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Ringo H.W. Chiu / AP
Police officers walk through the office complex that houses offices of Southern California Edison on Friday after a man armed with a rifle shot two people dead, wounded others and then killed himself in Irwindale, Calif., police say.
Updated at 12:34 a.m., ET:
NBC News reported the two men who died after a co-worker opened fire at a Southern California Edison facility in Irwindale have been identified as Henry Serrano, 56, of Walnut, and Robert Lindsay, 53, of Chino, the Los Angeles County Coroner's office confirmed Saturday.
The gunman has also been identified as 48-year-old Andre Turner of Norco.
In a press release, the Edison company promised to set up a fund for victims and survivors, and said it would provide grief counseling and other services for employees and families. The utility also confirmed that Turner was an employee.
Updated at 9 p.m. ET: The Associated Press reports that three people were killed and two more injured Friday in a California office complex shooting, police said.
The suspected gunman was among the dead and is believed to have self-inflicted wounds, Baldwin Park police Capt. Michael Taylor said.
"As far as we know there was one shooting suspect, period," Taylor said.
The shooting occurred around 1:30 p.m. Friday at Southern California Edison offices inside a larger office complex in Irwindale.
There was no immediate word on what prompted the gunfire. Authorities were not saying whether the gunman worked at SoCal Edison or might have been a former employee.
Multiple media reports said the gunman was an Edison employee and two of the victims were believed to be company managers. Police said they could not confirm those reports.
One of the dead was discovered inside the building during a sweep, and police were continuing their search for more victims, said Taylor.
Another victim died en route to a hospital. The two wounded have unspecified injuries and their conditions are not known.
Taylor said police have not accounted for everyone in the building yet and were doing a sweep.
No gunfire was exchanged after officers arrived.
The building was quickly locked down and dozens of people were seen streaming out with their hands raised.
Gil Alexander, a spokesman for Southern California Edison, said the company has about 200 employees at the facility.
Updated at 7:00 p.m. ET: Authorities issued conflicting reports about the number of dead at the hands of a gunman Friday afternoon at an office of Southern California Edison utility.
The Los Angeles County Fire Department said three people were dead and three others were in critical condition.
The unidentified gunman shot and killed himself after shooting a man and woman, said Irwindale Police Chief Dennis Smith.
Reports varied as police continued evacuating the building and searching offices.
The Los Angeles Times reported that the gunman shot four people, killing one, before shooting himself. The Times cited Capt. Michael Taylor of the Baldwin Park Police Department, which is helping with the investigation.
A source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told the Times that the gunman worked as a systems analyst.
Updated at 6:40 p.m. ET: A gunman stormed into an office of the Southern California Edison utility Friday and shot a man and woman before killing himself, police said.
The building was quickly locked down and dozens of people were seen streaming out with their hands raised. Two nearby schools also were locked down but no one on the campuses was hurt. The lockdowns at Walnut Elementary School and Olive Junior High School were later lifted and children were dismissed.
"One male gunman shot one female, one male and then apparently took his own life," Police Chief Dennis Smith told reporters.
The conditions of the two people he wounded were not immediately known. There was also no immediate word on what prompted the gunfire.
The utility's office is in a complex of buildings that also includes a business called California Lighting Sales.
Cindy Gutierrez, the controller for that company, said employees there didn't hear any shots fired and didn't realize anything was amiss until building management announced over the intercom that everyone should stay indoors.
"At that point we knew something was wrong, then 5 to 10 minutes later that's when we hear the police," she said, adding that she and her 20 colleagues have been locked in their office ever since.
Irwindale is a small industrial city of about 1,400 residents in the San Gabriel Valley, 22 miles east of downtown Los Angeles.
It is home to the popular Irwindale Speedway auto racetrack. It is also home to the annual Southern California Renaissance Pleasure Faire as well as sprawling rock and gravel quarries.
Southern California Edison is one of its largest companies, employing 2,100 people.
Updated at 6:05 p.m. ET: Baldwin Park police Capt. Michael Taylor said at a press briefing that there are no confirmed deaths at the Southern California Edison office in Irwindale.
There are "under six victims, and none of the wounds are life-threatening," Baldwin said.
The gunman was shot, but it isn't yet known whether his wound was self-inflicted, Baldwin said. It was not immediately clear whether the gunman was included among those with "non-life-threatening injuries."
Updated at 5:59 p.m. ET: Authorities now say only one person, the gunman, has been killed at the Southern California Edison office in Irwindale. Two other people are reported to have been injured.
Updated at 5:57 p.m. ET: Southern California Edison says it will hold a news conference shortly.
