E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSThe Rockland County elementary school teacher who drew outrage when she reportedly told a classroom of second-graders that Santa didn't exist is apologizing.
The New York Post reports Leatrice Ann Eng, 58, has been calling each of the students' parents to apologize for telling their children Santa Claus wasn't real.
Read the original story on NBC New York
Eng, a teacher at Nanuet's George W. Miller Elementary School, was holding a geography lesson last Tuesday when the 7-year-old students said they knew about the North Pole because that's where Santa resided, LoHud.com reported.
She responded by telling them that Santa did not exist and that Christmas presents were bought by their parents.
School officials didn't immediately respond to questions about the matter, but the incident made national headlines and sparked heated discussion over the teacher's place in breaking a popular childhood fantasy.
"It's sad; she was wrong," Irene Hoffman, a mother of three students at the school, told the New York Post. "The whole thing is being blown out of proportion. I think we should focus on our children's education, and just move on."
Leave a Comment:
See what happens when you mix religion and public education? The teacher should have said nothing about it. It is the roll of the family to conduct religious indoctrination. The school should have no place in it, pro or con.
She may have been wrong in the "spirit" of things, but she should not have to apologize for being accurate.
First they lube you up with santa clause, then they loosen you up with the easter bunny and the tooth fairy, then they stick god up your ass.
Religion? Santa Claus is now religion? This poor women did nothing wrong. If she had told the kids that Mickey Mouse wasn't real, there would've been no uproar. What's the big deal? Kids see Santa Claus in cartoons, in advertisements, at the mall, and every single place the image can be commercialized. No one complains about that. But when a teacher tells school-aged kids that their parents actually give them the Christmas gifts, she has to apologize? Someone should apologize to her. Education should be about teaching kids the truth.
Where in the bible is santy closs? Shouln't read the bible while on medication.Just sayin'.
No kidding, I don't want my kids being spun fantasies by their teachers! They get enough of that garbage from the media, they do not need it from someone who is supposedly an authority figure. Santa isn't really. It is just a fantastic tale spun from the good deeds of one man who lived centuries ago, and now it has been turned into a retail tool of mass sales insanity. She should NOT have to apologize for telling the truth. Period. If they want to go halfway, then let her read the kids the history of St Nicholas, where the legend came from.
If I had children today, I definitely would not send then to a public school. The government intrusion is a headwind too big today. I see national boarding schools in the future where they government can raise the kids and control their minds and maybe let them visit their parents once a month. Sound familiar? That is the direction the US is going and yet many do not see it because they never knew how things once were. I am glad I have my memories when life as a child was so much better.
If any child wishes to know the truth, they need read no further than the posts on this board. They will not like what they read. You are the teacher too.
Santa Clause is most definitely religious in origin. Santa Clause is derived from St. Nicholas, who is an Xtian saint. You all know that right? That being said, what other delusions should this teacher have to apologize for falsifying?
OK J you do know that Santa's real name is Saint Nicholas, and he was an early Christian saint.
Yes. Belief in a mythical being that (a) you speak to; (b) you expect something from; and (c) knows "all" about you, be it Yahweh, Zeus, or Santa, is a religion.
As Adam Carolla said, "Some day we'll all be chicks."
Do you want something you can really believe in? Believe in water. Water has been with you since the dawn of time. Water flows through you at all times. Water flows, it turns invisible as vapor and travels the world. Water collects and freezes, stores itself for a time when it is more needed; thaws when that day comes. And that day has come.
Water is real. Water is eternal. Water is powerful; it finds its own balance. Water can't ever die. Water is the largest percentage of what your body - what all living bodies - moves through itself at all times.
Water doesn't contain your soul: Water is your soul.
From the start my parents said St. Nicholas was a real person who, a long time ago, used to give gifts to children during Christmas and because of him we do certain traditions, like setting out cookies and milk by the fireplace and giving gifts (bought by my parents). Personally I think this is the best way to go about it, teach the truth but still observe the fun traditions.
However, I don't think the teacher should get in trouble for what she did. It's a parent's choice to let their kids believe in a real Santa Claus but they do so knowing that other people don't teach their kids the same thing. Clearly, it can get ugly.
Teach the truth, keep the traditions. =)
This teacher was sorely, SORELY in the wrong. Period. This is a parent's perogative, and only for a brief few years do children have the understanding to know what or whom Santa is and then the knowledge that he isn't real. Those years my children believed? Absolutely magical. And, no... once they knew or started to know this wasn't real, they didn't look at my wife and I as liars, my father and mother as liars.... it was something fun to believe in while it lasted.
Most importantly, Christmass Spirit carried on. But, if some figure of authority such as one of my daughters' teachers took it upon themselves to cross the line of parenting and what we choose to let our children believe in, she'd/he'd be in a world of hurt..... I'd own most everything of hers/his.
Get rid of the PC crap, actually start disciplining kids again, hold them accountable for their actions, don't be afraid of disciplining but LEAVE all else to the parents, pertaining to beliefs. Schools are castrated, referring to being allowed/able to control kids, but have the pseudo cojones to dispell dearly held beliefs. Talk about being the ones that compensate for lack of actions, the passive aggressives......
And Santa Claus is a religious figure how?
The teacher should not be reprimanded at all, nor should she be required to offer apologies. Anyone out there who thinks that promoting untrue fantasies and indoctrinating children with such fantasies is useful, is insane. There is absolutely no reason to lie to your children regarding any issue and some very good reasons to not lie.
Young children have play time so they can fantasize - Fantasy develops creativity which is necessary to develop new technology, invent, design, etc.
Then there are the Scrooges. People that don't seem want children to be happy.
Dont make this about religion because it isn't. In fact, there are probably more secular (non religious) families that believe in Santa than "religious". With that said, any second grade teacher HAS to know that there are probably a good number of kids in her class who still believe there is a Santa Claus and it is NOT her place to unilaterally make that choice for parents. She could have easily sidestepped the issue but she chose not to.
This is one of the biggest issues I have with the "liberal" public education. They take it upon themselves to tell your kids what THEY think they should hear, even in matters where parents should have some input. The public schools make parenting MUCH tougher when they are telling kids to wear condoms when they have sex and you are trying to teach your kids that there are lots of good reasons to wait until they are married to become sexually active. Liberals aren't happy just teaching their own kids. They think it's their role to spread their own "religion" to every family.
Okay. So Santa Claus is connected in our culture with Christmas, and Christmas is one of the most important Christian holidays. I understand how some people could feel that he is a religious symbol.
