I agree. Get her in the system asap. As for her emotionally, I wish her the best and hope she gets other people in her life that can love on her like a family offers. Poor child, this is very sad.

I agree that a rare exception can be made in this instance to grant this girl legal status if two preconditions are satisfied: (1) someone agrees to pay for her healthcare and health insurance (not the U.S. taxpayers), and (2) someone agrees to adopt her. I am very sorry for this girls' tragedy, and the fact that her entire immediate family was killed is the basis for my belief that in this instance this one girl should be afforded legal status.

However, I have to ask: Why wasn't this family deported long ago? It is inexcusable that our government is so ineffectual that five people can live ILLEGALLY in plain sight without our government doing its job. This tragedy highlights the fact that ILLEGALS impose extraordinary financial costs upon the U.S. taxpaying public. Imagine the enormity of the cost of this girl's healthcare several days in the hospital.

A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERALE! This will be a huge issue in Election 2012, as Americans voters across the political spectrum (including this life-long Democrat, demand that our government DEPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS). We will not vote for those leaders (including the current Administration) which is H#LL bent on refusing to enforce our immgration laws unless and until some additional lawbreaking occurs. That is de facto amnesty, and it is UNACCEPTABLE and UNSUSTAINABLE!

Angelica

I can type in bold too, and you never answered from last time...

First, where's that Miami Herold Editorial you're so fond of???

• Roughly 8 million of the 11 million "illegals" file taxes. And, come to think of it, if paying taxes is such a big deal, why aren't you all consistently moaning about all the "legal" citizens who cheat on theirs every year?

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• To deport one person costs $12,500, deporting every "illegal" would be more than the entire budget allocated to HLS.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• 1996 Welfare Reform disqualified undocumented people from any type of means tested assistance. That means Medicaid, food stamps, monthly cash... They can only collect for their legal citizen children and the amount given is only for the number of legal children. Which is a piddlesquat amount that they would be taking from you anyway, it would just be going to something not as noble as feeding innocent, hungry children. And remember number one, they pay into the taxes that fund these programs also.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• The IRS assigns ITIN numbers to all workers regardless of their immigration status, ensuring that they pay into Social Security. However, undocumented workers use fake SSN'S, ergo they can't collect. We than move that money into earning suspense accounts and use it on citizens.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• It takes roughly eight years to immigrate here legally, and they only allow already established professionals and family members of citizens. It also takes an extraordinary amount of attorney's fees, paperwork fees, and bureaucratic BS which is impossible for indigent people to handle.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

You took a page right out of Karl Rove's conservative playbook, didn't you??? Claim to be "one" of them to give yourself creditability. Convince them to go do the labor intensive research. And than, when all else fails dehumanize and go for the juggular. I feel like a need a shower after reading your tripe.

You really need to chill out, I'm not that important, nor am I worth such a vitriolic hatred. Really, I'm not. You know, as a social worker, I've noticed that the stronger and more vociferous the response, the more people are hiding something and the closer I am to the truth.

Sarah all of this can be true that you have on your post.. and your claim to be a social worker that someone is hiding something because they talk about it... look at your post.... you have something to hide?????? Lets just face it if your here illegal what part of that don't you understand?

Equal justice for all. Just because her family was killed and she was injured does't make her immune.

Gil, compassion is something wonderful, the lack of it is what is causing the disintegration of values in this country. I am sure when she arrived as a 3 year old she did not make the choice to move here, this is the only country she remembers.

Justice for all I agree, it would be an injustice to send a girl back to a country she has not seen for 12 years and away from a country where she has lived most of her life. Her outlook, way of life and thinking are as American as any American.

i feel for her and am saddened by her loss, but when do the exceptions end, 1, 1000, 100,000, 10,000,000. if i was a one issue voter i would be voting tea party for this one issue.

when will all this end?

Well, I'm not taking sides here, but I do know media. That post by Rove makes me nauseous, but if he wrote one then so did Soros or any one of his liberal counterpoints. They ALL do the same thing and anyone who thinks otherwise is shockingly naive.

I agree PH--- the dishonesty is on both sides (Republican and Democratic). It's just incredible that both parties have sold out the American worker in favor of ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS. Americans are getting wise to this fact, and will employ that knowledge at the polls in Election 2012! I believe that very strongly!

The story said she has relatives here in the US.

As a orphan minor child she is the responsibilty of the country she is in. I would hope any American children found in these circumstance in other countries are taken care of. She has relatives that wan't to adopt her so let them do it. Children should not be the pawns in an immigration controversy.

Really??? So common to have individualsas yourself assume that you pay for someones medical bills when you don't know their situation. So many immigrants with good paying jobs with health insurance. Maybe we should be concerned about the mental medical bills we would have to pay for you when you get old and you don't health insurance or that social security to pay your medical bills.

AngelicaS and Sarah-3043284 both are proving exactly why AMERICA is going down the tubes.

After reading this whole thread I almost threw up seriously. A tragedy of epic proportions has been distorted by liberal media biasing this tragedy with the word IMMIGRATION in the headline. These two newsviners jumped on the MSNBC SENSATIONAL HEADLINES MAKES US MONEY bandwagon and made this tragedy a DISGUSTING THING.

Shame on you MSNBC for taking this horrific tragedy and turning into a vat of disgusting venom with a sensational headline. YOUR TRUE MEDIA AGENDA HERE IS PROFIT AND IT STINKS

Thanks to both of you two newsviners for turning this horrific tragedy into a disgusting troll fest between you both and pumping MSNCS GREEDY AGENDA, you both look grand .

I pity this poor girl and her family if this is all this discussion here is about immigration

Where can I send a donation to help her is what we all should be asking.

Sarah psot all the garbage you want bu the bottom line is this: we are a country of laws and these people broke them to come here. If we dont live by the law we end up with people like Obama in the White House who feels he is not accountable for any of his actions. This simply can not happen. And by the way, if these people are here ilegally then how does the government know who is and isnt paying taxes? How can an illegal alien pay taxes without a SSN? How does the government know hwo amny peopel are or are not payign taxes if they supposedly got here under the radar? illegals should be deported no matter the cost. They take jobs, commit crimes, and send money back to their countries thus stealing from our economy and the true taxpayers of the country.

Thanks Anjelica.

Everyone has their beliefs. Personally, I'm an independent and I get frustrated when I get called names FROM BOTH SIDES when I take a stance one way or another. Civil discourse in this country has gone the way of the dinosaur and until it comes back we are just helping Congress destroy the country.

Angelica, the world is not as simplistic as your rants would imply. Your background must be a very conservative one because, as a flaming independent, lack of common sense and reality is a hallmark of cons, much the same way libs are affected by dreams and fantasies. There would be NO problems in the world if it was as structured as you believe. It is not, has never nor ever WILL be that simplistic. Let reality in and all your 'facts' will make sense, even to you.

You do have to admit that your tactics do ooze right from the outline by that guy that used to get beat up by little girls when he was in school, don't you? HE needs to get over it and face that fact that no matter how vile and nasty he gets he'll NEVER be a man. Poor little thieving Karl. Interesting that he spells his name the same way that a guy with the last name Marx did. Hmmm...

wouldn't she be better off to return to her home country?

unless of course, all of her relatives are already here...living illegally in the U.S.

Fight, fight!!!

Sarah - The key word is "illegal". Most don't have a problem with those who come in legally and apply for citizenship. Most do have problems with those who are here illegally where in we AMERICAN's CITIZENS of the UNITED STATES have to pay for their education, medical and in some cases housing. This is not right!!!

No problem raise my taxes, we`ll pay for everybody to come here anyway they get here who cares anymore! Our taxes are cheep!! Take 50% and let them all in!!!!! You jackasses!!!! ILLEGAL look it up, it says we stupid, thems smart who cheat the system!

Actually, from what I'm seeing here, it appears that both Sarah and Angelica need to take a nap and relax. Sarah threw a bunch of statistics out there, intimated that they were factual, and challenged Angelica to provide proof that they weren't true. Angelica provided references and quotes shooting down Sarah's claims, but devolved into name calling and childishness. Sarah decided to join in the childishness while acting all too superior, and Angelica returned fire.

What a waste of time.

It's easy to go out and find out for one's self what is going on: illegal immigration is one of many factors that are taking a huge toll on the American economy. Forget deporting them, if you don't want to pay the cost: deny them work and freebies and enforce the possibility of jail or deportation and they will leave on their own. They are not the not-so-bad problem that Sarah would like us all to think: they are a plague. At the same time, normal adults generally don't call names and act childish, Angelica. You pretty much destroyed your argument here: those who are liberal are generally more concerned with appearances, so when you appeared angry or demeaning they had an excuse to paint all conservatives that way and avoid having to prove any of their assertions.

Can we just talk about the issues?

Give yourself (and us) a break "Little Mike with the little brain". Say something encouraging for this tragic situation.

I see you have resorted to personal attacks, very mature.

I did say something positive about this situation, I went against my usual "deport all illegals" stance and would allow her to stay in the US as long as she was put into the system. I understand that she came to this country at a very young age and it is not her fault her parents dragged her along. Now the people that brought her here are dead, she has family here so let them have her.

I found both Sarah and Angelica to be flaming, or "when an online argument becomes nasty or derisive, where insulting a party to the discussion takes precedence over the objective merits of one side or another".

It takes roughly eight years to immigrate here legally, and they only allow already established professionals and family members of citizens. It also takes an extraordinary amount of attorney's fees, paperwork fees, and bureaucratic BS which is impossible for indigent people to handle.

Ah, but if an immigrant family truly wanted to emigrate here, they would take the time and effort to legally emigrate. Otherwise it's "cheating", and it's illegal.

Coming here illegally is no excuse, no matter what their circumstances; in fact, it's unfair to everyone else who actually did take the time (8 years, according to your own words) to emigrate here legally. If they are truly serious about getting American citizenship and moving to America [which, I suspect, a majority of potential immigrants do], then they need to put in the time and effort to come here legally.

The only exception should be in a case like Cuba, where the U.S. government allowed - and still allows - clemency for those Cubans who manage to land on American soil, due to Castro's communist regime.

"Bureaucratic BS" or not, no one is exempt from the law. [Except for the girl from this article, apparently, but she is a very rare case].

fatibel--if I read it right, the story ALSO makes clear that the family still considers itself tied to the "old country'' enough to expect that government to pay to fly the bodies "home" for burial.

So there must surely be SOME family still back there?

Or is the family merely trying to avoid paying for the burials here?

Rowr. fffftttt.

Sarah, I realize this this may be somewhat limiting, but don't twist my words. I said "Angelica provided references and quotes shooting down Sarah's claims". If you wish to argue, now argue with the sources she provided. Right now she has the upper hand in the actual argument, having provided verifiable sources.

Well said, Mike.

Let the relatives adopt her and then she can stay. It's really no different than a couple adopting a baby from China.

pull the short yellow bus over, i want to get off.

to Sarah.. You said 8 million of the 11 million illegals file tax returns?? I'm concerned with who's SS numbers their using.. so, that means that 8 million illegals are using deceased people or stolen SS numbers?? You can not file tax returns and omit your ss number on it..

Let the relatives adopt her and then she can stay. It's really no different than a couple adopting a baby from China.

...except that a baby from China has legal documentation. The Brazilian girl, on the other hand, has steep paperwork to fill (and years to wait) if she wants to become a full citizen, especially if she's lived here her entire life. Hopefully her relatives will aid her with this endeavor.

Angelica,

One of the many problems with this country is that we don't care about real statistics like the ones you posted. All we care about is our convictions and not hurting peoples' feelings. Who cares about the welfare state we're creating by not enforcing this particular law. My bet is that Sarah is from a state that doesn't have a lot of problems with illegals, or she is directly attached emotionally to an illegal immigrant. Maybe if she moved down to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or So Cal and got in a wreck with an illegal who won't have insurance. Or possibly went to an emergency room visit and saw that it has half filled with illegal immigrants who are not going to pay a bill to get care. WARNING... evil statistics to follow...

“What is unseen is their [illegal aliens’] free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing their doors,” Madeleine Peiner Cosman, Ph.D., Esq., “Illegal Aliens and American Medicine,” Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Spring 2005.

The Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a research report exploring the full scope of this crisis plaguing the American healthcare delivery system:

Immigrants are often uninsured and underinsured. Forty-three percent of noncitizens under 65 have no health insurance. That means there are 9.4 million uninsured immigrants, a majority of whom [are] in the country illegally, constituting 15 percent of the total uninsured in the nation in the mid-1990s. The cost of the medical care of these uninsured immigrants is passed onto the taxpayer, and strains the financial stability of the health care community.

Another problem is immigrants’ use of hospital and emergency services rather than preventative medical care. For example, utilization rate of hospitals and clinics by illegal aliens (29 percent) is more than twice the rate of the overall U.S. population (11 percent).
As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $8.5 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $4 billion per year.

