Reason number 101 as to why people should have to pass a test to have children.

Inexcusable...........LOCK the parents up

Yet advocates of this "personhood" ridiculousness want every pregnant woman to become a mother. And they refuse to listen to reality. Imbeciles.

I fully agree, along with a psychological test too.

I fully agree, along with a psychological test too.

That these parents would live in such squalor and filth clearly indicates some severe emotional and/or mental issues. They are incapable of caring for any children and they don’t seem to be able to adequately care for themselves.

@mozzie: I think you've sort of missed the point of the "personhood" position. It's not that they want every pregnant woman to become a mother. It's that they don't want women who aren't prepared to become mothers to become pregnant. HUGE difference.

(Don't try arguing the "they're against birth control and sex ed" thing; that's incorrect as well. In most cases it's simply a matter of parents preferring to impart that information at home within the context of their own value system rather than someone else's. Sure, there are many whose parents won't impart that information, but that doesn't give the State the right to undermine the parenting of those who will. Ironically, it's generally the liberal left position which says schools can't distinguish between students that makes this an all-or-nothing proposition. Otherwise, schools could implement programs from which parents who are actually parenting could opt out - allowing students without concerned parents to get the information they need to avoid unwanted pregnancy.)

Miker I think he's talking about abortion. The general thought is that irresponsible people that get pregnant should be able to use abortion as birth control no matter how far along they are in their pregnancy. With this thought a baby isn't a baby until it's actually born and can be aborted any time before then up to labor and delivery. It's one thing to get an abortion at eight weeks. It's a whole different thing at eight months.

Oh, Miker, such spin. Everyone knows the religious zealots on the right (at least in public) rail against sex, sex education, and anything which could make sex safer. Abstinence Only! And if you get pregnant or catch an STD, that's your just punishment. It has nothing to do with wanting to "impart information at home". What a load of crock. Your spin is about as effective as that whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" meme when it comes to leaving homosexuals alone. They don't want to leave them alone. They want them "in their place" as second class citizens and will do all they can to ensure such an outcome. The far right is hung up on sex and wants to project their own ill will / hate onto others. It has nothing to do with individualism. Funny how the religious right, supposedly following Jesus - a man of peace - seems to embrace an ideology fueled by hate, intolerance, and anger, isn't it?

Johnathan..I've always wondered why those who live in such abject ignorance are the same people who spend more of their time in bed making babies than they do caring for the babies that are already made. These are the same Bible thumpers who are rutting pigs in bed and justify that sinlessness by calling it "marriage". Meanwhile, she's pregnant and the Great Religious Hunters are headed for Gilly's ready to rock and roll with anything in a skirt.

Those 2 loons need to hook up with Crazy Anthony and open a child care business...Animals don't even begin to treat their offspring like that....Moron's...

Miker - It's not that they want every pregnant woman to become a mother. It's that they don't want women who aren't prepared to become mothers to become pregnant.

BS. If what you say is remotely correct, which it is not, where do they get off telling women what to do with their own lives?!! I hope they go flat broke in their attempts at passing this utter nonsense. They want to exert their rights, as they see it, at the same time the hell with everyone else's.

Johnathan: Right on.

@Johnathan

A) Where is all this hate coming from? You sound like you're near to foaming at the mouth with rage against God and His followers.

B) You couldn't be more wrong. The Right does not rail against sex, sex Ed or safer sex and if you actually believe that then you are highly deluded. Yes they promote abstinence, what would you expect? It is the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancy, STDs, general promiscuity, etc. But they are not against the information being available. As Miker pointed out quite well, most do not want the State requiring it be taught in school to all, most of us would prefer that be a decision left up to us to make for our own children. The State has no business teaching my kid about morality decisions, that is up to me as a parent. The State has no morals, therefore they can't be entrusted to instill any in the child. The classes should be available for those parents who are unable or unwilling to do their job as a parent but should not be forced upon every child out there.

The world just gets weirder and weirder. Every time I think I've heard it all, something new like this pops up. I've reached the point where my mouth drops open yet somehow its all so frequent I'm becoming numb. Does anybody have a remote deserted tropical island for sale at a bargain price? I'll be happy to make an offer.

If the state has no morals then they have no right to impose ANY moral standard on ANYONE,right or left!Your morals may not be mine,so quit trying to force them on me.

MrEd -- The birds and the bees (procreation) should be taught in school without preaching. There are a good number of parents still who have a hard time telling their kids the simple facts of procreation; and since kids seem to mature earlier and earlier, they need to know. I agree with you that teaching morals should be left to the parents. I would not have wanted my children taught rules that were created by politicians who, generally speaking, have no morals whatsoever. Politics and people's sex lives do not mix and all too often these matters, such as abortion and gay marriage, are used to divert the attention away from much more pressing problems, such as job creation, poverty, and national debt. As far as this case is concerned, there are people who should not have children and the only alternative here is to take the children away and put the parents in jail for a good long time. Unfortunately, they'll probably be let out in a couple of years and start all over again.