In today's American culture, however, we do not look at Santa as the medieval bishop who was kind to children -- he is part of the Christmas Machine that generates lots of consumer action toward the end of the year. That part is not religious. It is economic. But Christmas can be looked at as an American holiday, a holiday that involves buying and selling and partying, for sure -- yet also provides a good reason for giving, for getting together with family and friends, for celebration.
Santa Claus is also part of the magic of childhood. Santa is about believing, and hoping, and dreaming; Santa is about wishing and miracles and learning to give and receive. Santa represents brightness and warmth in a dark and cold season. We adults need Santa in our own way as much as children do. That's one reason why we get upset when something like this happens.
In the classroom, children often asked me, "Is Santa real?" When I was a younger teacher, I was uncomfortable with that question. I made it a point not to lie to children, and my answers were vague and probably unsatisfying to the kids. They were unsatisfying to me, for sure.
As an older teacher (and by that time a mom), I could answer with an unqualified "Yes." Santa IS real to the children who believe in him. And what's more, there are few things more real than the spirit of love and giving.
Facts can be misleading (all you have to do is read newsvine to see how different people use the 'facts' to support one line of thinking or another). But the ideas of 'true' and 'real' go way beyond facts. There may not be a guy in a red suit who comes down chimneys. But he stands for some very important and very real qualities in our lives.
1. Santa Claus, a man wearing a red suit giving away toys and gifts to the entire world in one night IS NOT REAL.
2. If your child doesn't know that by second grade or figured that out by then YOU HAVE NOT DONE YOUR JOB AS A PARENT!
You are supposed to learn the truth in a school. If not, why bother? Why is it that parents who take advantage of the gullibility of children get upset when their deception is dispelled in seconds by an educated person?
It's the same reaction far too many Americans give when someone says the climate is being changed by human activity or that some people would like it to be a little harder for a few people to become obscenely rich. This is a culture of blissful ignorance and fairy tales, invisible sky gods and the American Dream TM. Sooner or later we are going to have to get our heads out of our asses and take it to the next level.
Seriously, every single one of you who condemn the teacher needs to get your head examined and realize it's just not all about you and your little feel-good games. The fact this teacher was made to apologize just shows how far we've sunk.
I was more under the impression that she was a liberal who decides that she should be the final factor in how to raise our children. Teach them about sex education at a young age, hand out condoms, give them books about homosexuality, and oh... tell them what they should do with Santa.
The teacher was right, but there are better ways of saying it. The teacher should have pointed out how it can be fun to play make-believe and lets-pretend, and that grown-ups like to play make-believe and lets-pretend, too. Then she could point out that grown-ups play make-believe with their children and pretend to be Santa Claus, and fun to play along. I'm certain a rather large percentage of 2nd graders have already figured it out, and it doesn't hurt to let the rest in on the "lets pretend" secret.
They were SECOND GRADERS!!!
The teacher shouldn't have said anything at all.
If she can't differentiate between very very young children and their love of play and fantasy she needs to ask for a transfer to a middle school.
Maybe it is because I raised 4 children and have Grandchildren that I understand this.
WAY TOO MANY GRINCH'S OUT THERE!!!
Fianchetto -- have you ever thought about metaphor?
Santa is a metaphor. Those invisible sky gods are metaphors. Fairy tales are metaphors.
Metaphors can often convey truths better than facts can.
To be educated, we do need the facts. Climate change is a fact. Economic injustice is a fact. We need to know those things so that we can (hopefully) do something about them.
But we also need the ability to understand and see that truth goes beyond the facts. The reasons why it is important to protect the planet. The reasons why people who own a dozen homes might be required to contribute more in order to help people who don't have a place to live.
Believing in Santa can help children develop that capacity. Listening to fairy tales can provide us with insights into human nature. The invisible sky gods (before we get our hands on them) tend to promote compassion, respect and decent behavior toward our neighbor.
It's not either-or. It's both-and.
that's right. i forget who said it, but there's a quote that goes, all art is a lie that tells the truth...santa's a lie but compassion and goodwill to others is a truth that many of us need, even if only once a year...
Teachers are not paid to lie to their students. Lying to them, regardless of the "spirit" it is done in, does not make it right. You cannot teach your children to tell the truth and then expect everyone else to perpetuate the lies you instill in them. If you want to teach them about giving, teach them to give. If you want to teach them about love, teach them to love. If you want to teach them goodwill, volunteer in underpriviledged communities. Those messages and acts of kindness do not require any symbolism. They can stand on their own.
Teachers are told to lie all the time in the name of being politically correct. I know even math teachers who are frustrated because they are not allowed to teach better methods of math, but there is ACTUALLY a politically correct way to teach that as well. Imagine that.
This whole thing reminds me of the time some liberturd once started teaching little girls what the 'bulg' in a man's pants was all about, because in her mind she had the duty to teach them about sex before the parents decided to do it.
Lex and j70141, do you avoid movies because they are not factual? Do you avoid novels? Just because they are fiction does not mean they are lies. Like myth and metaphor, the best fiction is truth wrapped up in a story.
And yet there are plenty of documentaries and nonfiction out there, representing themselves as factual, that present and/or perpetrate lies.
Parables are metaphors, also. Jesus frequently taught in parables. Would you say he was lying because his parables were not factual?
So the teacher had to apologize for not lying to the students. There is no Santa Clause and the is no God. These are made up people to sell crap to kids during the holidays, and sells God to those that think the intangible man in the sky is one day going to fix all the worlds problems.
What the hell is the god waiting for, and we all know gifts do not come from a Santa Clause or the North pole. Your gifts comes from mommy and daddy or from charitable organizations to help the needy.
So I guess lying to your kids is ok when it comes to religion and religious beliefs. Give me an effen break.
Sorry Kids, dad lost his job 6y mths ago, and no Santa is going to spend a few thousand on you this year either.
We really need to end the charade of Santa bringing gifts and a god that is going to save the people.
When I get sick, doctors heal me along with the med, and when I buy something, I have to pay for it out of my pocket as I did with my kids when they were growing up.
PS, there's no such thing as an Easter Bunny either. Oh well, might as well just get it all out in the open sooner rather than later.
Say "Thank You" Mom and dad for the gifts this season. They are the ones that actually bought the gifts for you, not Santa.
It's time we stopped this nonsense. School is a place for learning, not perpetuating myths. I hate that the teacher has to apologize for telling the truth. This is one of the reasons our schools perform so poorly; schools are there more to force shared myth down our kids' throats than to educate.
So, you're against teaching Intelligent Design? ;-)
I don't think it's a teachers place to make any commentary on the existence of Santa Claus. Imagination is part of being a child and in time they will learn the truth about many things, but what's the hurry?
