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Gay and lesbian activists protested outside the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City, Utah, in 2009.
Forget San Francisco (18th) or New York (not even on the list) — the gayest city in the U.S. is Salt Lake City, Utah, according to The Advocate, the gay and lesbian newsmagazine.
Rather than rely on the U.S. Census tabulation of gay and lesbian populations, which inevitably yield San Francisco as No. 1, The Advocate used different measures to establish "per capita queerness" — including a city's number of teams entered in the Gay Softball World Series, gay bookstores, openly gay elected officials and semifinalists in the International Mr. Leather Contest, which is held every year in Chicago.
"While those unfamiliar with the Beehive State are likely to conjure images of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, far-less-oppressive-than-it-used-to-be Salt Lake City has earned its queer cred," the magazine says.
Among Salt Lake City's charms: the Sundance Film Festival, which brings LGBT film buffs flocking to the city.
Read the full story at The Advocate
"If we were having a more scientific survey, I don't know that we would choose these as indicators," Valerie Larabee, director of the Utah Pride Center in Salt Lake City, told the Salt Lake Tribune.
But "all humor aside, I think that our city has come a long way," Larabee said, noting that Salt Lake City was the first municipality in the state to pass anti-discrimination ordinances based on a sexual orientation.
"If we were to rate the cities that have made the greatest amount of progress over the last 10 years, I think we certainly would rank among the top," she said.
Orlando, Fla., was second, thanks to annual Gay Days at Disney World and "more gay softball teams than you can shake a Louisville Slugger at."
And Knoxville, Tenn., has managed to produce a "robust gay scene" despite being in what the magazine calls a state with a legislature that "has been an unmitigated disaster for our rights." It ranks eighth, thanks to "gay-affirming churches" and a thriving LGBT club scene.
Here's the complete list from The Advocate:
1. Salt Lake City, Utah
2. Orlando, Fla.
3. Cambridge, Mass.
4. Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
5. Seattle
6. Ann Arbor, Mich.
7. St. Paul-Minneapolis, Minn.
8. Knoxville, Tenn.
9. Atlanta
10. Grand Rapids, Mich.
11. Little Rock, Ark.
12. Portland, Ore.
13. Austin, Texas
14. Long Beach, Calif.
15. Denver
16. Washington
17. New Orleans
18. San Francisco
19. Pittsburgh
20. Salem, Ore.
21. Madison, Wis.
22. Eugene, Ore.
23. Oakland, Calif.
24. Boston
25. Kansas City, Mo.
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..now THIS is rich!!!!....the most conservative town..in the most conservative state!!!!....gotta love it!!...
SLC is NOT the most conservative town in Utah. Not by a long shot. That would be Provo, I think. SLC has had democratic mayors, and a democratic representitive to the US House. SLC is more like a liberal bastion in a very conservative state.
That equation is pretty hilarious - Seattle scored in eight of the nine categories! [No Imperial Court.]
San Francisco must be pissed.............
This is probably because the Mormons know a thing or two about being persecuted. This causes them to have more of a live and let live attitude than most would expect.
Aren't bars "barred' in Salt Lake City?
Anyone whose ever been to Key West FL is scratching their head wondering how on Earth that city didn't make the list. No New York and no Key West? No Rehoboth Beach DE?
I quickly came to the conclusion that the list is phony. When " semifinalists in the International Mr. Leather Contest" is a criteria to count the population of a certain demographic, you know the person who created this "list" chose his own criteria so that he could create his own results.
There's NOTHING to see here but non-objective criteria that led to non-objective results. The data was constructed in a way that would put SLC up top. I bet there's more gay people in 15 square blocks of NYC than there is in ALL of Utah.
Another shoddy reporting job - and they couldnt even link to the original article.
This list - noted by Advocate, acknowledges that the BIG CITIES are at the top - these are the lesser well known ones...
Rest Assured, they still figured SF, NY, CHI, ect...to be kings of the gay hill.
That said, it's nice to see the small-sized big cities getting the notice they deserve.
Grand Rapids MI might not have a traditional "gay neighborhood" but the city overall, in my opinion...is a great place for a gay person to live.
At least, in this lesbians opinion.
A couple decades ago I was soaking in a northern SLC hot springs and talking to folks in their early 20's. I asked about things in general and they said things were improving as the old folks died off. What I had seen in SLC was, to me, one giant horror story.
The gay aspect of things wouldn't have occurred to me. SLC topping this list is a surprise.
I think JS has got it right. I know when a lot of my mormon friends come back from "mission" they always comment about finally realizing how annoying in-your-face bible thumpers can be to people and how they'll try to stay out of people's business in the future. I seem to get that "elf-righteous"out of their system. Alot but not all. Probably explains why Mitt is a moderate.
actually salt lake city is not the most "conservative town," etc., an easy to have misconception. slc, itself (that is, within the city limits), may be considered as an enclave of generally liberal-leaning, live and let live attitudes within a very red state. the state legislature certainly considers it such, as they keep gerrymandering in order to dilute the voting strength of the city. our previous mayor, an aclu attorney, was considered by some mainstream publications to be "the most liberal mayor in america." there's good reason many salt lakers consider living there as "living behind the zion curtain," but most of us love it -- in our own fashion, ahem -- anyway.
That's not a surprise since many Mormon men are "light in the shoes" and eventually have to face their true sexual orientation, and women don't learn how bad the men are in bed until after marriage, and along with sexist beliefs, it turns women off of hetero relationships. Utah also has a large number of smokers. Maybe it's rebellion against a restrictive theocratic society overall.
But the temple marriage policies that are still based on polygamy, the modern revelation excuse for changing doctrine all the time, the special underwear, baptism of the dead, etc. is so far out of mainstream religion that it is out of the question for a Mormon to ever be POTUS and leader of the free world.
gay baseball teams and gay leather contests determine gay populations? What crap. What pandering to the guppies. Who owns the Advocate, anyway?
Uh JD, the mormon church was behind Prop 8 in California
I've yet to meet any Mormon who was an honest-to-God @!$%#. Their religious beliefs might be a little fubar'd but, seriously, I've always found them to individually be very polite, charitable and well-meaning people.
Honestly, the only GOP candidates I really do not want to see getting the White House are Santorum and Gingrich. I don't think @!$%# would hit the fan to the extent people believe if Romney, Huntsman or Paul were in office, the bile getting spewed this election season notwithstanding.
As a Salt Lake City resident, I can assure the "Righteouslature" has its collective panties in a knot over this.
My girlfriend and I laughed aloud when we saw the news last night.
Conservatives oppose everything, but they can't stop it.
Sodom and Gomorrah still win, hands down!
Sorry San Fran and Salt Lake....maybe in another millenium...
