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An Occupy protester sits at the McPherson Square Occupy encampment in Washington, DC, on January 30, 2012.
Occupy protesters chanting "let us sleep so we can dream" set up a large, blue tarp with the words "tent of dreams" in the nation's capital as a noon deadline to end camping at some of the movement's last remaining large encampments passed.
The National Park Service said in a flier released Friday that it would begin enforcing regulations prohibiting camping and the use of temporary structures for camping at McPherson Square and Freedom Plaza. Individual violators may be subject to arrest and their property subject to seizure as evidence, the flier said.
Washington Post live-blogs Occupy D.C.
Justin Jacoby Smith, a 25-year-old activist with OccupyKSt and member of their media team, said the protesters at McPherson Square had plans for the deadline but noted: “We’re still sorting of keeping the specifics under wraps … we like to have surprises when we can.”
Still, by noon the blue tarp, also decorated with the words "dream together" and yellow stars and a moon, could be seen in the square via a video livestream. "This is what democracy looks like," protesters chanted.
“Today what we’re trying to do is make sure that everyone knows that when you enforce a regulation against sleeping then you can’t dream of a better world, either … when you can’t sleep, you can’t dream," he said. "We’re going to make sure that we still have the opportunity to dream and that the people in this demonstration that have no place else to go are kept safe from the criminalization of homelessness that this order effectively creates.”
Officers would be on site to monitor the situation and try to get protesters to comply, Carol Johnson, a Park Service spokeswoman, told msnbc.com on Friday. Compliance entails removing all camping materials and leaving one side of all temporary structures open.
“People can be there 24 hours a day, but they can’t live there, they can’t sleep there,” she said.
“We still do back the First Amendment, and it is their right. It is not their right to camp. And ... we would, you know, support them if they came into compliance and they had a vigil and they had tents that were there for logistical or symbolic purposes,” she added. "They can occupy as a vigil but not camping."
More than 80 arrests have occurred at the two sites, including for public urination, drunkenness, assault and drug use, she noted.
On Sunday, a protester at one of the camps -- in McPherson Square -- was Tasered and arrested following a confrontation with law enforcement, according to NBCWashington.com. A video of the incident, posted on YouTube, shows the man yelling at officers, "We all know you're coming tomorrow."
Many of the Occupy camps were closed across the country last fall and early winter, and the sites in the nation's capital were two of the bigger outfits remaining.
The Park Service noted that two "compliant" 24-hour First Amendment vigils have been running in Lafayette Park and near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial since the early 1980s. Johnson said they were "very small" vigils and also noted that they were not evicting the Occupy protesters.
But the McPherson Square camp said it was a de facto eviction: "Rather than own up to the fact that they're evicting us, the 'camping ban' allows NPS to pick us off one by one. Death by attrition," read a tweet from the OccupyKSt twitter account.
The action by the Park Service also comes after the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and Subcommittee held a hearing last week about the McPherson Square encampment.
"Late is better than never," Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., chairman of the subcommittee on the District of Columbia, said in a statement after learning of park authorities' notice. "I continue to wonder whether others who are 'camping' in national parks would have been afforded a 100-day grace period before the law was enforced."
Occupy groups across the country continue to assemble and organize protests, with about 400 demonstrators in Oakland arrested late Saturday after authorities thwarted their attempt to take over a vacant convention center for a new camp site. Some protesters broke into City Hall and smashed glass display cases and burned the U.S. and California flags, while others ran into a YMCA to evade police.
At least three officers and one protester were injured. Mayor Jean Quan said the cost to the city related to the Occupy Oakland protests is about $5 million.
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Okay, now I guess it is time for the whining about how their "rights" are being abused. When will they learn the difference between protest and camping out?
Hey man, they're just exercising their first amendment rights. Don't you know, if there's an abstract message behind what you're doing, laws don't apply!
I will say this, at least this protest is in the correct actual city.
How can we tell these people that if they vote in the next election they won't have to camp out?
Most of the things they were asking for were offered by Ralph Nader in the presidential election but they did not write him in.
Then when the Republicans won the congress 2 years ago....where were the 99% - they sure weren't at the voting booths.
These people are all talk and no action.
You will be able to tell they are lazy good-for-nothings when voter turn out is 30% in the next election.
My only concern is These occupiers, are they registered voters? If they are, then does the park have an address? If so, are they going to use this address to vote? Just curious. Are they going to vote at their "homes" and at the park?
Protest while the sun shines, then go home.
Saw the headline. Came to the first "reply" spot just to say...I CAN'T EVEN LOOK!!!!!!!!!! or think about just one more bloodied DEAD-INTELLIGENCE horse's head calling card UNLAWFULLY ALIENATING, INTIMIDATING, INFRINGING AND VIOTATING THE LAW OF THE LAND OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This Goddamn Country is BOTH, It's a Republic and it's a Democracy. SUBSTANTIAL DEFERENCE IS TO FOUNDATIONAL DEMOCRACY!!!....a.k.a....WE THE PEOPLE!!!! Not their Public Servants!
Do what you're going to do, because obviously you're going to do it anyway! Lets's hope there's a thread of Intelligence that survives to handle the RECOURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is astounding how a good message can be so utterly obliterated by it's abhorrent messengers.
Hey Mike, when will you learn the difference between camping out and homelessness ?
Anyone who's calling these people losers has a fundemental misunderstanding of what Capitalism is and how our financial system actually operates. We haven't had a Capitalist system in this country for about 30 years. Our current market isn't free. This isn't class warfare, it's an attempt at class cooperation, to get both those both politicians and Wall St. bankers who've profitted from this rigged system, not to give away their money, but to free up the opportunities we've lost, and to reform the system so that our needs align.
Let's break our system down first...
Than, we mix into this the political/legal side of things...
All of this added together means, no capital requirements, no transparency, no stoppage of manipulation/fraud. Our market has now gone from having aligned interests with the public, where banks invest in the most innovative and productive manufacturers, who are forced by the free market to higher standards, to the banks having their interests lay in dolling out as much debt to citizens as possible, regardless of the liklihood of that debt being paid back. Afterall, they're protected with tax payer money, and the Fed can always print more to cover up what's actually taking place. How do lenders not have a fiduciary duty to me, when they're making money off of my obligations/investments, and when they screw up it's again my money that bails them out???
These are complicated concepts that individually, without an advanced degree in economics, we might not all get, but what OWS does understand, what everyone can grasp, is that something is inherently WRONG. We have a whole class of political and intellectual elite in this country, pundits, think tanks, universities, politicians, who's job it is to figure this crap out for the people. It is part of the people's job to inform them that something is wrong.
They, being both Wall St and Washington, have breached this contract and killed our opportunity, now OWS is excused from the contract, ergo a movement based in civil disobedience. That's the social contract called government. Our consideration is that we work hard and obey the law, which is what the majority of citizens, including those at OWS, do. Their half of the consideration is to ensure freedom and opportunity. That is class cooperation, not class warfare.
This all boils down to those protesters believing that life is fair, when it is not and expecting others to provide for them. With all their efforts to disrupt commerce and thus hurt those already working, they could be spending time working on creating their own job for themselves and perhaps then for others as well. There is NOTHING standing in their way of embarking on their own path to prosperity.
As a business owner then they would know how heavy handed government regulations really are and their viewpoint would change a lot. It is a process.
About 1 year ago, two guys in NYC had started a breakfast/lunch wagon. The day they were interviewed they were really busy with a long line in front of their truck. They talked quickly about how they came up with their idea, why the location, but most of all this. They admitted they were devout liberals PRIOR to becoming business owners. Once they created their own commerce they saw how really difficult out government makes it for entrepreneurs due to very expensive regulations. They laughed about their political transition and how unexpected it was for them. I know many liberal democrats that once they became their own boss changed a lot.
Many of these young protesters made egregious mistakes when they chose degree programs that had a poor job history. Our government is making the same mistake by supplying endless money to potential students regardless of their choices or the ability to pay back that loan.
Back when my husband was in high school, the money he expected to be there for his college had in fact been spent by the family to start a business that failed. So at the very last minute he had to find a bank that would lend him money to go college. We literally had to travel nearly into the other state to find a bank willing. Back in the 70s, banks abstained from student loans because of the lack of visibility. I remember they put my then boyfriend through a tough interview system and finally consented. It took 8 years to pay back that loan, but we stayed on the schedule through hard times.
Now we just throw money around.
When Obama took office the avg American had a national debt of 24,000. Now that debt is 38,000. What does OWS say about this? Back in 2008, Obama said it was irresponsible and dangerous to rack up that sort of debt and expect taxpayers to get saddled with that debt. What does he say now? I know....it isn't his fault.
Spot on Steve 2570999 and if those that voted for Obama just to prove "hey look in not a racist" deserve what they get.
Murdering American citizens.
Very bad Americans in my opinion but Americans just the same, who deserve a trial as is our constitutional right.
YouTube Obama refuses to explain why he thinks he has the right to kill American?
Ben Swann, a real journalist.
Someone that the rest of Fox News and MSNBC could learn from.
