The witness said a woman with two children in tow became upset with the way people were pushing in line. The witness said the woman pulled out pepper spray and sprayed the other people.

Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

George Carlin died only in 2008.

Only in America.

USA USA USA !!!!!

"It's a good move to try to get shoppers to spend sooner, before they run out of money,"

What a shame. Turkey day (a day to renew the bond with family) has become the biggest shopping day.

I was at my Wal-Mart at 10:00P PST and it took about 5 minutes for all the Xbox games on sale to be snapped up and people literally ripped the display holding the games apart leaving just a handful of Xbox controllers in the tattered remains of the display. There was no line just mob rule. I'ver never seen people act like animals over video games before.

Blame the Cabbage Patch Kids for this kind of behavior! I think they're in their thirties now and they keep saying, "What have we've created"?

But. After all that did you get an xbox? Or at least a piece of one???

Animals. I'm sure they all used plastic to "pay" for all of the non essential things they bought.

I wanted a $200 TV, so we drove up to Best Buy at 6:00 PM. There was already a line around the block and lines of cars coming in. We circled around and went home. I wasn't trying to sit in the cold for 6 hours and then get stampeded for a cheap TV they were going to run out of before I got there anyway.

Christmas stuff out in October. Black Friday starting on Thanksgiving. Q4 has become the time of desparate retailers milking the holiday season for every dime they can get.

My 10 year old daughter and I were at Walmart at 10pm. People were fighting over towels. Thanks to a nice employee of Walmart that let me grab what I needed which was right beside the towels so I could get out of there. I have gone in years past but this was the worst. People just did not care. So sad!!

We need to bring our culture to less civilized countries - especially non-Christian countries so that people there can partake of the life of the "Shining mall at the intersection!"

Ah, the spirit of the holidays.

THis is nothing but mob mentality and greed. And that is what our country has come to. The Walmart I worked at did not have this type of stuff on Black Friday. People knew what they wanted and headed in that direction or they posted their kids at each covred pallet. We did not have the mob mentality at our store. The best organized Black Friday sale I ever went to was at a Toys R Us. They let people in 25 at a time. You didn't have people running people over as soon as the doors were open. The only thing about it was that you had to get there very early (we were there at midnight), and where I live it was freezing cold. It took us two hours to get inside the store. We took turns sitting in the car and keeping the motor running and getting warm. But that is the choice we made along with the others. We stay out in the cold and wait or we don't go. But I will never do it again. It is not worth practically freezing to death. I think Walmart should do the same thing. They should limit the number of people who go in (maybe 75), and then when people start leaving, gradually let in more customers. Of course, you have the greedy people who want to push everyone out of their way, etc. Last Christmas a Walmart employee was trampled to death by the mob rushing into the store as soon as he opened the door. You thilnk Walmart would have learned their lesson. Who knows who in that unruly mob actually killed him and they probably didn care as long as they got their items. I see what is going on in our country to day and I just shake my head. It used to not be this way.

Well, that, or you'd think people would get a clue and just refuse to be lead around by a ring in their noses by Big Retail and do stupid things that endanger them, their children and, often, others. I can hold onto hope, can't I?

hum bug !!!!!!!

"We wish you a merry Cashmas and a maxed-out New Year..."

Purnell: Do you really think these people were christians? I know some people claim to be when it suits them, but they are also the ones who haven't been to church in years other than Christmas and Easter. You know the "spiritual"ones and the "I do good deeds" types.

In anycase, last night people were at my walmart well before 10PM. Our walmart is open 24 hours, but people who were in the store at 7PM and already had the stuff in their carts, and were just waiting for 10PM to check out. At exactly 10PM it was considered a sale item and only till then.

Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

George Carlin died only in 2008.

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

PT Barnum died in 1910.

Gentreal:

Correction: More like a atheist, muslim, christian/judeo country. ( And yes, I think it is in that order)

Will-1091847 I wanted a $200 TV......Christmas stuff out in October. Black Friday starting on Thanksgiving. Q4 has become the time of desparate retailers milking the holiday season for every dime they can get.

Don't blame the Retailers, the consumers are the ones who feed this. If the consumer wouldn't show up at the stores, and actually spend the time with their families, then the stores wouldn't open. After all didn't you yourself go out for that $200 TV? So you as a consumer milked that holiday season for every dime you could save.

I see what is going on in our country to day and I just shake my head. It used to not be this way.

Most things aren't what they used to be. You see, there is this thing called "effective advertising" that entices normally sane people to act with animal instinct when they think they're going to miss out on some really big sale. It's just like those suckers that wait in line for a half hour or more to save 3 cents a gallon for gas at Costco, when across the street at Mobil, there's no waiting at all. But if you talk to folks, they all say the same thing about how they're sickened by this and they would never do that. Well, someone is, because each year it gets worse and worse.

Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

George Carlin died only in 2008.

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

PT Barnum died in 1910.

"The country if full of idiots.

Bob, still alive 2011

Thanksgiving was always a day of family, rest, and--dare I say it--focusing on gratitude for whatever blessings one has in life, large or small. The the Wall Street greed is trickling down to take that away by forcing so many to give this up to earn their living.

But the greed doesn't stop there. The shoppers of this nation are voluntarily giving up this sacred time for the opportunity to hoard more goods. It's a machination that completes the loop and reinforces the Wall Street greed everyone despises. The circle complete, it solidifies.

We've exchanged a day of thanks for a day of greed. Our nation is doomed to self-destruction. Enjoy the madness; it simply can't last.

I'm here to tell you, there are good people and bad people regardless how they choose to label themselves spiritually. I've seen asshat regular church going christians and atheists that are the best friends/people you can know.

Lay off the holier than thou attitude..THAT'S what causes issues.

I will never participate!No dignity in mob mentality!!

The people who act like animals on Black Friday are the same ones who act like animals the other 364.25 days of the year. When we go Black Friday shopping we leave our city and go to a town that's about an hour away. They have 1 of all the big stores but they're MUCH nicer. There is no shoving or pushing or rude people there. We all chat and reach and help each other. Its worth it when you have a large family.

HN-1558401 "It's a machination that completes the loop and reinforces the Wall Street greed everyone despises. The circle complete, it solidifies."

"We've exchanged a day of thanks for a day of greed. Our nation is doomed to self-destruction. Enjoy the madness; it simply can't last." The truth doesn't always look or feel good,nevertheless, what is,is. I agree.

We used to go on long lines at the grocery store in Cuba, but in this great country there is not need to push each other for items that would be cheaper in a month or two. For me this beahavior is stupid, selfish and greedy.

"... and bad people..." and the odds of meeting them between 10pm and 2am while you're holding an armful of valuables, with a store name on the bag, go through the roof.

bonos_rama- Christmas is now more of a secular holiday in America than a religious holiday meaning the majority of people celebrating don't care about the religious aspect and are only there for the gifts. Most younger people don't even know about the birth of Jesus, it's all Santa Claus and toys. Hence, most people celebrating Christmas aren't Christians and do not believe in Christ.

If they are buying CHRISTMAS gifts to celebrate CHRISTMAS, the birth of JESUS, then yes, they are Christians.

Hogwash! They worship themselves and the almighty dollar. There are few real Christians left. People have been taught to be individualistic, that they can do and have anything that they want. The problem with that is that it usually comes at someone else's expense but people are taught, "well, that's their problem". We're in real trouble as a society and it's a shame people just don't care.

Shame on those who shopped on Thanksgiving, robbing those employes of one of only two holidays left where most businesses closed down so families could be families.

I blame Walmart. Does anyone notice that people are always aggressive and rude in a Walmart store? I think they are pumping something into the air, or the musak that's making people act like white trash as soon as the cross the threshold.

America! Look what you have wrought! Once again your greed has shown the world what a shallow and materialistic society you've become. America, you reap what you have sown. A shining light unto the world? Hardly! More like a shining example of "Screw my neighbor! It's mine, all mine!".

The people who act like animals on Black Friday are the same ones who act like animals the other 364.25 days of the year. When we go Black Friday shopping we leave our city and go to a town that's about an hour away. They have 1 of all the big stores but they're MUCH nicer. There is no shoving or pushing or rude people there. We all chat and reach and help each other. Its worth it when you have a large family.

This from someone who goes by the name Impatient Girl. You're killing me here.

"The country if full of idiots.

Bob, still alive 2011

Are you sure of that?

bonos_rama - good points - but were they celebrating the REAL meaning of Christmas? THey should have gone home and celebrated the REAL meaning of Thanksgiving - the subjugation of the indigenous peoples of North America.

Violence at Walmart and love at Target. Best wishes to the couple who met at Target.

It is quite possible to be Christian and shop at Black Friday! Also, KUDOS to the Federal Way Wal*Mart. This 24 hour store let people hang out in "shopping queues" for the items wanted and gave out tickets. You had to wait for the items, but it was acceptable to swap family members for breaks. We met some very nice people! Although the electronics could not be checked out until Midnight, our "e-group" was able to let others in front of us until we were able to check out. Our family had a very enjoyable and crowded experience and was able to buy a few things we would not have been able to afford otherwise! With the savings we were also to buy extra toys for the Giving Tree for church and still stay within our budget.

