This is what 'patriotic' duty gets you. After having laid down your life and limbs for what the government billed as the price for 'freedom' you get a medal pinned to your chest or dumped into landfills. The government could care less about We the People. Money is worth more than your blood and guts. Despicable.

That is the U. S. Military for ya': "You play ball with us, and we will shove the bat up your ass!" Like with the USS Liberty.

Where do most hospitals dispose of the ashes from their incinerators? Body parts get burned everyday and I believe that they are mixed in with everything else that goes to the landfill. Not a happy thought; but, that's what has been done for a very long time.

So OUR government tells US to respect and thank our men and women in uniform and then OUR government turns around and tosses those same men and women into a garbage dump! THAT is RESPECT? Might I humbly suggest NO ONE EVER enlist in this military again.

So say this is disgusting is beyond words and stands right up their with Penn State and Priestly Pedophiles.

I believe everyone in the entire military and civilian chain of command should at the very least be relegated to garbage dump maintenance fro the rest of their lives and most certainly never again be given a position of responsibility.

the USA may be a good company however I for one now hold OUR government in total contempt.

All that patriotic propaganda about duty and honor and making the ultimate sacrifice for your country to defend freedom, bla bla bla - yep, your gonna go get blown up on the battlefield in some unnecessary war started by some lying politician, and then you get a burial with less honor than the family dog.

If you truly supported the troops, you would take the time to write a letter to your goddamned warmongering Representative(s)

This is not a political issue here, David, and the questionable treatment of these soldier's remains has nothing to do with whether we should or should not be involved in this war or that war.

You "shove them where the sun doesn't shine" remark says more of you than of those at whom you aim your words.

dman:

The hell it's not a political issue, and the disposition of the soldiers' remains has EVERYTHING to do with whether we should have been there. If President Bush had not sent the troops there, they would not have been killed there. There would have been NO combat deaths.

Where the hell did you get your education - The Pontius Pilate School of Personal Responsibility?

What is so shocking about this? What do you think any hospital does with the bits and pieces they collect? Memorialize them? Keep them in glass jars with alcohol? I'm more disappointed that the boys in BLUE felt the need to misrepresent their actions. So..should we go to the landfill and start looking for body parts over the holidays?

This angers me more than words could ever express! The fact that the Air Force stated that they have no intention of notifying the families makes it even worse. These servicemembers gave their lives for everyone's freedoms! This is going on and yet the OWS folks are demanding to be heard and thier lives are not fair because they are the wrongly treated percentage. Eveyr day our servicemember put their lives on the line for this Country of ours and everyday someone, over in the "bad guy" land is taking shots at them for the "honor" they receive for killing an American servicemember.

Not only should everyone's position on that Base be frozen (no one allowed to retire or change duty stations) until the whole investigation (from an independent entity) is complete and people are held accountable. those same people should be made to go into the landfill and find every last part and piece of our servicemembers that they decided to dump there, place the pieces by DNA matching and then forced to dig the grave by hand, inform the family of their wrongdoing, pay for a memorial service for these people, etc. What has become of our Country and the people that live in it? Integrity has been lost. ethics are non-existent and morals no longer exist. I am saddened.

Everyday I get to wake up, tired from the lack of sleep I get, in immense pain. Each day it reminds me how lucky I am that I survived what I went through and makes me appreciate my life that much more. Would I do it again? Yes I would, without hesitation, but I respect the pain because of the memories that I have of why I am in this pain and where it came from. Those bodies do not have that luxury. I urge everyone that can read this thread to call that Air Force base, email their congressman and/or Senator and demand an inquiry into the mistreatment of our servicemembers!

Dont sit back when you could make a difference. Do something about it. I know I am!

Nobody deserves that. But I wouldn't expect more from a military that is has become slave to empirebuilding.

The hell it's not a political issue, and the disposition of the soldiers' remains has EVERYTHING to do with whether we should have been there. If President Bush had not sent the troops there, they would not have been killed there

Dave Walker This should not need explaining, but the justification for any particular war is a completely separate issue from the proper handling of the remains of all soldiers killed in any war.

If reports were found that the remains of U.S. Servicemen killed in WWII had been handled in disrespectfully, would you claim that this war should not have been fought?

Apparently you feel that the U.S. involvement in both Afghanistan and Iraq were mistakes, which is your right. But unless we disband our military and assume a attitude of complete passivity towards aggression, some wars and skirmishes are going to occur, and when there are wars, this issue will arise.

Also, IF you had read the story, you might have noted that the alleged practice of dumping human remains in a landfill was discontinued in 2008, some three years ago. So... why exactly do you think that taking "the time to write a letter to your goddamned warmongering Representative(s)" will do anything to fix this problem?

And again, why is it you feel that mistreatment of the remains of our U.S. servicemen is a political issue, and not a moral one?

I've no idea where you went to school, but apparently logic was not taught there.

So..should we go to the landfill and start looking for body parts over the holidays?

Certainly. They are our kids. You think it's right to bury our kids in a garbage dump?

This is how we deserve to spend our Christmas for what we've done. Every citizen who did nothing to protest the invasion of Iraq, every family who allowed their child to volunteer to go kill innocent people, should be out there with picks and shovels and plastic garbage bags so they can deal first-hand with what they've done and finally admit that they never cared about these kids at all. Just like Bush, they thought it was a video game.

I hope every soldier and every soldier's mother can clearly understand now that what goes around comes around. When you murder, you'll pay the price in one way or another, even if it's "only" replaying one place-and-time for the rest of your life.

I'm so sorry, darlings. The adults should have never let this happen to you. The problem is, we have so few adults these days.

Wow. Just wow. This makes me embarrassed I ever served in that branch.

Who is Marthana Wig, and why are her(?) posts almost instantaneously deleted?

This practice ended in 2008? Why did it make the news now?

Did Obama do something stupid again and they are trying to cover it up?

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read! Being a retired Military veteran who has lost friends and people who I and America depended upon ----- Everyone from the lowest enlisted to the highest (even the President of the USA) aware of or had knowledge of should commit suicide while real Americans urinate on their wasting corpse on the side of the road. - I am in tears and actually shaking from this!!!

This is/was a despicable act made by a FEW people. Find out who made this decision and punish THEM. Please do not paint this picture of the entire Armed Forces with such a wide brush. This act shocks and disgusts me beyond belief. Now the Air Force needs to send a team of Forensic Specialists to this land fill and reclaim our fallen Service Members remains and do it right this time.

I am also a disabled vet from the 60 & 70's, and what was done to our fellow vets, makes me sick!!!!! The goverment knows their names, and they are entilted a headstone at a National Cemetery.

Heads should roll!!!!

This sad. They reserve a special place in Hell for morons who make decisions to do stuff like this.

First Rick Perry slams gay/lesbian soldiers, and now this. Wow, I bet our military are feeling the love now.

So hospitals dump body parts too? So what! Hospitals have body parts that are not part of a burial event and are really, otherwise, discarded parts.

But when body parts actually ARRIVE in Virginia all the way from where they met their fate... collected in horror and good faith on the battlefield, packaged and cared-for, shipped with dignity, awarded metals for their sacrifice, and provided to the morgue for their last respectful rights... ONLY to have some @!$%# determine that it wasn't worth identifying ALL the parts. Really?

I cannot see how anyone can think that this treatment was anything but asinine. Seriously... someone needs to roll on this one. Is this a "common practice" ANYWHERE else?

There was an effort to take the easy way out (which was certainly NOT a respectful manner as they told the families). There was a conscious effort to HIDE this practice for a long time. A criminal investigation should be conducted. Sure it would have been difficult to ID those remains, but say that and give the families an option. Don't lie like cowards. Honesty is an unalienable component of Honor! Furthermore, what the hell is this "We don't want to make the effort to look at records crap?". Suck it up and do what is right. -former USAF

If disposing of remains into a landfill is 'respectful' I hate to think what a 'disrespectful' burial might be...

Ok.... color me dumb, but what are they supposed to do with body fragments that are incinerated?

Yes, dumping them in a landfill evokes an unpleasant mental picture, but body PARTS are treated this way by hospitals every day.

Burial at sea would be more appropriate, IMHO, but ashes of body fragments necessitate disposal no matter where it happens.

I guess it gives no one solace that no identifiable remains were handled this way.

And the practice was stopped 3 years ago. At least they have learned to be more sensitive about the matter on their own without being forced to by public outcry.

Food for thought: I wonder what the policy is now. How do they dispose of ashes today?

"It would require a massive effort and time to recall records and research individually,"

These soldiers were required to fight in a massive effort to protect this country and individually gave their lives for our freedoms . . .

Yeah, get off your asses and get started!

Olias, please don't lump people into one belief system. I am anti-abortion (you are welcome to have one, but it's not my preference), pro-universal health care and pro-sex education. So I do have my own beliefs, not just some politician's agenda.

Why don't these lazy arses ship those remains the 2 hours south to Norfolk - I can't think of any Captain who would not volunteer his crew to provide these guys with a proper burial at sea.

This is what happens when you get cheap and have to cut corners. I'm amazed that the employees told to dump the remains in a landfill didn't stop right there and blow the whistle.

Marthana is advertising, hence the deleting. As for the topic at hand, there is no excuse for this. These men and women have put their lives on the line and have lost their lives, they should be given the highest amount of honor and respect for giving up their lives for the sake of our freedom. This is unforgivable, and those responsible should be put on public trial.

Are you F@#$ing kidding me. Idon't care why that is just unbelievable

If my son were blown to smithereens I would at least want a proper burial..How hard is it to document...

The unknown soldier is known by many..

dman:

I get it now. Let's just compartmentalize everything and pretend there is no connection between war, the casualties of war, and how we dispose of the remains of the casualties.

I am going to digress here to point out that we have not been involved in a war, since the surrender of the Japanese in 1945. We can now count more than 100,000 G.I. deaths in invasions and incursions that were not sanctioned by Congress as required in our Constitution.

You reduce this carnage to some sort of abstract intellectual exercise. It is not abstract. It is very, very real. This is about flesh and blood. Whether this particular compartmentalized practice of dumping dead G.I.'s in landfills has ended isn't the sole issue. The larger issue, which unfortunately INCLUDES those deaths, as well as those yet to come is the reason for writing the letters.

Save your BS for your ivory tower discussions.

Ok.... color me dumb, but what are they supposed to do with body fragments that are incinerated?

Oh for crying out loud!

Give them to me if people like you can't figure out what to do. I have a beautiful piece of property I will make into a memorial garden and bury them with love and prayers.