I understand McCain was no choice at all but what was wrong with Kucinich?
He seems to represent what the OWS is trying to accomplish but no, those that voted would rather prove their not a racist. Vote to re-elect Obama and prove you're an -----.
Yes, vote for the guy who had no experience and was the one who voted the least on any issue when he was a senator.
I guess Obama didn't want to be tied to his record of voting so he could say I didn't vote for this or that. A man with no standards is hard to pin down on his views when he doesn't vote for anything.
Fact of the matter is, these protesters are violating the law. Doesn't matter if it's a criminal offense or just a technicality, that's all it takes. It's why organizations like the Occupy movement need to be... well... organized so they can learn their restrictions and work within the law, not against it. First amendment rights must be protected, but so must public health and safety. I'm impressed that D.C. has had the restraint to hold off as long as they have, but honestly, did any of us think it would last forever?
@ Mystery Rhee,
You know, when you admit that you only read the headline and just want to throw out your own two-bits without learning the facts, you're hurting your cause more than helping it just by appearing so ignorant.
If they vote for the puppet on the right or the puppet on the left that are both propped up by big money with their own specific interests?
The appearance of democracy is simply symbolic in our two party system in which the person on each side with the most money wins their respective party's nomination.
They don't work for their constituents nearly as much as they work to repay their campaign contributors and hope to get more big money contributors for their own political and personal aspirations by legislating for those corporations.
Congress always seems to be deadlocked over some issues, but when it comes to bills that screw over the American people for the benefit of a few, they're quite often in bipartisan agreement.
THAT'S the problem. If you vote for Mitt Romney this November, you essentially get another empty suit that's not much different than Barack Obama. All of the rhetoric that both sides use during election year is just that. Rhetoric. And until the masses understand that money in politics is the root of the problem in the U.S., then it doesn't matter which way the executive or legislative branches lean in regards to "right" and "left." They're all going to be making laws for their biggest campaign contributors and screw you and your family in the process.
Perhaps you should try to talk to one of these "lazy good-for-nothings" before you make ignorant judgment blanket statements about how they don't understand how things are currently working in the U.S., when in reality, the person in your mirror is the person without a clue.
Mystery Rhee Recourse??????? What are you suggesting?? Such an word would seem suggest action more violent than most of the occupiers, other than Oakland, have been willing to go. Nowhere has the Freedom of Speech been removed. The only thing being removed is the freedom to camp.
Adam,
There's a man by the name of Rocky Anderson who's running for president. He's started something called the Justice Party, which is based on fixing the corrupt system and getting money out of politics, which is essentially where all this inequity and corruption begins. You might want to take a look at him.
Public Servants [exceeding their mission]-Supreme Court language. [Wrongly substituting their own concept].-Supreme Court language. [Turning up the volume]-Supreme Court language, to have their unlawfully substituted Concept-of-convenience drown out that which IS Lawful and IS of the highest mitigating Law of the Land. AND THEIR CONCEPT AND INTENT AND ACTION IS UNLAWFUL, UNDUE INFLUENCE OF THE FIDUCIARY!
I didn't even realize that anyone was still doing this.
Keep up the good fight, OWS!
You are changing the narrative about wealth inequality and the horrors of Corporate Plutocracy.
Losing this battle is a mere skirmish in the war to democratize access to the access to a living wage, to which all people are entitled.
Sarah, absolutely true. How can anyone career politicians who have a vested interest... not in serving the people that elected them, but in lining their pockets. Members of both parties are equally guilty of this.
You mean socialize access? We're a free market economy. This is why people get paid sh*t to flip burgers, because a trained ape could do it.
Now if you actually are one of those that want to go to college and work hard to learn a skilled trade, there are some issues that need to be cleaned up and I support those. However, I will not advocate lazy people demanding they get a fair share when they just want to sit around all day.
These people really blew it. They had the nation's ear and at one point even had sympathy and backing. But their stubborn refusal to do ANY sort of organizing, build any kind of structure into their organization, or even clearly articulate their message doomed them to the dustbin of history. In the end, they are a bunch of anarchists run amok in the downtown parks of America, and will be remembered as nothing more. Too bad they weren't smart enough to seize what they had within their grasp.
Sotired,
I truly believe that should the SCOTUS Valeo decision be overturned, as well as Citizen's United, through a Constitutional Amendment, the rest of our problems are simple math.
Money and corporations are not speech and people, they are property, and the natural inequality that will always be present in a free market, ensures that property will never be equally distributed. How, do you say, certain rights are "inalienable" while at the same time bestowing them upon money. Doesn't that logically lead to "whoever has the most money, has the most speech, ergo say"????
Sarah-3043284
That all sounds very high minded and logical until one looks at the real underpinnings of the situation. We had a prosperous Capitalist system until as Thomas Jefferson warned "the way to destroy a Democracy is to give a man something for his vote". This high minded sounding line of wanting banks and wall street to share because is it their fault is pure baloney. No matter what kind of rhetoric it is clothed in. First came public work projects and Social Security from good old FDR. Giving people something for thier vote, of course in the case of Social Security it wasn't given but was sold as a retirement program we invested in whether we wanted to or not, since the payments were taken from any money we earned. Sounded good, help those that really need it and set ourselves up with retirement money. ONE HUGE problem, it was administered by the Federal Government.
So, the giving grew and grew and expanded what was given away and who could get money from the Social Security funds whether they had ever paid in or not. Then came more give aways for votes and began including tax refunds even if one did not pay taxes. All the way up to and including the pandering to the increased demands by trying to make sure everyone had a house whether they could pay for it or not. THIS WAS NOT either the idea of Wall Street or the BANKS, it was the idea and the legislation passed by Democrats. Giving the ultimate, they thought, payment for votes. The Community Redevelopment Act passed by Democrats, signed by President Clinton was the start. Banks resisted, they are operated on the principal of profit, so the regulations were relaxed and mortage companies sprang up to write the bad loans. With all those new "buyers" in the market, house prices soared. Investors started speculating by buying houses with crasy loans like interest only or 125% of the house value. I saw these ads and wondered what kind of dummy would borrow more than the house was worth. Answer: those too stupid to know the bubble had to burst, those hoping to ride the gravy train before the bubble burst, and those that never intended to pay anyway so why not pocket the difference and sell the house quick before the bubble burst. Then the burst when the number not paying got too big. No more construction jobs, mortage companies going broke so bought up or shut down. Some big banks stepped up and bought the failed mismanaged mortage companies, much to thier regret later. Fannie and Freddie bundled the bad mortages they were backing in the bubble with good and sold them as derivitives. These were snapped up by Wall Street and foreign investors hoping to ride the bubble to big profits. Some did but like musical chairs the last guy standing or the last group holding these bundles got shafted but good. Since the burst the trickle down effect (yes there really is such a thing) took job after job after job. What did our current administration do? Invent agency after agency to put our program after program of tax dollars to keep those that should never have gotten a mortage in the houses they did not deserve while letting the people who had dones the right thing but lost thier jobs get forclosed.
The Socialist plan blew up so did anything change? NO, now it just became a blame game aimed at taking more from those who earned it to give to the man for his vote.
GIVE IT UP, this socialist slide into oblivion got us where we are and only those who "get some thing" for thier vote are dumb enough to want to continue it and those who haven't a clue how our country REALLY works.
Government in collusion with Companies? You bet ya and its done with the tax code. Wake up, smell the roses and understand if we scrap that tax code and go to a flat tax we can save our country. If not the beat goes on and we become a third world country.
First Amendment my ass.......this is trespassing and vandalism.......and an unneeded burden on the taxpayers to babysit and clean up after this political hooligans..........
What if OWS and the hokey-pokey is really what it's all about?
"More than 80 arrests have occurred at the two sites, including for public urination, drunkenness, assault and drug use"
It's easy to see why the demonstrators identify so closely with Democrats.
The ironic thing about the 'Occupy' movement is that they don't really understand the underlying reason for their protests - the lack of jobs, which has been caused by the anti-growth, anti-business, anti-energy policies of the Obama Administration.
Obama hopes to 'tap into their anger' to help him get reelected, just like he 'tapped into the anger' of people over the housing collapse to get elected in 2008 - Another irony, because Obama was one of the lead attorneys that sued banks to force them to make loans to unqualified people (mainly minorities) - the underlying cause of the financial collapse. Of course, when the collapse hit just before the 2008 election, Obama blamed Bush, and the liberal media bought that story 'hook, line and sinker'.
Here's the real story behind the financial collapse;
http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/
Gee Sarah, since corporations are property, can you show us what one looks like? Incidentally all four of my dictionaries define corporation as "a group of people".
Shaking,
First, Fannie/Freddie didn't give mortgages or money to individual borrowers, they gave it to BANKS, privately owned banks, that than made the decision to sink that money into subprime mortgages in order to more effieciently put together CDO's.
Second, this goes way beyond our current administration. I find it hilarious that the over zealous conservatives can somehow call Obama a socialist half of the time, and the other half complain about him being in the pockets of Wall St. This started with the repeal of Glass-Stegall, which occured because of Buckley v Valeo.