There was no need for the teacher to say anything.
Silence is golden.
I'm personally not a big fan of the Santa thing, it is an attempt to take God out of Christmas, but a teacher has no right to interfere with traditions held by families.
They are second graders, now if they were in High School..............
Gve that teacher her broom and let her go.When my kids asked about Santa and were old enough to question him, I said Santa was a person who gave gifts to little children because it was a birthday. When they found out Whose birthday it was, they understood the connection. It's healthy for children to make believe. It's not a teacher's place to shatter their world.
and it's so healthy for adults to make believe?
kris kringle was a real guy, btw.
Ok idiot: So while we take away the myths around anything fun for the children let's perpetuate sex education in Kindergarten while we're at it! Make them go to work around that time to pay for their elementary school educations and forced to join the military. Let's just shoe away any semblance of childhood and force them to be adults now. Sheesh!!
and i'm always left wondering why adults can't be forced to be adults sometimes...
Only in America does the truth exact so much bile. You people are pathetic.
I was at a conference with lots of high-powered academics some years ago -- one of them told this great story:
He was talking about myth with another professor, and his five-year-old son was listening to the conversation. The little boy piped up -- "I know what myth is! It is the truth wrapped up in a story!"
Myth is not the same as falsehood. It's not a synonym for a lie. Lies are usually harmful. Myth is helpful as long as it is not taken literally. The story reveals the truth it is wrapped around. Yes, Santa is a myth. No, believing in Santa is not bad for kids. He's the story wrapped around the truths of love, and belonging, and giving.
2 Corinthians 6:15-18
King James Version (KJV)
 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
According to Christian beliefs you cannot make something unholy, holy. Biblical Hebrews and Christians never celebrated their births and Christmas never had anything to do with Christ. No matter how good you try to be this time of the year always bring out the bad in people. Study the bible and argue from there.
Lex you missed the important reference:
Besides who makes Christmas Holy?
Living temple......and not touch the unclean. I think the instruction is clear.
The teacher told the truth, that has points with me!
It is speaking about the human temple.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
We are to keep ourselves clean from sin.
Holydays don't matter.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Schools are not failing because they choose to teach diversity through sharing centuries old traditions from around the world.
Schools are failing because they are impersonal; because they do not have the $$$$ for the 'HIGHLY' qualified educators, CURRENT quality curriculum, and MODERN technology. let alone ENOUGH classroom materials that support state/district demanded assessments that are frequently inaccurately analyzed and utilized.
Schools are failing because they have lost focus with the very people they are meant to service: children.
NOT teaching kids about the many traditions and beliefs (aka, cultures) of our ever shrinking world RAISES THE POTENTIAL FOR BULLYING because bullies are not open minded to things they were never taught (compassion, awareness, and acceptance) and thus are unaccepting to the differences in others. Adults are too busy to teach them these skills 24/7 (which includes the hours outside the school building.)
So if they happen to turn, once a year, to a 'Right Jolly Old Elf' who accepts them as they are (elf-size or taller, skinny or jelly-belly, young or immortal), without fault (even the naughty get gifts, even if it is coal), regardless of economic status and social ranking, and makes this drab old world of ours, so 'hustle and bustle' and focused on feeding the wallets of the rich, a little bit 'Rosy', who can blame them. It is the one time of year the adults stop and listen to them.
And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with making learning F-U-N. School is like work for kids. We lose our kids to boring, impersonal, isolating teaching techniques; just as employers lose good employees for the same reason (lack of interest, purpose, challenge). And it is a known fact, the students who do best are those who enjoy school...(er...the employees who do best are those who love their job).
The story of Santa could be a lesson in and of itself, and for so many reasons, without telling the children there is no such thing!
1. History: There was a real man named Saint Nicholas. What is his story? How has St. Nick changed in appearance and side-kick over time or location? How do you think Clement C. Moore (or Henry Livingston Jr., which ever you prefer) came up with the name "Santa (Saint) Claus (ni-CHOLAS)"--perfect time to discuss how names were changed by immigrants coming to America, no?
2. Geography: Locate on the map where this man lived during his life time. Where is the North Pole? What is the climate like there? What is the ecosystem like? Could a person truly live there? What would they need to survive there?
3. Social Studies: What was life like for people (specifically children and even more specifically girls) at that time? How did people dress at that time? How do other countries remember the kindness of this man to other human beings (regardless of gender, ability, and age)? Which countries don’t believe in Santa, St. Nicholas, or Christmas? What other holidays are observed around the world at this time of year?
4. Science: What animals live in North Pole? Choose one to write a report on (Life cycle, Food Chain, Habitat, etc.). Explore animals that have body parts glowing--Could there really be a reindeer with a nose that glows? (and again, the ecosystem!)
5. Reading: How are the stories of Santa Claus like Tall Tales, Myths and/or Folklore? Share and compare the many stories of St. Nicholas from around the world.
6. Language Arts/Writing: Compare/Contrast St. Nicholas and Santa Claus. Word Study: Where does the word 'Santa' come from?
7. Consumer Science/Economics: Arrange for a virtual tour of some toy manufacturing company to show how toys are really made (machines vs elves) and how they make it to the store shelves (trucks vs sleigh).
8. Math: Could 8 reindeer really pull a sleigh full of toys? What is the weight of all those toys? How tall is a reindeer? What are the measurements of a standard chimney and could a man (Santa) really fit inside it? How long would it take Santa to travel from point A to point B in our time? If Santa can get x amount of bags in his sleigh, would that same number fit in your car—how could you find out? Which would be faster to deliver toys today: plane, train, truck/car, or sleigh?
Hmm...all this and not ONCE did a teacher say: There is “No Such Thing As Santa”.
Kids in 2nd grade are smart. If a peer hasn't already burst the bubble of the magic of the season, it sure isn't the teacher's place to do so.
Some things NEED TO BE LEFT TO THE PARENT, in their time and in their way.
GREAT teachers can take a child's dream, and their wonders of the world around them and show them new things, let them discover things that will expand their knowledge and allow them to make connections on their own or with minimal guidance.
Good teacher's listen to a child's dream, but can’t grasp that this young person is full of so many questions about the world beyond their own door, avoids awkward subjects, and sticks strictly to curriculum that does not take into consideration the individual interests of each child.
Poor teachers don't take time to listen to children's dreams or notice the natural curiosity in young people, don't take time to find where the child's baseline of understanding is, and has no patience to teach the truth through discovery. They blurt out the final answers--destroying more than just dreams.
Let these kids be kids. We all grow up too quickly and become cynical of everything around us. The true magic of the season is them. Not what is under the tree and not who gives it to them.