Ironically though, "Lot's wife turned into a pillar of Salt"...with that in mind, Salt Lake city might be the real deal folks...they dont call it "Salt Lake" for no reason...just saying
And the LDS Church was also behind the passage of the anti-discrimination ordinance in SLC.
DocHoliday, you cannot be serious... really?! What an absurd diatribe.
@ Eric
The mormon church was not "behind" the Prop 8 in California. If you look at the number of other churches who took stands, and the demographics of the votes, perhaps you would change your uneducated comment to read something more like: Many mormons, along with Lutherins, Catholics, Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. had strong opinions about Prop 8.
As a soon-to-be resident of Ft. Lauderdale or Orlando, I lol'd at this. Good for gays!
@tru-patriot: First off Mormons are anything but light in the shoes. Call me that again and I will kick your @$$. Don't mistake politeness for being Gay. Also, the smoking rate in Utah is the lowest in the nation at about 9.8%. Women are not oppressed and no, SLC is not the gayest city in America.
PS> How does a person who goes by the name of true-patriot so blatantly go against the constitution by applying a religious test to the office of POTUS. It leaves me to ask the question, if your are a true patriot, of which country? Certainly not America.
It use to be when I was growing up if anyone knew you were gay you got the crap beat out of you , now if you disagree with gay rights they will beat the crap out of you, gays will get theirs in the end ......oops thats what they want, my bad.
Wayne 3043511 - First, welcome to the 21st century, where one day this nation may just wake up to EQUAL RIGHTs for everyone. As for obtuse comment about "gays get theirs in the end......oops thats what they want, my bad..." are you so afraid that a gay man is going to treat you the way you treat women?
As for this article.. The criterion you used? How laughable, but I guess that's what make this freedom of speech. Dallas and Columbus Ohio were not even identified? to funny.
I just wanted to clarify that temple marriage is not based on polygamy. That is the FLDS church and not the LDS church. Also, I feel that this article wanted to get a rise out of readers and it is no where near the truth. I could come up with any type of criteria to get anything to qualify and call it a legit article. Yes, there are gays and lesbians in SLC, but it is no where near the gayest city in America. And before you bash any religion you should probably do your research first before you talk about things that you know nothing about!
The whole story blows....( Pun Intended )
Is anyone surprised? Look at those Mormon missionary guys. No one can tell me that they don't spend months (and sometimes years) together and there isn't any tripping the light fantastic.
I don't care what someone does in his or her bedroom. You can screw a dog for all I care. Just don't shove it in my face WHAT you choose to nail. It's none of my business if you are gay or into bestiality anymore than your favorite sexual position with your wife/girlfriend if you are straight.
Vote for Romney the first Mormon President.
Jhawke - I agree with you 100%.
How about Romney? That might explain some things.
This is obvliously a publicity stunt mocking Republicans and religion. They even admitted they didn't use any hard facts and statistics to back up their claims.
From someone who has been to both Salt Lake City and San Francisco I have only one thing to say...... PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! San Fran is the home to the most flamboyant homosexuals on the planet! I have a feeling that a large percentage of the gays in SLC are probably fairly conservative and not nearly as high a percentage as in the city by the gay.... errr... I mean bay. It is always amazing when some idiot pulls a study out from their gludious maximus!
Oh hell..."Provincetown Mass" will take them all to the matt! And they left out Key west?
so sad that we need studies to tell us what cities are the most "gay" based on their own set of guidelines. so really this is a wasted amount of time that serves no usefulness whatsoever but to once again push the idea that being "gay"( a stolen term mind ya) is natural and should be treated as such. loving (emotional attachment) the same sex is fine but nothing natural about sexual acts of the same sex. humans are so sexually perverted.
San Fransisco has changed allot over the last decade. Plus with more people actually coming out. They most likely feel a bit more comfortable where they are. I have nothing against Gays or lesbians. Sexual preference is their business. Most gay or lesbian I have met are actually very nice people. Just like any one else.
I happen to think it is cool that people can be open about who they are wherever they are. Being a straight Male. That is not a homophobic male helps though. Good for Salt lake. And our Free society.
Imagine by John Lennon comes to mind. Were all either apart from God or a part of God. No religion needed.
I guess I just don't get it. What are you 'loving'? You think there aren't gay conservatives or something?
Snow in alaska and gay people in large cities.I bet if they look hard enough they may find some straight people.May even have sand on a beach,who knows.
Just wow,who would have thunk it,these are the best news stories you can come up with the assault me with when I try and figure out if anything important is going on......
Also last time i said something along the lines of this being the gayest anything I got scolded for not being sensitive to other peoples life styles.Which suprized the shyte out of me cuz i couldnt care less who your screwing long as their old enough to understand what their doing and are willing.so now is it all right to say this? Can we bring back the sexual and race based derogotory words as well,or is it to early for that?
Or is the gayest gonna turn out to be anouther term some people can use,and others cant? Been waiting on that african american crayon to come out for years now,so i could color in my books without fear of being thought of as politically correct.Hey and when it does,maybe i wont have to read crap like this anymore and try to figure out who decides wtf is important.To bad I dont live in salt lake,I may have had a good ole chuckle over this,then convinced myself i'm not a homophobe afterwards as i packed my stuff to move.........
And really if you made it past all that,sorry if I offended anyone,point is,gimme real news or just dont post any pls ...snow in alaska..........
Jhawke:
Regarding your post at 1.27: Please ban yourself for one week for being entirely too reasonable.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
How much more irrelevant can PMSNBC make itself. Journalism has taken a backseat to ideologic promotion.
Of course, why would anyone accept the findings of the census bureau when you can make up some mythical measures by a magazine that promotes the lifestyle to alter the findings? That's as scientific as the gibberish most illiterates believe about "global climate disruption" (the new super-term that can encompass any small perturbation in climate to promote its fallacy).
No need to read past the second paragraph of this atrocity of reportage, yet over 400 of you find some whimsical need to banter on about it.
No wonder this nation is collapsing. Priorities are obviously no longer a concern.
First the survey is nonsense and is intended to ridicule and spark outrage. Those in the homosexual lifestyle are not engaging in a lifestyle the common sense tells you is wrong. In case you have not noticed male and female are not physically the same. If this lifestyle were normal than it would take less than a generation for the human race or any race of creature to become extinct. Any thinking person would know this. The most irritating thing about the sodomite movement is not their behavior but their want everyone to check their brains at the door and accept it as normal. Any thinking person knows the only way for homosexuals to reproduce is through recruitment.
perhaps... their water source...got contaminated with salt peter...
The article should have been released on April Fools' Day. It is a spoof, as evidenced by this excerpt. It does not claim to be a valid study.
