Texas mom shoots kids, self after welfare standoff

LAREDO, Texas -- A mother who had been denied welfare benefits shot her two children and then killed herself after a seven-hour standoff at a government social services office in Laredo, Texas, police said.

"The children are alive, but they are in critical condition," Laredo police investigator Joe Baeza told KGNS-TV, an NBC affiliate in Laredo on Tuesday.

The children, a 10-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl, were unconscious when taken from the scene, he said. Their names, along with the name of the woman, were not released by police.

The standoff began around 5 p.m. Monday afternoon. Baeza said the woman was speaking with two employees when she pulled out a gun and said she wanted to speak to a supervisor. When the supervisor arrived, he persuaded her to let the employees go in exchange for keeping him.

"He told the woman he would remain with her," Baeza said, adding "He acted quite courageously."

Read KGNS's coverage: Standoff shootings update by Laredo police investigator Baeza

Meanwhile, about 25 other people in the building were moved to safety, police said.

Police negotiators stayed on the phone with the woman throughout the evening, but she kept hanging up, Baez said. She let the supervisor go unharmed around 7:45 p.m., but stayed inside the office with her children. After hanging up the phone around 11:45 p.m., police heard three shots, and a SWAT team entered the building. Inside, they found her body and her two wounded children.

The 38-year-old woman had recently moved to the area from Zanesville, Ohio, east of Columbus, Baeza said. She told negotiators about a litany of complaints against state and federal government agencies. It sounded like she had been denied services several months ago, Baeza said, but it wasn't clear what specifically triggered Monday's standoff.

"This wasn't like a knee-jerk reaction," Baeza said, adding that the woman felt she was owed restitution of some sort.

"The overall understanding is that this was more than just a one-issue crisis," he told KGNS-TV.

This article includes reporting from NBC station KGNS in Laredo and The Associated Press.

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Comment author avatarVivian,Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

More victims of OBAMAUNISM and the food stamp presidency

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:41 PM EST

I hope the children make it through this disaster! Vivian I agree with you whole hardheartedly, Obama and his nanny state policies are going to drive this country under more and more people feel they are owed something by the Govt. I have had to use food stamps once or twice in my lifetime but that was a stop gap measure, as soon as I could I dropped them. People need to do whatever it takes to take care of themselves. Today's society is too damn lazy to do that, if it requires working two jobs then they head to the welfare office.

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST

I agree that too many people feel they are entitled to many things, but how can you pin this on Obama? This sort of attitude does not come out of the short years he has been president. Women having babies for welfare checks have been around for DECADES. First thing we need to do is start drug testing these people. Mandatory birth control if you already have two kids and have shown no intent to provide for them on your own.

  • 9 votes
#1.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:53 PM EST

As usual, people who complain about Obama no nothing about the history of welfare.. Why don't you look it up and educate yourself.

  • 9 votes
#1.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:09 PM EST

Last I checked, food stamps were around long before this presidency... Pretty sure this isn't Obama's fault...

  • 12 votes
#1.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:11 PM EST

greycloud57, read your post out loud to hear what a hypocrite sounds like. First you blast this woman for trying to get help from welfare. Then you go on to say that YOU have used food stamps once or twice as a stopgap measure, just to get by till you got back on your feet. (Was that while Obama was in office, by the way? Or Bush? Be careful who you blame, my dear.) And that "People need to do whatever it takes to take care of themselves." How do you know that she didn't just need some temporary help until SHE got back on her feet. What would have happened to YOU if you had been refused that help? Should anybody give a damn about you? Shouldn't YOU have done "anything it takes" to avoid asking for food stamps? (What would that be, I wonder. In this economy, you can't BUY a job, unemployment has run out, savings are gone...what's left? Prostitution? Drug-dealing? Armed robbery?)

