E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Courtesy the Humane Society of the United States
A photo from the Humane Society shows the aftermath of a South Carolina cockfighting bust in June 2010. South Carolina is among the states with lax laws against cockfighting, animal-welfare officials say.
In a state that's home to a university whose mascot is a gamecock, a group of South Carolinians arrested in a major cockfighting case want an appeals court to throw out their federal convictions. They argue that the federal government has no business regulating bird fights within state borders.
In a case closely watched by animal-rights activists, a three-judge U.S. appeals court in Richmond, Va., on Tuesday heard arguments on whether federal prosecutors overstepped their authority in trying six people in connection with Lexington County cockfights in 2008.
The four men and two women were found guilty at a federal court trial in May 2010 of violating animal welfare laws -- the same laws that were used to prosecute star NFL quarterback Michael Vick and send him to federal prison in 2007 for organizing dogfights at his Virginia home.
During the South Carolina trial, prosecutors showed video secretly shot by a state Department of Natural Resources agent who went undercover to infiltrate the cockfights at an arena in the rural Lexington County town of Swansea.
The federal government brought in witnesses from out of state -- and even flew in one witness from England -- to prove their case that the defendants were involved in interstate commerce -- which would give the federal government jurisdiction.
The six are appealing their convictions, and the outcome could also affect several others who pleaded guilty and didn’t go to trial.
Rauch Wise, an attorney for the defendants, says the federal government should not be in the business of regulating what essentially is a state matter.
In South Carolina, cockfighting is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail, though many violators often get off with a fine. Under the federal law, violators face up to five years in prison, Wise noted.
The defendants got sentences ranging from three years probation to 21 months in prison.
“Congress does not have right to prohibit burglary simply because someone steals a TV that was made out of state,” Wise told msnbc.com in a telephone interview Tuesday after arguing the case before the appellate panel. “Those are state matters reserved to the state and should be handled by state.
“They’ve taken laws in various states that citizens in those states have passed and in essence are saying, ‘you’re not being tough enough.’”
In an accompanying court filing, Wise argued the case did not involve interstate commerce. "Under the theory used by the Government in this case, Congress would have the power to make littering in a state a (federal) crime."
Nathan Williams, the assistant U.S. attorney who argued for the government, said the federal law prohibiting animal fighting was a proper exercise of congressional power under the Interstate Commerce Clause.
In court documents, the government outlines several reasons why the case involved “interstate commerce.” Prosecutors noted that several items, including leg bands, call slips for recordkeeping, vitamins, a syringe and a scale, were shipped from outside South Carolina to people present at the cockfights.
Citing a previous ruling in another animal-fighting case, Williams argued:
“Whether or not the knives, gaffs or other instrumentalities themselves substantially affect interstate commerce is not the relevant question. The fact that these instruments are used in an animal fighting venture that affects interstate commerce is sufficient to permit Congress to criminalize the selling, buying, transporting or delivering of them pursuant to its power under the Commerce Clause.”
Cockfighting is a centuries-old blood sport in which two or more specially bred roosters are placed in an enclosed pit to fight, often to the death. The University of South Carolina’s men’s sports teams have traditionally been called the Fighting Gamecocks.
The Humane Society of the United States is trying to make cockfighting a felony in all 50 states. John Goodwin, director of animal cruelty policy for the organization, who attended the appeals hearing, says it’s clear that the South Carolina case stretched beyond state borders.
“This is not just a matter of two chickens pecking each other in the back of some farmyard. These are large-scale events that affect interstate commerce in a pretty significant way,” he told msnbc.com
Goodwin said there have been about a dozen prosecutions under the federal Animal Welfare Act in the past seven or eight years, at least half of which involved cockfighting. He couldn’t recall any previous cases that reached a federal appeals court.
“Hopefully he judges will agree that the law that was used to prosecute Michal Vick is a good law that would stand,” Goodwin said.
Wise said he expects a ruling from the appellate panel within 90 days.
“The significance of this case is what limit there is on the power of Congress to essentially regulate what is a state matter, cockfighting,” he said.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
Leave a Comment:
What can one expect from the state which gave Newt the win in the Rep. primary?
I used to live in Lexington County, right across the river from Columbia, SC...very disconcerting when I first got there to see kids (college and little) walking around with the word COCKS splashed across on their t-shirts!
.....and saying to each other. Mine is bigger than yours. ;-)
People actually want to attach their names to this..........they actually want to say "cock fighting" is a worth while entertainment event.............Priceless.
What's the expense to the American people to go after penis fighters.... Oh, I mean cock dealers? Oh, wait cock promoters....
Cocks splashed across t-shirts
homesick Yank!
Yeah, you are sick alright.
Mine's too lazy to fight - I just want to choke it.
We just call them the pricks, just the way they act. The Self-Righteous State. I lived in several places, Charleston, Walterboro (Presbyterian chruch has been burned down by lightning strikes 3 times, hint, hint) Camden(the nicest of all).