Third, there is a difference between socialism...
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
and social programs. No one is advocating that the government takes your name off of the title to your house, car, or business. No one is advocating that we all become part owners in Chrysler-Fiat, GE, or Bain Capital. Social programs are used in every 1st World Country, and SCOTUS has ruled them Consitutional, due to the general welfare clause. They gave congress the plenary power to tax and spend dependant upon the needs of the citizenry, see also South Dakota v Dole and Helvering v Davis.
Sarah, you got sold a false bill of goods with OWS. Clearly you want to support change in this country, find something that works. OWS has degenerated into nothing more than a band of criminals.
Spider,
Since corporations are people, can you tell me when their life begins?
The corporation is the association, not the individual. You agree that corporations are OWNED right? How do we own people or persons???
UDunno,
Care to expand on that and support your position. I'm open to listening, but I don't take two sentence assertions over the internet as fact. If you want me to think that, explain why I should.
Noryc-2802231, #1.11
Reading Comprehension = Comprehending what you've read; Not assigning guilt: "you admit"- "without learning the facts" - "you're hurting your cause" - and "you appear to be ignorant". Did you catch part where I said, additionally, "any more"? I've got more than enough "generational" and "generality" ignorance from my young adult Children trying to alter the immediate Universe, if I happen to speak, "out of their assigned-to-me turn".
davis1159, #1.13- What I'm suggesting is not even close to what it apparently "seems" to you to be. Please don't ask me a precluding question immediately followed up by your "assigned" interpretation of what my answer "must" be, after you've precluded that, also. So sorry to see that Recourse automatically "spells" Violence.
Thanks for replying. (: "M"
That is all true. However, you have to admit that everyone in a capitalistic environment has a shot at making big money and being part of the ones that buy their say, if s/he is willing to put in the work, that's required. This opportunity is limited in socialistic countries and entirely missing in communistic ones. What most people want can be seen by the massive exodus from communistic countries (where made possible).
So, even if the system is corrupt, the US still attracts the most people, compared to other countries. If only the economy were better, less people would complain about the gap between classes.
Sarah
Great posts..like you said we do not have a capitalist system in this country there are maybe a thousand people in this country that could be called capitalists.
The rest of us work for our money.
The OWS movement has had thousands arrested protesting corporate greed and government corruption
Not one person from wall street has been arrested for destroying our economy.
OWS has had an effect on the national campaigns this voting season.
Sotired,
I totally agree with that. What I don't agree with is that we have anything remotley resembling Capitalism, or that we should have to buy our say. I don't know about you, but when I was "bestowed by my Creator with certain inalienable rights" he didn't say, "For a price, that is."
Capitalism is dependant upon the aligned interests of investors, manufacturers, laborers and innovators. If we want Capitalism back, this is what needs to be done, first...
Sarah,
Take a look at the Oakland protestor camp. They attacked Oakland city hall and tore the place up, which is a criminal act. Just a little over a month ago in Portland, OR OWS protestors blockaded access to ports, preventing a good number of those 99% they claim to represent from being able to do their blue-collar jobs. Heck, RIGHT NOW in DC (did you read the article?) OWS is illegally camping on park property. From what the Parks Dept. says they can stay there 24/7 if they want, but they cannot camp. Meanwhile assaults within OWS itself are common, use Google.
There is no coherent message coming out of OWS camps. Watch the interviews, not only of the "protestors" themselves but also of the people who are unfortunate enough to live near one of these camps, or have to travel by one of these camps on a regular basis. Google is your friend.
Like you, I initially watched with interest and hoped this would result in some kind of change, but the simple fact is it hasn't, and isn't. There's no "we" in OWS beyond the fact that they are all in the same location. There's no "movement" here, just a bunch of people upset about many things - or at least it WAS until the people with the ideals headed home and now it seems to have just boiled down to a bunch of criminals. Oakland was the nail in the coffin for me.
Sarah just cook the meat and make sure ur makeup looks pretty
UDunno,
Apparently snarkiness is yours.
I guess we would disagree on the role of civil disobedience in activist movements. These are the same reasonings given by those who wanted to stop the civil rights movement. Bus boycotts, sit-ins, marches, those too disrupted commerce and life. I guess I can live with short term disruption if it leads to long term prosperity and equality.
I find it funny that people speak of these crimes as if they are unique to OWS. You don't catch rapist or assulter (word???) by joining OWS, nor do only those who belong to OWS committ these crimes. Crimes, are crimes, and they span all ideologies. They should be punished accordingly, but not blamed on the movement as a whole, or used to generalize.
I'm not in the "1%". As long as they include me in the "99%" I will not support them or their goon tactics. HAven't you heard your fearful leader Obama? The economy is improving. Occupy a job.
Before we know it, China will be riding the capitalism wave - when they have used up their slave labor work force, that is...
Shaking my head and Roy Wilson
Excellent posts.
Banks, with the strong arm tactics of Obama and his ACORN buddies, were forced into lending money to people who they knew couldnt pay it back.
ROY WILSON-336103, #1.25- Hey:)- Long time running into you, again. I got my first "vanquishing" collapsed comment today. Doesn't prejudicially alienating and isolating targeting of one, like that, also actually take down and create "prejudicial fall-out to targeted innocents" that just happen to have their Free Speech attached to the targeted collapsed comment? Is lack of jobs the underlying reasons for the Occupy Movement, as you say in your post? Or is it an asserted symbolic interpretation of yours? Either answer, might I ask to be shown "your own basis from Free Speech" instead of another imported "link" to click on?
Good running into you again.
Bleeding,
Objects in picture are neither as sweet, nor as young as they may appear. I've oftentimes been told similar things from men who are intimidated by my ability to intelligently articulate my opinions. I'd be willing to place my money on a couple things.
First, you have zero ability to stand up to your wife/girlfriend and your boss. Second, you have feelings of futiltiy and think that your life is inconsequential. Third, you are nothing but polite to people in person, and accept their sh($ without saying boo. Fourth, the internet is the only place you allow your anger to come out. Fifth, you're a troll.
You would lose that bet...just like ur OWS is LOSING haha! Guess you took a couple Psych classes. Just remember to have dinner cooked by 6. Most important keep ur weight down babydoll-go easy on the bon bons
I'll make sure to do that Bleeding. And, apparently I was right on target.
Sarah,
If unions can contribute to politicians, why can't corporations? If corporations are not considered as being composed of people, how is it that unions are considered to be composed of people.
Why is it fair for one group to be able to make political contributions, but not the other?
Homeless, poor, 99%'ers need to be eradicated from the face of the earth. If Obama is not up to it, I'm sure Mitt "Obamney" Rombama, I mean, Romney is. I really thought that Obama would have resolved the issue already with "the final solution of the 99%er question". The rich have gotten exponentially richer under Obama and will get even more so under Mitt. Gotta' love America, we believe in politicians, both Democrat and Republican, that are only out there to raise money from the rich and destroy the rest of us. Obama and Romney could fund homeless shelters across the nation with the money that they collect from fundraising, but they don't care about you! They care about $$$$$ and getting elected/ re-elected. You 99%ers are just worthless peasants that only have value come election time. Now, realize that no matter who you vote for between Mitt or Barack, things will just continue to get worse.
Throw a wrench in the machine and vote for Ron Paul! I know, he's crazy! He has these ideas that politicians should work for American citizens and not Wall Street, Unions, Trial Lawyers, and major corporations! That's NUTS!
Concernedone,
I'm against Union contributions. That's why this can't be limited to an argument about Citizen's United, and must include Buckley v Valeo. Valeo ruled that money is speech, if you get rid of that it doesn't matter if your for profit, non-profit, or an individual, the amount of money you have no longer plays a part.
I'm actually all for labor union reform. Get rid of first in last out. Increase penalties for nepotism. Better protection for whistle blowers who speak out against them. Align the interests of the union with the interests of individual, competant, ethical workers. It all goes hand in hand. Do that in conjunction with Wall St reform, tax reform, and trade reform, and we've got Capitalism back.
bleedingheart--I guess she got your number!
Raincheck,
Lol, you know, it's really fairly easy. And the more they say, "No, no, no, you're wrong" and get defensive, the more it's just plain obvious.
The answer isn't insulting me, the answer is Cialis.
Sarah,
Good response. I was "hoping" you would say that. Voted it up! Good to hear a level-headded response in today's world. After all, it goes both ways, free of hyper-partisan demanding by extremists on both sides.
Concernedone,
Thank you for listening. So many people read one line and than assume I'm a partisan. Neither side is completely correct, or completely incorrect. :)
Independent like Indie, huh. ;-)
Sarah-3043284, # 1.46- Wow! Though I've been accused of being a non-reading Ignorant, I've seen and "READ" many, many what I would and did consider to be GREAT posts!
