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Subscribe to RSSSenior U.S. defense officials, including Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, announce new efforts to combat sexual assault in the military.
WASHINGTON -- U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Wednesday that the Pentagon is preparing new initiatives to try to curb sexual assaults in the military -- a problem he believes could be six times greater than reported.
Panetta said 3,191 sex assault cases were reported in the military last year, but because so few victims come forward, he believes the real number is closer to 19,000 assaults. In 2010, 3,158 cases were reported.
"It is an affront to the basic American values we defend and it is a stain on the good honor of the great majority of our troops and our families," said Panetta during a press conference at the Pentagon.
“These women and these men who are willing to fight and die to protect and serve our country – they deserve better protection. Their families and dependents also sacrifice and serve. And so for this reason, we must spare no effort to protect them against this heinous crime. … One sexual assault is one too many.”
Panetta said new initiatives include extending victim services to military spouses as well as Pentagon civilians and contractors working abroad. Also, more money will go toward training investigators and lawyers to go after and prosecute perpetrators.
Under the new measures, service members who file sexual abuse charges can immediately transfer to a new unit or base to avoid harassment or contact with the accused attacker.
The proposals require congressional approval.
'Deeply regret'
Panetta spoke two days before the premiere of a new documentary about sexual assault in the U.S. military, titled "The Invisible War." The film is being shown at the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah.
Saying he wanted to speak directly to the victims of sexual assault in the Defense Department, Panetta said somberly: "I deeply regret that such crimes occur in the U.S. military ... I'm committed to providing you the support and resources you need and to taking whatever steps are necessary to keep what happened to you from happening to others."
"The Invisible War" premieres Friday at the Sundance Film Festival. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
Announcement of those two changes accompanied the Pentagon's annual report last month showing assault cases rose at the nation's three major military academies in the latest academic year from one year earlier.
The Defense Department's "Annual Report on Sexual Harassment and Violence at the Military Service Academies" for academic year 2010-2011 found there were 65 reports of sexual assaults involving cadets and midshipmen at the U.S. Naval Academy, the U.S. Military Academy and the U.S. Air Force Academy. That was up from 41 reported assaults in the prior academic year. Officials said they could not conclusively identify the reasons for the increase but that it could be because the department has worked to encourage more victims to report assaults.
Beyond the academy report every December, the Pentagon also releases an annual report each March on sexual assaults throughout the services.
This post includes reporting from The Associated Press.
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Leave a Comment:
They kill without question... why not sexually assault as well?
you shoot your mouth off at will, why not shoot yourself in the head as well? see how this works?
They don't kill with out question! where did you get that Idea? our troops have more self restraint than most countriesstroops. You have a lot of scumbags in the military but far moregood decent people that have high standards.
well otter, you can be glad their not my wife,daughter.
Our military has been sent abroad to unknown countries and most are just kids. There is no excuse for this type behavior and the officer to enlisted ratio is at a historical ratio of <5 to 1. It's time that someone be held accountable. Kids are killing each other in silly games, urinating on the dead bodies of those they kill and following orders such as those given in Abu Ghraib. When a President condones torture, what can you expect from the military?
Officer to enlisted ratio 5:1? What country's military are you talking about, because it's not the US. It's unusual for someone to express their stupidity and complete lack of knowledge in 10 words or less - I salute you.
Fine, then send everyone home if that is how you feel. State Your References, Where Did These Numbers Come From? But remember this we do the job no one else will do, while you are going to parties, living the good life and playing with your X-Box,someones son or daughter or husband or wife is standing watch over you. But when you send us home and the Enemy is at the Gate it's far to late to start checking the validity of statistics and references.
I'm curious, do the courts still make people go into the military to avoid jail time? I know they once did but that may be outdated.
I agree that one is too many. Sounds like a HUGE problem. Just wonder how long we have been covering this one up?
They don't do that any more it is go to school or jail.
Shouldn't surprise us though. CHildren have been abused for years at Penn State. The officials knew, at the very least, that something wrong was happening and did absolutely nothing.
Further, given the number of people in the military versus the number of kids in college, I wonder what the percentages of these types of assults would look like. Some sililarities perhaps?
How does the saying go? " All that is needed for evil to presist is for good men/women to do nothing?"
Are they in the military? If not STFU!
Point is, it happens all over the U.S. daily, even to very young children. Why then, would we be surprised to discover that it happens in the military as well?
Now you feel free to STFU!!!
I have worked with survivors and offenders for over 15 years. The military will never be able to deal with this problem until they prosecute the offenders in civil court and quit covering up the crimes of their officers. It is absolutely unethical and should be illegal that an officer can rape another woman or man in the military and just receive either a reprimand or the worst case dishonerable discharge and then return to the United States public like nothing ever happened. They should get tried in public court like all other sex offenders. That is just a place to start. You should not be exempt from committing crimes just because you are in the military. It is the same problem with our colleges and universities and their judicial boards trying to handle rapes and other criminal behaviors of students instead of the city or county's law enforcement getting involved. If rapists and criminals know that they are not going to get in trouble or just get kicked out of the military or college, they are definitely going to continue to commit these crimes.
I agree with TXHorseman. Young men in particular are prone to this type of behavior and guess what, the military is full of young (mostly single) men away from home for the first time in their lives. College campuses are rife with sexual assault for the same reason.
The elimination of Don't Ask Don't Tell has brought about the dramatic increase in reporting of sexual assaults. Previously (and I am a vet --- been there, got the t-shirt) and I've seen it in action. As an example, I would use John McCain at his last Navy duty station. On four different occasions, McCain accused women who worked for him of being homosexual and had them kicked out of the Navy. Each woman (though they did not know of each other, let alone know each other) made the same statement. McCain had asked them for sexual favors and when they refused (because he was short, coarse, and white-headed) he had them kicked out of the Navy.
That's the way it has been for a long time. Except now they can't just make the accusation without proof and kick them out like the old days. Over the next couple of years, a lot of male military officers are probably going to go down because of sexual misconduct. But they've had it coming for a long time.
This has always been a problem and it's not due to the fact, as some of these posts imply, that they are low life scum. A great many of these assaults take place at the military academies -- and they're supposedly the cream of the crop. I personally knew two women who had graduated from the Naval Academy only to be sexually harassed by their superiors at their assigned posts. They were both reluctant to report it for fear of retaliation, and at that time, if you said anything your career was over. That was back in the early 90s and I am sad to learn that nothing much had changed.
What is with these people who can't control themselves?
My daughter is in the military and deployed abroad. She has told me about multiple cases both stateside and abroad where women soldiers she knew have reported sexual assault and the military has swept it under the rug, put the blame on the female soldier, or retaliated against the female soldier. I would like to believe that this is not as rampant as this report would like you to believe but it does happen.
@skydiver,
What military have you been in? In the past 12 years, the officer to inlisted ratio has slipped from 1:6 to 1:5. The Pentagon is currently considering cashiering (RIFing) about 15,000 officers to get it back to 1:6. The guy got the numbers right, just expressed it inarticulately.
I'm curious to see how this compares to America's ratio for sexual assault, so here's some math.
In the active-duty military, there's around [PDF] 1.43 million people. Article doesn't mention reserves, so I'm going to exclude them for now. That'd be around another 850,000 as of 2009.
Per the DOJ's 2006-2010 study:
That's not a number that includes unreported, but it's also not the number reported, because it's from the National Crime Victimization Survey, which extrapolates from census stats. Best I've got though. Finding sexual assault stats - on the day Wikipedia is down, no less - is challenging.
