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Competitors at the Winter X Games in Aspen, Colo. adorned themselves with items in rememberance of Canadian skier Sarah Burke who died from injuries she sustained in a training accident in Park City, Utah in January.
Updated at 6:20 p.m. ET: A spokesman for Monster Beverage Co. said skier Sarah Burke, one of the athletes it sponsors, did not receive insurance coverage from the company before her fatal accident in Utah.
"Sponsors in general do not provide insurance for the athletes, who are independent contractors. In many contracts if not most, the athletes sign an agreement saying they understand that it is a dangerous sport and that they are responsible for their own well-being," said Roger Pondel, from the public relations company PondelWilkinson in Los Angeles. "That is fairly standard throughout the industry."
"The company is continuing to support (Burke's) family," Pondell said, but he declined to give details, "in deference to the privacy of the family."
Original post: On Monday, msnbc.com published a story on a fund drive that had raised more than $300,000 to cover the medical costs for Sarah Burke, a 29-year-old professional skier from Canada who died after a training accident in Park City, Utah.
The story pointed out that Burke’s family was facing a disaster familiar to uninsured Americans — a mountain of medical expenses on top of personal tragedy. As a number of readers pointed out, the story raises a question: Why was a professional skier with corporate sponsors not covered by insurance?
Because Burke was Canadian, wouldn’t she have been covered by Canada’s universal health care system? The answer is yes — and no.
Had the accident occurred in Canada, Burke, who lived near the western Canadian ski mecca of Whistler, British Columbia, would have been covered for 100 percent of her medical care through public health insurance, according to Ryan Jabs, manager of media relations for the Ministry of Health in British Columbia.
That national health insurance policy applies outside the country too, he said, but only pays for what the services would have cost in Canada — typically only a fraction of what the services cost in the United States.
“If someone is traveling outside Canada, we encourage them to get third-party insurance” to cover the difference, said Jabs.
Burke’s husband has not pursued insurance claims from the government so far, Jabs said, adding that he still has the option to do so. He said the University of Utah hospital where Burke was cared for had been in contact with the health ministry but he could not disclose details.
Daniel Dal Zennaro / EPA
Canada's Sarah Burke celebrating on the podium after winning the women's halfpipe freestyle FIS World Cup Grand Finals in Chiesa Valmalenc, Italy in 2008.
Burke also had $5 million in medical coverage through the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, a largely government-funded body that fields Olympic competitors in the sport.
"It’s a really good policy — one used by most athletic associations in Canada," said Kelley Korbin, media relations manager for the association. But she said that the policy covers only sanctioned events and training where association coaches are present. “This was a private sponsored event, so none of our certified trained coaches were there."
Burke’s event — half-pipe skiing — was added as an Olympic event just last spring, said Korbin, so top half-pipe athletes like Burke had a history of performing in commercially sponsored events. Half-pipe skiers compete in a half-cylinder-shaped course dug deep into the hill. With speed gained on the slope, skiers come up over the rim of the pipe and perform acrobatic aerial tricks, winning by executing the most difficult tricks with the best form. Burke was defending champion for the women's halfpipe in the annual Winter X Games.
The Jan. 10 accident that took Burke’s life occurred during training at Park City Mountain Resort in Utah, as part of a freeskiing team sponsored by the U.S.-based Monster Energy drink company. She was rushed to the University of Utah Hospital and treated for a ruptured vertebral artery — one of four that supply blood to the brain. Surgery and subsequent care ultimately failed to save her. She died Jan. 19 because of a lack of oxygen to the brain.
Why no insurance?
The biggest unanswered question is why Monster or Burke’s agent, Michael Spencer, apparently had not arranged for insurance coverage for Burke.
"It’s hard to believe Park City would allow someone to come and do an event without proving that you have liability insurance,” said Korbin, of the Canada’s freestyle association. "For sure at Whistler (ski resort in Canada), we have to prove that each competitor there has Canadian freestyle insurance. Otherwise they don’t want to take on their liability on their hill."
California-based Monster Beverage company did not respond to phone calls about insurance coverage for Burke, who the company was sponsoring for the Winter X Games. Michael Spencer, Burke’s agent, who set up the donations page to help the family with medical costs, also did not respond to queries from msnbc.com by phone and email.
Park City Mountain Resort had not yet responded to queries from msnbc.com about its policy on insurance coverage for events as of the writing of this article.
Patterson notes that it’s difficult to get policy underwriting for medical coverage on some sports, like mixed martial arts, for instance, where injury is virtually certain.
"To me it’s unfathomable that she wouldn’t have had someone covering this, especially competing at that level," said Derek Patterson, owner of eGlobalHealth Insurances Agency, in Springfield, Missouri, which provides specialized coverage for athletes, war-zone contractors and other clients in hazardous conditions. “Sometimes people have the assumption that they are covered, but then find out it is not the case."
"Someone didn’t put (coverage) in place," said Greg Sutton of Sutton Special Risk, a specialized insurance broker in Toronto. "The broker or the agent — someone should have recognized that there would have been a gap because the event was unsanctioned."
Addendum: In our previous story, we noted that uninsured Americans are frequently pushed to bankruptcy by the cost of medical care for catastrophic illness or accident. An email from GiveForward, a donation appeals site mentioned in the story, said that the site currently has about 1,500 pages posted by people who were struggling to raise money for health care costs.
Press reports initially estimated the cost of Burke's intensive medical care at about $500,000, though later it was revised downward, to about $200,000. A fundraising page on GiveForward.com shows that donors have contributed $305,483 to help the family cover the costs.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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Typical Nanny state mentality. Someone else will take care of me.
She should have ensured that she had coverage for the high risk sport she was in.
Or maybe she was unaware as typically management takes care of those kind of details. Nice show of sympathy on your part. How many young people are fully aware of all the insurance laws and loopholes? Did you know at that age? Unlikely.
Just more Nanny State preaching on your part. No personal responsibility.
Yes, because personally responsible also means not caring when someone else is in a rough situation (or in this case dies and their family is left with hundred of thousands in bills for their dead daughter). How did you get to be so classy? Just more narcissistic preaching on your part.
oh look - a selfish idiot weighed in.
No, Ralph, she had a lot of insurance. The problem is that insurance companies will find any way NOT TO PAY. There was a "gap" in the coverage not covering the "event" she was in. This is insurance at its worst!
You pay for years only to find out when you need it - they will not pay!
Why should an insurance company insure someone who is temting fate to the extent that these extreme sports figures do. I would not insure a person who is making a choice to participate in a death defying sport. This is a no brainer. If you choose to do that, make sure you have the funding in the event that you do have an accident.
I can't wait to see Ralph ending up in a bad situation. Chances are he'll cry and whine about how nobody will help him.
Michael....1st, this WOMAN was 29 yrs old...so her family IS NOT responsible for her medical bills...that claim would be against her estate....and if she had an estate, she doesnt need the 300,000 plus in donations.
2nd, her sport of choice was an extremely expensive one, so it was irresponsibility on her AND her familys part to allow her to participate without proper insurance.
IMHO, although her death is trajic, it sounds like someone is trying to make a buck off of milking sympathy from the public.
it's rediculous for the fans to pay for the medical expenses. she really didn't make enough money to pay her own expenses? or her husband can't pay.
im with ralph here. you know if you have insurance and you know if you don't. it's not rocket science. to be in a professional sport where injuries are a common occurence and basically inevitable without having any coverage is kind of irresponsible. you can place the blame on anyone but the fact is, we are all human beings and we all make mistakes. nothing you can do to change to past, only the future. my condolences go out to the family though. its always difficult when you lose a loved one but there will be better days ahead and an even brighter star in the sky
She was 29, not a child, and in a well paying sport. She should have had health insurance. I am also an independent contractor and have to pay for my own health insurance every month. I feel terrible for the loss her family is suffering but it is just a fact that she or someone within her close circle should have known that she should have health insurance. It just doesn't make any sense. It's nice to see that people are reaching out but there is no question that it was her responsibility to ensure that her medical needs would be met should she have an accident...just like the rest of us less talent hard working folks have to.
Here is the key phrase.
That national health insurance policy applies outside the country too, he said, but only pays for what the services would have cost in Canada — typically only a fraction of what the services cost in the United States.
They are saying that medical services in the US are outlandishly high compared to Canada. With their health care system that covers everyone the same procedures cost a whole lot less than in the US. The US health care system is 100% PROFIT DRIVEN. That is why everything is so damned high. In Canada it's not profit driven and works better. You don't have families going bankrupt to get medical care like you do in the US and that is with insurance in the US.
I would take Canadian health care any day over the overly priced greed based health care we have in the US.
She was 29 years old. Why would her parents be responsible for anything? She wasn't married. She is a legal entity unto herself, not a dependent and no dependents. Her estate covers the bills, not here parents.
She was 29 years old.
Why would someone else be responsible for giving her health insurance?
She was 29 years old. She was not a teenager.
At what age are you old enough to take responsibility? It thought that 18 was the legal age. If you don't know that you are responsible at that age, perhaps the school system has failed.
She was 29 years old.
Lots of companies sponsor lots of athletes and/or events.
If a company sponsors a football game (Tostitos, for example), are they responsible for insuring everyone that is participating? If not, how many have to be involved? If there are just 1 or 2, do they have to insure? If there are 5, do they have to insure? Or, is that 'ridiculous', because there are too many?
I love the whiners on here that want to blame the insurance company.