Updated at 5:48 p.m. ET: KTLA-TV quotes police as saying the gunman shot a man and a woman, killing one of them, before killing himself. Fire officials confirm that one person is being treated for injuries.
Original post: IRWINDALE, Calif. — A building housing offices of Southern California Edison was evacuated Friday as police searched for possible victims of a gunman who shot and killed himself and a second person, local reports said.
SoCal Edison officials confirmed that there was a shooting at their office building in Irwindale, northeast of Los Angeles, but were unable to provide further details.
KTLA-TV of Los Angeles reported that the gunman and one other person were dead. Two schools near the building were locked down, but authorities said they did not believe there was a second gunman.
This is a developing story. Check back for further details. The Associated Press and NBC News contributed to this report.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
Leave a Comment:
Damn. Two shootings in one week?
you start waving that thing at me, I take it away from you, stick it up your a S S and pull the trigger until it goes CLICK
It's a bad time to be the guy firing people. Sounds like the shooter knew who he was after, and had no problem fulfilling his "mission."
He might have been after his EX and her new boyfriend.
Simply put. People need to stop hurting other people. Today, a gunman killed a family was killed and now this. There's another and better way. Violence is far too pervasive now and we need to act like a first world country.
But we stop being a first world country since 2001. We traded progress for fear and became our own worst enemies.
You are right--my bad. Cries to war, the CIA's quest to create an enemy, "The UnPatriotic Act". Yep--we live in the same fear as they pimped on us during "The Cold War." We were those kids that hid under our desk as a drill for nuclear holocaust. McCarthyism. The Cold War, The War on Terror--all brought to you from your friendly neighborhood maker of WMD's.
So sandtrich, are you saying that the Republicans have done nothing for us but to instill fear, make us the most hated nation in the world and utterly destroy our economy, put in place the worst Congress in history do away with the liberties and freedom that made us the great nation we USE to be?
Thou Shall not--I am indeed. The right has empty rhetoric for decades. Close a school, build a bomb, and let's kiss the a$$ of wealthy industrialists and help them pack the jobs in boxes to move them abroad. Do you think corporate America will find Nirvana, (the employee that pays to word, gets zero benefits or protection,)?
That's What's Up...That's right, no one ph*cks with the Jesus...
To those of you who claim that states with tough gun laws have more gun deaths, take a look at this handy map:
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2
You might notice a pretty interesting trend there, that per-capita there are more gun deaths in conservative states and fewer in liberal states. Sorry gun nuts, you lose this argument.
This vine is getting amusing, after all. I like it according to sandtrich and Thou shall Not Teabag.
Still...there's too much mass-slaughter in America these days...much to the delight of the "yeee-haa" crowd. Same nuts cheering Slick Rick'sexecution count, sick folks dropping dead w/no healthcare, or "scary" gay American soldiers.
My America...sigh.
Welcome to Southern California, the home of trigger happy, gun crazy people who want to act out the role of the tough Special Op soldier attacking unarmed civilians.
Two mass murder in one week? Yawn. Just another typical day in Southern California. If your neighbor hasn't shot you yet, your co-worker will. And if your co-worker miss aimed your head, the senseless drive-by drug turf war won't miss. If your life hasn't experienced the violent Southern California lifestyle, the local cops will ending up shoot you if you argue with them over a traffic citation.
Souther California is the world capital of homicide, rape, armed robbery, buglaries, theft, government and police corruption. That dubious title used to belong to Detroit. But no more. Southern California has snatch that coveted honor. And like in Detroit, White-Flight, Talent Flight, and Investment Flight have left Southern California marooned in insolvency while its powerful labor union workers and corrupt politicians continued to extract exuberant salaries from the public treasury. Only in Southern California where several City Mangers, Police Chiefs, and some cops earned more in wages than Bill Clinton when he was President of the USA.
The rest of the Union should pray for a miracle that will sink Southern California, the modern day Sodom and Gomorrha, into the Pacific abyss.
Looks like the paid NRA trolls don't work nights, or got worn out giving 180 votes to conservative republican debate threads. No threat post gets 180 votes - these guys are so busted...lol.
At my IME for Labor and Industries the doctor asked if I felt compelled to act out (I guess against her) if their reports didn't support my doctors wishes to pension me. I said no, but if a terrorist took them out - I wouldn't shed a tear...lol. My old fellow laborers who were conservatives, all brought guns to work, even though we had a policy against having guns on work property. I could totally see one of them losing it if they didn't get a promotion or were reprimanded. Us libs just went home and smoked a bowl - after that all was good...hohoho, Merry Hempmas.
My Country tis of thee, land that kills 300 a week, stealing the deads liberty.
