Agreed, they could halve our defense budget and still spend more than the next largest military budget (China) THREE TIMES OVER.

Agreed, they could halve our defense budget and still spend more than the next largest military budget (China) THREE TIMES OVER.

You need to understand that we don't know China's ACTUAL military budget, however all agree that it is SIGNIFICANTLY higher then what they claim. Also because we are a free market capitalist society the cost of good, in this case military equipment, is more expensive for us then them, so they can get more bang for their buck in regards to defense spending. Of course none of this even addresses China's currency manipulation...

@Armyguy, I was using the pentagon's estimation of what China is spending, and is adjusted to US dollars, not their claimed number (which is much lower).

And while they are able to get more bang for their buck, I doubt it is 3X better (particularly given the head start we already have).

Averages to $48.7 billion per year...that is hardly cutting anything! I guess better than nothing.

Agreed, they could halve our defense budget and still spend more than the next largest military budget (China) THREE TIMES OVER.

That is a simplistic argument. Countries like China, Iran, etc. are regional powers who only have to influence their local area. The U.S. is a global power which needs to be able to project power everywhere and so requires a much larger force. You can't just pick up a carrier in the Atlantic and teleport it to the Pacific in one day and shift it back just as quickly if it is needed back in the Atlantic. You need forces capable of meeting the threat assigned to all the areas you need to operate in.

Additionally, personnel costs are a relatively bigger slice of our budget than, say, China.

Whining about this is all political theater.

Yes, it will hurt some local economies, but the military is the biggest part of our budget that we can cut and you can't object to this modest amount out of a still enormous line item if you're serious about starting to pay down the debt.

Most of the items beyond this, Social Security, and Medicare that people feel so strongly about cutting are very small potatoes in comparison. Yes, we can look at all places to trim waste and economize, but you could end up spending half of what you save in the process and take several years to do it. We need to start tackling the debt now, so this is the most obvious first place to cut. The big entitlement programs will be the next ones under the scalpel.

That is a simplistic argument. Countries like China, Iran, etc. are regional powers who only have to influence their local area. The U.S. is a global power which needs to be able to project power everywhere and so requires a much larger force.

And why, Brad, do we need to be so much more influential over the entire world? No other country is... and yet we need to be everywhere. I guess the DoD isn't so much about defense as mucking with everyone else in the world. No wonder so may countries hate us.

Cut military= less world influence. Less world influence = world unrest. World unrest = WW3. Simplistic however its basically what it boils down to.....

A large and modern military is a necessarily evil.... Pick up a book and read what happened to France in both world wars, the had a similar view then many of you on minimal spending on defense. History proves it over and over.... Get over yourselves...

".....but the military is the biggest part of our budget that we can cut....."

Yeah, right !!! How about going after Health Care and Pensions ? See following chart (similar charts can be found by a simple Internet search):

• http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/budget_pie_gs.php

I would think our "elite" Congressional representatives could find BILLIONS, if not TRILLIONS, of dollars in Fraud, Waste and Abuse within EVERY government agency. Wait a minute, Mr. Obama "promised" he would do a top down analysis in each government agency for Fraud, Waste, and Abuse and consolidate or terminate duplicate agencies. STILL waiting.

Wait another minute...... What about the 12,000 troop deployment into Libya ? Or, what about the proposed base and troop build ups in Australia and the Philippines ?

Yep, downgrade our military and see what happens on the seas.

Still waiting for the shoe to drop on ANOTHER round of "back room deals" to INCREASE the National Debt limit.

BTW, our military goes and completes missions as DIRECTED by The Man in the White House. Our military does not act WITHOUT orders from the TOP.

Not nearly enough cuts, especially in regard to overseas bases.

Cut military= less world influence. Less world influence = world unrest. World unrest = WW3. Simplistic however its basically what it boils down to.....

Influence is not entirely tied to military size, nor is influence equalled to world unrest. We were never closer to nuclear holocaust then during the Cuban missle crisis when two countries had huge worldwide influence.

Pick up a book and read what happened to France in both world wars, the had a similar view then many of you on minimal spending on defensethe had a similar view then many of you on minimal spending on defense

France before WWII was spending over 7% of GDP on military, which is significantly more than we are today. France is a horrible example to bolster your position.

History proves it over and over.... Get over yourselves...

Government structures, communications, economic globalism, technology and cultural relations are very different from 50 years ago. What may have applied in the middle ages (>50% of GDP was military) differed from the victorian ages. Learn from history, but do not become captive to it.

Steven1,

This (the cut) includes only the previously agreed "Pentagon cut of $487 billion from the defense budget over the next 10 years " when the previous Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates did his review 18 months ago and agreed to by President Obama.

What it does not include is the supposedly $500+ Billion automatic cut that is pending because last year (end of 2011) Congress failed to pass the $1.3 trillion cuts over 10 years starting 2013. That $500 Billion ax is still due. Let us see what will happen with that. Will the Congress as usual smooze that over or do some more real cuts in the Defense spending. Remains to be seen.

All things considered, not having a strong military will be much more costly.

This isn't where we should be making cuts. This is commiting suicide for America. This is the one thing our Federal government is supposed to be doing for America, to protect it's citizens, and the other thing they should be doing is getting their noses out of almost every other aspect of our lives. America is being set up to fall. So many countries hate us. I can think of many other things that our government can cut back on but the military is not one of them.

Armyguy lotsanumbers:

If you are still on active duty, please share with the readers the quality of today's army. When the cuts come, the best soldiers are not going to be axed. It is going to be the marginal troops and there are many of them. When those G.I.'s hit the labor market, it is going to be quite a shock for the economy as many of them are truly unemployable because they are very poorly educated, and/or lazy, and/or undisciplined.

While many of our troops give us good reason to take pride in our military, that is not the case with ALL G.I.'s. It won't be long and that nasty little secret will be made public in a very big way.

GimDan, how do you explain that after we got involed in Iraq, Afaganistan, Pakistan, Libya, they are in more of a mess than ever. How do you explain that terrorism is up with all the US mucking in things. Also how do you deal with our multi-trillion dollar yearly deficit. You must think that the US can continue with spending more than it takes in (right now 40% of expenditures is unfunded, and if we want such a powerful military...). You talk about risk from other countries, we will collapse under our own debt.

I don't consider this a large cut, but any government cut means more job losses.
Everybody in theory will need to pay a lot more out of pocket for their health care going forward. So unions, military, etc will not be exempt.

BTW for all of you that think that medicare is free for seniors, I added up this past weekend what it would cost for myself and my husband, and it comes to about 600 mo according to medicare guidelines. That monthly number includes premiums and typical out of pocket expenses incurred for younger retirees. That number with each year goes up a lot as more out of pocket expenses occur.

So...if the average retiree gets 1100.00 mo from SS with about 25 percent of retirees having a pension, and according to Wells Fargo have only 10-30,000 saved for retirement, I am failing to see how most seniors will be able to pay for that "free" medicare.

Once again, the math does not add up. The X and Y generation will be paying a lot more in taxes in their lifetime because otherwise the boat sinks.

$487B over ten years? Ron Paul has a plan to cut $1T in one year. With out cutting defense, but strengthening it!

Ron Paul 2012!!

Wow... surprise surprise... Cut more jobs while Government pockets stay fat

EngEsq - first off, please site source your claim that France was spending 7%+ before the start of WWII and 50%+ in the middle ages......

Influence is not entirely tied to military size, nor is influence equalled to world unrest. We were never closer to nuclear holocaust then during the Cuban missle crisis when two countries had huge worldwide influence.

If you want to stretch the cold war to fine. If it was not for the technical and scientific developments that where produced during the cold war, we would be decades behind today. With that said it was an arms race however what most people fail to observe, it was a game of puff, puff. No war ever took place, no territories where invaded, no lives where where taken in the name of the cold war... What happened? Military might and power forced each others hands, called each others bluff. We can thank the nukes in the air 24-7 on both sides ready to go at a moments notice. Scary, yes... Close to extending ww2, yes. However it panned out. Thus the argument your trying to make is really in support of military might.

I know my history very well, traveled all over Europe and visited many of the historic sites first hand too....

Get back at me when you pull your facts.....

Clif, world stability is maintained as we speak. The world is like a giant chess board. Those countries you listed, despite what we think are the pawns and are sacrificial in the big scheme of things. If you really want to go there they where never stable throughout history, and now is about as stable as they have ever been.

Mike, it isn't this now, and then that, and then when that is done it will be the other. It is cuts across the board, all at the same time, all because one party wanted to play big games to unseat a president no matter WHAT the collateral damage was going to be. Our military is still spending almost as much as the rest of the world combined. The republicans, being one half of congress agreed to let this happen, they also agreed to allow us to lose our AAA credit status. Not to say the dems didn't have anything to do with it, but it was the republicans stated goal. We all have to live with it. Let me remind everyone, the president can't spend money, the president doesn't write the budget, only proposes what he thinks it could/should be. Only the house can propose the budget, propose spending and then the senate has to agree. As I said, both sides have mud on them.

Tea Party, two questions. Are you happy now? Where are the jobs you ran on in 2010?

EngEsq: Uh.... ur actually wrong. We are way behind. We are less advanced than the Chinese civilization for they have been around for thousands of years compared to our country's 229 years of independence and by the way Chinese invented gunpowder.

Before we start cutting lowly paid soldiers and anything having to do with our military, we need to cut overpaid government employees. At least our soldiers are doing something worthwhile, what do government employees do except expect taxpayers to keep funding their outrageous salaries and pensions while producing nothing. Obama is slashing us open and leaving us for the vultures. You can be sure he won't be living here once he's done with us. He'll take the millions from all the payoffs he's received from the countries that he's given all of our money to and move to an island somewhere. And, all the while he'll be smiling the awful smile of his and saying F* you America.

Deb-Love - possibly the most ridiculous post I've seen. President Obama is now going to leave the US after he leaves the White House? And where did you come up with that gem? Oh, in that unbelievable creative mind of yours...cause that's the only place it would play! And where is the proof he's taking payoffs? It would be far less ridiculous to make that claim against his predecessor since he was in bed with the oil nations. Seriously, how totally out of touch is the far right now? Oh wait - you've already shown us!

Iam sure most of you have not served in the military but here are a couple of questions you may be able to entertain anyway.

Why is it that everytime $$'s need to be cut its the military personnel that suffers the most in DOD reductions? I guess we just did our job and are simply put aside.

Why do military retirees always get the shaft but civillians on Social Security manage to escape?

Boy you are clueless. That is just right wing drivel.

Instead of starting at the bottom of the ladder lets start at the top and work our way down. imagine the saving when you fire some high ranking politicle crooks who looks out for themselves rather than there country! Pull out ll our military personal bring them home and protect this nation not kill it.

Here we go again....answer is the same reason the first cuts on the local lever are firemen and police!

President Eisenhower said in 1961 before leaving office:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes".

This country did not listen then, to our last great American leader with integrity. Are we listening now? The influence will soon be bombing the media and greasing congress's palms.

This isn't a cut. They're just shaping the military to contain China over a long period of time. This involves the Air Force and Navy, both of which are getting upgraded. Ground battles aren't needed at this point so you can fund the restructure by eliminating the ground pounders. It's just common sense.

