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Subscribe to RSSEL CAJON, Calif. -- A 10-year-old boy is suspected to have stabbed a 12-year-old friend to death with a kitchen knife, according to authorities.
The older boy died Monday at a hospital after he was taken from his friend's home in El Cajon, about 15 miles east of San Diego. The mother of the 10-year-old was at home at the time of the stabbing, according to the U-T San Diego newspaper.
San Diego County sheriff's officials took the 10-year-old into custody. Sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit said, "the case will be up to the juvenile justice system."
It remained unclear whether the boy had been booked into the juvenile detention system. His name has not been released because of his age. The sheriff's office did not immediately return calls from The Associated Press.
Neighbors said the 12-year-old boy lived in a nearby mobile home park but the two friends attended different schools.
'Temper tantrums'
A neighbor of the younger boy, 18-year-old Derek Gorton, told the newspaper the child had emotional issues, and that something as small as tapping him on the shoulder the wrong way or losing at a video game could spark outrage.
"Even though he threw temper tantrums, we never thought he'd do anything like this," said Gorton.
Gorton's father, Brian Richeson, said the boy usually had verbal outbursts, but he hadn't seen him throwing things or hitting others. He praised the boy's mother, saying she had dealt with her son's problems head-on.
"She was the best mom I've ever met," Richeson told the U-T. "She knew how to take care of him if he was yelling and screaming."
Point Loma family psychologist Rochelle Perper told the U-T that charging the 10-year-old as an adult would be a "big stretch," particularly if mental health issues were found.
"More likely there will be a lot more psychological care. The focus should be on rehabilitating someone that young," she told the paper.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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the whole concept of child murders always confuses me. a person knows right from wrong at a very young age. theres no reason why kids who commit murder shouldnt be prosecuted like anyone else. after all, i certainly dont think that a few years in a juvenile detention hall is going to fix what is CLEARLY a born killer. if you're murdering at 10, there's no hope for you.
Children are not little adults. Many adults do not know right from wrong. As an educator, a PhD level instructional designer--specifically--I tell my students that studies are consistent: the average child cannot think abstractly until about age 13. You can do things in the classroom with 13 year old children that totally baffle 12 year olds. Often if you tell a young child to get your toothbrush but don't mention getting the toothpaste too, they won't. Children are not as bright as we think they are. That is why they need so much guidance.
PhD here too Brenda (Criminology) ..... Thinking abstractly about a toothbrush and toothpaste is one thing, knowing that it is wrong to hurt people is another. A child does not need to understand or appreciate WHY hurting another child (or people or animals....) is wrong, only THAT it is wrong. This is how social norms are internalized - through socialization. A child's personality, as the empirical research has shown, is fairly well established by age 8. They know the difference between right or wrong. And they can act upon it. Just because you can't understand the abstract concept of death does not mean you don't know that causing death is wrong. I may not understand the mathematical explanations behind some phenomenon, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that addition means "more than I initially had" and subtraction means "less than I initially had". BTW, adults DO know the difference between right and wrong - unless they are sociopaths who never internalized the expectations of a society. Only a small percentage of the population are sociopaths who have no conscience (i.e. never internalized social expectations of behavior). Adults CHOOSE to act wrong. Did you get your PhD from an online program??? Because you are comparing apples with oranges.
Rockmebritney,
You're confused all right. Even normal children from good (or well to do) families don't always learn right from wrong. Moreover, children don't fully understand the consequences of their actions. They live in the moment. They act out. They are childish.
Add in emotional problems, peer pressure and poor societal example and the wonder is it doesn't happen more often. Today's glaring examples of how to conduct social relations are very much at fault. Rambo gets mistreated by a cop so he takes out the entire town. We've been making heroes out of murderers since Jesse James and Billy the Kid.
Think about it; what is there really to admire about a character like Tony Soprano? Millionaire athletes throw twitter tantrums or run illegal dog fighting operations, lying cheating and stealing are rampant from Wall Street to Congress.
This child is apparently emotionally disturbed... that is, mentally ill. That means he can be treated. You say there's no hope for him... so what should society do, kill him?
True sociopaths are very rare. And they seem quite normal... not really laboring under a debilitating mental illness... they simply lack the capacity for empathy. Like you.
I agree. A child killer will remain a killer. I praise his mother for attempting to cope with this but it is clearly a case of Darwin needing to weed out this type personality!
This "child" stabbed to death another child...........when, will it end?
If he"s not already permanetly damaged. He may need to be incarcerated for the rest of his life. And should be, no bleeding heart cutting him loose when he turns 18.
There is a reason. But no one wants to hear it.
Have you ever stood next to someone who was watching TV and called their name repeatedly without getting a response? That person is in a state of hypnosis. During that state, they are highly suggestible.
Do you want to quickly learn a foreign language? Rhyme the words and add a beat.
Navy pilots spend hours playing video games so that during a real situation, they will react automatically.
Our children spend most of their day either in a state of hypnosis while viewing graphic violence, listening to music that suggests anger and violence, or playing games to hone their skill in killing.
They are young. Their brains are quite plastic. Every day they work hard building multiple networks for violence. Day after day, year after year.
The "adults" in society cannot control themselves for the public good. There are no public values or public morals. Corporate profits and private self-indulgence trumps everything. Children pay the price.
But people will say oh no, it's not television, it's not rap, it's not video games. And certainly it's not because the child has been raised by a string of strangers since 6 weeks. It must be something in the water, right?
Ban all knives!! *slight sarcasm*
I feel sorry for the parents of both families. Long after this child turns 18 and maybe becomes the next Charles Manson the other family will still be hurting.
Brenda-251440 I find it absolutely stunning that a so called PHD can make the statement (Many adults do not know right from wrong) You know what is really scary is this person is educating our kids with this mentality. Give me a break. Does MANY mean most?????? What a CROCK!!!!!!
I feel sorry for both sets of parents. This child lost his life and all the rehabilitation in the world will not change that. Sadly, when one kills at this age the chances of his being rehavilitated are slim to none. This is typical behavior for a budding serial killer. A controled enviroment and medication will be needed for the rest of his life. My prayers to all.
And worse yet, Charles Manson has been inadvertently glorified through the years. He's not what people purport him to be. He is really a sniveling little coward who's mother spent most of her years in prison, and Charlie craved attention. He has proven that over and over again. He sent others to do what he didn't have the nerve to do himself, and knew full and well what he was doing was wrong. Seems that back in the day though that children who had a little corporal punishment as opposed to Ritalin and other drugs, remembered right from wrong much better. Its the system that shelters these children and convinces them that they are victims, that create these "child murderers." They need to be taught early. There are consequences to your actions.
i feel sorry for the 12 year old and his family .the other kid i agree with rockme fry him he is old enough to know right from wrong
I do not have a PHD..but you don't need one to realize that a 10yr old DOES know the difference between right and wrong. So do Adults. They may not DO the right things, but they do know if what they doing is legally and/or morally wrong.
I doubt that CA will try him as an adult. But he should be kept locked up. For EVERYONES safety.
If you need a reason to understand that stabbing is wrong, maybe you need to goto a hospital, soon yourself, Just kill the kids he commited murder, once they have the taste of killing something its never leave the mind, they need to do it again. So sorry even if he is 10 years old a kids knows what he did was wrong, and should be put down. when a dog bites a person its put down. So whats the difference here. An Animal instincts?? yeah so treat it as such!
You do have to wonder where the violent outbursts come from ? If the Mother was a good Mother and he went to a good school he wasn't old enough to acquire such hatred..I would like to know more about the Video games he was playing..
Nerd fight!!!
;)
As for the topic at hand . . . while I have not received a PhD - online or otherwise - it would appear from the article that they boy has some mental health issues. If that is indeed the case, I would say treatment - not incarceration - is the appropriate course of action. Regardless, it is certainly a tragedy for all concerned.
You never know what goes on behind closed doors at home. I saw my own mother break her hand hitting my brother. Then she taught us all a lie to tell the neighbors. Mine was a "respectable" home where no one would have suspected the mayhem my mother caused.
And there is much worse intrafamilial abuse than I experienced, that quietly wreaks havoc on children's lives.
I am a parent with a child with a disability and feel that this 10 year old child may have a disabilty. Of course, another child losing his life is no laughing matter and there does need to be a form of treatment for the child in question. I do NOT BELIEVE that the child should be FRIED like the above comment mentioned. I feel for both families and realize that the deceased child can not be brought back. Society, can not understand what they do not experience. The mother of the 10 year old may have needed more help with her son and with her son's erratic behaviors could not have anticipated what would have happened. Children with disabilities have a different concept/understanding of the world and some could not comprehend consequences of their actions. Also, some may have a lower IQ, immaturity, and given that the outcome is different. It takes a lot of teaching skills to these children to better equip them for the outside world. Society remains scared of what is seemed as a broken individual that can not be fixed or taught, but in reality society does not what to do what it needs to take to help these families before tragedies like this occur in any matter.
