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Kevork Djansezian / Getty Images, file
Juan Morena sits on a Los Angeles, Calif., sidewalk as he waits for the St. Francis Center soup kitchen to open on Sept. 13.
WASHINGTON - Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans — nearly 1 in 2 — have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.
The latest census data depict a middle class that's shrinking as unemployment stays high and the government's safety net frays. The new numbers follow years of stagnating wages for the middle class that have hurt millions of workers and families.
"Safety net programs such as food stamps and tax credits kept poverty from rising even higher in 2010, but for many low-income families with work-related and medical expenses, they are considered too 'rich' to qualify," said Sheldon Danziger, a University of Michigan public policy professor who specializes in poverty.
"The reality is that prospects for the poor and the near poor are dismal," he said. "If Congress and the states make further cuts, we can expect the number of poor and low-income families to rise for the next several years."
Congressional Republicans and Democrats are sparring over legislation that would renew a Social Security payroll tax cut, part of a year-end political showdown over economic priorities that could also trim unemployment benefits, freeze federal pay and reduce entitlement spending.
Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, questioned whether some people classified as poor or low-income actually suffer material hardship. He said that while safety-net programs have helped many Americans, they have gone too far, citing poor people who live in decent-size homes, drive cars and own wide-screen TVs.
With nearly 14 million Americans unemployed, a new child welfare study finds one in five children are living in poverty. Nearly one in three live in homes where no parent works full-time year-round. NBC's Chris Jansing reports.
"There's no doubt the recession has thrown a lot of people out of work and incomes have fallen," Rector said. "As we come out of recession, it will be important that these programs promote self-sufficiency rather than dependence and encourage people to look for work."
Mayors in 29 cities say more than 1 in 4 people needing emergency food assistance did not receive it. Many middle-class Americans are dropping below the low-income threshold — roughly $45,000 for a family of four — because of pay cuts, a forced reduction of work hours or a spouse losing a job. Housing and child-care costs are consuming up to half of a family's income.
States in the South and West had the highest shares of low-income families, including Arizona, New Mexico and South Carolina, which have scaled back or eliminated aid programs for the needy. By raw numbers, such families were most numerous in California and Texas, each with more than 1 million.
The struggling Americans include Zenobia Bechtol, 18, in Austin, Texas, who earns minimum wage as a part-time pizza delivery driver. Bechtol and her 7-month-old baby were recently evicted from their bedbug-infested apartment after her boyfriend, an electrician, lost his job in the sluggish economy.
After an 18-month job search, Bechtol's boyfriend now works as a waiter and the family of three is temporarily living with her mother.
"We're paying my mom $200 a month for rent, and after diapers and formula and gas for work, we barely have enough money to spend," said Bechtol, a high school graduate who wants to go to college. "If it weren't for food stamps and other government money for families who need help, we wouldn't have been able to survive."
About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty measure.
The new measure of poverty takes into account medical, commuting and other living costs. Doing that helped push the number of people below 200 percent of the poverty level up from 104 million, or 1 in 3 Americans, that was officially reported in September.
Broken down by age, children were most likely to be poor or low-income — about 57 percent — followed by seniors over 65. By race and ethnicity, Hispanics topped the list at 73 percent, followed by blacks, Asians and non-Hispanic whites.
Even by traditional measures, many working families are hurting.
Following the recession that began in late 2007, the share of working families who are low income has risen for three straight years to 31.2 percent, or 10.2 million. That proportion is the highest in at least a decade, up from 27 percent in 2002, according to a new analysis by the Working Poor Families Project and the Population Reference Bureau, a nonprofit research group based in Washington.
Among low-income families, about one-third were considered poor while the remainder — 6.9 million — earned income just above the poverty line. Many states phase out eligibility for food stamps, Medicaid, tax credit and other government aid programs for low-income Americans as they approach 200 percent of the poverty level.
The majority of low-income families — 62 percent — spent more than one-third of their earnings on housing, surpassing a common guideline for what is considered affordable. By some census surveys, child-care costs consume close to another one-fifth.
Shrinking paychecks
Paychecks for low-income families are shrinking. The inflation-adjusted average earnings for the bottom 20 percent of families have fallen from $16,788 in 1979 to just under $15,000, and earnings for the next 20 percent have remained flat at $37,000. In contrast, higher-income brackets had significant wage growth since 1979, with earnings for the top 5 percent of families climbing 64 percent to more than $313,000.
A survey of 29 cities conducted by the U.S. Conference of Mayors being released Thursday points to a gloomy outlook for those on the lower end of the income scale.
Many mayors cited the challenges of meeting increased demands for food assistance, expressing particular concern about possible cuts to federal programs such as food stamps and WIC, which assists low-income pregnant women and mothers. Unemployment led the list of causes of hunger in cities, followed by poverty, low wages and high housing costs.
Across the 29 cities, about 27 percent of people needing emergency food aid did not receive it. Kansas City, Mo., Nashville, Tenn., Sacramento, Calif., and Trenton, N.J., were among the cities that pointed to increases in the cost of food and declining food donations, while Mayor Michael McGinn in Seattle cited an unexpected spike in food requests from immigrants and refugees, particularly from Somalia, Burma and Bhutan.
Among those requesting emergency food assistance, 51 percent were in families, 26 percent were employed, 19 percent were elderly and 11 percent were homeless.
"People who never thought they would need food are in need of help," said Mayor Sly James of Kansas City, Mo., who co-chairs a mayors' task force on hunger and homelessness.
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Leave a Comment:
We are in an economic crisis. This is not the time to cut social spending. Why aren't we drastically cutting the military (we spend more on that than the rest of the world combined)? Why aren't legislators, national and state, leading the way with cuts to their own salaries? Why aren't we raising the historically low tax on the rich to generate more income?
We need to emulate FDR's programs, not throw the poor and struggling, especially those who never needed services before who had paid taxes while employed (or better employed), under the bus.
All of this under Obama's watch. Another great record to run on.
This is what happens when our government would rather invest in other countries other than AMERICA!!!!
It is a known fact that countries at war will impoverish. Stop ALL WARS NOW! We are in trouble. No more government to private war services and war paraphernalia corporations wealth redistribution. No utilizing the public military for private interests (treason?). No more foreign aid for countries with standing military. These countries should dismantle their military first, utilize these funds to feed and clothe their people before investing in military machines. Only then should we consider the question of medicine and food aid. American politicians who vote for these kinds of aid, all the while the receiving country has a standing military, should be tried for treason. They are squandering our money into hornets nests which will inevitably come back to kill our young boys and girls serving.
Vote Ron Paul and at least the foreign policy part will be sorted. Whatever happens, the likes of Newt Gingrich MUST NOT become President.
Nice try, Ben. But did you forget about the 8 years of thievery we suffered under King George the Second? A bit of selective amnesia on your part, I'd say... That mongoloid and his bankster cabinet brought ruination on this country. It's much easier to tear something down than build it back up. King George took a wrecking ball to our economy for almost a decade, and now you stamp your feet at Obama after only 3 years? Go play in the sandbox.
@Spartan -- One quick question. Do you want to see Obama re-elected?
Unfortunately this falls in line with what the republinos have been shooting for. The more economic hurt the more likely President Obama is a one term President. Let's all concentrate not on blame but replacing the 'leaders' who have been contributing to the pain. If there were no republinos in power then everyone would have a better chance at a better life.
@Gizmo -- One quick question. What's a republino? Besides I thought for the first two years of this administration the democrats had the Congress and WH under their control.
Obama sucks, but at least he isn't greedy like the Newt. Besides, Congress plays a big role in approving policies.
If you don't want Obama re-elected, vote Ron Paul. It's foolish to think anyone else could fix things.
And yet @!$%# republicans continue to fight for the top tier who continue to see their wages grow. Sick, just sick.
@Dominic -- Go blow it out of your pie-hole with that crap. Grow up and take the blame. Besides, it was Obama who ran on fixing things immediately. He even said that he would not run again if his mission was not accomplished in the first three years. We'll I guess his job isn't finished -- there are still 250 million Americans NOT on food stamps. He won't rest until that is accomplished.
@Spartan -- Then make sure you vote and campaign for Ron Paul in the primaries, but you need to have a plan B if Paul does not win. If you are passionate about this country and a true American, you won't abandon your duty and abstain (like Obama did in the Senate) in the general election. Using intellect no one could vote for someone who "sucks."
70% of military spending is pensions for old soldiers. We are a paper tiger, with bloated spending on lush lifestyles for military officers, and now we are having to dig into the weapons programs for the tools that we provide for our fighting boys. Many programs have been cut, but you can only cut so far, and still have an effective military, if most of the people you are paying, you are paying for having fought wars in bygone times. Kind of similar to what we are doing to our economy in other areas -- like social security. I have quit working for the US government. I no longer pay taxes to the US government. This government has created a system that has decimated our industrial might, left our country vulnerable to attacks by foreign powers, and has progressively exported our industrial might in exchange for lush life styles at home and voters that will re-elect them. I am not talking about Barrack Obama, or George Bush, I am talking about the congresses that have made our laws and have determined how our taxes have been collected for the past 60 years. All of these individuals have brought our nation down.
As long as we spend more than we produce, we will export market shares and productive capital to foreign manufacturers and businesses. The government has created tax laws that make it very unattractive to save and invest in much of America. Therefore people tend to spend most of their money or even go into debt and chose not to save or invest. If you spend more than you produce, then you must liquidate assets or possessions in order to fund the excess purchases. This is what Americans did for years when they refinanced the mortgages on their homes to get cash. We make these choices because of the tax laws that our congressmen write and vote for. Whenever we do this we are sending productive capital overseas to purchase goods that cannot possibly be purchased at home.
Time to rewrite the tax laws to encourage Americans to spend less than they produce in order to save and invest.
And the Kardashians keep getting richer. I am PO'd that the President & Dems backed down from taxing the rich. This story shows how pathetic our country has become, when invading a country and occupying countries for 10 years matters more than our own people. We didn't gain anything in Iraq & Afghanistan except friendship.
The Kardashians make only a small fraction of what the likes of Rupert Murdoch makes. Murdoch is but one of many uber-rich greedy pigs.
Yes Ben, go play in the sandbox.
@ Ben:
Wrong again, young man. Obama has never promised a "quick fix". He's said from beginning that the recovery would not be easy, that it would be an immense challenge. What he did promise is action, and that's what he took when he was elected. Unfortunately, you Republicans have made Obama's failure your primary objective, preferring to play political games rather than do what's best for the country, so every step of the way any viable solution has been sabotaged or delayed. Your party is a disgrace. The ones that aren't beholden to monied interests are too ignorant to even know the basic functions of government. Maybe if the Republicans genuinely represented the people, this country would be doing better.
Ben 636050
Why don't people like you give it a rest. Anybody with half a brain understands that the economic troubles in this country were caused by and continue to be exacerbated by the REPUBLICAN/TEA PARTY. If you don't see that pal I truly feel sorry for you. Or maybe your just another Karl Rove troll. If that's the case; troll, troll go away and don't come back another day.
Ben, they say this started in 2007, Obama was not in office then. I say it started long before 2007 our government has a selective memory at best.
The double-standard of the Republicans has no limits. Not only they go to incredible extents to protect these millionaires from a tax increase, but they also refuse to cut their subsidies.
Let's be honest: Where are the jobs from the job creators? We have not seen the jobs that the GOP really brags about. The only jobs that are being created are those that somehow depend from the help of the Government; be that in the way of reforms, business tax breaks, and other incentives.
Not only that, but they go to the extent of spitting on the face of the regular American when they sign a pledge to a lobbyist: Norquist. And where is Norquist now on the payroll tax cut? He certainly is keeping very quiet.
My only question is about Time magazine thinking about naming Paul Ryan as a man of the year. Really? I am glad that they changed their mind! That was going to be ultimate insult to the people of the United States.
How much money is at stake to have all of the members of the Republican congress signing a pledge? How much money does one person need to belong to that exclusive "Norquist Club " that guarantees "protection" from paying your fair share?
Yeah tax the rich, it wont matter because like all good democrats will do is spend again and again.Its like a teenager with a MasterCard. Yes the bush administration should have put the brakes on the fraud perpetrated by design of the Frank-Dodd bill. Allowing everyone and anyone to obtain a mortgage, without proof of income, well what do you think would happen. But what about Obama,not focusing, like he stated he will do, about the economy. No he has been manipulated by his own party for this Health care bill that will be paid for by the government (taxpayers) instead of focusing on unemployment first,agenda second. Dems can yell and scream, post,blog, march,point the finger, hold their breath until red. The only person who is the blame for no action is Obama. Unless you like socialism then he is god.
From the day that Obama was elected, the republican's sole goal has been to make him a one term president. They don't care how many people have to suffer in order to make it happen. While Obama has definitely not fixed the problems, he has at least slowed the bleeding despite republican opposition. Decades of failed trickle down policies will probably take decades to fix. The republicans just want more of the same.
As long as the 1% has their Champaign and Caviar you know thing are great in the
US.
Trickle on you?
Actually they do represent their constituency. You've provide a perfect tie-up in your above comment.
@Dominic, et. al -- Those who believe as you are the disgrace to America. Liars and appeasers and apologists all. The progressive left has one agenda -- DESTROY THE AMERICA WAY OF LIFE AND ITS FOUNDATION. Yes, that has to be stopped at all costs. You are a sorry lot. Also, I am far from a young man. I have served my country with honor and dignity in Vietnam. I fought for this country and would do it again. I am fighting for this country now by supporting each and every effort to block the America-killing agenda of the socialist Obama Soros union lover who rails at the rich while holding his hand behind his back to take money from them. Again -- blow it out of your pie-hole.
You need to reread what this failure of a president said. Your interpretation shows an extreme lack of reading comprehension.
Ben-636050 Head stuck in the sand? Get fresh sand.
@Dominic -- Go blow it out of your pie-hole with that crap.
The progressive left has one agenda -- DESTROY THE AMERICA WAY OF LIFE AND ITS FOUNDATION.
We sell sand by the ton or Cu yard, how much would you like?
Ben your post shows a true lack of compassion and understanding of the underlying ecomonics of our country. Your hate for our president is evident. All the problems we are suffering from today are a DIRECT result of the FAILED Bush administration. Let me remind you of the LIES mr Bush And Cheney fed to our people...."Weapons of mass destruction", "Stay the course", "Closed door energy meeting with OPEC leaders later classified as SEC. Then, let me remind you the GREAT RECESSION started on Bush's watch (3rd quarter 2007) and Mr Obama took over in january 2009. One quarter later the greates recession, second only to the great depression was said to have ended.
The GOP has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help the working class people of this once fine nation.
I will not rest until every GOp & Tea Nut is eliminated, but I will settle for them just losing their jobs.
OBAMA in '12
G
Have No Fear ... Your Government Is Here ! We have all the answers planed out......................... next time we'll make it 2 out of 3 at the poverty level or below ....
"And The beat Goes On ....... "
Just another AP propaganda piece.....like the NY Times,et al....the Stenography Branch of the Obama Regime....They copy/paste whatever comes out of the Political Wing of The WhiteHouse.....
Sometimes watching Newsvine is like watching two dogs fight over a piece of meat .. while a rats rmakes off with it ... lol
Dominic,
"Maybe if the Republicans genuinely represented the people, this country would be doing better."
Oh, but they do represent the people. According to SCOTUS corporations are now people. Haven't you heard the good news?
@Ben
Man, you are in full blown troll mode this morning. You talk about all this crap that you think the Democrats are doing or plan to do all while the GOP/tp has been busy doing those things all along. You can fall for this crap if you want but the vast majority of us have your number and we are not impressed.
The GOP/tp is quickly turning into the party of greedy, pompous jerks. The sooner we start voting these unAmerican clowns out of office the better, if for no other reason then to silence idiots such as yourself.
Check sometime how much Obama made on his book deals. I know it's harder to find because the mainstream media never mentions it. At least Newt actually wrote his own books.
@critical thinker -- you belie your moniker with your post. Let me remind you the democrats took over Congress in 2006 and when did that Great Recession begin?????? The bottom line is nothing has improved during obama. Every economic indicator is lower. Time to change head coaches again.
@Dennis -- typical response from a true socialist -- censorship and silencing of those of opposite beliefs. You need to get your head out of obama's arse and quit eating his "Hilly" pie. It is interfering with your ability to reason and comprehend that there are more democrats that fall in the uber rich category than republicans. Do your research.
Can you say ILLEGAL ALIEN?
Kick 'em all out and you see the unemployment levels go down.
Homesick yank said:
Why aren't we drastically cutting the military (we spend more on that than the rest of the world combined)?
Have you heard of the new bill they just passed for government spending? They are bringing the 'war on terror' home to American soil. S1867/NDAA sections 1031-1033 basically will give our government the right to have our military indefinitely detain anyone suspected of terrorist activity without charge or trial, American citizen or not, anywhere in the world, on home soil or off. And it's not just limited to anything directly affecting America--it's anyone accused or suspected of terrorist activities against American allies too, which can be interpreted to include conflicts that don't even involve America. The NDAA also gives the department of Defense $600 billion to implement these changes with.
Senator Carl Levin (D) and Senator John McCain (R) wrote it, allegedly in secret, and it was sponsored into the House of Representatives by Representative Howard McKeon (R). The House of Representatives passed it in May, 322-96, and the Senate passed it Dec 6 93-7.Since the two versions of the bill are a little different, they just need to reconcile it and send it to President Obama to sign. Obama has said that he is going to veto it, but Congress can override the veto with a 2/3 vote.
DHS has classified a number of activities as indicators of terrorism and it's not just about bombs and Muslim extremists. Suspected terrorism includes any of the following: alternative media, animal rights activists., technology-enabled social/political activism, militia movements and conspiracy theorists, lawful acts of civil disobedience (think Rosa Parks refusing to give up her bus seat; under this law she could be arrested as a terrorist) people who stockpile food (more than 7 days worth of food is onsidered stockpiling) and weapons stockpiles, and even practitioners of 'radical Norse mysticism'. Seriously, when was the last time someone blew up a building 'in the name of the Norse God Odin?'
So those returning soldiers aren't going to find themselves in the unemployment line; they're going to find themselves ordered to arrest/detain American citizens who are considered terroristic threats.
We can sit back and blame these worthless (all the same, Rethuglicans or Demo-rats) politicians but what are we doing. I'm sorry the poor girl and her boyfriend used poor judgement by having a baby at 18 with no income. How is that societies fault? We run to the big box stores who pay their employees a poverty wage and buy products from China or Mexico that used to be made here. The unions are a good scapegoat but a good portion of that stuff was never made by union shops. The company that makes Vice-Grips recently moved to China,I didn't notice the price of them suddenly falling 50% for the supposedly cheap labor over there. Levi jeans moved to Mexico years ago (under Clinton's watch I believe,so it.s not isolated to one party) and they're still exspensive. If it's outsourced, don't buy it,there are websites that list American made products.
@Ben
You clowns wouldn't know a socialist if you tripped over one. Where was your outrage when Bush and Cheney were usurping the Constitution? It was all good until a Democrat was elected to clean up your mess and all you can do is lie and try to rewrite history. We are not impressed.
You truly are a troll.
Clearly there is only one way to solve this problem. We must cut taxes for the rich.
@Ben - Maybe you didn't know this, but Obama is not the first President of the United States. There was a guy before him, and all this is laid right at his feet.
I don't expect you to understand it at all, so don't bother replying.
Ben, one question, if you buy a house and the day you go to move in, the previous owner had set it on fire and you could not put the fire out in time . . . Who is to blame for the damage to the House. In your blame of the Dem Congress control and all you forget to remind us that for the first 4 years of the Bush Admin the total Govt and congress was R. It took time to screw things up and it will take time to fix. U and your ilk supporting the Wealth Growers of the country are sticking it to the little guy.
There is no doubt that more people than ever are unable to meet their daily family expenses with falling income. That is there is clear evidence of tax laws, incentives and other loopholes that favor rich and the corporations able to rig the system and pay less towards the state and federal treasury.
But, one thing in this article that struck me and I wanted to comment about it.
My response to this young lady is, "You are 18 and you should be in College or High School completing your studies. Instead you chose to spread your legs and have a baby at a young age of 17. Do you really need to have a Boyfriend when you can't feed yourself. Whatever happened to your parents who should have taught you to go to school, get a degree or training in some professional field, get a job and then do whatever you want?"
I use to be a extreme liberal thinking that poor and downtrodden deserve help and another chance. But if people don't take their responsibilities seriously and instead keep producing babies expecting the government to help them and their kids out of sympathy, I am not for it. We as a society are cultivating what I call as PPS (Perpetual Poverty Syndrome) and it has to stop now.
Dominic,
I'm sick and tired of "Bush did it too!" and "No, Obama didn't promise anything." Well, Bush is no longer President, Obama promised the world and has done nothing but create an even bigger mess.
Remember, Obama and his cronies are all one percenters.
Oh come on, Ben. I know you’re not stupid so please think before you post nonsense like that.
First of all, you can’t possibly believe that the democrats could have done ANYTHING in 2006 with the narrow majority they had with George Bush in the White House. Quite the contrary, they mostly fell all over themselves giving Bush everything he wanted. The republicans are to blame for the economic collapse and you know it.
Secondly, anyone that has paid ANY attention knows that, since 2008, the republicans have broken every record for most use of the filibuster. It’s reached the point where news articles now just flat-out say that 60 votes are needed to pass any legislation. Even the most blindly partisan people out there should be able to see that the minority party can’t block nearly every bill that comes before congress and then try to blame the majority party when nothing gets done.
Heck of a job, Party of No.
The wealthy are already paying most of the taxes paid in america.
About half of all americans don't even pay taxes. The majority of those are getting some type of entitlement. Like it or not you can't expect a country to prosper when half the people are expected to support the other half. Tax em all you want it is not going to work. All you are going to do is bring them down with you. Because they will eventually give up and join the freeloaders. Or move to a country where people don't expect a free ride thru life.
Raise taxes on corporations and they will raise their prices. So you end up paying those taxes anyway.
The bitterness and blame that is being thrown back and forth on this vine is a shame. Both the republicans and democrats are to blame, as well as we the citizens. We have literally wanted our cake and eat it too. Well, now we are paying for it.
We need an entirely new tax code so that everyone pays their fair share. We need to cut the spending on all the stupid pork programs that each politician snuck in on various bills. We need to stop expecting the government to take care of all of our problems and be responsible for all bills, decisions, life choices, etc that we chose to make. We need to have compassion for those that are in need right now, and help them to become independent in the near future.
How do we do all that? Not by tearing each other apart. First step could be to vote all of our current politicians out of office. Don't know if it would help, but couldn't hurt.
No one person, program, political party or corporation is to blame. We are all guilty. I just hate to see Americans turning on Americans. Disagree on opinions, but stop the hate, please.
For God's sake Junicon. What the hell is being said today about the minority republicans in the first two years of the obama administration in the Congress??????? Damn right the democrats could have done something in the minority -- you just point out about filibusters on the right. I know you are intelligent as well so think and ask yourself why if the Bush policies were so bad, why didn't the majority/minority dems do anything about it?????
