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Subscribe to RSSThe pastor at a Kentucky church says he will nullify a vote taken by members of his congregation that bans interracial couples.
Stacy Stepp, who is pastor of the Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church in Pike County, told the Lexington Herald-Leader on Saturday that he plans to declare the vote approving the policy null and void.
The move comes after Stepp, who says he opposed the policy, asked for advice from the Sandy Valley Conference of Free Will Baptists.
The conference met Saturday and issued a statement saying it had determined there weren't enough members voting in favor of the proposal, which would require a change in church bylaws. The vote last week at the church, which has about 40 people who attend, was 9-6.
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Good for him. Racism should not be tolerated.
Can someone with DNA knowledge tell me how much difference in percentage there is between the white people DNA and the black people DNA?
I have just one question for these 'church' goers. Did God make blood black, white, yellow,or did He make it red for us all? God forbid any of them needing a blood transfusion with only black people blood in the fridge.
Some churches have local bi-laws and a constitution which states that so many members must be in attendance, before a matter can be voted on. These people actually had so many members walk out of their church meeting, or abstain from voting. So they tried to pass this law while violating their own church laws.
Peter, it's my understanding that there is zero difference in the DNA between "races", other than the slight differences between any two humans. We are all one species, and we are actually all related, though we might be fairly distant cousins.
If things go like they do where I live, the Church will soon fire the Pastor. The members run the Church not the Pastor.
this is no different than when Churches ban/revoke/deny same-sex marriages. @ Peter..along the same lines, did God make human love for us all? Throw out same-sex bans as well. Discrimination, no matter what form, should not be tolerated.
Cornmeal is right. The church will probably run the pastor off. I would find a new church if I were the pastor before they got the chance to run me off. I wouldn't be haning around there anyway.
To address the DNA question, there is little difference. You could check a white, black and monkeys DNA and find no difference. There are switches that are turned on and off in the DNA that makes the difference.
I believe they were voting on the peoples actions rather than there race. We all do that. Just most do not own up to it. If some would look up the definition of racism they would discover it means treating one race different than another. This means better or worst. To explain: If one brotha talks and treats the other different that is racism at work.
It is just that the black race thinks they have a monopoly on the term.
The thing is, in church, which would you like to sit with?
@justme, sorry, DNA is different right down to the individual human.
You missed the part about switches. To help you, it is like bits and bites in a program. I don't have the time to bring everone into this technology. Just google it.
yeah, we were all programmed by an alien race several hundred thousand years ago. At some time in the future we may be able to read the code well enough in our DNA to change those data bits to whatever we want. Like turning off the death switch in our DNA code and we get to live until some accident kills us and never actually grow old. Also, the DNA is a code, much like a computer program and may have "comment" lines in it that tells what each subroutine does, that way the DNA code is documented right there in the coding.....LOL just kidding.... :)
God didnt make blood red, nature and evolution did.
Instead of tossing out the interracial couples. Why not toss out the pastor and find a more level headed one that accepts all people. Better yet, just shut down all these church and religious institutions and then we wouldn't have as many problems such as this any longer.
Tax them all, or shut them all down.
RON PAUL 2012
He shouldn't even have taken a vote, much less gone to anyone to ask for "guidance." He should have said it was a rediculous rule, and if anyone in the church didn't like it, tell them to go form their own racist church.
Now these church goers will only hate the pastor and still not welcome this couple...nice way to show Chritsian love..
Banning them was not the pastors's doing; it was put to a vote of the congregation; the original article never stated who brought this up for vote!
Replace Black and White with Tall and Short:
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? well skin colour is just another trait humans share along with thing like height, eye colour and hair colour. "Black" and "white" don't really exist, instead we have contiguous gradients across populations of very dark brown to a translucent colour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_skin_hue_equi3.png
Json: Actually, this is not the same as same-sex marriages. The bible specifically talks about homosexual relationships as being sexual sin. The bible however doesn't make any claims about interracial relationships only that they should be male and female. You can't equate the two. And God did make love for us all, provided it falls under his rules, such as no sex before marriage, etc.
Since when do racists care about DNA? When did rational thinking enter the mind of a racist who is justifying their backward belief system?
Arieus
You are obviously confused which I suppose explains the Ron Paul support.
The CHURCH voted to not allow interracial couples in. The Pastor vetoed that decision.
Read the first paragraph:
Just another typical MSNBC article trying to find people to hate each other. They must really need the ratings tonight otherwise nobody would bother to tune in.