Sounds like the mom is a drug addict. Hopefully she never gets the toddler back. Of course she will probably have several more kids by several more men.

...and all of this mess with entitlement to a (legal) marriage certificate, but obviously no parental skills, social skills or a 'breeding permit' required? Amazing!

bet he's a winner...ole skinner skinner ...

If people had any sense of shame (not religious, just plain ol' integrity), they would think twice about being ostracized from the community. We don't have that anymore, nor do we think it's bad for the home environment to consist of bad habits, promiscuity, lack of educational tools (money spent on booze, cigarettes, rather than books, lessons, etc) and opportunities.

It's sad to me that all children do not the same starting point, giving them a huge disadvantage. And we simply make believe it doesn't matter.

Dont worry folks, Bubba's waitin for him at the Marrietta maximum security for the deranged!

You see, according to Bubba, nothing pisses him more than wanna be tough guys who abuse children and women...

Word on the street is, Skinner better pass through Walmart and get himself some Engine grease on the way to jail...

@Susi

As I said, the classes should be available, but requiring my child be taught by the school is wrong, period. It is not the State's place to be teaching my child about sex, that is mine and his mother's place. She and I are actually concerned caring parents who taught our son our way to include our values. I don't want my child being taught to accept that homosexuality is "normal", it is not. I have nothing against those who are, that is their life and their decisions, but I don't want some school bureaucrat teaching my kid that it is ok, normal and acceptable. Nor do I want him being taught that if he were to get a girl pregnant that abortion is an acceptable answer, no need to take responsibility for your actions, just kill the baby. I am not one of these people who think the State should be in the business of raising children, that job belongs to the parents, leave it to the parents.

... and this months Darwin Award goes to . . .

How does this evolve into a discussion about sex ed? People like this breed. It doesn't take any education, one way or the other, and they wouldn't listen if they had it. Teens are no different. With teens, the hormones overcome thought, and their reason centers aren't even developed yet. That's why abstinence only is a pipe dream. You may as well lead an alcoholic to a liquor store, give him a credit card, and say, "don't drink."

I WISH we had a way of preventing people like this from having children, but this is not 1939, and only the Germans had the stomach for sterilization enmasse.

The only solution is the one we use: educate, monitor, prosecute. It's not great, but it's what we've got.

WTP...????

Families teach moral values, not the state. Since these two so-called parents have neither, then we'll turn them over to the state.

@Jonathan Ivan: Spin? Is that what you call facts that dissemble your opinion? Interesting. Funny that you should be one to malign anyone for "railing."

BTW: "Load of crock?" What the hell does that even mean? It's very amusing when someone gets so wrapped up in their own baseless opinion that they can't even speak!

Wow, she's about 23 with 4 kids?

@Mozzie: Saw a GREAT bumper sticker today. It said:

"Abortion doesn't make you un-pregnant. It makes you the mother of a dead baby."

Pretty well sums up the fundamental argument on that subject. Remember when you were 15 in the back seat with your boyfriend and he was trying to get in your pants and you said, "No?" That's when you make the choice. Making the wrong choice doesn't give you the "right" to choose your consequences. Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your body. That's a decision you make when you open your legs.

@Miker: You're still trying to tell people how to live their lives when you have no right to do that. When you get 75 people to agree with your comments, as I have with mine, then we can have a reasonable discussion. Obviously you cannot; and so, this conversation is finished.

By the way, my real name is Mort, and I don't have a boyfriend.

Over 900 people agreed with Jim Jones. That doesn't mean he was right.

The birds and the bees (procreation) should be taught in school without preaching

I agree that the birds and the bees should be taught without preaching, but advocating that it be done in school on school time (beyond basic health education) is just foisting another job of parenting off on the teachers. You have no idea what today's academic curriculum involves, and the teachers in my school are booked to the minute every single day. The state and federal government have dumped huge burdens on us without providing more time, more money, more space, more materials, or more teachers. In fact, we haven't hired other than replacing retirements for two or three years. Our classes are getting huge. We already feed our kids breakfast, provide a before and after school program, bring in a dentist, eye doctors, and nurses for scoliosis screening. Our social worker has taken children to the dentist office and to get their shots at the free clinic. We provide them with warm coats, mittens and hats. Teachers often go to Goodwill on their own time and spend their own money to get them. That's besides the average $500-$1000 teachers spend out of their own pockets every years because their budgets are so small.

We are already doing discipline that should be taught by the parents, providing them with mentors (volunteers) during school time, which means while they are being mentored they aren't in class. Most of the children wouldn't need mentors if the parents were doing an active job of parenting. We have social workers and psychologists, one of each for every two buildings in our system, who attempt to repair whatever the parents have screwed up.

No, I think all the children should be brought to your house so you can teach them sex education.

