the U.S. tax system is already highly progressive

Your cherry picking your statistics. The tax system is now regressive even though the tax rates appear progressive. Try comparing the wealthiest 1% to the middle class and include deductions plus property, sales, SS, and medicare taxes.

The reason they are paying a lot is because they are making a lot. The reason some people aren't paying is because they have NO income to tax.

There is a difference between envy and being starved to death by unequal pay for equal work.

Or those making all the money using slave labor from other countries so they can keep more.

The percentage of what they pay is where the argument begins. It's not that anyone want's them to make less exactly. We just want them to pay the same percentage of what their income is.

You cannot get income tax if there is no income to tax, but those making record highs and paying less of a percentage than those that are struggling is wrong.

People need an opportunity to make money. The tax breaks the rich have been getting haven't made new jobs. That is a fact.

Wakehead how are facts cherry picking? The top 1% pay 38%of all federal income taxes! Now you may not like the facts as they do not fit an agenda or ideology but yes they are still the facts. Deborah S. I do agree with you about pay,but how would increasing anyones taxes increase your pay? Do you think that if your employers tax burden is increased then he will say "by golly I think I will give Deborah a raise''......or..''Sorry Deborah I will have to lay you off'' tell me Deborah S.?

More Bull Police Riots – Police Gone Mad – Where is The Bill Of Rights?????

Who cares that the bottom half don't pay the middle class pays ans pays not that elite of the 99% we are paying so the fat rich butts that sit on their collective lazy assess while strangling the middle class we pay on average 35% federal and 10 State these lazy rich elite pay 15% as Romney and Gingrich pays himself a giant fat salary and payment in deferred income and it looks like he pays 30% but come on these greedy bastards are trying to buy America with the help of their foreign fiends what a fraud and a sleazy corrupt government this has become: Romney tripling the size of his mansion to 14,000 square feet and Gingrich paid 1.6 million from Freddie and Fannie alone for being a historian and has the gall to look the camera in the eye and not break into the fit of laughter I do every time I see that film clip - a historian paid 1.6 million dollars for not for what?

The middle class has had enough time to fight back and save OUR country - long live OWS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fX3SbHDTkk

Read the truth the accepted facts gathered from our respected fact gathering entities this is why we march and peacefully seek law and order and an end to the massive corruption that controls America.

Enough death for the luxuriant life style of the top 1% and their lap dogs our politicians the middle class has to fight now as never before just follow the short video and the same larceny is business as usual of all western nations, none worst then the good ole USofA. When it comes to wealth inequality no civilized country comes close to this cesspool of a society lol what larceny on such a grand scale our founders would not believe what this country has become - is is not representative democracy - united citizens Ahahahahahahaha united against their own interests how did they dream this up?

The poor 1% will not trickle down on the other 9% so make the middle class pay more put the debt on those least able to pay that is the way to go and fill them with fear that the rich will leave and take all the money and means of production oh yeah that always works, our taxpayer money, with them: Oh dear me. The sky will fall as fat Limbaugh takes his Billion plus to the Caymen Islands as Mitt and company. lol

PS: #1.4 - I meant to say the 1% will not stop trickling down on the 99% they love it, to trickle down on YOU. Yes must feel nice to trickle down on so many, real fun that must me.

You are misrepresenting your numbers. Yes, 49% don't "pay" taxes(this can be argued through sales tax, property tax etc), but of the 3% that do "pay" taxes are paying well more than the 15% that the Romneys of the world are paying. he paid 6.1 million on earnings of 42 million, when instead he should probably be paying 10-12 million to pay his fair share. BTW where are the new jobs his millions have created?

Brian-2078541 who are you to determine what is fair? The man paid 6.2 million in taxes. Nowhere did I say anything about 49% not paying taxes? Income tax pal? So you are the one misrepresenting,my facts are not disputable the rich are carrying the USA and if not for the rich paying so much many would be in even worse shape, so yes you Brian-2078541

The Top 10 Percent of Income Earners Paid 71 Percent of Federal ...

www.heritage.org/.../top10-per... - Estados Unidos - Isalin ang pahinang ito
... is already highly progressive. The top 1 percent of income earners paid 38 percent of all federal income taxes in 2008, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Forty-nine percent of U.S. households paid no federal income tax at

should be very thankful to people like Mitt Romney. Thanks again Mitt!

@LiFe&LiBeRtY.defender - I own my business. I am not asking them to raise my pay. I am saying the excuses of why the rich shouldn't pay the same percentage is a bogus excuse.

As stated before the rich pay more because they make more. But they are not actually paying the same percentage. They have lots of write offs that make them pay a lot less percentage wise than most Americans. What would be fair is if there were no write-offs for rich or poor. That a percentage of what they make in income, which should include capital gains, should be the same for all. YES, I said all.

