Art, sorry for the inconvenience while we change the world.

art

the best thing that can happen to small businesses is to get some of the money that is accumulating at the top 1% back into the economy. And to have roads and bridges that work. In other words, get rid of the Bush era tax cuts.

And plus the protesters do not need to be babysat. Most of the police presence has made the situation worse. The overwhelming majority of OWS people are peaceful. The kids smashing stuff in Oakland do not represent the mood of this movement.

Art, sorry for the inconvenience while we change the world.

Alan, in order to change anything you need a clear message, and a real action plan to do so. OWS has neither.

Change the world??? The ironic thing is that all these fringe types are marching for socialism, yet look at what's happening to the socialist government in Greece, these OWS folks are deluded!!!

3 gold bars

Greece is getting bailed out by Germany, a country with policies that definitely border on socialism. And they are doing much better than we are.

Who do you think is bailing us out?? Fools

I like the TV coverage where they show the cops beating the crap out of the punks.

Hail and long live the OWS....I hope the American people finally wake up and see how these Bank-Gangsters have robbed us of a just and better society only printing money 24/7 to give us the illusion all is fine - forget the headache of inflation that will render your savings........come on the collapse of a double dip is only being delayed by Germany that is to far into Greece otherwise they would and should let Greece leave the Union and forgive the debt but why continue with the charade of Greece? How much is at stake?

Goog Luck.............

Eventually occupy will become a political party. It is the only next step to effect change properly. Weather or not they are co opted by the left is to be seen. But regardless it would be remiss of them to fore go an outright dip into the political pool of toxic capitalistic government. ; ]

Because let us face it quite frankly, is anyone really listing with intent? Anyone? Bueller? BUeller? ; ]

Cheers

Spider, I'd like to see the police beating the crap out of the bankers since they are the real criminals, not the folks who are pointing that fact out.

I agree that the big banks & financial industry has a stranglehold on the world, and they have to be put in their place. BUT they control the world and have unimaginable power over nations and will not go without a fight. OWS is only the beginning of a very long road towards true liberty and freedom. a very, very long road.

What so many are calling capitalism is nowhere near capitalism. What we're dealing with is fascism.

Art,

I don't see this OWS moment is about moving toward socialism and their message is as clear as 1-2-3 to me. Did you even watch the video before you made your comments?

Art, Typical comment from a GOP member; however, who started all the noise a couple years ago with the TEA party movement. Once you guys won congress you have defended BP during the oil spill, While the rich get better schools, street cleaning, better policing and still do not pay their share of taxes. GOP denies cap and trade and blame the liberals for EPA while the last I heard EPA is affiliated NATO. We have overspent on Bushes fusion centers that were also used as a media tool to go to war with the middle class and possibly end SSI. GOP DID send contractors to Iraq to build roads and schools and the white water army was not needed in iraq. As a veteran we trained every day for war, white water did not. GOP likes to analyze groups of people and send them negative signals to discourage them and win verbal wars and if you ask me my opinion, that is a gossiping christian. Bully ism. I live in California and before we had Gov. Schwarzenegger, we had Gov. Davis and he said California was in deep popo, he made the wrong cuts and GOP made noise and here we are today. We do not have money for overpaid bully cops any longer either.

Well you've changed my mind Danny and I didn't even understand half of what you wrote.

P.S. I think it's funny that you misspelled poopoo... not that I'm trying to be the spelling police, it's just 'deep popo' made me chuckle... so thank you.

Danny,

It appears that you have forgotten to take your meds.

Alan,

From what I've seen of this movement's desired changes for the world, they can keep it. The primary desire that is presented is the expansion of government and the redistribution of wealth largely by the government taking from one group and giving to another group. Then you have the minority of the group who say they don't mind taking it by force on their own.

And please don't bore me by saying that this isn't the desire of the majority of the protestors. I've seen video coverage of multiple protests from multiple sources and wide views of the protests invariably reveal are large number of signs with these sentiments. Top that with the ad that they have released where one of the speakers says, "I want economic justice". Another proclaims that, "The top richest people should be taxed more and the money should go to education."

Really, how is that more money to education thing working for you? This country already spends far more per pupil than most developed nations and the results are still falling.

And then there's the line about wanting corporations out of politics. Really? Why? Aren't corporations run by people? Seems logical that they should be treated just like similar entities - say unions.

Let's do a comparison and see if the theory holds -

Corporations are large groups of people who sell a product or a service. If that product or service is one of quality, the corporation makes money. That money can then be directed by a person (CEO, CFO, COO, etc.) to a political cause that benefits the company. All the money that is donated to said cause comes about because people willingly give money to the corporation for the product or service they provide or it is invested by people who buy stock.

Unions similarly are large groups of people that operate as a collective. They too deliver a service, but that service is delivered solely to their members. Money to fund these services is taken from the members in many cases in a compulsory manner rather than a voluntary manner. Assuming that there is money left over from other activities, some of it can be donated to a political cause that will benefit the group members. The decision to make the donation is made by an individual person (union boss, union leader, etc.).

Seems the theory is pretty sound. So, if you want corporations out of politics; do you also want unions out? No one in this movement has said they do so far. In fact, this movement is largely being supported by unions.

AS it concerns one basic tennant that I have heard from OWS, I agree. There should have been no bailout of the banks or other businesses. GM, Chrysler, BAC, and all the rest should have been allowed to fail just like Lehman Brothers was allowed to fail.

If OWS were to decide to concentrate on that point, they would likely draw broader support. Unfortunately the group is far too focused on things like "economic justice". On top of that they are spending large amounts of time and energy blocking the people they supposedly represent from living their lives by blocking ports, blocking offices, occupying areas in a manner that prevents customers from reaching small businesses, and doing damage to the small businesses that border the protest area. Top that off with violent incidents reported in many of the "encampments" and rioting in the streets a la Greece in Oakland and the "movement" is really just a costly spectacle drawing support from the likes of Iran and Cuba. It might even draw some support from Greece if they weren't so busy being the example as they slowly go broke. Hmmm... I guess Greece is an example in more ways than one to OWS. They're showing how to protest and what it looks like if OWS gets what they want.

your government and it's owners just destroyed your country, why don't you walk through a few homeless shelters, or visit a few food banks...watch your beloved police support gun runners........man you must be deaf, dumb, and blind

OWS is the tip of the spear. OWS is the voice that says the 99 are not powerless - that the 1% fairy tale is not real.

The 99 are learning they do not need government to act for them. The 99 are learning they can create their own life, their own future without the 1%. The 99 are learning ...

Europe adopted socialism a long time ago. We are the only ones who think that pure capitalism still exists. We may believe that, but we do not act that way. Pure capitalism died decades ago. If we had pure capitalism in this country, those banks that failed a few years ago would have never been bailed out. What Washington did in 2008 was 100% pure socialism. They intervened to prevent the meltdown of the system that was scheduled to be terminated. There is nothing capitalistic about that. We live in a partially socialist economy because the Fed runs out monetary policy. They set the interest rate, decide how much liquidity is to be injected into the system and when and that shapes every aspect of our economy. Using that standard, we are a socialist country whether we like it or not. The only difference between us and China these days is our democracy and human rights. Although the democracy part is highly questionable. The American people are no longer in charge of the election process. Corporations have assumed that responsibility.

You have the Tea Party (the bad guys), it is only natural and even scientific that you would have the Occupy Wall street Party (the good guys). With every force there is an equal and opposite force. Good will always win, go go OWSP, you got my vote.

LOL I've never once read a comic where the "good guys" sit in their secret fortress and fight over what their goal is or how to properly implement it. Nor is their secret fortress in the middle of a public park where they have utterly destroyed it and cost the townspeople they claim to love hundreds of thousands of dollars a week. But nice try. They're only the "good guys" in YOUR eyes. Please don't talk like you speak for all of us. THE MAJORITY (64% ast poll I checked), either don't give a f%^k about this stupidity or want it to end. You can keep trying to make it sound like you represent 99% of us, but you don't.

I checked your pole that you posted and on "your" pole it said 48% dont care and thats because if you had read the pole, they are un informed. They where not keeping up on the situation. But hey, you believe what you want. Every single person I talked to here in Washington State says the exact opposite, so I don't know who gave your pole or where they took the sample but it must have been in a Red state. Try doing that pole in Washington State and you will get a complete different pole numbers. If you look how this is going viral all over the world then you would not believe your stupid pole. So sorry your parks are being inconvenienced while we fix the nation, but please leave a message and someone who cares will get back to you as soon as possible.

The people are on the move, and it's about time to hear their voices. We aren't buying the corporate lies, and right wing, "starve the beast" philosophy any more. We've allowed them to take over, we can take our lives and our nation back to some form of sanity, and demonizing all government, just won't work anymore. We are and must be the new government, the old one is perverted and must be changed. It won't happen over night and it will be a battle for the soul of our country. And we will win, we must.

Bob - How would you know what the situation of his underwear is? The Right wing wacko's are trying to make it look like everyone in the movement is destitude, scruffy, bumbs. It may intrest you to know that most have jobs and are doing this on their days off and after work. Gotta get a life dude.

How would you know what the situation of his underwear is?

Because that is his life, Brenda. You see he's paid to visit as many discussion groups, like this one, and leave his poop stains. He, along with the likes of Spider have nothing better to do and probably live in their parents basements. The checks they get from the Koch's keep them in Twinkies and Red Bull. Pay them no mind.

Clever, Tony. The fact is that I work well over 40 hours a week in a salaried position at the corporate office of a Fortune 100 company. I personally identify as a democratic socialist (see Bernie Sanders, the Vermont Senator, for the general idea) and this rumor that someone's paying me to go to bat for the poor is ludicrous. Who could afford to pay me to make posts that would help lift up the poor by raising taxes on the undertaxed wealthy? That's not a fundable position.

I spent some time homeless when I was growing up but I kept working and clawing my way out and I've become successful through that hard work, but the opportunities available to me in 1998 are not available to young adults today. All the hard work and strong ethics in the world will not help them improve their situation when billionaires have their foot on the throat of the government, preventing them from helping anyone except the top 1%. Think about it this way... when banks made all the unethical calls on mortgages and the people also made the poor decision of signing those mortgages without reading them, which group did the government bail out and which group did they sell out?

A bailout to the people would've resulted in the mortgages being paid, so it would've benefitted the people AND the banks. Instead, the banks got a trillion and the homeowners got foreclosed on, sometimes even when they didn't even owe anything or had never even done business with the bank that was foreclosing on them. The banks have literally been STEALING houses from people, and nobody's in prison for it. And you want to sit back and act like someone has to PAY me to ACT pissed off about that sort of openly criminal fraud being perpetrated by institutions that are above the law because they bought the law. Give me a break.

Sparky1028, what's hilarious is that the OWS with strong support of the unions are protesting the very same people that made the Chrysler/GM bailouts possible saving innumerable UAW jobs. Without the complicity and strong-arm tactics of JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Citigroup on smaller entities in regards to the rights of secured debt holders, those bankruptcies and "re-organizations" would have never passed muster and loads of union jobs would have been lost. Yet this is the thanks they get.

Since Sauvage is allowed and encouraged to pick and choose the issues which are promoted, I guess he is now the de facto spokesman for and by extension the leader of the movement.

Funny, it turns out that he who has the money does get to define the terms.

Mike

It is odd how the OWS ignores all the good that Banks have done for this country for decades, and how so many "Bankers" are simply tellers, branch managers, lenders, and other middle class and even lower class income earners. The don't realize that attacking banks is attacking hundreds of thousands of jobs.

They also don't realize that the "bailout" of banks was at 5+% and the government actually made money on it. Banks were not "given" money, they were lent money. And some, like Chase didn't even want the money.

And mortgages, whose fault is that? The government forced banks to loan to people who couldn't afford it(CRA), Freddie and Fannie underwrote all those bad mortgages, the public thought they could afford it and the value of their houses were going straight up. The banks were not to blame for the bad mortgages. I do believe there was a problem with the banks that sold these mortgages in bundled products, but even the banks didn't know the extent of how bad these toxic assets were.

And this debit card fee. $5? Claiming victory for stopping banks from charging $5? How about colleges charging $50,000 a year. Ignoring that is a crime.

The crusade against banks is just a way to blame someone for the general economic demise that we all face. I can look in the mirror to blame some of my economic problems, these OWS people cannot, they blame everyone else.

Mike, that's one small detail the ows people don't like to admit.

Eventually occupy will become a political party. It is the only next step to effect change properly.

When polled half of them admit they didn't vote in the last election. So, yeah, good luck with that.

Art, @ # 1.0. I wish you had not been collapsed because your points quoted below need some clarification.

I'd like some clips of people saying:

"I want to be able to enjoy this public park again, someday."

"I want to be able to go to work without being harassed, especially since I'm supposedly part of the 99%"

"I want my small business to be accessible by my customers, and not be punished because I'm located near a protest sight."

"I want my police force to be ready in case of REAL emergencies, not tired and overworked from babysitting protestors."

The only way you'll see your interviews would be on a made up Fox News commentary.

1. It's actually a private park, that the owners allow the public, including OWS, to use.

2. You've not been to the OWS location or you would know that the sidewalks are completely free, and no pedestrian is being harassed.

3. The only small business I saw at the protest side was a sidewalk vendor, and he was doing a land-sale business.

4. The police on duty were fresh, friendly and alert - just as they were at the World Trade Center Memorial 1 block away.

