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Cody Duty / AP
Occupy Houston protesters lay in the exit ramp at the Port of Houston Authority on Dec. 12.
Seven Occupy protesters were indicted on felony charges by a grand jury in Houston on Tuesday, a spokeswoman for the district attorney's office says, in connection with their demonstration at the local port as part of a national day of action by the movement.
The decision comes nearly a week after a judge initially dismissed the charges, saying the protesters could not be charged with possessing or using a "criminal instrument" – a felony in Texas – for their use of PVC pipe.
The protesters -- three from Austin, four from Houston -- put their arms through the pipe and used latches on it to connect together, making their arrest more difficult but not preventing it, said one of their attorneys, Daphne Silverman, of the National Lawyer's Guild in Houston. Donna Hawkins, a spokeswoman for the District Attorney's Office, confirmed the indictment.
"They are feeling, 'wow,' is the word. ... They're in a lot of shock. They were very happy with the justice's decision last week, they believed in her, they believed in the justice system," Silverman said. "These people ... are not criminals. These folks are out there attempting to make the country better for all of us."
Silverman, who noted that she believed the law had been wrongly applied by the prosecutor, said it's likely the protesters will be back in court in January to talk about the next step, such as negotiations or to go to trial. If convicted, they face up to two years in jail.
Protester Dustin Phipps -- who is not one of the seven charged -- said it was a "strategic move" by local police to discourage others from participating in civil disobedience.
"We definitely plan on fighting it," said Phipps, 28, a pre-medical student at the University of Houston. "We're going to move forward ... with faith and determination because we understand we have the rights and the upper hand, and we're going to make sure justice is served."
The protesters had joined with other Occupy outfits across the country that were conducting port shutdowns on Dec. 12 to economically disrupt what they called "Wall Street on the waterfront.”
Arrests on felony arrests were occurring in other cities, such as Denver and New York. Civil rights lawyers have suggested the use of felony charges was another form of crackdown on the movement.
The Houston Police Department has used the "criminal instrument" against protesters on previous occasions, according to Attorney Randall Kallinen, who is representing one of the seven protesters. The charge usually does not hold up in court in such cases, but because it is a felony charge it has a chilling effect on would-be activists, he said.
"We’ve been seeing more of them (felony arrests), especially beginning of November," said Gideon Oliver of the lawyers guild in New York. The police and the district attorney’s office have discretion in determining the charges, "and so there are two sort of steps in the process where ... the police or the DA, if they conducted a reasonable investigation, I think, in a lot of these cases would realize that they’re overcharging."
Msnbc.com's Kari Huus contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
Throw em all in jail and then lose the keys. "These people ... are not criminals. DUH YES THEY ARE!
May I ask what crime they are committing? Don't say "oh they don't work, or contribute to society." Technically, those aren't crimes...
I could easily see reckless endangerment (lying in the middle of an off-ramp) and resisting arrest (using a pvc pipe to purposely make arrest more difficult). I'm sure there are a couple other laws being broken when they stop traffic and keep people from getting to work, not to mention the possibility of killing someone when emergency vehicles can't use roads being blocked. Selfish and narrow minded is what they are. Their opinion is the only one that matters. Everybody else (the true 99%) is wrong in their minds.
Attempting to prohibit another from conducting their legal business without proper authority is illegal. When they tried to shut down the ports, they impinged on others trying to conduct business and peole to earn their living. The success of the actions isn't the only determining factor. Intent is a key point.
How about "Economic terrorism"? a quote from the article;
Definition of economic terrorism according to the Geneva Center for Security Policy;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_terrorism
They aren't criminals. They're economic terrorists. That's what closing down ports is.
There may be a bit of prosecutorial overreach here. But frankly, I welcome it. This is no more prosecutorial overreach than it is protesting overreach to shut down ports.
When folks go to supermarkets to find bare shelves because of OWS, they'll wish somebody had put these cockroaches in prison & thrown away the key.
Ren,
All those OWS folks are trying to make things better for you and me or maybe just me because I am a proud member of the 99%. And you? Well, you look like a Newton Leroy twin. Wonder if your pocket book matches your wasteline?
This isn't some grass roots movement either. "coordinated and sophisticated" such as;
Who can forget "Occupy foreclosed homes".
Dec 16th was about shutting down all the ports.
And lets not forget there demands for forgiving all student loans.
Thier demand for restructuring or forgiving all Home mortgage dept.
Their demand for Income equality.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/revealed-the-lefts-economic-terrorism-playbook-the-chase-campaign-for-a-coalition-of-unions-community-groups-lawmakers-and-students-to-take-down-us-capitalism-and-redistribute-wealth-power/
http://www.businessinsider.com/seiu-union-plan-to-destroy-jpmorgan
Every thing below is from a transcript of a speech given by Steve Lerner formerly of SEIU at Pace University on March 19th 2011. If you don't believe me I suggest you look it up for yourself and do your own research. Creating Crisis, destabilizing government, and creating chaos is the backbone of the cloward Piven strategy. Just look at who he sights at the end of his speech.
David, according to you wingnuts, the Boston tea party would be "economic terrorism."
This is civil disobedience pure and simple treat as nothing more or less. Did they actually impede an emergency service? To my knowledge no, and I'm confident if there were an emergency they would have moved. (as any sane person would). They are trying to prove a point to the CORPORATE world. That the individual is a PERSON. This is a treatise that the Unions have spoken for over a century, but corporate America seams not to be able to hear. "You beat a dog enough, he'll show his teeth"
So some people think free speech should be prosecuted because it is inconvenient, but that people on Wall Street defrauding millions of Americans is OK? You attack the protesters and want them put in jail. Who will be there to support you when you find your retirement fund looted and you are too old to start over? Well then you will be just another protester and end up in prison.
Our founding fathers would have been jailed for 'economic terrorism'. Then you would have no constitution to complain about.
Civil disobedience is often tolerated, especially if it occurs in cause with wide spread, public support. But it is not exempt from prosecution.
Nobody has an inherent right to impede other people's use of public property as a political statement.
So if these protesters got arrested, I'd say they deserve it.
Did the civil rights marchers deserve to get arrested? How is protesting impeding anyone else's use of public property. You wingnuts are grasping.
When you camp out in public parks for weeks on end trashing the place you are denying the use of that park to any one else that would like to use it for its intended purpose. You are causing unnecessary financial hardship on the community that has to spend its resources because of you.