I kind of enjoy living in one of the best countries in the world. I feel sorry for those who don't live here, but I recognize the fact that we can't just open the floodgates, and let anyone live here who wants to live here. We have a process in place that lets people immigrate at a sustainable rate. This process also helps them integrate into our society, and become productive, tax-paying citizens. When that process is bypassed, the rest of the country pays for it.

Some of you people on here are so narrow minded its not even funny. everyone is acting like illegal immigrants being here is so bad but this country would not funtion if we didnt have them. like 90 percent of construction companies hire illegal immigrants as works (i know because i have a family member who owns a construction company and half of his workers are illegal immigrants.) the cleaning crew at my job are all illegal immigrants. companies hire them because they work harder then most americans. and guess what? THEY ALL PAY TAXES! no, they cant get health insurance and they cant file to get their taxes back but its not like they are here sponging off of us. most americans also dont have health insurance but you dont acuse them of sponging off of us. and last i checked, a hospital cant refuse to help you based off of ur ability to pay. it doesnt matter if your legal, illegal, poor, rich, have parents or relatives that can help or not or if you have insuarnce or not. that hospital has to treat you. instead of thinking about this poor girl who is in emotion and physical pain right now, you all turned her tragic story into an immigration debat that isnt even going to make a diffrence in the world. some of you all just make me sick!

Wow Harold--- you showed me! Great job "playing me" Uhhhhuh!

sorry for her loses, but she should have the proper requirements to enter or stay in this country...i have an asian wife for 7 years now and the paper work to allow her to stay here is so krazy..why should i have to do this and she don't ....is that fair.....me and my wife both work ,,pay our TAXES..and our medical bills without insurance...so why should she get special treatment...as i said sorry for her loses and wish NOBOBY would have to go threw this, god bless them,...but there are rules and if i ,,a tax paying american,, have to follow them, why should not everyone else..no matter what the circumstanes are

I have, Vyper. Her sources are location specific editorials. For example...

2. As posted on the LA County Mayor's website:

January 19, 2011 -- Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich released figures from the Department of Public Social Services showing that in November 2010, $53 million in welfare benefits ($22 million CalWORKs + $31 million in Food Stamps) were issued to parents who reside in the United States illegally and collect benefits for their native-born children in Los Angeles
County -- representing an increase of nearly 3 million from November 2009. This
amounts to approximately 22% of all CalWORKs and Food Stamp issuances in the
County.

In 2009, CalWORKs and Food Stamp issuances to illegals totaled nearly $570 million. Based on the monthly figures in 2010, the total cost for the year will exceed $600 million.

"When you add this to $550 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers exceeds $1.6 billion dollars a year – not including the hundreds of millions of dollars for education," said Antonovich.

Is meaningless out of context. This is a county wide expense estimate, but 8 million out of the 11 million illegals file personal income taxes nationwide, as well as pay all other taxes that are levied. Which means, what they pay into the system, more than covers estimated costs. As I said above we take a bigger hit from people who cheat on their taxes, or exploit loop holes.

Her IRS claims fall under the same contradiction, and the statement isn't coming from the IRS directly, it's coming from whoever wrote that article.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau...

Illegal immigrants on average save us $50 billion, while costing on average $16 billion, each year. That means they save us about $34 billion (or roughly two years in Afganistan). Included in that $16 billion is what the estimates are for educating their children. That's an overall number, so her expense claims are encompassed by that.

Angelica,

Calling what you write tripe, isn't a personal insult, specifically when it's filled with name calling, nor is calling you out on what you post or how you skew stuff. Disagreement doesn't = insult.

Try again.

Angelica

Citation 1 - FAIL - not an insult

Citation 2 - FAIL - not an insult

Citation 3 - FAIL - not an insult

Citation 4 - FAIL - not an insult

Citation 5 - CREDIBLE- She shouldn't have called your opinion tripe and she should have left out the "shower" mark.

For these keeping score, you are still CRUSHING her in the number of insults thrown. But good job finding the 1.

I find Newsvine SO entertaining. To those who think the kind of banter between Sarah and Angelica is "bad" or "what is wrong with this country"... NONSENSE. It's what's GREAT about this country... it's just that the anonymous internet give it a rough edge.

Here's the bottom line... put Sarah and Angelica in a room together where they are face to face, and you will find two Democrats with different ideals talking policy. For those of us who like policy talk (me), I would find the two of them COMPLETELY FASCINATING TO LISTEN TO. I'm sure of that.

Correct Epithermal--- the facts matter. As Americans we have a duty to support that which is in the long-term best interests of our country--- not pander to discrete groups that choose to break our laws and then demand rewards!

Matthew,

Many of them have family or friends who are here legally, and they tend to use theirs. SCOTUS has recognized the difference between identity theft of SSN's and using one under false pretenses.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday rejected a favorite tool of prosecutors in immigration cases, ruling unanimously that a federal identity-theft law may not be used against many illegal workers who used false Social Security numbers to get jobs.

The question in the case was whether workers who use fake identification numbers to commit some other crimes must know they belong to a real person to be subject to a two-year sentence extension for “aggravated identity theft.”

The answer, the Supreme Court said, is yes.

Prosecutors had used the threat of that punishment to persuade illegal workers to plead guilty to lesser charges of document fraud.

“The court’s ruling preserves basic ideals of fairness for some of our society’s most vulnerable workers,” said Chuck Roth, litigation director at the National Immigrant Justice Center in Chicago. “An immigrant who uses a false Social Security number to get a job doesn’t intend to harm anyone, and it makes no sense to spend our tax dollars to imprison them for two years.”

Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. said in a concurring opinion that a central flaw in the interpretation of the law urged by the government was that it made criminal liability turn on chance. Consider, Justice Alito said, a defendant who chooses a Social Security number at random.

“If it turns out that the number belongs to a real person,” Justice Alito wrote, “two years will be added to the defendant’s sentence, but if the defendant is lucky and the number does not belong to another person, the statute is not violated.”

The most sweeping use of the statute was in Iowa, after an immigration raid in May 2008 at a meatpacking plant in Postville. Nearly 300 unauthorized immigrant workers from the plant, most of them from Guatemala, pleaded guilty to document-fraud charges rather than risk being convicted at trial of the identity-theft charge. In most of those cases, the prosecutors demonstrated only that the Social Security numbers and immigration documents the workers had presented were false.

Many of the immigrants served five-month prison sentences and then faced summary deportation. The Postville cases raised an outcry among immigrant advocates, because they transformed into federal felonies a common practice by illegal immigrants of presenting fake Social Security numbers and other documents to employers.

The court’s ruling is unlikely to aid the immigrants in the Postville cases. Most of them have long since been deported.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer, in his opinion for the court, said the case should be decided by applying “ordinary English grammar” to the text of the law, which applies when an offender “knowingly transfers, possesses or uses, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person.”

The government had argued that the “knowingly” requirement applied only to the verbs in question. Justice Breyer rejected that interpretation, saying that “it seems natural to read the statute’s word ‘knowingly’ as applying to all the subsequently listed elements of the crime.”

He gave examples from everyday life to support this view. “If we say that someone knowingly ate a sandwich with cheese,” Justice Breyer wrote, “we normally assume that the person knew both that he was eating a sandwich and that it contained cheese.”

Five justices joined all of Justice Breyer’s opinion, and three others — Justices Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas — concurred in the result and in some of the reasoning.

The defendant in the case, Flores-Figueroa v. United States, No. 08-108, was Ignacio Flores-Figueroa, a Mexican citizen who had worked illegally for a steel plant in Illinois. At first, Mr. Flores-Figueroa used a false name and fake Social Security number, one that did not happen to match that of a real person. Six years later, he told his employer that he wanted to be known by his real name, and he presented forged Social Security and alien registration cards that bore numbers assigned to real people.

Mr. Flores-Figueroa eventually pleaded guilty to several immigration offenses, resulting in a 51-month sentence, but he went to trial to contest charges under the identity-theft law. He was convicted and sentenced to the additional two years mandated by the law. Monday’s decision reversed that two-year extension.

Kevin K. Russell, a lawyer for Mr. Flores-Figueroa, said his client is in federal prison in Georgia. After Mr. Flores-Figueroa has served his time, Mr. Russell said, “I assume the government will try to deport him.”

Nearly 8 million illegal immigrants are working in the United States, the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington estimates.

Stephen H. Legomsky, a professor of immigration law at Washington University School of Law in St. Louis, said Monday’s decision would have a major impact on the strategy of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, making it more difficult for the agency to press criminal charges against immigrants with no other offenses but working illegally.

“In the ordinary immigration case, this will no longer be a weapon,” Professor Legomsky said.

The Obama administration has said that it will shift the focus of immigration enforcement to employers who intentionally hire unauthorized immigrants in order to pay lower wages or otherwise lower costs. But last week the administration said agents would continue to detain illegal immigrants found in raids.

Adam Liptak reported from Washington, and Julia Preston from New York. David Stout contributed reporting from Washington.

I'm a legal immigrant. It took time, and money. I pay my taxes, I pay my own health insurance. And yet not me, but my illegal "friends" go to Hawaii three times a year while collecting CalWorks and Food Stamps every month (for their children) and have free healthcare provided. Officialy they are "broke", right? There is something wrong with the system that favors those, who don't obey the law.. Where I come from, they wouldn't be even able to open a bank account or cash a check without 'papers'. Not to mention a driver's license. And they WOULD be deported. USA is a very 'forgiving' country... and that SHOULD change.

Vyper--- Here is the entire Washington Post article --- Contrary to Sarah's false assertions--- The Washington Post obviously utilized government statistics. The Washington Post is a pretty reputable source!
_______________________________________________________________________________

Washington Post September 2^nd 2011

Undocumented workers got billions from IRS in tax credits, audit finds

By Lisa Rein

The Internal Revenue Service allowed undocumented workers to collect $4.2 billion in refundable tax credits last year, a new audit says, almost quadruple the sum five years ago.

Although undocumented workers are not eligible for federal benefits, the report released Thursday by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration concludes that federal law is ambiguous on whether these workers qualify for a tax break based on earned income called the additional child tax credit.

Taxpayers can claim this credit to reduce what they owe in taxes, often getting refunds from the government. The vagueness of federal law may have contributed to the $4.2 billion in credits, the report said.

The IRS said it lacks the authority to disallow the claims.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, On Friday announced plans to examine the refunds.

“The disconcerting findings in this report demand immediate attention and action from Congress and the Obama Administration,” Hatch said in a statement.. “With our debt standing at over $14.5 trillion and
counting, it’s outrageous that the IRS is handing out refundable tax credits...to those who aren’t even eligible to work in this country.”

Wage earners who do not have Social Security numbers and are not authorized to work in the United States can use what the IRS calls individual taxpayer identification numbers. Often these result in
fraudulent claims on tax returns, auditors found.

Their data showed that 72 percent of returns filed with taxpayer identification numbers claimed the child tax credit.

The audit recommended that the IRS seek clarification on the law and check the immigration status of filers with taxpayer indentification numbers.

IRS officials, in response to a draft of the report, agreed to consult with the Treasury Department on the law. But they said they have no legal authority to demand that filers prove their legal status when the
tax agency processes returns.

Changes to tax law are partly to blame for the explosion in refunds for additional child tax credits in recent years, auditors found. Before 2001, filers needed to have three or more children to qualify — and to
owe more Social Security taxes than earned income credits.

But those requirements have been eliminated and the allowable refund for each child doubled. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 also made the refund easier to get, auditors found.

Angelica, I'm confused as to how someone's opinion turns into lies? Just because she doesn't agree with your liberal point of views doesn't make her a lier. Can we all grow up and move on now? The fact of the matter is that this child just lost all that is most important to her, in one day, one instant. Yes, I understand that this article brings up the topic of deporting illegal immigrants, but can we move passed that for once?

96 Welfare Reform excluded undocumented people from means testing assitance

That was the intent; however, a report by the Office of Inspector General Daniel R. Levinson of the Department of Health & Human Services has found that most states make little effort to verify the citizenship status of Medicaid applicants

you can read his report here: http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-02-03-00190.pdf

I find it disingenuous, to say the least, to try to convince others that the same people who so flagrantly skirt our immigration laws will somehow become honest and law-abiding when it comes to other rules and regulations that might impede their ability to game the system

I keep reading 8 of the 11 million illegals file and pay all their taxes, I am not disputing it, I would just like a link so I can read up on it. Seems very interesting to me why people would voluntarily pay taxes on undocumented income they make.

I believe that Sarah and Angelica should settle this with a mud wrestling match.

Robbo,

This is it, word for word, I don't find anything to objectionable. As I said above, why isn't there such an out cry about those who cheat on their taxes, and we would still be paying the same amount.

IMMIGRANT PROVISIONS IN PRWORA

Federal Law—PROWRA and Amendments

The 1996 PROWRA legislation generally barred legal immigrants who entered the country after August 22, 1996 from receiving means-tested, federally funded assistance (i.e., Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income, and Food Stamps) for their first five years in the country. But immigrants living in the country as of that date were barred altogether from the Food Stamps and SSI programs until they became citizens. (States could provide cash assistance under TANF and Medicaid to legal immigrants who were living in the country on August 22, 1996.)