Surely that would be better than a garbage dump.

It is inexcusable that the troops' ashes were dumped in a landfill. I would prefer that the remains had been given a proper burial instead of being incinerated in the first place.

I can only add that as a soldier having served in Iraq 3 times...it's not always easy to account for parts.

Especially at the scene of the incident. Some are found after the fact by locals on roof-tops, etc.

The body could have been in route back to the states for days.

If you account for this happening thousands of times a year... I'm not so sure anything was done wrong with the exception of the lying about it.

Very difficult discussion, I'm done for the day.

I am glad to see the outrage from civilians. The utter betrayal that those of us who served cannot truly be expressed. We do not ever willingly leave a comrade behind. We search for the body decades later. And for the Air Force to do this.... I cannot even express my hurt and anger. yes, this needs to be investigated. I would especially be hurt if this was something that was reserved for non-Air Force personnel. I want to know who did this and how they honestly can live with themselves. I understand that hospitals dispose of body parts this way, but it's not the same. Military personnel swear to serve our country and we supposedly honor that service. For any branch of the military to do this is almost unimaginable. I served in JAG and tell my daughter that there is nothing left in the world that would surprise me. This morning, I learned I was wrong.

I know other military personnel, active or seperated, will feel the same way I do. This is a terrible betrayal - absolutely terrible.

Good post, SabotAndHeat.

And I agree with you on many points, SeriouslyNow.

I know that we like to refer to our soldiers, alive and dead, as fighting for our freedom, but how is our freedom an issue in Afganistan and Iraq?

These soldiers were considered expendable by a corrupt administration - collateral damage in wars fought over politics and profits - not freedom.

Now THAT'S what angers me.

This is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. It is not an "I hate Bush/Obama" issue. It is not about the upcoming presidential election, or whether one supports/opposes war. It is about truth, honor and respect - and in that context, the people responsible for this policy failed miserably on all counts. Disgusting.

One other thought... This was unnecessary and lazy. Ask any US Naval vessel leaving port if they would do the honor of casting the ashes into the waters around our country and any commander would readily agree. Ask any commander of a US military base to find an appropriate place to scatter the ashes to on their base and or in a nearby national park and you would have hundreds ready to do this task. We would gladly take care of these ashes in a way that would honor them. Heck, just find your nearest VFW or any other group of ex-military personnel and ask for their help. That's what hurts. I know that it would have been easy and cost free. To handle it this was wasn't just lazy, because all us ex-military would have been honored to care for the remains of those who served and we would have done it for free. This was more than lazy - it was cruel.

@SeriouslyNow

Soldiers murdered thousands of innocent men, women and children!? Sure it has happened but not in the thousands. Hell, for that matter, it happens in America too! So I guess your getting what you deserved for not stopping murder here in the States? I guess all Americans are evil for those murders right? Your sensationalism is pathetic.

Do you choose to forget some soldiers have been shot down while trying to grab an Iraqi child out of a firefight? You live in a dream world.

Maybe I have misread your post?! It seems highly narrow-minded. Please clarify if I'm wrong.

@Seriously now

You know...forget it. I said I was done. Typical that any story posted turns into a political propaganda oppurtunity by one side or the other.

For what it's worth Seriously Now, if I was wrong about your statements... I apologize in advance. See you all on another day.

There are some names on these boards I won't go as far as to read their posts anymore and if they changed their screen names I would probably figure out who they were..

Maybe if their homes were parked next to 9/11 during that fateful day they would have a different aspect of our soldiers, "Gratitude", I'm sure they also think 9/11 was a set up..

UNBELIEVABLE.!

@ Disabled_Vet-2153438 , I too am a Disabled Vet from the BIG FIASCO in Nam.I also am an ex-AF SPL-OPS, and YOU are Correct. I have seen the AF at it's Best and it's WORST, such as this. You know the old adage still goes for ANYONE Enlisted. Once You Enlist, You BELONG TO THE US MILITARY. They can tell you to do things Despicable and you MUST Follow Orders or Lose all You have accomplished thus Far. It's a SAD situation for those HEROES to be Treated Like That, But to sweep it under the Rug,DISGUSTING. I know VA doesn't care about the VETS, but Their Own Branch of Service to act this way.

I agree, they should be Made to go on POLICE DETAIL, From the TOP to the PEONS, that were aware. Instead of sticking Your Heads up your Anal Retention Area, PULL IT OUT and Stick in the LANDFILL.A$$HOLES. It makes Me ashamed to say I Served My Time in the AIR FARCE.

Maybe I have misread your post?! It seems highly narrow-minded. Please clarify if I'm wrong.

I will answer you honestly and sincerely: I don't know if you're wrong or not.

I'm very angry about the Iraq war, but not so much in the partisan way I think you read. I'm angry that the innocent were killed and the guilty were rewarded on both sides. Think about it. Iraq was as close as secular as you can get in that region before we went in. Now and for the lives of our grandchildren, it will be a breeding-ground for terrorists. Those people will suffer terribly for our actions, while Bush and Cheney and their grandchildren live like kings.

And our kids died there. They were just kids and they didn't understand about the real blood that flows, the real body parts, the friend who was there a moment ago and now is just gone. They didn't realize they wouldn't wake up from the nightmare. They thought it was an adventure, and the so-called adults in this country who should have protected them FAILED them. Now they are dead. For nothing. That makes me literally sick to my stomach.

People like Bush and Cheney, who have never made any kind of sacrifice in their lives, are allowed to strut around playing big-shot, making life-and-death decisions for OUR children and for IRAQI children, and believe me, those people love their babies just as much as we love ours.

The "leaders" will never stop, because for them it is just an ego trip. They have no skin in the game. Only the common people can stand up and say enough is enough. No more war.

9/11 occurred because our CIA and FBI would not cooperate with each other and would not do their jobs. They were too busy playing big-shot, just like Bush. Instead of solving that problem, the real problem that left us vulnerable to a handful of rather stupid radicals, Bush invaded Iraq with our kids as expendable pawns.

When will we wake up? After it's too late? It may already be too late.

That's the best I can explain at the moment because right now, I'm crying. I've cried a lot of tears over this sick and horrible mess.

If cost was the issue I would like to know how much it cost to bury Bin Laden. We were told they "properly" buried Osama to prevent "outrage" from the muslim world.

Nice to know government wouldn't mind outraging our own people. The people who are paying for this war, and the people who paid the ultimate price for the war.

This government is so dysfunctional it amazes me. I don't know what's worse this or a $16 trillion debt.

I suppose it was/is too costly to burn the remains and spread the ashes somewhere respectful.

Stop giving us the "what do you think hospitals do".

These are SUPPOSEDLY men and women we should honor, respect and value for their sacrifices, so I dont GIVE A FLYING F what the damn hospitals do...

why cant we ever try to be BETTER? why must be content with this kind of garbage and BS?

we can throw billions away on greasing palms for oil contracts, but we cant manage to buy some land to buy some soldiers in a respectful way?

I CALL BS. Sick and tired...

If this doesn't prove your worth to the Republican Party, then what will? Don't blame Obama, it said they quit the practice in 2008, that Reds territory. As an atheist, I am sickened beyond words. It is totally disrespectful of any dead body, much less a vet who served to help US. I hope someone hangs for this treasonous act!

This is not a political issue here,

Well, I'll betcha it would have been had this been happening after say, Jan 20 2009...

Can you imagine the shrieky howl we would have heard coming out of all the patriotic parrots over at fox news???

Admit it, non stop, guaranteed - worse than the Obama vacation whine for sure.

And this is the "thanks and respect" the military women and men receive for risking their lives!

This practice makes the necessary registering for all males at age 18 for a military draft totally disgusting.

...incineration and then dumped into a landfill - it is as if these woman and men never existed.

You do not have a patriotic bone in your body! If this country's actions disgust you so much, then get out! Or get off your ass and do something about it! It seems you have all the answers......NOT! I am sick and tired of people like you with your ignorant opinions. Walk a mile in my boots.....then we will talk! Until then, all you are doing is blowing smoke out of your ass!

You are still a little boy.

I did do something about it. I protested. I am an old woman and couldn't join the military even if I wanted to, which seems in your book to be the only thing that would qualify me to have an opinion or to speak up against what I view as an atrocity. Yet at the same time, people like you will claim the military is protecting my "freedom of speech."

Do not curse at me. I would never walk an inch in your boots. The only advice I can give you is to grow up.

What I find deplorable is that all was known to be shiesty, thus covered up and not intended to be disclosed. Authorization for disposal in a dignified and respectfull way certainly didn't mean this; it meant perhaps cremation and disposed of at sea, or ashes scattered in some other dignified manner.

There may be some damage control attempted, such as 'disposed of in a place of honor for all military personnel (given the VA location)' , finger pointing, twisting of words, what have you, ...but it's simply wrong on all levels, and is why it was covered up. Know you've done wrong; cover your tracks..... stand behind what you've done, fess up and/or be open about your actions.

Face it; it wouldn't have cost a dime more to cremate and scatter honorabley. This, to most all, speaks volumes of the thoughts and feelings of those behind this action. And, I'm thinking this isn't the first time in our nations military command history it's happened.

Jesus Christ, who are these animals that would desecrate the
remains of our national heroes in such a manner?

If they had disposed of them in Arlington
National Cemetery
in a dignified manner I would understand but still not happy at the expedient
way the remains were treated.

As it stands as an American and a Veteran, I am mad as hell
at the way the remains of our heroes were treated like trash, thrown in the
city dump.

As for Iraq - you chose to see the people of iraq as "not innocent" because they dared to fight back against INVADERS (us, the united states).

No sh!t sherlocks, what did you think the Iraqi's would do?

What the BLEEP would you do, if any nation invading the US? Stand by and say "oh hey, so glad you all are here...we were sick and tired of Obama, thanks for liberating us?"

grow up big boy soldiers...you fought in the most pointless war since Vietnam, congrats...I dont fault you, you simply followed orders. But I do feel sorry for you, because you're clearly too brainwashed to see that your efforts were worthless...you solved nothing and simply created a new cesspool in another part of the world that will grow up hating our guts enough to crash planes and kill innocent americans.

I dont blame soldiers who served in Iraq for wanting to be proud of their service and getting angry when people like me rightfully point out they served for no good reason.

I cant imagine that would sit well with me, If I laid my life on the line - or watched my buddies die - all because of some idiot's desire to get revenge for his daddy and take the opportunity to exploit the tragedy of 9/11.

