How much you want to bet that it was inside joke for the members of that specific unit? I mean, the pic was obviously not meant to be circulated widely and was never meant to be public--- the only reason we're hearing about it is because someone forwarded it to the Air Force Times:

"but [it] didn’t come to light publicly until it was emailed to Air Force Times on Monday."

I'm willing to bet these jokers were clowning around to relieve job stress and that they underestimated the power of social media to disseminate "sensitive" material.

If your gonna do stupid stuff, don't take pictures. And if you do take pictures don't put them on facebook or youtube or anything internet related. i.e. If your gonna do something stupid make sure it doesn't make it into the -> news <-. You woulda thought they had learned that by now.

Willam Mcarthur!!

Thank God, you're a "minority" within the confines of the readers, here!!

Plus, they misspelled "sux."

VINCE 545056- you beat me to the punch! There is always one person ready to red flag the minorities in everything. Thank you Mr. Mcarthur for your asinine comment what would this thread be without it?! Jerk!

No matter the reason, it is untoward to the troops that put their lives on the line. Drop them out with no benefits and a Dishonorable.

What they did was stupid. What they did will be handled within the military.

This offense, while clearly in very bad taste, does not warrant any punishment even close to a dishonorable discharge. Those of you who have not served have no business bandying about such nonsense. Such a punishment would follow these G.I.'s for the rest of their days.

The airmen will be punished. Of that you may be assured.

They are expected to show respect for the military, when the military is dumping their dead in a f'ing LANDFILL. Yeah right....they will show respect when they are given it.

So, to all the people saying these soldiers deserve to be punished and drummed out of the military, I ask when you sign up for the military to fight and die to protect the first amendment rights of Americans, do you forfeit that right yourself?

While the photo is in poor taste, is it not the constitution right of these men to express themselves, even if said expression is distasteful or offensive to some?

These men have volunteered to put their lives on the line in protection of our way of life, why should they be punished for exercising the very freedoms they have sworn protect?

'William Mcarthur' wrote:

*cough* bunch of minorities in that photo...

REPLY: I sincerely hope that YOU are not an American. Your racist mindset diminishes the HUMAN race!

To David Walker:

I suspect, before the military is done with the folks in the picture, they will wish they could get a dishonorable discharge and have it over with.

I suppose that the freedom of expression these men have put their lives on hold to defend, only applies to ideas that the rest of us deem worthy.

I know that no one wants to hear this, because it won't scratch 'itching ears', but the concept of "Freedom of Expression" was initiated to defend UNPOPULAR speech. Popular speech, by it's very name does not need defending.

There is NO right to "Not be Offended", and there sure as hell is no law against bad taste.

While I think this is unbelievably disrepectful and tasteless, it is obvious that they are voicing their opinion about the fact that the US Military has "misplaced" hundreds of coffins that were supposed to go to Arlington National and they ended up in the LOCAL DUMP! They are saying....to others who are serving - hope you don't die because the Military doesn't care if you get home and they'll just dispose of your coffin in the dump along with leftovers from last nights dinner and used baby diapers.

Again - very tacky and not pretty...but feel the anger and the fear. If they do die fighting for our country, their bodies could end up in a dump - with no one accountable and no one taking the blame. That would make me a little disrespectful too.

I would almost gurantee that this was done as an "F" you to Bin Laden. They "Dumpt" him in the Ocean after he was killed. I am sure the investigation will shed more light on it, but that is my best guess on what the picture stood for.

This is a very elaborate picture that reminds me of those rap videos which the soldiers were doing in Iraq and posting to YouTube. The words at the bottom also remind me of a rap song. Were they writing rap songs--perhaps about the carelessness with which human lives were wasted in Iraq or perhaps about a particular soldier who was badly treated after being taken prisoner by terrorists?

We really don't know the context of the photograph--but what we do know is that these young men and women were exercising really incredibly poor judgment not to stop and think about how this photograph would look outside of context.

I think that the military should investigate themselves, find out what the situation was, and then act appropriately. I don't think that we know enough about the situation to understand if this was "lighthearted" (perhaps a reference to an inter-unit athletic event that some other unit lost), or if it was a political comment about an act done by terrorists or the insensitivity of those sending them to die, or if it was in some way racist (the young man in the coffin appears to be European American, though it is hard to be sure). The context will have a lot to do with the punishment.

I am not going to judge these people as good or bad without knowing more about the context--and, really, it isn't likely that I'll ever find out what was going on. So, perhaps we should all just go about our business, as this is a military matter that's being dealt with (I hope, well) by the military?

I agree this photo is bizarre and in poor taste. However, this falls in the category of gallows humor, which these folks use to relieve stress. I can't imagine the stress involved in fighting a war where any routine patrol can bring death or maiming.

Due to this publicity, any chance at promotion for any of these guys is just about gone. I don't see any future Colonels or Generals in this photo. But don't ruin their post military careers by giving them a dishonorable discharge. They are young and stupid but they fought for us.

Although this lacks taste, they should not be discharged. This is hurting nothing but feelings. If any of you have had military service you would know that this is the kind of stuff that goes down on off time.

PS geniuses you cannot receive a DD for this maybe an OTH at the most.

'DLOVR1969' wrote:

While I think this is unbelievably disrespectful and tasteless, it is obvious that they are voicing their opinion about the fact that the US Military has "misplaced" hundreds of coffins that were supposed to go to Arlington National and they ended up in the LOCAL DUMP! They are saying....to others who are serving - hope you don't die because the Military doesn't care if you get home and they'll just dispose of your coffin in the dump along with leftovers from last nights dinner and used baby diapers.

Again - very tacky and not pretty...but feel the anger and the fear. If they do die fighting for our country, their bodies could end up in a dump - with no one accountable and no one taking the blame. That would make me a little disrespectful too.

REPLY: 'DLOVR1969' you are misinformed. No military bodies and coffins were disposed of in "the dump". You are confusing unidentified, cremated, partial remains (essentially ashes) with bodies in coffins. Disrespectful, I agree. However don't make it worse by making up your own facts.

Warbeast: When you join the military you are expected to uphold certain ethical behaviors while in uniform. If they wanted to exercise their first amendment rights, they should have done it on their own time. This is something they can be punished for, and most likely will be. It isn't a question of our soldiers rights, it is a question of the oath taken upon enlisting.

Re: Warbeast (#1.15)- The answer to your question is "Yes." When you sign up for the United States Armed Forces (as I did in 1988) you sign a contract. In that contract you sign a paper that says you are voluntarily forfeitting certain Constitutional rights.

That's just one of the many ironies and idiocyncracies of military life. Military personel, while defending the Constitutional rights of all Americans, DO NOT themselves enjoy all of those same rights during their term of service.

What these idiots did was a violation of a sacred trust.

17 Dishonorable Discharges are in order.

@!$%#'em.

I might be offended, if I could figure out what it is supposed to mean. On the face of it, doesn't look respectful at all. Some context could change the perspective though... as suggested, what if that phrase is something they say to refer to taking out bad guys like Osama? And if the guy in the coffin were playing the role, while the rest posed around in solidarity.

Anyway, probably got out of hand and deserves disciplinary action. Will let the military decide if it warrants a dishonorable discharge, after hearing what he point was.

I think they were making a point of the dumping of bodies, and if so, then they have lst amendment rights to make their point, and MOST of you dont want to see the flagged caskets when they come back to the US of A either. I think this is something that should be on the evening news every time the plane comes in, but NO we seem to hide that dont we?? Not fair that we cant HONOR our troops when they have to come home this way...................and so it goes...............

Perhaps, they were trying to make a point. After all, not every American sanctions mass murder and mass murderers and all the brainwashing and societal voices that glorify mass murder. After all, could it be, warring is evil?

This is a nation that imposes their beliefs and worldview on other nation's, dictates foreign policy and goes to war if they do not fall in line for, hoo rah, democracy. Yup, every youngsters dream is to be dead at 18 or 19 for -- just one more evil empire. How ironic.

We war every few years, and the enemies change like the shifts in the wind, and of course, we are one Nation Under God.

Awww come'on yall, lighten up a lil.... tis the season to eat, drink & be merry.

"Money's tight & times iz hard - so here's yer freakin Christmas card"

To quote...uh....what's his name....'Much ado about nothing....'