First, quantity is not quality, and McCain should note that the projected level of Army and Marine personnel on active duty is not less than we had prior to 9/11. We will always need ground troops, but their movement is slow compared to aircraft and missiles, and they are increasingly vulnerable to hightech weapons developed by the other side. I prefer that we pursue additional use of our own missles, drones and robotic weapons and save as many American lives as possible.

Second, those who demand our government be smaller, more efficient and spend less tend to forget that the Pentagon is part of the government, and should be held to the same standards as the rest of the government. I was in the USAF during the 60's, served in an Aerial Port Squadron (air freight) at Travis AFB, loading/unloading aircraft and warehouse work. We had constant arrival of commercial carriers (e.g., Flying Tigers) bringing in tons of equipment, materials and supplies. But we only sent out on military aircraft (e.g., C-130s, C-141s) to Nam and other areas of SE Asia a part of what we received because more was ordered than was needed or could be used, but the private companies sending it still got paid for all of it in good old US taxpayer dollars. We filled up the warehouses and then had to just store the stuff out on the tarmac in the elements. Get the picture? We need to kick those arm chair generals in the Pentagon in the butt and tell them to do their jobs more efficiently, or we'll get someone to replace them. As a case in point, have you ever seen the movie "Pentagon Wars" with Kelsey Grammer? It's based on a true story and is about the development of the Bradley fighting machine. If you can't rent it somewhere, at least Google it and read what it is about. If what you see there doesn't p--- you off, nothing will. Remember, Eisenhower warned us about the military/industrial complex.

:( H

@Against Union Thievery

This isn't where we should be making cuts. This is commiting suicide for America. ,

Suicide? Give me a fcking break. Remember all that BS about automatic defense cuts if the not-so "super committee" failed to cut the budget? That "huge" defense cut would have rolled us all the way back to...wait for it...2008 level of spending. This cut is HALF of that. If you had to roll your budget back to what it was a whole 4 years ago would you be able to survive? I suspect so.

This is a 10 year plan........you won't even notice the changes......

Oh yes Sally, thats exactly what the Republicans wanted was to cut out our military, you interpretation genius.

R-U ready boots ??... START WALKING !!!...no one gives a damn about No One, only if their Wanted or Needed..whata a dog eat dog World........

Funny thing is, the military is almost the only line item on the budget that is constitutional. They really should slash everything unconstitutional out of the budget and then you would see $2 trillion payments on the national debt. This whole ridiculous thing is about reducing the deficit, and yet they are continuing to spend more than they take from those of us who work and don't sit on our butts waiting for a handout.

As someone I know said recently, wealthy people don't like dead leaves on their lawns. Go borrow or buy a rake and offer to do the work for a little less than their gardener or lawn service. The only problem with this, is that most people are too lazy to do a decent job so wouldn't get paid anyway.

and Intelligent questioner, you would see millions of citizens milling about the streets homeless wondering who has all the SS tax dollars, retirement funds and medicare dollars they paid in. It would open up a whole new industry in the US though, someone would have to remove all the dead from the streets and unclog the collapsing sewers. How about another cup of tea, sir?

The modest cuts in troops in the standing military will come from attrition. No one is getting fired. The personnel savings would be a tiny amount of the total savings. Remeber, troop strength is still above pre-911 size.

I'd be willing to wager that most of the respondents on this string don't have the foggiest idea what they are talking about. Very few people have a working knowledge of what our military capabilities are and yet most of you like to armchair-quarterback like you're a standing member of the Joint Chiefs. What a bunch of a$$ clowns! You agree because you agree. If it was a Republican suggesting the idea, it would miraculously become a stupid and dangerous notion. Internet intellect, everybody's a genius!

Scatter the hardware around our nation and just a few bases overseas. Most of it could be maintained in a ready to use status for a lot less than it takes to have it being deployed to maintain a high profile. We may need to retain capacity, without needing to maintain the huge numbers of civilians and a lesser number of active duty military. Maybe expand the reserves, who could maintain the equipment during their 2 weeks a year and on weekends. Let the other countries of the world pay for their own defense and end the senseless wars.

To all of you people out there who think that these cuts aren't enough and that think we should make more drastic cuts to the size of the military to reduce the deficit, I just want to say that there are other ways that we can reduce the deficit than by cutting the military. Most of the weapons systems we have are newer and we have not gotten out moneys worth out of them yet, retiring them early would be wasteful. If the government would be more accountable for how all of its agencies spent money then that would save billions right there. Also we need to cut programs that give a free ride to lazy freeloaders who don't want to even look for a job and have more kids just to get more money. We also need to stop giving money to illegal immigrants and just send them back to where they came from. Those are only a coupel examples of better ways the save money than cutting the military.

I see that this plan screws over military retirees again. They will be forced to pay for their medical insurance - in spite of that facts that (1) their injuries occurred while on active duty (defending this country), and (2) their injuries make them uninsurable in the civilian world. As a retiree - I was told (many years ago) that my health care would be provided by a grateful nation. Now it seems that I will be required to pay several thousand dollars each year for an inferior health plan (pays doctors less than any other plan in the the USA) that most doctors refuse to accept. But since I am uninsurable due to A/D injuries - I have to accept this breach of contract.

Nice to know that the military are disposable when not wanted. I am now urging every young person that I know to stay away from the military. Let the children of the rich defend this country (since they are unwilling to pay sufficient taxes to support it). Maybe then - the government would honor its word and commitments to retirees and vets.

I say the first and most radical line item cuts be:

1) President's salary, benefits, and retirement

2) Senator's salary, benefits, and retirement

3) Representative's salary, benefits, and retirement

Feel free to begin any and all necessary or needed cuts only after these initial cuts are made.

How about if they started taxing fairly according to all compensation and financial gains, that is received by individuals when it comes April 15th? How about the US demanding a listing of US citizens that have money stashed in their nations or else face a complete embargo including no in and out travel for US citizens? Currently 50% of this nation lives in poverty or in the lowest economic class; yet, you have executives making $145 million a year. That's right, he makes more, on the first day of the year, before his first coffee break than the average American makes in a year. You think I feel sorry for him, if he has to pay 35%? Oh my, that only leaves him $94,250,000 to survive on, how will he make it. Our tax system is a JOKE! Then people want to talk a flat tax. All that will do is benefit the rich, who are SUPPOSED to be taxed at 35% as well as corporations. If we go to a flat tax those are the only people it will benefit and they will laugh their a$$es off all the way to the bank at everyone else in this nation because. As proven by Romney (15.8% tax) paying less than most Americans, our entire tax code all 76000 pages of it are stuffed with exemptions and deductions that benefit but a few Americans. Now if you can afford to pay an accountant $50,000 I'm sure he'll find a couple breaks for you. Seriously, alright Romney paid what $15 million in taxes over the past 2 years but, he's also made how much? Do you really think that he even felt that little speed bump in the road. Then they talk about wanting to charge a flat tax on the 17.6% of those who live in poverty but make less than $12,000 per year. Who do you really think will feel the impact. There's where the money is to fix our nation's debt problem and balancing the budget. Yes, I think we need an across the board cut of at least 5% within the government but, as many have already noted, there is A LOT of wasted spending in the military. If that was looked at a whole lot closer, they could easily find $1 trillion over the next decade in addition to this.

here-we-go-again

Why do military retirees always get the shaft but civillians on Social Security manage to escape?

I have a mentally ill relative who receives a whopping $756 per month from Social Security. She barely survives on her less than $10,000 annually and she would really like to work, but can't get hired because of her illness. Can you honestly tell me you want to give her even less to live on? I also have another relative who has a child with ADHD and she receives $600 per month from Social Security. Can you tell me why she needs $600 a month for a non-debilitating illness for a child? That's what's wrong with Social Security, people receiving it that DON'T need or deserve it.

@David Walker:

The overall state of the Army is not really all that great right now. We are tired, our equipment is worn, and we are very worried. These cuts are scaring us. We are still using equipment that was designed generations ago. The newest weapon we have is the M320, which just came out. Our second newest is the M9 pistol, which is a pos, developed in the 1980's. Soldiers are pissed about the new GI bill, not because it comes short, quite the opposite, it is great, however soldiers had to pay for the old GI bill and when the new one took effect we were told that we would not be paid back the money they invested in it. It wasn't a huge amount of money, it is the fact that soldiers feel like they are getting screwed. The brass and Washington have been saying that they won't break faith with us and reduce our retirement, and yet they adjust it for those that are already retired. Soldier's moral sucks as of now, and as a leader I feel powerless to do anything about the issues that have caused the drop in moral, because frankly I am powerless. In addition the Army which has fought two wars for over a decade is now going to receive the brunt of the cuts....

It never ceases to amaze me that people think that some budget cuts will leave us at risk. Considering the vast number of weapons we make, weapons that citizens own, etc., it'll be a very frosty day on hell that anyone will do anything to this country, and actually get away with it. Besides, do you people have any clue to how many people that work for this country, that are monitoring EVERYTHING that is going on?

StephAce

it'll be a very frosty day on hell that anyone will do anything to this country

Someone already did, or have you forgotten 9/11.

@Greg-621390

our entire tax code all 76000 pages of it are stuffed with exemptions and deductions that benefit but a few Americans.

Your post is cram packed full of nonsense and drivel but I don't want to spend an hour here so I'll limit my response. The deductions and exemptions "benefit" pretty much everyone; standard deduction, child tax credit, earned income credit, deductions for medical and education expense, deduction for child or elderly care just to name a few. You think these things only benefit the rich? And I would like you to show me where anyone has suggested a flat tax without a standard deduction for everyone ensuring that people only making 12k a year still pay nothing.

As for Romney and his 15% tax rate please take a moment to educate yourslef as to why the cap gains tax is only 15%. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with loopholes.

There's where the money is to fix our nation's debt problem and balancing the budget. Yes, I think we need an across the board cut of at least 5% within the government but,

There's where the money is? You mean taxing the wealthy? Well let me give you the facts- If we took every single penny from every single millionaire and billionaire in the US it would only cover one third of the deficit for one year and wouldn't even touch the debt. Clearly the "money" is not where you've been conned into believing it is and clearly a 5% across the board cut won't make a difference. In fact it wouldn't even bring us back to what we spent in 2008. You really believe that's going to amount to jack shti? We'd still be spending FAR more than we take in, increasing the debt each and every year even if you factor in your trillion dollars of waste over a 10 year period.

try 50% of "defense" budget as a starting point. Close 90% of overseas bases. Cut the "new toys"

Perhaps someone could take the checkbook away from Obama and his 'stimulation' of 'green energy companies. Off the top there are now six companies, companies who received scads of federal monies and are now bancrupt, and the money? Disappeared, never to be seen again.

1. Solyndra $535 billion.

2. Beacon Power $43 million

3. Ener1 $118 million

4. Range Fuels $72 million

5. Mt. Plaza $424,000.00 (peanuts compared to solyndra)

6. Evergreen Solar who managed to grab: $125million stimulus, $55 million from the state of Massachusetts, $5.3 federal stimulus money, $984,000 additional fed money along with $758,388 in Renewable Energy Bonds.

So, with all those companies getting essentially the amount of money which is slated to be cut from the military, perhaps a long and hard look should be given to Obama, the Dept of Energy, The EPA and a host of other federal agencies with a seemingly endless supply of money to give to green energy so that they can declare bancruptcy. Moan about the military, at least some of that money isn't going away as a result of bancruptcies.

