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Brendan McDermid / Reuters file
Soldiers carry the casket of U.S. Army Pvt. Danny Chen for his funeral procession in New York in this Oct. 13 file photo.
Army prosecutors will be in a tough spot pursuing charges of negligent homicide and involuntary manslaughter against five soldiers in connection with the death of an Asian-American GI whose family and advocates say was the victim of racial taunting, bullying and hazing, according to military law experts.
Pvt. Danny Chen, 19, of New York, was found dead in a guard tower in southern Afghanistan from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot on Oct. 3, according to Army investigators.
Eight soldiers, including an officer, were charged Wednesday in connection with Chen's death, and five were accused of the most serious charges -- involuntary manslaughter to negligent homicide. They “relate to conduct that occurred in the time leading up to his death,” Dave Connolly, chief public affairs officer for Regional Command South in Afghanistan, wrote in an email, declining to provide further detail.
Chen, the son of immigrants from southern China, was not depressed but had suffered emotional and physical abuse in the military: He was dragged from his bed and made to crawl while rocks were thrown at his back and was forced to hold liquid in his mouth while doing chin-ups during his two months in Afghanistan, according to accounts from his family, who said they got the information from Army investigators. He also endured racial taunting, including having his last name said in a goat-like voice and other soldiers calling him Jackie Chan, while undergoing training in Georgia, according to letters he wrote to his family and diary entries, said Elizabeth OuYang, New York branch president of OCA, a national civil rights organization serving Asian Pacific Americans.
At the time of his death, Chen had been in the military for seven months; he had deployed to Afghanistan in August.
The negligent homicide and involuntary manslaughter charges in cases of hazing leading to suicide in the U.S. military appear to be a first, said Grover Baxley, a former member of the U.S. Air Force Judge Advocate General (JAG) Corps, and Hank Nuwer, who has done decades of research on hazing in schools and the military.
“It’s interesting that they’re making -- as I see it -- a leap from hazing to being criminally responsible for a self-inflicted gunshot death,” said Baxley.
He said that in similar cases where the government had gotten hazing convictions, prosecutors could argue in the sentencing phase that hazing was an aggravating factor contributing to death.
“In the Army case, they've taken it a step further and they're actually charging them with criminal responsibility for … Private Chen’s death, and that’s a big distinction,” he said.
Prosecutors still must present their evidence at an “Article 32” hearing – the equivalent of a grand jury in civilian law – after which an investigating officer will determine whether to sustain the charges.
Negligent homicide is defined in military law as "the killing of another person through simple negligence," Baxley said. The US Legal website defines involuntary manslaughter as "manslaughter without any malice or intention," it said.
Under the negligent homicide charge, the government must show that Chen’s death not only resulted from a negligent act by the soldiers but was the “proximate cause” of it, said Baxley, who now has a private practice, JAG Defense.
“That is, that Pvt. Chen’s death was the natural and probable result of the soldiers’ negligent acts,” he wrote in an email. “While I have not seen the evidence in this case … if repeated acts of hazing by numerous individuals are the ‘negligent acts’ that form the basis for the charge, it’s going to be difficult to demonstrate that any one particular soldier’s behavior was the proximate cause of Pvt. Chen’s self-inflicted gunshot wound.”
Greg Rinckey, a former attorney with the U.S. Army JAG Corps, said he agreed with that assessment and noted that the defense would likely try to find evidence, for example, that Chen was fragile, had previously been suicidal or didn’t want to deploy. “They’re going to look at all these things to try and shift the blame from these soldiers are the proximate cause as to, ‘No, the proximate cause was he was predisposed really to suicide,’” he said.
The most serious charges also could be a way of trying to pressure one or more of the defendants into cooperating with prosecutors in exchange for lesser charges or immunity, Rinckey said.
Little is known about the Army's case at this point, but prosecutors "might have a hard time proving this. What could very well happen in a case like this is there could be a plea,” said Rinckey, managing partner of Tully Rinckey PLLC.
“It’s the first person that comes forward is usually the one that gets the sweetest deal,” he added.
A combination of factors – racial, political, a military superior focused on ending hazing – could have also led the Army to impose the rare charges, said Nuwer, an author of several books on the issue.
