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Christopher Berkey for msnbc.com
Samantha Blanchard works in the Occupy Nashville protest camp on Monday.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Compared to “Occupy” protests on the coasts, the rebel encampment tucked between Tennessee’s War Memorial Plaza and the Statehouse – a few dozen tents adorned with American flags and even a libertarian one – has a decidedly Southern feel.
While protesters in New York, California and elsewhere may often pass their downtime playing drums, meditating or knitting, their Tennessee counterparts could be playing football, hosting a square dance, flying kites, skateboarding or welcoming opponents with cookies.
And if conversations on the coasts tend toward left-wing political theory, such as anarchy, Marxism and socialism, protesters here work on bridging a different divide: uniting the “blue” and “red” factions in their local audience.
"We do have a lot of conservative voices in this camp and the thing that is really appealing to all of us is we believe in the common ties that bind us,” said Samantha Blanchard, a 30-year-old office administrator who was sheltering in a tent as rain poured down on a frosty, grey Sunday afternoon.
“This is a place where if people were really going to come together and form that 'purple' (combination of blue and red political affiliations) that everybody lusts for, it’s going to probably happen in this camp.”
While occupiers in several other cities have been forced to retreat, Nashville’s protest -- a core group of about 90 and a looser support network of 400 part-timers -- has survived two attempted evictions on Oct. 28-29. Fifty-five people were arrested on misdemeanor charges of criminal trespassing that were eventually dismissed, said William P. York II, one of the attorneys who represented them.
Among them was 64-year-old Bill Howell, regional organizer for the Tennesseans for Fair Taxation.
'I've been treated like a rock star'
Howell, who said he had never been arrested before, had planned for the moment, leading other protesters in a reading of the Declaration of Independence before he was taken into custody.
Christopher Berkey for MSNBC
Bill Howell, 64, a regional organizer of Tennesseans for Fair Taxation, at the Occupy Nashville protest camp on Monday, Nov. 28. The "23" tag signifies that he was the 23rd protestor arrested in Nashville.
Reaction to the “Occupy Nashville” protest has been varied, he said, with “some people going by honking and hollering, ‘Get a job!’ and you know all the usual stuff. In my community, in some circles, I’ve been treated like a rock star,” he said chuckling, as a train horn blared in the background.
A preliminary injunction has allowed the camp to remain for now, but a status conference will be held with a federal judge on Feb. 3. However, protesters say “side attacks” have continued, with city inspectors warning about food preparation safety standards and the state attempting to deny them port-a-potties, which was revealed in emails obtained under Tennessee's open records law, said another one of the Occupy Nashville attorneys, William W. Hunt III.
But efforts to squelch the movement only served to fire up “couch occupiers,” said Jason Steen, 32, an office administrator.
“We had a good number of people here, but it suddenly turned into a First Amendment issue when Governor (Bill) Haslam started evicting everyone for curfew rights,” he said, estimating that the camp size has more than doubled to about 60 tents in the wake of the arrests.
Though Steen has a home, he spends most of his time at the camp and sometimes sleeps there.
“I just feel that strong about it because if we don’t have people down here for when all the legislators are in session and looking out their windows … what kind of impact are we going to have?”
One of those drawn in over First Amendment concerns was Jon Louis, who describes himself as a right-winger with some liberal social tendencies. He said he grew "irritated" as he watched state troopers arrest protesters.
Christopher Berkey for msnbc.com
Samantha Blanchard, Matthew Hamill and Jon Louis spend time in the Occupy Nashville protest camp on Monday.
Louis, who said some on the right have cast him as a “plant” in the movement while friends have taken to calling him a "hippie," noted that he does not agree with all of the views put forward at the camp and that it took him a while learning about it before he joined.
"There’s some like minds here and there’s also, you know, a melting pot of different opinions," he said, noting he was “trying to get to the more right conservative South … mindsets and try to explain it to them, that we aren’t just a bunch of lefties (because) I’m most certainly not a lefty."
Three goals
Despite the range of political beliefs represented in the camp – and Nashville’s reputation as a liberal bastion in the state -- the protesters have winnowed their “goals” down to three, which are printed on a blue index card and handed out to visitors. They are: ending corporate personhood, getting money out of politics and supporting Occupy Wall Street.
