What gives? Maybe more Americans are in prison so they can't commit more crimes.

Crime started dropping 20 years after Roe v. Wade. The drop in violent crimes is 100% due to legalizing abortion. The crime rate drops in every society 20+ years after legalizing abortion.

This is one ugly truth. No one talks about it because of political reasons, but every government statistician knows this. The contributors knew this too, they just wont publish it for fear of an outcry. Countries with the highest homicide rates are counties where abortion is illegal. This is a 100% fact, the data is overwhelming. It cannot be argued.

Workingpoor,

I like your sick sense of humor and hope it will continue be affected this way.

Maybe people are worried about keeping their record clean while applying for work.

People are too hungry and don't have the strength to commit crimes.

Tpaine, there were many fewer "unwanted" twenty year olds around then,and it continues today. working poor is referring to the demographic statistically proven to most likely be criminals. Cannot disagree with him myself. :(

I had been a correctional officer for many years, the inmates we house were usually the same inmates returning. Recidism. Here in Texas , a bad apple would usually stay a bad apple.

"It’s also part of a broader, longer-term trend: Between 1991 and 2010, the homicide rate fell 51 percent and property crimes dropped 64 percent. Crime rates decreased significantly during the 1990s before flattening out at the start of the new century" . . . 18 years after legalizing abortion. No one wants to write this, but; keeping abortion legal is more important for the greater good of our nation, rather then it being viewed an a individual rights issue.

I'm sure the war on terror has nothing to do with it. The old wisdom for keeping youths out of trouble is to keep them busy. It could be even lower if nearly a million citizens weren't charged with the non-crime of marijuana posession last year.

true story blahblah

What ever you do don't attribute it to all the cameras everywhere that monitor every move you make, and land the criminals in jail within 24 hours of committing a crime. no don't do that it has to be that we are destroying the criminals in the womb before they are borne and have a chance to grow up and commit a crime makes perfect sense. and it cant be because we have 30% more law enforcement that's not possible! of course police assisted suicide is doing pretty good, for every cop that gets shot about 30 criminals get shot, maybe all the would be criminals are some how getting a regular pay check, and don't have to mug, rob, or burglarize. what ever it is its working for the time being. but don't hold your breath.

Your average criminal is basically lazy or uneducated, if they are receiving enough to support their habits/needs there is no reason to rob somebody and we all pay dearly to support the underprivileged in our society, we spend more and more every year, so basically if we arent paying them off we are locking them up. yes its that simple.

Drop in crime is directly related to medical marijuana and MORE people using it recreationally.

True keeping all the criminals stoned is working. and that opens the job market for all the functional people. of course there is the 6 million dollars in twinkees shoplifted every year small price to pay.

The fact of the matter is after wall street finishes with us there is nothing left to steel.

@ Justin & D Buck,

Yes improved technology has played a role in lowering the violent crime rate, and the subject at hand can also be hard to come to grips with. But take 20 minutes to research this; Globally, in general, countries that outlaw abortion have homicide rates of >20 per 100,000. In countries where abortion is legal, the rate is closer to 1-2 per 100,000. Its safer to live in countries where abortion is legal. humanity . . . .

Perhaps it is related to the rise in gun ownership and the fact that every state but Illinois and Washington DC have concealed carry laws. Who wants to risk committing a crime against someone knowing there is a very good chance that the intended victim could fight back and even kill you?! Need further evidence? How about the rise in crime in places like the UK and Australia where guns have been legally banned? For my money, I am placing gun ownership high on the list of many factors that are contributing to the declining crime rate.

How many potential criminals had joined the military where not only do they get paid, employment in otherwords, but they also get the chance to commit crimes?

No, Justin, no one is justifying the "murder of babies." They are pointing out that when abortion is available, the murder rate goes down. It make sense that if this correlation exists, and it does, and that if it is causal, which it almost certainly is, that we explore it.

Personally, I would recommend accurate sex education in all schools (check the sex education statistics, by the way--those states like Oklahoma which ban any mention of sex education other than abstinence probably have a higher rate of murder than those which have accurate sex education--I already know that they have higher rates of teen pregnancy), that all men and women (and boys and girls) are encouraged to use contraceptives--men use condoms and women use contraceptives--unless pregnancy is intended. If we had better sex education and free or low-cost contraception for all, we would probably have both a low abortion rate and a low rate of births among those who are ill-prepared to be parents.

Check out the "double Dutch method"--it works. Abortions should be legal, if rare, but contraception should be much more widely practiced among the young and the poor (and don't tell me that the poor want "welfare babies"--because if they did, they wouldn't be among the population having the highest rate of abortions). Just sayin.

More good citizens are armed ,due to new gun laws that allow law abiding citizens the right to protect them selves. How can you vote if you're not paying attention to whats going on.sheeesh

That sounds like the most unscientific conclusion to something I have ever seen. No looking at other possibilies, such as more cops, longer sentences, use of death penalty. Nope, just murder a few million babies and our crime rate goes down. Heck, maybe if we could kill all people up to age 18, it would go down even further! Something to think about. What a sick society.

Can anyone, Say concealed carry,, it is the best crime stopper I've found.

maybe we should kill everybody and that will solve the crime problem.

Ya think?

As much of a shock and an unwanted truth as it may be, for anyone who doubts the theory of legalized abortions leading to lower crime rates, please check out the book "Freakonomics" - or watch the "movie" on Netflix instantview. The researchers DO explore possibilities such as longer sentences, using the death penalty as a deterrent, more police officers, and new policing methods, and they discovered that all of those things combined for less than a 50% reduction in the crime rate. Legalized abortion seems to be the key. Three states legalized abortion 3 years before Roe v. Wade. About 15 years later, the crime rates in those states began falling. 3 years after that, crime rates began declining in all other states. Wanted children grow up to be better citizens. It's that simple.

What we just don't want to see the correlationt to the President? Why am I not surprised? Typical.

Maybe it has something to do with all the deportations that the Obama administration is always so quick to point out.

Might be a lot of potential criminals have caught an episode or two of CSI.

Yeah....right....I believe the media like I believe I'm going to win the lotto tomorrow.....

Jobless rate up, but crime down: What gives?

lol, What gives? Gee, if the people are out of a job, they have nothing to rob.

Duh, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

Once the job market picks up, then crime again will pick up. People won't be at home as much protecting what little they have.

If you actually follow this story you know why. All the major cities changed their definition of "crime" and "violent crime" If the crime does not qualify for these definitions then it is not counted. Here in Chicago rape is not automatically classified as a crime or violent crime. This is why crime is down. Look out your front door and you will know how much bull this story is.

The truth of the matter is that there are crimes that have been committed and are being committed but with the down sizing of govt these crimes are not being investigated or the perps being charged or put on trial much less being imprisoned because the departments that handle these investigations etc have been downsized or underfunded and the heads of many depts have not been appointed as the t'pubs have fillibustered these appointments.

The crimes that have been committed are white collar crimes especially in the financial industry imo. There is Medicare fraud and other white collar fraud activities in these departments that have exceedingly large budgets like the defense etc, that are ongoing but there are not enough people to do the job of reviews, investigations etc with this push by these t'pubs to downsize government and states who are under financial strain do not have the money to employ more people to do these investigations either and are also laying off workers.

Perhaps some crimes are not being reported as people figure that there is no point in doing so because they may feel it is not going to be investigated. For example how about those sex crimes in Arizona that were reported but not investigated by that sheriff that dresses prisoners in pink and have the prisoners living in tents?

Anyhoo, imagine stealing a car and finding that the chop shop will not be able to sell the parts because everyone is broke around the country and the world for that matter... LOL Afterall we had a global financial crash..... didn't we?

The masses are broke, homeless and starving.... so what is there to get the energy up to steal or to kill for when everybody is in the same hole anyway? LOL

This just goes to show how stupid our sheltered collegiate Americans really are. Especially college professors! Those idiots believe they can figure out how the real world works by using "data". The problem is data has to be evaluated by intellegent people who have not grown up in collegiate bubble's. I'm basically saying you cannot evaluate data if you are a nerd. You have to be educated and live a non sheltered life to come up with real life answers. Ok, here is the perplexing answere for all the professors and college androids who cant figure out why crime is going down. Ready, its really simple, are there not camera's high in the air sitting on street poles in every medium sized city on up? Are there not rumors of wire taping? Hello!! Hello! Mcfly! How is someone going to get away with a crime when after the criminal is done doing the deed he drives home or to a Friends house, right? Well those camera's are placed strategically so when you are out of site of one camera there is another that will pick you up where the other left off. The common man knows this and especially the man on the street. College bubble idiots! They are worthless outside of their college campuses. And the same goes for college graduates. After all they have to be stupid too because only wealthy families can afford to send their kids to college and wealthy children are sheltered tools that grew up in bubbles.

sheltered little college bubble's.