“Look at the climate in the country. There is a lot of public outcry over the death of Robert Champion at Florida A&M … and it’s kind of outraged the country,” he said, referring to the hazing death of a university band member on Nov. 19. “The other is the hazing has gotten to a point where we’ve now had a death in a fraternity or athletic team or band in a college every year from 1970 to 2011, and sometimes more than that.”
Nuwer, who noted that he was unaware of any similar charges being filed in a civilian court, said that hazing and harassment are rarely aimed at causing death
The soldiers at Combat Outpost Palace in the Panjwa'i district of Kandahar province, where Chen was stationed, may have been trying to push him out of the service or giving him the chance to change his behavior, he said.
“It’s going to be very rare that somebody tries to drive somebody to suicide,” Nuwer said of the hazing. “There’s a theatrical aspect to it. The verbal abuse is often manufactured and escalated to put a lesson into the person, and in effect, the men are often acting for each other. ...
“Then you have a kind of group think that takes over, and a kind of group energy where the whole group together does things to the individual that all of them alone would not have done.”
The military has a "zero-tolerance" policy of hazing, but it still happens, experts say.
“It's a delicate balancing act, because it’s always been in the military and it’s always going to be,” Rinckey said. “It’s very hard for soldiers and sailors that are going to be going into combat together to not have initiation rituals.”
But, he noted: “I think the military is beginning to take hazing very seriously and I think this case is a highlight of that … to how serious they’ll take it, where they’ll charge soldiers with manslaughter and negligent homicide.”
One recent case was that of Lance Cpl. Harry Lew, who was hazed by fellow Marines, according to a U.S. military report on his April 3 death. The military accused three Marines of beating Lew hours before he killed himself and charged them with hazing. They face court martial, The San Jose Mercury News reported.
After a Wednesday morning press conference held in New York by Chen’s family and Asian-American advocates, a senior Pentagon official offered condolences to the soldier’s relatives.
“We treat each other with respect and dignity or we go home -- that’s it,” Navy Capt. John Kirby said, according to a Pentagon news service report. “The tolerance is absolutely zero and the system itself, because it works and works well, is in fact, a deterrent to future behavior.”
“Unfortunately, you’re never going to be 100 percent perfect in this. And there’s going to be those few who want to (flout) what the uniform stands for and what the regulations require … when that happens they’re going to be dealt with.”
Chen's family and advocates are not convinced that his death was a suicide, despite the initial finding that he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, and have asked forensic expert Henry Lee to conduct an independent autopsy. Chen's mother, Su Zhen, 49, said she had not wanted her only child to join the Army and at the press conference said she “could not figure out why they (the soldiers) would do this to him."
OuYang, of the OCA, said her organization does not want the defendants to be allowed to plea bargain.
"It's one thing to charge them with high charges, but it means nothing if they plea bargain to something very low," she said. "... If they are responsible for his death they need to be charged and found guilty of that."
Leave a Comment:
There is more to this story than is being told.
I agree....something does not add up here.....the details are way too sketchy....
replytoj001
You are so right. It is about to hit the fan. If he had access to a live weapon, do you think he would have allowed them to bully and beat him? I don't think so. The military knows the truth but want everyone to think it is suicide.
You are soooo right!!!!!
You guys are obviously not from the military. Hazing does happen. Usually its the minor type of hazing that all servicepeople go through at first. However, when a person tries to buck the system/tradition or acts out against the hazing, it can turn from minor to major in a hurry, especially if you have kids who are trying to be "old school" marines. If you don't understand that mentality, go watch the famous bathroom scene from Full Metal Jacket.
Hazing in and of itself is not the problem, its when people take it to far to try and break a person a down to fit a mold. Some people will not break down that way and it causes them to become unstable and either lash outward or inward.
I have a mild case of claustrophobia, so I know the idea of putting me in a bag and not letting me out really sends chills down my spine.
I did a lit review and the only legitimate references were to "pre-modern" mental hospitals and indigent institutions (alms houses or pest houses.) Then the prevailing belief was that harsh stimuli or lack of all stimuli could cause the human brain to "rewire" itself. They did things like putting them in bags or immobilizing them to potty chairs with straps, immersing them in ice water, immersing them in 150-degree baths, etc.