I know the Obama policies are bad and I applaud the defeat of everything he proposed that has been defeated. If one can say the stimulus "saved" jobs then one can say defeating his socialist agenda has "saved" this country from further destruction.
The bottom line is we need to stop fuc*kin around, and level the trade with China, get millions of cheating illegals off welfare, and deport them. Then we need to vote both of those do nothing parties in Washington, except line their own pockets in 2012. Keep doing nothing, and it will get really bad. I hate to say it but the men, and women up in Washington, are cowards and will do nothing, except kiss A$$. Raise the taxes of the members of Congress, let them pay for the entitlement programs. They're millionaires after all.
Death to all trolls!
Ben,
Still Waiting??????!!!!!
FDR-type economic policies barely helped our nation. WWII got us out, and we don't want that.
life.is.hard Well said. Thank you.
Only on Newsvine can you find a group of people that, for the most part, have little understanding of economic cycles.
Political decisions that are made today won't have their effects felt for anywhere between 2-10 or more years. Every decision made has a ripple effect somewhere else in the economy. Much of our woes today are decisions that date all the way back to Ronald Reagan. He and Jack Welch figured out a way to increase corporate profits by outsourcing jobs to Asia. G.E. was the darling of wall street and everybody was happy with the returns they were getting - the rich were getting richer.
That decision is now haunting us. Dell Computers is closing down its US manufacturing plants and shipping the jobs overseas. Same goes for just about any and all electronic components manufacturers. Remember the day when North Carolina led the world in textile manufacturing? Now just about every clothing label reads "made in somewhere else".
Don't be so quick to judge whatever President is occupying the Oval Office. The decisions made today might not be able to be measured for quite some time to come in the future. Our problems we have today aren't political - they are born out of the private sector. As long as a very small group of individuals are able to control the direction of their own self interests by slashing costs (layoffs and job exports), then our fate will be sealed irregardless of which party controls the white house.
It just seems so much easier to blame the politicians...
Tea Sucks, you are spot on! Almost everything our government seems to do these days, further encourages people to look to it for support. At some point you need to be responsible for supporting yourself and maybe instead of buying a big screen TV with all the HD accessories, maybe you should spend that money on health insurance, and the rims on your car shouldn't be worth more than the car itself and maybe you should be buying baby formula instead of lotto tickets...
Ben-636050
All of this under Obama's watch.
=========
.....Ben, in a subsequent post, you also told someone to blow it out their pie hole, well you're the one blowing it out, and it's not from your pie hole. You honestly want people to believe this all happened in the last 3 years? Take a gander at the following copy/paste from the article (which you obviously ignored):
"Paychecks for low-income families are shrinking. The inflation-adjusted average earnings for the bottom 20 percent of families have fallen from $16,788 in 1979 to just under $15,000, and earnings for the next 20 percent have remained flat at $37,000. In contrast, higher-income brackets had significant wage growth since 1979, with earnings for the top 5 percent of families climbing 64 percent to more than $313,000."
....Now why don't you use your best right-wing, GOP/TP, Beckian truth twisting skills to show us how Obama's watch goes back to 1979, you know, to distort reality for the weak minded who are too lazy to think for themselves.
...This isn't Obama's fault, and it's not Bush's fault, it's the fault of a completely inept and/or corrupted Congress over the years, DEMs and GOPers alike, and the fault of the mouth breathing morons in our electorate that believe the political bull crap and distortions put out by some people in this country.
.....Okay Ben, now come back with a really unexpected and intelligent response, you know, like calling me a "liberal", which I am not, my politics are Middle Class and Main Street, but that wouldn't matter to someone like you..
You have GOT to be kidding me! So they consider $45,000 a year the new LOW INCOME??? This is ridiculus. No wonder they can now claim 1 in 2 are low income. All the raises in food stamps, welfare, unemployment at the beginning of O's reign, and now lowering the elibible threshold...
@Nikki: Not that I necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but as is typical with most Newsvine readers, your grasp of the subject is oversimplified.
You say we should "level the trade with China". Sounds great on paper, how do you suggest we do that? Since China owns a vast majority of our debt and refuses to play by the rules, what would you honestly suggest we do that would have a real-world impact and not just be tough talking rhetoric?
You say we should "get millions of cheating illegals off welfare and deport them". The actual cost of illegal immigration is somewhat nominal. This is more of a talking point than anything else. If you deport all the illegal aliens, it sounds great as a talking point but will have a substantial inflationary effect. People talk about how illegals are "taking our jobs". If you want to become a migrant worker, or domestic, or some other crappy job that most Americans would NOT consider taking, you could find work tomorrow. If you want at or below minimum wage for backbreaking work then I have some land I need cleared. Think about this for a few moments: The cost of just about everything food related will go up faster than it already is. You will have to pay for this one personally out of your own pocket. The other point is that most "illegal aliens" that are here are self supporting and contributing to the local economy. I don't argue the fact that there are illegal aliens here that rely on welfare assistance. Keep in mind that this segment of the "illegal alien" population is still very much the minority.
As for the rest of your statements, I am in agreement. Keep in mind though that the Tea Party is doing exactly what they promised they would. They promised that they would vote to cut taxes and never acquiesce on that issue. So far, I applaud them for keeping their promise; however, they are the reason there is no compromise in Washington. You get what you voted for.
Ahhhh yes, the liberal Utopia is realized!
I remember when oil prices skyrocketed every single thing followed suit now that they've come down a tad everything else stays high..If we could only get away from the demand for oil.
That's for the whole family. That means if both mom and dad work they are bringing home about $22,000 per year. Around my area the median household income is $70,000. Making half of the median income is low income. You'd be lucky to live in a studio apartment on $45,000 in my area.
Middle Class: Going......Going.........Gone.
We have been moving towards socialism for quite some time. Finally, we are realizing the dream! Congratulations America, we are now civilized! ....poor, but civilized!...and compassionate! ....if we could only ban oil, we would be on the downside of perfect! Ohhh how I dream of riding horses down @!$%# strewn muddy streets, trading for gumballs and bails of hay. Sure all the horse @!$%# may cause dysentery, but we would finally have an equally miserable society!
@ Ben.... You suck, republicans suck, and yes I will vote for Obama because anyone with an (R) next to their name needs to be in jail for treason.
Signing a pledge to Grover Nordquist was the biggest Benedict Arnold move in this nation and the majority agrees
If we could make most transportation run on something other than oil...Prices would finally come down in the markets and retail, a win win.
In most area's of USA 45 grand is not low income. Granted in a few high priced cities this may not be enough but most people don't live there so why use these for making a dividing case for the sole purpose of class warfare.
False. ~65% of the US debt is debt the US government owes to itself. Only about 30% of the US debt is in foreign hands, hence why the debt is not a significant problem going forward. The US could probably sustain levels upwards of 150% debt to GDP, possibly upwards of 200% for short periods.
That being said, a trade war with China is one the US will lose. The US gave up on manufacturing the minute profits were put ahead of wages in the 80's.
I would go farther; Illegial immigration is a net economic positive. Thats why I love what the south is doing, since that means more immigrants, and by extension, more money to NY.
Frankly, the whole illegial immigration debate has caused the public to ignore the root of hte problem: The legal immigration system is broken, and needs to be re-tooled to actually allow people to legally get in teh country in teh first place. Our immigration policy is still based on keeping people OUT, rather then letting them in. Thats the root of the problem.
True, and you get economic performance to match. To Kenysians like me, the economy is recovering basically at the pace you would expect given how the government is currently acting: Private sector job hiring up for, what, 21 months running now? The root problem with unemployment is the public sector [government jobs] continuing to plummet. All those Republican governers who are cutting jobs to balence their own budgets are the reason we are still in recession.
Also, thanks to the multiplyer effect, those unemployed immedately start increasing the size of said budgets by virtue of unemployment and the like, and because they no longer make any income, revenue decreases. Hence, the following year, you need MORE layoffs to balence the budget, which causes and endless cycle of layoffs and declining wages.
Depite what many say, the Stimulus did its job: In January 2009, we lost 750,000 jobs. In January 2011 [the last month of Democratic control of the house], we gained 275,000 jobs. Thats a net turnaround of over 1 Million jobs per month, in just over two years. Thats OUTSTANDING by any historical standard. The problem is things were so bad to start, Obama's current performance looks bad, even though the pace of the recovery is ahead of all reasonable expectations.
Tether, you mentioned
Tether, this is not just about the taxes being paid by the rich and the corporations. It's about the seismic shift in income and wealth that has happened in the past 30 years and is happening now in America. If you get a chance, please read the below news article published in today's Financial Times.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1bf8e7ba-2578-11e1-9cb0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1gbtBlCX0
According to the FT news article, there is a pay gap of $740 Billion in the US every year. That means, the share of income to the so-called middle class has shrunk to a record low of 58% and the norm or post-World War average is 63% and that is a shift of $740 Billion from the working class to the doyens of Capitalism. Translated, $5,000 is / was not being paid as wages to every worker, every year for a fair share of work done.
Nutshell, it is because the top 1% (rich) and the corporations who buy out the politicians and government bureaucrats (at all levels - federal, state, and local) and enact / twist laws to favor them and get all kinds of corporate welfare /giveaways not seen in the modern times.
That's what Obama and other leftists are clamoring for. The cause and the reasons for this problem (income gap) are topics for another day.
dongwork - Democrats suck too, remember Lewinsky?
The dialogue between Ben and others makes me think of a scenario:
Johnny throws a party, trashes the house, runs up bills on his parent's credit cards. Mom and Dad come home to the mess that Johnny made, they send him to his room while they clean up. Meanwhile, Johnny is complaining loudly that Mom and Dad are not cleaning up his mess fast enough or in the manner that he likes to clean. They offer Johnny a chance to help, but since it's not his way he decides to just get in the way until Mom and Dad comply to his wishes. Every time they pick something up, he throws it back on the floor - and states that he will continue his foolishness until Mom and Dad let him clean up his way. Mom and Dad are suspicious though, of Johnny, because his current and past behaviour indicates that he may not be trusted to do as asked.
Will Mom and Dad continue or will Johnny get his way?
I wonder why poverty always seems to increase when we have a Democratic Congress and President?
Shuklack, you forgot to mention that Mom & Dad went and got 5 more credit cards (which they maxed out) and used the most expensive clean up crew in town!
@Ben, the recession may have appeared to have started in 2007, but it's roots go back to 1980, and the beginning of the decimation of the Glass-Steagall act of 1933. You may be too young to recall the savings and loan failures that harkened the collapses to come. Even the NewsMax authors of Aftershock note that. Blaming Obama for 40 years of ever-more-right-wing policies (and go back to your history books to see who controlled the White House and the Congress for most of those 4 decades) is ignorant and ill informed, albeit the norm for FOXaholics. You wouldn't know a socialist if you saw one, or you wouldn't be so foolish as to puppet the rhetoric you have been fed.
The biggest problem in this country is ill-informed voters, including the hoards of so-called Independents who really only pay minimal attention every four years and then vote as a reaction to the latest events they don't like. Who up there said "time to change leaders"? That's the problems, democrats are never in office long enough to fix the crap done by Republicans, and equally bad, Dems have drifted further right in their decades-long attempt to appease and work with an ever-more conservative right. Which is why we now have unbelievable idealogues running in the Republican primary, some of whom are breath-takingly uneducated and unqualified to be presidential contenders.
@Tether - that tired line about the rich paying most of the taxes is another Murdoch talking point. The rich are being taxed at historically low levels. The % they pay is not the measure of import, the overall tax haul is. In the 1950's the highest tax rate was a whopping 90% under a Republican President. What did it get us? An interstate system we all use and rely on daily, excellent K-12 free education, affordable higher education, a solid tax-paying middle class, and a life style the rest of the world yearned for and emulated. By the way, the rich were just as happy and opulent as they are now.
That was @Ben, again. Just have to point out to you and your fellow talking point regurgitators: It was Progressives that gave you the American way of life you so enjoy. If the right had had historically had its way, we would still be living the good life of the 1890's, which is exactly where theywant to take you, by their own admission!
It interesting that when the government increases welfare benefits to those making income below a certain level, many more families incomes drop to just below that income level so they qualify for assistance (food stamps, subsidized housing, tax credits, Pell Grants, utility credits, free medical care, etc.) that can have a value of over $20,000 per year for some families - all tax free.
Many of those just below the 'poverty level' live far better than those just above the poverty level and don't qualify for assistance.
It's near time to take our fair share from the Elite 1% by any means necessary. No amount of money and power is enough to settle their insatiable lust. For them it isn't even about the money anymore. It's about the POWER and the amount of money that they have feeds their ego. These use their money and influence to buy our politicians and get laws passed to benefit them. If we don't stop them soon these elitist sociopaths will bleed our country dry. They don't even understand the concept of 'doing the right thing' or 'sharing'. They could have all the money in the world and still want more at the expense of the commoners. The more they have and the less we have the bigger their egos get. To them we're nothing more than expendable peasant laborers.
Contrary to what some believe there IS plenty of money to go around. The top 1% makes over 20X what the bottom 50% makes. You do the math.
hey Roy, If you don't know how to speak with an common sense or intlelligently then SHUT THE ---- UP!
You sound as Stupid as Bushy, the one who began his reign 3 trillion above and wasted it all on the ethics of greed!
Just as the Romans, the Greeks and the Egypians did many many years ago----greed will destroy this once grand nation just as it has in ignorance for centuries! And it has already begun--evident just yesterday when Bernanke refused to raise interest rates on savings accounts---benefit the banker to the detriment of the people!
Wow---is Ben capable of communicating without insulting the other person with whom he is interacting? Really? This is an adult forum, not midde school. Please act appropriately, Ben.
That being said, it is ironic that during the last week there have been numerous articles at how people are surviving on $50k/year. Many indicated that it was no big deal. Well, apparently the government has just a little less classified as low income. That says alot.
I appreciate the poster that pointed out the obvious; this problem developed prior to Obama. Not only that, if you understand economic cycles, the last upturn lasted so long, that one could not help but to expect the downturn to also last a prolonged period of time. I mean really, it is Ec 101.
Roy, do you have actual statistic to support your claim of people intentionally decreasing their income to collect subsidies? I can assure you that it is insignificant. Please provide the data.
I think its time to prove something, rather than argue back and forth. One time event. Take all the money from the "rich" and distribute it to the 99%. Not their ability to earn, just existing wealth. With the caveat that this is all you get. Let the business people rebuild their wealth on one side and watch the 99% spend all they get. No more cries for more when the money runs out. And you know it will!
Well, this is what you get when you clamp down on the economy and apply the fiscal breaks by demanding crony Union handouts as political favors to your supporters, threaten higher taxes, onerus regulations, and keep jacking up already unsustainable entitlements after tanking the economy through perverse incentives designed to put people in home loans that were completely unable to afford it. Fiscal liberals created this mess, enjoy the fruits of their labor. Rational and informed voters will be cognizant of that fact next November, the rest of the ignorant lemmings will keep shooting themselves in the foot in lockstep with the Democrats toeing the party line of 'eat the rich', 'corporations are evil', 'I believe in free lunches just because I want them' mentality.
-- An extremely socially liberal Independent ex-Democrat.
Bencas: "Roy, do you have actual statistic to support your claim of people intentionally decreasing their income to collect subsidies? I can assure you that it is insignificant. Please provide the data."
=========
.........Don't hold your breath! It's meaningless to challenge Roy, he is a frequent poster and knows more about these issues than everyone else on these vines, and if you don't believe me, just ask him.
ROY WILSON,
I have never seen anyone more intellectually dishonest than your posts on poverty! Maybe the below FACTS will shame you into some intelligent, honest contribution to this discussion on poverty in the U.S. Probably not though! U.S. poverty was highest the first year it was measured by the census bureau in 1959. That year poverty was 22.4%. The lowest year was 1973 at a rate of 11.1%. Since that time poverty, according to government figures, has fluctuated between 12% and 14% up until the Great Recession of 2007 through the present where it now stands at just over 15%, and climbing.
http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/workingpaper05/paper19/Poverty-6-9-05.pdf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/11/poverty-rate-in-us-saw-re_n_713387.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/
How many people have got a job from a poor person? Zero. To all the dems, the government wants to be your nipple, because you just can't take care of yourself. They are all knowing and just the smartest people on earth just ask them.
Big Al in Vegas an irrespond are on unemployment and hoping to stay there.... obama's voter base!
Thanks a lot obama! You have succeeded in putting more people on welfare than any other President in history! Over 46 million families are now on food stamps and that number is rising almost as fast as the national debt.
Obama can't properly protect our borders (or maybe he doesn't want to!) and is suing states that are forced to do the Feds job!
Thanks to the corrupt Eric Holder, obama's AG.... thousands of Mexican drug cartel members are now fully armed because of our Government's Fast and Furious program. Obama is paying off political debt by 'Solyndra type' government loans! Where's the outrage.... well big all and irrespond don't care because obama is sending them checks!
Obama is now trying to convince the country that a 9% unemployment rate is the 'norm'!! And sheeple like big al in Vegas believe that! Maybe obama's handlers haven't told him that no President in history got reelected with an unemployment rate above 7.2%! Big Al in Vegas and others hope that isn't true, otherwise they may have to go back to work!
Thanks Mr. Obama! Guys like big al and irrespond appreciate the job you're doing! It's just the rest of the country that is looking for real hope and change in 2012!
That's because 1 in 2 Americans are lazy and won't work and our stupid government just keeps taking from the people that do and giving it to these lazy bums. Also, if they would stop the 140,000 plus legal immigrants coming into the country monthly we might could lower that number. I can't believe with the jobs and the economy the way they are that we are letting even one legal immigrant into the country to get on the government dole. We have enough problems with the ILLEGAL ALIENS stealing our jobs and screwing up the country. We need to stop all immigration until we have it under control and all Americans have a job. Our federal government is killing our country.
Help save the country - TEA PARTY 2012 and beyond - Paul/Bachmann or vise/versa 2012
Tea
This is true for the smallest percentage of business.
What most businesses do is contribute to BOTH parties. They cannot afford to contribute to one because if the party you don't contribute to wins, you are unlikey to get business from that government. I've seen it, and have been near small business that admits that is what they do.
I think you need to stop focusing on business, they just want to make widgets and get paid for it. Rather look at the politicians. The politicians formulate a view calculated to be favorable to particular groups of voters to gain their votes or toward corporations to gain their funding.
And why do you espouse that corporations are the big evil in the world - because the politicians know that you are envious of the money that goes through their hands and have no problem convincing you. Why do they have so much money, well, there is a demand for the product or service, they have to pay for regulations the politicians inflict on them and the taxes they must pay to government to even run a business.
Wow!! These comment boards have become incredible. People get collapsed just because others don't agree with their opinions. Not that they said anything that is considered derogatory, or inflammatory. I think people must overuse the No Value. These boards were for people to share opinions and they now seem like they are working worse than Congress. Who are we to say that another person's opinion is wrong for them. Collapsing others should only be done because they go against the rules of the site. Collapsing someone does not change their views, but I think to many think it will enhance their views.
To Ben and all other Republicans boasting the Obama Administration as the cause for financial collapse in this nation and the beginning of a socialist movement...
First of all I think you confuse the term socialist with communist, as the majority of capitalistic countries in this world employ some aspects of socialism (which is basically any cooperative act of citizens, through taxes or their own volition, to benefit the entire country or community at the local level), and have been doing so for decades without these countries turning into the U.S.S.R. (which is what I believe of you to be afraid).
Second, you can quote dates of when the Great Recession began all you want, but it doesn't matter. A combination of administrations are responsible for this, leading all the way back to the Reagan Administration. The truth is that there are two main causes for our current economic state: 1.) The deregulation of financial, insurance, and housing markets and 2.) the trading of mortgage derivatives and selling of such derivatives to the American people, when expected to fail. Deregulation, which you republicans only love when relating to the financial sector and central government powers (minus abortion, immigration, and gay marriage rights) in a capitalistic society only works when the interests of the financial giants are to grow the economy and actually compete legitimately. Unfortunately, the companies in control of our economy have interests in loopholes and doing anything in their power to play dirty and "one-up" the other corporations through means other than fair competition, which of course includes taking advantage of their customers rather than simply "being the best" as a utopian capitalist society suggests; this is why financial giants began trading derivative securities (too complex for any law to regulate at the time) on mortgages (having only a minute amount of liquid to actually back the trade...something like 1/26th) which these companies knew would fail due to the extremely high interest rates and low down payments associated. Not only did they create these "bets" (which is all derivatives are), they sold them knowingly to their customers while simultaneously telling them that the derivatives were a solid investment, a complete lie.
To financially back these derivatives, these corporations took insurance from particular insurance companies on derivatives they did not own...that's like taking out an insurance policy on your neighbor's house, you can't because you have an interest in the house burning down. Not to mention that half of the major banks in the world merged with half of the major trading companies and insurance companies to form such corporations as CITIgroup. Finally, the banks could not support any of the loans and mortgages they had given out due to liquidity, the insurance companies could no longer pay for failing derivatives, and the financial firms who had taken out these insurance policies went broke as the insurance companies defaulted on their policies. ALL DO TO DEREGULATION OF THESE INDUSTRIES.
Now the republicans try to blame a president that has been here for three years AFTER the crisis began as the sole problem of why this catastrophe occurred. All Obama has been trying to do is fix the problem...you can't have the banking, housing, insurance, and trading markets collapse without spending money to fix the problem....if you know of a way to do this please, tell every economist in the world because you are smarter than they are.
Also, social programs are of greatest importance at a time like this, when the middle class is being eliminated, so stop complaining about the extra $0.46 you pay for your local HHS or Children and Families facility...you aren't complaining about the obviously more significant amount of money you are paying in taxes for the multi-billionaire energy companies to keep their oil subsidies, are you? Oh yeah I forgot, they are definitely creating jobs....for oil clean-up crews and hazwopper training...oops X that, they are volunteers.
Finally, just to piss you off...
The founding fathers were liberals
Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times throughout his presidency
Reagan legalized abortion as Gov. of California
Ronald Reagan supported gun control
The Federal Reserve was a Republican idea
Healing the sick and feeding the poor are responsibilities of the american people...if you disagree, talk to Jesus.
Trickle-down economics doesn't work, hasn't ever worked, and will never work...and you most likely make less than those of the rich receiving the Bush tax cuts, so you are screwing over yourself everytime you argue to keep the cuts.
A socialist wrote the pledge of allegiance
Separation of church and state is part of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution...and the constitution, not the bible, is the law.
I can go on
What you are seeing is commerce being diverted to emerging markets that once had a majority in poverty. Business flows to the place of least resistance. So China as an example is seeing poor becoming middle class. This is happening everywhere OUTSIDE the matured western nations.
I would argue that Obama theoretically supports this resource and economic condition change. The US and other western nations have been the consumers and he has apologized for that. So as an example, the only way the poor nations get to rise up is for the US and other "rich" nations to hand out money to them so they can become consumers and they can form a middle class. With respect to the green energy, those poorer nations have said to the UN that they cannot afford any sort of green programs. So if the mature nations want to see carbon emissions curtailed they will need to be the ones to pay for it.
