Try again STexan; look at the hospitals in the major cities in Canada, as good as any in the U.S.A. for any patient, and much better for the poor. Try some rural hospitals in the U.S. on for size, and see what "outdated" means. The mother of my boss died while visiting relatives in West Virginia; the hospital waited until her intestines were necrotic (dead) before they treated her. Maybe your tag means "south of Texas."

Antitrust, I agree completely. For those who disagree, I would only ask that you do unto others as you would have done unto you. Give up your health coverage and see how it feels to be endlessly on the edge in what used to be the greatest nation on earth. If you are not willing to do that, please do not speak.

How dare taxpayers expect any of their money be spent on them ! Better spent in Iraq and Afganistan

Elisabeth - we still have problems, but they are the exception to the rule. If you describe your symptoms correctly, you get treated promptly.

DB Akron, what part of this don't you understand: "An estimated 700,000 American families file for bankruptcy every year because of medical debt, Potter said."

Smokin' something if you think Canada's health care system is backward. Or using some bunk source.

The problem isn't public or private in the US, either. Its that is private and doesn't work because prices are pumped to stupid levels for profit and the government is bribed to look the other way.

Capitalism isn't the problem. Its actually anti-capitalism at work, where large US pharmaceutical companies use money to push off cheaper generics just so they can continue to use an unimproved drug for as long as possible, before introducing their improved version.

Your Republicans are FOS if you think they have the answer. And your Democrats are just as bought off. Anybody pretends anything else and their either suckers or trying to make you into one

@stexan unchanged healthcare in this country will soon become so expensive that the majority of us will not be able to afford it. it will collapse under it's own weight and you won't even be able to get a '47 panel wagon to take you to the hospital. which would be pointless anyway because you'll sit outside in the bushes being unable to afford entry.

boy talk about rationing healthcare!

It would be interesting to compare this Canadian athletes unfortunate story with Natasha Richardson's story. Natasha was a United States citizen who passed away in Canada due to a ski injury. Did the Canadian government pay for her bills or did they bill her private U.S. insurance company.

DB Akron you are delusional

no HMO rights off unpaid bills

they have teams of lawyers who do nothing more than concentrate their efforts on squeezing people for every last cent they owe

Jenna,

US companies rarely respond to the Canadian hospitals' bills and the patient gets billed and then has to get their insurance company to pay. It is often a pain in the ass. The good part is that Canadian treatment, prescriptions and orthotics are a fraction of our cost. I have found European treatment to be even more reasonable. A couple of hundred bucks gets your arm or ankle set in a German Emergency ward along with a set of crutches to boot. The same US bill is between $1,500 and $2,500 if nothing more than an XRay is needed.

jkh

Ummm...this has nothing to do with the Tea Party or the GOP, so come back down to reality and discuss the facts here.

I have friends who live in countries that have Universal Health Coverage and the standard of care in those countries is a bit lacking. One of the worst cases I can site, was a European male who was in massive pain from HUGE kidney stones, but not bleeding to death and still able to urinate. The hospital sent him home with an economy-sized bag of pain killers. His surgery was postponed multiple times, as his case was not life-threatening. His procedure was bumped a total of 3 times for more pressing surgeries. It actually took him THREE full months to get the surgery he needed - in which time, he was unable to work and fired from his job.

I don't think you'll have too many people disagree with the fact that our system is broken and needs to be fixed, but universal coverage is probably not the way to do so.

Jenna; did you see the recent articles on what you give up (as far as rights) when you board a cruise ship. I have no clue what I'm covered for when I leave the USA.

Recently while trying to decide if my wife's accidental Life Insurance policy is better than a basic lesser plan - trying to see what and when she is covered requires far more investigation than what is written in the policy. I came to the conclusion that $50,000 of basic (sure thing) coverage at $40.00 a month was a better deal than leaving it up to the Insurance company to decide if her death was covered or not. That $250,000 B of A policy at $30.00 a month looks pretty good until you actually investigate what it really covers.

Why is it that whenever a topic like this comes up - the hillbillies always look to compare what we have to something else? How about we actually lead the way in something instead of the backward...yeah but, thinking.

My side is only 95% stupid and your side is 96% stupid - so my side is better....what the hell fell on these peoples heads to come up with this stuff?

Spider # 1.16 says

Why would someone participate in a highly risky sport, but not buy medical coverage? Cost??...I mean she obviously had plenty of money for equipment, training, travel, etc. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that'a just stupid.

In her own country of Canada she needed no insurance. Do you know if your health insurance is any good outside the US of A?

For those who say Canada and other countries' health care is "lacking" try having none at all.

The US actually ranks something like 37th in healthcare worldwide. It isn't the best in the world, and even when it IS good, it is still expensive! I had to be in the hospital for 2 weeks for my son's birth, (very high-risk pregnancy) and then he spent a month in the NICU. Thankfully we had insurance as the total bill would have been a quarter of a MILLION dollars! For 6 weeks. over $5K a DAY! It is BEYOND insane what the US healthcare system costs! My husband and I did the math once. With 2 pregnancies (both high-risk) total cost was over $350k, from start to finish for both pregnancies. And No, I didn't need fertility treatments or anything. $350K and I got one healthy little boy. Seems beyond insane. Even with the insurance covering 90% of it, the cost was still insane! No one can tell me that it wasn't extremely over-inflated pricing.

Just my 2 cents.... My girlfriends sister and her husband were on vacation in Europe, Rome to be exact, when she stepped awkwardly off of a curb, and fell and broke her leg. The total cost to her for the ambulance, the medical care, and the cast plus meds, ZERO DOLLARS!!!! It cost her absolutely nothing, except a day or so in the hospital, and NO, they did not bill her American insurance company.

I'd imagine that if you were going to do something risky in a foreign country, you'd make sure that either your insurance (or your country's insurance) would cover a potential hospital trip. But we don't always think these things through in advance. I'm actually a little surprised that Canadian citizens' universal coverages doesn't extend to when they're visiting foreign countries, but if there's travelers insurance ...

At any rate, it's a sad situation all around. Hopefully in the future people will be more aware of some of the consequences of their decisions if something goes wrong, and we won't end up with more Canadians with $300,000 in US medical bills. @_@

Health Care in America is just like our Government: The best money can buy you!!!

Darned socialists! Make 'em declare bankruptcy and give the money to the 1%.

@anti-trust proponent

Interesting how you bash the GOP about health care, but forgot to mention that the 1st comprehensive health care plan in America was enacted in 2006 in Massachusetts, by Republican governor Mitt Romney.

drainbramage, all kidney stones aren't the same. My brother had one, kept going to work, taking over the counter pain medicine and passed it. My sister had one and was doubled over in agony for a week and finally had to have surgery and had also developed an infection from it and ended up missing two weeks of work. Hers wasn't huge, it just wouldn't pass but still caused breathtaking debilitating pain.

Someone mentioned that their coverage covers them regardless of where they go. Here is some news. My mother WORKS for a major health insurance provider. She has coverage through this company.

She was on a cruise. And she slipped. She said she was ok, but her knee hurt. To cover there ass they took her to the medical department on the cruise which was like a mini hospital. Long story short. She got almost a $5000 bill for xray, bandages, crutches, ect. That they basically made her take. And the insurance would not cover it since it was considered and out of network doc. So your health care does not follow you. And this was on a US based cruise

Which he is still trying to live down BTW it was passed by the Democratic house and senate.

The reality is that if this accident had happened in Canada there is a pretty good chance that she would have been flown to the nearest US hospital for treatment. The socialized medicine system in Canada and Europe is not the panacea that people try and make it out to be. They deal with extremely long delays to see specialists as well as for any surgery that is considered elective. You can literally wait months to see a specialist and for non-critical surgeries. In addition to these problems, the extent of life saving efforts made are often determined at least in part by cost considerations. They are not as likely to go to the heroic efforts that US hospitals will to try and save someone, particularly if the person is going to require permanent care if they do make it. It can also effect things like the extent they will go to do something like save a crushed limb. They may decide that it makes more sense to just amputate the limb then expend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to save it. While things like this do also happen in the US because of insurance companies, it is much rarer. When you go the economy route for health care, too many decisions are made because of the money. You can also pretty much forget about ever getting a second opinion on anything. The socialized medicine systems in Canada and Europe may provide everyone with coverage, but it is not the same level of health care we get here in the US. Also, in England anyone who can afford it carries separate private insurance so that they do not have to use the public health system. This is because the care in the private hospitals is so far superior to what the masses get in the public system. Also, take a look at how many wealthy people from Europe as well as the rest of the world fly to the US for treatment when ever they have a serious health problem. Before you go touting the socialized medicine system in Canada and Europe, do some reading and talk to some of the people who have to use it!

JENNA

if the Canadian insurance system is so great why was she not covered in the U.S.? Why did the Canadian insurance not pay her bill? When I go abroad (I live in the U.S.) my medical coverage goes with me.

Sorry Jenna...It doesn't. Check again.

If the Canadian system is superior to the US, why in the hell did one of Canada's Premieres come to American for medical treatment? I also think that Liam Neeson may have a different view from what this article/writer espouses. "When the equivalent of a Governor can’t get a specific procedure, what chance does the average Canadian have?" ()

DB Akron: Hmm, actually your quote makes the Northern neighbor's system look better than it probably is. I'm not here to grade that or this health care systems, but if an UNIVERSAL SYSTEM is that "bad" that not having enough facilities/specialists (or not having them at all) inside AFFORDS to send the patients to the nearest neighbor's AVAILABLE facility, I would think twice before tearing it apart ... and what I want to have available for me.

While it must be great not to have to pay for your medical, the fact that the average wait to see a specialist in both Canada and the UK is 18+ months, negates any monetary consideration.

I am a little confused. I understood the total bill to be in excess of 500K. Canada's (I am assuming she had Canadian coverage) rates are much lower than than the US. Is the $200K still owed only the portion the Canadian reimbursement rates did not cover. If so then this is a rather more astounding disgrace to the US system.

For those who don't know is that 100% of all Canadians traveling abroad are covered but only at Canadian rates. Most however purchase supplementary insurance only to cover the higher costs in the US for exactly the same treatments. But don't take my word, just ask any Canadian.

A NON-ISSUE forwarded by msnbc AGAIN!!

Who in their right mind wants to be forced to pay for her health care when she's engaging in this sort of sport???!!!

(obviously those that wouldn't contribute to her health care costs in the first place...pathetic)

I remember reading about a Canadian with duo citizenship breaking a leg in Florida, his Canadian sponsored insurance paid for it. He worked in Canada but has a winter home in Florida and paid income tax to Canada. Also paid property tax in both countries.

Another person, an American, traveled to England, got sick with with a respiratory illness. The English universal health system paid almost all the cost.

With the high costs of insurance here, I wonder if something like a shared pay system could work for us, like a combination of Medicare and private insurance. In this country, most people in poverty has medicaid and has at least some help. Some in poverty, like singles has it a bit worse but they still have some coverage. The working poor (lower middle) has no chance unless their employer helps. Many middle class has it a bit better as a higher paying job, many but not all employers carry some kind of plan for them. They have a deductible and co-pays that are getting out of reach for many (if there is a sick family member especially). There is also the healthy young people who has to pay higher then necessary costs that puts hardships on them just for a yearly check-up if that for many years. A high deductibles would work for them for catastrophic care with preventative care coming with a lower deductible. One could choose a private company with high deductibles to cover catastrophic care and use a medicare type government program with higher co-pays for preventative and routine care.

Having the best health care in the world doesn't do a bit of good if one can't afford to access it without going bankrupt. I am just saying their are solutions. They all cost money and government intervention because the private insurance companies are only out to make money for them. Medicare cost 3% for administration. Private companies use 30% and more in administration costs.

Of course, we need to bring jobs back to the US from places like China , India and other places. That would bring more revenue to help pay for something like this and allow more to be able to buy the higher care insurance. There are solutions and no one can expect to get all they want or nothing.

You know, it just dawned on my, where is the replace plan of repeal and replace the Affordable Health Care Bill?

rednawt: you have made a very valid point in regards to shared cost. However, it only works in an Utopian society. A for profit agency is not designed to generate profit. So it will continuously look for methods to maximized margin. That process will include dumping off not-profitable customers in-favor of profitable customers.

In the case of the health insurnace, the for-profit insurance companies will continuously dump the aging population while picking up young male (18-40) insurers... They will pass the not profitable to the medicare... So why should Medicare take in only the sick and the high risk patients without the ability to spread the cost amongst the less risk insurers??? The answer is SINGLE PAYER (not simply Universal care).

Donna your comparison is stupid. Ask yourself this question. How much did that premier pay to have the procedure done in the US. You see.... most Americans don't have the equivalent of Liam Neeson or the premier of Canada's wealth or power. So.... trying to compare their stay at a hospital to the average person is quite stupid. You're pretty much saying that the US system is better because someone with a large amount of wealth can get better care. Most people DO NOT have a large amount of wealth and must declare bankruptcy to get even close to similar care. If they can't do that, they often die. We're ranked lower for care in this country because the care for the AVERAGE (key word here) person is @!$%# compared to the care for the AVERAGE person in other countries. But, the cost for that @!$%#ty care is higher than in other countries. We're not comparing the care if you have limitless wealth.

As one poster mentioned, a broken bone costing several grand if you need anything else done besides an x-ray done wont' affect you if you're a famous actor with several million dollars. For the average person, having it fixed at a facility that isn't ranked #1 in the world but having it cost you a 10th the amount of money is a much better deal.

thturd, I agree a single payer system would be best, but that is never going to happen. That would only happen in a Utopian society. Insurance companies would never allow this to happen. What would happen to all of their investments, some of what is actually supposed generate income to pay for services? I am not saying my plan is all it, but what I was proposing is something like that. Perhaps the private insurance could cover the healthy, while the healthy still contributes to "single payer" pool in the form of a slightly higher medicare tax since they will be needing catastrophic care sometime in their life, the employer could help with the benefit either in full or in part with the employee, but at a lesser cost since most employees would be in the healthier pool. They could also pay a slightly higher medicare tax. Government should also be allowed to negotiate service and drug cost as they do in many countries. Their is a lot to consider since pharmaceutical companies invest a lot of money in research, in place of a lower cost for the drugs, government could help more in research cost. But then that brings up more problems and fraud to be looked at. At any rate, nothing will happen with such a divided government and society that we have today. Something has to give. Their are solutions to every problem and every solution will have problems with it but we can come up with a truly American system that works for everyone and not only keep the great care most of us get, but better and have a healthier society to boot. A healthier society would be a more productive one that would also increase revenues to help pay for such a system.

Why do some people try to make political arguments out of tragedies? There's a time and place for everything and forums for these type arguments.

STexan --

If the healthcare system in the US had been ran be Libs the last 75 years, she'd have been driven by a 2003 Chevy ambulance with rusted out doors to a hospital 95 miles away that was built 50 years ago

Why do you want so badly to believe this? The U.S. health care is ranked 37th in the world, far behind all other developed countries.

As for the doctors, they are incapable of diagnosing anything that you couldn't diagnose yourself with the lab test results and a Merck Manual. If it's not obvious what is wrong, you are screwed, and unless you've got good insurance you're going to lose everything you own trying to find out what's wrong with you.

Then you'll be lucky if you don't end up spending $300 per month for medicine on top of it all. I've read dozens of posts from people who need, for example, Plavix to keep from having a heart attack, but can't afford the $200 per month price tag.

This country has become like a bunch of animals. It's like people don't even want a decent quality of life for anyone except the rich and lucky. Why should anyone else get health care or an education?

The nastiness is going to bring this country down. Just look at the economic situation. People can't spend money if they don't have money, and they can't have money unless they were able to spend a fortune for an MBA from a prestigious college.

You all complain about the divide between the rich and poor in this country, but that's apparently how most of you want it.

Some facts that have been hashed out above -

1. This girl was coming to the US to engage in a dangerous sport, and if she were responsible, she should have purchased health insurance ahead of time.

2. Medical care in rural Canada is about as bad as medical care in rural America. If you are in Toranto and have a heart attack, you are much more likely to survive than if you were in the middle of nowhere. Unfortunately, much more of Canada can be classified as "middle of nowhere" since the population density is much lower.

3. The US healthcare system is within reach for MOST of the population, but there are over 700,000 people each year who file for bankruptcy because they were uninsured and had an unexpected medical expense.

4. A lot of these are small business owners who cannot afford the outrageous costs of insuring themselves AND be able to stay in business, much less hire people (and insure them too). So many politicians talk about the need to support small business owners since they make up the majrity of the economy, but are unwilling to help them on this one thing that would do the most to help them financially. Why? Because politicians are bought off by the lobbyist of healthcare companies.

5. Who you believe regarding this topic depends mostly on whom you choice to get your newsaganda from - Fox GOP News or MSNLiberalBC.

If the healthcare system in the US had been ran be Libs the last 75 years...

STexan - You and DB AKron are too much with your portrayal of Canadian vs U.S. health care costs. Countries with single-payer, government regulated [or run] health care systems are not benighted places where neglected patients suffer early, unnecessary deaths in antiquated hospitals.

We spend far more per capita for health care here than in Canada, Japan, and most of Western Europe, yet our average life expectancy is slightly less.

In Japan, for instance, the average, annual expenditure for health care is $2,729. In the United States, it is $7,538. The average life span in Japan is 82.6 years, which ranks it first in the world. The average overall life span in the U.S.: 78.3 years, which is 36th, behind [among others] Canada (80.7), the United Kingdom (79.4) and Chile (78.6).

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OECD042111.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

What we have here, despite Obama's much ballyhooed and execrable health care reform, is run away costs, and all we are buying for that extra money are very highly compensated health care professionals.

...and DB Akron, this health care bill may have been paid, but only because the dead woman was an international celebrity. Under normal circumstances, middle class people may have their finances ruined by such an event [and the accompanying bills].

How anybody can defend such a cock-eyed arrangement is beyond me, as is how Obama, an allegedly intelligent man, could have so heavily botched national health care reform.

Why do some people try to make political arguments out of tragedies? There's a time and place for everything and forums for these type arguments.

AnnForTruth - well, if you read the headline, the story is not reporting this skier's death; this is relatively old news. It is centered on the huge medical bill generated by attempts to save her. In Truth, the story is about health care, health care costs and how they affect all of us. So this is the time, place and forum for these discussions.

Shame on the MSM for prostituting this young girl's death to push their agenda on universal coverage... Just a few questions....

• She knew she was going to be competing outside of Canada, where she wouldn't be covered. Why didn't SHE buy health insurance? Many of these top X-games athletes (and she was near the top) rake in a lot of money in endorsements, etc. Seems that many today want to NOT pay and then expect to be covered when something happens.
• How about the facility where she was competing? Why did they not have catastrophic coverage for the athletes that would be competing, or at least require the athletes to be covered? As a kid, I remember being required to have insurance to play junior high football, etc, and if we didn't have it, we were required to purchase a policy via the school.

I am sick and tired of the public and taxpayers being blamed whenever someone abdicates their personal responsibilities and then faces a hardship. This young lady wasn't even a US citizen. Why would we even consider for a SECOND that the taxpayers should foot the bill for her care?!