"If we were having a more scientific survey, I don't know that we would choose these as indicators," Valerie Larabee, director of the Utah Pride Center in Salt Lake City, told the Salt Lake Tribune.
But "all humor aside, I think that our city has come a long way," Larabee said, noting that Salt Lake City was the first municipality in the state to pass anti-discrimination ordinances based on a sexual orientation.
I can't believe this made the news and that so many people are commenting on it. MSNBC must be getting pretty desperate.
They could of done a complete study sure would of liked to know how many happy sheep compared to unhappy but then the sun has to shine..
"per capita queerness"
Gotta love that one!
and WeHo not even on the list but Long Beach is!? What the.....gimme a break!
I guess all the sister-wives got tired of waiting for their turn with hubby and looked to each other on their 'off' nights...
Based on how they counted I see their point. In NYC we have kinda main-streamed. Meaning that if we go to a straight bar with friends and we kiss or etc, nobody actually pays attention. We have in many ways achieved freedoms that other areas of the country can only dream about. But that day will come too.
In NYC if you are gay it just is not a big deal at all. We have acceptance and rights. I would assume much of the same is in San Fran, West Hollywood, etc
Oh and to the person who bought up Key West....for the most part we left that to the Cruise Ships and straight tacky tourists years ago. You go to a 'gay bar' in Key West it is just full of straights gawking at tired drag queens. Ho hum.
I know its a small town but Ogunquit (probably spelled it wrong) Maine should be right up there
It's Romney's People, only Romney don't want his people, he only wants his 42 wives(they just seem to want to have babie, though), and of course of those 42 wives, 41 of them will be lesbians, until they get a hold of the 42nd one, and she too, will become lesbian, you gotta love the morons, I mean Mormons.
STRANGE BUT TRUE: Has anyone else noticed the extreme inordinate amount of cities that also host NFL teams on this small list? Could there be a connection or is this just a coincidence? let's explore further. (Washington, Seattle, Kansas City, Denver, Boston, Oakland, Pittsburg, San Francisco, Atlanta, New Orleans etc.)
What exactly does N. F. L. stand for? National Foofoo League, Nation Full of Lesbians, Natural Felatio Lessons???????
Tim Tebow, You just got to be proud.
I think Obama won Mr. leather in 2006.
Since being gay is a naturally occurring orientation, not a lifestyle choice, there is probably not a huge difference in the percentage of gays in any city in America. A gay "list" probably just includes those cities having a society more tolerant of gays, therefore allowing the gays to be more open. :)
Technically speaking, Salt Lake City is not a "town" it is a "city". Unless they have changed, San Francisco is a city. That aside...
Oh C'MON people! When is the word "GAY" going to go the way of all other words that describe "THOSE PEOPLE?" When will "gay" go the way of "queer, fag, fairy," etc? The article could have asked, "What is the queerest city?" If homosexuality is "normal" then why is there a need to label it? When will people who must live with homosexual tendecies be regarded (ignored, part of the median, average) like other people? If the word "gay" is the acceptable word to be used to describe people with homosexual orientation then why do I hear "that is so gay, your gay, what a gay thing to do" which are the uses of the word "gay" in a derogatory fashion? The term "gay community" seperates them from the rest of the community. Can't be part of "normal" if seperations are continually applied. And I know this point of view applies to other "differences" as well. If we are not all "treated fairly" then it will not go away. So, to answer my own question, it will not go away because humans will not, by nature, treat each other fairly...they can't. I guess everyone will just have to get used to it, people are going to be different from one another by varying degrees, whether race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any of the numerous subsets of "being different."
So, what is the most "straight" (not bent, twisted, perverted, etc) cities in America?
Wait until Mormons find out gay people have money. All the sudden, God will change his mind and suddenly become more politically correct.
Marinmom- Please take your hate somewhere else. We get it... you hate all Mormons and all of your comments are colored by that visceral hatred.
As for the comments regarding SanFran v. SLC, if the measure is flamboyant, in-your-face homosexuality, then SanFran wins hands down. However, if you are looking for an openness for those who are gay, then SLC is pretty accepting of those with different beliefs (the Utah delegation was the deciding vote to ratify the 21st Amendment repealing prohibition).
There is no contradiction with the conservative, Mormon culture of SLC and a willingness to let people live their lives. Yes, Mormons think that engaging in homosexual behavior is a sin just like adultery is a sin. However, the 11th Article of Faith allows people freedom of conscience. They also reserve the right to express their opinion and to affirm the sacred nature of marriage.
I KNEW the right-wingers are all closeted gays!!!!
How do you explain the millions and millions they poured into California's state election to promote bigotry and hatred towards gays? There was no willingness to let others live their lives there. It was buying a result they wanted, regardless of what was right, or fair, or what the people of California might have chosen without their interference.
So where are the mormon financed campaigns against adultery? I've never seen one. I've never seen them try to pass laws against adultery or even call religious (let alone political) leaders to task for it. They may think it's a sin...but it's certainly NOT in the same way they think homosexuality is a sin. Not even in the same ball park.
Opinions...fine. Pouring millions of dollars into sabatoging another state's electoral process...not fine. Disgusting, in fact. They did it again in Maine. They need to read that 11th article over to themselves and butt out of other people's beliefs and business. Their interference has earned them the scorn and disrespect they are getting now. They have no one else to blame.
JK, the jury is still very out on that issue. If sexuality is on a continuum, it must sometimes be a choice since those in the middle could go either way, or both. In any case, your choice of where to live isn't entirely random. Gay people are allowed to move, like everybody else. Many do move to greener pastures like SF. Therefore it is quite natural that some places would have a higher percent of gays than others.
What??? No Rehoboth Beach, DE - the home of the bar that hosts the annual "Mr. Gay Competition" and the Friday night "Leather Fetish Night"????
Miittens Gay? I would laugh so hard I'd piss my pants!!
I'm actually happy to see gay news for once. People always say, "do what you do in your bedroom and don't shove it in my face."
Well, I get tired of seeing straight people day after day after day on television make love and kiss and have promiscuous sex. YOUR sexuality is thrown in my face. When do we get a turn?
My gay NFL equation in post 1.50 is still on track. It is coming right down to the four gayest cities once again. NFC: NY against San Francisco and AFC: Boston against Baltimore.
- Stevo, SLC Punk
Please, please, tell me no Osmond brothers were involved in achieving this prestigious award!
Do you not remember the songs? "go away little girl" comes to mind...
and they cant blame it on being drunk.
Robin! Funny!
HAHAHA, I live in Idaho, about 4 hours from SLC, this state and utah are of course smoothered in Mormons, for them to be the Gay capitol of the world is truly funny, I mean to hear them talk you'd think only the chosen live in UTAH, guess God chose the ones he wanted.
