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Jonathan Woods/msnbc.com
Su Zhen Chen, left, and Yan Tao Chen, parents of Pvt. Danny Chen, share memories of their son at their home in New York on Dec. 30. They are joined by his aunt Lucy Chen, right.
The family of a Chinese-American soldier believed to have committed suicide in Afghanistan after allegedly being hazed by his fellow soldiers has received "very sensitive" new information on the investigation from the Army, according to a family friend.
Army officials briefed the parents of Danny Chen for several hours on Wednesday at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn about the death of their 19-year-old son, said Frank Gee, an Army veteran and vice commander of the American Legion's New York branch who also attended.
"Basically they informed the family of what ... happened," said Gee, 72, who was called into the case to help translate for the Chen family. "... There is something new, but we are not authorized to divulge anything. It's very sensitive material because the prosecution is going on, the case is going on, and they don't want to jeopardize it."
Chen was found dead at a guard post on Oct. 3 at the remote Combat Outpost Palace in the Panjwa'i district of Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan. The Army announced in late December that it had charged eight of his fellow soldiers in his death.
Elizabeth Ouyang, New York branch president of OCA, a national civil rights organization serving Asian Pacific Americans, also attended the meeting but declined to comment on what was said. The Chen family held a press conference Thursday afternoon to discuss some details of the briefing.
Chen's mother, Su Zhen, and father, Yan Tao, both 49, were briefed by representatives from the Criminal Investigation Command (CID), the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's office and Regional Command-South, among others.
"The Army informed Private Chen's family of the administrative investigation's findings pertaining to the cause and manner of Private Chen's death, and the current status of court-martial proceedings arising out of the administrative and ongoing criminal investigations," an Army spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Amy Hannah, said Wednesday in a statement.
The charged soldiers have been assigned to a different forward operating base in Afghanistan, removed from active duty and placed under increased supervision of senior non-commissioned officers, Sgt. 1st Class Alan G. Davis, an Army spokesman, said in an email.
Jonathan D. Woods/msnbc.com
A shrine for Pvt. Danny Chen at his home in Manhattan last Friday.
There were no other known suicides at Combat Outpost Palace, where Chen was stationed, prior to his death and the regional command has no other cases of charges relating to suicides. The outpost came under 16 attacks, but no soldiers died as a result, Davis said.
Five of the eight soldiers were charged with involuntary manslaughter and negligent homicide, apparently the first time such charges have been brought in this type of case, military legal and hazing experts said. "The charges relate to conduct that occurred in the time leading up to his death," Davis wrote.
The CID said Tuesday that it investigated all deaths as if they were homicides and their query into Chen's death was not complete. CID agents on the ground were deployed within minutes of his death to begin the investigation, which generally includes interviews, toxicology reports and autopsies, said Chris Grey, chief of public affairs at USA Criminal Investigation Division.
“I know they (the Army spokesmen in Afghanistan) used the words 'apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound,' but our case is still ongoing," Grey said. "Seeing the nature of what’s going on with the soldiers being charged, etc., it did cause a little bit of confusion, but I can guarantee that our investigation is ongoing."
Abuse at base in Afghanistan
The death of their only child has taken a toll on the Chens, immigrants from Taishan in southern China.
A portrait of their son in uniform stood on a foldout table in their living room last week. Incense burned in front of the makeshift shrine illuminated by candles and his favorite foods had been placed on a paper plate: a chocolate chip cookie, a bag of Skittles, some Doritos and a Cup of Noodles with a fork placed in the soggy ramen. Alongside lay his military medals and the American flag that was draped over his casket.
His mother said that when she leaves the apartment in a towering lower Manhattan housing project, she stands in front of the shrine to tell her son that she'll be back.
"I tried to reason with Danny that it's very difficult in the Army, but Danny says, yeah he knows the difficulty in the service," said Su Zhen, trembling and tearful, as Gee translated from the Chinese dialect of her hometown. "If he got killed in the line of duty at the front line, that's different. But under the circumstances, I feel extremely sad because it was a suicide -- but driven to suicide."
When Chen enlisted in the Army, he saw it as the first step to achieving his dream of one day becoming a New York City police officer, his parents said. But some ten months after joining, the 6' 3" bespectacled Army private was dead.
The Chens said they had been informed in fits and starts about the circumstances of their son’s death and alleged hazing by his fellow soldiers.
Two soldiers and a chaplain came to the Chens' apartment on Oct. 3 to tell them that their son had died but not how. Three days later, they got a call from Army investigators informing them that their son had been subject to some abuse for not having turned off the hot water heater in the shower. They eventually were told that two instances of abuse were when he was dragged out of his bed and made to crawl on the ground while rocks were thrown at his back, and he was forced to do chin-ups while holding liquid in his mouth that he was not allowed to swallow or spit out.
Chen's father, Yan Tao, a cook, said it was difficult for them to comprehend what happened.
"Initially, there was a great shock when we found out that Danny got killed, but when this came out, we felt extra sad that it happened that particular way," he said, also speaking through a translator. "Things like that should not happen in the Army. I think they should have better control over the condition, or the atmosphere, at the base."
"We want the truth to come out, so if it turns out to be something even worse ... we are willing to accept that," he added.
Courtesy of the Chen family
Pvt. Danny Chen, left, with his mother, Su Zhen Chen.
In a book from the memorial service held for him on Oct. 6 in Afghanistan, one soldier described Chen like any member new to the unit -- timid and shy, while another recalled him as cheerful, laughing at all jokes, and reading his "ranger hand book and learning the different movement formations." Yet another recalled that he was a needed replacement, and took up the rifleman post.
"From what I heard about him Danny never complained and always kept a smile on his face," wrote Cpt. Allred in a tribute to Chen. "He was a determined member of the team who sought to find his place among the battle hardened platoon living in a relatively austere environment."
Final care package
Chen's parents don't accept that their son killed himself. His father pointed to a cardboard box encircled by priority mail tape sitting on the floor. It was the last care package they sent to him, which he asked for in his third phone call to them from Afghanistan on Sept. 27, six days before his death.
"In the latest telephone call, he still asked his mom to send all of this good stuff and there's no indication ... that he would do it," Yan Tao said.
Su Zhen also said her son had no history of depression. In their last talk, when she asked him how the other soldiers were treating him, he said it was nothing that she should be concerned about, "the normal stuff." She said he hadn't mentioned any problems and had never spoken of any trouble with his fellow GIs.
But a cousin, Banny Chen, 18, said that Chen had complained in a Feb. 27 letter sent while he was at basic training in Georgia that he had been picked on because of his ethnicity.