Actually, there is very little difference in DNA between races. Only within the last few months, have scientists been able to determine race using DNA. In fact, if you were to take my DNA (white) and compare it with the DNA of a black person and with the DNA of another white person, there is a fair chance that, as a percentage of DNA, I am more closely related to the black person. Humans share about 99.9% of their DNA. That may be somewhat misleading though since have learned that turning on or off certain portions of genes may have a huge impact on how we, and all other animals, develop.
Monkeys are a different species so there is a pretty good difference. Our closest relatives are chimps (also a different species), share 95% to 98.5% of their DNA with us. We also share about 60% of our DNA with mice.
Chimps are not monkeys.
I am still amazed that a Christian organization would nullify this very racist vote only because not enough members voted rather than because this vote was not a Christian thing to do. The pastor should be stripped of whatever makes him the pastor and the people who voted for the ban should be excommunicated. This is a relationship between a man and a woman, not a black man and a white woman. This isn't 1963 (and yes, I do remember 1963, in the south, Memphis, TN)
tiredofhypocrites,
What exactly is a race?
@unhappy "Json: Actually, this is not the same as same-sex marriages. The bible specifically talks about homosexual relationships as being sexual sin. The bible however doesn't make any claims about interracial relationships only that they should be male and female. You can't equate the two. And God did make love for us all, provided it falls under his rules, such as no sex before marriage, etc."
Let us not apply cafeteria conformity to Biblical script. Which is what you are attempting to do above. Yes, the Bible does dialog about homosexuality, as it does about slavery being okay, and women being unclean while on their period, etc. etc... The oft convenient "I'll take this, and leave that..." approach to the Bible smacks of hypocrisy and is better left out of any debate. A-la-carte application of Biblical script corrupts the over-arching premise and purpose of faith in God - especially when the Bible becomes a tool of discrimination, an excuse for oppression, or a weapon of destruction - it is ceases to be divine and is just as prone to corruption as any other thing humanity can touch. If God really hates the sin of homosexuality more-so than say, adultery, killing, false testimony, false idols, covetous neighbors, and not honoring the sabbath, you'd think he would have listed it as at least #11... ...but instead I sit here on a Sunday in a Judeo-Christian nation watching the true national religion as the Giants play the Packers... all because the masses love to hide behind faith when it suits their needs, and dismiss it when it gets in the way of what they desire...
Do black women marry white men? Would this be an upgrade? If so, for the man or woman.
'What is race'? Race is genetic based differences in population groups which arose as their ancestors took different genetic paths resulting from responses to different environmental pressures........the ancestors of Caucasions and East Asians left African tens of thousands of years ago, at seperate times, and developed along different environmental pressures than present day Africans........so you have three major groups that developed different responses to those different pressures........those who say that race is entirely a social construct are fundamentally ignorant of the reality.........those who say that one racial group is superior to another are fundamentally ignorant of the reality........the fact is that there are differences in races as a result of those evolutionary processes manifested as a result of different pressures and environments........to say otherwise is idiocy.........to claim superiority as a result is equally idiotic.
As my genetics professor puts it, "we're all mutant black people." There are 6 genes that contribute to the polygenic trait of skin color. People with lighter pigmentation just have some of those genes turned off while the palest of us have them all turned off. As our ancestors moved away from living near the equator, skin pigmentation lightned due to a delicate balance between vitamin D and folic acid degredation due to sun exposure.
Peter, you said, "I have just one question for these 'church' goers. Did God make blood black, white, yellow,or did He make it red for us all? God forbid any of them needing a blood transfusion with only black people blood in the fridge."
This reminds me of an episode of the old show, "All in the Family". Archie (the bigoted main character for those too young to remember) needed a transfusion for some reason or another. The only blood that was close to his was from a black person.
As one idiot to another, it is idiotic to not know that in the beginning of time what caused man to leave was the shortage of food. The smarter ones, the hunters left to venture out.
You know like Columbus. These were the superior race. The others stayed and learned to play basket ball.
Arieus,
Ron Paul is about the last person you would want to look at to start taxing churches, so you are definitely confused. Besides, atheists (like myself) should oppose taxation of churches as vehemently as churches do. Why? Because a tax implies that the church is receiving some kind of benefit from the government, which, if one believes in the separation of church and state, is unconstitutional.
Keep church out of my government and I'll keep government (and taxes) out of your church.
Can they still marry sisters?
Atheist - Selective remembering. We all forget sometimes, it's OK.
Why is it that the stereotype that anyone who is racist is because they are ignorant or bigots, when the truth of the matter is that most become so because they have had to live in black neighborhoods and have seen their behavior?