Church: Well thought-out statements by you. Many, many parents think that their job ends with the birth of their children. I am with you on the overburdening of our teachers. It's really shameful that some parents expect teachers to pick up the slack when they are too lazy or ignorant to do these tasks themselves. And the kids - to say nothing of society - lose out when the ball gets dropped somewhere along the line.

@Mort: Not quite sure where you get off saying that I'm telling anyone what to do. Sounds to me like you're one of those "open-minded" types who is open minded right up until someone disagrees with you.

If getting 75 people to vote up your comment is any sort of suggestion that you're actually right about anything, I think you're going to have a very difficult time swallowing some of the positions I've posted on NV for which I've received far more than 75 votes. . . Hope you like guns. For starters.

Actually, given your comment

When you get 75 people to agree with your comments, as I have with mine, then we can have a reasonable discussion.

I'd say the chances of anyone having a reasonable discussion with you are slim to none. (See Edna's comment above.)

Mr Ed::: What makes you think that abstinance only works? I bet Sarah Palin preached it to Bristol-- and look at the results. Now that baby's mama is preaching it. She should be preaching that a woman should not get drunk and spread her legs. The guy poked fun at her and she took him seriously.

She should have used an ASPIRIN. What the gal does is put the aspirin between her thighs and DON"T let it fall out from there!

glimmmerr

There's no excuse for filth and nailing a door closed (unless the scumbag boyfriend was threatening to hurt the little one and he was placed in the room for his own protection).

Meaning, the boyfriend would not be able to open a door nailed shot! I guess he must be a paralytic!!

In that case it would be better to nail the boyfriend in the filthy room.

Edna...OMG...Too true and too funny. "Boyfriend" is the operative word here. How do these loony women always choose guys who have no clue what commitment, much less marriage, really means?

ewent,

because they are loony women.......Worse than men..

dano....No woman is worse than any man.....She brings them here. Something men can't do without fainting at the sight of blood. Men are now and always will be irresponsible some of which is directly attributable to their mothers overindulging male children. Take a good look at what passes these days for male CEOs. Find one who isn't a psychopath with aggressive killer tendencies to get to the top. Take a good look at what passes for politicians...90% are men with killer instincts who manipulate the entire country to get what they want.

I'm fed up with men getting what they want no matter what extremes they have to go to get it. Their blatant lack of civility is getting worse and worse. They can and do kill their own if its suits their purposes and then turn around and make up more excuses for their uncivilized behaviors.

Sorry, blaming it all on women is a man's way of excusing his irresponsibility.

They also believe they have to have a "man" to be whole. Therefore they put up with whatever they have to in order to stay in the relationship including neglecting their children.

glimmer...Don't be surprised if he was the one who nailed the room shut. Control freak males have no problem keeping anyone who threatens their role of superiority by casting them out of their view. Joel Steinberg remember?

ewent -- that's a gross generalization. There are women who are every bit as bad as the men you describe. There are female CEO's and politicians who are as ruthless as any male, and the woman in the article definitely is a very bad apple and a poor excuse for a human being, regardless of the fact that she's obviously at the bottom of the socio-economic heap. People like that shouldn't be allowed to procreate; but since this is a free country, the best we can do is throw them in jail for a long time and take the kids away to be placed in a safe and loving environment.

I think there are women who seek a man to feel safe and protected because their own daddies didn't to do the job while they are growing up. The women then pick weirdos because they have no idea about what makes a good man, and then their weirdo just makes their life worse and it goes on in a cycle. I think poor parenting creates the monster boyfriend too. And it goes on and on and on.

I don't know what foster care is like in your state Susi-Oh, but in some states, foster care is worse than living with the crazy parents. I don't know the answer. Also, teaching abstinence is kind of like Nancy Reagan's "Just say no"...a joke.

She needs some parenting classes and lot of support to raise her unborn...

No, what she needs is to have her tubes tied. She already has one child that she obviously does not want or love, but then she turned around and got pregnant again. We know what causes that nowadays. There is no reason for the scumbag of a mother to get pregnant with a second child when she obviously did not want the first one enough to leave this pathetic excuse for a boyfriend. That child doesn't stand a chance because so much of human behavior is implanted by the age of three and because he will probably spend his formative years bounced around from one foster home to another.

I hope that at birth, her baby is taken from her and adopted by a couple who are strangers to her, who are on the waiting list (having been screened with back ground checks and all), and not given to some relative who will drop it back at her place at the first convenient moment.

Forget giving any child to either biological dads or their relatives. They apparently don't care about their own babies, if they even knew that they existed.

Do you really think the boyfriend is the problem? Open your eyes. This woman thinks she needs a man and she doesn't care what kind she gets. Children are only a means to the end. She is probably on welfare and will use children to collect as much as she can. This woman needs steralized and the children she does have taken from her for good.

The "system" is going to give her child back to her and will not follow-up on this. These children are doomed to a life of squalor and abuse.