“It’s a lot more conservative here so we definitely have to tailor our approach and our message,” said Elli Whiteway, a 21-year-old college student. “… We kind of pride ourselves on being a common denominator movement … that’s been our approach, just trying to be, not exactly centrist, but applicable to both sides of the political spectrum.”
That approach hasn’t won over all conservatives.
The Vanderbilt College Republicans organized a protest at the camp on Nov. 3 – which the occupiers said they welcomed with cookies and open dialogue.
"We wanted to make known that not all the youths are with the movement, as is perceived by many. Their demands will do nothing but add to the burgeoning debt already on our shoulders," Stephen Siao, the group's president, wrote to msnbc.com in an email. "We think the Occupy Nashville movement is misguided -- they should be protesting at the White House, not at the State Capitol or Wall Street. It's this administration's policies that are prolonging this dreadful economy."
He also said that while Occupy Nashville "might have one or two members who claim to be conservative," the "core of conservatism is personal responsibility, and that is completely the opposite of their demands. We don't believe prosperity should be punished."
At a General Assembly meeting on Sunday, the protesters shivered, stamped their feet and huddled together to keep warm in 45-degree temperatures while outlining upcoming protests, addressing financial donations and discussing a planned two-day meeting of all the state’s occupations – about a dozen total from towns and cities – for this weekend.
On the sidelines, Michael Custer, a 47-year-old father of four and self-described rabble-rouser, said that Nashville brings a "unique perspective" to the global movement but also has some additional challenges.
Christopher Berkey for MSNBC
Michael Custer shakes his hands in approval during the General Assembly at the Occupy Nashville protest camp on Monday, Nov. 28.
"We’re the incubation place for Martin Luther King’s nonviolent struggles. This is his test kitchen. … So we have some unique perspective on the nonviolent aspect of these types of struggles,” he said. “The South is generally a lot more laidback and a lot more difficult to motivate. But as you can see … we are out here in the cold and rain so obviously there are quite a few of us that are motivated.”
Custer said he will always be "vocal," but others are not as willing to express their opinions.
“People are terrified of government, they are terrified to the point that they won’t speak out. They’ll tell you what they think behind closed doors,” he said. “I think a lot of that’s held over from the old Klan days where when you spoke out, they came and beat you up, or tried to kill you.”
'Express yourself'
With other camps across the country shut down by authorities in recent weeks or facing the threat of eviction, “it really gives us an opportunity to step in and just become one of the most action-oriented occupations,” said Matt Hamill, 26, a self-described political conservative who works for Radio Free Nashville and hosts a weekly radio show on the movement.
Those actions include even lighter fare, such as a square dancing event with a live band held recently in the plaza.
“(It) really kind of hit home … (that) this is what occupying is about,” Hamill said of the livestream of the event, which garnered positive feedback from supporters around the country. “… You should be allowed to express yourself however you want to and not have to worry about anybody coming in and trying to silence your voice or shut you down.”
Blanchard also noted that people in the chat were saying they needed to see such a lighthearted event, that it was “so cathartic to see a camp having fun.”
“I feel like in a lot of ways … Nashville is starting to become maybe a bit of a tender spot or a hearthstone for other occupiers,” she added. “We’re like the little heartbeat, the little southern hospitality of the movement.”
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Leave a Comment:
Kudos to photographer Christopher Berkey. The lighting and colors in the street scene on the front page -- outstanding!
Cut Govt regulation, and tax cuts for millionaires?? Is there anyone left who still believes that LIE?? Many MANY years ago when I was 16 I got a part time job as a busboy in a restaurant. It paid $1.25 an hour. Not a lavish sum. If that wage had been indexed to inflation it would be $10.50 today. So anyone working for $7.25 (the current minimum wage) are making less than I did as a kid cleaning tables. A living wage with benefits is what created the middle class. Losing these things has destroyed it! Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE!!
Its called supply and demand. When you have a skill that is in demand and there are only a few people that have that skill you can demand a larger salary. However the liberal mindset of progressive schooling where our children are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and the fact that they refuse to close the border to illegals means that there are too many ditch diggers and burger flippers in the supply chain therefore the pay for these laborers will be minimum.
