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Subscribe to RSSThe Occupy movement is turning its attention to housing, with activists occupying homes being foreclosed on and attempting to take control of vacant properties. NBC's Michelle Franzen reports.
Police cracked down on anti-Wall Street protesters on the East and West Coasts over the weekend, arresting demonstrators in Portland, Oregon and in Washington, D.C.
In Washington, U.S. Park Police arrested more than 20 people in a downtown park Sunday, Occupy DC said, after protesters assembled a wooden structure authorities later declared to be unsafe.
Protesters have been camped for weeks at McPherson Square and began assembling the structure overnight for shelter during the winter, Occupy DC said on its website.
Several climbed on top with a couple of hundred others looking on and chanted, "Give us water, give us food, document what is happening."
Lieutenant Robert Glover of the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department told the protesters the structure was unsafe and illegal and police were not forcing protesters from the park.
"We are not looking to push this thing further," he said.
Related story: Foreclosed homes are next Occupy target
Portland police arrested 19 people who were trying to occupy a downtown park, including one man charged with criminal mischief and trespassing for climbing onto the roof of City Hall, police said.
Some 300 people had attempted to gather in Shemanski Park, beginning late on Saturday night, and then marched through the city's streets, police said.
Protesters who have been demanding economic justice for average Americans who they say suffer while the government bails out Wall Street firms have been getting arrested in recent weeks as officials try to disassemble their encampments.
In several cities, officials have cited dangerous health and safety conditions and the cost of added policing and other security measures in a time of tight budgets.
An unidentified male was reported dead at the Occupy Denton camp at the University of North Texas campus, according to a post on the university's Facebook page. It was unclear when and how the person died, and campus police were investigating, it said.
The Portland demonstrators said on Sunday they will lobby the city for a location to pitch their tents.
Several people held a vigil outside Portland City Hall, asking that a ban on camping in parks be lifted. They said they plan to stay until the city's rule is changed.
"This will be an ongoing nonviolent effort to maintain focus and attention to the issues of inequality that 99 percent of America face as the result of corporate greed and corruption," they said on their website.
Protester Kip Silverman said the demonstrators' civil rights were being "trampled on" by the city.
"We have a certain expectation for how government and the people should work together in Portland, and it is not happening right now," he said.
More than 300 arrests were made in Los Angeles last week as police cleared an Occupy encampment.
The movement began in a downtown park in New York City, but protesters were cleared from that site two weeks ago.
Oklahoma City protesters got a temporary restraining order from a judge last week to avoid being forcibly ousted.
In Seattle, however, a judge on Friday rejected a bid by activists to block their eviction from a community college, clearing the way for the city to remove them as early as the next few days.
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Sheesh. These people are becoming a circus side-show.
They keep claiming the laws don't apply to them. Why should the laws of physics, gravity and structural soundness be any different?
Agree. They were successful drawing attention to the issue of financial inequality....time to move on to proposing solid solutions.
Isn't building a shack out of scrap wood and peeing in plastic bags a "solid solution" to the problem of financial inequality ???
Send that BLOVIATING idiot Ed Shultz to help out the occupiers ( maybe he will stay there !!!! )
I seeded an article yesterday that was buried. The United Nations is investigating why the federal government has not stepped in to protect the protestors. The brutality of the police is not acceptable. Maybe the UN will have to send forces here to protect American citizens from the police who work for the money not their country.
landspirit,
Since the UN depends very heavily on the US for funding and logistical support, how do you expect that will happen? Will we allow the UN to use our C-17s to fly foreign troops in to our own country?
The day you see that happen will be the day it should no longer be possible to deny that our government is controlled by forces outside our borders.
for my self, I am happy to see OWS continuing to be active. I am a little old to be out and active in a protest. But, in my mind and heart I cheer them. One of my biggest concerns at this time is that they are too little too late for this country. Landspirit, that is an interested thought. Hey everyone keep thinking and talking and if you are brave enough, get out and make you self seen and heard.
landspirit
The protesters have the right to free speech. That's where the American part ends. They pointed out the problems which we all knew about and then became a problem. Being a protester does not allow them to break the law. If they break the law, the police will arrest them. It is simple. Once they start criticizing the police, the people who risk their lives for Americans, that's where the comical becomes serious. It is time for OWS to go back to Mom's basement. It is over.
Lar--they also have a right to assemble as well as free speech...about the police yes they protect the people like the protester in Oakland right & the ones at the college...
OWS people do not need to go back to mom's basement as these are people from all walks of life...pay attention much? No? I could tell.
@Dot
They have a right to protest and assemble. However, they do not have the right to trespass onto privately held property for any reason nor does "assemble" mean "camping out," either. People seem to be confused that, if you're on my property for any reason that I don't approve of, I can have you evicted without any thought to your right to free speech or right to assemble, because I have the right to enjoy and use my property as I see fit, and it doesn't have to include letting a bunch people camp out on my property just because they want to do that.
Where is the LOVE???!!!
The 1% gave us the Dot-Com boom, the EV1 electric car to lease (until
they recalled all of them and destroyed them all), the hand-over-fist loans
during Bush's second term, also the World Trade Organization which allows us all
to move to India in order to work in the USA by being outsourced. We love
bragging about not taking time off and working overtime while we 'wait' for the economy to 'get better'... and we swallow that
'capitalist democracy' is supposed to mean the same as 'democratic republic'.
We the 99% should show more appreciation for all that the 1% has provided for
us. As long as the 1% allows us to spend on flat screen TVs, video games, sport
events, shopping sprees, SUVs, alcohol/drugs... we really will not mind
complaining about work commutes and no vacation time. I love it that us 99% are
all so pretentious, lazy and ignorant. How can we NOT have a '1%'??? The 1% should hire a bunch of mexicans
to occupy the 'Occupy Movement'... that'll teach us all!!! :-) Merry X-mas,
Happy Kwanza, ShamalamaRamadana!!!!