LMFAO!!! Couldn't agree more, sfilutze. I used to live in Pokafellow and my wife couldn't even get a job because we weren't Mormon. Almost got fired from my job at the Idaho State Urinal for publishing a story debunking the Mormon Church. This just cracks me up.
Agreed. This should make good fodder for some trash talking next time we (BSU) play BYU or Utah too.
Ha Ha! Darrel B. lived in "Poke a Fellow"!
There couldn't be a political motive behind this "survey" now could there?? Purely scientific I am sure. Just glad Phoenix isn't mentioned.
Well, usually the people that live in regimented control are the ones that are the craziest, just ask those Catholic school girls when they hit college!
Pokafellow is a joke he is referring to Pocatello ID, der!
D.man, some of the meanest people I know are recovering catholics. They definitely go nuts when they get to the real world.
I'm from Southern California, but have lived in Utah for the past 13 years, (sfilutze) WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! I haven't met a single person in this state who believes that only the "chosen" live in Utah. That is just ridiculous. I do feel fortunate to live in a state that has its priorities in order (schools have $$, very low crime), but to suggest that there is some silly mentality that Utah is somehow an elect state over any other is just comical. Even more comical is the fact that people like you actually convince themselves of such nonsense...
And Darrel B., hate to break it to ya, but I can assure you that her faith had nothing to do with why she didn't get the job; further, anybody who publishes anything using the word "debunk" should be fired. Have a nice day...
There couldn't be a political motive behind this "survey" now could there?? Purely scientific I am sure. Just glad Phoenix isn't mentioned.
Are you homophobic?
John Baynor what exactly is your definition of homophobic?? I think it's the silliest word that has ever been invented. Just curious...when someone does something that you don't agree with are you "phobic" of them or do you just not like what they do?
The real "homophobe" in the national spot light is Catholic. The mormons don't really have much to say in public about it, since the later day saints got together and had their "vision" about being open to homosexuality.
the fab five, the reason this country is going down in flames ,esp california, is because we tolerate anything , and we pander to any cause or anyone that is out of the norm, the more perverse the more it seems to get approval thats why this country is in such a decline. Hang around it is only going to get worse , you can bet your live on it.
How do you get 4 gays on a bar stool?.................Turn it over :^)
sin is everywhere, not just in Utah!
The most overheard line at a gay bar during closing time?........" Is it ok if I push in your stool?"
Boy you guys really are stereotypical, aren't you. There are plenty of 'conservative' and even 'religious' gays. The fact that you 'think' that all gays are liberal athiests is actually quite insulting.
Considering the mainstream Mormon church in this very city poured all the money into inventing and passing Prop 8 in California (more than $40 million to be precise), I find this whole "gay mecca" news a bit odd.
Anyone else see the documentary The Mormon Proposition?
Sappy and full of completely comically outrageous lies though it was, one thing they DID get right was that the Mormon church created and then passed Prop 8 with their commercial ads.
Interesting book to read: It's called After the Ball: How America Will Overcome It's Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s.
To this day I still learn a lot from this book: how to wage a propoganda war and sit back in awe at it's effectiveness. Read the book and then watch "The Mormon Proposition". Your tears will turn into laughter I promise you.
the fab five, "homophobic" actually is described as a FEAR of homosexuality, and somehow the queers think we are all afraid. We're just disgusted that they have made such an issue of this, when there are actually important things to discuss. The word was probably put into the dictionary by a queer, just to make the majority of Americans look bad. Sorry, but we still believe what we want, no matter what fancy, derogatory words you devise. The word, "gay" used to refer to being happy - I only see homosexuals fighting everyone who doesn't agree with their sick lifestyle. That's not happy, that's sad.
I am disgusted that Knoxville, tn is #8 and S.F., Ca. Is #18. How did Tenn. get so queer?
Easy for knoxville. Remember, Inbreeding between brothers is still considered GAY.
Hey this Idaho Independent lives in Pocatello Idaho!!......but nonetheless, when my full bloodied italian uncles came out from Chicago...they refered to it as Poke-A-Fellow.....funny, sometimes people are to darn serious. But Pocatello is a great town, with Idaho State University here and even a Gay Bar called " Charelys"....but I to agree when you try to "debunk" something like this article does it leads to poor journalism at best.....and propaganda at worst. But come on over to Poke-A-Fellow and enojy all the wonders of South Eastern Idaho...its beautiful here!!
When gay issues take over the news I know we are screwed. Not against gays but this country has more important stuff to deal with. Getting medical help for Ron Paul comes to mind (humor people).
Human rights are always topical.
You clearly are against gays, just by your comment.
or treating the Obama's for the horrendous disease... Socialism.
Holy cow. Health benefits from spouse's jobs and "right" to marry (government-sanctioned acceptance of a lifestyle choice) ARE NOT HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES.
Yeah cuz Socialism is such a bad word. How's that Capatalism working out for you?
Yep, and gays are human so they already have all the appropriate rights as any other human. If they had any more then they would be getting special treatment based solely on the lifestyle choices they have made, which would be discriminating against the heterosexuals.
It's funny how they want to change the definition of marriage to be 2 males or 2 females and act like that is perfectly acceptable but yet they are outraged if people suggest 3 males or 3 females or some other combination other than what the homosexuals actually want. They demand to have specific treatment, and anything other than what they demand is unacceptable, maybe even an abomination. Who would have thought that some homosexuals don't believe that 3 people should be married to each other but are okay with 2 males? This shows that they want special treatment, and changing the definition of marriage to suit some of their needs is just the beginning. I guess the bisexuals who want to marry one person of each sex have no one fighting for their chosen lifestyle. You homosexuals are just bigots in that regard.
Same argument made for miscegenation laws. They failed then too.
stop 4.3 wrote;
"Holy cow. Health benefits from spouse's jobs and "right" to marry (government-sanctioned acceptance of a lifestyle choice) ARE NOT HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES."
If you wanted to stop the BS you wouldn't have posted. A person being heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual isn't a choice-lifestyle or otherwise. Neither is; skin color, choice of parents, or a 'laundry list' of other facets.
I dont think anybody would CHOOSE to put up with as much crap as gays gets.
Brandon give me a break. The government is not allowed to isssue you a fishing license; and not issue the same license to someone else based on the color of their skin or their sexual orientation. Unfortunately the government chose to regulate marriage licenses (not the church as we tend to get muddled and confused about sometimes through mindless rambling) - therefore we all have the right to have access to a marriage license. This type of discrimination is what the Consitution is meant to protect.
Brandon "Yep, and gays are human so they already have all the appropriate rights as any other human. If they had any more then they would be getting special treatment based solely on the lifestyle choices they have made, which would be discriminating against the heterosexuals."