I'm wondering for myself and wanting to ask you if you could see "Personhood attached to Corporation in any way" as a "legal" impossibility, as I do? Which is to say, as "IPO" (Initial Purpose Obliterated). The purpose of incorporating a business to begin with, from a Personhood standpoint, is first to establish "Personhood" as disattached to "Corporate existence" and then to remove tangible "Personal" responsibility and liability from Corporate actions, most especially "actions" resultant and rising out of Corporate belief and vision. This very establishment is also mirrored in the tax code, as Corporation taxes being separate and due, as an entity unto itself, as also separate from any Corporate member's Personal tax. Legal Impossibility = IPO = A business cannot Incorporate, which automatically establishes protected Corporate belief and vision unto itself to then use (exploit) the personal belief and visions of its members, at will, as also unto itself, to then attempt to exploit and conquer beliefs and visions of the non-corporate "Sectors of Personhood" Society. They cannot incorporate to become or remain "of any connected personhood". It's a legal impossibility at the basis and that cannot be any kind of supporting basis for anything.(period) The Court has erred and should not have and cannot uphold a legal impossibility. And they most certainly cannot incorporate to overtake and conquer Personhood. Which is more than obviously what has happened.
Sorry so lengthy. Would love to have your thoughts on this.
Bleedingheart,
Dr. Sarah was able to report after the procedure "We have been able to reduce the swelling by
85%, bringing Bleedingheart's head down to the size of a small family car or large
hatchback, we have Bleeding wearing a 2 person inflatable boat as a hat to avoid any further damage, but
we hope to have his head down to a size where he will be able to drive his convertible with the roof up".
All family members are extremely pleased at the breakthrough, it was incredible, you should have seen it. I would have taken photos but I didn’t have a wide angle lens", his sister exclaimed. Medical staff first believed it may have been simply a large tumor with a face but this was disproven when some movement resembling motor skills was observed. "The operation was touch and go there for a while"
said Dr. Sarah, "we simply did not have medical instruments designed to cut through that amount of mass, even the industrial laser brought in especially for the operation struggled to get through the eight feet of solid stone, but the patient is doing well now and looking forward to one day being able to wear his trucker hats again".
Mystery,
A little heavy on the legalease, but I'll give it a try.
Yes, I believe it is a legal impossibility for corporations to be "people".
I think that you can have the limited or distinct liability for a corporation, in terms of torts and criminal actions, without having to label it a person. The corporations may not be charged with whatever crime it's owners or operators committ, but the owners/operators can. If the corporation was a person, how would we hold it accountable??? Throw it in "corporation" jail??? The initial purpose of that corporation is to make money for it's shareholders. The shareholders all get an individual vote in our political elections, correct??? So they get their say/rights, to let them have a say/rights through corporate personhood in addition to their individual say/rights, is esentially "bestowing" them more than once. They now, effectively, have double the civil rights that I do.
If corporations are people, to me it seems as if the court's doubling down on personhood. The individual owners/operators have their rights as people, as well as benefit from the corporations personhood. They're granted a second helping of freedom of speech and a gigantic second helping of the right to a fair say in our elections and the ability to petition government. Which basically throws out the whole concept of "endowment by a creator" and "all men being equal". It's in complete contrast to what the laws/rights of our nation are supposed to be based on.
Continuing...
If you couple corporate personhood with this unmitigated desire to "deregulate", where exactly does corporate responsibility come in?
We all remember the saying "With rights come responsibilities", correct? It seems like this rush to corporations equaling people at the same time many are saying we need to deregulate, gives corporations all the rights, but none of the responisbilities.
There's nothing sentient or free thinking about a corporation. It's a puppet on the hands of it's masters. Masters who already have equality and protection under the law.
Last point...
If we're "endowed by our creator" and humans create corporations, are we than Gods capable of endowing people/things with rights?
There's too many contradictions. As I mentioned before, if corporations are people, how can we own them? Wouldn't that be in conflict with the 13th Amendment?
Sarah- Thank you so much for replying. I'm happy that you found my post inside this entirely collapsed section. I've read all you replies and will go back and reread tomorrow when I have some uninterrupted time to do so.
Just quickly, I strongly believe that a return to "Heavy on the Legalease" is the only things that's going to correct A LOT. The Law is incricate. And The Law has been just as bamboozled by years and years worth of these "slick" Lawyers making nothing but slick, bamboozling, ideological arguments of fancy and whim and convenience. Obviously Judges are in the equation somehow, too. For some reason they aren't in charge of and running their Courtrooms in accordance with beginning with "legal basis". It's been said, like it's some kind of a good thing!, that "Lawyers hold the keys to the Courthouse". I say, "relinquish keys please!" and return to the proverbial "Tell it to the Judge" attitude.(based on the Judge supposing to be there to "comprehensively" interpret all pertinent facets of the law to what the Lawyer is asking for before deciding whether to grant it or not). If a Lawyer has bamboozled a Judge or Judges, it's on the Judge that he allowed it to happen. How do you end up with a bamboozled "legal impossibility" out of The Supreme Court? Where was all the Legalease that even Laypeople are figuring out...and without having to delve into a lot of thought about it! How can you have Civil Rights Attorneys from what bills themselves as being a Civil Rights Firm being the opposing Attorneys in a Civil Rights case? (real example). Today I'm making the case "for" Civil Rights and tomorrow I'm in Court to oppose Civil Rights? Free Speech exists today for Corporations but it doesn't exist tomorrow for Occupy? Heavy on the Legalease! Do you know that one definition of an Emergency is "if it's apparent to a Layperson that something is wrong and action needs to be taken as soon as possible to either stop what is wrong or prevent further harm from occurring"? (paraphrased)
Sorry, I said I'd be quick and I wasn't able to. Dinner's burning! Will check again later or tomorrow. Thanks again. "M"
So here is a thought....relocate the campers to the North and South Lawns of the White House. Erect appropriate bathroom facilities. I am sure that Warren Buffet would not mind donating these structures, he could even get plaque. Then allow those who wish to camp and clutter up the lawn to stay there in their tents and shanties. They could certainly manage to organize a detail to keep the facilities clean on their own. They might even be encouraged to help Michelle with her garden and then have access to the food produced by their own hands. Then they could maybe move in some livestock for the meat eaters among them.
They wish for a place to represent the 99%...what better place than the home of one of the most loved and certainly most benevolent (even though it isn't his money to give away) 1%'s in the country.
This would certainly be free speech at it's highest and well would solidify the support by Obama himself.
i say let them help govern too.
they can't do any worse than the Socialist in the WH right now.
So, lessee, that would mean that there would be a bad smell outside the White House..might cover up the bad smell comming from within ...
Moderators please...seems that the anonymous wish to continue to censor....can you please ask them to stop or sit them in a corner, just smack them on the bottom or call their mommies to come pick them up?
LOL.
I hear fire hoses work the best for washing scum off the street.
That will just leave skid marks and stains! Batons and Tasers to start and then move on to Bang Sticks!
a
If anyone is really interested in washing the scum from D.C. those fire hoses should be directed at the U.S. Congress not the protesters.
So very true.
Those Occupiers are pathetic "wanna-be's" who are trying to romanticize a bye gone era they missed out on; but just don't realize they can't bring it back, and shouldn't want to.
The country has moved on for the better while they want to relive the past. They look and act like dopes.
Keep up the good fight, OWS!
You are changing the narrative about wealth inequality and the horrors of Corporate Plutocracy.
Losing this battle is a mere skirmish in the war to democratize access to the access to a living wage, to which all people are entitled.
i have 2 questions ...........
1) what is their "good fight " all about ? after all these months , its still not clear to anyone ( including themselves ) what they are protesting . they are turning violent , which to me shows their frustration . they are never going to accomplish anything , if they continue like this !
2) what is wealth equality ? and what does it have to do with wall-street ? in my life i have learned ( the hard way ) i earn what i work for .... no more no less ! no one OWES anyone anything !
I wouldn't call breaking laws and slumming "changing the narrative" these people are nothing more than bums who use this as an excuse not to own up to their real responsibilities.
Never...
Getting arrested for the empowering acts of "public urination, drunkeness, assault, and drug use" is not 'changing the narrative about wealth inequality" or anything else.
One 'occupier' stated "we like to have surprises when we can"...good, hopefully that means the will clean up after themselves before leaving the park.
The 99%ers crack me up. They always say "there is no one to vote for" or "the system is corrupt" - this is just an excuse to be lazy and not do research.
The system is beautiful - if you don't like anyone on the ballot you can...are you ready? WRITE THEM IN!!!
Facebook all your other loser friends, pick someone and write them on 99% of your ballots and....guess what?...YOU WIN THE ELECTION.
Stop camping and start using the system as is was meant to be used.
Remember SOPA or PIPA? I wrote my congresswoman and guess what happened? DEFEATED!!
We have the best system in the world....and all I ask is for you to leave the house every two years and vote!!
Frisky...
From the start of the 'occupy' mess, I have claimed to be a member of the 53%.
And here is good old ultraliberal MSNBC.com denying the commentators their right to comment when they are shuffled to the msnbc.com from the nbc tv sites. There has to be an investigation how nbc tv which has a government licence to broadcastf can tell viewers to go to private sites on the internet to vote and comment and then be banned and suspended for doing just that. Their freedom of speech is stopped by nbc once they are on the sites that nbc sends them to vote and make comments.