"Since I'm the only Chinese person here, everyone knows me by Chen," the letter said. "They ask if I'm from China like a few times a day. They also call out my name, Chen, in a goat-like voice sometimes for no reason. No idea how it started but its just best to ignore it, I still respond though to amuse them. People crack jokes about Chinese people all the time. I'm running out of jokes to comeback (sic) at them."
At the time, Banny said he "didn't think it was really a big deal because I thought he would be used to ... racist jokes."
The pair kept in touch on Facebook while Chen was in Afghanistan. There didn't seem to be any problems and he just asked for junk food and updates on the family. He did seem homesick, Banny said, and he shared a Facebook message from Chen that read "its hard work, but its what i signed up for (sic)."
"None of this was really expected," Banny said, noting the aftermath was "stressful because of all the mystery behind what really happened."
'Happy-go-lucky'
Chen spoke English, Cantonese and his parents' dialect, liked to play handball and video games and embraced Chinese culture, his father said, laughing at the memory of his son praying at Chinese New Year that his mother wouldn't get upset with him for the bad things he may do in the coming year. Yan Tao described his son as a bit mischievous at times, getting into small, inconsequential troubles, but his mother noted that he was "happy-go-lucky" and a good student.
Courtesy of the Chen family
Melissa Chen (from left), Emmi Chen, Pvt. Danny Chen, Banny Chen (with headphones), and Jason Chen pose for a photo as Danny holds up "rabbit ears" behind Jason.
A photo album he made in grade school showed him playing around with two cousins, including Banny. Other pictures from after completing basic training in Georgia showed him goofing around with relatives, putting "rabbit ears" on one of them.
"He was like the comic relief of the ... family," Banny said. "He used to get the class clown awards in elementary school."
Chen decided he wanted to become a police officer after being the victim of an attack following the family's move into the housing project on the Lower East Side several years ago from Chinatown -- the bustling, busy playground of his youth. Some boys chased him for blocks, calling him "Chinese." During the attack, he was punched in the head and his glasses were broken. A bystander intervened and called the police, but Danny said he did not want to press charges.
"Danny said ... (they're) very young so maybe it's very bad for them" in the future if they have a record, his aunt, Lucy Chen, recalled him saying. Tapping her chest, she said of Chen: "The heart is very good."
As the Chinese New Year approaches -- it is the last week in January, kicking off the Year of the Dragon -- the Chens have no plans to celebrate what is seen as the "renewal of life."
"I don't have the desire to do any of the ceremony that is normally associated with the Chinese New Year," Su Zhen said through sobs, noting the painful absence of her son's voice. "I'm too sad to participate."
Chen is buried at a cemetery in the New York suburbs. His parents have bought the plots next to his, so they can be together in death. Despite their loss, they said they hope that what happened to him will force the Army to make changes to prevent other deaths.
"Hopefully that's the case," Su Zhen said, "that he would not die in vain."
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“You cannot become thorough Americans if you think of yourselves in groups. America does not consist of groups. A man who thinks of himself as belonging to a particular national group in America has not yet become an American.” ~ Woodrow Wilson
The problem is that it was the others at the base who thought of Mr. Chen as belonging to a particular national group, they were the ones who continued to harp on this soldier's ethnic background. They were refusing to think of their fellow soldier as an American.
homesick.... I've seen this up close and personal in the military. But even if they thought what they thought, it was their actions that matter. I'm really disturbed that this soldiers higher ranking enlisted and his Lt did nothing to intervene. This is NOT acceptable. I would love to be part of the prosecution.
I'm pleased though to see the Army doing right by the family. I'm pleased that someone sat them down and explained what evidence they had and how they were going to go ahead with the prosecution. We can do this correctly. We can put the victims and their families first.
An american is an American theres no distinction between color or nationiol origin
This entire event really pisses me off. We as soldiers (or veterans) take enough crap from all these cry about anything and blame everything on our govt. beeatches. All these 8 azzholes did was give 1 more excuse to these babies on why we should cut our defense spending. Unless you were in the ME then you have no clue how much so many of these people hate us. Now we have this soldier who wanted to be a part of our brotherhood, who understood why we do what we do, and he was treated like this by the doushe bags that want to call themselves soldiers? We should take all 8 of them, leave them on the streets of Afganistan with no weapons, then publicize that they are there for the insurgents to do what they please. Let these POS understand what it's like to be surrounded by a group of people that hate you.
Wilson was a notorious racist. An example from Wikipedia: 'When a delegation of blacks protested the discriminatory actions, Wilson told them "segregation is not a humiliation but a benefit, and ought to be so regarded by you gentlemen." '
And who, exactly, is it that gets to 'decide' if somebody has 'become an American?'
So, Anthony, I guess in your view those people of Irish origin marching in St Patrick's Day parades aren't really American?
Appreciate all the condolences for Pvt. Chen. Sad to say but "racism" are not limited to just civilian life. These stuff happens all the time in the military and are often ignored or goes unreported.
What's even more sickening is that there are actually a good number of delusional morons (aka Anthony), whom will go out of their way to condone these kind of behaviors. One even goes as far as saying, "it's part of the bonding rituals of the barracks". Now that's TOTALLY DISGUSTING! What a shameful excuse or a human being!
You realize that Woodrow Wilson was a racist and a big fan of the KKK, right? THAT'S the source you choose to back up your argument?
I do not remember being bullish against others while in the service; we joked, called each other made up names, but hung around together , shared smokes, food ,beer, and watched each others back; I know things have changed , however something in this scenario does not fit, there is something not being told .
What a non-story. The whole article says "the army told the parents stuff we can't tell." Why not wait until the investigation is complete and info can be released?
The soldiers aren't the only ones not considering him American. Even the author of this news article calls him "Chinese-American" which would imply that he was something other than just and American.
As for jquerrer- a lot of bad people say good things on occasion... I highly doubt you're a saint.
I am American. My parents, parents, parents, parents were all born in this country. 100% American.
TaxMe... great... My forefathers go back to the Mayflower. It doesn't matter when we got here. This young man was willing to fight for his country and he was betrayed by his fellow soldiers. He was an American. it wasn't how long his family had been here. It was what he was willing to do for his country that made him an American.
Thank you for your service, Danny. May the truth be told and those responsible be held accountable.
If you arent 100% native american then your people immigrated to this country also!Its so stupid all this racism when only about 2% of the citizens in this country arent immigrants!