I think we have to face the fact that our elected Representatives deserve a public strangling and should be served up at a giant sacrificial hill, and let Democracy be born again !!!!!!!!!!!

@mygirl1 -- First, Solyndra cost $535 million (one half billion dollars). Your list adds up to $768 million over five companies. No, Evergreen Solar does not count - you are comparing apples and oranges.

It took Obama 5 tries to spend $768 million. That's nothing compared to the military - they can lose $1 billion in a single shot.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332038,00.html

The B-2 bomber lost on Guam cost $929 million.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/18/alaska-prepares-ground-search-missing-pilot/

The F-22 Raptor lost in Alaska cost $150 million.

http://www.huliq.com/3257/78924/pilot-dies-f-22a-raptor-crash-mojave-desert

The F-22 Raptor test craft lost in the Mojave Desert cost $138 million.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/drone-lost-in-iran-was-joint-cia-military-reconnaissance-plane/

The RQ-170 drone lost over Iran cost around $30 million.

The United States has lost 550 UAV drone aircraft of varying age and capabilities over Afghanistan - at an average cost of around $15 million for each loss. The United States military spent about $8 billion on lost UAV aircraft over 9 years.

What President Obama has lost on 'green' energy is nickel and dime stuff compared to what the military looses and discards.

GimDan, could you please explain why the United States of America needs to be this global police force ? I missed that part of the Constitution.

Here's the facts plain and simple, there would be no WW3 if we pulled out of the Middle East. Our elected officials have our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters dying in large numbers and IT IS NOT for freedom, democracy, liberty, or doing what's "right". It's about expanding the former Constitutional Republic that was the United States, now some form of empire based off an enormous military machine (the only product we produce in the US), special interest groups, corporations, expanding the empire (700+ military bases outside the US), greed, and power. If it was about doing what's right there's 5 countries off the top of my head that could use someone doing what's actually right for once. Our elected officials and false media create these bogeymen and bumps in the night to make us believe we need them, from the Cold War to Operation Cyclone (major contributor if not creator of Taliban and Al-Qaeda) to Saddam Hussein to our current "pickle" that our elected officials keep throwing pieces of paper at. None of these bad guys can actually invade the US, yet we occupy their countries and we wonder why they're mad. And even if they are these bad monsters, I actually think they are, but let's get our house straight before we start complaining about the guy in the next town overs messy yard.

We all have a personal responsibility for ourselves that we seem to have lost, or are too lazy to care about anymore. I'm just as much to blame for what's going as our elected officials, as are you. And don't give me the 'ole "Change it with your vote." garbage, I do vote regularly, but I'm also aware it's a facade. We have allowed this "noble lie" and security blanket of federal government's job to cloud our vision to what The Constitution actually means, and we've allowed it to be twisted in our names. The Constitution and the federal governments job is to protect the American citizens freedom and liberty from the threat of big government, the states and WE are supposed to take care of the rest. It's 2012, you can't tell me we haven't evolved enough for that, we're just lazy, scared, and content.

Health care fees for retirees will increase, including co-pays and deductibles.

A lot of people gave the prime years of ther adult lives to our country, with the promise of a lifetime of healthcare. While I understand retirees should bear part of the cost, our government keeps changing the rules for those who signed their enlistment contract believing they'd be taken care of in exchange for a career of service.

ONCE AGAIN REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS

If you don't know what the above means stay off of Newsvine "Get Smarter Here".

EMOTIVE UNINFORMED OPINION:

Steven1 - Given that the US will still have twice as many aircraft carriers than the rest of the world put together, not really a dramatic attempt at deficit reduction.

FACTS:

The reason why President Obama backpeddled so fast on his April 2009 US Military Defense Budget Cut of one USN Aircraft Carrier Battlegroup (one USN Aircraft Carrier, one USN Air Wing, many Support Ships, Screening Ships and Submarines) is NOT because of "the World Threat". It was because when I heard about this, I started calling and emailing all my USN Friends; they in turn called and emailed all their Workers (US Labor Unions: Dock Workers, Dry Dock Workers, Machinists, Electricians, Longshoremen, Crane Operators, Maintenance Workers, Pipefitters, Metal Workers, etc.), the US Labor Unions (hundreds of thousands, including other Unions sympathetic to their cause) then threatened to drive down from Virginia to hold Strikes at the White House to stop their being thrown on Unemployment.

EMOTIVE UNINFORMED OPINION:

EngEsq - Agreed, they could halve our defense budget and still spend more than the next largest military budget (China) THREE TIMES OVER.

FACTS:

EngEsq = English Lawyer (Not even a US Citizen (previous EngEsq Newsvine posts). Saying Lies like inclusive as if you are a US Civilian like "we", "us", "our".

EngEsq. Stick to doing what you were trained and educated to do, LYING as Errors of Omission, Facts as Irrelevant, etc..

I wanted President Obama's Automatic Budget Cuts of 10% of the US Military Defense Budget to occur. Then a million US Civilians would have been thrown on Unemployment (source http://www.whitehouse.gov/). Then all of you uneducated, uninformed, non factual emotive opinionated people would finally shut up while eating your Obamachow (Rationed one can per week of Dog Food of undetermined sources) during the next Great Depression.

And because England has it's head so far up the US arse, the US Farts and the English all say smells like fish and chips. So when the US goes into a Great Depression (people literally starving to death), England will be worse off (cannibal meat pies; how's using corpses for fuel working for you now).

If you want to chop the US Military Defense Budget Cut by 50% sure, FIRST, let's throw the almost hundred million expensive overpaid US Civilians on Unemployment and replace them with below minimum wage US Military Personnel.

The Chinese still take people out and execute them for Contract Delays, Contract Fraud, Contract Disputes, "Crimes Against the People", etc.. At the US because of Lawyers (Liars) like you, these US Military Contracts are tied up in US Courts, as the longer a US Manufacturer does this the more money they make (and US Civilians hired longer).

The Chinese Government gets an aircraft grade bolt ("Patriotic" Government Rates and Prices) for a Chinese Yuan, while the US must pay $10 for the same bolt Made In the US, due to the US Military Paying a "Fair and Living Wage", this is the same as the $300 Hammer and the expensive USAF Toilet Seat, as US Law (US Code) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services".

How about this, EngEsq, you provide your physical home address to all British Citizens, then allow the US Military to close all US Military Installations at not so Great Britain, including those that the British Citizens do not know of, so when the angry mobs of your thousands of fellow British Citizens go on the Dole, they come and visit you and let you know how they feel. Nice to talk out of your posterior when you have "no skin in the game". This would include no longer sending US Military Personnel to attend British Military Schools (that are kept open by this US Funding), and don't say no, I attended a few, as well as the training at Scotland (if you don't know what that is, you don't know sh!t about your own British Military).

mike-464493,

Do you even know what is happening?

FACTS:

It is US Congress's Job to find the money to Appropriate for those US Laws that they enact.

The US Military Defense Budget was previously Appropriated (Budgeted For).

Social Security is paid for by Payroll Deductions from US Citizens, it was US Congress that kept Robbing the Social Security Funds. With the US Politicians then renaming this from a Contributory Fund to "Entitlements" so that they do not have to payback all the money they stole.

US Congress Refused to Work on the US Budget and passed Continuing Resolutions (CR's) based on the last Budget they did approve.

The Ulterior Motive for US Congress NOT working on the US Budget was due to the NOT Budgeted for, President Obama Health Care Reform Act of $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion. US Congress thru these Budget Cuts, can come up with $1.2 Trillion; but not the .5 Trillion USDs. So here we are cutting something that was already Budgeted for to pay for something that was NOT Budgeted for (and really accomplishes nothing (Insurance Corporations increasing Premiums to cover future losses once President Obama's Health Care Reform Act becomes active). The end result of Cutting the Budget for something that was Budgeted for, is the end of long term projects and programs (example: US Army Corps of Engineer long term Infrastructure Projects and Programs within the US (Of course all of you did not know that is why Katrina wiped out New Orleans, a previous US Military Defense Budget Cut, so no money for the US Army Corps of Engineers to modify, upgrade, build new, rebuild, the Levees at New Orleans as scheduled long before Katrina per US Congressional Katrina Hearings. Same problem currently with the US Army Corps of Engineers not having money to dredge Rivers, Streams, etc. resulting in the Flooding, no money to create or upgrade Reservoirs resulting in droughts).

You want to Balance the Budget, simple tell US Congress NOT to fund President Obama's previously NOT Budgeted for Health Care Reform Act costing US Citizens $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion. (If you want real Health Care Reform, as what long time proponent of Health Care Reform, Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted, In Act President FDR's Universal Health Care For All US Citizens (done by getting the Insurance Corporations OUT of the Medical Profession, resulting in a decrease in Medical Treatment Costs by 80%, this includes getting the Insurance Corporations out of Medicare, US Military TriCare, etc. and padding their costs to make Profits of $17 Billion to $18 Billion per year from just Medicare as paid for by the US Citizens according to President Obama). US Citizens would pay $50 for Unlimited Medical Treatments.

here-we-go-again - Why is it that everytime $$'s need to be cut its the military personnel that suffers the most in DOD reductions? I guess we just did our job and are simply put aside.

FACT: US Military Personnel used as Femine Hygene Products, as used then flushed down the toilet. President Obama's 2012 State of the Union Address "Strong US Military and treatments of US Military Veterans OR Medicare, Medicaid, etc., cannot afford both, it is the people's decision" (President Obama putting the blame on the people instead of taking Responsibility as US President). Go watch youtube.com.

Armyguy-3910615,

What you are saying is lost on the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military.

Then there are the Foreigners like EngEsq that keep lying by being inclusive as a Brit saying "we", "us", "our" etc. as if he is even a US Citizen and not what he posted before that he is a Brit Lawyer (trained Liar by profession).

Most of these uninformed do not realize that prior to the Pearl Harbor Attack the US Military was sailing around in Battleships made from 1911 to 1917 that were not upgraded to the new Warfare of Aircraft with Anti Aircraft Batteries, except for BB-35, USS Texas; however, the USS Texas was not an Operational Battleship but a Anti Aircraft Battery Training Vessel.

Roadhouse Blues - I prefer that we pursue additional use of our own missles, drones and robotic weapons and save as many American lives as possible.

Already defeated by the current Generation of Chinese and Russian Federation Military Technologies.

Read this (this is no longer the 1960s): http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz

Roadhouse Blues - Remember, Eisenhower warned us about the military/industrial complex.

President Eisenhower was a hypocrite that got US Military killed Unnecessarily. Without the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR to get the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression 1939 before US Entry into WWII 1941, with the Sales of US "War Materials", General Eisenhower would have Failed, never became SACEUR, and never became US President.

