I just gonna sit here with my coffee and wait for the *anti-bow* fanatics to show up (sarc)

Crossbows don't kill people with crossbows kill.

OverPaid...let's face it, there are fanatics/extremists on both sides of aisle where one believes owning an arsenal is acceptable while the other finds owning any type of weapon unacceptable---depends on each individual's personal experiences, upbringing, living situation, etc. as to why they take a certain position.

At least the majority would probably admit this is a "weird one". Since it's such a small town that doesn't experience murder often, they will most likely need to seek assistance from those who have a higher level of experience dealing with murders and suicides to provide them with a better perspective.

There was a weird death of a 10 year old that confounded Dr. G (that Coroner show) who conducted the autopsy. After speaking with a colleague (Coroner) she was finally able to conclude he died of the "choking game", a death she had never been exposed to before. Sometimes weird deaths can make perfect sense when information is obtained by others.

If you're going to off yourself, might as well make it classy, or at least confusing as all hell

I knew a guy in Michigan who once shot an arrow straight up in the air, and then lost sight of it while it was in flight. And wouldn't you know it, but that arrow hit him dead-center in the forehead when it came back down too!!! Maybe this wasn't suicide, maybe it was just an accident???

I've got to see the rational about how this could be labeled a suicide. I wouldn't say it is impossible but unless he jumped up and holding the arrow to his body fell on it so that it would penetrate far enough into his body to kill himself it is an improbable way to kill one's self. Even so he would not have died immediately but took a considerable time, in great pain, to die. If this was a self inflicted wound designed to commit suicide, this person did the right thing he was totally inept at coping with life. I can see it being one of those unbelievable freak accidents, but I simply cannot buy suicide. Having said that I await futher details.

Unless he knew where to have the arrow strike (you know, to make it a QUICK death instead of a very LONG and PAINFUL one....) I dont see anyone thinking that a crossbow to the side would be a quick end!

The brain takes several minutes to die. It's all painful. Arrows don't have hydrostatic shock to turn the brain to jelly like a big fast bullet does, and that's only sometimes..... check the AZ Senator who was grazed head shot (sad) and lives. Nobody has ever come back and discussed the pain they died with. Remember guillotines, where they watched the facial expressions as they showed the severed head its body? Missed that one in school, huh?

Excellent point, although it would be hard to know how you could think it's not loaded.

I'd believe accident before I'd believe suicide.

17,000 gun-enabled suicides a year is not really all that funny.

17,000 gun-enabled suicides a year is not really all that funny

And if those 17,000 were hangings, ODs, slashed wrists, and jumpers, how would that make a difference?

To Colt, Smith & Wesson, Browning, etc etc etc it would make a difference.

17,000 firearms related suicides? How about the 200,000 vehicular related suicides, or or or

We need to ban motor vehicles to keep people safe, and don't forget to ban all sharp objects, everywhere

200,000 people commit suicide in vehicles each year?

Suicides are one thing. There are at least an equal number of murders with guns each year. Ban automatic weapons and handguns.

This was a crossbow, how about you anti-gun bafoons stop looking at someone's death as a platform to spew forth your opinions. Just remember, when things go south those that are armed are not going to protect those that fought to have those firearms taken away. So how do you suppose you will be defending yourself? Crying? Hiding? Shaking your fist at them and saying "you cant shoot me, you are not SUPPOSED to even have that gun"? good luck and go ahead and try that out.

Ban birth and then you can prevent all forms of death. Nobody gets out alive, never have, never will. Death is as inevitable as life. I have a two year old grandson who seems determined to kill himself. I've had to assign two people, his mother and his father to be on constant alert to prevent him from doing it. To give them incentive to preventing that I threatened to make sure they follow him in case he does. Man has been inventing new forms of death ever since he discovered rocks could be used to crush someone's skull. I can think of only one reason this man could have contrived to kill himself with a bow and arrow. It would have to be ruled an accident and his beneficiary could collect double endemnity under his insurance policy. Plus it is difficult to get a gun in under seven days and in such so short a time between purchase and the event it would look like suicide in any case and unless the policy was more than two years old no insurance would have to be paid. I want to know if he has some kind of life threatenng illness and how much insurance he had before I will even consider suicide.