Poor taste, perhaps, but nothing sacred being breached...move along...nothing to see here.

If you are one of the people who think a "big chicken dinner" is in order (dishonorable discharge) please explain to me what you see as the problem.

Several of you are crying out for punishment way beyond what is called for in the UCMJ. They did not sign any paper in their enlisment package that " gave up certain constitutional rights". In fact, "I, (state your name) do solemenly swear (or afirm), that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic..." is the way I remember my oath, which I took enough to have retired with 23+years.

I was a hospital tech and the "gallows humor" that we all used to survive treating war casualties would have made most of you sick to your stomachs.

The only thing thes troops did wrong was having someone send the pic to the Air Force Times. In our ridiculously PC world now, that was the wrong thing to do.

Their commander has a right to be sad and angry that they weren't smart enough to not take a pic in the first place.

As a Life Member of the Disabled Vets of America, I urge you all to "Lighten up Francis!"

Thomas E. Dunn, MSgt, USAF (Ret)

I was a 23 years old when 500 US soldiers a week were dying in SE Asia. I was critical of our military leaders, embarrassed to wear my uniform in public and despised our country's leaders. When doing my job however, as a security analyst, I proudly did my best because my reports could make a life or death difference to another soldier or airman.

These young men are acting out against their leaders, meaning no disrespect toward the honored fallen.

I think they were making a point of the dumping of bodies, and if so, then they have lst amendment rights to make their point

Actually rude12, once you raise your right hand and take the oath, your ass belong to the government for the duration of your enlistment. You do not have any rights to speak of, particularly when it comes to freedom of speech, and speaking your mind. You can't peacefully assemble and ask for a redress of your grievances. The military is not one big summer camp.

That said, and having been in those shoes myself, young people in these circumstances do and say some pretty dumb things. I don't think they were trying to be disrespectful of fallen troops, so I don't think a DD is in order. A severe reprimand for bring embarassment upon the Air Force would be though.

To this I say very poor judgement troops, you are supposed to be Americas finest not only abroad but here at home also, this does not show that. As a veteran myself I am truely dissapointed that you did not think before taking this photo. For the rest of us Understand these men and women may have seen their brothers in arms die or get wounded in combat and this is not easy to swallow no matter how much you are counseled and sometimes soldiers look for ways to express thier grief and sorro along with frustrations, to keep from imploding and this may have been a way to do that albeit there was no thought of what the impact and repracutions could be or how it would make the families of our fallen feel. I hope that all commarades in arms will stand tall at all times and remember being a good soldier intales being honorable at all times and setting the example to the world what America is and shall be for all times. God bless please learn from your mistake.

I question why the Air Force Times (which is a military owned & operated "newspaper") would be printing the photograph, at all. Was the photo editor TRYING to stir up more controversy surrounding the mishandling of the remains ? Is the editor and/or reporter who wrote the story about the photo going to be investigated ?

As to the people in the photo, stupid (yes) but doing something deserving being thrown out of the service NO, NO, NO. Not only is that at waste of 20 good men & women, it will not prevent anyone from doing something stupid in the future. Perhaps they should be punished for their being stupid enough to allow the photo to get to the press. As many have said, if your going to be stupid, don't spread your photo's around.

To those in the service, past & present, thank you.

I'm not so sure they meant disrespectfulness. To me it means it Sucks for us Poor Bright Children who has to Enlist in Service for Education and growth. Meaning the dumber one are 4F even if was Draft as Vietnam. It Sucks to Die for Ungrateful Country Men and women as where during Vietnam. Which began as any other Civil War within country. Then shooting of American Powerman wiring the Country 60 cycle from 40 cycle Power Generations. Too upgrade the Electrical System of Vietnam. RCA linemen wore White shirts as where not too be shot at, 1952. History Sucks to be You who get upset by reminders from those who protects the Rights of all Countries not just USA. Precise Power Operator Repair Radar Missile Vietnam era Retired. P.S I joined at 17 years Old, never wanted back out. Had 3 1049 Vietnam refused. 1972 President Johnson had Heartattack after retreat surrender of Vietnam and died. God bless President Johnson!

Amazingly distasteful .. are these clowns looking for new jobs yet ?? They should be !!

considering that the air force just announced the story about dumping human remains this is very stupid to have photographed and now it is out. This just make it even more stupid and they really should have gotten rid of this. What absolute dumbasses.

The person who deserves the dishonorable discharge is the one who stirred up trouble by taking an inside joke (for whatever reason) and made it public by mailing it to Air Force Times. This was obviously a joke on one particular individual and had nothing to do with war dead. The person who stirred this up deserves a sound thrashing!

david and jeannie-there's a difference between an idiot and a dumbass?

In a world where walking down the street in Afghanistan or Iraq can lead you to being blown to pieces, or captured and beheaded, these guys were just having fun. Give them a break

What do you expect? it's the Air Force...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXQnl_99FuI&feature=relmfu

Robert: you are 2 and 0. There was indeed a body part in that horrid story disposed of in the dump, not it's ashes. And your defense of these moronic disgrace to their uniforms is not a matter of free speech...they are in UNIFORM. Their right to free speech is already abridged (or have you absolutely no concept of what military codes of conduct mean?)

lar: just having fun?? Tell the families of those killed that this absurd display of disrespect was "just having fun". Good thing you apologists are not in charge of anything.

Sometimes it's not so much volunteering to put their lives on the line to protect our way of life...but the fact they couldn't get a job anywhere else, the military accepted them, and it's a regular paycheck. Sad but true in many cases these days. Obviously not the sharpest crayons in the box there.

Catsclaw

Seems to be working for Lindsay Lohan.

REALLY? I'd say it was a bit early to make that kind of a statement.

Other than that, you had some great ideas.

Instead of discharging them immediately, make every single stinkin' one of them have to help bring home war dead and face the families, telling them what happened to their loved ones. Make them dig wounded and dead soldiers out of rubble on the front lines.

Best learning tool out there.

Jeanette-767450 - I find your comment offensive to all of our military and I will add that this is the air force. It is not easy to get in the air force; they only take the top of the line who could easily get into college or find jobs in the private sector. The photo is in poor taste and displays poor judgement but it is a very stressful job and I will not pass judgement. They did not break any civil or criminal laws (I don't know enough about military law to speculate). I find the posts screaming 'court martial' & 'dishonorable discharge' to be harsh. I would consider that unjust punishment (& no, I am not some liberal who doesn't believe in stiff sentences). Readers of this article need to know that our military is trained to be insensitive & desensitized. The sensitive are no able to kill. But it is poor judgement.

A couple of tours in Afghanistan might be justified for them!

@catsclaw, and JOregon, Maybe I misread, but THEY are the Unit that recieves the deceased, and has to do the work of getting the bodies to their families.

Stupidity is not a crime. But it could be the grounds for discharge, since the stupid should never be let anywhere near weapons and aircraft.

All those people yelling for Dishonorable Discharge dont have a clue what they are talking about. First off, its just a distasteful picture. Its not a crime. Second, do you know how "chain of command" works? Someone in or around that picture told everyone to stand there. You do what you are told. So you cant blame almost every person in that picture. And third, it was taken in Aug. So Im sure they are talking about Bin Laden. Is everyone all touchy feely about killing terrorist all of a sudden?? This is a whole bunch to do about nothing. The person writing all this crap to stir stuff up is more to blame than anyone. If you are a journalist and you cant put together simple clues to show the intent of these airmen, you should not be a journalist.

if you are talking about the white middle class as being a minority and discriminated against with regard to student loans and equal opportunity i agree, we are not represented enough in this picture. if your scorn is the distasteful childish social media BS... im sorry it will never stop.

why spend the time on an "investigation" discharge them all and bring the new boys and girls in to take their place.. this idiocy will continue forever as long as there is www.whatever.com.

Dishonorable discharges? Seriously? You people are calling for these kids to be dishonorably discharged? That's incredibly stupid. You all are worse than these kids. They did something dumb, and in bad taste. An ass chewing, some extra duty, that's all that is called for here. Kids do dumb things, especially when they are bored. As a retired NCO in the Army I can tell you, we all knew that you keep your young soldiers busy. If you don't, they will find something to do, and you probably aren't going to be happy about it. For you people's information, a dishonorable discharge is something that can only be done by a General Court Martial. It is reserved for major felonies- murder, rape, treason, desertion in the face of the enemy. It ruins a person's life. They lose their right to vote, to hold any kind of government job, or contract. It is not something done for taking a stupid bad taste photo.

