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Rich Schultz / AP
The Campbells with their son, Adolf Hitler.
A New Jersey couple who lost custody of their first three kids after giving them Nazi-inspired names has been denied the right to take home their fourth child, a newborn boy they named Hons.
Heath and Deborah Campbell's other children - Adolf Hitler Campbell, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell - are in foster care. On Monday, the Campbells went to family court in their hometown of Flemington, N.J,. in a bid to regain custody of Hons, who they say was taken from them by state child welfare officials hours after Deborah gave birth on Thursday, reported myfoxphilly.com.
Hons is still in the hospital, but the couple has been barred from seeing the baby, they told FOX. Heath Campbell said police came into the nursery and took Hons without a court order.
“They kidnapped my kid,” Campbell said. “I’ve been sleeping with his little blanket from the hospital.”
The state took custody of the couple’s other children nearly two years ago, saying there were in danger because of previous violence in the Campbell home, The Associated Press has reported. The Campbells have been fighting to get their children back ever since, claiming the violence charges are fabricated. It wasn't clear whether the latest court hearing involved all of the children or just the newborn.
The Campbells came into the spotlight in 2009 when a supermarket refused to ice a birthday cake for their now 4-year-old son Adolf Hitler.
Heath Campbell defended the children's names and told myfoxphilly.com on Monday that his reverend approved of him naming his new son Hons.
The Campbells have denied that they are neo-Nazis.
Read more on myfoxphilly.com.
Leave a Comment:
If they're not neo-Nazis, WHY in Heaven's name would they curse their children with these names that have such terrible historical implications? Do they really feel they're doing the best thing for the children?? You might at well name a child "I'm a big fat jerk & murdered millions of people Campbell" and be done with it.
Does "name choice" give any government agency the right to take kids away from parents?
Is there a list of government acceptable names we must abide by? If so where is this approved list?
It is not any worse than naming a boy "Sue"
The real question to be asked is why does the state of NJ have the right to take someone's children away from them because of the names they gave them? The article states that the abuse they were accused of happened over 2 years ago. And now they are not even allowed to see their newborn?
Things that make you go hmmmm.
No, its a lot worse. These kids are in for a life of hate, bullying and all because they were born to a couple brainless idiots.
Read the article!
The children were taken because of past violence in the home.
How do you folks always miss the important parts of the story.
They may be guilty of poor taste, but unless there are more specifics on the other charges, I don't see where the state has a right to take their children.
Nice to see that someone actually reads the article.
im scratching my head over this one...absolutely find the parents dispicable for what they've chosen to name their kids, buuuuuuuuuut...thats their right, and if they wish to sentence their children to a lifetime of patheticness, it is well within their rights to do so.
sadly, every parent has the full fledged right to destroy their children before the age of 5 by ingraining insanity, hatred, ignorance, indifference, apathy, ugliness, violence, ect...
this is america, land of the free to be the worst parents in the world...land of the free to look the other way, it's not your kids...why should YOU care?
they are only kids, just not yours. it's like paterno, he morally and legally didnt have to care if some kids were being raped...all he had to care about as head coach of Penn State was that his beloved institutions name didnt get drug through the mud.
In the land of the Free, America - we dont have to care about the kids...they can all starve and kill each other, for all we care...its none of our jobs to care about any child, unless its our own...and even then, we mostly dont have to care for them either...just dont beat em, enslave or prostitute em out and you're pretty much good to go.
The bar need not be set high...this isnt a Christian nation.
It's a mind your own damn business nation...
There's this crazy concept of being a "fit parent". I admit I have a hard time buying these two fit the criteria based on their abuse of their children with such heinous names. But then hey, just like the rest of you, I'm not the child welfare officials or the police who actually investigated the case, so maybe, just maybe, you don't know what these people do to one another or their children which would get their kids taken away. Sounds like you'd prefer to let their parents keep them, right up until something terrible happens at which point you'll scream "how could they have let these people keep their kids?? where were the authorities??? Who was looking out for the poor childrens??" Well now you know who's looking out for the kids. Stop being a pest and think of what's best for the kids. Fer crying out loud people.
Giving your chilren such names doesn't prove you're unfit but it sure is a good indication.
...and Flemington was such a nice place...who raised these dirt bags?
And the parents say that there is no past violence. Sadly I remember the story about the Birthday cake, even at that time, there were questions if the violence were true or not.
This story makes you go Hummm in many different ways. Why the general term " Violence " If the kids were taken away for specific reasons, there are records that say why.. Include that in the story not general " violence "
Yes the parents on the surface are Neo Nazis.. but is being a neo nazi a reason to take the kids?
Yes the parents are prob blithering idiots who will raise the kids in the belief that the Ayran Race is all that matters. Misguided as that is, that is their right in this Country. Is that enough to take the kids?
sorry I have to say No to all of the above. And a general term like " violence " means little without specifics.
Who cares if they are nazis?
There are plenty of other kooks that get to keep their kids.
And what were they convicted of? What is the violent act? Funny they would have an article like this but no mention of their convictions. If it was the husband beating the wife, but not the kids, that is something the courts can deal with by not allowing the husband to be around the kids.
A conviction is public record. But no mention of an order for him to stay away.
It makes me think there was no conviction for "violence". What right does the Gov't have to take away kids when there is no conviction (if that is the case)?
If the Gov't is going to take kids for parents being kooks, shouldn't they take them away from parents who neglect them through malnutrition?
Oh, wait, that would be 1 out of 5 kids.
So why these parents?
They made news because of the names...they lost the kids because of domestic violence...read the article. Then look up some law and educate yourselves...The state can totally remove kids from a violent house hold. Curse out the crappy reporter for not explaining what the specifics to the violence were.
Read the documents at the link provided below by jrzwrld. That should clarify the state of this home and their fitness for parenting.
Dude, Hitler was skinny!
Let's see - the article clearly states the children were taken away due to violence in the family. What part of that did most of you miss - oh - all of it apparently!
This story has upset me a great deal
No parent should lose their children to the state unless they are subjecting them to untold violence emotional abuse and cruelty. Period.
I don't care if the parents are satan personified.
For the sake of society and the children, spay and neuter these breeders.
Yes people, there is this HUGE conspiracy going on. everyone at Child Services is in on it, every cop is in on it, everyone at the DA's office is on it and every Judge is in on it. They have all conspired against this idiot couple.
Or maybe, just maybe people involved in this case, the ones with the actual facts. The ones who have spoken to the children, the neighbors, seen the house, etc have all come to the same conclusion which is there is a viable reason to keep the children out of the home.
Oh that's just crazy. A state wide conspiracy against this couple is far more logical.
(please note the heavy sarcastic tone)
Perhaps the "neo" part is the problem. Sounds like just plain Nazis to me.
Having said that, while despicable, what you name your kids IS your business. Fortunately for them, at 18 they can change it. However, it does appear by this article that the kids were removed from the home for DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.
Frankly, I hope that's true ... and that they are raised in a relatively normal environment with VERY GOOD nicknames!
I guess some missed the other article where the neighbors say the children always appeared healthy. Or where both the parents deny any past violence. I question why, if there were such incidents, there are no mention of formal charges.
Welcome to the nanny state.
Does a parent retain the legal right to teach their own children their values?
From the article:
"The state took custody of the couple’s other children nearly two years ago, saying there were in danger because of previous violence in the Campbell home, The Associated Press has reported. The Campbells have been fighting to get their children back ever since, claiming the violence charges are fabricated. It wasn't clear whether the latest court hearing involved all of the children or just the newborn."
If those children were returned and something were to "happen" to one or all of them, everyone would be screaming that it was the state's fault since they were returned to a home where violence had been a part of the past. I agree with the state, in this instance. Anything and everything should be done to protect all children from violence and abuse.
As far as the names, yes they can name their kids after fixtures and furniture if that's what they want to do but come on...really...giving the children names that stir up enough emotion and shock value that articles are written and followed up on in an international venue like this and others...what kind of lives are they setting up for the children??? One that's bound to bring prejudice and curiosity at best. At worst, hatred, violence and ostracism. Are the parents really concerned about the well being of their kid's futures or all about themselves and making a "statement"??? I grew up with a very ethnic surname in an area where it was found "unusual" and suffered for it at the hands of bullies going through grade school. I can only imagine what the future would be for these kids with provocative chosen names like this.
Not when those values call for the extermination of fellow citizens id10t.
Maybe YOU should read the article, because it was a "name" on a birthday cake that started the entire thing.
The parents real names: Dumb @!$%# Mother@!$%#er Campbell and Turd Bitch Slopbrain Campbell should have been printed in the article. Don't they have a right to see their real names in print? What has this country come to?
W Goin, the article clearly states the tales of violence were fabricated. What part of the article did you miss? These people are A holes for sure but you can't take their kids away because if what they named them. We have a president with a middle eastern name and everyone is ok with it.
Why don't ya'll actually read the court documents before making mindless speculations about its legitimacy?
From the documents:
"Defendant-father, I.H.C., is now thirty-seven years old. He has been unemployed throughout his adult life because of medical and psychological disabilities. Defendant-mother, D.C., is now twenty-seven, and she is also unemployed because of physical and psychological conditions. In their childhood, both were victims of abuse. Neither has received adequate treatment for their serious psychological conditions. They have limited education because of their disabilities and the circumstances of their childhood. The father cannot read. The mother dropped out of high school before finishing the tenth grade.
In 2008 to early 2009, the couple lived in Hunterdon County with their three children, a boy A.C. born in December 2005, a girl J.C. born in February 2007, and a girl H.C. born in April 2008. The father was married two previous times and has other children, whom he does not see or support.
DYFS became involved with the family on December 16, 2008, through a referral alleging that the children were being strapped and confined for unusual amounts of time within the home in child booster seats and that domestic violence occurred in the home. The next day, DYFS sent two case workers to the home to investigate..." [read the rest]
It's almost like the pro-Nazis don't know how to read. No wonder they want special rights based on ethnicity; in a meritocracy they will always sink to the bottom of the barrel.
So if an American Muslin child is named after say Bin Laden, then will our government step in and take those chidlren as well.
I don't agree with their obviously stupid choices, but exactly where does this stop?
Actually, the article clearly states that the Nazi parents CLAIMED that the violence was fabricated.
Do we have a reading comprehension problem here?
Despite their poor judgement in naming their children, I'd have to agree the state went too far unless the claims of violence can be proven. Then again, we have enough Neo-Nazi-white-supremacy freaks running around loose, so why allow anyone to raise four more?