The 1% also gave us great companies such as Microsoft, Google, IBM, Boeing, Ford, etc. that pay well and have allowed hundreds of thousands of their employees to become millionaires over the decades.
Yes, there are problems that need to be addressed, and yes there are better ways to do certain things - and that will always be the case. If you have a specific problem, state it and how you propose to solve it. If you just want to say things are not the way you want them to be, then you will not be very effective.
I don't believe the 1% started any of the companies you named !!!!
How did the 1% give us these great companies ?????
Here's reality.
Last year, GE made over $14 billion in profit. They paid $0 in taxes. They received $3.5 billion in tax credits directly from the IRS. Easy money.
Assume a family that paid $10,000 in income taxes last year. This is fairly average, paying 20% effective rate on median $50,000 in income.
It took 350,000 of these average families to pay for GE's corporate welfare.
That's 350,000 families that paid their taxes directly into GE's pockets and got nothing in return.
That is abhorrent. This should not be allowed to happen.
This is what the Occupy crowd is protesting. And for good reason.
And that was just GE. Most of the corporations listed above did the very same thing.
And all those corporations do what our elected lawmakers allow them to do by the laws they pass...if these 'occupiers' wish to protest the root of the problem...they should all be in Washington DC, not sleeping in tents on the public square.
I agree. I would love to see them all show up in Washington to protest our elected corporate shills. Millions of protesters on the National Mall would be great.
But, logistically, most cannot do that. So, I have no problem with them protesting wherever they can.
Microsoft and Facebook were both founded by college dropouts. Google was founded by people working in their garage just like Apple. The top 1% do not found companies, they do not pay their fair share of taxes, since the vast majority of their income is cap gains. What the top 1% has that the rest of us do not is the ability to control what happens in DC, using pledges and political contributions, lobbiests, and bought and paid for politicians. The top 1% increased their wealth by over 240%, while the rest of us lost ground.
Oh, and did GE do their part as a "job creator" with all that tax money they got?
No. Over the past 2 years, GE has cut almost 20,000 jobs.
So much for that "job creator" mantra that the Teapublicans like to parrot.
Dennis,
What is your definition of the top 1%? I thought it referred to the top 1% wage earners, or possibly the top 1% of wealth owners. If either of these criteria is used, it definitely includes people like Bill Gates. I'm not sure how being a college dropout affects the definition, but I do know the top 1% using either of my definitions, funds a tremendous number of startup companies and companies trying to expand.
Stan,
By virtue of the fact that GE is cutting 20,000 jobs, that means they hired at least 20,000 people at one time. People and companies do not accumulate wealth by sticking it under the mattress. They do so by making profitable investments. If the investment environment is good in the US, they invest here...if not, they invest in other countries.
As to cases like GE and taxes, keep in mind that, for the most part, they just took advantage of all of the tax incentives they could find. For example, where I live they are looking for ways to not spend the estimated $100 million plus needed to expand power capacity to meet projected demands. So, they are offering incentive programs to make buildings more energy efficient, and investing in technology to allow them to charge more for peak usage and use excess energy created by local users with things such as solar and wind power generation. This is an example of the types of incentive programs GE takes advantage of - and, if done right, these programs will significantly reduce the cost to local taxpayers over the next few decades.
Having said that, my preference is to separate government and business as much as possible, so I'm actually against most of these incentive programs. But, I think it's worthwhile to consider the "other side" of the issues.
I shake my head in disbelief every time I see a screed against GE without the word "Obama." Remember when Immelt was hanging out at the White House as the head of some friggin bogus green task force and they installed all those power stations for electric cars at their headquarters? Remember when they bought 12,000 Volts from Obama Motors?
Did you think they did that for free or something? This is a mutual back-scratching world, no tickey no washey as they say.
You can always tell the leftists.....they will never find fault with the government, especially if it's a Democrat-controlled government. It's that 1%, always and everywhere causing turmoil because they love a market embroiled in chaos that makes it next to impossible to plan for future production.
This only makes sense to people who have never made decisions in a private-sector organization that must sink or swim on its own merit.
Ron,
Let's just say that GE already has the incentive to do what is in their own best interests without the people's tax money.
As for Federal tax credits, I am for individuals and state/local governments being able to take advantage of those credits that make sense.
But, a highly profitable mega-corporation, like GE (Verizon, DuPont, Boeing, etc.) should not be allowed to have negative tax rates. They can use those credits to reduce their taxable income, but not go negative on their taxes.
It is not fair that 350,000 families should shoulder the burden of further enriching of an already rich corporation, and get nothing for all of the tax money that they were forced to pay.
I do not see how anyone can "spin" this as fair.
I do agree with part of that ron but when they can have the people lobby for the tax breaks, that is buying the politicians and that is what gets me upset with the way they run the government and that needs to change. and cut out all the loopholes theses corp. crooks get to enjoy that no one else gets.
Seattle,
You seem to make the assumption that I am a Democrat lefty. How wrong you are. I am neither Republican or Democrat.
The example I gave made no mention of political party. This travesty goes on under both political parties. It always has. You cannot control a government by bribing only half of the politicians.
But, for you to think that this only happens in Democrat administrations is truly naive. If you think that the Republicans would change this situation, you should reassess that idea.
You see, we now have to somehow shine a light on these shady practices in an environment where both the politicians and monied interests prefer to hide their dealings in the shadows.
This is what the Occupy crowd is trying to do. And I commend them for it.
And I think the overreaction by the "authorities" indicates that the Occupy crowd is striking some nerves.
Stan--while I agree with you that GE's not paying any taxes is an anathema, I'll have to point out that MY $10K in INCOME taxes goes to fund the 'earned income' tax credit that goes to people who have too many babies, pay NO income tax or (for the most part), property tax, and also gets food stamps, housing assistance, WIC, a free education and lo cost/free breakfast and lunch for their many offspring, etc, and I FIND THAT offensive too.
And I NEVER heard of a poor EIC recipient creating ANY jobs.