What Michael said....

"Dishonerable Dishcharge" for real? What a bunch of clueless kneejerkers.

@Vince-545056 My my aren't you the liberal little flower. I didn't see any racist remarks in MacArthur's pointing out the obvious fact that the majority of the men and women in the photo ARE minorities. In fact, the senior NCO in the picture is a black woman, an E-6 it looks like. That tells you something about her fitness as a leader that she would pose in the photo. She appears to be about as competent as her C in C.

I have to agree that while the picture appears to be in poor taste, I would hazard to guess that they have not broken any regulations. The picture was as someone pointed out, probably a private joke. The military will probably be able to find some violation to discipline them with, but I doubt they will be courts martialled or discharged probably just reprimanded.

But then again with the corpse appearing to be white, and wearing chains and "a noose", maybe it was meant to intimidate a white co-worker in which case none of them will be taken to task. We all no that nooses are not threatening or offensive to white people.

Oh the politically correct mass's cry again! Who knows what it was about..certainly no one in the Air force admittedly and no one else here either. This is cause for internal investigations? Public outrage and calls for discharge? Please! The thinned skinned hypocrisy wins again! Yet there are tears of joy and shouts of gleeful derisison when a picture of any enemy real or percieved is posted all over hell and back! If you are going to be righteously outraged by the disrespect of brutality and death then how in the hell can it be righteously one sided?

Has anyone in that unit called for transfer or elected for an early discharge for being utterly offended by this? Its an inside deal and it has some meaning none of us on this site have any clue about and we deserve no explanations nor any apology whatsover! I am so sick of the apologists in this country...demanding constant satisfaction for every little thing ...despite the fact it bears no resentment or quarrel with them.

Toughen up people!

@Robert in Oregon, please. We are becoming a nanny state fast enough. This article would have meant nothing without the photo. The photo had to be published.

They are a "detachment" from Lackland Air Force Base? They are definitely detached. Psych exams for all of them. The majority of them probably shouldn't have passed the initial psych exam.

Hey, everyone notice the total absence of recruitment ads now?

...although in bad taste, i understand these folks are frustrated with Leadership that would send the remains of their fellow soldiers to a dump as if they were just garbage...again, maybe not the best way to go about it, but they got the message across now didn't they...R/

It is very easy to identify the individuals who have NO combat experience or sense of camaraderie posting in this comment section. In combat, death is looked upon as something you try to avoid but is otherwise a very real possibility, nothing more. All combat soldiers purposefully and importantly try to downplay the seriousness of death because of their immediate relationship to it. You CAN NOT be all bleeding heart pathetic and weak about it or you will go insane. These soldiers are bonding in a way that most of you can never understand in an effort to deal with an inevitability of loss among their unit. I am sick of the liberal left and like morons blowing @!$%# out of proportion and taking things out of context in an effort to try and belittle or defame someone. Get over yourselves and understand that If you are not a soldier, you should shut the hell up. My unit took FAR worse pictures than this and no one made a national case out of it. Photographs like this have been around for decades and are meant solely for personal reflection by the individuals in the photograph. As a country, you people need to toughen up a bit and stop getting your feelings hurt so easily or we are ALL doomed. With idiots such as yourselves making decisions that affect us all, we are destined to be invaded, toppled and speaking Arabic in no time at all. STOP DESTROYING MY COUNTRY!

Semaphore-This is not offensive? I bet you get offended when someone says black as opposed to African-American or Merry Christmas instead of happy holidays yet you are OK with this. I have had the horror of seeing my friends men I spent 24/7/365 die around me and such a picture is a dishonor to every single man and women who has ever given their life in the service of their country.

The military has a tradition of honor and respect and this picture spits in the face of these traditions and violates a sacred trust. Our war dead should be revered and remembered as heroes this picture and these men taint such memories. It is disgusting!!!!!

All racial and military branch jokes aside..the total responsibility falls on the Senior NCO's, from the picture it looks like there are three Staff Sgts., irregardless of their color..they are in charge and should have never allowed this to happen. Blowing off steam, inside joke whatever the case may be, you don't pose in this manner where interpretation can run rampant..horrible choices were made, now there is an instant uproar..

it is msnbc that is circulating the picture not the people in it. they didn't mean to share the photo with anyone. while in terrible taste if the news is going to circulate the photograph they are just as responsible for the outrage as if they had staged the photo themselves.

why do news companies feel as though they have no responsibility to the public anymore?

First, the Air Force Times is not owned by the military, the publisher is GANNETT News Organization.

Second, the Airmen did something stupid, and EVERY young servicemember in every branch has done something stupid within the first year. Should they be thrown out of the military - no. Will the senior airman present get a bad efficiency report, or reduced in rank for "conduct unbecoming.." maybe.

What UCMJ Article did they break? other than the NCO for "Conduct unbecoming"??

End of story.

And for those that have never served, yes you give up quite a few "constitutional rights" while serving. Such as the quarterly unannouced "operation golden flow" and peeing in the bottle in front of a witness. Try exercising your "freedom of speech" or your right to carry a concealed weapon on a military post and see how far that gets you.

And for those that are thinking about joining the military, please tell your Drill Sergeant / Instructor that you want to exercise your right of free speech..... they really have a stressful job and need humor in their daily lives.

I can't believe no one is getting the message these Airmen are trying to deliver. With the current investigations going on now about how the Air Force dumped soldier body parts in the public landfill, I think the message is pretty clear and to the point. It seems like the commanders are more pissed off at this photo than there were about soldiers body parts thrown in the landfill and not given a respectful burial. The Air Force should be ashamed of how they disposed of the soldiers body part and not thrown them in the landfill. The commander should be held accountable for the dump run and these airmen in the picture are just making sure that it doesn't not go unnoticed. Pretty plain and simple to me. The Air Force are a group of bumbling idiots. You heard it right. IDIOTS.

As stressed as our military men and women have been and given the current circumstances and investigations into wrong doings much worst than this, I would find it a better photo if all involved were turned around, pants down and rear ends exposed with a caption that read "kiss our asses!" I give a rats ass about some f'n ethos, they're f'n human beings that deserve respect for serving. And all the KIA, MIA family members on here posting what a disgrace it is, should really come off your high horses, lots of people serving or not, die every day all over America doing far less and some much more. We're all in the line of fire and no one is promised tomorrow. Peace and may God bless!!!

I'll point out that several times in the article it was stated that they aren't sure if any regulation was broken. Granted, you have Article 134 which the "catch-all" article in the UCMJ. Dishonorable or BCD, no.

And as far as the Air Force taking only the best and brightest, what recruiting poster did you read that lie on? I was Navy and had the misfortune of being assigned to an Air Force base. Please...

I agree this is retarded behavior, but exactly what charge under UCMJ could you possibly hold a successful court martial. Likely these jokers will be disciplined in unit, but I don't know of any law or UCMJ code they broke....they took a picture, with a casket, and somebody photoshopped sucks to be you on it. All the outrage in the world is not going to change the reality of the situation.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. It's this just a form of freedom of speech? Isn't that what these people are supposedly preserving? Our rights?

Why are we so afraid of death or the image of death? I don't think this photo is dishonorable. I didn't see it that way.

You'd be surprised how many "rights" you actually don't have after you take that oath and sign the contract Sharktopussie. Military life is totally different that the real world. Self expression is generally frowned upon in all branches of service.

: ( How sad.

JKiff

@!$%#'em.

Aren't you late for class or something? Do your parents know you've been playing on their computer?

You allow kids that aren't even old enough to drink a beer to enlist in the armed services and you send them overseas and you don't think they are going to do stupid s***?

While this is in extreme poor taste, I am thinking the military will punish them severely for it. The military exerts far more control over peoples lives than in the civilian world. In my opinion, slap their wrists and let it go. If they were making some point about the dumping of body parts, they were not considering how this would effect the families that lost those soldiers.