Ya see, your comments are based on your preconceived notions, that have nothing to do with what is happening "on the ground." That is your right as an American citizen. So thank the spirit of free speech in America that allows you to speak non-sense, and the OWS to protest American corporate greed.

Alan, great response to the lowlife tea party idiots and the far right fox news loons. Hey! How does one get a paid gig for ranting on news blogs and vines? I would love to have one of those paid gigs and I wouldn't have to act. Have a good one Alan, I admire you and respect you.

Because the problems in this nation are so vast plenty and wide, no one message from OWS is enough. You all think by focusing on one issue is enough when many issues intertwine.

Lar, if the banks paid back those loans with 5% interest and the government made money off them, why are you all (fox news lunatics, T-Pers and the far right blaming Obama on EVERYTHING? Get the *bleep* out of the way and let the 1st amendment work.

To those who think OWS is costing citizens money policing the demostrations, tell the local authorities so much police attention is not needed. They are the ones causing the problems, not the demonstrators.

Whether you are with them or against them, these protesters have set inextinguishable brush fires in the minds of the corrupt super rich and our unscrupulous politicians who always back them up.

What could be destroyed by the truth… should be…

I'll ask a question I STILL haven'tgotten a straight answer to.Feel free to do so, if you can without rhetoric, hyperbole, or stupidity.....

How is it that the rich and banks are "stealing" your money?

I'll wait.

To Pete... THANK YOU! OWS has a huge problem because they believe they are fighting "capitalism" which means FREE MARKETS responding to genuine supply and demand..... a great system we have NEVER tried. What we have is corporat fascism or corporatism....... OWS's heart is in the right place but they may lose support from the majority of the public because of an error in semantics and economic misunderstandings. History teaches us socialism has ALWAYS failed simply because it contradicts basic human nature. It would be devastating for this vital and profoundly important movement against corproate fascists to fail because of an easily corrected misconception......

Gharms, I guess the rich and the banks are stealing from you in the same way that government taxation is stealing from the rich: Namely that it is allowed by the United States Constitution. Or is that particular document just way too hyperbolic for you?

Greentimer.....

Reading comprehension is apparently not your strong point. That was sort of my point. How is a company making money from people consumingtheir goods or services "Stealing"? I hear it everyday on these boards. "The rich are stealing from the poor and middle class!". That's great rhetoric and hyperbole, but theft is illegal, and nothing these banks are doing is illegal.

My point being, if OWS actually wanted change, and not just to be a pain in the ass, block streets, ruin parks, assault the elderly and handicapped, spout antisemetic jargon, be backed by the communist party, be backed by the white power movement, having rapes, drugs, assaults, etc.........wouldn't they Occupy the steps of Congress? That would be too logical for the group of morons squatting in my favorite park and trashing it, though.

This video was shot on site at several different OWS rallies. Does this seem like something anyone wth a brain would want to be associated with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k4Ad6QWBL8&feature=related

Here's your "patriotic, tolerant" left at work.

Gharms, look at post # 7.4 below to read somebody whining about stealing from the rich via taxation. Point is, if you happen not to like some kind of money transaction, then call it stealing and that eliminates any rebuttal. But call it both ways: Bank profits are not stealing and taxation isn't stealing.

If Zuccotti, or Liberty Plaza, is your favorite park, and you've visited it in the last month, then you and I both know that the "morons squatting" in it have nothing in common with the Fox News videos with which you've chosen to slander them.

Why would anyone with a brain base their assessment of an activity, or their selection of associations, on a one-sided video instead of actual contact?

Full disclosure: I have no need to watch somebody else's video of OWS to know what's going on "at several different OWS rallies".

You know, I'm sorry, but I read all these posts and just wanna scream. Many of you do nothing but point fingers at each other, defining GOP as "evil" or "bad guys" or "tea baggers" -- as if every Republican has identical beliefs, and every Republican is right wing. And those oh-so-clever references to "Faux News" and the evil Fox News -- you're no better than what you are accusing Republicans of being. Because MSNBC-TV is so fair and balanced?!

And on the other side, every Democrat is a "left winger" and socialist. Read what you're writing and criticizing about Congress, who do absolutely nothing but point fingers at each other, thereby bringing the country to a standstill. You're doing the same thing here -- name calling, right vs. left, "good" vs. "evil," 99% vs. 1%... The fact is that the world is not just black and white, and most Americans fall in the middle somewhere.

There are a lot of great posts on these boards, with intelligent discussion. The rest just continue the damaging rhetoric and blame game.

Okay, I'm done ranting. Sorry.

getmoneyout.com. check it out. this will change our nation.

ART: "Alan, in order to change anything you need a clear message, and a real action plan to do so. OWS has neither."

No message? Read this:

ok that's annoying. the link is:

ok now i'm really getting annoyed, is this a conspiracy? i paste the link, i can see it there, then i hit post and it disappears. So now i'll try typing it manually, sheesh

ok i guess it doesn't let you post links, what the hell. it's [] maybe in brackets it will work.

screw this. google it. it's sites.google.com, then backslash, then "site" then another backslash, then "the99percentdeclaration"

Is Soros paying for this?

Trust me, when it comes on, my channel will change. I have no interest in listening to anything these people "want."

do you wonder who funds tea party activities? Do you wonder who contributes to GOP candidates? Or do you only suspect some kind of evil conspiracy when it's OWS?

Coming back with questions instead of answers means that you are insecure and majorly defensive... Even if everything the Tea Party does is some great conspiracy, who cares...it still doesn't answer the legitimate question as to who is paying for these OWS ads!

I'm going to ignore your personal attacks and get to the point.

Nobody here knows who the "168 citizens" are who paid for this ad. But if you are trying to insinuate that this movement is not authentic, if you are suggesting that it is the creation of a cabal of shadowy figures, you need to get out more. Polls show that OWS has support from a majority of Americans.

Obama and the democrats are paying for it of course, who else. These protestors are dumb nitwits who are mostly homeless people looking for food. Some protest, lets cause some trouble and shut down a port. I say arrest all of them, this way we get the park back.

ImOutOfHere

You don't believe in freedom of association? You don't like the constitution?

"I say arrest all of them"

Darn that pesky first amendment.

Actually, it's more likely people like me who donate to MoveOn.org. I'd rather see these ads than the brainwashing that goes on from Ads from the Koch Brothers, who back the GOP and Tea Party.

The same people who gave you the "Story of Stuff." The Tides Foundation and a host of other Soro's sponsored 'media.' As to brainwashing and donations, you think there aren't agendas here? You have the progressive agenda (nanny state, big government, redistribution of wealth aka: communism) vs. conservative (big business, less regulations aka: fascism) Neither are to be admired or followed. As to Move On? Oh please, you want Unkel George to run your life? Think he and his ilk don't have an agenda? You like being a sheep?

As to the polls showing support, they don't really have the support, they polled people and asked about two things, one being how they felt about banks, bailouts etc, and the other set of questions related to OWS, and they combined the two, making it seem as though most Americans support OWS, however if you ask people about their opinions on violence, destruction, squatting and desecrating the flag, well... If you think most Americans support that, guess again.

LOL Obama's paying for it? Why would he fund a movement that hates everything that he stands for as the most Wall Street-funded president in history? That couldn't be a more wildly improbable statement.

ImOutOfaHere: I was at an Occupy protest today. You need to look a little closer. It's younger, college age kids who went to college and now can't find a job because there aren't any (guess the job creators forgot to create them over the 10 years before Obama), middle age folks who saw their homes and savings go belly up and will have to work till their 90, and older folks who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years and will have it taken away from them. There are all ages, races and reasons for being there. Also, the homeless people and other disenfranchised people would be welcome to share their voice. There are also Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Anarchists, any kind of "ist" you'd like to name. The only folks that aren't there are the Plutocrats.

The money is the tool. Where it comes from is unimportant. How the tool is used is what matters.

So 168 people funded 30 seconds of air time across a host of television channels over multiple days. I wonder how much that all costs. It is amazing that as "impoverished" as the 99% is, that just 168 of them pooled this kind of money. Is it possible that some of the 168 were part of the evil 1%? After all they are putting the ad on Fox News.

Yep, MyGirl, You're probably right, and God Bless Soros for supporting people that ultimately want him to pay more taxes so that the underdog gets a chance. He seems to care more for Americans then the 1% Does, so more power to him. Whatever you may think his agenda is, it's the results I care about. Call it what you want. If it works against obscene inequality, it's the right agenda.

Uhhh....the last poll I saw said only 36% of americans were buying what OWS was selling.....so no, that's not a majority. Liberal math, I suppose.....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2011/occupy_wall_street_protesters_36_favorable_41_unfavorable

Maybe they should change their names to the 36%ers.

Fox News Poll data was collected via a vote button on their website. Word got out to OWS and they flooded the site with positive votes. Guess the end of "Drumming up support of the movement" justified the mean of "manipulating polling data to reach a false conclusion". "evil" 1% have been doing this for years glad to see that OWS has something in common with them.

Adam, you contend that since the supporters voted their support and spread the word so other supporters could vote their support that somehow there was a "manipulation" of the data? Umm, that's how polls work... you vote for it if you support it and against it if you don't. That's not manipulation, that's exactly how it's designed to operate.

Gharm - Maybe if you only pole Republicans, but every person I know is for the OWS movement. So not sure what scewed pole your looking at, but its not representative of anyone in Washington state.

Change the channel. It's what I usually do whenever a commercial airs.

Ad or no ad, lunatics are still lunatics.

Nerm_L

The money is the tool. Where it comes from is unimportant. How the tool is used is what matters.

Speaking of tools. The park appears to be full of them.

smartblonde

"I was at an Occupy protest today. You need to look a little closer. It's younger, college age kids who went to college and now can't find a job"

Maybe if they didn't have pierced lips & dress like transients they could get jobs.

I hope everyone in Washington state is a bit smarter than Brenda1964. That is P-O-L-L Brenda not P-O-L-E. Your college degree is showing. These kids parent did them a disservice sending them to college to study for 4 years of Star Trek, ancient art or any kind of liberal arts. No wonder they can't find jobs they wasted 4 years of their lives and thousands of dollars to sit around get drunk, and eat pizza.

Gharms - Rasmussen is a notoriously Conservative polling group. You may want to quote results from someone a little less biased.

Congrats to Occupy Wall Street.....great commercial! Oh and former CIGNA employee Wendell Potter would make an excellent commercial.

Well, look at how many people pay for the TP in Wisconsin: 2 Brothers, or how many people finance the North Carolina GOP craziness: 1 grumpy man who lost an election.

Donna426 -

"I hope everyone in Washington state is a bit smarter than Brenda1964. That is P-O-L-L Brenda not P-O-L-E. Your college degree is showing. These kids parent did them a disservice"

First of all, you corrected a person and then totally screwed up a couple of times yourself, even the beginning of the sentence immediately following your pathetically ignorant attempt at discrediting Brenda. "These kids parent"...really? HYPOCRITE!

The MESSAGE is what matters, grammar isn't all that important hoss.

All I can say is I worked in a top 10 fortune 500 company for 15 yrs. What goes on is sickening. The people at the top whos top skill is power lunching and playing golf get the money. The people at the bottem get a speach about teamwork and working together to make the company a success and get told the economy is weak and there will be no raises. The top people still get thiers. Please stop the talk of if you work hard you'll get somewhere. The way its played is if you work hard but stuffed suit #1 owes a favor to stuffed suit #2 then his loser friends son will get the job. Its not what you know, its who you blow and anyone working in a fortune 500 company knows it. THATS the way corporate America works...

They weren't born at the top of this ladder. How do you suppose they got there? I agree what goes on is bad BUT ... look at it this way. They weren't always at the top. Who do you think puts them there? Maybe some sort of Board of members? Okay so go after the Board's rules and regulations. Those are not probably changeable by you. But by someone. Find out who. Do your research first. Not all of corporate America works like that. Maybe your one particular company.

As for the people who lost their homes: some were due to VERY bad financial decisions by the people who owned the homes and by the mortgage companies that made the loans. I saw a story of the news where a construction work and a bus driver (married couple) had bought a house for $800,000! On a construction worker's salary?! REALLY? Did they really believe that they could keep that up - the payments? I'm sure the mortgage company said SURE it'll all work out in the end. But honestly people make better financial decisions. If you don't have the money don't use credit. It'll come back and bite you in the end!

No they were't born at the top of the ladder. They worked a little for a year or two then talked it up and drank with the big wigs. I am all for hard work, but being in the workforce for 30 years you know how it works. I now work at a small company and the guy who does everything in that office got told this year that he can't get a raise. I do accounting and cut the paycheck for his spoiled son he brought in who makes 3X what the guy that the company can't do without gets. Fair? As far as the people who bought the house they couldn't afford, I agree with you. People made stupid decisions and should have to live with it, don't expect someone to bail you out.

Yes!!! I had the exact same thought, but failed to comment! Too true! Donna426! Two words: Proof read.

I am a stickler for my own writing/speaking skills. But on threads, reading other people's posts, I just try to ignore the mistakes and focus on the content...THE MESSAGE IS WHAT MATTERS! Does it really matter if a fascist has excellent writing/speaking skills? The message is still scary (Oh-and it sucks!).

But 4real123 if they quit protesting it's not out of the question that we'll all get to experience having an empty stomach, not being able to get warm or take a shower. There are Americans right this moment experiencing that! And YOUR government is concerned about a 10% cut in the TRILLION dollar budget of the DOD. Now tell me that those ugly, old people in our government have their priorities right. Oh wait .... intergrity and priorities kinda go hand in hand. My tiny little fraction of government is trying to right that!