Yes, I think it was just your opportunity for an Obama rant same as Vivian, but in the off chance you really feel this way about someone who needed help, be a little more careful next time not to reveal that you are exactly the same as the person you're slamming.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:37 PM EST

Mindy you are dead on correct! The abuse of food stamps and the welfare program has been going on forever.... LONG before Obama was even born! I'm not happy with his presidency and can't wait for him to be out of office but I refuse to blame him for something that is not his fault. Grow up and take your blinders off people!

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:05 PM EST

I have had to use food stamps once or twice in my lifetime but that was a stop gap measure, as soon as I could I dropped them.

Oh, please. You took handouts. That's Obamunism. YOu should have gotten a job, not resorted to communism.

  • 3 votes
#1.7 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:06 PM EST

This is what it is coming to. The entitlement mentality is now resorting to violence because we can no longer foot the bill. Meanwhile we continue to spend like there is no limit and bail out every crook on the planet. Would anyone care to guess what is in our future?

  • 1 vote
#1.8 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:45 PM EST

It's sad that whenever I read comments for an article about murder or murder/suicide it always turns into a debate about Obama, gun control, healthcare or gov't aid.

Why is no one looking at the real cause of these tragedies?:

Too many of these people thought that death and oblivion were better options for their children than living with an ex-spouse, a relative, in a foster home, etc. Whether or not this woman felt entitled to welfare should have nothing to do with the outcome for her children. She was mad at someone or something so she thought she'd get her point across by taking it out on her children! These murderers only think of themselves, so why are we glorifying them by turning them into subjects of political controversy???

This is the second article today that I've seen of this nature. I am pretty sure it's the fourth or fifth similar story in only a week's time. Add to this the recent articles about parents who claim their children are missing to cover up their murder/accidental death and fathers/mothers who shoot their ex-spouse because of a nasty custody battle and the pattern should be more simple than socio-economic issues or politics.

Changing welfare or gun control or healthcare isn't going to stop these cases. It's the parents themselves that need to be put in check. Not the politicians!

  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:50 PM EST

The supervisor is an absolute COWARD not a hero. Those two children were hostages and noone secured their release before leaving that building. They are not responsible for the actions of their mother and did not deserve to be disregarded and left in danger with someone brandishing a weapon and obviously unstable. So the issue is not the foodstamps rather the fact that two children were shot and nobody cared about them. Why did he leave and get praised as a hero with them still there? Those children will have to survive their physical injuries and then the emotional for the rest of their lives.

    #1.10 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 6:01 AM EST
    Reply

    What the hell is wrong with people? Attempting a double-murder and then suicide because of losing welfare benefits?

    Is that what people used to do before welfare existed?

    • 4 votes
    Reply#3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST

    People used to work but everyone has become so stingy that nothing falls the the cracks of the rich floor boards for the poor and ignorant. Life has become bottom line profits by any means necessary.. "

    Root, hog or die"

    • 3 votes
    #3.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:00 PM EST

    People used to die of starvation and malnutrition... Or they were actually able to get someone to hire them... If no one can get hired, they can't get money, they cant buy food, they die... Thats what happens.

    • 9 votes
    #3.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:19 PM EST

    @Becca: So why didn't she sell the gun and buy some food? Is murder/suicide really a viable option these days?

    • 1 vote
    #3.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:42 PM EST

    @ Matt to her maybe the kids and her living on the streets vs help from her state. Maybe there were no choices in her head left. You DONT raise 2 kids that long and just kill them for no good reason. She had to be facing a choice I PRAY no one else needs to face.

    And Oprah Winfreys sleep warm, full and safe in her homes. That is the real shame in humanity. Where most starve or living on the streets, those who own multi billion dollars give to Africa while right here people are starving.

    • 4 votes
    #3.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:07 PM EST

    youareabully

    @ Matt to her maybe the kids and her living on the streets vs help from her state. Maybe there were no choices in her head left. You DONT raise 2 kids that long and just kill them for no good reason. She had to be facing a choice I PRAY no one else needs to face.

    This isn't a Meryl Streep film. No one forced this woman to make a choice for her kids between certain death or living in a work camp. Turning your children over to a relative, friend or even the gov't isn't a worse alternative than death. In today's world death shouldn't be an option for innocent children at all. I can't see any "good reason" for making this decision. Only pure selfishness!