Anyone thats been to basic training knows the first thing they do is break everyone down..they come down on everyone to get people in the frame of mind that they are all soldiers..to look past color religion social status..then they build u back up together as a team...these 8 guys forgot their very first lesson in the military..u are all soldiers
How did the native americans get here? Everyone is an immigrant...just saying.
to the Chen family i can only imagine the grief you must feel and i feel compelled to ask you to please forgive us as a country and to say that Danny embodied everything it is to be a proud American. We lost a true patriot and a young man who was raised right. My heart sank when i read this story. Is this what America has become? In time , peace will come to you, but the guilty will never again feel peace.
Anthony (#51), Chen lost his life while engaged in defending the United States; if you are still living and have not done the same, he is more American than you are. The ones who are responsible for his death are America's worst enemies.
i am proud of my ancestery but hes right we need to look at our selves as americans not african americans not native americans not Irish americans we live in America the great melting pot. In that melying pot we become one group and that is American.
And we wonder why kids are bullies in school? Look at these 8 fine role models... this is so very sad. I hope the military will rid society of these 8 "cowards." To the family of PVT Chen... I am so sorry this happened to your wonderful son. He was a true American and these 8 soldiers are just scum of the earth who have no right to call themselves American in this situation.
TaxMan - you're no more American than anyone else unless you're American Indian and my guess is you would make fun of them. Anyone who comes to this country; serves this country; and becomes part of the efforts to continue to make this country better is American - whether born here or naturalized. This young man chose to serve our country and was belittled for being who he is. So sad that idiots don't realize - while they are putting someone down - the real problems are with themselves.
That and $3.50 will buy you a latte at Starbucks.
Weeeeeell, I see the internets are still on in the trailer parks of America.
It seems the military has slipped over the last twenty years. I know for sure that I'm not going to depend on some redneck in my outfit when my life's on the line. I'd want him out. Now. Send him back to his mommies house, and replace him with a man. I guess the military has changed, though.
I wish to thank these people for their sons service to his country. That is what it means to be an American.
But many of you wouldn't know anything about that.
This is just so sad. My heart breaks for the parents. To think that their son was harassed by his comrades-in-arms, that his fellow countrymen had such little appreciation for his desire to serve with them.....
I too feel for the parents and the soldier who only wanted to serve....and not knowing the details, or only sketchy details makes it harder to understand what happened....
..On the other side of the ledger, 'harrassment' by normal standards of definition is not uncommon in close military units...I have seen for myself men who served together, of different races, who would use the most vulgar, racist terms for each other....but only to each other...If anyone, ANYONE, else had dared to do the same, the entire unit would immediately close ranks and stand as one to defend their fellow soldier.....But, from what has been reported, this went far beyond that...
Why was Anthony in the first post collapsed??? WTH???
Gotta agree with you Chefaz. I guess quoting Woodrow Wilson is against the rules.
Thanks, DS. I don't get it. The quote is discussing our need for unity and there should have been no division between Danny Chen and his tormentors. My heart breaks over this and cannot possibly fathom the grief of the Chen family.
Who has taken it upon themselves to decide what I can or cannot read ?
Not able to comment on this senseless tragedy as it's just too disturbing.
Chefaz: Woodrow Wilson was a rabid white supremist who hosted KKK rallies at the White House and purged every person of color from the Federal civil service while he was in office. He single handedly set back the cause of equal civil rights in this country by decades. In this context, quoting Wilson on the subject of unity is offensive to many. At the very least, it's irrelevant (akin to quoting Kim Jong Il on civil rights).
So, Devil's Son, quoting Wilson is not against the rules, it's just poor taste and/or bad judgement in this case.
cntrya8: Are you suggesting that having to click on the "+" equates to deciding what you can or cannot read? I hope not. And, the serious answer to your question is the Texas School Board (among others). Because of its purchasing power, the Texas School Board practically dictates what and how US history is taught to all our children across the country. Trust me, the daily presence and impact of the kind of racism evidenced in this story is nowhere to found in the US history approved by the Texas School Board. James Loewen wrote an excellent book about the subject. Click here for a recent example of what I am talking about, or just look into it yourselves. ()
Blessings to Danny Chen's family and to this most courageous American warrior who laid down his life for this country. There is no greater sacrifice for the son they grieve.
Here's the link I meant to post:
It is disgusting to read about this matter and the dishonorable behavior of his tormentors. HOWEVER, what if it was not suicide, but murder done to look like suicide... ??
The only thing I can do is slowly shake my head when I read this article. No doubt these things go on but hopefully not frequently. Brothers-in-arms regardless of creed, colour or religion. That is and should be the paramount motto. Very disturbing. I read both Krakauers book on Tillman and Boots on the ground before dusk by Pat's mom. That too was a tragedy.
fightignorance, Thanks for the heads up. I'm not a historian, certainly not on Wilson and was totally unaware. I'll be researching that here on the idiot box later today. KKK is abhorrent to me. From the quote posted by Anthony, I would have thought just the opposite. It would seem to me that Anthony's intention was to show that we are all Americans, regardless of where our grandparents, etc., came from and Danny's ethnic background - or what ever was going on there - should not have been a rift with his fellow soldiers. May we all learn from this tragedy so that Danny's death is not in vain.
fightignorance, I just checked your home page and because you are new, this is probably why your link is not posting. You should be able to post links after a little time. Don't give up and stick with us. :)
What is wrong with those eight idiots..he is a brother in arms serving his country the USA with pride same as them. In battle you're together as one... have to respect,trust, support and live as one..or you'll all be dead!
I'm confused. If the eight Soldiers charged did not actually kill PVT Chen, why are some of them being charged with involuntery manslaughter and negliging homicide? Perhaps conduct unbecoming or something like that is more fair. They didn't put the barrel of PVT Chen's M-4 under his chin and pull the trigger, he did it himself.
.. and just how do you know this, Todd? That may well have been what happened, and it's still under investigation. Not so presumptuous next time..
"If the eight Soldiers charged did not actually kill PVT Chen..."
You're in the Army and know how hot they are on suicide. Private Chen's death in just the proximity of seven NCOs and a lieutenant is unacceptable. The Army will want blood for provocative behavior.
Yeah, I used to work at a place where the military abused a civilian man because he was a little nerdy and very educated. I think this man intimated them and they were embarrassed because he was smarter then they would ever be so they constantly made work a living hell for him. If this man ever commits suicide, I will have to let the media know how he was harrassed and how he was a constant target for these two insecure individuals. Before I retired I told the second in command about the abuse by the two military (MSgt and LtCol) folks but don't know if anything was ever done to these bullies because I intentially don't contact any of the folks that still work there.
Our military obviously has issues with leadership and the type of people who enlist. The Tillman case was another example of lack of leadership. This young man sounds like the exact kinda of person the military should be proud to have. The people who harassed him sound like the kind that should never been allowed to join. The vetting process is broken and the gap between qualified and unqualified enlistees has never been wider. Thank you Pvt Chen for your service to our country.