When you march out into the street and block it and keep people from using it to get to work you are denying them the use of that road for its intended purpose and possibly keeping them from getting to their jobs threatening their lively hood.
When you block the sidewalks and prevent paying customers, or your presence is discouraging them, from shopping and spending money at those shops, you are impeding there right to do business and survive.
You are an economic terrorist.
Not at all Noah, you are still free to use the park, if you chose not to, that is not you losing your right to use it.
Disrupting traffic is not denying one's right to transportation, it is an inconvenience.
What you are describing are inconveniences NOT the loss of rights.
Screw them. Disrupting others' work isn't protest, it's disrupting others' work. If everyone who had a beef laid down in the street, the nation would cease to operate.
Cut the red tape. Drive over them next time.
It's called endangerment. As in "being a danger to yourself and/or others around you". If someone decided to sit at the end of your driveway and refused to move unless you caved to their demands, that isn't disruptive to you, it's just an inconvenience, right? Without searching for stories I can guarantee you there have been fender benders at the very least from traffic being "inconvenienced". But, hey, that's the price OWS has decided everyone should be happy to pay for our own good, right? Don't worry if you can't make that truck payment this month because OWS decided to shut down the ports and you can't make your deliveries...it's for your own good.
"So if these protesters got arrested, I'd say they deserve it."
Anybody who is arguing that theses protesters shouldn't get arrested is missing the point. Part of the idea of civil disobedience is being willing to deal with the consequences peacefully, which often means getting arrested. Charging them with a felony is another story. That's just a ridiculous waste of resources in an effort to discourage other Occupiers from "acting up."
Everyone needs to understand the definition and purpose of PROTESTING! I can't believe all the idiots out there that can sit in their easy chairs and criticize our nation and its unfairness continuously, but then sit there in the same stroke and try to criticize these protesters. Sure there are some bad apples in the lot, but it doesn't play to the old adage that it spoils the lot of all the apples. These folks are fed up with Wall Street and bad government. We all are, so to all you who wish to merely point fault at everyone else and think you can make some sort of a lazy minded change that way? Doing nothing with your lazy unimportant lives other than to suck the wind out of everyone else's sails, you can go to hell.
Even across the ocean and around the world, when government ignores the people so much that they have to protest in the streets, the leaders will continue to ignore the people and merely wait it out, wade through the slightly rippled waters, because the people aren't willing to make large waves.
In China, China now none-the-less, villagers in small communities won their protest against land developers by blocking their whole towns of 20,000 people or more with fallen trees (some set afire), stopping all commerce traffic until they got the attention fo the government. Those local leaders are now expunged, history folks!
The enemies in your life, of our country, are the type of people who take office like these prosecutors who misuse and abuse the law to charge YOU with felonies when all you are doing is protesting! You yourself fast become the enemy of our nation with your cowardly complacency!
Shutting down ports, blocking streets and entrances to buildings is the only way we can protest and make a point, to make government take notice. If we protest quietly, respectfully and without energy, we are never heard. Look where it has gotten us too.
Their one idea of a nationwide protest by not paying mortgages would have worked, would have stalled Wall Street, would have brought a nationwide collapse that could have been controlled by the powers that be having to give in to the demands of the people.
Yet, nothing like that will happen in America, the land of the fantasy free and lazy cowardly humble quiet sheep.
So go ahead and chastise these protesters. they have more balls than you got!
Our country has gotten to be worse than the conditions of China in many areas. We're rooting for the fascists that throw our civilians in jail on false felony charges, while Wall Street Bandits rape our financial economy and don't even get prosecuted! The SEC can decide to prosecute Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac executives, but lie to us that they can find no guilt with Wall Streets CEOs and execs. Last time I looked, fraud was a felony in the degree they perpetrated their crimes.
China is fast becoming a better example economically, industrially, and with capital growth than we the lazy content idiots that make up our populace can represent.
So all you measly little sheeple out there just shut the F up, since all you can do is complain and bitch. You make the real 99% of us sick with shame to have you among our proud populace.
No, it is not, and you are not reaching anybody who does not already share your views, motives and means. And to protest by attempting to obstruct others in their daily life is not protesting, it is denying these people their rights.
Perhaps if you had a coherent program, proposed changes to existing laws, perhaps quiet protests would be noticed. more.
I look at these demonstrators and I see nobody with whom I feel any common cause.
BTW: If you think that China has become some Eden of civil rights, you are sadly mistaken.
Docsuby
"They are trying to prove a point to the CORPORATE world. That the individual is a PERSON."
Guess what....corporations don't give a crap about your points. They care about making money for their shareholders. You can protest outside their office for the next 20-years. The wheels are still going to keep turning, their employees are still going to show up for work everyday, and they're going to keep doing what they do, which is to make money. They answer to their shareholders, and frankly, their shareholders don't care of Joe from the Mail Room lost his job. They care about what kind of dividends they are getting this quarter from their investments.
You are all wasting your time. Protesting isn't going to accomplish anything. If you really want to make some changes, you should get people to vote out all incumbents, and vote for people that actually care. Legislate, legislate, legislate. Get rid of all lobbyists, and eliminate corporate campaign contributions. Not that I'm a fan of the Tea Party, because I am not, but OWS could take some notes from their successes. But, they won't, because they're still too busy trying to come up with a clear list of goals and demands.
Okay, first off, there are extremes on both ends. To use the worst examples of the very end of a linear spectrum of people to paint a picture about the entire group of people is unfair and inaccurate. I wouldn't compare the TP to OWS because they aren't in the same category. One's an active protest, the other is psuedo-ideological/political party. A better comparison would be OWS to the Freedom Summer activists or civil rights protests, seeing as both are using non-violent civil disobedience, and if you do that you'll also see similarities in what the detractors of those two movements said.
While some of you call these protestors criminals, you say nothing about the criminal fraud and violations committed by the Wall St. people. Fraud and violations that victimized and stole money, homes, and opportunity from the protestors. Oh, and by the way TP, you're complaining about misdemeanors, when you're named after a felony.
Listen, people have a legitimate reason to be angry. The actions of Wall St. and the influence of Wall St. on our politicians has stomped out the American Dream. Keep in mind that after the recession started, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and the top 20% saw their wealth rise by about 2% points. The middle class saw their median household wealth decrease by around 36% while the top 1% saw their drop by only about 11%.