4real123, you just said you don't have respect for those people living in the park, then turned around and suggested they give up materialistic goods... how would you suggest they do that? I know... maybe they could live in the park!

Rasmussen is a notoriously Conservative polling group. You may want to quote results from someone a little less biased.

Regardless their polls have been proven to be very accurate and are quoted by every major news agency.

Also Quinnipiac got a similar result- "By a 39 - 30 percent margin, American voters have an unfavorable opinion of the Occupy Wall Street movement, with 30 percent who don't know enough about it for an opinion."- http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1670

They are taking out ads because they don't want to be seen as the lunatic fringe but the reality is that the lunatic fringe has completely overwhelmed the rational people who started this. Their lack of a clear and concise message from the beginning allowed every radical and fruitcake to glom on to the movement irreparably damaging it.

I love liberals......now Rasmussen is Conservative? It was your sweetheart, go to poll 8 years ago when they were saying Bush wasn't popular. LOL this is the liberal mindset. If a poll doesn't say what you want it to, it's biased, or it's just an opinion and doesn't matter. As soon as it says something you want it to, it's fact, and no one can contest it, ever. Gimme a god damned break. You people are so sick in the head that it hurts. You keep telling yourself OWS is the popular, people's movement if it makes you feel better. It's not. Most of these places are so dangerous that women don't stay overnight. Several have raped, assaulted, or been a haven for drugs. Don't believe me? HERE'S AN OWS PERSON to explain it FOR you.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGFeJ6gmJAE&feature=player_embedded

Or here's another braintrust....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLSvK2eIoBs

And another racist rant....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZF4FJ2eUA&feature=related

At one point, OWS maybe thought they hada message. Now, the lunatics are running the asylum. No one is backing this anymore except the hippies and the freeloaders.

This one is my favorite.....from the "tolerant" left...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b1K1r_w8u38

And here's some of your braintrusts on Howard Stern...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY&feature=related

Simplest of questions.......and not a coherent answer in the bunch.

GET A JOB.

Gharm - Maybe if you only pole Republicans, but every person I know is for the OWS movement. So not sure what scewed pole your looking at, but its not representative of anyone in Washington state.

Terrible spelling aside, you would know how EVERYONE IN WASHINGTON STATE FEELS? How very narcissistic of you. Have you talked to all 6,724,540 people? This, again, is the liberal mindset.

"This is what I think, so it must be what everyone thinks, because I am infallible."

Gimme a break.

Here's some more proof of OWS being unpopular that you can immediately dismiss as biased because it doesn't say what you want it to.

http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2011/11/poll-voters-viewing-occupy-wal.php

Alan: Polls are designed to be non-biased. When one side decides to hijack a poll to make a point the poll ceases to be non-biased. Can't be too concerned with it considering that polls are designed simply to reflect what people are thinking and by purposely biasing the poll all OWS has done is give themselves a pat on the back with information not based in reality.

Again, by "hijack" you mean "vote on."

That's not true at all, Alan. I could ask you if you thought Obama was doing a terrible job. If you said no, as a poller, I could then mark you down as thinking he was trying to murderour babies and drink their blood.....you just said he wasn't doing terrible....I took it to a whole nother level. And that's how half these polls are taken. The reason I sued Rasmussen is it's the 7th most accurate polling site in the world. The other 6 don't normally cover political polls (more of a R&D type thing for companies). You can call it conservative if you'd like, but it doesn't change that they are the most accurate as far as political polls go.

That like calling dice "biased" because they won't roll snake eyes everytime.

Maybe if you only pole Republicans

Republicans on poles? Where do you put the Democrats, on milk crates?

by brenda1964
"Gharm - Maybe if you only pole Republicans, but every person I know is for the OWS movement. So not sure what scewed pole your looking at, but its not representative of anyone in Washington state."

I guess I would have to say that you need to get out and meet more people.

by smartblonde
"ImOutOfaHere: I was at an Occupy protest today. ... It's younger, college age kids who went to college and now can't find a job because there aren't any (guess the job creators forgot to create them over the 10 years before Obama), ..."

Exactly what are the poll numbers again in reference to those OWS protestors who are employed?

Secondly, those younger, college age kids of which you speak; Much of their unemployment is due to their selection of degree.

by smartblonde
" ... and older folks who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years and will have it taken away from them ..."

Hyperbole. This has as much to do with the individual not understanding the program to begin with.

Just to be clear, Imouttofhere called people without homes and hungry people "dumb". Man, I hope you live a great life under whatever rock you reside. Compassion much, I think not! If this is the way a majority of Americans think, I worry for the survival of the United States of America. You know, the old statement- united we stand, divided we fall- if taken literally, would indicate that the divisions in America which are no longer specifically about race, but about class.

Now, "they" are trying to make the middle class fight with the poor, pushing this American exceptionalism theme to the point where if you are not in the 1%, you are probably being used by them, either in your workplace, or places of worship, or even within charitable organizations, most of which are happily aligned with the 1%. for instance most "leaders" of charities such as Salvation Army, draw salaries similar to top corporate CEO's, usually placing them sqaurely in the 1%. If you earn less than $380,000/yr and/or have a net worth less then 2 Million dollars, AND keep voting for these fools who keep screaming "austerity" and "deficits" rather than "jobs" or "feed the hungry" then you are supporting the 1% at your peril.

Commercials are expensive. It was found out that ows is backed by Soros, Adbusters (anticapitalist group out of Canada), and ACORN (and they get funds from OUR government). Why aren't they protesting Obama's white house? He's in bed with the bankers? Why not Barney Frank, Maxine Waters (her husband has been a beneficiary of the banking laws), and Chris Dodd (used to be on the banking committee)? Those are the people passing the laws and giving out money. Soros wants to wreck out economy. He was probably short oil when obama released some of the strategic oil reserves. He's in bed with obama and his hedge fund is now called "a family business" so it is not regulated (from the Dodd Frank law). Crony democratic capitalism. By the way, the banks did pay back TARP--but shouldn't have been given it in the first place. Let them fail if they make unwise bets.

Wow, that's deep.

So what's the exact plan of action, here?

The plan of action is to learn how to change things - without relying on government - without accepting the lies of the 1%.

Look like the trolls are out en masse today. I guess in I were making 81 cents per post I would be bitter also.

LOL ....as if Adam. Good try though.. if nothing else it got you 81 cents.

VOTE RON PAUL

Oh sure, Ron Paul, yeah right.

Sorry Ron Paul follower, the EPA is a needed and necessary government agency that I will not see disabled. Go try to sell your goods on Fox. They support the pro-pollution/anti-EPA crowd at Fox News (so-called).

MAW-1297690....".Soros wants to wreck out economy " this is almost a funny statement considering the shape this economy is in today thanks to politicans and their wealthy backers in washington today. So far..this country has lost about 6 million jobs in manufacturing that have gone elsewhere thanks to congress and its trade deals....this country has gone from being number one in nearly every field from education tot he sciences....this country is no longer number one in manufacturing..the tech fields talked about are also going elsewhere..that means thanks to congress all the better higher paying jobs are leaving..hope you will be happy with hopefully 6 to 8 dollars an hour. Also, so far..the housing areas have gone through the floor...the stock market is going like a roller coaster...it too is headed down...question becomes..how long before our government can no longer borrow its way into even more debt just to make things look better than they are? I have to wonder just how many more will going into proverty thanks to a government that has show it does not care about the middle class.

Unlike the Tea Party which was organized by the Koch Brothers, ows is made up of local groups that protest issues that have led to the downfall of 99%--corporate power destroying democracy and enslaving working Americans. It's no longer a democracy when human beings cannot participate and or be heard. People are out in the streets because calling or writing a letter to your congressperson clearly doesn't work anymore.

To make this an anti_Obama movement is to say all the power comes from one person. Presidents have become the servants of corporate power as has Congress. They serve special interests that trample out your rights, eliminate jobs, depress wages. Occupy is doing a good job. Anybody can donate.

Maybe if the ruling oligarchy finally took the boot of the head of the middle class, the protesters could disband and those things would come true.

You mean “take the boot off the neck (strangling) of the middle-class” not the head. Sheesh you cannot even expound properly, it is know wonder why you want my money.

ctosn1980: You're the 1%? Somehow I really doubt it judging by your post. If you are though, you know first hand how how tax policies in particular have turned in your favor over the last decade since you are not among actually living off of wages. And IF you have, then you're turned around and created many, many jobs with those gains, correct? That was the theory you'll remember...even when George Bush Sr. called it "voodoo economics". That of course was before 94 and all the massive deregulation on the markets. You know, when you're that content to use OTHER people's money, all the while insisting it's only fairness for you to do so, you have far less ground to be doing this much whining about just what part of the rest of the taxpayers' bodies you are 'strangling'.

It is odd how the OWS ignores all the good that Banks have done for this country for decades, and how so many "Bankers" are simply tellers, branch managers, lenders, and other middle class and even lower class income earners. The don't realize that attacking banks is attacking hundreds of thousands of jobs.

They also don't realize that the "bailout" of banks was at 5+% and the government actually made money on it. Banks were not "given" money, they were lent money. And some, like Chase didn't even want the money.

And mortgages, whose fault is that? The government forced banks to loan to people who couldn't afford it(CRA), Freddie and Fannie underwrote all those bad mortgages, the public thought they could afford it and the value of their houses were going straight up. The banks were not to blame for the bad mortgages. I do believe there was a problem with the banks that sold these mortgages in bundled products, but even the banks didn't know the extent of how bad these toxic assets were.

And this debit card fee. $5? Claiming victory for stopping banks from charging $5? How about colleges charging $50,000 a year. Ignoring that is a crime.

The crusade against banks is just a way to blame someone for the general economic demise that we all face. I can look in the mirror to blame some of my economic problems, these OWS people cannot, they blame everyone else.

Thanks occupy! Life's not fair I know, but to be endlessly treated like we are stupid is getting old.Lets let common sense rule for a while.

Hail and long live the OWS....I hope the American people finally wake up and see how these Bank-Gangsters have robbed us of a just and better society only printing money 24/7 to give us the illusion all is fine - forget the headache of inflation that will render your savings........come on the collapse of a double dip is only being delayed by Germany that is to far into Greece otherwise they would and should let Greece leave the Union and forgive the debt but why continue with the charade of Greece? How much is at stake? Which has a mouse trail to our shores and more potential Bail Outs.

There is by all accounts enough in the Social Security Trust Fund till 2035, a recent borrowing from the Treasury will and must be put back via the selling of T-Bills the sooner the better (possibly). The rest these thugs call our tax money an "Entitlements", they even include that which should be sustainable through our tax levied on our gross income (our mo. The rest of our "Social Safety Net" the Teapublicans must be cut back......now I ask you to think....Mr. Buffets stereotypical example of how the 10% get away with a 17.5% tax on income and we pay 35%...where should the burden be placed for just and fair society? This is a war against a backsliding into a Great Depression and even worse.

Possibly soon a “Bank Holiday” for a few days as in the Great Depression to mark to market (if the markets can handle the truth and the real worth of the big banks, and make adjustments before rising rates to stem inflation and not fight de-flation which we are now doing: “The Talk On The Street” suit very plausibly laid the scenario out after the next election, no matter the executive, for a rise in rates to even pay the national interest. Also, a 25% cut across the board to all recipients of societal programs. So-called “Entitlements”, even if we return to a 39% tax maximum federal tax. Worse, even if we institute a higher tax on the “mega-rich”. End this profit wind fall for the private for profit monopolization of health care and nationalize Medicare with a means test, a mandatory as million are on this program can budget in private heath care and the money they paid is treated as part of the Treasury, as your deceased spouse may have paid into Social Security but you get nothing of the possibly hundreds of thousands in the account so the treat the money paid on a means basis.

The "Op-Out" feature should be in place so those that qualify per the means test but rather pay the cost of private insurance may do so and let the private, for a fee private health insurance market set these rates.

Stop "rigged trade" but not make the mistake of the thirties and start a trade war by raising taxes on all imports, a slow and thoughtful approach, not too slow, but lets start today but how, you may ask, when we have elected politicians with one lone goal is to topple this president and let the country suffer one generation of Americans after another for the debts of the gambling casinos, with your money, called "Wall Street" the "Financial Sector" they sound so grand our benefactors.

Part of the answer, I think, to means test all “Entitlements”, institute the said taxes but lesson the hit on Social Security to less, much less than 25% that is only a number that someone threw out there without scoring the results of many other measure as reducing the yearly salaries, as all travel and lodging is tax paid for the congress to $150,000 per max no acceptance, capitalizing on their position in government, no acceptance of money certain boundaries and no use of said money for campaign use. All campaigns are public financed with free national media time in equal amounts to all candidates. Finally, as in the business news of late a return to the “transaction cost fee” (think flash-trading and the help with our burden of debt) which was in place until Wall Street’s handpicked congress person, there are so many,repealed this act in some phony trade off to pass, how did they pull this off?

Stop the bullies of the right shouting down MS. Warren when she tries to speak, thugs send out on our national media to instill fear into the average American as knocking to the ground that small woman then head stomping her head on concrete for carrying a sign. This is the face of the new America IF decent people do not act and speak out when we we see brutality against our fellow Americans aimed to silence them with violence............... SOLIDARITY

Have a Good Day.

Goog Luck.............

Correction #4.15 -

GOOD LUCK HAVE A GREAT WEEK -

Art, good going. You really pulled the goverment-loving, people-hating, liberals out of the woodworks. I wonder what all of these OWS lovers are doing sitting at home. SURELY, they could change the world - as Alan PUgh wrote - if they would get off of their fancy and go sit in the park.