The problem is the Bush Administration kept lowering the enlistment standards because they weren't getting enough people to join for his wars. So you end up getting people you would never want to be alone with in a dark alley joining. Felons used to be banned from military service but not anymore.
To a certain extent you're correct, but it has nothing to do with the Bush administration per se. This has happened during every time in our national history when we mobilized large numbers of troops to engage in war. Rapid expansion of the force meant lowering standards for enlistment in all categories--physical, mental and moral. Many times this had a beneficial effect on the draftee/enlistee, but it also meant incorporating into the ranks criminal elements or at least those who lacked the moral and ethical character we would like to associate with our military. Converting to an all-volunteer military lessened the number of incidents but by no means eliminated it. I'm currently on active duty, in my 22nd year of service, and I've seen tremendous shifts in the quality of enlistees over the years. With the force again contracting due to budget constraints and the end of our involvement in Iraq, incidents like this will be fewer once again. But, as I said, they will never disappear entirely. Keep in mind that these are young men, many just out of high school, desperately trying to define themselves and form their moral character. Without effective leadership, this formative process can easily run askew. This was primarily a failure of leadership at the unit level as much as a failing on the part of the eight indicted Soldiers.
The Tillman case was a matter of a tragic accident and Pat Tillman's Ranger buddies wanting him to be viewed as a hero, not an accidental death. They were worried about Pat's name and his honor. There was good intent. But somewhere along the lines the family misinterpretted the intent as trying to hide their mistakes. That wasn't the case. But it got blown out of proportion and then the media got ahold of it...
I guess honesty is always the best policy no matter what, but Rangers are nothing but great men with good hearts. Dishonorable people very rarely make it into that elite unit. And even if they do, they don't last long because the unit as a very long and prestigious reputation that every Ranger upholds. They simply wanted their brother in arms to be remembered as a hero, not an accident.
Well stated Agdoc, from a 22 year retiree. Thank you for your service.
Sandy I agree with you.....we should take a top down approach, first to go into front line infantry combat units should be graduates from Harvard and Yale. lets see how many of the ruling class elite will then start wars if their punk kids have to go into the meat grinder.
believe me when I say I was glad to have lower working class kids a little rough around the edges working as door gunners than any effeminate punk from the ivy league, saved my life more than once.
if you have never been in combat you should not comment on what you may or may not would have done as it is only conjecture on your part.also it should be pointed out that this type of locker room behavior also goes on within police departments, so it makes me wonder if this kid had the mental toughness for this line of work.I feel he thought he could tough it out.
one more victim of political incorrectness in military boot camp rears its ugly head.......more to follow!
Every company I was in(3 in 2 years)has a clique of bigoted skin heads. Within a day or two, they stick out very plainly. On the other side of the coin, there were the same cliques of black and hispanic. Racism, I fear, will never totally die.
Sad but true~~
People tend to over-glorify the military and public service jobs, thinking that everyone enlisted or employed is doing so out of a sense of valor and bravery, whereas there are idiots to be found just like everyplace else. Like some cops who are immature punks with a badge, or volunteer fireman with an inflated hero complex, there are soldiers who enlisted because they simply couldn't get their sh** together or find a job anyplace else, then someone hands a gun and says to have at it,etc.. Honor and valor and service have littel to do with their existance. This kid seemed different and they made him pay for it. He probably had the misfortune of running in to a clique of those yahoos, and they draw strength from numbers since they are of limited intellect and integrity. The other shame is it does cast a negative impression on others in the military who DO join for the sense of service and commitment.
Exactly the point I've made many times. Those of us serving in the military are not a special breed drawn from a select stock. We are, fundamentally, a reflection of the society we serve, and as long as we field a force numbering over a million men/women in arms (in all four branches and the Coast Guard), we will continue to see a certain percentage of our service members who display prejudicial and even criminal behavior. Gang activity, sexual assault and prejudice based on race, religion, creed and gender are aggressively discouraged in the military but has always been present and, sadly, likely always will be to some extent. Standards are set by leadership from general staff down to the unit level. When leadership fails, incidents like this are far too common.
Bullies among brothers in arms~wonderful.... So very sorry to his parents and family, I pray they find peace.
This is just SO sad. I hope his tormentors get what they deserve through the justice system or karmically. RIP Private Chen. Thank you for service and may you find peace.
I could not have said it any better. I hope our soldier finds peace, and that the people who did this get whats coming. Karma is real, and all debts must be paid in full before departure.
I think that the Army needs to work on issues like this. Why are we losing good soldiers to petty hatreds?
The military justice system, the UCMJ, operates differently from civilian courts in terms of rights of the accused, gathering of and access to evidence, and the rules of procedure. I can assure you the eight involved Soldiers will be aggressively prosecuted while also being represented by competent counsel. If convicted, their sentences will be very harsh but proportional to their involvement. More importantly, it won't stop there. There will be a review of the command climate from the squad level up through the unit command and possibly beyond; and deficiencies will have a huge negative effect on the careers of those "leaders" who failed in their duties.
Thanks Trang. I'm pretty sure You can't help but find Peace if You live a life doing what You believe to be right. It is too bad that Peace for that moment had to come with death for Danny and sadness for those that knew Him.
Vengeance for the guilty will find it's own way. Through the legal process, I'm convinced that it only does occasionally and in part, but the process is not wasted. The real punishment for the guilty, even in their most intimate times, is they must sit in the presents of fear, hate, doubt, intolerance, resentment, despair and sadness. It's not humanly possible to escape it.
The sadness I feel is for those close to him. My hope is that they realize his life was not lived in vain. It really, really sucks that some must die so that others may live. Hopefully this will help us all to see a little clearer and change will come from this.
"Our vision will become clear only when We can look into our Own Hearts." K.J.
I pray each and every soldier involved is punished to the extent of the law. I for one KNOW first hand what its like to be seperated singled out in our armed forces.
It makes a fallacy out of the 'brothers in arms' concept. We need to get over ourselves when it comes to racism and bigotry and most especially within the ranks of our military. It should not be tolerated for one moment.
Just wondering...why are you a Muslim?
Because he is American and in American we have a choice. Why are you what you are?
Racism will never die so long as we continue to segregate ourselves into our little groups, both in the public sector and private. We do it every day by identifying this or that one as African-American, Native-American, Chinese American and so on. WE ARE AMERICANS. Whether you immigrated here 10yrs ago or were here when the first white settlers showed up doesn't change that fact. We need to work at identifying each other as People, not races or nationalities. This country was founded upon the belief that ALL men are created equal. By separating ourselves in groups based on race/nationality/religion we go against that belief.