Also keep in mind that the SCOTUS decisions of Valeo and Citizen's United enabled Wall St. to buy financial deregulation from Washington. Gripe about Fannie and Freddie if you like, but the overwhelmingly agreed upon truth, is that they only contributed 16% to the proliferation of high risk mortgages. TARP was necessary because of deregulation. The stimulis was necessary because of deregulation. This whole mess was caused because of deregulation. It's the difference between a reactive solution and a proactive one. Without regulations, there is no free market, only a rigged one.
The overwhelming majority of OWS folks have lived up to their end of the bargain. They've gone to school, followed the law, paid taxes and voted. They've been promised that if you do these things, and allow Wall St. and the government to do their things, you will have a job and a realitively good life. They continued to believe in that as they watched corporations become people, tax cuts being given to the rich, two wars begun, their pensions pilfered and their homes forclosed on. While simultaneously watching the very people responsible for the loss of their jobs, homes, and pensions becoming increasingly wealthy through increasingly criminal activity.
Upward mobility has all but ceased in this country. We have an entire ruling class of political and intellectual elite. Why should the OWS or middle class not only have to suffer at the hands of the corrupt ruling class, but in addition have to also find the solution to their corruption. They broke it, they need to fix it. OWS isn't trying to take away that wealth or "eliteness" (that would be class warfare, fyi) they're trying to speak out and enact cooperation from that ruling class.
"First they laught at you, then they fight you, and then you win." - Gandhi
How dare they disrupt the Fatherland.
You aren't very bright, are you?
Neither are you Bill.
As the saying goes, "Don't Mess With Texas".
Seems like if you block the ports you should be charged with some crime having to do with interference with interstate commerce. Why are they not charged with some statute having to do with that?
Blocking , attacking ports??? wasn't that what the original Tea Party did???
But your now on the side of the corporations, which would correlate to King George.
Proud of that stance?
The only people that these OWS idiots are hurting with this stupid action is the longshoremen and truck drivers who are not going to get paid for the day because of the shutdown. A one day delay in getting goods delivered is not going to have any major impact on businesses. The middle class, blue collar employees that work at the ports, however, are definitely going to be hurt by losing a day's pay, particularly right at the start of the holiday season. These workers are not on salaries, they are hourly employees and if they do not work, they do not get paid. These OWS protesters are just a bunch of people with their hands out waiting for the nanny state to take care of them. Well guess what, life does not work that way. No one is guaranteed the American Dream, the only thing that is guaranteed is the right to pursue that dream through your own hard work and ambition. No one owes you anything except your right to live free and pursue your own dreams, so long as you do not infringe on others rights in doing so. No one owes you a house, no one owes you a job, no one owes you a college education. These are all things you must work for to get. Most of the rich got that way through their own hard work, perseverance, and sacrifice; they did not have it handed to them. Granted, some inherited their wealth, but somewhere along the line someone in their family worked to generate that wealth, it did not magically appear. Try reading about the sacrifices that some of the founders of big companies made to get their business started. Many of them barely scraped by for long periods of time while pursuing their dreams until the hard work started to pay off. You have no right to share in their wealth or demand that they give you some of that money unless you do something to earn it from them. No one is going to forgive your student loans because you spent $100,000 majoring in art history and can't find a job. Why should those of us who studied subjects that actually had a career path attached to them and put in all the work now support you because you made a bad choice and took a easy fluff major so you could party all through school. If they wanted a career that would allow them to make a good living maybe they should have majored in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics (STEM). There are many jobs available out there for people with degrees in the STEM fields that pay very good salaries. Also, not only did many f them take majors that had no real usefulness from the standpoint of having a career, but they chose to lead the party life while they were in college instead of working to help reduce the amount of debt the had to take on. And let's not even start on the ones that took five or six years to complete their degrees, taking light course loads to give them more free time to party and have fun. This entitlement attitude needs to end. People need to get used to taking care of themselves again instead of looking to the government to take care of them.
JS: paragraphs are your friend. Please, that mired together block of words .............................just goes on .....................and on ..............................................and on.......................................................................................................................................................
^^ there's at least six poor souls who took the time to read it.
Ever notice how these RW CONServative anti-OWS cry "Economic Terrorists, Commies, Bums", etc when ever the OWS lays down and block something.......and when the REAL Economic Terrorists....the Wall Street Banksters, etc steal TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS and that does not bother these RW CONS tools NOT ONE BIT!
kdc43
Do you care to explain how the Wall Street Banksters,etc steal TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS?
@ JS in SD
How much does a longshoremen make or do you know? Longshoremen are a special breed of people that believe in the American Dream and unlike most people these employees have banded together to protect each other from corporations that would love to have illegal's doing their job, as most corporations would. Because of all the goods you buy from other countries these men and women work long and hard hours for you. They work 24/7 to get these goods to you and again they do this for you. So taking a day off is something they may look forward to once in a while. This special breed has and always and will look out for the little man and I take my hat off to them and would do the same thing they do for all of us if I had the chance. It's truly sad to watch and be part of a country that believes we have to look out for number one and the hell with the rest.
JS, nice post, hit the nail on the head, but of course, those who feel entitled..... its like trying to convince a child, the old lady across the street isnt a witch. common sense eludes them like the rainbows they chase, never reaching the end, but insisting there is one. Paying no mind that a rainbow is nothing more than a mere optical illusion created with the bending of light in reflections of the water falling, thinking "the Leprechan really does exist, how could i ever believed in Santa?" attitude. Then they hold the faith for so long, they know no other way of life... yes the blind souls who think people are to work FOR them while they do NOTHING, other than waste the air, food, and water supply just by exsisting, and making anothers life more miserable, thinking they actually are better than every one else who isnt entitled... what ever makes these people feel so special, would love to see when the cash crop ends.
hahahahahaha
uhmmmm... I wonder if they'll "occupy" a cell for a period of time.
They'll get free lodging, which is what they wanted.
They'll get free meals, which is what they demanded.
They'll get free medical care which is another demand.
So all in all, I think they'll be getting exactly what they wanted when they were protesting.
And it will ALL be provided by the people they're protesting... TAXPAYERS!!
XD, the Occupy is not for "free" anything, they are for fairness. Of course you foxbots wouldn't know that. They are taxpayers as well, I know it is difficult for your simple mind to grasp.
xd you are spot on, rad, get a job, pay taxes and then complain
lackofcommonsense, I probably pay more in taxes than you make in the year. I earned my right to complain by spending 25 years in the Army.