We all know that msnbc.com earns income by the traffic it generates and is measured. These funds are used for liberal attacks on republicans. It is time for the federal government to intervene and have an investigation and get Gillin, Dickerson and Tillinghast to explain what they are doing.
@ responsiblemommy - I guess there is nothing wrong with asking. I think there is more than one thing that attributes to the uncertainty to what OWS is all about and what they want. One I believe is disorganization. It is an open protest. So anyone can join. Even those who oppose it. Back in the 60s. The protests were primarily organized by students. I don't think the media is that interested in getting a message accross to the general public either. And I think that the Occupy movement has missed a great opportunity to move from the public parks into a more organized, and accepted venue.
I however, believe that a great example of what Occupy Wall Street is really about can be explained by Looking at the Gramm Leach Bliley Act. AKA "Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999", or popularly known as the Repeal of the "Glass–Steagall Act". It seems that no one denies that this played some significant roll in the economic crisis of 2008. But what people have an issue with is who is to blame. The real truth is that both political parties can share the blame. But it is the US financial cartel (Led by the Greenspan and the FED along with Citibank who were relentless in pushing this through). The FED actually reinterpreted the Glass–Steagall Act for congress and had changed it without the approval of congress. It was Citicorp's purchase of Travelers that made the repeal necessary. And it was Greenspan and the Fed that gave Citicorp a one year exemption to give the White House and Congress time to put together a bill to repeal the Glass–Steagall Act. And it only took 9 years for Wall Street to take it and trash the economy while making record profits.
That is part of what OWS is about.
Then maybe you should tell them !
Anyone that is ignorant to the point of claiming that sales taxes, employment taxes, gas taxes, property taxes, etc. do not apply to 47% of citizens is not worth debating.
It was not that long ago that a commoner like me could walk about the grounds of the White House. Today, we are not allowed to use our parks? What would Thomas Jefferson say? I am sure that Hamilton would be happy along with his good buddy Monroe.
maurice....
That "47%" applies only to the percentage not paying frederal income taxes. As to the amount of other taxes added to that amount, I can state that in 2006, the 'average' taxpayer in Connecticut paid 38.3% in combined federal, state, and local taxes.
That's "38.3%" and the number is verifiable...for the state's average taxpayer.
To me, that's mighty ugly...and it was before the state's "largest tax increase in history" that kicked in during 2011...which makes it even uglier !
Sarah, funny how you assume i'm a man haha! Ur husband will need cialis in a couple years after u put on even more weight and ur looks are gone. He probably need it now-being stuck with you for the rest of his life haha! God Bless him!
I wonder when the Obama reelection team will give the occupiers their marching orders for the next phase of ObamaNation2012?
I love this; it’s the left against the left. The protesters were guaranteed a gravy train job if they went to college “lib schools” and they want the jobs the elder libs have, well well well,,,,, the chicks have come home to roost and Yawl don’t like it!!!!
Service country my A$$ MOFO’s!!!!! Both sides are F,D UP, Bush can kiss my A$$ too!!!!
Go occupy Mexico, North Korea, India and China and see what happens when you confront your liberal government partners…………….
responsiblemommy-- The information you seek is easy to find, just not from right-wing sources like FOX Noise/Hate Radio, Drudge, chain Emails, etc. Income inequality is very real and easily verifiable. Teapublicans cling to old failed policies that are causing the inequality, and must be thrown out.
History shows that when inequality becomes too large, uprisings increase and become more violent. This is happening globally with the Arab Spring in the Middle East to Europe where austerity is not working, especially Greece where it is the Ferrari owners who don't pay taxes... Speaking of which...
tony-268769-- In reply, the 47% who don't pay Federal income taxes are primarily the self-employed/business owners who are able to use write-offs to show zero earnings. W2 workers are subjected to third-party reporting so can't cheat so easily. The W2 workers not paying taxes are people like the Duggars benfiting from the $1,000 per child tax credit. Then there are the richest 1% (and some 2%ers) only paying effective tax rates of 15% at best.
Remove all the loopholes that allow cheating and tax evasion (including corporate welfare for companies like GE), and tax people on ALL of their income including capital gains. This is a simple, fast first step to balancing our budget. But blaming only the poor is a crock of crap being spewed by the right-wing and their crony capitalist friends on Wall Street and in Big Oil.
I may not agree with all Occupy ideas or tactics, but I applaud the movement for bringing income inequality, election influence, fair taxation, etc. to the forefront.
These camps are being overrun with rats! If the protesters have nowhere to go maybe the Park Police should point them to the nearest homeless shelter.
Somehow "Occupy Homeless Shelters" just doesn't have the same Zing to it.
I think the problem is that the homeless occupied them.
So, once they get arrested, does it become "Occupy Alcatraz"........?
@been there: Sadly, you're right. The last time I was in DC, there were homeless people camping out everywhere in the McPherson Square area, and--back in the day--many slept within a stone's throw of the White House fence. The number blossomed when Ronald Rayguns with his RIFs and trickle-down economics gave the skidoo to many psychiatric patients at a local hospital.
Apparently their "occupy" movement wasn't much of a consciousness-raising event either.
I was under the misguided impression that these OWS Protesters were just that, Citizens who gathered together to protest the greed and corruption of Wall Street.
However, if this article is to be believed, they are just a bunch of homeless people looking for a "Tent City" to band together in solidarity!
If they, as the spokesman said, don't have any place to go and are indeed homeless I feel sorry for them but they need to modify their message. They need to be asking "Where are the jobs you promised, Mr. President?"
However, even if they ask that question, they probably wouldn't be hired in any responsible job. Sort of a "Catch 22" they have created for themselves. Not many employers are willing to put their business at risk by hiring activists who "have the bent" to disrupt that business because they don't like the color of the chairs in the conference room or equally trivial gripes.
After all is said and done, their REAL gripe is in the Halls of Congress and the White House. Those are the people who allowed Wall Street and the Banks to pull off this sham on the American Citizens.
When there is injustice and the powers that have bought our government and control Congress get mad that some people are trying to rectify the wrongs that are being perpetrated by those who are supposed to represent us, they start making up lies about the people who are protesting these wrongs. The Occupiers are not filthy, homeless, jobless uneducated bums but patriots who are willing to risk everything to right the wrongs in our system. What really confuses me is that so many people have such short memory spans about the facts and the figures that have come out since the OWS movement started about exactly who these people are.
When the Supreme Court upheld Citizens United thus opening up the floodgates to the very wealthy and the big multi-national corporations to contribute billions of dollars into campaign funds thereby assuming control of our election process, the only thing that common citizens like the rest of us could do is to speak out with our voices in protest.
The actions of the authorities and the sometimes violent attacks against the Occupiers villages is the wealthy's attempt to end this movement and they have the police and the mayor's office to support them. Why is it that those with the money are the only ones who are allowed to express their viewpoint and convince the gullible that an action taken by the people on behalf of the people is something sordid and evil?
When money has a stronger voice in matters than the majority of people, we lose our democracy and end in fascism!
Then have George Soros, Michael Moore, George Clooney, Bill Ayers, and others donate money to the OWS cause. Oh wait, it's because they don't actually support the cause because corporate investment is where they derive their money.
CPO Sharkey,
Just FYI, Occupy Alcatraz has been done before. American Indians did it November 1969 to June 1971.
Can't they be both?
I'm loving the protracted use of the solution that these protestors need to get a job. Statistics show that more than half (A whopping 70%) of the protestors have jobs (Or at least HAD jobs when the protests were at their height). Regardless, nationwide, the ratio of people applying for a job as compared to job openings is 4 people for every 1 opening. Impossible to get a job? Not necessarily. But when you've got a 1 in 4 shot, it does make it a bit difficult. In some states (Good ol' California, for example, where I live) that ratio is more along the lines of 5 or 6 to every opening. Luckily, I've been fortunate enough to keep my previous job for the time being (Though the company is going bankrupt after 11 years of operation), and after literally 3 years of applying at various places (Since my 16th birthday) have finally been called in for an interview (Wish me luck). Personal quips aside, I doubt our 9% unemployment rate was the result of an upswing in laziness. People lost their jobs. As many as ten or fifteen million lost their jobs between late 2007 - 2011. Luckily, things have started to improve (Check jobless reports, and job gains statistics), but it takes time. So saying "Go get a job" isn't necessarily the correct response to the OWS protestors.
I think OWS lost track due to it's greatest strength; It's message. Whether from outside sources or not (I've heard clearly defined explanations of the message from inside OWS and from outside OWS, and I've heard MUDDLED explanations from inside and from outside OWS), OWS lost a lot of momentum due to it's "undefined and muddled message." OWS as a whole began as an attempt to fix our corrupt and crooked bank system, promote Wall Street reform, and fix corrupt business practices (Which, incidentally, a large majority of the people of the United States agree need to be fixed. Whether it's 99% or not is a different question). Imagine your house is worth, say 400,000 at the time you purchase it. You get a loan for financing, have a well-paying job, pay your bills, and everything's hunky-Dorey. All of a sudden, the recession hits, and your house is worth 200k as opposed to 400k, and has no chance of becoming worth 400k again in the foreseeable future. Yet you're still stuck paying for a loan that was for a 400,000 dollar house. So through no fault of your own, your house lost value. But you're still paying for it's ORIGINAL value. How does that make any sense?