First off, it is the responsibility of the individual to MAKE SURE that they understand what is covered with their insurance and what is not. Don't blame the insurance company because you are too stupid or too lazy to bother to verify the facts.
Secondly, considering how dangerous her sport is, she was lucky to even have ANY insurance to begin with. Most private insurance companies will not cover someone who is an extremely high risk and the fact that Burke had any insurance coverage at all is impressive.
And last, but definitely not least...the fact that this woman CHOSE to engage in such a dangerous activity doesn't give me a lot of sympathy for her family. If you choose to be a daredevil, don't cry when the butcher's bill comes due. You chose your path. Deal with it.
And as for people like CaerRaven, feel free to wish me ill. You will NEVER see me complain about how nobody will help me. Unlike you and most of the other whiners and enablers in this world, I don't expect your help. I don't want it and I sure as hell don't NEED it.
Feel free to call me selfish. At least I'm responsible...unlike the vast majority of the human race.
Why would it be her parents responsibility? She was an adult.
HA HA....like we all need to pay insurance coverage for 'professionals' that fall off ice cliffs and ski dangerously...however regretful for such a tragedy, my heart DOES go out...but.....
NO THANKS!
Hey Wizard--have fun finding out what is and is not covered under your insurance policy. I have had multiple occasions of being told that something was covered only to find out that the word "covered" was being used in an extremely weaselly way. The last "covered" surgery (which we deliberately delayed, despite it being medically necessary, until assured by the insurer that it would be covered) wound up costing us $3K. They tried to bill us $10K, originally, knowing that eventually when they covered just $6K of it, we would be grateful to have the bill lowered. It's a nasty trick--but have fun doing anything about it.
It is always the people who run around whining that they are so knowledgeable and powerful and completely perfect who eventually will run around crying when they find out that someone has lied to them or cheated them. You can call this "responsible"--I call it hubris.
You will find out eventually--or your family will find out. I don't have to wish you ill--nearly all of us have health problems eventually, and you are not likely to be an exception, given your terribly Type A personality. In fact, you are more likely to have problems than most. So, enjoy it when you find out--insurance companies lie. They lie all the time. They cheat, and they steal. I don't see it as "whining" to point out when it is patently obvious that allowing health care to be profit-driven is foolish.
Enjoy that feeling of omniscience and omnipotence fueled by narcissism--which you call "responsibility"--it isn't going to last.
One thing that I do Know is that she is loved in the US.She will be RECOGNIZED for WHo she is in OUR COUNTRY
WOW at the liberal spin on this story. if canadas health care is so great, why wasn't she shipped back to canada so they could take care of her?
I love how the article isn't about not treating someone because they don't have insurance, like the media has tried to lie about in the past. No, this is now about, why she didn't have enough and how Americas healthcare still sucks even though she was treated.
I guarantee that if I was a daredevil, and I asked some liberal for money after I got hurt because I didn't have insurance, they wouldn't help me. They would probably call me a dumbass. The liberal wouldn't want their money taken either. Take it from the rich they would say. LOL
Wow Ralph ... you're a real dick.
This is a national shame that medical care is so expensive in the US. Why the hell is that? We spend per capita at least twice as much an any other industrialized country and there are still 50 million of our population that is not covered. Canada has a standard of living better than ours, why the hell is their health care so much less expensive? These health care costs in this country need to be rolled back.
Why ? Because American taxpayers pay enough already and our politicians have pillaged us for years. Come on now, if I do risky things for sport or fun am I to expect others (taxpayers) to pay if something goes wrong. While many of the people that would be made to pay through higher taxes and higher premiums for their insurance don't take those risks so they don't need to have others pay. It is great that fans and others donated money for her bills and that is the way it should be, we should all help others when we can and charity is just fine. But don't force us to pay for every ones medical with government mandates and higher taxes that the politicians will just waste and mismanage as usual, like they do with every other government program.
Where is that socialist Canadian Healthcare? Why would anyone be so foolish to think that their government plan wouldn't cover all their needs? Look what we have to look forward to!
Yes, I am sorry that this tragedy occurred and I feel for the family. Maybe they need a good ambulance chaser, to go after her manager (agent) for not seeing to her insurance needs.
Why would the parents of a deseased 29 year old feel as if they were in any part responsible for any medical bills she had? They owe nothing, period. Who is going to pay the hospital? We are in higher insurance premiums, just like anyone else that gets shot or hit by a car. Sad but true.
For those of you questioning why her family would be liable for her medical expenses if she is over 18, they're talking about her husband, not her parents. She was married, and your spouse is legally liable for your debts. Her parents would not be liable, only her estate and her husband.
I feel for her family and husband - they've lost someone they loved! It was a risky sport she chose to pursue, and she died doing what she loved. Most of us aren't that lucky.
She was a grown woman of 29 (well past a "young person" age), and should have taken the responsibility of making sure she was covered. She made a bad choice to participate in an unsanctioned event without the proper coverage. The responsibility lies with her.
Regardless of the whole insurance issue, the reality is that if this accident had happened in Canada there is a pretty good chance that she would have been flown to the nearest US hospital for treatment. The socialized medicine system in Canada and Europe is not the panacea that people try and make it out to be. They deal with extremely long delays to see specialists as well as for any surgery that is considered elective. You can literally wait months to see a specialist and for non-critical surgeries. In addition to these problems, the extent of life saving efforts made are often determined at least in part by cost considerations. They are not as likely to go to the heroic efforts that US hospitals will to try and save someone, particularly if the person is going to require permanent care if they do make it. It can also effect things like the extent they will go to do something like save a crushed limb. They may decide that it makes more sense to just amputate the limb then expend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to save it. While things like this do also happen in the US because of insurance companies, it is much rarer. When you go the economy route for health care, too many decisions are made because of the money. You can also pretty much forget about ever getting a second opinion on anything. The socialized medicine systems in Canada and Europe may provide everyone with coverage, but it is not the same level of health care we get here in the US. Also, in England anyone who can afford it carries separate private insurance so that they do not have to use the public health system. This is because the care in the private hospitals is so far superior to what the masses get in the public system. Also, take a look at how many wealthy people from Europe as well as the rest of the world fly to the US for treatment when ever they have a serious health problem. Before you go touting the socialized medicine system in Canada and Europe, do some reading and talk to some of the people who have to use it!
She, or those around her should have made certain that she had appropriate medical coverage. Someone failed miserably in their job to allow her to compete without being covered. In any case, her parents are not responsible for her bill, her estate would be. The parents do not need the help they are being given because the bill is not their responsibility. If she had a family of her own, it would be a different story. It does sound like she was married, so it is her husband who would have to deal with the bills and, depending on Canadian law, might be responsible for anything not covered by the Canadian health system insurance. However, something tells me that between endorsements and everything else, this woman was pretty well of and her estate can probably cover the bills. There are many more people out there that are far more in need of, and deserving of the help than this woman. It is a shame that because they are not celebrities no one will help them.
Shame on you for trying to use this accident to further your liberal spin on health care. She had seen people die in accidents skiing before. She had seen people hurt badly over the decades she competed in this sport. I am sure she was familiar with release forms for these sports. She was married and this is sad but she lived her life the way she wanted too. This was her JOB! You are disgusting to try and pull her in to the liberal health care spin. Again, Shame on you!
Typical greedy right-wing-bastard response: "I got mine, but I'll be damned if I let you use any of it to help someone else."
JS in SD, do you have any evidence/stats to back up your generalizations about the quality of health care in Canada and in Europe? I've heard these statements before, but have never seen anything concrete to base a conclusion on, other than "I have a friend who has a brother in Canada who says that he has a coworker who had to wait a really long time to see this one doctor for this thing..."
Ms. Burke was an adult over 21 yrs. of age and certainly could have afforded additional Insurance. Given the type of sport, she made a conscience decision and in retrospect not a sound decision, not to take that option. It was her responsibility and only her responsibility and like so many others she did not see Health Insurance as a necessity - she decided to let someone else worry about paying any medical bills. If the American Health System is so bad why do people come from Canada and Britian, who have Universal Coverage, every day to use the U.S. Health Care. We're being invaded from Mexico by individuals using our Health Care System because O'Bama refuses to secure our borders. One of the reasons Health Care is so expensive is because of the deadbeats that come to the U.S. Illegally and those that make a decision to spend their money on Cars, Drugs, etc. and expect other to pay their bills.
Up:
Clearly you stance is the typical left-wing "make my problems everyone else's problem" position. Take responsibility for yourself! Grow up and do the right thing.
She chose this way to make a living and enjoy life - she should have taken the responsibilities that go with it instead of burdening others with it. She was an adult, and she should have done the adult and responsible thing and made sure she had insurance to cover this non-sanctioned, private event.
It is possible to be compassionate and realistic at the same time. I find it amazing that someone could be in such a risky business in which injury is a guarantee and not have a financial plan in which any and all medical costs would be covered.
I'll bet that those of you outraged by others seemingly incompassionate attitude, would be outraged if I listed YOU as my grantor on all my visits to the ER when I do something stupid or dangerous, especially if I attached a note that said, "hey, I knew it was really, really dangerous, I just wanted to do it so bad, I couldn't help myself." You'd laugh me off the planet.
This wasn't a someone who had an unexpected, unforseen accident on their way to work. This was a woman who knew the risks of her business very well and did not plan for them. If the fans would not have stepped up and raised the money to cover the costs, the hospital would have had to eat it....and THAT is why healthcare is so high in the US.