3,191 reported cases / 1,430,000 active-duty military personnel = .0022, or, if every single case only had one victim reporting, .2% of active-duty military reported that they were sexually assaulted last year.
Panetta's number:
19,000 / 1,430,000 active-duty military personnel = .0133, or 1%, and if the previous number was a little hard to place, this is more straightforward: the Secretary of Defense thinks 1 out of every 100 active-duty military personnel was sexually assaulted last year. [Minimum.]
And in the US at large?
207,754 victims/ 308,745,538 population = ... well, my computer calculator says 6.728971739828026e-4, which is 0.00067, or .07% of the US population is sexually assaulted every year. That figure's a lot more ballpark than the military ones.
If the Bureau of Justice's 1992-2000 study Rape and Sexual Assault: Reporting to Police and Medical Attention's conclusion that 60% of rapes/sexual assaults go unreported is still accurate, our ballpark number leaps from 207,754 to 519,385, and from .07% above to a .17% estimate, which is close to the amount of military who reported they were sexually assaulted last year.
I expected the numbers to be closer together. It's disheartening that you're apparently more likely to be sexually assaulted in the military than as a civilian.
Let me know if my math is wrong or if I missed some better sources. What's out there on the general population is far from ironclad, but I don't think the discouraging above bolded sentence can be disproven.
@Tyler,
The difference comes from the age groups represented. The military is a lot younger group overall and this becomes even more prevalent when you take the 17-16 age group where inpulse control is not completely developed while sexuality is near peaking.
There is also serious underreporting in the civilian sector as well. Most people feel that only about 1 in 6 serious rapes is actually ever recorded by the police who typically hate he-said-she-said "domestic" issues.
it's wrong...
What is the per capita rape rate in the U.S.?
What is the per capita rape rate in the military?
I bet this is an interesting number.
Just noticed Tyler already responded. As I said - interesting.
Therefore, since the military is a politically conservative organization, would it be accurate to state political conservatives (Republicans) are more likely to rape than any other population segment?
Why don't you give it a rest with that garbage. Allowing enhanced interrogation (call it torture if you want) in very limited situations carried out by a limited number of people is hardly "condoning torture". If you have to exaggerate to make your point you obviously don't have a valid one.
Wow, many of these assaults were in the military academies... where the "cream of the crop" soldiers are schooled! It all goes with the "macho" mentality so many of these guys have and many of them believe "anything goes" in a war zone.
Tyler and Chris - congrats. Excellent discussion. Real facts and not just opinion and polemics. And, yes, I think Chris is right and, if you controlled the numbers for age, you'd find that the civilian sexual assault ratio likely met or exceeded the military one. After all, criminal behavior, especially sexual misconduct, is rather skewed to younger perpetrators and youth is a defining feature of the military. Thanks again for an intelligent contribution to the topic.
Did you jump a few times that the chute didn't open? Google it, simp
@Tyler, you might be better served finding the rape statistics for universities, which would have a similar age demographic as the military, and comparing those numbers. At my university the rape-crisis center in town did a presentation that stated that 1 in 5 women would be sexually assaulted sometime in their lifetime and 1 in 9 men-- that doesn't, unfortunately, give us much to go on vis a vis the age demographic we're looking at, but food for thought.
@shonymat (comment 1). Tsk tsk. Spoken like someone with little to no military firearms training. You ALWAYS think before pulling the trigger (at least, that's the goal). You have to identify your target, identify whether or not they are an immediate threat, identify what (if any) collateral damage might be generated by engaging the target and then decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Or, to put it more simply: Target Acquisition, Threat Assessment, Damage Control, Execute. (and here, I should be clear, execute means to execute your decision--to engage or not-- it does NOT mean to execute the person in your sights... unless, of course, one has determined they are an immediate threat and can be safely engaged). Take a firearms training class- get some real life experience/education. As it is, you sound terribly naive.
@Tx Horseman, comment 1.7:
From the article:
So... yeah. Not exactly Roswell-Alien-Area 51 conspiracy going on here, man. They recognize it as the problem that it is and have worked to expose it, shore up weaknesses in the system, encourage reporting and prosecute the perpetrators accordingly. Are there abuses within the system that foster these sorts of crimes? Almost assuredly. But is the system in-total working to cover them up? Not at all-- the momentum is clearly moving in the other direction-- and fewer and fewer people are willing to cover for these sorts of crimes.
Now, a lot has been said about the perpetrators being "low life scum" and monsters, etc. and while I believe that violent rape is a product of just such disreputable figures, the vast majority of rape cases are not violent-- call it date rape or what-have-you. There is an intrinsically interpersonal complication involved with non-violent rape cases. Someone above mentioned the police have little patience or desire to be involved with he-said/she-said domestic dispute, and that will tell you right there that such complications are present and myriad. Consider the "rape" that occurred with that woman and the lacross team from whatever school I can't recall at the moment. After a lot of hooplah, legal wrangling and reputation tarnishing, it turns out the woman made the whole thing up as a bid for attention. You also have cases where in the moment everything is yes-yes-yes, but in the fallout (the morning after, when the booze wears off) suddenly its no-no-no. These cases too are complicated and are anything but cut and dry.
Now, please don't misunderstand those comments to act as any sort of justification for rape-- especially violent rape-- but the nature of the crime means that 1. much of it is under reported and 2. much of it that is reported may not qualify as a sexual "assault" for one reason or another. (Probably not the majority, but certainly some cases are made up, stem from a miscommunication about physical limits or lack of clarity generally about the desire for sexual contact, a complete lack of foresight or as a result of an unrelated dispute: a "revenge-allegation"). There is a reason that so few sexual assaults are prosecuted-- it's because from a legal standpoint, it is very difficult to determine that an assault took place without direct physical evidence. Now, in a violent rape, such evidence is generally forthcoming-- severe bruising, defensive wounds, etc. and these cases are easier to prosecute. Non-violent sexual assaults are a muddled ground at best and rarely end with a conviction (which also limits the volume of reported cases). Another factor to consider: the US military is predominantly male, which means that if Panetta's numbers are right (coupled with Tyler's math clarification above) and roughly 1 in 100 are sexually assaulted, that means that much of these sexual assaults are male-on-male crimes, which further limits the reporting. No man, especially not one engaged in an alpha-male, dominant, dog-eat-dog culture (i.e. the military), wants to admit to being sexually abused by another male. It's emasculating.
So sorry for the long post... just wanted to share my thoughts.
Remember folks, no means no. Be chivalrous. Stop yourself, your friends, and strangers from being idiots-- and that goes for both sexes.
People who say love it or leave it or tell others to shut up; don't have coping skills or the skills required to problem solve....just make it go away with rudeness is to condone real problems. Are these condone-rs doing it because they them selves have these control problems?
Too many humans just give up or worse, join in in the abuse...calling them out just makes you the new target of their misguided reality.
LOL
I know that's right.
Those were dead long ago.
There's my point.
That's 19,000 sex assaults just on our own. If we were to include all the sexual assaults against citizens of host countries we are stationed at, you may have to triple or quadruple that total.
The problem is the forced co-mingling of the sexes in what sanely could only rationally be a man's domain in the first place.
This is only the result that is to be expected when humanity caves in to the insane and irrational demands of the brave-new-worlders who imagine themselves able to re-define human behavior at the stroke of a pen.
