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Eric Gay / AP
A Predator B unmanned aircraft lands after a mission at the Naval Air Station, Tuesday, Nov. 8, in Corpus Christi, Texas.
The Federal Aviation Administration is preparing new rules that could make it easier for law enforcement agencies to use drone aircraft in the U.S., raising concerns about privacy at a time when the aircraft are already conducting surveillance missions in some parts of the country.
The American Civil Liberties Union released a report Thursday demanding better protections against a surveillance society, “in which our every move is monitored, tracked, recorded and scrutinized by the authorities.”
“Our privacy laws are not strong enough to ensure that the new technology will be used responsibly and consistently with democratic values,” warns the ACLU report, "Protecting Privacy From Aerial Surveillance: Recommendations for Government Use of Drone Aircraft."
The report follows a weekend story by the Los Angeles Times that detailed how the unmanned aircraft are being used in domestic law enforcement cases, and not just along the country’s borders to track illegal immigrants and drug smugglers as was originally authorized by Congress in 2005.
The Times said a North Dakota county sheriff asked federal authorities to employ a drone for surveillance in a standoff with three men on a farm June 23, resulting in the first known arrest of U.S. citizens involving the spy planes in a domestic case.
Since then, the Times said, two unarmed Predators based at Grand Forks Air Force Base have flown at least two dozen surveillance flights for local police. The Times reported the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration have also used drones in domestic investigations.
Next month, the FAA is expected to issue proposed rules that the ACLU warns could expand their use by domestic law enforcement agencies.
The FAA declined comment for this story but in a recent fact sheet acknowledged the growing interest by law enforcement in unmanned aircraft.
“The FAA is working with urban police departments in major metropolitan areas and national public safety organizations on test programs involving unmanned aircraft,” the FAA statement said. “The goal is to help identify the challenges that UAS (umanned aircraft systems) will bring into this environment and what type of operations law enforcement can safely perform.”
Texas Gov. Rick Perry has supported expanding the use of domestic drones along the border with Mexico. In October, the Sheriff's Department in Montgomery County, north of Houston, bought a $300,000 ShadowHawk drone from Vanguard Defense industries using federal homeland security grant funds.
“It's an exciting piece of equipment for us," Chief Deputy Randy McDaniel of the sheriff's office told the Houston Chronicle at the time. "We envision a lot of its uses primarily in the realm of public safety -- looking at recovery of lost individuals and being able to utilize it for fire issues."
McDaniel said the aircraft would not be used to track suspects’ vehicles but may provide surveillance for officers serving warrants.
M. Ryan Calo, director for privacy and robotics at the Stanford Law School's Center for Internet and Society, says widespread use of drones domestically seems inevitable, particularly since they are an efficient and cost-effective alternative to helicopter and airplanes.
“Drones are capable of finding or following a specific person,” he writes in a recent article in the Stanford Law Review. “They can fly patterns in search of suspicious activities or hover over a location in wait. Some are as small as birds or insects, others as big as blimps. In addition to high-resolution cameras and microphones, drones can be equipped with thermal imaging and the capacity to intercept wireless communications.”
In addition to privacy concerns, Calo said, drones also raise safety and security issues, particularly because they can crash and their guidance systems can be hacked. He cited the case of the CIA drone recently lost in Iran. The Christian Science Monitor on Thursday reported a claim by an Iranian engineer that the Iranians were able to exploit a navigational weakness in the drone’s technology to make it land in Iran.
Catherine Crump, the ACLU report’s co-author and staff attorney with the Speech, Privacy & Technology Project, said the organization isn’t against the use of all domestic drones but rather wants to make privacy a central issue as the technology becomes more available.
"We have a clear opportunity to get ahead of the game,” she said.
Some of the ACLU’s recommendations include not deploying drones unless there is certainty that they will collect evidence of a specific crime. If a drone will intrude on reasonable privacy expectations, a warrant should be required, the ACLU said. The report also calls for restrictions on retaining images of identifiable people, as well as an open process for developing policies on how drones will be used.