GE (et al) is a multi headed monster, (and BTW--I thought the alternative minimum tax was intended to keep people/entities from paying NO taxes?? Guess we need to retool that?)but it DOES provide jobs to many, dividends to many retired folks, (individually or thru pension plans) NUMEROUS charitable donations, and pays property taxes all over the country to help support local schools, police, fire protection in those localities.
What's the last thing a POOR person who cannot keep his zipper shut/legs together to avoid having kids THAT PERSON has NO way of decently feeding, clothing, housing, educating, and providing medical care for, did FOR the tax payers who are so burdened?
MOmaid,
I am happy you can readily determine that your $10,000 in taxes did not go to GE and that you know it went to the earned income credit. Myself, I paid 3 times that last year and I am pretty sure in all went down a federal toilet.
But, I think you believe that the poor is more of a drain on society than it really is. Remember, these poor people still pay taxes of all kinds. It's embedded in just about everything one buys. And remember, they pay payroll taxes also (which rich people don't pay, for the most part).
And, we have to remember, we need poor people. Who else would pick up the garbage, clean the nice offices we work in, work at gas stations, fast food joints, etc. They are there and will always be there. Many can and do work their way out of poverty and those that do will always be replaced by more poor.
A very few are the totally worthless that you describe. And, yes, they too do exist. But society keeps the poor where they are for the most part. It has to. A capitalist society simply cannot function without poor people.
All social welfare does is attempt to keep them minimally content enough to prevent them from rioting. And this is a necessary function as well. Constant civil strife and unrest does not do society any good.
The fact that this social welfare rewards the worthless as well as the worthy is unavoidable.
But to say that a rich mega-corporation should be entitled to the same is senseless. If GE can make $14 billion in profit on it's own, what does it need with another $3.5 billion from the public sector?
I'll make you a deal. I'll agree to reduce corporate taxes to 0%. But, corporations can no longer take money from the IRS. I'd bet the GE's of this world would scream bloody murder if we attempted to do this.
But, let's face it. A profitable corporation does not pay taxes. the simple fact that they made a profit means their customers paid those taxes for them when they bought their product. The cost of taxes is rolled into the cost of the product.
Doesn't that sound like a good deal?
Stan--evidently you skipped right over my first paragraph. I do NOT approve of the big corporations not paying anything in taxes. However, you yourself state that any taxes paid by a for-profit company is passed right along to the customer. That is accounting 101--that profit is figured AFTER all expenses, including retirement of debt, payroll, insurance (and its extra costs) materiel, TAXES, etc. (including property, sales, and income).
But you seem to feel it is perfectly OK for your and my tax income to pay for people who make REALLY lousy judgements (the biggest predictors for being poor are STILL not finishing school, and having too many babies too young!) and continuing to do so, with the ENCOURAGEMENT of our government.
It's not enough that we already have too many people on earth, but the fact that OUR government FINANCIALLY rewards that by increasing the amount of handouts EVERY time the individual REPEATS that unwise behavior really gripes my senses.
And if you want to downplay the COST of that as compared to the cost of GE not paying taxes, just google how much this government is spending on so called ''entitlements"--with NO incentive to the recipients of what they are NOT entitled to, to CHANGE their bad behavior.
And don't even get me STARTED on our government still paying subsidies/giving tax breaks to TOBACCO farmers/manufacturers. Which enables them to keep selling a harmful product to people who JUST MIGHT be 'incentivized' to quit if the cost were to rise to what that product REALLY costs. INCLUDING the cost for resulting health care for those who use it.
This country is FULL of tax code abominations, and 'scofflaws' and leeches.
I just find it interesting that you ONLY choose to be mad at ONE group while winking at the bad behavior of others.
Ron,
With regards to Microsoft, Gates was NOT in the top 1% when he started it. The people you point to are the exception to the rule. They built large companies from nothing and became wealthy in the process. The top 1% that have purchased our government are more of the Kock brothers group. Inherited their wealth, doing everything they can to increase it for the sake of that increase. Big Oil companies paying for climate studies that refute science, Big Drug companies that find ways to slightly alter drugs to extend patents, preventing less expensive generics from ever coming to market. Entire companies where the sole source of income is legal action over the patents they bought. Banks that pay no intrest on the money you deposit, charge huge intrest on the money the lend, and then want to charge their depositers for depositing their money. Banks again, taking billions in bailout money and still paying top dollar bonus money to their executives. The guy to tanked Lehman Brothers got 480 Million dollars! Bill Gates is a saint compared to him!
If you refuse to leave when ordered, don't get mad if you are arrested or maced. The OWS people are protesting the wrong places and people. The most they have done is annoy regular people.
The only people they should be protesting are goverment people. Left and right.
We (the American people as Republicans, Democrats and independents) need to promote a constitutional amendment banning all non governmental financing of elections.
That should be something the overwhelming majority of us can agree on.
Protest in DC by all means, but this problem is happening at all levels of our government, and is literally being paid for by these huge multinational corporations.
This can't be done without the American public coming together, put our other differences aside. The effort can't be led by politicians because their political opponents would then be funded by the corporations.
OWS and the Tea party started partly as a reaction to the corruption the current corporate election system has wrought . The reason the Banks not only were bailed out, but the reason they needed to be bailed out was because the banks have been able to rewrite the rules they do business under.
The reason we can spend trillions on wars, but only millions on cancer research, or education, or infrastructure or anything that would benefit those of us here at home, is because military contractors and oil companies (who don't want to spend their own money on security in risky nations) spend taxpayer money on electing people who will keep certain conflicts going that stand to improve their bottom lines.
Conservatives, liberals, and moderates are all being screwed by this problem.
YES. There needs to be set air time for elections (see debates) and a huge overall of campaign 'contributions' (see bribes) so that those elected aren't the ones taking the big "donations" from corporations.
Corporations and unions continue to be prohibited from making direct contributions to political campaigns.
Campaign bribes must be banned if we have any hope of addressing Americas most vexing problems.