After he did become US President based on his popularity from WWII, he backstabbed those that made him by chopping the US Military Defense Budget (less needed from the US Military Defense Industrial Complex, more US Citizens become Unemployed). The US Economy started to tank, the Korean Conflict (War, a UN Mission) saved his arse. As Commander In Chief, President Eisenhower orders the US Military to send a Task Force to Korea to stop the North Korean Advances, this US Military Task Force, Task Force Smith, lacks Anti Tank Ammunition (everyone' belief in the new weapon to deter Wars, the Atomic Bomb), the amount of time for restarting the US Military Defense Industrial Complex is years before more US Military Equipment can be produced. Task Force Smith gets massacred by the North Korean Tanks, throughout the begining of the Korean Conflict the US Military is constantly ill equipped, with it being common to be overrun and massacred after running out of ammunition, lacking Winter Clothing (previously made by the US Military Defense Industrial Complex) frostbite and freezing to death become common events, the US Military at the Korean Conflict is normally retreating. As General Eisenhower was a great Bureaucrat and Politician; but not a Military Strategist, as to why Operation Market Garden occurred (more unnecessary US and US Allies Deaths). The US Military Defense Industrial Complex finally restarts (Recalls Civilians previously laid off, takes out of mothballs many of the closed Plants and Factories). US President Eisenhower brings in a real US Military General, General MacArthur, and still does not listen to his expert, result the Korean War becomes a stalemate, and the Korean War continues today.

Roadhouse Blues - As a case in point, have you ever seen the movie "Pentagon Wars" with Kelsey Grammer? It's based on a true story and is about the development of the Bradley fighting machine.

Wasted my time watching that, more emotive non factual uneducated opinions, NOT FACTS. Why don't you go to the US Military Project Management Course, then you will have to learn (or fail the course) all the US Laws (restrictions) pertaining to US Military Project Management and Procurement. These US Laws are still in effect.

canary-in-the-coal-mine - try 50% of "defense" budget as a starting point. Close 90% of overseas bases. Cut the "new toys"

Like I said before sure chop the "Defense" Budget by 50% by throwing almost a hundred million expensive overpaid US Citizens on Unemployment and replace them with below minimum wage US Military Personnel.

First Shut down ALL the US Military Installations at EngEsq (Great Britain).

And how about you demanding that all the US Military Installations at YOUR State be shut down instead of you sucking off Uncle Sugar's Tits also.

canary-in-the-coal-mine - Cut the "new toys"

Armyguy-3910615 is correct, currently the US Military is using Equipment designed during the 1980s and 1990s. While the other Nations are building Current Generation Technology to negate even our Current Generation Technology. US standing still due to politics (US Congressional Representatives demanding US Military Equipment built in their States (Jobs) be bought by the US Military (not because it is better) via the US Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee pressure as "Do this (buy that) or no Money".). That is how sh!t at D.C., Dysfunctional Congress (those you hired) works.

Nerm_L,

REALLY UNINFORMED Nerm_L, JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHERS.

WHO MAKES ALL THAT SH!T:

Pricey Jet Fighters Add Up To Local Jobs

CBS Evening News: Funding For F-22 Jets Is On The Chopping Block, But Building Them Keeps 95,000 People Employed
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/25/eveningnews/main4893248.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;2

Historically, During the Great Depression, President FDR realized that US Consumerism could not get the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression, but like what Germany, Italy and Japan did years before could (and did) selling "War Materials". (example: Think how many Apple iPhones Made In China you would have to sell to equal just one F-15 Made In the US sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia (decreases US Trade Deficits) as Foreign Military Sales (FMS), then there are the later Civilian Jobs to provide Repair Parts (numbers of hours flown), Factory Rebuilds, Maintenance, Upgrades, Modifications, etc. that keep US Civilians employed for decades and the US gets hundreds of Millions (Each F-15).). So during the Great Depression President FDR Nationalizes all US Businesses and US Industry (Creation of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex), suspends all US Labor Union Activities as suspected "Italian Organized Crime" sympathetic to Mussolini (and he was correct since they striked to slow down or stop the US Military Liberations of Sicily and Italy), and starts to sell "War Materials" getting the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression 1939, before US Enry into WWII 1941, this however, pisses off the Germans so they deploy U-Boats to start sinking the Merchant Marine (USN Reserves) Ships going to and from England. Winston Churchill demands thru US Ambassador Kennedy for the US to get into the War or England will Fall (Dunkirk and Finding out about German Operation Sea Lion (invasion of England). President FDR realizes that the Isolationist US Entering the War will help the US recover from the Great Depression; but, realizes all his previous attempts to get the US into the War have failed (US Flying Tigers at China, MacArthur at the Phillipines, USN Gunboats attacking Japanese Warships going to and from China (like USN Panai), Sanctions and Embargoes against Japan including gyping them out of all the Oil and Coal that they had already paid for, etc. Read these before you say no:

At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor by Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon (May 1, 2001)

Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert B. Stinnett (May 8, 2001)

And before you say "Conspiracy Theory" go read the 1995 US Congressional Investigation and the Resulting 1999 US Congressional Exhonorations of Admiral Kimmel and General Short (US Military Commanders at Oahu Hawaii prior to and during the Pearl Harbor Attacks).

So once again, Nerm_L, WHO MAKES ALL THAT SH!T. All of you have to admit it the only reason why you have your current Standard of Living and not living like an Afghan is due to Blood Money of the one thing that the US still manufacturers, "War Materials" ever since before WWII. (And do not even give me that President Obama sh!t about US Automakers (as US Labor Unions (UAW) are only 6-9% of the current US "Work Force", what about the other 91% of US Citizens (Jobs)).

Superskunk - Our elected officials and false media create these bogeymen and bumps in the night to make us believe we need them, from the Cold War to Operation Cyclone (major contributor if not creator of Taliban and Al-Qaeda)

LOL you must be like what 18 or 19 using wikipedia as a reference:

Wikipedia General Disclaimer: WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

As if you were not 18 or 19, and were around during the "Cold War" (1945 to 1990) AND like I was involved in Operation Cyclone you would NOT be saying Conspiracy Theorist baloney.

FACTS:

During the USSR 40th Army Occupation, we were sent to Pakistan and Afghanistan as demanded by Senator Charles Wilson, Democrat Texas. As Afghanistan was built up by the US during the 1950s to 1970s as a Little America US Ally, Canals, Electricity, Telephones, Airports, Highways, etc..

We trained the Afghan Refugees at the Afghan Refugee Camps at Pakistan and accompanied them into Combat, just like we did after being sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. They become the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen. Prior to Training them we (US Military Training Teams attached to SAD) photographed, fingerprinted, recorded names addresses relatives names ages dates of birth detailed descriptions birth marks etc.

The Pro USSR Afghans (about 50% of population) fled Afghanistan to USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran due to the USSR 40th Army Total Conventional War (Carpet Bombing, use of Chemical Weapons (Agent Purple, Mustard Gas, Poisioning Water Wells, etc.), Tank Divisions leveling villages and massacring inhabitants, millions of area denial weapons (landmines), etc.). The USSR 40th Army was massacring all Afghans, Pro USSR or Pro US, did not matter.

Osama Bin Laden was still living with his rich Relatives at Saudi Arabia forming his new Anti US Ally Saudi Government and Anti US Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization, Al Quada.

The only CIA that Osama Bin Laden would have been associated with would have been during his time at NYC before the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombing, as the NYC Culinary Institute of America.

After the defeat of the USSR 40th Army Occupation by our US Ally the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen the Pro USSR Afghans returned from Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, due to their length of time at Fundamentalist Islamic Iran most become Fundamentalist Islamic, as the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban. The US Abandons US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen that have very little funds, fighters, weapons, ammunition, etc. left after defeating the USSR 40th Army, they lose popularity of War torn Afghanistan without US Support to rebuild Little America Afghanistan. The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban backed by USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran very easily massacre the surviving 20,000 to 50,000 US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen.

This is where the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban came from and are still being supported by Fundamentalist Islamic Iran today.

The massacres of US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, is why when we were sent in weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we could not find any of them, and had to instead ally ourselves to the Northern Alliance to: 1. Defeat the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government that provided Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada, and supported the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps., 2. Reestablish a Democracy., 3. Seize and Secure locations for the arrival of the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces., 4. Mission added 2006 after President Bush amended the US No Assassination Policy, Termination of Osama Bin Laden.

After this US Congress Declares War With Iraq, previous House of Representatives H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" becomes US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011, President Clinton's Justification Weapons of Mass Destruction (THAT IS WHERE THAT WMD SH!T CAME FROM, NOT BUSH). US Senate, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution. We (survivors) are then sent to Iraq to conduct Operation Hotel California. Because of President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies we went in Blind into most (covert) US Military Operations; his Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies that took decades to build left the US in the dark, with Intelligence Blackouts of entire Regions resulting in the 9/11 2001 Attacks (according to the findings and investigations of the US Congressional 9/11 Committee). The Cut to the Bone President Clinton Reduction In Forces (RIFs) of the US Military decreased the numbers of US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces that independently verify Intelligence thru Special Reconnaissance (with or without uniforms).

And Superskunk and all the other Newsvine Posters don't even say NO, I survived all the crap above. If you don't believe me, how about this go to the VFWs, gain their trust (might take weeks, months), then start asking questions. You just might find some of those that were involved in the above, and they will tell you about details NOT in the books, just like I can.

Charlie-486680 - mygirl1............ neither you or anyone else takes away the President's checkbook

Want to bet. Hey, mygirl1, start a movement to petition US Congress, with the promise that if US Congress does nothing, that everyone in your movement will kick their sorry arses out of US Congress. Social Media worked for the Egyptians, Syrians, etc. so you can do that too.

LOL. Charlie-486680, Elementary School, US Congress "Holds the Purse Strings", the US President does not.

Charlie-486680 - you are nothing, just an old bag with an opinion & wishing you were more important.

Beating up on mygirl1 really makes you feel manly doesn't it.

david-475776, first of all I thought MY RANTS were long, but WOW ! I understand your fear leads to wild and baseless accusations about using Wikipedia as a reference (BTW, I don't even know what newsvine is). I'm used to it, when people like yourself have nothing else to argue with me about, they go to name calling and silly false accusations like an afraid child. I'm actually quite well read, and I always investigate something from both sides. My personal library is full of works from authors like Aldous Huxley, William F Buckley, Paulo Friere, Noam Chomsky, Carroll Quigley, Ann Coulter, Cornel West, Conrad Blacks biography of FDR, David Horowitz, Thich Nhat Hanh, W.E.B. DuBois, Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., Marcus Cicero, Jacques Monod, and Machiavelli to name a few.

You should really know what you're speaking of before you make empty and false accusations. It kind of discredits anything you have to say going forward. But I'm full of love instead of fear like yourself, so I forgive you and understand.

So on to the truth, and I was trying to avoid detail, but it seems like that might get my point across to someone like yourself. You speak of a pending depression, I agree, but it's not going to be caused by Obama or any President. It's going to be caused when this flimsy system we have from banking to the federal government comes crashing down. Your other depression claims are baseless and nonsense. The prices are so high for items purchased by our federal government from military technology to a hammer, because the Treasury and the non government un-Constitutional corporation The Federal Reserve allow it.

Fact: The US Federal Government produces nothing, so if they have to find money for their un-Constitutional laws, they have to take it from somewhere else. US taxpayers like me and you. I'm tired of paying for bullets and bombs to kill some insurgents and a lot of civilians, while my brothers, cousins, and friends come home in body bags or wounded for a war fueled by greed.

As far as the budget goes, I agree government healthcare, as well as welfare and other social programs are mostly un-Constitutional. What you fail to point out is our elected officials constantly go OVER budget for spending such as military, while social programs hardly ever go over budget and if they do it's minimal.

Our elected officials have put us in quite the predicament of almost needing the military machine factories or we lose jobs. That's no way to live and have a solid country and economy. Our entire way of life revolves around and depends on war, plain and simple.