Really America? REALLY!?!? I mean, give me an f-ing break. I was talked into going Black Friday shopping 3 years ago...bought nothing but I did observe the craziness and saw that crazy look in a lot of peoples eyes. These incidents are exactly why I didn't want to go then and why I will NEVER go again. People lose their f-ing minds when a discount is involved. These greedy stores and the people involved in both the incidents we will and will not hear about today should all be f-ing ashamed of themselves. Crap like this makes me think of the increasing madness in the movie "Cold Turkey" (also has a greed over money tie in) only instead of quitting smoking it's scoring that Black Friday "deal" and no one regrets devolving into lunatics over them (If you've seen the movie you know what I mean). This Black Friday crap has got to stop. Here's an idea, why not spread these "deals" out over the ENTIRE holiday shopping season instead of one mad rush day in order to AVOID this kind of crap. IT'S REALLY NOT THAT IMPORTANT SHOPPERS!!!

Retailers hope the earlier openings will make Black Friday shopping more convenient for Americans who are more likely to be worried about high unemployment and the other challenges they face in the weak economy.

Convenient for Americans...That is one of the biggest lies I've ever read. All retailers want is money money money. They don't care who gets hurt during the rush as long as their profits are high. All they see are dollar signs running around acting crazy in their stores spending money. People on the corporate level probably have Black Friday live feed viewing parties in some office somewhere and laugh their asses off at the craziness that goes on. "Omg that guy has a gun...Look look! That woman pepper sprayed people...in front of her kids...at 4:30AM!! Wait wait...it's ok look at all the stuff in their carts!! We should open even earlier next year!! High five!!"

"It's a good move to try to get shoppers to spend sooner, before they run out of money," says Burt Flickinger, III, president of retail consultancy Strategic Resource Group.

It's sad how true this statement is. Although good should be replaced with manipulative strategy, and "They fall for it every time, hahaha!" should be added to the end.

And this is why I stay home. Nothing in those stores, is worth getting hurt, pushed, run over by carts or killed for.

bonos_rama- Christmas is now more of a secular holiday in America than a religious holiday meaning the majority of people celebrating don't care about the religious aspect and are only there for the gifts. Most younger people don't even know about the birth of Jesus, it's all Santa Claus and toys. Hence, most people celebrating Christmas aren't Christians and do not believe in Christ.

It's always the way, isn't it? If this exact same group of people just the week before were doing charity work, they'd be hailed as "good chrsitians". But a week later, they are suddenly not "real" Christians. you can't deny believers just b/c it's inconvenient. Otherwise, muslims would all pretend Bin Laden and al qaeda weren't "real muslims".

It's sad to see the ugliness behind this type of mindset. Where everyone is sooo... focused on material things that they tend not place any energy on what's actually real.
I used to be the same way, always wanting material things or always wanting to fulfill a certain vision of myself and how I wanted to look in the presence of others. But, once I got the item or fulfilled that certain vision, I would still feel incomplete.

Now, I'm on a mission to get those things that are real to me in life. The things that matter!!!!
The things that go with you when you die and that will remain when you return!!!!

The wisdom, the experiences, understanding, foregiveness, knowledge, etc......

It just looks as if the reaction to the Black Friday sales are an indicator of Americans mindset and how we think!!!!

Purnell: Do you really think these people were christians? I know some people claim to be when it suits them, but they are also the ones who haven't been to church in years other than Christmas and Easter.

The ultimate hypocrisy! I'll bet a great majority of the people who shop Black Friday are Christians! Whether or not they meet YOUR definition of it doesn't matter. You can't say someone IS a Christian when you agree with what they do, and then when it doesn't look good, say "Oh, these people aren't REAL Christians". That's just plain BS. Christians are just as capable as acting like jerks (worse language not allowed here) as anyone else ... and, since the majority of people in this country claim to be Christian ... you do the math as to the percentage of those doing the shopping.

I'm not saying all Christians are bad ... they certainly are not. Neither are all Wiccas, Deists, Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. But PLEASE don't give us the "they aren't real Christians" routine.

Don't blame the Retailers, the consumers are the ones who feed this....Actually, more of the blame for this shouldn't go to the Wal-Marts or Toys R Us stores, but to the one store that started opening their doors on Thanksgiving Day in 1991....K-Mart. It was K-Mart's grand experiment with opening up on Thanksgiving, and actually seeing people doing their holiday shopping at that time, that caught the attention of other retailers. I remember when K-Mart first did this in 1991, my wife and I were going to Thanksgiving dinner at a friend's house, and we passed a K-Mart with cars in the parking lot, store brightly lit, and people going in and out. We wondered who would be open on Thanksgiving when it's usually a ghost town in many cities. The next year, K-Mart did the same thing, and the year after that. Soon, other retailers saw what K-Mart was doing and when one store does something like this, the others follow suit. Prior to 1991, going Christmas shopping on Thanksgiving was very much unheard of. The worst thing possibly was getting to a store at 5 a.m. for Black Friday. How times have changed. Thanks K-Mart.

"It's a good move to try to get shoppers to spend sooner, before they run out of money,"

Yes my fellow American's, this is the crux of the biscuit.

Welcome to the new meaning of the holidays. The commercialization of Christmas just gets more and more dysfunctional. This type of mentality is exactly why we as a nation will collapse. Today we even label the event we are convinced is for our benefit. Black Friday!

Black Friday happened on September 24, 1869, the day the markets crashed following a failed attempt by some financiers to corner the gold market. This led to a depression. Coincidence or prophetic? As we struggle economically as a nation, prudence is cast aside in the name of "Holiday Spirit". We have been consumed by consumption. The results of this mentality have, so far, been less than stellar.

For the past few decades we have been transformed from the strongest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation and the American people have followed in lock step. We have become a nation of what "I want", rather than what "I need". This has been accelerated with the advent of the Internet. Today you can get on line and "Google" anything you could ever need. From how to fix a leaky faucet to deciding if a LCD or Plasma TV is better for you, it can be found. One of those things NEED to be done, the other, you WANT to do. Herein lies the disconnect.

Is the world fundamentally a better place because of science and technology? We shop at home, we surf the Web... at the same time, we feel emptier, lonelier and more cut off from each other than at any other time in human history...

This is a line from the movie "Contact". Primarily, science and technology does make the world a better place. Secondarily, it can simply expose us to more "Bread and Circuses". We get fed little morsels of the American Dream, but then Keeping up with the Joneses basically overwhelms us. Bigger homes even though the size of families has decreased over the past 50 years. A fancy car as a status symbol. Expensive designer clothes that we rarely wear more than a few times. Walk-in closets to store all those clothes. Basements and garages bulging with junk, but we want more and more.

We complain about the evils of capitalism but in the same instant we stand in line for hours to support it. We think we're getting a deal but we know in a few weeks the same product will probably be cheaper during the next "Holiday Sale". We scream about being exploited, yet we submissively shrug our shoulders and allow it. Is it because of our illiteracy, indoctrination or lack of will power? I think we all know the reason, we just can't admit it.

As the quote at the top of my post proves, we think we know ourselves and our habits but Mr. Burt Flickinger, III, president of retail consultancy Strategic Resource Group knows us much better. While many Americans are indeed frugal and prudent, many more are not. When our government has been incompetent in its finances, why do we wonder when many Americans are the same?

"Without frugality none can be rich, and with it very few would be poor." --Samuel Johnson

100's of people will stand in line when there is only 10 items available to the first 10 people.

This is a waste of time. The stores need to stop price gouging the people and drop the prices for everyone, not the first 10.

Stay home, stay warm, and the longer you hold back on shopping, the cheaper the deals will get.

It always happens in @!$%#ing Arizona...

We are talking about 1 in 5 Americans shopping at the same time!

Of course there will be thefts and fights - there are thefts and fights all the time.

The only difference is the media points out every incident.

So you get this idea that this isn't a normal level of crime and violence.

But it is.

People want to save money. If you can save $200 on an item, it's just like finding $200 on the ground.

And if I threw down $200 or dropped it from a helicopter, people would fight over it.

That's NORMAL human behavior.

So don't get too caught up in the media reports over every little thing that happens on Black Friday.

"An angry woman used pepper spray when Black Friday bargain-hunters tried to cut in line at a crowded Wal-Mart store in Los Angeles late Thursday, leaving 15 people with minor injuries."

First of all, this woman probably was just "role-modeling" Tony Bologna, the New York city cop who decided to pepper spray several innocent women (see OWS)..."

"It's a good move to try to get shoppers to spend sooner, before they run out of money," says Burt Flickinger, III, president of retail consultancy Strategic Resource Group."

WOW JUST WOW, BURT!

It's no wonder George Carlin referred to us as "@!$%#ing consumer @!$%#s."

