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Miranda Leitsinger/msnbc.com
Members of the Occupy movement from North Carolina ventured to Washington, D.C., for Occupy Congress. Front row left to right: Moises Serrano, Giovanna Hurtado, Amanda Porter-Cox. Back row left to right: William Murphy, Jon Ashley, Tony Ndege
For Occupy protester Jon Ashley from North Carolina, meeting with the staff of his U.S. senator on Tuesday produced nearly the same results as an earlier letter he had written to her: A “form response.”
Ashley was one of nine Occupy Congress protesters from North Carolina who met with the staff of Sen. Kay Hagan, D-N.C., on Tuesday morning to communicate their concerns about what they see as the most important issues facing the country.
Several of the protesters described the meeting as underwhelming, like receiving a form letter in person.
"I've written letters to congressmen and senators before you usually just get a form letter back from one of (their) staffers," said Ashley, a 27-year-old record engineer and producer. "I realize that if you drive here from another state, you get a form response from one of (their) staffers."
"He didn't seem to be knowledgeable about any of the legislation that was of concern to us," he added.
"Very uninformed," interjected Giovanna Hurtado, a coordinator and activist with El Cambio, a group dedicated to helping undocumented students get education that is part of the loose Occupy confederation. "And everything was not his topic."
Ashley said the staffer who did most of the speaking -- an economic policy adviser who was one of three Hagan staffers who met with the Occupy protesters -- was unable to respond to a question about her "no" vote on the so-called Udall Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act.( The amendment, introduced by Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., would have forbade the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens accused of being terrorists, but it was rejected by the Senate in November.)
He replied, "That's not my area of expertise" and said a foreign policy staffer would have to handle it, Ashley said. "That could be just him deflecting ... It would be shocking to me to believe that Hagan's staff, for a senator, to be that ignorant of what essentially she's voted on."
In a statement to msnbc.com, Hagan’s communications director, Mary Hanley, defended the reception of the protesters.
"Since entering the Senate, Senator Hagan has made it a priority to ensure the voices of North Carolinians are heard in Washington," she said. "When North Carolinians contact her offices in North Carolina and Washington, D.C., and meet with members of her staff, it ensures that concerns from across the state reach her desk. She shares the frustration many North Carolinians feel given our stagnant economy and unacceptable unemployment rates. That's why she was a strong supporter of the President's American Jobs Act, backed Richard Cordray to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and advocate for North Carolina consumers, and is fighting to fix No Child Left Behind and ensure all our students receive a quality education."
A reporter who was invited by the group to join the meeting was not allowed to attend. A press staffer said it was their policy not to allow media into staff meetings with constituents.
One of the protesters also live streamed video of the meeting over the Internet, however.
Tony Ndege, a 33-year-old from Occupy Winston-Salem who set up the meeting, said the staff had seemed to anticipate the meeting would generate controversy. But he said the Occupy movement isn't just about "people who want to take on the establishment. A lot of us do, but that's not the whole thing. We have some deep issues here, and the reason why people are demonstrating is because that's the only way we can be heard."
Hurtado said she asked the staff about the possibility of getting legislation regarding in-state tuition for undocumented students. They were instructed to write a letter and told that the office would respond, she said.
"I kind of felt like we were given the runaround basically,” said Amanda Porter-Cox, a 24-year-old graduate student in education who asked about the senator's votes in that area, specifically in stopping budget cuts to schools and helping teachers find work. She noted the staffer had said some things about what work Hagan had done, but she still felt as if it was "almost like they didn't want to answer our questions."
"These are people who are used to more of the game of politics as opposed to deeper, systemic politics discussion ... on an ongoing basis," Ndege noted. "I think that was really what it was, the fact that they are used to a different kind of conversation and getting messages across in a different way."
While the group that attended the meeting said they came away mostly disappointed, Ndege hinted at a silver lining.
"Either way, I think it's one of those issues where action creates opportunity, even if you think it might not be an opportunity right now, you never know how it's going to turn out."
Read previous posts on the protest:
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That is why Congress has million dollar budgets for their well trained staff!
What a bunch of jerks! Get a job and stop complaining. What do you think we are doing for a living??? We work!
I know that is a new concept for you lazy bums, but, it works.
