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Subscribe to RSSA man who was declared suicidal by a New Mexico jail and alleges he was then left to rot in solitary confinement for nearly two years is just one of many former inmates who say they were denied essential mental health services while incarcerated at that detention center, which like others across the country has struggled with how to treat the mentally ill.
Stephen Slevin, 57, made headlines last week when a jury awarded him $22 million after he alleged inhumane treatment in the Dona Ana County Detention Center following his arrest in August 2005 on charges of driving while under the influence and possession of a stolen vehicle.
But a search of Dona Ana County court records reveals the detention center was also hit with a class-action lawsuit six months prior to Slevins', in which 13 former inmates alleged their constitutional rights to mental health care had been "continually and persistently ignored."
The lawsuit was settled in 2010, with a judgment of $400,000 for the plaintiffs and a commitment from the county to change its practices.
According to criminal justice experts, many other jails and prisons have struggled to adequately handle mentally ill inmates. Few areas of the country, they say, have the money and resources and staff to handle such a challenging population.
"The Supreme Court has established that you have a constitutional right to a basic level of adequate health care, which now includes mental health care," Thomas Hafemeister, an associate professor at the University of Virginia School of Law, told msnbc.com. "They've recognized that there tends to be limited resources in this setting. As long as a qualified professional has examined the inmate and exercised his or her judgment as to what needs to be done, that's all that is required."
'Cruel and unusual'
But Hafemeister, who has written about alternatives to the traditional criminal justice system for the mentally ill, explained that the definition of a "qualified professional" is a loose one.
"Some would argue for inmates, all that is required is medication," he said, meaning anyone with a medical degree, from a physician to a psychiatrist, could be considered qualified.
"Often it's very expensive. They're only willing to come in for an hour a week, and they zoom through very quickly. It can be a very cursory examination," Hafemeister said.
Slevin was detained for 22 months, released in June of 2007 without ever having been given a trial. By the time he was freed, he was deemed mentally incompetent, and his charges were dropped.
Slevin claims the only response he got while in Dona Ana Detention Center to his repeated requests for antidepressants was an increase in sedatives. Other mentally ill inmates at Dona Ana, according to the class-action lawsuit, struggled to get adequate care as well. One allegedly was punished by a medical technician, who discontinued his medications for two weeks; others complained of side effects but were not offered alternatives, the suit said.
“A jail like Dona Ana County was trying for years to cut costs, and nothing would force them to spend the money that they’re constitutionally required to,” Brendan Egan, an attorney who represented the plaintiffs on behalf of the ACLU and is now in private practice, told msnbc.com. “It’s cruel and unusual punishment. They weren’t willing to put money into it, even though they made money off of this jail. They’re paying the price for how they treated people for years.”
The primary plaintiff named in that suit, Jaime Bravo, was jailed from April 2007 until February 2008 after a domestic dispute. Bravo had depression, anxiety and acute psychosis, the suit said.
Four times during his detainment, Bravo attempted suicide, and each time he was then put in a padded cell or a restraint cell, said court documents.
“On or about November 15, 2007, Mr. Bravo made a fourth suicide attempt, by cutting his arm with a razor blade, necessitating stitches. DACDC staff placed him in a padded cell as a consequence … On or about November 16, 2007, Mr. Bravo tore out his sutures. DACDC staff placed him in a restraint chair as a consequence.”
In jail, mental illness will 'get exponentially worse'
While Dona Ana County was ordered to pay a total of $400,000 to the plaintiffs, a small amount compared to Slevin’s judgment, the bigger reward was that the jail changed how it handled mentally ill inmates, Egan said.
The jail renovated an entire section and “turned it into a very humane and real mental health unit,” he said. Officials also dedicated beds at a separate mental health hospital staffed by jail guards for the sickest detainees.
“Even if you take someone who has a slight mental illness like depression and you put them in a regular jail, they get worse,” Egan said. “[At Dona Ana County], they would just lock them in. They already had issues and you lock them up 22, 23 hours a day – they’re going to get exponentially worse.”
Just last month, the county approved a $2 million plan for a crisis triage center, which would offer an alternative for mentally ill people other than jail – something Egan believes will help.