Danny from California is blaming GOP for CA's troubles. That's rich, and I don't mean with money.

Persevere obviously approves of alternative lifestyles. The one he hopes for this country will never fly.

ctosn1980, I mean keep the boot of the head as in keeping someone down or not allowing them to surface for air. Thank you for your concern about my literary skills, but I think I expound correctly. Most people get strangled with hands, not so many with boots. I don't want your money. Your vast fortune is safe. I'd just like for people like the Kochs who won the genetic lottery and had their daddy hand them a business to stick to running that business and quit using their hard inherited money to buy politicians.

Patrick, I don't have time to tell you all the reasons for which I support the OWS, because I have to go to work now.

Yes, and my, my, there sure are a number of posters very, very upset at all this unseemly DEMOCRACY going on, aren't they? Got to wonder what those channeling Richard Nixon are so darn afraid of? Would the world really fall apart if the capital gains taxes were adjusted slightly down again?? Would the earth stop rotating if college became just slightly more affordable? Would the stars stop aligning if boards became a bit more pressured to insist their corporate officers have some level of performance before issuing golden parachutes, and that performance not just be measured in terms of jobs cut? Judging by the hyperventilating, I guess the one percent has convinced more than a few others that the answers are yes. For the rest of us, Good for you OWS! You're changing the conversation!

ImOutOfHere

You can ignore OWS by claiming they are all hippies, but the GOP is going to get a rude awakening when they realize that Joe Blow agrees with these people.

Debt free,

You are correct that there is a lot wrong with this country. Primarily it's the rising tide of socialism brought on by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, the OWS lunatics and people like yourself.

So in 20 years and the USA is bankrupt, I'm guessing you'll be out there throwing rocks at the police because the nanny state has run out of rich people to steal from and your beloved entitlement programs are out of other peoples money.

Jefferson,

Unfortunately the US is already broke and OWS is now taking care of throwing rocks and incindiary devices at the police a la Greece.

Too bad all they seem to want, as you point out, is more of what made us broke with a little socialism on the side.

hey reggie , where are your laws againt treason and terrorism, did you lay them at your masters feet as he destroyed so many of your countrymen, what were you doing kneeling in front of him anyhow ?????

Every once in a while my State Representative will conduct a telephone town hall where she patches in hundreds of constituents and goes through them one by one with all of us listening in. I heard pitiful stories about what people are going through today. Time after time individual constituents told her that they would NOT vote for her again. This is in Texas...she's a Republican. She cut my call short when I told her I thought the Republican/TP were acting treasonous among many other things.

Middle America understands. Send all your Republican friends a break down of the wealth in America. I did and MANY of them are changing their minds about their party!

************************************************************************************

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.

In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity.

The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America.

Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

And the rate of increase is even higher for the very richest of the rich: the top 400 income earners in the United States. According to another analysis by Johnston (2010a), the average income of the top 400 tripled during the Clinton Administration and doubled during the first seven years of the Bush Administration. So by 2007, the top 400 averaged $344.8 million per person, up 31% from an average of $263.3 million just one year earlier.

How are these huge gains possible for the top 400? It's due to cuts in the tax rates on capital gains and dividends, which were down to a mere 15% in 2007 thanks to the tax cuts proposed by the Bush Administration and passed by Congress in 2003.

Since almost 75% of the income for the top 400 comes from capital gains and dividends, it's not hard to see why tax cuts on income sources available to only a tiny percent of Americans mattered greatly for the high-earning few.

(dividends and capital gains are only taxed at a rate of 15%; there's no tax on the interest earned from state and municipal bonds; and 20% of the tax deductions taken for dependent children actually go to people earning over $100,000 a year).

Overall, the effective tax rate on high incomes fell by 7% during the Clinton presidency and 6% in the Bush era, so the top 400 had a tax rate of 20% or less in 2007, far lower than the marginal tax rate of 35% that the highest income earners (over $372,650) supposedly pay.

The top 5% own 72% of all the wealth...why aren't they paying 72% of the taxes

It is fully and completely the result of millions of Americans voting against their own best interests since 1980. It is NOT about handouts, but about the incremental abandonment of a progressive tax structure. There is simply not enough income or assets in the lower 80% of America to fund the Insane Empire we have allowed to be created.

It is utterly futile to try to get through to these same voting fools, who seem willing to all but die to promote and advance the feudal elite who now run the country.

Debtfree... my husband (moderate repub) and I (moderate dem) are both full supporters of the Occupy movement and are observing (and thrilled) at how fast this is growing. This is just the beginning, those who think it will go away anytime soon are delusional. We're in our mid and early 50's, have no debt other than our mortgage (which hopefully will paid off next summer)... he's a 33 year veteran teacher (in Ohio, God help us!) and I work for a government contractor in the healthcare segment. Of course teachers are under incredible attack;and as for my job, the contracts are all being rebid with protests of contract awards, so if I have a job at this time next year it will be very surprising... but I've known this was coming for years so was always trying to save as much as possible just in case. And for all the saving, not going out to dinner, few vacations or luxuries all I got for it was my 401K and all other investments stolen. My daughters did as I hoped and both have college degrees and entirely too much student loan debt, but they're chipping away at getting it paid off even if not working in their desired fields. OWS is NOT going to go away... it's going to continue to grow by leaps and bounds. As for the teabaggers and the Koch Suckers... what a supremely selfish, unethical, immoral, idiotic mindset. Don't they have any relatives and/or friends who have been affected adversely in the past few years? Guess they only care about themselves and screw everyone else!

I keep trying Disgusted. Hang in there! I have days of utter despair on what it'll take for these fools to understand. But somehow my soul knows I need to keep coming back in here and keep trying. It's an endless job.

Well said Glimmer!

Jeffersonwasright

I agree!!!!!!!

I agree and, I think Mellow Fellow has it wrong. These people are just pointing out the injustices that our flawed system has created for the middle class.

You go Glimmer girl!

Glimmmer and Rico,
I would like to refer you to an article that may be enlightening to you both, and as you read make sure you follow the links in the article. The problem with the OWS is that they aren't protesting against the right people. The only way for things to improve is for there to be less government involvement in all aspects of our lives. I would never presume to be able to tell you what are the best financial decisions for your family and I sure don't want you or our government to have more power in telling me what to do. OWS protesters who were against the bailouts, that would include me, should be in front of Congress, the White House, the Treasury, and the Federal Reserve. Those who are protesting the student loan problems should be marching on their own colleges and universities to demand why the cost of college has risen 100% in 20 years. Lastly I would say that life is not a zero sum game as so many on the left believe. Just because someone else has more doesn't mean I have less. My life is exponentially better than my relatives were in 1911 when income disparity was better. What we need are leaders that bring us together and not pit us against each other as our leaders have done for the last 12 years. That gives the few, the government, the power and not us as individuals.

The link is:

Do you think an NFL football game or NBA basketball game would play honestly without umpires and officials? When the objective is to win and make money, players would do anything to take another player out. This is what's going on in Corporate America. This is why people lost jobs, incomes, savings, homes. Yeah, that deregulation things really works.

Reggie: what poll was that (and let me guess, you heard it on FOX??) OWS now enjoys close to 70% of support. I'd call that very wide indeed. Common sense, really. The 'let them eat cake' party is not going to do itself any good at all arguing that most Americans just don't know what is in their own goods by arguing for "fairness". Yeah. Look around the world. Eventually...that argument never works.

Blue Burner,

Do the people who invested with their own money or bought houses they can't afford deserve any of the blame in the melt down. The greed of the investors played a part also. You also have the right not to take advantage of the corporate system, don't buy anything or support any corporation. Also if laws were broken why hasn't the justice department brought any cases against these banks in the last 3 years again. I don't blame criminals for not turning themselves in I blame the people in charge for not filing charges if laws were broken.

AP,

the most recent Quinnipiach (spelling ?) poll showed support at 30% and against at 39%. I think is attributed to the fact that when people hear the valid complaints and then see where the people are protesting they understand OWS are not protestting against the right people, see my post above. Just look at the example of the $5 fee at BOA. People voted with their money by moving away from the bank and the bank stopped the practice. Capitalism at work. If you don't like the way someone does business don't do business with them.

There a right way to protest an a wrong way the Tea-Party showed the right way, unfortunately the (Day of Rage) OWS is the wrong way, the Tea-Party Protest then show it at the ballet box the OWS well getting funded by all the left wing group that want the Republic of the United States an it's Constitution, dismantle for the New World Order an the Progressive Liberal Utopia. You all forget history as the country failed to Communist China or Russia they kill all judges, police,military,teachers,politcial personnel, an all you comrades who turn or help there cause were taken out to the country they came back you dint why you ask if you can turn on your country sooner or later you will turn on them so watch what you wish for. the Progressive Liberal Pandora box is open Know History the Real History not this Progressive Liberal History. good day

CBS poll shows 43% agree with OWS, 27% against. A new york state poll was even more dramatic. the Republican backlash is starting, and the disinformation campaign is getting off the ground. There are attempts to portray the movement as filled with 'anarchists' and to try and find links to the White House (watch FOX, Anne Coulter if you can take her...George Will) --that's not been working very well yet... lately, they're on a new tact--just rewrite history. The OWS supposedly is aiming at all the wrong people...they say--supposedly Wall Street are the GOOD guys just doing what they always do, making lots of money legitimately...it's supposedly Democrats in Congress who are your real enemies because they wanted more people to have home loans and brow beat the banks into writing all kinds of worthless mortgages agains their collective will . Yeah. You ready for that one? Anyone ready to buy that worthless bridge to nowhere???

arhillbilly...Yep...the TP showed protests correctly...you mean like when Cantor not 2 weeks ago stated publicly into a microphone "We intend to keep the 1% at the top"? Gee and I can't imagine why he'd make a statement like that considering who their two billionaire benefactors are pulling all the chains.

Ap,

The poll I sited was done two weeks later at the end of October. The trend is not favorable to the movement. The questions were also quite different. The CBS poll was "Do you agree with the views of OWS?" If I were answering that I would have to say yes, because I agree with some of their views (bailouts), but don't agree with their solutions. The Quinipiach poll question was "Do you have a favorable,unfavorable,or other view of the OWS movement?" that is a persons over all view 7 weeks after it started. The only groups that had favorable opinions were 18-34, democrats, and minorities. Even when broken down by income all the groups had unfavorable opinions. What I am saying is we should be coming together to protest and change the real causes of the problem and the solutions I have seen coming from OWS all over the country are not impowering to the individual but to the government that allowed this to happen.

Reggie Harbor

Last poll, 34% of America agrees with you.

Just stay close to the large lefty controlled cities, you come out into the heartland, tearing things up, we have castle laws.

Again with the castle laws Reggie?? How many times do you have to hear that your castle laws aren't worth a fiddlers crap UNTIL the protesters come into your living room! Do you really think that every major city in the nation is a "lefty controlled" as you put it??? The Occupy Movement is in every major city in the nation! So you are saying that Houston, Dallas, and Austin are lefty controlled then! How uninformed are you? ...and you refer to yourself as a Texan? sheesh

Anyone can peacefully protest on the public sidewalks or streets all around your house as long as they please! IT IS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! As long as they stay peaceful and on public property there is NOTHING you or anyone else can do to stop them.

Your castle laws are useless on public property! Just as your idle threats are meaningless in the real world.

pie in the sky demands?

1) get rid of the Bush era tax cuts

2) regulate wall street

3) get rid of Citizens United

4) impose a small financial transaction tax

These are all completely concrete. Not pie in the sky dreams. In fact most of them are just calls to reverse things that have happened recently.

Impose a small financial transaction tax? So, you want to pay to have access to a bank, to save money, to write a check, to do any form of banking. Guess you must have voted for Obama, he's great for tossing in lots of fees and taxes into areas hitherto free of said intrusions. As to the Bush era tax cuts, they are slated to go soon so not only will you pay higher taxes (if you are in the group that actually pays taxes) but get ready to pay the government every time you deposit a check in your bank. Yup, you must really want to give your (or others) money to the government so they can support their lobbyist friends and campaign supporters.

mygirl

No you misunderstand what the tax is. Do a little research. One proposed bill is to tax 3 cents for every $100 in trading of stocks, bonds, puts, forward contracts and various derivatives. So a trader buying $100,000 of stock would pay $30 to purchase the shares. Such a small tax would likely have a minor impact on 401(k) and mutual fund trading, which emphasizes holding securities for longer periods of time. Pension funds are also tax-free, it's worth noting, while mutual funds are tax-deferred.

And yes I pay income tax and I'm proud of it. But I do not see what that has to do with anything.

smt: My bad, I thought you were referring to Rep. Fattah's "Debt Free America' better known as the 'Transform America Transaction Fee." That is a bill introduced to tax transactions, individual banking transactions. My apologies.

smt,

Let me ask you, who actually pays this new tax? If you theorize that it will be the institutional investor, you clearly need to have a basic lesson in how a business functions.

While the large institution that holds the 401k may front the money at the time of the actual transaction, the individual investor in the 401k plan or other similar plan will be the one who ultimately pays the bill. While the individual tab may be small, the aggregate cost over a lifetime of investing would be substantial. And, why would it be large? Perhaps a lesson in mutual fund management is in order.