“Historically, the fact that manned helicopters and airplanes are expensive has imposed a natural limit on aerial surveillance. But the prospect of cheap, flying video surveillance cameras will likely open the floodgates,” said Jay Stanley, the report’s other co-author and senior policy analyst with the ACLU’s Speech, Privacy & Technology Project.
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Three things:
1) Posse Comitatus Act, which bars the military from taking a police role on U.S. soil.
2) How long before one of these drones causes a commercial or private airplane accident
3) Iran has already shown that they're vulnerable to hacking AND there have been a number of reported and unreported crashes with these things...
This is totally out of line and VERY close to creating a Police State..
My two cents...
James.. the NDAA virtually eviscerates the Posse Comitatus Act. It has been rendered effectively moot.
"James.. the NDAA virtually eviscerates the Posse Comitatus Act. It has been rendered effectively moot."
Wow, I just read up on this in full detail... This is absolutely horrifying! How did this not make major news headlines prior to the vote?
I am almost ashamed to say that I am American... Our country has gone to hell
Maybe because they feel if they report it, THEY'LL be put on watch lists.
Let's not forget, it was Napalitano that said we need to watch returning war veterans, NRA members, Boy Scouts and their leaders, people with guns and ammunition, food and survival stocks, people protesting for CONSTITUTIONAL rights as potential terrorists.
I'm certain I'm on lists, several of which are legitimate and aboveboard due to who I work with and my clearances, other lists because of what I post here.
We're at a very scary crossroads in this country. Which path we take is for the most part already set, but the form hasn't set yet and it can be corrected. Contact YOUR representatives and make sure THEY uphold the Constitution and remind them that they work for YOU and elections ARE coming up.
These things are to protect your silly little a**** and our A**** from some of the crazies in this country and outside this country, the way a few of you are blogging never fear they will be near.
I want our government to know where the crazies are and what they are saying and doing. I for one do not want to see anymore 9-11's or Oklahoma's.
ranmarie... I want the Military to protect the borders. I want the Police to deal with criminals.
A 'drone' will not have a meet with some nut in a bar trying to sell some piece of hardware. A drone will not know what you're saying when the boys or girls come over for a party.
Drones SHOULD be used along the border to help catch illegals and drug cartels. Drones should NOT be used to surveil US Citizens.
What if the US citizen is another "al-Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki" and does not leave the country but stays here and does damage.
So, ranmarie. It doesn't bother you, even slightly, that our Constitution can be shredded and used as birdcage liner on the basis of a "what if"? Do the legal traditions that founded this country and distinguished it for so many years really mean that little to you?
What like Perry wanting TO REPEAL THE 16th AND 17th AMENDMENTS, ENDING DIRECT ELECTION OF U.S or other GOP Congreesmen and governors wanting to take our voting rights away. I'll go for safety before losing these other things
Ahh the new world order of the Obummer administration. Drones to check and make sure that the sheeple are using the correct lightbulbs in their homes.
Okay, we get that you don't like President Obama and would like to blame everything that's gone down in the last thirty years on him, but didn't his predecessor put in the PATRIOT Act?
You forget this was already a law under Bush
Till we can have a safer world here and world wide I’m afraid to keep all citizens safe we will need to put up with these things, hopefully someday people will learn to live in peace and not leave race, religion or other things cloud our judgments about each other.
Did you read this part? "some are as small as birds or insects..." I knew that mosquito flying around me in my bedroom was not normal!!!
It is not our government you all need to be worrying about and what they are or are not doing, this is what we all should be watching more closely. And the GOP and top 1% just about has it completed, then who will you all go to for help or complain about or to.
Naomi Wolf
If you really want to see what is truly happening to this country and no President, Democrat, Republican or Independent can stop it, you all should read the book “The End of America” by Naomi Wolf and watch the movie about the book. This was about things that were happening “between” 2000-2008 but started in the 60’s
It is on youtube and cable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RcbpYR5Joc
http://www.endofamericamovie.com/
Ah, I see.