How about the 300,000 people that are killed by medical doctors every year by MIS-medical treatment. I know 4 personally who have died. The last they tried to blame on pneumonia and he was full of gangrene.

Tenaka 2.8....... Have you ever known anyone killed by an automatic weapon? No you haven't. NO you don't even know anybody who knows somebody who was killed by an automatic weapon. YOu watch too damn many movies. You are the typical anti-gunner who would make the USA into another UK or Ughana. When 40 social misfits come to rob, pillage, and rape your women, get your butter knife ready, killer. You're gonna be dead and their gonna explain real pain to the girls.

One would think the have safeties on those things? Most likely another person that doesn't know how to operate the weapon they own. How many people have been shot by their dog in the last 3 months? MSNBC has had at least two stories about that.

Well I had a friend who committed suicide with a standard field shotgun. Why not this? There is no sense in the police ruling out anything at this point. That will come later.

Beat me to it. :p

Arrow to the knee is one of the worst memes ever. Even Millhouse is better.

But Milhouse is not a meme.

Yeah, thanks...now I have that song stuck in my head :)

What's his name-that 70s comedian--Steve Martin with the arrow cross wise in his head? He got it wrong, if it split the 2 hemispheres, the arrowee could've survived without real impediment until infection took the life.

"arrowee" hahaha

I was wondering when that would show up. The ammunition for a crossbow is called a bolt. And is this was a real crossbow, i.e. designed for hunting, it would be almost impossible to "accidently" loose it on one's self. There is a foot hold at the bottom to assist with drawing the string into the release, so it's pointed away from the person at that point. Then the bolt (arrow) must be placed in it's channel, and I really can't think of why a person would do this with the crossbow pointed at them since it's easily accomplished in every other manner save for upside-down. And since it is an open-body weapon it's not like this person had to "look down the barrel" so to speak. This was no accident, and I doubt it was suicide as it is an extremely painful way to die. The only logical argument for suicide would be a "when I'm found I don't want my family to see me destroyed in some way as would be the result of a gun", but then there is overdosing on medicine to accomplish the same purpose, but no sure guarantee you will succeed. This man was murdered. At the very least he is the manslaughter-victim of a terrible accident of which no one has yet to come forward to claim responsibility.

I think the problem might be that you are looking for a logical argument...I've seen some REALLY stupid "accidents" that defied all logic and common sense. Thanks for the good information on crossbows Rev. I kind of agree with you that suicide doesn't make it to the top of my list, however, from what I've seen extreme pain has never really been a deterrent to suicide attempts.

Lets give the police time to sort this out before we make judgements, There are many kinds of bows and arrows on the market, someone with experience needs to be consulted, there may be finger print evidence which hasn't as yet been determined. Even an experienced homocide detective would need help in sorting out the details. Another way of lookng at this police force is maybe they've prevented more crimes through due diligence than they've had to solve. One death in ten years is an impressive record by any standard. I say give the police time to make a thorough investigation before we start looking to place blame anywhere.

WE had a suicide here where the guy shot himself TWICE in the head with a 1911 government 45acp. It was ruled a suicide. NO KIDDING> verifiable fact.

hmm..physics...takes some movement and distance to build up the kinetic force needed...doesn't it?

A bolt/arrow weighing a minimum of 400 Grain in weight, 15 inches long, leaving the crossbow at approximately 315 fps. with 175 ft.lbs per inch force would appear to be adequate to completely penetrate a mans chest at close range. You're the physicist so do the math. I stand by my original post.

Sure, it can punch through bone and organs and skin, but you are talking at a long range. This doesn't say how close he was holding the crossbow to his chest or how far away it was from him. I do not know how to use one nor have I personally seen one. I'm curious how this works out. I'm not being difficult, I'm genuinely interested.

I understand cbawl's point. If the crossbow was triggered close to the man's chest it wouldn't have had time to transfer all the energy from the bow to the bolt before it entered his body. If that happened it's quote likely that the crossbow moved backward some instead of the bolt being thrown forward. That would eat up a lot of the energy that could have been imparted to the bolt. The bold wouldn't be at full power until just before leaving the cable.

Having not seen the crime scene there is really no way to say either way for sure.