You see, while Joe investor may buy shares of XYZ mutual fund today and hold them until they retire, the actual mutual fund does not hold stocks or other securities in the same way. Mutual funds are continuously selling and purchasing shares of differing securities to maintain the growth of the fund to make money for both the individual investor and the fund itself. This means that the mutual fund itself would continuously incur costs associated with this new tax and will be transfer those costs to Joe investor in one way or another. This menas that Joe investor is ultimately on the hook for your new tax and it he would be far better off if government learned to live within its means rather than learning how to create a new tax.

In other words the rich will get richer no matter what we do or don't do...

I like someone who can say I'm sorry and admit they were wrong. Thanks MYGIRL.

The problem with the winner take all "Haves" in this country is that their "winner take all" attitudes are divisive, anti-social and unsustainable. When a winner wins, that's it. There isn't a continuing stream of cash coming from other individuals. So what the American Aristocracy wants is to continue to "Have" even if it means only they win and no one else ever does.

The problem with that is once 1% of the population begin to "take all", the drain on the rest of the country become all too clear. This is a society. The Haves like to say that anyone can be in that 1%. Oh really? With the present 1% helping themselves to it "all"?

The Haves don't want to pay taxes because it means parting with THEIR money. The oxymoron occurs when the Haves start to help themselves remain 1% by helping themselves to ALL of the cash from everyone else.

The Haves can invest their own money. They'd rather invest everyone else's and collect fat profits. The Haves can operate a business without help from individual taxpayers disadvantaged by the Winner Take All mentalities. They refuse to do that. They not only don't want to pay taxes but they want free channeling of everyone else's hard earned money to use for their businesses and their investment addictions.

When the Haves refuse to see reason, it's time to force them to. The Have Nots cannot go forward with any hope of a future so long as the Winner Takes All mentalities keep taking more than their share. So long as they refuse to do more than point and delegate to foreign cheap labor that fattens their bank accounts.

Blowback is a bitch. The Haves need to get over themselves before they suffer the same blowback as every other country where bourgeois attitudes led to revolt.

What nonsense. We are a country FOUNDED on protests. We are a country defined what we didn't want to be (under the crown) and what we wanted to be (a nation with a law based democracy incorporating some very high ideals of freedom).

Mygirl: You've never heard of how credit unions work? You've never heard of sales taxes? Your world would fall apart if the capital gains tax was rolled back to where it was just a few years ago? These are what, commie, socialist ideas to you? No wonder you're feeling so confused.

AP that's the cry of the Haves in this country. "Wealth redistribution" to them means that any dime they pay toward taxes for their business or obscenely personal income is wealth redistribution. They simply do not intend to pay their fair share. They know going in that a higher income means higher taxes. Well they don't want to pay their fair share of taxes based on their higher incomes.

Yet, the minute they make stupid financial decisions, they run to taxpayers to bail them out. How is that NOT wealth redistribution from bottom to top?

ewent: I've had more than a few of my fellow very well off business colleagues ask me during the election, how I could possibly support Obama. My reply was that even though my guess was I would be voting against my own FINANCIAL interests by supporting him, it was the right thing to do for my COUNTRY. I did not want a recovery that only benefitted those who survived the recession in the best shape because of years of tax cuts for the rich by Bush (and yes Clinton too). Not all of us who profited are unaware of the cost.

AP...I agree that not all should be placed in the same pigeon hole. But, let's face it. Unless something is done very soon to reduce the greed and the wealth addiction, this country will be in the trash within half a decade.

No country can remove 9 million people from jobs without massive implications. For me personally, it's a matter of equality. No employer in this country needs to earn 425% more than his lowest paid employee. These CEOs take more than 50% from working capital. Then, they beg tax breaks from those they've downsized, outsourced and offshored. How fair is that?

Most of us know for certain that the plan among the biggest business men was to get as much as they can while they can even if it trashes the entire country. Sorry, that's not a democracy. Now, Americans of the middle class and working poor are so fed up, the first billionaire who dares beg another tax credit places himself in a hugely compromising situation among the masses and he knows it.

Wealth isn't an entitlement. To men who earn it without help from employees, consumers and taxpayers, God Bless. To those who are stiffing consumers with their price gouging, stiffing employees by dumping back the costs of benefits and stagnating their salaries and then turning around and demanding more business tax exemptions and personal income tax breaks from the very people they stiffed is about as reprehensible as it needs to get. Enough is enough.

You've got wealth people who aren't satisfied living on a million a year. When does it end? When they make it to First Trillionaire Wannabee Club?

Ewent,

Unless something is done very soon to reduce the greed and the wealth addiction, this country will be in the trash within half a decade.

Boy you said a mouthful there.

So what you're saying is that greed and wealth addiction is bad if a person is trying to keep their own money. But, the greed and wealth addiction that you, Obama and the socialist democrats have for other people's money is perfectly acceptable.

I'm guessing that Herman Cain's alleged sexual harassment claims by anonymous victims is a real problem for you, but Bill Clinton's confirmed sexual liasions, infidelity and rape were no big deal, right?

Why do you liberals want to push this country to socialism when the countries where it has been tried are facing bankruptcy?

Smaller Government + Lower Taxes = More Freedom + Prosperity for All.

" The policies of the '80's, adopted by Ronald Reagan, created great inequity among the classes".......No truer words have ever been spoken.

Check the Scandinavian countries (Socialists) They are doing great. As for Greek as socialist.. the people rioting perceive that their government abandoned their socialist principles. If the government stuck to socialist principles, the people would have better quality of life.

i was once proud of my country, my whole family was too, 4 generations of veterans.....now i'm willing to oust this government who is not what my family believes in

So do I, Master Link. A recognition of the Constitutional right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." The right of every American to have a right to his life, to live his life in freedom so he/she may pursue personal happiness. But, NOT at the point of a gun when some group revolts, takes control.

Then get rid of Obummer. Mickey Mouse,Donald Duck-ANYONE BUT OBUMMER!!!!! Get rid of socialisim in America. Get rid of Obummercare.Let the free market work. Go take some personal responsibility. Establish your independence. Dont go to the govt. for every little thing in life. Get a clue. Keep a clue. Get a job. Keep that job. Dont have kids you cant pay for. Stay out of jail! Stop the of classwarfare. Invest in your future. Easy enough? But not for the libs or the establishment Repubs. I did all this and am NOT part of the 99%. Nor am I part of the 1% either. Ive got a pretty good life.

creedmoor: and your freedoms were just fine under the "mission accomplished" guy who lied about the reason to start not one, but two wars? It's now "class warfare" when the middle class starts fighting back against the giveaways to the top 1% who don't need it..and you claim they got there on the "free market" without the massive giveaways, deregulation and priviledges?? You'd be fine with the guys who want to rip the rug out from under the middle class by dismantling social security and medicare? Easy enough? Yeah, in your world, I can just imagine how black and white things are.

creedmoor...Is socialism that fine art honed by Big Businesses wherein they make the poor poorer by dumping the costs of their businesses on taxpayers? Why does Big Oil need a tax subsidy to find oil? Isn't that part of the funding that should come from those obscene profits these Big Business Welfare frauds extract from other Americans?

Or...how about this socialism? Big Pharma gets tax subsidies for R&D. Then the government hands them the full rights to licensing instead of leasing the rights. Then Big Pharma turns on the very people who provide the taxes for their R&D and gouges the hell out of the drugs we paid them to manufacture in the first place.

Don't talk the right wing talk about welfare until you address Corporate Welfare. At least, welfare we are all taxed for goes toward helping people who are down and out. Not people who are UP and Upper.

Most of the corporations in China are American. There are interesting parallels between US corporations and the East India Trading Company which grew so huge and powerful that it became, in essence, the government. There has been so much interbreeding that it is difficult to really know who is who and what nation the company calls home (most global corporations are indeed global, their reach and influence has long left the building that is known as America)

Anyone that relies on government to force their special interest demands on the 99 should be worried. The 99 are learning how to change things without government.

The lies of government - the fairy tales of the 1% are becoming irrelevant ...

the movement did NOT start out with unions....try reading ALL the articles published about the OWS crowd, not just tidbits of propaganda you hear on faux news or from the likes of demonic Ann Coulter. Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly. Get your facts straight before you join in the misinformation center.

Janet's right, I am a union member and it is just recently that unions are showing support for the Occupy movement. Go OWS be strong.

And the interesting thing about the East India Company other than it was the first corporation was that they were shipping opium from Afghanistan. That is how Elizabeth l and the Rothschild's made their money.

What's that old adage....the more things change the more they stay the same :(

Sparky, the same thing could be said about the tea party and the GOP. They are backed by the Koch brothers. They want no government involvement and no regulation at all so they can repeat 2008 all over again. 2008 was a very good year if your last name happened to be Koch or Rothschild. Capitalism doesn't work without competition and neither do free markets. We have lost that balance over the past 20 or so years and OWS is actually fulfilling the government's role to bring that equilibrium back on our behalf (since our government is at a standstill). The Chamber of Commerce has been infiltrated and is effectively run by corporations. And so is the Fed and even Obama's own administration. What the hell was Larry Summers doing there? He is the poster child of corporate racketeering cloaked under the badge of academia. What is Geithner doing there? Does anyone think that Timothy Geithner will back a policy that has not been vetted and approved by corporate America? People who think that this country will sit idle and watch them dismantle our way of life are indeed crazy. How and when will this end, no one really knows. But I'm willing to bet everything I have that corporations will lose this war on the middle class that ultimately has the final say at the ballot box. If people really get up and go to vote, the tea party and the Koch brothers won't know what hit them. Eventually, a group of reasonable people will find its way to Washington and corporate conglomerates will be taken down. Exxon and similar companies will either provide energy and other critical resources at reasonable prices that allow this country to grow again or they will be broken up just like ATT was decades ago. OWS is just the tip of the iceberg.

You can't be 99% of the population who doesn't agree with the decisions made (by a democrat)!!

Because We are in a democracy!!!!

So get your facts straight, your whole movement doesn't even reflect 40%.

Oh yes you can. You still don't get what this is about? This is not Republican vs. Democrat or liberal vs. conservative. This is "have everything and grab more" vs. "used to have something". Therefore, 99% vs. 1% is a perfect ratio. I don't know what and how much you have. However, I'm 100% certain that if some day David Koch were to take it away, you too would be sleeping in that tent on Wall Street with the rest of OWS folks. Not because you want to, because you have to.

If these OWS peoplehad any brains thay would be joining the Tea partiers. So much ignorance in this country.

Janet,

I have been watching since this movement started. And while unions may not have been involved in the first few days, organizations like moveon.org which is funded by George Soros certainly were. That is also widely reported and accurate according to the organizations themselves. And, where exactly are the allegiances of those organizations? Firmly in the pocket of the liberal left establishment.

And, I guess you caught me Janet. I never watch any news or read any articles unless they come from Fox. After all, I'm reading an article posted on MSN and I'm commenting on their message boards. Guess you didn't read my other posts so you don't realize that I've commented on the contents of the article as well as the contents of the video that's attached to it. But, please keep beleiving that anyone who has an opposing view to yours lacks knowledge. I'm sure it gives you some kind of warm fuzzy to throw out baseless slander without a hint of ability to contradict the person you are disparaging.

Me,

There is no doubt that Republican candidates are backed, in many instances, by people like the Kock brothers. That is no different than George Soros backing Dem candidates. The question is, can you show that the Tea Party is in any way backed by these folks? ANd the problem for liberals or whoever you want to proclaim yourselves to be is that you can't. The Tea Party is an actual independent movement that has embraced the Republican party as a way to move an agenda of smaller government and less taxation.

As far as regulations go; there were quite a number of regulations in place back in 2008 and even before that. They didn't stop the collapse that occurred in 2008. In fact they enhanced. The regulations dictated that money could be dumped into the system at very low cost and the banks were effectively required to dole out that money to every Tom, Dick and Jane that came through the door. The risk was offset by the fact that the risk could be almost instantly sold to the government because F&F were required to back the loans. This lead to many risky practicves which did not exist prior to the CRA and still exist because CRA still exists. They may be slightly less prevelant than they were before, but until we get back to fundamentals of people actually having down payments to buy property and the banks being free to tell people that, "You have no way to pay this so we're not lending it to you" without the threat of government interference this will never end.

As far as Geithner, about the only person that sees him as qualified to run anything other than a game of Monopoly - using play money - is Obama and liberals. If that is the type of person you want dishing out monetary policy, then everyone should do exactly what you seem to propose and go out and vote Democrat and vote for Obama. After all, Obama and Democrats actually do take more money from the big firms on Wall Street than the Republicans. But, I'm betting you haven't looked far enough into the information that is available to realize that.

P.S. When this movement started it had 59% support from the population of this country. A majority but certainly not 99%. In the latest poll, eight weeks from the beginning and six or so from the last poll, that support has dropped to something like 39%.

Sparky....Truth time. Who made those decisions on those high risk investments? Me? You? Or those with the biggest titles at the top? Who decided to play fast and loose the minute Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley ganged up on Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns? Who benefitted most from that?

Now, you have Bank of America trying to dump $55 trillion ...yes...trillion of the Merrill Lynch unfunded derivatives on depositors and smaller retail banks. All while BOA decided to purchase hoping for a one time slam bang profit until the Meltdown in 2008 put an end to that vicarious dream.

How about some of that right wing "personal responsiblity"? How about some of that right wing "make better choices" routine the righties love to spout at everyone but themselves?

Or are we to believe those with the most power should be least accountability for the consequences of their chief decision making?

33,000 Enron employees played good little workers while Lay and Skilling made off with billions of their 401K funds only Lay and Skilling had ultimate control over. That's more BS than a long horn creates in a year.