Now, those making no income will still be paying no taxes. Some who pay thousands now will probably pay less if the percentage is equal across the board of American citizens. But I do believe a lot of rich people would end up paying a lot more. I think it's fair to pay the same percentage, don't you?

Again, The RICH Pay MORE because they MAKE MORE!!! That is fair.

Brian...

Mr. Romney's "fair share" is exactly what the United States tax code says it is and he paid his taxes according to the laws set forth by this nation's government. Why is that such a horrid crime to some of you ? Was the man supposed to send in more money to a money-wasting federal government just to make you happy ? And who elected you to be the determining agent on how much tax anyone "should probably be paying" ???

I say...thanks for the six million...hope you remain successful and make even more money & pay more taxes.

What kind of a nation have we turned into when someone being very successful at what one does is now a 'negative' ???

Deborah S.''What would be fair is if there were no write-offs for rich or poor.'' Yes I agree a flat tax or fair tax or national sales tax and eliminate the IRS{big smile} Now Deborah since you are a business owner I am sure the wages you pay are very good? What can be done about boosting wages?

Rich, poor, black, white, old, young, occupiers, tea partyer , 99% , 1%, Democrats, Republicans, independents, etc. etc. No one can accurately account how much they pay in all taxes. Thats the problem!

No YOU look... anyone can play ridiculous games with statistics to make a point. Allow me to demonstrate. If indeed the Top 5 % pays 40% the taxes but actually controls 60% of the wealth, is THAT paying their fair share in a progressive system? NO. So now we've both made over-the-top points, using statistics. You see how that works, partner?

I make in a year about as much as Romney makes in a day, and I still pay a higher % in taxes.

I'd like to know how that's fair and/or "progressive".

(He paid 13.9%. I paid ~15.8% this year.)

ok...great so the US tax code says that Romney can pay the 15%, but that same tax code also says that 49% of the population can adjust their taxes so they pay nothing. So therefore the argument, that 49% of the people are not paying their fair share is null and void.

@LiFe&LiBeRtY.defender - Are you wanting me to help you make money or just being sarcastic?

I stated that to be FAIR. Wages should be equal for work done. Meaning that if you get paid x dollars per hour for the same job as someone else...they should get the same x dollars per hour.

If people make more money, they should pay more money. Their businesses use the same roads, same water, same utilities, but others don't get the same write-offs.

Just because I own a business doesn't mean I am rich or poor. You assume too much and act way too sarcastic to actually have a point.

Excellent point, Brian!

Ruken Mitt Romney paid what the law required $6.2 million a lot of cheese in anyones book. Now do you think anyone should pay more than what the law requires? I personally agree with Ron Paul that federal income tax should be eliminated.

U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 ...

www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/151.html - Isalin ang pahinang ito
9 Sep 2011 – U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 (Nominal and Inflation-Adjusted Brackets). To zoom in, print, select text or search ..............We didn't even have an income tax before 1913 ahhhh the good old days! And yes the USA thrived.

Deborah S.'' being starved to death by unequal pay for equal work.'' I am not being sarcastic,perhaps you took it wrong? I agree with your point here about pay and i would like to know how you think this could be adressed as I have no idea?

Ruken Mitt Romney paid what the law required $6.2 million a lot of cheese in anyones book.

Exactly my point. It's wrong. The system needs to be progressive, not placing the highest % on the middle class.

You want the income tax eliminated? How would we fund defense, social security, highways, etc.

Of course that doesn't matter anyway. It'll never happen.

Ron Paul:“I want to abolish the income tax, but I don’t want to replace it with anything. About 45 percent of all federal revenue comes from the personal income tax. That means that about 55 percent — over half of all revenue — comes from other sources, like excise taxes, fees, and corporate taxes.

We could eliminate the income tax, replace it with nothing, and still fund the same level of big government we had in the late 1990s.''................. So Ruken I agree this won't happen but the point is that govt is a huge monstrosity DOMINATING OUR LIVES! RUKEN just to realize that Fed income tax could be eliminated and we could still fund the govt at a 1999 level.

So Ruken I agree this won't happen but the point is that govt is a huge monstrosity DOMINATING OUR LIVES!

Now there's a point I can agree with.

The top 1% pay 38%of all federal income taxes!

And have 80% of all the wealth.

And pay less than 0.1% of their income in Social Security and Medicare taxes.

Mitt Romney pays 13.9% of his income in federal taxes (income tax, Social Security, and Medicare combined), while the working poor pay 15.6% in Social Security and Medicare alone!

Am I supposed to feel sorry for these rich people? I'm willing to pay more in taxes when they start paying their fair share. Romney should be paying triple what he is now.