When it YOUR turn to be hospitalized for a MAJOR and CRITICAL medical problem (i.e., cancer, brain injury, gunshot, etc, etc, etc), and YOUR family has no way to pay the bills without "fundraising" -- THEN you can sit back and tell everyone how wonderful the "healthcare" system is in the USA.

But it is abundantly clear that the Number One Priority of the majority of people in the USA is MONEY. The acquiring of and hanging onto of MONEY. The folks down the street have a child dying of cancer? Too bad -- unless they "happen" to have MONEY.

I am sick and tired of the public and taxpayers being blamed whenever someone abdicates their personal responsibilities and then faces a hardship.

bruce - whatever the failings of dead skier, or the skiing facility where the accident occurred, the central fact you might note is that U.S. Health Care costs are far higher than in Canada, Japan, or any Western European countries, yet our life spans and general health is no better.

Yes, this woman should have made sure she was adequately insured. But you don't have to be an extreme skier to face massive medical bills. All that is necessary is to have a mishap on the highway, or to develop a malignant tumor, and, to be without health care insurance. With the cost of insurance outstripping mortgages for many people, this is a not uncommon predicament.

To repeat what I said above, we pay far more per capita for health care in this country than in any Western European country or in Canada, yet our average life span is actually shorter than in most of the countries in these regions.

So... what are we buying with all that money except very highly compensated health care professionals?

With medical costs rising at between 8 to 10% per year, how long will it be before the majority of Americans cannot afford to insure themselves?

Why is anybody with two grey cells sill functioning defending this asinine system?

Well this article is not that old and all ready hundreds of people posting there despair..

So why doesn't government, insurance and hospitals come together and do something to solve this problem,

why do they not care that you would have to destroy your entire families hard work just for one of them to get medical attention.

I would think universal care in the U.S. would only be for U.S. citizens, at least that's where our tax money should go. So her being Canadian would make her ineligible no matter the circumstances. My biggest question is, with all her sponsors and knowing that she competes abroad why didn't they insure her?

When conservatives start crying about how much worse Canadian and European healthcare is compared to ours, what I hear is, why should I wait longer so everybody else can go to the doctor too.

What they don't understand is that those of us that cannot afford even basic healthcare would not mind at all if the overall quality of healthcare had to come down a little so that all of us could receive it.

Just wait till the people who are kids now get old enough to take to the streets. If OWS pisses you off wait till we really start to push back! It's almost time to play cowboys and moneygrubbers and insurance companies and hospitals will be some of the first places getting ripped to shreds. YeeeeHaaawww! EAT THE RICH!!!!

spacedude - the location of the quote was there.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/article661794.ece

other issues

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

http://otherclub.blogspot.com/2009/08/intractable-canadian-health-care.html

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Solutions+Canadian+health+care+problems+left+provinces+Harper/5909832/story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/in-one-emergency-health-care-in-canada-lacked-high-tech-aspects-of-us-system/2011/07/28/gIQARwD8nI_story.html

http://www.patientpowernow.org/2009/07/waiting-19-hours-emergency-care-canada/

We are buying "highly compensated HC Professionals" with a 30% overhead to the insurance company execs and the shareholders. Single payor is the best solution but at the very least we should have a public option so those young and healthy can have a moral option for where to buy their health insurance (the sick and old will HAVE to buy from the public option as private will be too exspensive or they are denied) and this can lower the cost of said public option. After all insurance is supposed to spread the risk over a greater population so we need to grow the public option as big as possible.

Any one argueing for private insurance has been duped or owns stock in an insurance company.

Having been a business owner that has had employees in both the USA and Canada, and now being employed by a company based out Europe (I go there quite often and am close to my colleagues), take it from me, the USA has the BEST health-care system that Money CAN buy. Those that can afford it, do have access to some of the best here in the USA, the other 80+%, not so much.

The USA system also wastes way to much of the health care dollar on none patient care. Canada uses over 90% of their health care costs on patients, here in the USA (at least in Wisconsin) insurance companies are buying off politicians that expect them to use over 70% of their premiums for actual patient care. Folks that is $20 to $25 dollars of every $100 dollars that you spend for your health care going into someones pocket for the right to have a choice.

Personally my political leanings have always followed a conservative path, but actual life experience (I do get the chance to see how Joe Lunch Pail lives in other countries, for the last 30+years) has shown me that the USA has a terrible, predatory, market controlling, medical delivery system. AND we do not take care of our elderly unless they are wealthy.

It appears that most posters to my initial comment have failed to catch that I wasn't commenting on just the Canadian skier's cost of care. I was commenting on the real problem of US medical care as was the story......the cost of that care and the number of people who end up in bankruptcy because of those costs....simply because our insurance system does NOT cover all of the costs, and so often DENIES the claims that are filed. That is why we needed (and still need) universal health care in this country.

BTW, it sure did get the conversation going on this topic, and even with someone collapsing my comment there are still 233 votes for it so far.

@mthomas1a No health care bills are not just written off. My nephew at 16 suffered from what they thought was a possible stroke and 3 different bleeds on the brain. He spent a week in intensive care and has had to under go several other treatments and test. Of course this hit his family hard financially bill's that were barely 30 days over due were sent to collection even though the minimum payment worked out with the hospital was being paid monthly. What was their answer when they were questioned about the collection notices? The min payment agreeded to by the hospital was not high enough. And the kicker, he IS on insurance.

Thank God he has made a full recovery and since the sale of their vechical and their camper they were able to make a dent in the medical bills.

How anybody can defend such a cock-eyed arrangement is beyond me, as is how Obama, an allegedly intelligent man, could have so heavily botched national health care reform

hard to reform something that doesn't want to reform; in other words, the "very highly compensated health professionals" you refer to, along with the very highly paid people in the health insurance business and pharmaceutical companies, are all making a killing in the current system - which is why they have bought off members of Congress (see: Joe Lieberman) to insure that this "cock-eyed arrangement" will continue into perpetuity...

I still say, "If Canada's health care system is so great, Why do Canadians come to the US to get treatment?

In this argument of the private funding source vs public funding source for paying medical bills would change the problem of cost. Would not the cost of this person tragic accident still be the $300k or so regardless if she was on a private insurance or a public provide system? The only difference is the number people who would ultimately pay the bill. Would it have been a smaller select group of people in the person's select group, or would it have been 55% of the population of the United States. Why 55%, because want ever would be decided, it is highly unlikely that those below the poverity line would be required to pay their sure of the United States medical expenses.

I am just sick, to the point of exasperation, with the ignorant and self centered comments by the uneducated and selfish posters on the topic of health care in the U.S.! IF we have the right to life, as gauranteed in the United States Declaration of Independence, then if follows logically that access to reasonablly affordable medical care and treatment is part and parcel of that right. To say differently because of ANY profit motive or indeed any reason is UNAMERICAN and FALSE! It is our very health which gives us the ability to live, persue happiess and liberty. These RIGHTS are UNALIENABLE! They cannot be taken, transfered, surrendered, or sold, by definition!

robbopaloobop--you are correct--the primary drivers of costs in healthcare in this country are insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies--not the doctors or other health care professionals. In the words of one of the doctors (specialist) I worked for "the days of big money in medicine [for doctors] are over." And that was 20 years ago! The cost of malpractice insurance, especially for the specialties, is beyond belief! It is the insurance companies and pharmaceutical company executives that make the killer salaries--not the docs! The promotion of the idea that it is the docs is just a smokescreen to distract people from the real culprits...insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

Selfish vs. Selfless here. That's what is going on. And like most debates, nobody wants answers. They just want to B!tch.

If people could stop being simpering fanbois of one party or the other, they'd solve the problem at the Federal level. Hell, some states have solved insurance problems at the state level. You can have EITHER a government healthcare system that works, or a private system that works. But people are so whiney that they don't bother to think of ways that it could work. They whine about Canada, and Big Brother, and all that other nonsense.

A private system would work, but sorry, it would have to be regulated. And that's because, waa, waa, if you have tons of money and healthcare cost isn't a problem for you, you are in the minority. Since the majority of people not receiving healthcare would cause a national breakdown, the minority gets to shut up. NOT everyone is going to get the bestest everest care ever. Its just not going to happen in any system. But its at the point where corporations are bleeding huge dollars to pay for health care benefits, and worse, if they can kick someone off the healthcare (imagine no COBRA at least?) when you have to buy it on your own, you actually realize how expensive it is. That is wrong, given most people don't spend the majoriy of their lives sick or injured, and when they get sick or injured, the majority do not need incredibly expensive care.

So, I clicked on this thinking I'd write my opinion about this whole thing.

But I started reading the comments. Wow. What a bunch of childish idiots. Is anyone on this page older than 7?

There's nothing wrong with health care in the US.

If you don't believe that, just look at the numbers.

For a 15 minute surgery to implant ear tubes, the doctor charges the insurance company $13,000 per ear for a total bill of $26,000. That equates to - not an hourly rate - not a rate per minute... but a rate PER SECOND of $28.89. I'd love to get paid $100 just for passing gas. :p

Now... let's take a look at the math of how much the doctor actually got paid. The bill was submitted to Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield. The payment was $1,600. So, the doctor received 6.2% (I'm rounding favorably) of the total charges in payment - and the bill is considered paid in full. Man... can I get the insurance companies to negotiate my cable bill? I'd love to pay 6.2% of $120 and consider the bill paid in full. I also pay 6.2% for social security benefits that I'll never receive. Maybe, the "wither on the vine" approach of the Republicans will finally work and I'll get that 6.2% back to use it for the newest "capitalistic flavor of the month".

And don't feel bad for the doctor. They're writing off the remaining 93.8% as a "business loss" for their taxes.

Oh wait. You don't have health insurance? Well, there's a no cost solution for you! Just don't get the surgery. It may be inconvenient to watch your son writhe in agony because his ears are constantly infected, but at least you can put bread on the table. And heck - pain is good for him.

I hope every single #$&*@$ Republican who cries and whines about how socialized healthcare is "un-American" rots in fire and brimstone and becomes Satan's concubine. When one of two parents is employed SOLELY to pay for health insurance for the family, there's something seriously wrong with our system.

The solution is simple, sports competitors who come from countries with universal health care, should take out a short term health care policy for the duration of their competition while in the US, OR pay for their treatment out of pocket if they choose to go without.

Cost aside, a good way to get a snapshot of a country's healthcare is to look at the infant mortality rate. Currently, the US is ranked 46 in the world, with 6.06 deaths per 1000 live births. Not too bad, especially when compared with, say, Angola. However, look at who on the chart beats us; Canada, the UK, Germany, Sweden, France, and Cuba. Cuba? That's right, I said Cuba. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself, but these countries are apparently doing something right.

I'm with Spencer, soooooo tired of the "repubs and libs" B.S.. If you asked half these people why the chicken crossed the road, they would start bitching about Obama and Bush.

My 2 cents, why was she allowed to participate in this sport without health care? Not trying to be insensitive but, who did they think would pay for their care should something happen?

hardtostarboard,

RE: your post #1.74

That is TRUE NOW! It is a fact that insurance companies, some located in the U.S., offer health, life, and disability insurance for persons who travel. Many insurance policies, of all types, DO NOT cover an individual while traveling outside of his/her country of citizenship or they have defined limits on coverage to specific geographical locals. However, you can purchase coverage when traveling outside of your country's borders. I am not aware of the premium costs but the policy is in effect for a specified duration of time. The coverage is tailored to the insured's wishes, within specified options available.

one of the reasons for the bill is this is the US. even if we had socialist medical care she was a Canadian citizen not a US citizen so there still would have been a bill.

I wish her family the best and hope they can have peace.

Let me see if I got this right: first this woman is 29 years old, second she is a professional athlete, third she was not denied medical care, fourth she was a Canadian citizen and lastly the medical providers want to recover their expenses and this points to a shortcoming exactly how?

I doubt that visitors would need to purchase insurance. The UK has universal health care (as does Canada), yet American visitors aren't required to purchase insurance there. Don't forget ... Americans don't have to buy insurance, either, under the mandate. But, if they don't, they pay more in taxes (and visitors don't file US tax returns).

As it is now, there is "travel" health insurance for people coming here from outside the country. It is totally optional, but anybody who comes here for a visit and doesn't have it should have their heads examined... back home where they can afford that mental health examination.

We need universal health care in America. Aren't we the "richest" country in the world, or is that just campaign slogans?

Hardworking Dude............your insurance may or may not cover you when you our out of the USA..........better check before its too late if you do plan to travel...........many insurance policies will not cover certain things out of the country.........and God help you and your heirs if they need to fly you somewhere for treatment.

HDude,

You can bet your ass if you need medical care elsewhere getting your US insurance to pay for it will be hell. My daughter was helicoptered from the luge run in Whistler while sliding for the US Jr National team and it took 9 months of total aggravation to get Personal Choice to pay the Canadian hospital bill which was about 1/5 of what a US bill would be for the same services. While traveling in Europe (ie Germany) it is far less painful to pay the $200 emergency room bill to get a bone set, xrays and crutches than to try to get any US carrier to pay for it. When traveling You are nuts if you don't use a supplemental travel insurance plan. The article is incorrect Canadian hospitals are not free to foreign citizens any more than US ones it's just that the bill is a hell of a lot less.

jkh

Any Canadian traveling in the USA is at risk. Canadian medical does not cover them out side of Canada. Those who are going to spend some time here buy temp. ins. so they can be covered.

She likely would have been lifted to the USA for treatment anyway. The Canadian hospitals have no intensive care beds available for her type of injuries. So Canada sends them here. Thing is, when they do that, the patient is covered by Canadian ins. If they come on their own - out of luck, no ins.

Probably because she was in a high risk field. I expect race car drivers would need different coverage as well.

Barry-NJ you are sooooo wrong about people here on a VISA not paying taxes. You aren't required to have a VISA just to visit the US, but you must have a one to remain for an extended period of time and to qualify for an extended stay VISA a job is often times required. Job means money and if you earn money in the US you must file US tax returns. The problem with people here on a VISA might not remain long enough for the penalty for not having health insurance to catch up to them. The federal mandate is going to be full of holes and I really don't see it eliminating the problem of millions of uninsured Americans.

Very true Jim. We have what is considered very good health insurance coverage but ALWAYS purchase supplemental travel insurance when traveling outside the country. The hassles of attempting to get U.S. companies to pay are not worth the few dollars we pay for the travel insurance.

The nice thing is IF your U.S. insurance pays, your travel insurance becomes "supplemental" and will almost always pick up the uncovered expenses (deductible, etc.). Win-win with peace of mind. So worth it!

Barry, you would be incorrect. I brought my husband over to the US, and I also relocated to the UK to live for awhile too, so I know a bit more than the average Joe the Plumber about visas.

For a visitor from, say, the UK to come here without travel insurance would be insane. The UK's NHS does not cover UK citizens while they are visiting here. Just as, very rarely, will your US insurance policy cover you in the UK. If you get sick, or need emergency treatment in the UK, you will be treated and you will be billed. If you find your private/group policy will not pay, then you will be responsible for the bill - hence the need for travel insurance. But you could expect the bill to be much lower than what a US hospital would charge you. This is why you should always, always buy travel insurance. If you die outside the US, do you have any idea how much it costs to repatriate your body back to be buried?! It's a heck of a lot more than a plane ticket.

And just in case you think to skip out on your bill completely, don't expect to travel to the UK again until you pay up. They have started cracking down on NHS abusers and will deny you immigration benefits (and allowing you into the country is a benefit) and won't let you enter.

A visitor, in the tourist sense, does not pay US taxes generally speaking. However, you are conflating what 'resident' means to the IRS and what it means to USCIS. They are two completely different animals. It would be entirely possible for the IRS to consider a visitor, who has no legal status in the US, resident for tax purposes, if they meet the criteria.

I don't understand if Canada's Healthcare is so great for their citizens, why did they not pay for her care? Also, if she and her family can afford competitive skiing, why are you not affording travel health insurance? I certainly do while I travel overseas.

Being one who lived in Canada fror 4 years while attending University, I did not get 'Canadian Healthcare'. I had to pay for my insurance in Canada and it was not inexpensive. I preferred to drive into the States anyhow, being I received much better care.

I have experience Canadian health not only as a patient but also as a nursing student in Canada and I would much rather be a patient and a nurse here in the states. I believe in general, there is always the outlayers, Americans have more options and receive much better care in the States. If this was not true, why are so many Canadian doctors and nurses in America practicing and why do so many Canadians seek care in the US? Lastly, Canadians about 5 years ago, voted to have the option private insurance, so they could make more choices about their healthcare. It is far from perfect.

Much of our problem with American Healthcare is people oft for designer clothes, cable TV, brand new cars, etc over making insurance a priority. I see it all the time. I have women who will come in to our hospital with tatoos, fake nails, designer purses and clothes, etc and are on Medical. We are paying healthcare to many people, yet they take no responsiblity in the financing of this care. I don't mind helping the poor, but they need to make some sacrifices, as I do to pay for my healthcare. We also need to make changes to our tort laws. As a nurse midwfe, malpractice each year I practice becomes overwhelming to pay for. It's interesting how I have to pay for this insurance, yet people receiving healthcare, do not have to pay for their part of the care.

Don't think for a second that this excellent medical plan they have in Canada isn't paid for by someone, IT IS, all the working people, so the ones that are not paying will still be covered. Sound anything like Obama-care? It should, it's the same socialist idea....make the ones that work pay for everyone. Also called "economic fairness" among other things.

Read some of the writings by Karl Marx and see how familiar this all sounds. Know who he is? Wake up people......

Heidi,

Are you not worried about letting your employers and patients know you are the product of a substandard healthcare system (I assume you consider your Canadian nursing training part of your qualifications) ?

A NON-ISSUE forwarded by msnbc AGAIN!!

Who in their right mind wants to be forced to pay for her health care when she's engaging in this sort of sport???!!!

(obviously those that wouldn't contribute to her health care costs in the first place...pathetic)

Maurice...

I never mentioned that substandard care was an issue. The government mandating the care is the issue. I have been a leader in my field. Waiting years to have a critical surgery does not sound like great care, no matter how 'cheap' it may be. It is not because the nursing is poor, it is the government having a hand in something they have no qualifications for. I believe I am intelligent enough to realize where the best care can be received and where I can provide the best care possible for my patients.

oldmanyoungeyes

100% false. The only part not covered is either elective or cosmetic surgery and the differential for the higher costs in the US for exactly the same treatments. The rest of your uninformed comments are just as ludicrous.

btw weird moniker.. an old man with "eyes" for the young ????

justoneguy - That is the first rational thing I have read so far in this thread! I see no reason why my tax dollars should be subsidizing health care for cases like this. Why don't I just subsidize life insurance for chain smokers while I am at it? They don't call them X Games for nothing - it is a high risk sport, and athletes know what they are signing up for. If they don't purchase insurance to protect against these high-cost events, even if only while traveling, then they (or their families) have to pay the bills like everyone else. That's life.

Karl Marx?? What a loonatic! The first national health care program suggested in the US, was suggested by Teddy Roosevelt, 110 years ago. Its not communistic, or subversive. Its just common sense. The rich don't ride on better roads here. Why should they get better health care? Huh, Ken?

Heidi,

Did you not learn in your four years that in fact Canadians traveling in the US are covered for non elective medical costs but only to the extent of the Canadian rates ? The supplementary travel insurance is to cover the higher costs that a US practitioner such as yourself would charge for the identical service. This fee differential is also the no 1 reason Canadian doctors and nurses migrate to the more lucrative healthcare market. Ironically it is this flight of talent that is in part responsible for the shortage of doctors and resulting in longer waits.