Sparkie, my advice to you is to educate yourself before making such ridiculous statements. You are so blinded by your ideology you don't even realize what you are saying. The tea party was started by two Republican political operatives after Obama was elected and immediately embraced by Dick Armey (if you don't know who he is, look him up). They were backed by the Koch brothers and similar ideologues who practically lost their minds when they saw Obama in the White House. They have been fighting their war ever since. Birth certificate, Kenyan Muslim, communist, socialist... All in an effort to discredit, delegitimize and basically marginalize the President. That is pretty much all anyone needs to know about the tea party.

The reality Republicans don't like to mention is the huge disparity today between rich and poor. It is nearly on a level with the disparity that occurred shortly before the Great Depression. The only way to force Republicans to face the disparity they allowed to happen with their huge business and income tax breaks is to keep it in their faces and not relent for a single minute.

But the main thrust of protests are valid because if the present disparity continues for another 5 years, this country will not survive. Does anyone actually for a single minute believe that those who refuse to live on less will be ready to forfeit all they've filched to save their country?

The other reality is that Americans have the power to stop this greed. All it takes is rethinking your priorities, protecting your financial stability even if it means cutting off access to Big Business any way you can. Make one difference today. Another tomorrow and they add up. The Middle Class has as much right to protect itself as the rich have been doing.

Look homeward angels. Buy and patronize small businesses only. For several reasons, it benefits your small business community, strengthens your municipality, reduces your local tax burdens and preserves the most reliable source of jobs this country has ever had.

When anything grows so big it becomes a fiery dragon ready to consume anything and everything in its path, it's time to slay those dragons. Or...at best starve them to death.

@ewent -- Do not be sucked into defending a failed system. Government will not change anything - the 1% will not change anything. But you can ...

Buy local - invest local - support your neighbors, support your community. Buy local grown produce, when you can. Shop at locally owned stores as much as you can. Buy used from local businesses when it is practical. Do not dispose of the broken items - have them repaired locally if you can. Search for Made in America labels. Donate to local charities first. Do your banking at local banks. Invest in local businesses, if you can.

The system is broken. The 99 are learning to cope with that. It will take time and effort. It will require some sacrifices.

Ignore the 1% ...

Instead of worrying about the money, take a moment and watch the ad. Think about what is being said. I know you're used to automatically hating anything not Tea Party-endorsed, but really, try and THINK about the message, not who is paying for it.

If it's billionaires paying for it, they are fair and noble enough to be fighting against personal interest, like Buffett and Soros do. People paying for it don't have a horse in this race, except the country's future. But who cares? Think about what is being said. You are the 99%.

Pleaaseee, do some research into your egalitarian and benevolent billionaires. Soros and Buffet are proponents of Agenda 21. Go research that as well, you might not like them so much after the research. Go to the UN site and type in Agenda 21.

Wow, mygirl1, black helicopters and scary government much?

It's all Illuminati/John Birch/End of Days paranoid crap in the end ...it's what you come up with when you can't make sense of the world and don't want to take personal responsibility for the bad stuff in it. Even their gods don't take responsibility for the evil part. Its the old Ostrich trick.

MYGIRL thanks for the heads up on Agenda 21. The little I've read seems conflicting to me. In some places it reads Soros/Buffet vs Koch/Perot/Bush and in other places it reads that they are all in it together. I don't get the general cast of actors.

That being said everyone in here can pooh pooh the idea of a global universe (NWO) but too much is happening to say it isn't true. Ever wonder why the power people in the States aren't doing anything about immigration? Every wonder why unions with their pay and benefits are suddenly the bad guys? Ever wonder why we no longer have unbiased media? And the list goes on.....

I don't know if in the end this will all be a good thing or not. I know it's very different from what I've lived so far. I'm leaving it up to the young people of today who are going to have to live it to decide. Unfortunately most of them don't know it's happening. Meanwhile I will pledge MY allegiance to America....the one I grew up in. GO OCCUPY WALL STREET!

My family makes well under 20,000 a year and we'll be happy to send funds to OWS. We used to do ok before ill health cut the income and the insurance was cancelled. We live in daily fear that the pennies just won't stretch far enough and we'll lose the heat in the middle of winter. This is not what it is supposed to be like, we've always worked until a stroke fell my husband and 5 years later an accident at work fell me. What are we supposed to do, just lie down and die quietly because we are no longer able to be in the work force? Somehow that just does not seem like a good option to us and the millions like us.

The real impetus is to Crash, Baby, Crash for Wall Street addicts. Nothing they do on Wall Street today is "investing" in the truest vernacular. Not when every Ivy League school graduates 50% of their students to become financial wizards who can bet the last Wall Street bettor to the punch in less time than it takes to bat an eye.

So...the real goal of the 99% should be to let Wall Street crash on its ass. 2 bailouts only made them all the more arrogant to use as much of the public's money to increase their wealth.

These winners took all. Now, it's time to take it back. Let Wall Street crash. Let the rich bois know how it feels to be on the receiving end of the austerity for a change.

Yeah, like the rich are going to suffer in your crashed world. Yup, the only ones who suffer, as history proves, are the not really rich. Most of the truly rich benefit from the scenario you encourage. Think not? Do a little research on the Great Depression, think the truly rich suffered?

Rico: Agenda 21 has been around for awhile now. You're correct when you notice that the billionaires and high-powered politicans on either side are proponents of the Agenda. That is because they benefit by becoming the true masters. People are naive enough to believe that there isn't a cabal of very powerful people who manipulate economies, countries and create wars and crisis. The truly powerful benefit greatly from this. There is a movie on Youtube, Zeitgeist, that chronicles how it works. There is more to the story, of course, the creators of the Zeitgeist movie have their own agendas (who doesn't) but it is a good chronicle nontheless.

To the little non-believers, fine, in fact, keep burying your heads, you don't study history, you don't research and you are incapable of thinking beyond the script being fed to you on a daily basis. Think OWS is spontaneous and truly about getting changes made? Watch what is fixing to happen.

mygirl: yeah those wealthy billionaires are really great unless they do not identify with the 'let em eat cake' party, aren't they? Don't you just hate it when someone actually says the emperor has no clothes OUT LOUD...that maybe it's not ALL about just being smarter than everyone else and somewhat about having the power and influence to put your foot on the scale in your favor? How dare they speak out AND have benefitted from the policies they think are ridiculously unfair? Don't you just hate it when someone shows humanity and it DOESN'T benefit them?

Yeah, amusing how they get old and all of a sudden become philanthropic. You really think they give a good rat's A$$ about you? About society in general? They may be coming to the end of their lives and suddenly feel a need to make amends, then again, most (but not all) of the great philanthropic institutions were created AFTER the creators raped and pillaged their way to the top. Look at Rockfeller. Then there is the opportunity to get some great tax breaks and wield power, once again a bit of hubris rears its little head. Why have all this wealth and power and let it go? Just because you're dead doesn't mean you can't continue your power plays, why do you think they used to build those massive monuments to themselves? Today's version creates foundations to dole out the money, generally to those following the founder's philosphies. An interesting attempt at achieving immortality.

mygirl...You are obviously not old enough to have had Great Depression parents as I had. Do you know what happened to cause that Great Depression? Hoover, a Republican (gee no surprise there, no difference than today either), ignored all the unmitigated, free-for-all speculation that was based on every dime of life savings of other people's money.

Crash, Baby, Crash is what's going to happen again. Because rich asses don't think there are any limits to their investment gambling addictions. That's also what rich asses in 1929 thought, my girl.

The difference is that in those days, no bailouts from taxpayers were allowed.

So men jumped out of their hotchas skyscaper offices rather than face the shame of their greed. Great Depression parents all blamed Hoover for his refusing to protect their life savings, their homes and their properties. That's how the FDIC and Social Security came about.

Obviously, this is history right wingers would rather pretend, as they do with Bush Era BS, it didn't happen.

Oh no? If the middle class and working poor continue to take the hit while the rich keep getting richer, who's going to buy their foreign cheap labor imported crappola? You?

mygirl: you might want to read up on that guy you love to hate (no, not the half black one...the old, rich white one). You'd be interested to learn that Warren Buffet, one of the smarter business minds of this time, is actually a guy who lives his beliefs (i.e. makes his kids work for their money, and is not giving his money away rather than leaving them huge inheritances). Yeah. I'll stake my money on the guy who still lives in that simple ranch house. (and no, that didn't happen "suddenly" when he got old). There are many more, of which you are probably much more familiar, who expect to take it all with them when they go. Others simply remember where they came from and can remember what makes us human. Shocking. Isn't it?

Ewent, you don't know what you're talking about, and if great depression parents blamed Hoover for not protecting their assets, then they didn't know what they were talking about either. Do you even know anything about Hoover or what he did? I'm thinking you do not.

Hoover was born in Iowa. His father was a blacksmith and farm store owner. He became an orphan at 9 yrs old and lived with many different relatives. He didn't finish high school, but took night classes and later went to the brand new university, Stanford, where first year students didn't have to pay tuition. He got a degree in geology.

Beginning of WWI Hoover helped Americans get back to the States from Europe. He had 500 volunteers help him.

Then he turned his attention to Belgium after being invaded by Germany. He was chairman of the Commission for Relief in Belgium. He worked with a Belgium group to feed the whole nation for the entire war. They brought in tons and tons of food, and made sure the German army didn't intercept it.
He then worked in London helping to feed 9 million war victims.

In 1917 Woodrow Wilson appointed Hoover as head of the U.S. Food Administration. Hoover kept feeding starving Europeans, including Eastern European countries, after the war.

Hoover was later appointed to secretary of Commerce by Warren G. Harding. "He demanded from Harding, and received, authority to help coordinate economic affairs throughout the government. He created many sub-departments and committees, overseeing and regulating everything from manufacturing statistics, the census, and radio to air travel. In some instances, he "seized" control of responsibilities from other Cabinet departments when he deemed that they were not carrying out their responsibilities well." ...

"Many of Hoover's efforts as Commerce Secretary centered on the elimination of waste and the increase of efficiency in business and industry. This included reducing labor losses from trade disputes and seasonal fluctuations, reducing industrial losses from accident and injury, and reducing the amount of crude oil spilled during extraction and shipping. One major achievement was to promote progressive ideals in the areas of the standardization of products and designs.

His "Own Your Own Home" campaign was a collaboration to promote ownership of single-family dwellings, with groups such as the Better Houses in America movement, the Architects' Small House Service Bureau, and the Home Modernizing Bureau. He worked with bankers and the savings and loan industry to promote the new long-term home mortgage, which dramatically stimulated home construction."

"The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 broke the banks and levees of the lower Mississippi River in early 1927, resulting in flooding of millions of acres and leaving one and a half million people displaced from their homes. ... With a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation, Hoover set up health units to work in the flooded regions for a year. These workers stamped out malaria, pellagra, and typhoid fever from many areas. ...The great victory of his relief work, he stressed, was not that the government rushed in and provided all assistance; it was that much of the assistance available was provided by private citizens and organizations in response to his appeals. "I suppose I could have called in the Army to help," he said, "but why should I, when I only had to call upon Main Street." "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

However Hoover didn't do so great a job at making sure African-Americans didn't get taken advantage of and abused during the relief effort in Mississippi.

In 1928 Hoover was elected President.

This is getting long, so I'll continue in another post.

Ten Months after Hoover was inaugurated the Stock Market crashed. Here's what Hoover did to try and help the economy and the people. He believed in humanitarian aide and volunteerism. I think he was hoping the American people would do much to help each other, but he did implement gov. policies. In 1929 Hoover had 500,000 Mexicans sent back to Mexico. This continued under Roosevelt till 1937. This was to open more jobs for Americans and "relief of municipal aid services". In 1930 Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. This was put on imports, in hopes of getting Americans to buy American made products, to bring in revenue to the Gov and to help farmers. Only problem was other countries ended raising the tariffs on American goods imported into their country. "Hoover in 1931 urged the major banks in the country to form a consortium known as the National Credit Corporation (NCC).^[46] ... Hoover encouraged NCC member banks to provide loans to smaller banks to prevent them from collapsing. The banks within the NCC were often reluctant to provide loans, usually requiring banks to provide their largest assets as collateral. It quickly became apparent that the NCC would be incapable of fixing the problems it was designed to solve, and it was replaced by the Reconstruction Finance Corporation."

Hoover approved the Federal Home Loan Bank Act, helping to build new homes and keeping down foreclosures. Hoover did a couple things in 1932. He got congress to pass the Revenue Act. "To pay for these and other government programs and to make up for revenue lost due to the Depression, Hoover agreed to roll back previous tax cuts his Administration had effected on upper incomes. In one of the largest tax increases in American history, the Revenue Act of 1932 raised income tax on the highest incomes from 25% to 63%. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15%. Also, a "check tax" was included that placed a 2-cent tax (over 30 cents in today's dollars) on all bank checks. Economists William D. Lastrapes and George Selgin,^[51] conclude that the check tax was "an important contributing factor to that period's severe monetary contraction." Hoover also encouraged Congress to investigate the New York Stock Exchange, and this pressure resulted in various reforms. ... The final attempt of the Hoover Administration to rescue the economy occurred in 1932 with the passage of the Emergency Relief and Construction Act, which authorized funds for public works programs and the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC). The RFC's initial goal was to provide government-secured loans to financial institutions, railroads and farmers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

The reason why so many people blame Hoover for the Depression, was because that was the political rhetoric at the time, which helped the Democrats win the Presidency in 1932 through FDR. Now what's interesting is what FDR did.