The whole state has an attitude that they are better than the rest of us (the saying is North Carolina is a valley of humility between two mountains of conceit).
Cock fighting is the most vile thing in the world only topped by bull fighting (thank goodness for the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588 so we were English settled).
I think anyone convicted of dog, cock or anything like that should be thrown in prision general population and let get the piss beat out of them every day.
Yea, I lived in Charleston. Summerville was where most of the rednecks lived!
You lucky Americans. I am surrounded by Mexicans just outside of Chicago!
Ive raised free range chickens for decades . You would be very hard pressed to find a more brutal animal than the chicken . Cocks kill each other regularly . If I let two cocks roam the yard then its a sure bet they will kill each other within days . Compared to the natural fighting these birds do which can last days for a single bout , the organized fight is as humane as one can get . This is exactly why city folk need to worry about city problems . They know nothing of what they protest .
City folk better keep worrying about city problems. Because if this is found to be o.k., then it will be . . . dog-fighting, oh what's wrong with it . . . bull-fighting, oh what's wrong with it . . . horse-tripping (a mexican rodeo sport), oh what's wrong with it . . . gladiators . . . actually in some countries non-professional people are hired to fight each other, even to the death.
All of these are just signs of the trend toward third-worldization. If that is what everyone wants, I have no say in it. But someone better start telling the truth about what it is.
They should ban KFC too. It's chicken for god's sake, they'll die one way or another for some human needs. At least give them a fighting chance.
Killing for food is one thing. It is done quickly. Killing for sport is another. It is not quick. As far as U of SC teams being named gamecocks not much different than naming a team the Rebels and flying the battle flag. It's bound to offend someone.
Watching animals tear one another to pieces for "entertainment" is note quite the same thing.
When it's all over, throw the defendants attorneys in jail with them. Crime - abject stupidity and flagrant disgusting behavior!
Treatment like this to any animal is disgusting and has to be banned in all 50 States. Just because the literacy level in South Carolina is not so sharp, does not mean that they get a free pass to torture animals for fun.
Go educate those boys and make 'em walk upright.
Hmmm though I'm no fan of animal cruelty, this case does stink. It sounds like a pretty ridiculous stretch by the Feds to get involved.
I'd rather see gladiators anyway.
Interstate travel to participate in an illegal activity. Federal jurisdiction since 1961 if they choose to exercise it.
I agree with Cygnus. Just traveling to the fight doesn't constitute interstate activity, otherwise driving across the state line to burgle a house would be a federal matter. While I'm against cockfighting, I'd also prefer to leave this to the states, as I would marijuana use.
The fed is out of control. Spending all kinds of tax dollars on trivial @!$%# like this. Soon they will be interfering with the state's ability institute it's own immigration policies...:/
Just like with the people killed in the Civil Rights Movement it took the Feds using the violation of the dead civil rights to put those jerks in jail.
Exactly! They are sneaky and will find any way possible to get involved in cases out of their jurisdiction.
AG99 - If you transport said stolen goods back across state lines it is a Federal matter.
But they're not transporting the cocks across state lines, are they?
The federal government should have jurisdiction of any and ALL criminal activity, because in today's economy there is virtually no activity that does not, at least at some level, involve interstate activity. Besides, the idiotic activity that Congress can only regulate SOME criminal behavior - if it occurs between states - is dumb in the 21st century. In the 18th century it may have made sense, but not today. There needs to be one standard and one set of laws that applies nation wide.
I'm kind of torn, I can't understand why anyone would think this is entertaining. On the the same hand I think making this a federal crime is a clear cut example of "mission creep".
Too many feds with way too much time on their hands.
Protect me or find a new line of work.
Whether it's Mike Vick fighting dogs, or these thugs fighting chickens, it's animal abuse and should be treated as such. By the feds or the state I don't care. But it should not be allowed.
If the sole purpose of a person's travel is to take part in or provide money to an illegal activity, it is interstate travel for Federal jurisdiction.
If it is not the sole purpose of travel, then it does not qualify as interstate activity.
What's stopping these federal police state scum from indicting hunters.
Crosby....
"What's stopping these federal police state scum from indicting hunters"
Actually, the Law is the only thing preventing hunters from being victims of Federally subsidized hate acts such as the one described in this article. And that can be changed... I'd worry if I were you... Next thing you know they'll be trying to keep terrorists from our shores or worse.
Dogs are pets and are something "I" believe should be protected. I EAT chickens. The same people wanting to stop this activity are also advocating removing chickens from cages and making them all free range, thus blowing up the Chicken production industry... Listen to the cows! EET MOR CHIKEN! :)
Awwwww, poor sadistic rednecks, is the federal government spoiling your fun? I feel so sorry for you.....NOT! I do feel sorry for the poor birds YOU have made to suffer. To force animals to fight and suffer is one of the LOWEST and most COWARDLY acts a person can commit. IF any of you believe in an afterlife, then you should KNOW you WILL have to pay for your DEPRAVED behavior. ONLY pedophiles are lower than you!!!