Either that, or have spent time in a prison and given the full spectrum. I've never heard a single story of someone who has spent time in a prison and hasn't come out with a very intense understanding of racism.
http://www.areyougoingtoprison.com/are-you-going-to-prison-stories.html
Clatz, that's a great question! As I understand it, "race" is a relatively recent human construct dating back to the late 17th century. The bottom line is that we are all the same species, homo sapiens sapiens. We really need to get beyond seeing just the phenotypic difference of skin color. If that is what you use to determine your friends or who you hire for a job, you are really short changing yourself and you will end up the poorer for it in the long run.
A little about me and my family folks.
On my dads side, my grandfather is a Brit, and my grandmother is Apache Indian,
On my mothers side, my grandfather is Irish, and my grandmother is Dutch,
My wife is Filipino, and my children are all the above, so if any church has a problem
with that, then they can go stick it !!!!
If anyone thinks for one second that they are not a mix of colors, then they had better go look in the mirror again.
If anyone wants to put a color on all humanity then it is Red, The color of the blood in our veins.
Have a good day, Tom And Lyn
Actually NamVet, it was started by the Pastor - the previous one who then stepped down shortly after the vote - which went the way he wanted it to, by the way. This is the new pastor who is voiding the results.
Notice though, that although he says he's against the policy, he's not voiding it because it's the right thing to do, but rather on a technicality that a quorum didn't vote.
I would think that firing the pastor would require a vote of the entire congregation. Since the majority of them seemed to agree with him more than with the false "christians" who voted in the ban in the first place, I doubt he'll be looking for a new job any time soon.
Areius, if you had actually read the article, you would see that the pastor was OPPOSED to the ban.
If I remember the original article correctly, the man who proposed the ban did so AFTER he had stepped down as pastor. Does anyone have the original article handy to confirm this?
@j70141, you made the point, judging people on the basis of a few misbehaving miscreants is both ignorant and bigoted. I grew up in several disadvantaged black and hispanic neighborhoods, saw many bad things happen, yet somehow I manage not to paint everyone based on the actions of a few mean, ignorant, and very un-wise individuals! If you're going to hate, hate the individual that hurt you, not the one that just happens to have the same skin color as the one that hurt you. (kinda like punishing the dog because the cat shredded your best tie.)
There is only one race in the world. It is " human race".
This don't work if you think of it that way Tom. We are voting actions not race. We just use race becuase we are ignotant. Certain people have certain things in common. Profiling works. Many people out on the south side of town at 4am are up to no good. We all provile, it should be done in an open minded loving way.
It is peoples habits that the church goers did not want. Some like fried chicken, some like boloni sandwiches and some something else.
Last example: Really fast talkers usually are trying to hide something. They usually repeat your question so they can form an acceptable answer. 80% of the time you can correctly profile these.
I'm guessing that the number of interracial couples interested in attending ANY church with such an ignorant and backward congregation is approximately zero. Vote or no vote, there aren't going to be any interracial couples attending on Sundays...not even if they survive the midnight lynching.
Kentucky. The state where interracial couples are considered bad, but seriously inbred "white couples" are not only fine, they are in the majority too.
This post got 9 likes ( or thumb ups, whatever you call them) Nothing wrong with what the person posting this was thinking, except that the paster was on the side of the interracial couples. Please, read the articals before commenting. It's really the only way to leave an informed opinion.
For those of you unfamiliar with Baptist ways, ALL perspective members are voted in as members when they wish to join even the family of existing members. I've personally NEVER seen anyone rejected but then there are a lot of churches out there, and racists in every walk of life. They come in every color too.
The pastor's bigotry was clear in his original message: The interracial couple was not welcome at his church. Only when the pastor's racial preferences became public did he start hinting that he was only acting on behalf of the church board members.
Well, Praise the Lord because I thought it was YOU, Pastor Piece of Shyte, that was the bigoted ass-hat. I am so relieved that it's really the church board with the unscrupulous racist beliefs and that you, as their beloved leader, are here to set them on the right path.
On a personal note, and speaking as a life-long Southern Baptist, there is no 'vote' as to who can become a member and who cannot. The very idea is ridiculous. We use tom-foolery, shenanigans and other emotionally damaging methods to chase undesirables away.
@formerstew,
A previous article about this same church made it clear that the ban vote was initiated by the previous pastor after that pastor had left the church. The current pastor may have been bound by church bylaws to allow the vote. Or, he hoped the motion would get soundly defeated. Instead, now he is trying to clean up the mess started by a former pastor and some parishioners living in the 1950's.
Isn't "Race" in humans similar to "Breeds" in dogs or cats?