Don'tcha just love it when someone opens a post by calling people "Whiners," then proceeds to lay down a whole list of whiney complaints about them?
It's the new conservative tactic.
It was a PRIVATE SECTOR event. Didn't you read the article? What happened to all your "private sector" blathering?
Universal Healthcare.
Have a nice day.
JS, have you ever been treated in Canada? Can you please provide links to whatever you are basing your opinion on, including examples of people needing to be airlifted to the US? I would like to see you say to a Canadian physician's face that they would not provide heroic efforts to save a life.
I would say what I think about how ridiculous your statements are, but I don't particularly want to be banned.
The difference between Canadian and US health care systems is that the Canadian ones are not run for profit. The standard of care is the best you can get - and, yes, I have been treated in both the US and Canada. And treated no differently - actually, that's a lie. The first question I was asked in Canada wasn't about how I intended to pay. And the doctors in Canada didn't rush me out the door to get to the next paying customer.
Had the accident occurred in Whistler, she would have been airlifted to Vancouver and no further, with no need to be taken any further. And the doctors would have pushed themselves to the limits of human possibility to save her life. And cost to save someone's life is NEVER a consideration.
You have hit on one true point in your tirade - there is a wait for non-critical surgery. The key part is "non-critical" - there is never a wait for critical surgery.
If you want to pick a country where doctors are most likely to provide heroic measures, you picked the wrong one. In Canada, doctors are in the profession because of true desire to help people; they don't expect to become millionaires.
Private-Healthcare-Made-Millionaires are spreading the nonsense you have clearly believed. In reality, in practice, it's just straight-up not true.
My brother is a doctor in Canada. He has said he would never even consider working anywhere else. And having been treated in both countries, I would take Canada hands-down. The care is 100% equal and provided at cost, not for massive profit.
Thanks Sandy,Terry,skate,etc. for pointing out the essential critical point of the whole story. (ie. dysfunctional profit driven US healthcare system)
I made the same point when this story was presented (then removed along with all comments) two days ago.
Glad the author was able to repost with the clarification. Unfortunately it looks like the bulk of the responders on the vine are pathetically uninformed and/or brainwashed.
sniff sniff - I smell some fake trolls - old posters now using female name. Either that or women are really turning into the same creatures as many heartless men.
maurice; I wondered why the original thread didn't load...some people and their issues, pathetic.
JS in SD, you are repeating the mindless drivel of the right wing dimwits that hold our country back. I have had experience with 4 different types of healthcare systems. A Thai hospital, USAF hospital, Canadian system, and whatever this garbage system is that we have here. I had a near fatal motorcycle accident when I was in Thailand during the Viet Nam war. I was taken to the local Thai hospital first by the Thai Border Patrol ( accident was near the Thai/Laotian border), then flown to a military hospital in Korat, Thailand where I was unconcious most of the time, then flown out to Clark AFB in the Phillipines where I made a full recovery in about 3 months. When I lived in Calgary, AB (Canada) ,my wife had surgery and received excellent care in 1971 (cost about $1.00). My father-in-law was taken to a hospital in Nebraska after a wreck where they missed a broken leg. He died of cancer after the hospital misdiagnosed it(although they did discover the broken leg that had not healed properly from 12 years earlier). A good friend had some heart valves replaced and then died from the infection that he got in the hospital. Still had a lot of bills to pay. So you tell me what a great system we have here. The US for profit at all cost system is like a boat anchor around the country's neck. People stay at sub standard jobs rather than starting their own business or moving to a better job, just to make sure they have insurance coverage. The healthcare system here is a huge drag on the economy because of the way it hinders innovation, and is a huge cost to small business. The statements about Canadian healthcare being inferior to US healthcare are ludicrous.
beanathome,
It isn't narcissism, although to a clueless clown like you, it probably appears to be. That's your problem though, not mine.
As for it happening or not happening, I already have medical issues. That's life. Oh, but I forgot. Unlike you and most of the other brainless drones out there, I don't expect any help for it, I don't ask for help for it and I don't NEED help for it. It's my problem, not anyone else's.
You see genius, that's what self-responsibility is all about. Too bad you and most of the human race don't seem to understand that these days.
I am not omniscient or omnipresent. Never claimed to be. I'm just better than all you whiners and enablers out there that think you are owed something because you were born.
Grow up and get a clue.
Wow, this story has been ruined by everyone. Good job. Apparently this skier was so greatly loved and admired that people are willing to donate to help pay her medical bills.
For those of you being douchebags (there are a lot of you) don't worry - the same won't happen for you.
Hey Ralph. Wanna talk about a nanny state? Lets talk about this. In 2004 my husband was killed by a car. I was 21 with two small children, and had just got a job at a law office, was trying to make something of myself. The insurance of the car didnt cover it, because the driver wasnt doing anything wrong. The life insurance policy didnt come through, because it was lapsed by 1 month. Yes, one month. Because it was pay the premium or put food on the table at the time. The life insurance that his company had on him only covered him if he was at work, which he wasnt. So, I end up with a dead husband, and a life flight bill for a flight he didnt catch, if you catch my drift. That bill alone was $10,000. Then you start adding on the bill for his burial, then the autopsy, then the headstone (thank God he had good friends, they pooled and paid for that), and all the other little things that go with it, and you easily end up with $15-20,000 smackers. That was without ANY medical treatment. He had a fireman doing CPR and trying to keep him breathing. That was the extent of the medical treatment he recieved. Now, had any of the fallbacks that I had in place worked, I probably would have been alright. The only fall back I had was a $500.00 check from his company for the 401K he had just started saving for. I am happy that his fans helped, too. I would have a dead husband without a headstone if not for them, and some other people helping with the other stuff.
I dont think you should complain about people doing nice things to help out a family that probably cant afford it. Yeah, she was famous, yeah she had a sponsor, but did she actually have a ton of cash? You dont know that.
I believe people are more than willing to help pay her expenses as a way of showing appreciation for her love for freedom that her sport allowed her to express. All skiers like her are "free spirits" and take great risk for the enjoyment of others.
BTW, there isn't anything wrong with people doing nice things for others. This young lady deserved what her fans did for her. She was a fine young person.
Yes, the American for-profit health 'care' system is a travesty. However, so was this silly bint's lack of common sense and preparation.
We are an overburdened society as it is. There is no room left for 'free spirits'.
This article is not totally true. Burke also had $5 million in medical coverage through the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, a largely government-funded body that fields Olympic competitors in the sport. But it only covers competitors if they are involved in sanctioned events and training where association coaches are present. “This was a private sponsored event, so none of our certified trained coaches were there."
This is how Canada handles medical coverage. They find a loophole and then bury you in it.
Canada's so called Healthcare program is exactly what Obama is trying to do here. it is a disaster. The waiting list is a mile long, it is mostly free at the time of use. Why do you think the Canadian Prime minister came to the US (Florida) for heart surgery. If his programs are so great why did he not stay there and have his surgery done. They spend much less for helathcare, and for that reason, you get what you pay for. We have the best in the world, and we pay for it as well.
Canada's healthcare program is not even close to what Obama did. It's about as far from it as possible. An exchange market between private ensurers is the same as an entirely government run, tax payer funded system? Everything you wrote is baseless.
"This is how Canada handles medical coverage. They find a loophole and then bury you in it." What?! She wasn't IN Canada, and their healthcare system still paid the fees of what it typically would pay for the services she had. unfortunately, saying "hello" to a doctor in America costs $500. I know, I had cancer treatment for 3 months that ran over $150,000. Fortunately I had insurance that left me with $10K in bills. I didn't even have anything complicated done. A simple surgery and 3 months of chemo. MRI, CT, and PET scans were close to $5000 a piece though, what a joke. After the fact, turned out most of them weren't even necessary!
Michael... the problem with your concept of Obamacare is that the Government is also part of that "exchange market" you speak of.
Would YOU kindly show me the entity that can compete with an organization that has the ability to literally print it's own money?
Yes, the initial premise of Obamacare is theoretically a controlled market system. Ultimately private industry will be driven out ensuring Obamacare becomes the only option available. I'd say that is exactly like the Canadian system wouldn't you?
and you are a Canadian & work in healthcare in the U.S. ?
Obamacare does not go far enough! Yes I have health insurance. The greater good dictates a state run insurance system!
The exchanges only makes you feel like it it private. In the end the government will make all the decisions of what kind of care you can get and how much your insurance will cost. When this happens, that will mean the people in the medical field will quit and go drive trucks for a living or retire. It means that only a few large companies might survive the next three years.
In Massachusetts the first health insurance companies to get in trouble was Blue Cross - Blue Shield and the other not-for-profits. They had run into deficits in 4 years by following what the government mandated in coverage and allowed for premiums. The last I heard they finally got concessions and were looking to convert to for profit.
My wife's boss (CPA) had a small health insurer as a client. Always paid promptly until after the HCL became law. The client is now way behind in paying for services rendered. He recently went to lunch the client who was buying - his client's credit card was declined. The guys wife was there and started crying. BTW the health insurance wing of his business in process of being sold to a larger company.
So according to Canada, your only Canadian when you are in Canada then right?