The state better have an airtight case for violence. Do I agree with the names? No. Can you fabricate a false case for violence in the home? Sure, you could for absolutely any home I'm positive. Ironically I have actually referred to the child services people in my state as 'The child enforcement Nazis' for years. They help some people sure, but having dealt with the system, I know from experience that they lie like hell. From what I read, the parents have issues, and questionable taste in names. But if you're taking away kids from parents you damn well better have an airtight case.
To read the many comments that they should not loose the kids for giving them the names they did. They lost the kids for the violence in the house. If the parents want to beat the crap out of each other - have at it. If they want to murder the other adult - have at it. As for the kids - they should not be subject to seeing or being involved in that. It is not uncommon for a young child to run to say the mother as in their young mind they think they are helping and bam - the other parents beats and kills the child to make a point to the spouse.
Think about it - how many times have we heard and shouted out in disgust when a child is found malnourished or dead in a home that the 'system' failed the child/children. People go off in a rant because the system failed them. Here - the system acted to protect the kids which is what should be done. The children - too young to defend themselves and would be the ultimate payers with their lives had they remained with the parents.
Seriously people -- you can't have it both ways. You can't spew that the parents should keep the kids and then spew when those kids die from the abuse or harmed for life, that the system failed them. The system is set for a reason -- to protect children who cannot defend themselves. I'd rather know that the system acted to protect those kids than to find them dead in their beds.
When the parents spew they didn't do anything - tell me something I didn't know. Every parent that has their children taken away spews the same crap and when all evidence revealed - many were the most vial parents walking and should never have kids in their care. It's the same when say a son murders someone and the mother appears in front of a camera saying 'he was a good boy' or 'he was the best son a mother could ever have'. Yearightsure. The same statement spewed for media face time over and over and over again. Such a 'good' boy. Yea. But should he not be charged, found guilty and jailed - mommy dearest could be next on his 'hit list'.
While u mentioned satan, let me play devil's advocate. If an american couple was muslim with extremist anti-american values and shared the same values as terrorist would the state have the right to take their child ?
Seriously, I provide the link to the (CLICK HERE ->) court documents -- yet people are still speculating about fabrication.
Do people want to make an informed opinion or is spitting hot air more satisfying?
No way is this family not reunited after two-years. Agencies like DYFS are mandated to "preserve the family unit." If the government has had these kids for two years it's because the government has decided they know what's best for us-again.
I'm more concerned about the stealthy and secret running off with their newborn when they weren't looking deal. Seems to me that under such circumstances, they would have been justified in taking up arms against the kidnappers.
That's not what the judge said (http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html).
Then again, with a user name like 'willing sniper', you probably think that there's nothing wrong with stabbing someone with a screwdriver and it really IS all about the cake.
Excerpted from the court document, below is a note from this exemplary parent handed to one of her neighbors. Read then comment.
PS: I can only assume that the new kid is named after Hans Hube (spelling is not their forte).
Shuklack....Thank you for providing the court documents...!
Holy sh!t....this is one messed up situation! Ummm...HEY! Folks! The children were NOT, I repeat NOT removed because of their names, they were removed because this family is batsh!t crazy!!! Go to post 1.29 or post 1.38...and click on the link...take a deep breath and prepare to feel queasy.......don't assume, just read the thing.
I find it ironic that the same people who spit venom against the jobless 'burdens' on society in every thread are now defending these emotionally disturbed parents who have not held employment once in their adult lives and are breeding several welfare dependant children.
If you're a Nazi, it's a lot more satisfying to spit hot air. Nazi's vastly prefer that people have UNinformed opinions.
Did you guys read what Shuklack posted........... the facts as to why the children were removed..........why don't you read it before posting speculation !!!
One of the facts...... that this loser father has other children with other women.........no wonder America is going straight to hell.......these offspring are America's future.
Is there a law against naming your children those names? Why did it take the state this long to act? Why didn't the hospital report those names at their birth? When will we take the extreme muslims children? I don't believe there was abuse, they only acted on this report after the person reported them, when she refused to make a birthday cake. Should they change the names of those children? Yes, no child should have to grow up with that name. But we cannot take children from their homes just for their name. How many children living in America are named Saddam, Osama, Malcolm or Malik? Whats next take the children of racist rappers, black panther members, kkk members? We need to treat them all equal, lets take all their children. They all could be prone to violence or subjected to it. Hell we give cult members, their children back so they can marry them off at 12 to 65 yr old men lmao!
Shuklack you would think that as lazy as some people are, that they would be ecstatic that you have already done the work for them. Now comes that oh-so-terrible-I-gotta-read-this-are-there-any-vampires-in-this-story-lamentations.......
Thank you for the link. :)
I just noticed that Jzwrld actually beat me to in a below thread, according to the timestamp! But yeah, it amazes me how people will immediately dive into wild speculation as if readily available things like court documents are stashed away in some secret archive on the top of Mt. Everest known only to the Esoteric Order of Dagon, and one must perform a summoning blood ritual in order to conjure up such information.
jobless burdens?
It usually IS the jobless burdens that want to blame all of society's ill's on specific demographic groups (Jews, immigrants, blacks, Latinos) as a mask for their own personal inadequacies.
Okay we have previous violence that occurred in the home how many years ago? Let's see the kids have been in foster care for two years now so let's just say three years ago. I do not agree with the names they have chosen, but people I personally know methamphetamine addicts who have gotten their children back after only 18 months.
Sidebar: It has been statistically proven that a child's chances of being sexually molested and/or abused dramatically increase via the foster care system.
Are the social workers for CPS now licensed psychiatrists and psychologists? Just wondering since the article stated neither parent has had sufficient treatment for their psychological problems. Who made this diagnosis? And what constitutes sufficient treatment? Weekly counseling, in-facility treatment, day treatment, lots of prescription medications? I need some clarity here because I have a family member with psychological problems (PTSD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder, Major Depressive Disorder/Severe/Recurring, Suicidal Ideologies) who has been in treatment for 35 years (all of the above mentioned forms). She has held a job, married, divorced, and raised three normal, healthy children by herself.
I have a real problem with this case. Something doesn't feel right and there's a real bad smell to it also. We all remember Texas CPS taking 400+ children from their parents wrongfully. Some were nursing infants. Do not be deceived into thinking all CPS workers, etc. are good people when that's not realistic. What bothers me the most is this newborn and his mother never went through the bonding process and CPS just effed him up without a thought to that child's psychological future!
If the parents' only crime is naming their children after reprehensible historical figures, NO government agency in this country should have the authority to take their children.
The hospital's actions scare me far more than the stupidity and short-sightedness of the parents.
Nazism is against the law in Germany. It is *not* in this country. As disgusting as we find the actions of these people, a name doesn't make for physical harm.
What this action will do is bring a justifiable lawsuit that will make these lame-brained parents wealthy...at taxpayer's expense.
@commonsense
Yeah, that's what I was saying.... that it was ironic that the same people who so hate and despise 'jobless burdens and their welfare babies' are now on this thread defending psychotic, illiterate, jobless burdens having custody of their welfare babies.
It just shows how a person's perspective depends highly upon what information is provided to them in the main article.
The link to the court documents for removing the kids from their custody is in this thread several times.
This is a win for all of the "State's Rights" folks out there! This is a loss for the "Liberty and Justice for All" folks.
Seriously? The neighbor lady who turned in the note is not the same person as the man at the grocery store who refused to decorate the cake with swastikas. And neither of them is the person who first reported that the children were being abused.
Well?.......They might not be Neo-Nazis but they certainly fit the category of Moronic. To say the very least.
Want to piss off anybody at a forum/blog/chat room - call them Hitler.
Life is hard enough without people who should be on your side making things harder.
I'd hate to be this guys employer, like he has an employer.
The children were not taken because of their names. This is why they were taken!
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
If you take the time to read the court documents, the names of the children had absolutely no bearing on the decision to remove the children.
The names of the children just make the story "juicier" and more people read it because of that. And that is what journalism is all about - create a headline that will grab peoples' attention, and "Adolph Hitler" served that purpose. Would you have read the story if the headline read "Parents Lose Custody of Newborn"? I bet half of you wouldn't have bothered.
These two are not "Neo-Nazi's" that is politically incorrect, they are "Nuevo Aryan Nation Americans", their children even call the mother NANA.
The Campbells came into the spotlight in 2009 when a supermarket refused to ice a birthday cake for their now 4-year-old son Adolf Hitler. What took the state so long to act? Why didn't they remove the children, when the violence happened in the home? Why wait until the birthday cake reporting? So for 4 yrs this child goes by without his name being noticed, then all of a sudden store reports the issue, and bam lets trump up the charges so we can take the children. The court system here will bend over backwards for drug addicts, they say it's so important that we keep the children in the home. Hell gangbangers don't get their children removed here. The cartel members children are being born here, yet their not removed for violence! Their children will be raised, to be the leaders/members of the gang.
While I agree that what you name your child should not be a matter for the government to be involved in, I must admit, seeing what they are actually naming those children is at least circumstantial evidence that they are violent hate filled people... I think the names are the symptoms of a much deeper problem.
I hope they didn't take their children away because of what they named their children. After all, a rose is still a rose; a name is just a name. Reality, is still reality. This nation genocided twice as many Native Americans as Hitler killed Jewish.
So, if names are based upon evil, conquerors and genocide, we would have to outlaw every name in America except Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Broken Arrow and Cherokee, i.e., the Trail of Tears!
I select Chief Seattle.
Shuklack, thanks for all the excellent posts, but thanks most of all for pointing out the importance of primary sources (and providing a link to one).
It shouldn't matter what information is provided to us in the main article, we should be smart enough to ferret out the truth for ourselves. Sadly, even after you posted the judges order most of us failed to read it or weigh it against our own preconceived notions.
The government steals our babies if they don't like our politics? Really? Is that a reasonable conclusion to draw based on the evidence at hand? Does it jibe with our perceptions of reality? The scary part is that so many people seem to be answering "yes" to all of those ridiculous postulates.
And my apologies if a poorly worded comment by me made it appear as though I were disagreeing with you. I meant to signify support.
I see mother and father are on mental and physical disability - guess they want it both ways - unable to work but healthy enough to raise children (and still hump).
Good point by those who find the irony in people who bash the rights of OWS protesters then defend these parents - if only they could judge them selves as easily as they judge others.
skor - it's Chief Sealth, not Seattle...I guess conquers couldn't pronounce Sealth.
Dennis they probably thought the names were funny and that the Holocaust didn't exist. However whatever their warped thought they obviously did not think of the reaction to these names. Or to the sad fact that these chosen names for their children will set their kids up to be bullied, ridiculed and hurt throughout the rest of their lives.