1. The Nation is more totalitarian every day, passing more CommunoFascist laws 'against' the 'enemies of the people' a.k.a. those who dare to question the status quo or resist the grinding of the government gears. People are terrified of the government destroying their life by stealing all their money and property and casting them into the dungeons for years on end, to possibly be raped and beaten by inmates and/or 'officers', and because of that won't dare to commit crimes of economic near-necessity; stealing groceries for example.

2. The hardened sociopath criminal element in the USA is worse and worse every year. More ethnic hatreds, bigotry, fears and blame-laying on 'other' ethnic groups, more selling each other out to the State or pleading guilty when facing bleak years in prison, more retaliatory attacks on family members of criminals, a bazillion immigrants from all over the place who can't even talk to one another in a common language, caucasian prisoners feeling scared and backed against a wall and thus forced to match the 'ethnic pride' rubbish of their black and brown brethren.

3. The near cannabalism of our "Cash as God" gangster-bankster capitalist consumeroid system, where the mall has replaced the church, mosque or temple as the holiest of holy lands.

DROP OFF THE GRID as much as possible, peacefully resist until the last possible minute, and then strike.

The reason is called: technology. Many potential criminals are not stupid. The stupid ones generally end up in jail quickly. Most potential crooks know that with the ubiquity of surveillance now, they will get caught. Even phones now have GPS and locator services, not to mention a built-in camera that potentially could be turned on remotely. Automobiles and homes also have sophisticated camera systems (often with multiple locations that are hidden). And of course autos have had Lojack for decades now, and today even more sophisticated tracking methods.

The potential crooks that aren't stupid are simply not trying something they don't have a good chance of getting away with. That probably can account for at least half or more of the decline in and of itself.

Other reasons could simply be the aging population. Older miscreants just don't have the ability to do much except white collar crime. Especially given that the obesity rate has been escalating in the last 20 years: many potential crooks are either too awkwardly fat or doddering from age or both.

1. The person that wrote Freakonomics is one of the greatest young economists of our time.

2. Concealed weapons don't deter as much as you think. Violent criminals usually don't think through potential consequences, hence why the death penalty and stricter sentences really don't work for many preventing many types of crime. They might for petty thugs, but there are just as many that are ready for a fight even if you have a gun. I grew up with gangs so I am speaking from experience. I'm not against guns, but I think people should be more aware of the facts than just using flawed common sense or sound bites from interest groups and politicians.

3. I don't think abortions are a good idea, but to say that an adult should die before a fetish because one has a chance to live reflects garbage for logic. Life is life. It is all precious. Since both sides of the debate won't budge, the best way to go is for both sides to agree to support effective and EVIDENCE based sex ed and contraceptive usage. The world is not a battle ground between good people and bad people. It's a complex mess of people with varying interests being influenced by varying incentives. Most people are trying to do good, when they do wrong, it is usually because they don't see or realize the incentives to do otherwise.

4. Regardless of what the media, religious groups, and political interests groups say, the data shows that the world is getting more peaceful. There are still problems but the data shows not just less crime, but less death from war, less discrimination, etc.

Zimring didn't go back far enough. If you look at the Great Depression, you'll find reduced crime correlated to an economic downturn in the same way it is today. People tend to turn to each other for help in hard times. Instead of envy and rage we have grateful and helpful.

The problem is data has to be evaluated by intellegent people who have not grown up in collegiate bubble's. I'm basically saying you cannot evaluate data if you are a nerd

sounds like somone is jealous of those that are better educated than him.

I can only shake my head at your post John.

It's not fair...now the law-abiding citizens have guns, too........

I think the reason the crime rate has gone down, is because the real criminals are now most of our politicians, who MAKE the laws, and always seem outside the law, and the corporations. The legalizing of "medical" (give me a break) marijuana, has also reduced arrests.

Sooooo, once again, Joe Biden is a blithering LUNATIC. Remember, he recently claimed in front of the media the Republican policies are causing continued high unemployment, because they wouldn't pass the jobs bill. He said "crime would continue to rise" when in fact crime is FALLING.

Joe Biden and Obama are scum liberals who will say ANYTHING to get elected. Who cares if their speaking COMPLETE LIES!

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/280722/biden-all-crime-will-continue-rise-if-republicans-dont-pass-wh-jobs-bill-andrew-stiles

so paul f, are you going to somehow try to make the case that the republicans are somehow models of honesty?

they are even worse with their lies

More good citizens are armed ,due to new gun laws that allow law abiding citizens the right to protect them selves. How can you vote if you're not paying attention to whats going on.sheeesh

Well, Biker4life55, explain why a state such as New York, which has not loosened its gun laws, has experienced a greater drop in crime than "Shall Issue" states like Texas and Florida.

New York State violent crime rate (per 100,000) in 1990: 1,180.9, and in 2010: 392.1

Texas violent crime rate (per 100,000) in 1990: 761.4 and in 2010: 450.3

Florida violent crime rate (per 100,000) in 1990: 1,2443 and 2010: 542.4

my sources:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

For the record, Texas adopted a "Shall Issue" law with regard to granting licenses to carry a concealed weapon in 1995. Florida did so in 1987. Both states have had plenty of time to see the positive benefit of such laws.

I'm not claiming that banning all hand guns would instantly lessen the crime rate. For one thing, with so many guns in our society, it is far too easy to obtain one illegally. But I would say that effective law enforcement work does have a positive impact, as does some surety of punishment. In the 1990s New York City, once proverbial for its crime rate and lawlessness, adopted better policing methods, and linked results to a departments general rating. The results have been dramatic. As the figures I posted illustrate, New York State has since gone from having one of the highest violent crime rates, to having one lower than either Florida or Texas.

Keep abortion legal and the crime rate will drop? o je-zuz what an absolutely asinine thing to do. Kill the babies b4 they become criminals. How about we focus on fixing the environment they grow up in so they can have a chance at a decent life. U know, fix america and all that, god this is so absurd. I mean i know there are plenty of indifferent people that dont blink an eye at the thought of a child being murdered, but sometimes their callousness just leaves me flabbergasted.

really sad people, there are a couple of reasons crime would drop with so many unemployed. #1 More parents home with their kids. #2 more people at home means fewer empty houses.

Leroy Brown, you might be on to somethimg- too weak from lack of food to commit crimes...on the other hand, if someone commits crimes, in theory, they get to eat in the hooscow! lol

Don't hold back Riphead,let it all out.

Personally, I don't think of Canadians as "foreigners". Just neighbors. Like Texans, only more nearby.

the overwhelming view in the legal world had been that the Second Amendment only protected a state's right to maintain a "well-regulated militia."

Bollocks.

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

What part of this do they not understand?

In Michigan there are 320,000 Concealed pistol license holders. 60,000 are women. The predictions of wholesale gun-play have never materialized. But there are several instances of people shooting car- jackers in the Big D. People are armed in their homes as well, and the criminals now KNOW this........Crime doesn't pay if you don't live through it.

Crime is low due to advances in technology and longer prison sentences for drugs and murder.It really make a person think twice before they commit a crime now.Everything is being monitored now in one way or another so its hard to get away with anything these days.Rob a bank today and by the end of the week at best you will be captured and locked up for a very long time.

could have something to do with more people being armed legally today. Even if the predicted "dodge city" never came to be god forbid that this could be cited as a reason that crime has dropped.

more people have guns now to protect their homes and themshels

I'm always amused by liberals who will argue that, even after over 200 years, and numerous Supreme Court decisions, that the 2nd Amendment is not settled law.

Those same liberals will also argue that, after less than 50 years, abortion is absolutely settled law and should never be challenged ever again for any reason.

Good luck with that.

Make gun ownership mandatory and watch the crime rate plummet, whats left of our criminals will have to move to Canada to stay in business.

i'v only spent a few minutes on looking up some of the gun sales between 2008 thru 2012, and the numbers are staggering

2008 thru the end of 2010 comes to about 26,000,000, and in 2011, sales alone were over 15,000,000

it doesn't take too long to figure out why crime has dropped......it also looks like 40 some percent went to the female gender in 2010-2011

now you can spend an hr. or so, and really brake it all down, but thats up to you.....it just kinda tells ya.....theirs a lot of folks out there with guns in their poesession

just my thoughts......... steven

I am always amazed by conservatives who are utterly unaware that for the first half of the 20th century, conservatives believed that gun control was a great thing. Gun control laws were widely enacted to restrict gun ownership, and particularly to exclude those who were black, Italian, or members of other "unwanted" groups. The NRA, for example, championed many such laws.

If you are going to quote the Second Amendment--quote it in its entirety: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That's "arms," people, not "guns." And it specifically is not particular types of guns. There is nothing in this that says that the government cannot restrict certain types of armament (oh, nuclear weapons or chemical weapons or demolitions equipment), and there is nothing here that says that this right goes beyond the need to have a well-regulated militia and nothing that says that arms cannot be restricted as long as you have enough "arms" to be able to secure your free state.