I have got to agree.....'welfare mother DO NOT make better lovers'.....sorry Neil

glojeans...Some reason men cannot police their own? Some reason only the women are always to blame for everything that goes wrong in a man's existence? Sorry, that doesn't compute. Men have been evading responsibility for far too long. That child HAD a father. Where the hell is he in all of this? How often did Baby Daddy visit his child? Or was this another of those Mano e Mano guy things where boyfriendo was too insecure to allow the child's father to see his kid?

Welfare mothers wouldn't exist if men would police their own instead of making every excuse in the book for their irresponsibility. Sorry...time to call it like it is. No woman has a child without help from a man who runs the other way the minute he's made his bank deposit.

How about men learn to grow up and accept responsibility for their behavior instead of making more excuses no one falls for anyway?

I am always amazed at how quick people are to decide how all of humanity should loose their rights because of the few bad ones. it is a stupid idea to say that parents or women should be forced to take test, get licenses, or be forced to have someone violate you and tie your tubes! first of all you need licenses for all those things because the government wants money. and if they could force you to get a permit to have children and to breathe they would! more money and more control.so to the fools who support that I say you don''t belong in America! Yes there are people that are bad parents. There are also people who go and open their legs and allow unborn BABIES to get ripped out piece by piece and they fight for the right to do that. There are also people who smoke(gasp) in the presence of their children knowing that it can give them health problems. Bad Parents! And lets not forget to criticize the parents who are neglectful and let day care take care of their kids from 7 a.m. to 7p.m. why should they be allowed to have kids that someone else is going to raise? Wow there are soo many stipulations and judgements we can make about who is a good and bad parent. So whose ideas are we going to follow? Oh yeah let's ask the lawmakers to make laws about who should be allowed to become a parent. Never mind that half of the men are doing little boys themselves! And then when they take the kids away from the long list of unfit parents they can put them in abusive foster homes where they will disapear(as happens today). My point in this is that all of humanity is imperfect. All they can do is what they do, have a systme set up to investigate parents who are harming their children(cps) and then let the justice systme deliver a harsh punishment to the parents that are found guilty. You can't just start taking away everyone's rights to supposedly stop all crime. That never has worked and never will.

taryta...This woman lives in one of those red states that men rule with iron hands. It's the state that believes women don't need educations but only men do...Men are the HEADS of Household and as such get first crack at all the goodies.

That's a cultural thing that hasn't changed in 150 years in those states. It's why you rarely find a southern white male supremacist who can tolerate a highly educated, accomplished woman in a position of authority. To this breed, no woman is ever equal in brains or rights.

JoAnn...He hit her and it wasn't the first time. It never is with this kind of man. He's always so sorry later but the damage to the woman's self-respect is already compromised. Until women are paid equally to the way men are paid, there's no way they will ever be able to be completely independent. Men know this. It's why male business owners always pay their female employees lower than the men they consider "Head of Household". HE needs HIS job. She doesn't, according to their numbnuts thinking.

@ Ewent; While it is obvious that you have a serious psycological problem with men, I DO agree with most everything you've said about them (I think they're scum too). Only two things come to mind though. 1, there ARE good men out there, although snapped up quickly by the 'smart' women, and 2, there ARE women dumb enough to be fooled by the a$$hole men out there, and then when it's too late (usually for financial reasons), find themselves trapped and don't know how or where to get help to get away. But some blame must be given to the women with a supposed head on their shoulders for getting involved with jerks like this, much less getting pregnant by them. In every relationship, it 'takes two to tango', and usually in a case like this the woman is no better than the man, unless she's one of those really, really dumb ones I just mentioned.

@ewent,

Absolutly right. All those southern states are exactly the same. Take South Carolina for instance. They would never elect a woman as governor. And Georgia doesn't have any women in power. Its not like the Speaker Pro-Tempore or the Caucus Majority Chairman are both women. Oh wait, yes they are and they are Republicans to boot. In fact there are six female governors, and four of them are Republicans and five of the six are Southern, either East, NC and SC, or west, OK, AZ, and NM. The only Northern state is Washington.

I believe it said "Mother" and boyfriend. First line of article.

janierock......you are sooooo totally correct. Our society is pathetic. I cannot believe what has happened to us. What in the hell are these people thinking??? If you walk through a cemetary you see many graves of children that died in 1800's and early 1900's, usually from disease.......but lately you see a lot of children's graves because their parents killed them. I say these parents should both be sterilized because they surely will not use any birth control and have NO business bringing other children into this world.

recyclecongress - exactly which "cemetary" do you visit? The one where my father and relatives are buried has very few graves of children, plus I doubt that you will see any headstones that state that the children to whom you are referring were killed by their parents. In fact, it is very rare for any headstone to have a statement about how the occupant of the grave perished, be it child or adult. So, exactly how do you know that a child who met an early death was killed by his or her parents?

janierock...Take a look at the post after yours. Still think men don't avoid responsibility and dump it all on women? Men don't mind strutting around with their peacock feathers sticking out like a giant fan but the minute they figure out it's time to man up...the "man" rides off into the sunset and then makes more excuses for why sex is always her fault only.