Uh umgawa, Immigration is governed by the fed in the first place. All states are required to confrom to federal immigration statutes. It is not a state matter to begin with. And if a state institutes an immigration policy that directly conflicts with federal immigration policy, then fed wins hands down.
Don't a lot of other animals die from 2 same sexed animals fighting for being the "Dominant" specimen? I've seen lions, tigers, bears and every other animal on "Animal Planet" do the same thing, what is the difference? Because one has mountains behind it, or because one has people betting on it?
That's just not true! If your knee jerk statement were true, murders, rapists, and other depraved people would fare better in court than a cock fighter.
I think your statement was not thought out. People really need to come back to reality. People shouldn't make comments that reflects a total lack of thought.
Just FYI. Roosters whether gamecocks or roosters straight off the range fight naturally. Unlike a Dog, roosters cannot be not trained to fight. But they can be conditioned and preparation to fight. If you put two roosters together in a pit... they will fight... If you put two roosters in cages beside each other, they will kill themselves trying to get to each other so they can fight. Is it right or wrong to have cockfights, I am still undecided. However, I do agree that this is a problem for the states to decide.
First off they are chickens, why do people who fight freaking chickens got to be controlled by people who have no buisness saying what they can do or not do ,A bunch of pansy, sissy,bleeding hearts who have nothing but time to jack with other people who have been cockfighting for generations they are not dogs ,unless you are Asian in a third world country where people eat dogs, we rationalize they are pets Mans best friend I can see that and agree with anti dog fighting But chickens??? come on!!leave those folks Alone !!!!I wish we could fight those animal activist ,give them swords like in old Rome the planet would be better off without the extremist such as anti chicken fighters ! Protect animals that need protecting but dont give the goverment another reason to controll our populace and another Right in the ole Rights shredder!!! Makes me madder than hell that some punk or punkette tries and does try to rule over people that is all in this rant!!
First off they are chickens, why do people who fight freaking chickens got to be controlled by people who have no buisness saying what they can do or not do ,A bunch of pansy, sissy,bleeding hearts who have nothing but time to jack with other people who have been cockfighting for generations they are not dogs ,unless you are Asian in a third world country where people eat dogs, we rationalize they are pets Mans best friend I can see that and agree with anti dog fighting But chickens??? come on!!leave those folks Alone !!!!I wish we could fight those animal activist ,give them swords like in old Rome the planet would be better off without the extremist such as anti chicken fighters ! Protect animals that need protecting but dont give the goverment another reason to controll our populace and another Right in the ole Rights shredder!!! Makes me madder than hell that some punk or punkette tries and does try to rule over people that is all in this rant!!
Stupid asses...It is cruel entertainment. Came up with my small minded men.
Yea, stupid ass people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, Many Judges, and Doctors that actually have Gamefowl that carries their name......
Stephanie....Please share with us your credentials, that makes you smarter than these people!
nitwit. Have you ever been to a cockfight? No. It is a bloody gross mess. It is not like having a couple of guys punching at one another. It is a fight until one of the cocks is dead. This jackass lawyer sees nothing wrong with this?
did you even read the article? the case isn't about whether its morally right or wrong, its whether the federal government has the power to come into a state and arrest people when no state law was broken.
the case is about the law and how the federal government has no jurisdiction for federal charges for cockfighting. they are trying to prove it under the commerce clause, which i doubt will work..
the federal government likes to use the commerce clause as legitimate cause because its so broadly defined. for example the mandate under obamacare...
It is the Commerce Clause and its application by the U.S. Supreme Court that allowed the federal government to put an end to segregation and discrimination in restaurants, hotels, and other accommodations in the South. For anyone to argue that the feds have no right to enforce federal law when no State law was broken is an old argument, long ago dismissed by the U.S. Supreme Court. For South Carolina to make that argument is particularly offensive, as the landmark desegregation case known as Brown v. Board of Education included four others, including the Briggs v. Elliot case from South Carolina. But for federal intervention, South Carolina might still have segregation.
Thank you for your post. I was one of the kids in school that had to deal with intergration. We tried to get along. It was our parents and people who didn't have kids in school that caused the problems. It was hard enough growing up in a small town in the South, but dealing with intergration, Viet Nam, no kid should have to do those things.
We still have not had a full reunion of the Class of '72, we were just happy to get out of there.
Same as the medical marijuana law in California. It is legal there, however the feds come in and cause havoc because they are violating a federal law.
This is BS. The Fed needs to get out of state business and do what it is supposed to do.
Bad argument umgawa. Federal supercedes state law. CA could allow murder and racketeering. But federal law considers them no-no's too.
Here we go. States rights -v- Federal authority.