What conspiracy theory did I speak of ? Operation Cyclone didn't exist ? Our Congress didn't secretly fund over $2 BILLION dollars for weapons to the mujahideen to fight off the Soviet bogeymen at the time, weapons which were distributed by our CIA ? Our Congress didn't cut off almost all funding which could have helped rebuild for a fraction of the $2 BILLION, after the Soviets were driven out ? Your claims that we had a significant military force in Afghanistan at the time is false, it was mostly CIA operatives doing training, very little battlefield support if any. Your claims about Osama Bin Laden not taking up arms during the late stages of Operation Cyclone are also false. Al-Qaeda and Taliban leadership did not have their beginnings during the Soviet-Afghan war ? We haven't poked Iran with a stick since our CIA placed government was ousted during the Revolution of '79, which gave us the evil Khomeini ? We didn't continue the stick poking by arming Saddam and Iraq to the teeth to attack Iran (At a time where Iran didn't have much military power or organization, Iranians would just drive cars into the Iraqi forces unarmed trying to kill as many as possible). Then after arming Saddam to the teeth, we didn't turn around and make him the bad guy ? We don't have over 700 military bases worldwide ?!?!? For what ? America IS NOT a global police force, and if we were why don't we have large numbers of troops in places like Sudan, Ivory Coast, Burma, Somalia, Congo, or Sri Lanka ? We have enough problems at home, lets get this messy house straight before we attempt to impose our will overseas.

Again your fear is causing you to assume I'm 18 or 19, and you're this old sage. Wrong again, born in the 70's, 7/4/76 to be exact in the original capital Philadelphia, and like I stated earlier I have educated myself on these issues, I'm not doing Google searches or Wikipedia for my information. I'm going to leave you with my two favorite quotes currently, both from the great Thich Nhat Hanh. Both great truths that all American citizens should read, absorb, and think about. Stop being afraid, if no other person does, know that I love you.

“In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us.”

"People have a hard time letting go of their suffering. Out of a fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar."

Superskunk: Interesting quotes. Now, please explain World War II. I suppose that was an event created by the US as well? As to arming Saddam, et al. The US has done so for generations, we have a history of arming our enemies and using them to fight our adversaries for us. Much easier than actually sending in an army or two.

Now, look closely at the American Revolution. Look at France and the roll which it played in the outcome. The arming of enemies is an old story, used for centuries. It is called opportunism. Now, what is there in the Middle East? What commodity is there? Think we would give a tinker's damn about the Middle East if there were no oil?

You state that you were born in the seventies. You never really understood what happened in Viet Nam or Korea, you were a child during Nam. Studying on a subject is great, doing so without bias is more difficult.

Charlie: You very brave, insult using Keyboard. Um hmm. Remind me, isn't the newsvine code all about refraining from personal attacks? Did you not understand that? I will follow the code because I really don't want to waste time and energy on someone so trivial.

Nerm: Yup, my math was wrong, typing billions when it should have been millions. My bad. However, it does not alter the fact that taxpayers are funding photo ops and political opportunism. These companies are all bancrupt, why is that? They had the support and money from the government, why did they fail and why is the government continuing to fund failing green businesses at the expense of more vital financial concerns?

How many missiles were lobbed at Libya, at a cost of how much? Now, what is happening in Libya? Who is in charge? Do you think it is wise to rattle sabers at China? That is the current direction of the administration, troop buildups in the Pacific and let us not forget Iran, shall we close the door on Iraq and move over to Iran?

Nerm: You might also appreciate the TARP disclosures released yesterday. Interesting how much was given and how much has yet to be repaid.

http://sigtarp.gov/reports/congress/2012/January_26_2012_Report_to_Congress.pdf

mygirl, WW2 isn't really relevant to the current conversation, but I'll play ball anyway. I wouldn't necessarily say that WW2 was an event created by the US. I used to think and also state that WW2 was the last war fought for doing what's right. But the more I've researched and learned lately, I'm not so sure. I still wouldn't say the US created that mess, but I also believe there was more to US involvement than doing what's right. Europe needed and begged for America's assistance, and I can't confirm this yet because my education is continually evolving, but I believe part of the deal involved England giving control of Israel to the Zionists. It also seems strange to me that former Federal Reserve Board member, and also German immigrant, Paul Warburg and his brother Max had controlling interests in IG Farben. Paul died just before Hitler took over power, but the relationship was already in place. IG Farben was the primary producer of the Zyklon B gas used in the Holocaust concentration camps. This corporation also had questionable ties with the Rockefellers Standard Oil, and other US interests.

The biggest issue that I have with WW2 though was FDR's speech announcing the 4 Freedoms. I believe this was a major pre-cursor to all future wars fought not for freedom, liberty, democracy, or what's right, and started this false belief that America is the world police. The first freedom was freedom of speech, which I agree with and is in the Constitution, and would have been fine if he didn't add "everywhere in the world". The second freedom was freedom to worship god, okay so far, but again he added "everywhere in the world". The third freedom is freedom from want, and again "everywhere in the world". How can a US President, or any US elected official guarantee freedom from want ? Besides the fact that it's not the federal governments job, is impossible ! And lastly he announced freedom from fear, "anywhere in the world", again impossible and not our federal government's job.

You confuse me me by stating that I couldn't have understood Vietnam or Korea, and then attempt to give me a history lesson about the American Revolution. Make up your mind and stop being a hypocrite. I wasn't alive during the Federal Reserve Act or the Income Tax Act, but I know for a fact both of those are un-Constitutional.

I'm glad you freely admit that the United States has created it's own enemies for years. I also am glad you admit that the expanding empire of the United States is occupying and killing civilians in the Middle East for oil, and that it's about special interests and corporate dollars. There's other oil in the world besides the Middle East, and even if there wasn't it's not moral to steal it through military like our elected officials are attempting to do.

And the one thing I keep saying over and over again, while I do blame our elected officials for creating this current empire, American citizens, and I'm just as much to blame as everyone else, are equally guilty and responsible for it.

We have become fat, lazy, and content, depending on our federal government to "protect" us when it is clearly not their job based on The Constitution. We all need to take personal responsibility, change ourselves, and then begin to change this mess our elected officials put us in. And we can't change it through the current voting process. I vote regularly, but I'm also fully aware this bipartisan system is complete BS, along with the electoral college. The only way we could make change through voting in today's system is if we could somehow organize a nationwide "sit in" where we all refused to vote.

As long as the American people accept the facade and the "noble lie" nothing is going to change until the bottom falls out and it comes crashing down on us.

Superskunk,

Yes, you stink like SKUNK.

I was involved, with Operation Cyclone and most of what I posted from Firsthand Experience.

So SUCK it with your nonparticipant no firsthand experience lips.

Half of the value of what is being cut from the military could be reinvested in construction, teachers, police and fire departments and more than make up for the loss in jobs.

It's all about priorities: do you want reduced crime, an educated populace and safe infrastructure, or do you want not 37% but 40% of the world's total military expenditure?

The same with the Post office. Cutting 120,000 jobs and closing about 3000 centers. That's going to have an impact but hey -- that's what the Republicans wanted right? they got it. No more spending, just cuts cuts cuts.

It doesn't make sense to spend more, get less, go broke, so you think cutting postal jobs and centers are bad? Why do we need Sat delivery? Everything is internet and direct deposit. We don't need the pony express everyday. All they deliver is a bunch of junk mail to shred anyway.

Oh so defense related jobs paid by taxpayers are GOOD and infrastructure jobs paid for by the taxpayers are BAD? It's the rightwingnuts running around trying to cut on less than 10% of the budget while defenses and senior welfare gets boosts that are the roblem here...uh huh

@EngEsq:Or we could just not borrow that money from China and avoid taking on even more debt...

I'd rather use the money for education, public works, and infrastructure than military.

@Armyguy, I think we need to make a number of cuts, reallocate some of those cuts, and pay down debt with the rest. We also need to raise taxes on capital gains and eliminate loopholes/revamp the tax code.

If we can get close to a balanced budget right now, then when the economy turns we should be able to start paying down our debts in earnest.

They need to be kicked off the government's teat at some point. Why wait? The over bloated defense budget needs to be cut by a whole lots more than what is being proposed now if we are ever going to get the deficit under control.

@SallyinChicago

You are mixing apples and oranges.

The Post Office is not taxpayer supported and it's job cuts have nothing to do with the federal budget and tax cuts.

The Post Office operates off of its income. More than anything, it is a victim of the switch to electronic communication (email and advertising) as well as UPS and Fed-X. It's called competition.

@SallyinChicago: So lets just keep spending unnecessary money for the military, just for the sake of keeping people in a unnecessary job, typical Libtard way of thinking.

Actually, why don't you ask the Military people about closing some of the 700+ military bases overseas first before they close any in the US?

What about all those troops that we have in Korea, Germany, and Japan. Aren't WWII, the Korean, and the Cold war over? How many billions do we spend keeping thousands of troops there?

The problem with the Post Office is that Congress voted to require up-front 100% funding of retirement...no company in this country could do that and survive and that is what is happening to them...it will bring it down. It should be cut back to 30% like corporations and other companies fund. Then there would be no problem.

cliff-567165 - nonsensical post. Usually the far right - you - complains that the left wants less military spending. You can't have it both ways. Plus, from what I can see on this board, it is pretty common support for cutting the military budget. But, your post - typical GOP whining - on everything even when it makes no sense!

What i would like to know is where are all the MILITARY personnel getting cut going to work? And please don't tell me this will create jobs. These are spending cuts. Which means you can't spend it on creating job, education or something else. If you did, they wouldn't be spending cuts. Capice?

I love listening to all these experts. Some of you make some of the most dumb @$$ statements. If you want to cut spending, stop Obama from throwing so many parties and from going on vacation to hawaii. Have him move his mother inlaw out of the white house. Make congress take a pay cut. Make obama cut his 112 new agencies. I agree that a force reduction needs to be done. But remember that Korea, china and iran are flexing their muscles.

And for all of you who are blaming the republicans you need to remember that it is obama who is demanding the cuts. And it is the democraps who won't sit down and work out a budget.

for Debbie-913226 and the others that would pull military funding and apply it to education, infrastructure and public works --- and then who is going to protect those educational institutions and teachers and the improved infrastructure from suddenly having ownership transferred rather forcefully?

It is the men and women in uniform in all of our Armed Forces who are prepared every day to put their lives on the line to protect your local grade school, the nearby fire department, and even your smoothly flowing sewer line. Are we to screw them yet again?

We've already got a major unemployment problem here - does anyone think that suddenly closing bases and putting literally thousands or tens of thousands of both civilian and military on the street is going to help that situation? So what are they going to do? Divert the "saved money" from military expenditures into extended unemployment benefits. Sounds good to me, and changing the "color" of the money seems to be something this administration has become incredibly adept at doing.

defense is not where most the money is spent at, and id rather have a strong defense against invasion than anything else(comparing the US to other countries is a fallacy). we already give money to education, police and w/e else you would like, the problem is the HUGE amount of waste and corruption that goes with it. throwing money at problems when the problems are never addressed or fixed is the wrong idea.

the dems are the ones who dont want to cut anything, they constantly lie and fudge numbers to make themselves look good and keep us arguing. the repubs are just as bad for being weak and complacent in the whole ordeal. we have enough money to take care of all our needs but its the greed and evil of both the government and the citizen that keep us in debt.

about the post office, the government is required by the constitution to establish and fund the postal service.