    Her head was clear enough to hold those people hostage, so she couldn't be that nuts. She knew how it was going to end and she brought her kids into it anyway. Any parent that views a child as a possession to dispose of as they see fit does not deserve any sympathy or understanding.


    • 2 votes
    #3.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 8:00 PM EST

    agreed Lolly BUT you tell me, drama set in full because this is real.....Faced with watching your kid get beaten, then rapped and then a gun to their heads, if you knew this was what would happen I am sorry I WOULD take my kids with me. 1st I would make sure they were DEAD then I would allow myself the same fate.

    I do find it interesting that you think taking hostages is not being nuts, but I do get what you are saying, I in no way shape or form think taking out the innocent is ok, I know the above drama might not happen here in the USA but nonetheless, the only point I was trying to make is in some peoples mind its like that. Its the worst thing you can do and yet the best. I dont know Lolly, we are of sound minds (at least I think we are hehe) Never know where she came from.

    Hate these newsvines that give you part of the drama and let us all speculate till we are blue in the face.

      #3.6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 9:06 PM EST
      Reply

      People are losing it out there plain & simple

      • 5 votes
      Reply#4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:49 PM EST

      I'd like to know why she was denied welfare. This woman was obviously unbalanced and stressed out. What brought her to this point? I remember being down and out and going to the welfare department just one time. I was denied because my $149 a week in unemployment exceeded their income limit. I never applied or asked for help again. The women there were horrible. I am female, and even though they new from the outset I made too much money they made me bring in every document imaginable before they told me I made too much. They were nosy and they were mean to me. They were rude and acted like it was their money. I have no trouble imagining that those types of horrible people helped drive this woman over the edge.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:50 PM EST

      I agree with you why was she denied and if at this point she was so unstable you don't get that way overnight. The state people should have flagged her and a social worker called in. But these states just don't do squat about it.

      • 4 votes
      #5.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:09 PM EST

      It was their money. They have a job and pay taxes that go to welfare

        #5.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:32 PM EST

        12345anon......I try not to be a bully but you are a real POS. Just because you are down and out doesn't mean you HAVE NOT PAID INTO THE SYSTEM!!!! What happens to all the years you do pay? That is null and void because you don't pay into it currently???

        Oh you make my skin crawl....people like you JUDGING OTHERS on how they are going to get your hard earned money.... HA! Look at your government, I would gladly give $10.00 to a mom raising kids, than a politician needing it for a party. Sheeeze.....judge others like that you POS......... whom ever is your judge, I hope judgement day for you is PAINFUL!

        • 3 votes
        #5.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:13 PM EST
        Reply
        Comment author avatargreycloud57Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

        Collapse me or not I don't care, she was denied because she wasn't an illegal alien.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:58 PM EST

        You're an idiot. Illegals don't get benefits. I know. I work at the welfare dept.

        • 5 votes
        #6.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:11 PM EST

        CZMiller........Depends on what state, I know for a fact that California gives it to them as there are a few of my Latino wifes cousins and aunts and uncles here illegally and they receive them and food stamps.

        • 5 votes
        #6.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:13 PM EST

        I AM in California. Illegals don't get benefits. Their citizen children are eligible, but not the illegals.

        • 4 votes
        #6.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:17 PM EST

        CZMiller, I consider not having to pay taxes a benefit. Meanwhile I'm paying taxes to put illegal alien kids through public school - who does that benefit? Oh yeah, the illegal aliens, so there's another perk.

        • 5 votes
        #6.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:19 PM EST

        those "illegal kids" are probably US citizens, bozo. I don't condone giving anyone a free ride and certainly NOT illegal persons. but the fact that the first person said such a stupid misinformed statement, i had to speak up.

        • 3 votes
        #6.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:23 PM EST

        CZ then please explain how a family of three is receiving $385 in food stamps seeing as the parents werent born here?