—SANTA WAS CREATED FOR THOSE WHO STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DREAM.
How about we stop lying to our kids and just tell the truth? I told mine that Santa is anyone that gave them a gift for Christmas. No lies, no trauma, just the truth.
The cult of Santa Claus has created a large part of the commercialization that is destroying Christmas.
Sorry, but the "cult" of Santa was started WAAAY before your Wal-marts opened their doors and ruined everything that used to represent the true meaning of Christmas
I would rather have the "cult of Santa" than the "cults of organized religion." How many millions have been killed in the name of Santa? Is Santa a homophobe. Does Santa murder, rape or molest children?
You don't have to buy stuff to enjoy the spirit of Christmas, you can give your time to feed the poor, help those in need.
The whole Santa thing was a means to take God out of the picture.
JOregon, seriously, Christmas isn't even related to Christianity. Its just an adoption of a Pagan holiday.
God can't be taken out of the picture when he wasnt there to begin with.
JOregon
Mandy's right, though I agree its pretty heartless to be ruining a 2nd grader's cherished fantasy.
Mandy it is in remembrance of Christ.
It is the perfect date because it is through Christ that one goes from being a Pagan to becoming born again.
You are still a Pagan. For YOU there is no God - thus no hope.
Whether there is a God or not, to others, is not for you to decide.
judge not lest ye be judged....pretty sure that's enough to bar you from heaven, sinner.
Mandy and Mike: Since when do you know about everything the rest of us believe? You're both as myopic and sef-absorbed as the so called teacher -- only what you believe is right! The teacher should learn a valuable lesson -- we're living in a pluralistic society and peope of all walks are entitled to their personal ives aand opinions. It's not just about you and your singular beiefs!
@JOregon:
Your personal religious beliefs are just that - personal religious beliefs. While I admire the 1st amendment and the right to speak freely, I have no particular admiration for anyone who feels required to expound their personal religious beliefs publicly. I tend to keep my personal religious beliefs to myself, that way, theoretically anyway, I should be free from assault by zealots with differing beliefs. The problem comes from the zealots, who refuse to accept beliefs other than their own and who want everyone to believe just like them. Personally, I have no desire or need to even attempt to convert anyone from their own personal beliefs. A good rule to follow, I think.
Disgust
My response was to MANDY
Mandy said:
Mandy was the one trying to do the converting.
we're all old enough to have already formed our own opinions. what you did, joregon, was hypocritical. you judged mandy and basically told her she's going to hell, like that even had to be mentioned. we all know what you religious types think already. your version of god says judge not, lest ye be judged, right? you just judged someone. that's on your soul. i'd do alot of praying if i was you.
Joe
I just repeated what she said:
She doesn't believe there is a God. For those that don't believe there is a God there is no hope, no matter what denomination or faith.
god's not gonna forget what you said and how you said it. remember that.
Thats not converting, its a simple fact. Christianity adopted EXISTING religious holidays. Its not a remembrance of christ. It was christians making it easier on populations by taking over the holidays that were already there.
Also, I dont recall anywhere where I said there was not a God. You made that ASSumption yourself. Jehovas Witnesses don't believe in celebrating Christmas, and yet they are Christian.
I'm pretty sure you dont know what being a Pagan is.
No it is Your fact. Your life. Your belief system.
You don't believe there is a God so you think everyone should believe like you do.
It is a Remembrance of Christ it is no where near his birthday.
Here:
Jehovah Witnesses believe in God. My reference wasn't about Christ.
I used to be a Pagan, I used to believe in many Gods, reincarnation, elements, etc.
I agree my usage of Pagan wasn't very good.
My issue with you, is you saying God wasn't there to begin with.
Even the Pagans had God.
Dude, get a clue http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm "It is beyond doubt that Christmas was originally a pagan festival. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin."
Thats not a belief system that Christmas was taken from a Pagan holiday, thats a fact.
Again, I have never said that there was no God. Your statement could easily say that since you think there is a god that you think everyone should agree with you. I have never made a claim on this thread for or against believing in a God. You are really good at making things up though.
Yes, meaning that God was not in the original holiday, he was later inserted into it.
Yup, never did. So you should have no issue :-) Have a nice day sunshine.
Man D
Never said it wasn't originally a Pagan festival - Get A Clue.
I said:
The Pagans AKA "Gentiles" converted from their Pagan beliefs to Christianity.
Just as their Holiday (which they didn't want to give up) became a day to remember Christ.
The Festival became "Born Again".
If that was your meaning it wasn't clear. Your wording gave every indication you didn't believe there ever was a God.
The Fact is God WAS in the picture with Pagans. Christ wasn't in the picture. They believed in God.
Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Wish there was Sunshine today. Kind of gloomy out.
don't worry bout it. your judgmental bad self is gonna be a hella lot more than just sunnier if you don't repent...
Whoa Joe
Who, besides you, is being judgmental?
you are. you're the one who said mandy's got no hope...said she's a pagan and godless, even went so far as to imply she's going to hell. if that's not judgmental, i don't know what it is. just know that besides what god thinks of that, god also sees how your words can influence others to, say, kill pagans one day, since they're godless and have no hope anyway. this kind of thinking can give yourself and others permission to commit sin and atrocities in god's name, i mean, hitler was a christian too...
Joe
You need to keep up if you are going to make accusations.
When Mandy originally posted she gave the impression God didn't exist.
She somewhat cleared that up by saying she meant didn't exist for the Pagan Holiday.
God DID exist for the Pagan Holiday. Pagans believed in God. They just didn't know about Christ.
Once they learned about Christ they converted their festivities over to their new faith.
Their Pagan holiday became a Christian Holiday just as they went from a Pagan belief system to a Christian belief system.
uh-huh...sure...doesn't exactly cover what you said about mandy herself, and everyone can see it for themselves...jeez, christians, huh...
They are a funny lot, aren't they Joe?
I see Christians as more harmful to society than good for it. People like Joregon being proof. (I mean, really... he can't even spell my name right)
Obviously Joe & Mandy what I said about Mandy having no hope was based on the belief she didn't believe in God.
Since God was in the Pagan festival how else was I supposed to take the comment?
Now she has said that she didn't mean God didn't exist. She still hasn't said why she said something so confusing and wrong.
Why would you say I would have no hope if I don't believe in God? No hope for what exactly?
Because really, God aside, I have plenty of hope. I hope my finals go well next week. I hope I have a lovely Christmas break. I hope that people stop forcing their religions down other people's throats. and I hope that people are happy.