As Mr. umgawa says, state law in California does conflict with federal law. The feds used the commerce clause in its vendetta against cannabis. Now they are doing the same thing, using the same tactic. They are wasting a lot of money doing that too, just like the money wasted on the failed attempt to stop people from using cannabis.
I think that federal laws should not trump every state law. There should be some areas of law that it can, and others that it can't. The only areas of law that federal law should be able to be supreme is in matters of national security and constitutional rights. Otherwise the feds need to respect the decisions of the various states voters.
The feds need to stop concerning its self with trivial matters that can be handled by the states. The federal government needs to go on a diet. It has become a big fat intruder that eats away at our rights.
JamesP,
Even though I in no way support cruelty to animals, I am not a nut job like some of the people on this site that are more concerned about cruelty to a animal then to a child. The bottom line they are animals, nothing more then that.
What I have a problem with, and do agree with you is that the federal government needs to really be scaled back to what it was in the late sixties and pull itself out of states jurisdictions and the rights of the people in the state unless a crime passes state lines, it is a civil rights crime and the state refuses to act on federal laws then the feds should step in. In the case of cannabis, I have a degenerative condition that forces me to take narcotics in large volumes, if I lived in another state I would be able to cut the amount down by two thirds and be prescribed cannabis, but both my state and the Feds do not allow it even though there are volumes of medical reports backing the good it does.
The bottom line is we as a people need to take back our rights, make the federal government become what it was intended to be and but out of businesses, property ownership, now we have a first lady trying to tell us how to eat. We need to send a strong message that we are taking back what is rightfully ours and vote out the people that want to make the federal government all compassing in all of our lives and infringing on all of our rights granted by the constitution.
I agree with everything you say except I do have a problem with this one comment.
It is not that I don't agree that they are just animals. I only disagree with the spirit in which it was said.
Sure they are nothing more than animals. We are nothing more than animals too. Just because we don't live like the other animals doesn't mean we are not animals too. Just because we have technology and abstract thought doesn't mean we are not animals. It only means we are different. Being different from them makes us have something in common with them. All the different species of our world are different from each other and have different life styles. Saying that they are nothing more than an animal is a way to say that we are better than them, and we are not.
We don't have any more right to survive than they do. We survive not because of a right to do so. We survive because our ancestors fought tooth and nail to survive. We survive because we do what is necessarily to survive. All the creatures that inhabit our world have done the same. If any has the right to survive it is because man kind, with his over bloated sense of self importance, has said they do. We all know that just because we say it is so, don't make it so. A right to survive is a purely human concept. A concept that would not fare well in the other animal communities.
I give animals respect. I eat them too. My sister got mad at me because I killed 3 of my guinea fowl to serve for Thanksgiving dinner. She said I shouldn't have killed my pets. She had seen the way I treat my animals and thought they were pets because I treat them so well. She didn't understand that for me they are part of a gigantic family of life on Earth. That I will not mistreat them and make their life miserable. I had to explain that in the end I am an animal too, and that the other animals are my food.
Maybe people should take a closer look at animals. Look at their behavior and their structure. Look right down into their DNA. We have more in common than most would allow themselves to believe.
They are indeed animals, but so are we.
For once, someone that has come back with a well though out and very logical conclusion. I can not argue, I too find watching animals instinct and sometimes their ability to adapt is both amazing and and lets me know that we do have something alike. But like it or not for the people that do not understand your idea of killing your birds for thanksgiving we are predators. Hopefully we as humanity will one day let our lesser instincts overrun our ability to think and act within the ability that we were blessed with. But in the end we hopefully will find a way to raise and enjoy our meat but treat our livestock in a way that they deserve and not abusively. But for you from Peta, you are crazy, they are not people, and we for thousands of years have survived because we hunted and ate animals. And like it or not our bodies our not built to be vegetarians, otherwise look at ones mouth and you would not see canines. So you keep your pets, I will eat mine.
B.S - did you "you" read the article?
There is a State law, it was broken - The point of the raid was the State was not enforcing its own laws ... more pointedly - the state was selectively, enforcing the law. Being routinely negligent about enforcement in many, many cases handing out minimal fines, when forced by egregious actions or public outcry... but routinely turning a blind eye to the crime as well as the culture which breeds these kinds of bloodsports.
If Micheal Vick had been a scion of a legacy, Plantation family - he would have never been proscecuted or even been under investigation in the 1st place.
I;m not claiming its a racist activity ... more likely its based on Class and culture. Of course ... its not too likely that all families have been participating in the "sport" for generations... its more about heritage don't cha' think?
TV trivia ... Who was "Chicken George" and why was he an important, seminal character in the evolution of the screenplay?
Who cares? They are just chickens and this is what they live for! Have you ever been around a fighting chicken? They think they are the biggest, baddest, animal on the planet and think nothing more than wanting to fight. It is was their genetics instill in them. So let them do it.