Knowing right from wrong is one thing. Taking a life is a totally different thing. This is a corner, once turned, rarely if ever can be corrected. The issue appears to be what to do with these children. My question, for children this age, is how much is nature and how much is nurture?
You don't treat children as adults in the rest of the legal system so its sort of outrageous to pick and choose where they are adults and where they are not. You same people that claim kids know right from wrong, say kids don't know how to decide f they want to have sex with someone or not. You say they know right from wrong but can't sign legal contracts. They know right from wrong but can't be trusted to vote. its ridiculous.
There are too many double standards. You have to be 21 to drink because you are not "mature" enough to handle drinking. In some places you have to be 18 to drive, 16 here in georgia. So you can't drink but we can trust you behind the wheel of a 1500 pound car. Then of course there is the military, kids get recruited in highschool. You can't drink, but we'll give you a gun and expect you to kill someone if necessary or not. You can be tried as an adult as young as 12, or 14 but you can't drive or drink and definitely no guns. If the reason we have all these rules is because children cannot and do not have the capcity to understand consequences, aren't mature enough to decide right from wrong, and cannot be trusted to stay focused, on task, and alert, then how in God's name do we expect a child to understand the meaning of death. In the video games, you get another life, on tv and in the movies you see the same actors in the next movie. The concept of time (forever) and death is impossible for a child to understand. This child needs help, that's obvious, but society needs to decide if we are children at 10, or adults....if we are adults, then we have to make that a constant.
knowing right from wrong is completely different than being able to control yourself in an emotional (or what you perceive to be emotional) situation. Kids who can't control themselves emotionally have not yet developed the system in their brains that makes most adults able to do so. So whether or not he knows right from wrong is irrelevant. He needs to be able to control his outbursts, and he can't. Crimes of passion happen all the time with people who know right from wrong. Then there are those who intellectually know right from wrong, but just don't care. Whether he is one of these types we can only guess at this point.
I'm sorry, some people cannot be allowed freedom if they display such violent tendencies at such a young age. By all means, try to treat him, but do it in a locked institution and don't get your hopes up. If the neighbors are to be believed, and if there is no doubt that he took an opportunity to murder another child with the nearest dangerous object he could find then I don't want him running around where he can hurt more people.
I personally believe a child knows right from wrong by 10 years old, but they have a hard time controlling impulses. Stabbing a friend is a crime of passion - the kid snapped, didn't think about anything other than what upset him, and attempted to eliminate that stressor. Adults struggle with impulse control all the time as well, but are usually better at holding back. A 10 year old? Not so much...
That being said, I am honestly on the fence about what kind of punishment this kid should receive...
Don't know if the kid knows right from wrong or not. Don't really care. If he is stabbing people, I don't want him on the street with my kids. He can stay safely behind bars. That other kid only got one chance at life, I see no reason to give the murdering child more chances than the victim.
Neither will anyone else. If you want tootpaste, ASK for toothpaste.
It is nonsense to charge a child of this age as an adult. Neurological science tells us that a childs frontal lobe ( the part of the brain responsible for higher thought, reasoning, thinking outside of ones self...) doesn't start developing until the teen years. If you look at the data of neurological abnormalities in children the numbers are skyrocketing. Children are developing ADD, ADHD, epilepsy, autism spectrum disorders at such an increasing rate that we really need to push for finding the cause. We have so much stuff being added to our food and water supply, we don't know what we are putting into our bodies. Arsenic in apple juice, pesticides. This has been happening for years, every year without our knowledge food suppliers push to change the standards to add more, to change what amount may be harmful. No one cares about what happens over time. As the population increases and the need for more arises we will see more/new illness and disorders. We put our faith in a God we can't touch, hear or see. But we don't believe there are problems because we can't outwardly see them, or they don't show immediatly.
Always thought the parent(s) were somehow responsible for molding the general disposition of children...especially the reactive responses to simple interaction and exchanges between humans. This kid sounds like he's undergone some abuse also. You can blame a number of external influences, but his mom doesn't seem so much like the innocent one, as some are suggesting. The kid's really young to be so full of rage at times.
@KSUMBA: Glass house dear. You blow by all the medical studies (as in data, not subjective opinion) about the development of adolescent brains and what that means for impulse control, anger and decision making, which are all well documented. It's one thing to criticize Brenda's poor choice of analogy (agreed), but at least she was on a scientific track pertinent to the subject as opposed to your reducing it to "knowing" right from wrong.
There are medical reasons that now reinforce the long held practice of treating child criminals differently that adults, and it has all to do with self control (quantifiable), delayed gratification (quantifiable), impulse control (quantifiable) as opposed to "knowing" good from bad, regardless of how simple it is to pronounce otherwise without any data.
As to the tragedy itself, it sounds like it is indeed that. My heart goes out to the family of the slain child, surely nothing will ever be really good again for them. I also have sympathy for the parent of the perpetrator, who I am sure is racked with guilt. My own takeaway: covering mental health care for people who need it is in everyone's best interests.
one smart- i like what you say. but i must admit i have a hard time letting the 1500 pound car go. most cars are over 3000 pounds, most midsize are 4000, and trucks are 5000 to start. i for one would love cars that light, although it would still put a big dent in your life if you got hit by one. i know this is off topic sorry.
I can't believe most of you!
Of course a child can have a "moral compass" at an early age. I knew the difference between right and wrong very early in life. We all learn how to interact with our peers from the time we start social interaction with others. We learn what is a positive action and what is a negative action.
The hard truth is some people are just wired differently. Whether that is by environment, genetics or a combination of both is a totally different subject. I can state an easy dozen people I grew up with that had anger and impulse issues as a young child and still do to this day. Some were downright mean and cruel. One ended up raping and killing several women. Looking back at how he was as a very small child, you would say to yourself "well that figures". I also know some remarkably kind people who were that way even at a very young age.
But listening to the idea that the media and video games are to blame cracks me up. There has been some level of violence in the media forever that children were exposed to on a daily basis for a long time. It's a matter of if the child watching TV or playing video games has empathy and a moral compass already that determines how they act.
Dear KSUMBA,
Not sure what you got your PhD in, but it obviously is not in any subjects involve human brain development nor early childhood developement. The part of the human brain that determines right and wrong does not FULLY develop until the very early 20's. This is why teenagers are so easily influenced and affected by peer pressure. Remember there are millions of various situations where there is a definate right and wrong as well as millions in which the line can go both ways (wrong to kill, but if it is a choice between them or your child, then you can kill, etc). As adults we can process immediate situations and know how to react in the right way (well, not always seeing we read about people making the wrong choice all the time). But children can not process these immediate situtational decisions as quickly as we do. Chances are this young boy realized very soon afterwards that what he did was wrong. But in the moment when he was upset, young children and teenagers tend to react before they think everything through all the way. It is not always their fault it's how the brain develops. Now throw into it that he may also suffer from non-violent neurological issues and he might have reacted in a manner that he would never have done as an adult. As an adult he may have told his friend to F-U and stormed out. But I think all of us with children can attest that children tend to be a little more dramatic about things. i.e. pacing around the tree before Christmas because they can't wait to open the presents, acting like not getting a toy they want if world ending, never being a friends with a schoolmate one day and then best friends again the next. Welcome to the wonderful world of childhood development.
Mom-Me,
A recent article coming out of Notre Dame University takes formal studies done at Harvard, Yale and Baylor that show that when babies cry too hard for too long it releases a hormone in their blood stream that kills brain cells. If enough of these are killed at a certain point in the brain development between ages 5 months to 12 months it can cause permanent brain development issues. They even mentioned that if you compare the when the number of children developing ADHD, ADD and Autism began to explode, it happens to match when the Ferber Cry Out Method became popular in the US.
The common misconception is that you let your child cry till they fall asleep. Even Ferber has had to come out and say that yo are not supposed to be letting your kid cry for 30+ minutes and if they cry to the point of throwing up or gasping for air, you are now abusing your child and not helping. But let's be honest....most parent don't read all the info. They read the Cliff's notes from other "oh-so-well-informed" mommy blog sites.
lovebuzz,
I agree with most of what you have to say. May I offer this...I don't think punishment, as we know it, would have an affect. From a really low concept, in this child's mind he may have been "punishing" his playmate. From the small amount of information provided in the article, it seems the parents were trying to do the right thing. IF this is nature, punishing will have no effect on future behavior. Medicating them and returning them to society, provides a potential for further violence. I feel these children that are medicated, need to be in a place that is consistently monitoring the meds.