The big problem is the US has quickly mounting debt, and lack of economic expansion quick enough to pay for that debt without getting further into debt. We simply do not have the resources to keep up with our own infrastructure and give money to others to build up their middle class without making us more poor.
Math does lie. This notion that Bush did all this is lies. This transfer of wealth has been happening for decades, it just didn't hit a critical breaking point.
I know a couple that are both union workers for the airline industry. They are both retired now, but still have school age kids. The man collects SS because he is older, and because of his age his children are allowed to collect SS until they reach 18. BTW, this person has enough wealth to own an airplane. In their defense, they didn't make the rules. They found a loophole to get those extra benefits each month for those kids, and acted on it. The mistake was that SS has many loopholes and frankly so do all the entitlement programs that often do not make any sense.
Richard,
You do realize Americans die each day... Americans retire each day... The population would drastically decline and America would be in a bigger pickle than it is today. Why do you think no county on this earth has population that is 100% citizens that were born and raised there? Immigration is a MUST... Then again you are a Tea Bagger... All this more likely went over you head.
PissedOffinAZ - You are a complete lunatic. If it weren't for the conservatives battling you progressive liberal idiots this country would have already been destroyed. Everytime you bozos are in charge of the government something gets screwed up big time. Just look at Social Security, it was going strong and would have been completely solvent today if it hadn't been for you progressive demowit liberals deciding in the 60s to start putting the money for SS into the general fund instead of the SS Trust Fund. So, blow your BS smoke up somebody else's butt and quit letting MSNBC and CNN rot your brain. This and many more demowit ideas that have done damage to the country can easily be looked up on google.
The strategy of the wealthy is to degrade the working class to foreign level. Their only purpose is take jobs overseas until the working class is forced to work at minimum wage or below. To accomplish that they need to eliminate all services to the low income and poor.
Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, questioned whether some people classified as poor or low-income actually suffer material hardship. He said that while safety-net programs have helped many Americans, they have gone too far, citing poor people who live in decent-size homes, drive cars and own wide-screen TVs.
Don't you see their way of thinking? If you have a decent-sized home, drive a car, and own a wide screen TV you're not poor. It doesn't matter the age or condition of these items, its the fact that their idea of the poor is someone living in a cardboard box under a bridge and if not, then they're not poor. They do not care for the country, they only care for themselves. As evident by the actions of the previous administration when they took this country to war with Iraq which started the oil price speculation which they never tried to stop which started the economic collapse.
Simple - You are what your name implies - Simple. You forgot one thing nimrod - people are born everyday too. China didn't need immigration to get to a billion people and now they have a requirement that a family can have only one child becuse of over population. But I guess being the idiot liberal that you are you wouldn't know this. I think we could easily do without immigration until we have our country under control.
We are we have cut almost 1.2 trillion for the next ten years. they have closed down much of the self help shops like wood shop and they are considering cutting the auto help program and they are cutting close to 180K troops(Looks like some mom and pop stores will close) and two air craft carriers, they are also looking in to cutting the over 100 billion in base construction in the US(looks like more construction workers unemployed). they are also cutting new weapons development and looking in cutting the retirement and TRI care. Do you have any Idea how much the military stimulus the economy? They have saved more business the any other program.
If your waiting for the republicans to create a job for you you will wait a very long time, if your waiting for a democrat to get you a job you will wait a long time, if you are waiting for the rich to crate a job for you you will wait a long time if your waiting for a poor person to create a job for you you have no hope. Your only hope is you.
Tether, the reason why the rich pay most of the taxes is because they have most of the money! Think about it. A poor person's 10% pales in comparison to a multimillionaire's contribution. Why don't you look at ratio rather than the total bill.
This is incredibly sad and disheartening to me. Particularly at the holiday season. When are we going to start focusing on the needs of our own people and acting upon it and keeping our noses out of Godforesaken places that want nothing to do with us in the first place. Haven't we all had enough of it? Please also Wallstreeters who will be picking up ten million dollar year end bonuses, think twice before you spend $500.00 on a bottle of champagne and throw 2 million dollar dinner parties for New Years Eve. The gap between rich and poor is becoming appalling and increasingly unpalatable.
Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, questioned whether some people classified as poor or low-income actually suffer material hardship. He said that while safety-net programs have helped many Americans, they have gone too far, citing poor people who live in decent-size homes, drive cars and own wide-screen TVs.
Ah, the return of the Reagan "Welfare Queen" remark.
This is hogwash. None of the poor people I know live in decent-size homes, drive cars or have wide-screen TVs.
This is bigotry, a dog-whistle for the Republican base.
I would like one republican to explain to me why are the top 10 states with the highest poverty rates red states? And please, saying that they are poor because they support the blue states is ridiculous. Any serious explanations out there?
"By Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans — nearly 1 in 2 — have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.
The latest census data depict a middle class that's shrinking as unemployment stays high and the government's safety net frays. The new numbers follow years of stagnating wages for the middle class that have hurt millions of workers and families.
"Safety net programs such as food stamps and tax credits kept poverty from rising even higher in 2010, but for many low-income families with work-related and medical expenses, they are considered too 'rich' to qualify," said Sheldon Danziger, a University of Michigan public policy professor who specializes in poverty.
"The reality is that prospects for the poor and the near poor are dismal," he said. "If Congress and the states make further cuts, we can expect the number of poor and low-income families to rise for the next several years."
I have to think many readers are not reading anything or hearing anything other than from Fox news. The above statement from this article sadens me to no end. We have a congress that has no problem spending millions on country's that could care less about the USA other than the money we throw at them. Yet...the republicans are read to throw our own citizens under the bus for the benefit of their wealthy friends....and the democrates are doing nothing but complaining . Are we, the USA, to become a third world nation just to make the wealthy and members of congress happy ? HAve we become a nation more concerned with the welfare of others more so than our own citizens ? This country has lost millions of jobs thanks to trade deals done by congress that benefit the wealthy and big business..but have so far done nothing but take jobs from the USA. Why does the treasuary have less funds coming in...how about the huge loss of jobs to other country's ? And our elected so far...have created what kind of jobs ? Are we to become a service country with low paying jobs as many other country's that are totally controlled by their government ? I am very happy for those that still have jobs....hope they continue for you all..but count folks on your pay going lower while CEO pay goes up..
justathought - The Wall Street folks worked hard and went to school to get to where they are. Nobody just hands them money. So, quit being jealous and stfu. If you wanted to do what they do and make a lot of money, it will take something that you probably don't know anything about - "hard work". This is a free country, at least for now. And I can only pray that the idiot running it is disposed of in the next election or we might slide off into that European socialist secular abyss.
How can this be happening? The recession officially ended over two and a half years ago.
How can this be news? If has been pointed out years ago that nearly half of the work force pays no federal income tax. That would infer that those people were in the tax categories that would relegate them as being "poor".
As one of the individuals in the article commented, "poor" is a relative term. When one person is unable to afford a new car even though their present car is serviceable, to them that is "poor". But to a person who rides the bus, that is poor. And to the person who can't afford bus fare and must walk, that is poor.
Dem in Texas - How about because there are about 35 Red states and only about 15 Blue states and the ratio would only be logical. Then maybe you could explain why the majority of blue states are already or about bankrupt. And don't say because you are supporting the red states. Because we already know the reason is liberalism and socialism don't work.
Uh-oh, it looks like the GOP has us right where they want us.
Obama/Biden 2012
How's that "Supply Side (or Trickle Down of Voo-Doo) Economics" working out for you? Merry Christmas....
@ Richard,
Ok, so 70% of the states are red and 30% are blue. So why aren't there at least 3 blue states in the top 10 most impoverished?
I don't argue that blue states are always fiscally responsible, but the article isn't about fiscal responsibility, it's about poverty. Part of the reason the blue states are bankrupt is probably because they would rather be fiscally irresponsible than see their citizens impoverished. Look at the southern states, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. you can't get any more red than that. And they look comparable to countries like Honduras or El Salvador. They are a complete mess. Their income disparity is on par with that of dictatorships. And the saddest part, it's almost exclusively drawn on the lines of race. I'd rather see our country turn into California than Alabama.
The fact that you think socialism exists in it's most minimalist form in this country is just another demonstration of why we are near last in the developed world for education. You clearly do not know what socialism is.
Link for proof, please. The last election showed Obama received more Wall Street money than any other president in history. Obama's crony elite are the ones favored here, and they are moving jobs out of the country.
Aside from the fact that America has the second highest corporate taxes in the world, Corporations have been fleeing America due to Union arrogance and regulatons more than anything else.
Heck, even Al Gore and his Climate Company, GIM and Obama's creation from the Joyce Foundation, Chicago Climate Exchange, were registered in the Isle of Man to escape U.S. TAXES!!!
Capitalism and Free Enterprise propelled this country to the greatest in the world. We now have an anti-business and anti-capitalistic president. We have no jobs, the economy is tanking, middle class is gone. Bash the job creators, and this is what you get.
Greece, bankrupt due to the policies of taxing the rich and socialism, now has implemented PRO-BUSINESS policies to get the economy going!
Gary Root, it has been hours since your post, but I thought I still had to comment on it. While I agree the defense department need a huge overhaul and things need changed, military officers do not in any way live a life of ease. They are far below the compensation of their corporate equals in level of responsibility. They often give their lives (literally and figuratively) to serve their Soldiers Sailors, Airmen and Marines. Officers do make more than Enlisted, but Enlisted have a clear path to leadership and even (not that difficult I mind you) to becoming an officer as well. Are pensions out of control, maybe. But that is for that far larger number of enlisted than officers as well. They were promised for those doing at least 20 years of service, many of who gave up chances at corporate jobs to continue to serve, knowing they would one day receive the pension.
Reform the military complex, yes. But mind you, those who serve, all of them, even the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, does not make military policy. That is done only by civilians. The Sec Def is always a civilian. The President is Commander in Chief. Congress controls military pay and organization. Don't blame the Service Men and Women, blame the officials you elect.
@ Army,
I totally agree. What I don't agree with is why we are paying billions if not trillions of dollars to develop weapons that are 20 years ahead of any other country on the planet. We do not need to keep paying Raytheon billions to develop missiles that in the end are going to be used to kill a couple of guys in a tent and blow up their 1974 chevy pick-up (gross oversimplification I know but you get what I'm saying). Pay our soldiers more, pay our officers more, let Raytheon and Haliburton starve.
Thank you very much mister food stamp president, and the rest of the democrats that have caused this.
Nice reputation to go out on.
Okay
I read the article and I read the comments... all of you that are blaming one
party or another are hiding behind your righteous indignation.... we are to
blame... the whole USA... what we consider poverty in this country is a joke...
If you smoke cigarettes at $10 a pack, or
drink alcohol or do drugs including marijuana then you are not poor you are
just a poor spender… If you are buying your children game stations and have a
flat screen TVs, live in a house that you are paying mortgage on, have cable
television or 2 yr cell phone contracts you are not poor just a poor spender…
The
people who live without house phones… don’t own a television or game stations… are
poor… people who shop second hand stores are poor.. I have raised two children
on my own for over 15 years… I have worked two jobs at a time to do this… my
kids never went hungry... but they never had cell phone or gaming systems… we
went without TV before we went without food… and i never made more than $20,000 a yr
I use to work in a housing authority and the
people there thought Christmas was more important than rent... I would remind
them that their children would have no place to play with that $300 toy if they
were evicted because they didn’t pay their rent…
So get your heads out of your collective asses and quit blaming the government... truth in fiction... the people should not be scared of their government... the government should be scared of their people..
So... jobs began fleeing this country under Obama? ROFL
You need to go back and historically look at who has initiated bills that subsidize outsourced work. Start in the late 80's with Bush Sr's NAFTA (which was originally conceived and implemented by Bush - Clinton only wrapped it up) and work from there.
You are severely misinformed.
Wow, fairywm, I had to read 109 comments before I found an intelligent one that actually identifies the problem. Thanks!
You're right Alex. The trouble all started with the Reagan Admin. Wish we were back in the good ol' days of Carter. You also blame primarily the Republicn party as the catalyst for our current woes when the Community Reinvestment Act and the notion that everyone in America regardless of income should own a home came into being. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were asked on the floor of the Senate about concerns relating to housing finance vehicles and each time stated that there was no problem. Long and short, there is plenty of bipartisan blame to go around
I know that this is completely off topic, but I hate this format for news reports. It takes longer to load, scrolling is hellishly slow, and clicking on anything takes forever to load. All of this is in comparison to MSNBC's other format where you have the news report on one page, and you have to click on the "View All Comments" button to see all the newsvine comments on another web page.
You guys know what I'm talking about. Does anyone else prefer that other format?
Where are the fathers who made the babies who need the diapers and food and housing and education that they will not support? Why does this become my responsibility? Many of our economic problems are due to bad decisions by Congress (preemptive warring for example), but most of the responsibility is with ourselves.
"That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the NEWLY DEVELOPED POVERTY MEASURE"
This sentence from the article tells you all you need to know. The method for determining who is poor and who is low income was CHANGED by the Obama administration to INCREASE the numbers. And, of course, they rely on CENSUS data, which they ensured would be SKEWED by the inclusion of illegal aliens in the group that the article refers to as "Americans"
In fact, the Obama administration has a consistent record of altering the determining methods and formulas to achieve his desired results in other areas. He has done so in the areas already noted as well as with the cost of living, inflation, Medicaid, and others.
He and the Democrats have also consistently taken advantage of the fact that the Congressional Budget Office can use ONLY the facts and figures given them to rate the effect of legislation. This was illustrated in the "Obamacare" legislation where they counted the same moneys twice and removed some items to SEPARATE bills in order to hide costs from CBO scrutiny.
If the officers of any "evil" corporations cooked the books the way that Obama and the Dems have, they'd be thrown in prison.
Republican , Democrat..Who cares?
Six Waltons Have More Wealth Than the Bottom 30% of Americans
The Majoirity of Wal-Mart Employees are Below the poverty level. YOU TELL ME WHY THE MIDDLECLASS IS DISAPEARING ?
The GOP has consistently kept taxes at 60 year lows on the top earners while chopping social safety nets. The only department that received an increase in the GOP budget proposal----defense. Start 2 wars and cut taxes is the mark of insanity.
One top earner, Warren Buffett, says that the nation's wealthiest pay too little. The majority of Americans see the infrastructure in decline. Jobs programs are ignored by the GOP. The treasury is long past empty due to declining revenues. Go to opensecrets.org and see the net wealth of your HoR and Senate members. You will note that President Obama has almost all of his money in US Treasury Bills.
Most House and Senate members invest in defense, Pharma, and other areas where they can pass legislation to boost the profits. What they don't make in "cash under the table", they make on insider trading---both parties.
Stop listening to the "class warfare" game of the GOP and replace them with progressives.
Cut that bloated sacred cow of a defense budget and increase tax on the top earners. Bring our troops back to the US and let's invest in our country.
Starterup-BO is full of BS. This goof has been in office for almost four years and you still blame Bush? Grow up. Where is all that hope and change this idiot offered? You demoboobs fell for it hook line and sinker. what has he done-that right nothing. Don't give me this health care crap. I don't want to pay for someone else's health care. Mine already costs too much. He has done NOTHING!!!!
jolly... right on man, people choose what they want. LBJ's war on poverty and wanting to create the great society did us no favors. Seems that the comments made over 2000 years ago are still applicable today....
the poor will be with you always and (while harsh) if you don't work you don't eat.
I am sure that many will argue the latter but fail to understand that doing something is better than nothing and that yes a very small number can't physically or mentally do any task.
easy there nifty fifty, obama is good at campaign rhetoric and threatening vetoes. Isn't that something?
Entitlement spending has more than doubled in just the last 10 years!
2/3 of Federal Spending is Entitlements.
We tried handouts, it only resulted in more people deciding to take them instead of working.
Crops rot in the fields, because no one is WILLING to pick them. They simply make so much more on the dole.
All Gov't handouts need to be limited to the amount you can make full time at minimum wage. That includes food stamps, welfare, housing - everything combined.
Or at minimum, people getting handouts should be required to work for them. Gov't can use people to clean streets, sort recycling, maintain right of ways, watch elderly or young people or have them available for the private sector to use.
Even COMMUNISTS said: If you don't work, you don't eat.
We simply cannot compete by paying people not to work.
@american-2051576: Even with 3 years of college under my belt, plenty of work experience and a go getter attitude, it took me over 3 months to find a job that would help pay for my insurance, student loans, rent and utilities, etc. I couldnt even find work flipping burgers since those positions were filled mostly by high school students (and frankly a Burger King paycheck will not pay the bills). The job market is terrible now. If it took me that long to find work with my credentials, imagine how hard it is for someone who wasnt as fortunate as myself in regards to education/experience.
Defense related spending is slated at $1.2T to 1.4T for 2012 with total revenues of $2.2T--proving Defense gets over half. Fuzzy math---betcha.
Lies upon lies by the right.
sandtrich - so where are obama sponsered legislation (when he was a US senator) that addressed these inequities? Where are the democrats bills or obamas encouragement for such bills? interesting that we still have no FY2012 budget, even though the house passed one long ago. Our constitution allows that reconciliation is acceptable in getting both the house and senate to pass legislation.
libs are so incompetent in seeing that they are also a big part of the problem and that obama cannot understand that being POTUS is not the same as being a congressman.
who cares-684280
what Obama is guilty of it the continous rolling over and letting the Republicans get their way. This is my BIGGEST disappointment in Obama - giving in...so who do you really want to blame for maxing out the credit cards?
Roy, it's been a while since I have visited but I see that you continue to misinform...the poverty level has been steadily falling with a few exceptions of rising and then falling again.
So as we bicker back and forth, the Fed secretly gives the banks billions without our knowledge (reported by Bloomberg - Google it!) Neiman Marcus sells out of the $395,000 Ferraris, banking and investment house CEOs are about to enjoy another round of insane bonuses - all to the tune of starving millions.
Who's to blame? The Democrats and Republicans both. The truth is that our politicians are are all in the back pocket of the corporations. Reagan deregulated them, under Clinton and NAFTA they all outsourced our jobs, we all know what a disaster Bush II was and Obama squandered his opportunity to capture the tide of discontent and bring about real change.
This country is circling the drain as we all point fingers and sling mud at each other. The 24-hour news cycle has created an environment where we'll never come together as one nation again to solve our common problems. We'll bicker and fight as we make our way down the toilet until this once great nation is nothing but a third-world shadow of its former self.
correction to my blunder: income level has been falling - not poverty level. Poverty level has been rising.
I will vote for whoever runs against Obama! The guy has been an abject failure since 2008! Why are the libbies so blind!
What a mistake we made thinking that a guy who's primary job was as a community organizer could actually be experienced enough to be President! Will we learn from that mistake? I hope so!
ABO 2012, more than ever!
Amanda-2017567
"DHS has classified a number of activities as indicators of terrorism and it's not just about bombs and Muslim extremists. Suspected terrorism includes any of the following: alternative media, animal rights activists., technology-enabled social/political activism, militia movements and conspiracy theorists, lawful acts of civil disobedience (think Rosa Parks refusing to give up her bus seat; under this law she could be arrested as a terrorist) people who stockpile food (more than 7 days worth of food is onsidered stockpiling) and weapons stockpiles, and even practitioners of 'radical Norse mysticism'. Seriously, when was the last time someone blew up a building 'in the name of the Norse God Odin?'
So those returning soldiers aren't going to find themselves in the unemployment line; they're going to find themselves ordered to arrest/detain American citizens who are considered terroristic threats."
Sadly, the terrorists they are worried about now are frustrated Americans about to start their own French Revolution.
The 1 % are probably getting pretty nervous as more Americans are "on to them." Look at these posts at MSNBC alone and you can see the frustration of the 99% here. Hence this new rule.
B-762 - who said life was fair? Who said it woukldn't take effort?
I won't take credit for the following observation, but having lived through more than a couple of recessions and resultant layoffs I understand the truth of it...
Congradulations on finding employment after only 3 months. you obviously were motivated.
BTW - Just because someone wants to have certain goodies in life doesn't mean that their choice of occupation will allow for them. My father emigrated from germany in the late 20's, never had a university education and wasn't afraid of doing work. I don't even know all of the occupations he had, a few of them were cook, bum, US arny service and retired as a millwright. In 1970 I found out that he had a lifetime goal of wanting to own a mercedes, it wasn't new and he found it in germany. Point is, he did what it took to get through the economic bad times of the depression, wars and a variety of recessions.
Put a GOP member on the barbecue.
Many, many comments restored. Don't report based on disagreement, folks. Not these:
1.21 deleted, danl-1413161 fantasizing about 'HUNDREDS OF LAWMAKERS AND POLITICIANS DEAD'. Banned, reported to authorities. Avoid deathwishing and threats.
A little disrespect often goes a long way.
Sicken Tired, Dominic_H, Ben-636050, Chris -4324837, moonbeamracer, Dennis Price, dongwork4yuda, you're each suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor. Read it:
A little disheartened to see it turn political so early, but it's relatively on-topic.
Last year, CEO's pay went up a MINIMUM OF 27%. With that, anyone who thinks its only about how irresponsible people are for getting into credit card debt, or losing their own house, is only seeing one part of the picture. Wages have to go up. If someone purchased a house 15 years, has been working in the same place for 20, and only experienced a pay increase of 10% over that time, of course that person is going to be swallowed in debt. The price increase in gas and corn alone has driven up prices, and even the price of copper and nickel has had a hand in it, too. Why is it that only CEOs, CFOs, etc., get such pay increases, if their workers get nothing, or even experience a pay cut?
MORE LIBERAL PROPOGANDA:
A) They don't tell us that this INCLUDES CHILDREN! So a welfare family of 9 gets 9 votes while a responsable working family of 4 gets 4 votes.
B) Can we do another "poll" to see how many of these "impoverished" folks have a $1200-a-year phone contract??!!!
I love the people who post from work (check their time stamps) and rag on everyone else for being lazy and unethical.
We are broke because you FEAR freaks let Bush's brain convince you we need to spend billions on untraceable private armies and contractors to protect us. AND; now you want even more spent on some Berlin Wall on the south boarder, all while saying taxes need to be cut. Where do you guys get this stuff? Social services has always been far less than corporate welfare, yet you still want to squash the little guy...me thinks you are a paid troll when to say this stuff...or worse; a troll who isn't smart enough to get paid to be rude and hateful.
Well said Wavesofgrain!!
baylle - so much for LBJ's war on poverty and the creation of the great society.
I knew from the git go in 2009 that recovery wouldn't be quick, but obama screwed the pooch by not remaining focused on the economy, but rather pursued healthcare and wall street reform thinking that the economy was fine.
Obama didn't roll over for the republicans, he ignored them the first two years, just like he ignored the bowles-simpson report, the midterm elections and his job creation business council recommendations.
If anyone reads carnegies book "how to win friends and influence people" they would realize that anyone who wants to be a leader doesn't go out of his way to try and publicly humiliate another group or individual. Politics allows for pointing out differences or asking questions, but obama acts like a congressman and not as a POTUS in his comments to the right. The real give away is when one looks at his body language when speaking.