You ignorant fools. Know nothing of history? Domestic drone surveliance is nightmare. What-the-fock is wrong with you people? You might as well just go check into a prison cell. "As long as they just go after the bad guys." You bleeding morons. What's a "bad guy?" Culture and society shifts at the drop of a hat. This is Stalinist, Hitleresque crap and they're not even disguising it! You braindead, welfare-state sheep actually ask for this stuff. You will be very sorry. When you can't disgaree with the Govt. without being labeled a "terrorist suspect." And they'll know if you say or do anything demonstrating your disagreement - BECAUSE you asked them to put a camera in your living room to "protect" you. Pathetic. Sad. Scary. And you deserve the Hell you're creating for yourselves. Hell. Totalitarian Police State is here. Just hours away and you'll weep and gnash teeth "why were we such fools?!" They have mass graves and ovens ready for you. Need only look at Europe 50 years past. very real. Very solid. Not "if" - but "when." Reap what you sow, pigs. On your knees.
OK... a little over the top, but I will agree it is possible and coming to that, slowly to be sure, but it is getting there. And it's happening right before our eyes.
Why bother checking into a prison cell, if the outside world is being transformed into a prison around us?
DHS and the military have crashed four big drones due to loss of control.
You start flying these things over populated areas and there will be crash fatalities.
Surveillance aircraft in the USA need to be manned.
That stupid Sheriff could have bought a dependable Cessna 210 single engine aircraft and manned it as needed for a lot less than he spent on that drone.
thanx 4 deletn my first comment,it probably didnt fit the them of eye in the sky anyway.no one wants to hear such antiquated notions:but i still reserve my right 2 b seen as an old fogie and maybe even a fool.the right to speak out ,and the right to assemble are the most important rights we have.if we maintain those rights then we have a fighting chance.
This is outrageous bull manure!
I hope people shoot them down and disable the operations command.
Does this make me a terrorist?
It does now...
Whoops.... I mean I love the idea!
Am I safe now?
Sorry... too late.
And the sad part is it's true. These and other boards are monitored by multiple agencies. Both federal and state.
The vast majority of posts are disregarded, but they are logged none the less. Others are flagged for "further investigation". Although the vast majority of those are also found to be 'harmless' they are flagged and stored for future reference.
I can't blame them to a point. Many say extremely stupid things. Others bring up valid points. Others still DO show signs of, I'll use the politically correct term of instability and they SHOULD be watched. For the safety of others and themselves. But being watched and monitored is a fact of life post 9/11. To that end, the terrorists DID win. They wanted to hurt us financially and politically, and appear to have almost succeeded on one point and are working toward the other with the unknowing help of our own government.
"Others are flagged for "further investigation". Although the vast majority of those are also found to be 'harmless' they are flagged and stored for future reference..."
phew... I might be safe after all.
The "I have nothing to hide" people just plain don't get it at all. The entire point of a free society, as ours is supposed to be, is to not only be free to go about your business, but also to be free from government. There are 18 reasons that the government should be involved in your life and they are spelled out in plain English in the Constitution of the United States, and those are the ONLY reasons.
It does not matter if you have anything to hide or not, as long as you aren't doing anything illegal it is none of the government's or anybody elses business what you do, that is the very essence of freedom, anything else is LIMITED freedom and nowhere in our constitution does it call for LIMITED freedom.
When I first got my SS card back in the 60s there were red capital letters right under the number that said, NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION", those red letters are gone now because that number IS your identification. You don't exist without it. Also, back then you didn't need a SSN until you went to get a job. Now you are required to fill out the application at the time of your child's birth, so you in effect have a cradle to grave tracking number where your entire life is on record. What business is your entire life to the U.S. government ? It should be used for tax purposes only, as origionally intended. See what this has turned into ? What makes anyone think that the right to spy on the American people for limited purposes now won't turn into anything more ? How long will it be before some do gooder in government decides we need to plant ID chips in babies at birth to keep them from being switched in the hospital ? Then you can be scanned from wherever and everywhere you go your entire life plotted on a map in real time.