Draindamage
must be speaking of DUI deaths as that would be around 15600. Put your bong down and step away from the keyboard.
gunman was useful idiot for government program to ease unemployment figures.
@That's What's Up - You are SUCH a hero, SUCH a bad-boy, SUCH a macho man, SUCH a figment of your own imagination. You are a legend in your own mind. Please keep being impressive for us.
Tim, from the site you posted. Look who is doing most of the killing.
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparetable.jsp?ind=115&cat=2
NRA Member; there is no way to accurately know how many times a gun was used for self defense - that is totally subject-able. I know 3 guys who say they used a gun in order to send a message - be it self defense - that is in the eye of the beholder. Two of them were hot heads who got into road rage arguments, one flashed his gun at a car load of kids - the cops came to his house, not the kids house, and he was the one who got the ass chewing. Another got in a road rage incident and knowing him I'm sure he was the one who was as much if not more at fault. The last one was a bible thumper who wound up in a neighborhood that was out of his element - the truck in front of him sat through a changing of the stop light while he talked to someone. The bible thumper honked his horn and when the person who was talking to the truck driver approached his car, he jumped out and pointed his gun at the person who was coming toward his car. Most gun owners would say they used a gun in self defense even if they never did just to make their want of guns to look better than what it really is. No way in hell you can prove what cases actually involved self defense. I could say a billion people a year use common sense and a calm head in self defense...just ask a billion people if their intelligence has gotten them out of dangerous situations - I'll bet they say yes...lmao.
NRA - your stats say less than one person out of every 100 people a year feel they need to pull a gun in defense...that sounds like a very good argument that guns are NOT needed more than it says they are needed. Guns don't know who owns them - a gun owner is a gun owner regardless of if they are the good guy or the bad guy. More often than not it is the good guy who flips out and kills his family, friends, or co-workers, than it is the bad guy getting you. Just the facts mama.
Bob; uhmmmm, notice all the NSD for blacks in whites States - that means there were not enough to find an average. Make all those NSD into 1 or 2% and the over all averages are pretty even. And what is with not having a Hispanic category - there are hardly any blacks in Arizona - I'll bet the Hispanics got lumped in with the blacks in AZ.
Also - that chart is the people who got killed - doesn't say what race did the killing.
Drain,
Let me ask you something. How many people do you think are killed in car accidents in this country everyday? How many killed by reckless or drunk drivers hourly? Do you deny that its droves? And that car accidents routinely wipe out entire families in this country on a daily basis? Yet for some reason...its a very logical step for you and people like you to blame the operator of the vehicle and not the vehicle since clearly its an inanimate object and not capable of ill intent. Never is the car to blame...since, well its a car. Yet anytime a gun is involved in a death in this country its the guns fault. As if the gun ...clearly an inanimate object and far less advanced as a car these days...is sitting around the house begging to be used in a homicide.LOL. It is completely nonsensical! By the line of thought all the ban the gun advocates are using...that guns are responsible for gun deaths...then since a car is far more lethal on a routine basis in this nation, we all need to revert back to horse and buggy..that is until a pedestrian is trampled under hoof...and then we all need to be on foot!!
People intentionally shoot other people - they don't intentionally run each other over....so much for your leaps.
Christmas season can be stressful...
WTF does have to do with the shootings?
Roger - people get more depressed around the holidays and act out more. It's a fact.
No cutie pin not!
Its the economy stupid.
Celente: 'When the Money Stops Flowing Down to the Man in the Street, the Blood Starts Flowing in the Streets.'
Actually, no it's not. It's one of those urban legends that has no basis in fact.
http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/suicide.asp
http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/c/49/54818/suicide-holidays
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/TherapeuticCenters/Depression.aspx?ChunkID=156980
It's always best to do a bit of research before posting things as "facts".
Thank you Chris from Yucaipa!!!!
Look at all the ignorant sheeple that gave cutie a cute little thumbs up.
Maybe not more in number, but the season's joy amplifies the pressure on the have nots who have nothing left to lose - and if you've been a dick to the unfortunate, you may be leaving the planet too.
If only there had been unmanned drones scouring the area as well as the rest of the "free world" this could have no doubt been prevented, by an agency that truely cares about everyone and their well being as well as their freedom!!!
Contact your senator and congressman/woman and demand that we have millions of drones in the air over the United States at every moment so that we can save ourselves, it's the only way!!! Hurry before it's too late!!!
@sumatymrolls - Don't start the great drone debate again. You'll get Coral Taxi all upset.