Once we started to break down the barriers between gender roles and pretended that it didn't matter, that "equal protection" had to be the god we serve no matter how insane it proves to be in practice or how much of common-sense human tradition had to be trampled into the ground in blind allegiance to an ill-conceived and very superficially considered brand of wishful thinking, this kind of thing becomes inevitable.
Don't cry to me about it just now.
Send Niagara Falls back uphill first.
I use to think of our Military as our most polished and respected citizens for our country,
thats the way it was thats the way it should be..Crack the whip and make it happen.
Perhaps we need to take a look at our culture in general? Why is it that, if I were to openly state someone sexually assaulted me, my word would be questioned, but if I were to state my car was stolen, nobody would think twice that I was lying? Perhaps more cases of sexual assault aren't reported, because of the media thrashings of those who do come forward. "Crying Rape" is akin to plane crashes, it's only news worthy, because it's so rare.
Rape is defined as having sex with someone who did not consent. It's hard to determine if someone really had non-consensual sex. It's easy to look in a garage and see that a car is gone.
You missed the point. You can't look in my garage and see my car is gone right now, can you? But if I said that my car had been stolen, would you automatically jump to the conclusion that I was lying? Take this out of the court mentality for a moment, that's a different issue. I'm not speaking about the burden of proof necessary for a conviction of a specific, alleged perpetrator. I'm speaking of the fact that those not even involved with the prosecutorial aspect, question whether it even OCCURED, not whether they can prove it.
People doubt stories they hear from other people. This is because people are known to make up stories.
Yes, people and Government make up stories to fit their agenda at least in US, the government so much in regular western countries!
Commisar,
On an individual basis, yes. However, there's a culture of automatically disbelieving a survivor of sexual assault, that we don't see in any other area of crime.
That's because you can easily see when other crimes occur. You can't easily see when a sexual assault has occurred.
what do you expect. they are uneducated animals for the most part. the american culture is the very worst in the world and add no education to that, and mostly the poor and its a great recipe for disaster.
wow, if you don't live here you have NO right to post your worthless opinion about the USA...if you do live here, you need to leave before someone tires of your moronic rantings and goes all medieval on your worthless scum sucking hide, you frikkin waste of oxygen.
You have no clue. the military encourages education. I know a lot of college kids that act just like animals. Looks like the worlds education system has failed when "educated" College kids can act like animals.
listen you third world @!$%# the u.s.a have a very high record of edcuation unlike your where you still @!$%# in the out doors and wipe your ass with your hand and stone people to death what a ass
Actually most service members are very intelligent and also educated. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't know anyone that is in the military. Meet some, I guarantee that your opinion of us will change.
nomorells:
What an insult to the US Military!
Is it that you are so Superior? Of course these assaults happen, or are they talking about Consensual sex, as being assaults.
No huge group of people (mostly young military volunteers) are perfectly contained, having raging hormones. May the US should send in 80 year olds to fight. Should the Government apply, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"; or are they considering all genders lumped in together.
This is a ridiculous subject. It went on in all Wars---sex. It is the instinct of human behavior, otherwise, they would be having Lions serving in the Military.
Male Lions "do it" every 10 minutes. Fact.
@nomorewells
Why don't you limit your comments to topics you know something about. I suggest starting with something simple, such as what your boogers taste like.
2 is not a good comment. Lots of generalization. Personally, I wouldn't respond to it. Good on the three of you who did without attacking the commenter.
otter54, sgtsam2005, you gotta do better than this or ignore and move on:
You're each suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Denver bill that was a good one :<)
Hey nomorewells, I have a Master's of Science I earned while in the military. I doubt you have as much education. (I draw this conclusion from your inability punctuate and structure a sentence.) If you knew anything about the intelligence requirements to enter military service, you would keep your stereotypical comments to yourself.
By the way, I highly doubt that there are this many sexual assaults. I believe there are the number of cases reported, but the numbers being "six times" as many sounds fairly ridiculous to me. Sensationalism at it's finest.
Remember, these are the same people trying to place restrictions on the internet, and banning certain pythons nationwide because of a blown out of proportion problem in the everglades.
It always starts with some sensational headline, then some finger pointing, then big government "finally" steps in to "help."
corporate america and freedom of speech...working together in perfect harmony ...lol
John Gibeau:
Exactly!
Male Lions don't rape. The Male lion is the ultimate family 'man' even though a polygamous one. The lioness decides and invites what happens, and how often. Fact!
What you have here in this article is the reflection of a degraded culture; the result of a degenerate, depraved uncultured society. Some comments here appear to have confused a technological accomplished society with a culturally advanced one...which the US is not.
A rape is a moment of perpetual cultural shame for every one!
Punishment for rape is death. Hanging for the civilian. Firing squad for the soldier...although the rapist does NOT deserve that honorable death of the man in uniform.
There is no such thing as a non-violent rape. Only the rapist rationalizes so in his narcissistic egoistical sick mind. Terrifying violence happens in the girls minds when raped...horrifying and devastating if she is an inexperienced innocent virgin!
You have described police training or the relatively benign relaxed experience of a civilian gun training camp. None of what you have stated suggests that you have knowledge of military orders, discipline, training, chain of command, and their execution.
Hamz:
Ok, I did some reading---the Lioness is the aggressor--when it is mating time, the Male Lion and the Lioness can "do it" up to 50 times per day---at least once per hour--The Lioness has the better stamina.
My fact was told to me by friends who frequently go on African Safaris.
Peace.
This particular section of this thread spotlights the attention on precisely the relevant contradiction. When we see ourselves as merely another species of animal, and then try to make sense of "law" and "ethics" in that context, we demonstrate only that for such animals, any kind of nonsense can be "logical." To a lifeless block of wood, feminism makes as much sense as any other idea.
Erasing the distinction between male and female has always been a bad idea that can only lead to bad results. You can't fix THIS problem until you first fix THAT one.
When we started feeding gravel to the ducks, the ducks began to die.
Impudent ducks. Beat them until they learn to like gravel and thrive on it!
The nonsense stated above is parabolic to exactly the kind of fiction that is at the heart of this news story--the solution to the nonsensical interpretation of the "equal protection" clause of the constitution that has somehow inexplicably been elevated to the status of god whom all things--however absurd--must serve, in service to . . . no known or conceivable purpose.
That, and a host of other modern "problems" that will never disappear and only grow worse so long as the solution to "inequality" is to re-invent the human being, morality, and common sense.
The solution is obvious, but few will see it, and of those, fewer still will admit it. Armed conflict is wrong. So is feminism. What else can you expect when you mix the two and pretend you have neither a brain nor a conscience? Two wrongs can never equal virtue.
A woman has no more business in a combat unit than a man has as a patient in an OBGYN clinic.
Those who cannot see this obvious fact are condemned to extinction, but that won't keep them from hollering.
Now, scream all you want. Command Niagara Falls to go uphill until it listens to you and begins to go backward.
Will you kill yourself when it refuses to obey?
Then why should we as a society do that? But the intelligentsia are determined to go down the road to extinction.
The ancients weren't as stupid and foolish as the post-modernists would have us believe. They saw this nonsense coming centuries ago. Sad that there are so few breathing human beings with the wisdom to see the obvious.
There are a TON of sexual assaults on women AND men, in Afganistan, cause of the dark areas our soldiers have to live in, of course a man is not going to come forward and say, "another man raped me while two other men held me down", duh, it is definitely "under reported." can this be fixed? who knows, people won't change, there is no point in discussing it if the "president" and congress aren't going to do anything about it, they seem to be more interested in taking things AWAY from the military and giving things to poor, illegal people.