My husband and son are both active service military and I am very proud of both of them. I am disgusted with the treatment this fine soldier received from those he should have been able to rely upon, and hope that if convicted they receive harsh sentences.
American Muslim, American Marine, Semper Fi brother.
The military is a mirror of our society. The enlisted ranks are not for the thin skinned or weak at heart,especially in boot camp. You see the true cruelty and animosity that lies in the human heart at it's worse. Most of the enlisted ranks are poor, uneducated, and come from horrible family backgrounds. The prejudice is inherited. This is nothing new. There is the way it should be and the way it is. Reality...what a concept.
If they are uneducated, which I doubt, because today you have to have graduated from high school, otherwise the military won't take you. Poor, most likely, and they all come from different family backgrounds. I hope the whole story comes out, why they did this to him, etc etc.
My heart goes out to his family. No person, military or non military should have to go thru this type of manure.
No, it isn't. The military comprises a very select portion out of our society so it doe not reflect it. Thus, we do not need civilian controls on those parts that are martial in nature. Oversight, perhaps, but not control and jurisdiction.
In reading this article, it appears different from prior articles in regards to when he was asked multiple times about his ethnicity. That, from this article, happened when he was in basic traiing and after he received orders to report to his new unit.
The throwing of rocks was wrong, but to make someone low crawl a long distance because they didn't do their job is not wrong. Neither is making him do chin-ups for another infraction. "Blanket parties" happen for a reason.
hmmm im wondering if you might be one of the idiot type who believe that punishment like this is ok... For your info, it is not.
If something is not done or someone is not doing their job in the military, they are handled by their superiors, not the lower ranked soldiers in the platoon. It is never ok for a "blanket party" get out of the 50's will ya, and wow he left the heater on for the hot water in the shower.. ohhhh dam that must be a hell of a crime.
Hazing, no mater what form should never be entertained or allowed in our military system, and any idiot who thinks its ok for it, or "blanket parties" should pull your head out of your a$$, all that does is cause distrust and animosity between the soldiers. Any soldier who feels it is ok to harass or Haze another soldier because of their ethnicity or anything, should be sitting infront of an article 15 hearing and then dishonorably discharged. PERIOD!
During my tour in the first Gulf War, i was along side many friends of different ethnicities, but they all were "American Soldiers" and the only thing that mattered was that we were all in the same game, protecting and looking out for one another and doing our jobs.
To the young man's family, i wish to offer my repsects and condolences. To Private Chen, i wish to say thank you, for being brave enough to place your life on the line for this country that you believed in and for doing your job to help protect it. Rest in peace young man.
tiny, maybe you should look in the mirror before calling someone an idiot. I wonder if your nickname happened to be the Walking Eagle when you were in the service because you appear to be too full of crap to fly.
I would bet you are also the type that thinks everyone should get a trophy just for participating in something and we shouldn't keep score for kids because someone may get their feelings hurt.
bookemdanno-you sound like a closet bully. I suppose actions like this make you feel like a big tough woman/man, whatever you are.
So you have no productive counter-point at all to make, Bookem', so you resort to off-topic personal attacks? Sounds about right. I'm going out on a limb and guess that you're a Republican? Tiny seems to have hit the nail on the head.
This is pathetic. These are supposed to be young adults who should be over this racist BS...I feel for the family...I hope they find peace...
bluepanther20,You are extremely naive' or have led a very sheltered life. Do you believe that the GOP has stopped or stalled every thing the President has done because he is a Democrat.
Jdaniels: Save your political trolling for a topic where you fit in.
jdaniels1 Actually, yes, that is one of the biggest reasons. The GOP because drunk with power and when they not only lost it but lost it to a black democrat, the party went freaking nuts. Crap, dude, just look at all the damage they have caused just trying to make him look bad. And its not like its a freakin mystery. Mitch McConnell, John Boerhner and Eric Cantor ALL said, in front of the camera, that the ONLY job they have is making Obama a one term President. Do you need each of them to write you a personal letter, signed and notarized?
jdaniels1: Yes the whole lot of the GOP is racist. Look at congressmen on the Balconies of the Capital cheering on TeaBaggers holding Racist pics of Obama and spitting on Black Congressional members. The leaders of the Congressional delegation have all said no mattter if it takes bringing down America Obama is going to be a 1 term Pres. They have tried through thier mouthpice Faux News to blame Obama with Everything from Bush's failed Economic mess to Bush's Trillion Dollar debt caused by Bush tax breaks (unfunded) Wars(unfunded)Tarp(unfunded)yet as soon as Obama tries to turn Bush's screwups around they fight him on it and then try to pin it on him.
Funny how only people who don't support your views are somehow now racist,you suffer from that disease FOS
Great--a discussion on racism in the military has again drawn out the politi-trolls with a personal axe to grind. Robert--the spitting incidents, IF they occurred anywhere other than the imaginations of the liberal press, involved a tiny lunatic fringe of the TP movement and are not representative of the vast majority, just as the rapists and murderers and criminal elements that have tainted the OWS movement are not remotely representative of that movement. And for you and Carlo to blame--however tangentially--the GOP (or Obama, for that matter) for this or any similar incident is, frankly, brainless nonsense. The point has been made many times in prior comments that the military, especially a volunteer military, is a reflection of the society from which it is drawn. If you want to find someone to blame for bigotted intolerance, take a long look in the mirror.
oh so true bluepanther20, but unfortunately it all begins at home, children will imitate what they see around them and what is allowed by their parents and will carry this "attitude" with them thinking it's ok to belittle others and treat them as lower class humans. Unfortunatly, as of yet there is no mind reading equipment to ensure this type of pathetic atitude is kept out of our military.
jdaniels1, this is all about another user. Avoid that, and avoid interviewing users about stuff that isn't even germane to the topic. You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Prove it Lachney..........
Given how thin his skin was, they should have issued him an additional set of body armor. Thank God the enemy didn't call him names or he may have killed himself even sooner. A real "Army of One". John Rambo has nothing on this guy.
You were obviously never in the service. Hopefully you enjoy the freedom to be stupid that this soldier provides you with. Enjoy!
God had nothing to do with his death, it was bigoted racists, like yourself, that are the problem.
I'm not a racist! Chickensh*ts like this guy come in all colors and from all ethnicities, even mine. And I did serve in the Army, protecting your right to mouth off however you please. You can thank me or not. I care less, Gayner. Nullius pavet occursum.
A family is grieving over the loss of their son who was barely out of childhood. Your comment is unwarranted and in poor taste.