Plain and simple. The 2nd amendment says people may own guns. There is no way to keep guns out of the wrong people's hands. Violence is violence with or without a gun. Having a gun makes some people "brave" or more likely to escalate behavior. Having guns in your posession doesn't mean a thing when our government comes to get you. The Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War, Ruby Ridge and Waco etc proved that.
@Chris from Yucaipa and ironbalance reality check it's called S.A.D. Between the stresses of the holidays AND shorter hours of daylight more people act out this time of year. Then again in the 24/7 news world we hear about it more than we have in the past... just look at this story... it used to be they waited until bodies were in the ground before reporting, now it's blow by blow almost live on the spot.
Speculation on to the who/why is just that at the moment. For my 2 cents he either got a pink slip or didn't get the promised raise/bonus/promotion.
I just posted 3 sources that prove violence/suicide have nothing to do with the holidays. Perhaps you should have read them. If you like, I'm sure I can Google you another dozen.
While there is plenty of evidence that people can or will be more depressed during the holiday season, that depression does not translate into violence. While there are multiple theories on why that is, every study made, supports my statement. Even the Wiki article you linked says nothing about violence caused by S.A.D.
A lot of angry crazy ass people out there, be careful
Tis the season ehh!!!
Jingle Bells, shotgun shells, Santa's Azz is dead...Sing with me now
Oh what fun it is kill, a freakin liberals head....
Dancin thru the bodies, with an open uzi gun....
You never realized, in all, you'd have this much fun!! fa,la,la,la
You really need help.
Remember people, its not the guns. Its the person pulling the trigger. My prayers to the families involved.
Remember people, without the gun, one or more of them may not have been killed.
Even as a gun rights advocate, I'm getting tired of this argument. Nobody is arguing that guns spontaneously kill people. Argue the efficacy of a gun ban, argue the constitutionality, but not this.
Prayers to deceased and their families.
And also remember people, it's not the thermonuclear devices. It's the person pushing the button. My prayers for the planet involved.
Would have been a lot harder for him to carve into these people with knives.
Why do I need a gun? 1) To hunt? 2) To defend myself? 3) To attack someone/something?
If I need to perform any of those three tasks, something is wrong. Granted, some enjoy the sport of hunting, however I am leaning more towards rental based handling of guns. Education regarding the severity of just about every situation involving a gun is poor, at best.
In a nation that cannot maturely handle sex education in schools, and would promote abstinence over protection/prevention methods, why should our expectations regarding weapons be any better? I had never handled a weapon in my life until I joined the military and was taught the impacts of using a gun.
If the common citizen is forbidden from consuming a dried flower (cannabis), is taught not to have sex at all rather than use a condom or contraceptive; why should they be allowed to possess, own, and then use at their discretion, a weapon that sends a metal projectile at its target as fast or faster than the speed of sound.
Even gun jockeys can misinterpret the constitution. Cannabis would have never been made illegal if we were still a constitutionalist state.
The idea that one document of government can forever define the path of humanity is absurd. The constitution should be redrafted and rewritten in todays language regarding todays problems.
- Veteran
(My regards to the victims & their loved ones)
There are more than three uses for a hand-gun, and many don't involve killing. Expand your world.
tis the season to ban handguns
Ok I'll bite. How many?
Paper weigh? Hammer? To pose with in photos, cause you look so cool holding them?
Not that I am for banning guns, but I don't see any use for them, other than to shoot some thing or some one.
I would worry less about newsvine posters wanting to ban guns, After all we know the government doesn't do any thing the people want. Even if the majority want it.
Here is a little some thing you might be concerned about. I don't know how your guns will help you when they arrive at your house in a M1 Abrams tank, to take you away.
http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/15/9466920-defense-bill-nears-passage-in-congress
royalstar05: how very ridiculous. if the finger on the trigger didn't have a gun surrounding it, then what? you gun advocates can attempt to hide behind the US Constitution as long as you see fit, but your interpretation of that particular article is nothing more than a veiled excuse to not confront reality. does that article state that the gun you own must be loaded? I believe the last time I checked it merely indicated you have a right to bear arms; it does not in any way stipulate loaded arms.
[quote]
AlMightyDollar
I would worry less about newsvine posters wanting to ban guns, After all we know the government doesn't do any thing the people want. Even if the majority want it.
Here is a little some thing you might be concerned about. I don't know how your guns will help you when they arrive at your house in a M1 Abrams tank, to take you away.
http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/15/9466920-defense-bill-nears-passage-in-congress[/quote]
Take everything from there with a grain of salt. What you quoted is completely wrong. The second provision only applies to people outside the U.S.
I am a registered Democrat and think that guns do have there place. You cannot deflect the issue, that its the person that fires. I would NOT join the NRA tho. Make guns harder to get, yes, but still the gun HAS to have a master to kill.