That is almost true...
the point is, these fighting cocks didn't become that way on their own. These animals have be bred (interfering with natural selection) to enhance their instinct to fight regardless of any real advantage to their species. yes its in their genetics, but it would NOT, be to the point it is today ... cause the trait has limited value in the big picture. Sooner or later all these agressive cocks would kill each other off and balance would come to the flocks.
These chickens (Game cocks) would kill each other off in one afternoon if the breeder was to let them all out of the cages in a closed area. His whole stock would be either dead or maimed. Probaly the only ones who would survive - would be the timid ones who were smart enough to back off and wait for the other to do all the fighting.
That must be the point of states having to enact emigration laws. The feds aren't enforcing their own laws either.
Apparently you haven't seen the results of actual "unlimited" fighting. Talk about blood and gore. At least they aren't using all the goodies the ancient Roman fighters used, with weighted straps on their hands and arms and rivets pointing out to gouge and cut the opponent with.
Ummm, a chicken doesn't have that much blood so not so much "blood and gore." And they're not ripped to shreds like the dog fights which I can't agree with. The butchering process of a chicken is way worse than a cock fight!
You are mistaken. the current administration has deported more illegal immigrants than the previous one, by a large margin. The previous Republican administration was not too concerned about illegal immigrants, since they had little incentive to prevent their Conservative constituents from hiring cheaper labor, Non-Unionized labor, persons who are willing to accept lower wages, work under less than safe conditions.
You'll notice that several of the same states who screamed the loudest about illegal immigrants are now being asked to "ease-up" by farmers, construction businesses because - despite the claim of securing the boarders, what they really meant was too be able to threaten illegals with deportation - if they weren't compliant, not actually do anything to keep them from working in the fields, or labor jobs.
I think it was alabama who had a large number of agriculture members angry at the govenor because the Mexicans packed up and left, rather than be subject to greater danger of being picked up by local or state police acting under the new enhanced law.
I am all for enforcement. As is the Federal government, however - you can't say one thing, then do another (or have the local cops collecting "hush money") to ignore the same laws they are supposed to enforce.
There is a lot of duplicity in the GOPper claim of wanting strict enforcement.
But you knew that already,didn't you?... you just wanted to make a jingoistic claim which you knew to be false, but hoped no one would call you on it.
or maybe you really don't know - that happens if all you listen to is Rush Limbaugh propaganda or Faux news... both are news entertainment - even worse, they aren't even entertaining and they done provide news - they make it up, a fresh batch every morning.
I'm happy to be mistaken then, Beowolf.
Really, I was making satire to show how broken the system is. All the infighting and political brinkmanship needs to stop.
It seems like our country as more divided now than at any other time sense the civil war.
This is animal crueltry pure and simple. It is wrong to pit two animals against each other to fight to the death. If these people want to watch wanton cruelty then they should fight each other to the death. The fans are cowards, too scared to fight themselves, they pit animals against each other so that they can feel like "real men." They are not. Also, this is a very very Christian state and believe fundamentally that people are the "stewards" of the earth and the animal kingdom. If that were true, they should be fired and jailed for being criminally bad at being stewards. No person should be allowed to participate in any bloodsport involving animals who have no choice in the matter. Shame on everyone involved in this kind of activity.
The S. Carolina cult crowd are not 'christians.' They're a bunch of inbred, braindamaged chimpanzee rejects who jump around and say 'amen' when presented with certain stimuli that have nothing to do with their ordinary lives and decisions.
WStevens - okay, now don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. Seriously I detest this "sport" and don't know why anyone would defend it!
Amen Brother, hallelujia!
Thats how we should decide the GOP nominee. Put em all in a cage and whoever is left standing gets advanced to the Championship prize fight with Erkel in November.
I'll take Erkel any time. If there were any personal dirt on him the Teabaggers would have already played the card.
The mess that this country is in is because numb nuts Bush. Since 2010 900 terrorist have been taken out by drones. Terrorist that would build bombs to kill and maim our soldiers. You can't tell me Bush's crowd didn't know where Bin Laden was.
I try to spend as little money as possible in the Self-Righteous State. The rag head Gov. will do the same thing that the other numb nut Bush did to FL in his 8 yrs take away every way to make the rich pay their share.
I'm proud to be a native of the "Old North State". and plan to spend as little time as possible in the cesspool south of us.
Wow racist much? Oh never mind you called Bush numb-nuts so you're excused.
During elementary and the first 2 years of high school I boxed. The school then banned the "so called sport". Before the school banned it I had already quit. Luckily, I never got hurt, but I just as unluckily damn near killed 2 kids, at least I thought. Knocked 'em both out cold. Scared me to tears. Thankfully both had what is referred to as "glass jaws". I hate any kind of violence in any "so called sport". Living in the south though, I have witnessed both "cock fighting" and "dog fighting" once each. I consider anyone who enjoys such horrors to be insane on some level at best, with many being total psychopaths. I can rationalize ones behavior in combat in the middle of a war, but for me, there is no excuse, other than craziness, for this kind of cruelty. Whatever it takes to stop it works for me.