Thanatos--you're exactly the type of moron we try very aggressively to keep OUT of the military. Unfortunately, enough knuckle draggers like you sneak through to cause incidents like this and taint the military in general and the enlisted ranks in particular. I bet you were a real hoot on the playground stealing the younger girls lunch money.
11 isn't respectful but it's not a violation. Restored. These are violations:
Kayner, Jake Reyna, Mr. Thanatos, Agdoc, you're each suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Zee-3933036 did a good job of following that.
Last night, I celebrated my one day suspension by having Chinese chicken for dinner. It seemed appropriate. Afterwards, I called one of my old Army buddies and told him all about it. We laughed and laughed. Two tears in a bucket...
I'm in no way including Pvt. Chen in this remark, he seemed like a fine young man, however the Army has the lowest enlistment standards of all the branches. Their recruiters are under tremendous pressure to make their numbers, they are threatened almost on a daily basis with disciplinary action, career ruination and discharge. As a result, quite a number of recruits are accepted that shouldn't be(not the individual recruiters fault) their superiors are also threatened in the same way, once again as a result, "waivers" are granted and otherwise unqualified people are let in. The Abu Garibe prison incident is a good example of this system. I really don't know the answer but the present system is unacceptable.
The answer is the draft. If you had an equitable draft there would be far less of these world police and fabricated wars. As soon as the equitable draft(rich and poor) was enacted, the Vietnam war was soon ended. The poor and uneducated can easily be swayed but the well to do and educated know better.
ROFL!!! Dude, you really do live in your Mom´s basement. When has the United States, or any country, EVER had an equitable draft? The poor get drafted and the rich get deferments. I joined the army in 1973, when there were still many people serving who had been drafted for Vietnam and NONE of them came from families making more than $50,000 a year. NONE. Not one. Why do you think the military has to bribe people to join with college, job training and home loans? Do you really think they are trying to appeal to the rich? Really? Put you pants on, come up to the real world and see for yourself.
oh, and by the way, check to see how many members of Congress, all of who are rich, have children serving in the military since 2000. Again: NOT ONE.
Draft: since when has the draft ever been equal especiallyfor the Republican parties. Republicans used to be able to hire someone to take their place in the draft. That was outlawed, so they came up with deferrments for Education which again only served the ones that could afford College Education at the time the Rich (Republicans) As soon as Cheney found out he put in for deferment not once but 5 times. Republicans sawthey were losing this battle of pupblic opinion big time so they passed an all volunter enlistment.
Carlo, again you're wrong. I suggest you do a little research Duncan Hunter RCa,John Kline R Minn and others. Robert only Republicans huh you pitiful party hack
Robert and Carlo--you two always seem to comment together. Are you a couple? And for a couple of knuckle draggers who pretend to be informed, you're sadly lacking in knowledge. Attacking your brainless comments one by one would involve far more time and effort than they're worth. Suffice it to say that you're wrong--COMICALLY wrong--on every point. Equating the conditions in the military of today with what you allegedly endured in the 1970's (if you really served at all) is beyond stupid. And making this a political issue is equally dimwitted.
An "equitable" draft would be to require ALL highschool grads to do 2yrs of military service prior to college or whatever else they plan on doing. And I mean ALL. Other countries do it. It wouldnt' hurt them any and would keep our military ready for what may happen next. My son has done 4 tours in Iraq since he reupped after 9/11. With a draft, those soldiers who are continually going back and forth now would be replaced by fresh troops, rather than those just getting their lives straightened out home only to go back again.
And Robert Lachney, FYI, the Most famous one to PAY another to go to war in his place later became President. Grover Cleveland...A DEMOCRAT.
I was very saddened by this article, first at the loss of such a fine young man and second, by the lack of respect our military has for people who are bullied. If this is their way of building a man, then they just don't get it. This isn't morale building in any way, shape or form. This soldier's immediate supervisor should have taken action when this grew to more than name-calling. I hope the court martial brings out what truly happened to private Chen and that both he and his family get some closure and peace.
kacz--this had nothing to do with the policies of the military in general and the Army in particular. Standards of conduct are clearly stated and are supposed to be rigidly enforced. For this incident to have occurred speaks to a lack of leadership beginning at the squad level and continuing up through the climate of command at least to the company level if not beyond. This was a failure to observe clearly defined standards, not a failure of the standards themselves.
anyone that died in afghanistan died ''in vain''
Ahhh, the grand poobah who sees all and knows all has arrived to bequeath his omniscience to we lesser mortals. How benevolent of you, sire, to condescend to we patriots who believe some things are worth sacrifice.
What - or more telling, perhaps, who -would you be willing to put your life on the line for?
Pvt Chen was willing to do so as an American soldier and desired to do so as a policeman later.
He doesn't need your Phil Donahue-esque drippings as a side order to his offering to his adopted homeland. Take your garbage elsewhere...the Middle East, perhaps.
Great response!!!!!!!!!!!! You said it all!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks
Michael Martin-
I did my time .65-68 Vietnam/Marines Force Recon. It was a waste.Afghanistan grows and supplies the worlds heroin,after we lose and withdraw they still will be doing that. My son also Force recon marine did 2 tours there,said it was ''a waste of time ,lives and money, they dont want to win, they just want to keep it going''.Ten years, and nothing has changed? I'd say you are the one spewing garbage, or maybe just BS.
Mr T ... you are either a troll or the proud owner of a low double digit IQ. A man who is fighting for his country dies, and you use it as an opportunity to display your ignorance. I hope that you do not have children to whom you might pass on your blatant ignorance and cruelty.
A true soldier doesn’t beat down and abuse his fellow comrade in arms. This is the work of cowards and thugs. Whether they took part in this brave soldiers death or harassed him to the point of taking his own life, they should be punished to the harshest extent allowed by military law. To think these men are still in the field as active is appalling as well. They should be stripped of service duties pending this investigation.
To the Family of Pvt. Chen: I will pray for you everyday. Your son was the epitome of a great American. He wanted to serve and he chose to serve no matter what he had to go through to do so. And he NEVER complained or gave up. Cowardly bigots with little sense of self or country could not muster enough courage to even put a gun to their own heads, so they took their disgust and dislike for themselves out on your son. Shame on them and on those in authority who allowed it to happen. Be proud of your son, strong in your faith, and know that in the hearts and minds of true Americans, he is ranked highest among true American heroes. Be strong and never discouraged. No matter what happens in the American justice system, God has a justice system that prevails over all and knows all truth. The guilty will receive their earned wages.
There must have been allot more happening at the base, because as far as "hazing him" buy calling him by his last name, which is how everybody is referred to, and making fun of it, which is done by every DI (or in the Navy CC) in the game, is pretty normal. I was "weak arms" because of my name until the found out I was from a dairy farm and then I was "cow #$$@er". War sucks!!! It puts young men from all walks of life in situations that you could never really be repaired for. My condolences to the family and I hope that the military gets to the bottom of what really happened.