IF it is nature, I feel this child needs to be removed from society. As far as what should happen, I believe we begin at the beginning. We first need to provide food and safe shelter, he is a human being. I feel that by studying children that kill, we will eventually discover what causes this response. Treating them over a period of time we may also learn what works and what does not. I am not advocating torture people. For all of you out there that think this is in-humane for this child, you might want to consider all those children that may come into this world with those tendencies. How really humane is it to allow future children to have to go through this when we may be able to successfully intervene.
For all the studies they can never proove anything 100% it's all just a guess in the end about a given individual. Let me explain. A study comes out and says kids do not fully develop their brains until their early 20's. The truth is every child, every person, every human being is different. Yes you can group a certain number of people into a category. But simply being in that category does NOT equal an individuals response in a given situation. Yet we try to use these studies to say it does. In other words people say things like "oh well he is only 17 and this study over here says they aren't fully developed unitl they are in their 20's." It may be true it may not be true but the mere presence of the study does not dictate the truth.
All the psycho babble notwithstanding, children know the difference between right and wrong at a very early age. But knowing is one thing, having the control to act appropriately is something else altogether; and if the peer pressure is on, this "knowledge" often goes out the door. In this case, it sounds like this child has some serious problems, and it is very sad that it culminated in this tragedy. His friend cannot be brought back, but this child is only ten, so with the right therapy, there may be some hope for him. Put him in a juvenile facility and pump him full of drugs, and he's lost.
By most of the reasoning on this vine, many of you would just kill all of the military folks that come home from war. You say that once you turn the corner there is no coming back. It boils down to mental help for this child, putting him in the system will just make it worse.
I know this type of behavior is often attributed to media violence and poor social environment of one sort or another. However, what needs to be included in the discussion is the possible role of man made toxins which saturates our technologically advanced environment. These substances can have a profound effect on human development especially when the fetus is exposed. In addition, not all children are exposed equally or at the crucial times of development. Therefore, until proven otherwise, one cannot logically conclude that it is nature or some other reason just because the vast majority of kids don't exhibit this same type of behavior.
Therefore, before I start labeling the child as some kind of severe social deviant, especially by reason of nature, I am going to advocate patience and further study. Until then, as much as my anger and sadness at such a tradgedy inclines me to want this kid treated as an adult and, tried, convicted and incarcerated for the rest of his life, I would have to make the assumption that the kid, in a different environment, would have been quite different and, therefore, he deserves our compassion.
My sincerest condolances to the parents of the child who was killed. Let us hope that this tradgedy will encourage actions that will lessen the likelyhood of this happening again. And, in so doing, his death will not have been in vain.
Our society still operates under the Salem Witch Trials mentality. Kids have become so desensitized to violence and murder they no longer see it as "wrong" which is a societal concept not the law of human nature, but a fact of daily life! Humans are genetically created to be natural born killers, no differently than most mammals residing on this planet who will kill for food, territory, defense, power, lack of parenting abilites, etc. Sure, societies for the most part have been able to civilize this part of human nature when it provides basic resources such as education, food, shelter, and jobs thereby limiting the need for humans to kill, however it will never be able to unwrite our genetic code or completely stop humans from killing for these or other reasons such as defense, power/control, territory, etc.
This child is 10 YEARS OLD, and obviously has some mental issues as stated by others but they're unknown. Sadly, this story, like so many others, has more holes than a block of swiss cheese, yet everyone claims to be an expert on this case...lol. I'm not naive enough to know this article didn't provide any facts where it may have been self defense, or a game gone terribly wrong, so I cannot in good conscious automatically state wether he's guilty of the crime of murder without having ALL the facts. Nor can I say yes or not to his rehabilition and/or release IF he's found guilty by a judge or jury, because again, there are too many UNKNOWN variables and facts the public doesn't have, so how on earth can any of you make blanket assumptions for something that may or may not take place in the near or distant future?!? FYI, there are thousands who have killed another human for whatever reason and never killed again, so it's unfair to apply a one-size-fits-all standard so early in the process.
Don't get me wrong---I feel terrible for the young boy who died and espcially for his family who suffered such a terrible loss. But this isn't the first case of young children killing other children, and sadly it won't be the last.
Why are they skyrocketing? Shut off the TV. Take away the phone. Throw out the video games. Give them a book and MAKE them read it. Sincerest condolences to the family of the dead child.
ADD and TV do not cause kids to murder their friends. This sounds like an emotional issue way beyond that. Tragic, and this 10 year old will probably be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
Brenda;
Brenda I'll bet you a dollar that any child who stuck it's hand into the flames of a birthday cake at age 4 would not tend to repeat it on the celebration of it's 5th birthday........and while I agree they need guidance, kids are more intelligent than you you give them credit for! (my child would have brought the toothpaste with the brush at age 4!)
Though you claim to be "formally educated" (what ever that's worth-----what ever happened to good old common sense?) there are holes in your reasoning. Yes, children are not little adults, but I must take issue with your comment that many adults do not know right from wrong. I know several mentally retarded people, all who have a good understanding of right from wrong. While some of it was learned behavior, some was not and comes as the result of their conscience awareness from observation. Yes, some people make poor choices but more often than not it's based on desire not ignorance.
Why is it we have to teach our children to do right, but they have no problem doing wrong on their own? I did not have to teach my children to leave their toys of dirty socks on the floor, however, when I confronted them the second time about these things (at a very young age) I got that guilty little glance that confirmed they knew better and had made a conscience decision to disobey authority and house rules. Thirteen is a little late to expect a young person to think on their own, we've all heard of people that age stepping up to the plate after losing their parents and doing whatever was right to provide for their siblings, they did not learn to do so overnight. Our current educational system teaches children to depend on others to think for them and we are seeing the fruits of a flawed system where personal responsibility is fading fast!
To suggest that the average ten year old would not know it's wrong to stab his friend to death is most unreasonable. While I will not venture into why this happened or what needs to be done with the offender, I wouldn't want this boy in my home after the lights are out.
Most often we see posts placing blame in every area but where it should be with many refusing to accept the concept of personal responsibility. Should we now write new laws about banning kitchen knives? This idea of blaming inanimate objects reflects the lack of wisdom so prevalent in today's culture.
While I believe that ultimately this crime was the direct result of someone making the wrong choice, I can't help wondering what type of television and movies he watched, what video games he "played" and what kind of parenting he grew up with. Also one must wonder what value a child of understanding would put on human life when it is portrayed as just another commodity in the abortion mills across the US. (Sorry to all in the other camp but you must agree it's food for thought!)
Regardless, how sad for all concerned. This is just another example of someone slipping through the cracks. How different things might have been if a positive adult figure had turned off the TV or computer and spent a little time with this young boy training him to go in the right direction.
Though tragic this story reminds me of the need to consider where I can make a positive contribution in the life of a young person in this troubled world we live in.
We live in perilous times!
I don't understand why the Age of Adulthood is 18 if we think that chidren are just as responsable at 10 years old. By this logic, they should vote, play the Lotto, buy cigaretts, ect.
Certainly this child knew right from wrong; but that is still a far cry from the capacity to understand the full impact of one's actions.
Pat:
I know a 5 year old that can make change for a dollar and ten year olds that are far more responsible than someone twice their age. Suffice to say kids are "growing up" way too fast, however, if they didn't some would starve for lack of parental provision and care.
As you stated, many do not understand the full impact of their actions, and it's not only the kids! It's like the parent who always had booze available in the kitchen cabinet and openly consumed alcohol in front of their children growing up and then wondered why their kid got drunk and was killed in a head-on collusion on prom night. They stand at the side of a casket crying "Why did God let my baby die?" God did not kill anyone, poor judgement did!
The age at which one becomes responsible in the eyes of society has not kept up with the times. "Responsibility" is not even in the vocabulary of many folks today young and old alike, and the numbers are growing in the negative column pertaining to lack personal responsibility.
The major contribution to this quagmire has been the break-down of the home with a Mom AND Dad doing their part to bring their children up right. Marriage today is just a legal document, a piece of paper with not strings attached except for financial responsibility to the children left behind which is often ignored. Today's "all about me" attitude leaves little time or concern for the children caught in the jaws of despair.
The "good old days" were not perfect yet the percentages bear out the fact that things were better on Main Street USA when the home was intact.
Pat;
After reading my post above it occurred to me I threw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. I want to clarify that not all parents are doing a bad job, many, (the majority I hope) strive to do the best they can under their circumstances and things would be a whole lot worse if they weren't.
My point is personal responsibility is key for all of us, I am responsible for MY actions not you or anyone else. While there are exceptions to most rules, time has shown we have not progressed in the area of self reliance.There must be a final authority and since there seems to be a conflict in that area we can't expect a perfect world.