Anyone else see anything wrong with this post? They state....Hates boxing but nearly killed two kids boxing. Hates Cock fights but has seen them. Hates dog fights but has seen them....If you hate thse things then may I ask why are you involved in them??? Huh Mr. Two faced!
Marlo-1091145: My writing that bad? The whole point I was trying to make was, sometimes one must see, or be involved in a thing to understand it. Boxing was and continues to be popular, even today. I deplore it though, because I have first hand knowledge of its violence. I witnessed a cock and dog fight for a few minutes and quickly understood the horrorible violence of those too. Enough to know, civilized people should not, and I believe could not, enjoy such horror. Not really a valid excuse, but I was a kid when I saw these things, and they indeed made a lasting impression.
Looks like the article was written by the scam agency of HSUS then sent to MSN with a check to publish it. They probably also hired the FEDS to bust these terrible gun toting criminals err I mean crazy cock packing rednecks.
Call it whatever you want.. but I see what he did a common sense. When you are young, your parents tell you to try spinech, its good for you. Califlower, liver, greens, hog parts - try them, you might like them. Most kids, develop likes and dislike and would never change or venture to anything except what they already like without at least giving it a try.
The first time you pick up a guitar, clarinet, play the piano - you might say... its too hard, I quit.
Giving a sport, even boxing, wrestling, target shooting is not a life long obsession. Its a good way to find out what you are good at, if its something worth doing and most important - it give you a chance to find out if it "suits" your personally, your personally guiding principle which will set you on your course to becoming a person (yourself) you can live with.
I took up martial arts at an early age, became better than average - was willing to prove it at the drop of a hat (no better than those fighting Cocks). I met a woman who helped me get over myself, when I think back to the those earlier days ... I am appalled at some of the things I did. But it was a growth experience. Its good to find out what you like and dislike - so you don't go through life wondering if you "missed" something important. All those guys who become what their parent tell them to do - then retire and find that they should have been something else ... wasted a good part of their lives.
Give it to Mikey... he won't eat, Mikey hates everything. ... don't be that guy... find out what you are early enough to do something about it.
I have conjectured that it is interesting that the Christian churches have been able to ignore what really is happening to animals in the world today. In factory farms, in research labs, in shelters. Is this not an issue worthy of discussion among the community?
fgh-1038628, I wouldn't make judgements based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence if I were you.
In reference to #6, I have conjectured that somehow, the churches remain in a happy state of denial about the issues of animals in the modern world. Whether factory farms, research labs, shelters, anywhere, it just does not rank as something worthy of discussion to the Communitys.
By the way, many conclusions by anyone are based on incomplete evidence. Much of the thought process naturally is just by leaps of faith and suspensions of belief.
See if a conjecture will hold up in the court of public opinion. I think people want a little more than a guess.
This is depraved animal cruelty at its worst. I cannot believe the immoral cowardice of people who would use a helpless and defenseless animal to this end. It should be well more than a misdemeanor--I think felony for sure, with plenty of jail and prison time. How else to get the message across to these people? They are idiots.
So let me get this right. People are immoral cowards that would hurt or kill a defenseless animal and they should be charged with a felony. Then what about the people that are killing children that are eight and nine months and screaming and trying to get away from the doctors killing it and you call the people who do this exercising their rights. Not saying animal cruelty is right, but there are much worse matters out their to yell about.
Consider this - Research program after reserach program has solidly confirmed that the vast majority of child molesters and serial killers (like on the order of 90%) started off with torturing/killing animals. Stopping these people early on may have a big benefit downstream. Check out Ted Bundy - he began his criminal activities as a young man who tortured and dismembered animals. Then he graduated to people. Still think we should go easy on disturbed people who get a thrill out of cruelty?
If you thought the fights were bad, you should have been there when HSUS placed them in Barrells and Gassed all the roosters to death!
They were screaming and crying out to their owners to save them from HSUS, but no body could help them.
Those were the Ted Bundys, Not the cockfighters!
Why would they people want to see something like this?
So they can gamble on the outcome.
From what North Carolinans say, this is Southern White Trash. Who else would elect Newt Gingrich?
Yes, I wish they would say SOUTH Carolina when they talk about the "Carolinas". We're not perfect up here but DAWG ! We wouldn't invite Newtie and his shellacked no-doubt-better-half to a barbecue much less choose him to be our candidate for President.
As for animal fighting. How would you feel if your pet dog was lost or dognapped and ended up fighting for its life while people laughed, yelled, drank and bet on the outcome of the fight? When your dog gives up its likely he'll be strung up, shot and buried in a shallow grave because he's a "loser". Chicken, same thing. If the Feds have to step in to drag a state into the 21st Century, so be it.