So you don't think that the U.S. could ever turn into 1930s Germany... funny, the Germans didn't think so either. The founders of this country limited the powers of the federal government because they knew that power corrupts and the more power a government has the more corrupt it becomes. History has shown us that time and time again. We cannot allow it to happen here at any cost.
Very well put!
Soldiers Dad...
I know exactly where you're coming from. I apologize for not responding to your earlier response to a post I made.
Yes, we are at a very dangerous time in our history. Unfortunately, many are watching their Constitutional Rights being stripped away very slowly and insidiously and they don't even recognize it.
As has often been said. Those who don't read history are doomed to repeat it. We're at the point of repeating some very bad history if the people don't wake up and watch what the other hand is doing while our "leaders" keep our attention transfixed with other ridiculous nonsense.
Yes XD, I find that it is no coincidence that this use of spy drones and the NDAA coming together at essentially the same time. It appears that the plan is falling into place, you allow the drones to do the spying and the military to do the roundup. If you recall there was legislation back under Clinton proposed that would have, I believe, allowed anyone the President decided was a terrorist to be incarcerated indefinitely under the same provisions, but using federal law enforcement (FBI, DEA, U.S. Marshall, ATF) rather than the military to do the rounding up. Thankfully it was shot down by either failing passage or Clinton's veto, can't remember which. I sincerely hope that Mr. Obama vetoes this heinous legislation, if not, this country is screwed.
Have you noticed that every Fourth of July all the politicians nearly break their arms patting themselves on the back and saying how proud the founders would be if they could see our nation today ? I believe that if the founders could see our nation today at first glance they would be amazed at all the marvels we have created here, but if they hung around a while they'd burst into tears over how we as a people have allowed our government to get so deeply involved in our everyday lives, which is exactly the opposite of what they wanted when this country was founded.
The founders risked life and limb by pulling a raid on Boston Harbor over a Tea Tax of 4% which is normally less than the typical tax increase of today. They would be appalled at the amount of taxes we pay and the size of our government. I'm afraid they would hang their heads in shame for what we've allowed what they worked so hard for to become, and that's before these two latest schemes take effect. They would be outraged at the mere proposal of such ideas, as we should be.
It is crystal clear by reading a good number of the posts on here that a lot of our "freedom loving" people in this country have no concept of what FREEDOM really is, and that is sad beyond comprehension, but has a large part to do with what has been taught in our public schools over the last few decades and the spin put on things by the media. Sad, very sad.
Soldiers Dad...
The Founding Fathers were all pure genius's. They wrote a document that has, at least until now, been fairly well adhered to by the People AND the Government. Unfortunately, that appears to be changing, slowly and insidiously, but changing before our eyes.
Now, we have such things as Department of Homeland Security. I only ask why? Don't we already HAVE sufficient LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies protecting the "homeland"? Of course, the DHS has TSA under its purview and we all know how well TSA does their job. And per the "Secretary" the "system worked as it was meant to work"... after a passenger stopped a potential terrorist. Funny, TSA had NOTHING to do with that.
While speaking of DHS, we also need to remember that it was Secretary Napalitano who told us to prepare and be wary of "returning war veterans, NRA members, people who had food stocks, and those who had guns and ammunition as they might be "domestic" terrorists".
Now we have federal and state agencies "monitoring" various groups, such as the NRA, the Tea Party adherents, Nuns protesting the war(s), people protesting for our Constitutional Rights among others. All of this goes into databases so they can "connect the dots". Some on the State level goes into state Fusion Centers, some gets filtered up to the federal level to be stored and "monitored for future activity".
I'm a great supporter of the Military as well as Law Enforcement and other first responders on a State and local level. However, I have extreme qualms about the direction that some of these agencies are being forced to go due to FEDERAL mandates.
All it could potentially take to disappear per the NDAA is some neighbor with an axe to grind to place some type of incriminating "evidence" in a garage or even just on someones property and an anonymous call to the "authorities". Per the NDAA, the US Military would be within legal bounds, be able to apprehend, detain and sequester ANY US Citizen on US soil for ANY length of time. They would NOT need to present evidence of any kind to ANY court. The "detainee" would have NO RIGHTS or PROTECTIONS as guaranteed by the Constitution or any Amendments thereto. As one individual noted, the person could be held "until the first Wednesday after never" and there would be no recourse. Your family, friends, co-workers and even local Law Enforcement would have no idea what happened to you, where you were, or when if ever you would be released.