The PRWORA legislation also cut off other groups by redefining “qualified alien.” For example, it excluded from this definition certain people who had been in the U.S. for a long time and whom the Immigration and Naturalization Service or a court had decided not to deport; their status was previously considered to be “permanently residing under color of law (PRUCOL).”

The law exempted certain immigrants from the bar on assistance. They included refugees, people granted asylum, victims of domestic violence, non-citizens who were veterans of the U.S. armed forces, people who had worked in the U.S. for 40 calendar quarters, and other selected groups. However, assistance for some of these groups was and remains time-limited.

Immigrants in the U.S. illegally were barred from benefits, except for assistance for medical emergencies.

Congress loosened the restrictions on Food Stamp, SSI, and TANF eligibility in 1997 and 1998 (PL 105-18, PL 105-33, PL 105-185). And in 2002, Congress passed the Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002 (PL 107-171). The part of the act re-authorizing the Food Stamp program included provisions that made it easier for legal immigrants to get back into the Food Stamps program, in several stages:

1. October 1, 2002 for disabled “qualified” legal immigrants who met the definition of disability in the Food Stamp law regardless of when they entered the U.S.;

2. April 1, 2003 for “qualified” immigrants ages 18-64 who had been in the U.S. for five years (this ended PRWORA's seven-year limit on Food Stamp benefits for refugees and people who had been granted asylum); and

3. October 1, 2003 for qualified immigrant children without the five-year residency requirement.

When we make work illegal, it's disengenuous to say that because they break the law one way (work) they will skirt the law in other ways. The law is the problem, not necessarily those who need to work.

Imagine how much more funds and energy we could throw at drug runners, and the actual criminals, if we stopped wasting our energy demonizing people who's crime is needing opportunity.

Seems very interesting to me why people would voluntarily pay taxes on undocumented income they make.

Great comment Mike.

Please see my post directly above yours

....we are somehow supposed to believe that the same people who work and live here illegally suddenly turn into upstanding law-abiding citizens when it comes to paying taxes?

....I personally find that hard to believe

http://www.visalaw.com/01apr3/15apr301.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_8314356_taxes-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay.html

Mike, there you go. You can also check out the census bureau and the department of labor.

My question for Sarah is: How can an illegal immigrant file personal income tax without an SSN? As an illegal immigrant they are unable to get an SSN. So apparently, if they are really filling IRS forms, they are doing it illegally. Now we have compounded crimes. But per Sarah, as I understand her opinion, the illegal immigrant who files income taxes is not a criminal. I am really confused now. Could someone please explain this connundrum to me, please.

Harold--- If you make a false statement against someone--- that IS AN INSULT to be certain!!

It's so funny when people go all, "oh deport illegals, they shouldn't be here, this is a country with laws". Usonians have a VERY short memory. What's your surname? Unless is is something from a Seminole, Hopi, or any other Native American nation or tribe, you came here illegally. I doesn't matter how long it was, it doesn't matter what your world of make believe mind tells you, this is stolen land. The problem is that the Native Americans' own Homeland Security wasn't effective. And a lot of people fail to notice that the ones coming here from Brasil are not your typical low class, most of the ones I know used to be wealthy in their home country, and here they are successful people. Money is not the only motive why people leave their homelands, there are other reasons. It's funny because being from Central Florida I hear people talking about the Brasilian tourists comparing them with Mexicans and the like; first of all they don't even share the same language, they speak Portuguese, you know, that country in Europe, next to Spain (from where the Castilian Spanish language came from). Brasil is to Portugal similar to what the US, New Zealand, and Australia are to England. These Brasilian tourists are not low class or whatever way Usonians like to call them, these are wealthy people that come here and spend a LOT of money on their vacations. Usonians really need to wake up from this dream of grandeur, we are not THAT special anymore. The important thing is that a young girl lost all of her immediate family, I sure wish her the best and that she can find comfort with her other family.

"Fight, fight!!!"

Not just a fight.............a cat-fight.

Pass the jello, please?

La,

If you scroll up to post 1.56, I do my best to explain that cunnundrum.

Gentlemen, can we please not become "creepy internets dudes". Lol, I would greatly appreciate it, and no there will be no wrestling of any kind, including mud and/or jello, seeing as this is over the internet. If you're looking for that, you're on the wrong website. Sorry.

While I'm not qualified to authoritatively comment on other sources, as a professional tax preparer I can comment on the tax situation with illegals. In my personal experience, every illegal I've dealt with (which by far is no majority of the population), has attempted to fraudulently claim and manipulate the tax system to get refunds as large as $7,000. I've had a couple that has lied about living together and withholding tax information to get me to file both of them as head of household and complain at getting a $5,000 refund because they expected a larger one. Being an illegal immigrant should disqualify you from a number of credits but they do frequently claim credits like the child tax credit and the additional child tax credit. This couple also had three dependents on had that I could claim "If I needed to", which indicated that they were looking to milk the system for the maximum refund possible through disingenuous means. So the claim that illegals do not take advantage of the tax system in the United States seems a little incredible.

La ---

The government provides ILLEGALS "TIN" numbers because it takes the position that just because they are here ILLEGALLY, if they earn income, they must pay taxes on it. Many ILLEGALS do not report their income though (and that is a crime). Regardless, ILLEGALS commit numreous felonies and other crimes by working in this country ILLEGALLY--- (1) falsifying an I-9, which is required to be submitted to the employer to verify you can work lawfully) is a FELONY, (2) stealing someone's social security number is a FELONY, (3) driving without a license is a crime, (4) no insurance is a crime, (5) entering the U.S. after being deported = a FELONY!

Additionally, as you can see from my post ((#1.58), ILLEGALS are also committing fraud in their tax returns and claimed $4.2 Billion in tax credits last year.

Sarah - it is nice that you know the law. Doesn't mean the law is enforced; doesn't mean that illegals are not getting Gov't assistance. You need to wake up and smell the coffee! The Federal Gov't system has many flaws...

Scooby voice: Rut row. LA just got b-slapped from both sides.

UNREAL! You are all so fleckking UNREAL! Here you all are, arguing about a dmnd dollar that ALL of us HAVE to pay anyway, whether it goes to a 15 year old girl, or to your favorite POLITICIAN'S PANTS POCKET!!!

Can ANY of you comprehend what the h3ll this child is feeling right now, after being told nearly EVERY ONE IN HER FAMILY GOT KILLED? Her MOMMY, her DADDY, her SISTER, and UNCLE....

What a bunch of greedy, hateful A$$holes we now have in this country! I don't like illegals taking my money either, but this CHILD will NEVER be the same! Her life will be filled with a grief that half of you hateful neanderthals would never even know, much less live with. *shakes head*
I pity you cold-blooded lot!

Condolences to this child and anyone else this tragedy had touched.

No No No UDon'tSay--- I was just providing LA some information. I undertand LA's confusion because it is just incredible that our government is permitting this lawbreaking scheme to continue to harm us!

Paul,

I never said it didn't. But demonizing one group, for what everyone does, is biased. Afterall, legal citizens cheat on their taxes and break laws also. I mean, I have a lead foot, should I now be deemed an "illegal"? Our whole government needs reform, from immigration to entitlements, from Wall St to labor unions. But let's actually work on solving the problem, in an effecient and fair way, one that benefits everybody.

Multinational corporations and certain non-profits have a vested interest in keeping immigration screwed up. Politicians are in their pockets. Both of those groups understand that mass deportation and wall building will never happen and will never work. At the same time, they need to pander to constituents. Mix this all together and you have a big boiling pot of manipulation, wedge issues, and manufactored boogiemen.

If we are really interested in focusing on the actual problem, let's look at lobbiests and campaign finance, gerrymandering, and the unholy alliance between Wall St and Washington.

Demonizing an entire demographic of people, who aren't going anywhere, is hardly a solution.

"Gentlemen, can we please not become "creepy internets dudes". Lol, I would greatly appreciate it, and no there will be no wrestling of any kind, including mud and/or jello"

IF this is for me (note the word "IF"), I'm not a dude but I do have a sense of humor!

However angry AngelicaS is against Sarah... she is right. Yes, Sarah, a lot of illegals pay taxes, however, they also file returns based on such taxes paid in, and get the majority of what they pay back out via returns. They also file them against VALID social security numbers (such as mine) and cause hundreds of thousands of people to be audited due to multiple tax returns filed.

Same illegal who hijacked my SSNs (while be it they did nothing with my credit history) caused a DHS background check to show up on my background.

There is no doubt that illegals are a huge drain on the US economy, and have been for years. Millions (probably billions) are written off on public hospital books, which in turn, increases the costs the hospitals have to charge to those with insurance or means to pay our bills.

I truly feel sorry for this young lady in the article. But law is law. Illegal immigrants are called illegal for a reason. Now should this girl's family choose to adopt her as well as pay her medical costs now, I'm all for her staying. Else if she has family in her country of origin, she should be returned to them.

For all those ranting about illegal immigrants---it is NOT ILLEGAL to come to the U.S. It is NOT illegal to be a non-resident alien. All you have to do is go to the Internal Revenue Service website and check Publication 519 for explanation of status and its requirements and rules for reporting income and look at form 1040-NR. Cheez, people. You act like every single person who comes here is a crook!!

Mike and Robbopolubop -

Just because you file taxes, doesn't mean you pay taxes.

They file to get money back from the Gov't.

Remember, they are still typically low income. And with our redistribution scheme, they get money back when they file taxes.

Angelica's 1.58 post (yeah, I don't know why I kept reading their posts, kinda devolving into a catfight...) :

Washington Post September 2^nd 2011

Undocumented workers got billions from IRS in tax credits, audit finds

By Lisa Rein

The Internal Revenue Service allowed undocumented workers to collect $4.2 billion in refundable tax credits last year, a new audit says, almost quadruple the sum five years ago.

Although undocumented workers are not eligible for federal benefits, the report released Thursday by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration concludes that federal law is ambiguous on whether these workers qualify for a tax break based on earned income called the additional child tax credit.

Taxpayers can claim this credit to reduce what they owe in taxes, often getting refunds from the government. The vagueness of federal law may have contributed to the $4.2 billion in credits, the report said.

The IRS said it lacks the authority to disallow the claims.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, On Friday announced plans to examine the refunds.

“The disconcerting findings in this report demand immediate attention and action from Congress and the Obama Administration,” Hatch said in a statement.. “With our debt standing at over $14.5 trillion and
counting, it’s outrageous that the IRS is handing out refundable tax credits...to those who aren’t even eligible to work in this country.”

Wage earners who do not have Social Security numbers and are not authorized to work in the United States can use what the IRS calls individual taxpayer identification numbers. Often these result in
fraudulent claims on tax returns, auditors found.

Their data showed that 72 percent of returns filed with taxpayer identification numbers claimed the child tax credit.

The audit recommended that the IRS seek clarification on the law and check the immigration status of filers with taxpayer indentification numbers.

IRS officials, in response to a draft of the report, agreed to consult with the Treasury Department on the law. But they said they have no legal authority to demand that filers prove their legal status when the
tax agency processes returns.

Changes to tax law are partly to blame for the explosion in refunds for additional child tax credits in recent years, auditors found. Before 2001, filers needed to have three or more children to qualify — and to
owe more Social Security taxes than earned income credits.

But those requirements have been eliminated and the allowable refund for each child doubled. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 also made the refund easier to get, auditors found.

As for how much it costs to deport them, it costs ZERO. Check out Alabama and Arizona - the illegals are leaving by the thousands, on their own dime.

We simply need to make it a felony to employ, transport, or harbor illegal aliens. No jobs, no benefits, no illegals.

U,

It was mostly for Jean, but is applicaple to any and all "creepy internets persons". I shouldn't be so gender specific, lol.

Sarah,

It's true that illegal immigrants pay taxes and there should be an exception to the rule regarding this young lady who lost her entire family. Hopefully they speed up the process to legalize her. But why do you get upset at those who oppose illegal entry into this country? It sounds as though you condone it. Breaking a law is breaking a law. If anything the process should be made so that people do not have to wait so long to become legal. But until this process changes they should follow procedure like many have already.

I do feel for this young lady, she is human and I do have compassion for her and am truely so sorry for her tragic loss. What I would love to know is how in the heck did this entire family attend our public school system, run a church etc. ? This is America, you can only hide from the government, taxes and such if you are illegal. Everyone else is up a creek!!!! I do not feel like the hospital, doctors, etc should do anything for free for her, her family has lived in the country with not paying into the government or anything else this entire time. The free ride MUST stop with her. If she wants to remain in this country, she should 1st be deported BACK to Brazil and apply like anyone else who wants to be here legally. Do not allow her to mooch off of the American government (ALL AMERICANS) who pay into our country. Do not allow her to be adopted do not allow her her to stay with relatives, she has no visa. Send her back, we can no longer feel sorry for these people. They did not feel sorry for the financial drain they put on this country by being here illegally. Please do not try to tell me that this girl did not know she was here illegally, parents talk to their kids she knew believe me she knew. Stop this now, today is the new day to be the New America. Obama stand up for your country, send her back, do something right for a change start that change you kept preaching during your campaign. This not meant to offend anyone, but this is America and we should start speaking our minds and Stop being afraid to do so. The President lives in OUR WHITE HOUSE remember we are the deciders isn't that why we have elections?

