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Department of Energy and Environmental Protection
This June 2011 photo by the Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental Protection shows a worker examining a dead mountain lion, or cougar, at the Sessions Woods Wildlife Center in Burlington, Conn. Tests determined that the cat, which was struck by a car, had traveled all the way from South Dakota.
Cougar sightings persist in the East nearly a year after the big predators were declared extinct in the region, a determination that some don't believe. Others want to make cougars' presence a big reality.
Just this month Gary Sanderson, sports editor at the Greenfield, Mass.-based Recorder newspaper, reported cougar sightings on a farm near the Vermont border, by an Amtrak engineer who claimed his train's video captured images of the creatures near Leverett, and from readers in the region who claim to have pictures of cougars.
"I've been besieged" with sightings ever since writing a column 10 years ago about hunting with a trapper who became a believer in cougars' presence after finding a footprint way too large to be a bobcat in Conway, along the Deerfield River, Sanderson told msnbc.com.
Sanderson said he has since written 50 columns devoted to cougar sightings and has been told by wildlife officials he was irresponsible to promote the notion of their presence.
With rare exception, there is no credible evidence of cougars living in the wild east of the Mississippi River, government and private researchers told msnbc.com.
In Connecticut this week, a CBS radio report and a Greenwich Time newspaper story both cited the growth of cougar sightings since last spring. That's when a cougar first spotted in Greenwich on June 5 was killed by a car six days later in nearby Milford. NBC Connecticut reported at the time that scientists studying the 140-pound animal's DNA concluded the cougar had wandered about 1,800 miles east, all the way from the Black Hills of South Dakota through Minnesota and Wisconsin before finding its way to Greenwich, about 70 miles outside New York City.
Even though he is a state away, Sanderson said, "I felt vindicated" when the news emerged about the cougar in Milford. "I didn't think they would admit that it was wild."
A Connecticut group called Cougars of the Valley has an online petition with about 250 signatures asking the state General Assembly to hold a hearing on cougars, also known as mountain lions, pumas and panthers. The group's website also hosts a map of Connecticut cougar sightings and comments from readers claiming authorities disparaged their reports about seeing cougars.
No evidence?
Mark McCollough, an endangered species specialist with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in the Orono, Maine, field office, was the lead scientist in the agency's study declaring the Eastern cougar extinct. (See full study report here.)
McCollough told msnbc.com that there is no scientific evidence that Eastern cougars have somehow survived 150 years after being driven from the region. The last known real Eastern cougar was shot dead in 1938 in Maine, he said.
"That's not to say they don’t show up from time to time," McCollough said of cougars, but most reports of sightings are misidentfications, such as coyotes or bobcats, which are about one-fourth the size of cougars.
Officials have documented 110 cougars loose in the Eastern United States and Canada since 1900, he said. They come from two main sources:
- Escaped pets: At least 1,000 cougars are known to be held in captivity in the East, he said, and many that have turned up loose have been genetically traced to South American ancestry, indicating they were part of the exotic pet trade. "They didn’t walk here," McCollough said.
- Dispersers: Like the wandering cougar killed in Connecticut, some head east from the West and north from Florida, home to about 150 panthers. Cougars regularly show up on trail cameras set up privately across the country, McCollough said, but they're not on cameras in the East.
One cougar from Florida, where about 150 panthers live in the wild, was killed in Georgia in 2008. That same year, police shot a cougar that wandered into Chicago's North Side.
But there is no scientific evidence, no scat (droppings), no confirmed sightings that cougars are establishing homes and breeding east of the Mississippi and north of Florida, McCollough said.
Courtesy of The Cougar Network
Green: established populations
Blue = Class I Confirmation
Red = Class II Confirmation
A map by The Cougar Network, a non-profit research group, shows only a few confirmed sightings of cougars in the East since 1990.
"We just don't take those kinds of sightings seriously anymore," said Mark Dowling, a leader of the network. Pictures turn out to be house cats or even golden retrievers.
Cougars couldn't go undetected, he said. "They betray their presence readily," he said, by becoming road kill or chasing people's pets.
The Midwest is seeing a resurgence, he said, including new populations in South Dakota, North Dakota and Nebraska. Individual dispersing animals have been seen in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan and Louisiana.
Christopher Spatz, a southern New York resident who is president of the Cougar Rewilding Foundation, told msnbc.com that wandering cougars are young males looking for females and needing to get away from their fathers' territories before their fathers kill them.
"Young cats out on their own are troublemakers," said Spatz, an advocate for reintroducing cougars into the wilds of the East.