Well, Army wife, I was with you until your last sentence. I was married to a military man for 20 years, and both of my sons did tours of Iraq and Afghanistan and I can tell you that until the administration changed, I could get no help whatsoever for my son who came back from two tours of Iraq with mangled feet in 2007(his shoes were too small - I was told that it wasn't cost effective to make shoes over size 15) and a kidney that only functioned at 60%.
But I can tell you, that before my ex retired from the military, I saw many so-called officers abuse the system. I even personally knew one captain's wife who received a face lift in a military hospital overseas on the taxpayer's dime, while we were fighting with the local exterminators to get the rats out of the military housing we lived in. It wasn't until I shot a video of the rats playing in my front yard, and threatened to send it to the newspapers, that they finally sent people to correct the problem. There is a lot of waste and abuse in the military and the Pentagon needs to be a lot smarter about how it spends its money -- then and especially, now.
Army wife are you an idiot?
I wonder how many here defending the military and are still in (or recently left) the service - have ever stood up to offenders and called them out...or did they just look the other way.
I knew of a guy from work who was known to have molested a woman - I indirectly called him out, it is not an easy thing to do, but I had to let him know that I was on to his insane actions. Power is self perceived, and many people deeply desire it....even if it is just the Lead person on a crew.
I can understand an ego trip at 15 years old; some out grow it while others fertalize their ego till the day they die.
Conservatives sure make being poor sound like a great life...I wonder why more people don't just give up that super hard working for a living thingy and just join the (poor) club?
ArmyWife - I applaud your recognition that there are a huge number of sexual assaults against both men and women in the armed services. However, your statement that the "president" is not going to do anything about it and only wants to take things away from the military is ridiculous. The current administration has done more to advance the prevention of and services to victims of sexual violence than any administration in history. Despite your clear disdain of the "president," the Obama Administration just saw to it that the FBI change its outdated and limited definition of rape to ensure that women AND men are recognized as victims when sexual contact is not consensual, and that victims no longer have to be beaten up to be considered victims of crime. Additionally, VP Joe Biden was the AUTHOR of the Violence Against Women Act (funds from which also provide services to men), and has been instrumental in its reauthorization time and again. As a proud Air Force brat and as someone who works in the field of sexual violence, I thank your family for your service, but ask that tonight, in the privacy of your own home and your own thoughts, you take the time to thank this administration for its efforts to properly address sexual assault.
And it's only going to get worse after DADT was lifted.
Guess what, it didn't.
What Panetta is doing right now is trying to dodge the bullets I have been throwing at him concerning his ignoring and concealing government corruption in his home town of Monterey and that I caught the law firm his son belongs to fixing trials with his home town good ol boy judge cronies.
Panetta urinated in Coke bottles to haze Santa Clara Law Students. Listen to the conversation at BadgerFlats .com that proves it.
You can't trust a word this charlatan says.
Like I said, go to Badger Flats . com. Listen to the conversation I had with Panetta when he delivered the veiled threat to me to back off of my exposing the corruption.
Having served, I can say that part of the problem flows from the hierarchical chain of command. When a higher ranking soldier orders you to meet him in the middle of a field in during the middle of the night, you must go. Plus, you cannot just "quit" the military. Further, when don't ask, don't tell was in place, it was used to blackmail, especially lesbians, into sexual situations.
one reason i did not complete training in the military the complete disrespect of women.the mind set culture of the military okay soldiers are trained to defend the country from enemies but the worst enemy was the men next to me with little respect for the opposite sex. Not realizing each woman they saw in a pornographic picture could be their own wife or daughter.
You were plausible, till you went off the rails there in that last sentence!
Hmmm... Sadly, the VA is learning first hand about sexual misconduct in the U.S. military. It involves all branches.
People who served in the U.S. military, and who were forced or coerced to "do things they would rather not have done," were either watching a knife or a gun the sexual predator used to enforce his/her will. Sometimes, it was the threat of unfavorable treatment: "If you don't do this, you will have XYZ happen to you."
It is not just men against women, it also involves same sex misconduct. Usually the predator has a higher rank than the victim.
I believe that in all cases, the perpetrators are a type of pedophile, and it is learned behavior. They are repeating things that happened to them when they were younger. To a certain extent is is about control. Having the power and control over another person to do your bidding. However, it is criminal behavior and should be treated accordingly. It is not acceptable behavior for the military or society.
Anyone who experienced any type of sexual abuse or misconduct while serving in the U.S. military, needs to know they can file a claim with the VA. If the claim is granted, the VA will provide counseling and medications, and quite possibly, financial compensation.
Contact a service organization for help filing the claim - American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Vietnam Veterans of America, Military Order of The Purple Heart, etc. They do this for free to help veterans.
The Billion Dollar Violence Against Women's Act (VAWA) is up for renewal and major refunding. Now is the time to report that crimes against women (of course, ignoring the disproportionate crimes against men), are important despite a 20 year trend of decline in all violent crime, including rape.
But, let's ask, why is there no Violence Against Men's Act or VAMA? Should women continue to be a protected class?
Wow, as a veteran, with a brother that is still serving and is also a veteran who was with the Third Infantry Division (3ID) /// during their storming of Baghdad, and with family members serving this county as early as the civil war (sorry, were not here for the revolutionary war), I must say that you crack smoking liberals need to put down the bongs and stop the lying. Brenda, unless you served during Vietnam or earlier you must be al liar or a complete idiot. Any woman that voices any complaint since the late 80's has been given the benefit of the doubt and has destroyed many servicemen's careers, sometimes rightfully, othertimes not. Seems to me that the anti-military crowd likes to make up a lot of stories and that includes Pinetta who did 2 freakin' years as a butterbar! WTF! This guy can barely spell ARMY! and he's the Secretary of Defense! Bring back Gates or Rummy!
More hard evidence that the tenets of feminism are destructive nonsense--evidence that will continue to be ignored by the post-modernist intelligentsia who foolishly imagine themselves wise enough to redefine the human being against all common sense and have invented all the solutions imaginable for non-existent problems while caring not a whit for any simple and obvious solution to any real problem quite simply because they long ago got themselves edumacated and decided that with so much "knahlige" in their heads all would be perfectly fine if they dropped their brains into their pants.
NOW THAT'S THE MILITARY I KNOW. i suggest we put these heros in every country all over the world.We could take over the world and never fire a shot.PLEASE SEND ME MY SHARE,
It's quite obvious you don't know anything about the military.
What else would you expect when you have males and females serving together in rugged, sometimes secluded, remote areas - a convent and monastery? Boys will be boys especially when girls are around in these circumstances. When I served in Korea, the only women around were in the MASH units or an occasional USO show. You were either being nursed or entertained. I would not want to be a soldier in this so-called modern military. When I was in the millitary (more than 50 yeara ago, you were able to focus on the enemy and war. Under modern ciccumstances, these men will focus on the nearest female. I know where my mind would be if I was 20 years old and there was a female under the truck next to mine. Get off it, leave them alone. How many have we lost due to their inattention to the war and the enemy?
Yea Shel,
Real intelligent comment. Rape is ok. Even when its your own team thats raping you.
Sounds to me like you should be the next one raped or better yet, fragged.