Cut everything but the word dude from your name, as you lack the first two words of it.
Common sense would indicate some sort of rational thought, of which you do not seem to possess.
Your mentality is that everyone that doesn't think like you about this, at the very least, agrees with you, is unemployed.
Could you please find me the common sense in that?
Dude,
I have a job. I pay taxes. I complain.
Do I still have no rights (according to you)?
What do you consider fair? Would yo say that your all for equality? Would you say it would be fair if everyone paid the same income tax rate without exception, in other words a flat tax?
If i spent four years of my life going through college, working two jobs to get through it while giving up just about everything and now make $100,000.00 a year and I'm paying back $120,000.00 in student loans is it fair that i'm paying a 35% tax rate on my earned income while some janitor who doesn't have a high school diploma and makes $20,000.00 a year only pays an 8% income tax rate?
Are the roads he drives on not the same roads I drive on? Is the USPS not the same USPS we both get our mail delivered by? Is the armed forces that fight to protect his freedoms not the same as the one that fights for my freedom?
So how is it fair that he deosnt' have to pay as much in taxes as I do when I busted my ass for years to get ahead and make something of myself and he didn't?
If you want to be rich and successful the only one stopping you is you. This is the land of dreams and opportunity not the land of wishful thinking and complaining.
It is fair, it doesn't treat you as special as you expect but it is fair.
No, Noah a flat tax isn't fair, it is inheritantly regressive. Adam Smith opposed a flat tax stating
and
Do you think it is fair that the wealthiest 1% of this country control over 40% of the wealth or that the top 5% control over 80% of the wealth?
The land of dreams and opportunity is what the OWS movement is fighting to preserve.
BTW, Noah, you lie! the tax rate for making $100k per year in this country is 28%, not 35%. It's not that high until you make over $379,000.
I don't make $100,000.00 a year so please forgive me if I didn't get the exact tax rate correct. It was meant to be an illustration but obviously you didn't get it.
The Left are Hypocrites.
You constantly talk about "equality", how every one in America should be treated equally, have the same opportunities regardless of race, religion, upbringing etc...
You want every one to get educated and become successful and how do you reward that success by taxing them more than someone that isn't successful and hard working. The more successful they become the more you punish them by making them pay more of what they earned in taxes. If they really become successful you demagogue them, call them the 1%, there selfish and not paying there fair share, they don't care about the poor, etc.
Now you are trying to turn Americans on each other and create this militant atmosphere were the 99% are the victims and the 1% are villains.
You punish success and hard work in America and call it "Social Justice".
If theres a flat tax of 10% and I make $100,000.00 a year I pay $10,000.00 in taxes. Someone else makes $20,000.00 a year they pay $2,000.00 in taxes.
That's equality! That's everyone being treated equally in America! That's everyone paying taxes in proportion to their ability.
No, David, it isn't.
Someone supporting a family (or even just living alone) on $20,000 a year is going to spend a great deal of that income on necessities. It is expensive to be an American. Food, clothing, shelter, water, these things are not optional. (I would argue that health care should not be optional either - it should be considered a basic right in a country as advanced and prosperous as ours - but we can disagree there.)
so let's say, for argument's sake, that the person making $20,000 needs to spend $15,000 of that on absolute necessities. This leaves them with $5,000 to spend on other things - but after your flat tax, they've got only $3,000. You've taxed their available income at 40%.
Now, let's say that the person making $100,000 has a higher standard of living - they choose to spend twice as much on the bare necessities. $30,000 for that, leaving $70,000 of available income. After the $10,000 tax, they're still left with $60,000 of available income - their effective tax rate was only 15%. (If they choose a lower standard of living, their effective tax rate on disposable income is even lower.)
Now the numbers are all hypothetical, but if you look at this with an open mind, you'll see why intelligent people understand that a flat tax is not a fair tax. There is a certain basic income level required to sustain a life and a family in our society (varying based on where in the country you live, size of household, and other factors), and people should only be taxed on the income they make past that level.
Think, my friend, think. Your ideas are overly simplistic.
A loss of the 1st Amendment is a complete loss of freedom, plain and simple.
Any moron who tries to bring this case to court will be taking a tiger by the tail. Since justice is supposed to be blind, that means it's going to be really hard to see which direction the claws and teeth are coming from.
That's when those prosecutors will realize it was a bad idea to grab a tiger by the tail while blindfolded.
So their next brilliant plan will be to try and blindfold the tiger...
You'er right and these people are nothing like the TEA PARTY was.
Does anyone the name of the Bishop arrested?
"We definitely plan on fighting it," said Phipps, 28, a pre-medical student at the University of Houston.
Yup, I want this guy as my Doctor. Wonder if he's thought of how a felony arrest will look on his resume
at least he's not pre-law...
I DO have one question.
Can someone explain why Doctors and Lawyers PRACTICE medicine and law? Didn't they go to school to get it right?
that is an assinine comment XD. These people are studying for professions that will potentially put them in the 1%, yet they are protesting the system. It should tell you something.
Too easy, but I'll take it.
In your world, do no new diseases develop? Do new procedures ever evolve? Does new equipment ever reshape how a certain ailment is treated? Are new medicines never developed?
Medicine, equipment and procedures are constantly evolving. The medical field is a field of constant learning.
Would you go to a mechanic that hasn't learned anything new in 20 years to service your 2010 Lexus, or would you want a person that has kept on learning as the technology improved?
Yeah, I'm sure a peaceful protestor had felony arrest on the mind. Wake up, don't be part of the sheeple. The felony charges are trumped up to dissuade legal assemblies by protestors.
Does that mean that I practice Information Technology then?
Protest all you want. Stand on the sidewalk, hold all the signs you want. Break the law while you protest, and I hope you go to jail.
I want the banks to make less money. If I decide to rob banks as a way to protest how much the banks make, should I not be charged with the crime because I did it in protest?
No, I would go to jail. Block traffic, or whatever, if it is a crime, then send them to jail.
Said the Republican spin doctor in his Fox "News" interview.
They really are domestic terrorists. All should be charged and convicted of felonies. At least we would not have them voting.
Blocking traffic is a crime? As in a criminal offense?
Yes. In certain circumstances. So is assault on a police officer. Not dispersing when told. Felony destruction of property. on and on.
No assault on police officers occured until the police assaulted protestors. Not dispersing when told is the very essence of civil disobedience. No felony destruction of property has occured.