I'm sure they'd like to get a job that pays. They know what you do not-the ratio of job seekers to available jobs is about 4:1. So, they are working unpaid on behalf of all Americans. Seems to me they deserve plaudits rather than raspberries. If they were lazy, they'd be sitting at home in front of the TV or the computer.
A bunch of jerks? For trying to promote change to a broken and dysfunctional system on behalf of all Americans? If ignorance really is bliss then you must be one of the happiest mother@!$%#ers alive.
Congressmen don't know your issues because they are only concerned about the issues from the people who give them millions of dollars to vote their way. You didn't know that?
This just in from the city of Washington DC: "The feeling is mutual."
If you want to talk to the man (or in this case, the woman), you'd better be bringing a nice big check. Sad but true.
Wonder why there are so many whiners complaining to have their votes bought with "free" handouts?
Is Obama the 'food stamp president'?
"food stamp rolls have swelled more under Obama's tenure than under his recent predecessors. Also, his 2009 Recovery Act allowed even more people to sign up.
The number of people in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program has soared to an average 44.7 million in fiscal 2011, up 33% from fiscal 2009. Obama's stimulus act made it easier for childless, jobless adults to qualify for the program and increased the monthly benefit by about 15% through 2013."
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/news/economy/obama_food_stamps/index.htm?source=cnn_bin
I thought OWS died with 2011, give it up MSNObama.
..Are these guy's still around?, I thought they went away a long time ago.
pjam - do you have any clue?
The question is why are so many unemployed, on food stamps, supplemental nutrition programs and other support programs?
The Obama Administration inherited a collapsing economy brought about by the massive, unconsienable failures of the G W Bush Administration. The worst financial collapse of the American economy since the horrific depression.
The Obama Administration halted the financial collapse and is bringing the national economy back from a major calamity. If the publicans in the house and senate would have made an effort to work together with the democrats we could be expiriencing a much more viable recovery.
The reason for the tremendous increase in the need for food stamp assistance and support programs, lies squarley with the horrendously failed Republican G W Bush Administration, if you can not recognize that fact you are either blind or in a severe mental denial!
More power to the kids. Actions do create opportunities... much respect to those who act!
@Pjam
What a senseless irrelevant post. If you don't like Obama, don't vote for him but keep your Rush implanted ideological drivel to yourself.
mhemjay, why don't you start by taking your own advice !!!!
job seekers per opening 4:1, you wish! that would mean the 6+" stack of applications filled out on the HR's desk for every 1 opening is? thats another reason why employers NOOW are useing temp agencys, it saves them time trying to find qualified applicants.
then if you are talking people actually SKILLED in that trade they are applying for, that number is still greater than 4:1 per opening.
I've contacted Senator Hagen on many different issues to get her position and have never received more than a computer generated reply that says nothing about my concerns. Next time she comes up for election I'm voting for whoever is running against her.
I started temping in 1969 in Atlanta - New York - Chicago. Great. Few knew about temping so I had great assignments. Then Nixon kept siphoning off the taxes to continue Vietnam and temp business grew. I actually temped enough to earn a week's paid vacation. Yeah. Then Carter had an employment and education program (CETA) and you could actually work. Then Reaganomics hit like a black plague. PhD's were going for $4 jobs. That was about the only way you could work at all. And mostly part time. This is not new to America - this level of unemployment. What is new is not having a Democratic Congress able to pass a bill to create jobs by helping business.
Actually, the seeds of this collapse were sown in the Clinton administration,
Actually, the seeds of this collapse were sown in the Reagan administration!
Actually, the seeds of this collapse were sown in corrupting influence of $$ on politicians. Until that is regulated not much changes and the unproductive one sided "you did it" mentality shown here continues. Congress under Reagan (who deregulated some) and congress under Clinton (who deregulated even more) administration and then it really accelerated with the likes of Barney Frank (now leaving his seat open :), Chris Dodd, Richard Shelby taking $$ from those whom they regulate or pushing a social agenda thru Wall Street. Gov't, e.g. FHA (actually follows guidelines, which) can be responsibly expanded for those social purposes! The Dem/Rep partisan here just buys into the problem, NOT a solution. And to the occupier who wonders why she is undocumented - it is because you are undocumented (why is that hard to understand?).