Seriously? You're response is boys will be boys? Let me ask you this. If we can't expect a man to be around a women without being so "distracted" as to the point where they commit sexual assault how can we expect a man to effectively wage war? And why do you think getting rid of women would solve the problem? Men sexually assault men, especially when there are no women around. All that would do was shift the problem, not solve it.
Clearly when you say "boys will be boys" you truly mean it. The difference between adults and children is that adults have learned throughout childhood not to act impulsively, and to not take something or hurt someone just because they feel like it. They have learned this by being punished or rewarded time and time again. By your standards, our troops are boys who still need to learn their lessons, not men.
So shel, basically you are saying that "boys" are horny dogs that can't be trusted around females? Are you freakin serious?
I just bet that in units that have good leadership you won't find activities like sexual abuse, illegal drugs, hazing,etc. I have a feeling that lack of discipline in a unit bleeds into all activities and not just sexual misconduct.
Yes rad, but we eventually grow out of it.
"Back in the day," the military had to wear their uniform, and they had to present themselves well at all times, even on leave. This included not swearing, making lewd remarks, and of course not attacking others. There were women around, including civilians, and the military was told to especially protect themselves from prostitutes, if for no other reason than not to contract an STD. But bad behavior was severely punished, and that was in WWII. This was what distinguished American soldiers from the enemy. America was known as a down to earth but also God-fearing nation with nice, decent young men. It wouldn't be a bad idea if we at least tried to raise children that way so that they could be better adults. I remember that women were glad to welcome home soldiers after WWII, even those with shell shock. All the men washed dishes (but now they get MREs, and don't have enough hands-on clean-up). They were better equipped at returning home than the young men who had never gone to war. That is the main difference between then and now. R E S P E C T. It means something.
You know, I was in the U. S. Army for 3 years during the Korean War. I never heard of a rape or a "sexual assault" (whatever that means) during the entire tenure of my service. You know why, there were no women in our outfits. They were men only. The WACS held primarily clerical jobs at various headquarter levels (they had their own barracks) and the nurses worked around the hospitals (in Korea = MASH units). There were no distractions caused by male or female hormones because there were no women around. Homosexuals, if discovered were given a "368" discharge (Section 8 = mental problems). Many times, the homosexuals would turn themselves in to get out of the military. It is terrible what has happened to our great military traditions and organizations. I would not serve in the military under any circumstances today - I would go to jail first. I would have no part of dealing with the relationships suggested by current policy.
Yo Rad - I am deadly serious. What planet are you from?
Yo MooMoo2 - In the military this is a true statement. You put men and women together in a secluded, remote war zone and trouble will resuilt. The same thing happens in the workplace in civilian life. I have worked in offices for over 40 years and I have seen things that absolutely made me puke. I have seen women giving oral sex to men in the stairwells of corporate headquarters. I have seen men kissing and fondling each other in little alcoves of an office building near the mens room. I have encountered men and women actually fornicating in the janitorial supply room that I entered looking for a mop to clean up a spilled pepsi. I can only conclude after this long period of time, that this behavior is "normal" insofar as the close congregation of men and women (or men/men or women/women) goes. The purpose of our presence in Iraq (now over?) and Afghanistan (continuing) is to kill bad folk. Having women in the same area as this deadly activity is a distraction. Having queers in that same area is a distraction. It will never work. That is not a sexist statement. It is a fact of life. When we are trying to defeat maniacal insurgents who will kill you if given the chance, we do not need to have women and queers around. It is not a game. It is deadly and with those distractions, we could lose sons, fathers, uncles, etc.
Shel --
Referring to your comment 4.9 and then to 4.11, one can only laugh at your reference to " 'sexual assault' (whatever that means)." If this was your attempt (in 4.9) to convince us that you don't know what the fuss is about, you totally blew it. Your bias against women and gays comes across loud and clear. Your acceptance of men's right to do as they wish sexually does as well. Too bad the sense of honor in the military didn't rub off on you just a little.
What Shel is trying to get at is that our political correctness has put us in this situation. Humans are not perfect, and to expect such is unrealistic.
Your sophomoric comment made no sense. But then, consider the source.
As for the occasional commenters presenting the "boys will be boys" defense (or it's female equivalent), what a lot of crap. These "boys" have mothers and sisters, all have had girlfriends/boyfriends and many have wives/husbands. They all know what constitutes acceptable behavior. None of them get past basic training if they have absolutely no moral compass. And by the time they finish basic, they are no longer "boys". It's time to man up, Soldier up, and admit that only sleaze bags rape their fellow servicemembers or anyone else. And I seriously doubt the repeal of DA/DT will increase sexual assualt. Until we weed out the knuckle draggers, there will be heterosexual on homosexual physical assault, but that will diminish with time, too. We need to recognize the difference between fraternization and rape, of course, since young people in the prime of health WILL intermingle, but if it's rape in the civilian world, it's rape in the military--and no more tolerable.
Elizabeth I am sorry but what planet did you come from?
Sailors and the rest of the Military are quite well known for their ability to swear"
Ever hear of the term "Cursing Like A Sailor"
Stop watching the nice movies and get in the real word. Guys in the military curse and get laid as much as possible, always have and probably always will. And so do most other men.
If you wanted to find the street hookers, look near the base.
I am so sick of our officials speaking out against our Military..It would be a cold day in hell if they said something deserving..I would like to see their butts doing the same work the Military does. Its time to boot all of these chosen few out..Send them packing.
I wonder how many sexual assaults panetta has been involved in, that were covered up.
It always seems like they tell us we are so great, then bash us. It's like someone beating the crap out of you then handing you a single band aid.
Or like my dad saying "This will hurt me more than you
Considering that the military is made up of those who can not get a job or get into college, this type of mentality should surprise no one. Nor should pissing on dead enemies.
My wife was actually a teacher and one day said I think I will join the Air force(they were never at the recruiting office) so she joined the Army. She was collage educated and had been supporting her ex husband for 6 years. What I get tired of is all the College graduates saying "I cant get a job". BS it is easy.
Army Guy, do you think rapists don't deserve to be bashed???? I don't care if they are in the military or not!
You know, you guys (Jean98257 and Armyguy) need to take a good hard look at what goes on in the military. I know and you know for a fact that sexual harassment, including rape, does indeed go on in the military -- a lot. It needs to be rooted out and the only way to do that is to stop sweeping it under the rug like it doesn't happen. Just because he's finally shedding light on a shameful situation that should have been dealt with long ago, doesn't mean he's bashing the entire military --- just the jerks and criminals who go around forcing unwanted -- repeat -- unwanted sexual activities towards others they perceive as being weak (that would include women and men).
I'm glad somebody is finally dealing with this problem, and I would think that you would want the same thing! My two sons are in the military and these criminals who commit these crimes against others make the people who served honoraly look bad. I don't understand why you would want this problem hushed up. Care to elaborate?
What do you expect from someone who won a Nobel Peace Prize before he is even elected. Do the math people.
RB - your comment makes no sense -- by the way, which branch of the service were you in?
RB - so rapes in the military are Obama's fault too??? They have been going on forever, long before Obama entered the political scene. Ridiculous post!
Hey RB crawl back under your rock. My wife was raped while in the military while a Republican was in office. Over 20 years later and she still has serious issues. Your attempt to politicize this issue is pathetic beyond all belief.
Hey descrs and edandbunny, you wanna bet that RB doesn't even know HOW to do math? That's why he's telling others to do it!
Auto 101...your dad must have a small member, haha
I was referring to him spanking me. However My wife has dealt with spousal rape where the husband says this.