Yes blocking traffic is a crime. A minor one, but still a crime.
Why cant I get on a plane and say I have a bomb? I have the first amendment right to say what I want don't I? They have laws for safety and the right to assemble is more legally restricted then speech.
Comment # 8.4 deleted.
Don't death wish, Keith-1952.
You don't have to agree with their methods or even their messages, but we can never ever give up our freedom of civil disobedience.
If not for civil disobedience, this country would not exist.
Statistically the numbers for this "Recession" are worse than the number during the The Great Depression.
Only difference is the availability of people to use Credit. It is all going to come crashing down and you may find yourself wanting to show your Civil disobedience to the people that have screwed us so badly.
Have to protect all our freedoms, even if it makes you uncomfortable at times.
Happy Chanukah , Happy Festivus(my holiday), Merry Christmas, Happy Winter Solstice and I think Chinese New year is in there somewhere without searching.....
Peace to All
Shutting down ports is economic terrorism, not legitimate protest.
Lock them up & throw away the key.
what do you consider a legitimate protest, bending over and saying "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"
Sandman, according to you the Boston tea party would be economic terrorism. Or, did you wingnuts forget about this piece of our history?
I wonder, Busteroo, if you also stand up and cheer when OTHERS practice "civil disobedience" outside an abortion clinic. Sure you do.
It wasn't civil disobedience that created this country. It was six years of open war with England.
that started with civil disobedience.
It started with years of sending letters to King George the Second and the English parliament with their grievances. It didn't just happen overnight. They tried to do it the right way first. It was only after years of being ignored that they finally decided to declare independence.
How many letters of grievance have you sent to Obama and Congress. What is your stated grievances you would like our government to consider and take action on? What have you done over the years to work within the system to try and change those things you think are wrong and want changed?
...
That's what I thought...
it also included years of civil disobedience. According to Britsh law at the time letter of grievances against the crown was the same as treason. And, yet we are here because people decided to stand up and fight a corrupt system. You would have been a Tory during the revolution.
This is not civil disobedience, it is criminal disobedience.
That being said, I think the charge is bogus. They should be charged with interfering with interstate commerce instead. Something that they truly were doing.
And don't forget taxation without representation. Last time I looked each US citizen has the right to vote for their representitive. Don't like the way things are going, vote someone else in. They could not do that with King George
Jim - how much do they pay you per post?
Well dave I certainly wouldn't want to dissuade you from your civil disobedience. By all means go out and get yourself arrested. If you still cant tell by now all this "civil disobedience" isn't helping your cause at all. Whatever that cause might be.
All you have really done is help the Tea Party become the next third party. After seeing your movement, the arrests, rapes, arson, drugs, destruction, and deaths, etc. what makes you think the 99% wants to be represented by a bunch of criminals that have no respect for our laws and communities...
You have to take responsibility for what you do. Felony charges are appropriate. The right does not include breaking the law.
Funny, I don't see any politician with the initials T.P. after their name. the Tea Party is nothing but a Koch brother wet dream. What rapes, arson, drugs, destruction and deaths are you talking about? Nothing of the sort have been tied to any Occupy protest.
No one pays me to post. I have a job, working for a corporation, with skills that I learned when I went to college, earning a degree by working and taking out loans that I later paid off, using the money to buy a home that I could afford. Not that I would expect you to understand any of that.
raddave,
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=have+there+been+rapes+at+OWS
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=have+there+been+drugs+at+ows
http://newsok.com/occupy-okc-participant-found-dead-in-tent-at-kerr-park/article/3618763#ixzz1cPX18FZt
Wake up, I was responding to raddave who stated that none of those acts were tied to OWS. However, now that you bring it up, how are we in a Police State? What rights have been taken from you? Who has been shot by the police for protesting?
shhhhhh.... There are spies everywhere waiting to report you to the secret police.
Don't worry Jim, I am part of "The Man", and we already know everything. We control all aspects of everyones lives. We know what everyone, everywhere is doing all the time, so I can assure you that you are safe.
JustaGrunt as of 2012 we will be a police state; posse comitatus has been suspended in the NDAA bill.
Sure it has. <sarcasm> The NDAA bill will not affect American Civilians. The laws that congress pass can not take away your basic rights as an American Citizen. If they try it will go to court, and get thrown out on violation of 6th and 14th amendment guarantees.
Disgusting! A severe abuse of discretion by the prosecutor. I think the prosecutors political ambitions trumped his moral judgment. This will get thrown out eventually.
Yeah, well let's see what you think when you don't have any toilet paper because the supermarket shelves are bare due to an OWS protest.
The prosecutor is doing the right thing. This isn't legitimate protest.
I'd like to take a bat to their empty little heads and give them a little psychological first aid.
There's no constitutional right to block shipping ports.
Isn't legitimate according to whom?
There was no right to throw tea into a harbor either. Clearly you failed to pay attention in history class or at least understand what you were being taught.
Not only that but they charged them with felonies for use of a criminal instrument. PvC pipe used as it was is not a criminal instrument. To charge them as such is a perversion of the law. To pervert a law so that we can charge people with felonies that we somehow see as undesirable, is the very definition of tyranny. That fact that you are either willing to allow someones civil rights(which are yours as well.) to be violated for a temporary economic gain or are ignorant to what the implications for this are, is disturbing to me at the least.
Nothing new about that in Texas. Truth and Justice are absent most court rooms in our Judicial system.
Not at all. It is never "fair" when you progressive/socialists are held responsible is it. Get used to it. The Tea Party had rallies. OWS are domestic terrorists.
the teabaggers are racist fools.
rad...ill bet your an expert on teabagging
It had to be Texas, LOL. And next week they'll give them the chair because they dared to exercise their First Amendment rights. Apparently In Texas, the United States Constitution does not apply. That state is only slightly worse than Syria.
Really? Because you have a right to disrupt business? You have a right to voice your opinions in an appropriate manner but your rights do not over ride any other individuals rights. Not everyone was arrested at these protests, just the ones breaking the law.
Also, which state do you think fully honors the Constitution and not just the parts you agree with but the whole thing?
Who's rights were overridden by these protests? No ones.
Peoples right to an orderly society. Peoples rights to their own property. Demonstrate, make your point and go home. But you did not do that. Crap in public; block private property; assault police; you broke every health law written; The only reason you over stayed was liberal politicians allowed it. If you went away no one would ever remember you were there. Now go to Congress and talk to your Congressmen. They will not let you in the door.