What were they expecting? Both parties are 100% owned by big business and international capital. Last thing a politician wants is to upset his or her sponsors.
re: benefits for "undocumented" (illegal) students - More Liberals looking for a hand out...
It took the British 75 years to abolish slavery. The movement was started by a group of British COLLEGE students.... Slavery was the #1 business worldwide at the time! It should be obvious that it took more than a life time.
AGAIN, more power to those who act on their passion. You viners should be ashamed of yourself... got an issue with undocumented people, then go do something about it. I am certain these were called with much worse things than you haters have posted. It would be interesting if you guys would live longer because you be workin on my plantations... heck, it is good, because we'll keep you moving all the time... lol....
Ah yes hanseat,
Just shut up and comply right?
You are free to do what we tell you to do. Seems to be the government's stance.
papag-3094648
A bunch of jerks? For trying to promote change to a broken and dysfunctional system on behalf of all Americans? If ignorance really is bliss then you must be one of the happiest mother@!$%#ers alive.
Yeah, the 5,000,000 + worth of damage in Oakland is a helluva way to fix the system, basically saying @!$%# you taxpayer we're gonna play and you're gonna pay.
in state tuition for undocumented immigrants? are you effin' serious?
What a hoot. Whether or not a specific state allows in-state tuition is not even a federal issue. They need to take that up with their state legislators and governor. The last of knowledge of the OWS group is showing.
the sense of entitlement of OWS just continues to baffle me... in state tuition for undocumented immigrants when legal American citizens who are residents of other states don't even get that? I wish my generation wasn't so entitled!
I find it adorable that the two of you (and, having perused the other comments below, everyone else for that matter) are so adept at completely missing the point of this article.
And MSNBC has given these folks their day in the sun. Creating news where none exists. Undocumented means illegal, period. Why have they not been taken into custody? They are thumbing their noses at the laws of this country. That should be the story here.
As opposed to a Congressional staff member who couldn't explain why their boss opted to vote against a bill amendment that would've prevented the government from indefinitely detaining those legal citizens you seem to care so much for?
Do we simply turn a blind eye to encroaching - and tyrannical - federal expansion when an opportunity to rail against those who come here hoping for a better life presents itself? Is that the sort of people we've become?
@Anthony Cali....you r wise beyond your years to know that ENTITLEMENT is EXACTLY the problem.
Funny. And all this time I thought it was the disinterest in Washington shown by the previous generations that's allowed the government to run amuck for the past 35 years. Clearly it's the fault of the young and inexperienced; my mistake.
See? Isn't this fun? Playing the blame game while beating around the bush?
Peter17
What a hoot. Whether or not a specific state allows in-state tuition is not even a federal issue. They need to take that up with their state legislators and governor. The last of knowledge of the OWS group is showing.
That's why they were talking to THEIR STATE SENATOR. do you even bother to read before passing on your ignorance to the rest of us? or did you just see "in state tuition for immigrants" and start crafting your diatribe without bothering to take in any more of the article?
Anthony California
the sense of entitlement of OWS just continues to baffle me... in state tuition for undocumented immigrants when legal American citizens who are residents of other states don't even get that? I wish my generation wasn't so entitled!
More down right ignorance... so it is "entitlement" to want to give new immigrants who come to our states and follow the rules and get their legitimate citizenship a leg-up in state tuition costs?
in general I agree with ed3891, it is amazing to me how all of you seem to 100% miss the ENTIRE POINT of this article. Furthermore, it sounds like most of you are content to just sit there and regurgitate Faux News talking points without even bothering to read the entire text. In the future, do us all a favor and keep your talking points to yourselves - if I wanted to hear Faux News spout their lies, I would TUNE INTO FAUX NEWS.
now on to the point of this article - when OWS, many people (including, I'm sure, some of you very trolls who have posted here) whined and complained about how much scum they were, and how they were just entitled youth who didn't want to work and wanted everything handed to them. I am so sick of hearing this crap; many of us young people cannot figure out how you all could be watching things unfold and come to that conclusion, unless you get all of your news from Faux. OWS was constantly criticized as not presenting a coherent "list" of ideas, and not seeking to engage the current political system to get their changes. so what this article demonstrates is that OWS heard, and are trying to engage our politicians. and they are being given the runaround, just like this entire country is being given the runaround, by our politicans... 21st century American Royalty. Our forefathers came to this country for religious freedom and to escape monarchies centuries ago, wouldn't they be rolling in their graves to see how things are now!
