No, it's a stupid initiative that most of the world that doesn't already hate us will condemn. When nothing else works you don't just suggest something outrageous...bold doesn't get you jack if it's not backed by sense. Israel has given up enough land won as a result of being attacked over and over again. And every time they do, they get rockets and suicide bombs. Why on earth would they ever even remotely consider this?

Besides the complete slap in the face to Israel, how about that $1 billion debt he's going to "forgive" for Egypt? and, who the hell gave Obama the right to cancel debts owed to us????????

Dirt-

Obviously since America has racked up massive debt, and has recently set records for the speed we are adding to that debt...it is now time to NOT collect on large amounts of money owed to us.

Obvious if your brain is oatmeal that is...

So if the "Arab nations started this crap", why in the world should Israel give back the captured territory that acts now as a defensible cordon? Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Read between the lines and spruce up on the history of Israel...please. Israel May 14th, 1948.....okay.

No, I am not being sarcastic. I'm being realistic just like our President.

He really does KNOW FOREIGN POLICY!....Maybe he's too brilliant for you to understand his Strategy.

However, I get it.

B.O. is an Obamanation!

Wilberta, I am very well versed in Israeli/Palestinian history and politics, yet I have no clue what you are talikng about or what your overall point is.

I am with Tod and you will need to explain this one to me. Makes no sense at all and this is one of the subjects I read most about and spend time in.

The "brilliant" move Wilberta is referring to is, I believe, her thought that the really smart president is going to psych the Palestinians into showing their real hand. Problem is, we all already know their real intentions. This is why we support Israel.

The middle east is a cesspool. The US is in serious financial trouble, and our idiot president thinks its a good idea to get a few more pots boiling - classic liberal chaos theory. The only brilliance I see with this president is when the shiny lights hit his teleprompter just so...

Wilberta...are you actually saying that giving in to the demands of the Palestinians will make them accept Israel's right to exist!?!?

Maybe you are the one who does not understand middle eastern politics.

Hamas has repeatly stated they will NOT accept Israel's statehood.

"I believe, her thought that the really smart president is going to psych the Palestinians into showing their real hand"

I can believe that wilberta might think that (at this point she could believe anything, who knows?), but if our president does not already know what the Palestinians "real hand" is then we are in deeper trouble than I thought. I mean sheesh, how many presidents have to come face to face with ongoing Palestinian convenient fiction before we call a spade a spade?

Wiberta your post are becoming quite the mystery (actually the more I read them the funnier they get)

Reasons why Obama's Speech is BULL@!$%# (aside from the obvious fact that its clearly politically motivated to maintain support from some while gaining support from others):

1) Obama clearly slept through his US history classes at Columbia. The term "Israeli Occupation" is laughable coming from a US president, considering it was the US that championed the creation of Israel by being one of the principal proponents of the UN mandate that created the state of Israel in 1948.

2) Israel only "occupied" the post 1967 borders of Israel after responding to an invasion from EVERY single one of it's Arab neighbors. Would you try and jump Chuck Norris with six of your friends to steal his wallet and then when he roundhouses all of your buddies to the face and steals YOUR wallet, would you then feel justified in demanding it back?

3) Americans talking about "occupiers" is laughable considering our ENTIRE country is essentially a "permanent occupation." What's next, consessions for returning the land to the nations of Comanche, Apache, and Navajo peoples? Perhaps we prefer to cede California back to Mexico? That's about as realistic as his proposal.

4) this is the SAME bull@!$%# EVERY president since Johnson has tried....and it's failed miserably time and time again. If it hasn't worked for 40 years, why on EARTH would he think it would work now?

5) and finally....while I DO believe the Palestinian autonomous state is a good idea in theory, I think its disingenous for the western world to all of a sudden declare it a necessity for peace. Where was the outcry for palestinian statedhood when the governments of Jordan, Syria, Lebannon, and Egypt held sway over the land that is now called "Israel?" They neglected and ignored the Palestinians...they make a huge deal of it now..ONLY because they consider it a blemish on their pride to have Jew's occupying the holy land...creating a palestinian state will not dissuade Israeli antagonists to stop hating them. Arab Muslims have hated Jews for hundreds and hundreds of years...its not gonna change.