What I'm NOT willing to do is allow the government to give more handouts to rich people.

commonsense...''Am I supposed to feel sorry for these rich people?'' No Obama's plan is to demonize them to divide the country so he can sequester even more of their money to feed his bloated massive government! And as an added benefit he can try to blame them for his FAILED administration.

I think a lot of people don't know the difference between "Wealth Controlled" and "Income". Wealth controlled covers the money you already owned at the beginning of a tax year and income is what you worked for at the beginning of a year. Mitt invested his money in other businesses, so they could get started, expand, hire more employees, upgrade processes,... and he made money on his different investments, but not all of them. Anyone that has a 401K understands their investments don't always make money. Some make money while others loose money. Romney took a risk with his money, so businesses could expand and hire more people. Now you think he needs to also pay more of that so the Government can waist. Instead of taxing him more the government should be asking him how they can invest our tax dollars to start creating wealth instead of destroying it.

Does anyone know what would happen to the economy if the top 1% took their Controlled Wealth and parked it someplace it made no interest or return on investment?

The government would not even get the 15% due on capital gains then. Businesses would not be able to borrow money. The US would shut down. Unemployment would triple if not more.

Those Occupiers are pathetic "wanna-be's" who are trying to romanticize a bye gone era they missed out on; but just don't realize they can't bring it back, and shouldn't want to.

The country has moved on for the better while they want to relive the past. They look and act like dopes.

commonsense if you have to lie, at least don't make it so easy to check up on. The individual pays total ss and medicare of 7.25% which is matched by the employer.

Your constant lies belittle any truth you may print.

Shoot these idiots first and ask questions later. Eventually they'll get the hint that 98% of the 99% they claim to represent are against their goon tactics.

How did all these Faux News people get in here?

Seriously, I can't understand people who are not part of the 1%, but continue to defend them and the system that favors them. Have you all bought into the Tinkle Down economics BS?

One solution would be to tax corporations' cash reserves. Many corporations are sitting on huge amounts of cash that could benefit us all if put to work (including job creation). If they aren't going to put it to work, it should be taxed so that the people (government) can put it to work for the economy's sake and the citizens' sake. That's a real stimulus.
The problem is, corporations control far too many politicians to ever get it changed.

"Real Stimulus" ??? Been there...done that, a couple years ago. Government showed that it did not know how to "put" the taxpayers' money "to work for the economy's sake'. In my state, 2/3 of the stimulus funds went to municipal school systems.

Tony, perhaps I wasn't clear. The point is to "stimuate" the corporations into putting their cash to work in the economy, one way or another, rather than keeping it on the sidelines. I too, believe the private sector is better at it than government. They just seem to need some added incentive these days to actually do it.

Salinger,

You obviously have no idea about how to run a business. A company holds cash, so when times become lean they can continue to stay afloat and pay their employees. Of course to you that is a bad thing to do.

So you really don't like the constitution. People invest in businesses in the hopes they get a return on that investment. The investors are the ones who technically own the business and thus any money they are holding. You propose to just take money from those investors because they choose to do nothing with it! Obviously you don't have a savings account or any kind of retirement, since those are the very funds you are proposing that the government seizes.

So compinie that are keeping several years worth of operating costs is okay

and some compinies are not even sharing that money with the investors..... Like apple (with several billion in cash)

Thse so called slush funds cont to grow as these same compinies cont to layoff people

And do not forget about the golden pay packages some of these CEOs get as they drive comapnies into the ground or take goverment funds to stay afloat (BOA, Chase, ETC) and then illegal seize houses they have no docs to support they actual own the lean on the house.........

Now I can understand why you want parents to pay for kids schools if they do not pass your test in the 5th grade so people will beleive compinies are doing this all for their employees............

So compinie that are keeping several years worth of operating costs is okay

and some compinies are not even sharing that money with the investors..... Like apple (with several billion in cash)

Thse so called slush funds cont to grow as these same compinies cont to layoff people

And do not forget about the golden pay packages some of these CEOs get as they drive comapnies into the ground or take goverment funds to stay afloat (BOA, Chase, ETC) and then illegal seize houses they have no docs to support they actual own the lean on the house.........