...or you can be corrupt and in bed with the government/big business.
canon, so what happens when your skill can be outsourced to a group of people willing to provide that skill at a third of your rate? Where do you think your highly skilled position will end up?
I'm in the IT industry. I see the laws of supply and demand applied every day. My company has several floors full of indian workers.
Now tell me how we continue to issue H1B worker visas to foreign workers in an era of 9% unemployment?
I don't get it. Occupy is starting to outline goals, yet not only are the opponents saying things that have NOTHING to do with those goals but they also are chatizing them for things that make no sense.
The conservative movement that marched against them had the message of "Not punishing success". How does preventing the rich and powerful from lobbying and influencing our government "punishing success"? Seriously?
For example,
"Go get a job".
There aren't any jobs.
"B-but theres 20,000 jobs I found on this website listing in Georgia!!!"
Yes, but those are for people who are highly qualified. The people incapable of passing an engineering course aren't applicable.
"But they shouldn't of partied!!!"
Personally I never partied in college but I am also incapable of majoring in engineering.
So where are the high school and college undergrads going to get jobs if the only positions available are high end engineer work? What about the people unable to afford going to college at all?
A lot of farmhand jobs opened up because of the exodus of illegals, yet that isn't a long term job. There are no benefits or health care, and there is no promotions. Its not a job you'd work for 10-20 maybe 30 years...
The 3 main problems we have in this country is Big Government, Big business and No Jobs.
Occupy needs to focus on removing the concentrated power in the gov't and businesses and get officials in that will actually work on fiscal policy.
So one thing you are saying Theodore is that the jobs they "want" aren't out there but there are jobs. Gee, you know when I was going to college I worked a job during the week, a different job on weekends, and a different job during the summer. I didn't like ANY of them and none of them were permanent but they did set me up with experience to move on to better jobs down the road. When I first graduated from college I also worked jobs that I didn't like and weren't long term. that's NORMAL!
As for "not punishing success" if you want to take more and more away from those who have done the work and had the good fortune to make a lot of money so that you can then take that money and give it to those you (as a politician) feel should be "given" more, just how is that NOT punishing success? This movement has TARGETED those with a lot of money (the successful) and insist they 1) do not deserve to earn "that" much and 2) they should be forced to give more of those earning up. THAT is punishing success.
As for your other points - Every job requires skills. If you decided to pursue a college education that did not give you a set of skills that are in demand in the market, then whose fault is that? It certainly isn't the fault of the market place.
The Sun of the US empire is setting for what use to be the greatest country on earth, thanks to our mob government and the pigs in the police departments all over the country….. The land of the free is not free any more.... Very sad...
It is the mindset of people such as yourself that has destroyed the US. There was never anything free promised here. Only the opportunity to work hard, better yourself and strive to achieve the American Dream. It is the progressive liberal that have confused the right of the freedom to achieve the dream to right to simply be given it.
double post
Our US government is made of an organized gang of criminals, just wonder when it will turn to anther Libya, citizens should start arming them self’s as per our second amendment rights.
I figured that it would take us conservatives to give this movement direction. Well done.
These have been the core goals since the beginning. If you feel the need to take credit for them then go for it. I assume you support them now?
JTM - Actually is you read the websites for the OWS movement, read their signs, and listen to their interviews these are NOT the core values. These were just some of the things they mention, along with eliminating borders and eliminating all debt which actually were much higher on the list than corporate personhood or money out of politics.
What this group has done is articulate two specific goals (the first group to make it straight forward and simple). What they have not done and which any successful movement needs to do is offer a way to achieve those goals.
The very first day OWS started, back on Sept. 17, I heard they wanted to put an end to corporate personhood and campaign reform. It seems they had some direction right from the beginning. Maybe conservatives are finally listening. Maybe you're the type that won't give a bone to your opposition even if they do have a great idea. Maybe it took a conservative to say it for you to listen.
Disclaimer; I am a conservative but I chose to listen right from the start and just like anything else I eat the meat and spit out the bones.
JJ,
By your logic the Tea Party is nothing but a bunch of racists and morons (they compared Obama to Hitler). I remember seeing the signs and interviews. What's that you say; a few signs and rabble rousers don't define what the Tea Party was about? Hmmm...that's something to think about.
Fox_News, it's okay to take the credit. Welcome to the party!