Of course there are differences between the DNA of black and white people just as there are differences between the DNA of Poodles and Great Danes.
Peter (1.1) DNA is very interesting and misunderstood in the reference to races. A good explanation in video form is linked below. God had nothing to do with DNA, or anything else that anyone has proof of. DNA is a fact, God is - well better off left to the imagination.
@ Unhappy-1583758
Actually Unhappy according to biblical principal, God gave love regardless of those that adhered or don't adhere to principals outlined in the bible. I hate the fact that so many people following the Christian faith misses the simplest and most direct verses in the bible when defending a position:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Pretty simple...God never says except those that are of a certain color, except those sinners that uses His name in vain, except those sinners that have spite in their heart, except those men who loves another man or those women who loves another women.
Do pastors preach as loudly about all the other sinners mentioned in the bible that shall not inherit the earth? What about adulterers...yes there are professed Christians reading this right now, who according to the bible shall not inherit His kingdom. What about you drunkards? The kicker is the bible follows the verse to state that many of you would not inherit the world except for the blood of His son.
I think everyone misses the point of the bible...God is the ONLY one, through His Son, with the power to provide redemption and therefore everlasting life. It makes no sense to me that so often basic biblical principals are ignored in the face of defending ignorant and bigotry positions. If all Christians stuck with the basic principals of the bible, same as Muslims with the Koran, etc...there would be a whole lot of hate in this world and a lot less human failures.
@ Unhappy-1583758
Actually Unhappy according to biblical principal, God gave love regardless of those that adhered or don't adhere to principals outlined in the bible. I hate the fact that so many people following the Christian faith misses the simplest and most direct verses in the bible when defending a position:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Pretty simple...God never says except those that are of a certain color, except those sinners that uses His name in vain, except those sinners that have spite in their heart, except those men who loves another man or those women who loves another women.
Do pastors preach as loudly about all the other sinners mentioned in the bible that shall not inherit the earth? What about adulterers...yes there are professed Christians reading this right now, who according to the bible shall not inherit His kingdom. What about you drunkards? The kicker is the bible follows the verse to state that many of you would not inherit the world except for the blood of His son.
I think everyone misses the point of the bible...God is the ONLY one, through His Son, with the power to provide redemption and therefore everlasting life. It makes no sense to me that so often basic biblical principals are ignored in the face of defending ignorant and bigotry positions. If all Christians stuck with the basic principals of the bible, same as Muslims with the Koran, etc...there would be a whole lot of hate in this world and a lot less human failures.
Racism in religion has been around in one form or another since religions began. No religions, sects, denominations, or beliefs have been immune from it. Glad to see this pastor had the guts to stand up to the neolithic boneheads that tried to promote such beliefs.
What an outrage! It's just another example of Christian hypocrisy.
Whatever happened to "What Would Jesus Do?"
What god do they think it was who created people of other races?
In my experience, the worst, most intolerant and hateful people are the most 'religious'.
Some of those sanctimonious blowhards are probably of mixed race themselves but they're too ignorant to know it.
How the heck do 15 racist rednecks from Kentucky get on the MSNBC banner headline??
Because the fact that a church is even putting something as trivial as race up for a vote is kind of last century. It blows my mind that a church would want to limit its membership like this.
Not even 15. It's NINE racist rednecks. 6 voted against. I can find 9 racist rednecks at any given bar or bowling alley. It's only news when you want to make Christians look bad.
Anything for a breaking story these days!
Because it is the ONLY way to put an end to this kind of ignorance and racism. Embarrass and shame these bigots across the nation.
News? or not? doesn't matter..but it gets people to read it and comment and click on ads. Isn't capitalism great?
Same as the kooks at Westboro Baptist Church, the group of 15 inbreds that are known for their stance on gays as well as being against Jewish peoples. Dumb is dumb...
All church's are just money scams anyways.
The pastor just makes up stuff concerning god based on getting money from the congregation. Just like he announces some word from god that interracial couples are not welcome.
why did you assume it is rednecks? Isn't that stereo-typing rednecks by saying all are racist? Don't you think you are practicing the same bigotry that these church members are by stereo-typing? The irony is this same bigotry exists for same-sex couples. I hope you are defending and arguing against bigotry when it comes to homosexuals, I think that's sort of discrimination is "last century" too.
Here is a better one. Why would people take the time to discuss it on a plastic machine with a key board?
Ha, that is funny.
I've had some pretty deep relationships with plastic machines.