Now I can understand why you want parents to pay for kids schools if they do not pass your test in the 5th grade so people will beleive compinies are doing this all for their employees............

dear mr life and liberty defender,

please remember that The Heritage Foundation is an American conservative think tank. they cherry pick stats just as carefully as everyone else who wants to prove their point. i'm a 99%er with three years out of a job. my husbands high tech way of the future job got shipped like everyone els in the tech industry. the only job we got during that time was from pres. obamas "failed" supplemental employment programme. we got to be employed for 9 months because of him. that speaks louder than statistics.

i agree, the common "rich" person not only pays their share, but the share of 10 to 25 other americans, let's not call them names they're doing so. and some of the ones that are not and realize the atrocity of that discrepancy have stated publicly their dismay.

it's the elitist 1% with personal political agenda that makes all the rich look bad. you know, like neocons making all republicans look bad.

so, The top 1 percent of income earners paid 38 percent of all federal income taxes in 2008, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Forty-nine percent of U.S. households paid no federal income tax at all.

well, that's true. and it's a sad state of affairs when 49% of the us is un or under employed. believe me, if i'd made enough money to tax, i would have happily done so.

sorry, hit the wrong key.

back to the real subject. oakland has been used as a stomping ground for the violent and unlawful since after WWII. ever since a splinter group of black panthers upheaved oakland decades ago. oakland seems to have a sub sign that says "piss here". i grew up in the bay area. no matter what agenda, what protest, what announcements; the violent end likes to invade oakland and tip up camp from there.

just as the 67 invasion of the State Assembly Chamber in Sacramento, guns in hand, gave the wrong impression of the panther movement, these violent splinters that use occupy (everywhere) as an excuse to their own personal agenda - which, sad to say, just may be boredom at this point...

oh! and everyone in the picture burning the flag should be ashamed, very ashamed. this is america! no matter how broken it is, it is YOUR HOME, treat it with respect.

Ripley,

While I understand your idea that you would hope all made enough money to pay taxes, one simple thing so many people forget is everytime you pull the artificially created bottom up all you end up doing is putting more people at the bottom and more people closer to the bottom.

The cruel truth about having a middle class is a poor class and a rich class must exist. The only other alternatives is a 2 wealth class system or a single wealth class system. Single wealth class systems do not truely exist. The black market, lack of motivation to work harder, and limited supply of some items all build in a multi class system. Two class systems have huge disparity between the kings and surfs with little if any hope of moving between the classes.

so you are saying the constant grow between the middle call and the rich is antrual happening.

And as the middle class disappers that is also an act of nature?

The rich of pleny of money and pay little in taxes(see current president republican cand) they do not create american jobs and do little to stop the middle class from becoming the upper lower class....

to parapharse someone famous if they have more they should give the church more so we can do gods work

Yeah, not sure whose idea it was to burn an American flag, but thats a little over the top, isn't it?

have to agree with will the idiots who tore things up and burnt the flag were pretty stupid and disrespectful and not in line with what this entire movement is supposed to be about..

though i could bet you plain clothed officers were the ones to initiate it

Since we are broke and putting them in jail would cost us money we need to send the flag burners to Iran for a couple years at which time they can apply for green card.

I hope every one of them charged with a felony. Then a conviction and some hard time. I got a long rambling letter from one of their self appointed leaders and it was hilarious.

After they get out on parole, take them down to the border and put them to pick up the trash that the illegals are dumping. We had to clean up their garbage they left, now it is time that they started to pick up garbage from other occupiers!

I wonder how proud of this movement the Soldier that served in Iraq and was injured last your in the Occupy Oakland movement would be of these people burning the flag.

What ever support they MAY have had from me, they lost it totally as a result of the burning our flag. All I saw in that picture were kids with faces covered , much like the terrorists we see with guns protesting with hate against American.

I support 100% their right to protest...peacefully. As soon as they begin breaking into buildings, destroying other people's property, burning the American flag, they lose my support 100%. There are right and wrong ways to make a point. Unfortunately, they have chosen the wrong way. The do a disservice to the other OWS people who want to do it the right way.

As a vet, I could care less if someone burns the American flag. The representation that the flag brings has long been dead, and replaced by greed and self glorification. Burn the whole damn country to the ground and start with a system that works this time.

"What do you mean, "I don't believe in God"?
I talk to him every day.
What do you mean, "I don't support your system"?
I go to court when I have to.
What do you mean, "I can't get to work on time"?
I got nothing better to do
And, what do you mean, "I don't pay my bills"?
Why do you think I'm broke? Huh?"

"What do you mean, "I hurt your feelings"?
I didn't know you had any feelings.
What do you mean, "I ain't kind"?
I'm just not your kind.
What do you mean, "I couldn't be the president of the United States of America"?
Tell me something, it's still "We the people", right?" Dave Mustaine - Megadeth - Peace Sells

pretty stupid and disrespectful and not in line with what this entire movement is supposed to be about..

The entire movement has no idea what they are about. How could they have any idea once they got inside the building when they had no idea on the steps?

The violence is wrong. The flag burning is wrong.

I believe in the overall message of the Occupy movement, but I do NOT condone violence.

I hope that group of Occupy will get their act back together and make peaceful protest their mission again.

.

Love the newsvine censorship, so much for free speech.

Trust 2112.

Love that song.

I do not agree with the burning of our country.

We have the power to change this country without violence.

Get involved in your local politics and vote everytime there is an election.