"We need them everywhere. Big predators help regulate ecosystems,"Spatz said.
After wolves were reintroduced at Yellowstone National Park in 1995, elk stopped eating cottonwoods and aspens, Spatz said. Vegetation came back, and biodiversity, including beavers, birds and fish, expanded.
Without cougars and other predators, there is an overabundance of whitetail deer in the East, resulting in lack of understory.
"Cougars' presence would change the way deer browse," Spatz said. "They would keep moving; you would see regeneration of your understory."
Cougars are rarely a threat to people, pets and livestock, he said. California, where there are an estimated 5,000 to 6,000 cougars and no hunting allowed, proves "we can coexist."
McCollough, the wildlife biologist, and Dowling, from the Cougar Network, which doesn't take a stand on repopulation, said chances of recolonization efforts in the East are remote, as people likely won't want large predators living near them.
Cougars, which can leap 30 feet and reach speeds of 50 mph, are carnivores whose usual diet consists mainly of deer, elk, turkey rabbits porcupine, coyote and other small mammals, according to The Cougar Fund, a non-profit trying to protect cougars. But the animals do prey on people, pets and livestock. Since 1890, "only 20 people" have been killed by cougar attacks, says the group, which also offers tips on how to fight off cougars and guidelines to keep children and pets safe. Several non-fatal mauling attacks on people are reported yearly.
'They are here'
But one cougar advocate, Bill Betty of Matunuck, R.I., said people in the Northeast already coexist with cougars, because, he said, they are present and breeding.
"Every state in the East will eventually acknowledge they are here," Betty told msnbc.com. He said he has had 14 daytime encounters as close as 10 feet with cougars -- and nine family members have had 30 encounters.
"I've chased mountain lions away from kids," he said.
Betty lectures all over the country about mountain lions and has a 90-minute slideshow and other show-and-tell items such as a skull, scat samples and photos. He said he knows what a cougar looks like.
At a lecture in Somers, Conn., he said, 37 people raised their hands when asked if they'd seen a cougar.
"They are here," he said. "Those who say they are not are lying."
"Mature, responsible adults and schoolchildren can tell the difference between a cougar and a big yellow dog," he said.
Officials say they still don't believe Betty and that he does not use scientific data in his presentations, a charge he rejects.
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It would not surprise me to learn that cougars are indeed reestablishing themselves in the northeast. There is abundant food for them and plenty of open spaces in areas like the Adirondacks, White Mountains, etc. where they can live without having excessive contact with people. I see cougars reestablishing themselves in the northeast as a good thing. With virtually all of their predators wiped out, the deer population has gotten out of control in the region. This has caused it's own problems with insufficient food to support the deer population in the winter and deer increasingly coming into residential areas. A reestablishment of a cougar population would help bring the deer population under control and provide much needed balance to the ecosystem.
I used to live in the hills near Ripley, NY, the snowbelt for New York, along Lake Erie. the deer population is huge there, small whitetails. A neighbor of mine shot and killed a deer, he realized he had forgotten his knife. so he covered the deer with a blanket, went home, got his knife (about a mile away), came back and his deer was gone. It had been dragged some distance away, and covered up with leaves and dirt. While talking to the game warden about it, the game warden said the only animal around that would cover up the carcass is probably a cougar, and the game warden had seen several in the area in the past 10 years. He told my neighbor, "What's spooky? The cougar probably watched you from hiding while you were stalking and shooting the deer. "
As this article featured, top predators like wolves and cougars are biological diversity, a strand in the web of all life. Top predators are as vital and valuable to our ecosystems as all plant and animal biological diversity as they are the creators and saviors of Earth's ecosystems, all the reasons man breathes.
Before the white man showed up on this continent, cougars were native to every state, performing their job for our terrestrial ecosystems, keeping all life in balance, especially the native plant biological diversity, the homes/habitat, food, shelter, cover and nurseries for all animal biological diversity. Plants/trees are at the root of all terrestrial life; plants/trees are considered the most significant evolutionary event in history.
Protecting our plant biological diversity, saves the entire ecosystem and all life, thus perhaps, like the American wolf, a keystone specie, the cougar should be brought home.
Westfield NY here in Chautauqua County in western NY near Ripley, Brocton, Portland, Jamestown, Erie PA. I have never seen a cougar on any my hundreds of camping forays into our woods but I have heard them at night with their spooky yowls. There is no doubt as to what was making the chilling noise. A co-worker and friend recently moved into a house out in the country on the escarpment and has seen a cougar and hears it all the time. I know lots of other people who have heard and seen cougars in our area. Do not listen to the NYS Conservation people that try to tell us they do not exist here because they do..The bear population is growing and how cool is that.