Michael - You're kidding, right? Best in the world? Have you ever sought health care elsewhere? I have lived in other countries for study and have had to receive health care on occasion. Denmark, for example, ha universal health care. I was injured playing touch football, was taken to the hospital (which was incredibly clean and state-of-the-art), did not have to wait while someone "processed" me, was cared for with the utmost respect and diligence, received EXCEPTIONAL health care, and was realeased. The last several times I had to go to the ER here in the U.S. , I spent hours waiting to be seen, spent a minimum of a half hour being "processes" (paperwork, insurance check, etc.) before anyone actually proceeded to administer care, and had to wait while medical personnel "looked" for basic items like blankets, syringes, etc. In Italy, a friend broke her arm. She had a similar experience to mine in Denmark. Another friend sprained an ankle in Greece - again very good, very up-to-date treatment. No one was turned away for lack of insurance. I had food poisoning a few years ago while traveling in the Midwest. I was turned away from a hospital that did not carry my insurance. We had to drive another 30 miles while I was actively throwing up. Anyone who says we have the best health care in the world had either never traveled outside the U.S. and needed health care, or has been brainwashed like many of the other conservative lemmings in this country. I know what I have experienced. People do not die in Denmark because they don't have health insurance...or just have the wrong kind. THEY DO HERE. Wake up please.
Heheheh.........err............heheheh.
Please excuse my earlier post, Michael. I meant to address it to BLACK.KNIGHT. My mistake.
You have no clue how obamacare will work so here ya go.
1. Mandated benefits, age & status ratios , MLR issues-- Mandates and put into place "rich" benefits for all so prices goes up, Set age and status ratios so prices goes up on younger people , set limits on profits (mlr) so prices goes up due to less cost sharing. Commission's cut (50%) to agents to offset some MLR requirements (this happened this yr)
2. Mandate everyone to have insurance and put up internet insurance exchanges. This circumvents the health agents and hundreds of thousands loose thier commissions and customers. Former clients buy off the internet and buy the highest deductible they can afford but don't read fine print and buy piss poor insurance with no one guiding them.
3. People/businesses without insurance pay a fine ($2,000) Businesses will pay fine vs paying for employee insurance driving more people to Exchanges and will justify the drop in coverage since the gov't will sub part of your cost upto 400% of poverty rate. Possibly requiring you to opt of the GOV'T health plan.
4. Tax insurance plans with low deductibles and high cost that the "rich" can afford. Pushing upper middle class to sub par health plans to avoid the taxes and also push more people to GOV'T option.
As prices skyrocket and more and more people are taken care of by the gov't handouts and sometime around 2016 to 2018 is my guess the gov't will require you to switch to the gov't sponsored plan or loose your benefit status. Driving even more and more people and the major meds will start to go under and close thier doors until Obamacare is all thats left in 2018.
In a nutshell- drive up costs , mandate everything , push people away from insurance agents and then away from insurance plans , and give money to poor and tax the rich to push as many people to buy gov't run healthcare.
I can't tell the future but I bet Iam not far off. And I own an insurance agency that mainly sells group and personal health insurance.
Damn that Autocorrect... changing "America" to "Canada" like that!
XDm9mm - No, the problem is that you don't know what you're talking about. The public option was struck down, therefore, there is NO government entity under the new law.
Clearly, your take on the new law is that "Obamacare" is some type of government-based insurance policy. Go do some reading before you express an opinion, because clearly, you're wrong.
Randy: You are correct. Sadly the man at Tri-care explained this to us today. What has cost 1,295 per year will double at best. They are doing paperwork to prepare for it now in case it becomes a reality. The workers who worked all their life to provide for health care will now have to drop as the price is too much so others can get it for free. Maddening.
openminded-2340460
Great to have that free great medical service. Apparently there is a shortage of ambulance chaser there to file enough malpractice suits. Maybe if they had to go though the same BS and precautions that our facilities here in the US did, maybe things wouldn't be so wonderful.
umm apparently no one ever read the health care law that was passed under obama...
There is no government option... hate to break it to you. what makes it cost so much money was paying off the insurance companies and pharm companies to get them to even agree to the law and not lobby the congress against it.
XDm9mm - No, the problem is that you don't understand the law. The public option was stricken from the new law, hence, there is NO government entity to take the place of existing insurance companies.
Clearly, you seem to think that "Obamacare" is some sore of government-based insurance company. Clearly, you're wrong. Try reading a little more before you post an opinion.
openminded... yes I will agree that EMERGENCY care is generally better in many other countries... not all by any stretch, but at least many in Europe.
Of course, when it comes to "elective" procedures, the story is quite different. And when I say "elective" I don't mean nose jobs.
I'm speaking about heart surgeries, joint replacement, and other surgeries that although necessary for a quality of life aren't life threatening.
I had a hip replaced. I knew it was coming but did put it off as long as I could. When I could barely walk any longer, I made the appointment. I COULD have had the surgery within three weeks if I wanted to rush the process. I took about two months. Routine tests, MRSA testing, blood donation (get my own blood during surgery). While in post-op rehab, I met a man from Canada. He came down to the USA for his surgery after waiting over two years on the waiting list in Canada and STILL had no prospect of when the surgery would occur. There was another woman in rehab that had a similar situation. But she was in a wheel chair for over three years waiting for knee replacement surgery. (She had A LOT OF GUTS!! Had BOTH done at the same time!!) And she was also from Canada.
Our system isn't the best, but then neither are other places. All have thier own sets of positives and negatives. Personally, I'll take our system with all it's flaws over other places any day.
"We have the best in the world" We pay the MOST, by far, and are not even in the top 10 for longevity... if you call that the "Best"... you might want to recalculate. The health industry and certain politics sure have pulled the wool over so many eyes... don't "listen and be swayed", research facts for yourself.
Truly unfortunate! It's a wonderful thing that so many people or willing to help the husband with the medical bills.
This is a national shame that medical care is so expensive in the US. Why the hell is that? We spend per capita at least twice as much an any other industrialized country and there are still 50 million of our population that is not covered. Canada has a standard of living better than ours, why the hell is their health care so much less expensive? These health care costs in this country need to be rolled back.
DB Akron wrote, "He recently went to lunch the client who was buying - his client's credit card was declined. The guys wife was there and started crying. BTW the health insurance wing of his business in process of being sold to a larger company." So, the client is a loser. He probably has 20 or 30 credit cards and has each one maxed out. If his wife was crying, maybe she was crying about those diamond earrings she just bought of which her husband was about to find out. Your story makes no sense and proves nothing as far as Obama care.
To the rest of you I'd like to suggest that you stop getting your "information" about Obama care from Rush and those liars at FAUX NEWS. Time to do your own thinking and learn the truth. Please! Do so before you vote in the general election.
Also, to those of you who actually believe that your rising health insurance premiums is a direct result of Obama care, think again. And again. Facts are that the cost of your premiums have been rising at a steady pace since 2000 and even before. They go up every year because every year the cost of health care goes up. It has nothing to do with Obama care.
In 2009. before Obama care, my 19 year old daughter was rushed to the emergency room and stayed in intensive care exactly 24 hours. I was by her side the entire time. I saw so many nurses going in and out of her room I lost count. But in all those hours I saw just one doctor. He came in to give her the mandatory "visit" and to us she was being admitted. He was in the room for all of 4 minutes. When the bills began coming in there were bills from 8 different doctors ranging from $550.00 on up to $3,000.00. I called each doctor's office and was told the charges were for CONSULTATION WITH OTHER DOCTORS! We then recieved the bill from the hospital. Just for the hospital room they charged $12,000.00. That was for 24 hours!Then there were the charges for the CT scans, and the person who interpreted the cat scan. Billed seperately but together a little more than $3,000.00. I'm told that was cheap! There was no surgery performed at that time. Again, that was before Obama care. So you are way foolish to believe those BS stories you've been told about the high cost of medical care since Obama care. Way foolish!
openminded,
Please consider the entire country of Denmark has less people than one U.S. City. Pure population numbers are going to strain any health care system.
I really feel sorry for those of you who believe HCR will benefit anyone but those who have no form of coverage, including those not lawfully in this country.
I will only ask you this one question. If HCR is so great, Why are so many exceptions being granted to Unions and others that supported Obama?
We will not even go to the why 30 couple million others will not be covered under HCR.
"We have the best in the world" We pay the MOST, by far, and are not even in the top 10 for longevity... if you call that the "Best"... you might want to recalculate. The health industry and certain politics sure have pulled the wool over so many eyes... don't "listen and be swayed", research facts for yourself.
Our lack of longevity is due to our poor diets, number of obese, and some genetic factors. Your chances of surviving many cancers and other serious conditions are much better in the US than the rest of the world. Our healthcare costs are expensive because we have for-profit care. This makes it expensive, but it also makes it worthwhile for investors to fund entities that make important advances every day.
As it is right now, with or without insurance, we are all one catastrophic illness away from bankruptcy. We had double coverage before my husband became ill with a very rare disease and a subsequent bone marrow transplant. Then he had Medicare after being ill for 2 years. Seven years later after trying to tread water over the resulting financial burden, selling everything we had to stay afloat, yes even our home, we filed bankruptcy. Please, can someone tell me if the new plan will prevent this for others in the future?
Single payer is the only answer. I think of the fact that half of the bankruptcies filed every year are due to the burden of unpaid medical bills and the middle man in the entire scheme of things is the insurance industry. Pay the doctors and nurses fairly with incentives and they won't care who writes the check. Are we really that incompetent that we need another layer?