Naturally, you wouldnt see it that way...because to see it that way, would be to admit your service was pointless. Naturally, you'd never do that.

Just like no Iraqi would ever see themselves as terrorists for defending their nation for foreign invaders who have no right or reason to be invading them. Naturally.

Air Force officials said that the dumping was hidden from families who had given authorization for the remains to be disposed of in a respectful and dignified manner. Is this what they call respectful and dignified? This really pisses me off, this just proves when no one is watching, this is what they think of our Men, and Women serving their country. This is why we need to keep a close eye on GOVT. Someone better lose their jobs for this, I will be raising hell with my Congressman, to make damn sure someone does. I'm tired of sh*t being swept under the rug.

Would it have been so difficult to spread those ashes over Arlington National cemetery? After all they are our servicemen and women were talking about. They fought and died for this government and country

As for some of you that say OH hospitals do it all the time with body parts NOT WITH OUR SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN that is a disgrace

Just my opinion!

Come on, folks. They aren't talking about incinerating bodies and tossing them on the trash. They are talking about fragments! If you cut off your own finger do you have a sacred burial? If you have your leg amputated do you have a sacred burial? What about when your tonsils are removed? Many battlefield remains are in unidentifiable parts. So they identify as much of a body as they can and send it back for burial honors. The rest? Geez, get rid of it!

Might I humbly suggest NO ONE EVER enlist in this military again.

Wouldn't work, especially since congress can enact a draft! Which is illegal to ignore.

This story is disgusting I can only imagine the rage that these families feel. Is cremation the only option when a body is returned?

I'm married to a veteran, my father is a veteran, and so is my grandfather. My grandfather-in-law was also a veteran. If either of my kids decide they want to join the military, they would have my blessing so long as they finish a college degree first. Going in as an officer is better than an enlisted. If you come back with physical disabilities, at least you have something to go back on.

Nikki-1975634 Pisses me off too! To no end!

The point is that disposal of these ashes was not 'respectful'. Dumping them next to soiled diapers in a landfill is callous at best. If they were scattered into a river, sea, or forest on one of the many US military bases nobody would have said a word. And that little extra effort would have cost the US military less than a few toilet seats for one of their aircrafts.

My question is, "What is the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Air Force doing now that they know about this despicable act from the Pentagon officials."

Those Soldiers, gave you the right to troll on here #433.64. Show some respect.

There is more information needed to really comment on this. On one hand the article is saying that these were fragments, and the families were notified. Then on the other, it says they weren't intending on notifying the famililes which obviously makes it sound like another covert operation.

I worked in a funeral home and I can say that when a soldier came back from Iraq in a casket, there wasn't a body and then an arm in a bag next to it. If what happened was that the leg that may have been blown off, then recovered was disposed of seperately, this IS a common practice. HOWEVER, the real issue here is if the families didn't know this from the start. The deception is where the disgrace comes in.

I missed this from the article - are these "the entire remains" of some of service members or just partial remains? What I mean by that...

If these are the only remains that were recovered(able)... then this is a horse of a totally different color than if this was perhaps (sorry to be graphic) the hand of a servicemember whose body had already been properly interred.

Honestly, in my mind - there are two issues here. The first is that the Air Force purposefully deceived the families of those service members. Playing devil's advocate on behalf of the military - perhaps the remains were treated honorably prior to disposal and that's what the Air Force meant. Perhaps the creamation was done with all proper ceremony and everything done - other than where the remains were disposed - was in accordance with the highest traditions of laying honorable service members to rest. But even then, that brings up the second issue...

These men and women were laid to rest in a landfill. Just because I smile, wash your feet when you enter my home and provide you with food and refreshments while you're there doesn't excuse me kicking you in the privates when you go to leave. All ceremony aside, where the remains were disposed of is just as important as the steps taken prior to the disposal.

For God's sake... if these were the only remains recoverable and I was a family member who wanted to grieve for my departed loved one - I certainly don't want to go to a landfill to pay my respects. You can't tell me the military couldn't get a plot/spot at a cemetary - preferably Arlington - to place all remains like this in. Hell - even placing them in a revered spot on their home base would have been preferrable to disposing of them in a landfill.

And for those of you who are remarking that body parts from hospitals are incinerated and disposed of in a landfill... those aren't body parts of people who died giving their last ounce of devotion to a country that, more and more rarely, deserves such extreme sacrifices.

If President Bush had not sent the troops there, they would not have been killed there. There would have been NO combat deaths.

Where the hell did you get your education - The Pontius Pilate School of Personal Responsibility?

David Walker, here we go again, it's all Bush's fault yet you failed to mention Obama's "troop surge" of 100,000 more to Afghanistan with even more losses and wounded and a longer stay there. Obama is Bush III on steroids and nitro fuel.

Guess your education must have been self taught based political flim flam.

Very misleading article driven to cause pain ....

But I have to say again ... thank you Bush and Cheney!!! Enjoy your baseball games and book writing!

And Tad ... you need to get your history in order ... you sir are the true "political flim flam"!

OK, Just stop the political BS. Obama didn't do it, Bush didn't do it! For GOD SAKE! Show some respect. Not for them but to those who's body parts were thrown in a GD garbage dump! This crap makes me want to vomit. There are so many respectful alternatives (many mentioned in these posts) there is no reason beyond expediency. The officer who made this decision should be relieved for cause and retired in discrace.

It is not about what hospitals do with cremation ashes. This story is about the disrespect for the surviving family members. The military should communicate to the families that the remains of their lost ones are to be handed over or burried according to the family's wishes. That would have been the correct manner to proceed.

Ol_Doc ... Get Real ... no deaths ... no body parts!!!! If you don't think this is political ....

And where were the Bush daughters when Bush was saying "Bring Them On"!!!! Drinking beer at the sorority!!!!

The key is to "Stop this BS in the future"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF, the defense department is going to review the procedure; Congress was informed of this practice over 2 years ago, they chose to let it pass; Congress get off your lazy ass, and do something; our Congress is as useless as tits on a boar hog .

I am an Army daughter who grew up surrounded by these brave men and women every second of everyday. Words cant express what I am feeling right now.

I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago when I served. People ask me why I didn't retire from the service after 12 years and I tell them, I'm truly lucky to make it thus far. I enlisted in the Summer of '87 and ETS'd in Spring of '99.. during my time I served in all the "civil wars" all over the World..and they would send us out continuously, as we were losing troops, they were replacing them with either new or from another Team(s)..we got no rest and experieced "hard contact" daily..I ended up with bullet holes, burns, stab wounds, a broken back (L5-S1) and the burden of all my lost buddies..I rehabbed in Reed, Brooke, Womack and Cape Fear..when I ETS'd I left Bragg w/ three duffle bags..shook them down at the first pawn shop on Yadkin road and traded for a gold necklace..the only things I kept were my three Berets and I never looked back..we were and are expendable..I love our country, but the government is something else..God Bless the families that are dealing w/ this BS..

In an early comment someone said:

What is so shocking about this?

Then their were comments about "hospitals do it," etc.... -

What if you found out that you could have buried more of your child but were denied the opportunity?

I am reminded of a murdered woman - Brenda Schaefer- the police kept her hands for more testing. The family was allowed to bury their daughter & sister. When the investigation was over - her hands were given back and her brothers buried them on her cemetery plot. Her brother wrote a book called Double Jeopardy - getting her WHOLE body back gave the family a sense of closure.

It does not matter if you are for or against this war. Many men and women signed up right after the 9/11 attacks. Every piece of the World Trade Center was meticulously gone through at Fresh Kills and ANY piece that could be returned to the family was - that was done for civilians.

We have heard to many heartbreaking mistakes - from poor armour, to rats at Walter Reed Hospital and now this - families that understand a loved one was not returned in perfect condition, yet they lovingly buried them - now the US Air Force has ripped open the stitch of their wounded heart by saying that they knew who the remains belonged too (in some cases) but just threw them in a landfill? There is NO EXCUSE for this! It is saddening for those who serve past or present but especially for the families of the fallen.

Tired of Stupidity-946705

I think you summed it up well.

If they have parts that can't be identified by DNA, they should have a respectful place for them to be placed, NOT thrown into a landfill. Imagine an entire group of men who are all so damaged as to not know which is which... what did they do not give any to any family to bury and dump into the landfill? That's atrocious.

Pulse I could have passed you in the halls of Womack. Thank you for everything you went through. I hope you've found some peace. My dad only found his very late in life.

Do any of you really believe that Bush personally ok'd this? Really? And, by the way, just so you get a clue of how our government works, ALL OF CONGRESS had to vote on whether or not to go to war based on the SAME information the GW had and they voted to go to war. Now, in case you're not aware, most Democrats voted YES. As for this article, I understand that most of the "parts" that they are talking about are unidentifiable, so there is noone to inform, BUT to bury them in a landfill is ABSOLUTELY disrespectful. There are so many more options. I hate that I never wopuld have voted for GW, that I think he's an absolute and complete idiot and yet, I still have to defend him against morons who think that he and Cheney (another idiot) started this war all by themselves. By the way, didn't Obama promise to bring our troops home? He might have mentioned that he only meant that the original deadline set by Bush would bring them home during his term anyway. I am sad to say that there are so many greedy, self-important morons in office today, and not one person running for president that is worth voting for. How sad it is that a country built on "for the poeple" cannot find anyone to actually represent "the people"?

The attack on Pearl happend because of comunication problems, the services could not communicate or would not, even units of the same service couldn't or wouldn't talk to each other. 60 years later the U.S. had not learned a thing, It let the attack on the world trade center happen, no one could or would communicate. The main problem was I am in charge-you are not. Control Control.

@pulse who said:

we were and are expendable

Not to your friends, family, fellow soldiers OR to any human who has the sense of right versus wrong. I know what you said was/is true - I just wish it wasn't. Peace is not mine to give but as impatient girl said - I do hope you can find some.

This was a dispicable act that was condoned by Persons with no Regard or Respect for Fallen Comrades or Their Families. These Persons should be Removed from their Positions. To Show Respect for the Remains they should have spread the ashes at Arlington National Cemetary, giving the Fallen our Respect and Gratefullness. I am a Life Member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and Encourage all my Fellow Members of this Great Organization to Convey their Outrage to Your Congressmen and Senators to Investigate and Hold those Responsible for their Actions!

G W Bush and Cheney and the GOP crowd didnt know about this until the Dems took over in congress abd put a stop to it .. but thats all over now .. lets just concentrate on blameing this whole thing on Obama

cmstubbles ... You are one naive soul!!!! "ALL OF CONGRESS had to vote on whether or not to go to war based on the SAME information"

SIR ... do you know what the term "Cook The Books" means!!!