There are 7 BILLION humans draining rivers to use the toilet and fertilize deserts. Humans are also destroying oceans and air with fossil fuels and other stuff.
How would we address the eco-system there? How is that addressed?
We can say all day long that other species are inconvenient, but what about us? What other species has total planetary destruction on their agenda because they're too lazy to walk from the deforested land called their home to deforested land called the mall.
I saw a hundred thirty pounder last Saturday night at Frankie's.
The red headed "cougar" in the picture isn't too bad looking. I would however, have to point out that the size of that puss on the table is enormous!
I live in NY. We see cougars too, all the time. It's too bad, that children can't play outside without a parent watching them. The cougars generally think of them as food. The smaller the child, the better.
I'm sure you don't live in a tent or "shop" in the woods...
I have to totally agree with the first 5 posters regarding why we need the cougars here. On the flip side I am wondering if the US Fish and Wildlife and researchers don't want people to know they are here. To do so might cause panic with people and then we also have lots of nuts out there that would be looking to kill them just for the fun of it or cause they don't want them here. Unfortunately many feel it's all about humans and animals have no rights. On the contrary, because all animals could survive and thrive without humans yet we could not survive without them. Kill all the animals and the ecosystem would suffer and we would be next. Also many feel that when an animal interfers with humans in any way they have the right to kill it. To them there is no such thing as to cohabit with the animals. Such a shame that so many animals suffer from human ignorance. One day it may kill us all.
It is funny that the New Hampshire fish and game deny the existence of cougars in the state yet many have seen them. We have reports annually from the north country all the way down to Concord. My wife has seen them and clearly knows the difference from a bob cat or coyote. One of our weekly outdoor writers is also convinced. He has recorded several sightings and has written about cougars in his column. Wake up, they are here and we just have to admit it!
Actually, in the upper Midwest to Northeast, the deer population has grown so much that even expanding the deer hunting season may barely make a dent in the population size! And that's with a fast-growing coyote population, too. As such, it's not surprising that we're getting reports of cougar sightings east of the Mississippi....
I had drinks with a couple of cougars just last night....They were thick...
Bookem' Dano. And good morning wildlife lovers!
About 8 years ago while driving south on RT 88 at about Cobleskill NY I saw a large (what I thought was a dog) trotting across the highway when I pulled along side it was no dog no bob cat no coyote it was a very large mountain lion. I didn't stop to ask where it came from all I know it was 7:30 AM I was sober and that was amazing to see this beautiful animal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
We saw cougar footprints on a deer trail in the mountains of western Massachusetts while backpacking. It is surprising how wilderness like it can be. We saw not a soul in two days of hiking.
Well...north of the 48 we have'm here in Quebec ...I seen them a few times and they are awesome creatures. We even have panthers...myself seeing one once...they have been around for at least the last 15 years that I know of...so Maine , Mass & Vermont you DO have them since they respect no boarders.
"With rare exception, there is no credible evidence of cougars living in the wild east of the Mississippi River, government and private researchers told msnbc.com."
The official government position on Cougars East of the Mississippi is;
"Except for the actual Cougars that are East of the Mississippi River, Cougars are extinct East of the Mississippi River - If you find evidence to the contrary, you are subject to fines and penalties for violating public policy."
PS - Bigfoot does not exist, and Flying Saucers are also figments of people's imagination.
The official word is there are no cougars east of the Miss.? Was this the same group who told us there were no wolves in Wy even when they had dead specimens? So, from a person living in the area where the wolves now eat everything, join the fun! introduce cougars, and wolves to central park.
Mark McCollough and the State of Maine, especially, the Sate of Maine, has a lot to lose by recognizing the Eastern cougar as a existing species in Maine. Maine's revenue from hunting license sales has plummeted in recent years and the recognition of cougars in Maine would cripple the Inland and Fisheries dept. and the landscape of hunting opportunities in Maine would be forever changed. There are to many sightings, by reputable people, to ignore the fact that there is, at least, a small, growing population of cougar's in Maine.
Scientists have declared they are extinct, so that is the final word. Scientists are always right, I read it on here all the time. Don't let the actual facts or your lying eyes deceive you. They are not there. Watch the shiny object in my left hand and ignore my right hand. The government has spoken.
It's the Eastern Cougar that's extinct. the cougars that have been seen in NY and elsewhere are either western cougars or Florida panthers. there is no evidence that cougars are establilshed in the east. Established means breeding populations. Until someone sees a mama cougar with offspring, there will be no evidence that cougars are established in the east. US Fish & Wildlife experts are right. Amateurs in the blogosphere don't know what they're talking about.