        • 2 votes
        #6.6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:25 PM EST

        If it's an illegal mother and illegal father, a citizen child, the maximum Food Stamp benefit for one person is $200. So one of the parents must be legal.

        And if you know of illegals, why aren't you turning them in???? You complain about them and then help to cover them up.

        • 2 votes
        #6.7 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:28 PM EST

        I have reported the fraud, but the person I talked to I assume in Sacramento didn't seem to care. The report was filed in Jan. this year.

        • 4 votes
        #6.8 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:40 PM EST

        My neighbor's housekeeper has a three-bedroom condo completely subsidized by the CA State Welfare System, yes, that's what I said, a three-bedroom condo completely subsidized by the CA State Welfare System!!!! She also has three kids on welfare also.

        She has asked my neighbor to pay her in cash ($10/hr.- five days a week -10 hours a day) so she does not have to report her income. It irks me to no end, but that's what's happening everywhere in this country. How do you put a stop to the ripping-off of the U.S. welfare system?

        Hopefully someone reading this will have THE answer!!! Anybody????

        • 3 votes
        #6.9 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:23 PM EST

        Here's another one for you.

        My boss who is female makes close to $100 grand a year. She has two daughters both over the age of 21. Both daughters have three illegitimate children EACH and they are ALL living together and collecting welfare.

        So what's the answer folks?

        • 2 votes
        #6.10 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:35 PM EST

        I have an answer. If they are not 100% disabled and they are recieving welfare, they should be required to perform community service. No kids in the home or older kids, 40 hours a week. There are plenty of volunteer opportunities. Reading to kids in the hospital, volunteering at schools, picking up trash on the side of the road, park maintenence, soup kitchens to name just a few. Parents with children can do it also. Parents can provide childcare for other parents who are volunteering outside the home. Now they would be earning their keep and benefiting society.

        • 4 votes
        #6.11 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:57 PM EST

        I am all for community service, but if they are doing it 40 hours a week, how are they ever going to find a paying job?

        • 2 votes
        #6.12 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:39 PM EST

        Someday we're not going to classify people's rights to education, or food, or housing, or medical care based on what geographical location they were born in. We will find a global balance between civil rights and social/economic rights. And we will then be able to say that we have evolved from these archaic times. Optimistically, anyway.

        • 1 vote
        #6.13 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:53 PM EST
        Reply

        This is the Repuke plan for the poor.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#7 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:59 PM EST

        I guess it really sucks to be poor? To bad the kids lived, now we have to pay for their heathcare! SARCASM

        99% When you have nothing to lose. YOU have nothing to lose.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#8 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:00 PM EST

        I am absolutely stunned by the ignorant & out-of-touch comments here. This is a terrible tragedy. Having worked with the "least" among us, I can relate to the desperation this woman must have felt at being unable to provide for her children.

        To me, this is an excellent example of why we can't leave charity up to individuals. Why didn't members in her community extend a helping hand before desperation drove her to the conclusion that murder-suicide was the only way out?!?! It was all to easy for them to turn a blind eye to her plight, something SOME people are all too willing to do on a daily basis & instead look for stupid reasons why those needing a hand up don't deserve it, something you heartless commenters have made abundantly clear. Shame on you. I frankly don't know how you look at yourselves in the mirror as you advocate draconian cuts to the safety nets that are so clearly needed because we sure can't depend on the likes of you to help those in real need. I pray each of you will find a moral compass . . . and your souls.

        • 15 votes
        Reply#9 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:01 PM EST

        Why didn't members in her community extend a helping hand before desperation drove her to the conclusion that murder-suicide was the only way out?

        Maybe because she was a gun-waving whackjob?

        Look, she shot her kids. Killing yourself is one thing, but trying to take out innocent children along with you isn't "a way out". She's gone, the kids are better off without someone who's willing to shoot them over not getting enough handouts.

        • 1 vote
        #9.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:16 PM EST

        Because churches, food banks, etc., are strained to the max. They cannot give anymore. They have nothing to give. In Indiana, they are always begging for money, food, clothes, etc.