William Macarthur -- IF that is your name....... Since you obviously blame every horrible thing on "minorities", perhaps you will explain why there are ALWAYS a bunch of oh-so-racially-superior WHITE FOLK involved in this sort of trailer-trash garbage. WHITE FOLK either join in, condone what is done or sit back and just do nothing to stop it.

Come on, William Macarthur, please explain it to all of us. IF you can.

Sharktopussie, IF the photo had been produced with some sort of context to how the people in it are posed, MAYBE there would not have been such an uproar over it. So just who are they saying it sucks to be, the guy pretending to be dead -- just dead soldiers in general? Just WHO is the message aimed at?

I can think of only ONE reason such a photo would ever be taken, let alone distributed: A "Discharge Party". The problem is that IF this is what this photo is all about, it is in EXTREMELY poor taste and considering the job this unit is assigned to do -- it should never have been even done to start with. They may have laughed when the photo was taken, but I guarantee they ain't laughing now.

WarBeast.... You obviously do NOT know what the Constitution of The United States of America actually says concerning "Freedom of the Press", let alone "freedom of expression". For one thing, neither the main body of the Constitution nor the "Bill of Rights" make any mention of any "right to freedom of expression" given to any individual. For another thing, that "Freedom of the Press" clause in the "Bill of Rights" covers those who write and speak out about/against the GOVERNMENT -- not staged photographs such as the one this article is about.

I suggest that you put down the beer and pizza, turn off the TV -- and get yourself to the nearest Law Library so you can do some proper research on Constitutional Law. Better yet, sign yourself up for a 4-year stint in the U.S. Armed Forces; you'll have plenty of time and opportunity to learn exactly what is contained in the Constitution of The United States of America.

Hawgwild-4223901, you must never have heard about how even the lowliest soldier in the U.S. Military is allowed to deliberately disobey an UNLAWFUL order, or even an order which has the APPEARANCE of being unlawful and/or disrespectful to specific others......... That "but I was only following orders" has failed to save even Generals, so why would it save an Airman 1st Class?

As to the assumption that the photo refers to how Osama binLaden was dumped in the ocean, well.... Why have the guy posing as binLaden wear a U.S. MILITARY UNIFORM and why have him NOT wear a fake beard? How friggin' stoopit can ya be?

today the war in iraq is over. on bloomberg news they had the following data:

$826,000,000,000 in costs

over 4000 american soldiers DEAD

over 30,000 american soldiers WOUNDED which entails billions of dollars in further costs!

and you people are concerned about a silly picture you were never meant to see. and data that is available for you to see you ignore.

sadly, how typical.

Quacked One, are you suggesting that individual Americans do not have an express right to freedom of speech and expression? What about all this so called freedom I keep hearing about? What exactly is our military fighting for, if not freedom? (I'm sure cynics have plenty of answers to that one, none of them appealing) Are you suggesting it would be good if everyone realized they didn't actually have any individual freedom under the American Constitution and Bill of Rights? I know you are talking letter of the law, not the spirit... but I'm pretty sure I am terrified of your version of America.

rude12-4625900

I think this is something that should be on the evening news every time the plane comes in, but NO we seem to hide that dont we?? Not fair that we cant HONOR our troops when they have to come home this way.

While the sentiment is appreciated, a lot of us family members do not want our loved ones being on the front pages or on the evening news, we mourn privately, and we don't want the likes of the Cindy Sheehan's, code stink people, WBC, etc using their images for their warped senses, I'm sure Cindy's son would feel disrespected that his mother was using his image to against something he was probably honored to do.

I'm not speaking for all military, but I'm speaking for myself, my family, and other military wives I know personally who feel the same way.

That being said, I believe in freedom of speech of course, but this was distasteful no matter the circumstances surrounding it.

Mr R

@catsclaw, and JOregon, Maybe I misread, but THEY are the Unit that recieves the deceased, and has to do the work of getting the bodies to their families.

No Sir they're a training squadron,

the 345th Training Squadron provides enlisted training courses in Air Transportation, Traffic Management, Supply Management, Logistics Plans, Contracting, Recruiting, Vehicle Maintenance and Hazardous Materials. Officer training is provided through the Logistics Readiness Officer course.

william whittemore-3007421

I can't believe no one is getting the message these Airmen are trying to deliver. With the current investigations going on now about how the Air Force dumped soldier body parts in the public landfill, I think the message is pretty clear and to the point.

Considering the picture was taken back in August and the "Sux to be you" caption, I'm thinking it's more of a "tribute" to the killing of Bin Laden, they didn't even know about the unidentifiable cremated body parts that were thrown in the landfill yet.

What would you suggest ups,fedex?

The Marines

What would you suggest ups,fedex?

US Army or US Marines

I doubt you would find such a picture amongst combat arms units.

Leave it to the air farce. Anyone in that picture E-6 and above should be booted, E-5/E-4 reduced to PFC and privates verbally reprimanded.

I would assign an honor guard to each and give them a ROE to kick the living #%$@ out of anyone being disrespectful.

I have to admit, that's exactly what I would expect from a Jarhead,

Lets not forget that these are youngsters blowing off steam, don't get your panties in a big wad Gunny

Ghost< I believe it was a army guy that posed with dead Afghan people that he murdered.

pathetic. let all of these smug people in the pix be transferred into Iraq today, then as a group, be the last to walk out two hours behind the last troops leaving the war zone.

I'm with you Jumpmaster82.

US Army or US Marines

I doubt you would find such a picture amongst combat arms units.

Leave it to the air farce. Anyone in that picture E-6 and above should be booted, E-5/E-4 reduced to PFC and privates verbally reprimanded.

I would assign an honor guard to each and give them a ROE to kick the living #%$@ out of anyone being disrespectful.

Disagree. Stupidity knows no branch of service. Spoken from experience

I have to admit, that's exactly what I would expect from a Jarhead,

Lets not forget that these are youngsters blowing off steam, don't get your panties in a big wad Gunny

And this is the response I'd expect from a chair jockey. Get with the program, Airman.

Jumpmaster82 What stress??? These airmen are in a TRAINING COMMAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A freaking AIRFORCE TRAINING COMMAND at that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the Air Force "Services??" course where they learn such things as MORTUARY AFFAIRS. HMMMM kind of interesting. I do recall there is a current scandle where AIF FORCE MORTUARY AFFAIRS folks were sending body parts to be incenerated then to a common landfill. Looks like these airmen are bound to be treating the dead with respect, NOT. As for youngsters...There are at least 3, E6 and above in the photo. This would mean they are likely instructors.

While their actions were despicable, tasteless and low class they most likely don't violate any articles of the UCMJ. That being said, there is nothing keeping their wing commander from making life just as miserable as possible for all of those involved. If it were up to me they would wish they were being prosecuted.

Shucks, muh grades wernt good enuff to git in the USAF.

As a Vietnam combat veteran myself, all I have to say to all of you "give them a DD!!" types, is you MIGHT want to THINK about finding out about what this was all about before you start spewing. The over-spray is a bit much.

IF there was a real body in there, I'd be all for it- but there isn't. Take a deep breath and let it out....

All of you ex-military should know better. But then, of course I'm SURE all of you NEVER did anything like get drunk, smoke a joint, get into a fight, or do anything to disgrace" the uniform. Probably just sat around studying the regs and polishing your rifles, 24/ 7 , right? The Army and Marine Corps are famous for following the rules, aren't they?

If you all want to get exercised about something, how about the stupid rules our troops have had to deal with on the front. The stupid politicians that get get them killed, along with the pols over-reaching, grasping greed. The lack of jobs for them when they get home. Those type of things get me going.

Some troops screwing around? I hope their commanders give them a big wink, a good yelling at, and then takes them all out for a beer.

@RitDog

I tend to agree with you.

Regarding Marines ... I personally have known WAY too many who were wife and child beaters. Oooh-RAW! (< Sarcasm) Low-life scum exists in ALL branches of our armed forces. But I'll tell you one thing, as a woman I would NEVER get involved with a Jarhead because I value my life and body too much to put it in harm's way. I HAVE been involved with former Army and Navy guys ... one who couldn't commit (Army Airborne) and one who was abusive (Navy FTG-1). I personally grew up in the AF as an officer's brat. My father served during Vietnam and my uncle was a helicopter pilot during Vietnam. My grandfather on that side was in the Navy on the USS Saratoga during WWII. I honestly would think was an ENLISTED problem except that I can remember one specific MARINE OFFICER who regularly beat his wife and children on my street when I was in Middle and High School.

