leaders, publicly denounce them and their violence? Are the scared? If so, what are they scared of, being killed? You see, this is the problem. Since no Muslim authority denounces this violence, everyone assumes they agree with it. Just today a threat was made againt the Pope.. any Muslims denounce it, NO. Muslims expect everyone to accept their beliefs, but they won't tolerate anyone elses. Unless I see Muslim leaders and believers denounce terrorist, threats, etc, I'll continue to believe the agree with those policies.