@ Tod,

Then don't sweat it!

Everyone else you are putting words in my posts that I didn't do. Therefore It is obvious you don't comprehend either, so don't worry about my thoughts. Just stick to your own.

I'm not trying to convert anyone to my thoughts, I'm just expressing them as everyone one else expresses theirs.

Ok Wilberta,

I'll just try and assume that you and the President have this amazing secret Middle East master plan that only the two of you mental giants have the brain capacity to understand.

It will be hard, cause I'm kinda thinking that the King (President) has no clothes, but hey if you can see em they must be there!!

Wilberta Berry: I believe you do get it. Let's hope they can pull it off. Our president is one smart leader and deserves our patience and trust in this momentous and very delicate affair. Although timing and events are very close to reciprocal of purpose, there remains certain enduring institutions on all sides which could make this very messy or even defeat the effort. I thank you and hope you will divulge nothing more. My best to you. Shalom good friend!

Oh NO!! Mac sees the clothes too. Maybe they both are part of the Illuminati. Your right mac, Wilberta may have said too much.

Darn, us little people almost got some inside info. on how the world is "really" run. Guess we'll just have to continue to be content with our mundane unenlightened lives. Bummer, so close!!

"borders for Palestine, security for Israel"

Makes sense to me. You don't gain any ground in negotations without giving something to both sides. And it usually must be what they desire the most.

Maxwell said: Obviously since America has racked up massive debt, and has recently set records for the speed we are adding to that debt...it is now time to NOT collect on large amounts of money owed to us.

Max, get your head wrapped around the size of numbers, dawg. One billion in debt forgiven is a SMALL price to pay to help stabilize Egypt and create a little good will. That is a drop in the bucket compared to our current expenditures.

It is an investment. One billion now to avoid spending billions per month like the wars Bush got us into.

You guys need some perspective!

"It is an investment. One billion now to avoid spending billions per month like the wars Bush got us into"

Gotta love that word "investment" (tax). The rest of the sentence shows where your "perspective" comes from.

Borders for Palestine, huh? If those borders include the West Bank and the Golan it aint gonna happen. "Negotiate" with Hamas, whose sole purpose is to drive Israel into the sea, come on; show a little common sense.

A little history...

Both the Jews and the Muslims helped the US during WWII and we promised both parties that we would create a state for them in the land currently called Israel. But we turned our back on the Muslims and supported the Jews with a UN mandate that gave the creation of Israel some legitimacy. The Jews, backed by this US supported mandate, then took the land by force from those already living there, and the people there have never forgotten some of the brutal tactics used by Israel in clearing out the land for the Jews to occupy.

Several wars between Israel and it's neighbors have followed, and contrary to popular belief, the 1967 "Six day war" during which Israel took control of Gaza, the Sinai peninsula, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, was actually begun with a large scale surprise air attack on Egypt by Israel (think Pearl Harbor).

So why does everyone in the US see Israel as a victim? Because we have a very strong Jewish influence on what we are taught in the US in our schools and a very weak Muslim influence. From banks to Hollywood to politics the Jews have a strong influence in America while the Mulsim influence is small.

Do I think Israel has a right to exist? Sure, they have as much right to exist as any nation does. Nation building is a dirty business after all.

Do the Palestinians have a right to be angry? Absolutely. Within some of their lives, Israel forcefully kicked them out of the land they lived on. Many people died in the process. I'd be angry too.

Do the Palestinains have a right to a state of their own? Sure, they have as much right to exist as any nation does.

How does this get resolved? I have no idea but I know I'm tired of people acting like it's all the fault of the Palestinians- Israel has not shown real willingness to settle this dispute either. Frankly I think Israel is happy with the status quo and with US support has no motivation to change their position.

I don't recall the US promising Muslims that we would create a state for them.

I seriously doubt we would have promised Muslims we would create a state for them, since there were already about 20 Muslim countries in the region. It would be like promising Christians, we would create a state for them in Europe.

and I don't think Israel is happy with the status quo of random mortar and rocket attacks on their neighborhoods, and bombs on their buses.