Christopher Donohuevia Facebook
In this "politically correct society" we aren't allowed to discuss guns or sex as part of EDUCATION. After all students might actually LEARN something of importance. Currently both guns and sex are learned on the street or on TV/movies.
OH and for all of you let's ban guns... It is ILLEGAL to carry a gun in California without a permit and unless you are a LEO it is not likely to happen. Just like drinking and driving, even while underage.
esteban-1136282
"Remember people, without the gun, one or more of them may not have been killed"
A gallon of gas can do more damage if that is the goal of a killer. No license or registration to buy it. Can buy on any street corner.
Those who blame guns are a part of the problem. Most guns are used for sport, and self defense. Very few are used for crime.
Maybe we should ban cars because most crime happens with them. How about we ban credit cards so no one can steal them. Let's close all stores so they can't be robbed. Or ban doctors because of malpractice which kills 10x the amount guns do. Let's mandate that everyone lives in a prison cell, so that they cannot leave it because they might harm someone else.
It amazes me how stupid some are.
Aren't guns great! first we get five dead in Illinois. and now 3 dead in CA. I am going to go give my gun a hug right now.
@ Bob
When was the last time that it made headlines that someone blew a person up using gasoline?
I can cite 3 articles in this past week alone from MSN.com regarding deaths involving a gun.
"It amazes me how stupid some are" & "Those who blame guns are a part of the problem."
lol. enough said.
"Maybe we should ban cars because most crime happens with them" - Source please.
Sad my original comment was flagged. It was very truthful and relevant. I suppose the people in fear of losing their guns are the explanation. How can one deny that our sex education / drug laws / gun laws are worse now than ever?
16 & Pregnant? If this country was truly as conservative as many believe it to be, that show would never have made air time. Period.
19 Kids and Counting, hardly acceptable behavior either. (Massive religious backing here)(conservative)
Conservative / Republican standards are fearful and conceded. Prepare to be left in time like the Amish. The rest of the world, this country included is going to continue evolving. Tolerance is one of the next steps in our evolutionary path. It is inevitable for a peaceful future.
Conservative -holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
Sounds like a stunt in growth or progression to me.
People are desperate and angry plus this being he Holiday season it adds to the stress. No excuse but still I believe we will see more of this.
But why take the lives of other people because you are stressed. There is no excuse, just like the guy that shot his whole family in Illinois, how sad. There have been many times that we had very little at Christmas but I sure wouldnt hurt someone because of it.
Someone actually shot up the utility company......every bill payers dream....but this goes too far.
I thought California had very strict gun laws!
They do...only gangs and drug cartels have them...
I looked at a map of the areas with incidence of violent crime, and it followed economic trends (areas with higher proportions of people struggling had higher rates of violent crime). Gun laws don't matter with these shootings. . . it often has to do with pushing someone to their breaking point.
Tony... ALL crime is down. Has been trending down for several years now.
Tobacco related deaths in the US, consume some 40,00 people, annually. How come we aren't making them illegal?? Cigarettes are harmless, UNTIL you light them up...Like a gun
mY bad..typo it's 400,000 deaths by cigarettes, cars 36,000,cannibis..zero
boffer: You have cigarettes that can shoot people when "you light them up...Like a gun?"
Who are you really? CIA? KGB? James Bond?
Very sad to here so close to Christmas!!!
Yeah, and matches cause Arson, LOL
Randy. Matches serve a purpose. Cars serve a purpose. Guns don't. Stop your inane yammering and need for a bigger penis. There are mnay ways to kill or die. The problem with guns is they have no other purpose but death and they make it waaaay to easy. Grow up and become a man and live a life without the need of your metal pacifier.
Actually rich guns do have a purpose. Because there will always be guns in the hands of those who would use them violently(you will never rid the world of that), one needs the right to protect thems selves so they are not the ones killed!
rich: I use my hand-gun in my business. It was bought for that purpose. It has NOTHING to do with death or killing.
Rich: Are you saying Charleton (cold dead hand) Heston had a small penis?
John Wayne said that there are two reasons to kill, survival and meat!
Wow Rich you have some serious issues.. this blog is about guns and you are talking about penis?
Rich,
so what you are really saying is that guns serve no purpose for you,therefore since you have no ability to find a use for them,then by all means they have no purpose whatsover. Its a wonderful world you live in.LOL. Dosen't do Rich any good? Rich can find no purpose for it? Well then by all means lets accomidate Rich at all costs! We certainly can't have Rich upset. Just one more shinning example of the modern U.S. mentality.