Again, the effectiveness of throwing money at and creating programs for any social ill pales in contrast to the effect of loving ones neighbor and making an effort to help where we can in a personal respect. We're all too busy these day's and it shows.
OMG, some of these comments are scaring the LIVING CRAP OUT OF ME! It is a sad commentary on our society any time we want to punish a 10yr old with mental issues, as an adult. The front part of your brain, the frontal lobe where you make your decisions, isn't completely formed until 26 years of age! Yea, he may know right from wrong, but does not have the ability to understand and contemplate the full consequences of his actions! Human beings learn from their experiences and as they mature and gain experience, they have the ability foresee and fully understand the consequences of thier actions! How much experience do you have at ten years old?
The knee-jerk, short-term solutions that have come to be the hallmark of American thinking is downright frightening and holds untold and unspeakable consequences for the young people who live here. Watch out, young people --- unscrupulous adults will put you in situations that you are in no way ready to deal with.
I'm no expert, but I used to work with disabled kids (12-14). One in particular threw a lot of tantrums similar to those described in the article. For most of the year, the tantrums would just be a lot of screaming and slapping the table. Sometimes they were triggered by something as small as the noise in the room becoming too loud. I was sitting next to him one day when he threw one of his tantrums and he grabbed both of my arms at the elbow and dragged his nails down to my wrists. The scratches started bleeding immediately. His doctors had altered his medication recently, and that was the only explanation we had, besides the fact that he was mentally disabled. The article doesn't say if he was on medication or had been diagnosed with a disorder, but it doesn't seem this kid fits most definitions of a "normal" 10-year-old.
I don't think he should be charged as a competent adult. But he definitely needs evaluation, medication, and constant monitoring; possibly for the rest of his life.
I totally have a problem understanding what the issue is. Kids know right from wrong. Adults should too, though there are some who consider themselves above rules. My parents taught me to brush my teeth, to not stay on the tv for a long time, to look both ways before crossing the street. I may be younger than almost all of you but I totally understand that stabbing someone, shooting somebody, or any other form of such is totally unacceptable. This mom is apparently consider an amazing parent, I am sure she at least taught her kid not to kill anyone.
If this was something simple, 'I didn't brush my teeth', that type of thing, it could be reversed and it wouldnt be a big deal. This can't be reversed, you need to be responsible for your actions, and not being tried as an adult is ridiculous.
He knew, because I am sure he had been punished for such behavior, that this is/was wrong. But he chose to ignore it, knowing the difference between right and wrong is one thing, it's if you choose to follow those rules or ignore them. Many people ignore them. This has nothing to do with the fact he's young.
I know not to kill people, you should too. The consequence is prison, it's a felony. For anyone.
There are so many age restrictions in life-13 for facebook, 16 for driving, 18 for legally signing contracts, 21 for drinking alcohol. Killing someone-that's prison for anyone.
Age doesn't matter.
He should be tried as an adult but when he comes of age in the meantime hold him in an Asylum or halfway house under strict supervision. Once he is old enough he then should be tried and convicted as an adult so that he has a greater chance of benefitting from the punishment. He will have a better understanding of what he did wrong and will have to pay for it knowingly. He will put all the pieces of the puzzle together if he isn't Psychologically challenged. This way he stands a chance to change for the better if he is closer to normal than not.
Ironically, I was just commenting on the story about the 15 yr old boy shooting and killing his 16 yr old sister. A lot of people were blaming guns. One of the arguments proponents of legal guns used was that a teenager could have just as easily used a knife.
And wow, this was the next story and comments I read.
If the kid was already that looney tunes, DSS shoulda stepped in and placed him in a hospital, even if his mother "could control him", which was evidently a fail this time. I'd be hard pressed to say he should be charged as an adult, but he needs to be locked up in a psych ward for a long long time. Till he's about 80 years old. Totally doubtful he'll EVER be a contributor to society
Michael Myers comes to mind...
Ya, couldn't agree more with ya. How much in SSI is this kid goona take in his life. He acted like a wild dog, he needs put down like a wild dog. At a minimum incarcerated until he demonstrates for YEARS that he became normal. With the PHD above statin even adults don't know right form wrong, I'd say this little sicko will never git better.
PS: Sterilize him also so the "Pit Bull" gene doesn't continue on.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. They NEVER step in until someone has been hurt. No one can predict the future and obviously no one thought this would happen and even if they did it'd be pretty difficult to have something done BEFORE he hurt someone.
How can you say the kid is a looney?!?!
Sadly, our society still operates under the Salem Witch Trials mentality! let's face it, ids have become so desensitized to violence and murder they no longer see it as "wrong" which is a societal concept not the law of human nature, but a fact of daily life! Humans are genetically created to be natural born killers, no differently than most mammals residing on this planet who will kill for food, territory, defense, power, lack of parenting abilites, etc. Sure, societies for the most part have been able to civilize this part of human nature when it provides basic resources such as education, food, shelter, and jobs thereby limiting the need for humans to kill, however it will never be able to unwrite our genetic code or completely stop humans from killing for these or other reasons such as defense, power/control, territory, etc.
This child is 10 YEARS OLD, and obviously has some mental issues as stated by others but they're unknown. Sadly, this story, like so many others, has more holes than a block of swiss cheese, yet everyone claims to be an expert on this case...lol. I'm not naive enough to know this article didn't provide any facts where it may have been self defense, or a game gone terribly wrong, so I cannot in good conscious automatically state wether he's guilty of the crime of murder without having ALL the facts. Nor can I say yes or not to his rehabilition and/or release IF he's found guilty by a judge or jury, because again, there are too many UNKNOWN variables and facts the public doesn't have, so how on earth can any of you make blanket assumptions for something that may or may not take place in the near or distant future?!? FYI, there are thousands who have killed another human for whatever reason and never killed again, so it's unfair to apply a one-size-fits-all standard so early in the process.
Don't get me wrong---I feel terrible for the young boy who died and espcially for his family who suffered such a terrible loss. But this isn't the first case of young children killing other children, and sadly it won't be the last.
he's completely normal! :P
SpryLunnx you argument would only hold water if all kids where running around killing each other. Obviously since that's not happening we as parents must be teaching our kids right from wrong. this child had a mental disorder and sometimes even though they where treating it you don't know how serious it is untill something happens. It is very rare that a small child does something life threatening so everyone needs to calm down. He will get intense therapy now. To think some of you out there think he sould be locked up for the rest of his lfe at 10. Shame on you!
what a loser...this kid is...hope he get's to see... the dead friend before they bury him...maybe just to show him ...what a loser he is...troll harder it's 2012...
This is why I am very careful about who I allow my kids to associate with..
Exactly!
Again Rob, you take a very poorly written article where it was "alluded" he may have some mental issues based solely on the commentsof an 18 year old, who as we all know are highly educated and experienced in making psycological evaluations, right?!?!
The public still does not now WHAT HAPPENED, only that a 10 year old is SUSPECTED (read the headline) of killing a 12 year old with a kitchen knife, but it doesn't say anything about the reasons, or how, or what occured during this time! Thought our judicial system was founded on the premise that everyone is INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY?!? Why even have a court system and waste taxpayer $$$ when they can be convicted in the comments section of an online-newspaper with horrible reporting skills! Geesh!
I can't believe some of the posts here. This CHILD obviously had emotional/psychological problems that may have been left untreated. That's a parental responsibility. You can't blame the child for that. The "best Mom" mentioned in the article is a moot point--no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Was this CHILD being treated? Did the parents fail to get him help? Did DSS even know there was a problem with this CHILD? Did the parents lack health insurance and couldn't afford treatment? Did they not know where to turn for help?
People are so eager to jump on their soapbox before all the facts are known. But to say a 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD should be put down like a dog or be locked up for life takes a warped mind in itself. This CHILD isn't the only one who needs help.
Is that what our children mean to us? They're on the same level as animals?
This CHILD needs help, for sure. Let's just hope he gets it.
We should ban all knives
BTW Rob, you don't think 10 year olds are capable of killing sprees? Read up on history, or wars like Viet Nam, or civil wars like Africa, and tell me they don't or haven't? Once upon a time 25 was old and 10 year olds hunted and/or protected their tribes/civilizations no differently than an adult does now. So this whole right or wrong theory is a social concept built upon the justifieable and legal premis of determining which killing is acceptable (defense) but another isn't (money to eat), while its obfuscates the truth about the laws of human nature---kill or be killed.
He's just having his teenage moments early. It's totally normal for a kid to stab friends to death because of humiliation.
Who hasn't stabbed the family pet to death when losing in a video game ?
People should know, (if this monster is allowed in mainstream society) and the heck with his privacy issues. Privacy issues are lost forever when you kill someone with a kitchen knife and no reason is good enough. Another child is dead.