Something's happening here. I only hope it gains more momentum. We're way overdue for a correction.
JTM - Once again you are making a statement that does not correlate at all with what I said. The tiny fringe that held sign comparing Hitler and Obama at TEA Party events were in fact chastised by the TEA party and the majority of attendees at those events, not embraced as fellow protesters like the communist, socialists, Marxists, and anarchists are at Occupy camps.
Also the MAJORITY of interviews, sign, and websites for the occupy movement reflect a complete lack of singular message, not the tiny fringe. The "spokesmen" for the various groups reflect that as well over and over again. I am not saying the majority reflects the tiny fringe like you are trying to imply but that what you see as a tiny fringe actually IS the majority.
What a piss poor job of reporting and writing. I.e. "conversations on the coasts tend toward left-wing political theory, such as anarchy, Marxism and socialism," is an outright lie. This is just repeating Fox News and the other national media. If you just take the time to search for the truth, these AMERICANS of all ages want an end to the corruption captained by the National Republican Party in league with corporations, lobbyists and billionaires. End the who scam that a $140,000 a year public job in Congress gives you the right to become a millionaire in less than 5 years. And the purpose of being a United States senator or congressman is a tryout or taxpayer-paid training for you to become a lobbyist for a corporation.
But, but, but this is written by MSNBC, a staunch bastion of liberal reporting! Why would they cop some talking point from those evil corporate types at Fox News???
"End the who scam..." Is The Who on tour? Tickets too expensive? More bribery and theft. They should give away tickets as they are/were such a rich successful group. Oh the shame! I will burn my old albums!
MSNBC piss poor reporting? Who would have guessed? lol
gulf - If all that crony capitalism and stuff is about Republicans then explain why the wealthiest districts in the country are represented by Democrats?
If you really think ONE party is responsible for the problems in this country then YOU are actually the problem. BOTH parties are in this up to their dark brown eyeballs. If only one party was responsible then explain why the debt has gone up EVERY year since the end of WWII no matter what party was in charge of which parts of government or what state the economy was in. Explain why government outlays have also gone up every year no matter who was in power or what the economy was doing.
The problem is ALL professional politicians who are more interested in keeping a job than they are in serving their country and BOTH parties are stacked to overflowing with them.
JJMurray, I couldn't agree with you more. This coming from a slightly-left-of-center independent. I'm to the point where I would be willing to support an effort to vote every single incumbent out of office.
"We the people" need to send a message that it is no longer cool to simply shill for your brand of special interest (which in many cases is that same for both parties) while in the process destroying our country.
Some advocate for term limits; we already have that. It's called voting.
JM - Now if we could only get people to vote anti-incumbent every election cycle we could actually impose those term limits.
"the core of conservatism is personal responsibility" said Thadeus and Mindy of the Vanderbilt Republican Club.
Congratulations!!! How patriotic of you.
Why is it patriotic or not? Taking responsibility for your own actions IS a core belief of conservatism.
I have one simple question...Does anyone think that this OWS will make the banks or the government do anything different? Don't give me a slogan from a speech just answer the question. If you say yes please tell me what can be done about people haveing more money then the next person... I work and would love to know how i can make more money then my boss..
They can do two things
Find OWS politicians like how the TP found Tea Party politicians and change congress
OR
Complete Riots and Anarchy
No.
Larry, thanks for inquiring. I my opinion feilding candidates would be a detrimental blow to the movement. We all know which party the candidates would run for and that would alienate an important segment of the "99%." I also don't know if voting in candidates would go very far to change things in Washington. Voting, as I have seen it, serves to pacify the public from practicing real democracy. If we could take a page from popular uprisings, say, in Egypt (while I hope and believe it will never degenerate into such violence) the people pressed their government for change by showing up and protesting not by voting. Protests' in my opinion are the most effect vehicle for change, they go beyond the ballot box, and show how disenchanted the public really is. If all those who scoff and sit on the sidelines, got involved and voiced their concerns about our current situation, I believe we could see the most immediate change possible in Washington. The way to achieve our goals has to, in some ways, circumvent the political machine. We must show up in numbers to force the hand of our political class to do what's best for the majority of Americans.
Obviously...the occupiers from Seattle to Boston..and everywhere in between, aren't accomplishing a damn thing..