I agree that something has to be done with the costs involved in health care. However government run insurance isn't the way. All one has to do is look at the european countries who have had it for a number of years and see the financial troubles it's causing them. I haven't read up on it in a few months, but the last I did see France was talking about cutting what procedures they would pay for and many people were buying private supplemental insurance to cover what the government wouldn't.

Paul,

Your OK with doing away with the Government run VA,Medicare,Medicaid, SCHIP.. ?

As to costs :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_health_expenditure_per_capita,_US_Dollars_PPP.png

Never fails... Stingy people always talk the talk but when they get sick or injured the walk becomes a whole different story. You hate social security fine burn your social security checks in protest. You hate entitlements, don't take advantage of them in protest. Yea... Thought so. Put congress on SSI and watch how fast it gets fixed and goes from being called a burden to the tax payers to being a national treasure. Members of congress enjoy free health care. over 50 paid holidays, 3 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days and outrageous pensions. They all voted unanimously for these benefits whether they have a D an R or an I by their names so why the hell do we have to suffer because we are not as rich as they are? Take away their entitlements and then you can talk about taking away the hard working people's entitlements. Anyone on here who isn't making .25 mil or better and is huffing and puffing about this newsvine is a goat blowing idiot! Again burn your checks and cards and STFU about mine.

My sources: BC Ministry of Health Canada. Anybody have a better source ?

Out of Country Emergency Medical Care

The cost of medical care outside Canada can be much higher than the amounts payable by MSP and extended health care plans. For complete protection, additional medical insurance should be purchased from a private insurance company, even if you only plan to leave the country for a day. Check the exclusions and limitations of your private insurance policy carefully to ensure that the policy meets your personal needs.

If you have extended health benefits through your employer you should contact them to determine the policy provisions prior to purchasing additional medical insurance.

When you receive medical services outside Canada (or in some instances outside B.C.), you will need to claim reimbursement from MSP using an Out of Country Claim Form. The completed form should be returned with:

• an itemized account, including the dates of service and details of services performed, and
• either the unpaid bills or the original receipts if the bills have been paid.

Note: Out of Country claims must be submitted within 90 days of the date of service. In-patient hospital claims (and any associated medical claims) must be submitted within six months of discharge.

Payment for physician services will be issued in Canadian funds only and will be paid at the same rate that would have been paid if the services were received in B.C.

Maurice... Great posts. I would like to see the source of these other commentators but I am pretty sure it would come from a propagated source as they usually do. Cheers mate.

Heidi - You consider yourself intelligent. I beg to differ.

Three things:

First -- Canadians have healthcare coverage -- It's not mandated. It's universal -- all Canadians covered.

Second - Waiting years to have a critical surgery - Bu||@!$%#. Non-critical/Elective surgery may have wait times definitely not 'years' - but critical -- you're talking out your arse.

Third - "it is the government having a hand in something they have no qualifications for." That's bu||@!$%# too as Canadians pick their own doctors and treatment is between the doctor and the patient. There is no fighting on the phone lying in a bed with insurance companies or government. Insurance companies only come into play for travel insurance or your employer may offer an insurance package which covers portions of scripts, etc.

Seems you're like a trained seal spewing the old BS Rethug talking points. You a nurse and having been in Canada -- I call them like I see them -- Bu||@!$%#.

Hardworking Dude at #2.3 - Well how do you like that, y'all just some kinda special ain't cha? So, since you are defining character for all of us please provide your carrier name, this way I can switch to your policy for that 100% full coverage whereever I go in the world. Boy, I thought I had good coverage that pays 90% but you've found a group I didn't know about.

Does your policy tell you what to do if they go belly up after your family member has been in a out of state hospital and in a coma for two months and your insurance company decides to file bankruptcy after only being in business in your state for 9 months and they were backed by the Fed. and State. Let's not forget the fact that they carried on in business in several other states but those "were different companies" because they were in another state! Said family member recovers but now what, you owe over $340,00 give or take. So yeah, I would like to know the name of this company you belong to. BTW - Anytime my family has came to visit from another country they have always purchased travelers insurance and you would do well to remember that others have said the same thing.

In closing, I think we're all looking for enlightenment from an expert like you. I know I am, who knows I might even be able to cut my premium also. Maybe I can drop the supplemental I am carrying to fill in those little gaps that the Great Policies don't tell you about. Or maybe your that 1% we keep hearing about and your just killing time and jerking the little folks chain. Also, the article did mention the crushing debt and uncertainties her family faced because of not having insurance, it was fans and people with respect for her that donated the money thank goodness.

You people don't get it! You could lose your house and everything you own because of medical problems. Whether it be accidental or whatever, even if you have for profit health insurance. Unless your part of the super rich. Everybody talks about Canada and if they would be covered traveling. That's not the point here. Do you get it?

Ken MTX

"Don't think for a second that this excellent medical plan they have in Canada isn't paid for by someone, IT IS, all the working people, so the ones that are not paying will still be covered. Sound anything like Obama-care? It should, it's the same socialist idea....make the ones that work pay for everyone. Also called "economic fairness" among other things."

No 'Brilliant Wonder' (and I don't mean that in a complimentary way) -- you like many are wrong when you speak of Canadian healthcare or healthcare in any country outside the U.S.

It is not only the 'working' that pay for healthcare. The non-working also pay for healthcare. It is calculated on your income tax forms at a percentage formula which I do not recall. So, it's not the 'working' paying for everyone else.

Any time the subject of healthcare in other countries comes up on a site, it's guaranteed many of the comments are the same as the old Bu||sh*t Rethug talking points. It's been the same old crap spewed for years.

"No one in Canada finds themselves in that predicament, nor do they face losing their homes as many Americans do when they become critically ill or suffer an injury..."

An estimated 700,000 American families file for bankruptcy every year because of medical debt, Potter said.

In spite of these facts, the Republican Party's "answer" to America's health care crises is to deny that we have a health care insurance crises and to offer flawed "solutions" to covering our citizens.

So far, the GOP has tried to hoodwink us with:

- Inadequate Medicare Vouchers

- Funding cuts to Medicaid

- Falsely characterizing universal health care coverage as non-democratic

- Ensuring that the Beltway crowd has life-time health insurance coverage

- And marinating any deadly "rue" that will prevent all Americans from receiving health care coverage..

On this country, the GOP and its Reactionary subset (the Tea Party) will only drop more sick and suffering people on our streets.

Vote Democratic in November 2012!

Obamacare puts the majority of the cost of the system on top of the shoulders of the very group it claims doesn't get insurance, 18 to 30. At the same time that group can be covered by their parents till 26 unless the parents are military. This group, 18 to 30 was the hardest hit in the Great Recession, losing jobs, unable to pay for school, can't find jobs. Why have a group of essentially poor people finance something they can't afford? How do I pay for healthcare when I can't even find a full time job? The Democrats and the Republicans both suck.

Hi Karri:

I read your article about Sarah Burke with great interest and "yes" there is no question that innocent people are dying because of lack of universal insurance in the US. What surprises me is that her surgery was not performed because of lack of funds.

I had a problem and needed surgery as I was 1 hour away from dying. I had the best care at Dixie Hospital in Saint George which is part of the Utah Inter mountain Health Care Network. Because of my lack of personal funds my hospital bill and surgical bill were reduced by 95%. They even asked me if this reduction was acceptable.

I am not writing this because of Mit Romney as I am not planning to vote for him. Even though I currently live in Nevada and many other States before that, I find it very surprising that what you are reporting actually occurred in Utah, as they tend to care for people in distress more than any other State in the union. I can only surmise that she was not a US citizen.

My thoughts are with her family and friends.

After Burke's crash while training on the Eagle Superpipe at Park City Mountain Resort in Utah on Jan 10, doctors fought to save her for nine days.

I thought Willard was the self-proclaimed savior of Salt Lake City Winter Olympics ... because Romney saw an opportunity in the Olympics after losing his bid for the Senate in Massachusetts ...

Seems to me Willard would pander Burkes death as an epic campaign against Obamacare which is different from Romneycare ... wait ... did Romney make any contributions to the Save Sarah Burke fundraiser ?

He probably said screw-it since she was going to *Go Home and Die* anyway because Burke only had a Paul Ryan right-wing social-engineering Plan voucher ...

to help her grieving family avert bankruptcy — was viewed by some Canadians and U.S. observers as a condemnation of the U.S. health care system.

And yet we have many ignorant Americans that want to continue with "Business as usual", and promote the agenda of Republicans like Mitt Romney. He wants to run the country as a business...

You people don't get it.....

Don't think for a second that this excellent medical plan they have in Canada isn't paid for by someone, IT IS, all the working people, so the ones that are not paying will still be covered. Sound anything like Obama-care? It should, it's the same socialist idea....make the ones that work pay for everyone. Also called "economic fairness" among other things.

And this rhetoric, of course, always spewed by those who have no concept of what it is to be stuck with a medical bill. Usually the people that write these comments change their minds when something happens to them. Then they ask for "help".

People want to have the best country in the world...paying no taxes. We have had that. We owe China trillions of dollars. Wake up and smell the coffee...We either make things more fair for all people, or the whole country keeps going down.

WE ALL have to pay taxes, ESPECIALLY THE 1% like Mitt Romney. Bring your money back from the Cayman Islands and the Swiss banks, and pay your DUE taxes, instead of throwing BS rhetoric!!!!!!!

Healthy people is the best business that a nation can have!!!!

I used to work in health insurance in the USA. I worked in the department that took the calls from doctors and hospitals about getting paid. It depends on what medical treatment, etc. on if your bill is paid or not. Often the insurance companies barter to pay as little as possible and if the nurses and doctors that work for the insurance company feel the procedure or treatment is not necessary or could have waited until they got back to the USA, then it wasn't paid by the insurance company.

They also try to barter down the price they pay too. Even if your insurance pays for some of your expense overseas, it probably doesn't pay as much as you would want or need.

The prices for medical care are bloated here in the USA too. Doctors and hospitals make lots of money and yes some patients are turned away. A man died of a heat stroke sitting outside a hospital in my city which has about 10 major hospitals. 5 of those hospitals were in a block of where the man died.

The young man's father called 911 to get the hospital to accept him after EMS checked him out, but it was too late by then.

USA medical care is probably the same as any place you go that is modern. There are good hospitals/doctors and bad ones. But the prices in the USA are too high.

I believe if it wasn't so bloated we would all be healthier and happier. Many people die because they cannot afford even a doctor visit to check their health each year in the USA. When it's between a roof over your head and food in your stomach over health insurance or medical bills....which would you choose? It's a shame that more Americans don't see how third-world the health industry makes us look here.

We have US-Marines that are required to take an oath to help those who cannot help themselves,

they live their lives with Honor. It is NOT a question of IF we want to help each other at the deepest

core of who we are as US-citizens.

We do have a problem with "punishing people" and "expecting people" to stand on their own two

feet, when in fact they may need time to Heal first. Having lived in Canada for 6 years, I was exposed

to their health care system, had to use it a couple of times and was well aware from the 1st day that I

arrived their that they wanted to "be sure" that I was healthy and able bodied. I have never gotten

that from the US-Government.

Swimming, playing badminton, skiing, sharing relaxed times with many friends was the norm in

Canada. Coming back to the USA, I was recently exposed to a Manager pounding his fists on the

table and a whole lot of self-serving politics. Work is not work to enjoy Life here, it is 24-7 and by god

you better do what I say "or else" (punishment). Don't sit here and tell me about how bad "socialism"

is. They have laws to LIMIT the amount lawyers can charge, the same with a National Healthcare

System. Insurance has to get approval for "rate hikes". Imagine that, the government protecting the

people. Pretty wild to think that the US-Gov would stand up for the US-People? eh... Guess what

else they learned NOT to do in Canada, fill the prisons to overfilling, instead they do things to work to

bring these people back into the social structures. When people fail on their own, others keep trying

to help. Sometimes students need help beyond school, who's here doing anything about that in the

USA? We've got many programs, if you can afford it.

For the healthcare, I started out a in the USA with a dentist who has a great practice. He lost a tool in

my tooth, which is still there after 7 months. I still do not have a cap or crown on all the tooth that he

removed, because he "had a plan". Much of what he did, I did not know about until AFTER he started

working on my teeth. 7 months later and a new dentist, a new orthodontist and much other that had

me spending as much as $3000 to $4000 per month and the work is NOT done. I am NOT an ATM

machine. The dental care I received in Canada was MORE than adequate but not violating me as

much as the American system is. Most Americans want to hire a lawyer and sue the dentist. I am

going to sort through all the details, then report this guy to the American Dental Association and also

the NY State Health Board, because he should NOT be doing some things he's doing as a dentist, he's

getting too old to keep the pace. I just hope his wife's cancer hasn't drained his bank account and

required him to sell his house (or many homes) so that he CAN retire.

Healthcare is NOT insurance care. Healthcare is for the person to be better physically, mentally,

emotionally and spiritually. By the way, they still pray in Canadian schools and PUBLIC schools include

Catholic and Protestant names and beliefs in their programs. Insurance is FORCED continuity by a

group of people that want to use your money for investments. It would be cheaper to pay some Mafia

group to protect you and your rights than to keep paying for insurance (Auto, Home, Health, Life,

Death, Sudden Death, Catastrophic Care, etc).

Self-serving politics solves nothing. I've been watching it happening for many years here in the USA.

You folks that want to beat up on others who are only doing what US-Marines do as a whole society

should get off your bully pulpits and grow up and accept the responsibility of caring for others. Many

aging people who build this countries roads, bridges, factories, cities, towns and other are suffering

in a major way and we incarcerate them in Nursing Homes and other Hospice Care facilities to the tune

of $9000 per month. Most of these people don't even make that in a YEAR. I would say the US

Med/Pharm/Bio care system is out of whack, you can even ask a kid what they feel after they leave the

prisons we've put gramma and grampa in.

I recently sat next to a AfrAm great great gramma while getting my car serviced. She was beautiful,

bright and just happy to be alive. IN our conversation she explained her long and loving career as a

nurse. She quit, when she started to be told that she had to do procedure "such and thus" because

the hospital was "losing money".

Put your money on the table and give it to somebody else, that's all we're doing with the

US-Healthcare system. From the recent numbers I've seen, the people GETTING the actual

Healthcare are dying at a faster rate than those who cannot afford it. Interesting statistic!!

Welcome to USA,

please spend,

please provide us with your dollars,

your house,

your future and

everything else

we can take from you.

Welcome... [pretty sad folks, pretty sad if this is best you can do :-( ]

if the Canadian insurance system is so great why was she not covered in the U.S.? Why did the Canadian insurance not pay her bill? When I go abroad (I live in the U.S.) my medical coverage goes with me.

Jenna,

Navy Patriot is right. When a US national with healthcare insurance leaves US borders they are out-of-network, just like Canadians. Canadians have the oportunity to purchase out-of-network healthcare insurance while traveling abroad (to the US in this case). This unfortunate skier failed to purchase temporary coverage while abroad. She assumed the risk herself. Sadly, she died out-of-network and left the medical bills to her family.

IRespond, I think you should go back and look at those statements again. You've been drinking the swill the media's been feeding you to much. First of all Mitt Romney has paid taxes on all of his investment income regardless of whether it was made in the Cayman Islands or any other place. Second, I'll guarantee you Mitt Romney's Marginal tax rate is no lower than yours and probably a heck of lot higher. In fact, unless you're a closet 1%er, I wouldn't be surprised if his effective income tax rate is higher than yours. You people who continually spew vitriol on these boards are no better than the politicians you claim to despise so much.

If you are a U.S. Citizen and find yourself at a hospital in Canada, YOU WILL GET A BILL FOR YOUR CARE!! She was injured in the U.S. and given care in the U.S., she got a bill from the U.S. Hospital. If she had purchased Health Care and had Canada's Universal Health Care, her bill would have been lower. She chose to depend completely on Canada's Universal Coverage, which is Universal only in Canada. If the U.S. Health Care System is so bad, why does everyone from Canada, Europe and the Illegals come here for treatment. You are responsible for your own health, others should not have to pay for your choice to spend your money on something else other than your own and your families health care!!! TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF AND GROW-UP!!

Adam-2143208,

You're right, Romney's marginal tax rate on earned income is probably at the max rate. However, the bulk of his income is "unearned" which by law is taxed at a reduced (Capital Gains) rate (15%). If the Capital Gains loophole is eliminated, then Romney's taxes skyrocket. This is true for most people earning (or unearning in this case) over $1 million a year. This revenue is huge. It would close the national deficit quickly and painlessly for most Americans. This is the new Obama plan (sometimes known as the Warren Buffet tax plan).

The "conservative" Heritage Foundation supported an individual health care mandate from 1989 until "liberal" Barack Obama proposed actually implementing it. It seems that "conservatives" have only one real principle when it comes to health care - Anything But Obama.

@KyEngineer - I agree. Very well stated.

The thing is, we say people visiting our country don't pay taxes. They do. Sales taxes, taxes on their hotel, car rental, etc. etc. etc. To get a VISA they pay a hefty price. Americans pay more for the same procedures, drugs, medical treatments than most of the world. The reason other countries don't pay all the medical bills for their citizens in our country is they won't pay the bloated part of our bills. They will pay the standard rate. The same for any American insurance company that might pay for your medical expenses when you travel. They will pay the minimum rate or not at all.

That's how they make their money. Charge a lot for insurance and pay as little as they can get by with. I worked in the system and often your doctors and hospitals have to submit revised bills to get the insurance companies to pay anything at all. It shouldn't be that one doctor or hospital charges a lot more than any other. The insurance companies will only pay what they deem necessary. That's how you end up with so much left to pay. If you feel like fighting it, you might be able to get the doctors and hospitals to drop the padded charges, but is it worth the hassle. They are betting it's not worth the hassle and make more money that way.

I am an American that lives in Germany, and I pay 45 EUROs to see a doctor, if she writes me a prescription, I go pick it up, and pay cash (nothing has ever been above 30 EUROs).

I pay full price for everything because I DO NOT have German insurance like the rest of the citizens (which pays for them), which is why I pay cash. I once had my appendix removed, it was about 2,000 EURO for everything including the 3 days I spent in the hospital.

I can go to whichever doctor I want, and the prices are all about the same. I am seen the same day, or the next.

I have real American insurance, but really don't need it because for 99% of the time, I could afford any treatment I would need.

This isn't because their healthcare sucks, it isn't because I'm rich, it's because they have control over what money is allowed to be made off of sick people. I'm sure most doctors here don't have 3 houses, and 2 Ferraris, but they make a decent living. They have drug companies, but they don't get to charge 20,000 times profit for their drugs (and yet somehow they can still do R&D). Band-Aids don't cost $30. They properly regulate the whole thing, and that keeps the costs down, and it makes health care affordable for everyone (including visiting foreigners).

The problem with America's healthcare is greed. You don't become a millionaire by giving people a fair deal, you become one by giving them the worst deal they will take. School is paid for by the state here, and therefore no $400,000 tuition to pay off. In the states it's all about greed, from the school charging way too much, to the doctor charging way to much, to the drug companies, to the hospitals, all in the name of more money. When did our national sport become "Making the most money"?