I would not let my kids be in the same classroom with him. Can you imagine being his teacher and not knowing this history ???
Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and Glenn back must be lurking close by. I smell the stench of kochbrothers . It smells like there is alot of fertilizer coming out here.
These Fu+k knuckles need a slap on the forehead.
Its bad for the parents to lose a child. Its bad for the parents to have be looking toward the possibility of there child being a murderer.
WE have the a-holes here judge and jury already.
10 YEARS OLD! This kid has a LONG battle in front of him. I hope he understands the consequences of his actions. Now there is a 12 year old who had his whole life in front of him--gone. So sad.
What a horror for both families. This child obviously has had deep psychological/psychiatric problems. I deal with special ed kids and there is simply no easy answer for those with such behavioral issues.
Children are not as bright as we think they are. That is why they need so much guidance.
What a bunch of crap! And you are an educator --
Kids are much smarter than you think. They are educated at a much earlier age in Europe and they seem to know right from wrong at a very early age. I wonder why one never reads about ten year olds killing someone except in the US? You have 300 million people there, we have 500 million here. Sorry, but the ten year old in this article is a loser and will always be.
Your a liar,Europe has way more than 500 million people.And most Europeans don't call themselves Europe.Troll
Jaap-there have been many documented child murders in Europe as well. The savage killing of 2 year old little James Bulger in England by two young boys for one. On top of that, both killers were released when they reached 18. The American bashing is not becoming.
jaap- agree with joe. why do you feel the us is saddled with all the psychos? i believe there are psychos everywhere.
It happens everywhere but your press doesn't report it the way ours does. Just like the priests who molest children are only in the US right? Get a grip on yourself. You people outside of the US need a reality check. These things do happen in your country.
Jaap it's ok to make up your opinion but not to make up your facts.
How many lives are we willing to sacrifice to rehabilitate one child. His rights notwithstanding, the people he meets in the future have a definite right to their own security. How can anyone know that someone like this is even able to be rehabilitated? He's obviously very disturbed and has escalated over the years based on the neighbor's input, the mom's ability to handle him has obviously reached it's end. I would say he spends the rest of his life in some kind of facility.
Sad story! Condolences to the family of the lost child. Question now is this(mother was home at the time of the incident) doing what was she doing as obviously she was not able to control this child? This child should have been more closely supervised.
The kid is 10. Why do you expect that the mother is supposed to keep her eye on him 24/7. He was playing with a friend, do you expect her to follow them around the house to keep an eye on them?
Locking up the knives and other objects that can be used to kill is what a mother should do. And, yes, "keep an eye on him". Because he is 10, don't keep an eye on him? That makes no sense.
Ryan: When the kid has noteworthy mental health issues, the minute she heard a commotion , yes!
I was wondering how far down into the comments I would have to go before I read someone asking about where the mother was.
If you have children, no matter their age, I doubt VERY seriously if you keep your eye on them 24/7. Even if they are infants, you go to the bathroom, you go to sleep, you prepare bottles. No one can possibly keep an eye on a child ALL the time. When a child is 10 and playing with a friend, that is even more unrealistic.
This mother is going through hell. Her child killed another child in her house, with her kitchen knife, with her at home. My prayers go out to all involved in this tragedy, especially the parents of the victim. My he rest in eternal peace.
The kitchen knives, huh? Well what about the forks then, too? And the skillets? Those are heavy, you could hit someone with them. And one time I saw McGuyver tie some string in a door and trip somebody; you should lock up that, too.
Kay Teez: Believe it or not, sometimes mothers are to blame. Ever hear of Munchausen Syndrome? According to the CDC American women kill more of their own children than any other mothers in the industrialized world. There are reasons mothers are often the first suspects in missing child, abuse and murder cases.
@Ryan - as a mother of 8 and 10 year old boys, I don't keep an eye on them all the time, but if I hear one of them in the kitchen I ask what they are doing. I would certainly question them if they were anywhere near my kitchen knives.
While I understand that things happen and you cannot keep a watchful eye on your children 24/7, when your kids have friends over, you should be more vigilant about keeping an open ear tuned to what they are doing.
Sure you can't keep your eye on a kid 24/7 I have two and I will tell you it's absolutely impossible to do so. However, if the mother knew her child was a head case she should have at least done more to protect his guest from him. "Friend" or not that 12 year old's parents will be holding this 10 year old's mother responsible. I believe they should too. Sure she's suffering, that's a lot of pain and YES accidents DO happen. That being said, though. The woman should have had a better handle on her disturbed kid or prohibited him from having other's over for play dates knowing he wasn't right.
@RevSpinnaker - what did that have to do with her comment? How did Munchhausen Syndrome come into this? Random + totally off topic man. Kid killed a kid, Mom did not kill the kid or her kids..Nor is any child missing right now...?
Tuesdays - lame.
RevSpinnaker, what does that have to do with this story??
natedom, I have to honestly say I asked my kids what they were doing in the kitchen as well when they were younger (they are both over 20 now), but they could holler back that they are just getting a drink of water and I would believe them. I would have NO reason to think they are playing with kitchen knives, or that one of their FRIENDS are about to kill them, or vice versa.
This 10-year-old boy is responsible for the death of his friend. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. We can speculate all day on what could have/should have/would have been, but it will not bring that little boy back. I will just continue to pray for everyone involved in this senseless tragedy, and hope others can learn from it.
Seriously? Blaming the mom again? That gets pretty old.
The child obviously has issues, should we foot the burden for his issues for the next several years with no guarantee that he will ever be rehabilitated? I vote no, he took someone else's life in cold blood without compassion. What of the victim's family? What of their loss? The majority of the bleeding hearts here make no mention of the vicitm but rather choose to make the murderer the victim. The mentality of some people these days is quite scary.
I have 8 children -- some of them now adults, and I know how a parent cannot observe each child's every move 24/7. BUT, the mother of the murderer KNEW what kind of abnormal, raging maniac of a child she had. Explosives must be dealt with under highly watchful care. They invited a child over to play. That adds an extra responsibility on the parent that hosts another family's child. Yes, the mother is at fault, too.
@KayTeez - if my kids were to say they were getting a drink, and I heard them closing the cupboard, running the water, or opening and closing the fridge, I would believe them, but if they said they were getting a drink of water and I didn't hear any of those things, or heard a drawer sliding opened and closed, I would go look to see what they were doing. Honestly, my knives are all in wood blocks on the counter, so they would probably be able to get them out of the block without making noise, but I would still expect to hear certain sounds if they were getting a drink. If I had a kid who was prone to temper tantrums, I can only imagine I would be more concerned of them being in the kitchen.
It said he had fits and tantrums not violent episodes...The mother could have no way of knowing he would do something on that level. Assume you are doing some laundry in the other room...sounds like the boys are rough housing like many boys do. There is no way she could have seen that coming from her 10 year old son with NO history of violence.
Dragonhearted
How do you know it was in cold blood?? It doesnt say exactly how or what happend. Get all the fact before you judge so soon.
The Fox news pundits are out again enforce having a freezy . Its like they orgasm over a tradegy. Then they come up with there expert opinion. Thats right folks. Its just opinion of people are not even qualifed to be dog catchers. The funny thing is they apply there f+cked up logic by claiming they are psychologists, teachers, they raised a family in a shoe, and some other cr+pola. We can see that its just tom foolery at its best, poor attempt though.
You wonder why we are in this economic mess. The executives are in a jer+ing frenzy and forget about the economy. If we all could get bail outs, then we could be rich too. When I f+ck up. I just apply to the government for a portion of the 700 billion Tarp and then 27 trillion in secret loans.The rich folks are born into failure and then are bailed out. The whole system is geared to keep the rich p+ces of @!$%# rich.
Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity are now licking each others a-holes silly over this so they can think up something more stupid to stay. How else can you explain how stupid they are?.
It's very nice that the mother "knew how to control him" when he was yelling. But I wonder if she had consulted with his pediatrician about his behavior and was giving him the proper treatment for it.
Don't forget the mom lives in a mobile home. She's probably as psycho as the kid.
The problem is the example set by the family, the neighbors, the media (Video games, television shows, music and music videos glorifying the "Thug Life") and mainly lack of tutoring and supervision by their family. It's always a tragedy when a child dies, doublely so when it's at the hand of another child.
you are an ass don't blame video games for lack of parenting.
He probably stated that pretty poorly but I think he was trying to say that over use of video games is a lack of parenting. But I could be wrong...
Workingpoor:
Marine:
Wow! workingpoor made not one, but two, references to the need for family supervision, yet Marine responds by calling him/her an ass? Seriously?