AND ... with all of the Bush TV talks to the American people ... with the back drop of 9/11 ... he made it politically impossible for people to oppose him!!!!

YES ... Bush & Cheney are directly responsible .... and you sir ... need to get real!!!!!

@Impatient girl and BK & SC..lest we forget:

Thank you both for the kind words..

"Last month, Pentagon and Air Force officials said that figuring out how many remains were sent to the King George County, Va., landfill would take combing through the records of more than 6,300 troops."

Vets to Pentagon: "Well start f***ing combing."

PDK

This is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. It is not an "I hate Bush/Obama" issue.

I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence, but as soon as Obama became President the practice ended.

Ummm..."independent" jim, Dems took over Congress in January 2007 and Congress in fact had absolutely nothing to do with the cessation of this practice. You know, so we're clear on the dates and your "independence" and all.

"Dump" all the GOP T-Retards in Congress in the landfill for starting two unfunded wars that killed thousands of American boys. "W" lied to Congress to get us into Iraq. Remember & Honor Bull$hit.

JOregon...could you move away from the Obama alter for one second and answer me this: What date did Obama become President?

@pulse - check your messages or "friends" I send you a request & message

newscover

Ol_Doc ... Get Real ... no deaths ... no body parts!!!! If you don't think this is political ....
And where were the Bush daughters when Bush was saying "Bring Them On"!!!! Drinking beer at the sorority!!!!
The key is to "Stop this BS in the future"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I think you should consider getting real. The subject is not who started the damn war and I don't give two sheits what the Bush Girls do. Ok, now we can all sit around and sing "Imagine", but if we're talking about reality...there have always been wars and there will always be wars, until there are no humans beings. Blame it on Wall Street, blame it on Bush, blame it on the Congress...it doesn't matter, it won't bring back the dead. I have my own feelings about the Iraq invasion but that's a subject for another blog. This is about treating our fallen warriors with respect!

PDK

This is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. It is not an "I hate Bush/Obama" issue.

I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence, but as soon as Obama became President the practice ended.

Respectfully, JOregon -- my personal opinion is that any investigation of, and/or redress for this despicable policy (not that anything can ever truly "make this right") should start with facts and evidence. If such facts and evidence point up the chain of command, they should be pursued with the utmost diligence and transparency on behalf of these soldiers and their families. Thus, I believe speculation on coincidences and the partisan political implications serve only to distract and divide at this point. Just my $0.02. Peace.

If disposing of remains into a landfill is 'respectful' I hate to think what a 'disrespectful' burial might be...

It would involve a certain bathroom fixture. And I wouldn't put it past the Air Force to have started using that method after this one was discontinued. If they'll dump remains in a landfill, they'll have no qualms about flushing them.

Mike

You are right I was giving him an extra year.

PS

I am not an Obama fan, just feel that what President Cheney er Bush did to this country, in so many ways, was an atrocity.

I really wish the GOP could put somebody decent in the mix so far it looks like Huntsman is the best option and he will never get the nomination.

I don't want to disillusion anyone but you folks are aware that most terrorists come from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and that area? That includes the ones that destroyed the Twin Towers on 9/11. Has everyone forgotten that? Sorry I have to point out the obvious.

THAT'S WHY OUR TROOPS ARE THERE, so terrorists won't be here as much. It is appalling that the remains were treated like that anyway you look at it.

To Patriot Marine......your posting says it all. God bless you and your service to this country....we are the reason idiots like seriouslynow are able to speak their mind without fear of retaliation or imprisonment. You can't fix stupid and seriouslynow is one of the most ignorant A**holes I have ever come across. Again, thank you for your service. I for one admire your courage and patriotism.

It is appalling that the remains were treated like that anyway you look at it.

On that point, I completely agree, Robert. However, weren't most of the 9/11 terrorists actually from Saudi Arabia? Please note, I have no interest in debating the legitimacy of the Iraq war. Just trying to confirm the accuracy of your claim relatively to what I thought I had heard.

FOLKS- let's take a deep beath here-

First of all, let me explain that I am VERY pro-military; perhaps more so than a lot of people IN the military or who have BEEN in the military. ANYTHING to protect our troops is OK by me.

I am a Vietnam combat veteran also. My son is in the Army, in Afghanistan. All of my siblings served.

SO: READ THE ARTICLE. The parts were INCINERATED. THEY ARE ASH.

976 fragments from 274 personnel were cremated, incinerated and dumped in the landfill. An additional 1,762 remains, which could not be DNA tested because of damage from explosions, were gathered from the battlefield and dumped in a similar manner, the Air Force told the newspaper.

It's not like they were throwing whole bodies away, or even parts. We are talking about small pieces, in such bad shape that they couldn't even get DNA out of them.

The question is, what does one do with small indeterminate pieces of people that may have been mixed up on the battlefield? Make paperweights?

I cremated my father after his death last year, and spread his ashes at sea. Maybe they were all there, maybe not- all I know is that I had a 10-pound box with gray powder in it. Does it matter if it was 10 pounds versus 10.12 pounds? Am I going to cry less because it was one ounce underweight?

You all may not know it , but there are NO restrictions on disposal of ashes, as they are not a health hazard.

If my son gets killed in AF/PAK , I'm not going to sweat one of his toenails not making it into the urn.

What I AM going to sweat is the misguided "don't shoot the enemy" policies we have for ROEs now that get our people killed. . The REMFs have to stop running the war. But, if that was to happen, the libs wouldn't have anything to do, so that will never happen. This current "Hurray for the Taliban , and screw our guys " is the REAL travesty.

It amazes me that so few people understand what happens to somebody when they are blown up. It also amazes me that so few people can read, and then think about what they just read, and realize what it means.

So for the vast majority of the people here that completely failed at understanding, here is a much simpler and less PC explanation than what msn already supplied.

Some body parts cannot be identified by DNA testing and these parts are incinerated because they cannot find out whose body remnants to include them with. Then the ASHES are put into the dump along with the ASHES of all the other bio-hazardous material incinerated with them because that is common practice in every hospital I know of in the US. I emphasize ASHES because it is apparent that people reading this thought they were dumping actual flesh material, along with whole bodies, into the dump. They STOPPED dumping ashes into the dump in the year 2009 and this is the year 2011, almost 2012, which if you can do basic math means they stopped doing this 2-3 years ago. They also decided to stop doing this without anyone telling them to, which means YOU don't need tell them to stop, protest the military, etc. You should also note that it is most likely that the remains where not from the soldiers, because the DNA tests did not match, and is more likely to be from a suicide bomber or Iraqi that was also killed in the explosion. So if you are still angry at the methods the US Air Force used to dispose unidentified carbon remains almost 3 years ago I will not try and argue your opinion.

As a vet I have noticed that the respectful disposal of servicemembers be it by death or by just retiring, or your contract ended . the respect due is non existant. When I retired I was a proud vet but I didn't even get a gold watch for my 23 years, and as time goes on my feeling the respect I earned has never been there

I rambled (SORRY)

No wars = no war dead. As a veteran from the Vietnam Era, I say--

The military leadership lies at every turn. They lied to Americans when Pat Tillman was killed by "friendly fire" and made him a poster child for the incompetence of military leadership.

I say, it benefits only the Military Industrial Complex.

I say, Post WWII there has been no war worth the US getting involved.

The Pentagon stated that they kept no numbers on the Iraqi civilian causalities. Wikileaks hacked and found that they did---66K+.

We are the world's leader in the manufacturing of WMD's.

Where next? Pakistan, Iran?

It's impossible for the military to right this wrong. Cut the military budget and sit out the wars.

Bill, I hope you're right.

The hell it's not a political issue, and the disposition of the soldiers' remains has EVERYTHING to do with whether we should have been there. If President Bush had not sent the troops there, they would not have been killed there. There would have been NO combat deaths.

Really? Why don't you go talk to a lot of vets and find out what THEY think. Their opinions, and those of their families, are the ones that truly matter. How many American citizens would be dead now if there had been no retaliation for 9/11?

Please do not paint this picture of the entire Armed Forces with such a wide brush.

That's right. I feel awful for the soldiers that actually had to follow these orders. I am sure it sickened them, but they have do what they are told.

So, now we treat our warriors as badly in death as we treat them in life? Do we really deserve to survive as a civilization?

Rene:

And the gold medal for conclusion jumping goes to........YOU. I am a vet, even did my year in the SEA garden spot. I go the the V.A. every fourth Friday. I know what I'm talking about. Do you?

You ask, "How many American citizens would be dead now if there had been no retaliation for 9/11?" I don't know, and neither do you. I can tell you that because of the retaliation more than 4,000 American citizens ARE dead, many more are wounded, and upwards of 100,000 Iraqis and Afghanis are dead.

hockey4um: How's that work? If a veteran doesn't agree with you he is an ignorant ass, but if he shares your view he's a patriot, is that it?

Robert lotsanumbers: The majority of the terrorists who drove the aircraft into the twin towers, the Pentagon, and Pennsylvania were from Saudi Arabia: not Iraq, not Afghanistan.

HEADS SHOULD ROLL

* * *

Captains, Colonels, Generals, USAF Chief of Staff -- fire them ! ! !

I understand that identifying the remains may not have been possible, however, there could have been a special place (ie. not a landfill) where the remains could have been placed that was more respectful.

If this was not realized-why did they lie? If they thought what they were doing was fine-why the cover up?

When it comes to honoring the sacrifice of soliers who died, we should look to the most respectful option-and not the quickest and easiest.

This is a tragic story. I was wondering if this was part of the reason bush/cheney didn't want the bodies coming home from the war show on TV? Why didn't we see the brave young people returned home in their coffins? Was it cheaper to just throw them into a landfill.

Think about this disgusting story and remember bush/cheney sent our soldiers to war with inadequate body armour. The rush was on to get us into a unnecessary war and make halliburton richer. When was there any thought put into protecting our soldiers during the Iraq war?

Why in God's name do we expect anything good about the 8yrs of gwbush/cheney?

This practice ended in 2008? Why did it make the news now?

Did Obama do something stupid again and they are trying to cover it up?

Ok, think about your comment for one nano-second. The practice was ongoing up until 2008. Then one event happened that year. Then the practice stopped. What event happened in 2008?

Right! A new administration took over and had the power to discontinue this BS. WTF is it with people and their lack of critical thinking skills?