BEN well stated and very true, why that comment was collapsed I cannot say but I will say that the most astute observations are often it seems the ones that are either deleted or collapsed.
You are a regular Will Rogers Ben and gave me a chuckle. Hopefully your commentary will be restored. Right now I am on the short end of things myself but I am not expecting the rich folk to bail me out or Uncle Sam. Because I found that any hand along the way always comes with a price one way or the other, usually your freedom or dignity, I'm looking to hold on to both.
I wonder how long it will be before we have to learn Chinese as our language.
Obama we TRUSTED, Now we're BUSTED. Ron Paul 2012
I wonder if Republicans will blame Obama if they control the government in 2013. After all, they've promised to fix everything if they take control.
I wonder if the Republicans can live up to the high expectations they demand now.
Why is it any comment that places the blame on BO, where it belongs, has been collapsed? I guess free speech only counts when the libtards agree with what is being said.
A democrats dream - the more poor, destitute, and un-educated the masses become the easier their votes can be purchased with the promise of "free" handouts, which then serve to make the next generation even more poor and destitute.
Here we go again.
Over 2,100 posts and the majority of them want MORE government help. I guess those illiteracy rates we keep hearing about are true. Well, it's not surprising when we have created the entitlement mentality in nearly half of the populace. Of course our government loves the ignorance of the masses, it's just easier to manipulate them. When most American's read at an 8th grade level, the comprehension level must be adolescent. When most America's, even here on the prolific Newsvine Scholar thread, can't use -- there, they're or their -- correctly in a sentence the expression of need is obvious. When most American's can't calculate 20% of 440 in their head the concept of economics must be overwhelming.
But I digress.
Can someone please tell me how raising the upper tax bracket will somehow help our economic and social problems? Historically, changing the upper income tax rates has done nothing to increase revenues. Even in the 50's, 60's and 70's -- when upper tax rates were never lower than 72% -- tax receipts generated revenues of about 18% of GDP. Even breaking the revenue rate down to income taxes the range has been an almost consistent 8% +/- since the 1950's.
However, there have been significant swings associated with economic booms (dot-coms, housing, etc) and busts (recessions). From this it only goes to reason that we can play with the marginal tax rates all we want, it won't matter. Obviously the only true engine of economic growth is an increasing GDP. Most of the reason we don't see significant increases in revenue with increasing tax rates is obvious. We have a tax code that is 72,000+ pages long. For all you "Loophole-a-holics" have fun trying to eliminate them in this morass of bureaucracy. In the past 2 years the IRS received over 220 million inquiries about tax filings, they couldn't answer more than 25% of them.
So, what's the solution?
First of all, we need a total reform of our criminal progressive tax system. Either with a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax. The massive confusion that our current tax system creates is never going to be corrected. Our tax code changes every single day, this can no longer continue.
There have been about 4,428 tax code changes in the last 10 years. There were approximately 580 changes in 2010 alone. Between 1986 and 2005 Congress passed over 14,400 amendments to the tax code, this equates to almost 3 changes every day for 19 straight years.
It is estimated that taxpayers pay $431.1 Billion annually, or 30% of total income taxes collected, just to comply and administer the tax code. A reduction in tax code complexity would help reduce the National Debt by $1.4 trillion over a decade. Over 6.1 billion hours are spent by individuals and businesses complying and completing their taxes.
Taxation should never be a system of rewards and punishments. Its purpose should be to simply fund the needs of our government mandated by the Constitution. Government has not, and will not, control its size. No government agency, such as the IRS, should strike such fear into We the People. Our government works for us, not the other way around.
Secondly, we need to resurrect our once envied economic engine, domestic exportable manufacturing. In the 1960's exportable manufacturing was responsible for over 50% of our GDP, today it is 9%. The once strongest economy has devolved into a consumption/service sector economy. Consumption can only occur if consumers have money to buy things. In order to buy things people need to have a job, a good long term job. Service sector jobs will never recreate the wealth, prosperity and standard of living we enjoyed 50 years ago. Today even our service jobs are being off-shored. Where will our new economy come from? Government? Our economy is the government. Without growth, We the People suffer much more than our government. Despite economic conditions, which we have little control over, we are required to pay taxes. Government STILL gets its 18+/-% of GDP, we don't!
As I mentioned at the top of my post, contrary to popular opinion or what our "leaders" tell us, most Americans are NOT college material. We never will be. When there were simple factory jobs a marginal student could graduate from high school and get a reasonable job in a factory somewhere. That benefit no longer exists. As we see today’s graduates from college, with all their degrees are unable to find jobs, it's because we no longer have a diversity of economic sectors to choose from.
Our immediate goals need to be multifactorial to bring jobs back to our soil.
Trade reform must be enacted immediately. NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO and others must be eliminated. We don't need FREE trade, we need FAIR trade.
Taxes. Both personal and especially corporate taxes must be reformed. We have the highest corporate tax rate of major economic nations. Our current 39.6% (including state and local) corporate tax rate must be changed. The OECD average is 18.6%. Contrary to the Progressive delusion, corporations have no moral responsibility to stay here and pay more taxes to our incompetent criminal government. Neither do We the People.
Regulations need to be immediately reformed and most of them eliminated. The SBA recently reported that regulation costs American business $1.75 TRILLION per year, and cost small businesses, those with fewer than 20 workers, $10,585 per employee, or 36% more than paid by large businesses, those with 500 or more. 89% of all businesses in the U.S. employ less than 20 employees. Large businesses account for only 0.3% of all businesses. Guess where the majority of the taxes on the "RICH" and regulatory costs are going to come from? The Code of Federal Regulations in the 2007 edition totaled 145,816 pages, 8,000 pages longer than in 2000. Appropriations for federal regulatory agencies increased during the Bush years from $27 billion in FY 2001 to $44.9 billion in FY 2007-a 44 percent increase in inflation-adjusted dollars. Bush added over $60 BILLION Dollars of regulatory costs to business in his 8 years. Obama has already added an additional $38 BILLION with another $14 BILLION in the pipeline. Do any of you actually believe we can recreate a strong economy with all these regulatory costs? Some communities even have regulations restricting children having a "Lemonade Stand", or selling Girl Scout Cookies, in front of their house! Common sense seems to have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Unions MUST become industry supportive rather than destructive. No amount of historical bac slapping can justify the destruction unions have created in our economy. Yes, over 100 years ago the unions were helpful in creating job safety rules, today laws have been created to prevent many of these hazards. No significant job safety issue has been created in over 25 years. Other than the "Family Leave Act", no work related benefit has been created in the same time frame. In April of this year a Bloomberg article called "Runaway CEO Pay Could Support 102,000 U.S. Jobs". Socialist Richard Trumka of the AFL-CIO stated that:
This equates to jobs paying about $16 an hour, or a little over $33,000 per year. According to the 2010 BLS report there were 14.7 million union workers in America in 2010. Using a conservative $50 in union dues per month this gives the unions $735 MILLION collected in dues per month, or $8.8 BILLION per year. Using the AFL-CIO's own median wage numbers this would create over 265,000 jobs per year. Even if you only use HALF these numbers, more jobs could be created from union dues than from the CEO's pay.
Finally, we need an economic sector that can begin to create jobs instantly. We are standing on that sector right now.
ENERGY!
Regardless of the environmentalist’s glee for the "Green Initiative", we and the world need energy RIGHT NOW, not in 10 or 20 years. Green technology is decades from being efficient and affordable enough for the energy needs of our nation. We have the largest energy reserves in the world. We MUST be exploiting this to generate increased GDP and subsequently increased tax revenues. The Keystone XL pipeline is an immediate job and revenue producer. Our tremendous assets in coal, natural gas, shale-gas, oil, shale-oil and nuclear energy can be used right now to generate massive revenues to restore our economy and eliminate our massive Debt.
We need to be thinking of today and tomorrow rather than continue to blame and point fingers at what happened in the past.
Our, our children’s and our nation’s future depends on it!
Gary (1.11): I'm one of those Army officer veterans, and I don't particularly think I have a "plush" retirement. In fact, I'm 65 and still working (and will probably have to work for another 10 years). So, unbeknownst to you, military veterans are not ALL living a plush life on our pensions.
bicker bicker bicker. why don't you all do yourselves and everyone else a favor and write your representatives and senators instead of each other? better yet, why don't you organize and run for office yourselves?
if anyone is going to vote for someone because they can't stand to see the other guy in office, you are throwing your vote away. you may as well stand in front of a mirror and make faces at yourself. the right and left play the public like a fiddle. did you know that income taxation is less than 100 years old? why do we still have it when we didn't need it before the great depression?
as far as immigration goes, i will tell a story. i'm from missouri. missouri is cracking down on illegal immigration just like everywhere else. a lady there has a pear orchard. there were not enough migrant workers one year to harvest when it was time. she hired a bunch of locals to pick her crop. she checked on their progress after a couple of days. half of the local whites she hired weren't there. most of the other half weren't working. all of the immigrant workers were working diligently, and had actually picked so much more fruit she had to look for them, thinking they had ran off as well, but in actuality, they had done so much more work they were out of sight. half of her crop ruined that year, not because of drought, blight, or pests, but because of lazyness and americans not wanting to work.
we need immigrant workers in this country. they do the jobs we do not want to do, and in fact, refuse to do.
Just how poor does he want us to be so that he will be satisfied ???????
Freedom, that may have been long, but also the most common sense and logical thing we have seen on here yet. I may not agree with everything you have said, but you are clearly on the right path. You are in the middle on many issues, both Repubs and Dems could agree with a majority of what you stated. Great post. Thank you for the logic.
I'd sure like to see that report. Looks like lots of manipulation of the stats to make it look worse than it really is. For instance:
Are these kids part of the "family of 4" making less than $45k?
Richard Gozinyou,
RE: ALL your posts
Richard, the only thing smaller than your vocabulary is your mental capacity!
Richard Gozinyou, you're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
scrambolo, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Really? That's not how it's spun by those busy stomping their jackboots upon the plague of poor that must be eradicated....despite the fact that the poor do provide an astonishing amt of jobs.
There would be absolutely no reason for any state, regional, or county Department of Social Services to exist if no one were poor. That's an awful lot of not just civil service jobs that *poof* wouldn't exist, but also the supply contracts for the paper-pushing these jobs do, the construction contracts for those govt bldgs, not to mention all the beneficiaries of *workfare assignments* who are able to remain in business at a lower overhead b/c much of their labor pool works for the price of a *welfare check*.
Fingerprinting, urine testing, photo ID cards, EBT cards, EBT PoP terminals, EBT ATMs, bus tokens, bus passes, day care centers, Head Start centers, free or reduced price breakfast & lunch programs, subsidized housing, new construction of shoebox apts, health clinics, nursing homes....no poor, big dent in all those *service providers*, huh?
USPS would take a huge hit b/c DSS does everything via snail mail.
All the paychecks of those ppl who work for or contract w/ DSS would *poof* vanish as well. Nothing going into the economy from the millions it costs to run ea DSS office, making the economy even worse than it is.
There's an enormous industry centered around keeping ppl poor. Everything associated w/ DSS is merely the tip of the iceberg. Think about it. Every single govt office or place of business that relies upon their *clientele* to be those who are living from paycheck to paycheck....is history w/ no poor ppl.
Why do you think the % has been pretty much the same since they began keeping stats on poverty in the US in 1959? The poor are one of our biggest job creators.
America You've Abandoned Your Own People for some Gold Coins - Vermin
America I've given you all and now I'm nothing. America two dollars and twenty seven cents, America
when will we end the human war? Go f’k yourself with your atom bomb. Make us the workers work sixteen hour days only to subsist. America this is quite serious America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set. America is this correct? I'd better get right down to the job. America you sneer
at the millions upon millions of Americans dying stealth deaths slow painful broken spirits broken backs broken hearts you make me want to puke on YOU !!!!!
You should have seen me reading Madison, Paine, Jefferson, Adams and even Pound, I’m perfectly right
YOU ARE CORRUPT - I won’t say the Lord’s Prayer no longer words of defeatism mystical visions and cosmic vibrations. America emotional life being run by Madison Ave jerk offs the worst of the worst war criminals as Cheney men above the law – We now enter the absolute Police State – Alms Alms Alms for YOUR children - This is not America?????
I have to laugh at the people who are trying to blame the current woes on "socialism." Is your memory so short that you have forgotten about the housing bubble and financial collapse and the role they have played in ruining the economy? Were those things due to "socialist" policies? Were those things due to the poor? Or the illegal immigrants? Were those things due to welfare recipients?
Nope.. not even remotely. Stop shifting blame to whatever group you feel it is socially acceptable to hate on right now. While the financial collapse was not the only reason for our economic woes, it was/is a significant part of it. With all of this talk about personal responsibility.. why are we forgetting all of those who were involved in the financial collapse? Oh right.. it's much easier to blame those who have little power and can't defend themselves.
As it currently stands right now, it is only a matter of a short period of time now before the loss of the middle class becomes the very loss of the United States of America itself. I can promise you all beyond any shadow of a doubt this is all being orchestrated and contrived. - Rick Carter
Historically, the festering warfare between the rich and the poor is a hopeless, endlessly enduring, and unquenchable social war. The only possible buffer and protection against that kind of endless class warfare is the presence of a substantial (i.e., dominant) middle class. There is no better guarantee of a nation divided than a nation which is divided between rich and poor. - Rick Carter
(By now most people should know what ultimately happens to nations which are divided.) "A nation divided against itself cannot stand" - Sam Houston & Abraham Lincoln
Rick,
Leon Trotsky. Anybody rember him? To paraphrase him: The middle class historically serves as a buffer zone between the wealthy capitalists and the poor workers. A healthy middle class usually upholds the right wing idealism of the capitalists since they recognize the capitalists as their source of income. Whenever the middle class begins to shrink, however, and their numbers slide down towards poverty level this buffer zone begins to disappear, and when they reach the bottom and join the ranks of the poor they are prone to take a hard turn to the left.
This is true on both sides of the coin, its either pro taxation making the government the source of funding or through capitalistic society via privatization of funds that balance between the common support of citizens and the freedom to the pursuit of happiness. This a hard road because the adage of technology helps people but puts people out of work as machines take over. I am greatly afraid to see that millions of Americans may never find consistent work, ever! Are we clever or we self destructive, lets go ask the Chinese who have waiting for these days to wake up and take the lead from us being naive.
I agree totally Rick.
G
E.R.,
" lets go ask the Chinese who have waiting for these days to wake up and take the lead from us being naive."
OK, but what are the Chinese waking up to? Has all our modern technology and wealth brought us true peace and happiness? Maybe as a whole we are living longer, but happiness? That's a hard one to judge. Think about that the next time you work your way through the rush hour traffic jams and gaze at the hovering layers of smog over our cities.
Happiness is not a right. That's strictly up to the individual.
Absolute agreement here Rick! The cost of living has slowly risen on calculation based on upper- lower class and middle class income! The cost of all essentials has now overcome what the wage earner in those categories makes. The lower income people have been screwed for a long time! When basic essentials, I mean food, clothing transportation cost, and housing are added together it's more than most average workers earn! This is before you buy health insurance,which they are trying to make mandatory! And before any hi and mighty jump on the educate yourself wagon, look at the cost of that and where it really gets you!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Trotsky is wrong about the middle class. It is not a buffer, but a transition zone to becoming truely wealthy in a capitalist society. These people are your future big business owners. The larger the class grows, the more your economy is growing.
Over Half of the people who are wealthy started poor in this country. Why is it shrinking? We are being told we cannot become rich because the rich won't let us. I don't see the rich holding us up, I see a government that has made being a small business person a living nightmare.
Rights that the government picks who is going to be the winner or loser in life's lottery!
Tim W.-1074098
Happiness is not a right.
========
........I believe a guy named Jefferson once wrote in 1776:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
....Now perhaps Tommy meant that we have the right to pursue happiness, but not the right to have happiness, but that would make the pursuit rather meaningless and stupid, kind of like chasing your tail, don't you think? I really don't believe that Thomas Jefferson was a stupid man.
........Dave (2.9), you beat me to it before I could post.
"I don't see the rich holding us up, I see a government that has made being a small business person a living nightmare."
======
1. In some cases, the "rich" and the "government" are one in the same, do you honestly believe that people like the Kochs and Grover Norquist haven't exerted undue influence on capitol Hill? Just he pledge to Grover is enough to make one want to vomit.
2. I work for a small business. My boss (and owner) is doing gang busters (although we got no raises), part of it because of the generous tax breaks he got from the evil Obama. You people talk one thing, but I'm actually living and seeing a competely different scenario. Our company has been lucky in that the majority of our customer base has not been adversely affected by the recession. Unfortunately, that is not the case for others (see 3 below).
3. We are a consumer driven economy and the Middle Class is the engine that drives it. Income is the fuel for that engine, and the fuel tanks are running near empty. You can get rid of all government and regulations, but if customers can't walk into your business with money in their pockets, it won't matter a lick. Blaming everything on government misses the point and won't solve the problem. And no, I am not a big fan of DC, primarily they obviously no longer care about the Middle Class.
DB,
Not necesarrily true. There are many in the middle class who wish to join the wealthy elite, and often many make it. Some through hard work and intelligence. Some through luck. Others through whatever means possible. It is this strong attraction that usually holds the middle class to accepting the political values of the wealthy capitalists. They find it in their best interests to do so. But the middle class is a necessary section of society and is not there just to supply a "transition" from one class to another even though some have found it to be one way of doing so. I think that what Trotsky was alluding to was that if the rewards and advantages for being the "stewards" of the wealthy class disappear this middle class will start looking at the political value systems of the working poor......therefore the hard turn to the left. If they ever get to feeling oppressed I can guarantee you they will take that turn.
Can you say that ghettos exist just to create basketball stars? Statistics would probably show a similar success rate to those who transition from the middle class to the elite class.
But go for it. I hope you make the transition and make it to the top.
Richard Gozinyou - Just a thought - you must know a lot of these hard working wall streeters that don't take our money. Well how do you think they get it? If we are fortunate enough to have a pension, we have no convenient choices except to give it to these crooks and hope they know what they're doing. Our banks and our pension funds hand them the money so in fact we are for all purposes forced to give them our money. So these hard working conmen skim a little off the top (that must be the hard work that you're talking about) and then bail out their money when the markets start heading south. Of course our pension funds sit there tanking long after they got their funds out. At the same time they're shorting the stocks in our pension funds. Where did you get your education?
The decline of this once great nation was caused by the Baby Boomers who spent the past 40 years voting themselves more benefits than the system could possibly sustain without breaking. Now it is broken.
The boomers inherited a freest and most prosperous nation the world has ever seen. They leave for their children a nation with a bankrupt Social Security, bankrupt Medicare, bankrupt pensions both public and private and a $15 trillion dollar and counting debt. The Boomers inherited the "Land of the Free" and voted to transform it into the worlds "Prison Nation". American Boomers have left their children with a future of poverty and despair.
How many Boomers protested when George Bush added the free prescription drug plan onto an already bankrupt Social Security system at the urging of the AARP?
Don't go blaming corrupt politicians for the economic tragedy we face today. It is the boomers who voted out any politician who dared speak the truth about how Social Security and Medicare were intergenerational ponzi schemes.
You Boomers knew drastic changes were needed in your voting back in 1992 when Ross Perot showed you all where the country was headed with his campaign. You ignored him. Thanks a lot Boomers.
You Boomers could have elected a LIBERTARIAN at any time and saved the country from this mess, but you valued your benefits more than your children's future.

dbakron - I always wondered why when I was self employed years ago that I went back to working for someone else, the paperwork sucked.
Jem, yep us boomers are to blame, after all we elected all those politicians who sold us on social engineering and that such social engineering would be sustainable. Such a shame that those we elected to look after our and Americas challenges started to look forward to their own re-election instead.
I commend you for at least realizing that Americas challenges are not just due to political ideology, however the majority of ALL generations now think that they are entitled to a standard of living that is unrealistic for everyone.
BTW - booms and busts happen regularly in the US, I doubt that the baby boomers can be blamed for their regular occurance.
Zenobia Bechtol...18 years old with a 7 month old baby...needs government assistance to survive.
And we wonder why the country is going broke ???
Entitlement spending has more than doubled in just the last 10 years!
2/3 of Federal Spending is Entitlements.
We tried handouts, it only resulted in more people deciding to take them instead of working.
Crops rot in the fields, because no one is WILLING to pick them. They simply make so much more on the dole.
All Gov't handouts need to be limited to the amount you can make full time at minimum wage. That includes food stamps, welfare, housing - everything combined.
Or at minimum, people getting handouts should be required to work for them. Gov't can use people to clean streets, sort recycling, maintain right of ways, watch elderly or young people or have them available for the private sector to use.
Even COMMUNISTS said: If you don't work, you don't eat.
We simply cannot compete by paying people not to work.
Actually, Jesus Christ said it before Abe et al "A kingdom divided itself cannot stand".
Looks, also, like the Trotsky paraphrase, the dream of Barak's Administration, is rapidly materializing.
When will America awaken to what Pravda reported a few years back, that America is already further along the road to a Socialist State than the USSR ever was!
Barak's declaration of "a major shift" was absolutely true - what he promised there he has delivered - socialism furthered; a creed he was raised in and lives out with body and soul. Watch out and wake up America: before long we will become the economically divided nation that will make control of the populace easy to impose. The attention will then be turned to the rich, who must be made to fund the regime's policies - who is it is continually requiring all forms of tax increases on the "rich" already?
Doesn't take a genius to see who is calling for taxes while squeezing the middle-class they pretend to be champions of - they give a little with one hand and take more with the one on your shoulder.
McCarthy may have gone about things with a blunderbuss but we now live in the era his actions sought to prevent - we are truly being governed by Socialists in the White House and the Senate.
Thankfully sense prevailed last year and the House was wrested from them before they could do irreparable and unstoppable damage.
Wake up, America!
Gov't hands out crumbs after stuffing their pockets, really hard work!
All gov' employees get minimum wage. Cpongressman and Senators get no life pension plan after one term. None period.
The Final Battle is around the corner.
Creatures go safe under the covering of Aslan's sacrifice.
Yes, there is grand poverty in the United States at this time. One knows it with family who are in need; no work, and neighborhoods that look like Ghost Towns--it's happening right here. Believe it.
3 years and NO improvement; getting worse. Who's going to call out that this is the Great Depression of the 1930's--no jobs, no housing, no credit, no money, and a stinking Economy---
The Food Banks are running out of food--it is being doled out---go down there and find out.
No Hope. No Change---is this worse than 2008?
If there is no Change of President in 2012--we'll never know if this Elephant can be fixed.
What a mess. I feel sorry for the kids; denied activities, and having some real fun outside of the house..
Here we go again.
Over 2,100 posts and the majority of them want MORE government help. I guess those illiteracy rates we keep hearing about are true. Well, it's not surprising when we have created the entitlement mentality in nearly half of the populace. Of course our government loves the ignorance of the masses, it's just easier to manipulate them. When most American's read at an 8th grade level, the comprehension level must be adolescent. When most America's, even here on the prolific Newsvine Scholar thread, can't use -- there, they're or their -- correctly in a sentence the expression of need is obvious. When most American's can't calculate 20% of 440 in their head, the concept of economics must be overwhelming.