Thus I can only hope that Social servives provides them with new names and that they young enough not to remember their birth names especially adolf's. THOSE POOR KIDS HAVE A LIFE OF HELL IN FRONT OF THEM IF SOME NAMES ARE NOT CHANGED>
And to the Parents----sorry setting your kid up for failure is CRUEL AND ABUSIVE which makes you unfit to be a parent morally, socially and by the law!
This is a pretty simple equation. The kids parents were morons but that doesn't give anyone the right to kidnap their family. So, if an effort to legally do it, the police acutally responded to calls of family domestic abuse and used that as their justification to take the kids. Afterward, how can anyone argue that this wasn't for the kids interest being that the household was violent? The govt. played the game right and won.
That's Socialism for you, Who is the Nazi now. To wrongs don't make a right, what was the outcome of the pprevious investigation on violence in the home is it true, was their a hearing. the names are in very bad taste but we cant have the local government name our children for us. and surely they can't just run around and abduct whatever children they want without due process. what about names like Damion or Lilith that have evil biblical roots should we collect them as well I admit the names are twisted but they can always go by a Nick name till they wise up and change it, after all they are just names, these people might have a motive behind what they are doing, its strange they live in a region with a high Jewish population. If these people are a threat or mentally ill wouldn't the state be looking into their mental health how about the rest of the story. I admit its sick but so is the states reaction.
Ok,
1) I really don't have a problem with the childrens names (are they hate filled? yes). After all, this IS America and-right or wrong-they have the right to be stupid and give their children names that will (probably) cause some mental problems somewhere down the road because of how they are treated along the way.
2) If the children were taken because of violence in the home, Child Services would be doing the right thing by taking them out.
3) According to the article, the police took a neo-Nazi appoach against a neo-Nazi couple & took the infant from the hospital WITHOUT A COURT ORDER.
This I have a problem with. For one (I think), very good reason. Where does it stop? If we allow the police to do this WITHOUT A COURT ORDER, who's next? You? Me?
Police: "We don't like blue eyed, red headed, lasses-of-Irish-descent so we're gonna come in & take your children."
Where will it stop?
Don't miss understand me I'm not standing up for these people, but I do believe in due process and I don't like to much authority being given to gov agencies.
All nazis, neo or otherwise, need to be destroyed. It shows how much these parents really cared about these kids by the names they were given.
So, YES, take those kids away from them. If parents are not acting responsibly, I AM GLAD someone is stepping in and doing the right thing!!!
Remember: destroy all Nazis! Neo or otherwise... Thanks!!
parents subjecting their children to hate, ridicule etc., due to their mental condition is; A DISGRACE !!!.......
Some of you folks need to read the article as well as other quoted information provided. These people are nuts and shouldn't be allowed to procreate. I know this is a free country but why would anyone want to make his/her children miserable by giving them names that they most likely will get teased about for the rest of their lives. They obviously have no clue about parenting as would the "violence in the home" also bear out.
Are you guys NUTS? Abuse is clearly reported in the home by different people against the children and against the mother-and it is obvious due to court records that the children were removed BECAUSE OF ABUSE; yet you go on about them being taken because of their names? You guys obviously seized on an agenda and will not be persuaded otherwise. Of course no child should be taken from his or her parents due to his or her name, but it is crystal clear that THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE! Just for the record, very few abusers admit to their crimes so the fact that they deny abuse means nothing. Also, how many times do kids actually get removed from an abusive home before something terrible happens?
I come from an abusive home-domestic abuse and child abuse. We kids "always looked healthy," but that didn't mean we weren't being abused! There are other forms of abuse besides beating and starvation that would leave obvious signs. My family is in such denial that today they deny any abuse, though there is a ton of evidence for it even aside from me remembering it-ie, my best friend's remembrances, recent family members' statements, etc. As far as kids being at high risk of abuse in foster home situations, should you leave them in a situation of CERTAIN abuse to avoid a situation of POSSIBLE RISK of abuse? (I have to admit that it would have been pretty traumatic for me as a child to have been taken from my family, despite the abuse. When you grow up with it like I did, it seems like normal to you. Standard Operating Proceedure. It was only after I got older that things began to break down for me when I realized I wasn't functioning like other people did due to all the fears and phobias and hypervigilance and misconceptions and strange ways I was using to cope with situations and people that weren't necessarily outwardly evident but that kept me from trying things, getting close to people, or enjoying very much about life. I was basically numb on the inside.) I asked earlier how often kids are removed from an abusive home before something terrible happens. Well, no one died at my home; but my spirit almost did. I am certain that if I had not had a relationship with God at a young age, I would not be alive today.
.
I'm pretty sure this is what the father said. Do we know this independently-ie, from court records?
We may not like it. But, the state has no right to take these children into custody just because of their names. It is hard to imagine why the parents would name their children after Nazis given the problems they will encounter as they grow up. But that's neo-Nazis for you. The children should be returned immediately and let the parents deal with whatever consequences that may arise. This is plain wrong.
they should have given them nick names too ..like jesus or moses..lmao ..
Skulak & Commonsense:
At no point does the court document say there was a conviction of either of the parents for any violence.
Do you guys even read what you post?
So the state can't even prove there was any violence.
They didn't even try them on it, so they don't even have enough evidence to charge them, let alone have enough evidence to go to trial.
So now several children have been taken by the Gov't with no proof to back up their claims.
Do we really need a Gov't that takes kids without evidence?
If there had been violence, why were there no convictions?
Wouldn't the first course of action be to have the kids removed on a temporary basis pending the results of the trial?
Instead, the children are now in the Foster Care system. Children are not safe in foster care. There is more deaths, rapes, and other bad outcomes for the children than the national average. This is indisputable based on the Gov'ts own data.
You might think they are kooks, (and looks like they really are), but if they are crazy, commit them. If they committed a crime, charge them.
Short of that, we have no proven evidence that the children were harmed.
And the court documents only back that up. So when you post a Gov't theory, remember, that isn't fact until proven.
And since nothing seemed to come up before the cake incident, it does lead one to believe that they are being targeted for their beliefs.
You can't get any more anti-American than that.
The children were not taken because of their names. This is why they were taken!
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
"Do we know this independently-ie, from court records?"
No. I got my info from the article.
Please don't hate me if the reporting is bad.
I read the article it basically says nothing short of some incident a couple of years ago it does not say what! also there is supposed to be due process, and that was ignored why don'tyou hotheads pay attention your children might be the next ones on the list. if in fact there was no warrant( I don't know ) then this is a illegal abduction end of story. same as kidnapping you know a crime where some one takes someone wrongfully. in this case the State, that does not make it right, they need to follow proper procedures. you know what we live in a sick Society as it is so dont clime to high on your pedestal's you might fall off.
They are not neo-Natzi's? OK. Sure. I completely believe them...especially since the name Adolph Hitler is such a hit these days.
What a couple of selfish boobs these two are. Were they so wrapped up in their beliefs that they did not consider what kind of abuse their children would receive with names like that?
That being said, I'm not sure that the authorities have the right to take the children based on offensive names. One can only hope, though.
The father has a history of violence.
The mom has no history of protecting the children.
He stabbed her with a screwdriver, according to her own testimony.
Yet they both now agree that no violence occurred.
Why should children receive less protections from the court than adults? If a man stabbed his co-worker with a screwdriver, he would be in prison, and I am relatively sure that none of his co-workers would be forced to continue working with him. His children are forced to stay in this environment 24/7. Plenty of people have their rights infringed upon. This idiot is not one of them.
"He stabbed her with a screwdriver, according to her own testimony.
Yet they both now agree that no violence occurred."
The neo-nazi trailer trash probably just thinks this is foreplay. lol
Shuklack, thanks for the link - definitely puts a different spin on things. I read another article today about a woman who was jailed & her son was taken by DHS because he weighed 555 lbs. Later I read the reason she was jailed was for not only failure to appear, but for taking her son out of the state to avoid losing custody (granted, I would have probably done the same thing). It's a good question, what constitutes abuse and neglect in the absence of obvious physical abuse. If it were ONLY the names I'd say the state was wrong, but decorative knives laying around, unemployed parents that can't read, and that letter all add up to an unsafe environment for kids.
Miss Deanna,
"the police took a neo-Nazi appoach against a neo-Nazi couple & took the infant from the hospital"
A neo-nazi approach would have been to take the parents into custody, determine that they are genetically defective, and kill them and their children as well, so they will not pollute the gene pool.
I think removing the children until when and if the parents are determined to no longer be a threat to their safety is much more reasonable. The headline could have easily read, "State Denies Negligence in Child Death, despite Extensive Family History." Officer states, "I knew he was violent to his wife, and his child was named Adolf Hitler, but my concerns for his imminent safety were minimal."
There would be all sorts of calls to disband the police union because they clearly do not do their jobs.
If they are such unfit parents why aren't they made to use birth control? Isn't that more cost effective than taking their children away and putting them into foster care?
@realist:
Are the social workers for CPS now licensed psychiatrists and psychologists? Just wondering since the article stated neither parent has had sufficient treatment for their psychological problems. Who made this diagnosis?
If you read the court documents, you will see that several medical experts - including MDs - testified in court about the mental state of the parents. This was not CPS acting independently. The link to the court documents has been provided numerous times - I wish people would read the testimony and understand what is REALLY going on here. This case grabbed headlines because of the names of the children. Unfortunately, the reality is one that is all too common - these parents are not unfit because they gave their children terrible names - if that were the case then most of Hollywood would lose custody! These parents lost custody because of the unsafe environment in which the children were being raised.
well primate guy, this couple IS mentally defective....
they really should be neutered simply for the fact that they are permanently unemployed and nothing but a burden on everyone else
It appears this article is misleading at best...a downright falsehood at worst.
MSNBC: You should either pull the article or amend it to reflect the *real* reason these kids were taken from their home. Apparently their birth names had nothing to do with it. Abuse did.
The article mentions abuse, but wrongly infers that it was due to the names that these kids were taken.
Thank you, uchusky99 for clarifying.
In my defense (and others here), MSNBC should be regarded as a *somewhat* reliable news source. Although canted, the stories should at least report all pertinent facts. It was with that belief (however naive) that I took the story at face value.
From now on, I'll take stories here with a grain of salt (or a whole shaker full of them).
I've read the court document - complex, but grimly fascinating stuff. One thing I found interesting - I don't know if it's been mentioned in this forum - was that the case summary was actually an appeal filed by the "Law Guardian" and DYFS to overturn a previous judge's ruling that the children be given back to the parents, since that judge determined there was insufficient evidence to prove the allegations of domestic violence.