Article. I. Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To...........To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

since congress has not fully funded the postal service but still regulate it they have again breached the constitution.

none of this matters, the seeds have been sowed long ago for what is happening now and in the near future. if you think the government is out to protect the united states or its citizens then you have already lost. the government is out to enslave us like every-other country in history, they only care for the power that they see. history repeats itself over and over because we are after all only animals, looks at any omnivores (especially carnivores) in nature and you see the same patterns we exhibit, only they do it in a more natural method.

Sally, you mentioned the post office cutting 120,000 jobs. The postal service is being forced at $5.5 billion a year to fund retirement accounts and health insurance for 75 years and only has 10 years to do it in. After the cuts of 120,000 postal workers, will they still be forced to pay out $5.5 billion a year? If they didn't have to fund it for 75 years, something no other government department has to do, or even private industry, the post office would actually be running in the black right now.

Someone also suggested parts of the savings from cutting bases and military personnel, not to mention support personnel, could be used to fund infrastructure, education and even retro-fitting government buildings for energy conservation, which would save money almost immediately. We don't need all these huge cuts, we need our officials to spend the tax dollars wiser.

exssg, the way you started your post had my hopes up, here is a guy who is going to tell it like it is, and then you said Obama's parties are a major budget item and exposed yourself for a complete idiot

AK Sabin

Yep...all you lefties that whine and moan about military spending don't stop to think anout the impact on local economies at all. Watch out jobless claims, your numbers are about to go through the roof.

========

It's not just lefties that complain about it, ever hear of Ron Paul? The so called "conservatives" in this country who patriotically support more military spending are those who, just by coincidence, live in states with huge defense industries, like SC.

Worried about jobs, then use the money for infrastructure here in this country and get something in return for our tax dollar, you got a problem with that?

Yeah, that will save a lot of money, moving Mrs Obama's mother out of the Whitehouse. I suppose you would have the first lady stop doing her work too so they wouldn't have to hire a nanny. Hey, they could turn the heat down to 50 and turn off all but one CFL in every room being used. Better yet, they could move into and use only one room in the mansion. Better yet, close the whole place up and bring in a mobile home, a FEMA trailer for them to live in. exssg, you sir, are an idiot.

John McCain saying the plan ignores history is ludicrous. If the aging senator really understood history, he would not be doomed to repeating it so often...foreign invasions do not work...the locals do not like us, or any other foreigners, in their country...not Viet Nam, not Iraq, not Afghanistan (for the Russians or us), not anywhere...just stop using war as a foreign relations tool...it does not work, period . And please follow Jon Kyl, another dinosaur, into retirement.

I'm so sick and tired hearing about SS and Medicare being a "entitlement"! When you have worked over 45 years paying into a "Required" SS acct and pay monthly prems for Medicare and have to pay additional insurance prem, this is NOT an entitlement!! We paid into it, it is our money that has been mandated. When the GOP complains about how it should be cut or eliminated they should have ALL their gov. pension, insurance eliminate as well. They complain about citizens out of work because of jobs outsourced by the GOP corporate interest [super pacs] are too lazy!! Just exactly how many hours of actual legislation, minus the lobbyist hours do they really work? How much are they paid including benefits for actual real time work? That is where the budget needs to be cut- severe! What did our entire congress actually accomplish the last three years other than to try and make President Obama a one term president? I'm sick of how politicians think they are above the law and reforms. Not one of the nominee's up for election are running on their own money. It all come from the "unknown sources" for lobbying corporations to implement their private agenda. Our government is for the people by the people as stated in our Constitution. Now because of the past yrs of Bush and the do nothing 2010 GOP elected, our military personal, school teachers, firemen, the elderly, ill, poor and unemployed are the ones who have to sacrifice! We need to overturn the Supreme Court Citizens United NOW!!! Do I really think that will ever happen? No. Our elected official are making too much money off it. Instead citizens are the only ones who have to tighten our belts or die because of no health insurance, starve while the US feed other countries. I ask anyone to explain how our country arrived at this deteriorated state.

D Russ-3965159, 2kmaro, Pobrito

Finally, some words of wisdom.

Hey all you "Followers" (faces up someone's arse) with programmed Attention Deficit Disorder (one liner Twits). Go read post#1.57.

Rick-546746,

Go read post #1.57 then lets talk about US Infrastructure. And if you want to talk about other than US Army Corps of Engineer Infrastructure US Jobs, lets talk about the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US that have moved into taking over all the US Labor Union Construction jobs (and do NOT give me that bullsh!t about "making a better life for themselves at the US" as they are sending that money "Home" (money laundrying).

Swagganaut,

You too, go read post#1.57.

And the USPS was "Privatized" years ago. You sound just like uninformed uneducated Lawyer (trained Liar) EngEsq living at not so Great Britain that cannot even get it's own house in order before sticking it's nose up the US butt.

AK Sabin,

Like I stated at post#1.57, Repeat the Same Mistakes and Expect Different Result.

Of course most of these uninformed uneducated non factual posters did not live thru the Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military (reason why the US Government had to Call to Active Duty the ill trained and ill equipped State's National Guards and Reserves during the First Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. with the resulting unnecessary deaths.).

And most of these people are too young to have been around during the President Clinton Closures of 14 US Military Installations at the US, resulting in near Great Depression Era US Economies in the surrounding US Towns and Cities. Then the US Contractors, US Manufacturers, etc. left those areas of the President Clinton Closed 14 US Military Installations (less Local, City, State Revenues (Taxes) Collected to fund Schools, Teachers, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, etc., resulting in the Local, City, State Govenments increasing Taxes to make up the Budget Shortfalls.). Just like EngEsq living at not so Great Britain, doesn't know sh!t from shineola.

Debbie-913226 - I'd rather use the money for education, public works, and infrastructure than military.

Shows just how uneducated, uninformed you are go read post#1.57 about Infrastructure (and comment above about Illegal Aliens and US Construction). As far as the Failed US Education System (non Performance Based, non Internationally competitive Products, lots of excuses, etc.), sure throw more money at a failure, as the US spends the most and still produces defective products (no cognative research skills, lack of cognative reasoning skills, lack of survival skills to gain experience, etc.).

Jon-998022 - What i would like to know is where are all the MILITARY personnel getting cut going to work?

I know where the 27,000 chopped by President Obama's Reduction In Forces of the US Military are going, Unemployment. I know where the 10,000 chopped from Germany are going, Unemployment. I know where the xxx,xxx US Civilians that supported the 27,000 former US Military are going, Unemployment. As no longer justifiable to US Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee.

Number of homeless female veterans more than doubles (Sarcasm, Thank you President Obama).

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/24/10227869-number-of-homeless-female-veterans-more-than-doubles

That's just it! There are areas of this country which still haven't recovered from the last round of base closings (Oscoda, MI is just one such location). These same people have no idea (and I wonder if they really are capable of understanding) that the reason we have had to use companies like Halliburton is because our military is so undermanned. Add to this that the military is actually mandated by the Constitution of the United States and I wonder that they can even call themselves 'patriots' (as they believe themselves to be). I would call them cowards, myself - just as we called the French during WWI and WWII.

What I would like to see before they consider any more cuts to the military are cuts to entitlements (which are outside of the mandates of the Constitution) and cutting waste and fraud. But then, they couldn't feel good about themselves by spending hard-working taxpayers' money, could they?

do you have any idea how many "cowardly" french died in the world wars, how many Germans did you kill Tammy

So tell me one more time, government doesn't create jobs, right?

The constitution only calls for a standing navy and I believe a coast guard, but I could be wrong about the coast guard. I know the coast guard is a bit older though. It calls for a well regulated militia to protect the United States from enemies, foreign and domestic. That is all the military the constitution calls for.

Isack, as a twenty-two year Army retiree, I agree with you 101%. Apparently, those who are post on pure emotion rather than logical historical reasoning fail to grasp the significance of maintaining a military presence in key parts of the world. North Korea, where there armistice was agreed on in Panmunjom, on July 27, 1953 is still unstable as North Korea continues to saber rattle at every turn.

As per armistice agreement of 1953, the opposing sides had to "insure a complete cessation of hostilities and of all acts of armed force in Korea until a final peaceful settlement is achieved. In other words, there only exists a CEASE FIRE in Korea, not Peace. Japan: After it's defeat at the end of WWII, Japan accepted the Potsdam Declaration in 1945, and, based on Potsdam Declaration Article 9, the Imperial Japanese Army and Imperial Japanese Navy were dismantled. Both were replaced by United States Armed Forces occupation force, which assumed responsibility for the defense of Japan.

Japan is also concerned about the hostile intentions of China as well as the Soviet Union which has it's eye on Japan's second largest island of Hokkaido. Germany, another country that precipitated the US's intervention as a result of it's hostile aggression on other peaceful countries engaged in trade with the US which threatened US security, was partitioned into four sectors by the allies at the end of the second world war. The history is too extensive to go into but anyone can Google this information for further elaboration for themselves.

In short, the security of the United States hinges on, or is directly contingent on, maintaining a presence in that part of the world partly to discourage aggressive Soviet territorial notions and to also ensure Germany never again rearms to the extent of implementing hostilities on the scale of WWII.

There are other parts of the world (CAN YOU SAY MIDEAST) where US interest may be are threatened but too numerous to go into. Suffice it to say, the military is a very, very, VERY necessary evil as you will , to protect and safeguard this country from crazed jihadist ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. It is NOT just for ceremonial purposes as many whom never served seem to believe.

ceremonial purposes, not how I describe Empire

1960-1975: try making $150-$200 a month which included so-called hazardous duty pay in Vietnam. THEY even hated us in the U.S. back in the day. Unions and businesses hated us because we didn't make the amount of money they did - had nothing to do with the war.

A private company to ensure NATIONAL SECURITY ?

• What country would ever use a mercenary who is only loyal to the might dollar ?

Cuts is what REPUBLICAN-OBSTRUCTIONISTS WANTED, isn't ? Take a shower of your vain glory.

Why are you whinning if you seated them on power ?

this is for Sally in Chicago. i completely agree with you! my husband is in the USAF and i am really worried about some of our friends coming back from overseas and our country being hit by a wave of unemployed soldiers! do they not understand what the backlash will be to cutting this many active duty servicemen and women????? its mind boggeling to me. my husband's job is secure right now but i am worried about our men and women coming home and having nothing but bills and an unemployment check to greet them!! how will that effect the deficit!! there are numerous other areas that we can attack to help cut back on needless spending. why begin with such a radical attack on the men and women who protect this country that was once great..... will we ever be great again if this is how we decide to go about it?

WSA wife: So now the US military is primarily a jobs program?? We are to pretend we are not in the age of the drone, the strategic strike--what kind of argument is that to make for "greatness". Absurd. you do your side no good to talk about such modest cuts in our largest expenditure, the largest by far in the entire world, in such ridiculous terms.

your darn right my husband has a "job". is the military not a job to my husband? its the "job" that he takes so seriously. its more than just a "job" to him but i was referring to the way our government is looking at it. they are looking at it as "jobs" are they not? "jobs" to cut and hack and slash until we have so many men and women standing in unemployment lines because they were cut and no one is hiring!!! i support my country and the men and women fighting for it. that isnt absurd sir. that is just how it is. and why is it our largest expenditure??? did you not read the article? we upped the DoD spending after what catastrophic thing happened to our country? 9/11!!! so now we cut back AGAIN like we always do when making cuts. start with the military right? then what? shrug our shoulders when we get hit again.