But I digress.
Can someone please tell me how raising the upper tax bracket will somehow help our economic and social problems? Historically, changing the upper income tax rates has done nothing to increase revenues. Even in the 50's, 60's and 70's -- when upper tax rates were never lower than 72% -- tax receipts generated revenues of about 18% of GDP. Even breaking the revenue rate down to income taxes, the range has been an almost consistent 8% +/- since the 1950's.
However, there have been significant swings associated with economic booms (dot-coms, housing, etc) and busts (recessions). From this, it only goes to reason that we can play with the marginal tax rates all we want, it won't matter. Obviously the only true engine of economic growth is an increasing GDP. Most of the reason we don't see significant increases in revenue with increasing tax rates is obvious. We have a tax code that is 72,000+ pages long. For all you "Loophole-a-holics" have fun trying to eliminate them in this morass of bureaucracy. In the past 2 years the IRS received over 220 million inquiries about tax filings, they couldn't answer more than 25% of them.
So, what's the solution?
First of all, we need a total reform of our criminal progressive tax system. Either with a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax. The massive confusion that our current tax system creates is never going to be corrected. Our tax code changes every single day, this can no longer continue.
There have been about 4,428 tax code changes in the last 10 years. There were approximately 580 changes in 2010 alone. Between 1986 and 2005 Congress passed over 14,400 amendments to the tax code, this equates to almost 3 changes every day for 19 straight years.
It is estimated that taxpayers pay $431.1 Billion annually, or 30% of total income taxes collected, just to comply and administer the tax code. A reduction in tax code complexity would help reduce the National Debt by $1.4 trillion over a decade. Over 6.1 billion hours are spent by individuals and businesses complying and completing their taxes.
Taxation should never be a system of rewards and punishments. Its purpose should be to simply fund the needs of our government mandated by the Constitution. Government has not, and will not, control its size. No government agency, such as the IRS, should strike such fear into We the People. Our government works for us, not the other way around.
Secondly, we need to resurrect our once envied economic engine, domestic exportable manufacturing. In the 1960's exportable manufacturing was responsible for over 50% of our GDP, today it is 9%. The once strongest economy has devolved into a consumption/service sector economy. Consumption can only occur if consumers have money to buy things. In order to buy things people need to have a job, a good long term job. Service sector jobs will never recreate the wealth, prosperity and standard of living we enjoyed 50 years ago. Today even our service jobs are being off-shored. Where will our new economy come from? Government? Our economy is the government. Without growth, We the People suffer much more than our government. Despite economic conditions, which we have little control over, we are required to pay taxes. Government STILL gets its 18+/-% of GDP, we don't!
As I mentioned at the top of my post, contrary to popular opinion or what our "leaders" tell us, most Americans are NOT college material. Many never will be. When there were simple factory jobs a marginal student could graduate from high school and get a reasonable job in a factory somewhere. That benefit no longer exists. As we see today's graduates from college, with all their degrees are unable to find jobs, it's because we no longer have a diversity of economic sectors to choose from.
Our immediate goals need to be multifactorial to bring jobs back to our soil.
Trade reform must be enacted immediately. NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO and others must be eliminated. We don't need FREE trade, we need FAIR TRADE!
Taxes. Both personal, as I mentioned above, and especially corporate taxes must be reformed. We have the highest corporate tax rate of major economic nations. Our current 39.6% (including state and local) corporate tax rate must be changed. The OECD average is 18.6%. Contrary to the Progressive delusion, corporations have no moral responsibility to stay here and pay more taxes to our incompetent criminal government. Neither do We the People.
Regulations need to be immediately reformed and most of them eliminated. The SBA recently reported that regulation costs American business $1.75 TRILLION per year, and cost small businesses, those with fewer than 20 workers, $10,585 per employee, or 36% more than paid by large businesses, those with 500 or more. 89% of all businesses in the U.S. employ less than 20 employees. Large businesses account for only 0.3% of all businesses. Guess where the majority of the taxes on the "RICH" and regulatory costs are going to come from? The Code of Federal Regulations in the 2007 edition totaled 145,816 pages, 8,000 pages longer than in 2000. Appropriations for federal regulatory agencies increased during the Bush years from $27 billion in FY 2001 to $44.9 billion in FY 2007-a 44 percent increase in inflation-adjusted dollars. Bush added over $60 BILLION Dollars of regulatory costs to business in his 8 years. Obama has already added an additional $38 BILLION with another $14 BILLION in the pipeline. Do any of you actually believe we can recreate a strong economy with all these regulatory costs? Some communities even have regulations restricting children having a "Lemonade Stand", or selling Girl Scout Cookies, in front of their house! Common sense seems to have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Unions MUST become industry supportive rather than destructive. No amount of historical back slapping can justify the destruction unions have created in our economy. Yes, over 100 years ago the unions were helpful in creating job safety rules, today laws have been created to prevent many of these hazards. No significant job safety issue has been created in over 25 years. Other than the "Family Leave Act", no work related benefit has been created in the same time frame. In April of this year there was a Bloomberg article called "Runaway CEO Pay Could Support 102,000 U.S. Jobs". Socialist Richard Trumka of the AFL-CIO stated that:
"In 2010, S&P 500 Index company CEO's received, on average, $11.4 million in total compensation. Based on 299 companies most recent pay data for 2010, their combined total CEO's pay of $3.4 BILLION could support over 102,000 median workers jobs"
This equates to jobs paying about $16 an hour, or a little over $33,000 per year. According to the 2010 BLS report there were 14.7 million union workers in America in 2010. Using a conservative $50 in union dues per month this gives the unions $735 MILLION collected in dues per month, or $8.8 BILLION per year. Using the AFL-CIO's own median wage numbers this would create over 265,000 jobs per year. Even if you only use HALF these numbers, more jobs could be created from union dues than from the CEO's pay.
Finally, we need an economic sector that can begin to create jobs instantly. We are standing on that sector right now.
ENERGY!
Regardless of the environmentalist's glee for the "Green Initiative", we and the world need energy RIGHT NOW, not in 10 or 20 years. Green technology is decades from being efficient and affordable enough for the energy needs of our nation. We have the largest energy reserves in the world. We MUST be exploiting this to generate increased GDP and subsequently increased tax revenues. The Keystone XL pipeline is an immediate job and revenue producer. Our tremendous assets in coal, natural gas, shale-gas, oil, shale-oil and nuclear energy can be used right now to generate massive revenues to restore our economy and eliminate our massive Debt.
We need to be thinking of today and tomorrow rather than continue to blame and point fingers at what happened in the past.
Our, our children's, and our nation's future depends on it
Well, it looks like the Koch Bros and their puppet Republicans have had their way for too long. Bush certainly didn't do anything except start wars costing all of us and spending our economy into the ditch. He didn't have the guts to end the misery before he left office. He just left a giant pile of steaming crap for Obama to deal with.
How could any sane person want to put the Republicans back in office when they tell the American people to their faces they are for the top 2% wealthy in this country and are making moves daily to crush the middle class and make it hard for people to vote? How could we even consider for one moment putting these people back into office?
a guarantee that you have a ticket for the chicken race doesn't mean you'll be nibbling on drumsticks for dinner. we have a inalienable right to be able to persue happiness, but we are not guaranteed happiness.
JEM: You are talking out of your A$$$$....please don't blame the "boomers" for all the ills of this administration. You have NO right to "bundle" us all up into one group because we don't function that way. We didn't cause the problems of today....the last 20 years of administration caused the problems of today! Trying to blame it on one generation of people is ridiculous! You need to get a life....you're probably a young individual with the current "me" generation thoughts! We "boomers," as you call us, were mostly born to parents who went through the last recession.....we learned from them to save our money and work hard. It's the younger generation (and I'm not "bundling" them all in one group as you did) who have been the ones who have wanted it ALL and wanted it NOW.
I own a small business, and I find that the younger generation wants all the benefits, but they don't want to do the work.....the older generation work hard and are responsible individuals. So, let's now be blaming the so-called "boomers" for your lack of consideration, etc. Look to yourself and your ilk!!
nw...
Requiring a photo-ID is making "it hard for people to vote" ???
We have seen people in foreign countries walk for days and even risk life and limb to cast their votes...and in the US, asking for a stinking identification card is oppressive ??? Man, I guess we have truly grown soft.
What a pity.
alsophia theopilos
I have been poor, I have been successful. No matter how poor I get before we get this Socialist out of Washington, I will never be a leftist. I was born with a brain and the ability to think for myself. Anyone who is not totally blind can see where that led Greece and France.
Tony,
The real meaning is that it would make it harder for Chicago style dead to vote again and again.
Shaking...
That's part of it.
The nation's Attorney General has a lot of sack to stand inside a building we taxpayers pay for and tell us all that asking for identification at a polling place puts a "burden" (his word) on the backs of the poor.
What a putz.
Ryan's plan/Repubs want to privitize medicare so they can make us hand over our money to the thugs on Wall Street. The Repubs are so easy to read. Let the old folks and the rest of us prop up Wall Street again so they can steal our money and keep the cycle of their F#ck the little guy program going.
It's all about the rich.
@SainCA
Hate to break it to you but you are nuts. Dems were in the house last week trying to get middle class payroll taxes cut and extend the current unemployment benefits. What did the teabags do? Bundled the bill with a bill that forces your president to decided yay or nay on whether they can build an oil pipeline within 60 days (not nearly enough time to fully asses the enviromental impact), and increase in medicare copays on the "rich" that they claim the president caled for (which he did but the teabags seem to think that 40K retirement earning is rich), a bill that allows states to drug test anyone who is receiving unemployment, and a few more shady things. Pass it all or leave it on the table.
Please people do your reseach before you vote. If you do not know how these people are actually conducting themselves, then do not vote please. And for all you religious right voters out here, stop falling for the right because they pretend to be for your beliefs. They are the most immoral of the crowd in this house at least. CSPAN. Thats all I can say.
Obama we TRUSTED, now were BUSTED
Something you will never hear in the media, but I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
The top 5 revenue years for the Federal Gov't came in the last 6 years.
Even adjusted for inflation, they took in more money than even the FDR years in WW2 with very high revenue.
Even with the Bush tax cuts: record revenue.
So the Gov't is making more than ever, but it's deficit is bigger than ever.
And with entitlements being 2/3 of their spending, handouts have never been bigger.
But it doesn't decrease poverty, it incentivizes it.
Less people are willing to work because they can do better with Gov't benefits. It's a fact that you come out better not working and taking the handouts than anything up to nearly $9 per hour @ 40 hrs/wk with no benefits.
Think about it. You can get housing, food, medical, even spending money (welfare). You get free education for your kids. You can get a free cellphone with 200 free minutes a month.
And you don't have work expenses or payroll taxes.
Welcome to the nightmare.
Isn't it time we wake up and face the reality that our country cannot survive as we know it by paying people not to work?
There are 12-15 million illegals employed here - doing work that we won't do because our Gov't has made it far better not to do those jobs.
I don't want poor people to starve, but our "poor" are obese.
A little honest hard work by those now living on Gov't handouts would solve so many problems. I know we are talking about low paying, difficult jobs - but the illegals doing them are also my fellow humans. If they can do the jobs, the "poor" Americans can.
I'll finish with a story from California. A very nice farmer told a local food bank that the poor could keep all they could pick. The food bank arranged for buses to pick up the poor, take them to the farm, and bring them and their produce back.
Guess how many "poor" people went to pick free food:
ZERO.
The volunteers at the food bank had to pick the food and then HAND it to them.
That is the situtation our Gov't has created with all it's handouts.
The poor are so well off here, and they have become so lazy, that they won't even pick free food for themselves.
Since the major health problem in the "Poor" is Obesity and Diabites brought on by being Obese, I just don't understand how the Government is defining "Poor" anymore, when they have more than they need to eat! Statistics also indicate that they have 2 TVs, 1 car, at least 1 cell phone, a microwave oven, etc., so you can see my delema in sympathizing with the idea that I (who do not qualify under the Government rules as being "Poor".), am accused of not providing enough for them that do, after I pay my Taxes, give to my Church and my other charities!
BTW, so many here are talking about the war between the classes of people here in the States. I see no war of the "Haves" against the "Have Nots". What I do see is an ever increasing, mandated through force, confiscation from the "Haves" to buy votes from the "Have Nots"! I agree with Ryan from Texas. There are already 49% paying the Taxes and 51% who pay no Fed Taxes, but get an awful lot of benefits for their Votes!
Headshaker,
I think it was the wheeling and dealing with too much loaned money that got Greece into trouble. Pretty much the same thing as what got us into trouble. You probably wouldn't be a good "leftist" anyway.
That's BS,
Tying that pipeline bill to the tax cuts is about like robbing a 7 eleven. But then I guess that's the way congress works.
Can you say ILLEGAL ALIEN?
Kick 'em all out and you see the unemployment levels go down. I guarantee it.
No one could foresee where we are going , we've never been there before. 7 billion people facing a glaciation period for this planet. :) we can work together , or most can perish , its all in the choices.
This economic system was hatched centuries ago and the balance of needs has changed. We must identify the needs of humans and arrange a system that makes it possible for most to achieve these needs within the confines of a normal intellect and a normal workload.
This is not democrat or republican. this is common sense which eludes both parties.
Ryan in Texas I am part of the working poor and guess what I have never asked the gov't for a damn thing.This included the yr and a half that I was unemployed did I ask for unemployment nope not at all. I am so sick of people like you saying all poor people and just lazy good for nothings that just want to leech of the gov't. I live in a small rural farming community where most everyone is poor and we take care of each other. Something I guessing you would rather die than to help your fellow man in need. Guess what else I grow my own food yr round and work in the fields spring through fall. So before you get up on your omnipotent horse to tell the poor what horrible people they are come live my life for a while.
So are you at a McDonalds using the Wifi or something? because I don't think you are poor, maybe just a mindset? That's fine, stay where you are at, I'll go out and get it.
I like this thread!
For all of those that complain about Capitalism, I think we had better keep it. Your other choices are Communism, Socialism, Despotism, etc. Just look at the differences between East and West Germany or North and South Korea just in case you need a reminder as to the alternatives.
Politicians have exactly two job goals, to get elected and to get re-elected. They like the poor, they want people on the public Dole because they want their votes! Politicians are always promising the people something for nothing. And since "anything worth having is worth paying for" the opposite must also be true. If you didn't pay any for it it's not worth having.
Obamacare, people have a RIGHT to free health care, what a joke. RoadhouseBlues thanks for quoting Jefferson "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." And I will add another quote "And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God." JFK, 1961
FreedomRingsLoud - I saved your posts just so I can read them again later, the CEO pay vs. union dues comment is classic, WELL SAID!
People are poor because there are no jobs, BS. I saw a bumper sticker the other day "Support Local Unions" and there was also an American Flag to go with it right there on the back end of a Honda. There are plenty of jobs, but too many people are not supporting the creators of those jobs. The government cannot create jobs, they have no product to sell. If you are not driving an American car then don't complain about the state of American economy. "I have come to a resolution myself as I hope every good citizen will, never again to purchase any article of foreign manufacture which can be had of American make, be the difference of price what it may." --Thomas Jefferson to B. S. Barton, 1815
No Child Left Behind, another government joke, the only outcome here is that ALL children are going to be left behind. In two generations the projection for jobs in this country will be half Management and half Technical Professional. This projected trend is also true for the EU and Japan. If you are not directing your children's education along this trend then you are setting them up for global unemployment.
Neko Samurai - you are not part of the working poor, you are just currently under-employed. I wish there were more people with your backbone out there. Anyone looking for a guy to give 110% to the job please find Neko.
Ryan, judging by the amt of news forums on which I've seen you copy & paste this same stuff over & over, I'm beginning to think there may be a hint of self-loathing happening. No one could possibly get around that much if they were gainfully employed.
You keep saying that, yet you never show the figures to support the statement.
The fact is, ppl who work 40 hrs/wk @ $9/hr (which is not a living wage) gross almost $19K/yr. All means-tested programs use gross, not net, income figures. About the only thing a wage-earner who grosses *that much* might find himself eligible for would be a very sm HUD subsidy (eligibility threshold is currently around $22K & preference is given to those whose income is below poverty level b4 even considering above poverty level earners), after about 5 yrs on a wait list. I guarantee you someone earning $19K is not getting *welfare*.
Do you even know how much *welfare* is, Ryan? It's a lot less in TX than it is in NY, & in NY it's less than $4K cash & just over $2K SNAP, & that's at maximum benefit for 1 person. It is often much less than that.
It's not free. Please look up the definition of *subsidized*. HUD determines what a person's income will allow them to pay in rent & still be able to meet the rest of their bills, & then they *supplement*, w/ a check directly sent to the landlord, the tenant's portion of the rent.
And you also really don't want to live in a subsidized apt. They're sm, cramped, substandard dumps where the LL does the minimum to keep his greedy behind qualified to continue banking fat HUD checks, not luxury homes.
The avg family of 4 gets a SNAP benefit of around $143/mo. Can you feed 4 ppl on that amt?
No, b/c it's called SNAP for a reason. It's not meant to be an entire mo's grocery budget, but a supplement for it.
Good luck finding a dr who'll take Medicaid. Why would they, when they only get reimbursed 4x/yr & at 25% of what *real health ins* will pay? And MAs not free, either. It does have co-pays.
There is no *welfare*. Pay attn. It's *workfare*. So it's not *spending money*; it's money ppl receive in exchange for working for DSS while they're also looking for a *real* job.
The avg amt of time a family spends on cash assistance is 12 mos. Compare that to unemployment's 99 wks.
So do you. What's your pt? That everyone gets *welfare* if you consider education to be that?
No, you can't. I've explained this & linked this more than once. Kindly cease disseminating misinformation & do your own research, b/c I'm not posting links for you to continue to ignore.
Yes, you do, b/c you have to work, unless you're of retirement age or disabled, in order to receive assistance.
I'd love to get pd not to work. Where do I sign up?
Well, so would you be if all you could afford was cheap, filling, fattening foods.
Again, pay attn. Look up *workfare*.
Your story is an *urban legend*.
Made up by someone of your mindset who cannot conceive that the poor are anything but lazy fat scam artists out to get something you can't have.
B/c it never occurs to you that most of the poor are elderly, disabled, & children.
Now, if it makes you feel better to dismiss the fact that your magic bus came up empty b/c on its route there were no 90 yo widows, legless veterans, or preschoolers & infants....in addition to school-age kids, young adults attending college, parents who already work 1-2-3 jobs & don't have the time to go pick lettuce....knock yourself out.
Yeah, yesterday it was "I can't seem to live on 50K a year, what am I to do.......". Tomorrow it will be something else and the republicans will continue to blame O and the poor.
Oldwolf--The republicans are not blaming Obama for the economy,AND certainly no the poor, they are holding Obama accountable for the non action and pushing the deficit to 15 trillion. Debt that hurts the poor. If you lived in Md, your taxes would increase significantly every year on everything from state and local taxes. These dems tax everything, and deem it just. And what happens after they raid funds that are self sufficient, That s right they run of of money again and raise more taxes. Its the same withe the democratic party everywhere, raise taxes get more from people and come up short again and again... Its go to stop.
Exactly Old wolf. E.R. you are sadly mistaken. The entire GOP & Tea Nuts ARE constantly blaming our president for the FAILED mistakes of the Bush administration. I have read in this last year more HATEFUL articles calling Teachers parasites, Life guards parasites, ALL State & Federal workers parasites, all Unions Parasites. This is a focused effort by the hateful GOP & Tea Nuts to systematically eliminate the working class/middle class.
YOU and the rest of your Hateful GOp/TP followers are LIARS!
G
@ER
Tell us, how can the President do ANYTHING when one party spends all of it's time trying to make him a one term President and blocking each and everything he tries to get passed all while offering NOTHING to help the situation.
I'll tell you and everybody else, you keep screaming that the President is promoting "Class Warfare". I'll tell you what is "Class Warfare", trying to cut taxes for the so call "Job Creators" while doing nothing to help the middle class. That's class warfare.
ER said
They need to look in the mirror at the non action, they set out to destroy Obama and even said it in broad daylight to the Nation.
McConnell,
Your child goes into the Hospital with a Heart disease and the Doctor says, My Goal is to make this child a one day visitor, How comfortable would that make you feel?
Many of our issues are not one entities fault! I agree that our President has done a poor job but so have the last few...the rest of our nations leaders do nothing but argue amongst themselves and are paid handsomely to accomplish little, big companies, banks, lenders and corporations do nothing but look out for their own. May of our smaller businesses hire illegals so they can profit more. The average working American is kicked to the gutter.
This is a very sad commentary on our great nation. Our leaders in Washington had better get their heads out of the sand and do something to stop this drowning of Americans. You can hardly blame a President who has made an effort to bring us out of poverty and give Americans a health care program they could rely on, when those who would benefit from his failure are doing everything possible to prevent any positive action from happening on his watch. All this so the GOP can seek and get re elected this upcoming term. It's criminal, and none of them deserve to hold office. If you are looking to blame a party, blame the GOP for their reckless abandonment of good leadership!
As for these poor kids who get themselves pregnant and then have no place to turn, whose fault is that? My granddaughter is in the same boat.....a beautiful baby girl, a boyfriend that doesn't have a job, and she is working as a waitress to try and make ends meet. They aren't getting along so she wants to move out, but where is she going to go except back home, and she doesn't want that either. Of course, I am not going to let her starve, but why don't these kids listen when you tell them they need to stay in school and gain their financial independence. What was she thinking when she allowed herself to get pregnant? Now she has no independence whatsoever because she has a child that she must be responsible for. At least she's a good mother, as is the dad, but they have a poor prognosis for a good life in the future. There are thousands of stories like this out there. I don't have an answer, and apparently, neither does Washington!
All Americans are just too damn greedy. We have MUCH lower taxes than most of the world and still act like the world will end if they go up .01%. I myself do not mind paying taxes because I like paved roads, bridges, police, fire fighters, you know... the things that make us a 1st world country.
AirThief, the problem is that the less people that are employed, the less taxes. The less money in the economy the less employment. In the end, it ends up being less money to fix the things you have described. There are people that make so little that .01% is the difference between having heat at the end of the month and not having heat. That is the reality.
Although the problem is not the result of one entity, no one can ignore the lack of cooperation from the Republican Party. It is tiresome and an insult to the American's intelligence. Collaboration is the only solution. We need to send a clear message with our votes for congress----cooperate or be replaced!
Exactly Kaara, What is the answer. I don't care one bit whose fault it is, (I do, because I don't want to repeat the same mistakes, but How are we going to know the truth as to whose fault it was?) I mean, for the last 3 years of Clinton's administration he warned Congress that Saddam was making WMD's, So the Bush lied to us about WMD's talking point is bogus. YouTube it if you don't believe me. The financial mess, has been blamed on the war's (Justified, but majority of Americans including Congress was all for it at the time.) Bush's Rx program (again justified, a total failure.) It also has been blamed on the Housing bubble caused by Democrats (Justified, Republicans Including Bush & Ron Paul warned Congress of this for years, again look it up on youtube and see the words fly out of thier mouthes for yourself if you don't want to believe an article on it.) Point is this both parties have thier hands in this as far as fault goes. So trying to find the one person to blame is pointless and impossible.