Autism spectrum disorders most impact communications and relationship skills. Autistic kids are easily frustrated, not because they're stupid --- few than average are --- but because they don't understand the basic elements of language or how to relate to other people. I can see that there might be some germ of an idea that someone putting a kid in a bag would shut down a lot of stimuli and enable them to get an autistic kid's attention. But it still closer to medieval medicine than anything modern or useful.
There is a point where ISTJ teachers step over the line and do things more correctly termed "child abuse" than discipline. This is such a case. If you did this to a prisoner in a federal prison, you could end up in the same prison yourself. The legal area that the school system stepped into is called "in loco parentis" and means "in the place of parents." A teacher should never do anything to a child without checking with the parents beforehand. If the parent wouldn't use that discipline, then a teacher may not.
IMHO I think that all the "teachers" involved, including those who simply saw it, knew it was wrong, and did nothing about it, immediately have their teaching certificates revoked and the cases referred to the DA for possible criminal prosecution.
What is the difference between this type of "hazing" and the high school "bullying" that leads to kids committing suicide? It sounds like "hazing" is just an adult word for "bullying". In either children or adults it is wrong. Maybe we need the same kind of anti-bullying programs that we are using with our kids to be required of so called adults in the military.
Hazing? Hmmm, how does that compare to Marine Corps boot camp? Well, Marine Corps boot camp a long time ago... ...did they happen to hit him in the side of the head with a rifle (Hey Stratton!)? Or have him kneel for a couple of hours holding a full foot locker in his outstretched arms (rather have my teeth drilled sans novo than do that again)? Yes, the kid was probably picked on but how did he get there if he was so vulnerable to psychological stress? And Humanzees, by nature, are not so different from chickens in their hierarchies, particularly when they are under 24/7 stress as any American in Kandahar might be presumed to be and have every right to be. Do not mistake me here. This is a tragedy, but a seriously complicated tragedy involving ALL players. Schwartz had ultimate authority in the local unit and, being experienced enough to be a 1st louie, had responsibility to recognise a deteriorating situation amongst his men which, at the least, he should have discussed with his Captain. And on and on and on... Let's just bring them all home and quit twisting them into wounded souls and destroying any inner peace they might hope for in their future lives, which is what PTSD really means. Are untapped mineral deposits so worth this destruction of our children?
Military leaders in that unit were certainly negligent. They each had a duty to look out for their soldiers. By allowing bullying to go on, by allowing racial slurs to be hurled at this soldier, they each failed their duty and are therefore guilty as charged.
You're right because this story told almost nothing. When are people in this country going to grow up? Hazing is grade school bullying by people who are supposed to be old enough to know better.
Ultimately, suicide is self inflicted. No matter what others do to you, no matter how hard they haze or harass or mistreat, you always have the choice to live or die. Unless someone else pulls the trigger and that is not, by all accounts, what happened. It's sad because they probably did contribute to his making the decision to commit suicide but it was not their intent, not their goal. Their intent could have been anything from drive him away ("encourage" him to seek a transfer out) to toughen him up.
You're rationalizing their atrocious behavior. Making excuses for and minimizing it. Typical of America today.
If these guys are found guilty they should all be strung up in public viewing for what they have done.
Rest in peace, Danny Chen. Thank you for your service.
"Their intent could have been anything from drive him away ("encourage" him to seek a transfer out) to toughen him up."
Boot camp is suppose to set the standard for toughness. These arrogant/abusive 'brothers and sisters' felt they were in the position to decide otherwise. The military is suppose to be a brotherhood.
Much like a sick person that would abuse a small defenseless animal, these people picked and prodded at the most vulnerable.
- OIF Veteran
You're rationalizing bullying. He was in the military. Have you ever served? He could not get away and had to do what an officer and platoon leader told him to do.
Your defense falls apart in light of Army's anti-suicide campaign of the last two years. It is very much against current training to ignore a soldier on the edge - these were all NCOs and a 1LT who were in a position to know better.
But Douglas, they have no right to cause anyone to transfer out of the unit just because they don't like something about him/her. Such behaviour is contrary to the combat mission. For this young Chinese man, his sad experience was expecially tragc since he had joined the army against his parents' wishes. Disrepect to your elders is still a grave offense in Chinese society, so he had no way out. I am deeply shocked and saddened by this article.