They are people making the most money they can from someone not doing so well, that usually has no other choice but to agree to pay if they want to live or at least feel better. Way to go American heathcare industry.

We can afford to waste trillions of dollars on pointless wars lasting a decade, but we can't afford a universal health coverage - this is America in 21st century... shameless scam of the rich, for the rich.

If the one-size-fits-all Canadian healthcare system is so darn wonderful, then why do I hear from my Canadian friends that it takes 6-8 weeks to get something like an MRI. Since the MRI isn't forthcoming quickly, patients are often sent home from the hospital to await an MRI so specialists can make a diagnosis. Extreme pain and possible permanent damage in the meantime? Tuff luck!!!

Be careful what you wish for!!!

"She was to freeskiing what Wayne Gretzky was to hockey or Michael Jordan was to basketball — the iconic face of a sport"

Unfortunately this icon didn't come with the paycheck the other ones mentioned did. LOL! WTF do they come up with these stories? She's participated in a very high risk activity and didn't have the sense to purchase insurance? What a complete moron. That would be like the deceased Evel Knievel doing some insane motorcycle jump over a some mile deep canyon and upon injuring himself complaining that someone else should pay for the costs of his injuries. Idiots with agendas have no shame.

Can someone explain how Obamacare would have saved this young lady? All I see is that she took a risk, lost, and now Obama wants everyone else to pay for it?

For all the arguments, there isn't a Republican on the planet that wants to see a true, disadvantaged person go without health care. In fact, most Republicans give more to charity then Democrats. But, we don't trust the governement to do the right thing.

Our health insurance industry isn't the best, but they only make 5 to 10% profit (about $12 billion for the top 10 largest firms). There was over $250 billion in waste in Medicare alone last year!!! That is OUR money. ObamaCare mandates that 85% of premiums collected should go to services and 15% to admistrative services. Are you libs going to ask the same of our government? Heck no, b/c they couldn't do it.

The best part about private health insurance, if my health insurance company decides to screw around with me, I can always pay cash or get a different insurance company. Once the government takes over and mandates care through them, where are your choices when they deny you care? Hmmm? Ever think of that?

Bottom line, this lady got care. It cost a lot so she got a bill. What is so freakin shocking about that. Perhaps everyone in America should get a free steak dinner at Morton's every month without paying....

It's interesting this article is measuring our healthcare in the United States. This young lady was critically injured IN CANADA, our health care system really is'nt at the forefront of the issue. The saying "no good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind.

The truth of the matter is that the Canadian system sucks. My wife was treated for cancer and the oncologists nurse practitioner was from Montreal. She told us that her mother waited 9 months to have a cat scan after her cancer diagnosis. 9 MONTHS. In 9 months my wife probably had 5 scans. The Canadian system is designed to NOT find things that are extremely costly to treat until it is too late so that the patient dies fairly quickly. This is because they have limited funds and they must spend them on the people that have the best cost to cure ratio. A lot of people in the USA don't have insurance because they choose to spend the money on something else. They scream they can not afford insurance while they go on vacations, drive new cars, pay 150 a month cable bills, buy every new electronic toy for their kids, ect ect. The fact of the matter is that most people that do not have insurance don't have it because they want someone else to pay for it. Grow up, make the hard choices and insure yourself and your family.

America has the best care in the world, cancer survival rates are better and longer, speciality doctors can be found in most major cities, and we have the latest and greatest equipment in almost every hospital. Whether you have coverage or not you will be treated no matter what the cost. Yes many people are then stuck looking at a huge bill that can't afford but that is why we have bankruptcy laws. If you hand over the system to the government the cost will go down but so will the quality of care. UK has a population of 62,000,000, while America has a population over 300,000,000. The costs of such a system will dwarf everything else. The government will use this new power to control behavior, just imagine the government taxing you more if you eat out more then four times a week, using your medical records to find out if your a smoker or drink Alcohol and then charging you more because your more of a health risk. Imagine your health care visit being similar to your DMV visits. I'm not saying we need to keep the status quo, but lets try to come up with something better.

By the way I find it interesting this article says 50 million people don't have insurance, when just a few years ago we were discussing Obama care the number was 35 million. Obama passes a health care bill and the number gets worse? I'm not sure this articles correct.

In America, the only civilized country without some form of universal health care, we have over 50 million people uninsured. We rank 37th in health care, that is below many 3rd world countries. Most of our citizens cannot afford our extremely high priced health care. The majority of medical bankruptcies are filed by people with health insurance, the co-pays and deductibles combined with not covered, life saving procedures, are the leading cause of bankruptcies.

Since our government is corporate owned, our politicians create laws that enable insurance companies to realize obscene profits at the expense of our citizens. The politicians have the very best possible insurance, paid for by us. They (politicians) have created laws that should have every person in America, protesting in the streets. Evey country in the world negotiates the price of medicines from pharmaceutical companies. It is illegal to negotiate in America. Our citizens are not legally allowed to purchase American made medicines from other countries where they are much cheaper, because the prices were negotiated. The insurance companies are allowed to raise rates whenever they want to and refuse insurance to anyone that they decide they may not make enough Profit off of. The insurance companies decide what tests and treatments the Dr. is allowed to use. I would prefer to have a non-profiteering, govt. bureaucrat overseeing my treatment than an insurance employee whose job depends on how much money he\she can save the company. Dr.'s are paid bonuses by insurance companies for not testing patients, bonuses are paid to them for for NOT doing any procedure (no matter how beneficial to the patient) as long as it saves the insurance company MONEY. Even if half of the "universal health care stories" were true; ask any uninsured person if they would rather be monitored by a Dr. while waiting for a procedure or never getting the needed procedure because they cannot PAY for it. It doesn't take a genius to know what their answer would be.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), whose job is to determine how much something will cost the government (us) has determined that besides saving millions of lives a year, universal health care would save America billions of dollars a year. Of course the corporations do not care. It is ALL about PROFIT for them. They can always hire a healthy worker, why pay money to save a life? They buy "DEAD PEASANT" insurance on many of their workers. When that worker dies, the corporation is PAID the amount of the benefit. Many corporations "earn" millions of dollars a year when their employees die.

Ours is a system for the wealthy by the wealthy. Americans deserve to have a vote (Democracy?) on universal health care. Obviously our "democratic Republic" system is not working. Usually, when we elect a representative, he\she is PAID by corporations to vote for laws that benefit them, not the average citizen.

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," a person cannot have any of these if they become sick and cannot get medical help. Health care is a RIGHT and every other civilized nation recognizes this. We must make our(?) politicians do the same.

You're right, Romney's marginal tax rate on earned income is probably at the max rate. However, the bulk of his income is "unearned" which by law is taxed at a reduced (Capital Gains) rate (15%). If the Capital Gains loophole is eliminated, then Romney's taxes skyrocket. This is true for most people earning (or unearning in this case) over $1 million a year. This revenue is huge. It would close the national deficit quickly and painlessly for most Americans. This is the new Obama plan (sometimes known as the Warren Buffet tax plan).

Capital Gains rates are lower because it is money you have earned, paid taxes on, and then invested to try and get a return. Why take risks with your money that has already been taxed if your going to just lose most of your return if you actually make any money? Raising taxes on capital gains would result in less investment, how do you think the stock market would react to the doubling of their taxes? Bill Clinton raised taxes on income but LOWERED the capital gains tax which helped contribute to the boom years of the 90's. Raising taxes just chases more money out of the country to safe havens in other counties, try to punish and bill them for that and they will just put the money in a mattress. Trying to solve all the worlds problems by raising taxes on the rich is just a silly argument, it has been tried in every country with poor results.

Here's the real kicker,.....ready,......we have an election coming up, and after it's over it won't be any better, only worse!!! Because "LAZY", "GREEDY" people are ruining everything about this country!!!! I'm not saying everybody has to do a labor intensive job. I'm just saying, everybody should have a real job! I think everyone should have to serve in our military! I think immigrants should spend an enlistment in our military as well in order to obtain citizenship! Health Care can never work in this country, because we are constantly in an unbroken circle of paying for the generation's of people who don't put their share into the hat!!! But they are still spitting sh*&loads' of babies out! WE ARE TIRED OF CARRYING YOU!!

To me, what is really pointed out here is that some participants in these high risk sports, choose to not insure themselves. Apparently she had the option to purchase insurance which would have helped considerably with the costs of her treatment.

Obviously this coverage would have been expensive because of the inherent risks of her sport. But any venture must have priorities established and all possible outcomes addressed. If you own a business, you must have liability insurance. A rational person doesn't consider it as an optional expense.....it's a priority expense!

If she considered insurance to cover her while she was out of country to be optional, she made a big mistake. How you could place this insurance at a lower priority than travel expenses, equipment expenses, event expenses, etc., is hard to understand.

To me the article points out a bad decision on her part. If the US did have universal health care, she still would not have been covered, so that has little to do with it.

Sorry if this may have already been covered in one or more of the preceding posts, but why didn't Sarah think to buy insurance coverage that covered her while in the US, especially considering her potentially dangerous line of work? When my wife & I travel, we always make sure we buy travel insurance. Also, why didn't Caroline's family have insurance coverage? Were they so poor that they couldn't afford it or what? I don't feel sorry for those who can afford to buy insurance or those who can't afford not to have insurance & don't. It's called "personal responsibility", something that appears to be a thing of the past here in the US & probably induced, in part, by the rampant entitlement programs we have here. Neither of these cases support, in any way, the need for obamacare or any form of medical entitlement.

I was injured skiing Whistler and when taken to their hospital they have a sign that says payment must happen at that time. Luckily, the I was not seriously injured and my brother was able to cover the payment. Unlike a previous poster, I had no problem whatsoever filing a claim with my health insurance (United Health Care) who covered 95% of the cost (granted, I was not airlifted to a hospital and did not break any bones)

@LogicReguired,

His "Job" is investing, so he will only ever pay that rate. Unless you are taking about the $300,000 in "speaking fees" he made. Gee, if the rest of us only could have his "risk" that he wasn't going to make a profit. He doesn't really "do" anything. He makes money from the money he made from the money he got for having the money that his dad gave him, that was made from money he made from having money.......and so on." His job is to find clever ways to make your money his money, without having to do any kind of actual labor. He is exactly what is wrong with our country.

"speaking fees", now that's funny. What's he say "To make lots of money, first have your dad give you lots of money, next invest that with his friends."

Health care in the US is nothing short of atrocious. I really get a kick listening to ignoramuses in this country tell how sorry the systems are in other countries. Back in the 70's I had an employee working up in Canada who was stricken with acute Appendicitis. The Canadians immediately took care of him. He had insurance, but it refused to pay a cent. Canadians simply didn"t care. Never charged me or him anything. Happened again with another employee in another area of Canada in the 90's. This time it was a gall stone attack. Same thing all over again. Both employees returned home with bills marked "paid in full" by your friendly neighbors to the north. Canada not only has a great health care system, most of them are great and classy people. Have an acquaintance who had to have emergency open heart surgery in France. Same situation as Canada. The US health care industry is a monitized carbuncle on the ass of compassion and reason.

Obviously you are liberal, probably a democrat, just stating what you have heard from other liberals or socialist. Your data is not back-up by any tangible resources therefore it is inaccurate. This article is quite obviously posted by the liberal media slanting towards big government agenda for Socialism so THEY can control Every aspect of our lives. With that we do loose certain rights. Since this woman was injured in Canada with such wonderful healthcare why should we be footing the bill for her care, Canada should have since it's so wonderful. Just like you I will not make the effort to look-up the statistics previously gathered about healthcare comparisions of the Unitied States and other countries with socialized medicine, but it was quite clear how the US is #1 in almost every aspect of healthcare. The statement given above about the wait for the more severe illness is accurate. It is apparent that actual care is weighed upon whether or not it will be worthwhile to spend the monies on certain cases such as will it really work, will they be a productive citizen afterwards, and who knows what other creteria on their checklist will you have to meet to receive care. Our system is not the greatest and it could be alot better, but Obumercare is not the solution except to manipulate this country into a Socialist State to where your Freedoms will be at risk.

@MacGyver

I think these "investors" should pay a minimum 35% tax rate. At that rate, many of them would choose not to invest their money in struggling businesses or start ups, and would park their money under the mattress and just pull out enough every month to live on.

That way, the government wouldn't have to figure out a way to spend the 15% they would have received from their investment returns. The companies that were about to go out of business could just shut their doors and lay off all their employees right away, rather than be bought by a vulture capitalist who might be able to save the company and 50% of the jobs.

Yes, lets raise the tax rates right away.....it's the only fair thing to do.

STexan, I hardly think the Canadian healthcare system is so bad like you claim. In fact, the life expectancy of Canadians is a couple years longer than for us in the United States. Moreover, all those horrible European socialists with their socialized healthcare systems have a longer life expectancy than we do. We even rank below Cuba in life expectancy!

Well, Well, a lot of people here do not know much, and is trying to tow the line of the "no government" health care--the type that almost 120 million have allready anyway, called Medicaid, and Medicare.

"The truth of this matter" the US medical system sucks, and is way too complicated, and is the worst on the globe in discriminating between people, unless you are connected in the few unions left, or a government all paid for worker.

As for Canada the GST "sales tax" was made to pay for health care, and US tried to copy that system here, but that would be bad for business (no ins premium to collect), with things costing too much,with such a GST tax, instead we have 700,000 people foreclosed on each year, so business can get their money first and only them!

As for tourists coming here from Western countries, they know that we have a third world medical system (number 29), with no or little connection on backcharging to other countries, so they have travel medical ins. The illegal sometimes get left in the gutter, and other visitors the same thing.

Big and small business do like to pay the illegals up to 5K a year for full time work, but not 10 K for medical, or even SS tax or Unemployment tax state and fed, but some of you at the same time sit here and dish on all those foreigners who actually do an incredible amount of work!

Major World Traveler!--just to let you know!

So you understand where I am coming from on this subject - I am a Republican, I am conservative, I am Christian. I am an attorney. I am self employed. I have no insurance. I have a sick wife, who requires frequent care, and it is chronic, life-long. No cure. I am totally against a national health plan, for the simple reason that sooner or later, money gets tight, and rationing begins. In law school, I studied health law, and I have done research on HIPAA for the state legislature. I have family in New Zealand, which, like Canada, has a single-payer system. I lived in Oregon, which has a low-income Medicaid system, and would be considered an example for a national system. Sooner or later, they all fail. It is quite simple. There is never enough money. Private health insurance works because it is a risk pool - they insure some but not others, so the ones covered get bills paid, but refusing preexisting conditions is important, because if they don't, they know they will have to cover care that will bankrupt them. Of all the nationalized health plans I have studied, Germany probably has the best one, it is a mix of private and government coverage, and a person can opt out of government coverage in favor of private. Government plans all end up picking and choosing what will or will not get paid for, because that becomes the only way to control costs. Sooner or later, the more expensive care requirements get denied. Many countries have waiting lists. You need something, anything, you go on a list and wait your turn. And in NZ, my uncle got dumped from the waiting list (for a simple hernia operation) simply because of his age.

MacGyver-2426308: You hit it squarely, right in the center of the head. I have made considerable money in just the way you describe. While legal, it's about a quarter of an inch from out and out thuggery. This type of sh^t ,and there are many variations, have just about destroyed this country, and our way of life. All the talk of entitlements, welfare for bums etc., is nothing but a goddamn ruse, hidden in a self serving pack of lies, by the beneficiaries of the thievery. Additionally, and amazingly, the ignorant wealth worshiper's are just as supportive of the criminality.

You know both sides have good points in this discussion, and there is a good solution, but I do not think anyone has found it yet. But here is some things to keep in mind, 1) government run health is not bad, if you want to see it just go talk to a veteran who get VA health care. I like my VA health care, at least when I can get in to be seen. When I call to get seen, I am told call back in a month since your doctor is booked up for the next 3 months. I end up going to pay for it through my health insurance instead. Why, cause I can get in that day or the next, not in a month or two. However, once I am in, the health care provided is great, the facility is clean nice and new. 2) I am not sure if people understand that the reason we have a large amount of doctors is because IT PAYS VERY GOOD. Compare that to the salary of VA doctor, yeah the money is not even close. While the VA does not pay insurance, it still is not even close. The issue here is that if we go to a fully government controlled health care, it will cause bottom line providers income and slow down the desire of those seeking to become providers. From my talks with my neighbor who is from U.K., the two main problems with health-care there is that it is slow because there is not enough providers.

So while I hear everyone complain, I have yet to hear a solutionn to the problem. How to merg a pay for performance healthcare with a fair government run health care (empahizing FAIR). There has to be away to do this, but I am sure the cost are high and no one really wants to take on a tough problem in politics anymore. Not sure but sounds like we are screwed.

It is not only the 'working' that pay for healthcare. The non-working also pay for healthcare. It is calculated on your income tax forms at a percentage formula which I do not recall. So, it's not the 'working' paying for everyone else.

LOL.. and if their income is zero, how much do they pay? Um.. you don't really understand the whole idea of "non-working" do you.. ? Socialism is simple: Workers work and pay most of their paycheck in taxes, people who don't work reap the benefits.

If the U.S. had the same health plan as Canada, with the current tax system, they would have to add a new tax to cover it. That means that the working class would be paying over 50% of their income to taxes. Sorry, I would rather work a decent job, pay ~%5 of my income for medical premiums, and only pay ~25% in federal taxes and social security. The other ~20% I would rather keep for myself than give to the government to turn into healthcare for the people who don't work (and the illegal immigrants).

This isn't Canada.. we are a completely different nation. For one, we have our own military (a real military that could actually contribute to defense if need be), and anyone who thinks we don't need it is sorely mistaken. Canada gets to enjoy healthcare because the U.S. is there to protect them..

And yes, I do think the rich deserve better health care, because they can afford it. Someone commented that we all share the roads, why do the rich get better health care.. LOL.. if you think the highway system was put in place for your personal use you are truly dense. It is there for commerce, and while tax funded, the taxes primarily come from commerce (ie trucks and travelling salesmen). Money built this country, like it or not, and social systems do not keep it running, money keeps it running. Someone has to earn it, and if you take it all from him, he will just say screw it and stop working and then what..?

This article points out 2 things....

1) MSN is supportive of Obama care, and reports things on a one sided basis.

2) Anyone involved in a sport, or activity where the risk is HIGH of being injured, is ignorant to travel outside their own country and engage in this activity without having paid for insurance. The event probably has them sign a waiver...so they know they are ON THEIR OWN.

I live on the U.S. Canadian border, I listen to Canadian radio all the time, there are adds ALL THE TIME telling Canadian citizens to supplement their insurance while traveling to the U.S., because they are NOT covered in the U.S..

We may not have the great government giveaway for health care like Canada......YET. But I would urge anyone from Canada to realize when traveling to the U.S. involved in X games....if you want to play, you got to pay.

You people believe anything don't you.

Is the U.S. system inferior to those in other developed countries based on life expectancy and cancer survival rates? Not according to economists Robert L. Ohsfeldt (Texas A&M) and John E. Schneider (University of Iowa), who argued in their 2006 book, The Business of Health: The Role of Competition, Markets and Regulation (AEI Press), that the U.S. system actually compares very favorably to the health-care systems of other nations.