I look at our current Congress like this. You have 2 parents one is always saying yes to the child because they want them to love them, so they never say no, buying them whatever useless item they scream and whine about. Creating a spoiled, entitled, nothings my fault idiot. This is the example of the Democratic party. The other parent now has to compinsate for this and say no to everything, it's not in the budget to get that useless toy, (But the dad buys himself a new fishing pole), the child sees other kid's getting that toy and doesn't understand why he's not getting it. Now we have a resentful, pissed off, petty idiot. This is the Republican party. Now who's compensating for whom could be interchangable.
My point is, what is the solution? Do we give more money to irresponsable people (Meaning Congress?) I mean in my opinion who would want their taxes raised so Congress can have more money to mismanage? Regardless of rich or poor, why would give your money to a bad investor, especially if they have a proven lenghty track record of stupidity? Both parties are guilty of this, very few times have they gotten it right. But I am not a complete heartless a-hole, and don't have the mindset to let people starve. I do agree that there is a line that has to be drawn, but the current Republican party has drawn a line that is too heartless and the Democrats line holds nobody accountable and places all blame on people who have more money than you do.. While I do agree personal responsabilty has got to make a resurgance in this country. But at what cost? I was raised to believe that if you wanted something you have to work for it because nobody is going to give it to you. Well, they are now, because we have families on Welfare who will be on it for generations. When I was growing up things were starting to change, you started seeing more and more stupid people getting pregnant and skipping the rest of their education. This is not behaviour that should be rewarded by any means, but should you say screw the child because the parents screwed up?
Another bad example of Congress is our current climate debacle. The only answer for climate change is eugenics, but Democrats don't wants to hear that, so they make up all kinds of other laws essential to duct tape and shoddy patch work,it also lines their pockets with a world of new taxes that can be implimented. Republicans deny there is a problem so they don't lose any favor with big business. So the real issue never gets solved.
As for income disparity that is your own darn fault, not Congress, or a particular party. We now live an age where we can research where the products we buy come from, plus earnings of a particular business. There is no reason we can't buy american other than you want to save some money, well that is what the business did as well, saved some money by moving it's operation to China. You can't have it both ways, you can't keep jobs here and then only buy the cheapest products. I think Congress should make manditory for Companies to post what they pay thier workers, so we can see the Robber Barons who cheat their employees. Then as consumers we could take our business elsewhere and the free market works again. Plus then We wouldn't need government regulation, we could police ourselves, sure people will try to screw you out of money, but instead of spending all kinds of money and restricting our freedoms by letting Government handle the situation we could educate ourselves, and not depend on someone else to make a decision for us
Just a few thoughts for pondering.
Seriously? You need to become better informed because yes... yes they are. Its his recession remember? He caused all of this with his socialist agenda.
I read the news today. I still enjoy a little printers ink with my coffee, and toast with marmalade. I then walked into my den and cranked this machine up. For three years I have been reading the posts made on "The Vine." There is a dynamic going on there, the tendrils growing and spreading that are a dream for any American ethnologist or sociologist.
After three years, I wish you children would please stop the constant bickering. I wish the finger pointing and the blame-game would stop. I wish this duality, polarization would end. It is impossible to think a dichotomy.
Who said this; "divide and conquer?" We the people, who are citizens of our separate states and of this Republic; the United States of America, are more divided than I have ever seen in my life. The division, if one reads the many posts on "The Vine," are formatted in contempt, lack of respect, and hatred. Why is this? As with the death of our great "middle-class," as stated in the body of this article, it seems to have been systematically done.
We the people are growing more and more divided. Do we as a nation of people all have a different mission, a different idea of what we think our country and our people should be? I do not believe so. If our dreams, goals, and aspirations have indeed changed they have changed in degree only.
Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, Left or Right, Good or Evil, Yes or No; are all simple "either/or." They are some of the basic extreme extremes used by the media to guide both linear and lateral thought processes. WTF, ( I am learning a new language in case I decide I want to communicate with other people via "texting," very much as I once learned to sign to communicate with some other people). As with this article the "news," no matter which stations you listen to or view, is cherry-picked. In more recent decades it has grown, I feel, to be more of a diversion to the things that are of absolute importance to us. They toss C R A P out there, pay some "experts" to run their mouths on the topic, run a mess of commercials, collect their money and then on to the weather.
The header for this article is; " 1 in 2 Americans are now poor or low income" They have included a line and link to a "Study: 1 in 5 American children lives in poverty." The article mentions a "government Safety-Net," and suggests when that dries up..........you all read it, the only difference is the way some people reacted to it displayed in their "Vine" posts. The article goes a little further and quotes Robert Rector. Rector, it is written, is a "senior research fellow," which is different from an "adjunct scholar" at the "Heritage Foundation." The article takes it one more step to make it clear to us that the Heritage Foundation is "Conservative." You have all read what this fellow had to say about "flat screen" televisions. Personally, I do not care what this fellow thinks. However, I am very interested in what his foundation pays him for thinking and where the foundation gets it's money to pay him and all the other fellows as well as their plush offices, vacations, health insurance, retirement, etc.
Many of you will continue to duke-it-out via The Vine. In the end do you feel better? Do you sincerely feel that your posts and banter back and forth have made a positive impact towards our American dynamic towards "Good?" In my life, I have been fortunate to be able to travel the world. On one occasion, returning to the United States, I landed at Logan International. When I got outside I kissed the ground because I was so happy to be back in the U S of A. This was long ago and I had been traveling with a drop dead beautiful blond Danish woman. We had been kidnapped in Mashad, Iran. We were only able to escape; me with my life, and she from being sold into the sex slave business, ( in the 1950s a blond sold for $100,000: starting bid). John Wayne would have been proud of me and the way I was able to relieve the punk of his 38Special.
With all of this, the point I would really like to make is that in all of this B S let us never forget the things that are really important to us. We must always remember and work to help the children and the elderly in our country. Here are some numbers that I have recently read that they claimed came from the very same source as the numbers in this article. 1 in 4 girls have been sexually abused. 1 in 5 boys have been sexually abused. 1 in 4 little children go to bed hungry in America today. As much as 50% of our nation's elderly refuse any government support, ( the "Safety Net" mentioned in this article). They are on a fixed income and are finding it increasingly difficult to buy food, you all have seen the growing prices at your grocery store. They are finding it difficult to stay warm in their homes. The price of heating oil runs 50 cents more a gallon than gasoline. The same is so with L P gas; it is almost $4.00 a gallon. This is the America that I kissed the ground for; a bunch of people, with good hearts full of mercy and compassion helping one another with a to H E L L to the government.
As a post script; I have an ancient Tibetan Lama Robe. The Freer Gallery experts in Washington were unable to date it. I have it in a vault at a bank for safety. The Freer, Tibetan experts said that it was a Ceremonial robe, one that never should have left the temple, monastery in Lhasa. They suggested that because of the fine work woven into it with gold and silver thread that it was highly probable that it was used by a Dalai Lama or a Pachen Lama. I am a capitalist. I would like to sell this museum quality antique for one million US Dollars. All of the money will go to Focus Adolescent Services. They work to save the children of America. They refuse to be a non-profit. They refuse to registrar as a 501c because I am told they refuse to take any government money which they say is really tax-payers money. If you are interested let me know. If you only have 1 Dollar or 5 Dollars then send that directly to them: Focusas.com If we cannot directly help the children and the old folks at home we can support those who really do. There are other groups that can and do squeeze a Nickel. The shelves of food pantries and soup kitchens are running-on-empty. You can arrange with your local fuel provider to help an elderly widow.
Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas
Mrcool - I feel better when I learn something new and that the values taught to me in days past are still valid today. holiday greetings to you as well.
Kaara, The answer is the opposite of anything you'll hear from any corporate\political source. Increase minimum wage to something above the poverty line. People who don't already own everything, would kick our consumer economy into high gear
Bunch of Debbie downers on here. I came from a poor family, and I'm getting it and all my friends have good jobs too. The fact is that I did knock up a chick when I did not have the funds or a job. I am a grad student, and I get paid about 21,000 a year, so I know I can't afford some things. And I know that Credit Cards are not gift cards. If you want 'Murica to get better, it is not just the president or the gov, it is the mindset of the people. Remember what JFK said? Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Stop bitching about the government and change the way you spend. If everybody did this, wow what an improvement. I mean I see a welfare card at the grocery store get pulled out and all I see on the kids feet are 100 dollar Jordans.
We are spoiled brats here too, ha ha we are so poor. Go to almost anywhere in Africa and then come at me bro. Oh and last comment, I did NOT knock up anyone.
google...
Amazing how Kennedy's historic statement got flip-flopped on the 50 year plan, into: "...Ask what your country can do for you."
Critical Thinker (Maine), you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
I recieve an SS check of $556.00 per month. I live with-in my means. I don't drink or use drugs, so I'm able to make it.
I have all I need and some of what I want. If I want more I go out and make the money for it. I owe NO ONE.
We havn't had a raise since obama came into office. He said the cost of living has not gone up. In 2012, (an election year), he says he is going to give us one. But, my vote is NOT for sale.
So, since you choose to be an under-acheiver....we all should be? No wonder the country's in such a mess!
@sicken -- you must be a young punk who hasn't faced adversity. You should be ashamed calling any one an under achiever who is happy with their life and lives within their means. Remember when you get more, the socialists in control will ask for more.
You'll learn the meaning of this saying one day: "If you have your health, you have everything." You need to apologize.
Huh? Under-achiever????? LOL
OK...sorry you're an under acheiver, Loco Weed. Better? :)
Sicken Tired....what a offensive comment. I am by no means a underachiever.....I get less than $550.00 a month. I had a career as a insurance agent..........a decent job, but had to take early retirement. I am 67 and work full time..........not what I expected.
Welcome to the USA ............a fast rising third world country.......this has been coming for a LONG time but no one was paying attention.
Funny how some people determine success or happiness. Ol' Tumbleweedy probably has a richer and more meaningful life that any of our wallstreet tycoons. Myself, I could be considered poor in many eyes, but actually I'm one of the wealthiest men alive. This whole universe that is so beautiful and exciting belongs to my daddy.
I must agree with Ben, sicken...an apology would certainly be appropriate here!
Arizona Tumbleweed...(#4)....Good for you !!!....And your Check in January will be $576 (a 3.6% COLA)....Not much more, but maybe enough to get a few more "wants"...." I have all I need and some of what I want."....You're in a place many are jealous of....and it's not about the money...it is a state of mind....Happy right where you are....can't buy that.
P.S....Look at this website.....By a couple that worked at Social Security....It is quite informative and helpful
http://socialsecuritypotluckdotcom.wordpress.com/
Thank you Mike. And other supporters.
I'm with you, Tumbleweed! We are a family of four and according to this article, we would be considered to be living in poverty though my husband has worked the same full time job for almost 17 years. We do live in a low income neighborhood because we chose to buy a house within our means. Our mortgage payment is our only debt. We drive an old car, but it works. We pay our bills and do our grocery shopping very carefully. We don't have any assistance, not even food stamps. We also don't have fancy wheels on our car (like many of our low income neighbors), big screen t.v's, i-pads, gaming systems, or even fancy cell phones. We do own trac phones and we only put minutes on it if we have the money to do so. We survived without cell phones for most of our lives so it's not too much of a hardship if we have to go a little while without minutes on our phone. Our kids don't participate in expensive activities. Rather, we do a lot together that costs nothing or is very low cost and we have so much fun. Occasionally we even have enough money to go to a movie we really want to see or something else like that. But we certainly don't feel poor. We are making it, but more than that, we are thriving because we live wisely and value our family over many other things. We have two wonderful, happy teenagers who love to spend time with their parents. Does it get any richer than that? It is possible to live within your means and live a full life.
That said, I have much compassion for those who were used to a higher standard of living but are now out of work or have faced other financial crisis. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. Those are the people who really do need some help. But there are too many people (many of my neighbors for example) who are living irresponsibly and should not be awarded by the government for doing so.
Well SICKEN TIRED since you have chosen to make these types of remarks I must ask you based on the pic you posted with your remark, you a pimp? LOL
Ok, I apologize to Loco Weed for being a bottom feeder-better?? :)
Read his profile & posts folks, he's a right-wing shill at best, a hypocrite who talks out both sides of his mouths, bragging about collecting his SS check, while calling everyone else on assistance a "hand-outer". Read between the lines, what he's saying is that we as Americans are getting a royal screwing by the politicians and the wealthy, and that we should just sit back, watch some sports and American Idol, and be happy. Sorry, I don't condone this type of under-acheiving attitude.
I empathsize with ANYONE who is going through tough times. I don't have a lot of compassion for trolls. :)
Wagewatcher- Sure, if that's what you want to believe. And Loco Weed is Jack Elam.
Read the facts about who pays the lions share of taxes - go to:
Summary of Federal Income Tax Data, 2009
Number of Returns with Positive AGI
AGI ($ millions)
Income Taxes Paid ($ millions)
Group's Share of Total AGI
Group's Share of Income Taxes
Income Split Point
Average Tax Rate
All Taxpayers
137,982,203
$7,825,389
$865,863
100.0%
100.0%
-
11.06%
Top 1%
1,379,822
$1,324,572
$318,043
16.9%
36.7%
$343,927.00
24.01%
1-5%
5,519,288
$1,157,918
$189,864
14.8%
22.0%
16.40%
Top 5%
6,899,110
$2,482,490
$507,907
31.7%
58.7%
$154,643.00
20.46%
5-10%
6,899,110
$897,241
$102,249
11.5%
11.8%
11.40%
Top 10%
13,798,220
$3,379,731
$610,156
43.2%
70.5%
$112,124.00
18.05%
10-25%
20,697,331
$1,770,140
$145,747
22.6%
17.0%
8.23%
Top 25%
34,495,551
$5,149,871
$755,903
65.8%
87.3%
$ 66,193.00
14.68%
25-50%
34,495,551
$1,620,303
$90,449
20.7%
11.0%
5.58%
Top 50%
68,991,102
$6,770,174
$846,352
86.5%
97.7%
> $32,396
12.50%
Bottom 50%
68,991,102
$1,055,215
$19,511
13.5%
2.3%
< $32,396
1.85%
I guss im right thier with yea Arizona. own my home im disabled dont ask for anay help from the government or state i live of my savings no halth care cant aford it but im happy dont have anay dept so i guss im an under achiver to lol and im good with that living my deam the best i can with what i have
grano12;
Not, "no one", just those too caught up in and/or not knowing (either not told or didn't believe) it was an "irrational exuberance" economy.
Where do you get your figures from MSNBC?? According to the GAO the top 1% pay a little over hald while the bottom 40% pay zero. Do not swallow leftest propaganda. They depend on weak minds as you see in this post, to sell their BS. greed is a word used only my moochers. The Democrats and the CRE are wholly resposable for the current crisis forcing banks to loan money to people who could not afford them. This was a racist act . The dems and their social engineering is the sole cause for the deline of the US and the coming takeover by China. Sorry libs , I know the truth rocks your world . It is easier to swallow lies that blame others
No, probably not bright enough to realize how bad the politicans & wealthy are screwing you. Aren't you worried about what the future holds for your kids, or grandchildren?
Agreed Sicken Tired... AZ tumbelweed seems to be advocating bending over and just taking it... "Oh yes, the GOP/TP have and continue to totally screw the whole country...but hey, I can be screwed and happy too, why don't you all just accept it too", all you gotta do is bend over". Personally, I refuse to accept that my country will be a corporate/police state, third world country. I will not take it, I will not allow it, I will rise up against it... I am an American citizen, and we are rebels, we don't just take it.
@ Jimmy Neutron,
Put your comments into spell check please. You will see why our country is near last in the developed world for education.
There is nothing wrong with being an underachiever, but please also understand that the underachievers have done nothing to make this country great, nothing. If this is how they want to live ok, let's just pray people like Arizona are the vast minority.
Just because AZ hasn’t invented the internet, put an individual in space or discovered the “God” particle, doesn’t mean AZ hasn’t contributed to society. Now maybe if AZ is a member of organized crime, an unsavory politician, Wall Street Options trader or Bank CEO of an international Bank etc., you might be able to say that.
Maybe AZ understands that all things live, and all things die. And AZ just as soon enjoy the brief consciousness we call life without all the irrelevant frustrations we’ve create because of others insecurities.
Wow, you guys sure took the bait. Instead of confronting the issues, you attack someone else for their point of view. Try facing the issues, and leave the individuals to their own lives and survival.
I get to retire in 1,146 days. Yes, I'm counting them. I'll be well into my 60s. I've worked my whole life, and I have a little put back to survive on. I'm not asking for anything more than what I earned. I plan to have a happy and quiet retirement. If no one else likes it, too bad.
I've given all I can, and it's up to the next generation to step up to the plate. My fear is that the next generation is so wrapped up in itself, that not only will it not step up to the plate, it will sell the plate. It will kill the geese that lay the golden eggs. And it will fail to learn the meaning of "for the good of all." So many of my generation and the next have already taken that route (of failure); and it is a disgusting example.
For those who find it necessary to label people in a negative fashion: underachiever, for example; you really need to grow up and quit calling names. You have no idea who you are demeaning, nor have you walked a mile in their moccasins. For those expressing that negative point of view, I recommend that you look up a few words: pompous, bombastic, pretentious.
The facts of the matter and the article is that the middle class is shrinking, and with it go the foundations of the American dream: Self sufficiency, a stable homelife, a home(!), education, employment, equality, and on and on. We, who have worked for our entire lives, have earned our place and time of rest--and our part of the dream. For the next generation, the opportunity to improve the situation is at hand. Blaming and attacking your neighbors and peers doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it worse. If it's your goal to destroy, instead of build and grow, keep tearing down those who have already given their service and earned their place. Your inheritance will be the wind.
My nickname says it all tumble weed. Social Security was just raised and I have personally heard the president say in several speeches that the cost of living is increasing. Not to mention that the president doesnt get to deceide that..its in the report that I believe its the OMB or one of the welfare departments publishes every year. Nothing you said has any value or truthfulness.
As far as you $550 dollars goes...cognrats. I don't know that state you're in but even the property tax on on a small house here will cost you most of that amount. Some people spend $550 dollars just in gas to get back and forth to their long distance job that they took after their current business closed. They would move (which they should not have to) except they can't afford it because of the gas. I have to say that living anywhere on that amount is pretty impressive...but its not how I want to spend my retirement. Broke and unable to see what the world has to offer.
bs: I'm on 180 acres in the desert. I have well water, electricity, phone, sat TV, and inter-net.
I can see the stars at night and can hear the coyotes walking. Lots of animals cross my place day and night. I can have a large bon-fire anytime I want. My neighbor is only two miles away if I need help. My pond is 10 yards wide and a quarter mile long. Traffic is bad though. Sometimes I get as many as five cars go by in a day. Most of them are border patrol.
It doesn't cost much to live out here. And if I want a little more, I just take a load of scrap 120 miles to the recycler. Most trips bring in about $1400.00. After I pay my help and gas, tires etc, I clear about 7%. Then I buy ME something.
PS: I'll let you guess what state I'm in.
Well congratulations to you and your 180 acres...how did you acquire it? I suppose you also didn't buy the house, but perhaps inherited? (I'm just guessing about the way you came about your land, but it's easy to say things from your little perch and not take into consideration other individuals' circumstances). For example, I wish I could have the luxury to have a large piece of land I owned and had a house on. Then I would not need too many things to make it habitable and keep myself content at a basic level. As things stand, I a naturalized citizen who does not really have a family to rely on here in the US, and my family in Europe was never rich either. So, to make a place under the sun here for me in America it will take a great deal more than perhaps it took you (again I don't know your life story, but ask that you consider more than your own little tiny small universe).
Hey, AZ, have you got any room next door? I could stand that kind of lifestyle. LOL.
Createdbyaliens: I've inherited NOTHING. Everything I have I gained by the sweat off my brow and the work under my own hand. Don't take it for granted that everyone had a good life handed to them. Most of us have worked for what we have. Anyone expecting more than gaining by their own work is apt to be disappointed.
Createdby, If I recall correctly, Tumbleweed rents his 180 acres, He also employs a couple of drivers at least part time. He's an actual job creator, not some Republican fantasy. Stop being jealous, he's not doing anything you couldn't do.
zapper, I agree, it sounds pretty good. I've threatened to come and hang out with him, when I can save up some vacation time, and some road money.
You're right SonofMolly: I lease this land. I live in an RV and have two other RVs for storage. Now are you ready for this. My lease payment is $75.00 per month. It was $50.00. I found out my landlord was paying $600.00 a year for taxes, so I raised my rent payment. It's called being fair.
Our economy is in the toilet, thanks to Lebman brothers and Goldman and their other investment bankers.
@David -- you hit the nail on the head. Look what Paul Krugman said:
http://baleta.blogspot.com/2011/04/democrats-wall-street.html
You left out their other partners in crime : The media ( spins stories & pays congress ) The defence / industrial gang ( captains & kings of industry ) last but not least CONGRESS . It is a toss up who the biggest thieves are.
bob
Ben 636050
I'm very concerned about your health BENNY because your brain seems to be overflowing with Fox News right wing propaganda. I strongly suggest you seek medical attention immediately before all that excrement starts pouring out of your ears.
It is both party's, If the trend down word continues the bankers and ceos will not be safe in America any longer...
Gheeze Ben, do you expect us to respect anything so poorly written with so many grammatical errors and misspellings?
The person who wrote this sounds like didn't make it through High School yet they are pontificating on economics?
That said, though a life-long liberal, I agree that the Democrats are just as guilty of tailoring their policies to their funding base as the Republicans. I'm a completely in favor of culling all lobbyists as soon as they poke their noses out on Capitol Hill and placing any congressperson caught fraternizing with them in stocks in the town square to be dealt with by the public.
@BigAl -- Don't worry about me. Just worry about yourself and your ASSumptions. What I posted does not come from Fox News. It comes from Progressive Paul Krugman. You know one of Rachel "Butch" Maddow's buddies. I am a conservative. I do lean right and sometimes far right in my beliefs -- and I make no apologies for that. We will see next year. Besides tell me how a re-election of Obama will HELP this country if the House stays and the Senate possibly goes Republican? Nothing will get done right? So let's do it the easy way -- replace one man for the good of the country.
@mj -- typical liberal elitist response -- attack the messenger and not the message. Welcome to the world of twitter and texts where spelling and grammar isn't important.
Ben, the article you posted DOES NOT add up to what we see happening. I postulate the article in question was a ruse, red herring or deception. The deregulation was done by the GOP. NAFTA by the GOP, Favored trade Status for China by the GOP, TWO major wars by the GOP, Non-Competative contracts for halyburton (Cheneys Company)GOP, Bush era tax breaks for the rich GOP, Norquist Pledge signed by 90% of the GOP.
If my memory were better, I'm sure the list could go on and on. The point here, is your article does NOT hold water. In my opinion it is not only a lie, but another deflection for the GOP.