Unhappy, when was the last time you heard of a child being taken by a cougar, in the east or in the west? Though I wish many parents would keep a better eye on their kids, there are kids outside, all the time, without any cougar incidents.
Roy, thank you for trying to start another conspiracy theory!
I'm surprised Roy hasn't used this article to denigrate the current President in someway. He seems quite obessed with his fondness for accusing him for all that is wrong in the world.
Cougars are not a threat to people, pets and livestock, he said.
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Bull. I live in North Idaho and have run into several in the wild. Buck and I were walking near Enaville last Haloween and ran into one. I also know people who've lost their dog or cat to cougars. There have been several runners and bikers killed by cougars.
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tiredofhypocrites-794827
Unhappy, when was the last time you heard of a child being taken by a cougar, in the east or in the west? ---- About ten years ago a young boy was mauled by one along the shore of Lake McDonald in Glacier N.P.
I pack a .40 cal handgun when Buck and I are out in the wilderness for protection. They're there, they're cunning,and they are dangerous.
I live in Virginia where my husband saw a cougar in the back corner of our field. The ground was hard and dry so he didn't have any footprint evidence, but he's lived here all his life and knows the difference between a bobcat and cougar ... also between a big yellow dog and cougar. There have been a NUMBER of cougar sightings in the Blue Ridge (and I remember a few years ago when two - a black and tan and a black one escaped from somewhere and were last seen in MD heading to the west where the Blue Ridge is ... and THOSE two were opposite sex and "intact") as well as the rest of the Appalachian range. For that many sightings in that many places, the indications would be that they HAVE set up a breeding population East of the Mississippi. Now, I'm not saying that they didn't travel from the Western states or up from Florida ... but they ARE here and they ARE breeding. There is plenty of cover in the hollers of Appalachia for the cubs to be hidden by the parents which is what ALL cats - large or small - do in areas where there is danger. You aren't likely to see the cubs in the mountains because they are hidden until they are big enough to defend themselves and hunt for themselves. But FWIW, there HAVE been sightings in the mountains of CUBS which have all been explained away by USF&W as being half-grown bobcats even though the cubs have LONG TAILS.
I've seen one in Western MA/ Eastern NY on the border. They are real and, hopefully, coming back.
If the east needs cougars they can have the ones we have, especially the one that killed my neighbors dog! put a couple in central park to amuse the joggers, got some extra wolves they can have too! how about some cuddly grizzly bears, fish and game have been going crazy dumping these animals in my backyard why not put some in the east so they can be enjoyed, or if people are patient enough they will return on their own, personally I think we should relocate them and be done with it, if they don't do something about the deer population some disease will come through and wipe out the entire population, its also possible to start the hunting season earlier to thin the population. the one thing about this story I see allot of is the advocates will never admit a cougar might exist, they would deny it if it was sitting in their living room, and just because one got run over by a car doesn't mean it lived their. and yes big yellow dogs can climb trees. ya know something I don't think those activist know what a big yellow dog looks like, to them they look like cats, so in their minds those are all dog sightings. what they are really saying is please don't take away my grant money. that means no more paid vacation, no more future income, no more expensive toys. they will have to get a job. yep its all your imagination just give them some more grant money and they will prove it to you.
If they can figure out where a cat came from through test, why cant they figure out where Obama came from?
Jim--- If you live in Westfield NY, then you certainly know of the Town of North East PA, on the border between New York and Pennsylvania. Go into any of the taverns there and the locals will tell you of the cougar shot and killed there last year, and a photograph may even be displayed behind the bar. I never questioned the validity of these stories because so many people are telling the same ones, but this makes me wonder. Is it possible these national studies are not collecting all the data from local game officers? One conspiracy theory I've heard related to this is that the cougars are being imported to kill off the deer population. The reason is supposed to be because insurance companies pay out millions each year due to vehicle/ deer collisions. Of course, you will hear all sorts of tall tales from people who are intoxicated by 11 am.
In Minnesota we've got bears, wolves, sometimes lynx, bobcats, and plenty of deer, rabbits, etc.
Why do people try to kill lynx and wolves? While I realize they may be a threat to livestock, and pets what makes them less worthy of life and a habitat than other animals? They're threatened and endangered species throughout various regions that were their homes.
We should be very careful in our willingness to push other species to the brink of extinction or into extinction.
Humans may be sentient, but we are not GODS. We aren't even masters of the sciences. We haven't discovered all there is to discover in the universe, so making life and death decisions about an entire species not our own isn't right.