Yeah Douglas, maybe he should've just 'toughed it out' right? From the sounds of this article the bastards that hazed him to his suicide will probably get off scot-free as it is. Should make you happy eh?
I think that before blaming anybody of his death the investigation has to be concluded. If this is in fact suicide, Why trying to blame the rest of the world for this person's actions?. On the other hand if other people result responsible for his death, then there are laws that apply.
Douglas4517-4271807: You have no idea what you are talking about. I read your comment but I'm not convinced of your extremely weak argument in any way, shape, or form. You are mindless and heartless.
Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never harm me. However, in this case you get charged with murder.
Crawl on all fours while your fellows throw rocks at your back and bleat at you like a goat. Half a world away in a combat zone. Stop being a loser.
ok After considering what you said LT, murder charges apply. ok I never said they didn't deserve punished. But since you know better than anyone else, murder it is. Thank you oh God of wisdom trolls.
First off sir(he is a LCDR btw), it was in Korea, a non-combat zone, and I realize the officer life isn't nearly as intense as it is for us enlisted, but a little bit of brotherly fun is one thing, but if what I understand to be true(that it was beyond the little bit of fun and he wasn't mentally ill), then they soldiers in question are in fact guilty.
The military is supposed to be a brotherhood and those soldiers treat their own like that--until he commits suicide. WTF is wrong with people? This world is not as civilized as we like to think it is. Bullies should have the crap beaten out of them, or maybe just be shot--they're begging for one of the two. If individual lives were really so important as advertised in this country this kind of stuff would not be happening.
i DONT believe in the brother hood @!$%# !! i stand my own , only ones i beleive are my family.. so trained yourself some physical and be alert mental then you will be fine on your won.. confront one enemey at a time domestic or foreign but stand strong cause life is short live it happily , not freely but happily
Actually it was in Afganistan
Many things don't add up. There is nothing honorable in hazing, or bullying... interesting isn't it just how many people hate others for all the wrong reasons and get away with it.
I can't believe this story. Was there anybody at all in his unit who cared about him? There was a girl in my unit that the other girls wanted to "teach a lesson". Some said that if not everybody participated THEY would be the next to get "reconditioned". Most of us wouldn't participate but it was done anyway. Me and some of the other girls anonymously wrote a letter to the commander--not mentioning any names(they KNEW what was going on). The matter was taken care of and the intended victim went on to graduate from basic training and was a very good soldier. All it would have taken was one other person to say something. Has the military turned into high school? I retired from the military and I've never looked back. My prayers go out to this family.
The people that are still alive usually are the ones with a story to tell. The lesson here is if one is not part of the military family, it's best for one to leave that occupation when faced with continual mobbing from your comarades...not worth getting taking out in the middle of no where with no legal recourse.
Controlled hazing in basic training to weed out the soldiers that can not handle the task is a normal process. Continual mobbing while you are in the theatre of war is murderous. There is a difference...not an apple to apple comparison.
It would be suicidal for a person to report this problem. In the middle of no where, I think it would be hard to jump the chain of command. Self preservation is good motivation to keep quiet & let attrocities carried out in ones presence...well, maybe if ones a bulletproof superhero then a selfless act would be possible...or a martyr for the cause of justice.
falco, I take exception to your call to look away in the face of atrocities. Isn't that how genocide usually begins ?
Genocide, extermination, what's in a name? Unfortunely when one is truely faced with life or death, most will choose the easier path & stay alive for another day & let people around them perish (better you than me)...it's a simple fact of life...it will never change.
If in fact they are guilty, they need to be punished to the fullest extent the UCMJ will allow. texasbob:I agree with you, somehow I think we are only hearing part of the story.
Don't understand how this went on and on......what sort of commanding officers did this young man serve under, that he couldn't turn to them to put the kibosh on this disgusting behavior.
"interesting isn't it just how many people hate others for all the wrong reasons and get away with it."
Brenda, what you stated says a lot. There is no place for hate between the people in the ranks. When your in combat, you should not have to worry if those in your squad has your back or not. Sure, they may not have to like you, but they need to remember that both of you are there to do a job, and they need to remember who it is that they are there to fight.