Hmm... those are all things I hope for without the influence of a god of any kind. I would say that my life is fairly hopeful. And will be happy with or without trying to satisfy one god or another.
Those that don't believe in God have no eternal hope.
Is that better?
I hope your finals work well for you too. My youngest is also into her finals now.
I also don't like it when people force their religion down others throats. I certainly hope I haven't seemed to do that.
I hope that people realize we all follow a belief system of one sort or another.
Careful JOregon, that sounds like a personal opinion, something which you got mad at me for earlier. You have no proof whatsoever that a lack of belief in God means that someone would have no eternal hope. You also have no proof whatsoever that a belief in God means that you will be eternally saved. Who knows, maybe your God doesn't like you. Maybe He/She/It, whatever, does.
All sorts of people believe in God that will not have eternal life.
However believing in God is critical to eternal life no matter what your religion.
I am more familiar with the bible so I choose to quote the bible.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
But if I don't believe in the bible or eternal life, then it really doesn't matter to me, and in my reality, you also have no hope for eternal life, because there is not one.
So you really don't have hope.
While it doesn't matter to you now it may very well matter in the end.
If I am wrong no big deal. I don't lose anything by believing in God.
If there is a God and I am fortunate enough to be with him then I am blessed. If I am wrong and there is no God I have still been blessed. My life has been filled with great joy.
I lose nothing.
You could lose it all.
you do lose if it all turns out to be wrong. you gave up your humanity in favor of some imaginary being's wishes...
Haha, well I would think that if you are going to believe in god, just because, then that doesn't really count.
I dont lose anything by not following a religion. And again, I have not said that I don't believe in God. My life has also been filled with great joy, and I have been blessed. I lose nothing.
SAY WHAT!
I haven't given up any humanity.
When I was an Atheist I was much more self centered. Survival of the fittest and all.
Joe you are not that stupid. You might want to rethink what you said.
I don't believe just because - eternal life is just a bonus.
It may be I will not get eternal life, if not that is OK. I am happy knowing God is real. I can't control the choices God makes. I can live my life the best that I can for His pleasure.
Religion doesn't save. Religion is the means to get the word out and worship God. Salvation comes from God. By not looking to God you lose the opportunity for eternal life.
Perhaps you might want to rewrite this then.
just saying, you're not that far removed from the religious crazies who burned heretics at the stake, etc. (even promoted slavery as well), because they believed they knew what the divine wanted. you believe you know what the divine wants and so you judge based on that. you say people who don't believe are condemned, so you wouldn't lose any sleep if such people were murdered in the name of god by your own religion...i'm sure if society all of a sudden deteriorated overnight you would be one of the first to burn fags at the stake...that's what i mean by losing your humanity to the "divine"...look at how you behave, so-called christian.
i.e., pat robertson...all up in our faces when haiti had that earthquake, sayin the wrath of god came down on them because of their godless ways and history...please...if it were up to him, nobody would've sent any relief aid...
No I am more in line with John Newton who was a slaver (even was a slave himself for awhile). After he became saved he continued to be a slaver but treated his "cargo" better. After God continued to work on his heart he became one of the driving forces to end slavery.
His life story should be a Hollywood movie, few Christians would see it because to be honest it would need to be an 'R' rated movie at the very least.
Very few people have been murdered in the name of Christ. Those that were, were not killed by true believers.
Pretty Judgmental of you - NOT A CHANCE!
Here is a -->LINK<-- to a former post on the subject you tell me what you think Mr Judgmental.
Pat Robertson is a false prophet. The bible talks about that quite a bit.
The bible warns us that as we get closer to the end of time the Signs and Wonders movement will take over the churches.
That has happened. Speaking in tongues, faith healing, slaying in the spirit (Benny Hinn's trick), visions of Christ in peeling paint, or whatever.
All signs of false teachers and false christs. Totally expected, Pat is part of it.
These are likely to be the ones that Matthew 7 is talking about:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
you know...the bible's a fairy tale written by stone-age people...you should chuck that thing right out the window, there's no reason to use it as a factual account of ANYTHING...
Just your prejudiced, judgmental, bigoted, opinion.
I used to think the same.
There are amazing connections in the bible that would be impossible to accomplish without one mind controlling what was in it.
Many words in the bible have a spiritual meaning water is one of those, Water represents the Gospel.
Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
You don't take water out of a garden to irrigate. As the gospel flows from God out into the world it brings people to God, the garden grows.
Moses struck the Rock and water flowed out:
Numbers 20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
The congregation (spiritually representing believers), and the animals (spiritually representing the unsaved) had their thirst quenched.
Christ was the rock:
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
False teachers are called wells without water:
2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
Living water flows from the bellies of believers:
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
The gospel satisfies our thirst for life.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
There are other examples and other words with similar meanings, but the point is made.
To have this kind of a spiritual level theme spread throughout a book written by several people over hundreds of years speaks of a divine guidance.
Whether you see it or not.
Ahh, but there is a difference.
I can believe in a being more powerful than humans that has possibly at one time or currently had influence over us, without believing in an after life.
please...someone began the bible and people read it over and preached it and added to it, read it again, and added to it, and read it again, and added to it...divine guidance? they were just following a theme, that's what storytellers do...so it was more like a divine muse had a hand in the bible...or don't tell me you believe mormons' and catholics' versions are true too...i mean, divine guidance, right? oh wait, let's not forget the divine's hand in the koran as well...
So you have no hope of an afterlife, glad we agree.
Joe, unless you were there you don't know.
It would have been an amazing conspiracy to use words such as water CONSISTENTLY throughout the bible to represent the gospel. Or using the Stone to represent Christ:
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
In fact that is one of the problems with those other texts, they lack that consistency.
The Mormons claim their book was translated from "Reformed Egyptian".
Another interesting word that has a consistent meaning in the bible is Egypt.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
All throughout the bible, from the beginning to the end, Egypt is used as a picture of this Sin Cursed world. God would not use Egyptian anything, reformed or otherwise, for his Holy Word.
That is only one problem with the Book of Mormon there are many more.
really? amazing? what's the one consistency in our world, throughout all these eons and has factored into our lives hugely? hmm? can't think of it? water and stone...yeah, that's miraculous...nobody would ever think of stone or water in any symbolic way, right? sure...
Trouble paying attention?
In the bible it is.
Every single time water is mentioned in the bible it can be shown to have a secondary meaning - the Gospel.
Sometime count how many time the number '3' appears in relationship to the Crucifixion.
Including praying 3 times in the garden, Peter with 3 denials, 3 Marys, etc.
When you spend time in it, it is amazing what you can learn in the bible. Pretty amazing book from those "stone-age" authors.
