Five arrested after deadline passes for Occupy LA

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa says he is empathetic to Occupy LA protesters and urges them to take alternatives to protesting on the lawn of City Hall.

 

 

Update at 8:55a.m. ET:  NBC affiliate KNBC reported that at least five protesters were arrested early Monday after the 12:01 a.m. deadline imposed by city officials for Occupy Los Angeles to leave its tent-city passed.

Police Commander Smith said the encampment would be allowed to stay put until at least daybreak, according to Reuters, but he said protesters who block traffic had to move or face arrest.

"We have no plan at this time to go into the park and evict people," Smith said. "That could change in the near future, but right now we are hoping to clear the streets, and that'll be the end and people can relax for a little while."

Officers set up a perimeter around 1st and Main Streets as they started clearing the streets of protesters.

"Monday is a big traffic day, and there are thousands and thousands of workers who are trying to get to their jobs down here, so we really need to have these streets open," said Smith.

Update at 8:40a.m. ET: Police arrested three people early Monday after ordering Occupy Los Angeles protesters to leave a downtown intersection hours after a deadline passed to vacate a City Hall park encampment.

Water bottles were thrown at officers as officers in riot gear started clearing 1st and Main streets just after 5 a.m. PT Monday, the Associated Press reported.

The police department has been on tactical alert, meaning the late night watch was held over, since midnight.

At 4:50 a.m., police on loudspeakers declared an unlawful assembly and protesters were told to get out of the street within five minutes.

Commanders corralled demonstrators back to the City Hall park, telling them they won't be arrested there.

Earlier, a celebratory atmosphere filled the night outside City Hall and the encampment near it: a group of protesters on bicycles circled the block, one of them in a cow suit, while organizers led chants with a bull horn.

"The best way to keep a non-violent movement non-violent is to throw a party, and keep it festive and atmospheric," said Brian Masterson.

Shortly after the 12:01 a.m. PT Monday deadline, there was only a small police presence, about two dozen motorcycle officers who remained across the street from the camp.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said earlier that the grounds would be closed after the deadline, while Police Chief Charlie Beck promised that arrests would eventually be made if protesters did not comply.

Villaraigosa said police and social workers will walk through the park handing out information on the closure and services available, and expressed hope it would happen in a "spirit of cooperation."

But many including the protest's chief organizers said they had no intention of cooperating, and only a handful of campers cleared out over the weekend.

Scott Shuster was one of those breaking down his camp, but he said it was only to protect his property and he planned to remain.

"I just don't want to lose my tent," he said.

Updated at 11:56 p.m. ET: Earlier, in Pennsylvania, a deadline set by the city for Occupy Philadelphia to leave the plaza it has occupied for some two months came and went without scuffles and arrests as police watched nearly 50 demonstrators lock arms and sit at the entrance of Dilworth Plaza.

The scene was far different from other, previous encampments in cities elsewhere where pepper spray, tear gas and police action resulted in the decampment of long-situated demonstrators, but Occupy Philadelphia has managed to avoid the mass arrests and conflict that has arisen at other sites nationwide.

Sunday night, there was hope that Philadelphia would continue to be largely violence-free.

"Right now, we have a peaceful demonstration," said Philadelphia Police Chief Inspector Joe Sullivan, nearly 45 minutes after the 5 p.m. deadline. By 11 p.m., the crowd had thinned a bit, but the calm remained.

Along the steps leading into a plaza, about 50 people sat in lines with the promise that they would not leave unless they were carried out by authorities. For a time, they linked arms. But as it seemed that a forceful ouster was not imminent, they relaxed a bit. A police presence was heavier than usual but no orders to leave had been issued.

A few dozen tents remained scattered on the plaza, along with trash, piles of dirty blankets and numerous signs reading, "You can't evict an idea."

Several hundred supporters surrounded those who were prepared to face arrest for one of the Occupy movement meetings known as a general assembly.

"There are some shelters that some of us are going to go to, some of us are going to end up on the street, some of us are going to be able to find a family member to take us in and others might go to jail," a protester told NBC Philadelphia.

"We can definitely claim a victory," said Mike Yaroschuk, who was in the process of dismantling his tent. "We've opened a lot of minds, hearts and eyes."