Kate: Good post. I am old enough to have parents and family who lived through the depression. My grandfather was a sharecropper. FDR's policies in keeping agricultural prices high is well chronicled in The Grapes of Wrath. FDR had all but two of my grandfather's milk cows killed, ditto hogs and other livestock. They didn't want prices to go lower, despite widespread hunger and starvation so they destroyed crops, killed livestock and buried them all. Talk about your price fixing.

If you were a farmer or someone who lived off the land, you hated FDR and his alphabet agencies, most of which exist today, progressive policies have been credited with PROLONGING the depression. Most historians and economists today agree that the only thing that got us out of the Great Depression was WWII.

Wickipedia, for a change, has a really good article on the worldwide Great Depression, the banking and Stock Market collapses and the chaos that resulted. If some truly hope for a repeat of those days, they had better think very carefully about what they're asking for.

BTW, Hoover did a lot of things during his 4 years. He had many public works projects going on, like the San Francisco Bay Bridge, The Hoover Dam, and the Los Angeles Aqueduct.

So what did Roosevelt do and who was FDR?

He came from a wealthy New York State family, and his maternal grandfather made most of his money in the China tea and opium trade. Being born to privilege, he went to Europe many times growing up. Roosevelt went to a boarding school in Mass. and then to Harvard. He then went to Columbia Law School and became a Corporate lawyer for a Wall Street firm and then became a Freemason in 1911. It seems FDR was a 1%-er. Both FDR and Hoover worked in the Wilson administration. FDR was New York Governor from 1929-1932, the same years Hoover was President. During the campaign, "Roosevelt denounced Hoover's failures to restore prosperity or even halt the downward slide, and he ridiculed Hoover's huge deficits. Roosevelt campaigned on the Democratic platform advocating "immediate and drastic reductions of all public expenditures," "abolishing useless commissions and offices, consolidating departments and bureaus, and eliminating extravagances" and for a "sound currency to be maintained at all hazards."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

So what did Roosevelt do as President. Well first thing he did was give himself more power. He got congress to pass the Emergency Banking Act. This made it legal for only banks approved by the Federal Reserve to do business in America.

In Title I, Section 2, gave, "the President the ability to declare a national emergency and have absolute control over the national finances and foreign exchange of the United States in the event of such an emergency."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Banking_Act

Roosevelt then signed the Glass-Steagall Act, creating the FDIC. This reminded me of Hoover's Reconstruction Finance Corporation, but expanded and more controlling. "Relief measures included the continuation of Hoover's major relief program for the unemployed under the new name, Federal Emergency Relief Administration. The most popular of all New Deal agencies – and Roosevelt's favorite – was the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), which hired 250,000 unemployed young men to work on rural local projects. ...

Roosevelt expanded a Hoover agency, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, making it a major source of financing for railroads and industry. Roosevelt made agricultural relief a high priority and set up the first Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). The AAA tried to force higher prices for commodities by paying farmers to take land out of crops and to cut herds.

In 1934 FDR created the Securities and Exchange Commission, to regulate Wall Street.

"After the 1934 Congressional elections, which gave Roosevelt large majorities in both houses, there was a fresh surge of New Deal legislation. These measures included the Works Progress Administration (WPA) which set up a national relief agency that employed two million family heads. At the height of WPA employment in 1938, unemployment was down from 20.6% in 1933 to only12.5% according to figures from Michael Darby.^[84] The Social Security Act, established Social Security and promised economic security for the elderly, the poor and the sick. Senator Robert Wagner wrote the Wagner Act, which officially became the National Labor Relations Act. The act established the federal rights of workers to organize unions, to engage in collective bargaining, and to take part in strikes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

So basically, FDR blamed everything on Hoover, the people being so distraught accepted the scape goat and voted for FDR. And what did FDR do? He basically renamed and expanded on Hoover's policies. Oh man. People are so easily led by the nose, it's scary.

Thanks MyGirl1. People have such a convoluted misunderstanding of history it's scary. I find it hilarious that FDR basically just expanded on Hoover's policies. He merely renamed agencies, and passed similar Acts with new names, so it looked like he was doing something different than Hoover. The main difference is that Hoover tried to get the people to work together, through volunteerism etc. I think this might have worked if he was given more time. What FDR did was basically give all the control over to the Federal Government, ie himself, and fed agencies.

Kate,

Thanks for the history lesson. I'm surprised you could still find accurate history out there, it seems those on the left haven't rewritten everything yet.

Kate, yer so smart! Maybe that's why I friend-ed you! I like to surround myself with people smarter than I. It makes the unknowing masses presume equality. LOL

What I can't understand is why you would bring truth to a Newsvine thread. Are you masochistic? Do you know what the ignorant masses will subject you to for such an offense? LOL

Why, Thank you. ;)

Dolores Bertrand...I so agree that Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Scalia all need to be impeached. These men are not Americans so much as American Aristocrats who bend over backward to do what the 1% demand. All anyone needs to do to prove they read political bias and not law is to see the cases they've had to judge over the last 10 years. Every single one that pitted the working class against a big business were approved in favor of Big Business as if Big Business is the sum total of government today.

The real goal of the OWS is to get Big Business out of government. When there's no separation of government and Big Business how will that not be a slam against labor? How will that not turn a government into a corporatocracy? Where in the Constitution did it ever state that Big Business should come before the people of this country?

This is the BS Big Business wants to reverse. Americans who can't find work are beginning to learn to make work on their own. This is always the first sign Big Business is too big to fail and will and too big to change and must.

DOLORES BERTRAND, you are either incredibly ignorant or totally delusional.

The precept of corporations (and unions) having rights as citizens is rooted in the premise of 'no taxation without representation' which was, of course, the underlying reason that the United States was formed. If you want to tax businesses, you cannot bar them from participating in the political process.

The FIRST Supreme Court ruling in support of this principle was in 1819. Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, numerous SCOTUS rulings reinforced the premise.

Despite the dishonesty of Obama and his cronies, the Citizens United ruling DID NOT give corporations (and unions) the right to spend money on political causes. They already had that right for many years. All it did was to prevent government from censoring political broadcasts in candidate elections when those broadcasts are funded by corporations or unions.

In Citizen United, the Supreme Court reversed the lower court, striking down those provisions of the McCain–Feingold Act that prohibited all corporations, both for-profit and not-for-profit, and unions from broadcasting “electioneering communications.

An "electioneering communication" was defined in McCain–Feingold as a broadcast, cable, or satellite communication that mentioned a candidate within 60 days of a general election or thirty days of a primary.

Dolores, please at least TRY to have a rudimentary grasp of your subject before ranting about it.

Uh Delores: I'm not unsympathetic but you do know lobbyists are constitutionally protected? (you know...the part about having the right to 'petition' your government? yeah...that's lobbying.) I think you can reverse Citizen United (an absurd twist of logic on Roberts' part) without doing that.

It's easy to see the stretching to cover Corporate Ass using the broadest interpretations of the Constitution. Did "taxation without representation" include Big Businesses when that was written? You bet not. It referred to taxation of those who physically were paying taxes. Next time you see a "corporation" handing the government cash or pulling the lever in a voting booth let me know.

Lobbyists like Abramoff are constitutionally protected? Then why did he go to jail? After all, the dear boi was only the Kingpin of K-Street.....that's protected too right? Is that why he and DeLay got asses in hot water over their lobbying of that Native American Casino which they filched the facts on? Why bother to check lobbyist facts? Why not just let Rove spew out as much sewage as he pleases and allow the Koch billionaires to dump as much money into campaigns until all of the voting rights of individual Americans have no real power?

This is what those protestors of OWS are protesting...skewering reinterpretations of the Constitution to levels far beyond the original intent. I wholeheartedly agree. Stretching the Constitution to suit wealth is as bad as colonists kissing King George's ass and not fighting for freedom.

I thought the Silent Majority under Nixon, had purchased the rights to the flag. Remember all those
American Flag stickers on all those Cadillacs?

LOL Gary. I grew up mostly in rural America. I can remember those "poor ranchers" driving to town in their cadillacs.

Nyny...Some Americans love the sight of that raggola Stars and Bars. That should also be upsetting. One country, one flag...just not in Dogpatch.

A Fox poll from Oct 7 found that 69% support OWS.

If a FOX poll stated that 69% support OWS, then the actual number is probably closer to 89%.

Well if you're the majority, then vote for Ron Paul or any other conspiracy lover and lunatic candidate next year. You have nothing to fear if you're 69%, heck it's the absolute majority.

In the meantime, give us a break. And in the poll we'll really see how many people there are in your movement claiming to speak for the People.

There are some things to change about the financial system, the European and American leaders agree, so what's the point of this movement really.

Ron Paul, exclusive of his Libertarian agenda has some good ideas. But everyone knows the minute a Libertarian gets a toehold in politics in a position of major power they revert right back to their Libertarian roots. Paul is only a Republican now because he knows his Libertarianism won't get him remotely close to the White House.

Libertarians these days are supported by some of the richest people in this country like Americans for Prosperity. They are for prosperity alright...for themselves and to hell with the rest of the country.

If a man earns his wealth without help from consumers, taxpayers or by stiffing his employees, God Bless. If he can't, his wealth is dependent on the rest of society to whom he owes big time debt.

That is absolutely not true. My own family survived the Great Depression thanks to Roosevelt and government sponsored jobs. This is not the Great Depression, but for millions it seems that way. If it weren't for unemployment and food stamps, this gathering that some here call a "fringe group" would be 100 times bigger. This is a wake up call for our government and it is their last chance to reign in these out of control corporations and special interest groups. Otherwise, in less than a year, you will have a French Revolution on American streets. You cannot take everything away from people and not expect them to revolt. The police can't do anything when the numbers swell up into the millions. Start putting people back to work or you will be very sorry. Americans will not live in tent cities so that Wall Street can make another billion. No way.

You're complaining because it's not BAD enough yet? And to follow your statements rather than to try to prevent us falling back into the Great Depression people should be shuffling their feet in soup kitchens and unemployment lines...? Do you know what brought this "country of opportunity and freedom" back from its knees? Government spending - first on the war machine then it invested heavily in (are you ready?) infrastructure. Yes, the government spent money to get the economy rolling again.

I cannot believe you received two "likes" for that blathering comment.

as promised you are so right, but the problem is that the GOP does not want the economy to recover and they are doing everything to make sure that happens. Like Mitch McConnell said their # 1 priority is to make sure Obama is a 1 term President. Instead moving this country forward they will continue to be the NO party.

Matt.....81 cents on the books for you.

Actually GOVERNMENT made the Great Depression WORSE by many years. I see in addition to Econ 101, History 101 fails the OWS crowd.

Matt: Love it or leave it didn't work very well for the republicans in the Nixon era either. I'd find a new argument.

photodude: you seem to not understand that the very point with the OWS crowd is to NOT wait for a "government fix". (psst...it's called democracy...little d)

Matt...They weren't occupying streets and parks? Google "Hoovervilles". Not only did they occupy streets, parks, roadsides and buildings vacated, millions of good, decent American lives were destroyed by the greed of Wall Street speculators too cowardly to stick around for their punishment.

Which by the way...when does Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BOA and the rest of the bailout thieves get their day in court?

Ever hear this old song? "We'd like to thank you, Herbert Hoover. For really showing us the way. We'd like to thank you Herbert Hoover, you made us what we are today...Today we're living in a shanty, Today we're scrounging for a meal. Today, we're stealing coal for fire. Who knew we could steal?

Matt- I think the Occupy Wall street people are being exceptionally grown up! I am so proud of them for realizing they can't just sit and play video games while our country is crashing down around them. They have studied and analyzed data, learned organizational skills, and then spend all day every day working- planning, strategizing, making signs, shooting videos- doing whatever it takes to get the rest of the country to wake up and become aware of what the mega corporations, the lobbyists, and Wall Street tycoons are doing that is about to cause the downfall of our country. I am a middle-class, middle-aged midwesterner who could tell by my own observations that something is drastically wrong with our economy, but I never bothered to really investigate and do research to find out WHY until the OWS group brought it to my attention. I am cheering them on. I would rather get the country headed in a new direction BEFORE we fall into a true depression again, rather than sitting back and waiting till it happens.

OCCUPY WALL STREET IS A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY! The police and WORKING citizens have to pay to clean up our mess. Go smoke dope and prey a job will happen. losers!

There is no Jobs Plan....have you seen it? Have you read it?? No...it is just an act so oBam to spend more money on NOTHING

rose

I guess by NOTHING you mean those roads you don't drive on?

The irony is that RIGHT WING states are the biggest recipients of the liberal "Handouts" you revile so much.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/fed-tax-sentspent-by-state/

Maybe if the red-state illiterati got an education the "liberal" states wouldn't have to bank roll them.

Have you not seen where California and Washington DC are on the Educational Testing Ranks, there states are right below Mississippi. So your Liberal bastions are not doing anything with all the education funding.

Throwing money at education does not solve the problem of bad teachers.

Reggie Harbor...Sorry, the Republicans raided the Transportation Fund for everything but transportation. Just like they refused since Gingrich to repair bridges. Human life to Republicans isn't as sacrosanct as protecting their wealthy cronies. Don't wonder why Republicans are the Wealth Protectionist Cartel.

by Steve Miracle
"The American Jobs Act calls for taxes on the wealthy to pay for education.
If republicans would quit blocking everything this country would be better off.
Obama 2012."

No, we wouldn't be better off. We would be more in debt.