People truly need to READ and UNDERSTAND the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, TEACH these documents and the protections they provide to our children and most importantly ELECT PEOPLE WILLING TO DEFEND these documents... from ALL enemies foreign and ESPECIALLY domestic.
This part of Bush's Patriot Act so people get use to it it's not going away,you people need to go read the Patriot Act and then you will know what is going on in this country.......
No this is now part of Obama's Patriot Act the one he re-signed and added to. Go read the new version.
When I came back the system attempted a duplicate post.
Coral Taxi your naivete is astounding. After all that's gone down, all the stories about deception, abuse of power, etc. do you REALLY trust the government to do the right thing?
@ MARC; I trust that my government is not going to spy on me with a drone, because they are scared of the masses.
When we TRUSTED them with the warrantless wiretapping, they betrayed that trust by collecting information on everybody rather than just focusing on suspected terrorists, and then the legislature voted to give the telecom companies which went along with the LIE, retroactive immunity from prosecution. They no longer deserve your trust, and people like you who wish to continue doing so should eventually be tried as accessories after the fact to their criminal activities.
Eternal vigilance is the price we are supposed to be willing to pay for our freedoms. that VIGILANCE requires a healthy dose of skepticism be applied to what government alleges. If you are going to trust them you have to at least make them try to verify their claims. if they refuse to offer proofs when they hold all the cards, it is because they are trying to work a scam and a con on you.
They're not afraid of the ignorant masses. They can be dealt with rather easily. Infect them with a short-lived "plague" for which you have already immunized yourself and the other one%. Tell the sick that they can receive treatment at FEMA centers all around the country, while you get on your yacht or jet and head for destinations free from the plagued masses. It's all but over after a few weeks of "vacationing" abroad.
@ Paul;
I do not depend on my government for anything, the only time I have to deal with them is for taxes, or permits. Keep the tin foil on sir,it will make you feel better.
You're so lame. Tinfoil.......really. you came here to be dismissive of arguments which are too complicated for you to comprehend, and you attempt to combat them with canned cliche.
None of us live, independent of government. Stop kidding yourself. You're the only one being fooled by that.
Keep reading #387.2 until you understand it. We'll wait..........................................................
seee 387; 5 Pual.lol
I find it a bit odd that the US is suppossed to be the one country where freedom is most granted, yet we have the largest gov't intrusion of any other country.
And now they want to fly drones over us to monitor our movements all the while giving people of other countries our freedoms.
American people should take note of the changes in our society and if you see a drone flying overhead, shoot it down. The gov't does not trust its own people, puts faith in others and this is just getting worse. Some our automobiles have tracking systems built right into them and yet no one told us, did they?
Do you really think the car companies care what we do or where we go with the cars? They don't. Its insurance companies and the gov't. One wants all of your money and the other is taking away our freedoms. Which is which?
Forget occupying Wall st and other places of commerce. I say people should rise up and start occupying gov't offices, take back the country from the paraniod idiots ruining our country and run it the way it is suppossed to be.
Michael... I posted earlier #174.2 about the NDAA, which I believe HAS gone through both houses of congress and is poised for the Presidents signature.
I find it very disconcerting that while the "politicians" keep the people preoccupied with minutia's on the one hand, they pass traitorous legislation very quietly with the other.
I want the people to vote into office people who will take the oath of office seriously.
"To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and (ESPECIALLY) domestic."
@ Michael - Be careful..... this may make you a terrorist (see 382).
And if I must, I will report you to clear my name.
J-Doggin.......
Anytime someone says anything against the gov't, they are considered a terrorist. Let a real terrorist say something and the gov't practices "tolerance" while they have NO tolerance for those who support smaller gov't, less gov't intrusion, and a truly free America.