Yaroschuk said he was leaving the plaza not because of the city-issued deadline but because of a request by unions whose workers will be involved in the long-planned construction project there in the coming weeks. He said it made more sense to pick and choose when it comes to Occupy and its efforts to draw attention to the 99 percent.

"This place is not a key battle for me ... This is a marathon, not a sprint," he said.

Diane Ackerman, a member of the group's legal collective, said the movement itself will remain strong regardless of what happens. Occupy Philadelphia has been largely peaceful since it began. Despite a few dozen arrests, there have been no violent confrontations with police.

Philadelphia's eviction notice is unique in that protesters are being asked to move to make way for a construction project.

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From the Washington Post:

New York University economist Edward Wolff has done the best work I’ve seen on the contribution of inheritance to wealth inequality, and his latest paper, coauthored with the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Maury Gittleman, is chock full of relevant data on the matter. In 2007, the last year Wolff and Gittleman look at, wealth transfers (mainly inheritances, but also including gifts) made up, on average, 14.7 percent of the total wealth of the 1 percent (more specifically, the top 1 percent in terms of wealth). Interestingly, inheritance’s share has declined over time. In 1992, 27 percent of the wealth of the top 1 percent came from wealth transfers.

Wolff and Gittleman also find that because wealth transfers generally make up a bigger portion of the wealth of poor and middle-class people, they actually reduce wealth inequality, in aggregate. “Our simulations show that eliminating inheritances either in full or in part actually increases overall wealth inequality and, in particular, sharply reduces the share of the bottom 40 percent of the wealth distribution,” they write. So while there’s no doubting that the rich are inheriting a lot of money — 14.7 percent of the wealth of the top 1 percent isn’t nothing, after all — it remains the case that inheritance does not increase wealth inequality.

    Reply#195 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:55 PM EST

    It would appear there is very good reasoning for all of this. Corrupt system of legal and government spending the American peoples money however they want to. No real voting process anymore. It used to be the people could choose the presidential canidates, but now the rich have that right as well. What I mean by that is the head parties democratic and repulican (rich people) pick the canidates that give them (corporate America) the best benefits and lowest taxes. Mean while the worker that is supposed to see the benefits from this doesnt. Instead corporate American pockets the profits and throws the costs of insurance on their workers now. This allows companies and owners of these companies to become richer. (sad but true) Look at past trends of tax breaks bills passed for most major companies and taxes paid by the same campanies and tell me why their workers havent seen any of these raises, instead they consolidate multiple jobs into one paying one wage expecting the worker to do three jobs. (Thats not right) With jobs going over seas companies arent taxed by that country at all in some cases and they profit 100% but the books show different (no real transparency when dealing with other countries) Again Not right. Yet lower class, Mid-lower class, and middle classes have to pick up the tab for all of this through taxation with no true representation. Again (not what our founding fathers intended) There are a lot of things that arent right about our system right now that truely need to be addressed. Even Warren Buffet agrees that the tax system isnt fair. Why should some one making 9 billion a year (bill gates) pay less than 10% in taxes? The same rate as some one making $10,000-$25,000 a year. If you add up the loss on how much taxes could have been taken from the entire upper classes for the last 60 years that the loop holes have been open. It would have paid the national debt 15 times over again. The lack of leadership is one of the major issues. Not to say anything bad about our commander and chief. I love and respect the man but not the decisions. he is the negotiator for overseas trading which we have taken a deficet (even from american owned companies overseas). When i was a boy a we would walk away from a bad deal and look for another buyer not take the loss and lose money. simple thought. Congress should stop voting on raises for themselves when they arent doing their job to begin with. They are public servant in the attempt to represent the public not the be entitled to do as they please. The legal system is flawed by corruption and the highest bidder as well now a days. Sad but true, if you have enough money you can get away with murder. (OJ simpson). I have plenty more to say. trust me I can back all of this up. Simple economics is what is produced here and sold elsewhere makes us money. Quick question to whom ever....What do we produce anymore and why? Simlple answer its cheaper for coporations to move companies to other countries to avoid paying benefits and lower wages but gettinr higher production So the owners get richer and pay less taxes yet again corporate america wins and american public loses. There are a lot more issues that also need to be discussed on how the freedoms of the american public are being stripped away one by one to suit the needs of corporate america. Freedom of speech and the right to persue happiness.
    why is a worker not allowed to have rights? Right to work states and Work at will states that the employer can fire just cause they feel like it and without justifiable causes. I will write more later. Please respond if you feel like it.......have a good day