What about all of the workers at the port who had to go home with out a pay check that day because the OWS decided to shut down their place of employment?
where does it say in the Constitution that you have the right to an orderly society? Who's right to own property was prevented by the OWS? crap in public? You got one picture of a dude rubbing his butt on a police car and that is "crapping in public?" No police was asaulted, not like the OWS protestors were here in California. The only reason they were allowed to stay is because they were occupying public land.
Oh, it's funny to hear a wingnut sanding up to someone's right to earn a living, while denouncing people protesting for that very reason.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"
-The Declaration of Independence
By interfering with a mans employment, you are interfering with his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The Declaration of Independance isn't a legal document, try something else. Besides I see life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. I don't see going to work everyday.
Raddave, would you prefer anarchy and chaos? What exactly is your goal and dream state?
God, is it possible that in the 21st century there are people who do not know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Let me guess, you are from Texas, aren't you?
Wake Up Now, Anarchy can only be a temporary state. Eventually, some one is going to accumulate enough power to take over. That is the issue.
I strongly disagree with your basis of people. If people were inherently good then we would not have a jail system, war, greed, etc.
If people are inherently bad then a state of anarchy is going to end much worse than people living and let live.
Welcome to Nazi Amerika.
Godwin's Law----any internet discussion eventually produces a Nazi analogy. You win!!
It also will produce accusations of bigotry, homophobia, hatred, faux news, racism, all kinda isms!!
Spike, except in this case, the NAZI reference is warrented.
Congrats, fedotter, you were the first to use "Nazi" on this thread. You win a lather bound copy of Roget's Thesaurus and do you need it!
No Vic, the NAZI reference was apt.
This is simply another tactic of the 1% to try and stop these protesters from marching...scare tactics is all it is and should not hold water in court! Just more of our tax dollars wasted by the gov. Any of you that don't make over a million dollars a year should be out there marching instead of sitting on your asses and criticizing what would help YOU. Just makes you all look rather stupid!!!!
I am the 99%
Congrats, Vic, you were the first to misspell LEATHER. You win a paperback copy of Roget's Dictionary and do you need it!
raddave, how is the Nazi reference warranted?
My grandparents escaped Russia in the early 1900's and eventually found there way to the United States. My grandfather had served seven years in Siberia for protesting against the government, a serious crime there. When they came to the United States, they came to the land of religious and political freedom. Now protesters in the United States may serve time in prisons just like my Grandfather did in Czarist Russia. What has happened to us? Who are these people who feel so righteous and so threaten by dissent, that they justify and facilitate the imprisonment of those who protest.
If the protests in America last very long you will see that America and Russia are not that different.
The occupy movement just makes the left look as stupid as they really are.
the prosecutors should be charged with misuse of their office in this one
Right after we take those OWS protesters to the guillotine & cut off their empty little heads.
Trouble is, it won't do them any damage.
guillotine? You French socialist!
Sandman: Do not wish for a Bastille day. For you may not be on the right side.
And , in this country, the revolution would not have to steal, to be armed.
Something, one should consider whilst abusing power and attacking the constitution.
An gross over-reaction, could make occupy, a armed American spring in a heartbeat.
Yea, happening all over the world. Can't happen here.........
A dangerous situation. I hope the DA grows a brain, in this case.
Scar and raddave, this has got to be one of the most interesting blogs I have come across. I for one cannot believe that using pipes to make it more difficult for the police to drag me away from my protest site would end up in felony charges. How the hell does that happen in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA??? Felony Charges for a non violent sit in?
These charges really shows the lack of understanding I have ofthe law of the United States. I thought the laws were made to create fairness that enabled us all to live together peacefully. What I a fool I was. If a State Offical can change the charges just upon a whim? Well, THAT speaks of totalitarianism. NAZI / Communist...same / same.
If I were not so far away, I would have joined them in the protest. I cannot stand the importation of all this crap and the exportation of our money, factories and jobs. This crap comes to this country by way of the ports. Hell, yes, that is the place to protest. There, on wall street and at the polls.
I read above that if one of these Protesters went to their Congressman to complain, they would be thrown out of the office. Well, how is it that some lobbyist gets free access? My God, do some of you really not get what is going on? Are you the types that would sit on the Titanic and say, "Wow, look how fast we are going! To hell with the ice in the water! Faster, faster, I trust the Captain!" Well not me, I count the life boats and tell people that IF we crash, most of you WILL die.
People, we are in icy water and you better get involved or when the ship starts to go down, I will make sure that I am on the boat with my family and you...it will suck to be you when you remember the BS you wrote about people that tried to change things BEFORE it was too late.
Busteroo...not sure what country you live in, but in the U.S., you do not have the right of civil disobedience.
If you have a problem with the slow / no recovery, feel free to peacefully assemble at the White House, or write Mr. Obama a nice letter. I'm sure he will tell you how great we are doing.
LOL...Obama only reads the teleprompter.
Since when do you not have the right to civil disobedience? It is one of the staples of this country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution You do have the right to redress grievances , and peaceably assemble.
But, In a police state those are the first things thrown out.
And It's not a party thing. Ron Paul runs on the Constitution.
scar and raddave, civil disobedience is NOT peaceable assembly nor is it an example of the right to petition of grievances. If you are going to point to the Constitution, at least understand it.
Oh, and just so you understand...you have no constitutional right to redress greivances against an individual, company or corporation under the first ammendment. You do have the right to do so against the government.
Actually Jpeg: your not well versed in history are you?? In the time period your talking about dueling was legal. Andrew Jackson used it a little later in history.
Corporate heads then, acting like they do today, might have legally been shot, or would have had to provide themselves protection like when the railroads cut through the west.
And today the difference between the corporation and government becomes more clouded. In fact, the Supreme court has declared corporations with the same rights as people in campaign financing.
Oh by the way Jpeg: I remember some of the first Tea Party events.
People with AK's and AR15's slung on their backs.
I'm a firm believer in the second amendment.
But these same people, think PVC should warrant a felony charge???Give me a break....
Scar, the Tea party members were not resisting lawful orders of the police. The right to bear arms is just that. Talk to the police officers involved about the charge, it was their call. Now it's for the court to decide. I would dare say that if the officers cannot prove intent to harm, the charges will be thrown out.
Oh and Scar, dueling may have been legal, but it was not a constitutional right...and it has NEVER BEEN LEGAL TO COMMIT MURDER in this country. You sir have a serious misunderstanding of the history of this country.