1. The top chart above (data here) shows both: a) unadjusted life expectancies for the U.S. and other OECD countries, and b) standardized life expectancies which are adjusted for the effects of premature death resulting from non-health-related fatal injuries. For unadjusted life expectancy, the U.S. ranks #14 out of 16 countries, but for the adjusted standardized life expectancy the U.S. ranks #1.

2. The bottom chart displays five-year age-adjusted cancer survival rates for the U.S. and selected European countries, showing that the U.S. has the best record for five-year survival rates for six different cancers. In some cases the differences are huge: 81.2% in the U.S. for prostate cancer vs. 41% in Denmark and 47.4% in Italy; 61.7% in the U.S. for colon cancer vs. 39.2% in Denmark; 12% in the U.S. for lung cancer vs. 5.6% in Denmark.

Cherokee_Proud

good post voted up

Here in the good ol U.S of A it is not about your,my ,our health care it is about making money and nothing more.

Cost of a colonostopy in the us is over 7,500 dollars, in Canada it is around 500 dollars so come on USA what is the reason that you take everyones life saving from them.?? Greedy F'N system. Not to mention that most doctors do not listen to what you tell them, and send you for a bunch of tests that do not find what is wrong with you. It is test after test and oh lets try this one and that is the one they should have started with in the first place. Plus you have to pay for all these tests that were a waist of time .

Lets face it people they are not in the business for curring you because there is no return/repeat visits if they cure you, so no more money for them.

I recently had to move my grandparents into an assisted living facility at the cost of 6,475 per month

my grandmother had to be moved to their memory care unit ,but not my grandfather, the cost wet up to 9,600+ a month. I gave the care home a notice of thirty days to move them out to another place and told them it was due to their cost increase andI had found a cheaper cost with the same type of care that they were providing. They asked what that cost was and asked if I would wait to see if they could macth it ..... Well they were within 100.00 dollars of the new place I found. But I think that they will soak up all that they had saved in their lifetime and I will have tosell their home to help make the payments to the facility they now stay in. They are in their 90's . TO THE US GOVENMENT stop spending our tax dollars on your F'n wars( that makes money for you )and pay the costs of our elderly and I really think that all of you should not get a paycheck untill you start helping our people in this country.

again it is all about making money not care for the people.

P.S my grandparents bill a month now is 7,200+

Rick-in-SD

STexan, I hardly think the Canadian healthcare system is so bad like you claim. In fact, the life expectancy of Canadians is a couple years longer than for us in the United States. Moreover, all those horrible European socialists with their socialized healthcare systems have a longer life expectancy than we do. We even rank below Cuba in life expectancy!

What is the average weight of a european? cuban? canadian? and finally, a U.S. American? See, if we are eating ourselves to death, I don't think it is so much a reflection of our health care system. Matter of fact, given the typical "American's" obsession with fast food, I would say that the relative life span compared to other countries is pretty damn good, and a reflection of how good our health care system really is. How many 1000 lb people are being kept alive in those other countries?

Someone mentioned that Germany probably has the best system in place. I would probably agree, especially given that the average American pays ~33% of his total income in taxes while the average German pays ~60% of his income to taxes. It aint free, unless you don't work. How many homeless are there in Germany? How many people on their welfare program? Does their welfare program pay more if you have more kids? Perhaps before you condemn the American system of health care, you should look at where the real problems lie. Sure, if we got rid of the illegals, got our kids off their lazy butts and got them into real jobs, weened the welfare cases off the system and got them working, and became a producing nation again, we could afford to put a decent socialized health care system in place. But that is never going to happen.. too many "poor" people who don't work who are voters looking for the next hand out.

Stop looking at a single facet of a really big problem and look at it as a whole. Then trace it back to the source, and see what you find. The liberal socialists here might be surprised if they actually stopped to see where the real problems lie.

Rick-in-SD

STexan, I hardly think the Canadian healthcare system is so bad like you claim. In fact, the life expectancy of Canadians is a couple years longer than for us in the United States. Moreover, all those horrible European socialists with their socialized healthcare systems have a longer life expectancy than we do. We even rank below Cuba in life expectancy!

What is the average weight of a european? cuban? canadian? and finally, a U.S. American? See, if we are eating ourselves to death, I don't think it is so much a reflection of our health care system. Matter of fact, given the typical "American's" obsession with fast food, I would say that the relative life span compared to other countries is pretty damn good, and a reflection of how good our health care system really is. How many 1000 lb people are being kept alive in those other countries?

Someone mentioned that Germany probably has the best system in place. I would probably agree, especially given that the average American pays ~33% of his total income in taxes while the average German pays ~60% of his income to taxes. It aint free, unless you don't work. How many homeless are there in Germany? How many people on their welfare program? Does their welfare program pay more if you have more kids? Perhaps before you condemn the American system of health care, you should look at where the real problems lie. Sure, if we got rid of the illegals, got our kids off their lazy butts and got them into real jobs, weened the welfare cases off the system and got them working, and became a producing nation again, we could afford to put a decent socialized health care system in place. But that is never going to happen.. too many "poor" people who don't work who are voters looking for the next hand out.

Stop looking at a single facet of a really big problem and look at it as a whole. Then trace it back to the source, and see what you find. The liberal socialists here might be surprised if they actually stopped to see where the real problems lie.

Healthcare here in the US is very expensive. It is not possible to get quality healthcare in every town in the US.

I have done a good bit of research on this issue. Many charity hospitals, and thus trauma centers have closed their doors and thus leaving depressed areas without quality health care. The reason being is that the government reimbursements for medicaid are so low, meaning below the cost of the service, and also so slow that eventually these hospitals just plain run out of money to keep the doors open. So you can mandate health care, but in reality you can't guarantee timely, quality care.

There is a purposely doctor shortage that won't get better any time soon because of lack of educational facilities and instructors. A shortage always means higher prices. So now we are planning to add 35 million more people into the system knowing we have a huge doctor shortage.

My husband recently has been dealing with an eye issue. We have made two visits to a large eye clinic and spent at least 4 hrs there seeing a variety of different people. The truth is there just isn't enough doctors to deal with the number of patients that come in each day.

Americans have never budgeted for their medical care. Not many years ago, it was common for employees to not have to pay any deductible although they paid premium. I remember when that changed and people were being asked to pay 100.00. People really got mad. The US out of pocket medical expense per person is less than 10 percent of the cost of medical care. Conversely the Swiss pay 30 percent out of pocket for their care.

The only way medical costs come down is for everybody getting care to have skin in the game. So there must be an incentive to not abuse the system and not abuse our health by engaging in bad behavior. Smoking, drinking, drugs, poor eating habits and lack of exercise is costing each of us so much money and yet behavior isn't improving. People feel they have the right to force others to pay for their poor choices often not contributing to their own health care costs. I know people on medicaid that have chronic lung disease that smoke every day. I have known people that were on oxygen and still smoking. Where is the personal responsibility?

I'm not clear on why she didn't have coverage. She could have gotten travel insurance from Blue Cross, unless there's an exemption I'm not aware of for people in high-risk activities.

Or perhaps she was in the US so long training that she was considered a US resident.

But having lived in both countries, the stupid ads about how bad Canadian healthcare is are totally wrong and so are the scare stories I hear about it. The US healthcare system is definitely worse. Calling it a "system" even is a joke, it's just a shambolic mess.

Just compare prescription prices, stuff in the US often costs four times as much if not more, and that's the over-the-counter price, provinces have prescription drug plans.

Also, here is another myth: Canadian taxes for the average person are actually LOWER than in the US, not higher. People generally compare the income tax rates which are higher in Canada but they forget to include payroll taxes which are way lower than in the US so the overall tax burden on the actual person who works for a living is lower. If you live on income from investments then yes you pay more.

The maximum amount of payroll tax you pay as an individual in Canada (except Québec and Saskatchewan) is $3,000 and you hit that around $44k. What are you paying in FICA? At that level of income you're paying around $3,400 in the US, but bear in mind that is the maximum rate in Canada.

At an income of $80,000 you're paying over $6,000 in FICA, but still only $3,000 in Canada. That more than wipes out any difference in income taxes. And that is without considering any State income or payroll taxes.

So "Universal" in Canadian means you have it unless you are crazy enough to go on vacation or have to cross the border for work...nice...I think I will stick with my blue cross..it follows me where I go

That's the point. The entire story is bogus. She was given prompt, outstanding care. Care she couldn't have gotten anywhere else. Some damage simply can not be corrected. Then they try and make the situation into something it isn't. Somehow, I don't think Obamacare of the future is going to cover those who engage in daily sport or other activity that is risky and dangerous, either. What poor reporting and a lame attempt to promote an agenda, Kari Huus

STexan: Your reply is uninformed. Canada has trauma care, cancer care, heart care, transplants, you name it. She could have been treated in Canada, but was too injured to be moved.

Are you against healthcare for your family? I don't think so.

What is so wrong with Insurance companies being required to use 80% of the premiums we pay on our healthcare ? Obamacare = the boggieman. I dont think so

STexan - the US is the only country in the developed world where medical bills can force you into bankruptcy. Canada has an excellent healthcare record, unless you're listening to a right wing media outlet. She would have gotten outstanding care in Canada, had the injury happened there. The point of the article is that unless the public had responded generously, her family would have been faced with large enough medical bills to push them into financial ruin. Obamacare is not the cure all. Much, much more plagues our healthcare system than what Obamacare could ever hope to fix. At least many more Americans are covered; people with pre-existing conditions and youth....have you ever lost your health insurance? Probably not, from the sound of your replies.

Margaret,

Services in Canadian hospitals are not free to foreign citizens but the bill is a hell of a lot less than the one you would get here.

jkh

Jim - I know services are not all free in Canada - but she was Canadian and would have been covered for the majority of her hospitalization and surgeries. Unlike the US, where hospitalizations routinely cost $15,000 - $35,000 per day depending on the level of care. Surgeries are an extra cost. Crazy. I don't understand how anyone (right or left) can possibly think that's sustainable.

Margaret,

I agree with you but your post and many others make it sound like countries with National Health coverage provide it for foreign nationals, they do not. I have traveled for years and my children have competed in foreign countries as well as studying abroad and we have always have had great experiences with the health care systems in othe countries but they have never been free anywhere except China where it can be or not depending whether you want a Western practicioner. Some are far better than others I would not want treatment in Southeast Asia, I would try to get to Japan, Australia or if I had to the Phillipines. Pretty much anywhere in Europe are fine although I would prefer Germany, France, Benelux or Scandinavia. English and Irish care don't thrill me and I have no experience in accessing care in many of the others. It is usually easier to pay than to get your US healthcare Company involved they seem to have legions of flunkies available to deny payment for services costing them a fraction of what they would have paid in the US.

jkh

I have friends that love the health care in France. A friend went to the clinic with a sore throat and a respiratory infection. Twenty minutes later, they were done, with an RX for the pharmacy, and the doctor apologized because he had to charge them equivalency of ten dollars! Went to the pharmacy and paid about five dollars for the medicine. They are in the process of moving there now.

Jim Hayes-375865

Some of the best medical and dental treatment I have ever had, I got in Hong Kong and Singapore. Given, I went to the private hospitals and doctors. But I had friends who used the public hospitals and had great things to say about them... particularly the cost! One friend had to take her little boy for a broken arm and took him to the public hospital... the entire bill was $160.00. It is "free" to the citizens. Never had to wait either!! I know of several stories of medical emergencies that were well-handled by the public hospitals in Hong Kong and Singapore. Our country should be ashamed of itself that we do not have a handle on the health care situation. The costs of health care in this country are staggering... it that wasn't the case, maybe we could all just self-insure. But one of the reasons the costs are staggering is because we are paying for all of those who don't pay. I sort of feel like if we are "required" to have auto insurance, we should be "required" to have health insurance as well. But for those who cannot afford the staggering costs of health insurance, then there should be a government option for affordable insurance. Hopefully when everyone has some sort of insurance, then the prices of healt care could come down. Of course, I don't expect the money-hungry medical profession to ever give back... just line their pockets some more!

@isue....

You need to be really careful before savaging the health insurers over profit margins. “As a fraction of total premium revenue from WellPoint of $57,101.0 million in 2008, total health benefits amounted to 84.4 percent of premium revenue.”

That means 84.4% of what they took in was paid back out delivering health care payments for treatment and drugs, leaving only 15.6% of their total revenues available to pay employees, operate buildiings, pcs, phones, run a marketing department and make a profit.

Assume they could do all that for 5.6% of revenue. That would leave at MOST a possibility of a 10% profit margin. Anyone running a business knows that a company making 10% is actually doing pretty well, but certainly not excessively profitable. In fact, most health insurers make a fraction of that.

— CCC

Rest in Peace, Sarah.

It is High Time to consider a better comprehensive Health Care System in the USA. Great working examples are found in true First World Countries, if we but have the guts to put our jingoism and other fears aside. There is no cogent argument against that goal. Any such arguments are hyperbole.

She was in a high risk occupation/sport. About two seconds from death at all times during training or competition. Heck I am over 35 and I (still) snowboard, but I realize I could break my neck or hit something at any instant. I made sure before 35 I got life insurance and the thought of lifelong paralysis goes through my head as soon as I get off the lift...who would pay for my medical costs. Should you?

I love to board, but I no longer do anything fancy and I take it leisure. Same with my love of ATV and jet skiis.

In all honesty, they should charge me more for my health premiums since I am doing this stuff. It takes a great deal of luck to put yourself at such risk for the sake of your enjoyment of a sport and no other reason. If you do it for anything other than that, then it is a high risk occupation and plan accordingly.

As an American living in Japan... I pay ~100$ a month for total coverage. I pay 30% out of pocket for all medical expenses at the hospital.

But the Gov't subsidizes the costs, so it's still dirt-cheap. I'll tell you right now - I am TERRIFIED of going back to America, where health-insurance isn't a guaranteed thing.

I don't understand it... I just don't. How on earth can we as American's not have Universal healthcare? It makes absolutely no sense.

And people just throw that word 'socialism' around... but I don't think they know what it means...

American's LOVE socialism.

American's ADORE socialism.

American's USE socialism.

Folks I am baffled by this article. I must not be awake or just plain dull.

Shouldn't the article read: "Dealth of iconic skier exposes fatal flaw in Canadian Healthcare System"

She was a Canadian superstar skier who's occupation/sport/hobby took her to all reaches of the globe, but because she was a Canadian under canadian healthcare and skiing in the US the canadian healthcare system won't cover her? You have got to be kidding me!!! My health insurance covers me in Canada. I know because I have worked in Canada for months at a time as a contractor from the US.

Don't you know that Canadians come here to get stents for their hearts because they are on such a waiting list in Canada that they would die. Also, the Canadians are not covering all the illegals as U.S. citizens are doing.

This whole story is bogus..What does our country not having National health have to do with her not having extended coverage for her traveling? Anyone who does the traveling she did SHOULD have extended coverage.

I do not support Obozocare. Health care is what you pay for the wellbeing of your family. If you can't afford the health care, why are you having a family to start with?

Obozocare will be no better than what we already have. The working class paying for those who don't. And for those of you who think the RICH will be paying for it you're dreaming. they will have their own private insurance, just like the President and the senate & congress do now. Do you think THEY will be covered under Obozocare? Hell no.

Her stay and subsequent (unfortunate) attempts to save her life cost about $20,000.00 a day. I would love to know what these services would have cost in Canada. Universal health care in the US will bankrupt this country in "heart beat" with insane cost like these. What are heath care cost's in other countries with universal care? A fraction of what they are here. That's the dirty little secret we don't want to talk about. I could go on, but anyone who has researched these cost knows the truth.

Pretty big stretch to make an editorial point -- the poor woman would've been just as dead no matter where her accident happened. Don't appropriate her memory and image just to pontificate on an issue that's a lot more nuanced than it's made to appear in this article.

MSNBC - pushing liberal crap in every story in the world... This article is BS and you know it. First of all - she knowingly engages in a high risk sport. Common sense will tell you that you will need additional coverage above and beyond what you already get. Why is it my responsibility to pay for your high risk activities? I am not your mother or any other member of your family. I do not have a legal responsibility to care for you. If you cannot afford the additional care - then well - don't go freestyle extreme skiing. That's life. We can't always do what we want to do.

As for the 13 year old - her parents are to blame for that. I would not have children if I could not provide for them and that means making sure they have insurance. Because you don't want to work for "the man" and are self-employed does not mean you shirk your responsibilities to your children. Again - I work to take care of my family. I will move heaven and hell to make sure their needs are met even if it means that I go without. It is not my responsibility to pay for the care of someone else's child.

Universal health care is not the utopia MSNBC thinks it is. Ask a Canadian how expensive it is to live there. Its not cheap. Everything is more expensive there because everyone is paying for everyone elses health care. Same for Europe. If you think you're struggling to get by now, wait till Obama's crap goes into effect.

Good question. When my girls played softball on the city league we were offered insurance along with the other papers at sign up. So why are her sponsors taking her on international jaunts and disregarding their responsibility to take care of their athletes. As to our inability in America to cover everyone while at the same time paying more for medical than in any other country: Look at the cost components. 25% of all costs of pharmacy is paying for those TV/magazine/web ads for drugs. In Europe and Japan they aren't allowed. The Docs are supposed to know their drugs. We pay repetitive commissions to ins salespeople to "take our order" each year when we renew our policies. Ins sales people I know - one has a $500,000 boat, the other travels internationally 3 times a year in cluding one grand fishing trip each year to central or south America. Price that out for yourself. In europe Doctors live as well or better than others but not like Barrons or Dukes. In the US here in the south Docs are in 4000 to 8,000 sq ft houses in gated communities driving his and her $90k cars, spare house in the mountains or at the beach. And this continues as the people who don't pay attention squabble among themselves over whether we should do this or that to the medical plan. There is plenty of money to cover everyone and have money left over if the people in the system weren't such hogs about getting paid. My Dentitst's assistant drives a Lexus SUV she bought new and tels me of her seasons passes to Didney and trips to foreign countries. The problem here is people need and must have medical care and the people in the system have had plenty of years to set it where they can just suck all the cash from your accounts to feed their luxury addictions. There is no descretionary purchasing decision. IT's medical care. It's not a free market. You are a captive "customer" and they simply pillage your accounts.

@ isue rslvd - the major insurers already pay 80%+ of the premiums in benefits. It is the smaller insurers that need to pay commissions to independent salesmen that will have the problems.

Margaret 737048, read the article. The young lady WAS injured in Canada. Why was she transported to the USA if our system is so feeble and expensive.

This is the biggest liberal BS article I have read to date. If the Canadian Healthcare system is so great why didn't they pay for her healthcare. My insurance covers me anywhere in the world. If she had been in Canada when this happened, she would have had to wait for days to get care and that would have been after some bureaucrats decided the surgery would have been deemed worth while. Being that she was a national star they would probably have deemed it necessary. Had it been a regular old Joe, they probably wouldn't have gotten treatment. In America, the greatest country on the planet, with the best facilities and doctors in the world, she got immediate care in a great facility, with the best doctors money could buy. It is ashame that she died, but they did everything they could. She would no doubt have died in Canada or any other place in the world. She at least had a chance here in America. This whole POS article is about Obuttwad's and the liberal demowit's agenda of government run healthcare. It had nothing to do with how good our healthcare system is. We have the best healthcare in the world and it is because we have a capitalist system. Keep pushing for a socialist system and you will end up with lousy healthcare, bureaucrats deciding whether you get treated or not and very long waits to see a doctor.