I'm voting a straight DEMOCRATIC ticket in '12 and I'm an indewpendant.
G
I think Ben just had an attack of apoplexy. He also claims to be a conservative, then a rightist, and then an ultra-rightist. Like anyone else needed to be told. If he got any further right, he'd be off the visible light spectrum. Of course, most of the most famous ultra-rightists were people like Napoleon, Mussolini, and you-know-who, and Ben is entirely comfortable with that comparison, or so it would seem.
Wall street pours money into both parties with more going to the one in power. So for many years it was heavy republican - Paulsen the bailout master was a Wall Streeter and the Treasury Secty for Bush. But now Obama and the Dems are getting an outsized chunk of $$ from the Wall streeters and boy look at the Repubs point fingers. I do not think either party should be getting this money. The Bush court as the Supremes are known decided that corporations should be allowed to pour unlimited amounts of money into politics. It's only going to get worse. The gubmint is a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporations and all you people are their serfs. You can squabble R's vs D's all you want. Serfs of old used to war against serfs of the lords in the neighboring valley. Stupid. Serf against serf while the lords sit in the castle's and laugh. Figure it out people. You are serfs ! They say the dumbing down our school systems have been doing for 40 years has done it's job. The people are dumb now. Nuttin sadder than two 40 year olds can't pay their own bills and one argues the D's did it the other argues the R's did it. While you're arguing the corporations are entrenching deeper in gubmint.
@Cricitical thinker
Your handle/name is pure irony. If you actually had done any sort of critical thinking at all you would not vote a straight democratic tickit, you would vote republican for ron paul.
Based on what you said though its overly obvious you still have the fleece pulled over your eyes with obama's hope and change from 2008. Hate to tell you but, instead of tackling the economy obama chose to start another entitlement program, explain that with your " critical thinking"
@ brendan-4
We all know most Republicans vote Republican just because they are Republican. If your candidate campaigned on a ticket stating that they will execute all first born children when they get elected... A typical republican voter would still voter for that candidate... Voters today are like Amoebas( a single cell organism). They are unable to use common sense and merely vote based on a pack of lies and ridiculous stereotypes that are so far fetched a new born baby could tell it's madness. So, go ahead and cut your noses of to spite your face and see who suffers.
3rd Worlder
Just curious why you didn't call out Critical THinker for the same mentality?
Critical Thinker, NAFTA was Clinton's baby, the 2 wars were voted on by both sides. As I have stated before You can check out YouTube and see plenty of clips of Clinton Warning Congress that Saddam had WMD's, So the whole Bush lied argument doesn't hold up. You're right about the rest of your statement regarding the GOP. But you forget to mention that the Democrats also have Solydra, Fast & Furious, as well as "Shovel -Ready" Jobs, so go ahead and vote straight Dem or straight Rep, you are part of the problem and not the solution.
Simple...
Are you implying that "Democrat" voters are any different than "Republican" voters ???
3rd Worlder
So what class do I fall into, that I'm a Democrat who can't wait to see Obama voted out of office?
Thanks to the Greedy Old Party for the mess we are in. And now they want the White House to take the rest of our lives? No way! Jerks!
I'm on SS disability and get maybe half of poverty level. Prices for everything are going up and up, but SS does not. With the states cutting back on Food Stamps, Medicare ,and any power help; I have to go to free food places and they are only giving 1 package of meat each 2 weeks. Expected to pay more for the doctors, this is money I do not have. I can not afford dental, hearing, or eyesight help.
Many others can say the same thing.
I can only expect things to get worse.
don't look to the Obama administration for help, they are quite content to play political games rather than solve the economic crisis. By the way, Nancy Pelosi clearly stated that food stamps and unemployment benefits are the best way to create jobs, any economist will tell you that. that's what she said. God help us.
Steve, funneling money up does not create demand. Please show links supporting the fact that unemployment benefits do not spur demand. You cant. Talk to small businesses and they will tell you the same thing. They don't need a tax break they need customers. It's simple economics Steve. A tax break means nothing without customers.
Tammy1. You are correct. All businesses need customers, small and large business. But they aren't going to get em. The US economy and society is in a spiral down. The economic multiplier effect is real. It works going down just as well as it works going up. On the top end of society, our gubmint is fully cooperating with corporations who want to globalize. Clinton was the Globalization President and put things in play that the follow on presidents have accelerated. There is no action or talk in Washington about protecting the US, it's economy, it's people except for war talk in terms of national defense. At the middle and low end of society the people are cannibalizing each other as fast as they can. Whether they have a paycheck or a gubmint benefit/retirement check all people run to WalMart and buy all the Chinese/Korean stuff their made in Korea hyundai can hold. Thus they kill each others jobs. Then they holler that "Somebody" needs to do something. Gubmint paychecks are not a stimulus. Economic theory tells us that. First the gubmint has to take the money from a private sector producer. Economists call it a transfer payment. Simply take it from someone to give it to someone else. It has nothing to do with production. Growth comes from the private sector. You need a healthy middle class building and making things using capital invested by the investor class putting it in systems based on inventions and inovations coming from the society in question. Our middle class is cannabalizing itself. Our investors class is investing overseas. Our Gubmint is OK with that. Our top 5% of earners and wealthiest folks control it all and are doing quite OK with the system the way it is. They don't see the problem. There is nothing in the works to change this trend. There will be no customers other than the remains fo the middle class still thinking they can send their paychecks to Asia and it's OK. They don't read, they don't think.
Steve, please explain how the free market is going to help Dok, or those in his situation. The only way to help people in these situations is to increase their benefits. The free market is not going to do it. Unless Dok is trying to get a job, which it doesn't seem like he can. He states he can't afford to go to the dentist, audiologist or the optometrist. So I guess damn Obama for wanting people like Dok to be able to do that. I guess the only solution is the republican one: let Dok pull himself up by his own bootstraps and cut his benefits.
IReadYou: Obviously, you are not aware that Hyundai builds their cars in the United States, much like Honda and Toyota. However, Ford has their cars built in Mexico....who knew?
Yes Didi I know that. But they imported so many for so long most of em on the road in the US are imports -- that'd be 100% built elsewhere. That ol factory in Bama was built in 2005. Hyundai started selling cars in the US in 1986. So 19 years of 100% imports before Assembly plant in Bama, Now 6 years receiving parts made in Korea and elsewhere outsiode the US. So, yes Didi I do know the ASSEMBLY plant is in Bama. Where do you think they get their parts to assemble ? Ans: a lot of them come from imports. In the car business, Assembly is assembly, and parts are parts. Two totally separate operations usually under command of separate Divisions of the corporation. As you say: Who knew? So go be charming elsewhere and maybe read some on manufacturing operations while your at it.
The economy NEEDS an IMMEDIATE boost. Military funding needs to be cut first, followed by more taxation on the uber-rich (they're only getting richer these days). Emulate the parts of FDR's program that would work on a modern economy.
The recession is over. Say hello to Great Depression 2.0.
FDR prolonged the Depression. Stop reading state school books and listening to revisionist history...go study the business cycle and what caused the Depression. In no way will higher taxes or FDR-esque policies help anyone get out of this Depression...unless you want to last as long as FDR did in office!
The Depression only ended after we brought all out troops home from WW2 and stopped spending so much money on it and government. We slashed spending, the Depression subsided.
ProIndividual: If you're correct, then bringing home the troops from Iraq should cause this depression to subside, am I correct? I'm sorry, but I'll have to see it to believe it!
we get poorer and our politicians get fatter on our money!So many out of work,losing homes and unable to buy even necessities ! Yet Obama stays focused in Hawaii ,i believe this week!You got your change folks,enjoy!
Change = bad. No change = bad. It's a lose-lose situation.
His family is in Hawaii.....not him. Nice try though
Tammy1....Why is it that Michelle always takes her own 747 when they go anywhere ?? Costing Gazillions of extra taxpayer dollars....I guess she can't stand being on the same plane with him. I knew the President gets AirForce 1...I didn't know the FirstLady got AirForce 2...even when they are going to the same place....
Didn't they send Bo on his own plane once too ???
And why is it that Cain got protection paid for by the citizens of this country....get real. And why is it that when Michelle was shopping at Target good ole Newt was off to buy diamonds? Hell, Newt took his yacht off on a vacation rather than spread his word. Oh and why is it that our congress needs to go home for the holidays when so many Americans need help?
@Mike in Delray - Why she takes her own 747 you ask? Well if we look at the reality and vicious attitude of the reich wing, I think I would take my own 747 for safety reasons alone, but if you look at the past, ALL past presidents and their families security is taken very seriously. So quick question Mike, was it OK for the republican presidents to do this and it's not ok for the democrats?
@Mike
Travel arrangements such as that are all made by the Secret Service, not the President and First Lady. BTW, show a little respect. Mrs Obama has done nothing to harm you and has been nothing but gracious even when idiots try their best to insult her. She has done more good in the past 3 years then you will probably do in your entire life.
President Kennedy started that. He told us he didn't want his children to be left with NO parents, in the event of a crash.
initially, I didn't know what this post was about. Then I got to reading and thinking about it. I checked tax weary1's bio and sure enough. He's a hateful GOP troll. This post is a deflection effort to try to ruin the good name of our president.
Any questions relation to the travel arrangements of the president and his family should be directed to the US Secret Service. The president has nothing to do with it, nor can he change it.
GOP= HATE
G
taxweary1
While Obama is in Hawaii, what are the republicans doing to help you? Oh yeah, fighting for those tax breaks for the rich. Get your head out of your ass and look at the alternative when criticizing Obama!
Tammy1 & WeThePeepsNet....
Cain got Secret Service protection because they believed the Threats to his safety were credible.
"reich wing"...really ??.....I don't recall Laura Bush taking a separate jet to Crawford,TX or wherever, a few hours or days before the President. It would have been HEADLINE news. Seems to be a reoccurring event with Michelle.
And I DO have a problem with Any President of Either Party abusing AirForce 1, as in making 4 or 5 Fundraising stops and throwing in a "Official Duty" speech somewhere....The Reimbursement Policy they use is an absolute joke.....
Mike, Duh....You don't "recall" much do you? Well, except what you want to recall... Any time the President or the First Lady go anywhere they rightly receive Secret Service protection. Its part of the job, period. If you don't get that then you are just trying to hijack this vine...duh...
so let me get this straight Mike....threats to Cain warranted his protection. I'm guessing that the first family has never been threatened? Your arguments are weak at best....move on. As for Nancy Reagan and the first lady...well at least the first lady didnt go on a redecorating bonanza. Please Mike get your facts straight or at least move on to larger issues.
"Michelle Obama & Daughters Head To Hawaii For Christmas" ...This was last year
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/michelle-obama-daughters-_n_798364.html
"The decision by First Lady Michelle Obama to leave on schedule for her two-week Hawaii vacation and not wait a few days for her delayed husband will probably cost taxpayers more than $63,000 – and possibly well in excess of $100,000 – in additional expenses, according to a White House Dossier analysis."
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2010/12/22/michelle-obama-hawaii/
__________________________________________......Now, this year:
"For payroll tax deal, President Obama could delay Hawaii trip"
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/69991.html#ixzz1gcEuJnKLAre
Are Michelle and the kids leaving in 2 days, on the 17th, as planned ??
My Question was and is....Why can't Michelle wait until he can go and save the taxpayers the money for her separate flights ??....It's not like she didn't know she was married to the POTUS ....
So, yeah, I know that they get and deserve Secret Service Protection.....but those costs go up too when she can't wait for the President....
Jump on me all you like....but try and answer my question while you're at it.
How much does it cost to redecorate compared to flying every where. Both Obamas are wasteful. He spends money like it our money and she is a typical liberal wife. Go figure!!!!!
And let's not mention the past president (name withheld) who spent more than 300 days in Texas on vacation during his term.....I'm sure he and his family didn't WALK there!
Did Barbara fly there first on her own President 2. Obama has spent more time on vacation than even me. I am retired. 300 days in 8 years aren't bad. 2000 days for Obama in 2 years. Liberal thinking gets you everything.
Otis Scales you are a TRUE liar.
Thank You, H8theHYPE. So you really know what a liar is. I admit I stretched the truth a tiny bit. At least you can tell when Obama is lying. His lips are moving and his voice is heard.
1 in 2 americans huh? Thats half of the people are now poor or low income, it looks like the top 50% are going to be paying a lot more taxes to support the bottom 50% of poor and low income people. It`s only going to get worse if the economy doesn`t improve soon. Whats going to happen when the top 10% are paying more in taxes than they get to keep just to support the bottom 90% ? The do nothing congress is causing irrepairable damage to this once great country.
At this rate, an FDR-style wonder cure is needed.
Spartan,
FDR's programs just kept us afloat until WW2. It was winning the war that proved to be the cure.
Do you want to stay afloat for a bit, or do you want to sink to the bottom?
Spartan,
To answer that I would say floating is better than drowning. I guess my point being that this whole issue needs to be understood and fixed before we actually do end up in another world war. I do not think that historical models will serve in this new age of global technology that we are in. Lots of people may not be aware of the fact that this argument over taxing the wealthy capitalists and deregulating enterprise goes back several hundred years. Maybe even more.
The Depression of the thirtys was cured by WWII FDR's programs were not the cure and are not today either!
This country blows! There are not enough handouts, the people that don't work are poor, our FREE schools are not good enough, healthcare actually costs money, and republicans are the only ones who seem to be successful. Everyone should just leave! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA its time for you guys to get a job picking vegetables or building roads, all the Mexican immigrants have no trouble with finding one so why can't you?
I have absolutely no sympathy for an unwed 18-year-old couple with an 18-month-old toddler who can't make ends meet. NEWS FLASH! Kids cost A LOT of money. Keep your legs and zippers closed...that way, when you lose your minimum wage paying, dead-end job, no one except YOU has to suffer. I smell gov't assistance not too far off in the future for them. More leeches to suck off the rest of the smart, financially responsible adults like me.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't cover 50% of the country. Many must have been laid off, and due to the crappy economy they can't find a job.
I believe the father was an electrician before he lost his job. Electricians at one time made enough to support a family of four without the wife working. I believe the company he was working for must be another of those companies that haven't been told about our "recovery."
Yes Jenny, you are brilliant. And a wonderful human being as well. :)
Jenny-1680959
That simplistic of an Idea of the real world is usually created by some one whose is IQ below 100.
Jenny,
Well, aren't we full of ourselves?
Bet you she's single and White and live in the South .....
So Jenny, can you tell us how smart you are in quantitative terms? Yeah, I didn't think so either. But hey, we should just take you at your word, shouldn't we? I must say, all the patting of yourself on the back is probably going to cause problems with your shoulder joints somewhere down the line, so maybe you should give it a rest. Mmmmmkay?
I'm thinking jenny's lack of compassion is second only to her ignorence on this subject. We are talking about 50% of the US working population. Sure, younge people all over this country make poor decisions, but the greed of big business sending all the jobs over seas is the root of this issue.
GOP = Greed Over People
GOP = Hate of the american worker
OBAMA in '12
G
Why don't you respond to her main thought? What she says is true. You personally attack her for stating a truth, why?
Jenny, may God have mercy for your soul. You are obviously an ungrateful , snobby, ignorant girl. Like it or not, the poor are just as necessary as the rich. Hmmm, maybe if these super greedy corporations with super greedy CEOs that are making record wages by cutting labor costs had to provide their own childcare, clean their own toilets and pick up their own trash, they would have a little more respect for those working for a living. It is not the fault of any hard working human being, that they are not getting paid a liveable wage. Not everyone gets to go to college to obtain the education to get them a good paying job. Even if everyone did go to college, who is going to work at the gas station and the grocery store?
Thinking, when this couple started their family he was employed as an electrician. I doubt his crystal ball told him he was going to be unemployed as the housing industry was booming and electricians found plenty of work. The problem with her thinking is that she lacks the ability to understand that this scenario can happen to anyone, including herself.
Trying to portray all unemployed as lazy is becoming an increasingly weak argument. Personally, I see her lack of compassion as a sign that she has never walked a mile in their shoes. YET Call it ignorant or delusional, but it can happen to anyone and Jenny is a fool for not understanding that.
Jenny does have a point. 18 years old with a child already is not an indicator of potential financial success. Every time I hear about another young couple, who are making a limited income, who "got pregnant" makes me want to ask: Do you know where babies come from? In fact, I do ask that on a regular basis of young soldiers during my work as a psychologist for the Army. Yes, they have an income, but it's low. They are vague about long term goals. They may or may not stay in the Army.
Statistically, single mothers tend to make up a large proportion of those living in poverty. Add to that the young families made up of adults with at best a high school education and several children. Where is personal responsibility? Where is making decisions about long-term goals and planning for economic independence?
mrwarmth
Jenny-1680959’s comment obviously reflects her mental state; let her continue to rant and rave so that all men will know that she's “mad”.
Jenny does have a point, but her solution isn't the most sensible and the problem sure as hell doesn't describe everyone. Like I said, a large portion of poor people were simply laid off and couldn't find another job. When the economy is as bad as it is right now, it's ridiculous to say that only stupid people are poor.
Agreed with Spartan. I don't think labeling poor as 'stupid' and moving on is the answer. Quite a few are far from it.
However, I did not like the use in this article of a young couple who bred while in poverty. If you can't support yourselves, why are you breeding?
Again, even if one has long term goals and a college education, this economy does not guarantee that they will have a job that pays a liveable wage, does that mean we should only allow the rich to procreate. Sounds likea good idea to me, but who will work in the gas stations and restaurants and grocery stores? People are ignorant and selfish. Yes there are people who make poor decisions, no one is as perfect as Jenny or cchance. Sure, there are people who abuse the system, but really do you know how hard it is to get assistance in this country? A single mother making with 2 children making $10 an hour will get only a small amount of childcare assistance and only by the so called trained childcare workers form the job and family services. I want you all to see if you can make a budget of this income, $320 a week net income, childcare costs only $70 a week thanks to that assistance, gasoline is about $80 a week,rent is $125 a week, that leaves $45 a week for groceries and utilities that are constantly going up in price to support those poor broke corporations.
In times like these, poor people really shouldn't procreate. If you're struggling to make ends meet, do you really want another mouth to feed? The rich shouldn't really procreate too much either (we got enough people on the planet), but the poor have a very personal incentive to use birth control.
There never is any guarantees. But if you study hard and choose a major that is in demand, you can get a job in this economy.
No.
But people that can't afford to provide for themselves need to think about using contraceptives. Children are expensive.
There will always be certain jobs like that. But due to other circumstances, jobs like manufacturing are on the decline. Will they come back? I don't know. I'm not an economist.
However, what I do know is that currently there is a plethora of people that can fill those job roles you listed. Why do you think surgeons have such high salaries? It's supply and demand at fault there. If everyone's baseline education qualified them to be a open-heart surgeon, I'm sure their salaries would be quite low.
Yes, and there needs to be better enforcement to assure that money goes to people who actually need it. Not those with cable TV, big screen TVs, high speed internet, modern computers, and other luxuries that the middle class has to pay full price for. Social Services are needed, they always will be. But here they are talking about making government subsided cable and high speed internet. That dropped my jaw a little. I'm in the middle class, and have to pay full price for those. Why is it the poor get luxuries I have to pay full price for?
Food prices are going up largely due to the cost of importing and transporting them (i.e. gas). Oil prices are going up because India and China have industrialized (see law of supply and demand). What we need is to move or energy sources off of fossil fuels where we can stop our addiction to the OPEC drug dealers that are gauging us.
I don't think that many 18 year olds can provide for themselves let alone for a dependent. And let's not even get in to the discussion if 18 year olds are mature enough to handle the responsibility of being a parent...
In any case this clearly shows that more money needs to be spent in education. It's shocking how many high schoolers think that condoms are all powerful...
@Jenny,
I do have sympathy for the struggling 18 year old couple with a toddler. Why? Because it was the republican noise machine that stepped in anyones way that wanted to teach that couple about safe sex and condoms. It was the republican machine that wants that couple to have a toddler, never go to college and end up on some factory floor or at walmart. After all, if they had gone to college they might realize what a load of crap the republicans were feeding them. Now of course they are easy to manipulate and easily convinced their problems are the fault of immigrants, liberals and socialism. I do feel sympathy for them because if the republicans continue their influence of tax cuts for the rich and to hell with the middle class that couple will have no chance in life to do anything more than just eke by.
Maybe Sarah Palin's daughter could be the poster child for teen sex education. I bet all the "financially responsible"adults on here are republican, pro-life and God fearing Christians. What would Jesus do? Would Jesus turn his back on 18 year olds that are trying to take responsibilty for the child they made and kept ? Would he be angry that he had to pay taxes that benefitted a child born to young people who are unable to obtain a job with liveable wages?
As far as I am concerned, she is: a representative on how much of a failure "sex-ed" currently is.
No.
Depends on trimester.
Agnostic. I believe there is something but I think religion should be a private matter.
Who knows what Jesus would do? We could surmise all day on what someone else might do. He lived in a different time.
Being angry isn't a sin.
We talked about this already. It's about supply and demand. People without education are seen as a dime a dozen to low-skill jobs, because anyone qualifies for them. Our entire economic system is built upon this.
The only way to stop the corruption and fix the mess this country has become is to replace ALL elected officials for the next 12 years. That means if you are a congressman or senator today then you need to be voted out, the congressman or senator that takes their place needs to be voted out in the following election then repeat the process one more time. Political parties do not matter at this point Americans need to quit being so short sighted. We didn't get into this mess overnight and we are not going to get out of it overnight.
The last thing we all need to start doing is BUY AMERICAN MADE, if it isn't made here then we need to start making it here. Let the Chinese keep their cheap tainted products, we don't need them.
The big problem here is that if you vote out ALL the current politicians, you'll just get a new bunch that are ALSO sponsored by Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Banking. The common man can't afford to run for office without the backing of big corporations lately! All we're EVER going to get in Government is corporate-backed politicians who will do all they can for their cronies just to keep their jobs. So, voting out the current bunch will only bring in another bunch of the same ilk. I do, however, think there should be term limits, no lobbyist money allowed, and no corporate campaign funds allowed!! Maybe, then, we could get a candidate that isn't beholden to the corpocracy we presently have in Washington, D.C.!
As for the teen-age couple with the baby.....he couldn't have been a full-fledged electrician. At his age, he had to be a journeyman. It takes many years to get to be an actual electrician.
@jenny - your one of those little smartass know it alls that I just love to fire and give the job to someone that needs it. Good luck to you and your behavior...............your just what the world needs to purge itself of.
instead of all the liberal class warfare rhetoric we get from Chuck Shummer, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Obama, and the all knowing Debbie Wasserman Schultz, how about implementing an environment friendly towards business so more people will have jobs? The NLRB fiasco with Boeing, preventing 1000+ jobs to cowtow to unions was disgraceful. How about approving the Keystone pipeline, more offshore drilling to help us be energy independent and put people to work. Kill the healthcare bill that punishes businesses if they hire more than 50 people and drives the cost of healthcare insurance through the roof. Food stamps and unemployment benefits are not the answer, NANCY.