If you want to understand gun-rights legislation, you need to understand something more than the drivel that is fed to you by the NRA which likes to pretend that it never, ever, in its whole existence ever argued that gun control laws were a good thing (though it did from just after the Civil War to about 1970, or for about the first 100 years of its history). You have a right to a gun because the Supreme Court chose to read in a right to self-protection as being "intended" by the Constitution. You have it because of judicial activism and the creation of a "right" not stated in the Constitution.

Those who do not understand what a qualifying modifying clause is need to go back to English class, and those who do not realize that the Founding Fathers were terrific writers who would only put a qualifier at the beginning of a sentence if it was being emphasized also need to bo back to basic writing. This right was qualified as being necessary only because we did not at the time have a standing army; we have a standing army now.

Anyone who selectively quotes from the Second Amendment is really not worth taking seriously.

Beanathome, you have it completely backwards! Its activist judges that are trying to take the militia approach to change the meaning from what it really means. The right to bear arms. I had a class at a Univeristy with a Liberal Activist Federal Judge and got it straight out of his mouth. They are trying to change the interpretation. Problem is that anybody can organize a militia to keep their guns if they so choose, since there were no stipulations put on what kind of militia. Its just like the activist judges that took God out of school after it had never been a problem throughout the entire history of our country until 1962. That has worked out really well. Kids have no morals, nor parents, nor Wall Street, nor politicians, nor millions of people that are on welfare when they could go to work, etc.. It will be our downfall.

David Noah---Dumb comment.

Beanathome--Thank you Sir. Exactly right.

The system is not supportive of individual rights, so of course the report will not admit that loosened restrictions against carrying weapons might be a contributor to the decline in crime. That is crazy, liberals put forth and promote the idea that abortion (killing unborn people) is the reason for the crime decline but not adults choosing to protect themselves to the point of taking the life of violent criminals.

beanathome,

Excellent post!!! Exactly!!!

Jobless rate up, but crime down: What gives?..... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to answer this one...the government figures pertaining to un-employment are lying... "liars figure and figures lie! Perhaps now. all agencies are following the Fed's example...

We got so many people on the dole they don't need to commit crimes. I wonder if they count out of work criminals in the jobless numbers?

There will never be a successful crime committed on my property or my person. 24/7 packing ex marine and ready to protect my family. Don't have 5 minutes to wait calling 911. I'll just take care of the problem myself. There are millions just like me and for those of you that are victims of crime keep relying on 911. Good luck.

There will never be a successful crime committed on my property or my person. 24/7 packing ex marine and ready to protect my family. Don't have 5 minutes to wait after calling 991. I'll just take care of the problem myself. There are millions just like me and for those of you that are victims of crime keep relying on 991. Good luck.

John, while agree with you that the Fed Unemployment stats are wrong, that doesn't apply in this situation. The jobless rate is close to if not more than twice what they report. They don't report people whose benefits have run out.

But for those of you babbling about having guns having anything to do with the low crime rates, try checking out areas like DC which bans guns to private citizens, but their rates have also gone down. While I support a citizen owning guns for protection or sport, I don't see how that is having any bearing on the current trend.

There has always been an element of "unreported" crimes but I'm not sure that even this would apply.

I'm just glad for it.

beanathome: I love liberals who pretend to know something about the 2nd amendment that no one else seems to have noticed. Furthermore, the NRA has absolutely NOTHING to do with it since that organization wasn't formed until 1871, almost a century AFTER the Constitution was ratified.

Are you seriously telling me that the founding fathers did not intend for it to be an absolute right for an individual to own a gun? Are you seriously telling me that you think the use of the word "arms" does not mean guns as well?? Lemme tell ya bean, the founding fathers used the word arms because that meant not only guns, but also cannons as well. The use of the word arms is not meant as an exclusionary term, but as an INCLUSIONARY term, because arms were not limited only to guns of the militia. Can you cite me any law from any colony of that time period to support your argument. Even one?? I doubt it.

But let's say for the sake of argument that you're correct. Let's say the founding fathers never intended for guns to be owned by people. In order for that argument to be correct, you would have to assume that there would have been some attempt to limit gun ownership in that time. There was NONE!!

You can not cite me one example of where there was any action of any kind to limit gun ownership, or any kind of arms ownership for that matter. And the reason why is perfectly obvious. Outside of trade, barter, or perhaps being wealthy enough to eat at the local tavern everyday, if you wanted meat on the table, you went out and shot it. There weren't any grocery stores you could run to and pick up a pound of venison. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the founding fathers didn't understand this??

You're argument is really ludicrous on the face of it, as it completely and totally ignores cultural and practical realities of colonial society where protection from foreign armies, Indians, robbers, and wild animals was viewed as a necessity. Not to mention that the founding fathers knew full well that an unarmed populace was tantamount to slavery under a king. Something they were quite familiar with, and one of the reasons this country was founded to begin with. The Supreme Court has validated that on numerous occasions, and yet liberals still insist that what everyone else understands the 2nd amendment to cover, is somehow in error. Oh, please, spare me.

You can go try and pawn that load of NRA BS off on someone else. But it won't work with anyone who understands what life was like in that period. Something you obviously don't have a friggin clue about.

O.K. Rick I gotta ask. What is 991 ????

Second to last paragraph should have started with the word "Your, not you're."

beanathome,

Aka bean, beane, beanne (Banned from Newsvine).

NICE FAILED ATTEMPT, WHEN IN DOUBT AND NO FACTS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE.

tactical45, TakeDownCathy,

That ugly thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.

Janine-1645002,

Not quite the US Supreme Court which has jurisdiction over the Washington D.C. Laws, Ruled that the D.C. Anti Gun Laws were Unconstitutional. Immediately after this the sales of guns increased and the crime rate significantly decreased.

This US Supreme Court Ruliing put into challenge the Anti Gun Laws at Detroit and Chicago.

It was finally laid to rest the interpretation of the US Constitution by the US Supreme Court Ruling. As it was the Individual Gun Ownership that prevented the British during the start Revolutionary War from squashing the American Revolution from even starting by British General Cornwallis and Henry Clinton seizing the American Colonists Militia Armories even before the American Revolution started.

This caused the American Colonists Militia (Predecessors to States National Guards, Uniforms, Napoleonic Conventional Warfare (Stand in lines at a predetermined date and agreed upon battlefield) to flee with the Founding Fathers, while the Individual Gun Owners as the "Minutemen" (No uniforms, Asymmetric Warfare, Shopkeeps, Farmers, Merchants, Hunters, Fur Trappers, Blacksmiths, etc.) held off the British Regulars (Military) until the First Continental (American Colonists) Army could be formed, which took a while because the Founding Fathers even argued about the name (typical Politicians). This is one of the First Successful US (American Individuals as the "Minutemen") use of Asymmetric Warfare, Insurgency Warfare against (British) Conventional Warfare, to Overthrow an Established Government (The British Government at the "Colonies".).

And to the really ignorant (too lazy to do the Research, and like being uninformed and uneducated) as far as "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share", etc.. Who do you think the Founding Fathers were, as they had time to be "Rebels" and not have to do daily subsistence living.

Founding Fathers primary purpose defeat the British "Tax The Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" of the British Stamp Act aka "Tea Tax" for the British to pay for the British Military at the Colonies ("Oppressors of the American Colonists"), the Debt of the Napoleonic Wars, the other British Colonies of "Great Britain" "British Empire".

Gotta love the Liberals and their whacko views... what a bunch of nutjobs! Of course the Second Amendment was for the citizens to have guns. Why? The authors of the Bill of Rights specifically wanted the populace to be armed to prevent a tyrannical government from ever oppressing the people. There are literally hundreds of quotes from the founding fathers that state and support that very opinion. Gotta love how Liberals never let the facts interfere with their arguments... lol!

We can take this one step further. The musket was the premier weapon of it's day. It was the primary weapon used by every standing army and militia of that time period. Men who fought in the Revolutionary War were encouraged to take their muskets home after the war. To keep it handy if they were needed again. It was different than the hunting muskets of the time. The modern day equivalent of the musket would be the assault rifle... currently used by every modern day standing army and militia. Thus why it shouldn't even be questioned why it is perfectly legal for anyone (who is legally able) to own an assault rifle (see Switzerland).

The reason increased LEGAL gun ownership and 49 states some kind of concealed carry laws aren't mentioned as having a positive effect on violent crime in this article is... quite simply... because it was written by a Liberal. Look at who they are quoting... a UC Berkeley law professor... DUH!

david-475776,

That ugly thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.

Reported as inflammatory. There is absolutely no value in your statement nor reason for it. Please abide by the CoH.

TakeDownCathy - There is absolutely no value in your statement nor reason for it.