What educated woman will buy that line of masculine BS?

Wow, Ewent, get some help.

Canadian How true!

Canadian, I agree, but the ACLU would kick up a big fuss saying people's rights are being taken away. We have created a monster in this country.

They tried that already, Canadian. They even posted an article about it. Try looking up North Carolina's forced sterilization and eugenics programs.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43456002/ns/health-health_care/t/nc-grapples-legacy-sterilization-programs

The results were not as wonderful as you seem to think. In fact, they were quite tragic.

Raleigh dolly, I agree. The ACLU would put up a fuss, so I have a solution for that... put the ACLU people in question in that room for 24 hours and nail the door shut. Let them see what its like for a child's rights to be taken away and then see how they feel. That should solve that problem!

yeah dolly, how dare we have the right to tell the government what they can and can't do to our bodies! that ol' freedom monster we've created...

Anna G, I agree. Sometimes the ACLU goes over board.

How is this about the ACLU? They wouldn't want this couple to have their kids, and seriously do you want them to show up and decided you don't do something perfectly and take your kids? How about we stay on topic here....he is scum, she is at the least an abused and controlled woman and at the worst a willing participant, and she is pregnant again with another future abused child. How about we keep the ACLU out of this and focus on the real issues here?

This is a CPS issue and nothing to do with the ACLU. The poor child:(

Well, Kiadi, they did it the wrong way. If they did to people like these, it shouldn't EVER be a problem.

Kiadi - the North Carolina eugenics program had absolutely nothing to do with unfit parents. Perhaps you should reread the article for which you posted a link. Try posting something that is actually related to the topic at hand.

UM....take a chill pill. You seem to come on here to berate others.....

Canadian...I'm not for forcing anyone into anything they don't want. Dollar to a donut if birth control was as well proliferated as Viagra and as easy to get, you think any woman rich or poor wouldn't protect herself?

The problem is that birth control is seen as "bad" in DogPatch where the "Bible tells them so." While Viagra is seen like an answer to an old man's prayer to procreate or at the very least, enjoy himself until it falls off from age.

ewent- Try going to a free clinic and getting viagra. I think your attempt to make your point has made you post a ridiculous statement. Birth control has been around a long time and in most places even a teenager can get it without parental permission. It is easier to get and more available than Viagra. I understand that you have your opinions. If you have to argue for them by posting lies though, you might want to rethink a few of them.

johnr...My post isn't as ridiculous as yours. Give it up. Birth control is costly and not nearly as costly a Viagra...why? If you don't have healthcare insurance that covers birth control, you just don't get it. How many poor white southern women have healthcare insurance? Guess you forgot that little fact of life.

For that matter how many poor women of any race have adequate healthcare insurance to cover birth control? Sure you can go to a clinic...only after you fill out wads of paperwork proving you are eligible for clinic healthcare. When men have to go through this same BS, let me know.

As for the lies in your post, you might want to rethink your position. When healthcare is as cheap for women as it is for men, your post would be valid.

When men take over the responsibilities of the children they bring into the world instead of always leaving it to the women....let me know. Till then, there's still plenty of work for men to do before they accept that all women are their equals.

And....remember the attack on Planned Parenthood, the agency that ACTUALLY PROVIDES BIRTH CONTROL for those who can't afford it???? Nothing makes sense. People bitch about women having babies and yet they want to get rid of agencies like Planned Parenthood. As for the Southern States comments. There are many states in this Country where women are poor and uneducated...what is it with the attack on the south? I live in the south and there are many stupid people here...JUST LIKE in the rest of the country. Stupid is stupid. North or South, Right or Left. Period.

I am actually shocked no one has blamed Obama for this yet...seems to happen a lot on this site.

I'm not sure going to a national level would make a difference. Many won't for fear of retaliation. No one can help if no one knows.

Once a human passes from the embryonic stage into human, Congress washes its collective hands of him/her. They are pro 'life," but they'll send your children off to war in a heartbeat. Go figure.

I meant to say "report abuse" in my statement. My apologies to the grammar critics

Of course, some polititians are against abortion. Their bankrollers need the future shoppers and soldiers. The less educated the better.

I meant "politicians". Nothing like including a typo when making a comment about education!

I don't even know what you people are talking about. What do you want Congress to do to prevent cruelty in the home. priorities? they don't give a flying you know what about people at the economic level of this couple and everyone knows it. That child is a casualty of class warfare, more punishment isn't going to stop this, the laws are already there.