So...why waste the time? It just doesn't make sense..if you feel screwed...get even...if you can't get even...just accept it and move on.
No one will give you a handout, or even care why you are protesting...its a lost cause. And you sit there because you feel life owes you...
Occupiers? its laughable at best.
When have they said they feel owed something? They want to end the crony-capitlism that has a stranglehold on our country. Wanting to end something more toxic then socialism is wanting to be owed something?
Or wanting to get a minimum wage low tier job now as a high school student or college undergrad or young person in general so you have work experience and can work towards a better future is wanting to be owed something?
Are you literally defending crony-capitalism and the lack of jobs?
Lets see here...wanting to get a job out of high school and insisting you be given a job out of high school are two different things. When you insist that should be made available to you, THAT is feeling you are "owed" something. That's just covering what you imply they are demanding. If you read their signs, listen to their interviews, and look at their websites there is plenty of things they demand which indicate they feel they are "owed" a lot of things, like freedom from the debts they have run up (just one example).
Now what EXACTLY do you consider to be crony-capitalism. Where does capitalism cross the line to being crony? Is a local government giving a large business a tax break so they build a new factory with 1,000 jobs in that city crony capitalism? Is the federal government giving manufacturing companies a tax break in order to keep their jobs in the US instead of moving them into cheap overseas labor markets crony?
Crony capitalism is where the businesses are able to influence the government. But not all cases of businesses influencing the government ARE crony captialism.
Say that the gov't decides to increase regulations on energy producing businesses, but the businesses would have to let go thousands of employees in order to afford to abide by those regulations. For the businesses and employees to protest and lobby the gov't to NOT do it is simple normal democratic republic America at work.
Now take the Health Care Reform act. Back waay before that bill was passed the bill was extremely different. Basically it had a "kick in later" mechanism. If insurance companies did NOT find a way to increase service quality and decrease costs to consumers (as any good business should) withing a certain period of time, the gov't would begin to provide an alternative health care service that anyone could sign up for. It would of been simple health care provided by tax dollars. And that plan was supported by americans. However, it was lobbied to death. Insurance companies sent their lobbyists to republicans and democrats alike to make the bill as ineffectual and pointless as possible. So what did we get? We got a bill that basically forces everyone to have health care, which increases the amount of customers the companies have, which ends up being good for the companies and not so good for consumers.
If a majority of americans support a bill that but their representatives are lobbied to NOT vote for it. Thats crony capitalism. Same with the bail out. Giving money to failed businesses so they can stay around?
Theodore - The health care reform bill has two problems in your example. First, it wasn't supported by the majority of "people" and it still isn't and second it doesn't deal with the problem, only the symptoms. Not to mention it also is government determining the "desirability" a company must meet in order for it to provide a service or product. That is not the place of the government, that is the place of the free market (which we don't really have today). If insurance companies were allowed to compete nation wide, without government imposed territorial limitations then you might be able to find a better plan offered by a company in SC even if you currently live in ND. Thus people would decide which product is the best and that would force other companies to either match that product or go out of business. Since the government restricts that they essentially established tiny fiefdoms. Insurance companies lobbying to have those restrictions removed or to allow them to produce a product based on the desires of the public is not crony capitalism, it is no different that the example you gave as something that was okay to do and in the best interests of the employer AND employees.
Just a quick note on health care though...Insurance isn't the problem. insurance costs are based on the cost of what is insured, in this case the cost of CARE. If aspirin costs jump from $2 a pill to $200 a pill then the insurance that covers aspirin MUST go up no matter who is paying the bill (private or government). The health care reform bill doesn't address the problem of continually rising costs of CARE and thus it only artificially puts into place a government program that will have the exact same problems the private programs due with one glaring advantage. The government doesn't have to make money and can simply run in the red and either add to the national debt to make up the difference or increase revenue from another source (i.e. taxes). A private company can't do that.
Dear author,
Firstly I enjoyed reading your article, it was refreshing. However this "left-wing political theory, such as anarchy, Marxism and socialism", (politics aside) is paradoxical. Anarchy means no laws, in short less government. Whereas Marxism and socialism involve more governmental control/involvement. Democrats are commonly for more government involvement (pro-larger government); while, Republicans generally are pro-smaller government, a lassie fare kind of approach.