Governor Hutchinson refused to grant permission for the Dartmouth to leave without paying the duty. Two more tea ships, the Eleanor and the Beaver, arrived in Boston Harbor (there was another tea ship headed for Boston, the William, but it encountered a storm and was destroyed before it could reach its destination[55]). On December 16—the last day of the Dartmouth's deadline—about 7,000 people had gathered around the Old South Meeting House.[56] After receiving a report that Governor Hutchinson had again refused to let the ships leave, Adams announced that "This meeting can do nothing further to save the country." According to a popular story, Adams's statement was a prearranged signal for the "tea party" to begin. However, this claim did not appear in print until nearly a century after the event, in a biography of Adams written by his great-grandson, who apparently misinterpreted the evidence.[57] According to eyewitness accounts, people did not leave the meeting until ten or fifteen minutes after Adams's alleged "signal", and Adams in fact tried to stop people from leaving because the meeting was not yet over.[58]
Destruction of the tea
1789 engraving of the destruction of the tea
While Samuel Adams tried to reassert control of the meeting, people poured out of the Old South Meeting House and headed to Boston Harbor. That evening, a group of 30 to 130 men, some of them thinly disguised as Mohawk Indians, boarded the three vessels and, over the course of three hours, dumped all 342 chests of tea into the water.[59] The precise location of the Griffin's Wharf site of the Tea Party has been subject to prolonged uncertainty; a comprehensive study[60] places it near the foot of Hutchinson Street (today's Pearl Street).
Further History from Wikipedia:
Let me 30-130 people out of 7,000 !!! In a population that small?? Well those 6,970 to 6,870 people were practicing their Constitutional right to assemble. Kinda like who?????
If your think MURDER is not part of our history. Then you missed the Indian wars, the Range Wars, Claim jumps, the Railroads hired guns escapades, etc.......
Argue a subject you know about.
It's been absolutely legal for those with power, to kill those without power , in our countries history. Take off the rose colored glasses.
Again Scar, LEARN HISTORY...the people you are talking about were British subjects. There was no constitution at the time.
well now they can start a jail cell occupy movement
If they openly state they are attempting to "illegally disrupt the lawful activities of a business or individual person" then they ARE engaging in CRIMINAL activity and can easily be arrested, charged and be found guilty, along with being responsible for all Fines and related court costs, etc. So "getting arrested" accomplishes... what???
Since there are a variety of ways to engage in "Legal Civil Disobedience" and CONDUCT LEGAL PROTESTS without committing ANY crime, these people are either:
#1. Way too stupid to READ and LEARN how to conduct effective legal civil protests? Or...
#2. They desperately CRAVE some type of notoriety otherwise known as GETTING ATTENTION in a manner similar to "spoiled little children having tantrums to get THEIR OWN WAY?... exactly how they were TAUGHT and permitted to behave by their parents?
It looks like Option # 2. WINS... hands down... no contest !
Well, to all you children of SAUL ALINSKY, "Welcome to the real world :-)" The cold, hard world that isn't run by your parents and will quickly put your azzez in jail.
As much as I empathize with their frustrations, IF they did have ANY brains they would have planned a far more effective strategy... especially in TEXAS... like duh?
Again, IF they had ANY brains, they would know that the people who AUTHORIZED everything they're frustrated about are NOT in NYC or on some dock in Texas... they are in the United States Congress.
Some people live their lives to create opportunities for people to live better lives... and others just whine and complain, while rarely accomplishing anything.
Ghandi and Rev. King accomplished far more effective results through PEACEFUL PROTESTS, including PEACEFUL BOYCOTTS but NEVER directly INTERFERED other than not patronizing certain businesses.
The Occupy groups may have sincere objectives, but as of today, collectively they have all completely failed to accurately spell out what those "specific objectives" really are.
There is a HUGE difference between a WANDERING GENERALITY and a MEANINGFUL SPECIFIC.
Guess which group the Occupy folks fall in to?
Speedy - It is obvious that you weren't around when Dr King was marching. You are wrong on all counts, in fact I have never read such an accumulation of wrong facts as you call them.
Gandhi was peaceful but thousands died supporting him. Martin Luther King's followers were beaten and imprisoned regularly and illegally. Just as these protesters have been misused by the law in Texas.
If you do not speak, some will mistake you for brilliant, when you do speak you remove all misconceptions
Robertito, you have the right to peaceably assemble. That right does not as has never included civil disobedience.
Your right's cannot infringe on that of another's. Is that so hard to understand?
Yes it does jpeg. Civil disobedience is the same as peacefully assembling.
Darn, if my memory doesn't escape me.... The original TEA PARTY was a peaceful assembly, that became a non peaceful assembly, to a felony charge.
Sounds like the (R)'s are King George's lackeys of yesteryear .
jpeg - that is not true. If it was black people would still be going to the back door of the restaurants and using their own water fountain.
Get a clue....civil disobedience and peaceable assembly are not the same thing. What are you people..12 years old. Scar, the original tea party was not a peaceful assembly, it was a calculated act of treason against the British Government. Keith, I'm not sure the point you are trying to make...most black people at the time participated in peaceful marches. Some committed acts of civil disobedience and were charged and prosecuted as needed.
Whether or not Samuel Adams helped plan the Boston Tea Party is unknown, but he immediately worked to publicize and defend it.[61] He argued that the Tea Party was not the act of a lawless mob, but was instead a principled protest and the only remaining option the people had to defend their constitutional rights.[6
Oh, and Jpeg, your childish insults show your mentality.
Hmm . that BOSTON TEA PARTY description sounds like what group of today??
SCAR....WAKE UP!!!
The Boston Tea Party occurred in 1773. The Constitution was adopted in 1787. How the heck would they be defending their constitutional rights when they had none?
And you call me childish. Show me one insult I have made.
Your arguing with a quote from wikipedia on the Boston Tea Party. I did not write it. Arguing with a encyclopedia?
"What are you people..12 years old" the insult.
heres the link to the whole article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
They were probably referring to this :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom
Scar....again...real slow...
TEA PARTY 1773
CONSTITUTION ADOPTED 1787
In 1773, there was no United States, no United States citizens, and no Constitution. Do you remember reading about a big war in 1776 when the colonies declared their independence from Britain.
The Tea Party was an act of treason by British subjects against the British government.