The headline should have read, "Nine Bigots Found in Kentucky." They just chose to show their bigotry in the church. Good for the six who stood their ground. Shame on those who walked out on the vote. I think they were disgusted with even having to do it, but voting is voting. I don't surrender my vote because I am disgusted; I use my vote to change something or hold my ground. It does take a little backbone to vote.
As for the minister losing his position: maybe, maybe not. I don't believe this little bunch of bigots want more attention. I'm sure they've heard the outrage. The minister probably thinks he really had some work to do, as was proven by the the nine bigots in his congregation. When 25% of the congregation has spoken out against other members of their congregation, based only on their bias against skin color, this group has serious problems. Instead of pulling together, as is their religion's tenets of loving one another, they will tear the whole group apart. This is another sad commentary on the state of affairs of religion and the people who supposedly follow that religion.
P.S. This story concerns Christianity; however, one could substitute just about any other religion's (or any other group, such as political affiliation's) name. It's using religion to further one's own person agenda.
Json Its Kentuckey and a church of course they are rednecks. I would know I live in the redneck racist core state known as alabama.
ohhhh @Grape....your a funny one!! I'll just chalk your comment to ignorance....which would be the same as the folks that voted against having interracial members in the congregation....My father is a Baptist pastor who was called many years ago at a missionary baptist church right here in the bible bellt in Texas. He went alot of those years preaching at this church and working two jobs to pay the bills for the church, the parsonage, and for the needy at Christmas time and Thanksgiving. He didn't collect a salary from the church because most of the members were elderly and could tithe very little...and it took a while to build the congregation up to what it is today. The Church is doing well now and my father has been able to retire from his other jobs and focus 100% on the church which has just brought about more blessings. The money that the church recieves, pays for things like BILLS, gasoline when trips are taken, oh and then to send money to missionaries that are working over seas, and then to other sister churches that may be in crisis and in need of a love offering as well as families in the community that need our help. I won't step out and say every church is like this, there are some out there that unfortunately do prey on people and their beliefs, but there are VERY MANY that are not what you chalked them up to be! With that being said, I think what this particular pastor has done was absolutely awesome!! My sister and her husband are of different races and we actually have other members in our church that are as well. Everybody bleeds red, evolution and nature didn't make it that way either. I am glad to see this man take a step out and go against his congregation whether it be 15 or 100 when it is something as ignorant as this vote was......I'm assuming a racist member must have had fluffed feathers when a couple asked to join the church for this issue to even be brought to the table........
Now Neko I moved down here to Alabama over a year ago from Illinois, and although I have met a few more racists here than I have in Illinois, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
It's their driving they get bad marks on...
Why is it that the stereotype that anyone who is racist is because they are ignorant or bigots, when the truth of the matter is that most become so because they have had to live in black neighborhoods and have seen their behavior?
Either that, or have spent time in a prison and given the full spectrum. I've never heard a single story of someone who has spent time in a prison and hasn't come out with a very intense understanding of racism.
http://www.areyougoingtoprison.com/are-you-going-to-prison-stories.html
@btowngrl: I followed the link in the story and found out that the vote was initiated by a former pastor who is now a member of the church. He did so after talking with the church clerk whose daughter brought her Black fiance' to the church sometime this past summer. The couple performed a song during the service. Their mere presence, along with taking part in the service, stirred the hornet's nest. The agitators finally were able to bring the matter to a vote. However, they failed to follow Robert's Rules of Order which require a majority of the membership votes or that a vote be carried by a simple majority. The 9-6 vote met neither criteria, failing the latter by just one vote. Isn't God good! Because of that one vote, the whole thing was nullified and attention was brought to bear on the unChristian, bigoted, racist behavior. No doubt, the current pastor was praying and God heard and answered his prayer. Perhaps now, he can teach them about the meaning of the God kind of love that is talked about in I Corinthians 13.
What is more idiotic.......that 9 racist rednecks found the need to vote on this..........or that thousands of people should care enough to be angry?
hay you black wellfare sucking inter breed a redneck is a farmer/rancher not like you bitch the name redneck comes from them spending all day working on ther farm/ranch with there shirt on makeing ther neck red therefor rednecks if it was not for them you would be doing what your brother/sister are doing in you home country eating the kids and anyone else !!if you don't know that is going on it because of all the lies the n.a.a.c.p.tells like that king person being a dortor not in his life our yours
What?
And this is why people have such a low opinion of "rednecks". Just FYI, moark (which I bet stands for "Mississippi" and "Arkansas"), Martin Luther King had a Ph.D. in theology, which entitled him to use "Dr." before his name. Of course, someone with your intelligence level probably isn't familiar with the concept of higher education.
Your are joking, right Vicki?