All branches in the service have their place. ALL branches have defective units. Leave your mis-placed "Marine Pride" in your rectum where it belongs. You can't say that this is limited to every branch EXCEPT Marines... there's plenty of shame in ALL branches of the Military.

Rit .. I was one of those who were being a bit hostile concerning the actions these troops are displaying! Having been there in the late 60's as a ground troop in Viet Nam I see your point. But disrespect is still direspect and they need to be disciplined. Then move on and deal with the rules of engagement. They need some attention as they did in the late 60's .. IMHO

Ritdog-908299 - Thank you. Take a deep breath and let it out.... My son is USMC and though I am shocked & appalled at some of the things they do for fun, they're usually drunk & aren't trying to hurt or intentionally offend anyone. I can not begin to imagine how stressful their job is. All posters need to walk a mile in their boots before they judge. & for the folks who are posting who've walked in those boots, as Ritdog said, "All of you ex-military should know better. But then, of course I'm SURE all of you NEVER did anything like get drunk, smoke a joint, get into a fight, or do anything to disgrace" the uniform."

Get a grip people! Should they have take a pic like this? Hell no! Did they have a lapse in judgement? Hell yea! I would be willing to bet that everybody who reads this is PERFECT and has never done anything they wish they could take back! I know I would take a lot of stupid things back( like reading and posting on this message board), but here we are, blemishes and all. Let the rants continue!!

There are several NCO's in the photo and they should all get a written reprimand or at the very worst an article 15, Non-Judicial-Punishment" for Conduct That Could Bring Discredit On The Air Force while the airmen involved should be verbally reprimanded. It is clear to see that this is a group of people who are in training and the Airmen would have been in the Air Force for two months or a little more. I do have to say as a Senior NCO who was a Sergeant in Viet Nam who was in Air Cargo Transportation, as it appears these troops might be, I saw much worst than this by members of all branches while in the war zone. I will say for FormerMarineSgt that some of the worst things I saw in the war was committed by Marines and they were very proud of it. I don't like to cast stones at members of other services but you cast the first stone. I would never expect instructors who were NCOs to allow such in training but after a couple of tours in Nam I would expect about anything. This was very distasteful. Disabled Viet Nam vet, First Sergeant, retired SMSgt.

Pic was taken in August.... you think it might have something to do with Bin Laden's death?

If so, this pic takes on a whole different meaning. For some reason I don't think even the kneejerkers on here have a huge problem with celebrating the death of Osama.

Context - context.

Did anyone ever stop to think that the Air Force put this picture out to get the general public off their ass for the disrespectful way that they handled the remains that ended up in the landfill? It's not terribly often that the Air Force ends up in the news, but when they do AND they look bad, it's time to divert the attention elsewhere, like to the soldiers who had no idea that they would be the fall guy til the morning Air Force Times hit the barracks steps.

I have a strong distaste for people who don't have a clue but talk like they know it all. I currently find myself as an active part of the military lifestyle now adays. My boyfriend is Army (deployed) and his older brother is Marine Corp (deployed) and I come from a long family line of military(mostly Marines and Navy). While I understand that there are inside jokes and most of them are far from politically correct and I am guilty of getting laughs from them as any soldier or person who knows a soldier there is still a definit line that you never cross not even in a joke as a soldier. This would be one of those times they crossed the line. I am not easily offended by any stretch, but having two active duty boys that I love and care about in hostile countries...one of which is currently fighting to save soldiers lives so they don't have to come home to their families in that box (Hooah to all the Whiskey's out there)....This absoulutely offends me. As for those of you trash talking soldiers and how they are abusive and all that other crap. Shut up! Yeah, there are some bad guys who wear that unifrom, but do not ditract from the thousands of good men and women who put on those uniforms everyday by focusing soley on the crappy ones or lumping them all together. I've met some bad people who wear the unifrom, but they are far fewer then the amazing and wonderful Marines and soldiers I've met and have had the oppertunity and privlege to know. And to those good soldiers I say Hooah and Semper Fi...thanks guys.

This cr#p starts at the top and trickles down.. All branches of the military are like a family, the children learn from and imitating the older sibling or parent.. So the behavior of the NCO's or command officers to me would be in question.. The lack of respect or spirit directly comes from above in the chain of command.. These airmen and there superiors need a trip to Afghanistan..

One look at the commander in chief aka President Obama and you can tell where the attitude comes from.. This is a guy with the highest office in the U.S. and he has a lack of respect for the entire country and flag.. Just a bit to limp in the arms to put his hand over his heart during national anthems or ceremonies.. In the business of running the country the troops are just tools and those that pay with their lives or are wounded in action are just costs on a ledger.. I think President Ron Regan was the last commander in chief who really held reverence for the office, nation, constitution and what it stands for.. This politically correct corporate controlled fascist ideals that have crept over us over the past 50 years is a disease that threatens our very way of life.. Take the flag and pledge of allegiance out of the schools because it offends someone and this is what you reap.. If it offends them then get the fu$k out of our country.. If the Christian majority offends you, well you can go too.. Better to respect each others beliefs then to sue your will onto the majority..

This is by far not the worst thing I have seen and surely wont be the last.. Wars and death have a way of making life cheep since the dawn of time.. A few beers or just a group of people joking around and someone dares you, sounds like junior high..

No one loves a good joke/prank more so than I. I have been acused of making very tastless and untimely jokes on many occasions, but never would I cross this line. These people are susposed to uphold the highest level of dignity and respect for our war dead. How can posing as a bunch of clowns contribute in any manner to their sole purpose? I know it is a job that gets little praise and recognition but this is not the way to advertise.

Shuklack if that is the case and this is a context issue portraying Bin Laden or Qaddafi or Hussein then simple stupidity is at hand.. A piece of paper with that name scribbled on it and laying on his chest would have gotten them off the hook.. Like pictures of dead outlaws from the old west.. Someone made a good point that this is to distract the media from other mistakes like the politicians do to us daily.. Whether they push conduct unbecoming on them for DD or just adjust their attitudes in the way only the military can do is out of their hands now..

I kind of agree with Shuklack, it could in fact be an effigy of Osama bin Laden, would explain the chains and the noose. Would be less confusion if they put a towel on his head though.

It was in bad taste for sure. There is nothing funny about the air force dumping American soldiers body parts in the garbage dump at all. So the co's are pissed huh. Well every dam American citizen should be pissed at the air force period.

And every person in America should be even more pissed that most of these fine soldiers died in Iraq.Not one soldier should have even stepped foot in Iraq. That was a Bush sr problem. Not a Bush jr and Haliburton Dick Channey problem. All these 2 idiots acomplished was run the US in the ground and start 2 wars. And in the end they put us in a spot to be the most hated people ever. They invited more people to come here and blow crap up with there money schemes. Because deep down if I lived over there and my family was killed for no good reason. I would be in the US buyin time.And Im sure some are. So instead of fighting a losing battle over there. How about coming home to protect American citizens.

All we did was allow the muslim brotherhood more of a chance to gain power. As well as Iraq

I see all the outrage on this page about a tasteless photo demanding investigations and court martials etc.

WHERE is your outrage and demands for investigations into the lies told by the people that started the Iraq war.

Yours is the best comment on this page, thanks !

“I can only tell you the wing commander was disappointed to see something like that because it does not meet our values or ethos...
Smith said it’s unclear what the intent of the photo was"

LMAO...the intent is pretty darn clear to me and I see their point. Values? Ethos? You mean like burying your war dead at the dump? The only crime they commited is calling attention to the massive evil and corruption that permeates the top level decision makers in our country.

"Air Force Times noted the photo surfaced one month after the public disclosure that the Air Force’s Port Mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., had lost and mishandled the remains of hundreds of fallen troops. Dover is the first stop on American soil for troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. An investigation found "gross mismanagement" at the mortuary, and the Air Force later acknowledged it had dumped cremated partial remains of at least 274 troops into a Virginia dump."

"Such behavior is not consistent with our core values..."
Our core values of keeping silent about bringing our dead warriors to the dump. This clown is something else.