People at the "economic level" of this couple get plenty of attention by hardworking taxpayers in the form of social assistance, and yet they keep on breeding, regardless of how woefully incapable of parenting they may be. If they don't like their socioeconomic level, they should do something to change it - learn a trade or get a job (gasp!) - not breed more children they can't support, abuse and neglect the ones they have, and live in filth. They create - and perpetuate - their own misery and visit it upon the innocent children they bring into the world.

I don't know about politics, congress, ACLU, or whatever we want to blame things on. I just know that no child, absolutely no child deserves to be treated so terribly. And, I absolutely know that it will continue to happen until each and every HUMAN BEING, man and woman start assuming responsibililty for their own actions. In this generation of hurry, hurry, hurry are we taking the time to realize that we are leaving our little ones behind. KARMA!

Caligulascousin - I agree fully with your post. However, you have forgotten that one of the motivations for them having more children is that each child increases their free handouts from the government. Have you seen the YouTube video with the woman from California explaining how to use the system by having as many babies as possible?

Bluelake...It's a sad commentary on certain American societal values where a woman is always second to men and children come between the cat and dog in the list of priorities. Until that male superiority BS disappears, illegitimate children and abandoned women and children will continue.

It's a fantasy to think that allowing men to abscond from responsibility from one generation to the next is the answer to solving abortion, unwanted pregnancies and abused children.

All 3 issues take responsibility that has to be born by BOTH involved...not just the woman. Full male responsibility would take nothing short of a miracle to accomplish. SHE can't get pregnant unless HE is willing. Some reason men can't learn to tell women "NO" and mean it where sex is concerned?

UMG

Yep---thanks to Uncle Ronnie who authorized $500 for every child born. Part of his[or Nancy's] nefarious plan to overload and collapse state support systems that the poor and disadvantaged depend on.

I hope this doesn't turn ito a I believe, I don't believe, discussion. It's about a child.

So those of us who are non-believers are now child abusers.. okay.

God doesn't protect the working class from being undercut by labor from foreign nations where workplace conditions and practices would be illegal here. God never had the upper hand in this country, learn your history

Ron from a purely analytical point of view No Tofu is right. I am a Christian but if I put that aside and look at faith as a social engineering experiment it is still effective at altering human behavior. I was raised by my Granny who was an Old Testament quoting Baptist. So often in life when tempted to do wrong or ignore someone doing wrong I hear her voice reminding me that God is always watching us even when nobody else can see what we are doing. Even more effective were the talks she gave about God knowing why we do things because it is easy to pretend you are doing something for altruistic reasons when it is really for personal gain or pleasure. Her lessons have saved me from doing a great many things I would have regretted later. Faith isn't all about forgiveness. It is also about accountability. I am not saying faith would have prevented this story from happening because we do not know the chain of events that led the adults in this case to be who they are but over all it does make a difference. No matter how efficient the nanny state is it cannot compete with the idea that God is always watching and you will burn for eternity. Ironically enough with the comments I see about having to get a license to have children it seems we are doing our level best to give the state God like powers so given enough time instead of children growing up thinking God is watching they will instead learn to look over their shoulders to see if government is watching. I know that humanity can and does twist faith to justify horrible actions but that is true with anything we can corrupt. I am sure there are people who use environmental, social and political causes for personal gain and that is without the fear of having to answer to a higher power in the afterlife. Believe or not as you wish but I have to feel that a code of ethics and a feeling of accountability would benefit a great many people in our society.

PJ I refuse to state whether I believe or don't. There are good and bad on all sides. I just don,t believe this should turn into a believe or don't believe forum instead of what it's about. "CHILD ABUSE".

Sadly, statistically, I am guessing these two adult "pseudo" parents were probably raised as Christians...

OH puhleeezzzz, this is not about religion--AT ALL. It's about a couple of losers who have only one interest, and that's in themselves. This discounts religion, parenting, society, neighborliness, the good of the whole, everything. Pick one and go with it, but it is still "all about them." Children are just one more way to elevate their self importance. Even this horror story will be "all about them." It's sad, but true.

If I had my way, I would definitely see that they would never have another child--either of them; but the law will side with them, to protect their "rights." I know this is a republic, and therefore, we are governed by laws, but sometimes those same laws need to be fine tuned. This is a prime example.

Ron, I think we all agree child abuse is wrong. Discussions of what we think could improve or prevent the situation have a place in the discuss of child abuse. To simply say it is wrong reduces it to the level of discussing the weather. (Weather being fodder for innocuous small talk because we all know we can do nothing about it.) No Tofu stated what I believe to be a valid point and I feel it has as much or more place here as someone stating that you should be forced to get a license to have a child. (I have seen multiple posts of that nature with nobody making comment that they didn't have the right to post that in this discussion.) The only reason I indicated my faith was because I do realise it has an effect on my perspective and I want to be fair and indicate that my opinion is colored by my beliefs.