And yet pretty much at ANY large liberal, socialist, or Marxist protest you will find the anarchists there because they identify with those movements. They also know they will not face opposition from those same groups when they join their protests. You do not see them at a conservative protest because they do not identify with the limited government approach and they know they will face opposition from the protesters themselves.
For those of you that want all the protesters to 'get a job'. I assume that you'll be voting for Obama since he apparently fixed the unemployment crisis.
He's pretty well fixed it at around 9% recorded unemployment alright.
That's kind of my point. Yet some on this thread still insists that they get off of their lazy butts and get a job. Which is it; their are plenty of jobs for everyone or there isn't?
JTM - Actually there are more jobs being created than are being lost. Not as many as we need for a "thriving" economy, but there really are jobs out there. The problem in many cases is that they aren't the jobs people "want" or they aren't as good as collecting unemployment and other government assistance.
The young folks at a lot of these protests SHOULD go out and take those jobs which are not "optimum". That's what most college graduates have done for centuries. You have to start somewhere and start building some real world job experience and since you're typically on your own at that point in life, you can afford to take those lower paying jobs as you continue to build skills and search for your next job.
No people I know finished school (high school OR college) and started right off in the job they remained in for the next 30 years.
JJ - You keep focusing on the fringe of the movememt; the ones that want their college debt paid off and the ones that want a great job now and a free ride.
Try focusing on the actual point that the corruption has to end. Try to remember what started this unemployment problem. It wasn't the college kids.
JTM - I am NOT focusing on the "fringe" of this movement. I don't disagree that corruption in politics via money (and not just corporate money by the way) is a bad thing and needs to be reigned in. The problem is that THAT message isn't the only or even the loudest one coming from the people actually involved in the protests. THAT message is the one the media keeps hyping but it doesn't match the REALITY of what the protesters are saying over and over and over again.
What started this unemployment problem was bad government policy and a refusal by some professional politicians to reign in the problems even when they were brought to their attention by regulators. The banks were literally pushed into finding ways to take advantage of these regulations by Fannie and Freddie because if they didn't they were going to take major losses (which eventually happened anyway).
First - Since these folks are getting donations then they should be paying for clean up, sanitation, etc.
Second - Shame on the prosecutors who dropped the charges for people arrested for trespassing. If they broke the law, prosecute them and fine them like you would anyone else.
Third - Enforce all the rules you would if this was any other group of people. If they are cooking and distributing food then hold them to the same standards you would if it was a hot dog cart owner.
Fourth - You right to assembly and free speech end when you start denying the rights of the rest of the people to use public parks, public streets, public sidewalks, etc. and are in fact doing damage TO that public park. You have the right to voice your opinion. There is no right to occupy public or private property.
Nonsense. They are more than welcome to occupy my private property. Just try to make them leave and you'll discover that some liberals are all for gun rights.
JTM - You make my point with your own words. You "welcome" them and as such they can't "occupy" your property because they have your permission to be there. Now imagine a group you disagree with just coming by and starting to set up tents on your front lawn WITHOUT your welcome/permission. Based on what you are trying to say you would keep your guns in the closet and let them do that because they would not be violating your rights, just exercising their First Amendment rights. Would you REALLY agree to let them do that?
And even if you did, again, that is your CHOICE. Does their right to free speech trump your right to say No?
Rebuttal,
When did I ever do such a thing?
PS Taxes are extremely low compared to 40 years ago
PPS Taxes have gone down since Obama took office; tax relief made up 40% of the stimilus package.
Rebuttal53,
If you follow the generally accepted numbers, below is how "the handouts" are divided. Now, tell me which of these groups you would like to screw while we further cut taxes on the top 1%? We can screw the elderly out of their $800/mo (just made that figure up); or we could tell them to go to hell and stop asking for medical care; or we could defund defense and largely screw the troops.
How about we do a little of all of the above AND raise the marginal rate on those who could most afford it from 36% to 39% (which they don't really pay anyway) AND raise the capital gains rate from 15% to 18% (or what investors will all of a sudden stop investing? gimme a break)?