        • 4 votes
        #9.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:01 PM EST

        Best post on here, Idaho!

        UDunnoBro; you are obviously one of those ones that Idaho spoke of as needing to "find a moral compass...and your soul" And nothing you said answered the question you cut and pasted from Idaho. She was driven into being a "gun-waving whackjob" when nobody would help her. From the tone of your post, you obviously don't have kids. On my own, I could survive, even if that meant becoming a thief. But being unable to provide for my kids would put me over the edge too. I could never kill them, but I can see myself driven to the point of giving them up if that's what it took to feed them. I could never allow a mother to get that desperate if I had any way at all of helping her.

        • 3 votes
        #9.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:12 PM EST

        Excellent post Idaho!

        • 1 vote
        #9.4 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 4:04 AM EST
        Reply

        @ Idaho-2019515.....BRAVO..!!

        • 5 votes
        Reply#10 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:10 PM EST

        More and more of these Dust Bowl/Great Depression stories coming almost daily. The Federal Government ought to be ashamed of itself. The Republican economy killers are to blame.

        • 4 votes
        Reply#11 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:12 PM EST

        Why can't these nutjobs shoot themselves first instead of the kids?

          Reply#12 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:13 PM EST

          are you serious right now? this is ridiculous. How about they not shoot anybody, themselves, or the kids...

            #12.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:54 PM EST

            This question proves you have nothing between your ears. But if I had to answer it: ..because it would be too difficult to shoot the kids after having shot yourself!

              #12.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:26 PM EST
              Reply

              Neither Reagan, Clinton, Both Bushes, or Obama caused this economy. Greed did! This is tragic but only the beginning signs of panes to come. Rather you believe in a God or not or just enjoy reading the Bible for the many stories available, WE all have to admit the words written in Matthew CHapter 24 is happening today.

              On a lighter note you can also say the technology written in Star Trek 40 years ago is coming into existence today as well.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#13 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:16 PM EST

              More of the gimmee generation.

                Reply#15 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:45 PM EST

                I would have to agree that greed did cause the economic downfall we are in. It is unfortunate that it drives people to this point,, There needs to be a solution and soon or else more things like this will occur.

                  Reply#16 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:17 PM EST

                  And once again our population thins. This seems to be a daily occurrance. These kids don't have a chance and their parents lose all hope to continue life. I do hope there is family somewhere or a good home to some how turn these kids lifes around.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#17 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:18 PM EST

                  More people having kids they can't afford then blame the government for not giving them hard working tax payer money to them to sit on their butts.

                  If she didn't have any money how did she buy a gun? If she already had it and needed money why didn't she sell the gun?

                  My wife and I waited to have children until we were sure what we wanted to do with our careers. We then bought a house. Then we started on a family. We set a budget, lived within our means and saved some of our money.

                  That way when I lost my job in 2003 we were okay financially. How? We had been paying ahead on the mortgage and were six months ahead on payments. We cut back, didn't eat out, didn't go to movies, only bought what we needed. And since we don't smoke or do drugs and rarely have a drink we weren't throwing money away on those kinds of things.

                  More importantly the Workforce center in central Texas instead of extending unemployment benefits to me paid for me to attend school and learn another skill. They made sure I got off my butt and did something instead of sitting around collecting money.

                  Maybe this lady from Ohio that just moved to Texas didn't give Texas enough of a chance to help her.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#18 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:39 PM EST

                  You really put yourself up on quite the pedestal. I find it so disheartening when people use their own experiences to justify looking down on others. You don't know anything about what other people are going through - What skills they did or did not acquire growing up, the resources they are aware of or have access to, or the psychological/sociological issues they are dealing with. You'd have alot more to be proud of if you could look at your own successes and still have empathy and compassion for those who have not been able to achieve them.