New Zealand is a great example of one of the least corrupt governments on earth. That is because their government pays for their elections, bans 'contributions' and pay their representatives very well.
You get what you pay for, the American public does not pay for the candidates campaigns (compared to what the multinational corporations give) , and we get what we pay for.
Hi Peter,
The Supreme court has ruled that corporations and Unions can give unlimited amounts of money to promote any campaign as long as they don't coordinate with the campaigns directly.
Of course multinational corporations have much deeper pockets than the few remaining Unions left in the United States.
While I do support some level of campaign finance reform, I think it's a very tricky subject. I don't want to hinder free speech - if I want to support a candidate, I should be able to do so.
Also, if candidates can only use public money, this gives incumbents a huge advantage because they can use their office to campaign under the guise of their duty as public officials (ex: get a plant funded, then give a speech about the opening and how good it is for the community...it's not actually campaigning, but effectively it is).
Hi Ron,
I also like to contribute to candidates. I give a few hundred, corporations give a few million. Under this system, who wins? Not me or you ( Assuming your not a billionaire)
Incumbents already have the advantage of using their office to help them campaign.
Dan,
Incumbents already have an advantage now, but I worry it will become more pronounced in some cases if a challenger cannot spend a large amount of money. Having said that, it may be that incumbents almost always raise more cash, so my worry may be unfounded in 99% of the cases.
Like I said, I think changes are needed, I just haven't decided on the details yet...
Buddy Roemer is the only candidate that has been talking about the money that is corrupting our government, that I know of anyway.
Public money is the only good solution to this problem that I am aware of.
Ok so the government funds campaigns. What's to make sure the party in power doesn't play games with this?
Not to mention that this would kill what little chance remains of creating a viable third party.
Stop looking for government solutions to government-created problems.
Congress can't tamper with a Constitutional amendment.
The our system of government does not favor third parties anyway, which is why we never had one.
However, an amendment can be written to include all parties.
This is a problem with corporate financing of American elections, and the American peoples unwitting complacence in the face of this democracy threatening system.
Why should we stop trying to fix this problem, is it working for you?
Dan--while I agree with you on having all campaign financing financed by the government, HOW do you cope with the ability of NEWS outlets giving (to all intents and purposes) FREE campaign 'advertising' to the candidates they like? I watched the hatchet job that MSNBC did on Hillary, and the PUFF job that they did on Obama and was disgusted. Similarly, the way Fox reports on repub candidates. HOW do you make THAT fair?
(for that matter, how on earth do you get the news media to actually REPORT? I mean, allegations on Herman Cain--did ANY of the news programs actually do the work to find out if any were verifiable?
Ditto with Clinton?
Or the Duke 'rapists' (who, after months of being pilloried by the NEWS in addition to Al and Jesse) turned out not to have raped ANYONE?
They remind me of poorly made sausage--they don't care if some offal, or bone, or gristle, or whatever, goes into it as long as a LOT of sausage gets produced.
Media coverage is a different issue, it has always been a problem in all democracies.
My best advice is to do what we are doing. Go online and expose nonsense when you see it.
Mostly true, but the Republican Party was a third party until the Whigs went out of business. So while very difficult, it is not impossible for a new second party to emerge.
Dennis, that is true, the Whigs were in trouble which allowed for a third party to become the second.
In reality the US has many political parties, depending on where you are from.
I am not against third parties, but if the financing of our election system remains the same, the outcome will be the same no matter what parties emerge.
how did the government create this problem?
the courts rulings of corporate free speech (money) is causing most of this mess.( continuous campaigning and buying politicians)
Opinion polls show that the U.S. public greatly favors restrictions on campaign spending, and President Clinton's State of the Union Address called for Congress to "cap the cost of campaigns." Congress actually passed such a law in 1974, but soon after i ts passage an unlikely coalition of conservatives and civil libertarians filed suit, challenging the law as a violation of the First Amendment right to free speech. The subsequent U.S. Supreme Court decision Buckley vs. Valeo ruled that money is speech a nd not subject to restriction by the government. The court not only struck down limits on candidates' expenses, but also opened up a gaping loophole when it struck down limits on so-called "independent expenditures"-- better known as "soft money" -- spen t on behalf of a candidate rather than donated directly to the candidate. This single legal decision has shaped and distorted subsequent attempts at campaign finance reform.
so, apparently those without money have no free speech !!!
This is getting ridiculous. The 1st Amendment gives the right to protest, not the right to take over properties (see earlier article about taking over foreclosed houses) and the right to demand food and water for a demonstration. The cities have spent more than enough monetary resources catering to this clown-show.
So the main problem in America are protestors?
The middle class in the US is shrinking.
The US is running a massive corporate welfare system via TARP (remember the Tea Party?), the outsourcing of governmental tasks to corporations like Halliburton, Blackwater (Xe) etc. Why is the US making too big to fail banks bigger?
Why do you think for the first time since Vietnam American are protesting all across the country.
Are you suggesting that the economy under Obama is doing so well that there are enough jobs to go around?
Nah, the main problem are protesters who break the law.
Also, there are many fast food jobs hiring around here...oh wait even the uneducated unemployed think they're too good for that. My mistake.
What about the banks that have broken the law?
We are talking about trillions of dollars in fraud and waste due to the corruption of our electoral system.
One person (or entity) breaking the law doesn't give permission for others to.
Exactly, when individuals break the law in protest the law in enforced which is fine. When bankers break the law , the law is not enforced, not fine.
By all accounts, you're more concerned with a few people making a political statement and (maybe) committing a misdemeanor ... compared to the fraud perpetrated upon the public by Wall Street and the TBTF banks.
You're not the only one.
It is just easier to be pissed at a "hippie" than a monolithic bank?
I agree ruken I have been breaking the law way before the banks did why do they get to get away with it also. That is a stupid assumption
If I get bailed out of debt shouldnt everyone get bailed out. even smaller banks what about lehman brothers where is there bail out like goldman sachs and other investment banks.
the bail out has screwed this country.