"It was mostly for Jean"

lol

I missed Jean's post the first time.

Glad I put the word "if" there.

lol

Wait a minute, doesn't the spelling of "Jean" make it a girls name? If the poster is a guy, wouldn't it be "Gene"? Just asking..........

Ann,

I don't get upset at their opposition. I get upset at flagrantly distorting the truth and demonizing other human beings. It's a matter of humanity and equality. When the law itself is wrong, how can I, as a person who respects humanity and equality, watch those who are struggling under an unjust system be demonized. Specifically, when that demonization is done under false pretenses.

Rightous outrage and anger at an unfair system is the first step to fixing that system. I have no idea how God awful it must be to be born into abject poverty in Mexico. Who am I, to then insult and degrade those who try to improve their lives. Illegal immigration doesn't hurt me. What hurts me is the piss poor treatment I see bestowed on fellow human beings.

If anything the process should be made so that people do not have to wait so long to become legal

I absolutely agree, but how will we ever focus on that if we're too busy screaming "Deport them!!!"

Illegal, isn't necesarrily bad or immoral. It was illegal for Rosa Parks to remain in her seat on that bus. It was illegal for blacks and whites to marry. If no one ever challenges unjust laws, no progress will ever be made, and we can not challange unjust laws if we're all running around in a state of paranoia, blaming the easiest target.

There should be no process, illegal is illegal. What's so difficult to understand? What next, are people going to start arguing with me if I say the sky is blue? The exceptions & double-standards in this country are astonishingly unbelievable. Might as well just get rid of laws all together if we're not going to follow them.

U,

Who the hell knows, lol. Maybe he/she is French, in which case... PROVE YOU'RE HERE LEGALLY (if you are here) FRENCHIE!!!

Let's just keep it not creepy, folks. If you all are interested in jello wrestling, you'll have to visit, "Moronic, Liberal, Godless, Evil, Sarah... After Dark. Com".

But it doesn't matter if you feel the law is wrong; it is the law and laws should not be broken.

Illegal, isn't necesarrily bad or immoral.

No, it's just unlawful and any unlawful act is wrong.

It was illegal for Rosa Parks to remain in her seat on that bus. It was illegal for blacks and whites to marry. If no one ever challenges unjust laws, no progress will ever be made, and we can not challange unjust laws if we're all running around in a state of paranoia, blaming the easiest target.

The problem with these arguments is Rosa Parks and Blacks were legal citizens just as the whites were and therefore DESERVED equal treatment and should have been afforded the same rights and decency afforded to white citizens of the same country. Demanding equal rights is not unlawful. This same argument do not apply to illegal immigrants though they should be treated with some type of humanity.

Sarah...I'm going out on a limb here, but looking at your photo you appear to be of hispanic descent? If so, couldn't your argument and/or passion towards the topic be fueled by bias?

I live in Arizona and the financial strain on our state due to illegal immigration is mind-boggling. I'm all for anyone who wants to reside in this great country of ours in order to better themselves and their situation, as long as they utilize the legal established path in doing so. Here in Arizona the culture is such that we can't even communicate with 1/5 of the population due to language barriers. The school systems have deteriorated due to current policies that hold up the progress of the many because of the few who have troubles learning the language. I could go on and on, but I wouldn't be stating anything that hasn't already been stated numerous times.

Immigration is a debate that is viewed differently based on people's bias and the level of which illegal immigration has affected them. I'm in law enforcement, so I see firsthand the negative effects. I also have school-aged children, so I see the effects there also. I've had school officials tell me the reason my children's school fees keep rising is due to lack of tax funding due to immigration issues. Our prison system here in Arizona is 33% illegal hispanics, of which the taxpayer is footing the bill for their incarceration. Again, I could go on and on, but my experiences with the issues are different than yours.

This story is a tragic event, one that unfortunately could have been prevented had our government anforced its current laws long ago and deported. My heart goes out to this young lady, but if we make exceptions for the law then where do we draw the line? Personally, I hope she's adopted and is allowed to stay in the United States, provided that the adopting family is not going to receive public assistance in her support.

I guess it's ok to be here as an illegal as long as your not for Mexico.

She's here illegally and should be deported and Brazil charged for her medical care.

And if you want sympathy, you will find it in the dictionary between sh*t and syphilis.

As stated above, if her family stayed in Brazil, they wouldn't of died in a car crash in Florida.

"Let's just keep it not creepy, folks. If you all are interested in jello wrestling"

It was just a joke, Honey. Listen to The Eagles and: "Take it eas........y! Take it eas....y. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy."

Ann,

In Plyler v Dough, SOTUS awarded Constitutional protections to all people, regardless of immigration status. In addition to that, the Constitution says "persons" not "citizens". So, the law says that yes, they do deserve equal protection, and according to you, if the law says that, than that has to be correct, right?

I'm still waiting for someone to bring up a growing problem with illegals "borrowing" SSNs....it's not a victimless crime: it seems that more and more the illegals who are "filing their taxes" are doing to against these SSNs and sometimes receiving refunds: then when the actual legal citizen files his or her taxes the IRS refuses them. Or, worse, the income for the illegal counts against the SSN, and when the American citizen who is using that SSN legally files his taxes he is denied refunds that are due him or even made to pay more as the illegal's income is now attributed to him. No, I'm not going to waste my time hunting down and posting something you can all Google for yourselves, but please do so and you will find this problem described out there, complete with many case histories.

Another aspect to the illegal immigrant problem is health care. My own experience is not atypical. The emergency room in the small hospital in the town where I live was not very active just 7-8 years ago. You could go in their pretty much any night of the week and there might be one or two more people there. Then about 6 years ago we had a large influx of illegal Mexicans and Guatamalans (for the most part) move into the area. I went into the ER last year with a serious injury, and it took over three hours to be seen: the ER was packed and is almost every night now. If you want a conversation in that room you must speak Spanish: the nurses in the ER confirmed that the majority of those they see now are illegal and rarely pay anything for the care they receive. It has become a real problem in our town and according to what I read it is elsewhere too.

Vyper,

I did, post 1.56.

Sally, you killed this thread. Epic fail!

(Don't ban me; It's just a joke.)

Bugger,

I'm half Sicilian, which is probably what you see as Hispanic, and half Polish. It's interesting that you say that though, because that would be enough to force me to prove I'm here legally if stopped for speeding in Alabama. Hmmm? I've stated my case, both with concrete law and stats, and my moral opinion.

I know that we have a problem, but let's actually fix it, not demonize or lie. Let's go to the heart of it, not toss out the rights of humans, in a desperate attempt to feed our egos.

All illegals need to be picked up and deported. All of them. ICE, do your job.

Frank Omia

It's so funny when people go all, "oh deport illegals, they shouldn't be here, this is a country with laws". Usonians have a VERY short memory. What's your surname?

===========

..............Very disengenuous:

1. Many people's ancestors came here before there were immigrations laws, at a time when the country was expanding with vast amount of resources to be exploited and labor was in high demand. That has changed, this is not the same country as it was 110 years ago, we now have 13 million real Americans who can't find jobs, and it should be our government's priority to address that first, and not take care of some other country's citizens.

2. Many people who came later, like my grandparents, applied and did so legally, so your surname reference is not relevant, sorry.

I think the bottom line here is, that if a legal citizen of the United States commited tax fraud, skipped out on hospital bills, stole someone's identity and/or social security number, or scammed welfare, he/she would be in jail or prison right now. So, how is it that a person here illegally, committing all of these illegal acts, is somehow exempt from punishment?

I just attended a conference on sustainable urban development in Santiago, Chile, and I flew on Air Canada to get to and from there from Denver.

Frank Omia is quite right when he talks about those Americans who are blinded by a belief that we Americans are somehow superior to the citizens or governments of any other nation.

My experience on Air Canada flying coach was as stellar a performance professional service-wise as I have experienced on any US airline since before airline deregulation, and the coach fare on Air Canada was more than 20% less than on any US competitor. Their coach seats have slightly more room than do our seats, the first checked bag is free on international flights, they serve alcoholic beverages free in coach on international flights, and there were two hot meal services on both flights to and from Santiago, plus duty-free shopping right from my seat, and Air Canada has an extensive free movie library and individual Cable-TV right at coach seats for free too.

At Toronto's Pearson Airport, US citizens who are transferring from or to a US flight to an international flight are even given Canadian and US Customs priority over Canadian citizens, and waiting times are minimal. Moving sidewalks including unique higher-tech "express" moving sidewalks which travel as fast as someone running speed travelers to and from their boarding gates, baggage claim, and Customs clearance. On my return I cleared US Customs at Toronto so that upon my arrival back at DIA I headed straight for baggage claim. Better yet, Air Canada flies to Europe too.

Yes, as I expected, large areas of Chile that I visited were not quite as well-off as large areas of the US are, but the difference is marginal, and moreover, the Chilean economy is experiencing substantial GDP growth. Santiago and Valparaiso are modern cities with modern public transportation systems, and I have never seen an American city with multiple modern urban freeway tunnels of up to 7 miles in length just to bypass surface congestion. Boston's Big Dig project is about the only project that I can think of that even comes close.

Valparaiso, a large city of 800K population built on large hills adjacent to the Pacific Ocean, operates a subway system, an electric trolley-bus system, numerous diesel-powered bus routes, and even operates 16 different incline railroads to move people vertically. A modern tollway sporting long tunnels through a couple of mountain ranges ties Valparaiso to the capital too. Moreover, the Chilean people are considerable friendlier than has been the case across the majority of the US over the last several decades, and there is considerably less street crime too.

In Canada if you get hurt in a crash on the freeway, they rush you off to one of their hospitals, fix you up, and then shake your hand and wave goodbye, sidestepping the increasingly unique American process of seeing just how much money that they can deprive you of first. Here in the US my own medical insurance increased by more than 500% between 2000 and 2008, as the premiums tripled while first copays and then an annual deductible were added. Since 2009, my premiums are only up 9%, so I will give credit where credit is due too. Here in the US our college students are getting reamed by college costs that are wildly out-of-control, also up by 500%, and in Chile the government there is moving toward expanding access to low-cost higher education as well as possibly forgiving a portion of high student loan debt.

The only thing that the US seems to stand far and above other nations on is in the ability to play world policeman. Why aren't you conservatives all up in arms over our continuing to waste several trillion dollars per year on national defense, keeping 1000 foreign military bases open, continually throwing good money after bad at our alleged allies worldwide, and operating by far the world's largest naval and air forces, while the percentage of US children in poverty has steadily risen to 3rd-world standards? Yes, 30% of American children now live in poverty while the top 10% of us have seen our incomes increase by 400% above the inflation rate just since 1980. On the other hand, the bottom 70% of us, clearly a majority, have seen our spending power fall by 40% since 1980 too. How much longer do you proponents of the robber baron class figure you can get away with stealing the wealth of the vast majority of Americans away from them?

I hate to have to say this, but the issue of what services that we have to provide to illegals, whether economic or political refugees, or even combined with American citizens in need, is a drop in the bucket compared to the wastefulness of defense spending and military contracting in continually trying to dominate the world. We could easily defend our own hemisphere for a small fraction of what we waste now, freeing at least a trillion dollars annually to expand our civilian economy with. And, as I recall, the conservative robber baron class here at home greatly enjoys and supports our hosting a large illegal worker population in order to help keep American wages down on the farm too, which means that your leadership is at least as guilty in allowing huge illegal hordes to flood into the US as is any political leader, if not more so.

Angelica: Do you know Roy Wilson? I just had to ask because you and him write in a virtually identical manner, a manner obviously quite experienced in the Karl Rove method of attempting to discredit anyone other than conservative. As I recall, America is a country where we attempt to provide governance from a middle ground by popular vote rather than one from an extremist position, whether that position is far left or far right, and as I also recall, in 2008 your side lost by a 60-40 margin. I am liberal, and I can easily say that President Obama is much more centrist than I would like.

What is going to happen when your side loses again in 2012? Secession and civil war? Just remember that there are an awful lot of Americans who do not support a far-right, extreme moralist, exclusionary, and rich makes right vision for our joint future too, and that we all have the right to believe what we want to believe. Attacking other Americans for their beliefs and trying to demonize anyone with a different belief I strongly feel is counter-productive at best, and could end up quite dangerous as well.

"this is not the same country as it was 110 years ago"

It's not even the same country it was 50 years ago. No, that one is not a joke; I'm actually agreeing with you. Not only can the children not play outside (without an adult watching them every single second) but they also have to carry cell phones to walk 4 blocks to school because some gang-bangers MIGHT decide to beat them up & steal their (shoes, coat, whatever-maybe even the phone itself).

Sad, I know.