Does anyone know if this disgusting Category 5 tragedy was conducted by actual military personnel, or was the base trying to cut costs by using civilian subcontractors -- like a bunch of locals with with a pick-up truck?

Whatever we civilians think of the U. S.'s many misfired "incursions," today's soldiers are men and women who volunteered for service and put their lives on the line for all of us. They didn't make the policies that sent them into harm's way. They trained hard, they worked together, they gave their lives. Even unidentifiable remains from their physical bodies deserve a proper service on designated military property.

During the best of times s#^t happens in civilian life. The military thrives in the manufacture of it. While appalling, the Air Force was just doing business as usual. Oh hell! Settle down now!

as the grieving father of a fallen marine who has been dishonored beyond belief, i can assure you, most of you would be outraged if you knew the inner workings of our military regarding our children. with all due respect to those who have served, and to those on the front lines and in the trenches, the callousness, arrogance, and disrespect with which the pencil-pushing-pu$$ie$ go about their jobs is appalling. can't go into detail, as i wait on the slow wheels of "justice" to turn, i read these stories and my heart goes out to the families of these dishonored children. semper fi, and rest in PEACE, my son.

Ok.... color me dumb, but what are they supposed to do with body fragments that are incinerated?

Hmmm ... if we only had a branch of the military with airplanes we could have them disperse the ashes in a respectful ceremony ...

I don't want to disillusion anyone but you folks are aware that most terrorists come from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and that area? That includes the ones that destroyed the Twin Towers on 9/11. Has everyone forgotten that? Sorry I have to point out the obvious.

If I recall correctly 16 of the 19 were Saudi, and a couple were Egyptian. By your logic we could bomb Canada over the Mexican cartels.

Hate to state the obvious but you sir are misinformed and have had your fill of the punch.

Most people who join the military don't have a pot to piss in, so it stands to reason that when their families are forced to make a decision on their loved ones remains, they won't have the resources to do what they would like to do with the remains.

People here are always saying you alone are responsible for your actions - not being able to project your death when you join the military when it is at war is wishful thinking...a hero complex.

I'm either going to sell or donate my dead body for research - I am doing so because I want to spare my loved ones as much cost as I can...and I also don't want my dead body to be some shrine where others go to feel sorry or grief about something that is natural.

Too many people never prepare for reality then let it haunt them the rest of their lives - this restricts not only them but hinders their offspring from being all they can be. I spoke with my son on such subject several times and it helped lead him to make the decision to be a doctor. You can't be a doctor and make an emotional attachment to everyone you treat. My wife is another story - her Catholic upbringing has her brainwashed into thinking some brick monument should be erected in the front yard and you should go to the graveyard and weep often. Sorry hun, but that ain't gunna happen with my dead body.

Once the researchers are done with me, I could care less what they do with me, I made the choice and as Doris would sing....what will be will be.

Hero worship....ugh!

Dear wife; the money you save from burying me will allow you to pay off the house and live stress free...you are welcome...lol.

This is how we treat warriors that are fighting the battles for us? Damn, I wonder what they'd do to my remains? "The dead know nothing." All in the name of safety and security. Do you feel any safer?

JM-1992894

This practice ended in 2008? Why did it make the news now?

Did Obama do something stupid again and they are trying to cover it up?

Ok, think about your comment for one nano-second. The practice was ongoing up until 2008. Then one event happened that year. Then the practice stopped. What event happened in 2008?

Right! A new administration took over and had the power to discontinue this BS. WTF is it with people and their lack of critical thinking skills?

Great observation. Let's elect some more morally bankrupt GOP members that are owned by corporations.

Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget

Well said in post#1.84

Utterly obscene. May whomever made this decision BURN IN HELL.

I get it now. Let's just compartmentalize everything and pretend there is no connection between war, the casualties of war, and how we dispose of the remains of the casualties.

No, Dave, actually you do not "get it", not at all. I'm saying that regardless of whether a war was fought for good or bad reasons, or in accordance with the constitution, that the remains of the servicemen being brought home deserve to be treated with respect, and, that writing your congressman today will not do anything to amend a practice which was discontinued in 2008.

As to your further points, that none of the conflicts fought since WWII have been declared wars, and thus were unconstiutional, I would point out that...

1. That while the constitution does grant the power to declare war to Congress, there is nothing expressly forbidding the commitment of our military forces beyond our borders without a declartion of war. (see Thomas Jefferson's actions against the pirates of Tripoli in the First Barbary War).
2. There is nothing in a declaration of war which makes the ensuing conflict any more (or less) justifiable than an undeclared war. Was the Korean War a mistake because Congress never declared war? Would the Iraq invasion in 2003 have been any less of a stupid mistake if Congress had issued a formal declaration of war?
3. While there was no declaration of war, Congress did expressly grant the President the power to commit U.S. forces in Viet Nam, Iraq (2 times) and Afghanistan.

So, none of the conflicts fought since 1945 could be illegal or unconstitutional under U.S. law. Some may have been ill-advised ventures. Others not. But in all cases the remains of servicemen who fought and died in them deserve to be treated in a respectful and reverential manner, and not be dumped in a landfill.

Got it yet (I doubt it)?

It certainly appears that lying to the family members is, reportedly, the most egregious aspect of this story, and that fact should be investigated until kingdom comes. That said, I find the correlation to the ban on showing the flag-draped caskets returning to our shores all to easily segues into this account of mass burial and burning of body part site(s). More and more I'm inclined to believe that the Bush administration was about as inept and corrupt as they come, and that's saying a LOT when considering the recent obstructionist mentality of our current Congress. There can be no doubt at this point that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al, and any other Top Brass involved in this horrifying outcome for our precious and irreplaceable soldiers, should be charge with every possible treasonous act one can document and file in a court of law. This is sickening. It is an outrage. I am still shaking my head as I try to grasp the fact that we're REALLY talking about the United States as opposed to some third-world banana republic. It's simply unfathomable no matter the spin other Newsviners' posts. Hiding the caskets from public view and now this. . . it just screams of hard core and deliberate deception and malfeasance. What is WRONG with American other than the obvious? GOOD LORD!

That said, I find the correlation to the ban on showing the flag-draped caskets returning to our shores all to easily segues into this account of mass burial and burning of body part site(s).

Which, asknreceive1, says much about what you are predisposed to believe. There is nothing in the story saying that these unidentified, fragmentary remains were even returned in coffins, and the story relates that remains were in some cases kept in the mortuary for extended periods of time until they could be identified.

So what is the connection to the decision to ban the filming or photographing of coffins arriving at this air force base with this despicable practice?

How would a photograph of a flag-draped, anonymous coffin have revealed what was done with the contents?

There can be no doubt at this point that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al, and any other Top Brass involved in this horrifying outcome for our precious and irreplaceable soldiers, should be charge with every possible treasonous act one can document and file in a court of law.

Well, if you read the Washington Post story, on which MSNBC partially represents, you'd have seen the following passage:

The landfill disposals were never formally authorized under military policies or regulations. They also were not disclosed to senior Pentagon officials who conducted a high-level review of cremation policies at the Dover mortuary in 2008, records show.

...and keep in mind that Bush has now been gone from the White House for 3 years, so there is little he can now do to suppress the truth regarding practice. But in your mind, there is no doubt that Bush, Cheny, and company were all involved.

Believe me, I am fan of George W. Bush, or of almost any member of his administration. He will almost undoubtedly go down as one of our worst Presidents. But he is not personally responsible for every instance of carelessness, dereliction of duty or outright wrongdoing that occurred during his eight years in office.

To associate him with the improper disposal of fragmentary human remains is to charge him with a crime for which there is neither any motive or, more importantly, evidence, and in so doing you make yourself and by extension all other Bush detractors, appear to be fanatical ideologues, incapable of discerning truth from paranoid delusions.

You might want to familiarize yourself with the title "Commander In Chief", and the old adage: "The buck stops here." Good luck, and let us know how you do on your finals!

...and you might want to familiarize yourself with the term, "delusional disorder". New medical treatments are highly promising, but the first step is to admit that you have a problem.

the correlation between banning images of the coffins to prevent americans associating death with their little wars and dumping remains in landfills is that honoring soldiers is not a priority. Read Pulse's post for more insight. Jessica-1170252, well reasoned. seriouslynow, try not to beat yourself up over these issues, as you see many of the perpetrators, I mean patriots, don't appreciate your concern. the problem with the military is the blurring of the lines between defenders for us and mercenaries for someone else

I have just one thing to say. What would our foreign policy look like if elected officials were not allowed to buy stock in any defense contractor, nor would any general officer allowed to take a position as a contractor in those same firms. Those Gos are a fricking joke. They follow like little puppies in line, and as soon as theyb retire, or get fired, they get their appearance fees as a spokesman, and bad mouth the guys they were serving next to, a year ago. Most GOs are so egotistical, they do not have a righteous bone in their body. Think Enron, WorldCom and Bernie Madoff. Most enlisted guys view military service as being a part of something bigger than themselves, but when you attain the rank of GO, for some reason, it clicks in your head that every one should be serving you. Just look at the DoD Mentor program. If you are a leader, and need the DoD to hold your hand by hiring someone at $400 per hour to give you a hand.. newsflash, you weren't the right one for the job.

DukeLeto2009: really? So quick to jump on Bush and try to make it political. Do you honestly, deep down in your soul, think that any President would dare have the knowledge that our servicemembers that were deceased would be dumped into a landfill coming home from combat/overseas? If so that speaks leaps and bounds about your level of understanding and education regarding the situation. I could only hope that you were sleep-typing and know not what you type. That would be the only thing that would make that comment right and even then you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself

Disabled Vet:

Wake up! First, this whole thing was political. Secondly, President Bush and his nasty little chicken hawk corporate lackeys knew damned good and well we had no legitimate reason for being in Afghanistan or Iraq. They lied, and if you don't know that by now then you are deliberately ignoring the facts. They knew American troops were dying, being blown up, and disabled both physically and psychologically.

If they didn't give a damn about living G.I.'s, do you really think they were particularly concerned about them when they were dead? DukeLeto is spot on when he reminds us that the Bush Administration would not allow any reportage of dead G.I.'s when their bodies were returned. Do you really imagine they weren't trying to hide what they were doing?

Come on into the real world. There comes a time when you have to take a step back and realize that most G.I.'s are nothing more than living, breathing tools of war. When you're killed, well, your just another expended round.

I'm no fan of George Bush at all (except for his Bushisms), but I don't believe he knew about this. He was pretty ignorant of a lot of things that went on in his Administration.