I use the Veterans Administration as my primary care provider. About a year ago they had an opening in our outpatient clinic and it took no time to fill the position. One of Kaiser's wonder docs took the job and he's glad to be there. He explained it to me like this: I come to work at a certain hour and I go home at a certain hour. There's no pressure to herd patients like cattle, the money is about the same and I never have to work weekends.What's not to like?
In a civilized society, every citizen deserves medical care and there should be reciprocity between nations to cover visitors.
sandtrich
I am a republican, and I don't normally agree with what you say. I do agree with you this time. Single payer is the only answer.
Terry--let's just chalk it up to common sense. I read what you have to say and I note that you back up your political ideology with critical thinking--not gotcha stuff. Thanks
wal-mart super surgery center...coming to a location near you...tip the greeter you big spender...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPZrfk7c1Iw&feature=related
garcher - Under the old system, the insurance company could drop you if you reached a certain lifetime spending limit. After you were dropped, all other insurers could then deny covering you because of preexisting condition. Most of the poeple that went bankrupt under the old system HAD HEALTH INSURANCE but were dropped by their provider when they got sick. There will also be exchanges - one stop shopping locations where you can see all the providers, what they cover and compare prices right there and choose the best one. And if you're not happy with one after awhile, you will be able to switch to another with better coverage/better price even if you have preexisting conditions. If you make $44,000 or less as an individual or $84,000 or less as a couple, you will get subsidies to help you pay you premiums. HOW CAN YOU SAY THE NEW LAW DOESN'T BENEFIT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY INSURED?
Bone Marrow Transplant Survivor - What happened to you will not happen to people in the future once the new law kicks in because your insurance provider will no longer be able to drop you when you get sick. They will have to continue to cover you throughout your illness.
After reading all these comments, I only wish the US had mandatory spelling and grammar classes.
garcher - The reason exceptions are being granted is that for some of the larger organizations, it will take awhile for them to absorb this new system than other organizations because of the cost/logistics of doing so. However, these extensions are temporary, and eventually all organizations will have to comply with the law.
Stating that these extensions are permanent is not only right wing propaganda, but shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of how the legal system works.
She knew that she was playing a Game, She was playing a Game that came with Risks. She was playing a GAME that came with risks to her Life. She chose to play that game. Just as a Jay-Walker plays a game with traffic. Just as a Soldier plays a game with the enemy. She chose to put herself in this position. She DIED.. Why should the tax payers pay her medical bills. Had she been playing in a sanctioned event she would have had insurance. She chose to play on her own. She disobeyed the rules. Now she is gone... God rest her soul..... Her family owes the medical expences. That is the Law...
I know a younr person that worked in China teaching English. She had a Tumor the size of a base ball
She had it removed in China and the bill came to 2000 dollars. After paying the bill They realized that they over charge by 300.00 and refunded the amount.
Every thing is good and the Hospital was top notch not some chicken head drying back room
The health insurance in this country is a joke Time to put them all out of business with Obama Care
It isn't the Government that wants to stick it too you - it is your employer. My old employer has been trying to get out from under the health care/Insurance burden for 13 years - now they see the opportunity so they are seizing the day.
I was floored the first time a landed a job that paid half or more of my health Insurance - I actually started laughing and made the comment; how did the employees get away with this scam? Well since it was a Union work force and non Union management and professional staff - whatever the Union negotiated for - the non Union people also got (without having to pay Union dues).
My old work health care Insurance (Group Health - or as we called them - Group Death) never covered any of my health problems and would lie to my face when I asked them if my ailment was this or that. After I left their employment and qualified for Arizona's State health care (long story - my employer screwed me on COBRA), they took care of my health problems for free - 10 operations total.
Until you have actually traveled the health care Insurance road...hush your mouth.
kcjhawk; you could always start your own thread...kcjhawk's Skwel of Gud Splin & Gramur.
My Left v Right test; if all a poster does is take the easy way out and just attacks posters - most likely they represent the Right. If they try to offer solutions and/or sympathy - most likely they are from the Left. Then you have the Religious who are from the Right but offer token condolence. The exception to my test is Hispanics; they are very Conservative and Catholic - but because of how the Right treats them, they vote Left.
Words like; wish and hope - look them up in the dictionary - they mean you expect a result without doing anything to make what you wish or hope for, to actually happen.
Damn; I got hi-jacked again...posters who can't stay on topic...ugh.
I have several family members who are Canadian. My neighbor's mother remarried a man from Canada, and they all come down here when they need a procedure done like joint replacement, any kind of cardiac procedure (stent, etc.), various diagnostic tests, the list goes on. They ALL say that other than for the basic stuff, their health care sucks. Ask Natasha Richardson's family how good Canadian emergency services are.
Here's another thing. In Canada, they hand over about half their paycheck to help pay for their socialized medicine. Who would pay for it in the U.S.? The 47% that don't pay income taxes???? Yeah right. The 45 million currently uninsured. Ummm, no they will claim "poverty". So the 53% of us who already pay the bills to keep the nation running would get screwed again.
Good gawd people. How many of you read the story? Post after post asking why her parents are responsible for this "girl." She was not a girl, she was a 29 yr old adult who was married. Her husband has not yet made any claims to the Canadian Health Ministry for the $200,000 bill. So he needs to take responsibility and do that. Let's say the Canadian government is pretty cheap, and only pays $100,000, leaving a $100,000 bill. The husband is responsible for paying this. He can't claim poverty, as she was well paid for what she did. Why in the world these two adults did not verify their insurance coverage when she was engaged in such an extremely dangerous occupation is beyond belief. Or maybe they just intentionally blew it off. Bad choice. So now the husband has set up this donation site, and has lots of money, hundreds of thousands more than he needs to pay the balance of the hospital bill. Me thinks you donators got snookered. ;P
Socialism is wonderful, except where it doesn't apply due to political policies. We need the same policies everywhere.
Randy-840072,
I won't make some silly predictions about how Obamacare *might* work, I'll tell you how it works in reality:
My niece had ovarian cancer and thanks to the Affordable Care Act (extension for children under the age of 26) she was covered under my brother's policy. Without it she would have had to pay 100% out of pocket.
I'm so sick and tired of people like you spreading lies by attempting to place undue fear into those who are ignorant. It's people like you who are a true reflection of the problem in this country.
Yes, single payer is the answer.
jac-931625,
Thanks for your GOP rhetoric garbage. Unfortunately it doesn't work on the educated, only the ignorant.
Btw, I don't know a single American who doesn't think their healthcare sucks so your anecdote is meaningless. I can tell you that my #1 headache in my everyday life is dealing with our healthcare system. Now does that mean I'm right because I used better adjectives than you? What a joke.
Fact: WHO ranks our healthcare system #37 in the world.
Considering the world largely revolves around the US that's absolutely pathetic.
Fact: A household earning the average wage in Canada pays 21%.
I know, the GOP isn't familiar with having discussions based on facts, just fear and lies.
jac-931625 wrote:
"Here's another thing. In Canada, they hand over about half their paycheck to help pay for their socialized medicine."
Canada doesn't have socialized medicine, they have universal healthcare. Those 2 things are not the same and you should understand the difference if you want to discuss the subject intelligently.
Secondly, on a per capita basis, Canadians pay in taxes towards healthcare about the same as Americans pay in taxes towards healthcare. The difference is that Canadians actually get healthcare for their money whereas we get to pay for medicare, medicaid, the VA, etc.. and then get told we still have to pay for our own personal health insurance.
A big problem with this topic is that the issue of health insurance always gets conflated with the broader issue of health services. It's true that in some areas America has some of the most advanced medical care there is. However, for the many Americans that can't afford those services, that point is not very helpful.
The detractors of universal healthcare like to point out that people from other countries sometimes travel here to get medical attention, but fail to mention that Americans rank among the biggest consumers of medical tourism (ie people here travel abroad to get medical attention). In any case, how many times have you ever heard of people traveling to the US for our superior health INSURANCE? I've never heard of such a person.
And oh yea, how is it that every person I've ever heard arguing against universal healthcare has friends or family from Canada saying their system has is only good for the basics? Every poll I've ever seen shows that Canadians are more satisfied with their healthcare than we are. Somehow, nobody seems to ever be related to an average Canadian.
I've had direct, personal experience with healthcare here, in Canada, and in Europe and there's no way I'd choose ours over those other systems. Not even close. Ask the woman in California that had to call 911 from an emergency room because nobody was attending to her for hours how she feels. Oh yeah, you can't cuz she's dead.
Hmmm... Well, it looks like there's a whole lot of "finger pointing" regarding “should have, could have,” etc.
The basic bottom line is this: This young athlete had severe injuries that caused her death. The hospital wants its money.
Most hospitals have a way of reducing some of the expenses. It would be interesting to see an itemized bill for services rendered and support provided.
The beverage company should step up to the plate and offer more assistance, and make it public. The fans are doing the right thing by trying to help.
The family should not get stuck with the bill, for this unfortunate matter. Frankly, I am surprised that the Mormon Church has not stepped forward to offer some help in this matter.
This is an opportunity to do what is right. So, quit it with the finger pointing, and get the deal done. There should be a zero balance on the bill, immediately if not sooner.
This was Professional Athlete. Supposedly intelligent. She KNEW that her health care plan would Not cover her for this event. She Knew and did nothing about it. Why should anyone else be paying for it but herself?
That's the problem with this country. People blame others for their bad choices, and no one wants to take responsiblity.