Social Security: 20%
Defense: 20%
Medicare, medicaid, etc: 21%
Safety Net Programs: 14%
Benefits for federal retirees and Vets: 7%
Interest on National Debt: 6%
Scientific/Medical research: 2%
Infrastructure: 3%
Education: 3%
International aid:1%
Other 2%
The whole idea that taxes have gone down since Obama took office is very disingenuous and you all should know it. Just two quick examples. Cigarette taxes jumped 300% which affects about 25% of the ADULT population. Also the tanning bed tax was added. Now exactly what taxes have come down? Oh yeah, we had that one year tax break and right now we have the one year SS tax break which just means the government is making up that lost SS income by taking money from the general fund which is BROKE.
In reality your tax RATES have not gone down one penny. Your sales tax, property tax, and state/local taxes like those have not gone down. So, what you have is these one year gimmicks being offered as lowering taxes while at the same time being preached at that 1) lowering taxes do not stimulate the economy and 2) we need to raise taxes in order to increase revenue.
This bipolar approach makes no sense. If you believe the simplistic argument that lower taxes stimulate and higher taxes suppress then you don't raise taxes anywhere when you are trying to stimulate the economy.
As for JM's comment - I would reduce Medicaid in a heartbeat. I know people on medicaid that have better coverage and pay nothing for it than I get either because I'm a retired vet or through a company plan both of which I pay for. defense can take a reduction as well. Anyone who served in the military knows there is plenty of waste and multiple HQs could go away and commands consolidated which would save a lot of money right there. Safety Net programs? What exactly are those? Are those the programs they put in place after the Welfare reform so that people who had to give up welfare had another program they could glom onto until they could go back onto welfare again and essentially stay on the government dole their entire lives anyway? Yeah, I would cut into those as well because we KNOW there is a huge amount of fraud and waste there. And finally, benefits for federal retirees? Yeah, i would put EVERY federal employee outside the active duty military on a 401K program instead of a guaranteed retirement and that includes every single politicians and member of their staffs as well.
To all the MORONS that yell to these people "Get a job", STOP BEING SO STUPID!!! These people are fighting for you as well. They are voicing and reacting to the greed, inequity, corruption that has been allowed to fester and ruin this country in collusion with corrupted government individuals that allowed it to be legal.
Many of are hard working, have jobs, (despite what some of you say). But we are tired of being rob of our savings etc. And now the freedom of assembly and speech has been compromised.
Republicans before OWS: Where are the jobs Mr. President? Hows that hope and change goin' for ya?
Republicans after OWS: Go get a job you dirty hippies!
So which is it, has the President's policies created jobs for OWS to inhabit, or has he not created jobs and OWS is within their right.
Perhaps we can pass another stimulus so we can train people how to use a caulking gun and seal windows.
The pipeline project would not create 500,000 jobs! That's more propaganda from the oil industry. Most of the jobs created would be temporary. Besides, the pipeline would extract oil from Canada and move it down to the Gulf Coast to be shipped to Europe. Where is the benefit for the U.S? Read the piece in Rolling Stone.
Since when did a magazine started by a bunch of pot smoking hippies become a real news service???
I would go to one of these protest but I have to go to work where I can pay taxes so the entitle group can get their checks this month.
Love and Politics. I am talking about the people that think that the government owns them a living not the people that are Entitled because they work for it. I my self have worked 12 and 16 hours a day many a day and have paid in my part and even worked on weekends.You did notice that I said I have to go to work.
The most important things that are happening in these Movements is that People are Turning off American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, getting off the Couch and finally learning about how the World really operates around them.
Many people are on one major learning curve that has been long over due.
"No one is right if everyone is wrong"...
To all these right wind bozo's, you are the product of right wing media smear and incapable of intelligently addressing what you disagree with. This movement can and has documented their complaints, apparently you are incapable of this. Not long ago, 170 economists signed a statement of support for this movement and others have joined in. Look at the crowds, people of all ages, skilled, unskilled, professionals of all kinds, tradesman, etc. These people are non political and very much know whats been and continues to deteriorate this country because they have educated their selves and are willing to educate anyone interested. Their complaints are documented. For years my family and i couldn't believe what all has been trashing this country, while the elite has been prospering immensely at the people's expense. These people are real hero's for doing what our generations failed to do long ago which has failed the youth of this country now. Educate yourself to whats been going on for a long time instead letting media like fox news lead you what to believe.