Yes, there is, as you agreeing with something without even bothering to do your own research, aka lack of cognitive research skills and cognitive skills to determine the actual Facts.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU POST, INSTEAD OF BLAMING OTHERS FOR YOUR POSTING UNINFORMED UNEDUCATED THINGS.

add to post#3.27

So, TakeDownCathy, instead of posting emotive one liner conditioned Attention Deficit Disorder Twit "One Liners" of Twitter, how about contributing to Newsvines "Get Smarter Here" Disscussions of Facts.

Like (your failed attempt to hide the Facts that disprove beanathome, and tactical45, TakeDownCathy emotive non factual, not researched uneducated opinions):

beanathome,

Aka bean, beane, beanne (Banned from Newsvine).

NICE FAILED ATTEMPT, WHEN IN DOUBT AND NO FACTS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE. (WRONG POLITICAL PARTY).

Janine-1645002,

Not quite the US Supreme Court which has jurisdiction over the Washington D.C. Laws, Ruled that the D.C. Anti Gun Laws were Unconstitutional. Immediately after this the sales of guns increased and the crime rate significantly decreased.

This US Supreme Court Ruliing put into challenge the Anti Gun Laws at Detroit and Chicago.

It was finally laid to rest the interpretation of the US Constitution by the US Supreme Court Ruling. As it was the Individual Gun Ownership that prevented the British during the start Revolutionary War from squashing the American Revolution from even starting by British General Cornwallis and Henry Clinton seizing the American Colonists Militia Armories even before the American Revolution started.

This caused the American Colonists Militia (Predecessors to States National Guards, Uniforms, Napoleonic Conventional Warfare (Stand in lines at a predetermined date and agreed upon battlefield) to flee with the Founding Fathers, while the Individual Gun Owners as the "Minutemen" (No uniforms, Asymmetric Warfare, Shopkeeps, Farmers, Merchants, Hunters, Fur Trappers, Blacksmiths, etc.) held off the British Regulars (Military) until the First Continental (American Colonists) Army could be formed, which took a while because the Founding Fathers even argued about the name (typical Politicians). This is one of the First Successful US (American Individuals as the "Minutemen") use of Asymmetric Warfare, Insurgency Warfare against (British) Conventional Warfare, to Overthrow an Established Government (The British Government at the "Colonies".).

And to the really ignorant (too lazy to do the Research, and like being uninformed and uneducated) as far as "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share", etc.. Who do you think the Founding Fathers were, as they had time to be "Rebels" and not have to do daily subsistence living.

Founding Fathers primary purpose defeat the British "Tax The Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" of the British Stamp Act aka "Tea Tax" for the British to pay for the British Military at the Colonies ("Oppressors of the American Colonists"), the Debt of the Napoleonic Wars, the other British Colonies of "Great Britain" "British Empire".

By the way, TakeDownCathy, since you have not figured it out yet, lack of cognitive reasoning skills, and have to be spoonfed.

TakeDownCathy - david-475776, That ugly thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.

I did not choose your avatar, which just happens to be a caricature of a person, that is not exactly "complementary" as depicted as "Ugly" and a lot of other derogatory traits.

AND, david-475776 - "NOT a hat rack"; so are you saying that it is a hat rack between your shoulders by being offended by my saying that it is NOT a hat rack.

Newsvine Code of Honor

1. Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks. If you see something disrespectful or inappropriate, report it - rather than further inflaming the situation.

a. Adding a personal attack to an otherwise valuable comment or article serves only to render that contribution invalid in its entirety. Such content is subject to moderation.

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TakeDownCathy,

Nice copy and paste, how about relating that to my post at # 3.29. Moderators Sally or Tyler just have to read my posts at # 3.28 and 3.29. to figure out what you are attempting to do, just because you do not like the Facts, and cannot dispute what is stated.

The one fact that rings true here is that you addressed me with a personal attack. Per CoH, I should not respond to any part of the conversation and simply report your action.

Moderators Sally or Tyler just have to read my posts at # 3.28 and 3.29. to figure out what you are attempting to do.

They should have read post #3.24 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:16 AM EST

just because you do not like the Facts, and cannot dispute what is stated.

This is very untrue. You chose to personally attack me and others. If you would like to have a discussion about a topic, I would be more than happy to oblige. Unfortunately, you chose to stoop to a level I would rather not participate in.

Might I suggest refraining from the attacks and you might get fruitful discussion in return. Good day!

Not to mention California's restrictive gun laws leaves the honest folks sitting ducks. You will never see an article that admits that the three cities in America with the worst crime rate are also the ones with the most firearm restrictions.

I find it hard to believe that property crimes are going down. Everthing is bein stolen by crack and meth headed scrappers here in KY. An A/C in a house, school or church isn't safe. The copper groundin wires on telephone poles is being stripped off. We will be like South America or Africa soon. LOL!

Oh, please--and how many guns do people in California own? Do they own guns at a lower rate than people in other parts of the country (allowing for the fact that many people will refuse to answer the question or will answer falsely if they think that the gun will be taken away)?

You cannot show connection to higher crime by showing simply a correlation between the number of are gun control laws and the (supposed) rate of crime. In fact, the presence of gun-assisted crime explains why there would be laws (that is, the causal factor goes in the other direction--the crimes cause the existence of the laws).

You would have to show that there were guns, the laws lowered the availability of guns to those who would like to own them for non-criminal reasons, and that this lack of guns is what has spurred increased crime.

You would also have to show that the apparent increase in the number of guns sold in other areas has to do with something other than better reporting and stricter regulations on reporting.

You are using what is called a post hoc fallacy. Well, unless you are using an anecdote to try and counter well-researched statistics--as that's a different fallacy altogether.

Actually bean you can show a direct correlation between more restrictive gun laws or banning of handguns and the crime rate spiking. Look at DC and Chicago. The year after they banned handguns the crime rate spiked

beanathome

Aka bean, beane, beanne (Banned from Newsvine).

California is one of the WORST examples.

As mentioned by AZ Dave-1029130, many of the US Citizens of California becoming "sitting ducks", especially to the Illegal Aliens Gangs (Illegal Aliens = more Illegal Activities (Crimes) = Illegal Guns, as to be in one of those Illegal Aliens Gangs and not having a Gun is like not having a penis or not having breasts and a clit.).

The Result more US Citizens of California drive across State Borders to other States for a week or couple of weeks "vacation", then buy a Gun (mandatory "wait period" and Background checks) and return home after their "vacation" to California, so that they no longer become "easy pickings for the Criminals". For those US Citizens that live at California and cannot afford the "vacation", they go to Illegal sources and buy a gun from the back of a van or car trunk (Usually Illegal Alien Smugglers and or Illegal Alien Gang Members.). No matter how many heated arguements with my Relatives at Southern California, they still refuse to sell the Family Farm and move to Northern California to my Brother In Laws place (acres) or another State so they did arm themselves to the n'th degree, and they asked me to train them on Gun Safety, Combat Marksmanship, Counter Terrorist Marksmanship, Close Quarter Combat, FBI Techniques, being US Military Asymmetric Warfare out of concern for their safety; I did train them, as what we do routinely at other Nations as Foreign Internal Defense (FID) Missions.

@Steve-3883232

I live in the Chicago. Your statement is false. According to the FBI reports, Chicago's crime rate has dropped over the last 15 years. It has reached it's lowest since point 1960's. In actuality, there was a spike in crime after the US Supreme Court repealed the local gun control laws.

Chicago has increased its policing and community crime watch program to compensate bringing the number back down.

Trey Patch - According to the FBI reports, Chicago's crime rate has dropped over the last 15 years.

Post the link to the FBI internet website. Do not post a link to a Non FBI Report.

By the way if it is only the local FBI Office, and not the National FBI Link that means that it is not Officially Recognized as Fact by the FBI.

interesting note of trivia the state of california is shipping its felons to prisons in oklahoma

@david-475776

I was going by an article published in the Chicago Tribune, Jan. 1, 2011.

The details are in the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report.

The CPD also publishes an annual report which can verify it.

Don't forget that this recession has prevented many people from affording cell phones or telephone service which in turn reduced the amount of reports the police department gets of criminal activity.

I haven't approved of the length of time benefits have been handed out, but you may be right. People do desperate things in desperate times, especially when family is concerned.

Give me a break, most career criminals haven't worked a day in their lives.

3 words.....Conceal and Carry .....

YOu can call 911 from any deactivated cell phone. The poor can get obamaphones free cellphones from the welfare office now. Obuma is pushing for $9 a month broadband cable internet for welfare receivers so because cables speed is affected by the # of users all the full price payers will be hurt.

steveaae- YOu can call 911 from any deactivated cell phone.

Rhetorical Question. Do you honestly think that the Police are actually paid to get shot, wounded or killed in the Line of Duty. If you honestly believe that you might want to talk to the Police Unions. Many of the Bureaucrats believe that Police wounded or killed in the Line of Duty are a waste of Local, City, State money (Investments).