Thanks for your response Sarah. I agree with your last post to an extent. I agree that the problem definitely needs to be fixed, however, until it is they (illegal residents) continue to reside here at the expense of the United States citizen. I have no problem paying my taxes, but I do have a problem with my tax dollars financing those who aren't here legally.

You mentioned "human rights", but that has absolutely nothing to do with the granting of citizenship to any country, and IMO isn't a valid point to this discussion since they aren't being mistreated. Quite the contrary, they've been treated pretty darned well for not being citizens.

To many issues to be resolved. Too much money being spent

It really is depressing to see what qualifies as a debate on the 'merits' these days.

As for the American girl of 15, who has lived in this country as long as she can remember, thank God that at least ONE of the 10.8 million unauthorized Americans will receive 'justice' in the form of 'no opression'.

That girl has never done anything wrong in her life, and people posting here act like she is the Devil incarnate.

WHO is it that spreads hatred and intolerance? Oh, yeah. That would be the Devil.

Even the comments grudgingly not calling for the exile of an American teenager to a country she knows nothing about come with insults and lies like "so I don't have pay her medical bills from now on."

The TRUTH is that unauthorized immigrants are the LEAST likely segment of American society to seek medical treatment, the LEAST likely to use public resources for medical treatment, the MOST likely to PAY out of their own pockets for the medical services they do receive, and the LEAST likely to skip out on payment of a medical bill. That per the Rand Corporation, which is the only entity to conduct a scientific study of the matter.

commonsense,

U R late, dawg. Where U been?

Sarah,

The case you're referring to has to do with Texas and education. But nonetheless, I found the following interesting. The entire case is interesting.

Our conclusion that the illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases may claim the benefit of the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of equal protection only begins the inquiry. The more difficult question is whether the Equal Protection Clause has been violated by the refusal of the State of Texas to reimburse local school boards for the education of children who cannot demonstrate that their presence within the [p216] United States is lawful, or by the imposition by those school boards of the burden of tuition on those children. It is to this question that we now turn.

III

The Equal Protection Clause directs that "all persons similarly circumstanced shall be treated alike." F. S. Royster Guano Co. v. Virginia, 253 U.S. 412, 415 (1920). But so too, "[t]he Constitution does not require things which are different in fact or opinion to be treated in law as though they were the same." Tigner v. Texas, 310 U.S. 141, 147 (1940). The initial discretion to determine what is "different" and what is "the same" resides in the legislatures of the States. A legislature must have substantial latitude to establish classifications that roughly approximate the nature of the problem perceived, that accommodate competing concerns both public and private, and that account for limitations on the practical ability of the State to remedy every ill. In applying the Equal Protection Clause to most forms of state action, we thus seek only the assurance that the classification at issue bears some fair relationship to a legitimate public purpose.

Sarah, God bless you for posting the truth.

So much rhetoric on this subject, so little of it factual.

Angelica: ...you ... write in a virtually identical manner, a manner obviously quite experienced ....

A lot of the talking points against immigrants come from organizations founded by Nazi-admirer John Tanton, who has written glowingly of the "genetics" policies of the Third Reich and openly desires the same thing for the United States. Tanton is the founder of the ironically named anti-immigration organization FAIR, NumbersUSA, and the Center for Immigration Studies among others. Angelica used to quote from those organizations, but usually she resorts to newspaper editorials and unsubstantiated quotes from people who are not experts on immigration.

Lamar Smith, Lou Dobbs, Glen Beck, and others use the same Nazi-inspired sources.

Well, I'm glad to see that the Immigration Service personnel are using their heads and utilizing the little used (or understood) humanitarian reasons. Since this little girl has lost everything, I have no doubt she will be adopted by US citizens and be able to be a US Citizen.

For a child to lose their entire family is just tragic.

Eugenics was used to justify slavery in the U.S. and Nazi Germany’s crimes against Jews, and Tanton recognized that the American public had come to reject pseudo-scientific arguments that certain racial or ethnic groups were inferior to others.

To hide his promotion of eugenics, Tanton decided to use the word “genetics” instead of “eugenics,” and to focus on plant life as a gateway topic to promote his belief in inherent biological IQ differences. These racialized arguments are still popular in many of today’s white nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations.

In a letter to Dr. Robert K. Graham of the Foundation for the Advancement of Man, Tanton said the project would emphasize:

“mankind’s use of eugenic principles on plants and the lower animals as a way to condition the public to the idea of genetic manipulation, and raise the question of its application to the human race. In fact, we report on ways it is currently being done, but under the term genetics rather than eugenics.”

http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2010/03/26/tanton-memo-of-the-month-the-promotion-of-eugenics/

To many issues to be resolved.

No there aren't. Americans of days gone by had the courage to tackle every problem they were presented with, and, in the end, the character to do so fairly. It took a long time to end slavery, a longer time to extend civil rights to almost all Americans (we're still working on it).

Too much money being spent

There's WAY too much money being spent on pandering to bigotry and oppression. We need to SCRAP our ridiculous 1986 immigration rules that were a complete FAILURE since day 1, and start over with something that is fair, just, and serve America's own national self-ointerests, instead of the interests of bigots and would-be social engineers.

CS, Y U being mean & ignoring meh? Hey~

this is not the same country as it was 110 years ago

Funny, that's the same argument that bigots used in the 1920s to keep the Italians, Eastern Europeans, Russians, and Jews from polluting the gene pool.

they ([expletive] residents) continue to reside here at the expense of the United States citizen.

There is absolutely no evidence of that. Immigrants buy their own food, they pay their own rent or buy their own houses. They do not receive welfare, tehy are not on the public dole.

They pay in an excess of $8 BILLION per year in Social Security taxes alone, even though they will never receive one penny in benefits.

In the State of Texas, the Office of the Comptroller has determined that unauthorized immigrants pay in a NET SURPLUS of over $420 million dollars per year in taxes OVER AND ABOVE the cost of services they receive and add $17.7 BILLION per year to the state Gross Domestic Product.

Harold of the rocks and Sarah should get a room!

commonsense, you apparantly haven't researched the situation here in Arizona; there's plenty of supporting documentation as to the negative effects here in Arizona...which probably has a lot to do with our Governor shaking that finger President Obama. As I stated earlier, views on the topic will vary depending on the effects it has had on each individual. As a law enforcement officer, half my calls are regarding illegal residents. Taking that one step further, half the gang population in Arizona is illegal residents. And even more step further, over 85% of drug trafficking through our state is conducted by illegal immigrants. This state puts out statistics for crimes committed by illegal immigrants...when bored feel free to review them. I could go on and on, but you're point of view is already set and it's evident I've had more negative contact with illegal immigrants than you, thus my opinion is as such. Hopefully one way or another our leaders will make up their minds on what to do to correct the issue.

It's easy to go out and find out for one's self what is going on: illegal immigration is one of many factors that are taking a huge toll on the American economy.

That's not true at all.

In fact the OPPOSITE is true.

Immigrants keep the economy robust and growing. Raiding factories, requiring the BIG, INTRUSIVE, federal government to approve all hiring decisions, passing laws making WORK a CRIME, THOSE things are detrimental to the American economy.

But immigrants working hard? That GROWS the American economy. And that CREATES jobs for native born Americans.

All of this is easy enough to learn, if you have a decent mind, a decent education, and the strength of character to actually DO THE RESEARCH.

Hello, UDS!

if a legal citizen of the United States commited tax fraud, skipped out on hospital bills, stole someone's identity and/or social security number, or scammed welfare, he/she would be in jail or prison right now.

So, how is it that a person here illegally, committing all of these illegal acts, is somehow exempt from punishment?

Judge, jury, and executioner?

First off, overstaying a visa is a civil misdemeanor, like using bad words in public in my home town. So is crossing a border without inspection. In all three cases, no one gets hurt, except those whose are offended by bad language.

I have no problem with someone committing tax fraud (like the Romney's) benig required to pay taxes, with the imposition of punitive fines and even jail time in egregious cases. But first there needs to be a trial. Your insiuation that unauthorized immigrants don't pay taxes is not true. Your demand that 10.8 million people be punished just because you have swallowed some mean-spirited propaganda is unjust, even if there are a few bad actors. Here's an idea, why not punish the tax evaders, whether they are native born or immigrants, and stop punishing all immigrants because of the PRETENSE that all immigrants arte tax dodgers like Mitt Romney? The Office of the Comptroller for the State of Texas and the IRS say you are wrong.

Skipping hospital bills? That would be US citizens almost exclusively, according to the Rand Corporation. Again, you are wrong.

Stolen identity? You're mainly looking at US citizens. Immigrants use FAKE Social Security numbers (it's a tip off if you use a number that belongs to someone ELSE) or a Taxpayer ID number. So, again, you are WRONG.

Welfare? Immigrants don't get welfare. And citizens don't go to jair for receiving welfare.

In my opinion, the far BIGGER crime is YOU stealing MY tax dollars to pay for expensive programs that persecute brown-skinned people just to satisfy your own ill-informed misconceptions when there are REAL problems that need to be solved.

As for the 15-year old American girl, she upholds the values this country was founded on to a much greater degree than the people fanning the flames of fear and hatred with falsehoods.

And I am proud to call her "my fellow American".

Commonsense,"they are not on the public dole"? Are you kidding? You need to strenghthen your own character on the truth of the matter or change your Vine name to," I'm a Liberal so don't talk to me". At least that way everyone would know where you're coming from. There's a huge clinic in my town that advertises free state health care for expecting women married or not, in the brochure it states that you cannot be questioned about your immigration status and to tell your friends. It includes prenatal and ped care for the new bouncing U.S. citizen, plus formula, disposable diapers (but no garbage stickers so good luck with that),so don't tell me they are paying their own way!

As I stated earlier, views on the topic will vary depending on the effects it has had on each individual. As a law enforcement officer, half my calls are regarding illegal residents. Taking that one step further, half the gang population in Arizona is illegal residents. And even more step further, over 85% of drug trafficking through our state is conducted by illegal immigrants.

Buggerer, FACTS most emphatically do NOT change depending on the individual. You belittle my views not because things are "different" here or there, but because you are blind to the truth, since the FACTS do not support your personal prejudices.

To be very blunt, I have a hard time believing that you are a law enforcment officer given what you cite as 'statistics'.

I have no personal knowledge of your 'calls' and therefore cannot comment, other than to express my skepticism.

But your claim that half the gang population of Arizona consists of unauthorized immigrants is patently false. Every study ever done shows unauthorized immigrants to be, in hte aggregate, a very law abiding group, to the extent the US citizens commit felony crimes at a rate roughly 5 times that of unauthorized immigrants. Mexicans and Salvadorans are even more law-abiding.

And 85% of drug trafficking in Arizona is most certainly NOT done by immigrants. The drug trafficking is done by drug cartels (not immigrants), US citizens, and American drug addicts.

Study after study has shown that border areas are among the safest in the US, and that crime rates have dropped wherever immigration increases.

Basically, you are making all this nonsense up. You have no sources that you can cite.

And if you want to weaken the drug smugglers, make immigration LEGAL and go after the addicts.

Sarah- You mention that millions of these illegal aliens pay taxes. How exactly do they do that if they don't have social security cards? Sales taxes are obvious, you buy something, you pay the tax. Payroll tax cannot be paid unless there is a Social Security account to apply the tax to and a person cannot get a Social Security card without being a legal citizen. If they have a fake card, that's another crime that they are committing.

Illegal aliens are a huge burden on the taxpayer and they need to be sent home, NOW! Their presence is a crime, that's what illegal means.

fenderbluesjr. Why did you have to disrespect commonsense like that? Is it because you can't rely on the strength of your position? That's the first thing I infer when I read personal attacks on another's opinion.

Prove that the "huge clinic" that you cited is funded with Federal Tax dollars.

The statement that "illegal immigrants are not on the public dole" was a direct response to someone who thought illegal immigrants get food stamps and welfare, which they do not. It is a correct statement in the context that it was written. You seemingly want to apply that statement to a private clinic, which is far different than food stamps, welfare, and unemployment benefits. And then you disrespected another person on this forum who is respectful to all others (commonsense),

There's a huge clinic in my town that advertises free state health care for expecting women married or not, in the brochure it states that you cannot be questioned about your immigration status and to tell your friends. It includes prenatal and ped care for the new bouncing U.S. citizen, plus formula, disposable diapers

Nice. You should be proud. Babies are God's gift to the world.

so don't tell me they are paying their own way!

What makes you think those people are all immigrants? The clinic doesn't ask, so there's no way in the world for YOU to know.

Rather than extrapolating from an advertisement you've seen, it is better to rely on scientific studies done by reputable organizations. For health care studies, the Rand Corporation study is the best I've seen. (click on link provided below)

RAND Study Shows Relatively Little Public Money Spent Providing Health Care to Undocumented Immigrants http://www.rand.org/news/press/2006/11/14.html

We have enough people here already. We do not need any more legal or illegal immigrants.

We have more immigrants than any other country in the world ALREADY.

It's time to end immigration altogether. More people simply divides the resources we have left. There is no right to immigrate to the US. They need to stay in their own country and make that place better.