The biggest problem with the bailout was that it was needed in the first place. If the banks didn't write the laws governing them, there would not have been a need to bail them out.
I get that once we got to that point that they did what they did. (TARP the least worst option)
The biggest problem was that the original problem (banks writing there own laws) has not been properly addressed. (Dodd Frank was does not go anywhere near far enough, though it is somewhat better than nothing.)
Why don't you people EVER mention Fannie, Freddie, Franklin Raines, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, the Community Reinvestment Act, the 40% of the Federal budget that is entitlements.....
Do ANY of these things share even a miniscule amount of culpability in the situation we find ourselves in today? I mean even a little bit?
Put every last thieving banker in prison tomorrow. Our dollar will still be worthless, our kids will still be stupid, our wages will still be declining because of inflation and pressure from immigrants, both legal and illegal, we will still be fighting a ten-year-old War to Nowhere....
But confidence will increase and Obama's approval ratings will jump because it will appear as though the government "did something," which is the only things the ostriches need to keep their heads comfortably in the sand.
Who are you people?
Fannie and Freddie had their hands in the cookie jar like the others, they were responsible for 20% of the sub prime mortgage mess.
If we put the bankers in jail who defrauded the American public, it will discourage bankers in the future from doing what was done this time.
Don't prosecute, and they will do it more because there is no risk for them.
These people are a joke. I drove past their camp in Tucson Saturday morning around 9:30 and didn't see a single one of them. No wonder they don't have jobs they're unemployable, unwashed and can't get out of bed at a decent hour.
It's the only thing these social parasites know. Gimme, gimme, gimme!
... much like the TBTF banks, privatized utility corporations and "free" global market corporations.
Again: the fact that (for reasons unknown) the detractors of OWS take a greater issue with the social "welfare" compared to corporate "welfare" is mind-numbing.
One more failed group of fools supported by the Left and the always bias media. Thanks for the comedy show George Soros/Moveon.org/DNC. And let's not forget the Flash Mob Divider in Chief Barrack Obama.
"Give us water, give us food..............." Gimme, gimme gimme in other words. Interesting. I've been to any number of Tea Party events and a few things stand out in stark contrast. No rapes, no drugs, no overnight "camping", no unauthorized structures built and no deaths or tons of debris and trash left. Oh - and all the Tea Party folks demanded was a smaller government that exists within the bounds set by the Constitution.
Apart from that the OWS and Tea Party folks and events are almost identical.
"Apart from" those few minor differences !!! That's funny stuff !
I think the biggest difference is in the organizational structure. OWS learned from the Tea Party that if you have a leadership, that leadership can be replaced with bought and paid for leaders, which pushed the Tea Party so far to the right, and deep into the Grover Norquist Pledge, preventing any sort of compromise in congress. The OWS movement is working very hard to have no centralized leadership, and is activly trying to avoid being pushed either left or right. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but OWS is not the Tea Party of the Left, they are something new.
Uh oh. Obama must have concluded his "Occupy" supporters have begun to hurt his reelection chances so he is throwing them under the bus.
Bush bailed the banks out (via TARP), Obama made sure no one got prosecuted. OWS is not fond of the political parties.
dan...
Most of the OWS folks will pull the Obama/Biden lever next November...come voting time they will again be "fond" of Mr. Obama.
If they even vote.
Many Americans understand that the system itself is broken.
Pulling a lever will only address minor issues that the corporations don't care about.
I do think that people should vote anyway, to at least address those non financial issues that people care about, hence the culture war.
People vote on social issues now, because that is all we can affect via voting.
As a Gay guy I had to stop voting Republican a while ago (It was Newt's shutting the government that changed my voting from R to D.) The fact of the matter is that both parties are in the pockets of multinational corporations, so when it comes to the BIG issues that face us, it hardly matters.
Bull@!$%#. Your disconnect with the OWS movement has been illustrated time and time again. You wouldn't have the slightest notion what OWS supports or doesn't.
YouJust...
Well...stupid old 'disconnected' me...how could I even pretend to fake the wisdom needed to comprehend the motives of the enlightened 'occupiers'.
I might as well stop reading newspapers and magazines...and no more internet news for sure...then I'll sell my television so I can stop watching the news at night. I guess none of those sources are really correctly informing me of anything.
Thanks so much for your help !!!
49 percent of Occutards polled supported the bank bailouts, which kinda whittles away that skinny stick of a leg they were standing on.
48 percent plan to vote for the Big Red O in 2012.
So they are in fact full of bovine excrement.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/49-of-ows-support-bailouts
A Wall Street Journal poll of 200 OWS hardly is a valid cross section of the movement or the core principals.
... unless you're willing to admit that the Westboro Baptist Church is a suitable representation of the American conservative movement.
Whataddya say, PRoS?
---
Tony -- your disconnect is evidenced by your incessant refusal to recognize that the f*cking problem isn't the f*cking protesting, rather it is what is being protested.
I see you troll here and I'm suspecting you're a banned rereg. Don't get too f*cking smug, buddy.
Whatever a "banned rereg" is, I simply do not know. This so-called protest is a mess...pure and simple. You and anyone else can defend it all you'd like and try to put some type of clean spin on it. But that does not make it less of a mess.
As to "what is being protested'...if the protesters' mixed and sloppy multiple messages need to be coddled and molded to fit any particular person's explanation of what they are trying to say, then what's the point ? And since when is inexcusable behavior a tool used to inform anyone of anything.
I am far from a tea party supporter, but at least their stated goal and message was clear, their protests were short and clean, and their protests did not degenerate into something out of a Fellini film or a Saturday Night Live skit.
And I don't know what a 'troll' is either...guess I'm not techno-savvy. But I do know 'smug' when I see it.
As for your repeated use of a purged "f*cking" to show emphasis, either write the word or skip the word...it reminds me of watching 'Goodfellas' on network television and having to suffer thru the "friggins" and the "forget yous"...makes the whole poocess pretty boring.