                  • 2 votes
                  #18.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:25 PM EST

                  Love the response! So true if you want to think of yourself all high and mighty go for it but at the end of the day even he admits he had to take money from Texas to make it. I never had that problem when I lost my job well quit actually I had another job the next week I never needed a handout from California or anyone else unless you call the GI Bill a handout. I don't need Texas/California to give me handouts I've never even collected unemployment benefits in my life when I easily could have after the military. I guess some of us need a jump start, luckily I don't I'm a man I know what I need to do.

                    #18.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:23 PM EST
                    Reply

                    As an Autistic with Cerebral Palsy living here in New Hampshire, even though my SSDI income is low, I am permanently unable to receive Government food Stamp Assistance because I am living with my younger non-disabled brother. Therefore, when I run out of funds, after paying bills, I myself have no money for food. Here in New Hampshire, it is "tough luck you can not feed yourself @ the end of the month". Even I have debated whether or not to drive up to the State House in Concord from where I live in Salem, NH & stand in front of the Statue of President Franklin Pierce & dump a can of petrol on myself & light it in protest to how disabled adults are treated here in NH. Based upon the way things are now, the depraved hellhole that was the Laconia State School for the Feeble-Minded should never have been closed down years ago.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#20 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:00 PM EST

                    Clark, you're mentality is exactly what I'm talking about in the proceeding comment.

                    • 2 votes
                    #20.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:12 PM EST

                    Assumptions, assumptions... what is it you've decided I'd see? I'm sure plenty.

                      #20.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:26 PM EST

                      tommy.. I am sorry first off, 2nd now you can actually feel better that your state.. or mine (california) treat people of all handicaps the same... just like my daughter like NORMAL non handicapped people, you are NO LONGER SPECIAL!!! I tell my daughter that all the time! Yeaaahhh!!! Can't get help, nope not handicap enough, cant get food stamps because she lives with her family. If I were closer I would feed you, I don't know how, but what's one more mouth to feed.....

                      • 1 vote
                      #20.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:35 PM EST
                      Reply

                      When are people going to realize that we have a major systemic problem here? As long as we get caught up in blaming individuals, the failures of the system will continue to be addressed, and we'll continue to see all of these problems. And it's only getting worse.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#21 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:10 PM EST

                      That is, the failures of the system will continue to be unaddressed.

                        #21.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:42 PM EST
                        Reply

                        This is so sad that this mother was mentally ill and thought she needed to take her own kids lives because she was turned down assistance. Now we have two children that are without a mother and wont have any answers to why there mom did this.

                        As for the assistance office I do believe most of them not all of them are mean and dont care.. I went to the assistance office once they told me i make a 100.00 to much a month for a family of six there is me and my three daughters and my two grandkids. My eighteen year old cant appy cuz she lives with me and they go by my income.. these rule and regulations they have really irk me and i only bring in 980.00 a month income from my job. but one thing i would never do is harm my kids

                          Reply#22 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 5:58 PM EST

                          We have a system, which gives lots of "foreign aid" to basket case countries that squander the money on palaces for their rulers, while destitute Americans here @ home starve to death, because the government deem them "unworthy of life", the same as what was practiced in Nazi Germany. Those in power here, would rather "reduce the supplus population" via starvation & disease, paraphrasing a passage written my Charles Dickens in "A Christmas Carol", which is exactly what the Wealthy Oligarchs here in America want, instead of "sharing the wealth". Trickle-down economics has never worked. The King & Queen of France in 1789 learned that lesson the hard way.

                            Reply#23 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:13 PM EST

                            You are so right. The rich want 2 classes, THe super wealthy and the Servant Class. The Servant class scrunging and begging the rich for pennies on the dollar. No set wages, no vacations, etc. What's left of the middle class is the only thing that is interferring with this

                              #23.1 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 7:53 AM EST
                              Reply

                              I think that people need to stand up on thier own. If you get denied, there is a reason. Hey, there are lots of people that struggle. I stuggle, but I work, and I provide for my own family.