People DO NOT need to be that spread out. We don't need that much land to survive. It's pure greed to think otherwise.
Got to Love Jerome from Quebec. "Well...north of the 48 we have'm here in Quebec ...I seen them a few times and they are awesome creatures. We even have panthers...myself seeing one once" and again.... "they have been around for at least the last 15 years that I know of..." Cougar, Mountain Lion, Panther, Puma, they are all the same animal. Whether black, blonde, brown, or Even Pink! It's just like when they said there are no Jaguar's left in North America, when in fact they have been making their way back into southern Arizona for a few years now. I think that there are a lot of sightings that are mis-identified on a lot of creatures, especially from those that have seen cougars a "few" times, to even "seeing a panther once" and not even realizing that they are, in fact, one in the same. It would be very surprising to me for the eastern cats to be extinct. They are one of the most elusive creatures on the planet. I live in an area where there are 1000's of cougars and spend lots of time in the hills. I have only seen them twice in my life. Does that mean they're almost extinct? Hardly not! There's nothing more elusive than a big cat, unless you're looking for a "Squatch", as "Bobo" would say.
Err, I mean Bigfoot. heheh
Yikes! Be careful when Googling to find out more about cougars. Sheesh!
Judging from all the crass YouTube cougar "hunting" videos, a number of "sportsmen" would rather not see cougars (and other native predators) in the wild unless they're allowed to shoot them as entertainment, or kill them with cover stories about protecting livestock or domestic pets. Man is an honorable species, of course.
So you would rather not see a species reestablished then allow hunting?
Unfortunately after yrs of trying to re-establish the wolves that is exactly what hunters want to do. So many worked long and hard to save the wolves and then you have men like the Gov. of Idaho who wants to go and kill every one. Palin (another idiot) allows hunters to use helicoptors to hunt them down. So what is the point of trying to increase the population when hunters will kill them just so they can prove they are men and hang the carcasses on their walls. Here in the Northeast they wanted to bring the wolves back and many hunters objected cause it would have an impact on the deer population. Yet those same hunters say they have to kill the deer cause there are too many. Go figure? Many hunters also kill the coyotes because they say coyotes kill the deer, yet research says otherwise. When preforming necropsies on coyotes they found very little evidence of deer in the guts of coyotes. They manly feed on small prey, yet the killing of these creatures continues. Again human ignorance. BTW many farmers love the coyotes because during harvest time those coyotes sit on the edge of the field waiting to eat all the rodents that feed on their crops. I have lived in the country for 23 yrs and have never ever had a problem with them. In the winter we see their tracks right on our deck and we hear them every night with their yipping and howling. Nature at her best.
I hope Heather Locklear makes a full recovery, and seeks out my knee to sit on.
as long as i have a face, she has a place to sit..
umgawa, "mmpfmlppfmmmfplmmpfmmmm" is all I can say about that.
Let's not derail the story about wild pussy.
Here in Central Kansas the Fish & Game Commission say there are no big cats or cougars. But every time someone catches one in a live trap or one is found shot they get mad. A couple of years ago a man caught one of those non existent cats in a live trap. It had a tracking mechanism under the skin and the Fish & Game Commission had no trouble at all finding it. NOW ISN'T THAT STRANGE.
I live in southeast Kansas and I will guarantee there are MANY different types of cats that have been planted by the fish and game commission, they will tell you a different story, I have personally see a large black cat with in 100 feet of my back fence, and 2 other tan/brown cats with tails atleast 3 foot long, the game warden told me "that was a large bobcat" NOT WITH A TAIL THAT LONG!!!!! they are here, and breeding,
I believe you. I live in NW Missouri and we've had several sightings, and even attacks on livestock with identifiable claw/bite markings and the conservation tried to play it off. The say any sightings are probably bobcats. And when true hard evidence, like a shooting of a mountain lion, comes up they claim it was wandering from the dakotas (or some other place) looking for a mate and that there are "no established populations" in our area. Bull Crap to me.... we all know they're here and try our best to watch our backs when in the woods.
I believe both of you! ..............You want to know why?.............Because........... I'am Batman!...........
There's millions of them in NYC.
In 1989 a cougar crossed Barkersville road right in front of my car near Galway in Saratoga County NY. I had no trouble identifying it because it was just walking. I stopped and watched it go across an open field. The map showing sightings is correct as the indicators are in the same area of the state.
Pam, i'm on the Sacandaga. A few years back one was sighted just outside Broadalbin, I saw the photos.. very cool stuff!!!!