Is that English? What are you talking about?
Freudian slip (well, not really, since the rest of the comment made little sense). But yeah... Our soldiers can never really be "repaired" from war.
MMC, I don't think your post was senseless and made perfect sense. At basic training he was asked about his ethnicity and his last name was said with a "goat like" voice. Things like this were not uncommon.
When you throw several people from all different walks of life and backgrounds into a tense, unfamiliar situation, you are bound to have people who don't get along....for whatever reason. When I was in basic training, I got in a fight. I was the squad leader and we had a guy who would not get up and do his duties. I didn't like him because he was lazy and was not pulling his weight in the squad...and causing our squad to be punished for his actions.
After learning that more than one clique of soldiers raped civilians, executed two and three generations of a family (infant included), burned their house, killed a teenage farm boy with a grenade blast point blank, cut fingers off of corpses for souvenirs - and that is just what has managed to get past the media blackout - the news that they were bullying a fellow soldier should not surprise anyone.
I spent 6 yrs in the army.I have not seen these type of action,68-1973.One yr in VN infantry.Back then soilders respected each other.it was a hard job.Now it seems no matter where a person goes there are idiots.The men responsible should most deff be held accountable.Another example of a human life wasted.I wonder now if these fool soilders and thier parents are proud.Chen s family seem to have raised a decent son..
I am sick and tired of once again seeing responsibility for one's actions being shifted to blame others. Chen was in the infantry, INFANTRY. For those of you that have never served in the Army, the purpose of the infantry is to kill people-period, and in a war, they are the "point of the spear". Nothing in basic training or advanced combat training prepares soldiers for the rigors of actual combat, and in every war, their were those that just could not handle the rigors and demands in a combat environment and chose to end their lives. There is NO amount of harrassment that equates to the demands on the human mind and body in combat, and previous generations of soldiers usually found that the more rigorous the training AND more rigorous the mental demands, the more able they were to function in a combat environment. The axiom was, "the more you can take the stronger you are" in combat AND if taken as as prisoner of war. In the "new" military, soldiers are given more training in sexual harrassment and "diversity" than bayonet, they attend more classes on substance abuse and family violence than they do hand-to-hand combat, they are allowed to take "time out" if they feel stress, are depressed, or have a blister on their toe, and we wonder WHY they shut down when exposed to war in an isolated, envoronmentally lethal region of the world or become a combat stress casualty. It's because they are physically strong but mentally fragile. Bottom line here is that if PVT Chen could not take some minor hazing from his team he should not have been in the military, let alone the infantry, and he himself did NOT indicate anything more significant in letters home. Usually in isolated combat environments soldiers tell everything they are experiencing in letters, and I find it hard to believe that a whole squad of soldiers caused the death of this young man. Chen killed himself because he couldn't take the rigors of his job - get over it, and quit trying to turn it into a "color of skin" or ethnicity issue and make an example of his fellow-soldiers to satiate the political correctness crowd. G White, I spent 33 yers in the Infantry and SF including 4 tours in Vietnam, and we must have been in a different Army, for the harrassment, training, and mental conditioning then made today's Army look like an extension of high school 101!
Are you a veteran, JP?
Dude, you are OFFENSIVE!!!!! GRRRRR!!! People like you, wannabes, REALLY piss me off. You have no idea what combat is like and you have never been in the military AT ALL.
"Bottom line here is that if PVT Chen could not take some minor hazing from his team he should not have been in the military."
"MINOR HAZING??" Who's the enemy here? The insurgents or the members in PVT Chen's outfit? What a foolish, stupid, disgraceful thing to say, old man. Thank goodness you don't wear a uniform anymore.
am i the only one who doesn't believe it was suicide?
Finally someone with sense speaks up. I was in the Marines and this kind of stuff was constant - especially if you were from Texas. What you had to do was to prove your mettle, then you were left alone. Back in the 70's, too, there were a lot of charges re: racism but there were always enough exceptions to prove that it was not an institutional defect but only a matter of individual character - some guys still retained their 'back on the block" attitude and some became Marines in their minds and hearts.
The Army needs to quit pampering its soldiers and reinvigorate the ideal of the better days of the Army....that involves being willing to flush put the PC crap and quit trying to civilianize the ranks.
Semper Fi...
What was the "major hazing" the, mtnbikerZom? From the article, he was made to low crawl and do chin ups after he was in country. Prior to that, he was called names in basic training.
JP is right, the Army basic training is different today than even 10 - 20 years ago. The Army has one job - win at war. Thus the training should all be geared towards winning and handling the stressors that are associated with completing the mission.
JP--I've made the point repeatedly that standards of conduct are clear and unmistakable, but depend on enforcement by leadership from the squad level on up. Despite the dimwitted comments by phony-Rambo Carlo, you make some good points. Not everyone is mentally suited to be in combat arms. Until we know all the facts of what occurred, it's impossible to know how much the conduct of Pvt. Chen's squad went above and beyond what is acceptable intra-unit discipline. Nothing I've read seems that excessive; however, it does appear he was isolated within his unit, felt ostracized much like the "Pvt Gomer" character in Full Metal Jacket, and simply lacked the mental toughness to see it through. That's not a condemnation of Pvt. Chen. He likely would have thrived in another MOS other than combat arms; too bad this wasn't recognized and he wasn't reassigned. And I also agree the P.C. movement has gone overboard within the current military. I disagree that our Soldiers aren't as well trained, but perhaps the mental toughness issue has some validity. Despite that, our service members have done/are still doing a damn fine job.
Book 'Em Danno, Michael Martin:
There was a confirmed, verified report in another article that says Private Chen was found unconscious battered and bruised one morning after 8 superior officers dragged him out of bed the night before for failing to turn off the hot water heater after a shower.
It DOES NOT take 8 superior officers to discipline one 19 year old Private for 'failure to pay attention to detail'. Such discipline should have included extra duty/chores or possibly extra PT, not assault and battery, and the commanding officers of the unit should have been aware that this was happening.
JP said:
Bottom line here is that if PVT Chen could not take some minor hazing from his team he should not have been in the military, let alone the infantry, and he himself did NOT indicate anything more significant in letters home. Usually in isolated combat environments soldiers tell everything they are experiencing in letters...
Being dragged from bed in the middle of the night by 8 superior officers and beaten into unconsciousness is considered minor hazing? Thank you for enlightening me. What would be considered 'major hazing?'