There are wonderful and awful parents all over the world, and they come from all religious groups and those with no religious affiliations. We could quote statistics on what groups tend statistically to get caught abusing more, but really does that change anything in the real world that people post things in a thread? It comes down to so many variables and we aren't going to qualify them all here.

It was in "God's" name that thousands of natives were slaughtered in unspeakable ways. It was in "God's" name that innocent women were brutalized and tortured, because they were accused of being witches. It was in "God's" name, that the nuns were forced to have sex with their priests and bishops, and upon becoming pregnant, some were sealed, alive in walls, and others had the babies, and those babies were also sealed in walls, alive.
One more example "Spanish Inquisition". If I have to explain that, then you have a problem.

In truth, the most brutal displays of torture have been done in the name of "God". I will never understand the brutal works done in the past, under "his" name, and when something like what happened in this article, as comment is made about "God" being taken out of everything for being the reason. "God" being taken out of everything has nothing to do with this. This has to do with pure selfishness.

I am an atheist, and I will never understand how one needs the threat of hell or the promise of heaven to do something that is right and just, to begin with.

PJ - Ron is right. This is not a discussion about religion. Besides, most of the so called "Christians" that I know are also the biggest hypocrites that I know. My friends who profess no religion are better people and do more good for others than my "Christian" friends. One does not have to have a religion in order to raise good, law-abiding adults. One merely has to have a solid set of moral values to pass along to one's children, and religion is not a prerequisite to having good moral values. You are nothing more than another "Christian" bigot.

NoToufo...It isn't about God. Not when poverty is the thread that creates the seam of child abuse. Having worked for 2 years with abused women and children, I can tell you that even when the woman is removed from the home with the children, he still comes after her. To him, she's not a human being so much as a "possession" no one has the right to take from him. Anything more immature than that attitude I can't imagine.

Not all men who grow them are mature enough to have them.

THANK YOU StephAce!!!!! True, sad but true.

"I bet their christian beliefs kept these to from visiting an abortion clinic." OR maybe even these scumbags know that abortion is wrong.

Unless you've adopted you've done nothing... Give it a rest.

I'll bet there are many responsible parents that would love to have either of those children.

that child is going to be placed in a home where most likely nobody will adopt him

As I understand it, the main reason kids don't get adopted is that the state will do everything possible to keep parent and child together, even when mom is a loser like the one here.

The state will do all it can to place the baby with relatives, so that it continues to have its "family." And there is always some granny who's on practically on her deathbed who will insist that the "family will raise this child."

And so the kid gets bounced around (happens in all race, all levels of class), until finally granny dies, and the relatives disappear and the state takes and puts the now 10 year old kid and siblings up for adoption, insisting that they all have to be adopted together, but the adoptive parents still have to nurture the ties to the neighbor that lived next door, who always brought cookies on their birthdays.

The exception is in South Dakota, where, if you're Native American, the state makes more money if it takes the kids out of the home at first blink of trouble, and put said kids in a foster or a group home, away from the family.

What I find amusing is that the men who abandon children in droves for generations are the same loud voices who are anti-abortion. Is the real reason that no man wants his seed destroyed? I mean...after all...how dare anyone destroy anything that's his right?

@Edna a baby at 8 weeks has a heartbeat just like a baby at 8 months so I am missing your point! Wait do you even have a point?

I'm not sure why you feel the need to act like an ass. Your ignorance might not allow you to understand my point. A baby at eight weeks can't live outside the womb. A baby at eight months can. I wasn't saying I agreed with abortion.

Me, too. I'm a grandma, but I've got some mileage left on me. I'll take any kids that are in this situation. I may need to share a few with other grandmas, but there's a bunch of us around who actually enjoy children.

the system produces these kinds of people, don't blame the human race for failings of this culture

Isn't the "system" comprised of those dreaded human beings? People need to be held accountable instead of pointing the finger at the government as the cause of their problems and inadequacies. People like this are the product of laziness and moral bankruptcy.

You used to need a license to have kids. It was called a marriage license.

Elk

Stupidest post of the day. There's an incredible # of cultures who DON'T use marriage licenses, and they're having babies. Even in our culture, babies were had out-of-wedlock as soon as the pilgrims stepped on shore. And what about the Cro-Magnons and Neandertals? Oh, I forgot---you believe the earth is only 6000 yo.

So? I do, so there we are.

@Richard...I'm simply making a point to those who think you need to believe in God to be a good parent. I am a good parent and a good person who doesn't believe in God. And I think it's lovely that you do. Take care and have a good weekend.

She was as much at fault as the boyfriend. She allowed it.

Ron-795690 She only knows what she has been taught... It is everyone's fault.. As a society we find it easier to turn our heads when this happens... How would you follow through with this situation????

By not turning my back if I knew about the situation. If someone knows something and does nothing, they are just as guilty.