There are really no easy answers in this one, but when it comes to the safety and well-being of children I think it's much better to err on the side of caution. I mean, If a three-year-old calls any woman who thwarts him a bitch, I think one can reasonably conclude that he's probably not in the best environment.
This is very sad for the children, how could you possibly function growing up with these names later to find out what your parents set you up for..The parents don't want their children they want attention ! Sorry to say but our Government needs to get involved with hatred in this country as the school bullies are increasing in numbers.. I don't want to live in a place with this ilk..........Build more prisons!!
I read the court document, and yes these are some very "handicapped" people who, like many others in this country, should not be allowed to bring children into this world. The man states that he is German. In Germany it is against the law to say or print any thing against the Jews. This includes using swastikas, and promoting popular Nazi names and other symbols. You may speak out against almost anything else you might dislike however. In other words, like America, Germany is once again under complete Jewish control. I can't help but notice after all this time, that people still bring up the Holocaust, although I've never seen anyone mention the millions of white Russians the Jews killed under Lenin and Stalin. And here we are talking tens of millions, not just five million! The Russian Revolution, or The October War, as it is commonly known, was started and financed by Jewish financiers out of New York city. Most of you have been spoon fed your history lessons from Jewish film makers and Jewish writers who wrote your history books, and even today, it's obvious they continue to spoon feed you what ever "they" think you should know. In conclusion, I will ask you to think of the word "karma" when thinking about those "poor" Jews.
Are you saying that the world was flat until Magellan's voyage was completed?
Naming your kid Adolf Hitler is abuse can't you read between the lines..Put your glasses on!
Up to the eyeballs with the recent influx of gang-collapsing.
The violence which the article did not go into detail about includes the following:
Their parents, Heath Campbell, 37, and Deborah Campbell, 27, both unemployed and disabled, were abused as children and "neither has received adequate treament for their serious psychological conditions," the three-judge panel of the Superior Court of New Jersey Appellate Division.
The 49-page ruling shed light on the bleak life inside the Campbell home in Holland Township, where windows were nailed shut and "unusual decorative features" included skulls and knives.
DYFS first became involved in the case in December 2008 after receiving complaints that the children were being strapped into their booster seats for unusually long periods of time amid ongoing domestic violence.
A neighbor turned over a handwritten note signed by Deborah Campbell, who dropped out of the 10th grade, that accused her husband of trying to kill her and expressed fear for her children's safety. The note, replete with spelling errors, said, "Hes thrend to have me killed or kill me himself hes alread tried it a few times. Im scare to leave b/c I will be killed. Im afread that he might hurt my children if they are keeped in his care... He's already stabed me with a screwdriver in the hand... He teaches my son how to kill someone at the age of 3."
One of his ex-wives testified that Heath Campbell disciplined their son so severely with a vacuum in his face that everytime she cleans house with the vacuum he screams "bloody murder." She also testified that she "could not bring her son around 'anybody that wasn't white' because the son would say 'terrible things'" that he learned at his father's knee.
Court documents show that the oldest child frequently threatens to kill people and the mother once slipped a note to a neighbor saying she was terrified of her husband because he said he would kill her.
Shucklack, I read the documentation from the courts---these people can't take care of themselves, let alone try to take care of kids. I agree, the news article went for the easy, sensational aspect of the case--the names---when that aspect was really the least of the court's concern for what was happening to these kids. Thank you for taking the time to present the actual court documents.
breakwater, your comment is a boatload of spit
blah blah "jews" blah blah "jew control", blah blah "jews did it" blah blah BS
no doubt you get your "history" from "mein kampf"
So, when the mother desperately asks for help because she feels her and her children's lives are in danger from the father.... and not to mention the numerous other indicators mentions in the court documents quoted above....
You, are ok with those kids staying in that home UNTIL something violent happens?
if it was YOUR DECISION, Ryan in Texas, would you be willing to carry that burden based on the evidence?
I don't know how many times there are stories of parents murdering their children, and people (like you) are railing against "The Useless System" for failing the children when there were so many "Obvious Signs"
This is one of those cases.
Wow! The human race is truly doomed to ignorance.
They could have at least spelled the name right. H-A-N-S. Idiots.
Sparrow this article is about Children NOT WASHINGTON DC!
This is a case of a violent father- who's apparently a neo-nazi and a liar to boot! His own wife has filed charges against him in the past and told authorities that she believed her hubby might "kill" her.
That said; It's also come to light from court doc's that the father named the children after Nazis to seek attention and notoriety.
Now it also seems he may have the ulterior motive of calling foul and attempting to make the 'name-issue' into the smokescreen for losing his kids.
Turns out- the names are still in effect, but the dad is NOT.
Why are they sill able to even have children? They keep having them and we keep taking them away. Why not just sterilize them and be done with it. Instead we will probably be taking care of these children on the taxpayers dollar again. This is one of the big problems in this country! Stupid people reproducing. We all as taxpayers should be able to vote them off the breeding island.
You might be right, but I wouldn't go so far as to condemn the entire human race.
Here on Newsvine it's a different story. The most popular comment is from a guy calling himself "willing.sniper", who pretends that the only reason the Nazi wife beater and child abuser lost custody of his children is because he named his son Adolph Hitler.
Considering the facts in the case, and the ready availability of the facts (see link below), the ignorance displayed seems to be largely self-imposed. Mind-boggling, colossal ignorance; but self-imposed.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
The Judge-2.......really and whose list do you suppose you may be on as an undesirable, sterilize you and take your children away, perhaps there is an island or....camp.....for you. You sound more Nazi than the father in this report. It he has indeed been abusive, then the authorities should be working to assist him and his wife to control their anger and frustrations and not take them out on their children. But to preemptively remove a child at birth is about a "jackbooted" as it gets. As far as social/political views who gives a hoot, this is America, we have the RIGHTto harbor what ever views we find to mesh with our core beliefs and raise our children to share them or to find their own path. It is called diversity, remember, which is what the Nazis were against.
These may indeed be the most ignorant poor excuses for parents that the world has yet to produce. The worst part about this is the permanent stigma these children shall endure even after they've legally changed their names. They have achieved permanent child abuse without so much as having lifted a finger and are allowed to hide behind their individual 1st amendment rights while denying almost any chance of a happy and successful life for their children. There is legal precedent for removing children from a parent or parents who knowingly inflict emotional damage on their children and, I seriously doubt that even two individuals of this moral caliber, would deny that they are aware of the stigma that will follow young Adolf for his entire life. Gross and reckless indifference. Sentence=Nazi style concentration camp. Let them see what they've chose to embrace.
These parents are being held to a higher standard than other parents involved with DYFS. No physical evidence of abuse was ever detected. These parents crime is being dumb. No remediation plan was never offered. Pure politicals in New Jersey, U.S.S.R.
Ja Wohl!
Sorry, but unless the children were being physically abused, I do not agree with the court that took away their kids. Regardless of their beliefs (AND THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THEM BY THE US CONSTITUTION), this is a mockery of American justice. It is criminally wrong of the state to take children who have endured no harm from their parents.
What will be next? Thought Police? You "Do-Gooders" have no clue about the precedent this sets. This is draconian and Orwellian. Since when does the state have the right to dictate what we call our children, ourselves?
I do not agree with the parents beliefs, I hate Nazis with a passion, I hate racists with pure unbridled passion. But I WILL defend their rights to say what they want or believe what they want. Why? Because that is the DUTY of EVERY American. It is what makes our way of life and system of government the best on the planet.
To Commonsense, accepted the suggestion and read the article you cited. Though the final ruling removed the children, it seems that the court was of two minds. I t was only after "experts" testified that the court decided, experts to present a view of something other than the "states" point of view were not resented I would suspect due to the parents lack of funds to afford such testimony. A significant amount of weight was given to the "prior bad acts" of the defendant-father based on the testimony of a former spouse (who may still have an axe to grind) but those were seven years prior. Still don't really know a whole lot of the current psyche of the individuals today. I hope that the children are not split up and that their new sibling can join them and that their parents can get the help that they need to move toward reunification of their family.
As to their choice of names...allot of Georges out here, now was that George Washington or George III, Charles goes way back to Charlemagne or was it Charles II or Manson, Richard...Lion Heart or Richard III, John....the apostle or John Wilkes Booth...myself a toe headed kid in the comic strips with a dog named Ruff and a penchant for the timeout corner.......go figure. Adolf Hitler is kind of direct but may provide the impetus to live the name down and prove he is more than his name sake.
Mikespike, Yes you are right to a point but how do you think these children will be treated by other kids in our society, are they going to be outcast and end up a whack job or terrorist, will they be bullied and teased, to do what these parents did is very questionable to say the least ...
Never mind.
Die meisten von euch Posting Ihre Meinung zu diesem Thema sind nur etwa so unwissend und frei von Intelligenz als die Schwachkopf der Artikel geht. Ich bin jedes Mal las ich Ihren ignorant Beiträge krank; Ihre uninformiert und dumm Meinungen. Zum größten Teil, ihr Menschen so unglaublich schwachsinnig und falsch informiert sind, fühle ich mich als ob ich für das Lesen in den Papierkorb schreiben Sie erbrechen. Euch allen Kretins da draußen: Get a life!
bob onnit are you sure,i didn't think you could fit that up there,but if you say you've done it,OK.and yes it does mean you are absolutely homosexual,and so was your hero himmler.
Why is Bob Onnit writing in German? Doesn't he want us to understand what he is saying?
English translation, please, Mr. Onnit?
This is what Bob Onnit is saying:
Right back at ya, Bob-o. Good friend of Suckitt, are you?
i mean wow...number one....a "non neo-nazi" family with neo-nazi named children...a supposed aryan who has brown eyes...just so you know hitler would hate you...blond hair blue eyes remember..these people should be smacked just for naming their kids retarded names that is going to do nothing but cause them grief all of their life..i mean if you have some sort of respect for hitler or german lineage even if it actually exists in that family..whatever but really...adolf hitler campbell...what????? joycelynn aryan nation campbell...what a mouthfull and then poor little hans...these parents should be youthanized just for being stupid plain and simple even though i do agree they have the right to name their kids such assinine names..i think i should have the right to punch heath campbell in the face..im german and i take high offense to that just based on the stupidity the parents seem to project...the only good thing hitler did was design the volkswagon...
The Volkswagen "Beetle" was designed by Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, if I am not mistaken, not Adolph Hitler.