Or, perhaps, he just held the bolt to his chest and fell on it.

sounds like a job for myth busters!

My understanding of the initial report is that it was a homocide, I don't know who might have been questioned or what other evidence was present to lead anyone to believe that it was a suicide, which may have been started as means of keeping the city's pristine record clean. Lily white neighborhoods, and I don't mean to imply any racial overtones to this designation, rarely want to admit that there is a fungus among us. Many people just don't want to admit that someone they know or they have seen about town could do this crime whatever its nature. Its a form of denial of the frailities of all men. Bundy used his smile to the hilt, killed no one knows how many women and girls because he just didn't look like someone who would do that. The town wants to keep its reputation, a suicide would preserve its image, but I doubt the sheriff will stake his reputation as a law enforcement officer on the protection of an image.

@ NC - The police did say it was a homicide but the police chief (I believe it was the chief.) said they couldn't rule out suicide ATM.

Granted a suicide seems highly unlikely, but a good investigator doesn't throw out a theory just because it's unlikely. That's when evidence gets missed.

Myth Busters saves the day. Seriously, I can't wrap my head around this.

CABWL 17.1 after the arrow leaves the string (or the bullet leaves the barrel) it is slowing down. Even if the arrow has not left the string, the pushing force is sufficient to cause the razor sharp point to penetrate within and even through the body.

Now that one was funny. :)

25.3 Gneisenau.....sudden decompression from a cabin pressure of 8 psi more than outside atmospheric at 36,000 feet can easily cause a burst implant. Picture a simple inflated balloon if it suddenly was exposed to 8 psi less atmospheric pressure.... implants are as tough as basketballs, so probably..... boom.

Do you believe everything you see on TV? :)

No, I don't but this particular show Meagpie they "claim" that the show is based on actual deaths that have occurred all over the world and supposedly based on true events, now whether they are or not, of course you and I both will have to keep wondering.

You know I've watched that show several times. I just have to call BS on several of the thing's I've seen on there. A few weeks ago they had a lady's breast implants explode all over the inside of a the plane. I'm just not buying that on a pressurized airplane the pressure difference was enough to make her implants explode her all over the inside of the plane.

I saw that episode too Gneisenau and I think what happened with that girl (supposedly) was that the type of implant that she got was the reasoning for the explosion of her implants, they were water based or had a water like substance to them and the higher the plane went the water started to bubble inside of her and kept bubbling the higher the altitude and because she had gone to a crappy DR. that had just stuck anything he could find in there was the reasoning that they exploded. If she had gone to someone that might have known what they were doing then she could have been alive today. But again, we don't know how real any of the episodes are, I was just using it as a reference to this story of the bow and it being a freak accident.

@ Kim - that's the way they explained it, but why would water boil in her breast implants when it doesn't in your plastic cup sitting on your tray table. I couldn't see it rupture like that if her implants were filled with soda pop. Someone's going to have to do a much better job of explaining the physics of that to me to believe it.

That scenario sounds like a show made for Mythbusters to investigate. LOL

Gneisenau, that is a good point, maybe the mixture of the height of the plane and also the temperature of her body and the fact that the bubbling caused her temp to rise, I don't really know, but normally on the show they have DR's come on there to explain the reasoning of the accidents and I cant answer that one but maybe it was because whatever he put in there was not the "standard" implant and made them explode that is the only thing I can think of. No one really knows exactly what he put in there. I do feel bad for this gentlemen and his family and also if the story was real for the girl that this happened to. I hope they are both at peace. GulfVet: I agree with that also, Mythbusters to the rescue on this one! LOL

Most of the stories may be true, but I think that some of those stories are either made up or embellished quite a bit.

And yes let's get Mythbusters on it. That's a fine and at least entertaining idea.

@ Balckcat - I'm going to reply down here.

25.3 Gneisenau.....sudden decompression from a cabin pressure of 8 psi more than outside atmospheric at 36,000 feet can easily cause a burst implant. Picture a simple inflated balloon if it suddenly was exposed to 8 psi less atmospheric pressure.... implants are as tough as basketballs, so probably..... boom.

But the plane didn't decompress. I could maybe understand that. It was just a routine flight where she supposedly exploded when they reached cruising altitude.