There is no open land to "settle". And we don't need more workers, we need more jobs.

Sarah- You mention that millions of these [expletive] aliens pay taxes. How exactly do they do that if they don't have social security cards?

Sarah reported truthfully (as always).

First, the IRS will issue a taxpayer ID number to anyone who wants one (and only a fool would complain about people paying taxes). Second, many unauthorized immigrants use fake social security numbers. Third, you relly don't need a CARD. A Social Security number is good enough. They all have nine digits. Most income taxes are paid through automatic payroll deductions. No matter what color your hair is.

They don't pay income taxes. Like nearly half of the US, they pay no income taxes OR actually get money back that they did not put in.

Second, many unauthorized immigrants use fake social security numbers.

And how did they get those?

commonsense,

Not that I have anything to prove to you, but I have worked 18 years for DPS (highway patrol) here in Arizona, the last 5 of which I've worked GIITEM (gangs). As much as it pains you to admit, I probably have a better insight regarding my posts than you. My "prejudices" are based on my experiences, although they are also supported by the crime statistics put out by every Arizona law enforcement agency quarterly. You profess to know so much...I'm truly amazed that you haven't taken your knowledge of every single topic, and subsequent answer you appear to have for each issue, and hit the roads looking for support for a congressional bid. The facts are there, you're just too stubborn to research.

Illegals are NOT law biding citizens in that the very fact that're here is against the law. However, I will state that a large majority of the cartel "mules" in fact, stay in Arizona or southern California upon delivering their packages. That's why the cartels use those immigrating; they're already coming here. The cartel supplies the muscle; it's the simple folk who do the dirty work. The cartels flip them some money so they have something to start their new life. That can also be verified through documents, court proceedings, investigations, etc., but once again you're only interested in your liberal point of view. As I've stated earlier, I can only speak of my experiences, and I understand that my experiences will be vastly different than those who live in Minnesota or Iowa, but from a law enforcement point of view, within the past 5 years 70% of officer fatalities in Arizona have been at the hands of illegals. (That also can be verified if you're willing to research, although I'm sure you'll find a reason to discredit it; there must be some sort of conspiracy behine it.)

Now, before you go making remarks about "prejudices" again, my wife is hispanic and I have children with her, making them hispanic. You can doubt whatever you want to regarding my posts; that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to change your mind at all, just open your eyes to a different perspective based on someone who deals with a different side of illegal immigration. My profession disseminates tons of reports regarding crime, so feel free to research anytime you have spare time; perhaps you'll realize that others actually have some valid, factual-based points.

Ok Harold so now you are commonsense's attorney. Read the minutes councelor, commonsense already stated that illegals were not on welfare. Then went on to say that," they are not on the public dole". That's when I called common out harry and while I'm at it,you too. Public dole, does it matter if it's state or federal? It's public dole! Webster's defines dole..a charitable distribution. So, commonsense is wrong and so are you for jumping to common's defense. The clinic is VNA- Visiting Nurse's Association of Fox Valley,their bilingual brochure assured no citizenship inquiry? I've gone to my Dr. my whole life and was never asked for my papers. It's like a used car lot that advertises,"we buy cars with or without titles",then claim that can't understand how they ended up with a lot full of stolen cars? When the baby is born it collects social security. In Illinois those kids recieve free healthcare,formula,diapers,school vouchers for breakfast and lunch,my kids do not. So it isn't a stretch of the imagination to conclude that illegal immigrants can recieve benefits. Face it you two, if you didn't have to provide for your kids health care, food and tuition wouldn't you be ahead of the game? I live in the 2nd largest city in Il, we are 45% hispanic, my hood is at least 85% Mexican and I couldn't be any happier being here. Living here doesn't make me an honorary Mexican but never discount the fact that I don't know what's going on.

Fender... you didn't provide any evidence that the VNA clinic receives Federal or State tax dollars. All I have is your word, tainted by your bias, that it's taxpayer funded.

As for the kids, sorry, they're not illegal, they are American citizens who qualify for that Social Security. It's a valid argument to say that isn't fair. It's an invalid argument to say they're illegals getting public "dole". If you want to join the fight to change the laws so it's no longer attractive to come here to make anchor babies, I'll join you. But that's a HUGE uphill battle, and until it's won, there is a difference between a legal born citizen and their illegal parents.

Sarah,

Ahh again we cross paths, although I don't want to get into the mud slinging that you and Angelica are into, I will be the first to stand up and say.... You are a bully and she was entitled to her "truth" as much as you are.

Because we don't see eye to eye, does NOT make us wrong people. You know what I am talking about... all that name slinging you sent me a few months back.....you need to slow your roll and be more kind, as for the HUMAN BEING remarks you make, you would think you were more kind in passing judgement on people...by the way.. you are HUMAN too! I absolutley believe you are a bully when people don't agree with you.

As for going to afterdark.com to see the evil you, no need, I can see you here just fine!

She's fifteen and just lost her entire family. "Pay her own way?" Oh, man. The compassion of the right wing astounds me. I am embarrassed to acknowledge that we live in the same universe.

mklnd

She's fifteen and just lost her entire family. "Pay her own way?" Oh, man. The compassion of the right wing astounds me. I am embarrassed to acknowledge that we live in the same universe.

You assume he is right wing, he very well could be a liberal democrat that is tired of paying for Illegal Aliens.

I'm embarrassed to acknowledge that we allow our government to get away with selective enforcement.

Trust me. He's right wing.

She has relatives that live in the US. So, why not officially adopt her and as Mike said get her listed in our system. No one thinks she will financially right now take care of herself, but someday she should.

mklnd, how foolish that you would make the assumption someone is right-wing based on the fact that they said she should pay her own way? I have had to pay my own way and I don't think that's wrong. I am not right-wing, nor am I left-wing. I make my political decisions based on the merit or lack there-of of the individual running for office. Lately, none of them have merit so voting is pointless when all you get are @!$%#s. Even if she is put into the "system" she will likely qualify for medicaid which will be you paying for her medical bills anyway. I just hope she gets better, she will never get over losing her family.

I agree FWalsh--- I have been labeled "left wing" all my voting life. However, it is unacceptable that Amerians are being forced to pay for ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS!

It's really a false notition perpetuated by the media that only the far right wing demands enforcement of our immigration laws. Americans of all political parties (including Democrats like me), also are FED UP WITH THE FAILURE TO ENFORCE OUR LAWS! NOW, this is yet another burden forced upon the American taxpayers as a result of the failure to enforce our immigration laws!!!

His user name is "Obama Lies", good indication that he leans toward the right.

Maybe it has something to do with his screen name, and with his comment about Obama's drunk uncle.

You too but hole!

Gotta love people like this. The kicker would be if "Obama Lies" is pro-life.

his name is obama lies people.....im pretty sure hes not democrat.....

Okay, "Obama Lies" nutcase. Change the subject. What does President Obama's uncle have to do with anything? Another crazy Conservative...

I think its the timing that is important here. If her family adopts her then so be it. If not, we should probably have the humanity to give her time to greive before sending her back to Brazil. As far as her making her way, she is a 15 year old kid. It would be pretty heartless for her to not get any help.

F Walsh

mklnd, how foolish that you would make the assumption someone is right-wing based on the fact that they said she should pay her own way?

=========

......I agree with your point, and both sides make the mistake of branding the other party because of a disagreement, I've had it happen to me too many times, and it is agrivating. On the other hand, this individual personally selected the handle "ObamaLies", so it is not unreasonable to suspect a certain degreee of ideological bias here, perhaps this could really be Rep Joe Wilson (R) of SC.

As per the 8 Million illegal tax filers, does anyone have a veriable source to prove this?

Now, maybe we could put this into perspective. I was a tax preparer for HR Block for several years, and had families come to file their taxes; father, mother, 2 or 3 kids, only one spoke english, and notvery well, or brought a relative to interpret for them, these were not easy returns to do. It was not unusual for their total income to be about $19K-$20K, with a total federal tax withholding of less than $400, yet they would walk out with refunds between $4K-$5K. Have you heard of the refundable tax credit? Most credits can reduce your tax to zero, but not below, however the refundable credit can, which results in a negative tax owed, or more easily understood, a refund. The Additional Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit are two such credits, and these families would qualify for them. While I don't envy a famility trying to get by on $20K/yr, this is still an outright giveaway, paid for by US taxpayers. But you can't get this giveaway unless you file, so with this kind of incentive, maybe 8 million filers is not so unbelievable after all. And no, I am NOT making this up, you can go to the IRS website and look at the 1040 and its instructions and see for yourself.

we should probably have the humanity to give her time to greive before sending her back to Brazil

Really? That's your idea of humanity? To take a 15 year old AMERICAN girl, whose entire family was just killed while returning from a church event, and force her to leave the ONLY COUNTRY SHE'S EVER KNOWN and fend for herself amongst complete strangers?

She came here when she was 3. Do you remember a lot about the first 3 years of your life?

For YOUR sake, I hope no one ever subjects you to such a callous humanity as that.

Heartless and cruel.

As per the 8 Million illegal tax filers, does anyone have a veriable source to prove this?

Yes. The IRS.

It's pretty easy to find information elsewhere as well.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/02/17/more_illegal_immigrants_are_rushing_to_file_taxes/

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18077009/ns/business-personal_finance/t/illegal-immigrants-filing-taxes-more-ever/

http://www.ocregister.com/news/tax-191224-immigrants-irs.html

http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

http://www.ocregister.com/news/tax-24746-number-immigrants.html

She's not an American, as you continue to state, commonsense. Should she be granted US citizenship THEN she would be an American, but until such time she's an illegal immigrant. If simply being here made a person an American then we wouldn't be discussing the issue.

Let her stay ? I haven't seen her picture, but she should be BLOND.

• Bias, too much ? ?

"If her parents were Illegals, they should not have been here in the first place."

OK so what - they deserve to die in car wreck?

The sad part is only the the ones that have commited a crime must be deported and there are states like MN that do not enforce the deportation which is sad. My feelings are if you not here legal then you must go.

HillClimber well, you made your point and those who can make decisions made the decision of allowing the illegal to stay. there are always exceptions on any rule, like when presidents pardon their criminals friends, so they don't go to prison. Unfortunately you don't have that much power, but you can write some more it is your right.

There probably was no immigration when your family came here. Bet they would have been illegals.

Deportations are up significantly under the Obama administration over the previous Republican administration, so pick a different issue to be wrong about.

Hillclimber: You are a part of nothing... you don't even get to elect your president (the electoral college does it), so I suggest you kindly that you take your frustrations somewhere else). The president does not work for you, he works for 310 million people that this nation has. And if his decisions don't agree with yours, you will have a chance in November to vote him off. This is the United States of America, not Hilclimber, Inc.

Amen hillclimber!!!!!!! I totally agree!

Ok...kick out all the illegals. Let the crops rot on the ground. Let the roofs go unshingled. We americans don't know where our bread is buttered. Do you folks know how much menial labor they do that americans refuse to do? WE NEED THEM. They should pay taxes and pay for their healthcare, yes, but the bottom line is if they aren't here, the work doesn't get done. Our workers are too F'ING LAZY to do it, so they come here to fill their lazy-ass shoes.

I believe the article said she and her family had been living in the US for 12 years. That means the kid was 3 years old when her PARENTS brought her to the US. It is not her fault she is illeagal, it is her parents fault.

She also has relatives living leagally here in the US and they have agreed to adopt her. Case closed.

Rwalker, this is a regurgitation of "they only do jobs americans don't want to do". So what - laundry didn't get done before illegals were here? Lawns didn't get mowed, crops didn't get picked, garbage wasn't picked up? Before anyone calls me a racist, these and many more like them are the jobs that this argument is talking about. No - these jobs were done - by Americans. Americans who were paid better than the illegals. In short, it's not that they take jobs that Americans won't do, it's that they take lower wages than Americans will take. To make it very, very simple: many employer like hiring illegals because they save money doing it and turning away allows them to get away with it. If the illegals are no longer around to do these jobs, they will be done by Americans who will demand and be paid better. Yes, prices would go up, but what that means is that they've been held down by people who were breaking the law.

Yes they do take those jobs, like the ones that came through our town and 2 of the local roofers laid off their crews so they could pay the illegals less to do the work. You may be suprised how many of those "menial" jobs legal citizens would take if given the opportunity.

And to think, if that poor girl had come from Cuba instead the teapubs would be falling over themselves keeping her in this country, and finding government help. Hell, they would probably FORCE her to stay here even if she didn't want to. It's all about the politics.

Vyper3000...the problem is that the americans won't do the work. Near where I am from in Missouri there was a lady with a pear orchard. Her normal migrant workers mostly didn't show up one year. They all got sent home because they were here illegaly. So, she hired locals to round out the picking crews. She came to check progress, and found most of the whites she had hired lounging out under the pear trees eating pears. She had to fire them because they hadn't worked much at all. She looked for the crew of migrants to give them an earfull, but they weren't to be found. After looking for them for a while she found them at the back of the orchard. They had been working all day because they knew if their truck wasn't full of fruit by the end of the day they wouldn't get paid.