I believe that video games ARE detrimental to the development of appropriate attitudes in children AND that parents should supervise their children, especially in their selection of video games they're allowed to play...but then, I may be as ass, too. I only know it worked for my kids!
Thanks HadEnough saves me from having to respond.
SteveW-747922
Yes, You are wrong. Parentheses , try reading again.
Surely this child has some profound mental issues, but the culture of violence that we sow in this country sure does not help. We keep feeding the crazy wolf and people keep getting crazier, the main stream media likes to feast on insanity. We don't do articles about good parenting that's too boring, find the freakiest thing you can find and splatter it all over the news. That's why I stopped watching True TV I'm tired of watching how stupid and crazy people are, I try now to find more positive stories. Slasher films, murders, mayhem we have become a society that loves violence, why does this surprise anybody when children kill?. When I was a child the majority of children had two parents, we had censorship on TV and the movies and we didn't have this culture of violence that kids are growing up with today. We had shows Like Father Knows Best, Leave It To Beaver, My Three Sons, The Donna Reed Show, The Dick Van Dyke Show and of course I love Lucy. Horror films were Frankenstein, The Wolfman, Dracula and the Invisible man not slasher films filed with unspeakable gore and violence. We didn't have reality TV or Real TV focusing on every depravity the human mind can dream up. Children were allowed to be children and not pushed to be sex pots like you have with Toddlers and Tiaras. We didn't social networks or You Tube and the media didn't glorify violence like it does today in the name of freedom of speech. Back then we realized that freedom did not mean irresponsible and we had the freedom to believe in God, justice, right and wrong.
There were still many things wrong in the country but we were working to fix them and build a nation under God, indivisible with Liberty and justice for all. Unfortunately we have lost our way, we now have become a divided nation, it is no longer we the people but me the people. We now rather build greedy empires then a land of opportunity. Our leaders have sold out our nation and sold out their souls for their own self gain and the greed of a few. We are feeding our children selfishness, greed and violence then act so shocked when they fulfill the legacy we have given them. Are we really the stupid as a people or are we just that much into denial of what we have sowed.
mark Although I agree with you to a degree, we have to remember this same arguement was used in the 50's against comic books because at that time they were destroying american youth
That sort of rebuttal always amuses me, because the implication is that the people who were concerned were not just wrong, but silly.
But they weren't, were they? Comic books seem totally innocuous in today's world, but we didn't wake up one day and go from a society that would not tolerate public filth to one that feeds on depravity. It's one step at a time down a slippery slope, and some folks were wise enough to realize that the violence glorified in comic books was sending an unhealthy message to young children.
They were made fun of then, just as people who speak against violence on TV and in movies are mocked today.
Mark-3140636 - I agree with you totally. I completely do not understand how people can pay good money to watch films like "Saw" and "Final Destination", not to mention gore on the major networks ("CSI") and on cable ("Dexter"). Video games are gory, not cute like they used to be. We have become completely desensitized to violence and death.
I refuse to watch anything that shows killing (even so-called 'action' films). I go to the movies to be entertained, not to have to keep my eyes closed because there is so much violence. I long for the days when things were much simpler. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever go back there. We have already turned a very ugly corner.
As long as there has been history, there have been murderers. The vast majority of people who go to horror movies or play violent video games do not become murderers.
There are some children who enjoy hurting and killing animals - the vast majority don't enjoy it. This source of joy doesn't come from video games or movies, but rather from some dark internalized place. Maybe it is from lack of parenting?
Unfortunately, a few children with these beliefs will continue to become murderers. I believe that we hear more about them because there are more people in the world and because the media makes everyone aware of them.
Someone so young and this unhinged may have been severely spoiled by the parent, but will strike out against others who refuse to cater to him or her. She should have had him on a leash if she's the only one capable enough to control his outbursts.
i agree with armurray. i like where mark is coming from, but there WERE murders back in the day. we just didn't hear about it.
I know this type of behavior is often attributed to media violence and poor social environment of one sort or another. However, what needs to be included in the discussion is the possible role of man made toxins which saturates our technologically advanced environment. These substances can have a profound effect on human development especially when the fetus is exposed. In addition, not all children are exposed equally or at the crucial times of development. Therefore, until proven otherwise, one cannot logically conclude that it is nature or some other reason just because the vast majority of kids don't exhibit this same type of behavior.
Therefore, before I start labeling the child as some kind of severe social deviant, especially by reason of nature, I am going to advocate patience and further study. Until then, as much as my anger and sadness at such a tradgedy inclines me to want this kid treated as an adult and, tried, convicted and incarcerated for the rest of his life, I would have to make the assumption that the kid, in a different environment, would have been quite different and, therefore, he deserves our compassion.
My sincerest condolances to the parents of the child who was killed. Let us hope that this tradgedy will encourage actions that will lessen the likelyhood of this happening again. And, in so doing, his death will not have been in vain.
I agree with you The Plain Truth NC media violence I am sure is not the only cause of the violence we see with our young people today but I do think it has a great impact. Unfortunately the problem with mental illness is that it doesn't show up as a big spot on your head. Because you just can't see it for what it is you get all this prejudice, ignorance and misunderstanding about it. The sad thing is that probably in most cases it is very manageable with a little assistance. Unfortunately at this period in time we as a people and a country would rather build greedy empires rather then a nation by the people for the people. You will have these problems because our nation supports serving a select few making a lot of money not healing the sick. We do need extensive studies and medical help, unfortunately the government would rather spend our children's future on foreign wars, foreign aid and tax breaks for the wealthiest, many who are making fortunes on these wars and imperialist business practices. Mean while not only are our men and women of our armed forces sacrificing their lives, many are coming home with devastating physical and mental injuries that will require a lifetime of care that no one will want to pay for. Greed is taking the American dream and killing it, this is just the beginning I fear the worst is yet to come.
It’s not just murder armurray we have and epidemic and culture of violence in this country, you see it everyday in the media with bullying, child abuse and an array of so many other abuses. Life does not carry the same value it had when I was growing up or maybe I was just too young and naive to notice.
@KayTeez - I LOVE Dexter!
Jeri - There has been a great deal more going on in our society than the advent comic books, or of video games. But truthfully, murders committed out of impulse have always been with us, and children and teenagers have always had trouble with impulse control.
Psychology studies have shown that the minds of children and teenagers do not react the same as the minds of mature adults.
I would also point out that the comic books of my childhood, while not particularly high in intellectual content, did not glorify violence so much as justice meted out by people dressed in skintight suits. Silly stuff, but hardly training manual for becoming a murderer. I read them. So did many of my friends. None of us grew up to be axe murderers. None of us murdered anybody with a kitchen knife.
Wake up people. Kids as young as 4/5 sit for sometimes hours at a time playing video games and watching cartoons filled with so much murder and mayhem. Some are even allowed to watch truly violent movies with family and friends. The poor beaten, battered and killed victoms just jump up and are ready to "play" again. The line between" fiction" and "reality" can be difficult for a child not to cross. My heart goes out to the family of the 12 year old and to the 10 year old who will have to live his life with the "reality" of what he has done
Anne, there is only a point to which you can blame child violence on videos and games. My children grew up loving and playing these games, but they were also taught that physical violence is barbaric. And the number one lesson they were taught very simply was if you inflict pain, it can be inflicted upon you as well. Something as simple as one child biting another. When we were very young children, if a child bit another child, the parent would bite that child to demonstrate that it hurt. Very young children, regardless of their mental status, can be taught, if adults take the time to do so. Sometimes a parent has to stand up and be strong instead of giving in to what they see as a troubled child. Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind. It is mainly laziness in society that causes these children to be this way, because today's society believes that the answer to everything is a pill. If we are going to educate, we need to reincorporate discipline into that education. Let's face it, a simple time out is not always enough.
please reality ? the kid will be a sociopath after the test him that means he wont care about what he did
I totally agree Anne...he sure knew WHERE to plunge that knife...right? Shame! And sad. Excellent point Proud!
That is where the parenting should have came in. If you sit and watch an episode of CSI (or any other adult drama) and your child is watching, what are they learning?? Their little minds are busy and you don't even know it. What about that Secret Life of the American Teenager, or 2 1/2 Men? What do they get out of watching "adult" shows like this?
Music with it's "suggestive" lyrics. My jaw dropped when that little girl was singing Nicki Minaj! That mother was proud??? Hi, here is my little princess singing about panties dropping. She may not understand it now, but it becomes a "norm". Then in their minds they think it is ok to be promiscuous. Would the parent know that was what they were thinking?
Again, it falls on the parenting. There are a lot of evils out there, but not enough parents to actually take the time to teach morals and values or the difference between right and wrong. The mother, maybe did what she could have to the best she knew how. But, when she saw things getting out of hand, she should have gotten help. If she had focused more on giving him a moral compass, do you think this might have been avoided?