Didn't you ever wonder why the Police usually show up AFTER a violent Crime in Progress, and not DURING; even if they are a few minutes away.

I would tell you to call 911 and ask for someone else other than the Police; but, asking for the someone else is considered "Criminal" in most States.

So,

dano-3878024 - 3 words.....Conceal and Carry .....

Is correct, especially those "poor" States that as a condition of granting a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon (Firearm, handgun), you must be sworn in as a Deputy Sheriff (Firsthand experience at one of those "Poor" States, at that City they could not afford their own Police Department; so they were asking US Military Officers for volunteers to be sworn in as Deputy Sheriffs to work the weekends. As a really "creative" solution to their screwed up Economy. They were so poor that they had us buying our own Sheriffs Department uniforms (no reimbursements).

Book em Dano

Are they too lazy to plastic as well Bama? How about wood, are they too lazy to wood?

or spell for that matter. I believe the term you were looking for is "steal".

Or, perhaps, they are steeling themselves for worse times yet to come?

steel [stiːl] vb (tr)

1. (Engineering / Metallurgy) to fit, plate, edge, or point with steel
2. to make hard and unfeeling--he steeled his heart against her sorrow; he steeled himself for the blow

I just love pissing off a liberal.

LMAO! Damn Bama, your @!$%# got trashed! Dude, learn how to spell and make sense before you start talking sh-i-t.

YES!

Number 7. below.

Proposed David Letterman Top Ten List:

10. Criminals are on Drugs that leave them too stoned to do any Crime.

9. Criminals figured out Crime does not pay unless you become a US Politician.

8. More Criminals while at Prison getting US Taxpayer paid Law Degrees and becoming Lawyers (another form of Legalized (by Lawyers) Criminals).

7. Criminals figured out that everyone else is Unemployed and have nothing to steal.

6. Technology of cameras on Cellphones and Smartphones to capture them in the Act. Also video cameras everywhere, computer facial Recognition Software, proliferation of Law Enforcement Computers.

5. Less Illegal Aliens at the US due to the high Unemployment Rates. Illegal Aliens Self Deporting out of the US.

4. Most States in Acting Anti Illegal Alien Laws, so they all go to California and commit Crimes there.

3. More criminals in the Prisons as "Three time Losers", less to commit Crimes. Except for California's Revolving Door Prisons.

2. Criminals watch all the CSI Television Programs and realize they will be caught. Modern Criminology, DNA, etc..

1. Too much Legal Ownership of Legally Registered Weapons, and do not want to get shot in the face by NRA Trained Civilians (NRA same people that train US Law Enforcement).

clarification to post#7.2. read as:

1. Too much Legal Ownership of Legally Registered Weapons, and CRIMINALS do not want to get shot in the face by NRA Trained Civilians (NRA same people that train US Law Enforcement (Local, City, State, National, International), Firearms Safety, etc.).

Don't forget to mention that with a few more million guns in the homes you just might get you you know what shot off.

I agree with your second point, but you'll have to define what you mean by "youth" crime, as most kids (under 18) these days are too lazy, too stupid, or too busy entertaining themselves (lawfully) to commit crimes. Obviously, you'll have your areas where there will always be crime, no matter the age, but I'm talking about the general trend. In a way, it's a good thing.

"Youth" are too busy playing World of Warcraft and Grand Theft Auto, these days. The teen pregnancy rate is down, also. Keep them busy with their video games, and casual crime by bored adolescents goes down.

OK. The video game theory of crime reduction, is my favorite. Voting you up for that one, beanathome.

@kjunme

The statistics are change according to the source, FBI, ATF, NRA, but there are roughly 70 to 80 million civilian gun owners in the US. The US population currently is 312 million. That means 22 to 26% of the population own guns that is down from 54% in 1977. The are a currently estimated 283 million guns in the US with about 4 million sold every year. That averages about 3 to 4 guns per owner.

beanathome,

Aka bean, beane, beanne (Banned from Newsvine).

Tell that to the so called Psychologists, Parents, and the people that created the ESRB video game ratings that specifically named the entire Grand Theft Auto (GTA) Series making "Violent Illegal Activities as Fun and Entertaining".

http://www.gta4.net/news/single.php?id=4032

Trey Patch - @kjunme - The statistics are change according to the source, FBI, ATF, NRA,

AGAIN.

Post the link to the FBI internet website. Do not post a link to a Non FBI Report.

By the way if it is only the local FBI Office, and not the National FBI Link that means that it is not Officially Recognized as Fact by the FBI.

Crooks only fear 2 things

1.getting hurt =guns

2.getting caught= cameras

Philly kept talking about those "youths" committing crimes, on the cctv videos they look like black men

David said:

the people that created the ESRB video game ratings that specifically named the entire Grand Theft Auto (GTA) Series making "Violent Illegal Activities as Fun and Entertaining".

Grand Theft Auto is my guilty pleasure.I don't play it, but I will sit on the couch beside my hubby and watch him shoot people, steal money, drive around in souped up sports cars, and pick up prostitutes. Is it fun? Hell yeah. You get to do stuff in virtual that you would never even think about doing in real life (except possibly the pigeon shooting in GTA4; it was definitely fun watching those air rats explode in clouds of blood and feathers and I have been known to take a couple of potshots at them with my bow and arrows just for the hell of it.) And I volunteer at an animal shelter and am an animal rights activist!

Now, would I ever go and shoot people or steal money in real life? No. except once, a drug dealer in the back alley dropped a wad of cash and I found it when I took the trash out ($200) Did I run after him to give it back? Heck no, I paid my electric bill with that!

Do I advocate kids playing it? Except for the 40 year old kid I'm married to, no. We have 2 boys, aged 8 and 9, and their current video game obsession is called Civilization. If you've never heard of it, it's a wonderful teaching tool; they start with a group of settlers on a wilderness continent and they have to build a civilization from scratch; stone age, bronze age, Renaissance, Industrial era, space age, and along the way they have to learn to play nice with other civilizations, establish diplomatic ties and trade routes, research different technologies like horseback riding, printing press, gunpowder, astronomy, physics, scientific method--and eventually they win the game by being the first one to build a spaceship and send it off to another planet. They are both learning a lot about how the world works and how the human race got to where we are today (even if my little one does think it hilarious when he nukes Caesar.)

So while I do agree that there are games I would not want my kids playing, I do agree that it can be a good teaching tool and time in front f the XBox isn't wasted if they are playing something that will teach them something in the process.

Getting back to the topic, drop in crime rates:

Some thing that WERE crimes aren't a crime any longer. I was walking down a sidewalk a while ago when a guy came up behind me and stuck his hand between my legs and grabbed my private parts. I got pissed and i chased him half a mile down the road while on my cellphone with the cops. When they finally caught up with us they told me since he made no attempt to remove my clothes it wasn't considered a sexual assault. They told me if I wanted to press charges I could go to the court commissioners the next day and request a summons for him to appear in court. So I did and guess what?He was a registered child sex offender, just touched down out of jail for molesting a ten yer old girl.

I expected he was going to go back to jail. Instead the judge ruled that since I was not a minor what he did wasn't a reflection off his prior bad acts and dismissed the case. Then when he changed his address (lived in my neighborhood) he was picked up for violation of parole--he didn't keep his address current with sex offender registry. This case was dismissed since the apartment he moved to was rented by his Mom and his name was not on the lease so on paper he was 'homeless' and they couldn't 'prove' he'd not kept his address updated with SORU, and of course his mother said he didn't live with her.

So there's par of the answer; things that WERE considered crimes aren't anymore due to changes in law and prison overcrowding.

Amanda-2017567,

Yes, I know about Age of Empires ("AOE"), Civilization ("Civ"), Civilization II ("Civ II"), World of Warcraft ("WOW"), Starcraft ("SC" and "SC II"), etc..

To earn extra money during my 3rd Career, Retail Management (pay sucked); I used to create Tournament (for money) Level Gaming Computers sometimes beyond the $2,000 price tag just for the computer. Of course my 2nd Career, Teaching, and 3rd Career were wiped out by my repeated Recalls to Active Duty as a US Military Officer, so I started my own Business (Finally learned from my previous mistakes), as currently managed by my Business Managers (US Military Veterans, "Too Old" to be Recalled) at two States.

You do know that there are "Hot Keys" for computers to switch back and forth from playing Civilization, working, etc. to another game, viewing porn, etc. There are "hacks" to do the same on X Box, Playstation, etc..

If your children (usually smarter on technology) are doing this, tell them sorry I ratted them out.