Now, now People, aren't we here to discuss the issues of our days?
"Give us food, give us water." Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee. Jesus, it sounds like a soundbite from 1920s Berlin and these clowns are waiting for their Fuehrer to show up. Or get re-elected, depending on your point of view.
What point of view could that be?
Conservatives, liberals and moderates get screwed together by our corporate funded election system.
Just because people who believe in political ideologies demand stupid things is no reason to waste the opportunity to try and address Americas most difficult problems.
Or we could keep pointing fingers at each other and fail as a country.
dan> A major problem with OWS is its lack of actual direction and the apparent lack of anything approaching realistic goals. Suggesting that their tuition should be forgiven (for unclear reasons) or that higher education should be "free" (completely disregarding the fact the educators will want to be compensated and somebody will have to pay) or claiming that the banks and/or capitalism are "evil" without suggesting a solution will get their movement nowhere.
OWS protestors describe how the corruption of our corporately financed electoral system affects them, but they don't know what the exact cause of their individuals issues are.
They see trillions spent on questionable wars, questionable bailouts, questionable tax cuts, but where is the money for investing in Americas future?
Where is the infrastructure money? Research money for disease? Money for education (especially primary education) Research money on alternative fuels, and for the next wave of technology?
We used to do all of this, but corporations located in other countries have other things they want the money to go to.
Yep... I agree with virtually all of you above.. (I speak of the "first" comments each thread cuz I am down the ladder in placement.)
What is scary to me are not so much the numbers of the occupiers themselves... they haven't come up with one intelligent agenda in the four months they've been tootin' around with their Gimme Gimme Gimme "philosophy" (if one can dignify their attitudes with that word) .... they are just silly and deserve to be arrested and cleared off public property. What is scary are people who post here supporting them... who simply have not done their homework. Our educations system nation-wide is going down the tubes.
The occupiers obstruct women who might be alone, who might have wanted to take their kidlets to the park on a nice day; these occupiers illegitimately block men and women... all citizens regardless race creed color or preferences from their rights and their taxes-paid parks, streets, sidewalks, homes....
These are useless bums, hobos, and the barely functionally literate goof-offs of humanity who have drifted themselves beyond the Pale and are not worth productive citizens' time of day. And yes being a productive citizen does include handicapped or disabled workers who do the best they can to support themselves. It includes folks who have enough self-integrity to be willing to take jobs others might think are beneath them...
... and those folks are demonstrating the American way... not the hobos and free-riders, nor sneakers over our borders taking our work away from us.
It's those who live the American way I will knock myself out to help however I can during these bad times.
NOT THE OCCUPIERS OCCUPIED WITH ROBBING US.
And that is what they are doing, pure and simple.
"NOT THE OCCUPIERS OCCUPIED WITH ROBBING US. And that is what they are doing, pure and simple."
Compared to the amount of money Goldman Sacks stole from unsuspecting American taxpayers and investors, it literally is nothing
Dan...
Goldman Sucks (no typo) did not steal from anyone. They used the existing laws to their advantage. Oh, and guess what, EVERYONE, individuals and corporations alike do the same thing.
What has me spun up is the continual use of former GS employees inhabiting positions of power in Government. What has me spun up is the whoring the politicians do to get elected/re-elected. What has me spun up is the continual buying of votes by politicians giving tax dollars away to those who don't contribute, but vote. What has me spun up is politicians (LAWYERS for the most part) writing the laws that they prosecute or defend others for.
What has me spun up is a bunch of people with no real purpose, other than to demand that others pay for their way in life.
Exactly right.
"What has me spun up is a bunch of people with no real purpose, other than to demand that others pay for their way in life."
Goldman was given billions of dollars to prop up their pyramid scheme.
This is possible because they paid of the candidates elections. They own the system, they are the system.
The only individuals who are in the position to use the law to their advantage are the ones who run the banks and corporations. That's because they wrote the laws for themselves.
I dont believe I would shed a tear if they did not bail these fools out any of them, they all knew what they were doing trying to make a quick buck and got caught up in there scheme to big to fail MY A$$.
The banks get bailed out and then Crap on the people that bailed them out. They will not even go with government plans from HUD
You people who are against the OWS are just bleach blond cheerleaders for the rich, saying " Take my
money"Take my children for more phony wars" Take my jobs and future of America away". Because rich
people are better,smarter and good looking and deserve what they steal from "stupid" Americans.
Thank You
Regarding the wars, as the spouse of an AF officer, I can assure you that the wars are very real.
I don't support OWS because they do not speak for me. I think they are a bunch of whiners.
They don't speak for me either...I belong to the 53%...federal income taxpayers !
But our politicians are bought by the 1% and elected by the 47%...non-federal income tax payers.
Ha, sorry Jnessler, I'm definitely not rich, work a real job, and pay taxes (no I don't have a minimum wage job that allows me to pay 0 taxes), yet I highly disagree with the bums protesting. So there were institutions that seem like they made out like bandits, and in some cases it was true. However it still isn't right to try to 'equalize' things by force. That kind of action would make things far worse and if the protesters think they were slighted, just try 'redistribution' by force, and then they will see how bad things can really be!
Say it with me, Phil: It's not about redistribution. It is about ensuring political equatability.
Holy Cow are you admitting you steal from others is that what your saying thanks for
Jnessler--'take my children for your wars"???
You DO know that it has been a GENERATION since we have had a military DRAFT?
@jnessler #12
aaaaand your point is, ugly?
While I do admit I'm far from handsome, I still stand firm on my assertion that some people are just Cheerleaders for the rich no matter what harm they would do to America. And MOmaid, I meant to say willing send their children to phony wars. Just as Pagans would sacrifice their children to their gods, to insure good harvests. And are waiting impatiently for a strong leader like Hitler or Mussolini to follow and give their body and soul and get rid of this "Foolish Democracy" and glorify the rich and powerful.
give them a job
10 years hard labor
Give them a bath first
Fire hose guns on full blast!