So, brandon, as a heterosexual male...just curious...would you want to marry a lesbian? Do you know any heterosexual men who would want to? Did you even think that one through?
DAMN IT NOW IM PISSED, HOW COME WHITE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MARRY BLACK PEOPLE GOT SPECIAL RIGHTS I CANT GET!!!!!!! you know, white people and black people...didnt use to have the right to marry. YOu know that right?
I hereby demand we revoke those specials rights! NOW DAMN IT NOW!
"It's funny how they want to change the definition of marriage to be 2 males or 2 females and act like that is perfectly acceptable but yet they are outraged if people suggest 3 males or 3 females or some other combination other than what the homosexuals actually want."
???? I dont care if 3 men want to marry each other, or 1 guy and 2 chicks...I honestly dont.
Thats still YOUR SIDE getting their undies in a tizzy. The definition of marriage has always been evolving.
I dont see you with a concubine...do I?
oh let me guess...you dont even know your own bible accurately do you? *face palm
EPIC FAIL.
"They demand to have specific treatment, and anything other than what they demand is unacceptable, maybe even an abomination. Who would have thought that some homosexuals don't believe that 3 people should be married to each other but are okay with 2 males?"
who would have thought that some christians would be ok with adultry but not homosexuality...oh the comedy of hypocrisy (gays dont own it you fool).
"This shows that they want special treatment, and changing the definition of marriage to suit some of their needs is just the beginning. I guess the bisexuals who want to marry one person of each sex have no one fighting for their chosen lifestyle. You homosexuals are just bigots in that regard."
enough with the special treatment angle (and please, come up with your own creative thoughts on the subject next time)...at this point, we can only conclude YOU are the only one throwing a giant hissy fit about who's special treatment is being trampled on...oh you poor persecuted christians!
but i gotta ask...why do you spend so much time thinking about gay people?
If i wasnt gay, and saw this article...I dont know what reason i'd have to want to read it.
Surely you got better things to do with your time than rant and rave about those gays wanting special treatment right? are you one of those closet cases, who rails on about evil gays...all while dreaming about the gay things you'd do those gay boys?
gotta wonder.
Ha great post Jessica! Yeah 'Brandon's' are a dime a dozen and usually the ones trolling through gay porn at 2am.
Oh...then you won't mind if we take away your right to marry and all the attendant benefits. Just because we don't like you very much. (actually meeting you or knowing you isn't required to make that assessment) The rest of us will continue to enjoy those rights and benefits while talking about you as if you were a plague on the country.
First, ROUND OF APPLAUSE for you Jessica from Texas. Well Said.
Brandon simply one question... Are you so afraid that a gay man is going to treat you, the way you treat women?
It's working out great! I got rich at your expense.
lol...
I think Brandon knows way too much about what gays want.
I wonder if the Gay and Lesbian societies are still 'boycotting' Salt Lake City. Now that one is the real funny story.
Brandon I am for any of the marriages that you stated as are all gay people I know.
Brandon, this may come as a surprise to you, but gay people have parents, and parents have been known to be ferocious about protecting their young.
In fact, I am one of those parents. The majority of us love our children, judge their worth on their behavior as human beings, and don't take kindly at all to cowardly little bullies who can't handle anyone who doesn't reflect their own small-minded attitudes and values, or lack thereof.
So relax. With your personality, no gay person, male or female, is one bit interested in hanging around with you.
Applause from Texas Melissa.
Both Brandon and Jessica agree on something, that more than 2 people should be able to be married to each other.
And it's ironic that it's on a thread concerning Utah, as more than 2 people married to each other is called pologamy...
A lot of heterophobes on here.
Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you "phobic". Thinking that the people you disagree with should be treated as less worthy in our laws...makes you a bigot...and would fit the definition of "phobe".
Small children would say "I know you are, but what am I" when confronted with an insult...but it doesn't really work for them either.
"Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you "phobic"."
thats funny,...anytime a heterosexual disagrees with a gay person they are almost universally called homophobic,...but if a gay person disagrees with a heterosexual, its justified and not in the least bit bigoted....lol....what a load of crap....make me wonder if my fellow gays have a brain....and as for this idiotic story all about nothing?....typical MSNBC bull....there aparently isnt enough poverty and death in the world for the MSNBC publishers to bother with.
Yeah, they're all sucking my dick in gratitude.
lol...
I can name at least six girls I went to high school with that should have been born boys. They were all nice girls and it was no fault of their own. I have a hard time believing that those girls deserve hatred and discrimination just because they were made that way. Men would find them unattractive, especially Kathy D. who was built like a linebacker. What are these girls supposed to do? Spend the rest of their lives celibate and without love and human contact?
Only if their "disagreement" involves the straight person honestly believing they have the right to dictate the rights and behavior of the gay person...just because of their relative orientations.
Gay people aren't trying to take your rights away. A disagreement is just a disagreement...with no legal, life-changing ramifications. If you honestly can't see the difference....
Since it's impossible to believe that a gay person who has been subjected to inequality wouldn't understand the difference between a difference of opinion and different laws...you are only making it obvious that you are a (not terribly clever) bigot in gay clothing.
Ah yes...the obligatory "who wrote this story anyway and isn't MSNBC just awful". Have to have a few of those comments every time....by people who come to MSNBC, read the stories (well the headlines, anyway) and then try to crap all over them and anyone who might find them interesting, entertaining or informative. And they never even sense the irony of their own presence and participation.
Does fox restrict itself to only reporting on poverty and death? I don't watch it, but I'm pretty sure all they do is make up lies, convince conservatives to oppose their own best interests and bash democrats....accomplishing what no other network has even attempted: making their viewers less informed than people who watch no news at all. You strike me as a fox fan.
This is great ---- Shove it conservatives,,, The Left Coast is on the bottom of the list & the Bible Belt is on the top!
Must be something wrong with the conservative message don't you think?
No. This survey looks a little "queer" to me. They made sure it skewed that way. The homosexual political agenda trumps all truth. You should know that.
I think you can credit the 3.2% stuff they call beer in Beehive State. Polygamy Porter advertises "when one is not enough" and "take some home for the wives".
Maybe the Morman Tabernacle Choir will start performing Broadway Musicals.
Jim, please don't paint all conservatives with the same brush. Not all conservatives are SOCIAL conservatives. In fact I would say anyone who claims to be conservative but thinks the government has any right whatsoever to mandate or legislate morality or human behavior is a hypocrite. I guess this makes me a libertarian in that I'm fiscally conservative but socially liberal (i.e. the government should keep its nose the hell out of our private lives).