"For starters, his own university admits that his doctoral thesis, the very foundation of his career, was significantly plagiarized. Seriously. They had an official inquiry and everything."
Gosh, even I knew that bit. I'm surprised you didn't.
5 Great Men Who Built Their Careers on Plagiarism
http://www.cracked.com/article_17198_5-great-men-who-built-their-careers-plagiarism.html
Thanks everyone for letting me say anything I wanted to. Most I just made up and it did sound a little stupid. Some of you made me laugh. I am sure some of you feel the same way. Or maybe not.
I would feel better is more of you commented on my writing. Isn't that why we are here anyway? Oh, thanks for the voting also.
To be honest with you, I do feel that I am secretly part of a nerd club.
@Marie Amen!! YES God is so very good!!! thanks for sharing the entire story! It sounds like some super hardshell baptist stuck in a time long past, in an independant Baptist church no less. He needs prayer for a softer heart and to be enlightened @Moark you are offensive and i didn't really get what you were trying to say, i know a lot of farmers and ranchers that would prefer not to be called a redneck, and they are also not racist like you seem to be. You are claiming to be a redneck in the same sentence you throw racial remarks in....hmmm i wonder why they call ya rednecks? @J70141 unless you have been to prison then how do you know....by what others tell you? MLK was a good man, I love the way that people come up with anything to slander someone because of the color of their skin, Conspiricy theorists.....you must be racist....and yes it is ignorance, something you are afraid of, ignorance is something that you don't know anything about. Educate yourself, you'll find out that every race has the same issues.....it doesn't matter the color of your skin.
moark, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 and # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Good for him, I agree with but why were they even putting the question up for a vote?
Why put it up for a vote? Reason: anytime anyone wants to join a Free Will Baptist church, the existing members vote on whether or not to accept that person. It doesn't matter whom, anyone who wants to join a particular congregation gets voted in or not.
Voting on a member is different than voting on denying a class of people the opportunity to join.
Why would anyone want to go to that church anyway?
If you study religion and practice righteous works why would you want to go to any church, period?
To make yourself feel better than the other sinners , chew the fat with other members, make business contacts, and meet good looking women.
So the Bible and it's teachings can be custom fitted to whatever subjective criteria you wish it to be by a vote of the majority in any one particular congregation . . . whodda thunk . . ?
Wasn't all men made equal??????? That in Kentucky are like most all churches in the USA, the minister listens to his flock whether he agree's or not. He has too or will be kicked out but this one didn't feel against the interracial. For this, the minister should be honored for refusing.
I think your comment patrick1315 is the reason there are so many different Christian Churches. Doesn't the following sound real "Christian"?
"In 1845, the Baptists congregations in the United States split over three main issues: slavery, missions, and doctrinal integrity. The northern congregations were opposed to members in the southern congregations owning slaves, and tried to prevent slaveholders from being missionaries. However, not appointing a proportionate number of missionaries to the southern region of the US sparked animosity from the southern churches. The southern congregations were also concerned over perceived liberalism in the north, accusing some missionaries of denying virgin birth and divinity of Jesus. The split created the Southern Baptist Convention, while the northern congregations, then known as Northern Baptists, formed their own umbrella organization now called the American Baptist Churches of the USA (ABC-USA).
After the American Civil War, another split occurred: most black Baptists in the South separated from white churches and set up their own congregations. In the late 1860s, they rapidly set up several separate state conventions. In 1895 their three national conventions merged into the National Baptist Convention. With 8 million members, it is the largest African-American religious organization and is second in size to the Southern Baptist Convention". Wikipedia
I don't pick on the S. Baptist but they are the main religious group in rural MS.
Amazing that this sh*t still goes on today!!!!
is it? These same Churches/Religions also discriminate against same-sex marriages. Why is discrimination against races somehow different than against sexual orientation? The real bigotry is how some believe these two forms of discrimination are somehow different.
Those churches who discriminate against interracial couples are wrong. Discriminating against homosexual relationships are in accordance with the bible because according to God it is labeled as sexual sin. The real stupidity assumes that you are the one who is correct and God is the one who is wrong.
If you create something in your own image, then maybe, you can make the rules but until then...
This:
Then this:
lol
So discriminating against people that wear mixed cloth is ok? How about eating shellfish?
@Unhappy-1583758
"Those churches who discriminate against interracial couples are wrong. Discriminating against homosexual relationships are in accordance with the bible because according to God it is labeled as sexual sin. The real stupidity assumes that you are the one who is correct and God is the one who is wrong."