Help save the country -- Tea Party these idiot liberals out before they destroy the country.

"I wonder why she was not covered by the sponsors of the event she was participating in"

That is the real issue here - not to debate between US and Canadian Health Care systems. This is not a case of a traveler coming to the US for vacation, this was a professional athlete whose coverage is managed by others.

She WAS covered by the insurance of the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, but the $5 million policy does not cover athletes competing in events that are not a sanctioned part of the association’s program. The injury took place while taking part in an event put on by sponsor Monster Energy (US based). Although Monster states they had medical insurance in place, clearly it either did not cover much or something else was amiss. Her agents and other Reps should have checked that her policy covered exhibitions and corporate events, or added additional coverage. While Sarah and her husband are adults who can make their own decisions, they may have been under the impression that the agents/Reps had all the details covered and never questioned the coverage.

Thanks all the same but I would prefer NOT to give the government another 15-20% of my income to give me crappy "free" care. I didn't see any mention in that article about the flood of Canadians who head to the U.S. for health care because the Canadian system is overburdened, underfunded and has very long wait times for mediocre care.

This article is such a crock. What does this Canadian skier who did NOT have the proper insurance for traveling outside of her own country have to do with our health care system? Absolutely NOTHING.

While I feel badly for her friends and family on her death, the US having National health care would not have changed that fact any.

I am Opposed to National Health and Obozocare. If you think that Obozocare is FAIR, why not ask the President or even your local rep if THEY and their family are going to be covered under that plan? HELL NO, they won't. They will have the private insurance they've been having all along. I pay for my own thanks. If you can't afford to support your family and give them proper health care, maybe you should reconsider having a family to start with.

I can think on my own.... Your thoughts show the entire problem.... Yes it is your responsibility to help others and if you think it's not, then you are sorely mistaken.... You enjoy the fire department, if you need it, the protection of the police, your children can get a free education, your roads are easy to drive on and maintained.... and I paid for all of that and so did you... so tell me again how it's not your job to care for anyone else??? GREEDY scumbags that think only about themselves while taking advantage of all this nation has to offer, but are not willing to do your fair share.... That's America's biggest problem, so next time, deal with that police issue yourself and don't call the fire dept if your house is ablaze... because you don't deserve help from anybody else and by your own definition you don't need any help!

MRZ,

About $4-5K per day

"Universal health care is not the utopia MSNBC thinks it is. Ask a Canadian how expensive it is to live there. Its not cheap. Everything is more expensive there because everyone is paying for everyone elses health care. Same for Europe. If you think you're struggling to get by now, wait till Obama's crap goes into effect."

Total, utter crap. Compare how much tax you would pay in Canada using one of the many on-line tax calculators.

The only truly more expensive thing in Canada are housing costs - because the Canadian real estate market didn't crash.

Canada also doesn't have 11 aircraft carriers and a massive military.

As I recall the average take home income (i.e. after taxes) in the US for a family of four is $52k and in Canada it's $44k, however Canadians don't have the healthcare costs an American family would have, which I saw estimated at $15k recently for a family of four in California.

I get tired of people saying that US is some sort of anomaly in the developed world, America is different because of some sort of cultural difference or whatever. Doesn't work so well when comparing with Canada, because it's so similar in so many ways. At that point you have to look at the facts, i.e. that the US Govt. is dysfunctional, which is in fact the truth, which is why so many political groups in the US try to obscure this reality by spreading myths that Canada has high taxes and poor healthcare.

In reality Canada often has lower taxes, especially the case with corporation tax. As one simple example, the car registration fee in Alberta is $70 pa. What is it in your State?

I always note that the only real thing the Democrats and Republicans agree on is that they should be the only two political parties in the US. Canada currently has five political parties represented in Parliament and has various other measures, such as limits on campaign financing and expenditures the US does not have.

Just think what would happen if there was a third political party in the US with some strength and what would happen in all the gerrymandered Congressional districts that favor the Democrats or Republicans.

Michael,

We don't want their oil if you're referring to the recent pipeline fiasco. That shale oil just going to pass through Midwestern states on the way to the Gulf of Mexico, where it was going to other countries.

And don't include me with your royal "we." I want the same rights and access to medical care not only as the Canadiens has, but the same rights and access to medical care as 24 out of the top 25 industrialized countries in the world have. Witless apologists for our system have said, "Our health care systems is special, unlike any other country's." In a way it is--we're the only country that has allowed lobbyists from Big Insurance and Big Pharma to dictate national healthcare. We're also the only country on earth with easily manipulated voters like you who have been suckered into buying into their greedy corporate propaganda.

Michael M. I agree. People are not realizing that the pipeline that would go right across the Ogalallah Aquifer to Texas is going to carry dirty oil to TX to be refined and sold on the open market. People seem to think they are going to give it to us for free or cheap. The reason they want to go directly south to Texas is because they don't want to run it halfway across Canada. They want to have it go over OUR land, just in case of leaks.

The GOP is talking about how 57% of the American citizens do not like Obamacare. What they do not realize is that over 30% of us don't like it because it did not go far enough. We wanted single payer health care, or at least a public option. Instead we got a watered down bill, when we should have pushed it all the way to single payer.

Willow - what people don't realize is that the Ogalallah Aquifer has literally thousands of miles of pipeline crossing it already, none of which cause it any problems. And... the proposed new pipeline would have merely been run along side other existing pipelines. The worry over that pipeline is like standing in the middle of a hayfield scared that a few handfuls of grass are going to blow into your field from the neighbor's field across the fenceline. Here's the map:

Willow - what people don't realize is that the Ogalallah Aquifer has literally thousands of miles of pipeline crossing it already, none of which cause it any problems. And... the proposed new pipeline would have merely been run along side other existing pipelines. The worry over that pipeline is like standing in the middle of a hayfield scared that a few handfuls of grass are going to blow into your field from the neighbor's field across the fenceline. Here's the map:

Willow - what people don't realize is that the Ogalallah Aquifer has literally thousands of miles of pipeline crossing it already, none of which cause it any problems. And... the proposed new pipeline would have merely been run along side other existing pipelines. The worry over that pipeline is like standing in the middle of a hayfield scared that a few handfuls of grass are going to blow into your field from the neighbor's field across the fenceline. Here's the map:

Hmmm. It kept rejecting my captcha, then put it up 3 times. Sorry about that.

Did it rip the map?

Google for ogallala aquifer existing pipeline map, find it on keystonexlnebraska dot com

Did it rip the map?

Google for ogallala aquifer existing pipeline map, find it on keystonexlnebraska dot com

Did it rip the map?

Google for ogallala aquifer existing pipeline map, find it on keystonexlnebraska dot com

Geez Dave, I guess you could say that again?

For those of you that keep touting the lower cost of health coverage in other parts of the world I have 2 words: trial lawyers. No where else in the world has the costs inflicted on their system that lawsuits inflict on ours. Get ride of malpractice suits (as well as most of the other bogus personal injury suits) and you will see the cost drop.

"Canada actually pays for some U.S. care."

This is true, and vice versa in fact. If for example you need intensive care, they will take you to the nearest hospital with available space and that could be on the other side of the border if you're near it. There are reciprocal agreements.

So do Canadians complain about getting free treatment in the US or Americans having to pay for care in Canada?

Well Canadians do, because it causes problems with citizenship issues. If they are born abroad and they have children abroad, those children do not automatically get citizenship.

Next time you want to go to the hospital I want you to knock on your neighbors door and tell them that they are paying for your medical care (and that they should expect to see the bill in the mail). Thank them, maybe give them a fruitcake.

What lack of health care? She recieved extensive care. Oh, you mean lack of FREE health care. Is your housing free? Your food? Your transportation? Why should your health care be?

Wake up now! Okay--so, the next time you want to travel overland, using the highway system, knock on your neighbor's door and tell them that they are paying for the highway you are using (no toll road)--and take them a fruitcake while you thank them. If your children are going to a public school--thank them for that. If you fly on an airplane, thank them for the air traffic controllers. If you are using public water rather than well water, thank them for that. If you contact the police or fire fighters, thank them for that . . . .

You know, I can go on.

What people do not seem to realize is that all the things I just mentioned are "socialist"--free public schools, free police services, free fire fighting services, public water, public sewers, public roads, etc. Some things are paid for collaboratively because we all use them--and, when we go in together, they are less expensive for each of us individually.

Other countries understand that we all use health care--not catastrophic care, necessarily, but just regular everyday health care. So, just like police or fire fighting or public water, they pay for it collaboratively. Now, yes, if you are rich and can pay your own security force--you get better service. If you are extremely poor here in the US, then the police pay a heck of a lot less attention to you and sometimes will not even show up unless it is a threat to the public good. Similarly, if you aren't lucky enough to live within city limits, you might not be able to get a fire department to help you if your house catches on fire (or have forgotten to pay the local extra service "fee" if you are on the periphery of a city and don't have it covered through taxes). The US often has "public services" which pattern themselves more on the pattern of capitalism, because virtually everything else here is capitalist. That public service mentality just isn't here for the most part.

Still, health care for people who are middle class or poor in the larger industrialized countries is far, far better than what we have here. The affluent have it better here; the elderly, who are on a socialized system, have it better here. The wealthy tend to only go to the very finest clinics here and abroad (and many of the "socialist" countries have the very finest clinics in the world). But, for those of us who are middle class (by which I mean third quintile of income and not everyone-between-the-unemployed-and-Bill Gates) or working poor are really hurting here.

Some health care should not be profit-driven. When health care (and especially drugs) are profit-driven, people get very poor care. We cannot get a sufficient supply of vaccines any more, medications which are no longer under patent are hard to get, and even getting one's arm set at a hospital costs a small fortune. Simple, everyday sorts of care that we all should expect to have--including things like typical heart disease, high blood pressure, Type I and Type II diabetes, pediatric care, obstetrics, and elder care--would be more effectively provided if they were offered under universal care.

I do not think that heart transplants should be, nor liver transplants, nor care for cancers that are pretty much incurable and for which we only have experimental care. People can get catastrophic coverage for that--and if they can't afford it, well, everyone dies sometime. But basic care, like a basic highway, should be offered under universal care because then it would be less expensive for all of us.

I would just love for people to go live in a country where they had to pay to drive down interstate highways, pay each time the fire department came out (or pay a prohibitively high "insurance" fee to have the fire department visits covered), and so forth. You'd find out very quickly that things cost more when they are for-profit, the people offering the service can charge whatever they like, and we don't go in together to diminish the costs.

Perhaps you should stop and consider that your ever-so-great grandparents, who arranged for you to have free public schools (and free books in public schools), an interstate highway system that is paid for, and (well, your grandparents probably did this) Medicare knew a bit more about what life is like without those things. Perhaps you should also stop and think about why it was that they chose to erect agencies to regulate corporations and the ultra-rich. The Jamestown Flood, for example, might be something you could review. I think you will find that your ever-so-great grandparents, who didn't all frown on socialism by the way, were a heck of a lot smarter than you think they were.

Wakeupnow, that is not so because under a one-payor system, I would be paying through my taxes too, as well as my neighbor. If all pay, than tell me how anyone would be knocking on the door of anyone else? And actually, if you want to talk about insured vs. non-insured I would ask how many stories do we hear involving INSURED people filing bankruptcy too? Insurance in most cases of catastrophic injury or illness do not cover everything. And God forbid if a doctor, surgeon or specialist comes in during your emergency situation and he isn't in the prized "network" your insurance accepts or performs a "non-covered" procedure that saves your life, limb or fixes you in the best way, but ultimately isn't what they wanted to pay for in the long list of exclusions which can be twisted legally to their advantage! And hope your state has outlawed "balance-billing" by some specialist that came in while you were in the hospital or you are really in for some fun! Point is, everyone, insured or not, could end up in lifelong debt( or worse) if things do not go as they should...it's just too easy to all go wrong the way we have it set up now. Other countries get it and have less bankrupted people.....I guess they figure bankrupted people have no money to pay taxes or contribute much to the economy. Let's not forget the humane side of medical care as well for anyone who needs it. It is starting to seem that our "Nation under God" is becoming less and less worthy to be called that.

Why does everyone think that Government run health care is a good idea in this country? Does it sound good to force down medical cost, sure it does. Does it work out well.... no it does not. I have several friends and relatives that are doctors, nurses or surgeons. As it stands it takes years to even make back the money spent in medical school; not to mention the constant fear of malpractice law suits in this country. It's hard enough to find motivation to get your medical PhD much less so if any chance of making any real money at it go away.

It would be like needing a masters to wait tables and loosing your job the first time somone claimed to their food was cold.

Also, a response like not everyone would pay does not matter. We already have systems like Medicaid in place so nothing would be worse than it is already in that department.

As long as health care is profit driven, the system will marginalize those who cannot pay, regardless of need.

Allowing insurance to be optional is like allowing motorcycle riders the option not to wear a helmet. In our lifetimes we will all obtain medical services and if you ride a motorcycle for long enough you will be in some sort of accident. The question is not if but when, and knowing this and allowing protection to be optional is among the most irresponsible policies that can exist. There is a line where the freedom to choose allows us to make a decision so irresponsible from a safety standpoint that it's in the public's best interest to restrict it.

Every year, about 7 in 100,000 people will get Lyme disease in the US. Is it these peoples' fault for catching a rare disease? It surprises me how often opponents to universal health care are willing to point their fingers and claim that they don't want to pay for someone else's care for getting into a car accident or the like, as if purported self-responsibility makes someone immune to accidents or victimhood of chance.

I don't think it can be argued that it's responsible to allow anyone to opt out of a service which can be enormously expensive when needed that we will all use within our lifetimes.

Many other countries have insurance that will cover their participants anywhere in the world; EXCEPT the United States. The reason is that the U.S. charges more for medical procedures, hospital stays, and prescriptions than the rest of the world. We are the idiots that let our insurance companies mandate these things. If this girl had insurance (which she did because her government paid for it) and her insurance would not pay you should probably look at the fine print on why it did not cover her. I understand that this family just lost their daughter however when would be a good time to send them the bill? Someone has to pay this girls bill. Sorry, I know this sounds cold but it is the facts.

Just got bill from doctor in emergency room...$6000 for 5 stitches in finger..for doctor alone, not hospital bill...15 mins. of his time, thats nuts!...

That is BS and you know it. We have bankrupted many hospitals in this great country because we give care to everybody, even scumbag ILLEGALS. So, quit spewing the liberal crap you here on MSNBC.

Gimmy gimmy gimmy, what will you demand next? Free food? Why don't we have a single payer grocery store! After all food is much more important than health care. The government cannot mandate that you eat broccoli so it cannot demand that you buy health care. If the government can give you everything, they can take it all away.

@jrsyjorg

After doing some online research I have to say it is quite possible. Democratic states being the worst in ER costs.

ELIZABETH: Because we are a stupid, provincial, backwards country, that's why.

"Canada paid for it..."

Really? Who is Canada? Wake up people, there is no free lunch!

No free lunch, but there are premiums a hell of a lot cheaper than any coverage in the US, that pays for EVERYTHING - ER visits, drop-in clinics, surgeries, no co-pays, childbirth, etc etc etc.

Because American health care is a for profit business.

George,

Canadian trauma care is every bit as good as ours at a fraction of the cost. Because of Canadian single payer and its powerful bargaining position it allows Canada to provide medical services and prescription coverage at a fraction of the cost. My daughter was medivac'd from the Whistler luge run to Vancouver where she was treated for head trauma. She was sliding for the US Jr national team who did not cover our expenses. Our US insurance took 9 months and threats of legal recourse before they would pay the bill which was about a fifth of what it would cost here. Since then when out of the country we have always purchased supplemental travel insurance. The cost of the helicopter trip here is as much as the entire 3 days of neurological exams and hospital care cost in Vancouver.

jkh

And even with Insurance you can go broke here. Get yourself a 1,000,000.00 hospital bill and have fun paying your 20+ %. That's even if you can get the, for profit, Insurance company to OK the hospital to treat you properly. They would just as soon let you die while you fight for an approval than pay out their 80% for expensive procedures. We're nothing but an income source for them and the more they you turn down the more they make. If you can't see a problem with that you're just stupid.

Why don't you people ask yourselves WHY it is so ridiculously high here???????

How many bureaucrats, LAWYERS and insurance company executives are there between you and your doctor?

And now you think its a good idea to add more? Do you actually believe the cost will magically dissappear??? Who's nuts now?

We need to throw out the system and start over. Particularly with this layer of goofiness existing between you and your doctor for a normal office visit.

You got what you asked for when you started inviting 'everyone else' to get between you and your responsibilities.

Because in the US, we are spending 15% of our GDP on health care. In almost all of the other industrialized countries, they pay between 3 and 7 % on health care. and they have a better system and cover more people with good solid health care.

I'm sorry. I am usually very patriotic and love my country. However, lately, with the politics, the lying, the crap, the obstruction in congress, the lack of bipartisanship, and the health care dilemma, I am wondering why I even want to stay in this country. Its very sad.

It is far more important to bring Democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan than to bring communistic free health care to the worthless in the United States. I much rather have a FREE and DEMOCRATIC Iraq than a bunch of Wellfare Queens and their drugged out children getting taxpayer subsidized healthcare. At least with a democratic Iraq we get petroleum.

Then why not move to Iraq? They would love to have you, you're just their type.

The typical move to Iraq or other third world country if you don't like it here quip is getting old yet everyone is still using it....no kidding, you mean the USA is a better place to live than Iraq?....DUHHHH. But the issue here is that we are becoming the "third world" of modern, industrialized nations and that isn't a good thing....we should be the leader in health or at least in the top 10! It's becoming an embarrassment to think that when offered a less appealing place to live than the US, a third world country seems to be the only thing to pull out of a hat.

Least we forget the young woman in question died. She would have died under any healthcare program.

The real issue is the U.S. is that there is a middle man -- the insurance company. That is the problem with the U.S. healthcare -- It's all for profit. No cost controls as the insurance company negotiates/dictates with the medical profession but the insurance company's first priority is profit and shareholders and it's the insurance company that screws the people with the premiums for which you never know if you will be covered in that many have been in a hospital bed fighting with the insurance companies for treatments the company has denied.

There is no insurance who has treated or cured a patient. They are paper/money/profit pushers.

Obama made the first step but needs to go further. The insurance companies need to be crushed and disposed of. It is the insurance company that in many cases dictates your choice of doctors and even your choice of hospitals and gets in between you and your doctor.

It is also a fact that hospitals in most other countries are owned by the government. They are not profit driven. Doctors bill the government healthcare. Drugstores bill the government for senior's scripts. Fees are set for healthcare and same for scripts.

meede1; Good post.

People need to realize that corporations are, by law, chartered to make as much money as they legally can for their stock holders. We will never get affordable healthcare until we have a non-corporate single payer system. Even Romney care or Obama care will be a step forward.

Then there's a dysfunctional congress to deal with.

Elizabeth, we are happy to do that, but now we are having to pay for illegals to have health care here and pay for their children and their education....there is no end and we cannot afford it any longer and everyone is angry.

a lot of our medical cost is because we pay for the r&d that the rest of the world enjoys without paying a penny for it

At least with a democratic Iraq we get petroleum.