I really don't buy the arguement that our democratic process doesn't work. If it doesn't work properly is because there's not enpugh people involved in it. Vote!

When every American uses the tools that have been put in by the founding fathers you will see a positive change.

Until then it will be the same 'ol same 'ol.

By the way, the "Black Bloc" boys can go *&^% themselves along with the police that dress up as the black bloc in order to instigate violence and property damage. Both groups are fatherless children need to stop their violence.

gollie...

"Under the direct command of Fox News".

Right. George Bush isn't involved at all ???

O.K.

I see now, no uploading websites to concrete your case, no pictures and apparently no curse words.

I can deal with the no curse words, the others should be allowed.

Destruction of property, regardless of the vacancy of the building, is illegal.

Once the @!$%#tards in Occupy get that through their heads, then we'll take them seriously. Until then, I will continue to advocate locking up the dumbasses who resort to breaking the law to try and shock people into listening.

I liked how they tried to take over that vacant building and got the sh*t kicked out of them.

ya...off duty cops from Oakland had joined the group prior to the violence. Old tactic of infiltrate and initiate violence in order to give cause to swing those clubs and fire those guns...

OWS didn't start the violence, the police did.

Just like the occupier who stated that the occupiers should be armed and violently resist arrest and removal?

StiksItToEm,

I agree. I did watch ustream. The news media is expert at training sheeple.

Our free country is fading away. Someday, other countries will study Amercias distant history in books and discuss how our hatred among each other caused our demise.

Ron Paul 2012!

Bubba up your butt might help you straighten up.

Feel free to keep up your violent or illegal protesting actions. Prison inmates need lovin' too.

cbawl is right. The police and the mayor started it, of course it was going to escalate. And of course, someone like Julio Perez will pick through thousands of comments made by all types of protestors, and weed out the violent ones. Not to mention, Julio, if our forefathers didn't pick up arms, we would still be under Britain's thumb. Not that I am condoning violence, but you get your head out of your rear end, and see that in fact, a large portion of the 1% want to strictly control the country, for their gain, and their gain alone. OWS is trying to bring back REAL AMERICAN VALUES, the number one being that everyone's vote counts, not just the guys with the most money. I suggest, Julio, that if you want to continue living in an oppressive regime, where your freedoms are taken away, and your vote will not, and does not count, you move out of the the country. I hear Saudi Arabia is nice an oppressive all times of the year.

"Real America Values"...like putting a Zippo to the American flag and tearing schoolchildren's art off the walls at City Hall.

Stephass, OWS is trying to bring back REAL AMERICAN VALUES? Like costing the 99% over 5 million in Oakland alone? Like trying to occupy a building that doesn't belong to them? Like inciting violence? Like urinating and defecating on public property? They have a right to protest to the extent of the law, after that I support a hollow point to their forehead. I'm one of the TRUE 99% that is paying for this farce, and I couldn't care less what they feel entitled to.

'Bout time to lay off those funny cigarettes there, Jeff; together with the preachings of the ultra-right, they've clearly made you delusional.

@Jeffrey D Parks - If you spoke the truth people might listen.

I'll repeat what I posted later in this thread here. If you want to blame someone, you have to blame Republicans. The tax liability has all but been eliminated for many Americans because of bills they've introduced and passed in majority congresses. The Child Tax Credit was part of the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997. House Republicans: Yea 225 Nay 1. Senate Republicans: 55 Yea 0 Nay.

Then the Bush tax cuts (as much as the left rails on it) pushed the tax liability so low that many actually get a refund. Here are the laws: Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. House Republicans: 211 Yea 0 Nay. Senate Republicans: Yea 46 Nay 2. And the Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. House Republicans: Yea 224 Nay 1. Senate Republicans: 48 Yea 3 Nay.

In all the acts mentioned, there was more Democrat opposition than Republican opposition.

I'm one of those who will have no liability this year. But I also haven't taken any welfare, food stamps, government health care, or any other hand-out. That said, if I had to pay my tax liability this year, I would have to get another part-time job just to pay for it. That's the big difference between high income earners who shoulder the majority of the tax burden of the nation and middle income earners who "get a free ride." No high income earner would under any circumstances have to take another job to meet their tax obligations.

@Jeannie - You really don't know how much people on government help get do you? It's barely enough for them to get by. No one gets rich of government assistance unless they are corporations.

Jeannie, as opposed to plenty of 1%ers that don't pay taxes on earnings, because they have hidden money? How dare someone comment about people who are struggling to live need to pay more in taxes, when there are many people who have systematically hoarded millions upon millions of dollars, basically letting it rot like hoarded food, refusing to pump that money back into the economy, and refuse to pay the same tax rate as teachers, police officers, doctors, nurses, etc. You have no idea what is going on in the real world.