Ed, I abhor the new law that Obama signed regarding detaining American citizens indefinitely. When Obama signed it, he said he would never use that law. I ask, then why the hell sign it? The two undocumented ones are not citizens and that law has no effect on them. I'm all for immigrants coming into this country looking for a better life, but when they are here illegally, that makes them criminals. Leadership that picks and chooses which of its laws it wants to enforce and which to ignore is the real problem here. Bush was guilty of that and now Obama is too. I also ask, what kind of a country have we become?
Scott, you are the confused one. The undocumented folks don't have any government representation as it should be. And undocumented immigrants that come to any of our states are not following the rules.
@ Raider 4158022 in response to Anthony Cali "...you r wise beyond your years to know that ENTITLEMENT is EXACTLY the problem."
It's not the entitlements that are the problem, it's the lame politicians who supposedly work for US, and allow people who AREN'T entitled to get social benefits of off OUR backs! I have no problem with my neighbor who's retired and worked most of his life and paid into the system to get his entitlement of a feeble Social Security check every month. I have no problem with another neighbor who was severely injured on the job and is permanently disabled to get an even more feeble check every month. I DO however have a problem with people here ILLEGALLY, who haven't paid in a dime, and yet get benefits of almost each and every kind. I say search 'em out, pack 'em up, send 'em back home, and any and all politicians elected by legal voters, legal citizens in this country that voted for any bill that would protect illegals, be sent packin' with 'em! I also boycott any products Made In America, that come with Spanish on the package, and if I could boycott my phone company or electric company I would, for havin' that auto menu...for English press 1, para Espanol o primo cinco.....(that might not be spelled right, but hey...I don't speak Spanish, and I don't have to. This ain't a Latin American country, it's the USA)nah hell no, it should be ENGLISH only! America is gettin' lost real quick my friend. The people who are elected forget they work for US, the people, the legal people. Yet they sit in DC with coushy jobs with great incomes($180k+ per year) free government sponsored health care(then balk about "Obamacare"...two faced hillarity at best) and benefits the rest of their lives. Somethin' severely wrong, and I'm glad to see the Occupy movement in DC. It's time people learned what a royal screwjob we're gettin' in this country, and attention brought to it. Sorry for the long diatribe, but had to get it out LOL
I suspect Obama signed rather than have his veto overridden. It would appear, given the vote, that would happen, and then there would be the possibility of some disruption in funding due to the delay.
What needs to happen is a legal challenge.
ScottM97031,
So they swam ashore in North Carolina?
You don't know how or where these kids live. You don't know how they got here. You don't know a lot.
Your paycheck is an entitlement.
I don't know why anyone is surprised with the result of the meeting. Had the organizers come in with money in their pockets or working for a high profit company then the Senator would have met with them in person.
Democrat or Republican. It's all about the money. The liberals may spout platitudes about the plight of the poor, while at the same time they collect more from their lobbyists, and the CEO's of the companies that (hahaha) only support the Republicans.
The ONLY way we will instill change in this country to get rid of the Old Guard. Vote out the Long sitting Reps and Senators that do nothing but line their own pockets.
In California today if you are an illegal alien and enroll to go to a California college you will pay the in state tuition........but if you are a U.S. citizen and honorable serving US Marine or Sailor from another state currently assigned to a base in California and wish to attend any college you will have to pay the higher tuition. Thanks for your service but they prefer illegals to the military in california.
I have no problem helping someone out that is new to this country, as long as they are here LEGALLY
Wow, such a massive turnout there. 6 whole protestors! New crews following them probably outnumbered them only 2 to 1.
Seriously, folk? Can you be any more ludicrous in your attempt to keep these guys relevant, when my local Tea Party leadership roundtable (only one of six local area groups) this weekend was bigger?
Uh actually, half-wit, the article describes nine out of several thousand. But thanks for illustrating the reading level of the average teabagger.
Its amazing MarkC isn't it? And they come from places that elect idiots like Perry for Gov.
What's an exaperiance letter and a forcum??lol
So what else is New??