When your in combat, you should not have to worry if those in your squad has your back or not.
And therein lies the conundrum. The reason given in earlier articles was that he was repeatedly falling asleep on guard at a forward outpost way out in "indian country", as other less severe, official and unofficial remedies had already been tried, to no avail. Not excusing what was done, just trying to fill in some gaps.
canemah, you say there is no excuse but you are "explaining", which is excusing. If he fell alseep during guard duty, he endangered his comrades' lives. Wouldn't there be a procedure to have him transferred to a different line of duty ? Certainly, reporting that would not run under "ratting someone out." And it certainly does not condone throwing stones at him. Very strange.
Did they report it and the CO ignored them ?
I know that one point of view that no one wants to hear and that hasn't been very strongly presented, is that perhaps these men genuinely thought they were helping Pvt. Chen "toughening" him up, as it were. Growing up, I was the little guy in my group of friends, and frankly, they were all a bunch of jerks to me and treated me at least as badly as these men treated Pvt. Chen. But, when it came down to anyone else trying to bully me or harass me, they were behind me 100%. I'm not saying that this is how it should be, but many of those guys I grew up with have themselves grown up, and several have apologized for how horribly they treated me. Young men in a high-stress situation tend to enter pack-type mentalities, and this often cranks the pressure up on those who don't fit the "norm" for the group. Again, I'm not trying to justify these men's actions, but everyone seems to be assuming their actions came about from an attitude of hate, rather than ignorance and youthfulness. No one seems to have considered the fact that some of these men may have genuinely liked Pvt. Chen, or that any of them, men who served side by side with him in a foreign country, may themselves have been saddened and shocked at his death. My prayers go out to Pvt. Chen, his family, and all our men and women serving overseas.
Canemah (#8.1), 
Check your source carefully before you make your statements about a tragic death. Chen did not fall asleep on guard repeatedly. No articles I read on this subject (and I read quite a few) mentioned that. That behavior mentioned in several related hazing articles referred to another earlier case with the soldier named Harry Lew. Fabricating such accusation about Chen is simply insult upon injury, in this case death. The only dereliction mentioned for Chen was he was made to crawl and had rocks thrown at him for forgetting to turn off the heater (you ever done that in your own home?). You should feel ashamed.
Karen, Very nice. That is the way things should work. Folks, it shouldn't be hard to follow Karen's example. If you, or someone with you, or someone you know, has an impulse to hurt, help turn it into an impulse to help. It feels damn good when you do!!! It feels great!!!!!
that's one of the best things I've ever seen written on newsvine. thank you thank you thank you
I feel sorry for Pvt. Chen, But I would have emptied a full magazine into them or thrown a grenade into their tent when they were sleeping at night. If I am in the military and you try to haze or bully me, you get KIA in the next firefight we are in. I would have lots of weapons at my disposal.
ludivinedeflot. please go get some professional help. You have serious mental problems if you would commit mass murder because someone would call your name in a goat like fashion or call you Jackie Chan.
huh. and if he had would you be one of the multitudes trashing him for having taken his revenge?
Please do not join the military! If you are in the military go to Mental Hygiene and get help! I and others have endured worse in the Army in Basic Training! There is a chain of command to report abuse! However telling your CO that someone called you Jackie Chan or said Chen in a goat like fashion will get you on the @!$%# list! You will become a detail man! Detail man ends up doing the @!$%# details! He might actually have to burn @!$%# with a can of diesel fuel! There are details slowly coming out like Chen sleeping on guard duty! If he did he was guilty of dereliction of duty! He seemed to have done some other things to have possibly put himself on the @!$%# list! It is terrible he killed himself! But if was asleep on guard duty he would have gotten himself and the other soldiers killed! It is not a game! He is watching for the enemy and it was his duty to stay awake and alert! We had a clown who went to sleep on fire guard in Basic he got his ass beat by the Drill Sergeant! You do not go to sleep on guard duty! I am surprised he was not burned for sleeping on guard duty they must have covered for him! They were probably trying to just get him to perform as a soldier! He also did not clear his weapon! Apparently he was not fit for combat!
Roodles, the only professional help I would need is getting rid of your carcass.
Robert-2525896, you were not in the military.