Were there atrocities done to some Muslims by Jews? Yeah. Did they take some of the land? Yeah, but most was bought by individuals and groups of individual Jews from Muslims (ie. Meggido valley) as swampland that the Jews converted into a fertile agricultural gold mine. They have also replanted 100's of thousnads of cedars that the land used to be known for.

Israel surprise attacking Egypt in 1967 must have also been a secret mission huh? Maybe only you and Wilberta know about it?

As far as Israel changing their position goes, what part of: The Palestinian government is half run (by election no less) by Hamas do you not get? What negotiations do you expect them to have with terrorists, and what strategic land do you think they should give over to such terrorists nad sacrifice their own citizens?

Palestinians are a convenient Arab fiction who should have long ago been assimilated into their individual countries of origin; Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and even Egypt.

The Islamic world was advancing greatly under Nassar's influence. Nassar blew that when he joined against Israel. Israel has been a scapegoat for Islamists failing governance ever since.

P.S. The so called Jewish influence you post of, neglects the seriously bias take of most college professors toward the fictitious Palestinian people.

@dolladolla: Your history on the Six Day War is somewhat laughable. Pearl Harbor??

Perhaps you simply "forgot" to metion that the Six Day War broke out following three weeks of tension which began on May 15, 1967 when it became known that Egypt had concentrated large-scale forces in the Sinai peninsula. Egypt's force buildup in the Sinai was accompanied by other serious steps: the United Nations Emergency Force stationed on the border between Egypt and Israel and Sharm el-Sheikh in 1957 and which had provided an actual separation between the countries was evacuated on May 19 upon the demands of the Egyptian president at the time, Gamal Abdel-Nasser; the Egyptian navy blocked the Straits of Tiran, located at the end of the Gulf of Eilat, on the night of May 22-23, 1967, preventing the passage of any Israeli vessels; and on May 30, 1967, Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command. Iraq followed suit. It agreed to send reinforcement and issued a warning order to two brigades: Contingents arrived from other Arab countries including Algeria and Kuwait. Israel was confronted by an Arab force of some 465,000 troops, over 2,880 tanks and 810 aircraft.

Details are such pesky things, but so illuminating when one takes the time to know them.

Makes the rest of your arguments somewhat empty and rather bigoted. Everyone of sound reason agree's there must be a peace but lets make it from ALL the facts.

i think we need to become isolated form the world n work on us not others

I vote for the entire person, not just one issue.

Is that supposed to make a difference? He's ENTIRELY bad!

One thing for sure; without the Jewish vote, he's going to bring in many more truckloads of illegals from the south and make sure they get instructed on how to vote even if you're not eligible to do so.

Considering Israel has (on MULTIPLE occasions) violated treaties; and insist on building in restricted areas; I would say the real antagonist in this story is Israel. Kudos to PRESIDENT Obama for recongnizing the situation; and making a real attempt to put a stop to the antagonists.

>Considering Israel has (on MULTIPLE occasions) violated treaties; and insist on building in restricted areas; I would say the real antagonist in this story is Israel. Kudos to PRESIDENT Obama for recongnizing the situation; and making a real attempt to put a stop to the antagonists.<

So the Arabs, many of whom execute young girls who had the misfortune of being raped, and who have 25 countries (not to mention the 50+ Moslem ones), and who have slain each other in the hundreds of thousands just in recent times, is faultless and Israel is at fault?

Makes a lot of sense!!

Jews have been voting Republican since the 90s, duh.

THAT is not the item in question, thunder. The question is borders... and a border was agreed upon. Israel continues to ILLEGALLY encroach on that border. Thus; I stand by my statement, Israel is the antagonist in this debate.

So ordering an operation to kill the most hated terrorist leader in history is "rewarding terrorism"?

FlyOverMe
Cut your crap already. Israel has been acting like a spoilt child and it times it realizes that she's not above law.

No - telling Israel to cede territory won in a war where they were attacked, to a group of people who arguable advanced the tactics of terrorism more than any other group in the modern age, and continue to commit acts of terrorism - THAT is rewarding terrorism. The last bus bomb in Israel was scaresely 30 days ago. Hamas continues to lob rockets into Israeli houses and school buses.