I've been seeing references here about Christians. Some people say the majority of people in this country are Christians. No matter what you or I say, the One who decides who really is a Christian is the same One who said "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in to steal, but lay up for yourselves treasure in Heaven." Matthew 6:19-20

What would inspire someone to subject their children to such insanity! I would not participate myself let alone involve a child, fights pepper spray shootings and a bomb. over shopping, get real! What ever happened to the days of blue light specials and rain checks? there has got to be a better way. civilization is not civilized enough to partake in such risky adventures. its worth it to wait till the madness is over and pay the extra couple of bucks for the product so you may live to enjoy it. not to mention the long cold wait, what a wonderful way to spend Thanksgiving, Idiots.

Only an idiot would put this in Obama's lap ...

The writer states that the woman with the pepper spray was beleived to be nothing more than an upset customer. This is exactly why incidents of battery happen too often. Because officials that are around fail to recognize these 'kooks' and take action before something really serious happens.

More conveniant for customers who are more worried about unemployment.... So I will be less worried about that on Thanksgiving night than the next morning? How was it more conveniant for me to spend that money a few hours earlier? We had to eat late because my son had to work yesterday, so in my case, their strategy backfired. I was tired, full from dinner and not really wanting to leave the house. But on a tight budget, I knew that a couple of items I wanted would begone the next day. Not TV's or X Boxes, but the fleece pj's that make winter bearable out here in the high plains, as well as the $2 dvd's, since we rarely buy dvd's (or anything else beyond survival needs anymore.) The funny thing is, I might have been enticed to stay longer and spend more had I been well rested and not so uncomfortable from overeating just an hour earlier. I got what I came for and got the heck out. Speaking as one of the unemployed, I am going to spend what little I can afford for Christmas, whether it is Thursday night or Friday morning. And I won't be doing all my Christmas shopping all on one day either. I have budgeted a small amount each week for Christmas and while it would have been nice to get it all at once and take advantage of the extra low prices AND get it all over with, it just can't happen. In two weeks I'll go do a little more, and the week after the last of it. And very little of my spending will be on frills, mostly stuff we need (like the fleece pj's) I managed to save a LOT of money on one thing my son really wanted but didn't think he'd be able to get, an android tablet PC, by buying it on ebay (and new, not used) for under fifty dollars. Even with the shipping costs it was still WAY under the price of any decent tablets the stores had advertised for Black Friday, and researching it before I bid on it, found it was actually a decent tablet that sells for more than twice what I was able to get it for. (The only one I saw advertised in the Black Friday ads that I could have afforded was one that got TERRIBLE reviews) So he'll be really happy getting something he never dreamed he'd be able to get. Other than that he'll be getting a couple of books he wanted, the fleece pj's and some dvd's I got for $2 each, simple things like that. He'd have been content with just those, but the tablet... well it just feels good to be able to do something like that for him. I got one more what I consider big ticket item these days left to buy, a power tool my husband wants, that's about $50. Believe me, I wouldn't have gone out last night for anything in the world if it hadn't of been for the fleece pj's. (And thank God I did, because they had very few left by the time I found them) and the DVD's. (And I only bought 8 of those, it was hard finding anything anyone of us would actually LIKE, and I wasn't going to buy movies we wouldn't like just because they were cheap.)

By the way folks, Thanksgiving IS NOT, nor ever has been, a Christian holiday. It is a secular holiday that Abraham Lincoln started and is only observed in the US, though some other countries do have an equivalent, though not on the same date as ours. It is no more a church holiday than the Fourth of July, though it does have a more religious connotation since it is a day to give thanks (presumably to God) for the blessings we have been given, and most churches have added special services and prayers for it.

TomTom-72

What a shame. Turkey day (a day to renew the bond with family) has become the biggest shopping day.

Hey Tom Tom: You know what's a bigger shame? The fact that some bozo would refer to THANKSGIVING DAY as turkey day (sorry if the shoe fits)

We've come a long way since the first Thanksgiving celebration where prayers of
thankfulness and praise to God were the order of the day followed by a "meal"
consisting of only a few kernels of corn for each in attendance. Considering
the abundant life most enjoy in the U.S.A. today, only a turkey would refer it
solely as "turkey day" thinking of the parades, food and football while omitting
the theme of thankfulness. While it may be true that Thanksgiving Day offers a chance to renew family bonds the focus should be on thankfulness, to do otherwise is selfish and narrow-minded to say the least.

The animals fighting, spraying, and killing each while "shopping" just goes to prove what a sad state of affairs exist in this world. So much for evolving and improving over time, the greatest stride made by people over the years has been in the realm of killing one another (I have chickens with more sense!)

I once saw a commercial for Monster.com where the it showed a bunch of people at work moving in and out of a corridor at work, mooing like cattle. That's what you guys remind me of when go about clawing at each other at the department stores during the holidays.

realitycheck-3009300:

You need a serious realitycheck....The first "Thanksgiving" was the result of a Native American chief sharing food with a group of "Pilgrims" that had been stealing food from the tribe. These
Pilgrims" ahd nothing to do with the tribe socially, and had convinced themselves that this tribe were savages and beneath them (familiar). These same "Pilgrims" were starving to death due to their own bigotry, and ignorance when they were fed by the natives. Now the sheep who line up for "Black Friday" are no better than their ancestors. These barely functioning humans that are out hurting each other, and stampedeing stores to buy "Gifts" to celebrate one of the three days of the year that people treat each other somewhat humanely.

How does one actually look their child in the eyes and say:

" I stampeded a store, beat the daylights out of a teenager, and an old lady just to get you this X-Box 360....don't mind the blood stained box to much....Merry Christmas"!!!

Festivus for the rest of us!!!! Got to love the airing of grievances.

In reality, in all seriousness, this day should be called "China laughs at America day". Everything in those stores, Walmart, Target, Old Navy, came from China and while people bitch about China becoming so powerful and holding so much of our debt, we have a special day to crank the money pipeline wide open. A one way pipeline!

I witnessed "people" pushing other human beings out of their way in a desperate attempt to provide for their families, it was like jungle rule watching these "people" fight over food, no, water, no, %$@#ing Chinese made crap.

Gods help us.

Nothing but selfish people any more. The stores and the customers. No one has any regard for anyone else any more. What a great world we are becoming.

There is no cotton-pickin' way I would subject myself to milling around in a mob devoid of any manners or humanity on "Black Friday!" Who gave it that awful name anyway? It's probably synonymous with the color of retailers' and people's hearts on that day. If you really want to save money, wait til the 20th of December or give gift certificates. Gift certificates don't have an immediate expiration date; you don't have to run back to the store after Christmas in a blizzard because your niece or granddaughter said "Awwww. This isn't what I wanted, grandma. Nobody wears this anymore." OR see a disappointed face say, "this isn't my favorite color." Or later hear that your niece said, "Auntie just doesn't get it, does she." Well, auntie doesn't have to GET anything at all. Niecey-kins can get off her little arse and stand in line and get it herself!! After Christmas, there's a lot of exchanging and returning going on for exactly that reason, so goods are BACK on the shelves at post-Christmas sale prices. With a gift certificate, one can often get TWICE as much!!! Perhaps the reason I do not enjoy that aspect of Christmas is because PEOPLE CANNOT ACCEPT GIFTS GRACIOUSLY AND find a use for what you can afford to give.

Reminds me of slopping the hogs.

Silly us, we spent the day yesterday with family, then went to bed at a normal hour. Damn, we missed all the fun again, oh well...

The ultimate hypocrisy! I'll bet a great majority of the people who shop Black Friday are Christians! Whether or not they meet YOUR definition of it doesn't matter. You can't say someone IS a Christian when you agree with what they do, and then when it doesn't look good, say "Oh, these people aren't REAL Christians".

The fact is Beth, most people who celebrate Christmas aren't christians. They are pretending to be Christian for one day out of the year because people who are atheists have no holidays. So yeah, I think as a christian it is time we take back our day and not leave it to the hands of those greedy atheists.

Christmas is now more of a secular holiday in America than a religious holiday meaning the majority of people celebrating don't care about the religious aspect and are only there for the gifts. Most younger people don't even know about the birth of Jesus, it's all Santa Claus and toys. Hence, most people celebrating Christmas aren't Christians and do not believe in Christ.

That is very true Tiny. So much, for people thinking that there is an overwhelming so-called "Christian " Sharia Law" ; more like an overwheming "atheist" Sharia Law!

Wal Mart? Pepper spray?

Sounds like a Jeff Foxworthy "You might be a redneck" bit...

Joe vet;

The Indians were stealing from each other for centuries before whitey got here, perhaps the pilgrims learned it from them if in FACT they were stealing; says who?. As for how things went down we cannot say as niether of us were there and what we know is based on history books that are many times laced with inaccuracy. There is history and history percieved, who can know the truth unless one lived in the times?

BTW your last statement hits the nail on the head, as far as lust for material things; the end justifies the means........the problem rests with man, is universal, and has been here as long as there have been people. Even "good" people do bad things it's the nature of the flesh.

Best regards

Maybe we can have Black Thursday next year. We can just bring some turkey, taters and pie to the stores with us and eat it out of ziploc baggies while we push and shove others (all in Holiday spirit of course) out of our way so we can save a buck or two. So much for Thanksgiving, and so much for CHRIST mas.