“There were no mental health facilities or treatment for homeless people on the street, so you would have people on the street getting arrested basically for being mentally ill,” Egan said. “But once they got arrested, the county commissioners didn’t provide resources.”
According to Fred Osher, director of health systems and services policy at the Council of State Governments Justice Center, people with mental disorders are overrepresented in the mental health system.
"There's a variety of factors that contribute, but one of the research studies... looked at two jails in Maryland and three in New York. Seventeen percent [of inmates] met the criteria for mental illness," he told msnbc.com.
Nationwide, prevalence of severe mental illness among inmates is at least 15 percent, said Richard Bonnie, director of the University of Virginia’s Institute of Law, Psychiatry, and Public Policy.
“There are many factors at work here, but many us involved in this field are convinced that diversion from the criminal justice system into mental health services … can alleviate the problem without compromising public safety,” he told msnbc.com via email.
Jail diversion options include drug courts, where a substance abuse program is worked out instead of a jail sentencing; mental health courts, where a behavioral contract including drug tests and treatment appointments is drawn up; and sometimes, assignment to a mental health probation officer who is trained to handle mental issues and knows how to direct someone to health services.
"Lots of people have recognized there's this population with severe mental disorders that just isn't going to do well in a prison population," said Hafemeister, from the University of Virginia Law School.
Care doesn't have to cost more
And it doesn't always have to be expensive to divert those with mental issues, added Osher.
"What many systems are coming to realize is if you provide alternatives, then you can reduce length of stay. You can actually have this be a resource-neutral event. It doesn't necessarily require an infusion of dollars," he said. "We're spending tons of money warehousing, having people in a revolving door without producing good outcomes."
He cited Montgomery County, Md. as a successful example.
"They do a really nice job in screening and identifying folks with mental illness and diverting them when possible," he said. The county also tries get to them in psychiatric programs and help them with re-entry into the community, which reduces chances of them returning to jail, and helps them with their medication management as they transition out.
Similar programs are also happening at Alleghany County Jail in Pittsburgh and Miami-Dade, he said. Riker's Island in New York is undergoing a major transformation with their mental health care as well.
"Good things are happening at Riker's because of a settlement. The folks at Rikers with mental illness were ... without any resources to fend for themselves," he said. Baltimore and Memphis jails have also reformed their mental health care after being subject to lawsuits.
Training police officers to recognize mental illness is another key, Osher said, so those who need medical help can hopefully get diverted to emergency rooms or psychiatric centers before they are sent to jails in the first place - but only if that's not where they should be.
"We're not giving people a pass because they have mental illness," Osher said. "We're not being soft on crime. For those individuals that don't pose a public safety risk, there are these alternatives. There are treatments that can be provided."
Editor's note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly quoted Dr. Fred Osher as saying seventy percent, not seventeen percent, of inmates in a study met the criteria for mental illness.
Previous stories on this subject:
- Man spends 2 years in solitary after DWI arrest
- Letters from solitary confinment reveal DWI man's despair
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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I guess some people go to jail and expect good , free health care......and so do juries ....
We are definitely a 3rd world country.....I thought this was a Christian nation? Wow, we don't have to read Dickens any longer.....we are going backwards in our society instead of forwards..............how very sad!
the country was founded by members of freemasons, not "christians" as you would have it known. they use religion as a farce to control the masses.
I don't see the point of who might have started this country, the point is that people in jails and prison are "throw aways" of this country. Out of sight, out of mind. No one wants to set aside the tax money to put in place programs that can help these men and women get help for their issues that put them into prison in the first place, whether its mental illness or otherwise. You can't expect humans to be put in a cage for an amount of time and somehow expect them to walk back into world and be a better person without programs in place that can give them the means to change their overall behavior and maybe give then an once of hope in their lives.
Overall which do you think would cost the tax payers less? Keeping people locked away for years to release people who would just come back into the system ? Or Setting up programs that can give people the skills to go back into the free world to become productive tax paying citizens that have the desire to stay out of trouble and help their fellow man or woman?
Evans is right. Investing in people to make them more productive (be it basic education, mental illness treatment, job training) will always pay dividends to society. We spend too much on things that don't help us (ME wars come to mind) while neglecting the state of our own country.