It may not have been politically motivated but the practice was not stopped till the Obama Administration learned what was going on.

The one thing that Obama has over Bush is a real respect for everyday Americans.

Wow, people are already trying to turn this into some sort of "Bush did it" conspiracy, rather than what it was a lower level command decision, which no chief executive (not even George W.) would have allowed.

I'm no fan of George W. Bush. But this story is not about him, or even about the Iraq War. It is about the alleged improper handling of unidentifiable human remains retrieved from a theater of war. If the Iraq War was a good thing, it would not lessen whatever wrong was done here, and if the Iraq War was a stupid mistake, as I believe, it does not heighten the offense.

So the reason George W. Bush did not allow filming of the return of the remains of U.S. Servicemen may have been politically motivated. But that is a long, long way from trying to hide this despicable practice.

I have to agree w/dman. I am definitely not a fan of GWB and consider him to be the worst president in US History. However, his daddy was in the military, and I despite the Silver Spoon stuck up his _____________, he would not have stood for this type of behavior. Yes, i will forever believe we had no right to be in the Iraqi war, and if it had not happened... but it has, and now we have to move on.

Those who made this type of a decision.. based it first on the lack of abilty to identify the body parts. Understandable... not exactly "good", but understandable. Howeve, choosing to dispose of the remains is despectable, but to lie about it to the survivors is completely off the charts.

David Walker,

You like so many others are truly uninformed follow the leader types... You do no research on your own, just sit back and yes, yes, yes, if it was on CNN or in the paper it has to be correct...

I would argue with you here, but I don't have the time and you just have to do alittle research on your own to see why we are actually 'over there'!

According to records the military gave The Post, between 2003 and 2008, 976 fragments from 274 personnel were cremated, incinerated and dumped in the landfill.

These are ashes we are talking about, nothing that resembles actual body parts

Give them to me if people like you can't figure out what to do. I have a beautiful piece of property I will make into a memorial garden and bury them with love and prayers.

I am guessing many of these remains are from troops that are still alive (like a foot lost in a roadside bomb). I really doubt they expected a memorial for their lost appendage. They probably really dont care what you do with it (until this moment I never even wondered what happened to my tonsils). Technically, the parts are receiving a burial in the landfill. If you use fertilizer in your garden, I really dont see how it is better to bury them in your manure than other crap in the landfill.

Ambrosia,

Don't fall for the cover up story. Don't you know how the military works to CYA.

You are GUESSING. You really DOUBT. They PROBABLY didn't care. TECHNICALLY...the parts were burried.

Really convincing defense of this practice you got there. Basically, you have nothing but a guess a doubt and a probably. Oy vey!

no one ever answered the Question as to why the remains of our service men were not allowed to be seen .. or why their remains being returned was kept secret .. the Bush administration never wanted the American people to know what was happening to our Troops .. more shall be revealed about the corruption at the top during the Bush/Cheney years

Maybe now we know why Bush wouldnt let reporter film remains being brought back from overseas, they might have seen they werent headed to the cemetery.

How quickly we forget. The reason they weren't allowed to be filmed is because WE (family members) asked that they not be, and out of respect for us and our privacy President Bush banned it, if my husband had God forbid not come home alive I wouldn't want his picture plastered all over the news.

Since you want to make this all political David Walker, FYI it was President Obama who over turned the ban and now they're allowed to film again, against OUR wishes.

I think this would be a good time for the US to start considering demilitarization for all except defensive forces, as so many other countries have done. It seems war brings far more heartaches to too many people than it benefits. I remember having an argument with a co-worker ten years ago - a staunch Republican Christian, who debated with me the benefits of going to war in Iraq. I was opposed. The guy's defense was that Iraq needed to be "bombed into a parking lot", then we could come home. I said it was going to drag on for years and be a quagmire just like Vietnam was. I was wrong in that it lasted a whole lot longer than Vietnam did.

It was an idiot's argument then the same as it is today. Let's put an end to these senseless wars for the sake of all the brainless idiocy that is a byproduct of these conflicts.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

Maybe now we know why Bush wouldnt let reporter film remains being brought back from overseas, they might have seen they werent headed to the cemetery.

How quickly we forget. The reason they weren't allowed to be filmed is because WE (family members) asked that they not be, and out of respect for us and our privacy President Bush banned it, if my husband had God forbid not come home alive I wouldn't want his picture plastered all over the news.

Since you want to make this all political David Walker, FYI it was President Obama who over turned the ban and now they're allowed to film again, against OUR wishes

No disrespect, Ma'am. But it was the families of the fallen who overturned the Bush ban, not the other way around. Bush hid the bodies from the public because he knew the war was unpopular, not because the families wanted it banned. While you may have felt that way - which is and was your right - it was not the reason for the ban.

Shellie-657180

You are GUESSING. You really DOUBT. They PROBABLY didn't care. TECHNICALLY...the parts were burried.

Really convincing defense of this practice you got there. Basically, you have nothing but a guess a doubt and a probably. Oy vey!

Ambrosia makes an excellent point at post 2.8. It's worth a 2nd look. This makes more sense than anything else that's been posted here and would go far in diffusing this if in fact true.

1SGGitzsWife4ID - I appreciate your husband's service, and yours. I was kind of hoping to keep politics out of this but I can't let your last comment go. The families are asked if they object to photographs of our arriving fallen. If the family objects it is not allowed. If you're old enough to remember the Vietnam War you know the truth as to why President Bush put the ban in place. This was to be a sanitized war seen only from the shopping mall.

CBurroughs:

You said: "You do no research on your own, just sit back and yes, yes, yes, if it was on CNN or in the paper it has to be correct..."

Yes, you're probably right, now that I think about it. What could a former reporter and Viet Nam vet possibly know about such things?

And wife person who has no personal identity:

You wrote: "Since you want to make this all political David Walker, FYI it was President Obama who over turned the ban and now they're allowed to film again, against OUR wishes."

As a matter of fact it was during the Bush Administration that it was made quite clear that anyone who dared to disagree with their policy was UNpatriotic. Maybe you'd like to reconsider who politicized this mess.

It wasn't until the American public saw the incredible horrors of Viet Nam - thanks to the press - that public support for that incursion began to wane. I feel great sadness for those who have lost loved ones in the Middle East, but the public should not be insulated from the horrors of armed conflict. In fact, I want the supporters of this constant carnage to have their faces shoved in blood and guts. There is nothing pretty about war and everyone should know that. There are NO winners.

As many have pointed out, reporters were not allowed to photograph the flag draped coffins coming into Dover, AFB. Bush's policy was that was out of "respect for the families." On reputable sights (foreign news), you can find another reason - first, the flights moved from day to night time flights (difficult to photograph and difficult to count).

Many do not know that the "official" number of American dead is much lower than the actual total. Military personnel in Iraq are only counted as dead if they passed on directly on the ground of that country. If they still had two breaths left in them when a medivac helicopter lifted off - they were counted as wounded (even though they died seconds after being lifted off of the ground). Same goes for those who died in Frankfurt or Walter Reed. These deaths are recorded - just not in the official count. The government has had a history of not protecting the lives and honor of our military personnel during these "police actions."

Keep in mind this website was posted in 2005 - and states a higher death toll than the official one in 2011 -

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1669.htm

I'm behind you David! Not only have they not walked the mile, they aren't even willing to get off their double bubble butts and try!

War is always fought for political reasons and to state otherwise, is to reveal that 'you've not been directly inconvenienced, tune in occassionally to Faux News, who disguise the war as 'christian crusade' and propel it forward with dissinformation, which you absorb, from the comfort of your easy chair, if you can tear yourself away from Sons of Anarchy or some other FX show filled with Sex, Nudity and Violence.

What are we fighting for? Our Senators sent us to war, our Senators passed the "Patriotic Act" our Senators formed the Department of Homeland Security, our Senators are sitting shotgun for the CIA, our Senators have spent trillions and bankrupted us, our Senators continue a war with 90% CIVILIAN CASUALTY RATE (just like Vietnam), our Senators have no interest in ending this Global assault.

On Monday, 97 of our Senators joined in an CONSPIRACY to commit an ACT OF TREASON against US Citizens by voting 97 to 7 to pass a bill THAT NEGATES OUR FOURTH AMENDMENT AND GIVES MILITARY CONTROL/OWNERSHIP OVER US CITIZENS, ON US SOIL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS MILITARY COUP ON OUR DEMOCRACY;

OUR SENATORS SELF-SERVING DEFINITION WILL BE USED AGAINST ACTIVISTS, OWS, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SPEAKS OUT AGAINST THEIR NEW MILICORP GOVERNMENT, A FEW OF THEIR PROBABLE 'SIGNS' OF TERRORISM; IS PERSON WHO HAS MORE THAN 7 DAYS OF FOOD STORED, A PERSON WHO .HAS AMMUNITION IN COLD STORAGE, A PERSON WHO HAS OVER XXX IN CASH, A PERSON WHO WAS SEEN IN THE VICINITY OF 'A TERRORIST, AS DETERMINED BY THEM, BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN CONTACT WITH THAT PERSON. SUCH PERSONS WILL BE DETAINED 'INDEFINETLY' AND CAN APPEAL EVERY 2 YEARS FOR 'REVIEW.' SUCH PERSONS CAN AND WILL BE DETAINED UNTIL THE END OF CONFLICT.' Well, when do you think this conflict is going to be over? Cold war was 40 years, fanatical evangical christians think they are fighting a crusade with this war and we're 10 years into it and the only 'Individuals' recording record profits are 'too big to fail, too big to go to jail' corporations. Our Senators have given them a TRILLION and more to cover their asses on WS Derivatives gambiling that was ILLEGAL IN 1999, prior to the repeal of the 1936 Glass-Steagall Financial Reform Act which protected US Citizens from WS Ponzi schemes and enacted to prevent another.... oh yeah, DEPRESSION.

Really! What says ye of such faith in our Senators and betting your lives this isn't ALL Political? Obama veto'd the bill because it did not give him the final say, he is, under our current constitution, the Commander in Chief after all..... Our Senator's Corporate Puppet Masters want that power, Word! This is their response to a 13% approval rating which works out to be 1%'rs and their acolytes.