    I did serve this country in the army honorably, I rang door bells to make a living as a kid and as well I also have a college education that I still pay for. Even with no jobs I try to better myself and contribute to society in a positive effort to make a good difference. I believe mygirl I have that education as well as the experience as a former soldier and current management of major manufacturing firm to back my statements.

    "Then there is the side effect of creating a cradle-to-grave welfare state, wherein it is better to stay on welfare because the benefits are far better than getting a low paying job. Say you need an education to get that better job? So, when everyone has a college degree, what distinguishes them from each other? Once upon a time it was a HS diploma, now you must have a college degree...

    Note that while all the venom and ire are focused on corporate America, not one passing glance is made at the rules, regulations and taxes that corporate America battles to hope to make a profit. Nor is any attention paid to exactly Why there is corporate cronyism. Does influence peddling happen because the legislators who make the laws can be bought and exempt certain companies just like they exempt themselves from having to follow the laws? (MYGIRL1 )"

    These laws that you speak of are lobbied by corporations to be changed for corporate benefit as well as no one can really contest corporations due to the liquidity and assets backing them.
    It would take a collective of an entire city to fight with a Walmart but yet a walmart still can plant a super center anywhere as they please. A city council can say no, but (then it brings in the question as to) why when the entire community has voted against it. Yet it is build and running anyway. ----simple answer (we the people are no longer represented the way we used to be)

    I can bring proof of profits in almost every aspect to this board to show how corporations make a profit reguardless of manufacturing. Companies have a treasuries usually that handles stock bought back and investment profiles for the companies---(foreign and domestic)--still making profits off less risky investment practices. This doesnt have to be shown as a portion of the companies earned income due to it being unrealised earned income. other conglomerate companies feed eash other through the hard times to consolidate and move multi laterally enabling them to gain more market share and sqeeze ma and pop operations out of existence. This enables them to become ogilopolies and raise their prices to what ever they please. So please dont dismay my words as vemon towards corporate America. I am merely stating facts on how the system in built around and caters to corporations--(ie rich owners and NOT their workers anymore)

    This cradle to grave - ideology that you speak of I do not agree with the welfare system at all. It was set-up by the government in an attempt to satisfy the needy but so many loop holes were left open for people to abuse the system. This is a sad case of bad legislation, policy, and poorly planned system all together. In case you are wondering my backround and knowlege of these things (MBA) should be good enough for an answer. As well as many of studies in systems through operations management. This system needs to be torn down and rebuilt with a time limit attached for those that are just trying to get over on the system. Others that really need the system should be evaluated on a case by case basis. The fact that there are people out there popping out kids just to have a free place to live and free food, and free everything is sickining. What about the quality of life for the child these are things not considered by the young one popping out the children and ergo become our problem and society has to deal with the kids that turn out bad. I give a pat on the back for the ones that make something of themselves in that environment. It would be hard to turn away from everything that is free to make a living for yourself. (laziness)

    The youth of america today have an entirely different perspective than that of the older generations I agree but to what extent are they right on how the system is wrong and to what extent are they right for saying what they believe. After all they are excercising their rights as are we to speak at this very moment. I do believe there has to be a way to fix things but it would have to be a program by program basis. The wars fought and this is coming from a vet mind you......One is justified while the other is not. Afghanistan is a justifiable war we were attacked and forced into it. Iraq on the other hand was not an attack and not justifiable. Every country is capable of their own civil war (LIBBIA EXAMPLE). Though we may throw out there democracy is a better way (possibly but we have our own problems as well) That doesnt justify invading and tearing a government out of power so there leader can be executed. They could have done that on their own. It just takes a group of people to band together with the right motivation and cause to start a revolution. It still takes their new or old leaders time to find the right way and direction to take their country.