Prisons shouldn't be privatized. Profit is a poor motivator for doing the right thing.
This is (MS)NBC, surely they use Microsoft Office 2000bazillion! In jail, mental ilness will 'get exponentially worse'
The editors spell check must hav glitched.
Mental Health in prisons and jails consists of medications (if they can get them.) Mental Health is very widely used in society by many people most (in my sphere of reference) of whom rely on "the State" (tax payer assisted) to cover the costs. Folks, the money is getting tighter and I'd rather let more socially functional (but dependent) people have the "free" mental health services before those who are deemed to be confined because of their inability to function in society.
Flag Waver:
Are you a Christian?
Nobody caught it yet..."must hav glitched." PUT THOSE EGGS DOWN!!! (Ducks for cover, cowers till it's clear!)
The next step will likely be for the ACLU to declare that all criminals suffer from 'mental health issues', and use that as an excuse to let them go free, or bankrupt our criminal justice system.
Perish the thought that criminals CHOOSE to engage in criminal activities.
they're Not All Crazy, maybe just a little bit LAZY..We become a Nation of; Free Rides/ EBT etc..for some, it's needed temporary..for others it's an outlet to; take advantage of the System..were in a day and age where even mentally handicapped people know about aspects of money..its a fine line in the cognitive/ right vs wrong thinking of the individual..i believe, anyone Not Obeying the Law, should face its ramifications despite, the state of mental condition..other the other hand, the mentally ill should Not be treated as abused animals..true; A desperate need of a better Mental Health Care System needs to be addressed..especially, in this so called; progressive society..
The fact is that most of those in jail belong there. Dangerous criminals need to be kept away from the populace, period. Now, we can dispute what's considered a dangerous criminal, ie; marijuana smoker's, candy bar stealers, etc., etc. v. murderers, rapists, etc, etc. The one thing we must not do is treat people inhumanely under any circumstances, period. That goes against what we, the United States of America, stand for.
I beg your pardon. People with mental health issues do have a tendency to commit crimes. They dont get help on the street because nobody cares. If they committ a crime they are tossed in jail just to sit and rot. I was in jail for a crime I didnt commit. I got out but what I saw was terrible. A young 21 year old boy tried to commit suicide. The guards were watching tv on their computer instead of doing what they shoild have been doing. Thank god the inmates in his cell (Overpopulated 350 is what the jail holds there were 650 inmates.) saved him or the boy would have been dead.Oh by the way, after they put the boy in a padded cell and took his clothes off, they went back to watching tv. Not everybody in jail deserves to be there. Our system is outdated and it does not work anymore. The only people that truly know this are the ones that are in jail for something they did not do.
Who cares, I thought prison was for punishment of a crime not free medical care.
Actually, everyone I've ever met who is in any way associated with jail and/or prison expects the inmates to be beaten regularly and treated worse than Micheal Vick treated dogs. Health care is usually the farthest from their minds.
But hey, it's not like idiotic assumptions ever lead to bad things right? So keep being all self-righteous. You're really good at it.
@ flag waver: you are spot on. THE most important thing missing in America is kindness. I'm so tired of hearing so many gloating over and blaming victims for their tragedies.
Sadly, the worse things get, the meaner people are becoming. Maybe if we start treating others the way we want them to treat us we could have a better world. Didn't someone say that about 2,000 years ago? It's never been more true than right now.
Come on, America! Wake up! Bury the hatchet. We can all bring some decency and kindness to the table. These qualities can turn around the greed and mean-spiritedness more than anything else.
I guess some people think we should treat the mentally-ill in this country by waiting for them to do something against the law and then throwing them in jail...
Bigbenalaska...most people who are mentally ill in jail are there because they have committed a crime related to their disease...which means, usually, they were unable to get treatment before they committed the crime.
As it now stands MH treatment, and treatment for the Chemically Dependent is non existant, (unless you are very good insurance) beyond the courts and jail system. And you see how that is working.
Families that attempt to get help for their family member usually do not recieve community support/services before the crime is committed. A person can not be involuntarily committed unless the courts deem that person a threat to self or others. Which is very hard to prove.