You, right now, can see nothing because you are blind. Therefore because you can't see it you figure it must not be real.
Pretty closed minded of you.
you're not seeing what i'm saying...i'm saying, OF COURSE WATER AND STONE WOULD HAVE SYMBOLIC MEANING TO US!
In the bibles case they were symbolic of things that hadn't yet happened.
Odd foresight.
and still haven't happened...been raptured lately?
Haven't you heard? Jesus was born over 2,000 years ago. He is the Rock.
You tend to have difficulty staying focused.
Rapture?
No don't have a clue as to when that will happen. We do seem to be close.
*facepalm*
don't bother joe.
see... joregon believes he is better than you.
No Mandy, I don't.
Where did you EVER get that idea?
Santa has nothing to do with religion. I agree that her role (with an 'e') doesn't include discussions about whether Santa is real or not but it has nothing to do with religion.
This idiot has ruined tradition something that kids look forward especially in the middle of a long drawn out school year they get that 1 or 2 weeks to think about Santa. This is their childhood, it does not last long and for this person to take this upon themselves to ruin their innocence really show where their hearts are. Similar to most liberals, they hate themselves and everyone around them. So instead of keeping it to herself she had to act on her hate and ruin their Christmas or at least attempt to. That is why teachers need to be based on their performance just like everyone else in this world. Instead of being protected by an overpaid union. That is why America deserves more choices for our Children. This woman should be fired, if she is willing to do something like this what else does she teach those children.
i know, the nerve of her trying to teach facts in a classroom.
Seriously?? Part of the reason we are in this mess in education is because our children have too many choices. Have you been in an American classroom lately? It looks like NASA in some of them.
Let's think like adults guiding children to be successful teenagers and adults. I mean this Peter Pan business has gotten our kids medicated by five and in therapy by early adulthood because they can't cope with the realities of life.
Choices? We have provided too many, they have become overwhelmed and over indulged.
Should this teacher have broken the news?? No, absolutely not. It wasn't her place. But, will the kids be ok?? Of course they will.
They are second graders - let them have some fun.
Only a total jerk would destroy a young child's fantasy.
What's next? Telling them their Daddy isn't the strongest/smartest/funniest/whatever person around?
I do not think the teacher is an idiot, I applaud her for telling the truth, santa and the easter bunny are two of among many lies that children learn early in their lives.
hey, you forgot to include the lie about god as well in those many lies children learn early in their lives....
Wait NacioS...the Easter Bunny isn't real? crap...how am I going to explain my mid-April sugar addiction now?
Look, if my child comes home crying and upset because of something their teacher told them, you can be damn sure I'm going to demand an explanation as to why they didn't have more sensitivity about something that a class full of kids believes is true. Did the teacher think she was talking to a bunch of middle-schoolers who knew better? She had to have realized that at that age, kids are going to believe in a lot of fanciful things and it wasn't her job to break the truth to them. She should have just said, yes, I've heard where Santa lives, that's very good, Susie, and glossed over it and gotten back on topic. It's not her job to mess emotionally with someone that young who she should know, being a second-grade teacher, is going to adamently believe in something like Santa that their parents have told them. It's not her job to be their parents, it's her job to educate, and yes, of course, while Santa isn't real, and maybe some of them didn't believe, it shouldn't have been up to her to ruin it for the rest of them. So many kids these days are growing up way too fast, and I believe that's why many of them get into drugs and have the problems that they do-why don't we help preserve the sanctity of childhood while we still can and let parents do the job of explaining the some of the truths of life when their children start naturally curiously asking about them?
It's a sad day when Teachers have apologize for telling the truth.
Had to apologize for being a jerk.
They are still very young kids, why not let them have fun.
Being a jerk? She is an authority teacher that the kids depend on to learn things. When they find out that Santa really IS a lie, they'll wonder about everything ELSE they've ever been taught.
oh please, if a child seriously thinks, "I can't trust my parents! What else have I been lied to about?" then it's time for a short chat with the kid about silly childhood fun and jokes. Only the people I know who never got to believe in Santa think that kids all over the world feel lied to and betrayed. Everyone I know enjoyed it and likes the memories.
Cat
Fantasy develops creative minds. It is part of the growth cycle. It is part of the education process. Second grade is too young to destroy fantasy.
Considering the arts are being cut out of more and more schools fantasy is a good thing.
Creativity is necessary for advancement not just entertainment.
I have split views on this issue. I do think the teacher should have had the wisdom to say nothing on the issue of Santa when kids brought it up in class (hey, if it's the reason they've learned a little geography before her class, that's already one small benefit of the Santa story...children are taught many fairy tales for the sake of making important life lessons more memorable). It is a matter for the parents to decide whether they teach their children about Santa, and when.
On the other hand, I think it was an overreaction by the parents. By second-grade, between a combination of older siblings cluing in their younger siblings, children in classrooms with other children who do not celebrate Christmas, and general maturation processes, there are already likely "rumors" that Santa may not be real. Most kids have already figured this out LONG before the parents decide to "break the news," because kids aren't that stupid...they know that as soon as their parents know they have figured out Santa isn't real, those presents from Santa will stop appearing under the tree. So, they may have had their doubts confirmed a year or two early, but is it really THAT harmful? Plenty of kids grow up perfectly happy and healthy in religions that do not celebrate Christmas or believe in Santa.
Whenever the truth is revealed to the kids, that is the time to have a conversation about the spirit of the Santa legend. Teach them about the origin of the story and St. Nikolaos, who really did exist, and the idea of unselfish giving. We celebrated that tradition in my family and I remember that more today than any toy that was left under the tree. It was the small stocking at my grandparents' home that awaited us each year when we returned home from Christmas mass that contained the same small items every year...a few oranges, a few walnuts, and a few coins, along with a new pair of slippers...symbolizing St. Nick's reputation for leaving coins in the shoes of needy children, and providing food for the hungry.
xmas and santa clause belong in the kids, doesn't hurt them 1 bit to believe,,, now the teacher is another story
she should have just went on with her class and ignore the statements made by them, but no she had to ruin their beliefs a-------e ,,,,
What's next, the stork didn't bring you into this world. It was a drunken New Years Eve party that helped bring you into this world. Don't believe me, ask your Mom why you were born in early October.
If anyone is willing to do the research on this, they will find that Santa is real and that he spent his life giving toys to children who lived in an orphanage. Also, just my opinion, but if kids can believe in Santa at a young age, it might make it a whole lot easier to believe in God as they grow up. If you can introduce them to believing in something that they can't see, but they feel his pressence it will become very real to them when they are older and they need God's guidance and counseling and love and joy and peace and hope etc. Merry Christmas all.