Please post a link to some of your documentation. The only things that I have seen are a list of demands that are posted on the OWS website that make them look like a bunch of nuts.
Canon, this section wont post links but you can easily google the economic professionals that can. Also look at Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Lessig's video on money in politics. Theres more and can easily be found.
Their first two points: ending corporate personhood, getting money out of politics; make perfect sense, but I do not understand what supporting Occupy Wall Street means. No one knows what those people really want, and until they can form some kind of collective goal, their movement is meaningless. Drop that point from the goals of Occupy Nashville, and they should have a lot of support from both conservatives and liberals.
Rebuttal,
I assume you mean corporate welfare; that's the main source of handouts I know of.
For all of you who would deny the Coporations the right to political representation remember this. The reason we went to war with England in 1776 was because we were being taxed with no representation in the parliment. So if you want to deny them their rights don't ask for tax money.
While I think that's a great point and I hadn't thought of it that way, should the representation of the corporations outweigh and override the representation of the general population. The corporation has disproportionate representation because our campaign financing system has little regulation and elections are now more about donor money than they are about the issues. If we reformed campaign finance laws to level the playing field I am sure many within the OWS movement would be satisfied. I know I would.
It is a good thing the 98.9999999999% don't think like the OWS people.
Let the people camp out if they want to.
Big deal.
Pull the riot clad police back, bring in some trash bins. How hard can it be?
Then why not let the bums camp where they want also??
How about you pay for the clean up, the extra trash runs, the trash cans, the porta potties, the electricity, etc. out of your own pocket?
Big deal.
How much can it cost?
So, don't worry about the rapes, drugs, stock piling of weapons, blocking business entrances, blocking streets, destruction of public property.
LTC you are a FAH.
Let the police respond after the fact like they always do.
Leave the OWS alone.
I am sure the OWS folks would be happy to help with trash bin rentals.
Why don't they have to pay for permits, insurance like any other group that wants gather someplace? No insurance company would issue a policy to these trashy people. They Should have the same rights as all of us, So they should have to pay for the use of the space and insurance to cover the damages that they will do to the grounds. Not a dime of taxpayer money should be used to clean up after these people.
rebuttal: They have opened the eyes of many people that wore blinders through the Bush years. Can you possibly open yours?
tryreality - blaming one administration or even one party for what has happened economically in this country is a total rejection of reality. Perhaps it is YOUR eyes that need to be opened.
If law abiding, JOB HAVING, RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS camp out after the closing time we are told to leave. Using the constitution that you losers on the left have zero respect for unless it suits your warped view is sickening. I don't yell first amendment when the park closes so I can stay.
If you do not view a corporation as a "person" then how can you sue them as a single entity when they produce a dangerous product? Without that legal view you would have to sue the people in charge, the managers, the supervisors, the designers, the floor workers, the assembly person individually. We have given corporations "personhood" for a very long time simply because it was for the benefit of the PUBLIC to treat them that way. So, if you want to remove personhood from corporations be VERY careful what you wish for.
If you want to limit their "rights" as a single entity, that is a different story.
"Get a Job?" "There are lots of jobs?"
So, the economy is fine? The only problem is that people don't have degrees in engineering? If everyone had engineering degrees, would the unemployment rate be 3%?
Everyone can't be an engineer. Society will always have winners and losers. The teabirthers would let the losers starve. You're making the same mistake that Karl Marx and Ayn Rand made. You're ignoring human nature.
Its not just engineers, its mechanics, welders, plumbers, electricians, machinary operators, doctors, nurses, etc.etc.
The problem with the OWSers is noone wants to hire someone with zero skills or a Liberal arts degree.
Unemployment among college grads is just over 4%.
That makes your statement look stoopid.
Correct, except that foreigners who work for must less and machines that do the work of 20 engineers would soon put even the smartest of us out of work. The corporations, the .01% will sell out the country, make their trillions and leave everyone else to starve, IF the law doesn't protect us.
The problem is, the .01% now make the laws and own Congress and the White House. Somewhere we need to reverse this if America is not to become of third world.
It is so frustrating seeing that 4% unemployment figure for college grads. That number is for ALL college grads, and, of course, a BA meant a lot more for previous generations' success than this one.
The unemployment figures I have seen for RECENT college graduates is closer to 14%.