    Our own country is plaged by: Homeless, hungery, tired, poor, emotionally distrubed, health crisis, national disaster (hurricanes, Floods, earthquakes, landslides, wild fires, and numerous more.) At what point is it fair for the american people to pay for other countries problems when we need to fix our own first and foremost. The system is broken and needsd to be fixed. When you have company owners that make billions and pay only 10% tax (if that), while the rest of us pick up the tab for everything. That is just wrong.

    I maynot totally agree with the method in which people protest or why they are protesting. Its their right to do so. I agree there are lots of things that neeed to be looked at and fixed. Look at the tax system, Corporation power and authority in comparison to the communities that reside there, look at current political system, look at abroad taxation on corporations, Learn Economics for those that dont understand it, Jobs leaving country helps the country where the jobs are going i.e. NAFTA free american trade agreement, and numerous other aspects. It used to be 20,000 pecos to an american dollar after NAFTA its now 10 pecos to an american dollar. What is the difference you ask? Well, when you open companies in other countries and you pay their workers they spend that money in their country making their economy stronger and ours weaker. That money leaves our economy and goes to theirs and usually stays there. All economies are based on that same system. bring money into your country GOOD send money out of it BAD!!! simple but yet we import more than we export every year for many many many of years now. this is an example of poor decision making in leadership (government, private, and publc sectors) After all they are in the same boat for economic purposes. We the people fuel this economy only for compaines to send jobs and money to other economies (NOT GOOD) there should be a way to have a say in these things for the American people. (oh wait there is Corrupt Politicians )

    So Those that think people are just being lazy continue to have the wool pulled over your eyes. A small percentage of those protesters are welfare people yes, but majority are laid off employees. These are the angry people because their jobs were moved overseas and job creation has been a running joke for the last 3 years.......Seriously think about it. How mad would you be to lose your assests (house, cars, and retirement) due to a company and politicians screwing our economy further and helping someone elses economy. Probably pretty mad, but since it hasnt happened to you. you dont care. Put yourselves in their shoes for a change and think about the ones out there that lost their jobs and homes that are trying to speak out.

    Look up last interview with Warren buffet and tax spreads that he brought to the table proving that the top twenty percent didnt pay what you are claiming. simple math 500 million people US and out of that 20% pay supposed 45% taxed According to law not including all the tax breaks. top 20% as you claim them are 100million people paying 45% which equates to little when you consider 400 million people paying 40%-10% majority of that is in the 30% range. so you do the math 400million paying 30%-40% tax campared to 100million paying a capped 45% on taxes I bet i know which payes more...........

    Obama did inherit a mess but its also a team effort. Congress and house of rep are supposed to work with the president to represent the people for the people. This isnt good policy that they wage wars on eash other and accomplish nothing. Bush did tear up the economy with the help of congressional backing. I do understand full and well washington politics. Politics is politics as the pure definition tactical movement in the pursuit of gaining power. Trying to please everyone is impossible, but as a nation we are failing financially and as a government. The tax system needs to be revamped. Welfare needs to be fixed. Social security is almost gone. Medicare is slowly being stripped to nothing.

    You have to ask the question "what is the ROOT cause of this"? Why is this happening? What are the contributing factors the are underling this problem and How do we fix it? Is there real representation that can fix this? What do we (as the American people have to sacrifice in order to acheive a solution? Is this going to make a dark age in the US history for a while while we are fixing it? This wealth of words is part of the problem.....It surely doesnt say nothing. Only if you dont read and understand the complexity of the situation as a whole. Then it says nothing. Try reading it as the problems that are plauging the US now and what all needs to be fixed. To do this and lower the National debt will take some serious political manuevers and sacrifices. The super budget commitee should have been given the power to over rule all. They should have had an independant group go in and cut all wasteful spending and say to them deal with it. As well as cut the pay of those congress members that made things this way to begin with.

    This is a joint effort amongst all three branches legislative, executive and the other. This isnt a one sided deal. If one failed they all fail. simple as that. I can give very adimant examples of this. They are supposed to work together for us not themselves and profit from what they do. Warren Buffet has given numerous speeches and numerous pieces of proof to show rich and corporations do not pay their share on taxes (missing revenue that helps keep our national debt down). There are numerous problems that need to be addressed and figured out. Threatening government shutdowns only hurts employees, soldiers, and the people as a whole. Due to not working together to solve a problem.