Reagan began dismantling the MH system, and now, most states have cut Mental Health Services beyond the bone. So, if you have an appropriate solution please share it...I know plenty of families who are desperate to find answers.
Mental care is an issue that must be addressed seriously whether you are homeless, in jail or part off our free society. Other countries address this issue as well and take measures to deal with it and not torture human beings. I was arrested by the Dona ana County police, for the same charge. I can say that it is run like a Nazi war camp. Since i am caucasian and mentally competent and employed I hired the best lawyer and won. Mentally challeged people dont have that pleasure until now! DACDC got what it deserved! Now, hold the people responsible that allowed these people to be misdiagnosed and mistreated. Implement a program for this "Social" problem.Wheres the Govenor? She was the DA in Dona Ana County then. Interesting?
Reagan closed almost all the State Hospital and put most of the people put in the street. There are some who get into home this cost-ed 3 time as much. So know the people are in jail or prison or dead.
Keept in Jail for 22 months for dunk driving and stolen vhichle??? That Government which keep its own citizen 22 months in Prison for such a petty crime its in business of empowering it self on expenses of its citezen: more Courts, more Judges, more Prosecuters, more Police, more Jails, more Prison Guard. its why they want more people in Prison because the corrupt Politics has create the Prisons Industries in order for few to enrich themselves.......... and u end up paying for these bills.
Mental helath is hard to come even if people are not behind bars. Just look at all the homeless people. Many of them suffer from some type of mental disease that can be easily controlled.
Our government spends billions on the "war on drugs" to avoid having someone nuke his own brains by choice, but it does almost nothing to help those that reallly have mentall illness, such as many vets that are homeless.
The war on drugs should have a few departments:
1) Rehabilitation places for addicts at LOW cost
2) Relax the stiff penalties for those that have marihuana. Other drugs are more dangerous, and should be prosecuted. If the Government could regulate the use of marihuna , the "war on drugs"could be less expensive.
3) Help the mentally ill with real drugs that are not available to some people due to lack of insurance
As a mental health worker for a state prison I have seen budgets and staffing getting cut for years. This after they cut the education and job training programs. I am no liberal by any stretch of the imagination, but unless they get the tools to succeed they will be back in prison again soon after release. I have seen a few inmates with a little bit of therapy and a new marketable skill become productive members of society again. Sometimes not much is needed, just simple counseling and giving them the coping tools to deal with anger issues or similar problems that got them into trouble in the first place.
I agree with all the cherry-picking WWJD liberals here (for you Obama voters, that stands for What Would Jesus Do). Let's just get rid of jails and offer counseling to all the criminals in this nation. After all, Jesus in effect said love those who would do harm to you and steal from you.
And for all you liberal/Democrats making comments about Reagan dismantling mental health care institutions, ask yourselves this question: What did Clinton and what has Obama done about it? Nothing. Obama specifically here after raising our national debt by roughly $3 trillion since taking office.
Were you paying attention? He passed reformation of the healthcare system, which includes care for the mentally ill. This despite opposition from the GOP, who don't give a damn about the poor or mentally ill. Part of that debt was the loans to banks at the beginning of Obama's term, something that George W. Bush begged he do. Stop bringing things up and leaving out important facts. No one believes Republicans care about American Citizens who aren't at least upper middle class. The country has been sick of the GOP for decades. That is why GW had to steal elections twice. And the potential candidates for the GOP this year don't hold a candle to Obama.
It's always interesting to see and hear other people's thoughts on mentally challenged people. I know from personal experience the hardship that they go through because I have two sons with Bi-polar & also other family members & close friends. I see both sides of the coin in the court system & others that are not in the court system. Their are no easy answers or resolutions for mentally challenged people. One of my sons has permanent damage o his heart, kidney's & liver from all the meds that mental health dr's have tried throughout his childhood. Titled a on paper as a detriment to society for just being bi-polar & in and out of the criminal court system since he was 11 now 24. Family & friends that have known him a short time or a long time, always say how can this happen to such a respectful, loving & kind young man be even seen as a detriment to society? As his mom I can only say this I hope & pray that some how some way every single challenged person whether it be physical or mental be treated with dignity & self worth instead of becoming the national statistic as a detriment to society!