Roberts (#10.3) You are another one who should check out your source carefully before you trash the victim. Where did you read about Chen falling asleep on guard duty? You proably confused that with other reports that mentioned another bully-suicide of a soldier called Harry Lew for falling asleep on guard duty. That is insult upon injury for Chen, and for his family. You, sir, either show us unequivocally your source, or apologize and then STFU.
The "experts" are ignoring the fact that Chen kept a journal detailing their actions.
Did he write in that journal how he was sleeping on guard duty! If he was then he was guilty of dereliction of duty! Sleeping on guard duty will get someone killed! You are supposed to be awake, alert and watching for the enemy not taking a siesta! Did he write in that journal how he didn't clear his weapon? Not clearing you weapon could get someone killed! It is possible he accidentally killed himself with his weapon! It sounds like he wasn't much of a soldier! It's the Army! They are in combat! They are not in some high school class room calling each other names on the internet! Calling him Jackie Chan or saying his name in a goat like fashion is nothing! Have you served in the military? Most of you have not served and are looking at this from the position of an armchair General!
Robert (#10.3, 11.1). Your whole justification of this bullying is built of your "fact" that Chen slept while on guard duty. Perhaps you care to cite source. Perhaps you might have confused that with another earlier case with a soldier called Harry Lew. If you can't substatiate, then have the balls to be a man, apologize and retract your false accusations, and then STFU.
Hazing, initiations, and bullying - what's the difference? Negligent homicide sounds like a good charge if Pvt. Chen did, in fact, commit suicide.
I read one officer is in the group being charged; that's a failure of leadership and that's where a majority of the fault lies. We are in Afghanistan to "free the oppressed" yet we oppress one of our own?
I agree. I am positive that I would NOT have taken that abuse lightly and I am POSITIVE I would have found a way to retaliate. What kind of commander. ONE that is so sure of his superiority that he/she believes they are Gods and can and do what ever they want.
It's to bad this is going to be a hard case to prove. If there is even a thin hairs truth to this, that COMMANDING OFFICER is the one to blame. HE/SHE is suppose to PROTECT AND SERVE ALL under their command. What a terrible abuse of power!
Our condolence to the family of Chen.
AND our condolence to the families of those responsible for that death. To know that you raised a murderer must make them so proud! Especially this time of the year.
I have to agree with you on this one.I'm 65 now,but when I was in the service,I was subject to the same situation.Telling my CO of the abuse and hasing that was being done to me,just fell to deaf ears as if it was part of the game.Several times I wound up in the base hospital with internal injuries after being thrown off a steep embankment,or thrown from a moving 2 1/2 ton truck,so I know exactly what this GI felt.It's about time that JAG started to hang penalties on Hasers and their CO's
Sounds like Chen was a dud and unsuitable to military life. If one pulls his own weight, regardless of color, they most likely don't get the treatment this guy got. I don't condone it, wouldn't want it happening in my unit but I think it is a stretch even to say he killed himself. No note, no threat to kill himself? Sounds to me like an accidental discharge and a giant leap to charge the other soldiers.
wow, blame the victim, huh? guess u think women who get raped were askin for it?
@ Rich. Bull@!$%#. You have him transfered out of your unit, you dont continue to beat the crap out of him and let him stay. If you are that concerned about your unit, and the men serving under you, and you have someone that cant pull their own wait, you reassign them to duties more suited to their abilities or you get them out of your unit. This officer had little god syndrome, and it shows by keeping chen around as a personal whipping boy.
Kind of too bad you do not know WTF you are talking about.
You know how I can tell you never got closer than your television to military service, Rich?
Hey meth head, you have got your head so far up your azz, I'm positive you cannot tell shat from shinola but that is besides the point. I didn't blame the guy and I haven't condoned the actions of his unit. I am just sayin, everyone who pulled their weight typically weren't picked on. I served with a great deal of nationalities and personalities and have great respect for everyone who does their share. And yes it would have been a priority to move this guy to another unit. Based on the article, yes he was bullied, but no evidence to say that someone pulled the trigger on him or if he even committed suicide. However, I enjoyed your comments and taking into account your reactions to my comment , you would have fit in nicely with his leadership.