    I dont blame Obama but I don blame the Leadership as a whole for this mess. I just want to clear that up right now. i feel bad for Obama taking the brunt of all the failures before him. Although Obama really needs to evalute the economy as a whole and look where the lost revenue is and collect it. As well as bring the jobs back to the US. The reason we could work our way out of the great depression is because we were a manufacturing country. We produced our way back to the top. Now we have almost a non-exsistant manufacturing and we import more than we export. (import manufactured good from other countries, which can be produced here) Simple Econ and finance if you spend more than you have you are in debt. ECON if you import more than you export you are in serious trouble. There are major changes that need to be done in Private, Public, and Governmental sectors to fix this problem. This isnt just about unfair taxation this is the picture as a whole. NO JOBS = No pay for AMERICAN WORKERS means no spending money in those stores that fuel our economy = Down fall of US ECONOMY (Consumer based economy is more complex than that but that is a short and sweet version.

    As it stands now we are sending jobs to overseas countries and paying their workers and in turn they spend the money in their country. This makes their economy better. At one time Mexico used to be 20,000 pecos to a 1 Dollar. Since the birth of NAFTA its now 10 pecos to 1 Dollar. What is the key change? Companies moved to mexico for cheaper labor and no benefit costs, but in doing so they fueled the mexican economy to be almost as strong as ours. Then things moved to India.
    Then things moved to China, Indonesia, and Philipines. Guess what at some point our economy will not be able to fuel anyothers anymore. We will go belly up and Broke. As we lose our credit ratings cause we spend more than we make it will become increasingly difficult for the US to operate. It takes money to operate a government. If you dont have it what do you think happens? TAXES TAXES TAXES. Since the credit rating was down graded any world bank loans are scrutinized even more and not easily handed to the US government anymore.

    Some where over the years the parties have lost perspective and fight each other so fiercely that they accomplish nothing. Another Four years wasted, if good policies and procedures are put into play as during the clinton ERA we should make a surplus again. Enabling us to dig out of this hole we call the national debt.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#196 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:12 PM EST

    One more thing if you are here to excercise your freedoms to gather and speak your mind, please get organized and have a represenative that will represent you all as a whole. This way the real issues are brought to light and not utter chaos. we dont need anarchy running the streets. organize yourselves and talk to the media and other outlets about what you see is unfair but dont just come with problems think of solutions. If you come with solutions then maybe things can be addressed in a proper manner. Disrupting things and businesses only worsen the problem we need to give solutions and to those who can do something about it. I very much understand the outcome is very meek with the corruption, but with hard work, a lil know how, and good justifacations maybe we the people can take back some of our freedoms lost in this mess. AS well as figure out how to fix this financial mayhem.....

      #196.1 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:37 PM EST

      How can there be a solution when there isn't even a clear message?

      As entertaining as the entire and unclear and unfocused list of "things" on the OWS Christmas wish-list is, it's not nearly as entertaining as the lack of real proposals. People saying "don't foreclose on anymore homes" and "forgive all student loan debts" are never going to be taken seriously, because those aren't real solutions.

      No clear message, and no clear and real solutions.

        #196.2 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST

        That isnt a solution your right but is it fair for those same people havent the trouble to have there home foreclosed on when they as the american people bailed those very banks out that are foreclosing on them, Is it fair for the department of education which is funded by tax payers and banks to force people out on to the street with no out look of a job to pay them back. I dont think so. I also dont think its a good solution that the student and home loans be forgiven either. There has to be a fair way to do this. that whole topic i wrote is a bit of all the problems plauging the US not just one. It paints a picture as a whole but summing it up into a page or two. Corruption (Corporations, Politicians, Legal system, Insurance companies, and etc....) While the middle, lower middle and lower class get left holding the financial bag. The other part of the message is econmics and how we have destroyed ourselves in that sense IE Mexico Pecos example.

          #196.3 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:38 PM EST

          I think the real trick is is going to be a solution that fits all. Since, they are all tied together and are unseperatable.