The extraordinary thing to me.... The far left loonies trying to blame the retailers for the greed and corruption of those perpetrating the crimes. It is NOT the retailers to blame here... it is all the greedy people who push and shove and shoot. It is thos same greedy people who have their hand stuck out for someone else to fill it. Grow up and wise up, you OWS hacks, socialists, communists, and everyone else who blames someone else for their own short comings and deficiencies. It's not capitalism that is at fault... it is the greedy masses created by the left.

Ryan of Texas will excuse anything. Why don't you just move to Montana and go hang out in the Unabomber's old shack. Goes for you too Dennis Chosen (chosen for what? fool of the year?).

Seems like the common element here is Wal-Mart's crazy idea of pre-Black Friday madness. Let's create a mob situation. So, given the injuries, store damage, theft and police time, was it worth the increased sales or profits (assuming there were any increase)?

The whole thing seems counter-productive. Sales were just pulled forward from Friday. And, there is a big question if the sales actually improved profits since these markdowns have zero margins. They may even lose money on those sales after overhead is accounted for.

The fact is Beth, most people who celebrate Christmas aren't christians. They are pretending to be Christian for one day out of the year because people who are atheists have no holidays. So yeah, I think as a christian it is time we take back our day and not leave it to the hands of those greedy atheists.

Fact? I don't see a "fact". I see an opinion. Now, as an opinion, yours is just as valid as anyone's. But I don't see it as "fact". To qualify as a "fact", you need supporting evidence.

MY opinion, and it's just as valid as yours, is that if someone proclaims themselves a Christian, then they are ... good with the bad.

As to "taking back Christmas" -- you must be pagan. Because the "Christmas" holiday is a direct grab from paganism -- and was done in order to make easier to covert them.

Joe Veteran has his own twisted view of the first Thanksgiving. What a weird imagination you have.

The first pilgrims suffered through a brutal winter where half of them died. An Indian named Squanto helped them in the spring by teaching them how to cultivate corn, extract maple syrup, fish in the rivers, etc. The Pilgrims first harvest was a success and they invited the Indians to join them for a 3 day feast. That's the first Thanksgiving. Abraham Lincoln made it a national holiday.

People like Joe Veteran must lead a dismal life with all the misinformed twisted thoughts going through their heads.

Walmart: the new war zone.

Anyone who is willing to freeze, camp-out and get trampled, pepper sprayed or shot, to buy some objects needs to rethink what it is they're doing. No xbox game or trendy toy is worth all that misery.

This is why I stay home. Seriously, do you really NEED an XBox (or whatever) that badly?!

идиоты

Larry... Let me guess. Logic is not your strong point, right? I bet you blamed your mother whenever you crapped your pants.

Larry-1274601

Seems like the common element here is Wal-Mart's crazy idea of pre-Black Friday madness. Let's create a mob situation.

The problem with your statement is that there was no coercion. Wal-Mart, nor any of the other big-box retailers, didn't put a gun to anyone's head and force them to go shopping on Thanksgiving day.

In my post above I offered three possible reasons for our exploitation. Illiteracy, indoctrination or lack of will power. Unfortunately the answer is, all the above. Most people are too illiterate to understand that these "SALES" are just more manipulation by the retailers. This is not wrong as every retailer wants to attract as much business to his store as possible. This is the basis of competition. Indoctrination is the main driving force as this "Promotion" has been going on for decades. The belief that this is some type of special day that will not be repeated again until next years Black Friday. Lack of will power is the inevitable fate of most American's when these events occur. Just as the mindless extremes most Americans go to on Halloween and SuperBowl Sunday. No one forces people to spend money on decorations and a party celebrating a sport.

Wal-Mart simply does what every good business does. It capitalizes on the consumers irrational beliefs. The belief that the Friday after Thanksgiving is some milestone to begin the Christmas shopping season is ridiculous, but Americans have accepted it hook, line and sinker. The premise that the 30 +/- days after Thanksgiving will not offer opportunities to shop for gifts is not only ridiculous, it's delusional.

This is what happens when we are raised with the mindset that we have to spend more money than we have to create commerce. Even more ridiculous is that government tries to "stimulate" an economy. True free-market forces would control supply and demand. The only problem is, we no longer have a true free-market.

so much for corporitism and greed being good for the benefit of mankind. notice i said corporitism and greed and not free trade and true capatilism.

just the way Jesus woulda wanted it. That's all I'm sayin

MY opinion, and it's just as valid as yours, is that if someone proclaims themselves a Christian, then they are ... good with the bad.

BETH: No wonder atheists can't tell the difference. It's people like you who masquerade around as christians in order to give the real ones a bad name.

As to "taking back Christmas" -- you must be pagan. Because the "Christmas" holiday is a direct grab from paganism -- and was done in order to make easier to covert them.

It hasn't been a pagan holiday in centuries; or at the very least the whole history of the US. So the fact that you want to celebrate the Day of the Sun is up to you. Personally I don't believe in worshiping the Sun God, but if that is what you pagans do, then so be it.

"Update at 5:45 a.m. ET: Authorities say gunfire erupted at a North Carolina mall as holiday shoppers gathered, the Associated Press reported.

The Cumberland County Sheriff's Office said detectives were looking for two suspects after gunfire rang out at Cross Creek Mall in Fayetteville early Friday."

Fayetville, North Carolina? Are they sure that wasn't The Burning Cross Creek Mall?

Many kowtowing pundits and government officials decry the occupy protestors' efforts because of a few isolated incidents of violence or disorderly conduct. Why are these people not also calling for an end to Black Friday shopping events? Because these events creates revenue and almost any event which generates revenue and tax dollars will not be attacked by the government. Why are these people not calling for all night clubs to be closed, since there is a fight (and sometimes shootings) at nearly every club in America every weekend? For the same reason as above. If the occupy protestors were generating tax revenue then they would be supported 100% by government officials and right wing pundits.

BETH: No wonder atheists can't tell the difference. It's people like you who masquerade around as christians in order to give the real ones a bad name.

UNHAPPY: How did I "masquerade" as anything? I never stated any religious views, so I was hardly "masquerading". But do enlighten us as to the "real" Christians as opposed to all the other Christians. Remember now, FACTS, not OPINIONS. (To anyone else reading == Not meaning to be anti-Christian in any way, this started because I pointed out that ALL religions have good people and bad people in them.)

It hasn't been a pagan holiday in centuries; or at the very least the whole history of the US. So the fact that you want to celebrate the Day of the Sun is up to you. Personally I don't believe in worshiping the Sun God, but if that is what you pagans do, then so be it.

I do believe I pointed out the HISTORICAL aspect of the pagan celebration.

But, where did I say *I* wanted to celebrate the "Day of the Sun" and where did I say *I* was a pagan (not that I have anything against them)?

"Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people's stuff.

George Carlin died only in 2008. "

==========

....Carlin was one of my favorite all time people, he saw all the bullcrap and hypocrisy in our society and was never shy about saying so, "political correctness" was not part of his vocabulary, and that was so refreshing. I miss his biting attacks on the idiocy around us, the world lost a good one when he died. As far as his analysis above goes, it appears "capitalism" may not be doing the job of getting enough stuff to a lot of people these days, so look out. However, after seeing news clips of all the out of control herd animals at the stores trampling each other, maybe we have too many people in the world right now so a good old fashioned war is just what we need, or perhaps a "Soylent Green" program. I won't go near a store for at least another week or two. Sad.....and scary!

Larry (#1.79), good post, I agree. Stores will still have markdowns up to Christmas and there will be good deals. It makes no sense (for the intelligent) to subject yourself to the mob behavior at these early sales.

Apparently black friday must end before dinner on Friday. I waited until about 7-8 PM FRIDAY night just to look and walmart was half-wrecked. Crap everywhere.

I was going to purchase 1 item which I found,non-sale related. I got up to the cashiers. There were at least 10 people in each of the ONLY 4 registers open. I simply dropped my item and left. F 'em.

If you think this is something new than you live a very sheltered life. Over 25 years ago, I was a manager for Shopko stores. It was around the time Beanie Babies were the fad and I witnessed people tearing and tossing boxes of them around like a mob back then. It is worse now because the economy is so bleak and people are trying to stretch every dollar to its fullest. People have lost common sense especially in the name of greed. The best way to combat this is to refuse to participate.

To Beth. You, I, or anyone else does not decide who real Christians are. Only God does. Jesus made it very clear that there would be those who would falsely claim to be His followers who really would not be. So it is indeed a fact that not all who claim to be Christians actually are.

I personally know quite a few people who claim to be Christians who think of Jesus as just a good teacher, kind of like Socrates or Buddha. One lady I know who insists she is a Christian doesn't even think Jesus existed at all! They see themselves as Christians because someone sprinkled some water on them as babies and they have done the same with their kids because it is their family's tradition. They are good people, believe there is some kind of God or Creator, or Higher Power, but are they Christians? Again, ultimately God is the judge, but in Christianity we use the Bible as our guide (or sometimes various creeds based on the Bible), so I think we can safely say that merely saying you are a Christian because it is your tradition, is not truly being a Christian.