I could care less about wikipedia. Facts are facts.
If you consider "what are you 12..." an insult, I feel extremely sorry from you and apologize for hurting your feelings.
Felony charges for civil disobedience? The threat to the existing power structure must be felt very strongly by those on the right in Texas. Maybe if you guys were investing in jobs outside of a new Hardee's in Texas the folks wouldn't feel a need to block the port. Where all the goods come from China, where they're made by people working jobs that used to be done in here. And those Chinese workers are forced to work for low wages and poison their own environment.
JoeM-342538,
90% of the International Companies working in China are now Unionized, this is now a China Law....
It was done to protect the workers from low pay and few benefits. The result has been a GROWING Middle Class in China...
Unfortunately, businesses (even the Chinese companies) are now leaving China for countries that are not protecting their workers from cheap-skate companies; Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, etc...
Yes, AC Robertson: The Only Unionized Walmart , is in fact, in China.
Thailand just raised their minimum wage to 300-baht a day ($10+USD) from the low 200's. And 4+year college graduates are now guaranteed a minimum starting wage of 15,000-baht a month ($450+USD)...
You want to guess which companies were complaining the loudest???
The Chinese owned companies...
Our right to protest and make our voice's heard is being systematically eliminated and criminalized.
So much for our first amendment rights: shades of the Soviet Union in the USA.
Meanwhile the real criminals are drinking champagne while eating caviar with gold plated flatware on board their private corporate jets on the way to their companies' palm-fringed islands to celebrate the windfall profits achieved by the latest round of foreclosures, layoffs, outsourcing, loophole-riddled legislation and US taxpayer subsidies.
And yet here you are exercising your free speech. I don't see anyone here trying to stop you from expressing your view point or some government agency banning your I.P. and arresting you.
Here's the thing. You have to obey the law just like every one else. Get the proper permits and hold your rally legally. The Tea party managed to obey the law and get its message out without any arrests, rapes, destruction of public property, tying up law enforcement resources that tax payers pay for etc.
The only thing criminal is your behavior and lack of respect for the law.
Where does it say in the Constitution that a permit is required to peacefully assemble? the teabaggers weren't criminalized because politicians are scared of them.
Then you have the legal right to file a lawsuit and challenge the City, State, or County for requiring you to get a permit. Or you can try to change the laws. Of course that would require you to work within the system. Good luck with that.
The Tea Party followed the law getting the proper permits therefore they were never committing a criminal act. This may come as a shock. You have to break a law before you can be charged with breaking a law.
I would consider carrying signs calling for the overthrow of the government to be criminal acts. You don't have to break the law to be charged with one. You have to break one to be convicted, most of the time anyway. Or did you forget that one, even charged with a crime is presumed innocent?
Felony charges for protesting? Ridiculous. Whither the 1st Amendment....?
Economic terorists? Are you wingnuts crazy? They are peacefully protesting.
Anyone want to explain how PVC pipe is a felony criminal instrument?
I could understand galvanized with Black powder fused & capped within.
Or even a bottle with gasoline within.
Or even a large can of mace.
But empty PVC?? I hope it's laughed out of court.
We are not far from Egypt it seems. Yes , a police state.
Job security. You gotta make sure your privatized prisons have enough people in them to be profitable.
Our right to protest and to peaceful assembly is not often convenient. It is a right given to us by those who have fought and died for this country. How dare you wing nuts call these protesters cockroaches and to throw away the keys! You are ignorant and stand against all that made this country great.
Your right. Real protesters such as the Tea Party arranged there events. They applied and got the proper permits and paid the fees for security, trash, restrooms, to the cities, county, etc.. were they held their demonstrations.
Its not convenient but it is the right and proper way to do it. It also shows that you are trying to work within the system and respect the laws of the community . Obviously they did it right as evidenced from the shellacking the Democrats received in 2010.
funny, the teabaggers lose over 60% of the elections they were in and they claim victory?
I guess you forget 2010 were 78 Republican/Tea Party representatives were elected. Something that hasn't occurred since 1938.
Tell us how many "occupiers" will be running for office in 2012?
The Tea Party challenged the establishment and shook up the Republican Party.
What is OWS going to do to shake up the Democrat Party?
After all you Have Pelosi(i'm going to drain the swamp), Reid(435 milli0n dollars to china), Waters, Johnson, Rangle, Dodd(oh yea he's gone) , Wiener(oh Yea he's gone), Franks(will be gone) and you don't think there part of the establishment that is just as responsible for this mess as the Republicans?
Don't forget the the Glass-Steagal act was repealed in 1999, signed into law by Bill Clinton, passed by 90-8 in the Senate, and 356-57 in the House. All those Dems are just as responsible for the 2008 economic collapse and bailouts as the Reps because of that deregulation.
Whatcha gonna do, watcha gonna do, when they come for you...
David, are you the Tea Party president?
The OWS doesn't belong to the Democrats. I am a proud Conservative that supports the OWS movement.
Nope. Not even affiliated with them or any group. I'm what you would call someone that thinks for themselves.
If I have a grievance I write my Congressman and Senator. I work within the system and obey the laws and vote my conscious not some party line.
I'm open minded enough to realize that the system is broke. That the established order of things needs to change. That both the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for the state this country is in and both parties need to be held accountable.
The Democrats are no better than the Republicans and if all the OWS is about is trying to help the Democrats stay in office and continue this sham of a two party system then the OWS is no better than those they help remain in power.
I'll believe the OWS has some meaning when I actually see them do something positive besides continuing the Democrats class warfare BS. When I actually see them trying to break up the two party systems monopoly on our political system.
Instead of complaining about how your freedom of speech is being violated, crying about how un fare life is, boo hoo hoo we cant sleep in a park, why don't you actually do something, get organized, come up with a real platform of changes to fix this broken system.
I don't support pointless talking points, baseless rheteric, and class warfare propaganda and so far that's all the occupy wall street movement is about.
Until then stop pretending to represent the 99% of which 40% are conservative and 30% are independent. We want real change not pipe dreams.
Noah, you make the basic mistake of conflating conservatism as a political party. many of those "independants" are included in that "conservative" number.
Many of the OWS are also conservative. BTW, you aren't a conservative, you are a right wing authoritarian, a neocon and a wingnut.
raddave, from reading David's remarks, I would not be able to conclude whether he is liberal or conservative, or democrat or republican. I can tell you what he says is intelligent. Call people names just makes you petty.