If these students are "undocumented" (that is, illegal immigrants), they are not citizens of the United States. Therefore, there is no reason for a Senator or her staff or her janitor to give them the time of day. While I applaud their new-found sense of civic duty, they need to first get their green cards, take the citizenship exam, and become full-fledged United States citizens. Then they should register to vote, and hopefully their representatives in Washington will listen to them.
Why penalize children for their parents' actions? They were brought here in circumstances beyond their control as small children. They have been raised as Americans, and worked hard enough to be accepted by colleges. These are the people we want. Ambitious, hardworking people who have everything but paperwork, meet all other requirements, and are not responsible for how they got here, should be allowed green cards, citizenship, and in state tuition.
These young people were there to discuss a range of issues. What they got is no surprise to me, as a NC constituent. I have called the offices of both senators, and been dissatisfied with them more than once in terms of the quality of the staff, and responses, sad to say.
I did say "if". It's not clear from the article what their status is, although the "Undocumented" signs around their necks may or may not have a bearing.
I say the 2 illegals that help educate, we give them a good education and send them back to the Country of their birth. Then they can come into this Country legally and have a proper say in the way it is run. They have no representatives in Washington!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It makes absolutely no sense to educate these kids and deport them. I really do not understand hostility towards these hardworking youngsters who are here due to circumstances beyond their control, but who have made the best of the situation. They are the kind of immigrants we want.
Americans love to cut off their nose to spite their face. It's much more important to give people "what-for" even if it's to our detriment.
Feel free to use your own funds to pay for illegals to get a reduced rate education. Personally, I'd like my money used to help people who actually follow the rules.
This did not appear to be a "protest", but more a group trying to meet with their Congressional representative. If they had an appointment with their representative, then it appears she was rude in not being present. If it was merely an appointment with the office, then that requirement was met. Either way, I don't see why this is a news item.
I agree with someone that stated the in-state tuition question is a local issue, not Federal. However, it seems the staffer was not aware of that, either. Perhaps the staffer should be brought up to date on the issues his boss actually deals with and the difference between Federal and local issues.
Why would any of these protesters expect their Democrat Representative to know what was in the bills they voted on? Dont you know they have to pass it first to find out whats in it...
They voted the way there high paying lobbyist paid them to vote. What makes you think having a (D) after there name makes them any different?
they aren't huge campaign donors so their gov't officials couldn't care less about them.
our gov't is completely bought and paid for.
a total sham
jp It has zero to do with being a campaign donor. I sit down with my Representative any time I want and he is extremely courteous and listens.
Joyce - 4263422: But does he do anything for you when he is finished listening?
Cornmeal, why do you need the goverment to do things for you, try doing for yourself. No one owes you anything. Why are there so many young people that either want the goverment (tax payers) or rich people to take care of you.
Corny,
I have told my representatives that I want to see far less done by government for everybody, including me. I want a government that doesn't help anybody, and let's individuals and families fend for themselves. So if he didn't do anything for Joyce, maybe he was listening to me!
american, Should be a government for The People, and By the People. The government is nothing without WE the People.
And, the rich would not be rich if it had not be for their people, getting rich by the sweat off the backs of my people. (This applies to all except internet rich. They absolutely did it on their own but after the first initial output, then paying great wages and then outsourcing.)
I think it is great that some of the members who were apart of Occupy Wall Street N.Carolina were in D.C. It will take more dialogues to make a difference. Congress is owned by the lobbyists so they have to be reminded that they were elected by their constituents. The Citizens United ruling has made it more difficult for Congressional members to do what is right for their constituents. Money and more money is the key to getting re-elected these days. Money was always part of the equation but it is now on steroids. A first step would be to have an amendment to do away with the results of the ruling. Expecting Congress to take the necessary steps is not realistic. The OWS is shining a light on what is wrong with our government. The extreme conservatives without consciences have caused a disaster on top of what the Bush Administration created. Moving in the direction of libertarian ideology is not the answer. We live in a democratic country for all not a self-interest society where only a few benefit.
There is no dialogue, they got stonewalled, ran around, dodged and ignored. The same treatment in person as it is year-round.
Time to start showing more visible signs of discontent........
Miranda Leitsinger (News Reporter):
What is an exaperience and a forcm? Another useless NBC-BS headline and story..