Seriously, do you think that children will sit there for hours watching people gathering materials, food, water, building buildings, etc.. This is the same reason that some people with too little time and too much money will pay $16,000 for a virtual sword during World of Warcraft. One of the workers when I worked Retail Management got so hooked on World of Warcraft, he never showed up for work, he ended up going to the Psychiatrist, and he was placed on probationary employment.

My comment to parents, NEVER EVER use Computers, Games, Television, Schools, their Friends, their Friends parents, etc. as Baby Sitters; as if you do, what are you needed for, Do not say you don't have time, Make time. Your physical personal interactions are invaluable (I should know from being gone for years (almost decades) deployed for years of consecutive tours, I had the choice be Recalled or lose my Retirement and go to Prison, how's that for being a "Volunteer". Got to thank the In Laws for straightening them out to not hate me, unlike the ex wife that ran away with someone else. So now I have to worry about the grand children, that I will spoil (as "Grandpa's Job") when I finally get back Stateside in less than 6 months, as "Too Old" to be Recalled to Active Duty again.).

Anyway, to the bottomline, all of this is changing the Sociology, Psychology, etc. of the current and future generations. Like you mentioned, what is acceptable behavior, or what is Legal or Illegal.

And for yourself you do know about "Non lethal" means like "Pepper spray"; of course realize that you may be charged with "Aggravated Assault" by the current screwed up Judicial System (Criminals as Victims).

Yes, the extended unemployment makes sense especially since the benefits have been or where extended to 99 weeks. Nearly two years of unemployment make people a lot less desperate to put food on the table. However, this would only account for the past couple of years.

Says the government, and if you can't trust your government, who can you trust?

*flips sarcasm switch off*

But no, seriously. These are FBI statistics, and they're pretty accurate.

because it make obama look better if the unemployment rate looks low. DUHHHHH

Yeah, 8.6% sounds a hell of a lot better than 24%.

Sad part about it, is that it is still is around 24% The 8.6% are just the ones that didn't fall off the radar yet.

Domingo, The only reason I can see they report less unemployment then there is, is to try to prevent something that would drive us into a even deeper hole. The reason would to keep the people from panicing. If the country panics, nobody would buy anything except food, there would be runs on banks, more protests and possibly riots. If there are riots, sooner or later somebody would start shooting, and then it would really hit the fan.

We stand on the very edge of a cliff and it wouldn't take a many more shoves to send us over into a major nightmare and I don't think there are that many cops that they could stop it. The country might crumble like a sand castle in storm.

I'm not saying thats it just another idea. Most likely its like you said, but I'll bet that the number of unemployed has always been understated in all the reports the government ever made. Makes people feel better. LOL

nightwalker,

Most people that do not use their computer as a paperweight already know what the Real US Unemployment Rate is as 24% up from what I stated before, 23%. With the Great Depression Unemployment Rate of 25%.

It is really evident to anyone that bothers to go look around also, unlike the disconnected from Reality US Politicians (All Parties) aka Millionaires, that cannot even tell you how much a gallon of milk costs as their slaves, err, Illegal Alien housekeepers do all the shopping.

That Current Unemployment Rate of 24% does not include the Teenagers of US Citizens current Unemployment Rate of 52%, the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US taking those "Low Paid", "McJobs", "No Benefits", "Hardwork", "Entry Level" Jobs normally occupied by the Teenagers of US Citizens. With the Illegal Aliens at the US taking over the US Labor Union Construction Jobs (Automatically, defeating President Obama's Jobs Bill, rebuilding US Infrastructure aka giving Jobs to Illegal Alien Construction Workers, not US Citizens. There is also the demands of US Citizens to Cut the US Military Defense Budget without knowing the Facts, about the US Army Corps of Engineer Projects and Programs (Infrastructure Construction) within the US. BIG UH DUH.).

Anyone that wants to know just how much a President sucks, just has to look at the US Misery Index, as previously used by President Carter (later the Misery Index backfired on his arse):

http://www.miseryindex.us/indexbypresident.asp

KUJME: What a load of crap. The unemployment statistics have been complied using the exact same method for decades.

norm-1983012,

Pull out the calculator. Go to this link. US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

http://www.bls.gov/

Start adding up all the Categories of Unemployed, including those that stopped getting Unemployment Insurance (no longer reported as Unemployed), those that just stopped looking for Work, etc..

Also not included in the Unemployment are those US Military returning from the Wars, as well as the no longer needed US Civilians that previously support the US Military (significant numbers, xxx,xxx US Civilians).

There was also the Fact like President Obama's April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN that resulted in:

Pricey Jet Fighters Add Up To Local Jobs
CBS Evening News: Funding For F-22 Jets Is On The Chopping Block, But Building Them Keeps 95,000 People Employed

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/25/eveningnews/main4893248.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;1

And the upcoming President Obama Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the 27,000 US Mililtary Personnel.

Its unemployment insurance dip @!$%#. In case you are too stupid to know the difference insurance is payed buy the company that you worked for and made rich while they payed you just enough money to stay in dept to try to live a decent life. And before you say something else that would be wrong, I will let you know that I have worked 29 years with only drawing 3 unemployment checks.But I did pay a lot of taxes in those years.

Well you're lucky kjunme We can't all be high school English teachers like you however.

Common Man-3493893 - Many people work at jobs that pay under the table. That way they can work and still collect government benefits.

Don't you know that it is Politically Incorrect to mention the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens "Cash For Work Only" to avoid filling out Employer Paperwork (no State and Federal Income Tax Withholding, aka Criminal Felony Tax Evasion) since Employer Paperwork according to President Obama is used effectively by ICE to Raid Businesses.

example: 2004 California spent over $10 Billion on Illegal Aliens, $7.7 Billion Education Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Billion Health Care (that you cannot afford for yourself) Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Billion Imprisonment of Violent Crime Illegal Aliens (Murder, Rape, Armed Assaults, Illegal Alien Gang Intiations (random murders, rapes, armed robbery, etc.); while Nationwide Collection of Taxes from Illegal Aliens of $17 Million.

After other States In Acted and Enforced Anti Illegal Alien Laws, this caused more Illegal Alliens to flee to Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California increasing the amount spent on Illegal Aliens and decreasing the California Revenue resulting in California Politicians increasing Taxes, resulting in:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57336405/unemployment-leading-to-california-exodus/?tag=mncol;lst;2

The above money spent on Illegal Aliens does not include the costs of Public Assistance, Public Housing, Food Stamps (SNAP), etc. as assisted in being obtained by US Taxpayer Funded Illegal Alien Advocacy Group La Raza, M.E.Ch.A., etc.. As it was the US Taxpayer Funded Illegal Alien Advocacy Group La Raza that hired entire Legal Firms to defeat California Proposition 187, that would have made Illegal for Non US Citizens to recieve US Taxpayer Funded Public Assistance; setting a Legal Precedent Nationwide, via the 9th Circuit Court (Federal Court).

The Illegal Aliens use US Taxpayer Funded Public Assistance to decrease their Cost Of Living at the US, as more money to send home (Money Laundrying, Felony Criminal Tax Evasion) so when they return home (Low Cost of Living) they can live like Kings and Queens, like their friends and neighbors did before and are still doing, this is NOT so that they can "Feed their Starving Families" at home (their Nation, not the US) as their Families are brought with them to the US to get more US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance.

The other Factor is California and others "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share", forcing the "Rich" Business Investors to flee California and even the US to other Nations. So Local, Cities, and the State of California increase their Taxes on the Businesses to maintain their "Status Quo" (pay for all the Social Programs and the Illegal Aliens) as Local, City, State Taxes adding on to the:

American companies are finding new overseas tax havens to legally protect some of their profits from the U.S. tax rate of 35 percent, among the highest in the world. Lesley Stahl reports.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360932n&tag=mncol;lst;3

Ask yourself this question, If you lived at California, would you tolerate Taxes (Local, City, State plus Federal) on your income of 50% or more, while seeing for yourself how the money is spent on anything except for you, the US Citizens of California. Part of the heated arguements with my Relatives at Southern California (post#4.5).

The other effect of Illegal Aliens, now being capable as a "cohesive group" to determine the US President and Vice President (the really uninformed of the US believing that their "Popular Vote" determines the US President and Vice President):

California could get nine House seats it doesn’t deserve because illegal aliens will be counted in 2010.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574332950796281832.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

2010, is the first time that the question about Legal Residency was removed, as demanded by President Obama, as only the short Census Form would be used, and:

Dr. ElizabethGrieco, chief of the Census Bureau’s Immigration Statistics Staff, told us in a recent interview that the 2010 census short form does not ask about citizenship because “Congress has not asked us to do that.”

Before anyone starts screaming "Repugnants", sorry US Congress was still "Demoncrap" Controlled, until later, months after the US Census, and the "Scrotums" (aka Tea Baggers).