As proof that we cannot go only by what a person claims, there are many people who do not believe there is a God at all who do not identify themselves as Atheist or Agnostic. According to the Pew Forum, 24% of those who do not believe in the existence of God, classify themselves as belonging to a religion, most of them claiming some form of Christianity.

As to the history of Christmas, those of us who read the Bible realize the Bible never mentions the date. We know Christians were celebrating Christmas from before Christianity became legal so we are talking about a holiday that Christians have had for at least close to 1700 years. Different Christian groups in different parts of the world actually use different dates for Christmas and I really would not be surprised if the date we use was picked to keep Christians away from a pagan holiday. Western Europe, and therefore North and South America celebrate in December. Eastern European, Russian, Middle Eastern, and Coptic (African) Christians celebrate in January. To many Americans, however, Christmas is no longer a holy day to remember the birth of our Savior, but just a day for fun, presents, etc. If it were still primarily a holy day, the churches would be packed on Christmas Eve, rather than the stores!

Anyone who blames Obama, Bush, Tea Party, OWS, Christians, Muslims, Capitalism, or Liberalism, for what happens on Black Friday are complete and utter idiots.

You all know who you are.

The cabal have split our country in two. All of the idiots complain that their problems are the other guys fault and vice versa. While you lemmings moan and whine about perceived injustices, the super elite will take the last few crumbs left on our plates and move to Dubai.

The typical American today is a mindless drone, or pawn, being used on a global chessboard. You are all programmed well by the best media money can buy.

Imagine how nice life would be if we removed all religion and people simply led their lives by the Golden Rule?

Imagine how nice life would be if we removed all religion and people simply led their lives by the Golden Rule?

Where do you think the Golden Rule came from?

If you don't know, look in Luke 6:31 and Matthew 7:12. Jesus said it!

Confucius was a Christian?

This is what happens when people perceive life solely on what other people tell them.

Next you will say that God created the Internet. We all know it was Al Gore!

Addendum, Jesus didnt say anything. The only thing that you are taught was rewritten by English Aristocracy.

Go back to Paris Hilton and ask her for more history advice.

Corporate propaganda.

They can get you to do anything they want.

The Corporations rule this Country.

Where do you think the Golden Rule came from?

If you don't know, look in Luke 6:31 and Matthew 7:12. Jesus said it!

It didn't just come from Christianity ... The "Golden Rule" has a variant in most religious (and some secular) traditions, many long BEFORE Christianity.

"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you."
-- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India,
circa 3000 BC

"What is hateful to you, do not to our fellow man. That is entire Law, all the rest is commentary."
-- Talmud, Shabbat 31a, from the Judaic tradition,
circa 1300 BC

"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself."
-- Avesta, Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5, from the Zoroastrian tradition,
circa 600 BC

"Hurt not others in ways that you find hurtful."
-- Tripitaka, Udanga-varga 5,18 , from the Buddhist tradition,
circa 525 BC

"Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness, do not unto others that which you would not have done unto you."
-- Analects, Lun-yu XV,23, from the Confucian tradition,
circa 500 BC

"One should treat all beings as he himself would be treated."
-- Agamas, Sutrakrtanga 1.10, 1-3, from the Jain tradition,
circa 500 BC

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your gain and your neighbor's loss as your loss."
-- Tai-shang Kang-ying P'ien, from the Taoist tradition,
circa 500 BC

"Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you."
-- Socrates (the Greek philosopher),
circa 470-399 BC

"Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your superiors."
-- Epistle XLVII,11, from the Seneca tradition,
circa 5-65 AD

"Therefore all things whatsoever you desire that men should do to you, do you even so to them. For this is the Law and the prophets."
-- New Testament, Matthew 7:12, from the Christian tradition,
circa 30 AD

"Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God."
-- Ko-ji-ki, Hachiman Kasuga of the Shinto tradition,
circa 500 AD

"No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself."
-- Koran, Sunnah, from the Islam tradition,
circa 620 AD

"We obtain salvation by loving our fellow man and God."
-- Granth, Japji XXI, from the Sikh tradition,
circa 1500 AD

I would rather all stores lowered prices so that we could shop like we used to. We shopped for a little at a time, so we could be well within our budget and we got more that way then going through what has happened on black Fridays. Also our families could all be together and enjoy our time together. To me this is very important. I have not ever participated in black Fridays nor will I ever. I believe the stores will survive

closing for at least two days of the year and giving their help the day off. Why has everyone decided the big bucks are the main thing in life. If you have clothes to wear and food on the table, your family and your faith is all you really need. And if you throw in caring about others, you have it all.

its amazing how this frenzy spreads. all that violence to save what like $20 on a game system? it's not like you wont be able to buy it somewhere else before christmas... if you wait and watch you can probly get it for the same price online...
I understand it must have been severly painful for those being sprayed but did no one try and stop the lady with the pepper spray? somone behind her could have tackled her or grabbed the bottle or used one of her kids as a shield? The report I saw elsewhere said she proceded to the checkout and bought an xbox after the spraying. how can walmart allow this to happen? How can you create an event knowing the possible dangers and not be ready for it. If somthing like these violent events happened at a rock concert the band wouldn't ever be invited back and the organizers would be sued for inaqeduate security. Walmart shouldn't be special!

They were all wrong. and two wrongs or fifteen are still wrong. And what of those children she brought with her? They will always have a Thanksgiving night fond freaking memory- so warm and wonderful!

Yea happy F***** holiday let go to Walmart for free "food product" or let's go to North Carolina to get shot maybe they had concealed gun permits or we can just send our money straight to a big box store and wait for our gift these holidays where never about the stupid competition to be first on Christmas to have not only the cheapest gift but the wounds to prove it where has Christmas gone.

The shooting was a bunch of thugs who would have shot at each other anywhere.

It's only a few incidents of theft and fighting.

Considering 1 out of 5 Americans is shopping, that's pretty normal.

I just don't see what the story is.

People camp out for concert tickets, and there is a place in Houston that makes really good pies - people line up for hours for them!

So if people want to mess with the massive crowds and lines - that is their business.

It's their money and time, and they can do whatever they wish with it.

It's called freedom.

As for any actual crimes, they should be punished just like they normally would.

Going shopping wheres my list, oh there it is lets see helmet check, bullet proof vest check, pepper spray check, stun gun check, riot shield check, gun check, ammo check, tent check, mre's check, walkie talkies check, blow horn check, portable toilet check, tp check, gas heater check, Coleman fuel check, tactical layout of wallmart check, bomb detector check, attack dog check, locator's for the kids check, and last but not least credit card check. that's urbanites, how do people in the country do it? Wallmarts having a sale honey call up and have them fed X us a X Box.

End the Prohibition, just keep in mind that U.S. law does not recognize any good vigilante reason at all for committing battery except for may be self defense.

And so the "festivities?" begin.....................all for some Chinese krap.

God save us from our greed.

Chill People, Chill its not worth your life.

Los Angeles? Walmart? Pepper spray?

They think it's a condiment...

"Hey vato, can I have some of that on my buritto, esse'?"

What is it about Walmart that brings out the worst in people...worst dressers, worst potty mouths, worst social graces, worst kids, worst tempers , the list could go on and on and on.

wal-mart is a disgrace! Thats why I never shop there. Check out the You Tube videos from last years black friday and watch the savage shoppers. The new videos should be popping up on You Tube any time now.

Its just like another article on this Black Friday stuff...I don't remotely get it. Its really weird and sad, and I dont see anything funny about any of it.

For a Sanyo 42" lcd tv for $199 that originally sales for $499, or a Samsung laptop that sold for $299 with an original price tag of $999. Problem is there were a minimum of 10 in each store, more likely only 10 in each store.

They call those items "Loss Leaders." Ergo, the losers that fall for this sort of manipulation.

It should be called "Red Friday" since most of the crap is from China....

I believe that the Loss leaders should be illegal. If you advertise something, people should be able to get a rain check. They could give em away and I wouldn't go to one of these disgusting sales. The American people no longer have the required discipline, or should I say decency to be able to participate in these "Treasure Hunts".

Sometimes they don't even stock the "loss leaders" intentionally. You can't lose money on something that isn't there but the cheap masses will still show up in droves.

"Truth in advertising" died a painful death a long, long time ago. No longer is it about the customer and customer service, it's all about Big Biz and we'll like it. Sad, because I remember the days when shopping was actually fun and something we planned with great anticipation.

Mac - Over generalize much? "The American people"? As if we are all just a bunch of carbon copies? Even if the stat Ryan from Texas (or whatever the handle) was throwing around that 1 in 5 Americans participated in Black Friday shopping, that still leaves the 4 out of 5 of us who did not. Even if as much as 20% (yes, that is 1 in 5) are as bad as you say and lack discipline and/or decency, that still leaves the other 80%. Even if these stats are a little off, the point still stands. You cannot and should not judge all people who happen to be American citizens by the acts of some. To do so doesn't seem very, well, decent.