Jean-So rape is OK as long as it's military members who do it? Do you even know what the heck you are talking about or do you just want to be given a chance to bash Obama and tell everyone how "unpatriotic" he is?
I spent 14 years in the Navy and rape was NOT acceptable, your bottom would be court martialed if you did it. It has nothing to do with picking or bashing anyone. Rape is not acceptable regardless if it is in the military or civilian world....
It's not good journalism nor good commentary to suggest 19000 cases of sexual misconduct. It is misleading. What happens is some hair brained researcher gets a small sample and then suggests the sample represents the entire population. I would first read the reports and determine if the research even meets the minimum criteria proper measurement practices and statistical significance. Big claims like this deserve an extra level of scrutiny. Secondly, notice how this type of report comes out when it is politically unpopular to downsize the military but the President is working to slash military spending. We would never want to belittle the fact if even one person suffered from abuse. However, the timing is just too perfect for my taste. I will pass this story off as a bad PR stunt in an election year.
descrs-1664846: I was addressing the way in which the military is generally treated. As to rapist, if they are found guilty the military is the only jurisdiction that I know of were they can receive the death penalty, which I am more then happy with.
kat-1015719: Your ignorance is showing, and I mean that in the proper usage of the word. I congratulate you for raising two sons which have joined the military, however are you in the military? If not you have no way to know the amount of training all receive in regards to sexual assault, or the multiple reporting avenues based upon how the victim wants to. Also this is not an issue that has been "brushed under the rug" it has been an ongoing issue that has been OPENLY addressed for years.
Good post Army guy.
Notice how Marinmom posted that anyone that serves in the military must be too dumb to get into college? It's alway great when a fanatical left-wing Democrat chimes in. And they wonder why over 90% of the military vote goes Republican or Independent? Duh! It's because we are not allowed to get high enough to vote Democrat! Obama is Okay though, he's not nearly as mentally deficient as the rest of you.
Shame on the offenders, not on the good military men and women. Let's address the deviants and support the victims and the rest of the military.
Absolutely, pixie -- I agree 100%! Let's deal with it and get these offenders out of the military! And I don't mean just "transfer" the offenders to another location (like other institutions do), I mean get them and prosecute them like the criminals they are!
@ marimon
People who are in the military aren't failures at life. I'm not sure where you get the idea that soldiers are just people who "can't" get jobs or an education.
We live in a time where unemployment is rather high, not everyone can afford secondary educations, and a time where nearly everything costs well beyond what it should due to hidden fees and hidden service charges, plus use, plus monthly fees etc.
We live in a nation where we treat our fellows worse than we treat foreigners. We live in a nation where we condemn those who truly do need help, but grant handouts to scam artists and immigrants.
We live in a nation that supports sending jobs oversees so billionaires can have a larger profit margin through cheaper labor and higher prices for goods that break in no time at all with no guarantees.
This wasn't how America used to be.
Why is it so acceptable now?
Soldiers are far from lazy. Many people are far from lazy. It's just not possible for everyone to be CEO. Some people have to be the laborers, and in that we ought to support the efforts of our fellows over those of other nations - at least first.
When our problems are fixed, then we can try to help others. We need to clean up the corruption here, and the poverty and despair here first.
"...not everyone can afford secondary education." Excuse me, but secondary (high school) education is FREE in this country. College is TERTIARY education. And a lot of people in the military joined to earn access to the G.I. Bill to help pay for college.
Thank you Auto 101. There are indeed more decent people in the military. It takes only a few bad personnel to screw it up for the rest.
and for that idiot that thinks they kill with out question, our poor soldiers have so many guidelines they have to follow before they can shoot at someone shooting them, it's no wonder we are like sitting ducks over there. maybe you should get your facts straight before you look stupid posting things that are not true.
The rules of war and for engagement are pretty strict.
I had one soldier tell me yesterday that when he was in Ramadi, they tied the body of one of the enemy to the front of their humvee and paraded it around all day in an effort to let the enemy know they too could expect the same fate. This was actually posted on Facebook if you can believe it! When I stated my dissatisfaction with this behavior, multiple posters came on and called me a "bitch", a "@!$%#", etc. So don't tell me they are all following the rules. The poster placed a photo of the marines peeing on the corpses and all of these soldiers were making comments as to how they supported this behavior. If you could have read this blog, you would have been absolutely disgusted with this group of soldiers. Is this what is "really" going on over there? I know war is not nice but it seems many of our soldiers have no respect for anyone or anything. I would just like to know how prevalent this mentality is in our military. God forbid I say anything negative about the military... but I'm sorry, this is disgusting behavior and is probably classified as a "war crime" or "crimes against humanity."
Just like any rule you can brake them. You wont always be punished.
Yea, my sons told me about these "rules of engagement" while they were in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are completely naive if you believe that all soldiers follow those rules. Hell, I lived on a military base in Japan and saw many who couldn't even follow the rules in peace, let alone war. We do not live in a "they are bad" and "we are good" world any more. That's a fairy tale.
Since I wasn't the one out there with my life on the line, the only advice I could give our sons was to do NOTHING that would bring shame to yourself, your family or the uniform. I'm proud to say, that as far as I know, they both did just that.
Amen!
The only thing that Americans can hope for is that soldiers that do cross the line are held accountable for their actions. The vast majority of American soldiers are doing the right thing, it's a few that slipped through the cracks during Basic training and AIT that make the rest look bad. Yes, there are some soldiers that do wrong, but that's kind of like saying that there are some Los Angeles residents that steal. Of course we expect more from our military than we expect from Californians but they are all human.
Shonymat: You don't know what you are saying so just keep you stupid mouth shut! Spoken like the idiot that you are. You must be fresh off of the boat from the Middle East!
At the least, definitely an Arrogant Academic A$$hole hanging out at a university on the taxpayers dime, trying to figure out how to stay in the land of the godless rather than go back to the hole that spawn him. By the way did 30 years have 2 associate degrees, 2 bachelor degrees, a masters and have lived on every continent but one. So any time you want to go toe to toe drop on by Shonymat.
So RB first you denigrate those at university, then you tell us about all the degrees you have...guess you were one of those "A$$holes hanging out at a university on the taxpayers dime"....
Our troops are a representative sample of our society. There will be good soldiers, and there will be bad soldiers. To fanatically believe that everything and everyone in our military is "good" is as dangerous as denegrating all soldiers as bad. You don't get a free pass to morality when you sign up, nor does your service excuse or make acceptable crimes against humanity, or against your fellow soldiers.
Sexual assault, in our society and in our military, is a problem. It's a problem that rarely gets focused on, and it's not caused by "forced equality" or our military attempting to "undo gender differences" as some of these posters have stated, nor can it be "expected" simply because men are young, dumb, and full of you know what.
As a society, we need to start focusing on the way gender is presented in the media, assertivness needs to be promoted in females as opposed to looked down upon, and communication skills need to be better taught. The first step towards fixing that problem is ceasing the backlash towards victims who do come forward. Sexual assault is the only crime where, not only would it most likely not be prosecuted, but the fact that it even occurred is called into question, AUTOMATICALLY. Why??? Why is a boys word, "I didn't do it", more believable than a girls, "He did this"??? Especially when the female has less to gain from lying about being raped, than a boy does from denying he raped someone. To say the opposite of that is true, is to have a fundemental misunderstanding of the psychological toll place upon sexual assault victims and both our criminal and civil legal system.