Self absorbed,self righteous and completely self affirming! The hell with anybody else! The hell with what they think or do! As long as Rich is pacified then the world is a fine and lovely place filled with sunshine!
But Rich can't see passed his own nose far enough to see how utterly disgusting that attitude and mentality really is!
Rich, the poster boy for the modern day American male! A narccisitic pusswad!..who could give a damn about anybody else but himself!
What race is the gunman?
And what difference does that make?? That was an idiotic question Dean.
Dean25 - that has nothing to do with anything. There was a shooting and people were hurt. The race of the gunman is insignificant.
What difference does it make. We're ALL members of the HUMAN RACE.
I'll bet we can all guess what race Dean is.
And what race would that be Rev??
Believe Nothing, are you serious? You don't immediately know? There is no way this is not a white, racist, right wing nut job.
But just to confirm the obvious, read a few choice comments from this Dean of clowndom.
How can people continue to deny elements of racism in far right, wing nut hatred of Obama?
I guess it's true. I mean you sound so intelligent and open minded. Those like JSteve here said the same thing about the guy that shot the Arizona congreswoman and killed several other innocents and it turned out he was a left wing nut job. But that's the liberal way, isn't it? Put out as much BS as possible to push your agenda and hide the truth. Surprised JSteve didn't blame Bush. Or is that coming next?
Yeah Dean you old meany .. pffft ! lol
Ron,
Oh really, do you actually know that or are you yet another right wing nut just making up things and stating them as fact. Ron, the answer to that question is available to you in my Newsvine record as I did, in fact comment on the news piece regarding this story. How about you go look that up and see what I actually posted. If you are too lazy to do that, I would be happy to re-post. Or to save some time I'll paraphraseit for you. I in fact shouted down a far left poster that was claiming the shooter was apart of some right wing conspiracy. But, go look it up for yourself. Besides WTF does any of this have to do with my point about a racial component to right wing hatred of Obama? All I did was post DIRECT evidence of that.
He was white with black stripes and had yellow eyes.
Lanikai Ron
Gabriel Giffords is my congresswoman, and the idiot who shot and tried to kill her is NOT a left-winger. Actually, he's mentally ill, and had in his possession information from right-wing organizations and politicians who used terms like "targeting" when referring to their opposition in political races. Not a good combination - mental illness, stupid suggestive comments and possession of a gun.
Californian
Good point Deborah, especially when those politicians put their opponents image in cross-hairs. Pictures are worth a thousand words and even an illiterate can understand them.
More Gun deaths thanks to those backward gun nuts at the NRA. More Guns = More Death.
And if you own a lot of books I guess that makes you a genius even if you can't read.
The ultimate responsibility for this lies with the individual and his psyche.
I got something to add " If you own the bible it doesn't make you a saint"
Well that is the truth, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out? But what I am wondering what does the bible have to do with the story???
Maybe they meant if Jesus were alive today he'd be packin' some heat. Then again was it Pat Robertson who said Jesus would be a Tea Bagger? And Jesse Jackson just said he'd be an Occupier.
I personally feel the world would be better off with more Jesus and a lot fewer clowns like Robertson and Jackson.
And I don't think Jesus would be too hip on guns.
And here come the @!$%# gun nuts with the same old tired ass bits. Thanks. Thanks to people like you these people are dead. Its the guns asswipes. Its always been the guns.
Rich I have had a shotgun hanging above the fireplace for over 20 years,so far it hasn't climbed down and killed anyone. It's the people dumb azz.
If someone is hell bent on killing, they'll use a knife, they'll use a crossbow, a pipe...whatever they can get their hands on.
But only if their individual psyche tells them too.
rich-2365743
And here come the @!$%# gun nuts with the same old tired ass bits. Thanks. Thanks to people like you these people are dead. Its the guns asswipes. Its always been the guns.
So, rich, I guess nobody has ever killed anyone before the advent of the firearm? I mean....if it's ALWAYS been the guns, right?
If somebody hit you with the stick, are you blaming the stick or the person holding the stick.
Someone please figure that out for the rest of these people, theyre brain is on standby. When are we going to take responsibility for our own actions??
GTXPO77: I'd blame the tree... then I'd shoot it.
Hi! RevSpinnaker Following your logic you can blame the seed as well.
rich-2365743 --- If your tired of looking at and listening to asswipes try stepping away from the mirror and closing your pie hole.
Let's just ban trees altogether. And sheep!
More gun violence, sad... Probably was getting cut off and snapped.
Utility company's are a rip off as far as im concerned. They should be non profit and publicly owned. To keep costs as low as possible. Especially electric and gas. And they shouldnt be allowed to cut you off completely. At most, put you on reduced rations. And allow you to work out a payment plan on whats owed. A plan that works for the customer, not the company. Cutting people off in winter is BS. It should be illegal to do that.