It was HER choice to not have the proper insurance rider for this event. It's no ones fault but her own, and no one elses responsibility.
"Why should anyone else be paying for it but herself?"
Cuz she's dead?
Let me give you the reality of it.
Before ObamaCare I could sell a child only policy for about $70-120/mo which came in handy to employees whose employer paid the employee rate. Many and most companies don't fund the spouse or child. Adding a child could cost 200-300 to add to a policy but buying an individual policy for the child is about $100 saving $100-200/month in cost.
Under ObamaCare children are guarenteed issue meaning you could be on the way to the hospital and call me on the phone and issue a policy and thus cover the child's medical costs even with no premiums being paid. This is called adverse selection and insurance companies could not afford this liability.
Now Child have to be added to a parents policy which costs more, also I used to be able to issue a policy within 24-48 hours now you have to wait 2 weeks.
So no child only policies , increased waiting periods to be effective , and higher costs to working class parents.
This is just the start and all above is true and ineffect don't believe me call an agent and ask for a child policy and see what they say.
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ACTION:
RESULT:
Why are people paying these bills? Isn't only her estate actually responsible for the bills and not her parents since she wasn't a minor? So why are her parents freaking out about this??
It depends. If they were there when the accident happened or came down (as I would have done in that situation) they might have signed off on permitting any and all measures (again as I would have done) and assumed liability.
When you sign on the dotted line, it's your bill in the end.
I was wondering the same thing Heather. She is an adult. Her parents are not responsible for her bills. Just like a married couple - if the credit card is only in one spouses name the other spouse doesn't have to pay that bill.
I agree Heather. I have said all along that the appeal was bogus. The debt should die with her. She was an independent adult and her parents are not responsible for her medical debts anymore than they would be responsible for her credit card or other debts.
It is their bill if they authorized the treatment and signed off on it as she was unable to do so herself due to her injuries.
Well...I've heard of hospitals suing and harassing parents, and relatives of those who die or have been very ill and cannot pay their bills. Especially if it's a large sum of money. Hospitals aren't going to soothe a soul for their loss, they're out for the money since they are stiffed so much anymore.
I am disgusted by the lack of empathy for this family!!! The negative comments here from some are certainly from people who have never had a family member really ill and/or faced the daunting burden of dealing with huge medical bills. Making such stupid comments about the Canadian Medical System shows how inept some of the thinking here is. I currently work here in the US and have also worked in Canada.Yes there are problems with both medical systems , I am quite aware of that... and intelligent/open minded enough to admit it....the big difference regarding Canada is that you won't lose everything you own should you have a catastrophic event/illness.....you can't be100% sure about that here... in Canada and you can actually focus on getting better rather than worrying about medical bills.The question that needs attention is why does it cost soooo much more here as opposed to Canada..I'll tell you.....it's a profitable business...insurance companies....drug companies....FOR PROFIT!!
She was 29 but she was married..it isn't her parents that have to foot the bill it is her husband. Do people not read the whole article?
Apparently she didn't have any life insurance either.
If you are in the U.S. military and you have a car accident at any time on or off duty and you are not wearing a seat belt your life insurance won't pay out. So I hear....This is very sad but she had a husband, if the accident had happened in Canada the outcome would have been the same because they couldn't get oxgen to her brain till the repair was made. Eleven minutes is about the longest before damage happens. If I go skiing I have to sign all kinds of release of harm forms so I can't believe she didn't have to take responsibility for her own actions. She had been skiing for decades and just like someone who rides a motorcycle she knew people die from this sport, Sonny Bono was killed skiing into a tree, but if you love it you are willing to take the chance. She took the chance. She lived her life the way she wanted too full out no holds barred. The people who are pushing national health care should be ashamed to try and use this young woman and this accident....you blood sucking scum are disgusting! Go beat your liberal drum somewhere else and quit using her for your spin.
She was married, another reason why her parents are not responsible.
IF her husband signed papers saying he is responsible for the bill he can be held to it. Otherwise, unless her husband puts up some insurance info or volunteers to pay the bill, the hospital is SOL.
The hospital could send a bill to everybody and their brother but none are responsible for that bill.
Her parents could not sign anything on her behalf at the hospital, they could not sign consent for treatment, responsibility for the bill, etc; nor could they make the choice to pull the plug nor any other major OR simple health decision if it came to that. ONLY the next of kin can and in this case, it is her husband.
The way I see it people were making donations to yet another person with a job that John Q Public has made into someone special. Waste of money on the part of all those who sent money to them.
My next question is who will end up with that money?
Heather, I was confused too. She's dead, not like they can sue her or make her go bankrupt. They can't go after her parents for the bills. I think that any estate money may have to go to debts, but I am not sure about that. Even so, when that is gone, it's gone. The living don't have to pay the bills of the dead even if collectors try! Maybe things in Canada are different, who knows? If that is the case, the hubby and parents should get out of Canada and try to let the Canadian collectors come and get the money. So sad that the family has to fret over something as trivial as money after losing their loved one. I hope they get some good legal advice as to their financial responsibilities (or lack of them) in this international case.
Registered Nurse, I feel for the parents and her husband at this time. But this has nothing to do with the pros and cons of National Health insurance.
What it comes down to is that she KNEW her insurance wouldn't cover her for this event, and she did nothing about it. It's up to her husband and her estate to cover the medical bills.
Okay here it is.. Fans have to pay for the medical because the folks providing the services expect a better living than the rest of the herd and the cost of Luxury items are so high. Luxury items are way too expensive because they have been loaded with so much worthless frill and fluf to excite the buyers and prey on their ignorance that It's a wonder a yacht will float under the weight of the e lectronic gismos and fancy simulated teak wood finish. Everyone in the Medical profession sees themselves behind the wheel of a BMW,(ALL BE IT THAT THEY LEAK OIL LIKE A SIEVE).. and don't forget that If you have enough wealth you can hire someone else to die in your place..
guess you are pretty much bullet proof and will never need any kind of medical treatment...because you wouldn't want to contribute to the "problem"...someone must have let the grade schooler stay up late...haha
I work in the medical profession. My car is 1993 Jeep Wrangler. I make less than 40k a year. Some of us actually enjoy helping people. Imagine that, people who's enjoyment and happiness isn't tied to a paycheck!
I'm with Heather, why is her family being held responsible? Her estate should cover what bills it can, and the rest is suck it up. Can't get money from a dead person.
Here odds were better here though. Life flight, more hospitals for her type of injury. Being she was in sports, someone was going to make up the difference. If she was poor or not of notoriety, odds are the bill would not have ever been paid.
It would have been paid indirectly by the other hospital users.
All of those "unpaid" bills get factored into the charges everyone pays.
it was good to see another article on this tragic accident. however, one question was asked but not the biggest one.
why are her parents responsible for their adult daughters medical bills? they could never be held legally responsible for her medical or any other bills incurred anywhere.
so, the question still remains, where is that money going? and why this big story on her parents facing bankruptcy?
to many shadows here and i look for the bogey man, and the ever present opportunist.
Curry... see my response #3.1 above
she was an adult. no one had to sign off on her treatment. the hospital would have treated her accordingly.
they can not force her parents to sign financial obligation paperwork. the hospital can not turn her away.
as i said, there is more going on here than meets the eye.
Curry, they CAN ask the parents to sign off on it before they do anything if the patient is not able to communicate their wishes. I know, I went through it. They will only do enough to get you stabilized in the ER. After that they can ship you out the door if they want to if you can't pay. It's called dumping and for profit hospitals do it all the time in the US.
She was married. Her husband is legally her "next of kin" and he would have been saddled with the bills. I don't know anyone who can afford to pay half a million in medical bills.
Our healthcare system favors only the rich who can afford and get the best care. We have great care here in the US (IF you can afford it).
How many of us who believe we have operated within the rules of our insurance only to find out they aren't going to pay for something. In an emergency, it's not like going to a restaurant where you can say, no I only had a salad, I didn't order the lobster.
The lady who manages my dentists office tells me that all the time they deal with insurance companies who try not to pay. The other thing your health insurance does is lapse the coverage of a network doctor when he/she moves clinics and then claims they don't have to pay because your doctor was "out of network" EVEN though the doctor accepted the insurance at their previous office and are going to accept it at the new practice. They suddenly claimed they needed to "re-vet" my doctor even though he has accepted their insurance for YEARS and has over 40 years in private practice and teaches at a medical school, and that process took them over 3 months. Give me a break.
XDM9: Doubtful her parents had power of attorney. They would have contacted the husband first and received his approval to perform treatment. Just because you ok the procedure does not make you libel. You have to fill out a separate contract with a hospital to assume liability for charges. The hospital would not do so, bypassing her husband, they could get sued.
God Bless America where it is all about the Benjamins. We are talking about health care for human beings.....why is it we can spend all the money in the world on wars, but when it comes to taking care of our fellow man, we bicker about the bill.
I hope America is better than that and I feel most Americans are above this bull@!$%#. Stop pointing fingers and fix the damn system -- because it is broken --- even with private insurance.
Amen to that Brother!
Hear Hear Robert! Somehow we have not evolved to the point where we see that the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" actually includes LIVING. It is awfully hard to do that if we have to choose between medical care and food for our children.
Because a particular group of people could care less about their "fellow man". It amazes me how people with that type of mentality sleep at night. If you aren't healthy & are uninsurable or cannot afford healthcare, then you should just die. Most of these idiots are the same people that call themselves good Christians. Good hypocrites are more like it!