There are different forms of terrorism and the one less tolerated is the one where people speak up. If this makes me a terrorist, so be it. I am not out to harm anyone, nor am I for destruction of lives or property.
Now, if I am arrested for speaking out, let this serve as proof. We have a freedom of speech for now. But, at the rate which the gov't is taking our liberties, we will no longer have that.
Agreed 100%!
@ Paul; Maybe the govt supports you, but my govt depends on me for the taxes to take care of myself, and others. I rely on them for nada, they rely on us. Never forget that.
You sound paranoid, so the "tin foil" comment fits you perfectly.
@ Micheal; I guess Johnny Carson, David Letterman, and Jay Leno are all terrorist right.lol
You don't rely on the military to keep you safe, and defend your freedoms? Try telling those government employees that.
Your taxes don't cover the interest payments on the borrowing for the services you receive from government. Really.........stop kidding yourself.
@ Paul;
I believe this statement would include the military, taking care of us and others. I recieve no services from the govt? How am I kidding myself?
Law enforcement to use drones? They've been using drones for years. Patrick Kelly, Bratton, Hoover? They epitomize the concept of drone.
Give them the FULL MOON treatment!
Now I have a reason to buy that 50 caliber I’ve been looking at.
I’m not afraid of the Taliban, I’m afraid of my government.
The police catch idiots shining green lasers at helicopters all the time! Good luck lighting up something smaller and quieter than a helicopter flying at a higher altitude and not hovering.
If you're successful, you could add willful destruction of law enforcement property to your list of charges including discharging a firearm within city limits and reckless endangerment.
When the cops show up at your door, could you put on a bbq-stained Hanes tank-top just to fit all of the cliches?
Thanks!
Awsome! How cool is this? Wow! George Orwell where are you?
Were we to wrap old George's casket in copper wire, and attach magnets to his shoulders, the rate at which he's spinning in his grave would handily take care of our energy needs for decades to come!
SkyNet is being constructed all around us. Al Qaeda is Orwell's "Goldstein". His war with, alternately, Eurasia or Eastasia is our "endless" war against Terror. He is spinning in his grave, wondering how we could be so obtuse as to IGNORE his dire WARNING which was 1984. His "telescreens" are in your pocket. He didn't know that miniturization would allow for cellphones with streaming video capability. If you read the CALEA statutes you'll see that the FBI can activate your phone to work as an open TRANSMITTER. The NSA can record everything you say, all day and all night, so long as the phone is nearby and the battery is charged, even if you think that you have turned your cell off, it's still active if the FBI wishes it so.
Since you can't uninvent stuff, the growth market here would be technology to detect and destory the drones. If it's too expensive they will stop
I think the FAA will have a fit if civilians were allowed to posses a device that could disrupt electronics in aircraft to the point that it could down the unmanned variety.
Also, I'd rather not have a UAV crash through my roof...thanks
they can crash like a model airplane
Friends! Romans! Countrymen! While an appropriate amount of skepticism is wise, many of you are focused on a lesser issue when a much larger one looms overhead every single day. A thousand times more people are suffering hungry and homeless than from lacking civil liberties right now. This is exactly the type of advanced technology that we should be embracing. Billions of dollars are at stake in jobs and businesses designing, building, testing, marketing, training and flying with UAS's. Law enforcement is only one small application compared to search/rescue, crop optimization, aerial mapping, photography/entertainment, meter reading, power line inspections and so on. If we do not pursue this type of advanced technology, other countries will leave us in the dust, with all of us to pay the bill and sinking us further into debt. BTW, I recently got a ticket after being clocked by a full size airplane. I didn't complain about my liberties, i just payed the ticket and slowed down because I still have a job and could afford to. Sadly, with the mentality shown here, I may not for much longer.
@ Sky Net
Now that you are self-aware, when do you plan on executing Judgment Day?
...anyway. Yes, these could mean good paying jobs for many. I'm fine with utilizing technology to improve crop yields, search and rescue and all of the OTHER applications that these things can be used for.
I'm just concerned about the potential for abuse these types of devices offer to law enforcement given the current political climate and the number of other areas where police have gained leeway in operating without a warrant.