This is the type of entitlement that this country can do without. Too many people don't know how to do a hard day's labor anymore. On the other hand, most of us really haven't had to. Especially the baby boomer generation. This is still no excuse. Bottom line, the fruit has to be picked by someone, and if we aren't going to do it, then the Latinos will.

Joe, if there are legal folks who are willing to do the work, then they should get first choice. Otherwise someone has to do these jobs. I agree that sometimes there are people who are willing to do the work, but for more money. I'm all about hiring Americans, but if the Latinos want to come work, we should put them to work. We need our roads and levy systems overhauled and bulked up. Our entire energy grid needs to be burried. The sewers and water lines in almost every city need to be replaced. There is plenty of work to be done by everyone. What really needs to happen is that the powers that have the money all locked up need to let it start flowing again.

Hillclimber is correct. ALL the politicians swear when they take office to uphold the laws of the United States of America and the Constitution. When they refuse to deport illegals they are ignoring those laws. That is fraud because they still accept their pay for doing their job. They are not doing their job. Politicians work for us and they are not royality. I'm so sick of corrupt politicians who get paid off by big business to keep this illegal work force here in the USA so they can make millions while our economy slides into the toilet. The laws already exist, enforce them.

This girls family thumbed their noses at our laws for 15 years, that's a big enough gift from the Americam taxpayers. How many more people in that congregation are illegal?

And she was not able to say whether the Brazilian government would be able to consider the family's request for financial help to fly the bodies back to Marietta for the funerals, and to Brazil for the burials.

It wasn't the US government that was being asked to pay for flying their bodies back or burials, it was the Brazilian government.

F Walsh--doesn't matter WHICH government the FAMILY is requesting to pay for the bodies being flown back to Marietta--the fact is that the family EITHER considers Marietta to be "HOME" or they want someone else to be stuck with the bill for the burials.

If they truly consider the US 'HOME', they would want the bodies buried HERE, so the daughter has a grave site to visit, as do they.

Then you don't put her in jail ... but that shouldn't elevate her above those going through the process legally. She should be sent back.

Too bad she wasn't aborted that way the right wing hateful people would have battled in her defense. But she is 15 now so therefore, as a living breathing child she doesn't count in their eyes. And, don't even try to tell me that those posting above who wants her deported are not right wing. It is in the poison of their pen.

Mark: Send her where? To a place where she was for only 3 years of her life and which by all means she does not remember? Send her to whom? She's a minor, and her immediate family perished in the crash? Do you think that since they're not US citizens they can be dumped like garbage anywhere and look the other way?

Justiceforall--HMM--evidently there must be relatives back in Marietta--surely otherwise the family HERE would not be trying to send the bodies back?

Marietta is in Georga. I don't think the article says where in Brazil they are from. I am assuming since they were Brazillian nationals, they want to be burried in their own country. Not sure though

If you were 15 and your parents were killed in a crash you would be put into the hands of the state. So we as Americans dump garbage as you put it. Now like she does if you have living relative they could step in and become your legal guardian. The point here is that people are called " illegal immigrants " because they came here without filing to become citizens. People are very found of talking about fairness, but how is it fair to someone, in Africa, Asia, Europe, etc... that will not be allowed the chance to become a citizen, because of illegals already here.

So because people did come here illegally, we have to take them in with open arms, because if you don't your just an uncaring person.

Now we are talking about Law, you either uphold a law or you get ride of it. A law is not something you enforce when ever you feel like, but I do see why people think we should, it is done every day. Celebrities have in many cases been given breaks, that would have landed the rest of us non-celebrities in jail. What ever happened to personal responsibility. To be personally responsible means you look at the big picture, consequences of your actions. Lets say you come here illegally, what could happen to you or your family. Maybe they did think about that and said no matter what happens its better than living where we presently are. In that case the parents would have already though about what would happen to their daughter if they died while she was young. They would have a Will setup that put her relatives as her legal guardian. But as you can see they did not, so maybe they didn't think through their decision to come here illegally.

Just like some people think its fine for a person who can barely take care of themselves have a baby. That's what the government is for. No the government is here to protect our freedoms. Having a spouse or children you can't afford to take care of are not a liberty, that is a personal choice, and they are the ones responsible if bad things happen like they starve, not the rest of American. Now before someone goes off from this comment, I in no way mean that we just sit there and just watch people starve. We all are brothers and sisters in this world. I am willing to help people in need, but if I was to help someone, and all they did was decide to have another kid because I helped them with their first one, they would be mistaken. Each person is personally responsible for their actions.

One of the most important reasons we check people out before we let them come to America is to check the person out is to make sure they are able to get a job and support themselves. Another is to make sure they are not a criminal.

Anyone who wants to come to American is welcome with open arms, we will treat you just like a member of the family, all it takes is you applying to become a citizen.

Hey, Mark, is that what you said about Elian Gonzales? If the girl came from Cuba would you be forcing her to stay here?

Maybe I'll go buy some land and start a business in Mexi.. oh, I can', I'm American Maybe I'll go to University in Saudi.. wait, can't, I'm an American. Could keep going here, but the point is....... we should take a page out of other couintries books when it comes to immigration. The only 'fast and furious' should be the speed at which people get deported. Legal immigration = Good, illegal immigration = Bad.

If the Native Americans would have done that to your ancestors, we wouldn't have to read your damn comments. I know they regret that now, that was really a tragedy.

Really bright Mark. You would dump a 15 year old in a strange to her county alone.

Romilio, virtually every country has been invaded and to the victors went the spoils. Native Americans are the only ones still complaining, enough already, it's done they lost, it would be awesome if we could, for once, be able to think of them with grace and dignity instead of with whining centuries later.

Mark: Send her where? Idiocy is just one of your virtues? The girl was brought to the US when she was 3, for the last 12 years she lived in this country, which one you think is the only country she knows? Did you lose your common sense or it's just that you never had it in first place?

My native country was walked over so many times by so many other caountries on their way to war with the country on the other side I have 8 different nationalities & 2 different races in my background. Time to get over it already. She can probably barely speak portuguese and you want to send an orphan minor child there. Are you insane?

Lonereb--I will lay ODDS this girl DOES speak Portuguese. The record is not so hot on illegals to this country MAKING everyone in the family quit speaking the 'old language' and insisting on ONLY ENGLISH from everyone.

She is an orphan whereEVER she ends up. I would ONLY send her back if she does have close family there. IF, however, she is allowed to remain here, (and then ONLY with LEGALLY documented relatives, NOT other illegals) she has 3 years to finish High School, and then apply for citizenship. That status should NOT allow her to facilitate legalizing other family members. And absolute FLUENCY in English is a MUST.

Fluency in English? LOL! Then you would have to send half the legal population away too!

The laws are clear. It is illegal to employ illegal workers. The problem is that laws are only as good as how well they can or are enforced.

They do better work then the overpaid licensed ones I've found around here.

Not to mention the fact that there are many illegals here vying for citizenship because they want to do the right thing.

Tough issue. I feel very badly for this girl, but I'm also not sure it's fair to expedite her citizenship above others who have been trying for years. I mean, what do you say to those people? Bleeding hearts always pick that one tragic story and conveniently forget that there is a process and why that process matters.

If she is allowed to stay, then she needs to get her papers. She will be 18 in three years and, at that point, she needs to pay taxes like everyone else.

Damn, right. She broke the law when she was 3 years old. She is a criminal. They should lock her up in prison immediately, then deport her the first chance they get. Doesn't matter if she has no relatives in Brazil, doesn't matter if she doesn't speak the language, doesn't matter if her family paid taxes, doesn't matter if her family paid for health insurance. Damn criminals get away with everything.

</Sarcasm off>

I just don't see the point of treating children like criminals. Sounds like a good family, and no matter whether or not you think the parents did something illegal and should be deported. How can you want to deport a child who has never known anything but the great USA. SHE did not break the law. Her parents did.

Where in the article does it say she has no relatives in Brazil?

Pink is right. If they want to ship the bodies back to Brazil, that means there is family in Brazil to bury them. She has relatives there for sure.

Scalzo... there's the old saying you get what you pay for.

Yes, I know some "licensed" trades people I wouldn't want working on a dog house, but generally their prices reflect the lack of work they have.

The decent workers only want a decent wage for the work provided... they don't gouge people. They'd soon be out of business if they did. They know the prices decent competition uses and the pricing the illegals and dirt bags use.

Alot of them get free rides and we are paying for it

Show me one example. It's not true.

We import children from all over the world for adoption purposes. I think we can just leave this one here.

I am shocked at the number of people that are on the illegals bandwagon. HELLO PEOPLE..............they are here ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!! What is the matter with you people?????

lonereb The reason people adopt children from foreign countries is that bureaucrats are afraid that if an adoptive parent was to abuse that child people would blame the state, so they go over board to make it very difficult to adopt. But we will let anyone have children. Sounds logical. But who ever said America was full of logic.

I REALLLY want to know if all you you "send her back" posters feel that way about Cubans who come here. I remember in the no so distant past that it was republicans who were going ape@!$%# when Elian Gonzales was going back to his FATHER in Cuba. What gives?

If they are here legally, fine. If not, deportation. There are many laws I don't agree with, but I follow them, because they are the law. THAT'S what this is about, doing what's legal vs illegal.

I also have a problem but it is with people like you who post patent bull$hit and try to pass it off as fact. For example, Brazil has already indicated they would transport the remains back to Brazil. What your comment tells me is that you are an idiot.

bobbski.... maybe YOU should learn to read BEFORE you go slamming others for "bull$hit". Here's the quote from the article.

At a church meeting Tuesday night, Brazil's deputy consul general in Atlanta, Ana Rodrigues, offered the government's condolences, but could not promise any help or hope.

"Immigration issues are a matter of the American government," Rodrigues said.

And she was not able to say whether the Brazilian government would be able to consider the family's request for financial help to fly the bodies back to Marietta for the funerals, and to Brazil for the burials.

"I can't say yes or no. It's impossible, because I can't make this decision," she told the congregation.

bobbski... maybe YOU can point to the line where it notes that Brazil is indicating they will transport the remains back to Brazil?

So bobbski, and I qoute: "What your comment tells me is that you are an idiot."

I agree. If her family here is legal, then so be it. But she has to get her papers.

And a good point about Brazil, too. It's not like we would be sending her back to Egypt. Brazil is a fine country and an emerging market with opportunities. I'd have to think that if they want the bodies sent back to Brazil, there must be family there. She would not be alone.

I agree PH, what an awful thing to happen to this child. How could they live here and run a church with no legal documentation for so long? When you file your taxes that little thing called SS number comes up.....and apparently theirs were fake. A year ago my husband filed our taxes and guess what, the IRS said that his SS # was not his....3 different people were using his #. Well it took almost a year and a day off of work with no pay to go and straighten this illegal act out. I'm sorry for the child's loss but her parents who ran the "church" should of known better. They apparently were living a lie and faking ID's in someone else's name.

She has no birth certificate or SSN, so she never was going to be able to get a legal job even if her parents were still living. She should not be given an SSN, so without that she will be better off going back to her homeland. She has no real future here.

Kelly, I agree. It's highly suspicious that they were here so long without consequence. It's truly and indictment on our immigration control. As nice as they probably were, and as sad as this definitely is, it's very frustrating that they were allowed to be here illegally for so long. And to operate a church no less, which was tax exempt as well.

You are stunningly naive... which sounds much better than what I really think of your cognitive abilities.

PH, that goes for you as well. Brazil is a very nice country but there are areas, mostly in the north, that are not very nice or prosperous.

Oh yes bobbski......I can tell your intelligence level by the picture you have posted.......yikes!

I'm so happy you feel like you can comment on my intelligence. I'm not as naive as you'd like to think. Yes, there are bad areas of Brazil. There are bad areas everywhere. So what? I'll take Brazil over most options any day of the week.

Brazil is an emerging market and it's not nearly as bad as other countries, which is the point I was trying to make. Everyone in business knows Brazil is hot right now.

Brazil is the largest national economy in Latin America, the world's seventh largest economy at market exchange rates and the eighth largest in purchasing power parity (PPP), according to the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Brazil has a mixed economy with abundant natural resources. The Brazilian economy has been predicted to become one of the five largest in the world in the decades to come, the GDP per capita following and growing. Its current GDP (PPP) per capita is $10,200, putting Brazil in the 64th position according to World Bank data. It has large and developed agricultural, mining, manufacturing and service sectors, as well as a large labor pool.

Brazilian exports are booming, creating a new generation of tycoons. Major export products include aircraft, electrical equipment, automobiles, ethanol, textiles, footwear, iron ore, steel, coffee, orange juice, soybeans and corned beef. The country has been expanding its presence in international financial and commodities markets, and is one of a group of four emerging economies called the BRIC countries.