Of course, it appears that Miranda may be yet another one of the "undocumented" in "Inglese" also. What a sad state of stuff we have to put up and live with.
News "reporters" and "occupiers" that can't spell or think and don't even belong here.
Just like all those Europeans that stomped across the lands of hundreds of different native tribes a few centuries back, eh? Didn't much belong here either~ ;)
this isn't the first article I seen here where words are misspelled or there is some bad grammar. Shouldn't journalists be good at writing and spellling? Where is the editor or someone to double check the article? Maybe one of these protesters can take that for a job.
I see you noticed the mis-spelled words, but I have to ask you, what do you expect? Perfection? No way my friend, NO WAY! What you see is what is being produced by universities & colleges these days. The "journalist" who wrote the article obviously has a bias towards occufail & is more than likely "educated" (more like indoctrinated) by the same ivory tower academics (professors) that tell the occupest crowd to do their thing which is to whine for handouts. If professors did what they're paid to do (TEACH) then maybe we'd see better written articles w/ less grammatical & spelling errors & a lot less occupoopers ruining parks & cities. But after all, academia is all about "socialism" as long as they receive their $200k/yr. salaries w/ stipends. Do you think they'll ever "kick down for the cause" they preach about? Nope. This article proves many things: 1) The age of entitlement is upon us, 2) The bar has DEFINITELY been lowered, 3) Whining isn't working, 4) Occuflunk is all this "movement" is. I'd say if we ignore them they'd go away like they did here in Isla Vista, CA (home of UCSB), but like a cockroach, they keep coming back & the whining continues.
Inglese, is Spanish. He wants us to pay for his education, but he doesn't bother to learn our language.
EXPAT............."englase" is i t a l i a n! "INGLES" is s p a n i s h! check it out!
They should have met with Speaker Bohener, at least he would have given them a drink and no information.
Bogus article; as imbalanced in the Truth as Obama's position on unemployment. These Occupods didn't receive the answers they wanted to hear so they find things to be evasive and incomprehensible. They group was there to protest the cutbacks on hand-outs. Good heavens America is in trouble with Occupods multiplying at a rate that exceeds the National Debt.
Why such a long number next to your username?
Doesn't look like they came to protest but to discuss and look - do they look threatening? This is the great thing about democracy - you can question your elected officials. They got an appt to do so.
So they didn't exactly get the welcome mat? These politicians are smarter than I thought.
I'm guessing that it's because Congress, like everyone else, is sick and tired of the whiny occupy and tea party idiots.
I know that I am sick and tired of them complaining about their lives and wanting handouts ...
Go home occupy and whine to someone who cares.
Another gaseous imbecile heard from.
Only in America can people who are here illegally be insolent to everyone else, and have the chutzpah to ask for special favors from the government.
In-state tuition is not even an issue for the federal government. Tell her to call the governor or state legislators.
One problem... Sen. Hagan isn't running for re-election next year. Check back with her (and her staff) in 2 years.
Politicians have a shorter attention span than most kids.
Would have FORBIDDEN. Not would have FORBADE!
They got a good lesson on how the American political system works. Next time bring money (unmarked bills).
LLLLLLLLLLMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I've got to sleep on this one!!!!!!!! (this meeting and this article about it!!!!) AAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not so sure about a "silver lining", either. Leave it to just one more contaminated Dem to anticlimax A Day of Direct Democracy. Meet with your Representative's Representatives under strict no Media Policy! (theirs, employee to employer!)
Sen. Kay Hagan is a blithering idiot. She is as well suited to be a Senator from NC as she is to be a brain surgeon. The only thing she does well is dance like a bobblehead clown when Obama pulls on her puppet strings.
She is S.T.U.P.I.D!
Bill, good description of Hagen. She is absolutely a brainless bimbo. Obama and Reid pull her string and she goes whatever way they want her to go. She has never had an original thought.
Politicians jobs are not to change or fix anything but just to keep the money flowing up.
ptownz, unfortunately I believe you've hit the nail on the head !