"These same people have no idea (and I wonder if they really are capable of understanding) that the reason we have had to use companies like Halliburton is because our military is so undermanned."

Tammy you are soooooo....wrong on that. I was in the Navy for 14 years and have seen so many Navy personnel sitting around on bases NOT doing what the Navy trained them to do simply because they were replaced by civilian contractors. It was extremely difficult for many rates to make rank simply because their jobs in the Navy was done away with because of contractors. Many of my shipmates who were ACs (Air Traffic Controllers), SHs (the guys who maintain the barracks), MSs (Navy cooks), ABFs (Aircraft fuelers) and many others worked in billets other than their rate because a civilian had their job....

trinity1984,

Tammy-311614 is correct in that after the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military and Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, this created a niche for the US Contractors.

The problem with the USN was that they were still training those Rates, even after they were being replaced by the US Contractors. And unlike the typical Blame Game, it was not only Halliburton, KBR, Xe, it was/is almost 3,000 US Contractors. Many of the US Congressional Representatives demanded US Contractors (Jobs in their States, higher paid Contractors means more Local, City, State Revenues) and were not really concerned about the continued employment of Federal Workers (US Military Personnel, some States Tax Exemptions) as a Federal Government Problem. A while back while assigned (worst assignment I ever had) to US Congress as a US Military Congressional Liaison Officer, I got to see just how Dysfunctional US Congress (All Parties) really is.

The reclassification of Rates, MOS's, etc. has been going on for a while now, as well as "Blue to Green" (from USAF and USN to US Army or USMC), or they are released. The current Reduction In Forces (we knew a while ago) is resulting in QMP (Qualitative Management Program) Lists for those that are to be RIF'ed. It is too bad that many that have stains on their records but are otherwise more experienced, educated and trained will be RIF'ed, that is the stated criteria (no waivers).

For everyone on here, know what, the ONLY thing required to be funded by the constitution is the military! Not all the entitlements passed since FDR, none of them appear in The Constitution. Something else, the military is NOT for the defense of America. Any military person can tell you that. The purpose of the military forces "Is to protect and defend the constitution of The United States against all enemies foreign and domestic." But since most of you wimps never had the guts to join (Or READ The Constitution) you wouldn't know that. So if you're going to argue what the military is for, do your homework first. Oh and where did I come up with what I wrote, That is what I swore to defend when I took my oath of office. Civilians....go figure

Well stated Betlyn. Politicians, never been there, never done that, but an expert on everything. You know Harry Truman said it best " I figured I had two choices in life, be a piano player in a whore house or become a politician, if the truth were to be known there is very little difference".

Betlyn -

Well said. I remember taking the same oath when I enlisted back in the 1970s. Luckily, the military does what it needs to do - even when the misguided throws up roadblocks.

The constitution never called for an air force or a standing army. The constitution was amended many times to reflect a changing society. That is why the original constitution had in it provisions to change it and add to it. I am just curious, how many of you have even taken a civics lesson in school?

The oath we take is still to protect that Constitution, amended or not.

Well said, Betlyn!

Beth the military is NOT for the defense of America. Any military person can tell you that.

Somebody sure screwed up with WW II when Perl Harbor was attacked then. And I guess we should change the "Department of Defense" to "Department of Constitutional Protectors"

Here we go again..... Slash defense, get attacked, go to war, wreck economy, lose war, slash defense,.....

We were attacked in 2001, our military spending was more than most countries combined, and above historic non-wartime averages.

France was anually spending more year-over-year in the lead up to WWII...

You are factually incorrect on many levels.

Source: http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/eloranta.military

EngEsq - you want TR to make sense - you're going to be waiting a l....o....n....g time!

I understand TR fine. Too bad a liberal education did not teach you how to reason things out...

Even with these cuts, the military is larger than pre-911. We are going to have a smarter more responsive military. Terrorists, our biggest adversaries do not wear uniforms or stay in their prospective nations. It looks to me like a lot of the hardwear being cut is old and outdated. Old and outdated hardwear cost more to keep it oporating safely.

Tammy - It would be your education in question. Mine did just fine. As rednawt clearly explains, the cuts make total sense. My reasoning ability is not the problem. Yours however, no comment needed.

TR: get attacked? Who in Iraq attacked us. Miss that "weapons of mass destruction" thing that never seemed to materialize. A bit of hyperbole over some modest cuts in a hugely bloated budget?

@AP-1414066. When Iraq became a member state to the Chemical Weapons Convention in 2009 the CWC Director General Rogelio Pfirter stated Iraq declared "two bunkers with filled and unfilled chemical weapons munitions, some precursors, as well as five former chemical weapons production facilities". Proir to that th US military recovered and disposed of several thousand chemical munitions. It did not "materialize" into a story for the liberal media. They would have had to admit they were wrong.

Military Wife: just pray that the Republicans stop the cuts. but they're the ones who wanted a "leaner" less deficit America. It's across the board. Even the post office is cutting. I remember at one time that you could walk into any post office and get a job. Not anymore.

Well you have to face tough times when your broke - and we are. Should we just borrow more money so we can all get new ipods every year?

You can always unvolunteer yourselves from the military and strike out in a real job...I'm just saying the military is not intended to be a works and benefits program for anyone...serve your time and move on

You can always unvolunteer yourselves from the military and strike out in a real job...

How insulting. Wtf is real job? I agree that military has to be part of the cuts, but did you need to insult soldiers?

I don't think Rick was trying to insult the soldiers. He was just pointing out that the military is not supposed to be a jobs program. I don't think most politicians are trying to keep military spending high for national defense. They're trying to protect some industry in their state or district.

why not cut the salarys in BOBO staff that would save lots of $$$$ and @rick where might are all these JOBS you talk about in China

Rick546746 - that's totally insulting to those who serve or have served. What REAL job do you have? I'm sure it is not nearly as important as our military.

R257 - totally idiotic post. His staff is no larger nor paid more than his predecessors.

@DesertD: Whether Rick meant to or not, he did. As someone with over 20 years in the Army, I am curious exactly what defines a "real job" to Rick... Clearly, I did "volunteer" to take my job, but that does not make it a "volunteer" position. We have contracts. We can't just arbitrarily decide to "unvolunteer... from the military and strik out in a real job." I guess a "real job" means that you get to go home to your family every night while someone else does the dirty work in Iraq, Afghanistan, or even South Korea. I guess it could be a job where you are free to decide that you don't want to relocate every 2 to 3 years, uprooting your spouse's job continuity and losing income as a result. During our last two moves, my family has lost over $70,000 annually in income because my wife's job wouldn't transfer her. I suppose a real job would not require sacrifices like those, so Rick might be on to something. Perhaps the whole Military should just "unvolunteer" ourselves, and get some great "real jobs" like I'm sure he has. I will agree completely with lib50, the Military/Defense budget needs to be cut. Times are lean, and EVERY American must be willing to do something about it, rather than just sit back and expect someone else to do it for them. Once they're done hacking away at the Military budget though... All of the President's precious social programs, and hugely increased foreign aid should be next. We've got problems. Let's fix our own back yard first.

Every country with a weak military is asking for trouble!! Guess we'll all have to buy guns now! You don't see Britian cutting back their military. If you ask me......let's start at the top and cut their "over the top" SALARIES!!! Seems to me they are giving themselves "golden umbrellas" at our expense, the tax payers. Seems to me our President is going to bankrupt our country and have us "exposed" to our enemies, and there are alot of them around the world. May God have mercy on THE USA!!

I ask again, how may of you even took civics while you were in school? The president can not possibly personally bankrupt ANYTHING because by definition of the constitution all you overly educated people like to cite says only congress can spend money. Only congress can set tax policy. the president can only unilaterally go to war in times of great emergency, then congress must either declare war and fund it or de-fund it and stop it. It is congress not doing their job. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Senate Majority leader, when are you going to do what you were hired to do?

I am so sick of the "Sally in Chicago's" and their uneducated typical bull@!$%# responses. She talks about the T's and the Republicans wanting this. No, we want the liberal Democrats to turn in their credit cards. It is the same crap every time. "Sally" it was your Democrats that killed the military before WWII so they could fund all the social welfare programs they wanted. It was so bad, and it will be again because the democrats and liberals hate the military (at least that is what the big eared King said) it was so bad that when WWII broke out our military was training with broomsticks because the Democrats had cut military budgets so badly there were no weapons. There are a half dozen countries around the world right now that are sitting and just waiting for us to do something this stupid, and they will be here with bells on. Obama and his "legions" have weakened our image so badly worldwide that even countries like Iran are considering attacks on us. Are you kidding me? Why is that? I only hope that when the big one gets here I have enough time to take a big bunch of liberals and Democrats and round them up to put in front of the rest of us as breastworks. You know, a little cannon fodder so to speak? Why don't they cut social security to "undocumented" aliens, or something instead of the military?

Remember our current president was a member of congress as well, when will he take a little responseabilty

rednawt

"Mr. Speaker, Mr. Senate Majority leader, when are you going to do what you were hired to do?"

This is an excellent question. I don't believe, however, that these individuals remember that they work for the American public. I don't think any of them, either party, remember who hired them. They only remember who funds them.

Way to much BS in your comment to address it all, but just one example. Hate to rain on your non fact fillled parade, but "undocumented" aliens" do not recieve social security. However, many of them do pay it.

navyson: where is your evidence that such modest cuts make our military "weak"?? That's preposterous. Have you seen the size of the defense budget?

That would be a good idea, and then have members of Congress man the pillboxes!

yes we need then remember sept 11th? keep cutting and we will get reduced to rubble here in the us

I don't remember our military doing us any good on 9/11/01. Anyone? Anyone?

Wow, nice Agnomad74. Make you feel big to say that?

Military infrastucture is a high cost. There needs to be another round of BRAC, consolidate facilities. It has started somewhat but needs to go further. Combine Gaurd and reserve locations with active duty. Yes funding is from different sources, state/fed. But combine and share the cost.

Media (and some commenters here) keep saying how expensive it is for our bases overseas. What's not being mentioned is that those countries foot a big chunk of that bill. Not only in subsidies for construction and maintenance but for utility costs and pay for local civilian workers.

Agnomad where the hell you been the past few years while we sought out these idiots?

Spot on!!! Your message needs to be repeated over and over again until people realize we can't afford to be the world's policemen any longer.

We need to pull spending in and increase funding in pretty much equal measures. It can't happen overnight, but what about this, do the cuts called for in the law as a start, and on top of that direct every department and agency to find 1 to 2% savings every year. Through conservation, attrition and technology, I doubt that would be too hard to do. And yes, even all three branches of government, congress, the executive and the courts even if it means cuts in salaries (just make sure those cuts start at the top, even the president's,vice president's, the speaker's and senate leader's and supreme court justice's).

Bad things are going to happen no matter what. We are lucky there hasn't been another 9/11. You read everyday the sad things still happening in the middle east - but we can't police the world. We just adjust with the UN and other countries before we invade another country or keep an ancient military base running.