We have the right to free speech until it offends a lot of people now-a-days. So because there was one bad person named Adolf Hitler, no one has the right to name their kid that?
the judge-2 #2.4
There able to have children because this isn't China (yet). This is a very stupid thing to do but unless there harming there children in any way, are not seeing for there well being I don't believe the government should be involved. The names must be legal some one signed off on them at the hospital and court house. Judge I think the names are terrible at best but your suggesting the same thing Hitler did.
Please learn to spell "their", "you're", and "they're". You come off as mildly retarded, and your opinion is rendered meaningless when you can't spell second grade words.
It's not the spelling of those words...it's the proper usage that many people seem to have forgotten or had never learned.
This is Newsvine We don't need no grammar police.
We don't need no stinkin' grammar police.
I mean nothing personal here, but when you incorrectly use words like their, they're, there, your and you're, its more difficult to understand what you are saying. Period. If you want to be taken seriously, learn the proper usages of these words.
The government CANNOT take children away from parents on the basis of the "name" they choose.
And if the government agency uses that as a listed excuse, then the parents have a great court case against them.
Yes they can........THEY DID!!!!!!!!!
My guess is they list the excuse as "emotional abuse" but yeah because of the names.
They didn't:
"The state took custody of the couple’s other children nearly two years ago, saying there were in danger because of previous violence in the Campbell home, The Associated Press has reported."
Now whether they made up the claim of previous violence or not is a different story, but officially they didn't take them away because of the names.
Looks like people are not bothering to read past the headline. Though in fairness, the headline is misleading. It's an issue of domestic violence; the family can name the children whatever they want.
Just to be clear, I have no idea if they made up the violence story or not, I am not making the claim that they did. I have no idea, have not researched it and do not know one way or the other, and do not care to, these people have already gotten more attention than they deserve, so please do not flame me for making a false assumption, thank you.
Good luck getting a sypathetic judge or jury in what you call a 'great' court case. I wouldn't take it on a contingency fee if I were you. Lol. You are clearly not an attorney.
It was a "name" on a birthday cake that started the entire thing. Yes, this couple has an excellent case to sue for the return of thier children.
the state did not change the children's names after taking them from the parents if that was the reason
Wow, what a poorly written article. It clearly states the first three children were removed due to violence in the home and that is why the newborn was taken away, yet the opening statement claims they were all taken away due to the name choices. Which is it, Rick? Or maybe the parents claim the children were taken away due to the name choices when in reality they abuse their children? If you really think the parents have a case of discrimination and the charges were fabricated, where's the rest of your story?
You really think that there are no other facts in this case beyond the names of the kids? not to mention four kids....are they even capable of taking care of them or are they destined to became another welfare case supported by the taxpayers?
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
Commonsense, thanks for the update. Changed my mind already lol.
PLEASE get informed BEFORE you defend these people! READ THE COURT DOCS!! at lawlibrary dot rutgers dot edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09 dot opn dot html They should NEVER be allowed to parent any child!!
Nikki,
I am glad you changed your mind. Many of us posters express our opinions, but will never concede a good point.
Willing.Sniper
I read the court documents that Shucklack posted in a previous comment. The mother wrote a note saying that she was afraid her husband was going to kill her. In the note she asked that an autopsy be performed on her if she died because she was sure her husband was going to kill her. She gave that note to her neighbor, they shared a duplex. Later when child services came to her home she denied writing the letter, claiming that the neighbor wrote it. During the court hearings she admitted she wrote the note, and gave two conflicting reasons for writing it.
This didn't start with a birthday cake. It started when their neighbor called child services after receiving the very disturbing note. Child services offered to take the mother to a safe place away from her husband and she said no. After they informed her they would be taking the children, they asked her again if she would go with them to a safe place. She responded angrily, asking if she had to choose between her husband and her kids. Finally she said, "Take them". Why wouldn't she want to be with her kids? Is it that she loves her husband that much more than her three children? Or is she so afraid of her husband that she can't leave him. I don't know, but her actions seem pretty weird.
There are more details in the court documents if you are willing to read them. Child services did their job, they went to the home, found it an unsafe place for children and took them away. Good for them. If the children weren't named after Nazis this wouldn't even be in the news. That's why the article focuses on their names and not on the "violence" because, in this case, the children's names make for a more sensational news story than just another case of child endangerment and domestic abuse.
Nikki, thanks so much. I'm really touched.
what a joke these two are, yes im talking about you Heath and Deborah.. why in the hell would you willingly name your child after one of the most hated tyrants in the world if your not a neo-natzi, and continue to use the names of pathetic excuses for humans for your other kids? idiots.. just total frikin idiots.. both of them.. i hope your oldest grows up and beats your dumb stupid a$$e$
What I found interesting was that they said they weren't neo-nazis...but then you have the kids' names...and the swastika that was carved into a skull that they had (when the story first came out).
I read the court document. There is no proof of physical abuse against the children. It even stresses that no sign of physical abuse was found. The majority of the document is based on a neighbor who claimed the couple argued although she could not hear the arguments. Later the wife wrote a letter that her husband will kill her and give it to the same neighbor. When I was pregnant me and my husband yelled and said horrible things to each other. They are obviously poor parents but I did not read anything in the artice that made me feel the infant should have been taken away at the hospital. None of his other children were harmed physically. Many kids grow up in verbally abusive homes. Many also grow up with domestic violence. I think this case is biased because of the names they chose for their children. I bet if thier kids names were Amy, Sam, Joe, the state would have made more of an effort to work with them and keep the children at home.
They were taken due to alleged violence. I don't see any evidence of it. But "common sense" shows quite clearly that a judge sympathetic to the ulterior motive will let the state take the children on a false pretext with a wink and a nod.
What is the most shocking is that they removed the baby just a few hours after it was born. I'm a mother and I can't imagine my baby being taken away right after birth. I just wanted to hold my child. Unless you give your child up for adoption the first few hours with your child mean the world to the mother and child. This woman did not kill anybody or physically abuse her other children. How could she not be allowed to bond with her own flesh and blood so long as they where in the hospital. She might not be a good mom but she did not deserve to have her baby taken from her in the hospital.
God......you people who think that the state is in a conspiracy to take children away from parents are NUTS. I worked in dependency/juvenile court for years and believe me the last thing they want to do is put kids into an already overcrowded system with strangers. The judges work desperately to find relatives for placement first...ie. grandma, aunts, uncles etc., if there is no other family...the kids go to foster care, and then the judges do everything in their power to try to reunite the kids with the parents. If the parents do a few simple things: child rearing classes, drug rehab, etc.....they can get their kids back in a heartbeat. Most of these deadbeats don't care enough to do these things for their own flesh and blood. The ultimate goal of all dependency court cases is the reunification of the family. I've seen judges return kids to the poorest people you've ever seen...I've heard them say "this parent....has taken the parenting class... and learned from it....I don't care if they are poor and live in a box...as long as they have learned how to take care of their child and the love is there.....we are returning the child. I have also seen a few parents who have made it through drug rehab... and I've watched judges cry when the parent was given their child back.
One more point...for all you who think the children shouldn't have been taken....the ex-wife left this guy because of violence....to her and the kids... child services knows how dangerous this nut case is.....and if the kids weren't taken away and somthing happened you all would be the first to scream about these kids NOT being taken out of the house.
They were taken because of the physical and emotional abuse they were forced to witness in their home. When a child of 3 or 4 is violent to other children and toward adults, calls women "bitch" etc, it comes from exposure and that IS abuse. That is why they were taken and should not be given back. Like another poster said - it had nothing to do with what name their parents chose to give them (which is abuse in my book) and had it not been for their names, this would not be in the paper.
They could have named him Joshua, but then Joshua was a genocidial warrior who wiped out towns killing all men women children and animals. I suppose that was a longer time ago so it's okay. Or are we a little too hypocritical to notice the irony.
Give me a break. Lets face it, in this country the name Adolf Hitler is not a common name and most people here that hear it associate it with THE Adolf Hitler. You people who are suggesting that names like George and Joshua also have darker pasts and we should connect those names with those people are being ridiculous considering they are extremely popular names here. Lots of people share names with people who have done evil things but being common they are not immediately associated with evil people. To you Charles, should we assume your parents were fans of Charles Manson?
Spoken like a true nazi.
They didn't even let the newborn bond with it's mother. They just have it in for this couple. I would try to find a lawyer & sue them. It's BS they can get away with this.
So neo-nazis are not deserving to raise childeren? US Constitution anyone?
Oy. Yes, they can be neo-Nazis. Yes, they can name their child Hitler. They can NOT physically abuse their children. Please read the entire story, which is the shortest blurb of a story every seen on this web site, before getting all indignant.
"The state took custody of the couple’s other children nearly two years ago, saying there were in danger because of previous violence in the Campbell home, The Associated Press has reported."
I don't think the US constitution is there to protect such people. Law abiding citizens deserve protection; these people deserve our attention and scrutiny. There is more to that belief that meets the eyes. They are the pains of society and for them to raise children in that environment is not acceptable. There is a perfect example of people who should be sterilized. As I recall, Hitler had his people sterilize children, torture them and use them as lab rats. Now we are trying to save the rats from such misery. Society has come a long way but we have still a long way to go. To tolerate such people and their damaging lifestyles is not an option. I am sure the FBI has them in a "bubble". They are dragging society to a level we do not want to go to. The names draw attention but the behavior of these people is what has caused them to lose their kids. Abuse ! Neglect !
The US constitution is there to protect precisely such people as these. The fact that you do not agree with their name choices, their lifestyle or their philosophy has no bearing on their constitutional rights. As far as Hitler and the Nazis civil rights proposals, they either sterilized or disposed of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, political enemies and those deemed disabled. They made these choices in sterilization and elimination in order, by their lights, to improve the possibilities of a better society. Sounds a whole lot like your argument here. What is germain to this discussion is whether these parents, in their treatment of their children, abrogated their responsibilities as parents to provide as best they can for them. If they have then the state traditionally has had a responsibility to provide that which the parents cannot. Thankfully, we all are not judged and bound by what you deem right, proper and civilized.
Well said ohhnho! It's a very fine line the state is treading on when it decided to take into custody the newborn child.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
This link from 3.10 is a really good read about the "loving family"
Which part of the Constitution do you mistakenly think gives a man the right to stab his wife with a screwdriver or abuse his children?
Forget about raising, these morons should'nt even have children. It's devils like this who keep racism alive in america.
Are you saying that kind of behavior is protected by "freedom of speech"?
Is that a good way to raise a child?
Didn't think so.
There's clearly more to this than the article is talking about. It is illegal to take away a kid just based on name since that should be protected either by freedom of speech or the implied right to privacy. They just included the Nazi part to get headlines, or else no one would read about abusive parents who lost their kids
Agreed, Porkchop. Example from a few days ago: Woman injects woman with cement, mineral oil, and fix-a-flat sealant in illegal cosmetic surgery.