            #196.4 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:41 PM EST
            Reply

            With millions of people looking at years of no job prospects!, the budget deficit around 1.28 trillion dollars, and that interest growing every hour, something needs to be done that does not take ten years, or two or three years, time is running out something needs to be done now!

            Some might say no more stimulus, but stimulus is what is needed to get the country back on track, and the budget deficit under control! also taxes needs to be raised, namely the Bush tax this needs to be repealed for everyone in order to get things moving, when things are back on track they could reform the tax system, broaden the base, lower corporate taxes, cut spending pay down the debt etc., but right now people need to have income to live.

            one way to do this is to give these unemployed people five or six hundred dollars per week for two years tax free! and take around 28% from the top and give that not to be paid back to all the states as most needed to get state and city workers, teachers, police firemen, city workers etc. working at full capacity, this will create demand in the markets, and stabilise the economy, and with this 28% plus their regular money they take in it will help the jobs markets and small and big business!.

            The 5 or 6 hundred dollars minus 28% would go directly to the 17 or so millions of people who will spend this money to live , stimulating demand in the markets, it will also help lift the real estate markets to this would be around 6 billion dollars per week for two years going into the economy, and it will be as if everyone was working zero unemployment w/o the taxes, allow these people to find jobs and work while they collect this money, and they will pay taxes on the money they earn , this will help the economy, withhold all other assistance from them for three years , and if they need help after that they can apply for it with strict guidelines possible eliminating some waste and fraud.

            The money the gov., and states will pay to help these people with food stamps, housing, and unemployment dollars could be applied to help fund this plan, the bush tax cut when repealed will bring in more than enough to pay for this in the next five years, the federal gov. and the states could cut spending, and eliminate waste much better, with the unemployment problem out of the way for two years, they could easily pay the budget deficit off in that time without derailing the recovery, this would save them billions of dollars n interest that they are paying out on this deficit now.

            If the gov. would start the infrastructure projects that are direly needed as they implement this plan it will create work for these people who want to work, some of them could, go to school, the economy would grow, and become stable, and the legislator's could work on other important things like immigration, trade, etc. I hope someone can see how this plan could help the problem we are having with jobs, deficits, and the recovery;

            One more thing! with all the money that will be going into the economy all business will make more money, the big companies are making record profits now, they can afford the Bush tax cuts being reinstated until the tax system is overhauled!!!

              Reply#197 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:23 PM EST

              give these lawbreakers 20 years hard labor

              yeah baby

                Reply#198 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:19 PM EST

                This is a recipe for disaster and revolutions are born from things like this ie (libbia, USSR, and etc.) Economic failure is a scary situation that everyone needs to take serious. If the next attempt to fix it fails and we go further into the hole, We will lose our credit rating further, there will be no funding to keep essecial programs running (govt, military, healthcare, welfare, and etc...)= federal level. State level folds if the federal level folds. its a house of cards. If the top piece falls so do they all. USSR fell apart due to economic hardships and became CWOIS (The common wealth of independant states). This is serious business Ie... people are already marching in cities all around the US. What is to say these protester wont turn violent or pick up arms. They have nothin to lose----no house, no cars, no jobs, and nothing to provide for their families-----This shouldnt be taken lightly. the rich dont care cause they can afford to run out of the country and take their money with them. They have companies in other countries. So they have secured themselves else where.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#199 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:30 PM EST

                And when everything fails to restore order ladies and gents. Can you say MARSHAL LAW..........

                  Reply#200 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:31 PM EST

                  If you don't want to pay your debts, don't create them.

                  I don't owe anyone, never have.

                  I live on 180 acres with an SS check of $556.00 per month. I have all I need and some of what I want. When I want something more, I work for it.

                  All of my life, I've never had money, and I've never been broke.

                  I guess, if I wanted to drink and do drugs, I'd need a little more.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#201 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:43 PM EST

                  Dont want to scare you but they want to take away SS too!

                    #201.1 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:03 AM EST

                    Yeah willie: Heard that very same story back in the fifties.

                    • 2 votes
                    #201.2 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:25 AM EST
                    Reply

                    Well, Let's hope there won't be another riot in The City of Angels again.

                      Reply#202 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:27 PM EST

                      To all protesters; don't do anything stupid and.....violence in every big cities.