The point of the article is not whether or not cockfighting is animal cruelty but, that The feds are overstepping their authority.
I have noticed that a lot of posters, here, seem to have missed that point. Or, believe that if they dislike something then the feds should have the power to outlaw it and they care nothing about the constitutionality.
That rationale can be extrapolated to include the feds coming into your yard and destroying your lawn because your neighbor doesn't like the type of grass you have.
Not being capable of using reason to decide what crime is and what punishment should fit, is the biggest reason why we may be on the advent of having the feds make such decisions as what our personal property should look like.
Could you elaborate on that, fgh? I don't see the connection between our personal properties looks and crime and punishment.
I don't see why this is national news, it's a fail defense. The Fed's have proof activity was crossing state borders then well... that's the definition of a federal case. If there were articles on every failed defense... well you know where I'm going with this.
More low life trash trying to make buck with senseless destruction of animals. Now their trying to weasel out of their punishment.
Put the defendants in a ring with the same outcome...Improve the gene pool!
Absolutely barbaric!! A sad statement of the mentality of these people and thier state for condoning it.
Why is my tax dollars being spent this way?
Because I want them to.
Because your down south brethren are breaking laws forcing the hand of the Fed's to step in. You wont like it but thats the fact of the matter.
Well dave in @!$%#ty so cal you obviously have no idea how many cockfights take place in your neck of the woods.
Hint: look for a large concentration of undocumented immigtrants and you will find it.
Because education in your state obviously isn't working very well and is wasting money!! Did you mean, ARE??
They're my tax $$$$s too. And I want my tax dollars used to send imbeciles who engage in stupid, unproductive, cruel activities like this THROWN IN JAIL. And I don't care if it's a Federal penitentiary or a State prison. I just plain don't care. I want these nitwit, low-life, crackers off the damn street until they learn how to behave like members of the human race. So, the US Justice Dept can certainly use my tax dollars to clean up this mess.
Could you explain what you mean by the term crackers? In my book that term is a derogatory, racist term that should go to the trash bin of history.
JamesP: That would depend on whether frs is referring to saltines or Ritz. Now if frs was talking about oyster crackers, then that is a completely different case.
Bingo, FightingTheRight. What's a little barbaric animal abuse when you can profit from it? Disgusting.
5 years in prison for fighting birds. Isn't that more than that doctor got for killing Michael Jackson? Priorities, people. Animal fighting is bad, but making it a felony when people who murder other people get less time seems a little over the top.
People who enjoy watching animals kill each other will probably enjoy humans kill each other too. Most serial killers get their "practice" while torturing animals as young children.
Michael Jackson killed himself via repeated long term drug abuse, i.e. he was an addict who over-dosed. The idiot doctor aided by prescribing and supplying but did not create the drug problem. Any 'person' who deliberately pits animals against each other deserves nothing but prison time. It is not a sport, just low i.q. brutality.
Quinn687,
Just when I start getting up hope for some intelligence along comes a crackpot like you. People that watch animals fight turn into serial killers. Can anyone say over-reaching. I am sure they picked their noses too when they were children so you better watch yours.
Being cruel to animals is wrong, using baseless data to support it is just stupid.
Become an activist and help vote judges who hand out light sentences for murder out of office.
Tbenton, actually there is proof that serial killers began their careers as children by torturing and killing animals. Yes, they likely picked their noses too, but they enjoyed killing a lot more. Both Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer tortured, killed and maimed helpless animals as children. Look it up.
TBenton, I apparently struck a nerve with you. Are you one of those who enjoy watching animals mutilate each other?
Quinn,
I hate animal violence, but growing up on a farm, they are just animals. Yes I had cows that were my friends but when it became non profitable for them because they produced no milk anymore my father shipped them off to the meat packing houses that I am sure you ate from. I like dogs, love cats, but they are animals. My heart goes out far more for the little ones of our own that are suffering then for the animals. I find it interesting that someone can go straight from a Peta meeting to abortion clinic. Talk about screwed up ethics.
The ultimate whitetrash sport. The people who are involved in animal fighting are also likely to be involved in other gangster activities, and are more vicious in general. If it takes federal action to stop it, so be it, I'm not some kind of Pon Raul droogie on the subject.
Actually this ignorant low class barbaric activity is popular around the world. I was on one of the southern islands in the Philippines and saw a lot of men walking toward a small arena where this was taking place.
In Los Angeles County there are raids now and then where men gather up to a hundred or more for to witness and bet on this cruel and stupid event. Seems every area has a number of these sick people.
It is not uncommon and the participants are usually given a citation (misd. ticket) have to pay a fine and the birds are taken in by Animal Control and ultimately killed.
What is wrong with men (and women like Palen) who think killing is a sport, be it bulls, chickens or wolves. They are sick s.o b.'s...........