Of course like most Republicans you're not going to go yourself and fight for it, but as long as someone else's kids are fighting and dying you'd much rather have wars than preventing Americans from dying from easily treatable conditions.

Whats funny is I get a statement from my Insurance company telling me how much I saved by using them. The Funny part is the premium payment isn't listed in the cost break down. They must want me to believe they do it all out of the goodness of their heart. lol

That is why out-of-pocket maximums are AWESOME. But still, insurance in America is ridiculous, expensive, ill-managed, complicated and ... just plain sucky.

Some of you have no idea what you are talking about with health insurance. There is a cap on how much you can pay out of pocket. For most companies, the cap is some where around 5K per policy year, total, including copays. Over and above that, the insurance company pays for the rest, up to your policy limit, which is usually around 5 million. Do some research and learn your facts before screaming about 7k per day in costs. Yes, it does vary by company and which policy you have, but not by that much and the wording is mostly the same.

As far as this young lady in this article is concerned, my condolences to the family. She was an inspiration to many!

Lesson to be learned here is, always carry travel medical insurance. It is fairly cheap and easy to acquire, just ask your travel agent or call your local insurance guy.

RJ

RJ-

You cannot assume the is an out of pocket limit. Many "cheap" policies are on the market with no such cap. "Cheap" can easily be over a grand a month for family coverage.

LAURIE: You are so right and yet still, our cousins on the Right claim that we have "the finest healthcare system in the world". And look at what they're trying to do even now, they won't be happy until we having people dying in the streets. In many respect, the USA is a very puritanical, provincial and unsophisticated country.

Laurie, you are partialy right. Take a look at the taxes Germans pay. Higher income tax. Sales tax, plus a value added tax. Gasoline at ( last I saw) about $9.00 a gallon. Half of that taxes.

A lot needs done to our health care. Tort reform will help. Capping damages will help. My friend is a dentist, and pays $106,000.00 a year for malpractice, and has never had a claim. Punative damages should be no more than 3 times the actual damages, in any lawsuit. Juries see corporations as having deep pockets, but are too dumb to realize that corporations just pass losses on to consumers. Which means we, the working people pay.

We have the finest healthcare system that money can buy, problem is that you need a lot of money to buy it. I had family member that went bankrupt because of medical bills and they have insurance. Problem is when you are sick it is hard to work to pay those premiums, copays etc.

oldman young eyes

Says" Laurie, you are partialy right. Take a look at the taxes Germans pay. Higher income tax. Sales tax, plus a value added tax. Gasoline at ( last I saw) about $9.00 a gallon. Half of that taxes.

A lot needs done to our health care. Tort reform will help. Capping damages will help."

couple of things.

1. The reason gas is relatively cheap here compared to other countries is because Oil is traded in Dollars. If that ever changed gas would skyrocket to the same levels.

2. We've had tort reform for years and capped damages also have you ever seen a price drop in your insurance? I'm betting a BIG FAT NO! and you never will. You will see people that have been damaged for life and no recourse for proper compensation though.

Your Dentist friends Insurances may go down a little (but I doubt it will go down at all since it never has) but if it did he will not pass the saving on to you or us I can guarantee you.

Old Man,

German wages and pensions are higher than ours 6 weeks of vacation better healthcare better infrastructure and when you place all taxes paid in the US there isn't a hell of a lot of difference. VAT taxes are between 7-19% , real estate taxes are fairly low, gas is about $8.00 per gallon with more fuel efficient and less polluting vehicles and industry. Income tax ranges from 0 to 45 with someone making a combined income of about $100,000 paying 33% and $175,000 42%. German Universities cost between $100 and $1000 per semester for German citizens and are amongst the best in the world. When you add healthcare, retirement and higher educational benefits I would contend lifetime costs vs earnings is tilted significantly towards the middle class German citizen.

People who advocate low tax rates rarely present the entire picture of what higher taxes often provide.

jkh

Ed, our gas at the pump is fairly cheap compared to other countries, however, our actual price of a gallon of gas comes out to about $13.60 a gallon, if you include all of the costs incurred in getting this gas to us, plus paying for the military to help us get and secure that oil, etc. We pay more per gallon than most European countries. We need to look at these countries and find out the cost of living versus the standard of living. Germans have a higher standard of living than we do in the US, they are all working, getting excellent wages, paying a lot in taxes, but getting a lot in return. In the US we have this 8.2% unemployment, lousy wages, paying more hidden taxes for our gasoline, and having a lower standard of living than most European countries.

I look at most of these comments and despair. All those wonderful socialist countries and their wonderful socialized medicine...is that why there isn't an oncologist on the South Island of NZ?? Where do they all go? Is that why my friend in Norway with heart disease, very similar to mine, took 8 disastrous months to get the same tests and treatments I did in less than 12 hours? Yes, if you have the sniffles or flu; or a minor accident, sure that is what socialized medicine does OK....probably within 36 hours...but if you have something serious, the rich in those countres hustle their butts to.....you guess it, the nasty, the despicable, the hated.....USA. Don't kid me babes, I've been there....I know what I'm saying and it is quite clear, many on here don't.

Jerry -- Quit reciting Rethug talking points.

99.9% of the People in other countries don't go running to the States for surgeries. That's Bu||sh*t.

Why some are sent to the U.S. from another country is that it may be a surgery that is not done very often in their country and therefore may not have the specialist to provide it or some other reason it can't be done there, so then sent to the U.S. and those costs will be paid through their government healthcare service. When you compare the population in the U.S. to Canada - it's basically about 10%, so therefore there are more doctors and facilities in the U.S. If it's a surgery not often done, it's cheaper to send those few patients to the U.S. than to facilitate it in Canada.

As for waiting 8 months for 'critical' tests/treatments/surgery if it 'was critical' -- I highly doubt it.

36 hours for flu, etc -- more of your Rethug BS. Try an hour - the time it takes to get ready and drive there.

Seems you're on the emailing list to receive daily Rethug talking points.

There certainly is a gap in the writer's analysis. People don't lose their homes in bankruptcy, but they do get their other unsecured debts, like $200,000 in medical bills, discharged. Bankruptcy courts allow one to retain their residence as long as they make payments on the existing mortgage. There are alot of other reasons people go bankrupt or lose their homes, but government and taxpayers can't insure that bad things don't happen to people. Greece, Italy, France, Portugal and Spain are learning this lesson the hard way. Canada dodged the debt bullet by cutting back on government expenses in the 1990s but those needing brain surgery still head to the U.S. Folks who think high taxes is the right path to get free healthcare and other services miss the economic fundamental that the productive members of society (the producers) will work less and produce less as their tax rates exceed 50%. Take away the economic incentive for individuals and businesses to produce is a formula for disaster, one that will produce a whole lot less for everyone, including the job you so dearly need to pay for the other things that government doesn't provide.

Jerry,

More Americans who are uninsured or underinsured are going to other countries for their surgeries and proceedures every day. It is cheaper to fly to a foreign country and pay than the unaffordable 20-30% balance let alone if you can no longer afford US healthcare. The choice can be between losing your house or driving 500 miles to Canada for your Chemotherapy.

jkh

Capital,

Your statement has absolutely no basis in US history. When the US economy and industry was at its peak from the 1940s through the 1970s the top bracket ranged from 91% to 70%. The capital gains rates ranged from 25 to 35%. When top brackets and capital gains are high money is invested in long term investment like factories and equipment when brackets are low investments are made in the stock market creating bubbles and short term profit taking. You want to get in and out before tax rates rise and call them a capital gain at 15% (see Mitt Romney). This is one of the enormous fallacies of trickle down investments are always made in the most advantageous manner and what we have done for 30 years is job killing and non productive. I am amazed when people such as yourselves espouse media talking points with out spending 5 minutes of research to support your position. ( Sean Hannity is not research)

jkh

Why in the world would her parents be responsible for the medical bill? If she's dead, she's dead. Family members should have no obligation to pay her debt.

"You don't have to stay in a crappy job just because it has insurance".

Let me be the devil's advocate here. That's the point. We want a lot of little people, we want you to have to stay in a crappy job that doesn't pay just because it has insurance, and make a career out of it. Somebody has got to do it. The system is rigged so that it works that way. Actually without college tuition help, we can make sure it stays that way, you stay stuck at the bottom of the bag. And if you screw up in life with a college education we'll tag a record on you that will send you back there as well, thanks to the rule of law, credit ratings and the vast array of tricks which are not forgiving. There is no forgivemess for the little people. If I could I would make you roast in Hell. Also I encourage war, weapons, destruction and pain. ah aha ha.... I love my punitive system and watching you worm.

You make a lot of good points. I'm not being facetious when I say that you've personally changed my mind about universal health care.

Agreed, homesick yank. I've been living in Malaysia for three years now. Medical and dental care here is excellent and just laughably cheap. You can pay more and go to a shiny, fancy private hospital, or go to a perfectly good government-subsidized one and pay less (or nothing). The quality of care here is good enough that Malaysia is becoming a destination for medical tourism from Western countries. Even Singaporeans, with their outstanding healthcare system, routinely travel up to Malaysia for elective procedures and care since the costs are so much lower than in Singapore.

Even if you choose a fancy private hospital, the costs are still so much cheaper than those in the US. One of the top hospitals in Kuala Lumpur is the Prince Court Medical Center. A private room there only costs RM150 a day, which is less than US$50. A basic room in a US hospital can easily cost 5-6 times that much. See their awesome website here: princecourt.com/rooms-and-suites.php.

My mother flew over here a couple of years ago and my dentist/dental surgeon (UK-educated, fully licensed and awesome, I might add) took care of all her dental issues for literally 1/10th the cost she was quoted back in the States.

Here's the thing people don't always realize when it comes to healthcare: When it's a multi-billion dollar industry like it is in America, and so many people have their hands in the pot, its in the system's best interest NOT to really heal you. They want you to come in for a huge battery of tests, they want to observe, they want to prescribe, they want to admit you for a procedure... do you need it? Will it cure your ailment? Probably not. Their vested interest is in keeping you coming back. When a healthcare system isn't utterly driven by profit (and lots of it), the focus shifts to prevention and cure. Amazing!

Well said, Homesick Yank. It was only because of the lobbying influence of all the medical insurance companies and pharmacutical industry who have bought our politicians, especially the "Pro-Business" GOP party of NO, pulling every string to kill the single payer option, that we have the bazterdized half-measure legislation that they have labeled "Obamacare". Too bad Obama and the Democrats didn't just push through a full blown Nationalized Health Care System when they had the chance. Those who naively believe the con job from the GOP about "evil socialized medicine" will one day wake up either bankrupt or dead from not being able to afford the care they need. Very sad.

Excellent comment Homesick. But I'd like to point out, hospitals here in the US are not all so pretty, really depends on what neighborhood you live in....

Gina - the neighborhood (small city) that I live in has one hospital. In the last multi-million dollar expansion what was created was office space, 3 additional elevators, a very nice reception and registration area and a huge atrium - open space 5 stories high that looks beautiful but contributes nothing whatsoever to the quality of medical care available and in fact ended up reducing beds. There are a lot of old, gray looking hospitals in this country I agree especially in urban areas but it is still frustrating when I get a hospital bill to know that a chunk of what I am paying for is 5 stories of air.

The middleman is the for profit insurance companies and that is who has to be crushed and disposed of. The for profit hospitals are a pain in the arse too. Both are in it for profit and shareholders.

It's unfortunate that Kiefer Sutherland doesn't speak out about Canada's healthcare, as it was his grandfather, Tommy Douglas who led the first social democratic government and introduced single payer, universal health care to Canada. In a survey on who they considered the greatest Canadian, Canadians voted Douglas first largely in support of his advocacy of universal health care in Canada.

I read the Tommy Douglas wiki page some time ago -- interesting. It is where I learned about connection to Sutherland.

I'm an American living in Belgium and I love the healthcare system here. My general practitioner has walk-in hours. When I visit my doctor, I give him 25 euros. He fills out a piece of paper, I take it to my public health insurer and am immediately reimbursed for most of the cost. Then I take the paper to my private health insurer and the remainder is reimbursed. I don't need to waste hours on the phone asking why something wasn't covered.

Hospitals don't need to be 'pretty'. They do need to be up to date on safety and health standards and have updated equipment. I think the hospitals here are not very pretty at all but the care and the equipment are like what I've seen in one American hospital I had to stay at after a surgery. People also stay in the hospital slightly longer than American patients to avoid further infections.

Sure, it's more taxes out of my paycheck, but it doesn't matter who you are, you will ONE DAY need to use that healthcare system, whether it's a severe cold or cancer or just the stuff that comes with aging. I agree that the way to pave the road for universal healthcare in America needs to start small and needs to make sense. I can't believe that before I moved to Europe, I was one of those who was against universal healthcare. I love America and will continue to pay my taxes there but it is difficult for me to even consider ever moving back. I don't need to worry about how healthcare costs will be covered for me, my family, and the future grandchildren. I can't help but think that some people are so worried about that aspect of their life that they literally worry themselves sick right into the hospital.

Works in practice, but not in theory, you dirty socialist!

HERSH: You fail to mention that those in Canada who are willing and/or able to pay still have the option of seeking health care elsewhere? What part of "50 Million Americans do not receive decent health care" do you folks on the Right no comprehend. That is 1/6 of our population.

We have a for profit system. Shall we privatize the military, police and fire depts' as well??? Some things in this world should not be for profit and health care is one of them.

Hersh, sorry but I don't buy that. I'm Canadian, I've had lots of elderly relatives spend time in the hospital and they were NEVER tossed aside or refused treatment regardless of prognosis. NEVER.

lil Hersh says" . I do not want the government dictating when and when not I get treatment."

So you think having a for profit Insurance company some how has your best interest at heart and doesn't dictating when or how you get treated? I have a question for you. How did you pay for his liver cancer treatment here? You ether have money and lots of it or you stiffed us with the bill or you're lying.

OK if Canada has such great health care then why don't they pay the U.S. hospital bills? Was she not a Canadian Citizen? Guess what when a American goes to Canada and has no proof of insurance they will not even treat you at a Canadian Hospital, you die at the hospital and they could care less.

So the hospital should just forward the bill to the Canadian Health Care System and they should have no problem paying it, should they? Its one of their own, so what that she wasn't in her home country at the time. Pay up! Pay up! Pay up!

but if we were in canada zero care without proof, now that is nothing like our fine us health care system that denies no one treatment and tries to get the money later.

they can't force her parents to pay her bills, she was a adult. tell the hospital to get lost. at 18 you are a legal adult and responsible for your own bills.

What part of "50 Million Americans do not receive decent health care" do you folks on the Right no comprehend. That is 1/6 of our population

That statement is completely FALSE. It's actually 30 million and this number includes illegal immigrants, but the reason why it's FALSE is because EVERY AMERICAN GETS HEALTH CARE PERIOD, no one gets turned away. It's 30 million that don't have health INSURANCE. Within the 30 million are people who are in transition and the vast majority of these people will be getting insurance in the future. Again there isn't a certain 30 million people in the USA that go habitually with out insurance for ever, that means thet more than 90 percent of people, including illegals, have health insurance in this country and they don't wait in ridiculos lines or pay exhorbatant taxes for health care. That's pretty good in my book..

So many misconceptions about Canadian healthcare. Canadians do NOT ask the government if they need treatment. They go to their doctor. The doctor prescribes and the government pays. No where in that process does the doctor asks the government if it if okay the patient gets treatment.

It is a SINGLE payer system, NOT a government run healthcare. The government pays, but the doctors diagnose and provide the treatment!

Matt - you are correct - if you show up at the emergency room you will recieve emergency care. However, if you need advanced treatment such as a transplant, you are not getting that without insurance. Our system effectively separates the supposed "worthy" from the "unworthy" based on ability to pay or buy insurance. If you have neither, you are getting comfort care. You will be kept alive for awhile by going to the emergency room every time you have a medical crisis due to inadequate chronic care and ERs are the most expensive delivery system we have.

Concerned Americans Unite's comment is spewing more BS. No truth to it.

Canadian hospitals do not leave you to die if you don't provide proof of insurance.

I also agree with 80sGirl with regard to lil Hersh's comment which is total BS.

Anita-The comment about transplants is just not true. My sister had cystic fibrosis, diagnosed when she was born, had her first double lung transplant when she was 5 and her second one when she was 9. She couldn't get any kind of medical insurance or life insurance because she was diagnosed at birth. And she was never turned away from any kind of treatment whatsoever.

Ok, what are we talking about here... the medical expenses of this woman or the U.S. healthcare system?

First of all, I'm American, and I live in Canada... for over 10 years. Given the risky sport and the high likelihood of injury due to this woman's sport, she should have purchased travellers insurance and then this article wouldn't have been so stupidly written, she would have been covered by her provincial plan and this wouldn't have been an issue. This was irresponsible on the part of this skiier, and she was WELL AWARE of this. Anytime you purchase airline tickets or plan to leave the country, it is ALWAYS offered. My husband is Canadian, and when we travel from here to the U.S., he always takes out a policy. It's affordable, so I don't want to hear that she couldn't afford it. You can't afford not to.

Second, for all of you who think Canadians have it so great in the healthcare department, think again. I needed an MRI for a neck injury from years before and I was in so much pain, I could barely get through my day. I WAITED SIX MONTHS FOR MY MRI. It takes, on average in Ontario, more than 3 months to start chemo when you have cancer. My child has terrible allergies. We saw his doctor at the beginning of September and his allergy appointment is in the middle of March. One of my husband's co-workers had (HAD) a daughter that needed an operation due to a tumor on her lung dx'd and they weren't willing to do it due to what they claimed was a poor prognosis, so they watched her for over 6 months. Husband's co-worker watched his daughter get worse and worse, emptied his RRSP (retirement fund) and took her to a hospital in Boston where the operation was done. He was told, had they come sooner, they could have gotten all the tumor. She died on December 23, 2011 at the age of 29, and left behind a 2 year old daughter, who will never know her. Shall I go on? I've been here for over 10 years and I've got more stories like it. If you are healthy, this works for you. One thing I have to give them credit for is preventive care, but that doesn't help the countless people who aren't healthy, and need a test within a week, yet wait 6 months or more. There has to be a reason why Canadian politicians come to the U.S. for their healthcare.

Make no mistake. Healthcare here is not free. Not only have they added a $600.00 per person fee that is deducted from my husband's paycheck every month, but we also pay 13% tax on everything here, vehicles included so add that one up in your head, it's mind boggling, with the exception of children's clothing, which is 8%. Everything costs more here. Would it be great for everyone in the entire world to have adequate health insurance coverage? SURE!!!! What works for countries that are the same size of a state in the U.S., doesn't necessarily work for countries that have ten times the population of Canada, which is the U.S. We pay $75 to renew a driver's license every 5 years, and also pay that same amount to renew plates yearly, and it adds up. We are paying 1.25 a liter for gas which translates to, right now, $4.73 a gallon, and this price per liter right now, is a bargain from what it has been and government takes a HUGE chunk of that amount. So for those of you in the U.S. who are paying an average of $3.50 a gallon for gas, try shaking hands with paying over $2.00 a gallon more. I can go on and on.