Saddened, Needless to say not ALL the American people. But for argument sake we use your 20% number, roughly the same % of Iraqis who do not want to live in a free democratic Iraq. That % is high enough to keep Iraq from being successful.

In the ole days in America, if someone jumped line a FEW men would grab the POS and throw him the hell out of line so it was not even thought about. Now, with the legal culture that preys on anyone that has enough to make a law suit worthwhile, very few men will stand up for their rights unless it is significant enough to do so. Just da facts. Thank a LAUYER. LOL!

well mac there used to be consumer protection laws where if you advertised something on sale and it ran out a rain check had to be given. hmm wonder where that deregulation went to and who did it? who lobbyed for it? look it up people.

even the term loss leaders is a misnomer. they are still actually making about a 100% profit on the items. they just mark them down from their actual 3-500 % profit margin that they normally go for. i used to work at wallmart part time while using my gi bill to go to college to help suplement my schooling. they are losing nothing on these items.

Eric, agree 100% . See my 11.4 post. But don't play the good cop bad cop game. After Sam Walton died who sat on the board of directors and helped push most of the manufactoring to Red China? They're just two side of the same coin. Peace Out.

This is all very sad. Honestly, there is nothing in this world that I want so desperately that I would be willing to trample another shopper. In a "mad max " world I would be willing to fight for food and basic necessities to care for my family but, barring an extreme situation, I see no value at all in creating such a fracas that people get hurt over a toy. I am only in my fifties and have seen this happen over the years. Remember the "Tickle me Elmo" craze and the Cabbage Patch Kids? Both disasters for shoppers and bonanzas for the retailers. When will people realize the only winners in this are the manufacturers and sellers? They are making "monkeys" out of all of you and laughing all the way to the bank. If everyone said NO like us and didn't get whipped into a moblike frenzy, there would be none of this. I shop all year round, keep a "closet" of "suprises" and use online coupon codes. Don't fall for this nonsense that the item can't be ordered online. When a retailer does this, I go elsewhere. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanza and whatever else people celebrate this time of year. The true meaning of the "Holidays" can't be bought in a store. I wish all of you peace, prosperity and contentment in whatever you do. If you need a job or are struggling, my condolences and prayers for a better future. We need a little compassion and patience not pepper spray.

Damn...you beat me to it. ;)

Haha, you both beat me to it... :p

Wal-mart or any other store has nothing to do with this. A consumerist culture of the lowest common denominator is the cause. How many TV's do people need?

TVs...let me see. Hmmm? Living room, kitchen, family room, bedroom, kids' bedrooms(2), garage, gramp's room, deck, tool shed, office....I count 11. Yes, I need eleven TVs. How do people even do it in the third world? I can't stand missing Dancing with the Stars...

What? You dont watch tv in the bathroom?? And lets not forget 2 tvs in the mini van!!!

DanSok101

How many TV's do people need?

Poor in America is defined by the # of Tv's one has (not money). If you only have 1 you are poor, if it is B/W you are destitute. Homeless is defined as not having an Xbox or Nintendo.

Well, damn...I only have one tv and it's 10 years old so I guess I'm officially poor. I live alone so I don't see the need for multiple tvs and I don't see the point in buying a new one when the old one is working perfectly fine.

The Cabbage Patch dolls are pushing forty.

me too logical lol though my TV is only a little over a year old (we needed a new one) I've never believed in TV's in the bedrooms though that's a place for rest not watching TV.

I personally have never shopped on "Black Friday" and stories like this article just reaffirm my reasoning not to.

Homeless is defined as not having an Xbox or Nintendo.

Yeah! Right! That is why they have a flat color TV right next to the cardboard box and the bottle that they use to pee...

You need to volunteer, and see for yourself how homeless people REALLY live

Hey Lasky, I have a completely materialistic friend who thought it would be some sort of social advancement if she put tv's in all three of her bathrooms. Oh, and not just 4 screens in her yacht sized suv, but 4 screens all on DIFFERENT operating systems, "so that the kids don't fight over what to put on"..... so we're up to 18 tv's.....

I gave away my only Tv now I don't have one, best thing I ever did! can still watch movies and get news over the Internet, but I'm in control and save $60.00 a month on 150 Chanel's of paid programming. sick of infomercials.

you hit the nail on the head mali. what ever happened to the kids reading a book, doing a crossword puzzle, word find puzzle, math puzzles while you travel and people wonder why our children no longer have the skills needed to become engineers and scientists in the united states or the ablility to do well in school.

Nothing shows your average american like a trip to the walmart !

Then DON'T take your small children out to shop at MIDNIGHT on black Friday!

that is what always got me....parents took their children Black Friday shopping..when the children got tired they started acting like children and the parents would get mad and angry at them...they were just being themselves...you did this to them Helllllooooo!

It is amazing how gas prices are getting lower as the price of crude continues to skyrocket. Must be the new math.

@ FED-UP.....you see the oil companies have been reaming us big time for years with speculaters artificially inflating the price....they could sell it to us at $1.00 a gallon and still make record profits!

By inflation standards it should only be $2.00 a gallon. if the price of oil came down to where its supposed to be this country could go back to work.

The price of a barrel of oil has nothing to do with the price of a gallon of gas.

The price of oil going up while the price of gas is going down was predicted over a year ago.

Just as the value of the dollar against other currencies is going up and was predicted to go up, even though the Fed is holding rates so low to prevent just that from happening.

They were both reported as signs, indicators if you will, that the final crash is on it's way.

This information is all over the Web, if you care to look.

@display names suck

I don't understand.... If you are (1)a single parent with (2)little outside support and (3)you are trying to save money by taking advantage of the best sale prices of the year, why wouldn't you take your children with you? Lots of people can't afford babysitters.....

On second thought.....I understand COMPLETELY why one would make that ignominious statement you made.

From what I read and see, sounds like she may have been a little scared as Gunner-2802677 stated.

If "you" are a single parent that can't afford a babysitter maybe you shouldn't be buying such big expensive items in the first place. I wonder if you even read your comment before you posted.

I am glad black friday is finally over with! I love to shop but I hate those large crowds! Black friday is a pain in the a*s*s! Shoppers acting like savages! Its safer to stay at home and shop online! Wished they would ban black friday!

kennyfreethinker, Well said!

Douche bag post. I guess people cant possibly be responsible for their actions. It HAS to be the greedy corporations. LOL. Please move somewhere else. We dont want you here. And by the way you need to sell your computer and everything else these greedy corporations sold to you so you arent such a hypocrite.

Corporations have no need to make people act like wild dogs. People do it by themselves, giving into their base feelings of greed, animosity toward those who have more and better, and want of status symbols.

Spain has the running of the bulls, the US has Black Friday.

While I agree that corporations have done much to feed the "Black Friday" hysteria, I strongly disagree that they should be held responsible for the violent actions of customers. Yes ... there are things that stores could, and should, do to prevent the pushing, shoving, running, and trampling. But in the end, regardless the advertising, the big discounts, the huge sales ... the violence was the actions of individuals. They should be held accountable. If stores create potential hazards, or allow individuals to assault or batter other customers, then, in those instances, perhaps the specific store location should be called to account for failing to ensure a safe shopping environment for everyone. But pinning the blame for Black Friday madness soley on the corporations fails to hold accountable those who are truly to blame.

While I agree that corporations have done much to feed the "Black Friday" hysteria, I strongly disagree that they should be held responsible for the violent actions of customers. Yes ... there are things that stores could, and should, do to prevent the pushing, shoving, running, and trampling. But in the end, regardless the advertising, the big discounts, the huge sales ... the violence was the actions of individuals. They should be held accountable. If stores create potential hazards, or allow individuals to assault or batter other customers, then, in those instances, perhaps the specific store location should be called to account for failing to ensure a safe shopping environment for everyone. But pinning the blame for Black Friday madness soley on the corporations fails to hold accountable those who are truly to blame.

Uh Duh duh. Youre both wrong. 10:20 PT is 1:20 ET.

Well, that explains it.

NO 10:20 pm PT is 7:20 pm ET. 3 hours difference.

Right now in ET it is 10:59 am in PT it is 7:59 am....come on people!

ok , forgive me, I just got up anyway. Reverse that it would be 1:20 am. Sorry!

Interesting math the article uses.

Holy-cow we can't even get the time right!!

Math lessons every Tuesday night at 8:00pm est...5:20pm pst..... ~.~

It must be that NEW MATH that we have been teaching these last 40 or so years

Just because people waitng in line for better buys does not mean they are low income earners or people on assistance.

Most people can not order thousands of dollars worth of items from the net and pay hundereds of dollars in delivery charges to have it sent to their homes. People such as youself, can do such and not have to mingle with those you see as worthless in your eyes.

When I have difficulties with money I do not spend in trivial crap.

I make toffee every year from Oct-Apr. I use the money I make to pay for Christmas, and put up for vacation in the summer. I sure as hell do not go stand or camp outside of a business for bullsh!t items that would not mean a damn thing to the family members I purchase for. How personal is a damn video game or tv? Most people need less comp, tv and video game time, and more moving their @ss time.