Wealth was "trickling down" while Bush was around. It didn't work back then, and it sure as hell won't work now.
the economy, even with the war on terror, was doing pretty well until 2008. Bush was president for 8 years. Bush tax cuts went to every tax payer not just the rich. Every tax payer. He did more to help lower income people than the dems ever thought of doing. It is only their rhetoric that has you so enticed.
The last time I checked, the economy was declining ever since the War on Terror started. Things took a sharp turn for the worse at around 2005.
The proposals for the bank bailout started in 2008, they were Bush's idea of how to fix the economy, they were paid in 2009, after Bush left office but they had already been voted in during Bush's terms. The banks needed a bail out because so many had defaulted on their home loans because they had lost their jobs and the banks were in a state of near collapse. So that means that the economic ruin started well before 2007 regardless of what anyone says. It takes a while for a bank to foreclose and most people will hang on to their house for as long as possible. Use some common sense.
Steve you never fail in your ability to give a response that is completely disconnected from any type of reality. Keep up the good work. :)
Steve-3200687instead of all the liberal class warfare rhetoric we get from Chuck Shummer, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Obama, and the all knowing Debbie Wasserman Schultz, how about implementing an environment friendly towards business so more people will have jobs?
We already have it, its not working out or haven't you noticed.
nita-2075808...(#12.4)....Yup....and Senator Barry Obama took a Campaign Time-Out to come to D.C. to vote in favor of it.....Hoping he would be able to get his hands on all that money....change the rules of where that money could go ....and he succeeded on both...Hey.....I just noticed in what I wrote.....Hope and Change !?!?!.....Imagine That .......
SPARTAN-501 Wealth was trickling down? Where do you get that from? Since 1996, middle class incomes have decreased 4 percent, while housing has gone up 86 percent. Try facts instead of random rhetoric.
The wealth trickled down to me. I just didn't buy too much house because Barney said I could. I could have bought a new BMW, settled for a 2 year old Cadillac. I did get a big screen TV, after I saved the money to get it. The liberal idea of poverty is whenever someone economically smarter than you has better (PAID FOR) stuff than you. When the media actually shows video of American children with swollen bellies, hanging skin and flies waiting for death I'll believe in impoverished Americans. If they can film Ethiopians they can film all these poor starving Americans.
"Trickling down" as in what the Republicans keep telling you. Not actually trickling down.
Thanks Spartan.....glad to hear you were not the source of random rhetoric. For the life of me I cannot understand why people continue to believe this nonsense when the facts are there for everyone to see. I guess they are just too busy watching the "news".
All would be fixed if we just TAXED big corporations instead of giving them a TAX REFUND ! But congress is to far in the pockets of those corporations to see the good old U.S.A.
When you tax big corporations, there's always a danger of them laying off more people to "cover costs" (i.e. to ensure that the bosses get paid exorbitant amounts). I'm thinking that layoffs should be banned for a year or so, during which big corporations are taxed heavily. Meanwhile, the bottom 50% should receive a tax cut.
@Spartan:
Corporations need their tax system reformed so there are no loopholes, and then we can actually drop their tax rate to be more in line with the rest of the world to encourage them to spend money here.
With no loopholes and a lower rate, I'm pretty positive we'd make more taxes from corporations than before.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg/450px-Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg.png
"Trickling down" as in what the Republicans keep telling you. Not actually trickling down."
Trickle Down Economics is a teabagging Greedy Old Party lie ... for once, the teabagging Greedy Old Party should be honest and call it what it really is ...
Tinkle On Ekonomiks ...
The teabagging Greedy Old Party have been claiming for years that it's raining when in reality, they've been pissing on the middle class and working poor ...
Sounds like a great time to burn a bunch of money on a new war in Iran so the Texans can get oil money instead of using innovation or evolving
Thank you Bush, Halliburton, Baker Hughes, Weatherford International and Schlumberger for bankrupting America so you can continue your oil business. You made a joke of 'democracy' fooled most of the country, but not me. I can see the countries surrounding the Mediterranean sea falling to make way for your pipelines and tankers and I know it's not just coincidence.
Sorry Spartan.....it took a turn for the worse in 2006, right after the Dems took over Congress. Furthermore, they owned all of Washington from 2008-2010 and did nothing except spend trillions which did nothing for anyone.
We need a leader in the White House who can take back control of the country AND congress and get us moving forward.
Not someone who is so incompetent that poverty rises and people Occupy.
@Laker Steve:
Government acts take years to take effect.
That's one of the most despicable sentiments I've ever seen expressed.
The *media* isn't going to spoon-feed you anything but what it wants to; if you want an education, don't expect it to come from MSNBC.
And you don't have to look very far to find the sort of images you claim don't exist. You're just not trying b/c you can keep right on pretending poverty in the US doesn't exist if you don't have to look at it.
Poor people are in trouble. And I see at the rate our government is going, It's going to get a lot worse. The only salution that I see is people getting out to vote the 1% out of office. The 99% are going to have to take our government back. They are not interested in the poor. The poor can't pay their way into power. All that matters is that they stay in power. And if our country fails and falters, Is that it happen on the current presidents watch, Even though we are the ones that let it happen.
thelum damn you can't remember vary well the unemployed rate was 4.7 in jan. 2007 when the dems took over. pelosi, reid,carter and others took off on their opack oil tour and remember we were only allowed to see them but not here what they were talking about. almost 2 months later oil shot up to 174.00 wich came out to 4.76 per gallon and higher in other aeras. then ole chuckey started his the banks are going under and with the help of the news everyone was letting their house go and it was ok if you wanted to say to the hell with it. obama was in the senate at the time so he knew everything that was going on if not then he is really a dumb a$$, because damn sure does not listen or pay attention to anyone or anything not evan rev.wright. so having the house and the senate in 2007 and 2008 as the dems did you know how much damage they can do after all with only the house look at what you say the repub. are doing to stop everything. and the dems know what screwing up the works look like because they invented it in 2007 and 2008
If you say so..... But I'm living in the present. And I read and understand what I read. And anyone that can read and understand, Knows whos doing what to our country, And if you do read and understand what you read. Prepare yourself for another 4 years of the same president we have now. And still a democratic govermment in 2016, and beyound. ;)
One thing that scares me is the growing base skill level needed for jobs, and how our public education system does a mediocre job at best to prepare students for the rest of their lives. People that drop out of high school do not realize they will pretty much only have a job at McDonalds or the like for the rest of their lives.
We need to make it easier for future generations to get a college degree, but that's my 2c.
Loaded Goat, your information is way off the mark. Unemployment in january 2007 was already on the down slide as it was the third consecutive downward quarter. The fourth quarter 2007 was the 5th straight negative quarter and the official start of the GREAT RECESSION. AKA Bush's and Cheney's watch. The oil pak tour you so eloquently speak about was a direct result of the closed door energy summit Mr Cheney had with the heads of the OPEC nations, then quickly classified them as secret so the media could not make the notes public. shoertly thereafter oil prices shot over $4.00 per gallon.
Shortly after this GW Bush Declares war on IRAQ naming WMD as his reason. Of which NONE were ever found. We the american worker have been paying for that mistake ever since. The GOP has done nothing to help the american worker at all. they have been nothing but hatful and obstructionists since the GREAT RECESSION started.
OBAMA in '12
G
The Lum: The 99% can't AFFORD to run for office. Where would they get campaign funds??? Just asking....
Everyone, you are forgetting to credit our legislator (from the Pres on down to the mayor of your local) with their single biggest accomplishment that $800 billion (over 10+ years) bought you. You never feared nor weren't maimed or killed from any terrorist threat. Now in light of that significant fact can all of you please just eat your bowl of watered down soup, given to you freely at the local soup kitchen, and then crawly back into your cardboard box, that is your new residence, and go quietly back to sleep.
Actually its more like 4 trillion dolllars for the cost of 10 years and still going of perpetual war. You still have to include the cost of healthcare for these maimed soldiers returning that they will need for the rest of their lives. And don't forget the bottomless money pit that is afghanistan-$2billion of YOUR money every single day. Cha ching Cha ching, gurgle. Yea that is your money flushing down the toilet. So yea I predict the US will be bankrupt in about 5 years according to the downward trajectory. If this country has any sanity left whatsoever it will bring in RON PAUL as our president in 2012 who will put it back on the right track. Everyone else just wants the status quo. He will bring TOTAL change. Bring home every single troop from our 900 bases that we operate abroad including the one in IRAQ that is the biggest embassy in the world with 17000 contractors sucking our gov money and ripping us off.
But hey what do I know I am one of those crazy RON PAUL cooks right? I already know its too late. You guys wont bring in the one HONEST man left in DC to be POTUS. So I need to plan for the eventual demise of this country. I am already going to start learning chinese and diversify investments. This country is not as great as it once was and is going down fast. There will be a continuing demise, you mark my words. Not now but wait perhaps for 5 years from now you will see how terrible things will be no matter who is in the white house democrat or republican. They are both thugs of the highest order. Newt/Romney/Obama these guys are all the same and have fooled you into thinking they care about you left/right folks.
Ask yourself if the 1% will ever stop their war on the middle class. Ask yourself if they will they ever relent with their merciless campaign to impoverish the 99% who aren't billionaires. They won't. They will never stop; on the contrary, they will strive harder. They are blinded by greed and fueled with rage towards those whom they will always view as economic parasites. But who are the real economic parasites? They tell the poor to "go get jobs" when they have spent the last 35 years exporting every industry they can, being rewarded with tax breaks in the process. They scoff arrogantly at those who desperately need food stamps to eat, while they themselves drain the coffers of our treasury dry through no-bid government contracts, tax loopholes, and massive government bailouts. If you are foolish enough to think that the 1% will ever be satisfied, I pity you. There is no satisfying the bottomless pit of their lust for money. They will continue to suck this country dry until every last one of our citizens is living in a cardboard box.
how in the world do you get this sick
Steve,
If Dominic is sick I hope it is contagious. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to catch that "intelligent" virus.
And yet people like Steve continue to believe these "job creators" will share their good fortune and offer up more jobs with better pay. These job creators have openly admitted they are hoarding cash and are now making more profits than ever before. So tell me Steve where are the jobs? There are none because there is no demand. Demand was created by a middle class that could afford to go out and buy things. They cannot do that now, hence no demand and no jobs.
Steve these are very basic economic facts....like alsophia, I really hope you get struck by the "intelligent" virus.
Dominic, maybe we need to see beyond your point. What happens when the majority of the people are poor? Who will buy their "stuff"? What will happen to them? What typically happens when people are poor and desperate? Think just maybe payback would be a @#&^!Always the optimist, what goes around, comes around and they will get theirs in the end.
Nanette...take a look at China for that answer. Low paying jobs, people struggling to eat and inflation out of control. Yet, they have enough money to lend to us right.
What is happening right now is not something that can be fixed and fast. We have seen the definition, whether it is the time value of money, or the new definition of poverty, the percentage of people defined as poor has gone from one in four to half in less than a month. As mentioned above, at this rate the rich will be the only ones paying taxes. Yes it is going to be painful. Their greed can not be sustained indefinitely. This issue with poverty is not just the United States. As the balance tips, and it appears it is happening pretty fast these days, the rich are shooting themselves in the foot with their greed. Expecting the greed to chance to compassion and the rich to support the poor, just look at the posts calling the poor lazy, stupid, uneducated, etc. I don't see compassion. There is one thing that is quite different from China and the United States, we KNOW and have experienced better times that China has never known. If all you have known is poverty then you have no reality on what it means to live a "comfortable" life. Most Americans are educated and will only tolerate so much before they rise up.
Statistics will bare out that poverty causes crime. The cost of crime to the wealthy is high. The rich will not only lose due to lack of consumerism but also to crime born out of desperation. This system that we are currently experiencing CAN NOT sustain itself. Change will happen even if the government can not come up with viable solutions.
Exactly, and that is why we now have protestors on Wall Street. The population at one time experienced the American dream, I do not believe they are going to willingly let it die. While I do agree that many of us are educated, many more will not do anything until it hurts them in one way or another. As this population of poor continues to grow, I believe the protest will too. "Let them eat cake" comes to mind.
For now, those who see owning a big screen tv as a symbol of being financially stable, are content to stand by and watch. Eventually, the greed and trickle up economy will have an impact on them as demand slows. Then, they will have no choice but to join the ranks of the poor in protest.
Steve, many many many years from now when you die( I mean no offense).. Please donate you brain to science... I would love to know the science behind stupidity LOL ( This you can take offense to)
As a kid I had a problem when watching cartoon villians wanting to steal all the "money in the world". I suspected then and know now that having everyone else, as you say "living in cardboard boxes" will eventually deplete the power of the evil rich villians. I ask you Dominic, why would the one percent who is so hell bent on destroying you, want no more customers (since we'll all have nothing purchase with) and no one to buy from (since we'll all have no means to produce products for the evils to procure)? What do you want done to rich people? Would you exact a different punishment on those who used to be middle-class but became rich? What has made you feel so powerless, weak and impotent? Over-extension, over-optimism and greed in varying degrees from most of us (not just 1% of us) got us here. Our (great-)grandparents got out of the Depression and we'll get out this...but could you please stop it with the envy and hate? It won't improve or fix anything.
This was set up 10 years ago...we're just seeing it all reach critical mass now. Globalization is slow frying developed economies. Big corporations and the .5% that actually control the world make the money and play everyone else off for a limited pool of jobs.
Nations cannot stop this - Big Business has taken control of the global job market and will work to reset wages across the world in the process. If India is cheaper, the work is going t be there. If Africa works out cheaper again, India gores back to starving along with other more expensive nations.
I keep saying this but ... the Genie is out of his bottle and he ain't going back. Jobs will be low paying and scarce as the 'buyers market' is ramped up for the benefit of global corporate players. Even elective surgery will require a plane trip to India or SE Asia if the HMOs have anything to say about it.
Obama hasn't done much at all in an attempt to arrest this disgrace but he sure didn't start it.
Your kids and grandkids are set up to fail now ...they'll have to become 'illegals' in a foreign land to get work soon.
I agree with this. Most people don't even realize what makes up the top 1%. the top 1% consists of that group of people employed at the CEO level or close to it. The ones that make the decision to lay off 100,000 people in the US and build 3 new manufacturing facilities in China. We are wasting time even discussing it, this train wreck has been coming for 20 years and it's too late to stop it now. It can't be fixed and all we can do is let it happen and then rebuild, and yes, we'll have a depression worse than the great depression.
businesses move out of the country to be in a better business climate, to make more money. That is the whole idea, period. TO MAKE MONEY. It should be the goal of our government to keep business here in the USA and to do that they must create a better business climate (less regulation, less taxes). Trades unions need to be more reasonable in their demands.
Steve the stupid...
The climate your government created was a vehicle to ship jobs overseas... At what point did you think there would be repercussions? We know who are in the pockets of the corporations and the lobbyists... When the blue collar jobs leave US soil, how many of those workers can transition to a high skilled/high tech job? You have been sold to new masters and not even know it...
I completely agree. Here come the sheeple to set up their tent cities.
Steve: It's already been proven that "less regulations" will NOT provide more jobs. In fact, it will cost jobs. We've been cutting back on regulations for years, and it hasn't don't a thing for our economy, and it won't do anything now. The problems from de-regulation are what have caused us to be where we're at now! Look at the "de-regulation" of our banking industry.....
The Republicans need to quit worrying about the economy and raise taxes to give more to all of the people suffering as a result of rich Democrats and Wall Street. I'll be happy when Obama gets this all fixed in his next term.
Don't hold your breath on that happening
Viet Sem FiThe Republicans need to quit worrying about the economy
They have already, that's why the chit is hitting the fan.
The party of NO, at your disservice.
Viet Sem Fi,
I would love for your wish to come thru... Then we go from no hope to absolutely not a chance in hell... Luckily, I know how to survive in a 3rd world country :)
No HOPE with this DOPE
Newt the lizard, right up your ally.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Bush and the Republicans lost the war in Iraq, but they won the one against the US middle class.
Thank you corporate America and your congressional puppets for welcoming the USA into third world status, we are ever so grateful for our blue plastic tent and our crust of bread. Thank you also to the sheeple (99%er's) who allowed this to happen. I think it is about time for an American Spring. Too bad you youngsters don't know your parents tossed your birthright for short term gain.
Do they still hand out those 5lb blocks of cheese for foodstamps?
1 in 2 are two frigging worthless to try and work, and Obama will see that they get more DOPE money, and the soup kitchens will feed them...
GW'S new world order....
GW should be charged with TREASON for the new world order.
Dont forget Cheney, he sold this country out to the OPEC nations. The list of GOP traitors is long..
G
Obama's days as POTUS may be on a countdown but I hate what the republicans have done to this country starting with GW. Once a great country, the republicans and tea partiers have destroyed this country due to the positions they took on budget crisis, not approving jobs initiatives of Obama and their unwillingness to even put a 1% surtax on the richest 1% of the population to allow 90% of working to get a 2% reduction in their payroll taxes for one more year. The richest 1% have had their income go up 275% in the last decade since GW took over - but hardly any new jobs were created. This country has gone down the drain since Mitch McConnell became the leader of the republican party and Jon Kyle the second in charge of that party. Shame on them!!
Obama's bill was defeated by both Republicans and Democrats. The Republicans did not have enough votes to defeat it on their own. The plan was so bad that Democrats broke ranks and voted it down. I know that you probably don't know this because you probably went to a public school where you were taught by government employees, to love government. They also taught you that is not fair that others have more, and that if you vote for big government, they will make those evil rich people pay you. I've got news for you. The Democrats are wall street. The top 10% of the most wealthy investors identify themselves as Democrats. Wall street has given more political contributions to Obama, than all of the Republican candidates combined. His plan would not have touched the ultra wealthy that you hate so badly. The tax code is re-written every year to exclude those in the top percent who contribute to the powers in office. The ultra wealthy and the government (which are the same) can always count on you (the envious) to do the right thing. Which is to keeep giving them more power by demanding that they take from everyone but themselves.
French Fry, there were like 2 dems against it b/c it raised taxes on the rich. Those two dems are DINOs in Red States.
Koch Brothers and other billionaires like the Walton family all give to repugs.
I've never in all my life run into such a bunch of whiners as you people on this MSNBC page. Democrats preach "blame the rich" for everything in the world and you march along like a bunch of lemmings. You want a handout, you want someone else to take care of you. "get the other guy to pay, he has more money than me", whah whah... Good grief.
Than go to a conservative blog where they will tell you what you want to hear, whiner. Good grief!!!
try thinking. It may be enlightening
You shouldn't be on the MSNBC blog - go to FOX news blog where you can find sympathizers for your positions!!
Bots like Steve get paid $.81/post to come here & stir the pot. Fox gets their morons for free.
Steve,
The richest 1% should be asked for 5% increase in their taxes so that they can pay for the illegal and irresponsible Iraq and Afghan war their beloved leader GW started to satisfy his ego and his buddies in the defense industry.
that won't even make a dent
the war in Afghanastan was a direct result in our country being attacked and 3,000 American deaths. GW defended the country and your sorry a s s. Iraq was probably a mistake, but a country has a chance at freedom as a result. The top 1% already pay near 40% of all federal income tax. Obama and the democratic leaders are leading you people around by the nose with all this class warfare c r a p. And by the way, can't you manage to defend your position to someone who disagrees? or you are only comfortable around people that support you?
So we should just celebrate that they've had tremendous tax cuts and have grown incredibly wealthy as a result while the rest of us have seen flat or declining incomes for decades?
They laugh at us, and at you, pal.
There is approx 1.4 million filers in the 1 percent. The minimum AGI is 343,000. So that is before deductions. The majority of that 1.4 million are in the salary range below 500,000. According to the IRS the avg tax rate was 24 percent. So lets say we raise the taxes on this group by 5 percent as a special surcharge, because many in this income bracket would not get hurt by raising the top marginal rate. An example would be Warren Buffet that only pays himself 100,000 and the rest comes in UNEARNED income not subject to higher taxes YET. Let's use 500,000 as the average income. That means each family would pay an additional 25,000 in federal taxes. So 25,000 times 1.4 million filers is your benefit, which I believe would be 35 billion.
That unfortunately would barely make a dent.
Next plan.
"and the government's safety net frays."
A safety net exists to catch those who fall, so they can get back up again. The challenge we have is that too many people are staying in the net way too long. Some people are in the net trying to get out, and some are in the net with no desire to get out. The safety net was never designed to be a long term solution, so we need to stop treating it as such.
The economy and the market are being driven by the financial crisis in Europe. The financial crisis in Europe is a direct result of government spending on social programs that are unsustainable.
I see quite a few people blaming the 1% for their woes. Can someone please explain, exactly, how the 1% (the vast majority - say 99% - of which are not the dreaded Wall Street) are to blame? Many of these are small business owners. If taxing them is the solution, what is your plan for the additional revenue?
The couple highlighted in this article are not in their current situation because of the 1%. They are obviously in a tough situation, and moving back in with family makes sense.
The government is simply not is a position, and has NEVER been in the position, to support every person that needs help. This is where local community groups, religious groups and extended family step into help. These groups need our support, and are far more effective than our government in addressing these issues, because they work to get people back on their feet and make them self sufficient.
fools like sicken tired aren't intelligent enough to know when they are brainwashed.
Steve the Stupid LOL... spouting they typical republican propaganda catch phrases... Of course I would much rather a measly $500 monthly government hand out instead of my salary LOL... MORON.
Ahey AJ-2738807
The house and Senate both were run by the Democrats and when GW went to war with Iraq, they voted on it and guess what, they all said YES....
Steve-3200687
the war in Afghanastan was a direct result in our country being attacked and 3,000 American deaths. GW defended the country and your sorry a s s. Iraq was probably a mistake, but a country has a chance at freedom as a result. The top 1% already pay near 40% of all federal income tax. Obama and the democratic leaders are leading you people around by the nose with all this class warfare c r a p. And by the way, can't you manage to defend your position to someone who disagrees? or you are only comfortable around people that support you?
AMEN brother AMEN.....
Although there are many, many circumstances Name another country of opportunity? I have struggled but I never waited for the government to rescue me. There are many life style changes people can make to better themselves and their families. Have we become lazy and failing to innovate ourselves and our lives? I am the only one that can make my life happen and all we have to do is gain the skills and persevere. Except for the infirm and elderly we can all make it happen. You dont need iphones, bling, piercing, tats , cable and expensive threads when there are other priorities. We need to change with the circumstances and have the ability to look down the road. As sure as winter follows summer bad times follow good.
Steve....are YOU kidding? The top 1% don't pay anything NEAR 40% in taxes! Most of them pay around or less than 20% because of all the tax loopholes for capital gains, etc. Unfortunately, the 99% don't have the luxury of hiring top-notch CPA's to find the same loopholes for us, so we pay the full boat when it comes to taxes! I don't know where you're getting all your information, but you are grossly uninformed!!
theboys: Next plan.
Increase minimum wage to something above poverty level, thereby creating new tax payers, and consumers who don't already own everything.
sur thing - I'll increase my minimum wage workers to - what's a livable wage? $42/hour??? - you gonna still stand in line for five minutes waiting for that coffee, which now went up to $13.50 for 8oz. cup, sugar packet and powder cream (extra$)