Air Force Times noted the photo surfaced one month after the public disclosure

key words being surfaced and public, the photo was taken back in August I think I'll stick to it being an effigy of Bin Laden, especially with the "sux to be you"

Oh for Chrissakes, here we go with this stupid argument? Please don't be so patronizing as you sit there at home probably never having served, because those who have don't make those idiotic comments. They aren't on YOUR payroll buddy, I'm about 100% sure of that... They are sick morons yes, and as a former Marine, I'm ashamed of the AF for this, but the military does not have the market cornered on morons. Next time you get pulled over for speeding, tell the cop you pay him too, I'd like to see the video of how that turns out.

If they serve the united states, they are on the payroll of every US citizen. Point is, we have to be better than this. No excuses, no whining, no justification. Yes, there actually is a bar below which we can't go in the name of "fun".

If you're going there, how about all the politicians on our payroll?? Most have done much worse. Yet, only a few are "fired".

Because we all know the politicians who posted pictures of the schlongs online (Anthony Weiner, anyone?) are so much more respectful of their taxpayer funded jobs. <sarcasm>

Really everyone needs to calm down. It was a joke. and it's just become something 4 months later so clearly they hadn't intended on someone seeing it. That job is stressful as hell. My dad did things in Iraq probably almost as stupid along with the rest of his friends. Complain about what they do after you dodge the bullets or take one. They are ready to die for the country, and joke about how THEY would die and you guys get all mad? stupid.

I would suggest that you complain too much, there is no message, no mocking or protesting just youngsters doing what they do.

No one was disrespected, this type of dead mans humour has been around forever.

No one knows if they have committed any crime, give them extra duty and tell them to be careful with their cameras, we cannot afford to throw these youngsters away, Can we???

I would say whatever they are doing it's showing cohesion for their team or unit

Jumpmaster you are the first person i have seen comment on here with any common sense

Kudos

It would of been nice to have the answers printed with the story. Instead another rush to get a photo out only to stir up controversy. Tasteless media!

I agree with the Jumpmaster ... in a combat zone we sometimes dealt with what was called dark humor... If you haven't been there you could not possibly understand it.

5th Special Forces, RVN, 67-69

They ARE protesting...protesting that dead veterans' bodies are misplaced and being dumped in a local dump instead of Arlington or local military cemetaries. This is a protest, people....a badly planned, horribly tacky, very vulgar, ugly, disrespectful protest, but a protest against the very military that they work for.

Jumpmaster:

Let me know when you die. I'll be happy to come and sh.. on your grave, literally. Shouldn't really bother anyone should it? I know it would build cohesion in a group I belong to.

Jumpmaster quite right, I was AF EOD for 21 years. If some of the antics that we did to relieve stress during the first Gulf excursion came to light all of these lily livered pansies would really freak out. If you ain't been there you should just shut the f@#k up.

DLOVR1969, I don't remember reading anything about BODIES being misplaced and/or dumped in a landfill. I DID read about unidentified and unidentifiable body parts (some I would assume from suicide bombers who took our people's lives) incinerated and the ashes dumped. The BODIES were placed into caskets and received military honors with burial. The unidentified parts (fingers, toes, probably not even a whole hand as it could have been identified by fingerprints) were burned. No big deal! We sailors (20 year disabled vietnam vet) have been dumping bodies in the ocean for centuries. And guess what else we dump in the ocean! Disrespect in only in the mind and if the disrespect is there all the ceremony in the world won't change it.

Tiger: when all else fails...blame the media. Run a story about a controversial photo without the photo for people to judge? Wait and hold the story AND the photo until the military makes these idiots available to speak? I don't think so...

Maybe we should be bitching at the writer of this story for doing a piss poor job. There are a lot of missing facts in this article. Perhaps it's designed that way so that hundreds of people will get online and argue, disrespect each other and the people being written about. In fact just about every story I've read for the last few months has been just as incomplete and poorly done as this one. Did you all read the story titled "the angry commentors". Expect to see part 2 soon. Likely it will go in depth regarding strong opinions, differing opinions and the rude and nasty way we treat each other, make snap judgements about all most everything, drag politics into every story and on and on. THe fact is this military personnel are human beings 1st, the are just as fallable as the rest of us, we have know idea what they go thru, we try to judge cause they're state side, none of us knows who they are or where they may have already served. NONE OF US KNOW WHY THEY DID THIS!! DUMB to take a photo of it HELL YEAH!! deserving for pretty much all the punishments mentioned tonight HELL NO. We have American teenagers doing far worse than this on a daily basis who don't get near the punishment you all want to give for an action we know nothing about. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, or maybe even being allowed to defended yourself before being tried and found guilty by the court of public opinion. Some of you all need to get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brucewilliams,

Why wait for my death, come @!$%# on me now and we'll see who's casket gets in the next photo.

I have no ideal why your so sensitive in this conversation, but I lost 9 members in an incident, I've got a wife that currently serves. Apparently you don't understand the camaraderie, I assure you that if you are caught in one of OUR "Americas" cemeteries @!$%#ting on anything, YOU will wish you were Bin Laden, Already Dead.

Jumpmaster, my thanks to you and your wife for your service, from someone whose family has served in every branch of the military and knows where you're coming from.

I also posted above, but I'll repeat it here: The picture is from August and a few people did make the connection to Bin Laden. Think about it, people - "Da Dumpt, Da Dumpt" = the opening theme from Jaws. "Sucks 2 be U" - well, it did suck to be Bin Laden after Navy Seal Team 6 got done with him and he was dumped to feed the fishies, didn't it?

The amount of people here who either didn't fully read the article or just ignored that pertinent little fact is astronomical - and embarrassing.

If you are going to allow kids that aren't even old enough to drink a beer, to enlist in the armed services, and then send them overseas (most of the time it's the first time they've been away from home) - you are going to have to expect they are going to do stupid stuff.

Thanks Freedom72,

Let's keep things in perspective and respond accordingly!

Merry Christmas to all and Happy NEW YEAR, I can only hope!

That "hell hole"? It's Dover, not Afghanistan!

This is no different than cops and firemen using black humor to relieve tension. These are young men and women who might be going to that 'hell hole' and possibly dying. It's the same as a fireman calling a burned body a crispy critter -- no disrespect intended at all to those who have died. They're just trying to maintain their own sanity and reduce their own fears.

These guys weren't blowing off steam in the middle of a war zone. They are in Virginia. And it appears that they are in a supply warehouse, by the looks of it. I have no idea what message they were trying to convey, but obviously they failed miserably! I would speculate that it was a going away photo for one of the Airman that was leaving, or maybe a prank towards someone who was getting married. It looks like the whole shop is there, including the TSgt in the front row. While it might have been funny for the insiders of the joke, it certainly doesn't translate the same to the other 8 million people outside their circle.

commonsensedude and Lisa: What would your excuse be for the person/persons who approved throwing the cremated body parts of 274 soldiers in the dump? "Black humor to relieve tension" or maybe "No harm and no disrespect to their bros in arms, just a little tension reliever"???? I'm afraid that if your attitudes are what is going on in the Air Force these days we need to rethink how things are done. In the original article the only chagrin was in the very last sentence that indicated that if people at that level did things like this picture it would make the officers at the top 'look bad'!!!! Still not the right response. No one seems to be concerned about how these troops are being treated in death.

Commonsense, obviously you've never worn a uniform of any branch nor have you ever been subject to any discipline short of a timeout when you were six.

Outside of pilots, no one in the Air Force actually dies in combat. Not since Vietnam, anyway. These clowns have probably never seen a war or a war zone. I suggest putting them on the first flight out to Kandahar. Let's see if these 16 clowns still think their stunt is clever. Make them work triage at a field hospital. Would be happy to recommend you to join your 20 year old bros in some heavy lifting for your country.

Adopted,

While I wholeheartedly concur with you that this photo is an absolute disgrace, Airmen other than pilots have indeed died. Security Forces members on a variety of duties (many "outside the wire"), OSI agents and others. No disrespect to my brothers in the Army and Marines, but just wanting to correct a misstatement.

JTAC personell are in the line of fire and I remember reading about a Navy pilot talking to a JTAC on the ground who ended up getting killed.

Their are alot of jobs in all the branches that won't see combat. But each branch does have a job that will have you on the frontlines. Simply because it is the Air Force doesn't mean they don't have anyone that dies in combat.