Steph...

And you have no idea about our federal tax codes.

Somebody violates the laws of the land...fine them or lock them up. Somebody pays their taxes as required by law...then 'thank you' for your contribution.

Amazing !!! Some Americans looking down their noses at the most successful people among us as if they had committed crimes by virtue of their hard work, brains, and success !!!

Stop confusing BS with facts.

Striksittoem,.......The only bs is the stuff coming out of you. Wealthy people use tax avoidance measures to reduce their marginal tax rate and the top 10% earners still pay 70% of the federal taxes. So a word of advice,..Striksittoem, you and your occupy buddies need to stop biting the hand that feeds you!

well your post says it all. definately a wingnut (crazy, insane, not right in the head, out of touch with reality) your taxes do not feed me (nor the top any%) i am a self sufficient person that has not ever taken a gov't handout at all even when i was in need. so how bout you and your rich buddies stop biting the hands that pay/work for you before your left with a kingdom of nothing and no one to blame but yourselves..

ty have a nice day. i will ;)

StiksItToEm, you are correct the capital gains tax is much lower, but everyone pays the same tax in that catergory, so the rich who pay capital gains tax pay what you and I pay. If you have $10,000 in capital gains you pay 5%, as an example, or $500. If a rich person has $1 million in capital gains they pay $50,000 in tax, so they don't get off paying less, they pay the same. This is equal right? Or would you have those who make more pay more? The rich who have income from royalties, salary, commissions, and other "pay" do in fact follow the tax tables and pay income tax on that money. In addition, many rich people pay other taxes you and I would not pay because we get a break in the tax laws. We may not like it, but without rich people you don't have new investment, new companies, and jobs. Yes, jobs. What, you think the government can hire everyone? Go take advantage of the government's perks yourself and go back to school, get a startup loan for small business, or a grant you don't have to pay back. Quit whining and expecting a handout and make something of yourself and maybe you will soon be whining how you pay too much taxes. Good Luck.

Strikittoem says....i am a self sufficient person that has not ever taken a gov't handout at all even when i was in need.

Your rabid ramblings are not the words of a self-sufficient person. I don't believe anything that you say. If your statement was true you would not support the occupy movement the way it is being conducted, ie,. destruction of private property, assaulting police officers, desecrating the American flag, arson, vandalism, tresspassing......

So why add gas to the fire? Raising taxes on anyone will not solve the problem but only give government more money to flush down the toilet. Both parties talk about the waste and fraud with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and is not doing the job of protecting our borders or keeping the Banks and Wall Street guys from ruining us. Focus on the problem and if they continue to write bad checks they need to be locked up just as if it was you or I.

i do not nor does the occupy movemnt support destruction of private property, assaulting police officers, desecrating the American flag, arson, vandalism. that is the work of those who think like you and know that the occupy movement will hurt thier wallets.

and maddog i would totally agree with income tax being remodeled to match capital gains tax or better yet make them just 1 tax that covers both income and investment earnings. that would be fair in my eyes. though we have to get rid of tax safe harbors for it to work properly.

our gov't is a broken system that caters to only the rich and other countries that line the richs' pockets. our ancestors came here to get away from that crap not to embrace it.

why do you people think i am living off the gov't just because i support the occupy movement. i just think that the system does not work properly for those who are not rich. and if it takes being rich to make jobs why is this country bleeding out more jobs then it is bringing in. oh thats right because all the rich move all our jobs over seas so they can pay workers 1$ a day due to lack of labor laws.

Stikittoem says .....our gov't is a broken system that caters to only the rich and other countries that line the richs' pockets. our ancestors came here to get away from that crap not to embrace it.

rightwingnut says....BS flag!

If you study history you would discover that the nation's first settlers and founding fathers came here to avoid religious persecution. Our government was set up to allow everyone their natural inalienable rights to liberty, freedom, and the right to pursue happiness. This means that you are unimpeded by anyone, except maybe yourself, from becoming someone of social, political, or economic stature.

As for the offshoring of jobs, that is the result of unmitigated free markets. Our Congressmen and president are poor negotiators when it comes to enacting trade agreements. Some combination of tarriffs, quotas, or parity for currency/job repatriation measures could help level the playing field.

"As for the offshoring of jobs, that is the result of unmitigated free markets. Our Congressmen and president are poor negotiators when it comes to enacting trade agreements. Some combination of tarriffs, quotas, or parity for currency/job repatriation measures could help level the playing field."

i think this and disliking the idiots who destroyed things and burnt the flag and got violent are the 2 things we can agree on.

we need to get rid of the free trade agreements that have destroyed the industrial and general labor work sector. where i live we had the 3 biggest petro pump makers untill these agreements were enacted. my father (a WWII Vet) lost all his benifits he worked hard his entire life to gain (and lost half his eyesight doing) and his pension was severly reduced all due to jobs being sent out of country and the company he worked for for 42 years after he got out the service went bankrupt (got aggresively bought out by an offshore company)..

stikittoem,.....