*Colonel Jessep, did you order the Code Red?*
*You can't handle the truth!*
odd, had i been in the military, it would seem to me the best course of action would be to be best of friends with everyone i can, after all these are the people that i would be shoulder to shoulder with in the foxhole so to speak. I would be putting my life in their hands in some situations, makes sense to make sure they think my life is worth something and that i would think theirs is equally important. guess these "hazers" didnt care. whatever happened to "brothers in arms" ? sad.
Drezz you said it all "had I been ...." you were not - you would have been "virgin bait" in the military. "Brothers in Arms" are found in very bad television sitcoms not in the real world.
so our military are nothin but a bunch of selfish brutes with no respect for life at all is what your sayin?
These soldiers are a disgrace to the uniform. HOpe they are all found guilt and spend time in prison. They killed a good young man because of they are bigots. They are animals.
Something is rotten in America, because war crimes are impossible to prosecute, tortured Muslims to death are ruled suicide and this obvious crime is going to be too hard to prove? And why is that? Oh, I forgot, we don't have justice, but appearances of justice and in the latter, your guess is as good as mine.
We have become so "rogue" that not even people who you might consider honest, fair don't even notice it or want to acknowledge it and the icing on the cake has to be that "Christian and democratic" BS that we preach to other nations that don't even come close to the level of our war crimes, genocides. And the hypocrisy to the nth degree, has to be this "judicial system" that goes after Pvt Manning like a terrorist for reporting war crimes being commited by our "heroes" when the Code of Conduct, the Constitution that all members of the armed forces swear to uphold are killing them. I thought it was the duty of congress, the supreme farce to at least give the appearances of applying justice, but it's obvious that in lieu of justice, we have the fox in charge of the coop, and that is no justice, but a heard of bull.
“While I have not seen the evidence in this case … if repeated acts of hazing by numerous individuals are the ‘negligent acts’ that form the basis for the charge, it’s going to be difficult to demonstrate......"
Anyone serving in the military has seen varying degree of "gang behavior", this type of behavior inflicted on a sensitive soul can cause that individual to break down or take his own life. I have seen it first hand when I was in the Navy years ago. Picture a talented trained concert pianist playing classical music in a rec room on a Navy base and imagine what a bunch of rednecks would do to him. Where the military fails is their officer corp would rather sweep this behavior under the rug than get involved. It happened in the 60's and human nature hasn't changed in the years following.
If in fact this was a hazing (call it what it is mob warfare) the NCO's and the officer in charge are the ones needing to be brought up on charges right along with the participants.
Unless you have seen this crap first hand I can understand why you can't believe it - but it is fact, pure plain and simple.
As a former Platoon Sergeant, I find these peoples actions inexcusable. From the Squad leader all the way up the chain of command as far as this goes should be called into account. These soldiers are not only a disgrace to the uniform but the NCOs involved have viloated a sacred trust otherwise known as the NCO Creed. www.army.mil/yearofthenco/creed wil give you insight as to how an Army NCO is expected to conduct him or herself . I'm old school. I retired in 2001, but I cannot imaginne the NCO Corp has changed that much as to be that callous of the needs of their subordinates. I think this group of NCOs must be the exception. At least I hope they are. Most of the NCOs both junior and senior I served with over 26 years always put the welfare of their people first.
Its obvious most have you have never served in the Military, or a line Infantry unit. The Military is NOT a place for touchy feely.
Its a bunch of 20 year old "Alpha males" always trying to give 100% in defense of our nation.
Anytime someone is not seen as giving 100%, or doesnt pull their weight gets "ragged on". It can go from playful verbal encouragement, to pushups, or to"the woodline".
Rob I HAVE served in the military, and back in WW 1 and WW 2 your "Alpha Male"description as retarded as it is may have, repeat MAY have a small element of truth. However the mentality of today's person in the military has a different mind set and mentality more suited for high tech weaponry (geek level) and much more knowledgeable of world affairs and whyREMF's in the congress and white house puts them in harms way without cause (Iraq). The real problem here is that the officer corp of the military - just like before and during Vietnam were unprepared for the reality of war and for the most part incapable of true leadership.
I can not believe any real officer would not be aware of issues such as this and not take VERY FIRM action against the mob. It is dereliction of duty plain and simple.
Well stated!