Pam, I'm from Ballston Spa and I have not seen a cougar yet (would love to) but I know there are wolves here. Had one pass right in front of us at about 150 ft. one fall night. We all know what coyotes look like and this baby was more than twice the size of any coyote. If I ever see one (cougar) I will make sure I wait weeks before telling anyone. Too many idiots out there that would be tracking it so they could kill it.
Norse I'm just north of you On the Sacandaga Lake, they have spoted in this area as well!! GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Pam,
We lived on the Glen Wild Road in Barkersville. In the 70s and 80s my father and I would track Cougars in the snow. I understand recently there has been numerous sightings of a family of them in the area. One of the reasons "scat" isn't reported is because they tend to bury it.
Cougars are as extinct as moose in the area.
Rancher Bob, Sometimes for the safety of the animals it is better to keep that info more or less out of the media. Too many nuts out there. Best for us to just enjoy them when we can. Last might those coyotes were yipping away in my back yard like crazy. Some don't like the sound but I love listening to them. Now the sound of a fisher sounds just like an animal being killed and sends shivers up my spine even though I know it's just the sound of their call. Also today it is 3 yrs since my dad passed away and he was the biggest Giants fan ever. Always teased him when they lost and I'd getting him laughing so hard:) LOL! But this yr I will be rooting for them in memory of my dad. GO GIANTS!!!!
Well I saw one while portaging between two ponds in upstate New York back in 2001 near Floodwood Pond when a Deer came crashing through the forest and right behind it was a Mountain Lion. My Cousin who lives outside of Albany NY this past summer, saw one at dusk walking down a dirt road.
But you must remember "If the Government says they don't exist" then they don't exist...
Same here. I live in Western NY and hunt. I've seen one twice in the last 5-years as I sat in a blind. One came within 50 feet of my blind, stopped, took a whiff of the air, rolled over a few times in the snow, and went on its way. Many other people in my area have reported seeing them along with a Black Panter where they had photos of the animal. Beautiful animals.
One of the most beautiful animals in the cat family. Great color, extremely powerful,...ripped muscles. But wait!...I live in Georgia and see many cougars on a daily basis. They roam the Malls, the grocery stores, high school sporting events, the movie theater. Plunging neckline, very high high heels, war paint slathered on their face, ....yes indeed, a very dangerous species.
I tawt I taw a puddy cat.
If you're not old enough, you won't get this. :)
Of course they're not extinct. I know several, including the one who lives next door.
In lower west michigan area there have been numerious sightings one actually in the back yard where i had the DNR out the next day checking and confirming they were cougar tracks. a friend of mine from petosky mi area who shot one and has pics posted
In central Michigan the DNR has swore there were no cougars for decades. Now finally with the use of trail cameras and attacks on horses they finally have to admit to it. In fact they now have a statement in the DNR Hunting guide that it is illegal to shoot them (interesting that they didn't exist). The rumor has been that the DNR planted them. We also have had several sightings of black ones. Those are suspected to be pets were let loose when the owners couldn't handle them anymore. I have not seen them yet. I have seen black bears in our area several times. The DNR for the longest time have denied that black bears were in our area as well.
Spatz says they pose no threat to people or pets. I live in Washington State, my daughter's little dog was taken by a cougar from the woods behind our house. It was a young cat and the dog had lots of fur. I heard the dog screaming from back in the trees and didn't think before charging in to try to find her. It was dusk and dark amongst the trees but I could hear her crying and an animal growling, I nearly tripped over them. This startled the cat which dropped the dog and disappeared without making a sound. The dog was able to limp out of the trees on its own and I didn't really understand what I'd seen until I had a chance to think about it. The dog survived the attack, the animal had her in it's jaws but got her by the shoulders instead of the neck. Cougars are stealthy, cougars are accomplished at staying hidden. The idea that they will show themselves readily is wrong. They will show themselves inadvertently, especially young, inexperienced animals, but full grown, mature cougars are accomplished hunters and very good at hiding. That is a primary reason that those who hunt them, usually use dogs to track and tree them.
Of my god, cougars acting like cougars and hunting?
Tony,
I'm not condemning the cat, it WAS doing what it was supposed to do and I live on acreage several miles from any town. I hold no animosity toward the cougar. I'm just making the point that these animals do pose a threat to pets and people, co-existence means understanding that threat, not denying or under or overstating it.