Interested? How about this: TRANSGENDERED woman injects woman with cement, mineral oil, and fix-a-flat sealant in illegal cosmetic surgery. Now it sounds more interesting.
Another: boy dies after smoking synthetic pot out of pez dispenser. Nah, doesn't sound edgy enough. So they changed it to: Boy dies after smoking synthetic pot. This headline makes you assume that the synthetic pot killed him (in reality, it was the toxins from the burning plastic).
Commonsense; Not to belabour the point, but these are prior bad acts already adjudicated, resulted in the dissolution of a previous marriage. Thus not particularly relevant to this case, except perhaps as rebuttal. Your apparant quote is from the earlier divorce in 2002. Having read the decision you recommended, still stand by my contention that the state is over-reaching. As most of us do not have the resources to fight city hall, we all loose in cases like this. You, me a friend or relative may find themselves facing similar insurmountable odds, what to do then, roll over, play dead or just plain give up. NO Fight back, the "kidnapping" of the new born is more inexcusable than the states "kidnapping" of the three other children. In this as well as in so many other aspects of our daily lives the state is becoming the jackbooted monster friends, brothers, uncles, fathers and grandfathers as well as we ourselves have fought from Normandy and Guadalcanal, Korea and Viet Nam, the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan. The state knows best and Oh, but we have a law and a university study........The state knows best we will raise the kids, you just have to work and have fun...I fear that is the end game, and it is all so good untill they come knocking on your door.
dcivy:
If the ex-wife's testimony was the only evidence they had then yes, I'd say that the court was overreaching. But that testimony was gathered only AFTER a mountain of other evidence had been gathered regarding his current abuse, including recordings of fights where you can hear the abuse, a hand-written letter in which the mother states she expects to be killed by her husband, violent behavior from the children which just so happens to perfectly mirror that alleged in the testimony by both the neighbor and the ex-wife, and numerous medical experts conclusions that the relationship was highly abusive and dangerous for the children.
Abuse cases are always tricky because oftentimes victims do not act rationally or in their own interests. But there are signs we can look for to tell when this is going on, and this case is a textbook example if I've ever seen one. Also note that the husband hasn't even taken the time to show up in court, instead sending his wife alone. Hardly sounds like a couple that's doing "everything they can" to get their kids back. And yet, despite all that, the deliberations are still going on as to if they are fit to be parents. I'd say that's pretty amazingly lenient myself, definitely more lenient than I would be if it were up to me to decide what happens here. What's more, how could you possibly argue that these people are fit to care for a newborn if they're not fit to care for their older children? If anything that child was probably in even more danger than their previous three. The only sensible thing to do is to make sure that the baby is safe until the truth has come out. The mother has already been offered a chance to be with her children, and declined. I'm sure that door is still open for her.
In short, the jackbooted thugs you refer to aren't the ones taking the children away here. It's the childrens' father.
Where does it say that anywhere? We are talking about abusive people that are not giving their children a safe environment to grow up in! It has nothing to do with the names it has everything to do with the media veering away from the TRUE story because it wasn't as "interesting". DO you think mass murderers have a right to raise children? (Just curious)
And to the person that was so "heartbroken" over a baby being taken away from his mother right after birth I have to say that surprises me. I am a mother and I can honestly say that I would have wanted them to take my baby away if I knew they were going to be coming home to an unsafe environment. I love my babies too much I guess.
Sorry my first comment was to Max 108
@ ohhnho:
What is germain to this discussion is whether these parents, in their treatment of their children, abrogated their responsibilities as parents to provide as best they can for them. If they have then the state traditionally has had a responsibility to provide that which the parents cannot.
If you had read the court decision, it was determined that this couple is not capable of providing for their children, most especially when it comes to the way they treat them. Hence, as you say, the state has a responsibility to provide that which the parents cannot. Letting them anywhere near that newborn would be a travesty!
WHAT?!! Now the government can take your kids because you give them un PC names? When did that happen? Are they going to take away the ALL the kids named after monarchs and dictators too? Bad news if you named your kid Elizibeth or George. How about the thousands of American kids named Muhamed?
Are you really going to sit there and equate naming a child George with naming one Adolf Hitler...really??
There's a difference between non-pc and hateful and offensive, fyi.
Mgodard
Your thinking is almost good, emphasis on ALMOST. These parents named their kid not only Adolf, but also Hitler, which just happens to be the last name (family name) of one of the most despicable men in world history, who just happened to do away with masses of Jews, Gipsies, political adversaries, etc. The opinions would be different if they would have only named him Adolf. This doesn't exactly look like they are much concerned with the well-being and the safety of their child, who will more than likely grow up to be one of the most hated kids ever in US history. Unless he changes his name when he reaches the legal age. Don't think he will be thankful to his parents, regardless of his own ideological / political beliefs.
They certainly need to take away any kid who gets cursed with the name 'Barack'!
The only thing more goofy than your post, mgodard, is the fact that people keep voting it up.
The naming had everything to do with why this story is even being reported - but it has NOTHING to do with the removal of the children.
Sheesh - we really are becoming a country of knee-jerk reactions, little actual thought and comprehension about even the most simple of things. Exhibit A: Congress.
The names were the flag ! evidently these people were investigated and proven to be misfit as parents. It was not simply the names.....that would not be enough. They are thorns in our society....likely were raised that way.
I Bet There Will Be Parents Naming Their Kids Saddam Or Bin-Laden It's Sick I Agree But We Do Have Freedom Of Speech In This Country I Do Not Agree With Parents Naming Their Kids After Extremist.
There Have Been Sicko's That Have Named Their Kid After Charles Manson Got To Keep The Kid
What Were They Thinking Those Poor KIDS .....
Elvoid, you beat me to it. Good comment.
These two were/are idiots and they would not be able to teach their children anything productive in this world. They needed to be taken away. If you have taken the time to read some of the court records you would not be spewing that these poor children got taken away from their deserving parents. These parents have no education, no jobs an no contribution to society. They need to stop breeding. Naming their kids whatever they want is truly the least of their worries.
Texas tried that with those 183 sect members, and after 14 million dollars later in legal fees they LOST! The taxpayers paid dearly for there mistakes.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
It has nothing to do about the names of the children.
When you actually read the entire legal opinion (case) , and comprehend it, it is beyond me why their kids were not taken away from them earlier. This couple, based upon the legal opinion, and my own non-legal opinion, which is unenforceable, make the point of mandatory sterilization for each of the two "adults". They are the exact type of couple that will do nothing but cause harm and alarm to whatever community in which they reside.
And yes, for those of you who are historically sharp, I understand the irony of what I have just typed - and it's intended that way.
Transcript of a letter written by the mother and surreptitiously handed to a neighbor.
But some people seem to think that as long as you name your kid Adolph Hitler, you ought to be ALLOWED to stab your wife with a screwdriver.
But it's OKAY to do those things as long as you name your child Adolph Hitler, right?
why isnt this fk turd in jail for life??? a man (and i use that term very very losely) like that should have his gonads cut off and shoved down his throat then have his mouth stiched shut for good! what a pathetic excuse for a human...
Child Protective Specialist is a thankless job, and a critical one at that since many people are blinded to the abusive, negligent, and horrific acts perpetrated against children. Child welfare laws exit for a reason and, still, occurences like those that transpired at Penn State proves that such laws must be reinforced. This case clearly demonstrates that despite the sense of entitlement adults feel as parents, we have to get beyond pretending that all parents want to be parents and that they "deserve" to be heard over the rights and well-being of their children.
Why would you name your child a name that will subject them to ridicule?
They may not be neo-Nazis.....but they are beyond doubt coo coo for cocoa puffs.
Morons and sickos like this don't deserve the publicity and attention that this is getting them...too bad we can't sterilize these offensive louts (of course, which one would you...?). Yeah they're not neo Nazis--just big fans!
You say sterilize them. On what grounds? Just because they may be Nazi fans? And what does that make you? You advocate conformity. If you don't conform you will be not allowed to have children. This sparks facism. Last I knew this is the United States. While our system is not perfect it is better than most others. While I don't agree with this family for the names they chose for their children I will defend their right to do so! Shame on you!
ummm....do you not see the irony in your statement. The final solution started with sterilization. Zappa named his kids Dweezil and Moon-Unit...the Duggars can stop spitting out kids do we control that also? I just hope these kids grow and learn and discover their parents were being sensationalists when giving their names and legally change them later in life. Taking them away because of a given name is just a little to far. Do we arrest men for having a Hitler mustache?
StevenB-1414634: go read the court transcripts, then make ur comments..
SumFunGi - ditto ^ ^
Morons. Absolute idiots. Yes - you can name your kid anything you want. You have that right. I respect your right - to be a moron. My only regret is that you obtain the ability to breed.
sterilization is a simple need society needs to investigate...for the benefit of all of us. How can we afford to protect the propagation of these people ? Medicaid, food stamps, social security .....please.....
I guess you missed this story- http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/07/8640744-victims-speak-out-about-north-carolina-sterilization-program-which-targeted-women-young-girls-and-blacks
Of course the question you have failed to ask yourself is just exactly which part of "society" gets to decide who to sterilize and who not to.
You need to go stand in the corner with the guy who named his kid Adolph Hitler.
@ alumette: What you're talking about is Eugenics and it has been done before in this country. It is also one of the most disgusting ideas I have ever heard and I am ashamed that it was ever passed into law in the United States of America. Sterilizing people against their will is wrong no matter what your intended result may be. Hopefully you weren't being serious when you said they should be sterilized but if you were you need to grow up.
So people paid for those benefits or so called entitlements and it is supposedly wrong to collect what we paid for, are you for real ..... Or maybe you are the free loader here ...
alumette, I think you should read a book called War Against the Weak, by Edwin Black. It deals with eugenics & the effects on the lives of everyone.
So what the police state is saying if you have previous violence in your home we are taking your kids with out a warrant.
Oh give it a rest. Seriously.
Sounds reasonable to me - you beat your kids, you don't get any more...
actually cannabinoids is correct Stephen I read the attached article which states:
also in that article there was no mention of any kind of history of violence other than:
notice it says previous not current?
and on a side note:
So I believe it has everything to do with what they named their children, as horrid as the names are it's not illegal, heck I have a friend who named her son Caco Daemon after the Deicide song with the lyrics "Satan's spawn the Caco Daemon" there's that old saying "No accounting for taste said the lady as she kissed the cow"
Scratch my above post I just read the link provided by JrzWrld and have changed my opinion.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
Excellent, nice to see some people can in fact change their minds when presented with facts! Thanks for the followup 1SGFitzsWife4ID.