Rupert Murdoch was on the 'Hill' yesterday, pulling puppet strings for his ALEC authored 'CHINA/IRAN' internet rules cut n' pasted into this Bill that gives THEM/1%'rs CONTROL over OUR ALL INTERNET CONTENT COMING INTO THE US AND THE ABILITY TO ACCESS IT. Looks like they don't LIKE OWS, WORLDWIDE! Why is he not being tried TODAY under the RICO ACT for the crimes that he is answering to in England and have been committed here in the US? Well, in 2000, while we weren't looking, our Supreme Court ceased to operate under the mission of 'By the People and For the People' and using some will placed appointments, it's mission is now 'By the Corporations and For the Corporations.' Since Murdochs multi-tiered corporations are now 'Individuals,' CEO's don't go to jail for the crimes they authorize and use others to execute. Between that and Glass-Steagall, nobody is held accountable, they have the nerve to blame the 99% and especially, the poor for the state of our economy.

Let's start a Petition and get 1 million signatures, go the the UN and Appeal for Intervention against the US Congress for Acts of Treason and Conspiracy to enact a Military Coup on our Democratic system. We can start by listing the 'DC NINETY-SEVEN' Senators who are behind this recent Military coup conspiracy, add the names of every Senator and CEO who have conspired 'under' ALEC and the authors of this Internet LAW, add all names from Congress who have authored and approved Law that conspires to remove our Bill of Rights and Constitution, beginning in 1999 through present, including the Patriotic Act and authorization and enactment of Authority over the 99%, i.e. DHLS, TSA, etc. That would just about cover anyone new who came to shoot the odds that if they are elected to congress, they have a 2-1 chance of becoming millionaires (Rupert acolytes), those that have become Political Pod people who go to DC with a message from their constituents and come back spouting taped party rhetoric, and those that have become so powerful, they are dangerous, self-serving and think they are smarter then the Framers of Our Constitution which has served us much longer, and wiser, and promote disinformation, making the continental US a 'War Zone' as defined by 'from which any act of war is perpetuated on foreign soil.' Guess what, Las Vegas is a War Zone cause they are commanding Drones from Creech AFB and committing acts of war on Foreign Soil.

Hope you don't have more than 7 days of food and a gun at home, and happen to be waiting for a bus and standing next to the 'wrong' person......

Disgraceful---no other words to describe this saddening state of our country and treatment of our courageous warriors who laid down their lives for America.

This is in light of the Pentagon screaming for billions more dollars for their already burgeoning budget! For what? My thoughts and prayers to the military families for their loss.

American American, I saw the proclaim you mentioned. I'm off topic, but I'll comment on this. This is flat out the craziest thing I've ever heard!

My grandfather came back from Korean with 3 fingers missing. He wasn't a terrorist. He was a good man, a beautiful craftsman (carpenter) and he loved his family and country.

Sen. Rand Paul (R) Kentucket says that missing finger is a sign of a terrorist.

Just about every adult in this family hunts. We get one deer every year for meat. We are bot terrorists, but we are patriotic and support our right to put food on our table.

Sen. Rand Paul says that anyone with guns and/or weatherproof ammunition is a terrorist. OK, 2nd amendment constitutionalists...WHO wants to take your guns?!

Additionally, Sen. Rand Paul (R) Kentuckey stated that anyone having more than 7 days worth of food in their home is a terrorist...really? Seriously? This is Iowa...has this fool ever BEEN on a farm??!!

Well, maybe someone from FEMA and the CDC should sit down and have a discussion with this clown. They both recommend having enough food, water,medical supplies, etc. on hand to survive in case of disaster, or in case of a pandemic..at LEAST 30 days.

I'm quite sure my Granny, who puts up veggies from her garden every year, to last the winter would be horrified by the lack of forethought in this man's assumptions......what an complete moron.

Thank you for commenting on the topic...I'm sure many people here do not know of this yet.

On topic.....Our brave soldiers (even if it is unclaimed "parts" )deserve better than a landfill.... a bit of land with a memorial would have been the best way to pay tribute. Someone needs a trip to the woodshed over this~

Going through the records would be a good job for military prisoners.

I would hope that the guilty parties are quickly identified and their careers with the US military brought to a well-deserved termination. They can be reduced in rank too, no point giving them the fat pension they failed to earn.

Throughout history it has always been the same story. Young men, who still retain the strength and passion of actually caring about being men as opposed to the fat assed cogs in the wheels of government and society, whose incompetence and greed cause the wars they then ask the young men to die in, end up being used as cannon fodder; disposable chaff to be thrown purposelessly into the face of the winds of war.

If I were in my twenties, I truly would think long and hard about allowing myself to be commanded by any military organization - be it America's or any other country's, but especially here in America, where we have a Commander-in-Chief who has the some of the worst scores ever when it comes to retiring military men and women in terms of his competence; not to mention being more intrested in being politically correct in the way he conducts a war than he is in winning one.

How can one allow oneself to serve in a military that has no respect for you - even when you have made the ultimate sacrifice in good faith?

Everyone, everywhere, who approved and knowingly took part in this travesty needs to not only lose their job but be prosecuted for gross negligence and disrespect for the men who died from Generals on down; they should be exposed to the light of publici censure and made to feel the shame they so deserve to be exposed to for their heinous, inexcusable actions.

Could this all be the result of former Pres Regan reopening our chemical warfar derpartment and then former Pres Bush putting it to work in febuary in 1984 as soon as he took office. I was there and saw mushroom type of explotions the colors were like nothing that I had ever seen before. They were bules mixed with greens and yellows. I have never understood what type of fuel combusts with that type of colors in the explotions. My more serious question, were these the men who were part of the peace keeping task force sent to Beirut Lebanon?

@Efrain: for the love of Pete.....use microsoft word to type your comments if you are not sure how to spell or phrase a sentence.
Warfare not warfar
Department not derpartment
February not febuary
Explosion not explotions
Blues not bules
I am not the spelling police just someone that uses the english language and cannot take someone seriously if they cannot put together an educated post or addition to the thread. Now, onto the point of quickly pointing blame of something in the past. What would that have to do with the story of bodies and body parts being thrown into a landfill of our servicemembers that have died? I dont care if they were overseas to sing to the troops, if they are servicemembers and they perish, they deserve the respect to have their remains treated with the utmost care and respect. They signed the line giving their life to their country and their Country took them up on that contract.

Have some respect.

So very wrong... how the heck hard would it have been to designate an acre or two of the National Cemetery for scattering of ashes of unknown (parts of) cremated soldiers?!?

Not hard at all. A memorial garden in Arlington would have been a good solution.

To Disabled Vet I am 100% disabled vet with a TBI. I'm sorry if my grammer or spelling offended you. When I first read the article I was and still am very taken back by it. I was there and my emotions got the best of me. No disrespect was intended...

I would like to know why they are moving these ashes all the way from Dover Delaware through the state of Maryland and dumping their remains into a landfill in VA that is no where close to Arlington Cemetery (approx. a three hour car drive from King George VA to Dover Delaware)? How much money is Delaware paying VA for that service????? Sad to say that this does not surprise me considering what has been discovered at Arlington Cemetery.

All they had to do was call the freaking local VFW or other organization made up of ex-military. They would have disposed of the remains honorably and for free.

Disabled Vet

Efrain's response is a perfect example why the Grammar Nazi's such as yourself irritate so many of us.

This is the INTERNET!

Not only are there people with brain injuries answering, there are people in foreign countries where English isn't their first or even second language.

Then there are people like me who's fingers don't alwats hit the right keys.

I even had a keyboard for awhile that failed to deliver the eystroke.

All tough to fix if you are in a hurry.

.

.

On a second note - It is interesting that the practice ended as soon as Obama became President.

The remains of these soldiers could have easily been placed in Lawn Crypts with a marker to pay tribute to their collective service, from experience I can tell you that this would have taken very little time or space but I guess the landfill was an option too.

Agree. I think I am going to throw up. This is the WORST the WORST abomination I have ever heard of. I am sickened to my core. It's bad enough when gd Wall Street throws our vets who come home ALIVE out of their homes but to have remains DISRESPECTED coming from a war many of them did not even realize they would be sent to and the ones that did bought into the propaganda as many of us did including me that the Iraq war was justified. It wasn't but that does not matter. Those troops who gave the ultimate when the rest of America went shopping or saw the latest American idol makes me want to PUKE...angry does not BEGIN to describe my feelings. we need OUT of that godforsaken hell hole .. NONE NONE do you hear me you IDIOTS who make policy NONE of those vets had to die but die in this way, whoever is responsible for doing this unconscionable thing of desecrating our war dead should be JAILED for the rest of his/her life!!

expected is the word i would have used since it involves the military.

You're sad excuse for a post makes me sick! Maybe when you go we can put you in a landfill!! Oh that's right that's good enough for those who fight and die for our freedoms guess you didn't wouldn't serve you re too busy being philosophical!

From a logical perspective, rising - thats true. But we have yet to start turning our deceased into soylent green to feed back to the public, which would be ever so logical and efficient. Scattering ashes in a cemetery returns the ashes to the dust alot more than tossing them in along with used kitty litter, baby diapers, slimy old broccoli, rotting fish, .... you get the idea. This is about respect for the dead. I kid around with my family all the time that when I die, they can toss me into the woods if they want. But being thrown into the garbage - when it would be just as easy to pull over on the side of the road and spread ashes into the woods - well, thats just - COLD.

do not take the name of ozymandias in vain, and go back to school and learn the difference between culture and religion. perhaps then you will learn to understand the issue. same to the fellow bloggists who share your ignorance.

Ozyman... though your post is accurate, unfortunately, people will react to this emotionally, not logically. For proof, see the first two borderline-lunatic replies.

However, even though I'm a pragmatic, logical person myself, I can completely understand how this would incense the families of servicemen and women, as well as other who have served the country, and indeed, all of us. That these people likely died a needless death is enough of an outrage, but to couple it with this level of wanton dishonor makes it even more painful. Death and burial rituals are an important part of any society; discarding the remains of fallen soldiers in a landfill is disrespect on the highest level.

Regardless of how you compartmentalize this, Rising, the Air Force Brass's active role in covering up this shameful act is, in and of itself, acknowledgement of their wrong-doing. So when I see them well aware of their deplorable behavior, I'm inclined to agree with them that something horrible happened here, despite how you've rationalized this into a win-win situation for everyone.

The way landfills are in this day and age NOTHING goes back to the earth.All items that go to a landfill are SEALED in what amounts to a very large bag that allows nothing to leach back into the ground.EPA Regulations.That is why we have a lot of SuperFund site.There is one close to where I live that used to be a landfill/garbage dump and now they are doing clean up/remediation of the site because UNWANTED items Leached back into the ground.