Apparently for Obama our dead are worth aggressive retaliatory justice, but Israel should simply roll over and die. Not a chance. No deals with terrorist - anywhere. How dare he demand of Israel what we would never do ourselves.

And Israel continues to steal land and destroy homes while choking Palestinians financially. Then they cry when Palestinians fight back the only way they can.
How many innocent children and woman has Israel killed btw?

You guys read too much propaganda. Palestinans have a much higher kill total on innocent civilians, thanks in part to the fact that they TARGET them, unlike Israeli's. Now you are excusing bus bombs and school rocket attacks?

Have you been to the West Bank lately? No one is suffering financially unless at the hands of Fatah. They have new multi million dollar developments for goodness sake! Luxury condo's do NOT consititue hardship or oppression! They have poverty, like any society, but it is thier own internal issue.

Exactly, why do we need to be involved?

Right... So why do the State Dept. and White House constantly lecture Israel?

We call that "Arizona"

You meant democrats right?

Obama is a Democrat, not a Republican.

Zeke: You are correct we only marched them across America and killing most on the "Trail of Tears". Then the rest we slaughtered and forced the rest to live on reservations. You are a totaol nut-job.

Zeke: You are correct we only marched them across America and killing most on the "Trail of Tears". Then the rest we slaughtered and forced the rest to live on reservations. You are a totaol nut-job.

Is that still going on today idiot? This is not the 1800's this is present day. Stop with your ridiculous analogies!

Are the Arabs still throwing rockets into Israel. Are they still sending in suicide bombers. And Native Americans live where they want. You do realize that a large portion still live on reservations. No we are not at war. We disarmed them and killed the rest. Though you may think so it is not a stupid analogy. Asking Israel to go back to the 1967 borders (44 years) is as stupid as us giving America back. For that matter giving Texas back to Mexico. It's insane to even think Israel or any country who has been told in no uncertain terms the the Arab world wants to wipe them out would cede anything.

I suggest you google "Aztlan". Never mind I'm sure you wont. You might try reading the section I made bold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztl%C3%A1n

"Aztlán (from Nahuatl: Aztlān, pronounced [ˈastɬaːn]) is the mythical ancestral home of the Nahua peoples, one of the main cultural groups in Mesoamerica. Aztec is the Nahuatl word for "people from Aztlan". Since the 1960s, the Chicano Movement has used Aztlán as a symbol for a proposed homeland for Hispanics in the Southwestern United States, called the Republica del Norte.

...

Use by the Chicano movement

Main article: Chicano movement

The unofficial flag of Aztlán, used by Chicano nationalists in San Diego and Denver during the Chicano movement

The concept of Aztlán as the place of origin of the pre-Columbian Mexican civilization has become a symbol for various Mexican nationalist and indigenous movements.

The name Aztlán was first taken up by a group of Chicano independence activists led by Oscar Zeta Acosta during the Chicano movement of the 1960s and 1970s. They used the name Aztlán to refer to the lands of Northern Mexico that were annexed by the United States as a result of the Mexican-American War. Combined with the claim of some historical linguists and anthropologists that the original homeland of the Aztecan peoples was located in the southwestern United States^{[citation needed]}, Aztlán, in this sense, became a symbol for mestizo activists who believe they have a legal and primordial right to the land. In order to exercise this right, some members of the Chicano movement propose that a new nation be created, a Republica del Norte.^[10]

Groups who have used the name Aztlán in this manner include Plan Espiritual de Aztlán, MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, "Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán"), and the Nation of Aztlán (NOA).