As for Wall Street reform; You're an investor in the stock market, which is a good thing, and a great privilege in this country. Unfortunately, it's not your primary source of income. You have a job to help support yourself and your family. So you pay someone to manage your Wall Street investments. This man has unlimited access to your money. His motive is to make a profit, because Wall Street is his job. He doesn't give a crap about YOUR money, he gets paid either way. But HIS job is to invest your money. So he goes to invest your money in a company, and that company is hit hard by the recession or has low viability or is shut down in some other way. Your money is gone. Again, he gets paid regardless, so he doesn't care that your money has mysteriously disappeared into the pockets of some rascally businessman who KNEW the market was going to crash, but convinced you and your investor that their companies were viable (Bernie Madoff, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers?). These crooks who were throat-deep in the @!$%#-storm they caused screwed you out of money, and how many were held accountable? Well... Madoff was, but that's because he made the mistake of ripping off rich people, but that's beside the point.
As for corrupt business practices, take a look at oil prices when the whole "Arab Spring" movement was going on. Oil prices went up, not because there was a shortage of oil, but because there was a presumed notion that there was GOING to be a shortage of oil. We lost literally no oil either in trade or consumption during the Arab Spring. And yet gas prices went from around 3.10 to 4.00 flat. The same pattern can be traced throughout the business world, but the oil and gas companies are the easiest to explain.
OWS was, and I'm sure in a large part, still IS against all these things. People getting screwed out of money through no fault of their own, and ending up financially deficient and despondent because of it. Unfortunately, the message was lost amid the rioting, murder claims, and stories of public defecation. Regardless of your claim as to whether you're a 99% or not, the majority of Americans agree on all these issues. Hopefully we can find some middle ground somewhere and pull ourselves out of this slump.
Factofthematter,
Think about it from the lenders perspective - they loaned you $400,000 and now you don't want to pay it back - is that fair? Also, what about earlier last decade when people borrowed $200,000 and sold their homes a few years for $400,000 - the lender didn't get any benefit from that price increase. It would not be fair to the lender if they have to pay if prices go down, but don't get any reward if prices go up. Think about it...would you lend money under those rules?
Facts- Your admiration of the OWS is touching (you are definitely from Ca), but not pragamatic. Some advice, when you interview for the next position, try not to display your disdain for capitalism, you just might end up in the "Park" with the other unemployed "protesting liberals"!
Don't rats go down sewers?
keeter-2982792 You should be on the show, tell the biggest lie. Ronald Reagan put more people to work than any other president than Roosevelt and he put them to work in the military. It was the courts that emptied the hospitals where the mentally ill were kept as they were sent there by the police to protect them and have them taken care of. When the lawsuit was won by the do gooders that the inmates had to agree to be taken care of and they refused, they were let out in the streets. Ask good old NYC mayor, Koch, he threw them out on the streets to save money. Turned out to be a bad decision as crime rocketed.
Take the occupiers down to the Mexican border and have them pick up the trash.
julio- Have the OWS boycott the capitalist, money hoarding Cartels, in Mexico!
M Thompson-1401432 send them to Mexico and you will get them back in body bags.
FactoftheMatter-1981569 Your ignorance about finance, economics, accounting, investing and risk taking is astounding. Get some common sense, do some reading, get a grasp of reality and learn to put your fingers on the pulse of the economy. Recessions happen all the time. Latest survey has 60% of the people unprepared for retirement. Social security is not going to make it. Look at today's article on Japan. Japan is losing 1 million people a year due to the high cost of living and don't want to have large families. As they don't want large families, less workers, less social security payments, less health care payments more retirees on less money. It is estimated that Japan will lose half its population in less than 50 years.
Easy to see how that will happen here. People have to take more responsibility for themselves. Government has to get out of the people business. Get out of social security, health benefits, schools etc. It has to go back to being minimal and people have to take on their own responsibility.
been there, done that. If they don't have anything, how can they risk anything?
And if anyone believes that these idiots had jobs and left them to protest, and expect to get them back, you are dreaming.
You know why the occupiers, occupied the area around the White House? If they tried to set up camps further away, they would have been attacked by the residents of Washington D.C. which has the highest crime rate in the nation. Congress can't even clean up its own city. Baltimore Maryland cleaned up its ghettos. Congress can't clean up the Washington D.C. ghettos? How the hell can it lead the rest of the nation?
I'm sure BO wouldn't mind the company over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Hey Walter, isn't there a golf course somewhere near that all of these OWS'ers can occupy? Obiewon wouldn't mind if they would let him play through!
But if he put them in Lincoln's bedroom, he couldn't rent it out.
julio -
He'd expect them to pay rent - or at least vote for him
These are still going on? That doesn't speak well for their efficiency.
Efficiency? They are a disgrace to society and proof that Obama doesn't want to improve the U.S. school system.
Smh, what part of "no camping" don't people seem to understand? You can sit, stand, jump, lay down; pretty much anything but sleep and put up a tent/camper and they still whine. Sit outside in a poncho or something. the police already said they would work with them as long as they weren't camping. Maybe if these people quite migrating their stench and feces everytime they got kicked out of a park for not complying maybe they wouldn't have lost most of their support. I have a great idea, there are these farmers that are going to need some help in a few months with this thing call "manual labor" maybe they can go earn some of those rights they seem to try and stretch and over-ride everyone elses.
Guess who gets to clean up after these slobs migrate to another park?
That's right, the 99%!
Friggin scumbags.
Manual Labor? Surely you jest! They're Wayyyy overqualified to do manual labor. Unless you're willing to offer a corner office with a view and 100K a year to start, don't even mention a job to this bunch. Sad, isn't it, because there's plumbers, carpenters and electricians out there in need of help and they pay well. Then again..there's that dirty word...manual labor...involved
That brings up the other argument about overqualified. Trade schools are cheaper, shorter and usually get you job placement right out the door. And yes, once you get the experience it pays very well. Even just starting out it usually pays $15-$30/hr. Business degrees are dime-a-dozen these days and don't help your job prospects any more than a high school diploma.
Isn't that just the problem? Burger flipper has somehow become a stronger insult than welfare recipient. I respect the people that make my food at McDonalds just as much as I do any of my law partners, and that's what we need to get rid of these "occupiers". People who respect work more than a free ticket.
Chef you don't know what you are talking about, the unemployment rate for people with a Bachelors or higher is less than 5%.
check back after the class of '12 graduates and joins these morons because they feel they are entitled to be given a job just because they got through college. Besides, isn't one of the complaints from OWS kids something about tuition being too high?
and with a trade education you can get a job in hours.
Auto, you too are clueless. There are 2 openings for every IT graduate in 2012, health care degrees, accounting, engineering, etc have jobs BEFORE they graduate.
Never in my 20 year carreer in IT have I worked at a place that was able to stay fully staffed, that is why so many come here from India, they have DEGREES and we have too many openings and not enough AMERICANS to fill them.
Chef, what is it about 5% that you do not understand, according to Bill Clinton, 5% equals full employment.
P.S. Since the trades make up just 8% of the employment pool, and the unemployment rate for those in the trades is significantly higher than for those with a BS/BA degree, and a majority in the trades have at least some college education, your argument against college falls flat.
Also, according to the BLS, the top ten jobs with the highest unemployment are:
I see a lot of trades there......hmmmm
Flunk out or what?
Chef...
There were stories on the news last week about President Obama coming out with some new rules and regulations concerning college tuition increases...some kind of new bureaucratic review board will be studying plans for tuition increases to see if they are justified. Yup...another layer of your friendly government with it's own ball of strings to pull.
Trying to bag the 'occupier' voting bloc, no doubt !
Since the average college graduate makes 1 million dollars more than those without during their lifetime, and the fact you cant go to a state school for about 50K, the price of college is not really a deterrent.
Those jobs are in the HOUSING Sector. Try Tool and dye maker,try Welder,try Machinist,try CAD,try the different manufacturing jobs. That is WHERE WE NEED WORKERS. Ask any Manufacturer and they will tell you they can't fill their empty jobs. NO ONE IS QUALIFIED!!
Tool and dye? Dont they need factories? No growth there dude. Staking your future on manufacturing is not exactly a safe option.
CAD operator is not a trade, trade schools have many "degrees" that are the same as a college degree even some in IT, just not as marketable unless you have very good grades.
there is a large demand in Industrial/housing A/C. Also In Automotive. Also for Trucking mechanics.
They have a lot of factories here in the states. Just look at GM they only employ 150,000 people however the suppliers that are employed in the US is about 3.5 million Toyota even employs about 1.5 million people indirectly.
ScoMata, you sound like someone on welfare trying to make excuses to stay on it.