Well, if you want to see things like this get worse just keep pulling that voting handle to the Right. The Party that has little gratitude and an ever growing contempt for human dignity is waiting to serve you and they are safe and sound within the Republican Party.

I know that many refer to our soldiers, alive and dead, as fighting for our freedom, but how is our freedom an issue in Afganistan and Iraq?

These soldiers were considered expendable by the Bush administration - collateral damage in wars fought over politics and profit - not freedom.

Now THAT'S what angers me.

Highly Opionated
I know that many refer to our soldiers, alive and dead, as fighting for our freedom, but how is our freedom an issue in Afganistan and Iraq?
These soldiers were considered expendable by the Bush administration - collateral damage in wars fought over politics and profit - not freedom.
Now THAT'S what angers me.

I'm only a retired Sergeant First Class and I can't speak for current service members or other veterans but I can speak for myself. I hear the argument often that we can't leave this war or that because that will somehow mean that our fallen have died in vain. In my humble opinion, that is not possible; they died with honor performing their duty. No matter how a war ends, the warrior's have done their best and sacrificed the most. No administration and no politician can take that away from them. Members of the Armed Forces do not choose their battles, civilians decide where they will fight and die. Put simply, a soldier fights for the soldier next to him, but he dies for his country. I hope that helps.

Ozymandias:

The biological remains were cremated. In our culture cannibalism is seen as reprehensible, but human bodies contain protein. Should the military feed the dead to soldiers? It makes scientific sense but is symbolically unacceptable.

Those remains are symbolic of the value placed upon servicemen. For that reason, all remains should be laid to rest in a respectful manner. The other reason is simple and straitforward: The Air Force said they would dispose of remains in a dignified manner. If a dump is a dignified place, I suggest the brass relocate their offices to the nearest landfill.

No, it's not. If it were, there wouldn't be any outrage over this.

I think it shows what the military at that time thought of its soldiers

Look, I agree with the sentiment, but, in comments about this and other articles, people keep mentioning "the government" like it's this disembodied entity, wholly detached from anything or anyone.

Look in the mirror and you will see the government of the United States. Look at any crowd in any city and you will see the government of the United States. Read the final sentence of the Declaration of Independence or the preamble to the US Constitution if you have any doubt about who comprises the government of this country.

Chad, you are right. The government is a reflection of the people -- or at least that is what it should be. But since Reagan's presidency, this country has been a reflection of what influence big money has bought and paid for. They get away with it because the average voter is too busy with their own self interests and buy into politicians who support their cultural prejudices. We've lost sight of respecting each other as equals and our innate compassion for all of humanity. It's me, mine and you keep your hands off of my pennies. It's rejection of true human values. We've divided ourselves by listening to hate mongoring news media whose agenda is to subvert our very humanity. That is what we've become as a people.

Chad - do you honestly and truly believe that? That the face staring back in the mirror at you/us is a picture of our government?

Louisiana - Yes. Exactly.

Louisiana Lady, you simply reinforced my point with your intelligent and accurate post. We, as Americans, are largely culturally biased, self-centered, and ignorant... and we have painfully short attention spans.

So when you have citizens who have no respect for each other, and are divisive, greedy, hate- and fear-mongering, and self-serving to the point of being uninformed sellouts, and you pull your elected officials from that pool, what else do you expect from the resultant government?? This isn't rocket science. The United States government is a DIRECT reflection of its electorate. The politicians who are bought and paid for by special interests and lobbyists would be just as easily bought and paid for outside of politics. If the US were populated with forward-thinking, country-first mentality, selfless, moral people of unshakable integrity, do you think we'd have a government that's as deadlocked and incompetent as the one we see now?

As George Carlin succinctly put it, "Garbage in, garbage out."

MLM, the "face in the mirror" comment was metaphorical. I was saying, apparently too esoterically, that "we the people" are, in fact, the government. The governed give their consent to the government, and indeed form it and staff it. See the second paragraph above, read it again.

And I like how the Air Force is still trying to cover it up. Way to be up front. Isn't integrity a core value?

This should be front page of every news publication in the country. I am horrified and disgusted and I feel helpless. How can we change this??? Anyone? We are supposed to be the government, we the people, and it isn't that way. How can we change this?

Honor is not one of the USAF's core values.

Fat Cat, You are one s**k F... go back to your occupy tent. You talk of hate and fear and brainwash, while the liberal socialist machine has been preaching and teaching hate and fear and anti everything for decades now. They scream for the necks of those who are motivated enough to make money while they have been taught it should just begiven to them, like the trophies they got for participation while growing up avoiding responsibility ...you hypocritical b*$#^rd

It because of people like you that there is no honor or appreciation for anything in this country anymore! If i read any more of this left wing dribble i think i will puke! You and your type have turned this country into a country of sheep, afraid to take a chance to break ranks with the unmotivated, br!ain dead and the morley bankrupt To excell at anything is critized and looked down on by the progressive socalist anti american movement!

While this artical is discusting and those who made these decesions should be sought out and exposed. To me it is not the "military industral complex" that would have done this, if anything they raise awarness of those who sacrafice, they play the taps and give proper final resting spots. By dishonoring those who sacrafice they discourage those who would join the military not encurage!!

To me this stinks of the socalist progressive party, those who would protest at a solgers funeral. The progressive hate machine discourages anybody to disagree with them and there quest for power. Yes this is a progressive discesion. If you do not believe in any god only your own fantasy idealism then you have no sole and the rest of the world that does not share your hate of Me first is wrong!!

As an undocumented, hard working migrant worker I must say you need remedial English to learn how to spell.

To me this stinks of the socalist progressive party, those who would protest at a solgers funeral. The progressive hate machine discourages anybody to disagree with them and there quest for power. Yes this is a progressive discesion. If you do not believe in any god only your own fantasy idealism then you have no sole and the rest of the world that does not share your hate of Me first is wrong!!

I'm sure you mean "soldiers' funeral". Funny how you seem to tie that crap to the "socialist progressive party". Seems to me the only people protesting at soldiers' funerals are fundamentalist Christian homophobes (Westboro Baptist Church). Not exactly a branch of a mythical "socialist progressive party".

Shawn...keep your comments to yourself. This has nothing to do with the left. It is the WHOLE....period.

Always thought the US soldiers who had died were revered when they came back home.

They are, by most of our citizens. Totally different story with the top military brass. Someone will take the fall for this, and IMO, it should be more than just one.

Burial at sea would be more respectful. Why not that? That is what was done for Bin Ladin, even he got more respect. This is totally obscene!

Right after court martial, loss of rank down to the lowest possible level and dishonorable discharge (if all that is possible in combination).

I just wonder how much our Government neglects to tell us and exposes us to danger . Vietnam cooked up boat attack and now recently killed 24 Paki soldiers in self denfence ?? wink wink .... nothing is truth anymore . Eversince 911 our rights to truth and transparecy have been usurped in the name of national security

The Secretary of Defense in 2003 was Rumsfeld. The Secretary of Defense in 2008 was Gates. I am not saying that Rumsfeld gave a direct order to dispose of remains this way, but an organization takes on the attitudes and characteristics of its leader and Rumsfeld was in no way committed to providing troops the best equipment possible to protect them. He, when asked about the issue, said you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. I'm not going to lay this one on Bush who I believe is a decent man even if I don't agree with his conclusions. At the time however, Bush was not running the country - Cheney was, and Rumsfeld was Cheney's man. I have never seen any indication that Cheney cared about human sensibilities ever or respected anything but a calculator.

The President is the Commander in Chief and is ultimately responsible. I do not for one minute believe that Bush or his Cabinet or Staff would have tolerated this if they knew about it, but they are ultimately responsible, they were in command and it happened on their watch. If they did not know about it, why ? It was their appointees and staff that allowed it to happen .

@ MM-584706

READ the article AGAIN and you will see that this DID happen under the NOT-SO watchful eye of George ***hole Bush. The lives of the thousands lost in these two illegal wars can be placed directly at his feet.

How is Bush not responsible for everything that happened on his watch? One must remember that 9/11 happened on his watch as well.

The 'Decider' is responsible for this and the other atrocities that occurred during his Presidency.

REM-954719....that was my point ! While I am sure he was not aware of it, he is still responsible, he was the Commander In Chief.

I agree and apparently since it was stopped in 2008 and it is now 2011 I guess Obama would be responsible for the cover up?

So Bush covered it up until 2008 and Obama covered it up until 2011. two peas in a pod? The vote for change must be a huge disappointment huh?

Steve

Considering how much criticism he gets for mentioning the economy was destroyed by Bush are you surprised Obama chose to not bring it up?

I can hear it now:

"FOX news is reporting Obama at it again criticizing the Bush administration for old news. Once again trying to defer attention from his own failings"

No way Obama could win on that one.

They're not alive. Your comment makes no sense.

I agree.

Wolf - But your family may care what happens to your remains, and some of your countrymen, too. Feelings at times like this are not always logical or rational - thank God for that!

Kinda missing the point, Einstein!

Yes Wolf but the living are tied to the past and the future offering continuity and connections to the memories of those who were in their life. If we were animals maybe we wouldn't think like that but we are not animals, for one. For two, higher mammals like Elephants losing a calf have a hard time "letting go", not just the mom, the whole herd, underlying how they are not cold robot.

I am appalled by what I read in this article. They could have scattered ashes in a park, at least. I hope heads roll over it. Those people discarded as trash were Serving in the US Military.

Since these remains could not be identified how is it possible for any family to know whose they are? This is in no way meant to excuse these actions, BTW, but the point is no one knows which family should feel distressed and harmed over this problem.

This is another way in which Bush failed as president. What a marune.

I have to disagree...the families of every member of the Air Force who served over there and died are feeling distressed...harmed...and betrayed over "this problem" Frankly, this has harmed and distressed every service member and their families....and friends.....this is an unforgivable betrayal of trust and loyalty.

I hope there is no peace for those who made the decision to do this and then hide it...and those who are refusing to set it right.

I pray for the families who are left with questions and pain over this. They certainly did not deserve it.

2Wylde,

It was not only the remains of Air Force personnel - the Air Force was assigned the task of handling remains of all who were killed in action or died while deployed. It could include remains of those from any branch or National Guard (maybe even civilian workers in the Middle East working for the Defense Dept, CIA, etc.?)

Since these were body parts that could not be identified and placed with the body for burial, maybe they should have established a policy of placing the cremated partial remains in a Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in the War Against Terrorism. Or do the burial-at-sea thing - either would be respectful.