Sorry about your dad's misfortune. I visualize this and it invokes resentment. I honestly care about the predicament of American workers. Capitalism is not a perfect system but does beat the alternative of socialism/communism. The idea behind our system is permitting every citizen to have the freedom to achieve the 1%er status. In a communist country you would not have this capability, period. You are either born into an aristocrat family or you are predestined to plug away in a marginal state of existence with no ability to attain higher status.

stikitoem,....I've enjoyed our discussion and do wish you the best. I must go now. I have a 9:00 board meeting. Myself and eight other 1%ers have to discuss the 2012 outlook for the company. Later.

Remember that Obama just came back from a trip to Australia, New Zealand and South Korea, where he agreed to abolish tariffs and quotas on a wide range of their products. Consequently the companies which are making similar products in the U.S. will have to lay off workers and reduce sales.

Obama has his brains where he warms the chair in the White House!

Julio
Should you be out on a ledge somewhere. Products made in America? The products were agriculture products. Workers in America? There illegal immigrants anyway so why would you care if they lost their jobs?

The testosterone level is way to high.

The tax rates need to be reworked so it is fair to all.

Yes the rich pay more because they make more. Deal with it. Do they pay the same percentage as we do..NO. That needs to change.

Complaining that people making no money don't pay taxes is insane. They pay taxes on everything they buy. They pay taxes with their rent, utilities, & even their phone usage.

Instead of complaining, try working together to fix things.

Right now, the Republican candidates if elected to President would get us in another war as soon as they get in office. Why? Because of all the countries they have insulted during their debates and public speaking. They complain about President Obama's foreign policies, but their own mouths betray their ignorance of foreign tact and politeness.

On the homefront, they show almost a little knowledge of what is needed. Making wild promises to gain votes that won't come true after they get in office. Running a whole country is not the same as a business. It's not the same as being a part of congress. It's completely different and takes someone that can think before speaking and isn't someone who will give in every moment to some special interest group for votes.

Leaders of other countries even say the Republican candidates are not professional.

Any leader when they get in office starts out with a learning curve...that takes time to realize what works and what doesn't. We don't need to start from scratch again. We are slowly recovering and I think we should keep recovering instead of being thrown into another mess.

While I support closing federal income tax loopholes, and corporate tax loopholes, we cannot tax our way out of this financial mess. It's simply not possible. All of you people on this board screaming "tax the rich" really have no concept of the tax code, U.S. spending habits or the gross inefficiency of our government when it comes to handling money. Taxing the rich without making budget cuts and reforming social programs is akin to trying to fill a bathtub without a drain. You can keep putting more water in the tub, but without a plug you will always come up empty in time.

Sales tax goes to support state spending, not federal spending, so that shouldn't even be included in this tax discussion. Further, the 15% tax on capital gains is the same for everyone. If you changed this to tax the rich more, then you would discourage investing. If you discourage investing, you can say goodbye to innovation and, with that, the American dream.

Who is paying for Obummer's relatives who are in the U.S. illegally and why isn't Obama paying to put them on a plane back to Africa?

NEPOTISM!

Take a long look at the list of products that Obama took the tariffs off of , only 10% were agricultural. South Korea produces mostly industrialized and manufactured goods.

Look before you speak. Australia goes head to head with the U.S. in mass farming products, cattle, cattle products, sheep and other products that illegals do not get into. Only 8% of illegals are farm workers.

Make sure brain is in gear before putting mouth in action.

+100

Flag burning is what insane jihadis do in the middle east, not what responsible Americans looking to implement positive social change do.

OWS offers a safe haven for anarchists as it stands.

This problem will persist until they cleanse their own ranks.

Want to blame someone for low income Americans not paying their fair share? Blame Republicans.

Look at the Child Tax Credit. It was part of the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997. Who was in charge of congress back then? Republicans. In fact here are the votes for that act: House Republicans: Yea 225 Nay 1. Senate Republicans: 55 Yea 0 Nay.

The Bush tax cuts have also pushed the tax liability of the low income earners so low that they actually get a refund. First was the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. House Republicans: 211 Yea 0 Nay. Senate Republicans: Yea 46 Nay 2. Next up was the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. House Republicans: Yea 224 Nay 1. Senate Republicans: 48 Yea 3 Nay.

Meanwhile, no administration or congress of either party's control has made any effort to control spending. It's called Starve the Beast. It works like this: Decrease income, increase spending. After a while, the government gets into fiscal trouble (like it is now). Then, you use the crisis as a reason to make government smaller. It's been going on for 30 years. Why do you think deficits have been so high and debt has been increasing since Reagan? It was his idea.