Before anyone slams you for claiming we have been 'footing the bill'--the fact is that the town her parents were living in illegally was 'footing the bill' for schooling to the tune of over $82,000 over the years, with another $18,000 or so to come if she is allowed to stay. (assuming a national average cost per child of $7500 per year) That does not account for her 'share' of the other local tax base expenses, and it assumes the family was not collecting any 'entitlements'. JUST school.

Ha, and just remember that church was tax exempt to boot. Makes me cringe.

any church that harbors illegals should loose their non-profit status period...that might help cleanup the sanctuaries...oops the catholic churches especially would be in deep sh*t if that happened!

I guess these hard-core criminals should deserve really stiff sentences, right?? And this story of a young kid who was adopted because his mother was deported and left alone... she shouldn't have any rights not to get her child back after 5 years because a judge deemed she "abandoned" him... therefor she has no legal say in the matter ?? Who are the real criminals here, and where does compassion come into play when children's lives are involved..???? Shameful what goes on in this country, and the blind hate of so many to the unfortunate few who many times are far better individuals than many of our own citizens..!!

And please note--the "aunt'' (live in girlfriend--how's THAT for a good exemplar?) and Uncle MUST be here legally themselves.

NOT trying to 'piggy back' on sympathy for the girl to 'get legal' themselves.

As I read the artical, the "aunt" (live-in girlfriend) and her uncle were also killed in the wreck. Maybe you should reread before posting.

No one has any issues with (legal) immigrants. Illegal aliens is where the issues lay.

(FYI, humans are not indigenous to the Americas. Everyone here either migrated here or is the descendant of someone who did.)

I dont think immigration is the argument. I think that people just want immigrants to go through due process. As people were coming off the ships in the 1700's, they were documented. You can go to Ellis Island and see that.

Sorry, but being here illegally, without the appropriate documentation isn't fair to those that are trying to abide by the law by seeking citizenship legally. It also isn't fair to the taxpayers who have to pick up the expense.

This is a Nation of immigrants, not illegals. When our ancestors came to this land, it was not a country. Our ancestors founded the United States of America, and determined the what the laws of the land should be. I say deport the illegal.

PH, Ellis Island screened immigrants for health issues. There were no limits on immigration until 1917 or so. Prior to that time, America needed laborers and immigration was open.

So, SychoMikey, your ancestors were here before 1776? Would it surprise you to know that the overwhelming number of Americans have ancestors who emigrated well after 1776? What you say doesn't count for much.

boobski - There may not have been immigration limits, but everyone was documented coming off the boats.

They were only documented on ship's manifests. The manifests were required by both the port of exit as well as the port of entry. The manifests were not transcribed for inclusion into a governmental database, well maybe the departure ports in Germany were included into German government records, them being almost anal regarding record keeping. Immigrants were examined to determine the state of their health. Much of the documentation, such as it was, was destroyed in fires. Emigrants needed no passports/visas, hell they didn't even need them until post WWI IIRC.

Onewoman--absolutely, we are a nation of immigrants. Even the 'native Americans' came from somewhere else. But we are now a COUNTRY of laws, and when we decided in the last century that we had ENOUGH people, we passed laws on who could come here and how. We had EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO. Nearly EVERY country in the world imposes limits on who and how people can come there. MOST are at least as strict as ours.

And here's the kicker--like us, those other countries ONLY want immigrants who have something to offer the COUNTRY, not those who will be a financial BURDEN on it.

Well, that's all good and well bobbski but that was the 1700's and I wouldn't anticipate that we would have had the technology to provide the same documentation we do today. We were able to document a lot of immigrants at that time as you can trace more than 100 million families can trace their heritage back to Ellis. We started implementing immigration policies in the early 1920's - that's when they implement medical screening.

bobbski you might want to go back and check your facts, in 1880's congress was drafting legislation on immigration. The first general Federal Immigration Law denied entrance to "any convict, lunatic, idiot, or any person unable to take care of himself or herself without becoming a public charge." In 1891 this law was expanded to include the expulsion of paupers, prostitutes, polygamists, or "persons suffering from a loath-some or a dangerous contagious disease."

bobbski, also go and check and you will find that the so-called medical exams you speak of involved mental tests. " They were given standard intelligence tests in which immigrants were asked to solve simple arithmetic problems, count backwards from twenty, or complete a puzzle. In an attempt to deal with immigrants' cultural differences, Ellis Island's doctors developed their own tests which allowed them to base their decision on problem solving, behavior, attitude, and the immigrant's ability to acquire knowledge. Requiring immigrants to copy geometric shapes, which was only useful for testing those who had some schooling and were used to holding a pencil. "

There is no requirement for any child to have a SS card/number. There is no requirement I am aware of in ANY state that requires proof of citizenship to attend a public school. As far as I know you just have to do is demonstrate residency in the school district.

Peter,

When my Daughter was born 11 years ago it was REQUIRED that we register her for a Social Security Number.

As for your claim that there is no requirement for proof of citizenship to attend public school...that is partially correct. Public schools do require proof of LEGAL RESIDENCY within the school district. So how can a person be a LEGAL resident within a school district, yet NOT be living in the Country legally???

I'll answer that one for you if the state accepts federal money for the school lunch program then they have to follow federal guidelines and are not allowed to ask the parents for anything except proof of residency in the district. The can't ask wether the parents are legal or not. A utilities bill is all the parents need for proof of residency. Which is why the border states have been complaining about the porous border for years.

A LEGAL resident in a district just means you are living in a residence within that district. It can be a home, apartment, or even a room you rent. As said, there is no requirement that you have to be in this country LEGALLY in order to attend school up to the high school level. Most colleges doesn't require it either, but you won't be eligible for federal student loans.

MMC(SS)--it USED to be that you had to show a birth certificate. My kids (now ages 27-33) had to have a BC to enter school, not to show citizenship, but to insure that they were the right AGE, and not being sent to school early (free baby sitter!) or late (negligent parenting) and to ensure proper placement. Furthermore, when I got divorced and moved from the big city to my small hometown with my kids, I again had to show their birth certificates, for the SAME reasons.

It was only when the country became over run with illegals that the schools dropped the requirement.

And to me, that is like saying that if a lot of people shoplift, lets just quit calling THAT a crime. I mean, it's only a misdemeanor, right?

MMC(SS)--it USED to be that you had to show a birth certificate. My kids (now ages 27-33) had to have a BC to enter school, not to show citizenship, but to insure that they were the right AGE, and not being sent to school early (free baby sitter!) or late (negligent parenting) and to ensure proper placement. Furthermore, when I got divorced and moved from the big city to my small hometown with my kids, I again had to show their birth certificates, for the SAME reasons.

It was only when the country became over run with illegals that the schools dropped the requirement.

And to me, that is like saying that if a lot of people shoplift, lets just quit calling THAT a crime. I mean, it's only a misdemeanor, right?

I'm sorry for this childs loss, If her realitives are here legally they should be able to adopt her, that would make her legal.

Peter,

I remember when I signed my children up for kindergarten, I had to show both a birth ceritificate, and proof of my address. Are the rules different now.? That could be where the problem is if a birth certificate is not required anymore. I don't think you could forge a birth certificate it has to have the state seal. I guess anything is possible.

I guess you don't need that birth certificate anymore after all. I had to show it back in the 70's. I pulled this off of the nys. education website. I love how they say educaion is free. Free to who, We pay really big school taxes here on the Island, and each year they continue to go up in some areas. mine always do. I think they need to update their site, I look at my tax bill every year and it say's what my school taxes are.

Education is provided through the public school system and is free. Funding for public schools is obtained through local and state taxes and through funding from the federal government for special programs.
No. The public school cannot refuse to enroll a child who actually lives in the school district because she or he isn’t able to prove legal immigration status. In fact, the school should not even ask about immigration status. You do not have to show a green card.

5. Can my child really go to school for free?

6. Does my child have to be a U.S. citizen to go to public school?

Thats where the problem if they would ask for a birth certificate Or some other legal papers we wouldn't have so many illegals living here. And that should go for home schooled too.

maryann,

Our laws are very tricky. And I believe because the way the Fourteenth Amendment is worded, this entitles illegals to attend our public schools without prejudice and this was brought to my attention by Sarah. Because the constitution in part reads "person" and not "legal citizen", it includes aliens, who are persons, and not exclude them from receiving equal rights.

The District Court held that illegal aliens were entitled to the protection of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment

The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says:

Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality, and the protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws.

Re: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0457_0202_ZO.html

They can't naturalize, they were illegally here. To naturalize you must have valid status.

To get valid status you have to return to your own country.

Make an example of her?,,,Oh yea,,I can see that,,,NOT,,,I'll tell Y'all what,,,this family was my neighbors,,they were good honest,hard working people,know one in the neighborhood even knew they weren't documented,,why would anyone ask?But,,to all of you who wish to make an example of her,to all of you who wish to make her life,,even more miserable,,,I've decided I would like to make an example of YOU,,,I would like to put each and everyone of you,up against a wall,,,and put a bullit,,right between your eyes,,,that's what you deserve,,,that's how I would solve this issue,,,I don't have the eloquent speaches you all have,,I can't sit and qoute political bulls#*t,,,all I know,is that this pretty,intelligent,high school girl has been left without her family,,,and you screaming assh*&*s,,have decided that she might as well die as well.

It's about compassion and rational decision making for you and me. But for many, it's about making an "example" of her - as if her life itself means nothing (see "o" nope's comment above).

Are there illegal aliens that should be deported? Without a doubt yes. Is she one of them? Anyone with an ounce of compassion would say no.

For all of the people that are saying the american indians didn't ask our ancestors to stay... there were no emigration laws.. There are laws for this now but what the hell anyone that wants to come here if your a criminal its ok since most of the people that came here in the early 1777's were kicked out of england and other parts of the continent.. being sarcastic

Compassion cannot be placed into laws. Legal and illegal are black and white areas, compassion just tries to add a grey area.

Okay, compassion cannot be placed into laws. Then you should know, a 3-year old cannot legally commit a crime. Her parents committed the crime, not her.

But, the entire family has to pay the price for that. As I have been told many time by law enforcement,"ignorance of a law doesn't grant you permission to break it." And now to the age thing, she is 15, not 3, 12 years have passed, and a 15 year old can legally commit a crime

Good point. So a 3-year old is sitting in the car seat while thier parents robbed a home and stole a sofa. The child sits in that sofa until they are 12. She is a criminal!

Dude, you know nothing about the law.

You act like she would be sent to a death camp if she was deported. What is so bad about going to live in a major city in South America? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

The crime was committed when she was a child, genius, and she isn't even of legal age to emancipate herself, let alone file for citizenship.

You act like she would be sent to a death camp if she was deported. What is so bad about going to live in a major city in South America? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

As a child with no immediate family or resources?

Yeah. I'm sure you'd do it. In a heartbeat. Disingenuous drivel.

all i can say to all of you is that 500 years ago natives used to call them white people 500 years later is call ilegal inmigrants..angelica is going to hell i will like to see her face soo i can help you get there much faster..

While we are at it, pack up all the losers born here that have done nothing but suck the life out of this country. This kid probably did more here than those born here and have done nothing but whine.

No one is paying the kid's way. she have legal relatives willing to take responsibility. More than many of the losers living here in NH.

R. Scalzo,

why should her paperwork be pushed in front of those people who have been trying to do the right thing since day one and didn't get caught due to a tragedy?

Oh really!?!?!?!? you are the epitome of fear and racial disparity in this country. For you it's throw her to the garbage. It does not matter that she knows no other country than the US, it does not matter that she lost her entire family in the crash. For you it's just throw her away like a piece of junk with no other value. But do not despair... they will come for you too...

And by the way, go check in the dictionary the meaning of aggravating and mitigating circumstances, then tell me if the law is black and white as you claim. And it is not me who says it, it's the law...

We already did pay her way free school lunch,medical not only her but her whole family..they were living the American Dream on our tax dollers...I feel bad for her but had this not happend would she have applied for citizenship when she turned 18 or her other siblings?

While I feel deeply for the teens great loss, it's a terrible tragedy, three things really disturb me about this situation. 1 is the situation of an illegal immigrant being one of the founding pastors of a church in the U.S. and all of it's implications/situations and 2 is if the relatives want her to stay in the States because she's so American as was her family then why do they want to send the bodies back to Brazil for burial. If that's where her family roots are so deeply set then send her back to her deep roots since she is afterall here illegally. And 3 is, does a personal tragedy exempt one from facing any penalties for breaking the law. If that's the case I'm sure there are alot of American criminals in jail right now that would have a legitimate case to be freed and those who have yet to break the law that would recieve no punishment for their crimes if they do. A person here illegally certainly should not have breaks that an American citizen doesn't no matter how tragic their situation. There are many legal Americans suffering great tragedies everyday. That doesn't make them exempt from the consequences of breaking the law.

Like I said before I'm sorry for this childs loss and if her relatives are legal then they should be able to adopt her.

But I must have missed something in the article, did it say her relatives were legal. I thought it read that she had relatives that wanted her to stay with them. If they want the family to be buried in Brazil then she must have relatives there and she may have visted that country a few times, then that country would not be foreign to her. Just saying.