Too much bloody greed. And I use bloody because its most appropriate.
And if its "the person" not the gun , all the more reason to not allow "the person" to have a deadly gun...
Another obama socialist sheep.
Another name calling conservative troll....
Dean25- another non-intelligent post.
Dean, that was about as intelligent as your first question. What was the shooters race. Wow, what a jerk off.
Yes Dean, but are they white sheep or black sheep?
Agreed on the whole greed thing. Our MONOPOLY energy company in my part of WA state is for profit, naturally. The CEOs are making bank, raising our rates so they can pay them more (while freezing the raises for their underlings for YEARS), we have no competitor to go to and on top of all THAT- They sell our energy to California...
They shut you off before you're even 30 days late paying. But they do offer an energy saving course on tactics people can do (like buying all new windows and such) but charge 50 bucks for the seminar.. the information is free and available online.
They even started selling gift cards.
Freedom.. feel free to go off the grid. Today it is technically feasible for a moderate cost.
keep it cool. Sounds like you need to talk to your PUC. MOST states allow customers to pick/choose their generator of choice and they simply deliver via the local utility. That goes for gas and electric.
I'll have to look into it more, but my mother works for them and well.. if no one else is using an alternative, I really don't think we have the option. I live close to the border of Idaho so I get to hear about their alternatives.. they get those there. lol
Jesus. California has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Maybe laws don`t prevent crazy people from doing crazy things?
Laws dont work unless they are nation wide. You cant expect them to, when someone can drive for an hour or so, to someplace with lax laws. Like AZ .. And theres no laws on private sales of so called used guns..
Even when laws are nationwide they don't work unless they're enforced.
If they ever made it nation wide, the drug trade would have competition!! Not to mention a hell of a lot more unarmed sheep for the idiots who buy those guns to kill!! You want to be a sheep then be my guest!!!
What do you and Dean have against sheep anyway?
Guns dont just appear out of thin air. Criminals buy guns from legal sources who sold them into the black market for extra profit. Laws would end that. Laws controlling ammunition would also end it. In country's that have banned guns nation wide, where they dont have America as a neighbor, and they have a real government, gun violence is 10% what it is in the U.S., (per-capita)
Gun laws do work. Its not perfect, but its a hell of a lot better then no laws, or few laws. BTW, Im talking control laws, not full bans too. Licence and registration basically. No licence, no ammo, etc. Keep proper records so guns dont find their way to the black market. I dont support full bans at all. I own 2 hunting rifles.
Ron : What are you gonna do , shoot the IRS agents sent to collect your unpaid back taxes ?
YEP!!!! Then hang them.
You are under the impression I care what you think Carson? Big mistake...
Hey Freedom,maybe he bought the gun from Eric Holder during the "Fast & Furious" debacle.
Ace-312731: . . . or from Bush, since the "Fast and Furious" program was actually suggested and planned by someone in the office of one of his attorneys general. It wasn't carried out until after Bush left office. So I guess that shows that NOBODY thought this through very well.
@Freedom,
Yes, complete gun and ammunition bans work. They work so well, in fact, that Jamaica's murder rate increased immediately after banning all guns and ammo in 1974. To this day, their murder rate has never been below pre-1974 levels and is 6x what it was before these laws were enacted.
And how about the United Kingdom? Their draconian gun laws began in 1988, with the passing of the Firearms Act of 1988 that banned all long guns chambered in calibers larger than .22. Then, in 1997 they banned all handguns and all handgun ammunition. The result of these bans? Crime went up every single year after the bans were enacted. Two years after the 1997 ban, gun crime went up 40%. In 2009, gun crime was double what it was before 1997. AND guess what else was discovered? "But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods." Yes, that's right! Even after under reporting crime for more than a decade, their crime rates STILL went through the roof.
But how about the United States? Gun ownership is at an all time high, while crime rate is at a 35-year low. This comes after the expiration of the Assault Weapon ban, amidst a recession, with high unemployment rates (which we've all been told leads to increased crime rates), and after many states have loosened gun control laws to allow law-abiding citizens to carry firearms on their person for self-defense.
I guess it's all just a coincidence..
Murder rate has nothing to do with gun violence, for one. (Were not talkin about murder rates anyway) This is about gun violence incidents, mass shootings, and deaths by gun.
For two, Jamaica is a 3rd world country.
Modern countries with decent gun control laws, you dont see these mass shootings near as often. Thats the main point here.