I went to California once, I thought it was Black Friday, but that was just normal behavior.

With all these people out shopping for TV's and big ticket items makes you think, Maybe just maybe

we are not as bad off as they say we are??

Maybe Unemployment is realy 3% not 9%!!

Maybe it's not 1% with all the money??

Maybe were not $14,000,000,000,000.00 in the hole?? ( 14 Trillion looks better in numbers)

Maybe thing are a lot better then we are told??

Maybe Not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't help noticing how most of the stores listed here are Wal-Mart. Says almost as much about Wal-Mart shoppers as People of Walmart dot com.

serpcom - If you really feel the need to shop, shop on-line this weekend. First of all, the stores have more items on-line than they have in the store. There are also a lot more deals. Go to Coupon Cabin - they list 1000s of stores and the coupons they have. Go to Mr. Rebates - you'll not only get the coupons but a rebate. I use it year round if I need anything. I've racked up over $500 in checks from them from ordering on-line. Plenty of free or reduced shipping out there, too. I haven't been to a mall in 3 yrs. - I hate to shop.

Unfortunately, I have to go to the store today - the dog needs food - otherwise I wouldn't leave the house.

I don't have a lot nor do I consider others 'worthless'. I have what I need. As you get older, you'll realize that all you need are the basics - the rest is junk, collecting dust. The most important things that will be remembered, that won't break, disappear and can't be taken away are memories. Those are the things your children wil remember the most.

Yes, family heirlooms have endearing value.

***Shrug*** Some people are not working but some are rich and need the latest staus symbol at the cheapest price so they can brag about it over caviar and merlot. So, yes, we really should go spout on about people using what was originally ours to buy crap. LOL

I guess it's just me, but why would you have your kids out that late in the first place? If she was buying an XBox for a present, doesn't this defeat the purpose of a surprise?

And the true Christmas (Christian) spirit--PEPPER SPRAY!

I'm so glad I did away with that nonsense. Oh, don't worry, my family and I will celebrate a different kind of holiday with many gifts, blessings, food, family time, and all the rest. We will lack for nothing (except maybe violence and pepper spray.)

Is it surprising that people are so rude to cut line if they think they can get away with it. In one way I agree with the pepper spray woman; in another, is it really that important? They've lost a sense of values on both sides of this conundrum. I hope to instill better in my family.

She should have had a gun to "protect" her children!

Also, what right wing nut idiot takes kids to a Black Friday/Thursday night sale............she can easily plead insanity if ever charged with assault by these people who she attacked...........in self defense I'm sure.

OBX, you have no idea about the political standings of this woman. You're as ridiculous as she was by spraying your political hate on others.

Unfortunetly, one person according to the article was SHOT by a mugger in the Walmart parkin lot. I bet numerous were robbed. So a gun might be required shoppin apparel. Each year gets crazier. LOL!

I need nothin so badly to go to one of these sales. The items on super sale should be illegal without the offer of a rain check for people who show up at the stated time and get in line till the time offer is over. Once in line before the time period is over you should be given a rain check.

We really are just animals deep down. Like a hungry pack of wolves fighting over a piece of meat.

I agree with Mac, as the store's couldn't afford to that and then this would end BF. These advertised cheapies are only to get others in, and the few that do get the cheap item, to spend since already there.

My wife and I did lose our minds and try BF once, but never again. The store clerks were fairly indignant with me when I was leaving empty handed, as a couple of things I'd looked for were gone. Guess I didn't buy into 'already there' bit and it upset them.

Pragmatic, you ever see a guy in a bar get mad because another guy was "checking out his girl"? All I see is two rams hitting their skulls together. So, I agree, we're ultimately animals.

Zapper: What an idiotic post? Since when do atheists fess to be bad guys? How about never? It just goes to show you that as an atheist you are willing to bash christians any way you want when that woman was probably and atheist.

YES, THAT WOMAN WAS AN ATHEIST. When will you atheists learn not to hurt others? Don't believe me? See if that kind of behavior would be tolerated in a Christian Bookstore.

Unhappy-Stow it already. You're the biggest hypocrite ON this forum with your holier then thou BS religious intolerance and hatred. Attack. Attack. Attack other users. It's ALL you ever do with your usual gang of extremist right wing trolls who pollute these boards daily. The think tanks must be paying you well for the crap you spew. Thankfully, not all of us fall for it.

@mali-2843586 if you want to see the real type of people that shop at Walmart go to www.peopleofwalmart.com that will open your eyes!

Thanks, but Ima pass on that one. I know that there are good people who shop at Walmart, trying to save money for their families, but...these other greedy mean selfish people...I try to boycott Walmart and spend my money in the small mom and pop stores when I can, in the hopes of saving the little stores from getting wiped out by the big box stores, and I really wish more peeps would do the same. Walmart is not all that.

They acted like animals, they got what they deserved!!! Hooray for the woman with the pepper spray.

!!@!@@

It's crazy to bring your kids shopping on Black Friday. I won't even go myself let alone bring kids. At least no one got trampled to death this year.

greycloud - thanks for that (people of walmart). I've seen those before - always a new crop out there!!! yes, walmart does seem to attract a strange group of characters...

Hooray for the 'kook' with pepper spray? So you mean that anyone should have the right to take whatever action they themselves feel is appropriate because they are always proficient in deciding if another's behavior is inappropriate?

I wish I could thumb up this post again! LOL

I knew it! What took you so freaking long?? Here we go. Lets blame Obama!! I know what- lets compare how many peeps got trampled in the Bush years versus how many get freaking trampled in the Obama years?

Umm... mali you do realize that Cranky was criticizing those who *hypocritically* blame Obama for debt spending while debt spending themselves? (Of course, both forms of debt spending could still be wrong, hypocrisy notwithstanding)

Amazing, just mention "Obama" and the fur begins to fly!!! That also would be George Bush' fault in your average lefty world.

Um yeah. I was just pointing out the Obama reference. No offense was meant.

Clearly this black Friday ugliness is Bush's fault somehow. I'll bet if he hadn't been president black Friday at 12 midnight sales could return to being the clean family fun events they used to be. You know, hay rides from the parking lot to the front of the store, complimentary candy cigarettes for junior, free weenies for the dads, and all the sales staff dressed as safari animals. Ah, I miss the good old days.

The right wingers are out in force today defending their hero George W. You can never say anything bad about W under any circumstances!!!! And forget the detail that nobody except the right wingers actually brought up W. Who needs to remember trivia like that? LOL!!! You right wingers are pure comedy!

mali--yes, Obama was referenced but Cranky62 wasn't blaming Obama; quite the opposite, he appears by his statement to be an Obama supporter.

Cranky62 and jesuguru--I think the vast majority of people on both sides of the political aisle believe that responsible debt spending is OK, whether by government or individuals. Those who criticize Obama are doing so because he and his party are engaging in debt spending that is unsustainable, and they are asking for more spending every time I hear them speak, either outright, or proposing some new program without specifics but that certainly will have a cost associated to it.

NEBodyHome,

Unsustainable debt spending has been going on for 30 years. I've been advocating for a balanced budget since I was a young teenager and when I was a young teenager huge deficits were old news.

Awww Mannn,

This was actually an enjoyable interesting read till you idiots brought out all the Obama/Bush hate.

Can't you guys & gals just put the petty crap away for one day?

I agree, Egilman! It gets so damn tiresome!!

I agree too, and it always starts with some liberal wanting to blame the tea party or republicans or the religious right for all their nonsense. These democrats are a bunch of crying babies.

Unhappy you cant have it both ways. If youre sick of thetiresome political crap, then you can't start talking smack about "democrats are a bunch of crying babies. Just agree and leave the politics on the keyboard. No wonder you're so unhappy!

Presidents always get the blame or credit for deficits/surpluses despite the fact that they have nothing to do with it. Blame/praise Congress instead.

Don't feed the "trolls" and Unhappy is one of the famous ones on here who attacks liberals no matter WHAT the article is about. It could be about comparing stripe and plaid table cloths and Unhappy would find a way to crab about "liberals" or Obama.

Gee -- where's the fun and excitement in that?? LOL!!

I remember one year where I decided to go out on BF and got sick because sick people refused to stay home. It was about 7 years ago when we were having a flu epidemic and massive amounts of people just didn't care.

Human nature. Take cough syrup and a cheap mask for your face along. Or maybe get a flu shot.

i agree there comes a time in life where safety out weighs the savings one can get from black friday, especially when there are more sales that are not misleading happening between then and christmass.

Pepper Spray. The "in" item of 2011 from civilians to thug cops to use on your fellow American. Come on America: "SAY it, don't spray it" and put this crap away already. The whole world IS watching you know.

Hey- maybe we can get a big ole "black Friday" discount on pepper spray at walmart! Then we can just spry the living crap out of whomever annoys us! I like that "trendy" buisness!!

LOL, Great Value Pepper Spray!

Yeah, they should put it on for half time at the super bowl. It's great entertainment watching the mindless among us try and kill each other for cheep goods. Don't worry folks, China has plenty too go around.

Oh my goodness, I really have bought pepper spray at Walmart to put on my car keychain....LOL!