Again, had this Canadian skiier done the right thing in her dangerous line of work and gotten travellers insurance or purchased supplemental insurance that most times covers you outside the U.S., she would have been covered and this ridiculous article that is attempting to cover two completely different issues, wouldn't have made it past the editor's desk. I have to wonder, due to her poor prognosis, if the Canadian healthcare system would have even operated on her in the first place. At least the hospital in the U.S. gave her a shot. So who picks bankruptcy over death because you had to wait an exhorbitant amount of time for lifesaving tests? I pick bankruptcy.

I don't think all of that commentary about Canada is fair, first of all you're talking about Ontario which is one of the higher tax jurisdictions. Second, compare the actual taxes you're paying on income (including payroll taxes). Consumer goods often cost more in relative terms in countries that don't use the US dollar simply because they don't use the US dollar and exporters in China will accept the US dollar in payment, but not other currencies like the Canadian dollar. Gas taxes are higher but imx public transport is also better in Canada overall than in the US (difficult to compare but overall I think it is true).

I don't actually think preventive care is that good in Canada, but it's not good in the US either. The Canadian healthcare system is not the best in the world (doesn't compare well with most European countries) but it does rank higher overall than the US. It's all well and good to say person A died from something, but if the alternative is that they have no health insurance in the US, then surely they were better off in Canada where they got at least some help?

"There has to be a reason why Canadian politicians come to the U.S. for their healthcare." - You're talking about Danny Williams, who was the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, which is by any reasonable standard a low population area with limited services and there's often a requirement for anyone who lives there to travel for healthcare.

One thing that is worth mentioning though is that at least Canada taxes you on your residency, rather than your citizenship, like the US does. And the US is the only country in the world that does that.

But yes, why didn't she have Blue Cross? Seems weird to me, I can only assume she spent so much time in the US she was considered a resident.

I agree as a Canadian living in Texas, I find the American system horrid, People die here all the time because of lack of healthcare. I go to CVS and pay $2 a RX with my Alberta Aetna plan, while my co-workers pay $50 an RX. I also get free gym membership and when I go home to visit I have a lll my dental and optical done. It is not a perfect system in Canada, but at least we care about each other, here in Texas they would rather one of their own die than shed a penny for their neighbours health.

Whats wrong with it being "socialized" You people act like that is some bad word. I bet you want your Social Security, Highway system, school system, etc etc. We have many socialized programs already so quite with the GOP Sara Palin scare tactics. The use of the word Socialism is simply the new McCarthyism, the rights Big bad bogie man.

yea, the Swiss are still living off some of that good ole Nazi loot money.

You fail to mention that the swiss insurance companies are requiered by law to offer a basic insurance plan that they are legally not allowed to make money off of.

I think I must be the only person commenting in these threads who has actually received healthcare treatment in all of these countries!

Swiss healthcare is not cheap either, travel insurance is a must. Switzerland is a bit odd from a healthcare standpoint because the insurers have agreements with hospitals in neighboring countries. One could argue that it is slightly subsidized by the surrounding countries as they don't have to build as many hospitals. Switzerland is however famous for all kinds of bizarre healthcare options if you've got the money.

With a torn artery in her neck and bleeding in the brain........you could say that the hospital prolonged her death and in the process built up a pretty large amount of costs and thus eventual profits.

It's my understanding that the hospital can only seek payment from her estate. Her parents would not be liable, since she was not a minor. That is what I have read in several columns regarding debts left by someone who has died.

PAWOMAN: What part??? How about the part where every other industrialized nation in the world offers their citizens this critical service except us, the wealthiest country in the world. I also take issue with your assumption that taxes will go up, though were that true, it would not deter me. Where does all the billions paid to insurances companies go? That money does nothing to enhance medical care. Imagine the services we could provide with all that wasted money.

Would you like your local police and fire dept. to be privatized? That way, when you're being mugged or your house is being robbed, unless you've paid up, you're on your own. That aint' the kind of American I want to live in. And lastly, does it not trouble you that 50 million Americans go without proper health care???

Why is it so hard for the right to understand that the government has NO SAY WHATSOEVER in our care (in Canada)? It's between me and my doctor. That's it. Why does the right insist on continuing to spout this LIE?

Yah man. Privatize it all. They be comin for ur SS soon enough. You wanna gamble with ur retirement $? Wall St does.

And how do you suppose you will take care of yourself when some kind of cancer or another decides to take root in your body, and by the time you discover it, major and expensive surgery and hospitalization is required? Are you going to ingest the assorted "cancer cure" mail-order herbs peddled by the legions of quacks and hope for the best? Or are you going to see the best cancer specialist possible for your condition? Of course, whether you can afford it or not, there are huge costs associated with this. Do you have insurance? If so, I guarantee that the sum total of all the premiums you ever paid into it won't cover two weeks in the hospital, so where is the rest of that money come from? Oh, that's right! Someone else healthier and not similarly afflicted and paying into the insurance pool will pay, as well as many, many others. If you don't have insurance, then those of us that do are paying for your care, not the government. What part of this is so difficult to understand for the right?

There are already some areas where fire department service has an annual fee. One family didn't pay the annual fee and watched their house go up in flames without a single drop of water being used. Their next door neighbor HAD paid the fee and the fire department prevented the embers that flew over to that house from doing major damage to THAT house. The fire department refused to take the annual fee in cash at the scene and just let the house burn up.

I bet if you were diagnosed with cancer tomorrow your tune would change! 700,000 people declared bankruptcy last year from medical debt. Even with insurance in this country if you, spouse or child was diagnosed with serious illness you run great risk of losing everything you own! That should NOT happen in the United States of America!

What is difficult to understand? The fact that I should have to pay for people like you who have no insurance. If you have an emergency you will go to a hospital and if you are treated they push your costs on to the rest of us. And by the way, Universal Health Care does not really raise taxes- at least not in Canada. The tax rate there is 28-33%. They put controls on how much meds cost, how much hospitals can charge and doctors as well. Of course, someone who wants to be a doctor in Canada can do so at a fraction of the cost as universities are heavily subsidized. Med school there a few years ago wasarounf $7-10,000 a year. Undergraduate studies about $3000.

PaWoman: Yes, canadians pay higher taxes but the cost of medical insurance is NOT included in their salary. In other words, in return for a slightly higher tax rate, they earn 10% or 20% or more in salary since their employer no longer has to pay for any part of their healthcare. This is not pie-in-sky math. If you get benefits through your employer, you can readily learn exactly what they are spending... my employer sends us a detailed letter each November prior to the open enrollment period telling us exactly how much they spend, both company-wide and on a per-employee basis. Unless you are in Mitt Romney's or Donald Trump's tax bracket, you would come out WAY ahead if you lived in Canada.

So taxes go up. If your insurance payment goes down or completely goes away what are you complaining about?

Medical care does cost a lot of money and so do wars....we have no problems with wars because they "protect us".....even if the wars are with countries that turn out not to have had the weapons of mass destruction we were all told they have..................but be that as it turned out, WHY are we still there with an embassy of 11,000 people and 5000 mercenaries.....ooops meant to say "contractors" to protect those "embassy" people.

Guess wars are much more acceptable than providing expensive health care but we will all be sick and dying but "very safe"

Work with WHO? The party of "NO" are you kidding? Maybe Obamacare is the answer. Romney used it in Massachusetts. The only good idea he had. Thanx Willard [The Rat]

Obama has already raised over 500 million for his re-election, so I guess he already bought it. Of course he will tell you it is $15.00 donations from regular people, except for the millions from unions, and banks, and wall street, and oil companies. And the $35,000.00 a plate dinners at celebrities homes. Wait, he doesn't like them. Doesn't speak to them. Except for the CEO of GE. His jobs Czar. Whose company earned 22 cents profit on every dollar they made, and paid 0 income tax. Nothing here folks, move along.

Azazel you are so right...Obama took on the massive load of crap brought on by warmonger Bush and cronie Cheney and NO BODY could have done better. Romney will gut the middle class just like he has done the businesses he has bought, gutted and dumped.

Allen-2635884

And Obama was elected to take care of it all...but what did he do? Added more bucks to it...his one and only Budget submitted to congress would have toppled the US...it was defeated by both DEMS and REPs in Congress.

So you voted for a do nothing president...tax and spend...and he is pushing down...meaning more people are being put into the lower class...and he supported wall street big time...

Bush should not have spent us, nor should have Obama...in 3 years Obama pushed up the debt more than what Bush did in 8 years.

Obama never submitted a balance budget to Congress as required by law. Issued massive EOs, massive regulation changes, and violated the constitution in more than one instance.

Now lets compare his number of vacations, golf games, WH parties, and look at his visitor guest sheet, eh?

jobs? none...green jobs none...oil pipeline decision really dumb decision by Obama, so says the Union.

My dog could have done better on that one little area of the DEBT...

Corporations are people.

Romney is a serial killer.

This may seem out of place, but the injuries this skilled young woman received would have been fatal no matter what country she was in, no matter what insurance she did or did not have, or how much health care could have been given to her.

I'm sorry for her death, because I hate to see any young healthy person die.

False. For an alleged Cannuck, you know nothing of Canada's healthcare system. If an American or anybody else gets sick in Canada, they get treatment, no questions asked. Heck, even Sarah Palin admitted that, as a child, her family traveled from home in Alaska to Canada for free healthcare.

Nightwalker: Your comment is out of place because that is not the point of this article. The point is not whether this woman did or did not get appropriate care. The point of this article is that, in the United States, people who suffer major illnesses or traumatic injuries (whether on a ski slope or crossing the street)... oftentimes people who thought they had good health insurance... can quickly find themselves facing bankruptcy.

Here is the other side of the coin: Natasha Richardson had a ski accident in Canada and died. There was some discussion as to whether if it had happened in the U.S. with better access to better healthcare-whether she would have lived. My feeling is that when people travel and live in countries other than their own, they need to make sure they either will have access to health care there, or provide for it by insurance. Health care is very expensive-especially life-saving health care. Who do you think should pay for it?

MIKE: There's nothing to "get". We're stupid, that's all and that's why the GOP relies on half the country being stupid and thus, voting for them and their inane policies.

They all watch Faux news no doubt. Ewwww!!!

No' but they troop across the border when they can't get the care they want or don't want to wait a couple of years for what they need.

Vernon Hickman: Actually, only the very rich in Canada troop across the border on occasion because they are appalled that their wealth buys them NOTHING in Canada. If they need a hip replaced or other elective and/or non-emergency surgery, they are expected to wait their turn because the Canadian system treats everybody equally, rich or poor. So, yeah, if you are a billionaire plutocrat, Canada's system might suck because you will be treated just like the unwashed masses. Aside from the billionaires, there are exponentially MORE Americans sneaking into Canada to get healthcare there rather than the other way around.

Sorry, Dude, but FoxNews isn't always particularly truthful. You got suckered.

She was in a high risk occupation/sport. About two seconds from death at all times during training or competition. Heck I am over 35 and I (still) snowboard, but I realize I could break my neck or hit something at any instant. I made sure before 35 I got life insurance and the thought of lifelong paralysis goes through my head as soon as I get off the lift...who would pay for my medical costs. Should you?

I love to board, but I no longer do anything fancy and I take it leisure. Same with my love of ATV and jet skiis.

In all honesty, they should charge me more for my health premiums since I am doing this stuff. It takes a great deal of luck to put yourself at such risk for the sake of your enjoyment of a sport and no other reason. If you do it for anything other than that, then it is a high risk occupation and plan accordingly.

They just die before they get their treatment

Mike from Oakland Park, I may not be from Canada, but I have been hospitalized and had 51 surgeries to date for Spina Bifida. I have had surgeries in many major cities in the US, and in Detroit which is right over the border from Canada. A great many of the skilled nurses and doctors I had for treatment lived in Canada and chose to work in the US. I dont believe its because of the great sights and red wings games. It was because the Canadian system doesnt work, doesnt pay, and for that reason they lose skilled and talented people all the time to other countries.

Please research and we can discuss off line if you wish. I would ask how many speciality procedures you have had in your life? I am betting not many. I have seen specialists from many countries at big hospitals, you know how many Canadian hospitals were recommended..ZERO Please advise us of a basic overview of your medical experiences and history.

And no I am not looking for sympathy, I have walked the walk, I know what I speak of.

Exactly. Canada should pick up the bill, since they insure her. And traveller's insurance should be a requirement for all foreign visitors to the United States; they should have to show it with their passport.

I've got a better idea: when someone suffers a catastrophic accident or needs medical care of any kind, the American Medical System, just as is done in Canada and practically all other countries in Europe, should cover them against these illnesses and accidents.

RBTatt - It is easy for you to say that everyone in the country should have health care coverage, just as it would be easy to say that everyone should get three meals a day, and everyone should have a roof over their head. But what you (and all of those sign posts in Zuccotti Park) fail to realize is that these things don't grow on trees - someone must be there to provide medical coverage, someone must grow the food, and someone must build the house. Are you doing any of these things?

So, since you apparently have the good ideas, how do you propose we expand health care coverage to all citizens, both nationals and foreigners? Because unfortunately, even under our current health care system, flawed as it may be, there is already a shortage of doctors and nurses, and this shortage is only projected to increase over time. And universal health care won't change this reality, it will just lead to more people lining up to see the doctors and nurses that are available, resulting in longer waiting times, deteriorating quality, and rising costs.

If you want universal health care, then go study medicine, and bring a few hundred thousand other people with you. But short of any measures which significantly increase the number of doctors in this country, UHC is nothing more than an over-simplified, idealistic dream.

I think the Canadian National health system should pick up the bill. That is what the author should be bitching about but she is obviously an advocate of Socialized Medicine.

The Canadian healthcare system did pick up a portion of the bill. The thing is that our system only pays for what the associated costs of the care recieved would be in Canada.

God bless America --

"Exactly. Canada should pick up the bill, since they insure her. And traveller's insurance should be a requirement for all foreign visitors to the United States; they should have to show it with their passport"

That would mean 'mandating' insurance. You know - that word 'mandating' that you despise as spewed by the Rethugs and the morons from the FOX Hole station.

As you despise 'mandating' insurance in the U.S. -- ST*U about what other countries should do. Canadians didn't ask for your verbal diarrhea opinion.

and Azazels is one righteous guy who never messes up, you are judgemental and full of hate, very critical and not seeing the reality that no one is really safe, you want a perfect utopian controlled system where everything is fair. The way you talk it is no wonder the GOP gets voters who try to their best to be half way decent, your mouth and form of communication is not going to win people over to your insightful genius idealoogy. Rebellion only divides, paying attention to the chaos solely, maybe it never was about anyone getting more or their fair share but the people who would be humble and with little being thankful and live servant hood live and small wages and not looking for much else but a small amount of coverage with a small company or a large one, but media and the Hollywood cult flashing all the nonsense and dead human material temporal images and making people think life is something it is not, everyone can afford a moral obedient life, mankind with its out of balance freedom has no idea what he/she does and is forgiven if he so receives the gift, otherwise perish with the man made wisdom of fools that may seem right but it is in fact destruction.

Where is this healthcare? This is an accident, it has nothing to do with HEALTHcare. Last I checked there is a risk to snowboarding. What does the "X" stand for in X-Games? She could have bought insurance to cover this and she chose not to. This women was 29 years old, and the news is going to claim her family will go bankrupt if it isn't paid. How are they liable? People are responsible for their own actions and if they choose not to buy insurance, then deal with the consequences. Then to say a little girl is dying because of the system. Sounds like she got the treatment, who has turned her away? Again the parents chose NOT to buy insurance. Consequences follow every action, good or bad. States have uninured pools so dont say she couldn't get insurance. The system isn't broken, it is the idiots writing about it that is messed up. Hospital Charges are x times higher in the US because Medicare is paying too little, people are using the system who dont pay a dime (taxes included) so the rest of us who are responsbile, and pay taxes (the private system) gets to pay inflated prices to cover for the government shortfalls and for the ones who dont pay squat. Go back to the 30's and 40s and other countries where folks where embarassed to be on government assistance and wanted off of it as fast as they got on it. I am trying to figure out why Obama is saying we will get more people back to work. Healthcare is free, unemployment is extended, and extended, food stamps, subsidized rent, subsidized heat, free housing, own a home and dont need to even show the aiblity to pay it back or put a dime down, cash for clunkers here is your new car...why does anyone need to work. You think healthcare is expensive now...just wait until it is free!

I'm kinda wondering about that too...the part where her family is liable. I'm guessing the family was pushed into some sort of consent form that obligated them to pay or she wouldn't get all the treatment she needed? These days you can't go to a new doctor without signing pages of forms......most which state you will pay....very tricky they are these days.

Whats the beef? We have Obamacare. Oh yeah I forgot Obama was MUCH more interested in creating a huge health care bureaucracy than he was in actually providing health care coverage to people. The bureaucracy has been built but of course we still don't have coverage for anyone even though it has been almost two years since Obamacare passed. The US government can't do this effeciently, maybe some other governments are capable, the US government has demonstrated that it is not competent. It can't run Social Security, Medicare, or even the Post office.
We could probably figure out a way to cover more people, but not until our southern border is secure, and the US government has to get out of it. There is no way those people in Washington can do this, they haven't even been able to pass a budget since Obama took office.

Everybody has the right to health. It is not socialism. It is compassion. No where in the civilized world do politicians on the right pillory any form of government health care as the start of the slippery slope to communism except in America. In my country no politicians would be silly enough to condemn universal access to health care. Any politician in your country who invites you to die because you cannot be treated should not be elected. Romney introduced a form of universal health care as governor. As a candidate for president he has avoided talking about this great accomplishment. The right wing electorate is responsible for lowering the intelligence and candor of right wing politicians. You cannot exercise any form of freedom if you are suffering from an illness that you cannot afford to get treated. A free person is well nourished and healthy. Society has an interest in promoting this concept.

How can the congress pass anything if there are there to say no to everything? Doh! And healthcare in America has always been expensive anyway. If you pay or not, the ones paying taxes pay your bill so whether there in Universal healthcare or not, someone has to pay higher bills at the hospital to cover the unpaid bills.

Or USA can be like most 3rd world countries, just live the patients at the gates and let them die. Rich people living is a poor country is what the United States is becoming. Not everyone can be success, but I believe most people in this country who get the opportunity do.If you lived in Germany, their Rich don't want to live in a poor country so they pay taxes and not avoid it in some Swiss-Bank or some little Island somewhere like Mitt-the- I'M a MORMON.

The Congress Right-Wing-Haters have already told the American people why they where send there, "TO MAKE SURE OBAMA IS NOT RE-ELECTED" so America! You elected them, keep enjoying what a rich few can and will control, and that's YOU.

When doctors are assured of being paid they will charge less to each patient. Most doctors where universal health care does not exist have fewer patients because many cannot afford to pay her. She will therefore charge more to the patients she does see. The cost of health care goes down over time when it is made universal. What works for the world will work wonders for America. Do not fall victim to political scare tactics about how it will cost too much. That is a lie. It is evil because it forgets all the poor children and elderly who will die because they cannot afford to pay for minimal health care. It is a lie because all they have to do is copy working universal health care system in another world that has been around for 25 years without bankrupting the country. Who can have good nights sleep knowing so many dishonest men seek the presidency.

Why most good Canadian Drs go to the states, overworked, underpaid in Canada. And their health care sucks!!!!