Jason, welcome to libertarianism. Our motto is "if we can get along, at least get apart." ;)
"Shove it" ? last time i heard that was back in the 70's...Now we say "stick it up your arse"...but the homosexuals in Salt Lake City might enjoy that.
If I had 15 wives, I'd jump ship too!
As an Oregonian am suprised that Salem comes in before Eugene. Should be Eugene then portland, Salem is the capitol but never noticed being an Oregon hot spot much less a national one. Don't have all that much gay activities of note that I can think of. I'm sure Oregons gays wil be happy to be on the list though. Very surprised that San Fransisco is so far down on the list. The whole list is surprising!!
"Gayest City" the ACLU will be after you.
Salt Lake City is a tiny blue spot in a big red state. SLC is way less conservative than you might think, however Provo or Ogden and St George are very conservative. Its like a fishbowl in your living room.
Ummm.....fish are gay?
Didn't get that memo.
...
Do you like fish sticks?
(Props to anyone who gets the reference)
Ruken: Nice comment :-)
South Park with Kanya West. :)
One Fish, Two Fish, Gay Fish, Blue Fish...
Me like Gays I wish there were more Gay men that way there will be more pussy for me.
Texas is gayer than California & Utah is gayer than both.... Who'd have figured?
I just had a boot camp flashback about steers and queers. ;)
HA HA HA! Has anyone even asked the question how they come up with these numbers? Please, like anyone knows how many "gay" people live in a state. How easily the media can manipulate the public....very sad!
Actually they mentioned how they ranked the cities, and admitte that it probably wasn't very scientific.
I just honestly don't think everyone in California and New York has raised their hands to be counted. That's all. I live in New York and it's a gay mecca and I traveled to San Francisco once and was stunned at the numbers of gay people. This list is kinda off base.
Stuey,,, A little word of advice, stay out of the gay bars ---- On the street they look & act like everyone else & just as strange
Jim - I'm just one of MANY who haven't raised their hands in this so-called count-off. If everyone here raised their hands we'd probably be number 1. And you're right about one thing, many of us you couldn't tell just by looking, you'd never know it. But who is really counting or really even cares?
OK please read the article. The "survey" was not a hand count. In fact they admitted if it was a hand count, New York and San Fran would probably be 1 and 2.
The Mormons will LOVE this !!
They are the Mormons ......
I wonder what that will do to their "Strength in Multiple Wives"?
Jim, I am not sure considering Polygamy is illegal and was banned by the LDS church over 100 years ago. Good post though.
..........maybe they're ONTO something................
I was only outlawed to satisfy statehood requirements. Btw, has anybody told Mitt that "first lady" implies "only lady?"
Peanut Gallery Theater:
You are obviously a moron. Mitt Romney has only one wife and has only had one wife. Perhaps someone should be mentioning this to other members of the political field, like those who have been divorced multiple times, who have mistresses, ect.
peanutgallery-isn't Mitt from Massachusetts?
Yes, Stuey: people can tell if someone is gay or not. Have you ever noticed that when gays come out of the closet that their whole countenance changes, in other words the women are more manly, and the men are more feminine.
WHO CARES... It's people like this that's destroying this country.
Who gays? ---- They have a huge conservative caucus on the Hill ---- Log Cabin Republicans
People like this? It's people "like you" who constantly talk about groups of people as if they are cattle. That's what's destroying this country.
lol, "destroying this country"? I'm more worried about ignorant hatred. personally I think this country is great, I'm sorry you hate america. :)
Hey Mitt Romney. Anything you have forgotten to tell us? Any skeletons in your closet that you need to come out of now? Come one, it's ok, no more toe tapping in airport potties.
sicofdems - is it now our turn to tell you if you hate america, get the bleep out?
isnt that what makes you a real american, when you tell other americans who disagree with your point of view to either leave the country or shut the f up?
I wasnt sure if it was our turn or not yet.
Jessica..AWESOME COMMENT !!!!!!
GAY Mormons, Who would have though.
And, you people believe this news article.... what a bunch of bufoons!!
Better then being a "Red Faced Baboon @$$" like you!
The ranking of SLC and others isn't particularlly surprising if you consider the criterea. LGBT people tend to have more formal associative groups per capita in places where their lifestyle is in the minority and the number of those groups was the criterea. A LGBT person in San Francisco would feel less of a need to have a formal group associations then someone in SLC since they probably have friends, coworkers, and neighbors who are more inclusive of their lifestyle. For example, you don't need a specifically gay softball team if EVERY team has a couple of gay members on it and nobody really cares.
I am Mormon and am glad the our state can be recognized in this way. I would never protest or make a person feel unwelcome simply to due race or sexual orientation. Sorry if that statement from an active member of the LDS church ruins some of your mormon bashing.
Your two Mormon candidates pretty much ruin that with their stance against gays
Don't you think it's the moral duty of the LDS church to do something about it to stop them?
No, I don't believe the church, any church, should interfere in a political race.
Until they do clean up their own people who shout religion & run on it,,, I will have no faith in any religion
Religion is unworthy if they cannot stand up & eliminate politicians who go against the faith... Same is said for others from other faiths
AW13,,, Let me give you the best example in the world here today ---- Conservative Christians which include your LDS candidates are going directly against the "Sermon on the Mound"
I've got nothing against Huntsman either except his own conservativism also seems to oppose his faith..... He would have made one of our nation's greatest ambassadors to China, but not a President who supposed to expound on the virtues of the LDS church or equality & acceptance
Sermon on the Mound?????
LoL. I gave a sermon on the mound last night. I was speaking in tongues...
I got that one, Fils. Pretty funny.
What is it that makes the people of Salt Lake City so happy? Is it the Great Salt Lake perhaps?
the salt licks
The "salty Clam Lickers"!
@Jessica-1170252 Christians the most prosecuted what ? it hasn't been that way since Roman times they are a majority here in the U.S. non believers or atheist are, believe what you want but there is no nonbeliever rec centers or even an agenda, we don't protest out by your church or even knock on your door & yes we do have famous people who are Atheist's but they don't go around bashing Christians
Wow you dont get on these posts much do you. Do you ever read some of the comments from Atheists on here, it is sickening. I hardly ever see anything hateful from Christians on here about gays, just giving an opinion about something does not make you a hater either. We feel the homosexual lifestyle is wrong and we are going to give an opinion about it, sorry if that offends you!
suseq If I were to tell you that your christian faith is wrong and you are morally corrupt for it. would that offend you?
No, because the bible says blessed are you when they persecute you and say all manner of evil against you for my name sake. I see so many Christians give an opinion about homosexuallity and hardly ever read anything hateful from them.
More "jamming" which is part of an elaborate program to further the gay agenda.
You are very paranoid.
tin foil is on sale today at walmart, aisle 5.