Years ago, I was employed by the parents of an elementary-school boy-- go to the house before school let out and be his "whatever" after he got home. One day, he got into an over-head cabinet and came out with some food. What I didn't catch was what else he had in his hand-- matches. He went outside and I thought that it was a funny place for him to eat snacks. I could move back then, so I went to the door. Boy did I move then-- he was sitting under a tree playing with matches. Hadn't gotten a fire started-- then after I got to where he was he found out he couldn't start a fire without matches.
I learned the other day that he lives in the neighboring town, married, has a daughter. I hope the daughter is not like her father was when he was of school age!
Prosecute him as an adult.
first of all the kid used a weapon, he stabbed another person, and killed that person. this shows he knows how to hurt another human. If he has problems, why didn't the school spot this? why didn't his mother spot this, counselor, anybody, where's the supervision? Do we just wait until a tragedy, like this happens. This is getting out of hand, we keep treating these kids to easy. Sorry for the other family loss, now we'll miss out on a great person. I'm having trouble with the statement that if you tapped him on the shoulder he would go into a rage. It's time to start making some decisions on the aggressive kids, even if they have a learning disability. It's almost like a free ride, my kid has a learning disability, so please let him go Mr. police man. I also don't think this would be the first time the cops have been involved with this kid. Now two families are in for a terrible time. I guess the attacker will be locked up now. maybe somebody could have caught this terrible thing before it happened.
Don't blame the schools. Your children come to be educated, nothing more,nothing less.
I agree there Raymond, and parents place much too much responsibility on schools. Most of a child's societal skills need to be taught at home before the child even begins school. This is the real problem. If they were more stern with these children before they reached this point, the teachers would most certainly not have all of the problems they must contend with. The troubled children today are often too sheltered. Any child, including special needs children, can and should be taught societal skills, instead of always being pitied.
Children go to school to be socialized as well as educated. Even if you wanted to, you couldn't separate a child's education into boxes that way. Children spend most of their waking day at school, it is where they learn to interact with others and where they learn how the world works.
Don't blame the schools. Your children come to be educated, nothing more,nothing less.
Yes, I agree with you, but what are the kids when they go to school? They are the result of the parents. If the parents don't teach the kids at home, good behavior, are they expecting them to learn that in school? The teachers are there to teach curriculum, not morality. Teachers can't be to blame for a student's behavioral issues, that is the parent's responsibility!
West Virginian may have something there. *Centuries* ago, when I was in school, I was astonished by the things some of my contemporaries got away with. I was a younger child of older parents, many of them were the older child of younger parents.
I knew that if I screwed up, I'd either be punished by them or, if it were something big, my mother would call the cops herself-which she did to my older sister one time. It's the reason I wasn't sexually active during my school years; because I knew my mom would beat the snot out of me. But the current generations of parents & grandparents seem to think they must give their children everything, because that's what they learned from their parents. Now that attitude has come home to roost, because this generation cannot teach what they don't know. They were handed everything with no consequences and no discipline, so they end up perpetuating that belief and lifestyle. My discipline started long before I got into the public schools, although they had a major influence too.
My heart breaks for these two mothers and what they'll endure for the rest of their lives. That being said, our society needs to understand that, for whatever reason, some children are born with something wrong in their hard-wiring. Nature, nurture, a little of both, nobody seems to know, but this boy had apparently demonstrated that there was something wrong with his wiring, and he is not one who should be left out of a structured environment. There is very little evidence that the powers that be will ever be able to "fix" him. If it's in his wiring, he's broken. As much as it hurts to admit, some things just can't be fixed. Since this is a child, we can't just throw him in a dumpster like we would an old kitchen blender, but this boy probably will end up spending his life institutionalized, which would be best for him and best for society.
My blessings and prayers to both families. My heart just aches for your plight. Be strong.
Let's ban knives. Let the argument begin as to why knives shouldn't be banned but guns should be when they both kill whether in the hands of a person (either mentally stable or mentally unstable) who should legally have a weapon or not.
Just saying I'm a responsible adult that owns a firearm; I'm just waiting for the anti-gun nuts to come out and start saying ban knives or we need stricter knife laws.
P.S. My condolences to the family of the 12 year old who lost his life.
Citizen I also own severl guns but come on be real there is major difference between a kitchen knife and a 357. I also happen to support strict gun regulation.
Citizen: I'd rather ban kids... Thank goodness for animals. Much easier to raise and the only emotional downtime with an animal is when they die.
Neko Samurai.... you sir are a troll of the first magnitude.
You own about as many firearms as I own tutu's... and I can assure you that I own absolutely NO tutu's.
I love stupid people like you !!!!! GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE !!!!!!! the gun is just a tool cave me used sticks and stones so should we ban them to mid evil knights used swords should we ban them? i guess we should ban bows and arrows also !!! dumb ass
Well aren't we little Mister Superior this morning? LOL! Reliance on guns is for the weak. And your totally stale NRA arguments do not reflect any high intelligence going on in that brain!
Reliance on guns is for the weak?!?! First off, I don't belong to the NRA. Second, are you a fool or an idiot?
voxrationis doesn't even believe in God or Truth or anything of meaning its your typical Liberal who thinks thier own rose colored belief in oneself will save them.
Liberals are weak minded and thus sling mud due to no self worth. They don't believe in guns since they are too scared to ever use one even if it would costs the life of a loved one.
Take from the rich, the wealthy , the armed so they can feel better about thier life. Nothing like bringing the USA down to the lowest denominator. At this rate Voxrationis and thier friends will have the terrorist running the country.
Throw the kid in the shredder. He doesn't deserve to live and will be someone that taxpayers will have to house and support for the rest of his life. Plus, once he grows up, he will be a much more lethal weapon than he is now. And, he already has a taste for killing. Second time is easier.
Suggest everyone go read Karr-Morse and Wiley's book "Ghosts from the Nursery" about all the many different genetic, environmental, and cultural factors that go into producing violent children and adults. From a variety of genetic problems to mothers and fathers who drink, to exposure to tobacco smoke, labor/delivery drugs, formula, being left alone to cry oneself to sleep, traumatic brain injuries, physical/sexual/emotional abuse, malnutrition, parents with drug problems or mental health issues, absent fathers . . . . . the list goes on and on and on. Every child killer has had multiple adverse childhood experiences that contribute to their problems. A child's personality is pretty much determined by the age of 2-3 years (not 8 as stated above). Especially telling is the description of this child as having a hair-trigger temper -- this is the classic sign of a child who is permanently on alert, with high levels of cortisol, the stress hormone, in his blood stream, and who perceives threats from every side even when there is no real threat, and who responds all out of proportion with anger and violence to even the slightest insult or unintended bump. There is no way to rehabilitate children whose brains and physiology have been permanently damaged by what happened to them between conception and two years of age. The ONLY solution is prevention -- prevent these adverse experiences from happening to children through culture-wide change in how we view and treat children, and how we take care of our own bodies before and during pregnancy.
Kathy, those are all pretty excuses, but for those of us who have experienced most of them, but have still grown into responsible adults, they just don't wash. You can read all of the books you want and live your life in a bubble, but if you don't teach your child social skills in the very beginning, you are doomed to some sort of mishap. It is the pity that is meted out to children that causes them to feel that anything they do is justified. What you are saying sounds like the old adage about a woman violated," she was asking for it." Its just excuses. And fyi, not all child molesters were molested children. It is all of the pity and subjection to being victim that causes these children to believe that anything they do will be justified. The real problem is too much pity. All children need to be taught one simple concept. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Kathy..
Have you ever read a book about what effect pseudo-psycho intellectuals, yourself for example, might have on kids growing up today?
I played Cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers while growing up. I was bullied in school, and fixed that problem myself. I didn't need to hide behind mommy and daddy or the "teachers". I had toy guns, "REAL" bows and arrows, plastic and real knives, and a plethora of toys that people today would cringe at.
Maybe if we let kids be kids, learn some lessons the hard way, stop trying to drug them into behaviors we want them to have, stop trying to make every 5 year old a politically correct cop in the playground, maybe, just maybe we'll find a generation of STABLE adults compared to the ranting raving lunatics we endure today.
Very well said. If more people actually thought of the result of having sex, then maybe they would be more careful.
I see many future stories about the 10 year old kid now grown up and killing again. This story is sad in its indictment on society and that one has been lost a so young an age. Yes, rehabilitation may be possible, but the statistical chances stand against the prognosis of such...
Paul794: My thoughts exactly. Sadly, there are probably a lot more victims in this darling's path over the next many years.
Since we are speculating on why this child had mental/behavior problems, I will add something to think about.
With all the genetically modified foods, (seeds), and growth hormones given to meat products that we eat, is it not possible that these things are affecting our children's developing bodies/minds?