Why do Democrats think more money spent on Education equals better educated kids. There is proof that it does not happen.

Yea it is called College educated idiots.

Dan - well clearly that is the case with you. Where - other than your post - is the proof??

If we could get Engineer and Science graduates that are US citizens it would help. Unfortuately we see too many music, theater arts, and art history majors. Student loans are through the roof but graduates fail to look at a job market after graduation. Education would help our society but in research and development areas not on american idol wanna be's

THey've raised the bar for enlisted men and women, which is good. Physically they are getting better prepared. Most go in to get educational benefits after they have served, sad but true.

The enlisted army pay-rate is supposed to be maintained until 2015, then the gradual increase in benefits to veterans and servicemen will begin an increase. The cuts are mainly aimed at getting rid of out of date navy cruisers and aircraft and refocus the budget to a smaller more effective armed force.

Agreed, the WWII era of massive armies and ground forces (and even manned pilots) are becoming more and more obsolete.

trust -

Please keep up with current events - there are actually 'boots' on the ground in Libya and have been since the very beginning. Obama's also got 'boots' on the ground elsewhere in Africa,

Military force is diplomacy. It's just at the other end of the spectrum from from talks. Sanctions are a form of diplomacy. Talking is prefered. Best diplomacy after the tsunami in 2004 was the US military providing aid. We have lots of "boots on the ground" doing these types of humnitarian/diplomacy missions.

I agree, maybe they would get something else done besides make sure they're health ins is the best and take breaks while so many are out of work.

GTR5 - I think the biggest cuts should be with the GOP in both the House and the Senate!

seeking -

When did Reid become republican? He is, after all, the biggest roadblock in Congress to getting anything done. How many bills from the House has he allowed to come to the floor of the Senate for debate?

It is impossible to seek compromise when there is no discussion allowed.

I can see why you're seeking 'sanity'. Perhaps a professional can help you.

Tammy - Boehner is the biggest roadblock to getting anything done and he professed he and his cohorts would be the minute Obama was elected. Too bad you continue to wear blinder and have no use for the truth but I expect no better from you.

You know what, they are all useless and I say get rid of all of 'em! There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. Why can't people see that, instead of defending "their" party all the time? Take your blinders off and see our Congress cares nothing for anyone save themselves!

The American people have the power. Sadly, they just don't have the will. Too busy arguing about how wrong the "other side" is, and Congress laughs away behind closed doors, knowing they have us all snowed.

I agree with jmsuss. Don't vote for a single incumbant until things are fixed. We elected them to represent all of us not their special interests.

Mr. Obama has no experience in the military and apparently no understanding of or sensitivity to its charters, beliefs, and obligations.

And yet, as a military commander, he has been more effective than any in the last few decades. This guy knows how to isolate and kill his enemies without risking many American lives (and on the cheap).

No - not reallly. He has Generals and advisors - "isolate and kill his enemies". I'm still waiting to hear the plan for exiting Afghan like he promised when he was elected. I want to his "change" from spending his a$$ off and just borrowing from China so we can owe them forever. HE's just going to run again and needs to look better than he has been.

Please dont forget that the President is only making these cuts because teh GOP controlled Congress controlls the purse strings. THEY are the ones forcing this to happen. Of course they could increase taxes on the wealthy, closer loop holes for corporations and find ways to raise revenues, so the cuts wouldnt have to be as drastic, but Then again NO.. Cause they are THE PARTY OF NO!

No - not reallly. He has Generals and advisors - "isolate and kill his enemies".

Most of those same advisers and generals are the same as the last administration, and yet the results have been night and day. Something has changed, and I attribute it to a fundamental philosophical shift originating from the top.

I'm still waiting to hear the plan for exiting Afghan like he promised when he was elected.

Same here. I'm so pissed he didn't use the killing of Osama as a rational for bringing all our troops home. I hate that we are still over there.

If he is re-elected I hope he has learned from these mistakes. There has been no change for this country and we have to stop spending everywhere!!!

Disappointed - nothing could be farther from the truth. We are overspending on the military budget. We have been for years. We can still have a very strong military and cut the budget.

Jane Fonda is a TRAITOR to the American people!!!

That is why she was called 'Hanoi Jane' during Vietnam. She should have been tried for treason, convicted, and sentenced to death. Yet Obama wants to give her an award? Seems to me that he should be tried for treason as well.

Jane Fonda is a TRAITOR to the American people!!!

So was Ronald Reagan, what is your point?

Tammy - if you would not read all the stupid far right propaganda you would know the "Obama wants to give Jane Fonda an Award" has been debunked over and over. Actually the award to Jane Fonda lie was started in 1999 - yet you and ridiculous far right wingers continue to report the lie. Why is that?

Little Miss priss went into the MIA POW camps where US Military were prisoners standing mostly emaciated...she walked by one who handed her a small piece of paper with his Social Security # so his family would know: she turned him in and he was beat to death...

HELL awaits you --you unconscionable witch!

SeekingSanity

" -yet you and ridiculous far right wingers continue to report the lie (as truth). Why is that?"

She's just using proven Rovian techniques courtesy of Vladimir Lenin

"A lie told often enough becomes truth."

Yep. Drones do it cheaper, without endangering American pilots who cost multiple millions to train for a service life of about a decade.

Tony, not a good idea. Posse Comitatus is the law that doesn't allow government officials to use the US military to enforce domestic law. Although borders cross many states and localities it would generate a bad precedent to use the military to enforce laws that the federal government has no desire to enforce. If we were to put our military in charge of domestic law enforcement then all the power within the government would belong to the military leadership who would obviously control our weapons. Just another small step and we could lead to a dictatorship.

Our military are mostly young people serving their country, learning work skills, and increasing their education. Most don't remain in the military more than two tours. It is kind of a jobs program. Now when your son or daughter are looking for some structure, purpose, and a job to get a step up where will they go?

Nice Libertarian delusions, except for cutting the military.

With these cuts we will still spend more than the next 10 biggest militarys in the world combined over the next 10 years of these cuts. We are still investing in new technology and training troops (with real world experience as we continue to use military intervention as one of our most potent foreign policy tools.) Will we be able to maintain current levels? No, We however are not doing as you indicate post WWII, Korea, and Vietnam and completely dismantling the military. We will be OK.

My preference would be to reduce overall numbers, but with the remaining military: raise wages of military personal, increase their training, and close bases overseas and reopen base in the USA. Spend the newly limited military budget supporting our local communities.

Ron> The answer to your question is "of course not". Are you kidding? That would take all the fun out of it for them.

Or charge them for the operating costs plus some marginal fee. Make it a cash flow positive endeavor.

No kidding. Hey, Germany! Remember the Marshall Airlift? Well, here's the bill, adjusted to today's dollar and with 60 years of 29% interest thrown in . . .

They already foot part of the bill for those bases.

Refused to budge... on what?

outdoorsman-

you, sir, are an idiot. the cut to military spending is in lew of ending the tax rate slashes for the richest of the rich. get a grip and quit spewing nonesense please. you uninformed individuals will spell the end of our country.

The Democrats refused to budge? what congress have you been watching? I agree you are an Idiot,

Most like the idiot Sally in Chicago don't have a clue how it works. The Republicans and the Tea Party never asked not approved of any cuts to the military. This is a typical Dumbocrat ploy before election. This all happened because of the lunatic in the white house who now realizes that raising the taxes on the rich won't pay for his health care package. In fact they could take all of the money from the rich, himself included, and you still could not balance the budget. What you are going to have is unemployment at a massive rate when you dump 80,000 troops on the streets with no jobs. Jobs that the government said are coming back, when in fact they aren't. What do you think is going to happen with that massive unemployment, and troops that are out of work and can't feed their familys or find work in the civil sector but were trained by the US Government to do one thing and do it very, well?

The dumbocrats have dug themselves a very big hole and now they can't find a way out...

Most like the idiot Sally in Chicago don't have a clue how it works. The Republicans and the Tea Party never asked nor approved of any cuts to the military. This is a typical Dumbocrat ploy before election. This all happened because of the lunatic in the white house who now realizes that raising the taxes on the rich won't pay for his health care package. In fact they could take all of the money from the rich, himself included, and you still could not balance the budget. What you are going to have is unemployment at a massive rate when you dump 80,000 troops on the streets with no jobs. Jobs that the government said are coming back, when in fact they aren't. What do you think is going to happen with that massive unemployment, and troops that are out of work and can't feed their familys or find work in the civil sector but were trained by the US Government to do one thing and do it very, well?

The dumbocrats have dug themselves a very big hole and now they can't find a way out...

This all happened because of the lunatic in the white house who now realizes that raising the taxes on the rich won't pay for his health care package.

We wouldn't pay for King George's health care plan either. I am not a reflubican I am a demoncrat, and I say Obama's health care just plain sucks. We are all now going to be forced to provide free health care for all illegals, and Muslims as they are exempt from having to buy health insurance.

But the real burden of todays poor economics rests squarely on the shoulders of King George. It took him exactly 6 months to shove our balanced budget into the mud. When he took office, the books were clear!! Domestic programs were still in force and operable. It took a demoncrat to clean up after Bush senior and his 1000 points of lights, and then came another Bush and he really screwed up the check book. I do agree that Obama has done damned little to ease the burden of the jobless, but then he had to step into a full cess pool when he took office.

You're either in favor of budget cuts or you're not. Everybody will be impacted. It doesn't matter which department has layoffs, the unemployment rate will increase. There is no good reason for us to be spending so much money on overseas bases. Shut them down and bring the troops home. At least spend the money here instead of there.

Let's examine the third and fourth order effects here (focusing just on the domestic consequences for now): for one the standards for entry into service will go up (already have in the Officer selection programs of each respective branch), which means the quality of service men and women will go up. That's a positive. The downside is, apart from the thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, that will be released, you will also have to release those civilians who have support contracts with the military (the guys who make the planes, the ships, the tanks, sell the food that feeds the troops, etc.) If there is no one to fly the bird then there is no need for the bird. My issue is: what is the plan for these people? The job market is already scarce enough as it is, and there is not a huge civilian market for folks who spent the last eleven years fighting a war. If there is a viable solution then I am less skeptical but I don't think that the answer to one problem is exacerbating another.

sorry... it BECAUSE of extending tax rate slashes to the rich... this is something the republican'ts insisted we do; they wouldn't budge on it. at least your selective memory hasn't failed you, even if your brain has.

you people are insane. how can you write the crap that you do? we had/have options: increase revenues or decrease spending. period! you insisted we leave trillions in temporary tax cuts for the ultra rich in place and strip old people of their limited income, strip the military, strip infrastructure spending, etc etc etc. how dare you blame this on the dems! your disastrous regurgitation of the fox spews bs spins are disturbing! did you not catch the effing headlines yesterday? effing repub earned $40 million and payed LESS THAN 14% IN TAXES! WTF?! This is someone who already has enough money that he doesn't even have to work for a living. and you want to let him off the hook with under 14%. understand? grow a freakin brain folks, before you die. please do it. do it now!

Black Knight, so what is it? You righties hate a bloated government, thus want to slash many government jobs, yet accuse the government for not being patriotic enough because there are not enough government jobs for returning soldiers...Maybe if we actually used our military personnel in jobs that they were trained for, instead of hiring a civilian contractor who gave a big contribution to his favorite Republican instead, we'd save some money....