Desensitization — Through constant exposure to homosexuals on television, in the movies, on radio, and in the newspapers, the public would become accustomed to gays being a normal part of their life. The image conveyed would be that gays are ordinary people like everyone else. As the gays came out of the closet to show a public face, the startling aspects of gay perversion and pathology would be left in the closet — concealed from the public eye. The goal of desensitization is public indifference.
Jamming — The object of jamming is to shame gay opponents into silence. The shame comes from the accusation of bigotry and social stigmatization.
"All normal people feel shame when they perceive that they are not thinking, feeling, or acting like the pack...The trick is to get the bigot into the position of feeling a conflicted twinge of shame....when his homohatred surfaces. Thus,propagandistic advertisement can depict homophobic and homohating bigots as crude loudmouths...It can show them being criticized, hated, shunned. It can depict gays experiencing horrific suffering as the direct result of homohatred-suffering of which even most bigots would be ashamed to be the cause.
The vast majority of people on TV are straight. In fact, per character, the percentage of gay people on TV is lower than in society.
Secondly, gay people are a normal part of human society. Always have been, always will be.
You are entirely entitled to your opinion. Nobody is trying to silence you, just disagree with you. And as for bigotry, if the shoe fits...
This tactic is very effective in a politically correct group-think environment — such as college campuses and news rooms. Politicians as a class, are extremely sensitive to the threat of being publicly stigmatized. Remember the idea that "...people feel shame when they perceive that they are not thinking, feeling, or acting like the pack." These may be primitive wolf-pack group-think tactics but they are powerful none the less. A study of the life cycle of a business found that the terminal stage of decline was when group-think prevailed. At this point the in-group became an end in itself and the customer became an inconvenient nuisance. James F. Welles, Phd., wrote The Story of Stupidity, which examined historical eras in which many people were seized by a self-destructive collective stupidity. In each case, group-think prevailed and rationality ans independent thought was driven out. "Political correctness" is a form of contemporary group-think which drives out common sense. This poisoned environment created the opportunity for the abusive nonsense of gay "jamming" to flourish. However toxic and destructive wolf-pack group-think is, it is a powerful temptation which man, a social animal, is prone to, and which dictators make use of.
Just watch MTV, Bravo or the Style network and you can see how easily you can push and "normalize" gay lifestyles and pro-gay social agenda.
Raymond, you are still paranoid. There is no unified PR campaign going on here. Some groups and individuals are likely to want to portray people in a positive light, but this is in no way brainwashing anyone.
The fact is, the arguments for equality are founded in logic and moral principles. "Pack thinking" like you will find in a church, is far more likely to be used against gay people then for them.
Further, equating in-group culture of a business to civil rights issues is just plain absurd.
How does being courteous to other people equal the loss of common sense? This is disjointed logic at best.
Raymond, you're paranoid. It's obvious. Deal with it.
The gays have indeed been given massive public exposure by liberals on TV, the movies, and the print media. This aggressive use of the media has been a priority of the agenda of gay leaders at least since 1971.
One aspect of the shaming technique is to portray how much pain the gay suffers as a result of the intolerance of the bigot. The movie Philadelphia,starring Tom Hanks, is a media tour de force in getting wide audiences to sympathize with the sufferings of a gay man and to be disgusted with the persecutions of his bigoted tormentors. Everyone who places a high value on compassion is bound to be swayed by the movie. It is one of the greatest masterpieces of propaganda ever put on screen. The not so subtle message is — "Shame on you bigots for not giving your approval to the cute and sensitive Tom Hanks — who just happens to be gay." With one stroke, the bigots are jammed and shamed and the gay wins sympathy. Brilliant propaganda — that. The Chinese would be proud.
So illustrating the suffering of a group is wrong how exactly? Maybe Schindler's list was also "brilliant propaganda." Sorry, this is plain stupid.
Define massive. On the show "Glee" the gayest show around (in my opinion) there is 1 gay major character. There are 17 "main" characters total. Thus, the gay-percentage of the characters is 5.9%, which is in line with or less than the general population. And most shows don't have any gay characters.
Hey StopTheBull@!$%#: Those shows don't even represent the average homo just as the Kardashians don't represent your average family. MTV, Bravo et al aim their cameras at the 3-ring circuses for ratings just like any other trainwreck of a reality show straight or gay. If their cameras were aimed at normal everyday average joe gays you'd be bored to tears. What agenda is Ice Loves Coco trying to push? RATINGS! Moron.
Often time, those who protest the loudest against said issue are personally dealing with said issue themselves.
Sounds like Rammond has some gay "issues" to exercise behind closed doors himself. Or already has and is feeling guilty about it....
"The gays" lol! Sounds like "The blacks", "The Jews", "The insert word for minority deamed 2nd class citizen here"!!!
Conversion
Conversion of the public to be receptive to the gay agenda. Conversion requires a change of heart. The change of heart will occur "...if we can actually make them like us, "Conversion aims at just this...conversion of the average American's emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the media." When the audience begins to sympathize with Tom Hanks inPhiladelphia, the process of conversion has begun.
On television, gay comedienne Ellen de Generous once used abrasiveness in comedy. Since her public disclosure that she is a lesbian, she has emphasized personal likability. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy emphasizes a goofy cuteness and sweetness. Public likability has eluded the hard-boiled Ellen but the "fab five" of Queer Eye have been fantastically successful in winning the sentimental favor of the public. No line is too sappy and no situation too mushy for the fab five. Don't you just want to hug them? Folks, this is conversion. Serious conversion. Never underestimate the gushy sentimentality of the American public. The cuteness of Topsy in Uncle Tom's Cabin did more to turn public sentiment away from slavery than all the abolitionists combined.
The Big Lie
The big lie technique has been used by almost all totalitarians. As explained by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda chief, "Tell a lie, make it a big one, repeat it often enough, and a lot of people will believe it." The Chinese propaganda techniques used for the gay agenda are more sophisticated than the bombastic Nazi methods. But as true totalitarians seeking mind control, the people behind the gay agenda is promoting three big lies: 1. Homosexuality is genetically determined, 2. Change is not possible, and 3. Gay rights are part of the civil rights agenda. Homosexuality is placed on a par with race and gender. According to the gay agenda, these truths are obvious. No debate is needed. Opposition to these points signifies bigotry.
THE BIG REALITY
The only way I'd care if some guy was gay is if I were gay and looking for a "date." I'm not gay therefore there's no scenario were I'd care who is. Now, I would like to know who's lesbian so I dont waste time hitting on them. :)
Discrimination against gays is a civil rights issue
Gay sexual activities is a behavior. Race and gender are permanent innate characteristics which are fixed at birth. No moral judgement can be made of race and gender because no one chooses their race or gender.