There is only one convincing biblical verse, and it's not only in the old messianic law we don't follow any more, but it only applies to males (not lesbians) and in context seems to be specifically referring to a problem they had at the time with some pegan rituals in temples ... not couples (which JC himself arguably blessed). Regardless, it is nothing to throw the rest of the bible out over, or your own human empathy, and I have trouble accepting your (faux) outrage over this particular injustice when you support the same treatment being applied to millions of other loving couples.
PS: Go back a few decades and all the mainstream churches didn't seem to question their "biblical evidence" of the "immorality" of interracial marriage / unions ... and they tossed around multiple biblical verses to support it when it was questioned.
So, the vote was annulled (by the 'Conference'), not because it's unChristian, but because there weren't enough voters. GIVE ME A BREAK!
Can't blame them on that. In the Baptist structure, the conference can't just override a congregation just like that. But it sounds as if they had their experts look for a loophole to allow the pastor to void the vote, and they found it. They helped as best they could.
Rich -- for anyone with a shred of morals or honor, the "loophole" is expelling all those who voted for the racist policy from the church immediately. There's no need for process or debate when something like this happens.
jp although I agree with you, expelling those who voted for the the racist policy won't work, unless they broke or violated church law. Some of these little hole in the wall country churches are still stuck back in the 1950's. The real instigator of this whole thing was the ex-pastor of that church. Hopefully he and the rest of those haters will leave after having their vote thrown out.
Sounds like a bunch of good Christians practicing their faith as the Bible dictates. Considering his middle east origin, Christ might have been darker skinned. Bet that would shake those good Christians up!
at the time of Christ's birth, european whites were somewhere between fairly rare and unknown in the middle east.
odds are better than 99 in 100 that Jesus was indeed of olive or darker skin.
Jesus was NOT a white skinned european. He was most likely an olive skinned and mediterranean or of some other middle eastern / arabic lineage. It amazes me how racist some people can be when they ignore that fact.
I'm Christian and I don't mind that Jesus could have easily been of any middle eastern descent.
Yeah, the TSA would have strip searched him.
What would shake some of those Baptists even more is the fact that every male on this planet has a genetic marker that traces our ancestry to a single tribe in Africa - yes, Adam and Eve were BLACK! Gives a whole new meaning to the term "brother"!
@FormerMarineSgt: considering Jesus was Jewish, it's a pretty good bet that he was of Semitic descent and therefore very likely to have been darker-skinned.
The article says there are only 40 people who attend this church.
40 people and this is FRONT PAGE NEWS FOR MSNBC?????? Who cares???? Really...
While it may be only forty church members, it is important to expose this type of racism. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are many "good Christians" south of the Mason-Dixon line that would vote this way given the opportunity, and perhaps a few on the northern side, too.
you're here to comment, aren't you? its all about web site traffic. stupid capitalism! :)
I think there are likely to be quite a few north of Mason & Dixon's Line too.
this isn't just a "white" phenomenon. There are numerous black/Asian communities who forbid their members from marrying outside their race. It is very, very common. So knock off the "redneck" stereo typing. Just remember though, that there are hundreds of both black and white Christian churches who discriminate against same-sex marriages.
Who are you kidding? These people are obviously the very definition of 'redneck'.
Sunday. Slow news day because everyone's watching football.
What was the old joke? An old black fellow was walking down the road, all depressed and rejected when he met The Lord walking down the other side of the road.. The Lord said to the old black gentleman, "Why are you looking so depressed?" and the old fellow said, "Lord I've been trying to get into that white church to worship you, I didn't see what difference my race should make"
And The Lord said, "Ah, don't worry about it, I've been trying to get in there for years myself."
Why would anyone want to go to that church to begin with if that is their attitude? I wonder if they happen to remember that Jesus was a Jew, not a Baptist....
Down where I live, the local Church says Jesus made grape juice and not wine. They will tell you Jesus was a Christian and so maybe he really was a Southern Baptist.
You're kidding me? Tell that congregation to read a history book. lol What's next will they say Jesus was an American that loved NASCAR?
John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, was Baptist. LOL.
I think the notoriety and the threat of a law suite may have also led to this decision. It still is a blemish on that church and that state. I have a friend that live in that state and stories she had told you would think we were back in time....it's sad.
Why should the actions of one small group of people reflect on an entire state? The actions of a small group of people should not reflect on Islam, should it? Or a small group's actions on a nation? Why should a state be judged by one. small. group???
no, the whole state should not necessarily be judged by the actions and biases of one small group - but they can and should be judged on their reaction to it. The jury is still out, but it would appear the judgement in that regard may be favorable (i.e. people ashamed to share a state with these bigots). A blind eye cannot be turned to this sort of thing just because the group is small. Every movement in mankind started small - including the Nazi party. The problems happen when a small malignancy is ignored and allowed to metastasise due to neglect.