"but if kids can believe in Santa at a young age, it might make it a whole lot easier to believe in God as they grow up"
Like I said above, "First they lube you up with santa clause, then they loosen you up with the easter bunny and the tooth fairy, then they stick god up your ass."
"it might make it a whole lot easier to believe in god"
That assumption is ridiculous. By lying to your child about Santa you make him or her MORE likely to believe in god? Not if they have even a modicum of basic intelligence. My Mom told me two things that were too good to be true - God and Santa. But I beileved in them because I trusted her completely. When I found out Santa was a lie my first thought was "I bet god's a lie too". Because that is how a logical mind works. Your statement also implies that a belief in god is an inherently good thing. Frankly, a belief in god is necessary only for the morally weak, as it can motivate them to abide by society's laws. Any other use is as a personal coping mechanism. Necessary, perhaps. But good? Well, I guess it's good like any other anti-anxiety medication.
Vez:
Then maybe you are willing to teach all the kids that the original, "real" Santa Claus was born in Turkey? From Wikipedia:
Would you rather the teacher told the kids that story? But don't worry, there is a plethora of history that points to the Santa Claus myth originating with the pagan god, Odin. I'm sure you'd prefer that the teacher go with that one, right? Maybe you should go back to second grade!
vez
If that's deadpan sarcasm, its good and pretty funny. If its what you really believe, its the stupidest thing I've ever read on Newsvine.
Yes, Virginia, a well-respected newspaper editor will lie like a rug when it comes to popular mythology, rather than risk the ire of those promoting said mythology.
Fact is, promoting myths that are easily disproven can increase doubt about similar religious stories that are not as easily disproven, when the truth comes out.
christmas was about something far different then a fat man in a red suit... please just go rent little house on the praire the name is (our first christmas) please before you call me names and crap... set down with your family and watch this show... it will probable be on television around christmas... please see what christmas should be about..
1. Santa DOES have to do with religion. Look up St. Nicholas. He has nothing to do with Wal-mart or what their price of an LCD TV is right now. I choose to show my children that same spirit of generosity and gift giving as they can't wait to pass along that feeling to others. They are well-rounded and I don't feel in the least guilty for not telling that that it's my husband and me.
2. It is NOT the job of a teacher to refute what parents have chosen to allow their children to embrace as part of their belief system be it Santa, Jesus, or anyone else whom others refutes existence or authenticity. It is also not others' job to refute it be they other parents or children like those represented here. So if you choose to strip your child of the brief moments of joy, innocence and wonder that go with traditions that others cherish, that is your problem...oops..."choice". Congrats on your cynicism. It makes you so much better than the rest of us! I wonder if your children will thank you or choose to allow their children their childhood.
3. She should apologize. She could have gone forward with her lesson without responding. She could have let them draw their own conclusions. Teachers are there to teach their curriculum. Not make decisions about belief systems or make decisions for what their students should believe. They'll get enough of that in college.
Amy, I agree. It is in the best interest of this teacher not to destroy what the parents have told their children about Santa Claus. She is there to teach- reading, writing, spelling, math, science, etc. etc.; not that some of them can do this properly. Morals and Values are what the parents instill in their children; not to be ruined by some Scrooge teacher. For God's sake, let the children be children! They will find out soon enough what a cruel world we live in. Let them just enjoy their childhood beliefs, and something to look forward to; as their isn't much of that for these kids nowadays.
I agree with both of you. It's not a teachers place to tell children things like that, it's the parents.
lol, you two are cute.
Fine. So does this mean that when the teacher leads the pledge, we can now leave out "Under God," since we are not going to tamper with belief systems in the classroom? And we don't even have to argue about the creation myth(s) of various religions, nor do we have to censor Darwin nor substitute the ignorance of creationism? Okay, I'm in.
Actually, we don't have to argue it. If your child doesn't want to say "Under God", I really don't care. That's your business. My belief is mine. Yours is yours. I was presented with all of the creation myths, including Darwin's (it's widely accepted, but admits its own problems; some recent scientists want to alter based on fossil evidence of early primates they have found - really interesting stuff!) and decided which fit for me. I don't happen to subscribe to Creationism, but the fact that people like yourself insist on calling others "ignorant" doesn't further your case. It just makes you look elitist and mean. What happens if someone comes along and sets your belief of science on its ear? Isn't it the job of science to present many theories and continue to work to prove or disprove them?
But I digress, Sherrie. At the end of the day, this teacher didn't present all beliefs. Just hers. And it was wrong.
Let me get this right: The teacher was "presenting her belief" when she told the kids he wasn't real??? So you believe in Santa?
So, Amy, you believe that Santa Claus is real and tied to the Christian Christmas story somehow? And you think it's "elitist" and "mean" to say that it's ignorant to believe (really believe) in the church's version of creation? Did you know that one of the northern native tribes believes that the Great Raven pried open a clam shell and let the first men out? Is it okay if the teacher teaches that to the kids with equal weight as the creation story you espouse? How about including the fact that there is a plethora of evidence that the Santa Claus myth was derived from the Norse legend of Odin from pagan beliefs?
C'mon, Amy, you really don't want the kids to learn all the myths, do you? And by the way, Darwin's evolution is not a myth. I can't believe you would put it in the same category with these others. Or don't you believe in science at all?
I didn't say that Darwin was a myth, simply that there are problems with everyone's theories. More to discover and more to look for. I don't choose to belittle those that don't think the same way. Crawl back in your hole and wait to evolve some more.
Hello? Amy?
OMG! She's definitely coming off of my Christmas list.
Yeah don't @!$%# with the christians and their mythology...they get all pissy when people tell the truth.
It's a sad world when anyone has to apologize for being honest. Really. Enough with this PC crap and walking on egg shells. Plus, school is for education, not encouraging a myth. It's quite alright to talk about Santa, but nothing else religion. And remember Intelligent Design? You can't talk about that either! But you can lie about a guy when who rides a sleigh pulled by reindeer and comes down your chimney. Talk about ass backwards!
Anti-Santa people take it waaay too seriously. It's just a silly thing, a fun thing, a joke for kids to enjoy. It boggles my mind how people want to claim it's trauma and lies. Isn't that a little overboard? I found out Santa wasn't real because his handwriting on the tags matched my parents'. I was in kindergarten and I remember the moment and I laughed! I wasn't scarred for life because my parents "lied" to me. I don't know a single adult who believed in Santa who is traumatized by it or felt they could no longer trust their parents.