Sigh -- I, too, live next to a fragmented ecosystem. The cougar was extirpated in my neck of the woods, but we still maintain coyotes, great horned owls and foxes. We also have little dogs, and we take care of ours. They are supervised while outdoors. We don't want them harming a strand in the web of all life, and we don't want a specie of biological diversity hurting them. Dogs shouldn't be wandering helter skelter as they are an introduced, unnatural predator in our woods. Dogs also kill biological diversity, the rivets holding spaceship Earth, altogether.
It's referred to as being a responsible pet owner, responsible for the damage and death of other species and the welfare and well-being of our cherished pets. Actually, it's quite simplistic.
I agree, these animals DO pose a threat to humans and pets. Just this week we had an incident where a mountain lion took a large dog. A young child on a hiking trail was attacked and killed a few years ago. We don't exactly live in mountain lion terrain, but I've seen them on my property. The deer population has exploded recently, and I think they are following their normal prey.
I do think they should be reintroduced in the East. If people take the proper precautions and learn how to co-exist with these magnificent animals, you'll see the deer population come back into balance along with the rest of the flora and fauna.
skor how much damage could a dog truly do to an ecosystem, come on. The guys said he lived in the country, where dogs should be allowed to roam freely doing what they love.
Panzer....there are some people who just don't get that country living is different than city living. We've got packs of coyotes....there kinda like a dog.....all over around here. I actually think they have brought some balance to things in this area.
The latest problem the DEC has caused is a nuisence black bear problem. The black bear had made a tremendous resurgence in Northern NJ and the Orange County area of NY. The bears were becoming used to living with humans and soon discovered that going to town to eat was far easier than roaming around the hills, especially since nobody ever bothered them. Once it got to be a big problem, they must have looked at some map that showed a big green area on it called The Catskill Park. I'm sure some biologist decided that because there was this big green area that was a state park, there must not be any people there, so it would be a great place to move the problem bears to. I never seen a live bear in this area until I was 26. (although I had seen tracks, so I know that they were around) I never seen another until I was 31. When I was 42 I seen another one. Then it was like a pestulence with the damn things! There were dozens of them breaking into homes, barns, cars....you name it.
The guy that takes a walk with his dog is damaging the eco-system? Come on skor....the real damage is done when 'experts' get involved. I enjoy the outdoors as much as any person that ever lived. I love nature and consider myself part of it. I don't have a dog right now.....but if I did, we'd be taking walks through the woods and fields. I also agree that my dogs shouldn't be a bother to anyone else and shouldn't harass the wildlife.
Skor,
I understand your message, please know the dog was let out to go potty, we never let our pets run wild, they are indoor animals and only go out when we take them for a walk or let them out to go do their business in which case we stand by while they do it so we can let them back in. In this case, I let our two dogs out and left the room long enough to go get my toothbrush so I could watch them while I brushed my teeth. I left the slider open but closed the screen. I was only out of the room for about one minute. That's all it took. If that makes me an irresponsible pet owner, then I guess I can't argue the point. Bottom line, I don't let my pets wander, I do supervise them closely when they are out of the house, I should NOT have left the room to go get the toothbrush, BUT, I submit the cat would have grabbed the dog anyway because I wasn't right there with her. We've had at least one incident in Washington State where a little dog on a leash was grabbed by a Cougar and the owner ended up playing tug of war with cat to keep it from getting away with the dog.
Yep, I saw a mountain lion crossing the street in an industrial area of South Windsor, CT in broad daylight. What a sight!
THEY EXIST, they are a very solitary creature which prefers NO contact with men and like any cat, can be hard to see. As for seeing 'scat' or 'droppings' I doubt that even the DNR would recognize it. You must study it to see if it contains the typical hair form grooming that all cat droppings contain not to mention several other factors present. Also, cat droppings disolve quickly in rain and wash away. In one county in Wisconsin alone there are more than 20 breeding pair of cougar. I know of one female which comes into my deer camp nearly every night while I am hunting, I have never seen her with my eyes but have captured her on my trail cams nearly every night for the past 5 years. She seems curious and never bothers anything, just takes a dump as she leaves, usually about 50 - 100 feet from the camp. But remember folks the guv'ment says they are not here so they are not here. And we are not in a recession either. Oh, and we voted in a black president also, we were not handed a token black so we could be politically correct for the rest of the world! This article appears to be typical guv'ment propaganda.
You are no Southerngent and what does President Obama being president have to do with cougars in the east. Unfortunately you are proof that racism is still alive and well in the US. Pathetic!
NotSouthernGent,
You had a great post going(well stated & interesting)......until you just had to bring President Obama and race into it.
Real smart... you sure educated everyone with your insight.
I have to agree with Norskejente. Simply Pathetic!
you are correct. they're here. education and caution is in order.