William G. The Consitution provides for separation of church and state. It also provides for separation of Big Business and government. The minute the latter two are melded together, there is no government. How did this happen? Remember all those Republican demands since Gingrich for "smaller government"? Well? The government may be smaller but it is also larger for the huge number of private contractors tied to politicians in almost every state who bloat the size of government and the size of the bills they send to taxpayers.

This is one of those issues Republicans don't like to expound upon because they much prefer a government of Big Business, For Big Business, By Big Business. What else explains such massive Big Business infiltration into the workings of government for the past 3 decades?

Now, no bid contracts to crony private contractors are no longer questioned. It's why $200 billion was able to mysteriously go missing on the back of a truck in Iraq in 2003. Funny how that one was shoved under the Republican rug isn't it? If that happened in this administration the GOP would be all over it like white on rice.

Funny, but not useful. Plus, someone may believe you. Parody is hard to distinguish from right wing extremist nonsense.

Conservative economics and free trade are the catalyst

If you can not handle the truth than dig your own grave.

Odd Jeffery...I thought that's what the TP was all about!

You need to look up Marshall Law an what happen when it is impose an what happen as long as Marshall is in effect to the Constitution of the United States , there a right way to protest Tea-Party show the right way the American Way, an went to the polls an show the right way, as for the (Day of Rage) OWS it like Greece's, or Europe which we are not, Rape, Robberies,destruction of Public or Privet Property,an the rest is not the American Way This has been coming since the End of WW-2 when the League of Nation was dismantle an the United Nation was born an form with the Progressive Liberal Agenda, leading for the Dismantle of the Republic of the United States of America an it's Constitution for the New World Order Agenda an the Progressive Liberal Utopia, Pandora Box is open watch what you wish for. good day

25Walker:

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying: People will be held responsible for understanding their own debt again.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying: Banks can't loosen lending practices again, and must get back to stringent lending, since it's how we got in this predicament in the first place. I also want the same clip to claim that Democrats understand that a low finance rate is a priviledge, and NOT a right.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying: Someday, people will understand we're in a global market, and if we don't want our corporations exporting jobs or going overseas entirely, taxing them EVEN MORE isn't going to move us in that direction.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying: There are no guarantees with any kind of investment, be it 401k, nor any other type of retirement plan. Hopefully, as a country, we'll learn this and just reward those agents who don't take unwarranted risks, or invest it wisely ourselves.

I want to hear some Democrat clips admitting that taxing the people that already pay the most income tax won't even make a dent in our debt, and that we can't keep letting 40% of the country PAY NO TAX while insisting others PAY MORE while somehow calling it "fair."

I want to hear some Democrat clips asking where the hell their own party even heard about minimum wage being eliminated? being a state number and all...

I want to hear some Democrat clips asking just what action items it wants to pursue so the U.S. Department of Education will be strengthened since it's obviously what everyone wants.

I want to hear some Democratic clips saying that Planned Parenthood, like all programs, might have to tighten its belt like other programs in order to survive.

I want to hear some Democrat clips asking where the funds for those education and job programs will come from? And that it won't be another tax and spend program that's been SOOOOO helpful to our economy so far....

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying that voters won't be intimidated at the polls by the likes of groups like Acorn and that everyone can cast their vote.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying that even Democrats understand how the Supreme Court nomination process works, and that it doesn't just automatically go in their favor because it's what they want. (That's just sad)

I want to hear some Democrats clips saying: that a REAL JOBS bill has actually been proposed that even the Democrats will approve, and not one that will just add more to our already-out-of-control spending. I'd like the same clip to mention that even Democrats know that MORE government jobs AREN'T the answer.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying: that the Democrats will earnestly work with and urge President Obama to stop spending excessively and irresponsibly, stop creating all these USELESS and expensive time-wasting committees, stop the class warfare that's tearing our country apart and urge its own constituents to stop with the self-entitlement attitude and start learning personal responsibility.

Way to go 25 Walker! You and I and the rest of this country know that will never happen, thanks to Grover Norquist and all those who signed this stupid pledge.

I want to hear some Democrat clips saying that voters won't be intimidated at the polls by the likes of groups like Acorn and that everyone can cast their vote.

Not to get all schoolyard, but I'd like to hear a Republican say that photo ID requirements discriminate against the poor and college students and that they'll work to ensure that every US citizen can not only register to vote, they can actually go to the polls and vote.

Laura-3089574

Way to go 25 Walker! You and I and the rest of this country know that will never happen, thanks to Grover Norquist and all those who signed this stupid pledge.#24.2 - Sun Nov 6, 2011 1:34 AM EDT

Laura...and lets add the Koch Brothers.

I would say lets add Herman Cain - but as we all know thankfully, Cain will not make it to the White House.

Art-4253645

Art, in other words you want to hear the Democrats say - "let's get America back to business as usual."

In response to what you want to hear the Democrats say here is an accurate assessment:

-Mortgage Debt and Consumer Debt did not create this economic collapse. This economic abyss was created by the SHREWD and illegal lending practices of the Big Banks. These banks engaged in fraudulent lending practices - that caused many Americans to lose their homes.

-Exporting U.S. jobs overseas deprives Americans of work and economic opportunities. Exporting jobs also extract billions of dollars out of our economy. Not making Corporations pair their fair share of TAXES - has drained the U.S. treasury literally of TRILLIONS of dollars. If we would collect those trillions of dollars in legitimately owed taxes - our country would be in a better financial status.

-Citizens whose incomes are too low to pay taxes - should not have to shell out money just to say they paid taxes. This is a MORAL ISSUE. Every U.S. citizen that is willing to work and contribute to our society - should have a basic and minimum standard of living.

-Ron Paul and "mentally stable" Michelle Bachmann have vigorously campaigned on eliminating the U.S. minimum wage. Also, if Perry want to eliminate Social Security because he thinks that it is a "Ponzi Scheme" - do you think that this tongue-tied Texan would realistically support the minimum wage? NO.

-As much as our educational system needs to be improved - without the U.S. Department of education you can be sure that the illiteracy rate would in a linear manner - RISE. Without the U.S. Department of education, mathematical and science skills - would virtually completely disappear in many regions of our country - particularly in the geographical regions that are economically depressed.

-Planned Parenthood should not have to "tighten its belt" to the point of depriving U.S. women of needed medical care such as mammograms.

-If the U.S. would get out of the 2 wars that we are in - we would have trillions of dollars for job and educational training programs.

-The present U.S. Supreme Court is PACKED with Right Wing justices. The current political make up of the court - only works for the Super Wealthy and Powerful conglomerates (such as Walmart.)

-Obama's predecessor along with (Oligarch Inc.) sunk the U.S. economy so badly - that America has probably actually experienced A Depression - similarly but not as devastatingly as we did in the 1930's. The New Deal gave our country an economic "kick start." Of course, I would not recommend another war as in the 1940's - as the wars that we are currently in - have in human and economic terms collapsed our country. If the private sector truly started hiring - instead of the corporate elites "hoarding" their cash - we would see improvement in our economy.

Art, your last paragraph is rank hypocrisy!

-Early in President Obama's term, Mitch McConnell made it publicly clear that the GOP's goal - was to make sure that Obama is a one-term president. Thus, the GOP is correctly tagged as the party of NO.

During the Deficit-Reduction Negotiations - Boehner walked away from the negotiating table - TWICE.

"Class-Warfare?" This is a deceptive term that Republicans use to detract the American people from demanding that the Rich pay their fair share of TAXES.

Art, you are right when you state that "the self-entitlement attitude" should stop.

However, it should stop with the 1% draining and sucking the 99% - who take far more from America than their class gives back.

I want to hear Republicans and Democrats say what 25Walker is saying. We need to quit fighting between ourselves and fight government corruption.

I want to hear Republicans and Democrats say what 25Walker is saying. We need to quit fighting between ourselves and fight government corruption.

WHY? Walker 25 is a raving lunatic.

His grasp of finance, business, government and HISTORY in non-existent.

photodude

I want to hear Republicans and Democrats say what 25Walker is saying. We need to quit fighting between ourselves and fight government corruption.

WHY? Walker 25 is a raving lunatic.

His grasp of finance, business, government and HISTORY in non-existent.#24.8 - Sun Nov 6, 2011 9:54 AM EST

photodude

Please provide FACTS to support your position.

The raving lunatics are on The Right - who have caused America to unnecessarily experience an economic implosion.

Here is the "lunacy" that the GOP's Failed "TRICKLE DOWN/SUPPLY SIDE" economics and their twisted political ideology have caused America:

- 14 Million Unemployed Americans

- An unemployment rate of 9%

- An unnecessary Iraq war

- 4000 U.S. Military Service women and men lost

- 3 Trillion Dollars Lost in funding the war

- Billions of Dollars lost because of Wall Street scams

- Billions of Dollars lost because of Big Bank fraud

- A T.A.R.P. - to the Big Banks that cost the U.S. taxpayer at least 25 Billion Dollars

- The Home foreclosures of millions of Americans

- Trillions of Dollars lost because of Corporate subsidies and their failure to pay U.S. TAXES.

- A 2.8 Trillion Dollars TAX Giveaway to millionaires and billionares

- an Exponential Increase in our National Debt

... Photodude - please support your "position" with facts.

History has proved you to be either uninformed, delusional - or not willing to speak the truth.

by 25Walker
"I want to hear ..."

I was in the process of actually refuting the majority of what you said above (and those comment which followed that quote) and was about ¾'s of the way done when I realized that it wouldn't matter.

Your whole position, as to the what's and why's, is convoluted and it doesn't appear that you know the truth, or would be able to accept it.

All you have is partisan talking points and I doubt anybody could sway your opinion from them.

by Michael L-2295838
"... I'd like to hear a Republican say that photo ID requirements discriminate against the poor and college students ..."

I am surprised you left the elderly out of your statement.
Regardless.

This is not something you are going to hear because it isn't discriminatory.
In each one of those categories, the vast majority already have ID's.

So what you have are extremely few situations that you are trying to protect against in the name of anti discrimination, (When the laws can be written to account for those few situations.) instead of ensuring that voter fraud can not take place. I find that to be a ridiculous position to take.

No Paul, I just can't seem to get any clear answers on its goals or action items.

Art I have already explained it to you many times and you still do not get it. Your thick headed... Let me explain again...

What
Occupy Wall Street stands for! (This is for the slow or dimwitted) Besides you
and I it is... Representation from our paid off politicians (by Wall Street
interest groups) that benefit the people and not corporations. Stop tax breaks
and special interest! Simple enough for you to understand? Or, do you need a
civics lesson?

Art>>>>

I don't
understand the TEA PARTY??? Cut spending is their moto, montra... So why are
the Tea party GOP scrambling to spend on the most corrupt part of our
Government the DOD? Scrambled to spend $4billion to BIG OIL... can you SAY KOCH
BROTHERS???

The Tea party which I use to support until they also gave billions away and were hijacked by special interest like the Koch brothers. the political agenda is against Average Americans. Not big spending and not big government but that who is the Tea Party got in bed with! Actions speak louder than words. Big Business is all the TEA PARTY SUPPORTS! Big business is the enemy! Small business are your friends and the Tea Party goes against all small business owners! Look at all the politicians stating they are Tea Party members. OWS does not want any politician to enforce our will. It will come from the people of the people and by the people!

There are so many organizations funding these protesters that have funding from the government, like Acorn. You probably can trace the money back to the White House.

ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents, After They're Exposed as Players Behind 'Occupy Wall Street' Protests

//nation.foxnews.com/acorn/2011/11/03/acorn-officials-scramble-firing-workers-and-shredding-documents-after-exposed-players-behind-occupy

ACORN Affiliate AHCOA Given $350,000 Funding from Government

//technorati.com/politics/article/acorn-affiliate-ahcoa-given-350000-funding/

waves: anyone who uses fox news as a "source" is too funny to take seriously.

I watch all sources. Fox News has much better ratings than the Government.State-run media. You will not hear both sides on mainstream media. This information is fact. Is there a problem with someone wanting to obtain ALL the facts in an important matter concerning their tax dollars? Obviously, those who make fun of Fox News viewers are very uninformed of ALL the FACTS.

The OSW started Sept. 18, 2011 as the Day Of Rage in the United States Acting like are Stock Markets Up an Down mostly down, an how they have there Friends joining in the Unions Thugs, with the Progressive Liberal also joined there side with the 99% more like 20% , Boys an Girls watch what you wish for, Marshal Law the 99% or 20% more like it will be the 0% cant get any lower that that an the Progressive Liberal will hid back in the closet. Good day

Did you know that 99% of statictics are made up?

Art, The OWS protests share several common goals in an attempt to rectify economic and political inequality. Three decades of wealth redistribution to the top 20% (especially to the top 1%) has negatively affected 80% of Americans and is now being used to influence public policy in order to perpetuate this inequality. Legislation is needed to reinstate Glass-Steagall regulation of financial institutions, overturn the Citizens United Ruling, increase (or get rid of) the $106,800 limit on Social Security contributions, increase tax revenue from our wealthiest citizens (to pay debt incurred by unfunded wars), and to reduce unemployment. There are other concerns being expressed, but legislative action on these five basic issues would be a great start in addressing the OWS protest concerns.

If you really want to make a difference get out of wall street & go after the CEO's who send jobs to other countries & the politicians who passed these trade agreements that helped make it happen. While you're at it you could go after the celebrities & professional athletes who demand obscene salaries.

Most of the guys on wall street are simply trying to make a living by making others a profit on their retirement & other investments.