It isn't, but the US justice system sides with the accused unless the accusation can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. In most rape cases there is little to no evidence supporting the accusation.
You missed the point. Again...
You missed the point. You can't look in my garage and see my car is gone right now, can you? But if I said that my car had been stolen, would you automatically jump to the conclusion that I was lying? Take this out of the court mentality for a moment, that's a different issue. I'm not speaking about the burden of proof necessary for a conviction of a specific, alleged perpetrator. I'm speaking of the fact that those not even involved with the prosecutorial aspect, question whether it even OCCURED, not whether they can prove it.
Society doesn't tell women, "I believe you, but we don't have the proof." It tells women, "I don't even believe you."
No, it tells alleged rape victims "We need proof to believe what you're saying." because it is a bad idea to assume any accusation of a crime is true.
You missed the point again. Apparently you can't look at it in terms of sociology.
Most Americans do not want to condemn innocent people. That is the sociology behind this.
I retired last year with 38 years federal service (Civil Service, Dept. of the Army) and have been stationed/working at many different Army bases. You just wouldn't believe the quality of the troops the Army now has and they are lowering the standards all the time. So why not rapists; they let everyone else in and recruiters are "desperate" to meet their quotas.
They don't let in rapists they have not been desperate for some time. For years they have not offered deferments on requirements.
deleted
Correction, Auto, they don't let in "known" rapists. And I beg to differ about how "desperate" they were to get recruits. My son was stationed with the guy from NC, I believe, who raped the 14yr old Iraqi girl and killed her entire family to cover it up. Remember that? This guy should have NEVER been let into the military, let alone, given a weapon and shipped off to Iraq. He had mental issues and was on antidepressants. During the 3rd and 4th years of that war, the military (particularly, the Army) was desperate for recruits. Enlistment was way down and they took in people that, I'm sure now, they regret ever letting into the military.
They need to get these offenders out. The majority of our kids served honorably. These offenders bring shame and dishonor to the entire country and we're no better if we protect them.
kat, even with waivers, they didn't allow people who were convicted of felonies to join. It either had to be a juvenile conviction, or a misdemeanor offense.
raddave
That's not true. They let many offenders in. When the quotas weren't being met, the recruiters fixed records to allow less than desirable ins. A lot of them were gang members and stories were printed on this fact.
Do you know a gang member that is unlikely to have a rap sheet?
The military does a lot of things that keep the problems they have quiet. My guess is the move is being made before the movie "The Invisible War' was released as Panetta made the announcement two days before that. It's called CYA.
I retired last year with 38 years federal service (Civil Service, Dept. of the Army) and have been stationed/working at many different Army bases. You just wouldn't believe the quality of the troops the Army now has and they are lowering the standards all the time. So why not rapists; they let everyone else in and recruiters are "desperate" to meet their quotas.
So your saying Marty that just the Army has lower standards and none of the other branches has any problems with discipline? I don't condone any illegal actions, but wasn't it 4 marines pissing on the dead bodies? And ANY unwanted sexual advance can be an assault dumbsh*t.
Steelermama, I cannot believe you just called a man who spent 38 years in the Civil Service (and, by the way, some Civil Servants died in those wars) a dumbsh*t. What was that all about? Just because he spoke about what he saw? That was totally uncalled for and speaks loudly about the type of person you are.
Steel, Marines are not part of the Army. I am not saying that the rules or people involved are different, but get your facts straight. The Marines are ground forces that serve on naval warships for landing operations and boarding operations. While they have been deployed separately to landlocked war-zones, they are not under the United States Department of the Army. They are under the Department of the Navy.
Let's hope that the problem is faced and dealt with. Sexual assault is traumatizing regardless of where it occurs. It crosses all boundaries, educational levels, zip codes. The victims, attempting to serve our country, require support, empathy, and assistance. The perpetrators should be fully penalized. And preventative measures should be put into place, such as teach-ins, trainings, and classes regarding gender and sex roles. Panetta should be saluted for bringing the issue to the headlines, rather than denials and collusion as shown by Penn State and the Catholic Church.
I was in the military for 20 years, have a graduate degree and worked with people from all walks of life. The military are members of society, trained and expected to do things most people couldn't imagine. The SECDEF is focusing on an important issue. While they might be late to tackle problems sometimes (Walter Reed) the military is more likely to address their problems than Amercian society. Does anyone think the talk about the President's birth country or food stamps are anything other than racism? Yet most of the country pretends that these are valid point of discussion instead of the hate they represent. I hope the military find a away to lessen the frequency of this horrible crime and give those serving the safety they deserve from their partners in arms.
racism,he is a muslim,his daddy,according to law ,determines heritage and he wasn't american. you don't have a clue.
WTH, you just wrote that stupid sh*t up...you don"t have a clue!
JC go back to the books.. You are nuts if you think its racism...You must be another one with a chip on your shoulder. Watch out if it falls off it might cripple ya.
Everything is racism...Wonder if the sexual misconduct is as well.. Some of you idiots need mental help.
I find it quite interesting, Jean, that you would bash JC for his comment, but totally ignore jerry mcdonald's stupid and ignorant comment. A comment so completely ignorant of the laws that govern a person's citizenship in this country, that it's embarassing.
Watch out, JC, if you call a spade a spade, they'll accuse you of being angry and having a chip on your shoulder! Kind of overused and outdated, but still used by many who parrot what they hear on talk radio.
to JC -- I agree with you. I too am a military veteran. Before enlisting, I occasionally dated at a highly thought of US military academy in New York State.
I know that on one occasion,one of the cadets and his cronies used an off campus event to set up a young woman to be raped -- they did not succeed because a senior cadet walked in on the attempt and stopped it. Yet nothing ever happened to Cadet BB. Under the rug. I sometimes wonder what kind of a wartime officer this criminal turned out to be.
Rape is an act of hate and violence, the height of bullying, often commited by those who are offended when others don't recognize their unearned entitlements. Rapists are bloody cowards, IMHO.
Let's try a military rapist and sexual abuser as we try civilian offenders. And let's force them to register as sex offenders if found guilty. A Military enlistment should not be a license to commit rape.
We live in one country with two political parties (bolstered by the outdated Electoral College system). Time was when people helped each other in this one country, and respected the President, no matter from which political party. It isn't just the racism that is upsetting now, but the division of the country caused by hate that could weaken us so much that we fall apart. Give it up! President Obama was born in Hawaii, the end.
Well some of them do get education after they came home from Vietnam, I hired 79 of them over the 40 years, but many also showed me the little convenience girl they had "cleaning" their room, that must be why we got 600,000 mixed types just from there. My present sec is one of them, many was adopted to here, so sex always happens with any soldier or contract soldier--! --but this way we did have a supply of kids, although the actual women had to wait an entire year to get here even if they were married to the GI!
What the hell are you talking about?
Soldiers having a lot of sex with the enemy, 600,000 children were made in just Vietnam, possibly you must be young to not know! And if they married them there was a one year quarantine waiting time, I met many of them when they finally had waited on year to come here!---different kind of Freedom --huh! our own soldiers could not even get their own wives here! Just goes to show what US really think about those heroes!
Its a little to little a little to late for those who have felt the pressures and the ignorance of the sergeants, and officers who have chosen to ignore such allegations I know of someone who was raped not to long ago and she was basically branded a liar to those she reported it to why should anyone report it if they are going to the ones put on the stick as guilty not much reason huh?
There are several levels to report it and a proses did she report it correctly? My wife is the rep for this type of issue and she does every thing by the book.