@Ron: Agreed. However, I think the point that georgeann was getting at was that we have to acknowledge that these things become a vicious cycle. That woman's children, if no prevention had occurred, would be statistically extremely likely to treat their children the same or get in abusive relationships, starting it all over again. Then we would be making the same comments about them. That tiny toddler that we have empathized with now would become the object of our anger. We are just bandaging the problem... something more has to be done or it will never end. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, no doubt about it, however society needs to be held responsible as well. We're here on this planet cheek-by-jowl, whether we like it or not, and if society turns a blind eye or only does the bare minimum (think Penn State), then as a whole we are guilty as well. This kind of story should inspire everyone who reads it to either donate to a cause for the abused, or find ways they can help out in their community. Reading the story and then going back to our daily lives with a sigh of "it's so sad, but not my problem" is short-sighted and guilty by association on a societal scale. Which means they are the most dangerous as they will allow problems like this to continue because they don't' see where they have to get involved. I'm not necessarily talking about this woman in particular, unless of course, one of you on here lived next door and then I would hold you responsible to call the police. I'm speaking about being active in our communities and in our government: we have to learn from this situation! I always wonder if people who scream in favor of the death penalty are actually involved in helping to prevent the need for it (as much as possible) in the first place.

I know it's a cycle, but sometime the victim needs to get past the "it's not my fault, I was abused" and say "help, I was abused and want to end the cycle".

Georgeann : I feel sorry for anyone who was sexually or physically abused as a child; however, this is no excuse to treat your children the same. Once a person becomes an adult they know the difference between right and wrong & should be held accountable. Regardless of how bad a person was raised they should not inflict that suffering on their children (why would they want someone else to go through the horrible suffering they have endured ? ) Even if her spouse was abusive to her, that is no excuse to allow it to happen to her children. A parent should protect their children at any cost.

Amen Jeffery.

Ron...I'm sure there are many men who'd rather not admit to autocratic bullying fathers. That WAS fathering up to the 1960s when women had enough and decided to go it on their own. Many fathers before that were not really fathers so much as breadwinners who came home at the end of a day and read the newspapers while they waited to be served din din.

Sorry, but many were not fathers so much as commandants. That in those days was the role men all bought and paid for. Homes were nothing more than Big Daddy's dictatorship.

Unless you have been there, you have no idea how disfunction follows generation after generation... Our school system should be trained to see this in children and report it. The offending person needs to own up to their disfunction and seek mental health.. Once the person becomes an adult they use their childhood coping skills as adults. It is a vicious circle and it has to stop at one point... I feel a person is who they were raised to be... One only knows what one is taught as a child..

Georgeann, not many people have empathy...sad as it is. This woman and man are products of their parents and their parents and so on...but people are quick to point the finger without thinking about that. Bless you, you obviously have some empathy and there aren't many around anymore...at least on this site.

Canada and the U.S. were doing eugenics to people who hadn't had children, and who were often children themselves.

These two adults have proven that they should not have any more children. And I wouldn't stop with snipping, but go with sterilization.

I am all for gay rights but this isn't the time or the place. I am coming to understand why people are getting sick of the subject coming up in everything from clothing ads to stories of child abuse, it's enough. You are not helping your cause one iota and, in fact, are causing some supporters to turn away from the subject in absolute disgust.

This is very much the time and the place and I'll explain why. The justification to ban gay people from marrying and from adopting children has been the age old "children need a man and a woman" to raise them properly.

And here we have a man and a woman who, it appears, intended to starve this child to death. Do you think they were pulling the nails out every night? No. The intent by this man and woman, the supposed epitome of what is needed to raise a healthy child, had decided to kill a toddler.

By all accounts of child abuse, there's usually a mother and father figure, married or not. So, by all accounts the conclusion should be that heterosexuals are unfit parents. Of course we know that's not the case. It would be a sweeping generalization and considered insane to suggest such a thing. But it's considered reasonable to ban gay Americans from adopting in many states.

I think you'd be hard put to find a story of children being abused by gay parents. Mil7887's comment is very relevant in light of the number of people still trying to deny gay people the opportunity to adopt and raise children.

Well, Radagast, if they are "butt-reaming" they aren't going to father any offspring you know.

James...I sooo agree. A woman her age doesn't need a boyfriend. She needs a job to take care of her family and to get her priorties straight. Boyfriend is for a 16 year old not a woman with kids. But you can bet Mr. Boyfriend has lots of money he gets from heaven knows where and he doles it out to her when and if she meets his expectations.

Please do not disrespect trailer trash by comparing them to these "parents."

Sometimes all people can afford are trailers. What a horrible piece of trash you are raleigh dolly and how dare you. You might think different someday if that is all you can afford to live in. Not all people that live in trailers are trash. I know some pretty wealthy people (many politicians) that are total trash. Think before you speak. You make yourself sound stupid and hateful.

Please do not disrespect cats by comparing them to these "parents."

zapper is right.Leave cats out of this.It's an insult to felines.

Your statement makes no sense. In most mammal species the females are adapted to be good mothers.