That's Right I do not "like" any US Politician:

The Price Tag Of Politics

As Bob Schieffer explains, Politicians generally listen to the ones who gave them the money to get where they are today and in the end, once they reach Washington their positions are set in stone, thanks to lobbyists and special interest groups.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

The only possible Researched Solution, Random Selection of our Representatives, like Jury Duty with Vetting, etc. (details at my other Newsvine Posts other Topics).

golliegeewillikers-1980315 - Well you're lucky kjunme We can't all be high school English teachers like you however.

If that is true. Do you know who is "supposed to be paying for" kjunme.

Hint: I found it really STUP!D. That the Local, City, State and National Unions (aka Associations, renamed to protect the guilty) kept demanding their Union Dues after I was Recalled to Active Duty (US Military Officer) while I was deployed to Iraq (years of consecutive tours) and then here (Afghanistan, years of consecutive tours).

This got so bad that they started demanding wage garnishments of my US Military Pay. I had to hire a Lawyer at my expense, as the US Military JAG (Lawyers) did not want to get involved in a Civil Matter, "outside their jurisdiction" (UCMJ), just to stop this Stup!dity. This is the kind of nonsense we (US Military) must put up with. This is how my 2nd Career, Teacher, usually inner City Schools (aka combat zones) ended. As an "in your face" to them, I still teach Afghans Science, Math, nothing religious, between our other Missions.

You would think that our so called "Educators" aka Teachers would be smart enough to look at all the Automatic Payroll Deductions of the Local, City, State, National Unions of their Paychecks; AND, do the research about the current Unions History, as taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" as a "Profitable Legit Business with Political Clout" (just like the current US Insurance Industry, previous extortion), after the Great Depression wiped out the Henry Ford Era US Labor Unions as well as previous US Labor Union gains (US Laws).

After being taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" as a "Profitable Legit Business with Political Clout" the US Labor Unions were organized similar to the Blackshirts of Mussolini, the Blackshirts organized like the Sturmabteilung (SA) of Hitler, this is where the previous and current violent US Labor Union Tactics came from, like:

Longshoremen storm Wash. state port, damage RR, Sep 8, 2011

http://news.yahoo.com/longshoremen-storm-wash-state-port-damage-rr-144921214.html

The US Labor Union propaganda of all the things done to improve US Work Conditions also need to be researched, as these gains were NOT due to the US Labor Unions; but, were the result of a US War Department Study to decrease Catastrophic Accidents at Ammunition Plants, after US Entry into World War II (you can request this under the Freedom Of Information Act it is a really BIG Book with lots of diagrams almost like newspaper cartoon strips (the literacy rate was not so great back then)).

The US Labor Unions prior to and during WWII could do NOTHING, as their US Labor Union Activities were SUSPENDED by President FDR during the Great Depression until long after President FDR's death, even after the end of WWII. Because President FDR Nationalized all US Businesses and US Industry and started the current US Military Defense Industrial Complex to get the US out of the Great Depression, 1939 (before US Entry into WWII after his New Deal to the American People Failed), he could implement the recommendations of the US War Department Study Nationwide, as something the SUSPENDED US Labor Unions could not do. examples: Work place safety, including the length of women's hair, protective aprons, protective gloves, fire extinguishers (and entire fire departments), eye protection, safety equipment (boards with pole hooks, rope, and other rescue equipment, etc.); Restrictions of Child Labor (exemption Family Farms), Skills for Work (later minimum wage); Jews demanding Friday and Saturday Off for "Religious Worship" and got Saturday; Christians demanding Sunday Off for "Religious Worship"; Minimum numbers of hours of sleep required based on US War Department Sleep Deprivation Studies; Maximum hours of work (later becoming the "Work Week") based on US War Department Physical Exertion Studies; the on going, US Military Apprenticeship Programs (like still used at USN Pearl Harbor), later copied by the US Labor Unions; etc. (just go get the US War Department Study).

Don't even say Union Bashing, those are the Documented Historical Facts.

Instead of the Rich Union Bosses using the Union Membership Dues for the intended purposes (benefits of the Union Members) they stuff their own pockets to maintain their Lifestyles, worse than the Rich CEOs.

add to post#12.4.

And do not even credit the US Labor Unions with creating the "Middle Class" that occurred after World War II, while the US Labor Union Activities were still Suspended.

AND what does all this have to do with Jobs, and crime. The current US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR is currently keeping the US out of another Great Depression; by employing almost a hundred million expensive overpaid US Civilians paying them a "Fair and Living Wage"; as to why the US Military has to pay $300 for a hammer and those expensive USAF Toilet Seats; as US Law (US Code) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services". Keeping all these US Civilians employed decreases desperation and less criminal activities to support themselves and their families.

olddude, That may be the way things work in New York, But here at my PD in Mesa AZ we don't give false reports! The fact is crime is way down here in AZ! In fact, Flagstaff AZ had its best year in 50 years without having a single homicide! In Maricopa County AZ, Sheriff Joe Arpio is running the illegals out of town(despite the DOJ trying to stop him) and crime is dropping everyday!

Poolman, I grew up in Az, lived there until 4 yrs ago. I wish we had MORE like Sheriff Joe. No BS, no benefits for crooks, just a payback to society for their crimes! Can you tell I'm not a bleeding heart, LOL?

Arizona doesn't have to falsify crime reports because it's justice system works.

If New York falsifies crime reports, California's gotta be doing it as well. I'd be surprised if they aren't.

Well, yes, and the trains ran on time under Mussolini. As long as it isn't your civil rights being infringed on, I guess you are okay with people who are American citizens (but just don't have birth certificates) being forced to flee. In any case, violent crime is down everywhere--including those places with lots of undocumented individuals. There's no relationship to the fascist areas of Arizona under Arpaio (wouldn't it be nice if you could spell his name) and the decline in crime--he's just pretending that he is out there doing something useful when crime is actually declining everywhere.

When "Sheriff Joe" goes to Appalachia and starts ridding the mountains of all those "illegals" who lack birth certificates (but have blond hair and blue eyes), or when "Sheriff Joe" goes into the Arizona retirement communities and starts arresting and deporting all those "illegals" who lack birth certificates (but are old people who have been voting for half a century or more), and not just those "illegals" who happen to have brown skin and were born at home with a midwife or who don't know how to go about getting documentation because their schooling was spotty and rotten, or who have documentation but didn't happen to have it on them and can't get local law enforcement to accept it--as the poor fellow who languished in jail for over a year--or who have documentation on them but whom the local law enforcement just decides to deport anyway because their English isn't that great . . . well, I hope you catch my drift.

Fascism is wonderfully efficient--there is extremely low crime, the "unwanted" are imprisoned for invented crimes or even executed, so that everyone can look around and only see people "like themselves" and will feel comfortable and "safe," and while no one has any civil rights, they all are happy because they are "safe." Well, temporarily. Didn't work out so well in either Italy or Germany after a while.

I'm with Franklin--Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Um, Bean at home, that was pretty much a good rant. Have you lived in AZ? Yeah...it's pretty much in your face, illegal immigration. I lived in San Diego for three years, too, in Imperial Beach, and you try waking up in the morning to go to work and have people hiding behind your car, home, etc. I'm not a racist, and have no problem with them coming here, but I would really like to see them come here legally. And having been born in AZ, lived in AZ, I have no problem with Sheriff Joe. The inmates get plenty of food and water, their medical needs are taken care of, but they are made to WORK to pay back society for the cost to us. I think that's a pretty good exchange and might even teach them something.

Aralee, it ok. Bean doens't understand it. He's confused. He can't see a problem with illegal immigration, but he does have a problem with our Constitutional rights to own a gun. One mixed up liberal. I am sure that if they make gun ownership illegal, then all the criminals will be the first to go turn in their weapons. After all, criminals would never want to "break the law". Thats sarcassim.

First of all, this is a poorly written...misleading article. They have no facts about the CURRENT Jobless Rate actually being UP. Seems like the other News places are saying it is down. The writer just added that to the title for effect. How bad would the article have been if he hadn't thrown the jobless factor in? Poorly written..and this clown is writing for US NEWS! Get current facts BEFORE you title your article. This wasn't even worth the read time and definitely not worth taking time to write this comment for such a horrible piece of writing....School helps on this sort of thing ya know...Reading, Writing.....FACTS!

It's a real hoot to read about 'Illegal Immigration' to Arizona, Texas, California, and other States we stole from Mexico back in the 1840's.

Payback is hell in the 'Browning of America,' Gentlemen. It is estimated that by 2070 whites will be in the minority in the U.S.

A mere 'blip' on the screen of history. Get used to it.