It's an all day event on Sunday in the Philippines. No need to bring an alarm clock when you visit, the roosters near your hotel will wake you up every morning. I went one Sunday during my visit with 2 companions to gamble. I was the only white guy there. Since I had the money I was picking the roosters and they would make the bets with the cristos, so named because they hold out both arms like Jesus on the cross. They keep all the bets in their head. I had an unbelievably lucky run and was seemingly picking every winner. When one cristos refused to pay, one of my companions and him almost came to blows. It was at this point that I decided it was time to leave. I ate fried chicken there a couple of times and it always made me wonder what they did with the losers. I must admit I did enjoy myself that afternoon but I attribute that to the fact that I did win some money and it was very interesting to see what their culture was like. I have never attended a cockfight here in the States nor would I want to as it is illegal.
Did ya hear about the Redneck whose friend invited him to a cock fight. He stayed up half the night greasing his zipper.
lol....George
I'm glad to see someone else around here has a since of humor. ; )
Throw these barbaric bastards in prison and throw away the dam key.Cock fighting is for IGNORANT, STUPID, BARBARIC, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO,THAN TO SEE ANIMALS RIP THEMSELVES APART.IT'S TIME TO STOP THIS STUPIDITY!IT'S A PASS TIME FOR MORONS AND IDIOTS.
I hate it!It's DISGUSTING!
I'm glad the feds got in on it.I don't care for the Feds, but this one time I'll give them the Trophy for interfering with STUPIDITY!
Don't throw this case out ,because these Stupid Morons say so.Throw this GARBAGE AND TRASH, in jail,and get them off the streets!
Relax. It's just some stupid birds... they're not even mammals.
Neither are you, TheBMOC.
You are correct. I am a lizard person.
This does not change the fact that fighting chickens is more stupid than cruel. Stupid people spending time with stupid animals.
Even lizards and reptiles face abuse now. The deceased Australian Steve Erwin spent some of his life addressing this issue.
I am glad Michael Vick was convicted of his participation in cruelty to dogs. Now these inbreds from SC should accept their fate for cruelty to another animal species. It is unbelievable that anyone in this country would believe it is OK to mistreat animals for their own warped sense of entertainment. They want blood, perhaps they will find it in prison where they belong. At least that will be their kind dishing out the blood.
I don't believe that Vick was ever convicted on animal cruelty charges. It was the gambling charges that got him sentenced to prison.
quinn he was convicted on animal cruelty charges... one question for you cock fighters , do you wear condoms???
South Carolina is a VERY strange place..... VERY STRANGE!
Another proof that states should have the absolute right to pick the Official State Vegetable and very little else.
Why because they're trying to separate the idiots, morons, and bastards from the sane people!THAT'S WHY THEIR SPENDING OUR NOT JUST YOURS, TAX DOLLARS.
It's A okay with me,as long as the Garbage and Trash gets picked up!
This was to Down South!
Honestly, I knew the state involved had to be South Carolina even before I read the first paragraph of the story. Cockfighting occurs in other states of course, but the chutzpah it took to bring in a bogus states rights angle to this story made SC the only option.
States Rights, period. The feds are intruding into a fundamental right of the state. Though barbaric and cruel for the cocks, it seems rather obvious that the real chickens here are the feds. The attorney for the defense is REQUIRED to give and present the Best defense that he is able to. So, no demeaning the lawyers is needed. However, as disgusting as this is, it is the state that should have jurisdiction, not the federal government. As far as interstate commerce is concerned, transporting anything that requires a federal tax stamp, cigarettes or booze across a state line is in violation of those federal statutes. So, let the state deal with them, give them the max penalty, increase the penalty through legislation, and MSNBC, haven't you anything better to report on.
No it is not "States Rights" it is about the right of every living creature on the planet. No animal should be treated like this and if South Carolina will not stop it the feds should. How we treat the most defenseless creatures says everything about us as a species and as a civilization. This kind of activity says we fail miserably at both. They call it Cock fighting because it is for men who do not have one.
You Aminal rights Idiots might have an arguement, except for 1 thing.....These roosters they confiscated were not carried to an Animal facility to be cared for, (HSUS does not own 1), they were placed in barrells and gassed to death by the hundreds......You justify that!
I'm opposed to blood "sports" such as cockfighting and bullfighting. But I'm also opposed to the "logic" used by federal prosecutors to intervene in laws and policies that are and of right ought to be those of the indidual states. There was enough dialog at the inception of the so-called United States (more a misnomer today than in 1776) to create a balance of powers between states and the federal government. It seems as though the latter has been cancerously usurping the rights of the former.
Would like all animal cruelty to be a felony. If the states don't have the where with all to do it, let the Feds do it. Anyone who supports the Vicks and cockfighters of the world should be punished. Big time. They are usually men with little mosquito d**ks anyway. What kind of man takes pleasure in watching an animals suffer? Sickos and most likely predators. Gawd protect us from them.