Steroids used by athletes et al, are illegal because of side affects but yet it is ok to use them in raising beef, poultry, and pork products.
Many steriods, pestisides, and fertilizers are synthetic. Just a thought
shut up you bleeding heart P#^sy
moronine, I am not a bleeding heart pussy you rear echelon supply twit. I gave something for people to think about and you with your infantile mind have to show your ignorance and stupidity.
Another thing moronine, I said nothing to the affect that this child should not be punished. I am giving another thought as to why children today are being violent in conjunction with others thoughts.
Ron:
You're talking to a troll - a real Marine would have to pass intelligence tests!
Of course, the food industry denies it vigorously, but I think a lot of the health problems that have become so prevalent are related to all of the additives in food.
No idea (I'm not a scientist and don't play one on TV) of what psychological effects they might have. But physical effects -- lots of them.
Maybe the "Marine" is really a Marine, but in actuality a latrine lawyer.
It's kind of difficult to comment on this since I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Based on what is in the article isn't easy either. They were best friends, so what triggered the action?
I can't believe all the psychobabble that is appearing here, "child is a poor innocent, probably mistreated, cannot use judgement at that age" - everything except the old fashioned concept of holding someone responsible for their own actions. Couple that with a healthy dose of punishment for inappropriate actions, and you could stop this insanity. But it would take stopping the insanity of "experts" who have gotten us where we are now. How much genius does it take to see that some particular course or action is not producing good results? Apparently more than our child psychologists, school boards and government have!
WychDoctor George, most of today's child psychologists, school boards and so called "experts" are simply arm chair quarterbacks who have no children or no real concept of raising them. All they know is what they read from books, written by other arm chair quarterbacks who have no real concept. I agree with you totally. The answer is that dose of punishment. As a molested, self counseled child, I was able to adjust much better than one that is counseled. I grew up without pity, and learned not to do to others what you don't like being done to you. And yes, many times during my younger years I had my backside dusted. Had a few stripes from a switch and a few welts from a belt. And a very good set of parents for which I'm grateful. These kids would be much better off with a little more discipline and a lot less pity.
Hey, West Virginian, from one to another, can I buy you a glass of orange juice? My wife (an ex-social worker) and I have a running battle - coddling vs disciplining. That is why you need two parents, to keep both sides in balance - but when we throw the government and "experts" in, the old fashioned common sense approach gets over-run. God help us with what we are going to have in the next 20 years - 20-40 year old babies, with all kinds of self esteem and entitlement feelings, but no sense of responsibility or restraint!
How come they hadn't gotten him help before? They knew he has a social problem (aka dangerous). They will evaluate him until he is 18 and then turn him loose where he can continue his social problems on the general public. When are the do gooders going to admit that there are some people out there that cannot be rehabilitated.
How do you know that the mother hadn't tried to get help for her son?
Further more, the witnesses said the mother did right in the way she brought up her son. A lot of kids have tantrums about things that they can't cope with and they are not "killers." I've seen younger kids send a fist into a friends face for little or nothing, if they don't get their way, but within hours act as if nothing happed and are best of friends again.
When she saw that her methods weren't working, she should have sought help! It is obvious she didn't otherwise this situation could have been avoided. People let their kids run off the handle when they are little and then when they are older, just expect that they should know not to throw tantrums and deal with it by force. You have to set the foundation. Be a parent when they are toddlers and that would avoid behavioral problems later, if you can't control them, get help. Not by drugs. Our society is willing to put a label a prescription to everything. They didn't have all this crap back in the days of our grand parents and before, and there wasn't as much of issues then. We can survive without meds!
Mom's doing the best she can, where's Dad? Throw out the TV's, radios, video games. Hard work, and responsibility would go a long way. Children are not your friends, they are your children, raise them.
That's what I want to know: Where' the father? One of the reasons why so many children don't have fathers is because too many women are all too willing to settle for so very little. Many of them settle for partners who they know are irresponsible. I was a classroom teacher and I saw this all the time.
My condolences to both families and may God have mercy on the accused.
Peace.
Really Missy? Is that the reason? Give me a break, Life happens and it doesn't always go as planned. There could be any number of reasons that dad isn't in the home...doesn't mean he doesn't have visitations or is a dead beat father. Doesn't mean she chose her man irresponsibly. and being a single parrent also doesn't mean you can't raise a perfectly healthy minded and good child.
I know that I am going to be torn apart...But here it goes....I have dealt with problem children for almost 40 years now, and have never seen as bad as it is today.
These are in many cases "broken" children....They come from homes that have MASSIVE problems...You can fill in the blanks.....I have encountered children that cannot speak, act like wild animals, and shouldn't be in society....That is the basic fact of it all, since it is almost impossible to remove a child from his mother/parent.....Their mothers hadlarge drug and alcohol problems, and were constantly "stoned" while the baby was developing....Don't really know what the answer is, but some of these children spend all of their time playing violent video games, and in many cases watch their parents/parent solve problems with violence......Add it all up, and you have a young Sociopath.
This child isn't the problem, our "do whatever we want" society is to blame.
thank you my god if parents gave a @!$%# and every now and then told the kids no and stop this time out @!$%# and just whoop ass a little like in my day you would not have 12-13 year old kids telling his mother to shut the F up bitch and buy me the 165.00 shoes i want and she bought them i saw this at the mall yesterday its to days mom and dad that lets little junior off with a stern talking to instead of a slap on the ass that's the problem
Moronine, there is a difference between corporal punishment and abuse. It's clear that you are an abuser.
Marine might be a little crass in his description Ron, but to an extent he's right. And I agree with you. There's a difference between corporal punishment and abuse. But today it seems it goes from one extreme to the other. If parents would learn to discipline with patience, much of this would not be happening. It is the excuses that are being made for kids and all the giving in that makes them the way they are. Society is in fact, becoming too soft. Let's face it. Sometimes a simple time out just isn't enough and things like this are the consequences.
Proud, I agree with you that we go from one extreme to another. Personally I think time outs are bullsh!t. Moronine was not being crass, he was being condescending.
I have to disagree with all of you about time-outs being ineffective, or that the only way to raise well-behaved children is with physical punishment. I have two boys, they are 8 and 10 years old, neither of them have ever been spanked, they have each been tapped on the mouth once, at around 9 months, for biting. They are very well behaved, in fact, their teachers have all told me, if all their students were as well behaved as my children, their jobs would be a lot easier. Time outs, when children are 3 and 4, and taking away privileges and grounding when they get older can work, so long as you stand by the grounding.
The most important thing when raising children is to know they understand rules at a very young age and to be consistent with your rules. The problems come in when you tell your child one thing one day, then contradict yourself another day. If children know that some rules won't be enforced, there is no reason for them to believe any rules will be enforced.
natedom I like to hear from you when your boys get in their teens. I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening. lol I know from experience I had one of the best behaived kids around when he was young but when he gets around other teenage kids everything will change.
Ron::: Yes, there is a difference between corporal punishment and abuse, but a good spanking never hurt anyone. Have you ever noticed what shape the hand is in when you cup it? It is in the shape to go over a brat's butt. Parents don't realize that God made the hand to fit over a brat's butt-- and they don't use applied psychology any more.
Sure, some people use too much applied psychology but a little never did harm any kid. But now days, the parent gets turned in if they refuse to do everything a kid says. Thank God my niece turned out to be a good gal-- I did spank her one time when she dashed into the street by herself. She never did that again. My sis (not the mother of the child) told me that I should have waited until I got home to do it, but she might not have remembered what she did. Pop her a good one there in front of God and all those people and she connected the two actions. Dash into the street and get a hand applied to the rear.
@Jerry1970 - can you please explain to me how spanking my children when they were young, although timeouts and groundings have worked are going to translate into them being better behaved teenagers? My 10 year old already stands over 5 feet tall and my 8 year old is 4'10". If they follow the growth pattern of their cousin (which I can only assume they will continue to do) they will be about 6' tall when they are 13 or 14, I really don't think at that point in time, spanking is going to do a heck of a lot of good.
As for your concern over them being around other teenagers, you mean as opposed to the brats they are around already? Some of the kids in our old neighborhood (a large part of why we moved) were allowed to run rampant in Kindergarten, had no rules or boundaries and had absolutely no idea how to interact with others. My kids response to these kids was always to tell them they needed to be nice and play by the rules or they had to leave. I can't count the number of times my kids were at the play ground and told other kids parents they shouldn't allow their kids to play like they were (climbing up the slide, throwing things, pushing kids) because someone was going to get hurt. It is always great to see a parents face when a five year old essentially tells them they aren't being a good parent.
I can't say anything about this. It's to sad. Sorry for boyh parents.