Squid-By stole you mean won after the Alamo was destroyed . While it may be a blip on the history screen who will feed the monkeys when the white man is gone? Already only 50% in the US pay income taxes if it gets any lower it will become like how south africa and Zimbabwe fell apart with no one to fix/figure things out. When your president fox said "where there are mexicans there is mexico" he was right eventually there will be burro(woman and male donkey) shows in downtown areas. The only 1st world places that are brown or darker have oil, note mexico has oil and isn't on the list. The lesson of hati is that it was more productive than the 13 US colonies, but when the slaves where set free they killed the whites and mixed breeds. The rest where not able to maintain/organize, and hati hasnt been able to function ever since.The dominican republic which shares the island with hati only killed off whites and left mixed breeds and is a world apart with stronger defended borders than the US has.

steveaae

You may not go 'gently into the night' - But you are going.

AMF

Really?, NO! Sherif Joe Arpio is running all the illegals out of AZ(despite the DOJ trying to stop him) and crime is dropping like a rock! Those who fall for the "they just want to work" are completely naive or don't live in a border state!

Poolman1, I have spent many years in the past living in AZ. I know first hand many of the problems there. In the past it was the corrupt republicans running the state, though this has changed I don't expect the corruption has. Past issue like a US Senator buying the right of way lands for the AZ canal project so he profit on it after helping decide the right of way. To people like past Gov.Ev Mecham, perhaps dumber than Bush Jr. which is really hard to achieve. Or Don Boles when he was blown up in his car reporting on Crime and land swindles. Ect.

No I'm not current on AZ as per my statements cause I don't care. I live in a state that doesn't support right to work. There are several issues that need to be addressed on employment and the only one naive is the one blaming everything on illegals.

Are you gonna go pick lettuce out in the fields, yeah right. How about construction in 110 F. Yeah sure. Landscaping/ roofing. These are misrable jobs me and my friends did when we were young and most young persons I know now have no interest or drive to do these jobs, even if all illegals were deported. Isn't this the case as in Washington needing to take students out of classes this fall to pick the fruit. Alabama now having problems filling poultry positions, etc.

How about looking at all the low income jobs being produced such as hospitality and food services as that is where all the growth is now. No benefits. Things like right to work keep wages low on ALL jobs and people need means tested government programs even when they work. Low income =No tax base. Az where all the breaks are going to corporate construction interests that pass all the responsibilities of healthcare and other benefits onto the taxpayers while they pay nothing for jobs that might be union if it weren't for the right to work. People given loans by banks based on low incomes that they defaulted on cause they couldn't actually afford the house, lot of good all subdivisions of empty houses are doing there now eh.

When people don't have money they just blame the easiest target, uusually the lowest economical persons, which now days are the Mexican illegals. I do agree there are plenty of illegals committing crime, but with out those other illegals I assure you many sectors of work in this country won't get done. Why instead doesn't your sheriff go after all the crooks running the state from legislators to corrupt corporate entities and you'd probably be able to bring AZ into the 21st century.

Sorry about the rant, but I have lived in Az various times from 60's thru 80's and I know all too well the problems there and that is why I don't live there.

I disagree with you, Really. Last year my teenage son found some gold jewelry in the street walking home from the school bus. When he got home we called the police station about it and they showed up within 20 minutes. Year before that, we had some real aggravating teenagers ding-dong ditching our house, turning off our main breakers (our box is outside) and just generally being a real nuisance. After padlocking the box, disconnecting the door bell, they would just knock on the door at 3 am and run. I think one of them had a crush on my teenager. Finally got fed up and called the police. They were here in ten minutes. Amazing, that show of them at my house stopped the aggravation completely. I know there are bigger problems out there, but I don't think we can blame it on response from the police departments.

Aralee...

gee...I bet you live in a slum area don't you..a piss poor part of town...after all we all know the police respond very fast when a call comes in from those areas, don't we?

If you were to look at the world without your pampered rose colored glasses, you may see that the police are not giving everyone the same service...MOF, they tend to cater their efforts to suck up to the WEALTHY...

Cops will go to the bad part of town if the city supports them. In Harrisburg,PA the NAACP protested every time a black crook got shot around the time bars and strip clubs closed. The mayor for 20years got replaced by a black woman who was against cops shooting black crooks. Cops stoped going to the areas where they would have to shoot black crooks and risk their career. A year later the local naacp asked the governor to declare martial law in the city after 12 black on black shootings in one month.

Very good point, Curt.

oh-well, u stole my post. That's my theory - cameras, along with cell phones.

I would like to think there is a spiritual evolution going on. Instead of people making their lives worst for themselves by focusing on what they don't want they are taking their power back and focusing on what they do want instead!

To be true to oneself one does NOT make gain at the expense of another! This has nothing to do with guns and abortions either!

David Noah,

You also know that Robert Heinlein was a strong proponent of EARNED Citizenship, as the primary topic of his book, Starship Troopers (NOT as depicted in the movie as Paul Verhoeven really did not fully depict the consequences of not earning a Full Citizenship "Franchise" (Rights), since like most European Nations with Mandatory Compulsory Military Service, Paul Verhoeven, is actually opposed to Mandatory Compulsory Military Service).

This is something that I agree with, as also a reason why many in the US Military voted for Candidate Obama after the Presidential Debates as his promised (a legal verbal contract) solution to stop the repeated deployments of the 1/2 of 1% of US Citizens Serving in the US Military, as a means to get the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER served in the US Military to Serve thru a Selective Service and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service, as stated by Candidate Obama, "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement" (something given, not Earned), and "US Military Service is a Civic Duty".

The Benefit of Mandatory Compulsory Military Service without Defermentsand Exemptions (except for the Mentally Disabled) is All Citizens share the hardships, not just the small percentage of US Citizens, this makes it very possible for those deciding on War or Military Involvement to end up with a personal stake (their lives) in going to War. This could be seen during World War II Selective Service, as many of the "Rich and Famous" ended up participating, even if it was to be an Entertainer in a Combat Zone dodging bullets and artillery or as OSS "Spies".

I found it very amusing that most US Citizens have selective hearing, and do not bother to even go to youtube.com to review the Presidential Debates and previous speeches.

And what does this have to do with the Jobs and Crime Rate. How about more people with below minimum wage jobs of the US Military, less Unemployment; trained also not to kill themselves or others using firearms, many later as Civilians appreciating the actual self protection purpose of a firearm, sworn or affirmed to the US (no longer required for US Citizens after the Pledge of Allegiance was removed from US Schools), learned everything has a consequence, earned being more valuable than given (Entitlement) US Citizenship, etc..

Oh, yes, at many times US Military Veterans become Teachers (previous Nationwide incentive program, how Teaching became my 2nd Career), or First Responders as Police, Fire Department, or EMTs (how many of those that previously served with me ended up dying at the 9/11 2001 Attacks).

Tallman1938, I couldn't agree with you more, I used to work for the third largest law enforcement agency in my state.

This is what I learned about the FBI and their crime rate.

1. Had to have your information in to them by March.

2. Had to be reported in the way they wanted.

If you couldn't report it exactly in the way they wanted and in to them by the time they wanted your statistics were not included with the national average.

Crime is NOT going down at all it's just being reported differently. Law Enforcement agencies do not have to report to the FBI if they do not take any federal dollars. So I know many L.E. agencies have told the FBI they wont be reporting to them. So again they can say crime went down, sure it went down because they aren't getting the all the statistics/numbers.

I love how hispanics dont exist anymore for crime reporting. On the TX 10 most wanted list today there are 6 "whites" who were all hispanic, and no actual whites at all. The whitest guy on the list was actually not listed as white. Instead of being mostly white its actually mestizo and black. The most wanted guy with the highest reward offered has skin the color of sh!t, but is listed as white and belonging to a mexican gang.

You forgot to add unemployment is only 8.4% too. Ya, who believes any of these numbers. LOL!

Love to know where they get these statistics...Professors of criminology?Do these people watch the news or stick there heads out the window?(That's becoming dangerous too...) From what I'm seeing (unscientifically of course) Crime is getting WORSE! People are killing each other for friggin' sneakers! Robbing drug stores,setting old ladies on fire in elevators,shooting up family barbecues or christenings because they weren't invited,punching out a cashier for asking for proof of a purchase, There isn't enough room here to list how much more violent and uncivilized things have become.And not just in the large cities.I grew up and still live in the suburbs. Boy have things changed here!The cops are running non-stop calls around here 24/7.We have gunshot detectors on the streets and metal detectors in our schools. A far cry from the place that I spent my childhood in. As an old saying goes: Want to really know the weather? Turn off the box and look out the front door!

Mike 3770977

I agree!!! The state-run media is printing what the White House tells them to report. Total murders are setting records in my state. Crime is more rampant than ever before!!

Inflation is based on multiple factors not your personal experience. Overall inflation is very low. If you spend 20% of your earnings on food and 5% on transportation and food increases 50% in price but transportation goes down then of course you will have less money. This doesn't mean overall inflation is high. Furthermore, consiracy with a computer program inventing statistics? Please way to much FOX reality TV there. Get real!

Inflation? Didn't they revise this number to no longer include fuel, heat, electricity and health care costs????