And acting like "Oh no, how dare that teacher tell the truth in school! This is what's wrong with our test scores, teachers have to perpetuate lies and myths!". Wow, way to be a bunch of drama queens. It wouldn't have hurt their geography lesson in the slightest for her to simply ignore the Santa comments and continue to show them where the geography was on the map. I don't know any adult who still believes in Santa or whose childhood belief that he lived in the North Pole negatively affected their knowledge of geography.
Replace "Santa" with "Jesus" and you are still correct.
It's all the same, Santa, Easter bunny, Jesus, tooth fairy......it's all the same, just stories to make people feel better about life.
Please do not put Jesus in the same group with the pagan santa, easter bunny and all the rest...He alone prevails...
I'm a jew.....Jesus is exactly the same as Santa. Christian mythology.
lol...we're all pagans, nacio, even if you belong to a religious denomination...religion does not define god to even god himself, if he exists...nobody can even agree on what god wants...love your enemies, right? so why hate on other religions so much? sup with that? you guys are all on the same boat, god-fearing people against the so-called pagans...
Uh, one problem, Angry, Jesus really DID exist. There's enough documentation from several sources that He is real. Whether you agree that he is the son of God or not is your affair, but don't go calling Him a myth when he was a real person.
So was Santa.
Being a real person doesn't mean anything.
Jesus didn't rise from the dead and Santa doesn't slide down chimneys.
catsclaw
Of course Jesus existed---there's at least 3 of 'em in my wildfire company this year alone! ;D
Why are people always being Reprimanded for telling the truth?? Don't parent's tell their children to Alway's tell the truth? Truth-- There is No Santa Claus. Truth-- there is No God. Santa Claus and God are both Fantasies. I hope I'm not Reprimanded here for telling the TRUTH. And people should never Apoligize for telling the truth, it show's weakness.
Yes, down with all these lies! No make-believe, no imaginary play, no fairy tales EVER!!! Children need to be taught that only concrete things we can see are worth engaging in! Get a pencil in their hands in school and get their little fingers to the grind. How will they ever be successful as adults if they get to have fun believing for a few childhood years in something that.. gasp... isn't real?!?
Nothing wrong with fantasy and fiction - provided that you know they are fantasy and fiction, and you don't confuse them with the reality. The problem is when someone believes that a fictional character is real, that means they are deceiving themselves.
Santa Claus, north pole toy workshop, elves, and flying reindeer are all fun make-believe, but they're all fictional, too.
So....Santa is REAL then, right?...
That's not the the point!
Yes, he is. Now you go run along and play. Don't forget to clean your room later!
If she's no more attuned to 7 years olds than that, she probably shouldn't be teaching them.
By far the best comment yet.
Not the teachers place. She should be reprimanded. There should be no "moving on" and there is no "being blown out of proportion". Move it to the other side of the spectrum. What if she were into Satanism. What if she expressed those beliefs? Would people be moving on or would things be blown out of proportion? Not her place and she needs to understand that in no uncertain terms.
She should have taken it as an opportunity to teach them about the North Pole.
Not.Religious people are always so concerned with Satanism.Satanism this and satanism that.Maybe it is because they are always the ones doing Satanic stuff.In the name of Jesus of course.
Get a clue!!!
Who said anything about religion? Exchange the satanism for anything you choose and look for the point.
Parents are probably gonna sue the school for letting the teacher "shatter their world" and "ruin their lives". Only in America.
Btodd must have a seatbelt on his chair to keep from sliding off with all his greasing and lubing; however, I guess he's ready at a moments notice for his Santa.
The teacher taught the fact. There is nothing wrong in teaching fact. She had the guts. I also teach my 4 year old that ghosts, Mickey are not real. The looser parents should praise the teacher.
It is not up to the teacher or schools, it's up to the parents. Stick to teaching the three R's or shut the hell up!!!
the three R'???
Did you know that only one of those three R's actually start with an R???
That also doesn't leave alot of room for Science.
My God, Angry! You got the point didn't you? If not, then here you go...Reading, Writing, Arithmetic are the basics. Everything else (physics, science, etc) require these basics or prerequisites. Geeeeezzzzz!!
The teacher should have butted out and kept her mouth shut. My son knows he isn't really a Power Ranger but he likes to play pretend that he is. My neighbor took such offense he told him all about how Power Rangers aren't real (he already knew that) and how prostitutes are real and what that means (four year olds don't need that lesson). He was told to shut his mouth immediately, he spoke the truth, however it wasn't his place to speak of those things. Teacher needs to stick to her lesson plan and not stray to other subjects.
It is one thing we want to perpetuate a popular, albeit fabricated fantasy. It does not bother me at all. A public outrage over a teacher who points out the truth is bad. Forcing the teacher to apology for speaking of the truth reminds me of Salman Rushdie and the Danish cartoonist's caricature of The Prophet. Of course I am not at all saying we are as savage as Iranian clerics, but this incident suggests to me that the difference between us and them is smaller than I think it should have been.
So because the teacher perceives it as "the truth" she can say it? What if the teacher believed that Satanism is the truth? Should she also speak it as the truth to the kids?
"Perceives" it as truth???? How do you perceive this as truth?? IT IS TRUE!!!
Do you still believe in Santa??
Look at google earth....there is no one hanging out with elves and toys at the north pole....FACT!!!!
Angry, how old are you. I have to spell out everything for you?
What does it matter what if I believe. The second grader does. There are second grade orphans out their whose parents who were murdered. Do you tell them how exactly because it is...FACT!!!? Let them live in their world for how long they choose to live that way. Is it my place to tell your children that what you tell them is wrong? It would'nt even cross my mind to do so because it is not my place.
You want your kids to believe in fairy tales and a bunch of nonsense, thats your business. Don't expect the rest of us to reinforce your nonsense.
Then, in essence, it's not up to the teacher to dispel it either, since it's the parent's business and not the teachers!
So they shouldn't dispel that the world isn't flat? Or that the moon is made of cheese?
How long do you let your kids believe the nonsense.....this is the kind of thing that makes our public schools one of the laughing stocks of the world.....we aren't teaching our kids facts, in fact we teach them lies and let them believe it for years before they are told the truth....how backwards can you get????
You want your kids to believe in magic then you homeschool them.
I believe that the United States has been a laughing stock for its entire existence to the rest of the world. I also believe that parents have been teaching their kids of Santa Claus for that entire existence. Through two world wars that saved the rest of the world. Santa Claus was there and always will be.
Angry left -- thank you for the reminder about why the political left cannot generally be trusted to think sensibly.
Jogrinder - Thany you for reminding us why political conservatives cannot generally be trusted to understand the basic concept of "Truth", and why they promote their cherished mythologies instead.