                                Reply#24 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:33 PM EST

                                It's going to get worse....Bugger you have a jobbut do you think there are jobs for every citizen in this country when there is so much out sourcing? I live in a community that is multi cultural, semi affleunt and everyone is struggling not to lose ground...But I have seen areas where the children grow up with one parent, non working parent(s) and are trapped in a vious cycle that only enforced their misery and dispare...This was created with hidden segration, be it race or economic...I was rasied by a strong family , I had my father, his father, and my fathers brothers, my mother, my mithers mother, my mother's brother...You see I was forunate not every one is. Every other day you pick up the paper and see where a mother has taken the life(s) of her self and children..Now even fathers ..You can always say how you picked yourself up by the back side and worked hard that will not help the millions in America that donot have the will. This woman should have gotton some help ...I wonder do you contribute to these Ballplayers and entertainers obsene salaries? Wake up America, a revolution of the poor is coming

                                  Reply#25 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:53 PM EST

                                  On August 1, 1966 a young marine and engineering student went to the top of the University of Texas tower in Austin Texas and killed 16 people and wounded 32 others. After the incident professors discovered a term paper he researched and submitted on a bridge collapse which occured in the northwest united states.

                                  This was a state of the art bridge designed to withstand wind, storms and earthquakes. One day with no obvious triggers it collapsed into the gorge. Engineers studied the wreckage and determined it was not one specific thing that caused the collapse but thousands of tiny stress fractures caused by the vehicles driving on the bridge.

                                  He went on to add at the end of his paper that like life humans can withstand a major crisis, buts its the daily small stress cracks that wear us down and cause collapse.........

                                  People are stressed and worn down..........

                                    Reply#26 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:22 PM EST

                                    Bluntly she did not kill herself because she was poor. She killed herself because she could not cope with being poor.

                                    There is a huge difference.

                                    I've been there and I know what I am talking about. I am not a conservative because I hate poor people or want to take away all the social welfare programs. I sure as heck am not a conservative because I love the rich. I am a conservative because I believe that the inept programs we have support all the wrong behaviors and thought patterns with this as the result. The government can prop you up for a while but what happens when the well runs dry? Eventually hard times will come that make what we are living with now seem like the land of milk and honey. I know this because history repeats itself. No amount of protesting and socialism can change that. Our current social welfare programs are nothing more than a warehouse for poor people. Become dependent upon the system and it is almost impossible to get out. You, your children and your childrens' children will be trapped.

                                    Coping skills are like muscles - you use them or you lose them. When you blur the line between true poverty and simply not having as much as you need because you make poor choices you weaken people and society.

                                    She did what she did because she suffered from the same collective mental illness most of our society suffers from - hopelessness and helplessness. I am sorry but there it is. We are weak because we have lost the ability to cope with the choices and sacrifices needed to rise above our circumstances.

                                    We need social welfare for those in TRUE need but they must come with classes in how to cope and get out of poverty. I am tired of seeing people with food stamps complaining about how they don't get enough to get through the month when they have TV dinners, frozen pizza etc. in their buggy. It doesn't make me mad because I begrudge them the junk food. It makes me mad because the poor people do not understand they could have enough if they bought real food and cooked. They don't understand how to budget resources. Ditto with the long nails, Ipods and all the rest. What do they do to improve your situation? Don't even get me started on the issue of drugs and alcohol. Poor people making themselves poorer so they can numb themselves to the reality of their situation. Explain to me how THAT is a good idea.

                                    Folks these are not survival skills and the people who are pointing out that it can happen to any of us are right. The only difference between my perspective and theirs is that I ask myself "What happens when there are no more handouts because too many people are poor?" Ask the starving people of truly poor countries how effective OWS would be where they live.

                                    As I said I have been poor and if it happened again I would cope. God help those who have grown so used to our welfare society that they can't because this story will be repeating itself all across the country unless we start teaching ourself to be more resilient.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#27 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 9:00 PM EST

                                    Your perspective is interesting, but in my opinion misguided... the idea that people should just learn to "cope better" with the failures of the system, because the system is just going to get worse and worse, and more people are going to need to cope, is really sad. We MAKE the system. If the system isn't working very well, it's the system that needs to change. Not the people.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #27.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:54 PM EST

                                    "Coping skills are like muscles - you use them or you lose them"

                                    Utter rot. Coping skills can be *taught."