His mother was against him going into the military, so he might have felt that if he was candid he might have gotten an 'I told you so' from his family. Another article says that his father asked him point blank if he was being bullied and he told his Dad he would rather not answer that question, which to me indicates that there may have been something going on that he didn't want to say.
Rather more telling is that he kept a diary; when the Army sent his things home they gave his parents 3 redacted pages and kept the rest, one assumes for 'evidence'. This could indicate that there was more happening there than the press has had access to. And given the rules set forth in the Manuals for Courts-Martial (MCM) and the directives in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) the convening authority would not have preferred the charges in article 93,128, and 134 without concrete evidence those statutes had been violated.
Amanda, thank you. That was not in this article which lead to my question. From this article, it did not appear any more than that he was made to low crawl and do chin-ups.
While his death is tragic, this article does not give enough information to show such scorn for those being accused. The situation reminds me of A Few Good Men. Understanding this is not a movie, it does seem to be a similar scenario.
What the eight have done will scar them for life, and anyone else who know about it and did nothing. The eight will go exactly where they belong, nowhere in life bcz of black mark on there military record. I trust they will not have a moments peace in their life and every second of their life will be a living hell. Karma's a bitch!!
My heart goes out to the family.
What a useless article - "sensitive information given to the family but we aren't telling you what." Obviously Ms. Leitsinger (the reporter) had a deadline to meet and started an article with useless information and finished it with previously published information.
There has to be more to this story than what is being reported, so I reckon we'll have to wait until the courts-martial, if those proceedings are published.
When I was in the Army, it was normal to insult each other and call each other names, for every race, nationality, and religion was represented, and nobody was immune to the teasing and joking.
But, what is described here doesn't sound possible, for at a minimum, there would have been immediate fisticuffs, or some other physical retaliation, maybe even a gunfight.
Remember, these are full grown men, all of whom have been trained to kill people, so for anyone, even fellow soldiers, to deliberately provoke one of them is like playing with a stick of dynamite.
Still, I do remember a cook from Oklahoma in Viet Nam who was teased until he was given an immediate transfer out of the combat area and discharged from the Army for psychiatric reasons.
I'm also suspicious that this is all there is to the story. I was in the military (and a women yet - and almost 2 decades ago) and agree, there was some verbal rough-housing. Most of which was good natured. And even if not good natured, it's rarely hostile; it's just machismo. Not sure about the rocks, but that sounds like typical Army hazing. I mean, they made me crawl on the ground under barbwire and shot blanks at me. It was called the obstacle course.
Most people so emotionally sensitive that they'd kill themselves over bullying are weeded out in basic training.
The fact that those charged for the incident are NCOs and an officer seems odd.
This whole thing just strikes me as incredibly weird.
HAHA.... exactly, you're a weak woman who never felt 1/8th of the potential a male would. Count yourself lucky to have a vagina, don't blame the victim.
you said "When I was in the Army, it was normal to insult each other and call each other names, for every race, nationality, and religion was represented, and nobody was immune to the teasing and joking."
Which basically sums up the intelligence of any fool who would enlist to die. Keep teasing each other to keep your minds off the stupid decision :)
My sincere condolences to this fine family. It is sad but true that there are members in our armed forces who cannot make it on the streets of the U.S. and so they enlist in the military, particularly the Army. Then somehow these misfits of society find their like kind and forget any training they had in regards to honor and brotherhood. That being said, his platoon sargent or LT should have intervened. The type of behavior discussed is intolerable. I too have a military son with almost 20 years service. And he has been responsible for cleaning up units that fail to meet the moral code that most Americans adhere too. At 19 Mr. Chen did not have the experience needed to deal with these animals who were supposed to be watching after him in this horrible place called Afghanistan. My husband once told me when he entered the Army during Vietnam that being stationed in the South for basic was an eye opener. The redneck attitude towards african american soldiers was horrendous, something he had never seen in his life. Once again I will pray for this family that they might find some peace and answers in their journey.
Nieka, one can only hope that the 35 or so years after Vietnam, the South's attitudes towards African Americans has modified.
To the Chen family, you have my deepest sympathy on the loss of your beloved son. May he R.I.P.
I know I'm going to ruffle a few army feathers but, NEVER let your children join the army. My husband is a high ranking member of another service and part of allied command. He said that the lowest rank of any other service is smarter than the highest level army officer. He said it takes 10 men in the army, what would take one of any other service. When the army is in control of anything in the middle east they leave a complete and total mess of things when they leave. Other military branches are then sent in to fix everything and everyone they burned in their tracks. Example what service has been responsible for most if not ALL the atrocities in the current wars, ARMY. Abu Garab, kill teams, hazing, rapes, Tillman, selling military weapons to drug cartels... etc, look at a few disturbing you tube video's and tell me, do you see any other service involved..... The Army takes soldiers that could NEVER get into any other service, drug and criminal backgrounds, mental issues, skin heads, gang members and then we give these men a gun and power. The army used to not require a high school diploma but I think that has changed. The Army has the highest PTSD rates and suicides...... it's because a large number of them are not mentally capable of rejoining society when they get back, because they were a misfit of society when they went in. Who do you see on news channels giving "expert military opinion" army.... The other services would never think they had the right to second guess current commanders or act like they had inside information and if they did they wouldn't tell the news about it. As for West Point the worst academy we have they are producing this current mess of commanders we have in the middle east. So thanks Army for making some in the military look like a bunch of mindless loosers when I turn on the news. I know what would save the current defence budget.... dismantle the entire Army and strengthen the other services, that would solve most of our military problems! No my husband is not a Marine, however he says that Marines are the only service he wants to use when he needs something done on the ground, because it is always done right the first time.
Nevada Lee, What branch of service has the most resonsibility for much of what is done in wars on the ground? Hint, it isn't the Air Force or the Navy or even the Marine Corps. Thus to state that all bad is branch related is naive at best.
The strenght of the Army is almost 150,000 more than the next closest branch. Since the strenght is so much more, they are willing to allow certain "less desirable" people into the service. Furthermore, I would doubt that all other branches are immune to letting in gang members, skin heads, etc.
I personally saw an entire squad of Marines get obliterated after rushing a building in southern Iraq. They called for fire, and proceeded to enter and try to clear the building before their Abrams leveled the building with them inside. True story and not something i like to remember personally. Because it was my platoon of ARMY Scouts who had to do the CASEVAC. Why? Because 10 of us were Combat Lifesavers...the medic before the medic. And if anyone wonders or questions why Marines and Army were in the same AO, then they have no idea how war truly works. I've had AFSOC TACs attached to my unit as well.
Oh and btw...the only place in the US Military where tankers train is or was on Ft. Knox, KY when I was in. That's the Army and Marines together.