Good choice of screen name, dumbass
Isn't this movement over yet?? Have they accomplished anything ecxcept taking dumps in parks and getting arrested?
Oh, that's what the "movement" was about, "Bowel Movements"!
OWS blamed banks for college tuitions going up. OWS blamed the banks for them taking loans for a worthless college degree that finds them unemployed and having the nerve of expecting them to pay it back. OWS blame banks for being forced to give out loans to people who can't afford them, and forcing some banks to take bail-out $. So it stands to reason it's the bank's fault that Fanny and Freddy are exempt from the Dodd/Frank regulations.
It's not the college's fault tuitions have gone up 511% since 2000.
It's not the student's fault for going into massive debt before they even have a job.
It's not a few fat cat politicians who stood to gain of of the housing bubble, that has any blame, nooo.
It's not big, greedy, heavy handed government tinkering with the markets and making more regulations as a "solution" the the problems they created and now make worse and don't correct.
If they haven't accomplished anything yet, then I am curios why the propaganda minster of the GOP, who at the GOP governors meeting said he was scared of them. Anyone wonder about that? Is it because their messages are being heard by some?
They did bring to attention the insider trading that Congress does, but they don't go to jail for that, just Martha Stewart and a few others go to jail. They are also demanding an investiagtion into the banks and Wall St that caused this economic mess. But that message is being hid from a lot of people.
I don't agree with the protestors taking over private property, but if it is a vacant house, caused by mortage fraud, by the banks, then why not. Illegal yes, but what the banks did to people's 401K's, pensions, etc is also Illegal. But some people can't realize or see that.
Sure don’t want these folks setting up camp in the nearby park, I'd be afraid too..
Sally.... please tell me exactly what the "banks" did to my 401k, or to pensions(?) and what is or was illegal?
Oh.. and a source for the person being "scared" of OWS. Was he or she just fearful for his/her safety among the unruly crowd?
XD - Hope you're not waiting for any facts, that may be a long wait.
XDM9mm, ask the people who lost their 401K's, because those institutions (banks) invested those funds in worthless over priced mortages. That is a fact. Research it. As to your own 401K, if it didn't get touched, you are very lucky. IMO, investing in a 401K is risky. There are better ways to invest your money.
Sally...
The way 401k's have been designed, the income tax advantage of sending a percentage of pay directly into a 401k is pretty tough to ignore. Yes, there may be better investments, but the investment is made with 'after'tax' contributions.
Maybe the OWS people need training to become productive members of society. I am sure with a few years of intensive training a small percentage of them could be trained to clean toilets. Then they may feel better about themselves.
Guessing after a few days training they could learn to use toilets.
oh what a joke...
I really hope slime like you are the first to fall when SHTF.
I know a person who just graduated from UC Berkeley with a degree in Philosophy. He is complaining that he can't find a job and has a big student loan. I couldn't keep myself from laughing. The image of the scene in History of the World Part 1 jumped into my head.
Lady at the Unemployment window(Bea Arthur) Talking to Mel Brooks.
Bea----"Occupation?"
Mel ----"Standup Philosopher"
Bea----"Oh. Bull S!t Artist"
Yep I think that she got it right. Now what kind of job is available for a Bull Sh!t Artist???
Actually, I saw a photo over the weekend of some ladies (in India) drying cow dung in the sun. They use it for heating and cooking fires.
Could this qualify as a BS artist?
Ha! This is funny but true, I have no clue why people go get worthless college degrees in useless subjects that can't possibly attain a marketable skill for them. Who needs a 'basketweaver'?
Phil... last I heard, the NBA is desperate for some with that skill
To GREG, BRANDON and TIM,
From an old Veteran, Thank You all for the much needed donations to the groups you've selected.
To the posters denigrating their contributions:
Give it a rest. They're doing a lot more than most and should be getting praise for what they do. Before you lambast them, look in your own checkbooks and see how much YOU'VE given to any organization. When you've done that, ask the POLITICIANS who are creating the need for these organizations to exist how much they've given of their OWN money... not taxpayer money, but their own to fix the problems they have created.
DAMN YOU MSN.... This got posted to the wrong place.. I guess I had too many pages open
Paid right wing internet shill?
@ Sicken Tired
dude is that your sisters you're breeding with there? geez how did y'all get past uncle daddy?
Every post about Occupy just gets filled with the views of narrow-minded simpletons telling the protesters to get a job and trolls just being trolls. It really gets boring to read or discuss some of the "opinions" that get posted in this comment section.
I really hope the civilized participants of this movement, who shockingly get very little media coverage, get their act together and find a way to broaden its reach. Once more average Americans affected by the same issues at the root of the current protesters' anger take up this cause then maybe, just maybe, all you simpletons blindly discrediting this movement might begin to take it seriously
The OWS crowd already gets far more media coverage than they deserve. On the other hand, they are amusing and we all need a good laugh every once and a while.
Exactly, the crazies in every Occupy crowd get way more coverage than they deserve. The ones who might actually be coherent and have something useful to say are avoided by the media as if they were the plague
Hey Peter, I didn't have to turn on the T.V. for a laugh today. All I had to do is read a few of Skeets posts! One less device on in the house and with the money I saved I can give more hand outs to OWS! A couple more days like this and some one is going to get their tuition forgiving!
Wait! If I do that who is going to pay mine? Maybe I should default on it and when OWS is done they can help me with my legal bills!
"Every post about Occupy just gets filled with the views of narrow-minded simpletons telling the protesters to get a job and trolls just being trolls."
I guess you're a combination of the two. Not quite sure, but in any event you've proven my point
The only point you have proven is that you are exactly what you claim every one with an opinion that does not match yours is!
"YES MASTER WE HEAR AND WILL OBEY"
So, Butthole Surfer, KISS MY (_!_)
Peter17> The problem is their destruction of public and private property etc etc etc is not providing quite as many laughs as it did initially. Thirty tons of trash to be rounded up in LA alone and the need (?) to call out HazMat to dispose of the urine-filled bottles isn't quite as hilarious as some of their initial comments about their "cause" and its purpose were.