                                    Further, while I vehemently disagree with your grossly inaccurate stereotyping of people who use food stamps, fact of the matter is that highly processed foods are CHEAPER than buying fresh & cooking. What rock have you been living under to have missed that important factoid?

                                    It's also an inconvenient fact -- for you -- that three out of four poor working-age adults actually HAVE jobs yet are still poor. Perhaps we wouldn't need safety nets if an honest day's work earned an honest wage. That's something that's gone by the wayside in recent years, you know.

                                    Yeah, I know, it's sooo much easier to blame those in need than to give any kind of critical analysis of the problem.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #27.2 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 12:59 AM EST

                                    lil anome -

                                    Thank you for the thought you put into your response. So often today people vilify the poster if they disagree with them. Sadly I lack your faith in the system's sustainablility and our ability to find a solution that is both effective and enforcable. I fear that even with a good plan human nature would strike and the result would be just a different version of our current experience. My sons have told me I am a pessimist and perhaps they any you are right but judging by my own personal experiences I fear I have to stick to my less than positive perspective.

                                    Idaho -

                                    You say that you believe that coping skills can be taught while saying my statement that we need to teach them the needed skills as you put it "utter rot". If we do not teach people to cope and we encourage behavior that allows people's natural self sufficiency to atrophy what can we expect but more of what happened with this poor family?

                                    As to your opinion that I am stereotyping people who use food stamps and the poor you are actually proving my point. Yes if you cook one way your meals will cost as much or more than low quality frozen foods / fast foods. The point is that people need to be taught what we used to learn in home economics class back in the old days. I am going to be blunt here - when I was broke I ate on less than the food stamp budget would have been. The difference was I cooked what was both healthful and cheap. We ate a LOT of beans and cornbread / beans and rice dishes. We ate a lot of peanut butter and I could stretch a chicken into 3 meals for a family of 5 by using it as an ingredient instead of the main course. Was it the standard diet people eat now? No, but it was actually more healthful than the junk you find in the freezer section. It took some serious thought and planning to turn dried milk, beans, cheap cuts of meat and other ingredients I see many food stamp shoppers turning their noses up at into good and nutritious meals but not one of my sons is under 6'2" so I think it is highly likely they didn't suffer from malnutrition. (Don't credit school lunches as they were home-schooled.) I will admit that my sons did joke on occasion that they would rather die than eat beans yet again but unlike the woman in the article I never was so desperate I thought the only solution was to shoot myself or my children.

                                    As to your opinion that I am casting blame and your comments about the working poor I can only say once again that you prove my point. I have been what would be classified as "working poor" and then through a combination of bad luck and bad judgment slipped low enough that the days when I complained about my poverty were memories of untold wealth. Now I am what you would probably classify as wealthy though I am far from rich. During that entire cycle I changed the one thing I could control - myself. I am sorry but odds are someone is going to be poor. Poor is often a relative and controllable state. That is my critical analysis and solution to the problem and no it was not easy to reach those conclusions or implement them. It was a lot of hard work and restructuring of my life. What is (as you put it) soooo easy is to make blanket statements that have no real future about how life is unfair and offer no realistic solution.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #27.3 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 10:12 AM EST
                                    Reply

                                    What is sad is that most of you have never been in htat kind of emotional, physical and mental state in your entire life. Many, many years ago, I was begging and pleading for help because my deadbeat ex would not help with anything. They didn't take your license or throw you in jail back then, they just seemed to pat the guy on the back and tell us "We are sorry you married him ma'am!" She must have been devastated to do what she did, and those poor children didn't deserve that, but she probably thought they would be stuck in an orphanage or home where they weren't cared for with love. I feel for her, I have been to that place, it is scary, hurtful and completely demoralizing.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    Reply#28 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:50 PM EST
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