                        Reply#203 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:32 PM EST

                        I pay my student loans religously. You can never default on them.....Makes no sense not to pay them. You borrow money in order to accomplish something, with the stipulation that you pay it back. I never said dont pay your loans nor did i say i wouldnt pay mine. lol I am happy you have 180 acres of land. Good job. Hate to pay your property taxes though. I dont know how you have that much land on ss and not a job though that doesnt quite match up without utilizing the land for ranching or farming. Unless your family owns it, but to the point i was making Economy sucks, Taxes are messed up, No Jobs, No light at the end of the tunnel, and with no solution in sight. What will come of all of this? who knows? I am just pointing out the facts of what is going on around all of us americans. I was a soldier and served honorably for your freedoms, and i dont understand how a vet can be homeless (not me)....While someone popping out kids left and right gets a free place to live, free food, free school, free utiliies, and much more. How is the system not broken explain how the system isnt geared for corporate america and the rich. Or the one popping out kids for a free welfare check. what about the people who work for a living paying all of this crap off with our tax money. How is this remotely a fair system. I have worked since i was a lil boy and still work every day. I am not asking for a hand out. I am asking for the system to be fixed so that people have to work, there are jobs created, people are taxed fairly, and etc... I am sorry you were thinking about alchol and drugs. I am not into that crap. I am a law abiding citizen or a Square!!!!

                          Reply#204 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:36 PM EST

                          I pray for a peaceful resolution to all this chaos and for our system to be fixed. I dont want to see any more violence.....! Make good choices out there, organize and find a solution peacefully.

                            #204.1 - Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:39 PM EST

                            We all want a peaceful resolution james. Thanks for your thoughts.

                              #204.2 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:07 AM EST
                              Reply

                              Hope the "Great American Poop-in" continues. This has been quite a Christmas present for all the Cops. They have reaped all the overtime they want. And of course, the money comes out of the city budget's that also pays for teachers, firemen, mayors, hospitals, and help for the poor and needy. These lice ridden, lazy, druggy. OWS, deserve the help and attention way more than the whacked out teachers and professors that taught them this ideology. It will be good when the teachers and professors get laid off because the cops used up all the city's budgets to protect them, and then they won't even be able to get free food or medical attention because all those programs will be shut down. What an irony. I love it.

                                Reply#205 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:42 AM EST

                                The Federal Reserve and the big banks
                                fought for more than two years to keep details of the largest bailout in U.S.
                                history a secret. Now, the rest of the world can see what it was missing.

                                The Fed didn’t tell anyone which banks
                                were in trouble so deep they required emergency loans of a combined $1.2
                                trillion on Dec. 5, 2008, their single neediest day.

                                Bankers didn’t mention that they took
                                tens of billions of dollars at the same time they were assuring investors their
                                firms were healthy. And no one calculated until now that banks reaped an
                                estimated $13 billion of income by taking advantage of the Fed’s below-market
                                interest rates, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its January issue.

                                Saved by the 2007-2010 bailout,
                                bankers lobbied against government regulations, a job made easier by the Fed,
                                which never disclosed the details of the rescue to lawmakers even as Congress
                                doled out more money and debated new rules aimed at preventing the next
                                collapse.

                                While Fed officials say that almost
                                all the loans were repaid without losses, details that emerge from 29,000 pages
                                of Fed documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act and central bank
                                records of more than 21,000 transactions suggest taxpayers paid a price beyond
                                dollars as the secret funding helped preserve a broken status quo and enabled
                                the biggest banks to grow even bigger.

                                Dwarfed TARP loans

                                The size of the bailout came to light
                                after Bloomberg LP, the parent of Bloomberg News, won a court battle against
                                the Fed and a group of the biggest banks called Clearing House Association LLC.
                                The amount of money the central bank parceled out dwarfed the Treasury
                                Department’s better-known $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

                                Few people were aware of this, partly
                                because bankers didn’t disclose the extent of their borrowing.

                                JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief
                                Executive Officer Jamie Dimon told shareholders in March 2010 that his bank
                                used the Fed’s Term Auction Facility “at the request of the Federal Reserve to
                                help motivate others to use the system.”