I read the link by JrzWrld too. You get my "reasonableness when presented with new information" award. I wish some others would do the same. These people (especially the father) are a mess. Wouldn't matter if the kid was named John Doe, there were ISSUES in that household.
I believe that Hitler was great world leader. The parent have the right to name any one, any name. Except the person of the name deny it. The USA govenment has taken people right away. Our congressmem no longer fight for the people. They are only need their post to earn theirs living. Every politcal in the media only talk about sex politic.
I believe that if YOU believe that Hitler was a great world leader, I want nothing to do with you. If you work for me, you are fired. I would not do business with you, and would shun you in every way I could. I would watch you with suspicion, because with a belief like that, I would fear my own safety and that of my family. Hitler was one of the worst monsters the human race has ever produced. He slaughtered over 12 million people during WWII. Not criminals, not enemy combatants, but people who had the wrong religion, the wrong race, the wrong sexual orientation, or the wrong political belief. Hitler was the polar opposite of a great leader.
So, Dennis, you are saying that, if you find out that someone has certain beliefs that you don't like, you will do your best to see that they die horrible deaths. They don't have to do anyting but hold the belief. What's your objection to Hitler beyond the fact that he held more power than you again?
Mr. Lee, Hitler was a great leader just like Hideki Tojo was.
what's really amazing is that most asians will recoil in horror and disgust at the military leader of WWII Japan, and utterly fail realize that Hitler was at least as bad.
I am of the belief that we are too tolerant of the intolerant. By minimizing the monstosity of Hitler and his Nazi goons, you work to ensure that it happens again. The wholesale slaughter of civilians must never again be allowed to happen.
And I never said I would do my best to see that they died horrible deaths. However I would do everything within my legal power to hamper them in everything they do that crossed MY path.
Dennis:
Mmhmm. And if you were the target of that, with the changing of a few laws (there are people who have the legal power to do that) you would find yourself dying a horrible death. My statement stands. So I make a slight adjustment to my question. What's your objection to Hitler beyond the fact that he had more legal power power than you again? There were certain groups of people that he didn't care for. And he did everything within his legal power to hamper them in everything they did that crossed his path. He just had a large path. You don't like them. So you don't let them live their lives in peace. You want to hamper them in what they do.
pvblvis, hitler's "path" included systematic, mass genocide, I guess that's OK with you?
some things are simply too evil to allow to resurface.
Danwill:
Direct your target at Dennis, or, for that matter, anyone who supports removing a child from the parents on the basis of the name given. Those are the ones who are choosing Hitler's path.
The way these parents have named their children is stupid. But the people supporting the removal are the ones allowing the evil that was Hitler's totalitarian regime to resurface.
So, no, Hitler's path is not okay with me. It is evidently okay with Dennis. He agrees with it 100 percent. My question to him about what his objection to Hitler was is based on the fact that he is acting just like the fellow, just with less enforcement power.
Well, they are from New Jersey.
Should there be a requirement for a breeding license in some states?
The fact that they are from NJ is why the children are being protected from abuse. Even with a republican governor, it remains one of the few genuinely progressive states.
Yeah the last Governor we had here in NJ is under FBI investigation for missing 1.2 BIllion dollars from his investment company.
For anyone thinking the NAMES were the cause of the removal, you should read this:
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
Those kids didn't stand a chance in that house. I only wish more was being done to get other kids out of similar situations. The only reason things got stepped up with this family was because they drew attention to themselves.
JrzWrld:
Thanks for the link. What a sad commentary that the news only ran with this story because these two totally unfit parents chose a name that is offensive in the extreme.
The court's reasoning was absolutely correct. I can only imagine the news story(ies) we would read had those children remained in that "home".
Wow! That's some interesting reading. The kids' names did not even enter into the decision.
Thank you.
That's pretty distressing. These people should never have children. How many unfortunates has this illiterate, psychologically and physically handicapped, abused man cursed with his genes? I hope they can all someday manage to get past their origins and become healthy happy humans.
Thank you for that link JrzWrld
Sadly, it seems most of the people who post here can't be bothered to read the news article. The alternative is they are incapabable of comprehending it. I doubt they would read (or grasp the point of) a legal brief....
JrzWrld
After reading the information at the link you have provided about the court case, I have to conclude the court acted correctly, and perhaps prevented a second Andrea Yates case from happening. Either the father or the mother (although I believe more the father than the mother) could have harmed the entire family. In the Andrea Yates case, everybody let down the mentally ill mother, and at the least, underestimated the danger her mental illness meant for the kids. From the social worker to the treating physicians. In this current case, at least they did something to try to help these kids before something bad could have happened (which may or may not have happened, but why take the risk?).
wow. just wow.
the letter from the mother to the neighbor, beyond a doubt reassures me that removing this kids from that environment will hopefully break a nasty vicious uneducated cycle.
maybe it's not right, from that perspective - but violence isnt just physical, it's emotional as well.
if she could write a letter like that, from a place of fear...get the kids out.
if she could write a letter like that, from a place of manipulation like she contended....get the kids out.
The names, are just insane icing on the top of this nutfilled cake.
Thank you for providing this link, it has changed my complete opinion.
Well I think this link says it all. Read the facts people, these two are probably not qualified to take care of themselves. And the court documents clearly show a history of domestic abuse and threats of violence, as well as the fact that the kids that were in the home were already showing disturbing signs of violence and developmental disabilities. That being said, personally I think if you name your child Adolf Hitler you are an f-ing idiot and should surrender your parental rights on sheer stupidity. There are enough stupid people in the world.
Wow! This just enforces my views of education. This is what happens when people lack availability to education and consequently therapy for mental issues. Unfortunately, this happens far more than we know. It is a destructive cycle. Likely, their parents were uneducated and thus, mental issues arose from it. They, then passed that environment on to their children with similar results. And now, they, (the current parents in question) are passing that environment on to another generation. It is critical to break that cycle.
I particularly like how she spelled 'threatened' as "thrend".... took me a few moments to figure out that phonetic spelling.
JrzWrld - thanks for the link. It provides a lot more information. The parents were both abused as kids themselves, both uneducated, the father can't read, neither are employed, the father has a pretty serious history of abuse with a former wife who had to flee from him and get a restraining order that's still in effect. He drove her around showing her where he would bury her after he killed her, and also threatened to make their son stab her to death since a little boy wouldn't be charged with a crime. Sick. Their poor kids are already showing the effects of the home life, calling teachers "bitch" and hurting other children.
So clearly, there is more than a vague claim of violence that some of you believe was made up in order to take these kids away because of their names. Although in my opinion, strapping innocent children with such controversial and horribly associated names is practically tantamount to abuse itself. Abuse is usually learned behavior. And in most situations, there is some cause and effect, some "reason" the abuser flies off the handle and starts in on you. However ridiculous the reason, there's a reason: you misbehaved, you looked at them wrong, there is something that provokes it. And it's easier to deal with and adjust to adversity if you at least have a context and understanding. But these kids won't even have the chance to provoke people, they will do so just by existing. So these kids will end up enduring abuse that will seem unprovoked, which is harder to understand and cope with. They can't avoid the abuse by changing behavior, so it will cause more resentment and anger. =
thank you for the link, this stands out as classic domestic abuse and i actually feel bad about the wife. I can't help but think that thank God we have a system in place for the children and the mother and even the father. the entire family desperately needs major help. It was right to take those kids away and the parents need psychological help so they too can heal from their own past trauma. I just hope it's not too late for everyone involved to get the therapy they need to live a more safe and loving life. thank God as well for the neighbor who got involved. she saved their lives.
Jrz, thanks for the link. Now thats good reporting, Changed my opinion!
Not to be preachy, but a couple of things I would like to point out:
1) Child protection services can rarely give out extensive information regarding child welfare cases. They are bound by significant legal restrictions about what they can say publicly. This is to protect the children. The parents can usually say whatever they want. When my ex was trying to get custody of his kid, they couldn't even tell us what the bio mom's mental health results were, even though they clearly wanted to.
2) Is it really so hard to believe that parents that would name their children after famous Nazis are going to be failures in other areas of parenting? It's not a reason to take those kids away, but it sure as heck is a red flag that there might be other problems.
JRZ world,
When I was a child abuse investigator, in many cases it was against policy to say the most obvious thing. I had a 2 year old with a broken pelvis from the dad's babysitting. Bone scans of the older kids showed healed unreported fractures. The family lawyered up, their church supported the abuser and vilified the state. The man confessed to the preacher, who told us confidentially, but did not rescind his call to support the family.In the media, the state was the villian. When the family lost due to evidence, it was not a news story. During a supervised visit, the father, his parents, the mom,and two social workers were in the room. Everyone knew the father did it except the mom.
A person can call it a nanny state if they like, but adults expect protections in their public and private time. If a woman calls and says a man is beating her, the police can come on his property, and we do not say "Who gives us the right to trespass on his property?"
Now if the jokers who've been replying up on the first comment supporting the parents would just bother to read your link.....anyways, Thank you JRZworld.
That was very hard to read. I cant imagine what ALL of those children have gone thru. How horrible. Thanks for the link JRZworld.
To bad the funding for women children and families will end up being cut due to republican tactics in the federal government resulting in losses at the state level.
And to all you folks proclaiming 'The state can take your kids because of what you name them," please take a remedial reading comprehension class. The naming of the kids is what made the media run with the story - but for that, we never would have heard of these idiots. The reason they took the kids is clearly stated above as "The state took custody of the couple’s other children nearly two years ago, saying there were in danger because of previous violence in the Campbell home, The Associated Press has reported."
And yes, they deny that and are fighting that. Happens every day, sadly.
Thank-you.
People are so ignorant. They completely missed the most important part of the story.
Mr MacD - i get the feeling it's intentional on the part of MSNBC and other news outlets to bury the most important part of the article in a one line blurb.
Naturally, most readers are going to downplay the influence of that part of this story - given the fact that msnbc downplayed it too, and hyped of the naming of the kids - and even gave more ink to the mother protesting her baby being taken away all because she named her kid something offensive that their priest signed off on...
reading comprehension is helpful, I certainly caught it - but this article gave the impression those claims were unfounded, that people made up those claims simply because they didnt like these inbreds naming their kids highly offensive names.
If you read the affidavit, thats not even remotely close to true...
shame on MSNBC for intentionally misleading people into thinking this story is something other than what it truly is....a case of crappy parents sucking at life and rightfully so losing custody of their current and all future children.
they should think of their childrens' future by giving them more appropriate names. also there's violence in the home so that's the reason for them being taken away not because of their names.
the names were also a component to revealing what the vibration was in that house.