Rick - the cases you cite are certainly nothing to laugh at.
Peter...
This past weekend one of the homeless fellows at the Hartford, Connecticut protest site tried to rape a female protester. His mission was interrupted by other protesters, who chased him out of the encampment and into the streets...free to roam around while awaiting his next attempted rape.
As a nation, we taxpayers have now be ordered to cough up over $15 million...and counting...for the costs of safety and sanitation in cleaning up the OWS mess. Next come the court costs for dealing with the thousands of deserved arrests.
All paid for by you and by me.
Ron-1861300
'The 1% also gave us great companies such as Microsoft, Google, IBM, Boeing, Ford, etc. that pay well and have allowed hundreds of thousands of their employees to become millionaires over the decades.'
People are really this ignorant? Ron, have you never heard of Monsanto? Get educated.
Silicon Valley was founded on SMALL business, Main Street all the way and obviously you missed it.
Let's take Boeing, a true 1%'r corporation in our modern times. Union busting on the Murdoch International Plan, sending jobs to the South where they've just screwed the family farmers and paved the way for AgriCORPS to take their land for free with Tax Rebates, no doubt. Nothing against the South but being screwed by the Boss Hog is accepted heirarchy. I'm sure Mobile has all the culture of Seattle and an educated work pool (sic). Do you really want people making $8.50 an hour building the plane you'll be flying in? That's just phase one. WA would have made a huge fuss over outsourcing so phase two is move it to the south where people are used to losing minimum wage jobs and nobody will notice, or say a word when they outsource those jobs overseas. Book Ron for the 1st flight.
Ford - you buy mexican made cars now and don't even get a tax benefit or a dime in import taxes. Yeah, NAFTA's really working for us. Millions of jobs gone from the US. Sell Ron a Mexican Car at your nearest USA Ford Dealership and charge him twice the amount the car sells for anywhere else in the world.
Google - you can't get a job there unless you a)have a four year sciences degree, and b)are at the top of your class at Stanford, Berkeley, etc. Remember, the persons who founded this company were not the 99% of their own country. Their hiring policy is completely foreign. They come from the top 10% in India and they outsource what they can't hire from the EXPENSIVE private colleges. Big abusers of the HB-1 Visa program, as are our own School Districts. Really?! That 1%'r corporation, that school district, they can't find 1 person in the US to do job 'X' so they need to hire from overseas. Well sure! Up until 2010 you couldn't find an college educated american willing to work for Indian or Chinese wages, 12 hours a day for 'salary' no overtime, check your credit, check your background, check your blood and treated like a serf. Now, you're a bum if you don't take the job. That is, if it hasn't already been outsourced, or combined into one job and one person does the work of 2 or 3. We know it pays half of what it did before NAFTA and HB-1, that's guaranteed. Yes, I had heard productivity has increased in the US......
Microsoft - Read the book Blink, understand that and we can be spared further posts that bow down to the ones they serve. Ron will get laid off, sooner or later.
American American ----- NAFTA destoyed the factoryjobs here look at the midwesy or upstate NY the factories juat took off 2 Mexico after the agreement was signed.BO runs around in a bus made in Canada to tout his job plan.Solis the Sect of Labor now has a Ford , you guessed it made in Canada!!howeever 4 the OWS plz plz read i implore you , Throw them all out -----by Peter Schweizer. when i was w/the police department we used 2 have a saying ----" yoo cant make this sh@t up" just when we thpught we saw it all, something would top it.
as 4 former Speaker Pelosi i used 2 refer 2 you as a communist.i apologize whole heartedly .after reading the above book , you are the ULTIMATE CAPITILIST. what was the term used in the 1800's robber baron.thats your name and as you stated its LEGlAL. why, becuase you and your cohorts made it legal 4 those in WASHINGTON BS. the rest of us would be in jail. also i will never buy a Heinz product again. read the exploits of Kerry and his wife.
The OWS movement is for the most part a movement of desperate people trying to save their lives and the US economy from complete and utter failure. They are attempting to exercise one of the few freedoms and powers they have left, and even that is being taken from them. We no longer live in a democracy, and people are truly frightened, and the desperation is growing. The reason they are having difficulty focusing their movement is because there is so much wrong with the system, it hard to know where to begin. Also, the powers that be (including the media) are very busy putting them down at every turn and are effectively persuading people to think the worst of them instead of seeing the justification for the movement. Right now, OWS people are the only people I see who are at least trying to save our country. However, I truly fear their efforts will be in vain, and things will continue as they are until the Empire falls. Also, the reason there is such division in the country is that even among the 99%, we are almost 50/50, with half functioning fairly well and the other half like the kitten hanging on by its claws but inevitably sliding down. Among the 1%, there have been a few brave and honorable souls who have spoken out saying that the system is unfair and should be changed. If only the politicians and the rest of the 1% would join them. Maybe they would if more of the 99% would support them as well. What's the only way the 99% can do that? Well, by voting and, Oh yeah, by protesting. Do you know of another power we supposedly still have?
The OWS movement just wants a free ride. Go ahead and tax he crap out of corporations. They will go ahead and move to China and there will be no jobs. We already have the highest corporate tax in the world and that is part of whats killing the economy. The Financial Crisis was planned 15 years ago and the CRA Lawsuit lite the fuse for the Mortgage Meltdown. Look to the facts of what caused this. CRA Lawsuit, Bill Clinton and Free Trade with China. Giving our Long Beach Naval Base to China for a Free Trade Zone so Wal Marts trucks do not have to pull on union docks and unload Chinese ships. Bill forcing Fannie and Freddie to buy every loan the banks made after the CRA Lawsuit that forced them into making home loans to unqualified borrowers. Fannie and Freddie 'bundling' these crappy loans and selling them to AIG and other investors. Google the 'CRA Lawsuit' and see who lite the fuse that screwed millions of American workers and home owners.