                                He didn’t say that the bank’s total
                                TAF borrowings were almost twice its cash holdings or that its peak borrowing
                                of $48 billion came more than a year after the program’s creation.

                                On Nov. 26, 2008, Bank of America’s
                                then-CEO Kenneth Lewis wrote to shareholders that he headed “one of the
                                strongest and most stable major banks in the world.” He didn’t say that Bank of
                                America owed the Fed $86 billion that day. Bank of America’s borrowing peaked
                                at $91.4 billion in February 2009.

                                Spokesmen for JPMorgan and Bank of
                                America declined to comment.

                                Shoring up banks

                                The Fed, headed by Chairman Ben
                                Bernanke, has been lending money to banks since just after its founding in
                                1913. Starting in August 2007, when confidence in banks began to wane, it
                                created a variety of ways to bolster the financial system with cash or easily
                                traded securities.

                                By the end of 2008, the central bank
                                had established or expanded 11 lending facilities catering to financial firms
                                that couldn’t get short-term loans from their usual sources.

                                “Supporting financial-market stability
                                in times of extreme market stress is a core function of central banks,” said
                                William English, director of the Fed’s Division of Monetary Affairs. “Our lending
                                programs served to prevent a collapse of the financial system and to keep
                                credit flowing to American families and businesses.”

                                The central bank initially released
                                lending data in aggregate form only. Who borrowed and how much were kept from
                                public view.

                                The six biggest U.S. banks, which
                                received $160 billion of TARP funds, borrowed as much as $460 billion from the
                                Fed, measured by peak daily debt. Morgan Stanley was the top borrower with a
                                peak of $107 billion on Sept. 29, 2009.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#206 - Thu Dec 1, 2011 12:02 PM EST

                                Continued..

                                That was eight days after then-CEO
                                John Mack said the firm was “in the strongest possible position.” Mark Lake, a
                                spokesman for the bank, declined to comment.

                                With the help of the Fed’s secret
                                loans, America’s largest financial firms got bigger during the crisis. Part of
                                the boost came from a hidden subsidy – the Fed’s below-market interest rates.
                                The subsidy can be estimated using a figure banks call “net interest margin.”

                                It’s the difference between what they
                                earn on loans and investments and their borrowing cost. To calculate how much
                                banks stood to make, Bloomberg multiplied their tax-adjusted net interest
                                margins by their average Fed debt during the time they took emergency loans.

                                The 190 firms for which data were
                                available would have produced income of $13 billion, assuming all of the
                                bailout funds were invested at the margins reported, the data show. Citigroup
                                Inc. would have taken in the most, with $1.8 billion.

                                Assets grew

                                Total assets held by the six biggest
                                U.S. banks increased 39 percent to $9.5 trillion on Sept. 30, 2011, from $6.8
                                trillion on the same day in 2006, according to Fed data

                                The big six – JPMorgan, Bank of
                                America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo & Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan
                                Stanley – took 63 percent of the Fed’s emergency-loan money as measured by peak
                                daily borrowing, the data show.

                                Combined, the six spent $29.4 million
                                on lobbying in 2010, a 33 percent increase from 2006, according to
                                OpenSecrets.org. Lobbying by the American Bankers Association, a trade
                                organization, increased at about the same rate, OpenSecrets.org reported.

                                Lobbyists argued that bigger banks are
                                more stable, better able to serve large companies and more competitive
                                internationally, and breaking them up would cause “long-term damage to the U.S.
                                economy,” according to a November 2009 letter to Congress from the Financial
                                Services Forum, an advocacy group made up of the CEOs of 20 of the largest
                                financial firms.

                                Then-Sen. Ted Kaufman, D-Del.,
                                countered that some banks are so big that their failure could trigger a chain
                                reaction in the financial system.

                                So-called too-big-to-fail banks have
                                an advantage over smaller firms: Their borrowing costs are lower because
                                lenders believe the government won’t let them go under. The perceived safety
                                net creates what economists call moral hazard – the belief that bankers will
                                take greater risks because they’ll enjoy any profits while shifting losses to
                                taxpayers.

                                  Reply#207 - Thu Dec 1, 2011 12:06 PM EST
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