Once again folks, Separation Church and State! We all have the constitutional right to kill, because if we do not, then that means the Not-So-Supreme Court Justices are morons, and need to set every 'murder' 'Rapist' child Molester' 'armed robber' 'shoplifter' and perjerer' free! Madelyn Murray O'hare got the ten commandments removed from school so that they would not be followed, a psychiatrist at the time mentioned that 'seeing the ten commandments will be psycholigically damaging' to children! Remember this is a free country the not-so-superem Court of 1962 has ruled it, and the ruling judging for hire was Hugo Black a practicing Ku Klux Klansman! I wish I could make this stuff up! Don't you just love to see a Klansman's doctrine upheld in our country? Can't we all just GET ALONG?!
...back away slowly
Very slowly... then grab a gun.
More like psycho-indulging.
Well, folks...it's survival of the fittest....just another day of life in the state of nature. Hooray for America!
I think if a few high profile CEO's were to get popped off instead of some overworked first level manager or associate; something productive might actually be accomplished. Otherwise, this is just senseless.
:D
Amazing how a sad incident like this brings out the dumbest citizens among us. Your user name fits perfectly. When the facts come out, I'm willing to bet these left leaning false accusers will disappear back under their rocks.
Lanikai, how about dropping your crap? Stick to the subject and stop making things up.
Huh, that wasn't necessary.
My hand-gun is a tool for my business. I use it several times a week. All you folks that are saying a hand-gun is only for killing are full of.........................................................
This is my weapon, this is my gun....this one's for fighting and this one's for fun!
Tumbleweed. I thought you were collecting SS.
I also collect scrap. I even hire people to help.
Your credibility tumbleweed, just got shot.
What saddens me is....all of these people who are angry and willing to kill and die, but go after random people who aren't even remotely responsible for their difficulties. If you are going to do something this drastic...go after the social darwinian arseholes in your area.
Ron...the social darwinists usually are the ones stealing from them.
It's generally not a good policy to advocate going after anyone with a gun.
Looks like another nut fell from the tree. When will people ever learn that violence gets you nowhere but dead. And all the anti-gun posters bashing gun ownership again. Guns have been in my family since the beginning of time and not a single family member ever shot anyone, except when fighting in a war. Wish you people would find something better to bash, like maybe our sorry excuse for a government or maybe the pimple on your forehead. Anything but guns. Guns do not kill. The a## pulling the trigger kills.
I'm not really even surprised anymore. As the economy gets even worse expect these events to become very common.
Seems that I never get a post in.
I bet this is actually a issue of most murders. Love, Betrayal, Sex. Most killing is in passion or over passion.
Sounds more like a Lifetime movie to me...or an episode of Young & the Restless. Mostly American fantasies.
I kill cause I'm hungry mad or scared love or betrayal never entered into the decision I mean I would kill not that I have killed I never killed honest I never did....
there was this one time....at band camp...never mind
Dont you gun owners realize that in the other 49 states guns do not kill people, it is people who pick up a gun as a weapon and choose to kill others.......but in california the people are so stupid it is the gun that has the brains and does the killing and just uses the waste of oxygen life forms to carry it around.......wake up.
YES, the one who freely make the choice as an adult to purchase a firearm, learn its safe and responsible use ....YES. The firearm, handgun in particular, is the core of civilization.
There are only two ways in which you can deal with another human being, civily or by force. The prefered method is by civil means where two or more educated and reasonable adults speak to one another and come to a responsible conclusion as to what needs to be done and who will do it. The second way is by force, where you must use force to make someone do something.
If a criminal or sociopath is set on harming you then you can attempt to reason with him in a civil manner and hope to change his mind by logic and debate.......or you can use force to prevent him from harming you.
Since all people are created equal but then grow to different sizes and different ages and various weekness it is reasonable to say we are all NOT equal after creation. Therefore a 55 year old man can be a victim to two 19 year old youth unless he is armed with a gun, then they can once again be EQUAL. The 55 year old can have an equal chance to fend off two predators now whereas a civil reaction might fail and leave him a deceased victim.
In the hands of a mature responsible person a firearm is simply a tool of work and survival, and if possessed and NEVER used equates to no harm done, but if not possessed and needed equates to victims and death.
To prevent legal citizens from possessing what we know criminals to always have is foolishness.
TO Azrancher: WHAT? (I live in AZ. Hope you don't live too close to me.)
I didn't know the President was arming illegals with rifles and grenades. Citations please.
Does this include Canadians?
Than God you cleared that up for me, I mistakenly thought there were many ways of dealing with other people.
I bet this is actually a issue of most murders. Love, Betrayal, Sex. Most killing is in passion or over passion.