With little or no education, I was surprised they knew some of these names. Going back to the no jobs for either it's no wonder they spent their time having sex and creating more babies.
vibrating houses?
Yeah right, they're not neo-Nazis.
And the Pope ain't Catholic, Santa Claus is real, and the US Congress will get its act together in my lifetime.
Right, little Adolf, Aryan Nation, Hinler were just family names.
I can only asume that little Hons was named after Hans Hube - then again, spelling is not these people's strong suit.
Well the sole amusing part of this whole thing is that the parents - physically disabled, unemployed, mentally handicapped - would be the first ones in the ovens in Hitler's Germany. They seem oblivious to this fact. I've found this to be the case with most white supremacists - they tend to be the ones who, if they were purebred dogs, would be the first eliminated from any reputable breeding program. When the color of your skin is primarily what you're deriving your self-esteem and self-worth from, you've kind of hit a nadir.
in a free society, you can be a neo-nazi or a paleo-nazi or whatever else you may choose, without the interference of illegitimate authorityu
So the folks name their kids with offensive names but the state officials in New Jersey take the mantle of Nazism upon their shoulders and take the child away without a warrant. If you are going to persecute someone don't act like to same evil you claim you are supposedly fighting.
I honestly think the State did them a favor in changing those names for them. Can you imagine going through school and life with a horrible name like that? you're really not helping that child AT ALL, just making life that's difficult as it is, moreso.
You provide excellent proof of your chosen screen name. Read it again - and look for the official court opinion posted here by someone else explaining their loss of custody of their children. The names had nothing d to do with it, and the court's opinion clearly justifies removal of their children.
Read JrzWrld's link at # 11.
I believe that what
commonsenseaintcommon is against is the fact that the children were taken from the hospital without a warrant. Due process is absolutely nesessary in the case case of taking children away from their parents for any reason, even in the case of previous domestic violence. If we do away with that due process then we take the first steps toward the same fascist government that so many here are crying out against. Let's not forget that the Nazi regime took children away from those deemed not worthy of having them without due process as well. That being said, I fully believe that taking the children away is the correct thing to do, not only because of the documented domestic violence and abuse as JrzWrld so well researched and provided a link to, but also because that giving children names such as this is a form of abuse as well. Not so much physical as it is mental and emotional. If these names aren't changed then they are set up to go through the ridicule and bullying that so many other children have endured to the point of becoming either suicidal or worse, becoming so disturbed as to become another group of children capable of yet another school shooting. If you believe differently, then try to remember back to your school days and think of just how cruel other kids were due to lesser things. To think that this wont happen in grade school is absurd as well. Just because WWII and the holocaust aren't taught until Jr High or High School does not mean that the parents of other children won't teach their children about it and encourage them to hate when they find out the names of the children in this article. This is just my honest opinion here. I'm done with my rant now.
Sorry, I misspoke myself. It was only one child taken from the hospital.
The child wasn't taken from the hospital. The child is still in the hospital, and the parents are banned from seeing the child. And after what they did to their other children, they shouldn't have the chance to ruin this one.
nah, I'm not a neo-nazi......just cause my kid is named after Hitler and my dog here, Rommel....why would you think I'm a neo nazi
HEIL!
the couple denied that they're neo nazi? lol wow. so how do you account for the swastika tattoos, the naming of the children and the violence reported earlier? that doesnt sound quaker-esque to me, o contraire.
Just more proof of the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party. Yeah you have freedom with them, as long as it agrees with their BS PC viewpoint. This would NEVER happen in a Red state, where people are truly free.
People are free to beat their children in red states? Huh, TIL.
Way to twist this story to better suit your liberal viewpoints. Not once did it say that the kids were beaten. It said the state took custody because of previous violence in the household. Didn't mention violence towards the kids or others.
They were not removed because of their names. They were removed because of violence in the home.
Is it really that hard to believe that someone who names their child Adolf Hitler may have violent tendencies? he names do not mean they are guilty, but if the state found sufficient proof to legally remove the kids because of violence, I don't see what the problem is.
Yes, a violent household definitely seems safe for children - damn liberals for thinking otherwise.
Where is the proof of this violent household?
RealAmericanPatriot
Want proof? Read this...
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
Wow! The irony in this post is delicious:
1) Last time I looked NJ had a Republican Governor (and a darling of the right to boot)
2) Last time I looked real american patriots were fighting Nazis
3) Red states where the people are free - as long as your freedom to chose is pro-life and your freedom of religion is Judeo-Christian.
New Jersey is a Red state, or so I thought?
Republican governor doesn't make it a red state, Democrats usually always win NJ. Also, Patriots fight for freedom, this includes naming your kid what you want to without fear of the government taking it away. And yes Red states do not believe in the right to kill a person, whether they be born or not.
Finally, Uchucky99, thank you for the proof, it was not provided in the article, which is why I asked for it.
"...Red states do not believe in the right to kill person, whether they be born or not." Does that include the death penalty? Don't think so. Not in my state anyway. (I happen to in favor of the death penalty being used more often AND I'm pro-choice. They are unrelated for the most part)
As for naming your kid whatever you want... In this case that IS abuse, just not physical. But a history of violence in the house, towards the children or not, is a valid reason to remove children. Abuse comes in many forms and some of the worst does not involve ever leaving a physical mark.
RA Pat do your homework, and you will find what everyone is telling you is documented.
That is an adorable little boy. Maybe he'll grow up to be the world's biggest philanthropist. A name is just a chain of letters after all. At any rate, no matter how this story ends, I can only hope these children have a chance at a wonderful life.
A name is just a chain of letters, but there are studies out there showing that the name you are given can have a huge influence on your life, especially if it is an unusual or offensive name. Unfortunately, if you read more into the past of the family and other issues, you find that the boy by the age of three was already calling women bitches and lashing out much more violently at people that would be appropriate for a boy his age, including threatening to kill his sister. These are things you don't learn in a healthy home, and so I hope he never goes back to it, and gets years of proper therapy to help him overcome his childhood. And I hope his name gets changed.
Based on the legal findings from when the other children were removed from the household, it seems this beautiful child will have a much better chance at a decent life away from the birth parents. Uneducated - the father can't even read - victims of abuse who have never received counseling, psychologically unfit to hold jobs, raising children who attempt violence against others and who are completely disrespectful to adults, children who have speech delays but who are refused services because "the mother can understand them", parents who accuse each other of violence, a mother who writes a note to a neighbor about what to do when her husband kills her, a father who brutalized his previous wife - this kids have much more going against them than just their names.
Big Brother is alive and well and coming to your house soon........Bill of Rights be damned, where is the ACLU?
They were removed for violence-not the names. Read the article.
And, for the record-the ACLU would support the family's right to name the child-but not the violence for which they were actually removed.
for relevance.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
The supposed violence was two years ago and between husband and wife, it didn't involve abusing children and it has nothing to do with their new baby at all.......
CLAIMED violence - the arrogant authoritarians presented neither proof nor evidence of such
And yet, the father threatened to harm the mother. Apparently stabbed her with a screwdriver (if I read it correctly). The mother made a note and gave it to the neighbor that if anything happened to her, chances are that her husband killed her. When it was brought up in court, the mother denied it...then later admitted that she did write it.
...Yup, let's leave the kids with this 'functioning' family. <sarcasm>
Get your head out of the sand, nycguy. A three year old boy doesn't learn how to make death threats by himself. Oh, and "it was between husband and wife"... it is NEVER just between husband and wife when there are children in the home! Any child that sees and hears abuse between a husband and wife will be scarred for life just by WITNESSING it you IDIOT!!!!
They have denied that they are Neo-Nazi but it is quite evident that they Neo-Moron.
whatever they are, it's not for you, nor a neo-zionist Jew judge to determine
Police state. Pepper spray the citizens, take their children, outsource the jobs bail, out the rich.
I would normally agree with you, but this is one case where the state was absolutely correct in removing the children.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
I guess that means naming my child "Obama Is An Idiot" is out of the question then.
As far as the "Idiot" part, wouldn't that make your child a "Jr." too?
They have the right afforded them under the constitution to name their children what they want and believe how they choose to believe. CLEARLY, the state has overstepped their boundaries and it is my sincerest hope that this young couple files a lawsuit immediately for the return of their child complete with punitive damages. I don't agree with the names, but this is none of my or your business!!!!!
They were removed for VIOLENCE! People need to read the article before posting!
God god, they were removed because of violence and abuse.
I agree , VIOLENCE was it.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
Situation should be investigated.
We aren't being given all the facts, clearly, but if these people are being punished for the name of their child only, they should get them back.
A lot of people want to use the word freedom to justify government actions, but want to deny the actual freedoms the nation is founded on.
And just to be exceptionally clear: history doesn't judge Adolf Hitler because he had a bad name. It judges him because he and his government violated human rights (to say the least).
Why does this smack so much of "Brave New World"?
"A lot of people want to use the word freedom to justify government actions, but want to deny the actual freedoms the nation is founded on."
Could not agree with you more.
They weren't removed for their names at all. Read the link in post #11. They were removed because of violence in the house. The only reason the media picked up the story was because of the names.
funny how how Hilter violated so many human rights, when our government does it every day. And all the natives they killed in this land when they took it over. sort of sounds like a double standard to me. Agreed he was a bad person, but the name does not make person.
READ!!!
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a2208-09.opn.html
White Trash.
Do you think you might actually read the article? It's a rather short article to not be able to absorb the facts as to why they were removed. It wasn't their unusual choice of names.
right; now the arbitrary authoritarians are using the abusive, Nazi tactics to guarantee an arbitrary conformity, here
you can't be free in an ultra-conformist stae
papsotherboy, you are another example of someone who doesn't read before they post. The children were removed due to mental abuse and neglect. Their names had little or nothing to do with it. If you actually read the court decision before making your comment, then you must not have been intelligent enough to understand said court decision.
hi like it or not people have to get on with life and bad names or not aside doesn't make this new child a bad person come on. We name our children after food and cars like Candy or mercedies. Or how ever you put it So Courts and Child services Be damd for sticking there noses where they don't belong do you see the last name is not Ahh come on read it says Cambell. Whats next chicken soup is BANNED name Get a life. YOUR RULES AND REGULATIONS ALL SUCK ON this one No I am not sorry so stick it where you know if you can find it@SS. good day!!!!!!!!! sorry people these other ones are well. never mind... DUH!
Dang! I hope my lineage doesn't trace me back to Atilla The Hun, Henry the 8th, or Caligula.