In contrast, a homosexual orientation seems to emerge in developmental stages. Individual choices and social environment profoundly influences the trajectory of development. Sexual perversions must be learned through experimentation and instruction. Such practices are subject to moral judgements.
Charles W. Socarides, M.D., President of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and a clinical professor of psychiatry at Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
Gays can't change
Dr. Socarides says that one third of his former gay patients are now married and most have children. This corresponds with the success rate of the Betty Ford clinic. Another third of Socarides patients remain homosexual but are not part of the gay scene. They report more control over their impulses and a more responsible approach to sex. The point is that two thirds of his patients made positive changes to some extent. This excludes the blanket assertion that gays can't change.
Raymond - you realize that prior to gays being "acceptable" on tv, the only way to show a gay person in a movie, or book, or on tv - was to show them living the most miserable life possible, that always ends in death - whether suicide or murder.
The reality is, that wasnt realistic.
Yet I dont hear you complaining about THAT kind of propoganda...nope.
Christians - always the most persecuted since Jesus Christ.
Seriously raymond...explain to me whats wrong with showing gays as they are, just like everyone else?
I get it, YOU dont think they are like everyone else...
but I bet every straight person on these boards, who has a gay sister or brother...uncle or aunt, friend or cousin...will flat out tell you, gays ARE just like everyone else.
Some are screwed up, some are really awesome...and some are just average.
Raymond, congrats...you're as screwed up in the head as some gays..HOORAY FOR YOU!
I bet you were upset that black people were emancipated too....
Oh, you are a special one.
1) Actually, supporters of equal rights beleive sexual orientation is biologically determine for most people. This includes genetic influences, unteruterian factors, and early childhood developmental factors. These are not lies, but well researched factors by reputable independent universities.
2) Change is generally a massive failure when it comes to sexual orientation. The vast majority of "converted" gay people either revert, or live a life of celibacy. For most people it is not an option. I for one will never be attracted to another man... I cannot expect a gay person to be attracted to the opposite gender.
3) Gay rights are civil rights. Gayness is at least as important as religion (also not gender or race), and should be protected as such. Gay people, as a group, have suffered categorical prejudice due to their very identity. These are the hallmarks of civil rights issues.
Lastly, opposition to these points makes you uneducated or stupid... treating people differently due to their sexual orientation makes one a bigot.
Dr. Socarides, funny. He is what you would consider a less than reliable source.
Actual conversion rate success levels are more on the order of 3%.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1jYuientrGoC&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=Shidlo+and+Schroeder+gay+sample&source=bl&ots=eItHDTKVEw&sig=U1S7jLKQL-WxXLW2w6gZlwsJb5g&hl=en&ei=L-nSTeuSAsbz0gGJldWBDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Shidlo%20and%20Schroeder%20gay%20sample&f=false
Raymond-1126037 Said: In contrast, a homosexual orientation seems to emerge in developmental stages. Individual choices and social environment profoundly influences the trajectory of development. Sexual perversions must be learned through experimentation and instruction. Such practices are subject to moral judgements
So... when a heterosexual individual practices deviant behavior (and I won't list them all here because I am sure you are aware of them), they learn it through experimentation and instruction. Are these practices moral and acceptable because it's heterosexual only?
Allow me to share this one and only thought w/you... If you are gay/lesbian the only difference is you have a mutual attraction to the person of the same sex. EVERYTHING ELSE that a heterosexual couple may experience (or want to experience) is the same. Its not immoral, it's not wrong, it is acceptance.
Dude, EngEsq, you're one of my favorite posters here. I posted a few times but don't really have the time to fight on-line bigotry full time. I'm a straight, married male. My hot wife has a gay brother and a gay sister. Her sister just recently got married to her girlfriend. So far I am yet to see any ill effects on my marriage from that ceremony. I don't think I'll be leaving my wife for my beer swilling, hairy golf buddy Tom anytime soon. Why does this threaten some of these people so much?
@ItsAboutTime, I agree with everything in your post, but question the use of "devient". I hope you just mean deviating from boring. 'Cause I don't want be labeled a deviant and I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't either. Even tho she is..
Hey romanm, I too am straight and have family (not by blood, but the bonds are just as strong) who are gay. I am happily married, and have never felt my marriage threatened. I see bigotry not only as offensive, but potentially dangerous, and I also enjoy a good argument.
Best of luck to your sister in law. Marriage is tough and you have to work at it to make sur it stays strong, regardless of the partners gender.
I love a good argument as well. My wife is a liberal Democrat, I'm more of a social Libertarian and a fiscal conservative. So no shortage of good arguments in this house. I would vote for Huntsman, BTW. The problem with this particular argument is that all the other side brings to the table are qoutes from a really old book and blind faith. Tough to have a rational debate against that.
Romanm - To each their own as far as I am concerned :).
;)
It seems to me that a church or any organized religion stands to profit from the procreation of its flock. I wonder why churches adopted that phrase in describing parishoners? Maybe it's because there's a profit to be made off every new birth. Homosexuality is bad for business when you're a church counting on a 10% tithe from each and every person within that community, isn't it?
SLC has (or had) one of the most infamous gay bars in the country called The Sun which was only a few blocks from the LDS Temple. Famous gay men from all over the U.S. used to party at The Sun.
now this is some good stuff
Sicofdems you are free to move about the country... please let the door hit you in your ass as you leave!
Sicodems? ---- Seems like the demographics show you that conservative states are the problem
Is this news, or is it an attempt to aggravate the religious zealots residing in said states?
per capita queerness.
that's great... but i seriously doubt this has very much on midtown Atlanta
I wouldn't mind watching the (R-Utah) Jon Huntsman daughters do a little show ...
LOL.
i'd pay for that one... and a lot more to be a part of it.
A "Donnie & Marie Osmond" show?
more like a Mary Anne and Abbey show.
Would you be so cool with it if it was your daughters?
The Advocate has gone off it effing rocker. Either that, or been bribed. I'm canceling my subscription, since it no longer represents the gay community.
They forgot Sodom and Gomorrah.
These cities, if they ever actually existed, would have had a population of about 10,000 people. I doubt this survey considered anything with a population below 150,000.
You know the population of Sodom and Gomarrah? Please tell me where you got that specific information.
The hygiene and technology of the time period limited city size. The largest bronze age city was Uruk topping out at 60-80,000 people from archaeological evidence. The next largest cities included Thebes and Ur.
What some current archaeologists are calling the potential location of Gomorrah spread across 100 acres, which would have had a population size of 10,000.
Regardless, the "great" cities of the past would be considered mere towns by today's standards.
I know you're joking but I've gotta chime in anyway. This was the gayest cities in the US. Soddom & Gomorrah aren't in the US.