A place where a bunch of losers go to punch each other's lights out and let loose on the pepper spray at midnight.

Do they serve cocktails?

You must be writing from Mars......

Satire isn't lost on you, IRESPOND!

Thank you...

WalMart is where Paris Hilton shops for walls.

Supposedly its the one day of the year when retailers make enough profit to get the books out of the red and into the "black". But now, its the one day of the year where your as likely to get a "black eye" as not if you shop at wallyworld...Just sayin

Mali. Thanks for the info. Was wondering that myself as I have never heard of it. Black Fridays, Saturdays etc here in Australia mean "bushfires and death"...Do you have sales on Dec 26th as well??? For us that is Boxing day and they have their sales then...Have never had Thanks Giving but always looks so good etc on TV and seems bigger than Christmas...Is that the case?....Hope you had a Happy Thanks Giving anyway.

Shona1, yup. Bushfires and death, is what black Friday is here too except its more like gunfires and death. Some of us go to Walmart in the wee hours and have well, just that. And while it looks really good on tv, Thanksgiving is our time to celebrate our loved ones and really reflect on the things we are thankful for. I love Thanksgiving because its not about buying a bunch of useless meaningless crap that our kids wont give a second thought to 3 days after Christmas. But no, sadly, to some folks, Thanksgiving is second to Christmas, I am so ashamed to say...But thanks for the comment. And Very Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

skilife,

You got me wondering about Black Friday too so I googled it. Here are the three definitions I found.

Black Friday

1. September 24, 1869, the day the markets crashed following a failed attempt by some financiers to corner the gold market. Led to a depression.

2. In a more general sense, any Friday in which a public calamity occurred.
3. More recently, the term Black Friday has been applied to the day after Thanksgiving in which retailers make enough sales to to put themselves "into the black ink."

Shona1; Thanksgiving has been with us (the US) since the 1700's, but was made an official holiday by President Abe Lincoln in 1863, in the midst of our Civil War.

When I was in grade school (grammer school) in the late '50's, it was a very special holiday in its own right. Now, it seems to have morphed into nothing more than a prelude to Christmas (which we have been hearing about since Haloween!). Sad.

Yes, there are many sales on Dec 26th, your, and I might add, our Canadian friends to our north, Boxing Day. There are some very good deals to be had then.

By the way, the Canadians celebrate their Thanksgiving around Oct 12, which is our Columbus Day holiday. Do you celebrate Victoria Day? The Canadians celebrate it a week before our Memorial Day in late May. I listen to a great radio station from Toronto, eh! Nice country.

Cheers.

Boxing day is what we should call black Friday.

Evening Bill..Thanks for the info...Victoria Day no not heard of that one. We have Australia Day Jan 26th when the first settlers and convicts (who we are extremely proud of) rolled up from England...Memorial Day would be our ANZAC day (Australia and New Zealand) which is on April 25th...remembers the fallen in WW1 and all wars after. And Remembrance Day Nov 11 the end of WW1. Funny you mentioning Halloween as it starting to come into Australia. It means absolutely nothing here we have never ever celebrated it, but the Supermarkets are pushing it like mad to sell the lollies etc. And on that note I must away. It is 1.25am and I need my sleep. Nice chatting...

Mali................great new name, I like it.........."Black Eye Friday"

Halloween means nothing here either, unless you work for a candy company. Most American holidays are just sales events and have little to do with actual celebration of anything. It didn't use to be that way, but in the end greed always prevails and someone figures out a way to exploit good intentions to make a few bucks.

I'm not too sure about the order of importance. Christmas is a great holiday, but I think there is more preparation for Thanksgiving. Even if it's just the immediate family, there is tha half day anticipation, not counting the day or two preparation baking pies, etc. A few days of shopping for the traditional foods, and then finally the day. Parades all morning on TV and a long sit-down with the family , hopefully eating well.

Christmas is usually over before the adults wake up. The children have unwrapped everything and there is the mess to clean up till noon. The kids take their toys away and you don't see them for the rest of the day. The adults have probably swapped gifts the night before, just to be able to do so in quiet, private time. Some people go to church that morning and it usually means putting on the best one-up clothing you have. When you get home about 10 AM or so, the day is done, unless you spent time duplicating the Thanksgiving dinner.

But, yes, Christmas is the time that most money is spent, so I guess that might make it the "Biggest" holiday.

Evening Iowa..It is late at night here and when I first read the article I thought it said "Rapid cow movement"..I thought that does not make sense till I re read it..But on second thoughts....Good night...

Every year in Spain, they have the running of the bulls.

Every year in the US, they have the running of the sheep.

And every 4 years we in the US have to endure the Presidential "running" That topple all of the others, including the bulls. The "Presidential Hopefuls" are the worse bullies ever....

IRESPOND, just wondering if you're on the same page with everyone else. . .I'm starting to think you've lost your way on the World Wide Web which, for the record, can be a slippery slope. Did you fall down and hit your head? Good GRIEF! WAY off-topic and annoying to boot. Join is in The Now, won't you?

IRESPOND, just wondering if you're on the same page with everyone else. . .I'm starting to think you've lost your way on the World Wide Web which, for the record, can be a slippery slope. Did you fall down and hit your head? Good GRIEF! WAY off-topic and annoying to boot. Join is in The Now, won't you?

The last time I looked it was a Free country with freedom of speech, unless people LIKE YOU have already taken over...If you dislike my comments so much...WHY ARE YOU READING THEM?

Ha Ha HA

"running of the sheep" and "rapid cow movement" I love it!

Normally (when stores in the past waited until 5 or 6 am to open) I suffer from rapid eye movement during Black Friday shopping due to my life-long boycott.

best destiny: Another one of your stupid comments? I can't keep track of them all.

I've always been taught that sheep are followers of Christ. In a way good people, religious or not, that treat others with love and respect are sheep. Good people. You might say then that we have our own "Running of the Bulls" but sadly our bulls have minds but have lost them.

Heidi, you are wasting your time. People like Best Destiny think that if we show kindness to them then we are a "bunch of morons and are just following the herd". If we get fed up and treat them like the way they treat us, we are called "hypocrites". There is saying for that; they are all a bunch of spoiled brats. People like that deserve hell and everything that goes with it.

i have been tdy to spain in the past and did running of the bulls. but seeing all the stuff being done with black friday i am afraid to participate in it.

I know. I just really wanted to say "Uh Duh duh". Never got to do it before...Seemed like it might be a fun thing to try. lol

i wonder if people that are addicted with black friday will try the old time line thing like some do with new years. so they can get 3 black fridays in one year.

Because Walmart encites these people to do this crap. They set about playing with their heads and financial difficulty and every year since they started these black Friday events someone has been killed or maimed in the melee. They are legally responsible for the customers they have in their stores.

Walmart is wrong. . .the pushy people in line were wrong. . .the woman using the pepper spray was wrong. . .it's all wrong.

The stores are partly responsible for any ensuing madness imo. They all could implement measures to ensure customer safety and make the whole thing organized instead or the free-for-all anarchy it is.

It's store against store. Each one trying to entice the customer to come to their store first. Therefore, earlier openings than the other guys. Can't blame the stores but you can blame the customers. None of this would be a problem if people accepted responsibility for their actions but that is no longer required. Everything is someone else's fault. I'll bet the pepper sprayer will tell you she didn't want to do it but was forced to act to protect herself. It was someone else's fault.

Lucky for me I have no gray areas when it comes to right and wrong and accepting responsibility for such. That is the difference between now and 50 years ago.

My two teenaged children wanted the "Black Friday Experience" so we lined up at 10:30 pm for the Midnight opening at the Target store by our home. The line was well lit with security and store personnel monitoring the progress and handing out maps to where the "doorbusters" were located. People were in good spirits on a chilly Florida evening and the line was fun. The doors opened at midnight and the store allowed 30 people in at a time with 10-15 second intervals between groups. The employees were helpful, the store well stocked and organized, and even though it was crowded, things went smoothly. Even the check out lines, though snaked through aisles in the store, moved quickly, and within 1 hour and 45 minutes we were finished, out , and happy with our purchases. Job well done Target . Happy Holidays.

That's why I do my shopping online.

Hi Sleepy but Happy in TPA,

Thank you for reporting a nice experience. Everybody is so negative and critical all the time. There are some good stories out there. I wish the media would reports them as well...And for all you who think this is restricted to "America," not hardly....Greed, rudeness and inexcusable behavior exists around the world. Open your eyes. I don't think it's fair to totally pin this on Americans across the board. I happen to be a pretty non-materialistic person and I don't like the fact that people are stereotyping all of us. Besides with the economy the way it is, I don't have enough $$$ to be materialistic! :)

And you wonder why online shopping sites like Amazon.com and Buy.cpm are doing very well this week....

Stay home and stay away from Wal-mart.

first reaction: haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalmfao...second thought: damn, this scum is breeding and voting and driving....DAMN!!!....maybe instead of bombing innocent turd worlders we should bomb walmarts?...the stupidity and greed are the real enemy here and the enemy is us.