Banning a vote is not going to change the hearts and minds of its members. It doesn't matter whether the vote has been banned or not the damage has been done. You can forgive but not forget. Why put yourself through it when one can seek to worship elsewhere.
It all depends what you consider at "state" Saddened. It appears to be a state of mind and this kind of behavior crosses every border. I am in Massachusetts and I have experienced it with my best friend. She caused so much ruckus that her son annulled a marriage. When talking to her she will say it is due to her disdain to her "as a person" but the words out of her mouth certainly didn't reflect that. I am 54 and have been friends with her since 15. This has made a derogatory impact on our relationship. No matter how many years you know a person, you don't really "know" them.
Texan.....no this one action should not reflect on the state, but it is just one episode that gets the notoriety and people may remember that state. It should be a model, but people talk and the news is spread. You can also say that about the certain congress members constantly talking and holding hearing about Muslims too. Look how that spread.
If anyone wonders how this ignorant policy was adopted in the first place.. The answer is there in' black and white.'
I and my girlfriend are Atheists and we've been looking for a Church that would marry us. I think I just found it.
#sarcasm.
This story SICKENED me utterly made me want to THROW UP. So much so I was going to today research the name of the church and give those JERKS a piece of my academically oriented NORTHERN mind. These people are REACTIONARY JERKS. What century Mr. Pastor whatever your name is are you living in? What kind of Christians are you? You are a JOKE a sad commentary on fundamentalist Christianity. These are the people who lead us into the 21st century living like hermits WHERE in the boondocks of the forest somewhere.
Mr. Pastor (I do not know his name and do not want to) SHAME on you and your god forsaken church that we even NEED in this day in this 21st century need to deal with cerebral KNOW NOTHINGS like you. Why would I be willing to bet you are ALL Republicans...what a joke..Good Newty or Mitt have a great time courting these numskulls!
apparently your 'academically oriented mind' failed to comprehend that this article is about how the pastor of this church was choosing to ignore the racist voting bloc in is church, who were in favor of keeping the 'no interracial couples' rule. the PASTOR whom you are vilifying is trying to do the RIGHT thing and NOT allow his church to be willfully segregationist.
if you're going to get on your intellectual high-horse, at least make sure that you are riding down the appropriate target
I noticed too that Natalie neglected to thoroughly read the article and made a total fool of herself. The world seems to be full of "Natalies", and they all seem to be on these message boards. *sigh*
Anyway, kudos to the pastor for rejecting the minority vote in his church concerning the interracial couple. It seems to have exposed something rotten in his church that I am sure he will work on. Sadly, many churches I have attended in the past appear to have serious flaws, though they are somewhat hidden or have a blind eye turned toward those flaws. Church is for those who sincerely want to change, not to put a veneer over flaws.
So out of 40 members only 15 voted? That is pathetic but just illustrates not only ignorant racism but the lack of voter participation in decision making. But this is America and just reflects the problem of voter participation in all our elections where at the very best only about 50% of voters actually vote.
What century are these people living in these days? This is a repulsive comment on the parishioners who frequent this church...actually, the vote removes the title "church."
The factors in such choices are: fear; ignorance; stupidity
ignorance can be abolished by education
fear can be overcome by knowledge
stupidity is forever
Does this not show many religious organizations (Christianity!!) are hateful, spiteful and exclude those that are not like them??
So ridiculous that there are still such small minds who try to control the masses, in this day and age.
Can't blame them all my friend.
I echo the applause for the pastor to take this position. But in all reality, do you think any inter-racial couples are going to actually want to go to this church now?
And as someone who has actually been through Pike Co, KY several times, this comes as no shock to me at all. People in that part of Kentucky are about 50 years behind the rest of the modern times.
...like Christopher Hitchens says: Religion will make people do and say the most ugly things.
I wonder if any of them thought about how Jesus would have voted
It would be easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than it would be to dispel ignorance from the mind of a bigot.
Jesus doesn't enter into it, remember this is a "Christian" church.
What kind of "christian" would want to attend that church, anyway?
Maybe to get to know the 31 people who either voted against it or didn't even think it was relevant - to say nothing of the pastor who, amazingly, acted like a christian.
"a vote taken by members"
Genuine 'official' members? Or just ordinary people who showed up?
As if there would be much difference.
That church and it's members/attendees needs to look at some deeper issues, starting with tolerance.