You can watch live Occupy protest in DC at following link (time 7:35PM eastern):
www dot ustream dot tv/occupyoakland
You can watch live Occupy protest in DC at (time 7:35 PM eastern) link:
www dot ustream dot tv/occupyoakland
Occupy is such a waste of time. I got an idea to all you Occupy people: Rather than waste your time doing nothing for nobody how about you get into the political world where you can actually make a difference if that's your passion? Why waste time?
I mean, we got OWS in Des Moines, Iowa and they literally are completely ineffective. They stay at a park where nobody cares. The only thing anybody EVER says about them is "Wow, wish they'd clean up after themselves" and that includes my Democrat friends. They leave the park looking like a garbage dump and basically stay there for no good reason. If staying unemployed by choice to complain is how one becomes a protester guess I'll just work for a living and make a difference by, oh... I don't know, CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY.
Their passion is to complain. It's all they know, and at best, it's all they will ever contribute.
At worst, they'll complain and nobody will notice.
Amazing. People like you have been criticizing OWS for sitting around in parks and not going where the real problem is, Washington. Now that they're there you just liken them to the people in the parks and continue to complain about how much they complain.
I can't imagine you contribute as much to society as you think you do.
papag -
One of my two jobs is to save lives... Pretty sure that's a cut above dirtying up parks and complaining about stuff on deaf ears.
Your whole comment is complaining about me complaining about OWS sitting in parks dirtying them up. So basically you place your opinion above my facts (Come to Des Moines anytime and see the counterproductive Occupy group - They'll be there waiting with hands out expecting donations)
You obviously missed the point of my comment entirely. I was taking issue with the fact the people in this story are the furthest thing from the park Occupiers yet you look at them as if they are the same. When they were in Zucotti people like you said they should be in Washington. Now that they're in Washington you just recycle the same criticisms even though they're not applicable. Admit it, you will hate the OWS crowd no matter what they do.
The ignorance displayed by you and those like you is one of the major problems in America, regardless of how many lives you claim to save.
papag - You obviously don't understand my position with OWS either.
I don't hate them, I pity them. Wasting their lives away on some stupid protest that EVEN IN THIS STORY shows is an exercise in futility.
Frankly, other than the filth they live in at the park here in Des Moines I have no problem with them at all.
I know for sure they have the right to freedom of speech and that's something nobody should be taking from them. The Occupiers are still here in Des Moines, useless as ever, that I see.
I guess to me it's like looking at any other immature group, teenagers for example. I know teenagers with all the talents in the world who sit and play video games for 8 hours a day with masterful minds that could be out actually doing something.
My point is that I don't hate them at all. I find them to be misguided and wasting their time. They aren't bothering me personally. In fact, here in Iowa I seriously doubt you're going to find ANYBODY who cares that they are here.
Look at the discussion they are generating. Obviously their efforts aren't as futile as you would like to believe.
papag - Even the Occupy group was UNDERWHELMED with the results. I did look at what is being said...
Can you honestly and without laughing your rear end off say that the efforts they are taking are as effective as if they just tried working some place that would cause change? My hats off to them for sitting in the park here in Iowa in freezing weather accomplishing nothing but the illusion of success but I would urge them to actually try working for what they want rather than just whining about it.
They were underwhelmed by the response of they received from their Senator, not the effectiveness or lack thereof of their movement.
Why do you insist on referring to the squatters in your local park? They weren't in Washington, they aren't mentioned in this story. What is their relevance?
papag - The "squatters" in the park... ARE PART OF OCCUPY... (not yelling, placing emphasis).
They are who I focus on because they are the vast majority of Occupy. Also, if what Occupy is doing is having an underwhelming response by the Senator... the movement is not effective.
Either way, we've drilled this into the ground. You won't change my opinion, I won't change yours but it's been good discussing it with you. I look forward to more discussions in the future.
...and that is the whole problem. Occupy will only evolve as the members with some sense distance themselves from those in the parks. These people are trying to do that, but unfortunately you won't acknowledge the difference.
Agree to disagree, thank you as well for the discussion.
I just woner who is supporting these people to travel all over and cry wolf and mess up and leave filt for our tax dollars to pay for to clean behind them. These people disguest me.
Sounds like it is La Raza. So now they have co-opted Occupy. I believe in alien rights but until they land their spacecraft and quit buzzing my house then I don't see how I can help them. I might even get my illegal landscaper to wash their vehicle to chow my support. Verdad?