The conclusion about the cougar being from South Dakota is an abuse of science. DNA testing can establish that it is related to cougars in South Dakota, that's all. Whether it walked clear across the continent by itself, or whether it was captured as a cub and treated as a pet, then re-released in the east, or whether it was a descendent of wild eastern cougars who had made the transition as cubs, the evidence cannot comment on these. This type of pervasive abuse of science is why so many people believe wrong things because "science says so." It usually doesn't. But someone has an agenda, and Mr. Gold is only too willing to comply.
The experts examine the teeth, among other parts of the cougar, and not rely entirely on DNA to determine if the cat was raised in the wild.
When you talk to the DNR in Michigan about cougars they just get real smart assey about it. They still claim they don't exist here. Its going to take someone getting chewed up before they will ever admit it.
I've seen them myself, and I've talked to other people that have seen them in Roscommon county.
Even then they will not admit it. In northern Illinois, cougar sightings have become somewhat routine. The average male cougar can travel 100 miles a day searching for food or a mate. Stillman Valley near Rockford has had confirmed sightings. There have been reports from Aurora and LaSalle County by seasoned trackers and in the Chicago suburbs there have been reports of sightings in West Chicago, Wheaton and Lake Forest.
But according to the Illinois Dept. Of Natural Resources, cougars are extinct in Illinois. They do, however, ask citizens to report unusual wildlife sightings. Go figure.
The backlash of this story ought to be unbelievable if anybody in NYC reads it. Apparently MSNBC has not been paying attention to the news. You can no longer call these cats 'Cougars', too many older women may be offended. Just ask those high school kids in Utah.
We call them "painters" (country word for panthers) in Tennessee. They're out there. You would be lucky to see one, unlucky to hear one. Sounds like a woman's scream, and will scare you out of your wits at night.
It amazed me how the government knows so much more about a region than the people who live there do. This article is contradictory anyway. It says cougars are easily seen because of roadkill or chasing people's pet. Then it says they are no danger to pets. I also know that people who live in the "country" know the difference between a bobcat and a mountain lion (cougar). It's like comparing a beagle to a St. Bernard. We're not stupid. And just FYI, there are cougars in Virginia and they were not somebody's pets. Sometimes the govt. officials need to just give it up and realize they don't know everything. "I don't know" is still an acceptable answer.
thanks, you saved me some time posting, nailed it
Yup ... we live in Culpeper Co, VA and my husband saw one in the back corner of our field. There certainly ARE panthers in the East and they ARE breeding. Then again, we all know of the two - MIXED GENDER and INTACT - who were sighted near Andrews AFB in MD not that long ago headed West. They were a black and tan and a BLACK PANTHER who were never captured and never came in as road kill so we may eventually see the black panthers re-established in the Blue Ridge and Appalachian mountains. Then we'll be told that it wasn't a panther it was a skinny, shorter-haired BEAR that was sighted.
He said there arent any trail cam pics in the East.......I Live outside of Pittsburgh....I HAVE TRAIL CAM PICS U IDIOT........I WILL SHOW EM IF U WANNA TALK THAT NONSENSE! huntingpa.com will show u more people with MORE pics....... He has no credibility from me....
On an old episode of Monster Hunter from last year, a particular myth was dispelled when their trail cam caught a picture of the supposedly extinct cat. This is not new news.
The government man is saying that these are Western Cougars genetically and the Eastern Cougar according to genetics are extinct thereby splitting coulgar hairs. Don't worry they will not get out of Florida to the rest of the continent because some yahoo from South Georgia will shoot it if it does. Being from Georgia I can tell you the yahoos are in full strength and will not miss.
When it comes to government, no hair is too fine to split. Perhaps we need a recovery and assistance tax for the poor cougar.
A cougar is a cougar is a cougar.
I lived in Greene county in the Catskill Mountains for years going to work early one morning in 1990 I had a Cougar come across the road in front of my car. I still remember it like it was yesterday I almost didn't believe it myself.This happened just outside of Windham.
Paul...I'm from the Catskills...Ulster Co. I travel quite a bit and used to go to Gilboa/Conesville a lot. I also saw one in that area, in broad daylight, back in the late 90's and I seen another by the Ashokan Reservoir, early in the morning, in 2001. I also know many 'woodsmen'.... guys that I know and trust who would absolutely know the difference between a mountain lion and a bobcat, tell me they have also seen them. For the biologists to say there aren't any mountain lions around here is just flat out wrong! They also become very indignant when anyone tries to bring up the subject about mountain lions! They have lost all credibility with me.