The point i was trying to make was that 60-80% of the graduates in the past 5 years (if not more) have come out with a business management (or something very similar) degree and those degrees have become pretty much a rubber stamp on the resume going across every HR desk. These people think that because they have a degree there should be a job waiting for them. They complain about having to spend all this money on tuition at a big school when they could have gotten the same worthless degree at a community college or (more cheaply, in both time and money) they could have gone to a trade school and had the job placement they seek coming out. Pessimism is the key to laziness and you my friend are very pessimistic.
I am all for getting Americans jobs, unfortunately they seem to all be trying to get the same job to get themselves into the 1% they are protesting and seem to me more ticked off that it's now harder to get there than they thought.
Slodon was correct in pointing out that most of the jobs you listed are in the housing/construction business. That bubble burst a while ago. Trade school does not always equal construction, they can be medical, dental, construction, culinary, electrical and others. The fact that you limit your scope shows you don't understand what a trade is or you do so to try and increase the validity of your point at the expense of the whole truth. Truth is there ARE jobs out there that need done, people just have to be willing or trained to do them and a BA isn't going to cut it.
Time to leave you dirty, smelly, slobs! Try cleanning up after yourselves too-or is that someone else's job? Bunch of cry baby metrosexual wanna be hipsters! Your credibility is gone.
They ever had credibility?
Make sure you cut off their welfare and food stamps!
Send them down to the border to clean up the "I" trash.
mace and plastic ties work really well.
off to jail they go... without their iPads.
That's the trouble with these people. iPads, iPods, iMacs, iPhones, iTunes, everything they know has become centered on the word I
It's not the I problem, is that they keep missing I produce and I earn,
Believer...
Great line !!! And of course, there's no "i" in team !
What you describe is the fact that evildoing corporations that the 'occupiers' supposedly despise have built an extremely narcissistic customer base over the past decade or so..."i-this" and "i-that". The next generation of electronic trinkets might be labeled "my-this" and "my-that".
Again...great pick up & a great line !!!
They need to spend there time and energy in doing something "productive" rather than acting like idiots. Go update the resume, pound the ground to find work, clean up the place, anything! I can't imagine anyone will feel sorry and give them a job acting like that. All the damages should come form THEIR pockets not state and local taxpayers dollars. Round them up and send them to Mars!
Actually this is something we can win by outsourcing them to the prison islands off Mexico. We pay Mexico $3000 a year per prisoner instead of the U.S. paying $30,000 per year putting them in jail here in the states.
davestuart I received an email from one of the so called leaders and it was incoherent filled with anarchistic, socialistic and liberal mumbo jumbo and lacked any conclusion. Perhaps he was stoned or drunk. What it did show me is that these people are the dregs of society and no one in their right mind would hire them for any kind of menial job.
To Justin Jacoby Smith:
Quit looking for a place to be given you to sleep and dream. Get a job; work hard, get an education like so many of us did to overcome difficult circumstances. AGAIN-- quit dreaming and get to work. Do something productive for yourself and America
These Occupy scumbags attacked the Oakland city hall yesterday and also burned the flag there. They've been claiming to support the "99%" but I don't think 99% of the country supports attacking a city hall and burning the flag. Since they are free to leave the country they hate so much, I guess the reason they haven't left is because other countries don't want their smelly asses either.
I hear Iraq is nice this time of year.
Put them on a plane and drop them off.
Yes, the explosions really highlight the city skyline. And the bursts of dust and ash look lovely against the sunset.
dont loose site of the whole point of this, of course there are people that are not doing what they should but that does not mean the whole group is bad.
I support those there that are doing it the right way and when the media looses focus on the positive side of things and fails to give praise to those who are standing up for what is right it makes me wonder why they are really writing this report.
It is funny how when the tables are turned and the media reports the bad about your cause you are quick to react! The media spins everything against the "1%" and that is all you hear about! So I do not want to hear about how bad the media is when just a few months back they where your best friend! Cry on someone else’s shoulder!
Hey anderso8623, some of the protesters have their trivial faults, but they did not rape an entire nation out of it's wealth like the "1%" did, hardly seems like a good comparison.
Only problem with your point is all of the OWS idiots had no focus or positive message in the first place. Every place occupy protesters showed up they caused nothing but problems, they've taken nice parks and other areas and left trash and other filth for others to have to clean up. Most of the dumbasses that show up at these protest dont even know why they are there. AlexinPa, your right, these idiots want to trash everything and live (literally) in their own piss and @!$%# then put them on a plane and drop them off in Iraq or some other place like that where people wiping their ass with their bare hand is normal.
The problem is that they have not accomplishing anything with these tactics. So yeah, they've raised awareness, but now what?? Violence, rioting and civil "disobedience" not win the day.
I keep hearing the 99% this and the 1% that over and over. During the Occuby NY fiasco the Occupy rabble had broken into three factions; when interviewed most of the rabble didn't know what they wanted, one faction leader spouted about anarchism, another about socialism and so on. Now the Occupy mess in Oakland broke into City Hall and burned a stolen US flag! How do these people expect any reasonable person to understand their agenda when apparantly they themsellves don't know what they want, other than PARTY!!!
OWS kids say that the 1% are robbers and criminals yet they want that money to pay for their college among other things- wow that's enough to make you scratch your head- you stole that money now let me steal it from you- and the Dems are no better they say that Rep are greedy yet they want to get their hands on that money- I for one would rather let the private sector push money around than let the govt take it and waste it- Stimupork jobs cost on avg 200k each did they hire scientists or what and if they did what did they discover?
Call me crazy, but I thought the media's job was to objectively report current events without bias.
John, hahahahahahaha. LMAO objective-media. Oxymoron
John....
The media's idea of objectively reporting on current events without bias pretty much means running daily pieces about Mitt Romney's income and paid tax amounts alongside puff pieces like "Michelle Obama's Fashionable Looks".
John, you're crazy.
JBurton81 When you learn to spell and write English, maybe something you say will have meaning.
Ultraliberal Chris Matthews rant in November 2011 on nbc about Obama:
What are we trying to do in this administration? Why does he want a second term? Would he tell us? What’s he going to do in the second term? More of this? Is this it? Is this as good as it gets? Where are we going? Are we going to do something the second term? He has yet to tell us. He has not said one thing about what he would do in the second term. He never tells us what he is going to do with reforming our healthcare systems, Medicare, Medicaid, how is going to reform Social Security. Is he going to deal with long-term debt? How? Is he going to reform the tax system? How? Just tell us. Why are we in this fight with him? Just tell us, Commander, give us our orders and tell us where we’re going, give us the mission. And he hasn’t done it.
In truth Obummer hasn't done anything and will be torn to pieces in any debate. Johnson, Carter and Clinton were all mistakes. Well have them move over Obummer is joining them.
John-2032532 You are not right. What we need is an organization for truth in news reporting and blasting any organization publicly for misrepresenting the accurate news and making that report available throughout the U.S. The U.S. citizens have the right to know the unfiltered news, read sensible, well written news reports and unsanitized news reports that are not corrupted by the left or the right.
We need a strictly accurate and honest unbiased news reporting system, similar to the news reports that came out of England during wwII that people can read and make up their own minds. We are not robots that have to be programmed or brainwashed by self appointed gods in news rooms and tv stations.
We also need to know who is reporting the news from organizations like reuters and ASS-sociated press and what are the political leanings of the reporters and have the reporters put their direct email accounts in their bylines. Too many are afraid to be reprimanded for their biased and ridiculous reporting.
John-2032532 My apologies, the window closed quickly. My first statement should read the following:
YOU ARE RIGHT!
w bush You know nothing about economics and finances. And you have not done any research or reading on wealth creation. If the 1% did not reinvest, take risks, create companies and jobs, there would be no wealth in the first place. Take your place at the front of the line of the occupiers and show them and the world your brilliance.
The government does not create wealth. The poor do not create wealth, the middle class do not create wealth, then who is left to create wealth? It doesn't create itself. Are you that uneducated you believe that money lies on the ground and someone finds it and makes factories, makes jobs and succeeds?
Wally-1853299 The only awareness they have created is that they are freeloaders who don't know what they are doing, will not get jobs, the costly public education was wasted on them and they refuse to start at the bottom like the rest of us and use our brains, ability and drive to make money to advance our status in life.
i thought the libtards in Washington were on their side?
why are they kicking out these poor kids?
lol
here come the rubber bats... better run!
I don't have a problem with protesting, but becoming a squatter on government property is the wrong way to protest in my opinion. Guess if the police can get them out of their camp then it's easier to use tear gas and riot sticks,-- if they protest the usual way on the street.
If they don't leave then give them three squares and a cot in jail. Enough is enough.
Joyce the people who should be given the three squares and a cot in jail are not the protesters but the people they are protesting against, the wall street robber barons who stole the wealth of the country.
What have the "robber barons" done that is illegal?