The good Christians are the ones who started the majority of the hospitals and universities yet all the liberals want God out of everything.
When the ACLU decided that people had to be protected from religion they also took away the "help your fellow man" ideology. You have gotten what you asked for by trying to destroy religion in everyday life.
Medical care is not part of our constitution. Too many people want a pill to cure what they have done to themselves and the general population is not responsible for their bad decisions.
This woman was competing in a sport not going to work at the grocery store. She knew the risks and took them for which she lost her life. I really don't feel I need to pay higher taxes to pay for her decisions by providing gov't healthcare. Most of you posters actually believe the govt can effectively run a decent healthcare program, but what you fail to realize is the govt can't run anything without making it into a huge boondoggle.
You will find yourselves in rationed healthcare within 5 years as there won't be the money available to keep a dying person alive for 6 extra months to the cost of 500k. Transplants will go to the young who will be able to work to put money into the pot for the next one not the 60 year old who won't be able to work for 20 more years.
Go to Canada and see how it works. If you live in a big city such as Toronto you will get appts in a fairly quick manner but if you live anywhere else you won't. Hospitals shut down due to Dr shortages, MRI's & X-ray's aren't done except in emergency cases when they don't have enough supplies. You receive basic healthcare but they still purchase insurance to cover what the govt doesn't. People in the US will scream bloody murder and I will just sit back & laugh while cashing out everything & sitting back to let someone else pay the extra taxes to cover me.
And no I didn't get this from FOX news or Rush. This comes from my personal observation. I own property in Ontario. I pay taxes in Ontario and I have many friends who live in Ontario and so I have seen this stuff first hand both in hospitals and Dr's offices.
Hmmmmmm...................................................
"Go to Canada and see how it works. If you live in a big city such as Toronto you will get appts in a fairly quick manner but if you live anywhere else you won't. Hospitals shut down due to Dr shortages, MRI's & X-ray's aren't done except in emergency cases when they don't have enough supplies. You receive basic healthcare but they still purchase insurance to cover what the govt doesn't. People in the US will scream bloody murder and I will just sit back & laugh while cashing out everything & sitting back to let someone else pay the extra taxes to cover me."
"And no I didn't get this from FOX news or Rush. This comes from my personal observation. I own property in Ontario. I pay taxes in Ontario and I have many friends who live in Ontario and so I have seen this stuff first hand both in hospitals and Dr's offices."
Wow! Makes you an expert, huh? At what?
"People in the U.S. will scream bloody murder and I will just sit back and laugh"............. as i look out the window from the 13th floor of my Ontario hospital room........heheheh Cuckoo Cuckoo Cuckoo oh, it's three o'clock, time for my special pills.......... I really like the yellow ones with the black polka dots..........yippee!
Just what in the heck is a boondoggle anyways? Is that like a whatchamacallit? Or just another way of saying clusterf--k up there in the great white north? Take off aye.
Oh.....and your personal observation is scaring the hell out of children and adults alike.
Did you eat paint chips as a kid? Just wondering.
Can't wait until ralphy boy gets sick and his insurance company refuses him converage because he cried like hell to get Obamacare repealed.
Heheheheh........
Families are always held responsible for paying bills of an estate if there is not enough money in the estate to cover them......unless the deceased had "death insurance" for each of those billable accounts. People really need to study their health policies. Very few cover you when you are traveling unless you have put in a travel rider. Some policies won't even cover you from one state to another IF the attending physician or hospital is not on their "approved" list. Medicare will NOT cover you outside of the US and its territories (where you sometimes don't even get full coverage that you have stateside). People were critical of what I had posted on the original story (collapsed my post even) without really reading what I was saying.....it wasn't just a problem with HER not being covered by her Canadian insurance. The story was using her situation to point out the problem that AMERICAN families face everyday with our healthcare coverage. More and more American families are having to declare bankruptcy, are losing their homes, etc. because of catastrophic medical conditions.
ATP....youre wrong.
it would be different if she were a minor or married. They can try to collect from her parents all they want, but they are under no obligation to pay for their adult childs debt.
Wrong. Only her husband. if her entire estate is handled by him as her executor he has a responsibility to pay the bill out of her estate.
but you dont have to accept responsibility if you dont accept the estate. Just because something is willed to you, doesnt mean you have to accept it.
Eddie: True.
And once again you all missed my point: The story was using her situation to point out the problem that AMERICAN families face everyday with our healthcare coverage. More and more American families are having to declare bankruptcy, are losing their homes, etc. because of catastrophic medical conditions.
.
This was a professional athlete dangerously pushing the limits of human skill and endurance, she should have had her own insurance.
And I dont like the way this was used to run down the US Medical system.
If Canadians want to subsidize risky behavior by athletes with tax money, good for them
So, when you see someone overweight, or drinking, or smoking, etc... do you run out and castigate them? It would be a shame not to and then "subsidize their risky behavior" with your insurance premiums. Sarah did some risky stuff, in all likelihood she probably had much lower risk factors for many commonly expensive medical conditions. Extreme athletes are not what is costing Americans an arm and a leg in health costs! Most of them die so fast it doesn't cost a cent. Sometimes not even for a burial.
Run down our health care system....???? The U.S. health care system has been at the bottom of the world's barrel for years!!! It is the most overpriced, under performing, with the highest patient mortality rate in the world covering the least percentage of its population than ANY other country in the world. What banana boat did you did you just get off of? You are paying nearly 3x the amount for health care than any country in the G7, yet the people of these countries on average are healthier than we are. Please, leave your delusions of grandeur at the door.
I think he got off the banana boat from Canada. They grow the best bananas in the world there! What door do we leave delusions of grandeur at? The double swing door?
PITY we cant face up to this Cost Issue?
We pay for the Schools to educate the Dr.s, We pay for the Hospitals to Train the Dr.s and We pay the Dr.s so they can become MBA s!
Therefore, we Just continue to Pay through the Nose when we use the Dr.s!
AND, you're telling me something doesn't stink in the USA, Horacio?
So go to a plumber.............. I'm sure the rates are better.
Heheh....I looked all over for Horacio's post, but dammed if I could find it anywhere. (Rim shot, cymbal tap)
And the stank is George's rotten Bush.......heheheh even years later.
Typical Insurance company garbage, if you get hurt on thursday your only covered on wednesday, if you hurt your leg they only pay fors hurt arms if your a canadian or american we'll only cover you if your accident happens in Batswana.. The insurance company rep saying "Yeah it really is a great policy" You know the kind that cost a lot but dont cover anything. That insurance company should be sued until they dont have a dime left in the piggy bank.
Well if you are or was a contracting with a company,then I would think it is the responsibility of the person own health care. Young and stupid and indestructible. tragic accidents resulting in death is ther furthest thing of super altheletes. Then something like this happens. We'll how about the not so famous who are not in the lime light who go unnoticed who are in the same boat because they do not take the time to pay for some type of insurance to cover their health. I am talking about self employed and those who contract with a sponser.
The real question to me is why does the same treatment in Canada cost only a fraction of what it costs in the US? What's wrong with this picture?
Have you had health care in Canada??? First, they have a limited amount of doctors. Second, the quality of the health care is horrendous! My best friend lived there for 25 years and left because of the quality of the healthcare. His friend waited one year for heart surgery!!! He was not permitted to do anything for 1 year, because it was dangerous in his condition. HE COULD HAVE DIED. They also decide whether or not it is worth giving the treatment to the person. For example, if you are going to die from cancer, don't think about trying to lengthen your time by having treatments. They will not permit it.
WRONG Lori. I have many friends who live in Canada and not one of them bitches about their health care. They are terrified of the US health care system when they visit down here because it WILL bankrupt them.
Oh and in the US you will DIE from cancer as your health insurance limits what it will pay causing you to have massive co-pays that will bankrupt the average american. Only in america do you have to make a choice between living and going bankrupt or dying. What a compassionate country we are.
I have been reading this story and the following comments for a couple days and as a Canadian it just blows me away all the misinformation and tabloid style "knowledge" and scare stories some folks have about our healthcare,sombody knows sombody that knew sombody spouted off as facts.I broke my finger in three places dec 31,went to the hospital,they said it would have to be operated on and pinned,what are you doing tonight?6 hrs later newyears eve they fixed my finger,overnight stay,cost nothing,that's what taxes pay for.My bro. died of an inoperable brain cancer,they gave him 3 months to live and he survived two years with all the treatments they provided.I personaly know an american family who moved up here after the husband was diagnosed with cancer,after the initial treatments in the u.s their insurance payed about 2/3 and then backed away.He survived into his seventies even through 3 relapses,he would be the first to tell you had they remained in the states their family would have lost everything.Don't believe all the scare stories some people are throwing up some of these people couldn't point out Canada or name 3 provinces if you put a map in front of them.
I think, as with most medical situations, it depends on where you live. I have Canadian relatives as well, and they have mixed feelings. If you live in smaller towns or more rural areas, you might have a longer wait to see a doctor because there IS a shortage. Canada doesn't pay its doctors well, so of course they don't have enough of them. However, that doesn't necessarily translate to crappy care across the board, and the larger cities naturally have more doctors and shorter waiting periods.
Y'know the saying "you get what you pay for?" Well, turn it around. You don't pay, you don't get.