16 deleted, jerry mcdonald-4075325 beginning a thread by calling everyone 'psychotic'. Don't do that.
You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
she do touch me . . . I didn't give her no permission to touch me . . . she bee sexually assaulting me . . .
Time for the military to start policing. They rammed everything else down our throats, why stop now?
This doesn't even mention the number of MST claims filed with the VA each year. Would be interesting to know the stats on that!
Things do change, I was in for 22 years and nothing like that happened. The world is a changing and not all for the good. And of course I retired in 1976.
ronfree,
it did happen when you were in. I worked at the Staff Judge Advocate's office at an Army base in the 70's and multiple court martials were held... charge was rape. It's been happening forever but many were afraid of the "maleness" of the military to report it.
You are absolutely correct, descrs. This is very common. Remember Tailhook(sp?)?
Ron,
1 out of every 4 women are assaulted. That's not just in the military, that's 1 out of 4, period. That means, not only did it happen, It's happened to someone you know.
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/SexualAssaultStatistics.pdf
http://www.rainn.org/statistics
"Well some of them do get education after they came home from Vietnam, I hired 79 of them over the 40 years, but many also showed me the little convenience girl they had "cleaning" their room, that must be why we got 600,000 mixed types just from there. My present sec is one of them, many was adopted to here, so sex always happens with any soldier or contract soldier--! --but this way we did have a supply of kids, although the actual women had to wait an entire year to get here even if they were married to the GI!"
Can someone translate this?
In the Viet Nam days the commanders of the bases allowed every protitute in town to come on base on Saturdays. Sexual assalts go away when the US government provides access to women. It worked great. The commanders understood basic human needs and provided the means to satisfy them.
JS,
You're wrong. Sexual assault has nothing to do with sex, it's about power and control. That's why, I'm assuming you're a man, can go years without having sex, and still not rape a woman. Access to willing partners means nothing, when a willing partner isn't what rape is about.
No kidding there are unreported sexual assaults. When your supervisors are the ones doing it and threatening you with punishment and the ranking structure basically guarantees the highest ranking person's word to be taken over the lower what do you think the reaction will be? Just deal with it and get out of the unit or the military as soon as you can. That was my reaction anyway.
That is not the way it is any more. Things have changed a lot. I know an E-6 that was almost Court marshaled for adultery(consensual) instead he was bumped down to e-4.
So, they've changed it all in the last 6 years that I've been out? A lot of my current girl friends still serving say there are still challenges.
we all know those stats are inflated and INCLUDE "false accusations" and unfounded...
I concur. Being associated with this organization for over 40 years, ALL I can say if a person brought forth a complaint for even feelin the slightest bit uncomfortable, people were counseled and reassigned. Classes are conducted annually, command climate surveys conducted almost annually, mostly dealin with leadership issues, includin race and sex discrimination.
Many of the charges arise from people passin out and being sexually assaulted. There has been a large upswing in sexual "assault" of passed out soldiers in the day room and barracks. When reported DNA rape kit is always completed.
Since the late 1990's Army policy in Korea is that if a women has even only one drink, consents to sex and the next day says she was taken advantaged, then it was rape. The stockade at Camp Humphries was full of sex charges.
So I would be highly surprised if sexual assault is greater in the US Army than on a college campus. Don't get me wrong, one assault is too many, but the problem isn't only a military one, but one of society as a whole. Look up Reggie Love and Tea Bagged.
Let me add that a large % of the assaults on passed out soldiers are male on male. Those reportin that would be a small % of the men assaulted. How da ya live that down?
Having been in the service, having had children (both male and female) in the services, I regret to say that I think that Pannetta may be right about this. Indeed, from what I've seen, I think the 19,000 estimate may be light.
Societal pressures, not military necessity, heralded the wholesale opening of the military to women, but despite the warnings of traditionalists, I don't think the brass and the civilian administrators really prepared for the reality and they've been slow (if not totally remiss) in moving to address the resultant problems.
I'm mindful, too, of the countervailing concerns, that women use their sexuality to "control" their military environment and obligations. It's an unfunny joke that nothing causes female soldiers to get pregnant like a pending deployment and, as in civilian life, it's sometimes too easy to "cry rape" when the real gripe is something else. I don't have a good answer for any of it, but I will back the Secretary's assertion that the matter needs addressed.
Over 100 years ago, in "Tommy Adkins", Kipling cautioned that "...single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints..." and that caution applies today. You're not going to do away with the testosterone of a bunch of young men who are being prepared to go out and fight and kill and any attempt to do so will not only fail but be disastrous. By the same token, some effort needs to be made to make sure that those testosterone fueled urges are channeled in an appropriate direction and that female service members, particularly, are not subjected to unwanted and unseemly attention and even assault, because they are out there risking their lives for us, too.
@ Oldfarte - Bravo! The most reasoned, and well said comment to date. And too many people here are going "Kipling who?" What's plaster??" <g>
I was in the Navy 72-93 and spent time in Olongopo. My squadrons (VQ-3 and VQ4) had female aircrew years before most other commands did, and while I never heard a whisper of any forced assaults, there were all forms of consensual pairings.....rather like at a college.
At the core is the issue of "no means NO!" and better training for all hands on it may be the lynch-pin. Women - stand up and say No!, men - don't be an ass about it if they aren't interested.
Sadly, instead of a solid understanding of this ground rule, too many people will think the answer is prudetry and "zero tolerance" and expecting everyone to turn into plaster saints.
TY, Mr. Burrill. May I also commend Tyler's and Chris' comments at #1.18 and 1.19, supra?
Bravo, oldefarte! In order for anything to change, you must first acknowledge that there is a problem!
I don't expect people to be plaster saints, but adults. That should be enough. I'm a bit old fashioned; it's one thing when women volunteer, but the original reason that women were not drafted (going back 1000 years) was that it was felt that women should not be assaulted in battle, nothing to do with after the battle is over. If women want to go to combat, it is a different story. What is difficult is finding that they are in combat against their friends. When it is by consent, that is again, a different story. There are a lot of less than saintly pairings that actually form relationships. But if this is yet another way to make relationships more superficial, then people should think twice. And never, ever, attack another person sexually.
Thank you sir!! It's nice to hear this from a man, who has witnessed it taking place or even stepping outside of complying with the "man club" and believing a person's story!!
Once again this administration can't wait to give the military a black eye, if these are truly the facts on what is happening in our armed forces shouldn't it have been handeled without letting the whole world in on it. Seems like another error in judgement buy those currently in the administration who so often act without regard to the consequences of their actions.
The Pentagon self-reported. Not Obama, Goofball.
And why is it exactly that these crimes should be "hidden from public view?" Civilians who commit these crimes are on a sex offender registry and these guys should be as well!
Seems the rapists acted without regard for the consequences of their actions Steven. Many things are happening in this war that are hidden from public view or there would probably be very little support for it by the American people.
You are so eager to attack Obama that you overlook the obvious facts of the matter. The black eye was not given to the military by this administration but by the servicemen who committed the assaults.
If Panetta and the Pentagon covered it up they would be no better than the Catholic Church- or more recently Penn State officials. Or do you think we should send our daughters off to war and have to worry that they'll be raped?
Steve,
Considering that it's our money that pays for the military, and our friends/family that fight in it, and OUR military is under civilian control through our ELECTED politicians, than NO, this shouldn't be kept secret. That's how problems get this big in the first place.