10th MTN - OEF VII

CavSgt and AJV222, I stand corrected. I fully respect and take nothing away from any soldier who has given his or her life in the defense of our country and in the defense of our allies. I meant to say that they haven't died in numbers, not that a single AF personnel life hasn't been lost in combat. Thanks for clarifying.

AdoptedAmerican, while you may be correct in your assumption that the people in the photo haven't seen a war zone, you're way off base with your other remarks. No one in the Air Force actually dies in combat? You need to do some research into the kinds of jobs our Airmen are doing out there. Aside from those in numerous specialties whose actual jobs expose them to combat, MANY Airmen are tasked to fill shortages in Army units. And yes, they are being killed in combat. Do a little research. It isn't hard to find out how many casualties come from each branch of service. And each one is tragic.

As far as the photo goes, I cannot imagine what they were thinking. It's totally callous and disrespectful to families who've had someone come home in a casket.

Fro those who are suggesting that it was "black humor" or protesting the mishandling of remains, this was an extremely poor way to do it. Taking a picture of one of them lying in the dump might have hit a bit closer to the mark, while still being disrespectful. This was wrong, plain and simple.

Wed. 12/14/11

Here's what I want to believe. Those photos are made by Our Enemy to promote HATE & DISTRUST

within the Ranks of Our Military. I don't want to believe that Members of the United States Air Force could Be so Damned STUPID ! What the Hell were they thinking ?

IF it is proven these photos are from the U S Air Force then those Airmen should be Dishonorably Discharged immediately.

SPW "ARMY Airborne All the Way"

Eric, yes, I think I cleared that up.

Here is the current info according to the Washington Post, which updates daily: 6303 service deaths in the two combat theaters. 650 of those are non-combat deaths and another are 800 are accidental deaths. Of the total 6303, 128 have been Air Force personnel. That is still 128 too many.....

Way to back peddle!

Tiger's-I know, I'd make a good GOP presidential candidate, right?

25 AF pilots died early on in the Iraq war when the U.S. was waging a conventional war. I mentioned this as the reason for most AF combat deaths. Most of the other AF combat deaths occurred when the AF began assuming security roles for the Army as pointed out by Cav Sgt, AJV and Eric above.

AA

You sure were quick to sput off about something you knew nothing about, or totally disregarded. I'd say right in line w/your liberal ways.

So you are corrected, again.

You liberal clowns make me laugh that you might consider it real discipline when your dominatrix whips you just so you can perform.

I will repeat something I said earlier. The person who deserves our ire is the troublemaker who took a previously unpublished picture and emailed it to the Air Force Times. This person's actions have done nothing but cause dissension amongst the readers. I might also reserve some ire for the Air Force Times editor who opted to make a story from this.

AA made a stupid mistake but you NOcommonsensedude are full of it marking him as a liberal. WAR to the troops is not a liberal or conservative issue only to the politicians. In Viet Nam it was the Democrats who got us into that nonsense war while in Iraq and Afghanistan it was the Republicans. In the case of this waste of our military the conservatives are screaming because Obama brought the troops home on the date that Bush negotiated. Take your head out of your as s please.

Anyone who has actually worn a uniform, knows that soldiers have been using "sick humor" and "gallows humor" since Alexander The Great days. It's a coping mechanism to relieve stress, blow off steam, and cope with all the B.S. you deal with on a daily basis, as well as the death of friends, mayhem, carnage on the battlefield. Yes, just what we need, more arm-chair quarterbacks slamming the troops.

If there is one thing that is made clear by this article is no one knows the meaning behind this article. This could be a in unit joke, that some @!$%# sent to the Air Force times. It may not mean anything, because honestly nobody knows what context this is even in. It could be a be some sort of "black humor" intended for a member of the unit or another group. This kind of humor is prevalent in all branches of service. I remember my first week in the Army, at reception, someone was asking us what our MOS were, in a large auditorium, while we were waiting for shots or something. I told him that I was supposed to do learn Explosive Ordinance Disposal, his response in front of nearly 200 people, "sucks to be you" It got a pretty big laugh.

"

They likely weren't thinking. Our military is made up of young people. And young people make wrong decisions. This is a very unfortunate one.

MT-512899, the person on the extreme right as you look at the picture is a TSgt - someone who has been in at least 10 years probably. I wonder about the ones in flight suits. If they are officers then they are probably at least 1st Lieutenants and probably Captains, again not exactly youngsters. An E-6 is supposed to have some sense and not allow stupid stunts like this.

A retired TSgt.

T&SSgts. all NCO'S posing with air transport trainee students. Smart NCO's...not! The crossed arms mean...Cargo Loaded!

Tiger's: thanks for the heads up on the crossed arms.

I do note that most of the negative commentators are also critical of the verbage and spelling on the note, not realizing that the note is "texting a message". It just makes you realize the breadth of the lack of understanding which exists between the generation fighting our current war and many of those who are older.

How many tours did you do in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I really doubt these shots are as bad as shots from previous wars.

No, but it seems there are a lot more cameras and a lot less sense in our young servicemen and women today. Here's a tip, don't spill the milk!

Less sense in the servicemen and women today??! Just stop talking, your age is showing.

You are obviously a bitter old man who has no children or you're divorced and your children hate you for being a prick. If you think you're generation is so much better than mine, why don't you do something about your debt.

I'm not mad, but all the bitter old people need to wake up. You're 90% of these cable news network's viewership and they make large amounts of money off you with their scare tactics.

MPV, you are obviously a very disturbed individual. I am one of the "bitter old people" you spew your gut about. Why don't we "do something about your debt"? Well sonnyboy, its NOT "our" debt. It's those idiotic "young uns" who fight back and forth across the aisle every day in Congress who are the cause of the debt. It's THEM who are taking away senior citizens freedoms...more every day. It's THEM who decide on what the old people get or don't get, what the single moms get or don't get. YOU on the other hand are of an age when you can get off your dead ass and DO SOMETHING for your country. I have lost my dad, my brother, countless uncles and cousins in wartime. So do NOT place your hatred of old people at the front of your mind. You are way off base. Now grow up sonny..and DO SOMETHING to help your country. Quitchubitchin!!!!!

How many tours did you do in Iraq and Afghanistan?

5. 3 in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan. I've seen worse

I agree. I've seen worse from relatives and friends who came back (that is, those that did come back) from Viet Nam.

You are obviously a bitter old man who has no children or you're divorced and your children hate you for being a prick. If you think you're generation is so much better than mine, why don't you do something about your debt.

I'm not mad, but all the bitter old people need to wake up. You're 90% of these cable news network's viewership and they make large amounts of money off you with their scare tactics.

Actually, I am 27 and politically abstinent. I have outstanding credit and understand the dangers of spiraling uncontrollably into debt. I am better and smarter than everyone I know, including idiots who pose in front of caskets and post those photos with silly captions on the internet, or hipsters protesting in tents in front of high rise buildings. I may, in fact, embody the attitudes of my generation much better than you could ever imagine. My attitude about this photo is that while I respect our young servicemen and women for their hard work and sacrifice, they should be acting professionally in the public eye.

Anyway thanks for your kind words. You seem like a really happy, well-adjusted person.

most of your sgts today are stil only 20=28

Any photo taken in today's digital age has the potential to be posted on a public site. how many times have we seen photos intended only for personal viewing".

A good friend who was a top paramedic posed in a sheet. not knowing this, person, many voiced outrage to the point he was fired. Why is it such an outrage in the private sector and passed off as a childish prank in the military?

Either case who be handled with a disciplinary action. Dishonorable discharge?? A lifelong anchor around your neck for a lapse in judgment? no way. when did everyone become so perfect to demand such a response.

No doubt the Air Force will offer a apology to those who lost family members for this incident.

I do and it is not any form of humor. It is sad that some can rationalize this type of behavior. What have we become? Is everything OK if it relieves stress? I don't think so. I never saw this type of junk in my almost 30 years in the AF.

Diane --

Puhleeze yourself. These are not deployed soldiers. They are stationed stateside. There is no excuse for this behavior.

Diane..you are SOOOOOOO wrong. these morons have never been deployed. they work right here on a USA base. I think they SHOULD be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan and I mean IMMEDIATELY! They are 15 morons who have far too damn much time on their hands...they need to be scrubbing toilets and peeling potatoes for the next five years 24/7. The ONLY stress these morons have is to decide to use a knife or a vegetable peeler for their KP duty.