@w bush read your history the robber barons and investors of wall street made the wealth of this country. Do you believe that a large number of disenchanted clueless protesters made any wealth for this country (other than the wealth the media garnered from sponsors of the nightly news coverage)? For these people to sit and complain they are owed anything by the government or the !% is an insult to the real 99% who work and provide and pay for the things their family needs. Have a nice day.
So now they protest they can't dream? What is next on their "agenda"? The inability to have erotic wet dreams?
They're a small group of petulant spoiled children, complaining that what mommy and daddy told them really wasn't true.
Real life has a nasty habit of kicking your ass regardless of what mom and dad told you kiddies. Learn from your experience, pick yourselves up and get on with life.
I was reading in the comments of another OWS article that, some, of the offensive and violent actions of the OWS demonstrations were police plants. The OWS people used their cameras to document some of the police pants. To me it sounds odd, but possible. Go nonviolent occupiers.
Of course...'police plants' made them do it ! Probably FBI agents posing as hobos and counter intelligence agents curled up inside the stinky tents too !
I don't know why they are protesting. If you don't pay the price and learn how money works then you will stay at the bottom. You have to choose do you want to know who has the most Touchdowns or how to make money. Go a head and take the advice from your broke friends on how to handle money it wont get you any where. Most millionaires are self made and have paid the price to be there. most people don't even know what most millionaires are. Most millionaires paid for their own college, most never inherited more than 10,000, Most have been married to the same woman for 30 years or more, most never paid more than 30K for a vehicle, and most are over 55. So yes they are self made and earned it their income is 100K-250K.Did you know the number one vehicle a millionaire drives is an F-150? They live well in their means and most you would not recognise
"when you can't sleep, you can't dream." You've got to be kidding me! That's all you have to say mister 25 year old? Holy crap. I was 19 in college, went to DC to cover the May Day Demonstrations in 1971. Vietnam being the issue not only a war without end...but the government didn't have the BALLS to declare it such (a freaking WAR!) it was still declared a police action. That tells you something right there; we weren't in it to win it....a money making meat grinder where young lads were used as cannon fodder. Got clubbed, maced, tear-gassed, and thrown in jail just for being there with long hair. A neutral observer caught in the crossfire.
These twits are clueless as to why they are there, what their agenda is, and exactly what it is they expect to get out of their civil disobedience. Do you have a right to protest...hell ya! Do you have a right to ignore the law, regulations? NOPE. Sure, you can ignore and piss on them...but expect to suffer some serious consequences. You wanna play rough, prepare to get your heads banged.
Beev...
So not only are you not willing to allow the 'occupiers' into the cozy "1%" club...but you won't stand up for them and fight for their right to "dream" either.
Man, you are harsh !
obungles chickens are coming home to roost!!!
lolol I bet these look like the same comments in the local papers during the racial protest back in the day.
Except those protesters knew what they were protesting, were coherent, and spoke with a single voice. The OWS "protesters" seem to have gotten lost on the way to some music festival and all of them were going to see a different performer. OWS is the Wile E. Coyote of protest movements.
I understand your point but we should not hate or belittle people that only seek fair and equal treatment. These protestors know what they want its the media that tells everyone that they dont know what they want. They are protesting for a reason not for the fun of it!
OK Pissedoffperson, please tell me what the OWS really want! Because the leaders of the 3 factions of OWS in NYC got into a battle about what their actual agenda was! Other than anarchy and socialism no solid end point/aim could be agreed upon!
I am one of the "99%", i.e. not a millionaire, yet I worked hard all of my life and I am content. I don't need this bunch of malcontents claiming that they represent me, because they don't!
Well since your govt does not represent you I understand why you dont want these people to represent you. The corporations love people like you.
Well done! You avoided answering the question. At least I know what corporations want. They want to make money and by working for them, I stress the word working (as opposed to expecting a handout), I in turn make money.
Now, what do the OWS want as a final goal? Socialism, anarchy, communism...what?
They want fair treatment on all levels, not handouts!!
They have several websites set up with all sorts of information try visiting one if you want to find out what the local OWS is demanding. You might find that more informing then asking someone in a blog about what someone else wants and demands.
FYI Everyone who is at OWS is not looking for a handout, you might have heard that on your local news station.. lol
Once again you have deflected the question. As of yet you have not explained what OWS want. You are making it appear that you don't really know what they want. So I suggest that you go to their websites and come up with a clear, concise and comprehensive outline of the goals of the OWS. In other words, what is their, realistic, vision of how the US economy, benefitting those who work for a living, will be in 5 - 10 years from now. Of course this would exclude the US becoming a socialist or communist state.
I am happy with the way things are, having bust my ass for 40 years, after starting from nothing! I am now firmly in the middle-class!
Since I am not OWS I answered your question in my first statement," Fair treatment on all level" with a simple answer. I pointed you to go find out what your local OWS wants because I am not a part of them and I currently do not represent them. Maybe in your 40 years you might have focused some of your time on research instead of depending on me to find answers that you seek. I do not see where I informed you that I was apart of the NY OWS and I know what they want but I do support a lot of what my "local" OWS is fighting for so maybe you were confused since you have been working for 40 years straight. I am glad your happy with the way things are but you might want to see if you can take some time off because 40 years is a long work week!
OK. So you are not a part of OWS,but you support what your "local" OWS are fighting for. Maybe you could enlighten me as to what your "local" Ows are fighting for, and seriously I am interested from a positive aspect.
As for my 40 yrs., it was spent in an R&D environment, I worked from the bottom up, not easy in the chemical industry without a degree. So researching is not a prob. I don't rely on you for research, but when you are adament about your stance you need to back it up. If you have facts, beliefs and a general goal I will not tell you that you are wrong, even if I might not want to travel the same path. So give me something to think about.
US...
Not satisfied with that "fair treatment on all levels" mission statement, I see. How about "a chicken in every pot" or "peace on Earth to men of good will" ???
After working 35 years myself, I guess I'm confused about the 'occupiers' too !
How about "good things come to those who wait" ???
Tony, I'm not big on slogans either. I, too, am confused by what the "occupiers" want. I think at the beginning the OWS had some goal. Be what it may so many other "radicals" have jumped on the bandwagon and have destroyed whatever the original OWS were trying to achieve. This is why I challenge those who support OWS. That's why I want to hear what the real aim is of the genuine OWS. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not, I would like to know what they are on about and where they want to go. Maybe they have a real good plan for the next 5-10 years, I don't know. It's time someone in their organization issued a real, achievable mission statement.
US...
I paid some attention to the protests in my state (CT) and it seems that when a public statement was made or a photograph ran in the paper or if a group of people were arrested...they were primarily state government union representatives or members of a group called "Connecticut Working Families'.
I know I am harping on it, but as of yet I have not seen or heard a clear-cut mission statement from the "occupy' people. I think, and I know I will, people will understand what the demonstrations are seeking to attain. Personally I think that a group of "ne'er-do-wells" have attached themselves to the genuine "occupiers" and thus have destroyed the image of the real demonstrators!
“Today what we’re trying to do is make sure that everyone knows that when you enforce a regulation against sleeping then you can’t dream of a better world, either … when you can’t sleep, you can’t dream," he said. "We’re going to make sure that we still have the opportunity to dream and that the people in this demonstration that have no place else to go are kept safe from the criminalization of homelessness that this order effectively creates.”
BULLSH*T!! There are homeless shelters you can go to and you don't have to squat on public property, make a mess of it and then say you need a place to "dream". I live just outside of DC and I've seen your little "show" up close and personal...bunch of hippie whiners. Enough already.
oilmanMD,
Thanks for representing the 1%. It's people like you that have made us members of the 99% that WERE Republicans shift over to the Libertarian party, Independent, or in some cases, even Democrat. I worked my entire life but am now unemployed, I don't collect unemployment or any public assistance, I live off of my savings and the money I make doing odd jobs. I raise my family, pay my bills, have no debt. I played by the rules but the REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS in Washington DC decided to change them on me without sending me a memo. If I was extremely wealthy, I guess I could have gotten a huge bailout, but I'm not so I have to do what I can to get by.
Mitt Rombama is no different than Barack. Ron Paul might be seen as "crazy" to the political scene in Washington, but what does that say about both parties in Washington? When you are "crazy" if you are not BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by Unions, Banks, Corporations, and Trial Lawyers. Both parties are corrupted with crooks and we are forced to choose between the guy that wants to send our jobs to Korea and the guy that wants to break up our company into little pieces. I don't see a winner here!!!!
It's funny how this current economy and political climate are causing me to agree with people I never agreed with before. I've always been a left-leaner, but I feel the same way you do about these camps. I still don't have a clue what these people are even protesting about. In the beginning it seemed like possibly legitimate protesting, but as time has marched on, these camps have degenerated into what appears to be a bunch of homeless drug addict types. I can't imagine what they think they are accomplishing. Do they really think their grubby little camps are going to change the entire capitalist structure? That's pretty sad and stupid if they do. They all need to find something more constructive to do.
Tia C, I'm with you. I've never been a republican, and in fact when OWS first began I thought this might be the start of a good thing. Why I ever thought these clownshoes would make a difference I don't know! Lesson learned!