Canada does not have as many non paying aliens that severely stresses it's resources. One person can go in a pay for a cast on their arm and five more get the same cast without paying. After awhile it takes it's toll on the payers.
privatejoker - thank you so much for your response. As a fellow Canadian as well as a US citizen, I am amazed at the amount of misinformation that people in the US take as gospel...about any topic! Someone makes a statement in a speech or online and everyone takes it as fact instead of researching the information for themselves. The healthcare system in Canada is nothing like the US politicians try to make it seem. I have had multiple surgeries since I've lived in Toronto and have not paid for any of them out of pocket. The last surgery I had, I went to see the specialist to confirm that I did in fact need the surgery...and that was on a Monday. She was prepared to schedule the surgery for the Wednesday! I was the one who asked for a little more time to prepare myself mentally to go under the knife. So the lies and misinformation about the Canadian healthcare system that is put out there to scare the US population is exactly that...lies and misinformation.
The healthcare system in the US is fueled by pharma companies looking to make a profit. The sicker you are, the more money they make. I was a contract event planner in the US and I handled many dinners and special events that were funded by pharma companies that were wining and dining doctors with $125 meals and free trips in order to get them to write prescriptions for their drugs. It's illegal to do that in Canada. That's why our healthcare system is less expensive and better.
I would rather pay higher taxes on goods and services and get my healthcare...and quality healthcare at that...free of charge, than have to pay out of pocket every time I have to see a doctor or end up with a mountain of medical bills that I can't pay.
Some of this discussion is absolutely unacceptable in the insanely rude world we live in...a human being is dead. And, yes it is a dangerous sport. There are risks. One has to ask however how her manager and the event co-ordinatior missed the obvious flaws in her coverage. The other obvious observation is that she was covered by her Canadian Insurance for the same procedures...but for much less...makes you wonder why ours are so much higher...for the SAME treatment...doesn't anyone see a problem here????
Bless her and her family in their grief. She was a great person and a great Athlete...Her skill and performances were magnificent!!!! May she rest in PEACE!!!
Because US healthcare pays for all the research & development on new procedures and pills. Someone has to pay for it & the nations who have cost controls cut that first.
hahahah! you actually believe that bunk?
Another Canadian chiming in to say that most of what you hear in the US about the Canadian system is wrong, and some of it is paid misinformation coming to you thanks to your medical industry. If Americans truly understood how our system works, and how well it works in comparison to yours, your industry would collapse. It's not perfect, especially for those in remote areas where doctors don't want to work. Our doctors are not poorly paid, unless you compare them to the millions of dollars your docs can make by getting in on a piece of the for-profit game.
I've had a few brushes with emergency care, one a problem that led to nine days in hospital, abdominal surgery, three doctors, two different ultrasound tests, an MRI and I can't even remember how many other tests. Total bill at the end: $45, and that was for the ambulance. Had I not been self-employed, the benefits that most employees get would have paid for that.
We also do good research in this country. Canadians were responsible for insulin, nuclear imaging advances, better heart surgery, stem cell and gene research advances. European countries also contribute heavily to medical advances. Yes, the US is a leader, but much of the pure research is done with public funds. Your industry concentrates only on treatments, devices and drugs that will lead to heavy profits (think Viagra, here). The base research that profitable research builds on is usually done by government.
I suppose it is your right to just assume that your system is the best in the world, but that doesn't make it so. I cannot imagine being proud of a system that leaves tens of millions of people out of the loop completely, and can accept that a family can go bankrupt, even when they have insurance.
Having a chronic inherited condition I can say that I have no problem seeing the specialists needed with no wait and not have to pay a penny. I can also say from experience that a neice of mine is one of like 7 people to live and walk after having her neck broken to the point that her skull was internally decapitated all possible through Canadian doctors and a year in the hospital and multipl years of rehabilitation also cost her and her family NOTHING. A brother-in-law had his major artery in his heart blow a 7cm hole and he is also alive today thanks to the great Canadian doctors who fought to save him for over 30 hours in surgery. I have never experienced the U.S. health care system and would never comment on it without first hand knowledge if most people realized there are good and bad to every system and only commented on what they have experienced first hand and not on heresay from their mothers brothers uncles cousin discussions would be more knowledgeable.
jesus folks! wasn't SHE responsible for her own healthcare? AND McMillen and heather are correct. her estate should pay what it can. the debts are the decedent's.
She had insurance - but insurance companies will find any "loophole" they can to not pay. If you re-read the article, you will see that her coverage had a "gap" in it that wouldn't pay for her specific "event". This is insurance at its worst and it happens all the time. They will find any way possible to not pay for the person covered. Just another way to rip off the individuals.
Why should they cover someone who takes such a great risk???? They would have to be stupid.
because they accepted money to cover her....
If you pay for a service, you should expect that service lori... thats how business works.
To black knight:
We do not have the best healthcare in the world. Many countries are far advanced in technology and equipment such as ultrasound diagnostics and medical communicaton between speciality groups. We are not as advanced as you think we are for the money that is spent.
Am I the only one who read this thinking - I wish liberals stopped getting front page articles written up for MSNBC?
Let's all just all sing another round of Koombyah and see if that solves the worlds problems. The hippies from the 60's realized communes don't work - why can't the people writing trash like this learn from the mistakes made by a generation nearly 50 years ago?
The logic flaw here is in failing to realize that just because communes and Koombyah don't work doesn't mean that unregulated capitalism does. Democrats and socialists aren't pushing for communist utopia's any more, their smarter than that. Too bad the idiots in the Tea Party are still pushing for 1800s era regulatory laws. Aside from me smacking them over the head and taking their money, they pretty much feel every other government control of "business" is a crime. Trusts, their cool; monopolies, no problem there; union busting, here let me help; hereditary money, we love it!; buying an election, awesome; OSHA, tar em and feather em; environmental protection?, we love watching our rivers burn; your sick/injured, here I'll sell you a bullet; etc...
The thing is, we ought to outlaw health insurance alltogether. After all, the whole practice is simply voluntary socialism and socialism is pure evil. Let's all hold hands and if you get sick, I'll help pay for it and if I get sick, you help me pay. bleh, right? If it's a crime to force "voluntary" Americans (free country, free to leave) to be in a single insurance pool, how isn't it a crime to allow people to voluntarily join insurance pools? Insurance is SOCIALISM, People shouldn't have the CHOICE to choose SOCIALISM in AMERICA!
jesus folks! wasn't SHE responsible?
Thank you! Yes..she decided to take a chance with her life every run.
She had insurance - but insurance companies will find any "loophole" they can to not pay. If you re-read the article, you will see that her coverage had a "gap" in it that wouldn't pay for her specific "event". This is insurance at its worst and it happens all the time. They will find any way possible to not pay for the person covered. Just another way to rip off the individuals.
Yes, I wanted to enter a stop the sharp fan blades with your tongue contest and my insurance company had the never no have a gap in my coverage for willfully entering self destructive events! The nerve of them! I should be allowed to compete for big prizes by playing russian roulette and not have to worry about who pays for my injuries!
I really dont see how the hositpal can charge her family for her care, now that she gone.
Because life isn't free and neither is death.
Regardless of whether or not she's dead, the hospital provided care, physicians, nurses and other hospital employees provided care, and they deserve to be paid for their services. Medicine is an ART, not an exact science, and there are no guarantees. She received services, and her caregivers deserve payment. Period. It's not rocket science.
Regardless of whether or not she's dead, the hospital provided care, physicians, nurses and other hospital employees provided care, and they deserve to be paid for their services. Medicine is an ART, not an exact science, and there are no guarantees. She received services, and her caregivers deserve payment. Period. It's not rocket science.
The article states that bills were about 200k and people had raised over 300k..so what are the parents going to do with the rest of the money that was raised, thats my question. It is terrible what happened but seems to me the family is having a bigger issue with the finances than the daughters death. I recently went threw a similar tradgedy and the bills were the last thing on my mind.
"... Burke’s donation fund has reached its goal, and the rest of the money would go towards “post-hospital arrangements such as services and memorial costs and to establish a foundation to honor Sarah’s legacy and promote the ideals she valued and embodied.”
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/sarah-burkes-donation-fund-reaches-goal-of-200000/
That's not correct. The husband has not filed any of the $200,000 bill with the Canadian Minister of Health. Canada will pay for the usual and customary costs. Even if they pay for only say, $100,000, that leaves over 200 grand in the kitty. This woman made very good money. This "fund" should be unnecessary. Husband is probably laughing all the way to the bank.
lets see here the real doctors are from overseas and they do care about their patirnts in india you can get hip replacement surgery for 5 grand here it would cost 50 grand now theres something wrong with this picture and theres a plus they will put you up in a luxury spa while you are recouping now all you insurance advocates can you tell us why the hospitals are ripping us off like this
Luxury Spa.. Yeah right, be careful not to lay in the cow crap......
boe- you are NOT the only one! there are two of us.
She was not an employee of Monster, and not entitiled to medical coverage as if she were. It's as simple as that. People that are self-employed don't get insurance coverage from the people they sell their services to. The Monster sponsorship of Sarah is no different.
Wendy - it's not as simple as that. No one's saying Monster had to insure her: they're saying it's virtually standard in sports to require performers to be insured, the same way a trucking firm has to make sure its drivers have the appropriate license. In America's high schools and colleges, students are not allowed to play sports unless they have health insurance and pass a physical. Often the schools have athletic insurance programs available for kids whose parents have no insurance. Professional and amateur boxers have the same requirements.