Many in the Chicano movement attribute poet Alurista for popularizing the term Aztlán in a poem presented during the Chicano Youth Liberation Conference in Denver, Colorado, in March 1969.^[11]

Controversy and criticism

The modern-day Aztlan movement has been criticized as racist and anti-American, a form of ideological "reconquista" that is replete with anti-White and anti-American rhetoric, and in some cases, calls to overthrow the American government, and even to exterminate White Americans.^{[12][13][14][15][16]}

The claim by some Chicano activists of entitlement to roughly the southwestern third of the United States^[17] (on the grounds that, allegedly, this area was once dominated by Aztecs and should therefore be returned) has been critiqued as being founded upon historical inaccuracies. Whether or not territories north of Mexico were once part of an Aztec homeland, the Aztec empire at the time of the arrival of the Spanish conquistadors was vastly smaller than legendary Aztlan, and was confined to what is now southern Mexico. Its area at that time totaled no more than 20% of modern-day Mexico, with no area at all within what is now the United States.^[18][19] What would eventually become the western and southwestern United States was, at the time, inhabited by a wide variety of Native American tribes - including the Shoshone, Ute, Hopi, Navajo, and Apache - but not Aztecs.^[20][21] This invalidates modern claims on the part of Chicano radicals that any part of the U.S. constitutes a part of the Aztec homeland, at least not within recent centuries.

And while it is true that much of the western United States was formerly part of Mexico, these territories came under Mexican rule due not to Aztec habitation but because of Spanish (European) conquest of those territories, now commonly referred to as New Spain or Colonial Mexico.^[22] Only later, after the overthrow of the Spanish government in Mexico, did these territories become part of an independent Mexican nation."

The key difference between the two cases is that the Native Americans were defeated by their conquerors; the Palestinians were never conquered by the Israelis, they were evicted by the rest of the world.

We don't need to drop bombs and massacre native americans because our forefathers already did that. Now we just herd them onto reservations where they can live out the rest of their lives in a dignified way. Elyasm, you should count your blessings that you weren't born a Palestinian.

And we wonder why the country is so messed up. Even suggesting Israel return to borders in exchange for guaranteed existence is enough to get you branded the anti-Christ.

>I happen to remember a handful of American colonists that committed some very similar acts a few hundred years ago.<

Really? Washington's troops targeted civilians for death? The PaliNazis have made the MURDER of innocents into an artform, while colonialists TARGETED ONLY British soldiers!

Why is it that you and your fellow travelers don't get that?

Don't forget the loyalists and tax collectors

Ummm, can you name a single Palestinian before the 1900s? Can you show me any trapping of nationhood or a people before the 1900s?

Actually Israel has attacked the US, just ask the survivors of the USS Liberty. Ask the American Activists that have been shot in the face by israeli soldiers, or worse, murdered like Rachel Corrie. Point is, Israel does not have any special affinity or love for the US, they will do what they want to do regardless of what we ask of them. Fine, let them...just not with my money.

Ever notice how Israel's enemies are constantly bringing up the Liberty incident from almost half a century ago? Pretty pathetic, and it shows how weak their case against Israel actually is. Besides, why would anyone in their right mind side with murderous savages against a a lone democratic state, whose inhabitants have been persecuted from time immemorial, trying to survive surrounded by 25+ Arab countries, none who give their citizens even half the rights Israel grants its Arab citizens?

I cease to be amazed at how utterly stupid your comment is. Please do a little research on recent history. Obama is merely vocalizing what previous administrations attempted to get Israel to do....STOP EXPANDING SETTLEMENTS. G H W Bush even threatened to withdraw U.S. funding from Israel if they continued expanding. The powerful Jewish lobby loudly objected and he lost re-election. Further, you contend that they simply want to live in peace within their borders. This is completely contradicted by continued expansion, which every president, at least since Carter has told them to cease. You're the idiot...not Obama.

TJD= you've got that right! The only thing worse that Twitter is Facebook, and that's a sickening indication of the shape of our culture. Not a day goes by that I don't see some bizarre occurrence or the latest rants and raves of some D-lister or any number of otherwise irrelevant tidbits getting posted or coupled somehow with Facebook. Bullied and beaten kids on video, recorded criminal acts, you name it, and Facebook sees to it that the rest of the world is made aware of itAgain and again, ad nauseum.

A true slap in the face to our only friend in the Middle East a day before the Prime Ministers visit. Forgiving Egypt's debt while thousands of Americans lose there homes to debt! What a crock Obama!

The Palestinians are not our friends and never want to be our friends. Palestinians will not stop until they have all of Israel then you can kiss the whole Middle East Goodbye....

This country has a history of backing the "bad guy" who then later attacks us! Obama's true colors are shining through!