Diane..you are SOOOOOOO wrong. these morons have never been deployed.

I don't see anything in the article that says they were never deployed.

CMSGTRETIRED I, a SMSgtRetired, saw much worse during my times in Viet Nam and during my 27 years in the Air Force. I'm shocked that you did not see anything so gross yourself. Were you ever in a combat zone and what were you doing to be so sheltered. In my almost 15 years as a First Sergeant I helped discharge a number of personnel for much worse including three Airman for Grave Robbing. We also Court-Martialed a TSgt for video taping himself having sex with his two daughters starting when they were each five years old. MF got 30 years in Leavenworth and reduction to E1 with a DD. That doesn't count the NCO Court-Martialed for shipping over 50 pounds of drugs into Japan on an Air Force aircraft. So don't think every Air Force person is an Angel or that something worse isn't right around the corner. I guess that I was a First Sergeant for too long and saw too much.

the dead dont care.

So, Gnelson: You'd give 'em a DD. Well, its probably good that you are a "former" enlisted and never were an officer who had to make decisions about what merits a court martial and what merits adminstrative discipline.

dirp101 Having been a First Sergeant for almost 15 years and had the duty of recommending the proper discipline to Commanders (Officers) I'll tell you for sure Senior NCOs know a hell of a lot more about the proper punishment for enlisted persons than most officers ever will. When one of my troops did something wrong I always asked his or her supervisor, NCO, how they recommended the offense be handled and consulted with the legal office if needed before the commander got involved.

Janice - Let me know just who's getting out alive.....

The 345 Training Squadron is made up of the Services and Transportation schoolhouses. The Services Schoolhouse is made up of the Services Apprentice Course (AFSC 3M031), Fitness Specialist Course (Resident), Fitness Specialist Course (Mobile), Food Service Shift Leader Course, and Activity Managers Course. The Transportation Schoolhouse is made up of the Traffic Management Apprentice Course (AFSC 2T031), Air Transportation Apprentice Course (AFSC 2T231), and Hazardous Materials Courses (HazMat Preparer and HazMat Airlift Inspector).

OMG! The horror! I doubt any of these individuals have had to cope ....

Jake, they're not new recruits, this is training within the Air Force. The NCOs are crossing their arms to indicate the Cargo is Loaded.

This was endorsed by Newt Ginrich, it was on his web page, say US Troops letting of Steam after a long drawn out out war. Goe on to say this is a stress breaker and nothing else. That is Newt for those who support him. This is a calm statement from Newt, but that is him in the flesh!!

Justkruzin, wow, now there's some credibility.....

This is the same guy who avoided the draft for Vietnam by getting one deferment after another until he was over 26 yrs of age in which case they couldn't draft him. Not only is he a political dodger, he was a draft dodger...

Just because the 16 AF idiots get a pass from him (oh, compassionate Newt), this isn't exactly rolling off the tongue of someone who has personal knowledge about letting off steam after a long, drawn out war. The closest he's ever been to a war was watching on TV as Norman Schwartzkopf ran one.

as an ex combat Marine from nam. my big brothers job from nam was sending men home with an American FLAG, yeah they where dead.of all the people i Killed in vietnam my big brothers job was the toughest. i offered all my three rows of medals to him. he refused. and said we did our job with reespect. and now i cry

Jake I'm glad that you let us know what exactly what the course is that they are taking. For those who say that everyone in the picture seems to have been in for several years the students here would be in the Air Force for less than five months while the NCOs could very well be combat vets. During my first ten years in the Air Force I was an Air Transportation Specialist and shipped many hundreds of bodies from Viet Nam. When I was in Viet Nam I handled bodies in the aluminum transfer cases and in rubber body bags that had not been fixed up yet. The stress of that was at times worse than when we were being fired on. Actually the memory of carrying those bodies still haunt me and visit my dreams so often. After almost 40 years I finally went to the VA for psychological help but the only help they have found is for me to take a pill before I got to bed that will knock me out so deep that I do not remember the dreams. I only remember the first half hour or so but it still haunts me.

That is a mangy looking bunch of airmen. My husband was in the USAF during the Viet Nam era. I don't know what he did to "lighten the mood" when things got intense but I know he accompanied some bodies from Otis back to their families. (C121 crash)

Agreed. One day we will have to take a politically correct course in school. No more freedom of speech.

It appears they failed to learn respect. The military doesn't do training in common sense, if they did, WTF!

I'm not sure what an NCO in the Air Force is, but I do see a Technical Sergeant in the picture - far right. And if the E-6 in the picture didn't see that this is wrong, there may be a bigger problem. I also point to the improper disposal of unidentified bodies and parts as reference.

I think the Air Force may have some very serious leadership issues that it needs to address.

Look again, more than one NCO. Guess its not as unusual as you thought.

Your freedom of expression ends where my right not to be offended begins

Uh... who appointed you the caretaker of sensibility, himem?

Using your train of thought, most of the politicians continually offend me, so why don’t you go and set them straight for me...?

since when has your 'right to be offended' become relevant.

Viper, that is just pure bull@!$%#! Ok, maybe not PURE, but it IS bull@!$%#! Those bozo's have NO IDEA what it is like to be on the front lines. and that is where they need to be. maybe then they will understand that "gallows humor" isn't in the least bit funny when a widow or the child of a fallen hero sees that. You are as despicable as those 15 morons if you think it IS funny. Your mama would be SO proud of you!

Viper, what about respect? duh!

They are ON DUTY. The military is not the adult version of the Cub Scouts, AYSO or Indian Princesses.

AA its does act like it though

Where does the story say they were on duty when the picture was taken?

David and Jeanie I observed that "gallows humor" became much more the norm in the war zone and by combat vets than by troops who had never been in combat. As did the fear of dying.

THATSWHATISAID1 Guess what? They are in their duty station and they are in uniform. That's what says that they on duty

Viper-my guess is you never served in the military. What these men (and I use the term loosely) are doing is so disrespectful words fail me. The military is built on honor and respect and these men have violated both. Viper if you don't see anything wrong here you have neither and I for one am thankful you have never darkened the U.S. military with your voided moral compass.

Himem,

You have no "right" not to be offended. Where did you get that silly idea ?

As an x-military (Captain, USAF) and Viet Nam vet let me state that I am disheartened by the photo. However, I must say that I witnessed worse "disrespect" for the military and the uniform during my time of service. I hope a reprimand and Article 15 (is that still administered?) would serve the purpose. Let's bring the men/women home and get them reintegrated into our society. They have skills and (usually) the discipline to be productive members of our civilian society. Best of success to all the members who serve with distinction or upon their discharge!

Those "minorities" are at least doing something for their country, Mr. MacArthur...instead of trolling on a news forum..

well said mr "minorities" leader

I cannot fathom at what time and in what universe this "seemed like a good idea." Respect for the fallen is a lynchpin of the Armed Forces... you do your best because you understand that many of the guys who preceded you died for it, so doing any less than your best just diminishes their sacrifice.

Just shows you what kind of mentality it takes to enlist in the military, the few, the stupid the us armed forces. I think we need more wars so we can kill these sick SOBs off.

Hey Frank!

I would like to put you on point!!!!

MM,

Thank goodness for someone with a level head. Stupid idea? yes!!! But the only ones that know what the idea was are those in that photo. Let's have the investigation go forth and conclude before we state beheading people!

Reprimand? Perhaps. Heads chopped off? Perhaps. Subsequent action should be based on investigation results not a bunch of guessing and unknowing interpretation and jumping to conslusions.

I can understand why some might be offendedd by this but, in this country, that they are btw defending,

we are granted the right to free speech and expression even if it offends someone. That is why we are not ruled by a SH or his ilk. Lets say for a moment, all emotion and outrage aside, that they are right? What if this is true? Maybe their method of expression was crude, but, they have something to say. Give them the right to explain why this was done. Clearly these airmen are extremely angry. Lets try to find out why and correct what may be going wrong.

Lets not forget that these are young men who are prepared to actually wind up in those bodybags and coffins. They place themselves in harms way willingly. Give them a chance to explain. It is only fair.