Yeah,and those people still vote mostly dem,very confusing in'nt?

Tea1959
I see you support the explanation of Fox news and other non taxpaying organizations.

The American consumer pays federal and state taxes along with taxes locally, of 6%to8% on sales tax. Property taxes that are so complicated that they never go down.

As far as Europe is concerned. They were sold the products of American financial industry. Junk mortgages given to anyone that would show up. The wealthy didn't care about your precious county. The sellout republican president created a bailout to cover there earnings for the next two years.

I like everyone else pay taxes. I see no help for the truly poor in America. You act as if the poor are living on what they get. Then explain to me why so many people are suffering.. Your protection of the wealth is probably because you collect soom government aid and would rather see other American die before you share any of it....

The Child tax credit is bullsh*t and needs to be repealed. It just encourages people that can't afford it to breed.

Haven't heard that term in a while,but judging from the photos OPD was engaging in it.
Watch,the burning flag picture will dissapear while the pictures of the cops charging in will stay on the front page.

"There COULD NOT be class warfare, IF THERE WERE NOT ANY CLASSES TO BEGIN WITH."

That's communism broseph, and if you want communism go move to north korea or china. We are a capitalist country, where anyone can become rich. In a communist country one is born rich, and millions are born poor.

The occupy movement was good at the start, it's just progressively getting worse. And I always love how OWS cannot just admit fault.... EVER. All OWS is, are a bunch of hipsters pissed that they can't afford nice things, instead of being happy with mediocre possesion in life. Work at mcdonalds, live in a 1bdr apt. There's more to life than having nice things.

That's communism broseph, and if you want communism go move to north korea or china.

Correction: China is far more capitalist now. That's why their economy is blowing ours out of the water.

Correction: China is far more capitalist now. That's why their economy is blowing ours out of the water.

Ehhhh....they have a ton of regulations. Their peoples' mentality is also different. Most of them are indoctrinated to do whatever necessary for the good of China, as opposed to whatever is good for themselves.

How about you whiners get off your collective butts and do something for yourselves instead of setting around crying poor me. If you want more get out and earn it. Leave mine alone. I did not adopt you.

Ehhhh....they have a ton of regulations

Maybe on some industries. Manufacturing...Well - looking at their labor laws and their air quality...Yeah, not so much. But, their economy didn't really start to boom until they moved to a more capitalistic approach where failed business models weren't propped up by an inefficient government and they embraced capitalistic principals.

Their peoples' mentality is also different.

Very true.

Most of them are indoctrinated to do whatever necessary for the good of China, as opposed to whatever is good for themselves.

Coincidentally, the most prosperous times in our country were when we adopted such a mentality. WWII being a prime example.

Tired -

What do you class as a 'fair' wage?

Do you think that someone who flips burgers should be paid the same as an engineer or a physician? Do you think they should make the same wages as an electrician or a plumber? Why should an unskilled worker earn the same wages as a professional or a craftsman?

Right on Tammy.

It's a free market economy for a reason. Everyone is qualified to flip burgers, not everyone is qualified to research the next generation vaccines.

Some people aren't even qualified to flip burgers...

Some people aren't even qualified to flip burgers...

This brings up another issue. There are some people that are disabled, but there are a significant quantity of others that just don't want to work. The worst part is, we the taxpayers continue to support them.

No more I say.

I have an idea that most workers are paid exactly what they are worth. Most of them actually work about 6 hours out of an 8 hour day.

Yes, yes. It's the lower class, which outnumbers the wealthy vastly - and therefore pay a cumulative higher amount of taxes despite having barely anything to scrape by with.

That's simply not true. The top 1% are paying a vast majority of all income taxes collected. If you extend that to say the top 10%, it's well over half of all income taxes collected.

Jim Demint has the right idea,concentrate on the Senate and don't worry about the presidency.
Personally I don't think either party wants a majority.
Both sides know the problems we have are not solvable without major pain.
And if one or the other has a veto proof majority they get the blame for the pain.

Moped,

You are correct. The sheeple love initials after names (D or R). They KNOW that Obama supports Patriot, NDAA and TSA, and just signed ACTA. Next up is United Nation Agenda 21. The sad thing is, Gingrich, Santorum and Romney are on record for supporting Patriot, TSA and NDAA also.

Our only hope is to restore our Constitution, the Bill of Rights. And the only way to do that is to elect Ron Paul. But the sheeple simply won't do that.

Ron Paul 2012!

Wait until China has their "2nd Industrial revolution" . I dont thing China will tolerate the Unions the same was the U.S. did.

It kills me that the right's answer to competing with China is to become more like China. Fewer regulations, no minimum wage, let businesses do what they need to make money.