Boomer, I agree with you but I think it goes a bit further. The failure here starts at least at the company commander lever (maybe higher) and includes everyone, officer and NCO, right down to Pvt Chen. They all failed him.
No one said he wasn't pulling his weight. That is not mentioned in the article. We don't know WHY this was done, yet. As a taxpayer, I do not want to pay for these kind of people to be in our military. They should grow up and be real adults who have a serious job to do.
If he was not suited to military service, there are channels for addressing such issues. His leadership had a sworn duty to lead all the men in their charge, both high and low performers. If this is documented well and his Lt and NCOs are proved to have participated in, initiated, suggested, condoned, or had knowledge of behavior that was outlined as prohibited by the Army they are done in a big way.
As for his immediate peers, prohibited behavior is prohibited behavior. They will be held responsible for their actions. Isolating a member of your combat team in a war zone is especially troubling behavior to hear about. Grab ass, horse play and practical jokes are bonding events in teams put in dangerous, remote combat assignments. Isolating a member of a team as a weak hen and plucking him to blood loss is way over the line - and illegal.
The Lt and NCOs set the tone for this unit and have a legal charge in creating the appropriate atmosphere for a positive enviornment for all soldiers in their charge, top or marginal performers alike.
If true, this is a disturbing peak into the souls of this Lt and his NCOs, a gathering of personality disorders, a perfect storm for a honorable young man who wanted to serve his country. RIP Brother, you deserved better.
On the civilian side of the house, it would be called Creating a hostile work environment and is just as illegal.
a lot of the prosecutions done today are done by prosecutors reaching for the stars. i am not a lawyer but the kid did take his own life. it sounds like someone else is being prosecuted for murder?
Bauer, you are lucky - apparently you were never bullied at school, you never served in the military, and otherwise led a sheltered existence. It sounds to me like Chen had a choice, kill the bastards and be charged with murder, go AWOL in a war zone (not a smooth move), or do what he did simply because the OIC did not do his duty.
What really pisses me off is all of you REMF's who never had the guts to serve your country pass judgement on something (a life style) you can never understand yet do not have the brains to STF!
Um, no... he had a few more options than that. I don't condone hazeing in a combat zone, but it happens. There are a lot of different ways to get past your chain of command if they aren't doing their job. Also, I'd like to know where they were stationed in Afghanistan? The way this article is written you would think it was just this small group of people in a little patrol base with apparently no connection to the outside world or anyone above a platoon commander? Really? Doesn't sound right to me... what would I know though, I was just a grunt in the Marines and an OIF vet.
It's all about honor. These men know what they did or did not do. What they definitely did not do was to put team cohesion above their own personal issues. They have brought shame upon their unit and their service.
I cannot believe some of these comments. You are laying the blame on the victim? I'm willing to be this kid was a good soldier. As a retired Navy chief, I have seen harrassment...and squashed it! There is no room in the service for these types of people. I always told my guys.."you won't care what the color or gender is if there is a hand there to help you in times of trouble". I cannot understand where his chain of command was. Sympathies to the family.
Spot on Chief! THANK YOU!
EqualityforAll53: I agree with you. As a former Platoon Sergeant. This is exactly the kind of crap I would never tolerate. If this kind of incident occured, I would make it a priority to resolve it immediately. If that meant replacing a Squad Leader for allowing it, then so be it. if that meant a Field Grade Article 15 or other non-judicial punishment for the parties involved that worked too. One of the responsibilities of the NCO is to insure teamwork, Whether it be in the Squad, the Platoon, the Comapny or the Battalion no exceptions. Any NCO not willing to do his job in the area of unit cohesion should be replaced.
EqualityforAll53,
Are you a 'Shellback' or did you go through your 'Chief's Initiation'???
BOTH are forms of hazing are are a accepted part of the Military Traditions...
There is more to this story and the above comments are telling more facts about what transparent...
IMO - A little hazing is better than charges that would have terminated his future military career. But I'm old school Marine and we took care of our own...
AC Robertson.. are you crazy??? or space out? hazing and bullying a soldier even in the combat zone in afghanistan do you think still part of traditon? " a little hazing is better than charges that would have his future career" -- so you rationalizing their atrocious behaviour huh? typical of american mentality today