Are you kidding me, in the state where I live and work in corrections, healthcare costs are HUGE. These clowns pay 5 bucks for the initial office visit and nothing else even for prescripts, if you dont like the healthcare here, get out. why do the mexicans come here? for cheap healthcare, why do Canadians come here? so they dont have to wait six months for a appt
I've experienced being in a state institution for mentally ill & criminally mentally ill.Places like these and jails don't know how to treat mental illness.What they do know is to drug someone up until they are no longer a danger or a problem to staff.
I truly believe psychiatry is a pseudo-science practice to medicine.I was told I had a chemical imbalance and was subjected to shock treatment to correct that imbalance,along with a miriad of anti-psychotic medications.
I think it's inhumane to label someone mentally ill.I'm sure many will disagree...but don't judge me too harshly until you have walked in my shoes.
Thank you.
Poor Criminals, what about the people they put in their graves? What kind of health care do you think they are getting. The government PC answer to mental illness is to not allow commitment but cut them loose on the streets to sleep on the street or under a bridge. So, when they hurt someone, we're supposed to put them in a nice comfy hospital so they get the treatment they didn't get in the first place and to hell with the person they killed or maimed?
Just an example of how PC has screwed up our country.
Are YOU kidding ME? I live in a border town (Arizona/Mexico), where Mexicans come over for a better life all the way around. Not just better medical, which is a laugh, because we here go across the border for cheaper meds and some dental. As for the Canadians...they come here as snowbirds for beautiful winters. They live here and go to Mexico for medical treatments not available in Canada and too expensive in the U.S. They stock up on meds, cigs, alot of things.
Mental Health Care here in the U.S. is sorely lacking....funding, public awareness, alot. I have seen better understanding with law enforcement though. More compassion and patience go a long way when dealing with mentally ill. Police officers now, are getting pretty good at recognizing the difference between a trip to jail or the hospital first.
Just as with so many other issues, there is plenty more work to do.
One way to reduce our "overwhelmed incarceration system" is to stop incarcerating people for low level marijuana offenses.
I am also one that thinks that legalizing, decriminalizing and taxing marijuana is the only way to go. The funds freed up and also generated could do SO much good, where it is actually needed. We would have more money for law enforcement, medical, education. Also.....space for the real criminals!
There are plenty of Americans not in prison denied essential mental health services...nothing new here.
Genius!!! "According to Fred Osher, director of health systems and services policy at the Council of State Governments Justice Center, people with mental disorders are overrepresented in the mental health system."
Uh, Mr. Osher, don't you mean "...in the prison system." or was it a mistake by the author of the article?
shanking my head you should look up the statisics on the jail population, we are imprisoning alot more than murders. the prison system in this country has become a for profit business and business is good.
Our approach to criminal "justice" and corrections is stuck in the Middle Ages. All we are concerned is punitive sanctions and making criminals suffer. NEWSFLASH: THAT DOESN'T WORK PEOPLE!!!! All civilized nations have realized this long ago and have reformed their prisons and criminal justice systems to focus on rehabilitating, educating, and treating their prisoners. Just look at prisons in Europe, Canada, and Australia. I would make you blush to say you are an American to see how they treat their offenders in comparision to how we treat ours. I'm reading the responses here and so many people act as if criminals are subhuman and do not deserve even the basic human necesseties. That is really sick. These are human being and deserve care and treatment as well as basic dignity and respect by virtue of the fact that they are human begins. And before someone says,"What about the people they hurt..." etc. Well, first of all, MOST people are in prison for drug related crimes. If we'd decriminalize drugs and focus on treatment then we could empyty our prisons and focus on the truly violent. Secondly, it doesn't matter WHAT these people did, who they hurt, how bad or heinous their crimes are they still deserve basic health care, including mental health care. I find it ironic that so many so called "Christians" in our society want to torture and kill criminals and not afford them their basic human rights and meet their basic human needs. You cannot tell me that Jesus would aprove of treating these people like animals. If you call yourself a Christian you cannot approve of the way our prisoners are treated in this nation. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." 1 John 4:20.
About half the people in prison are there for drug use, (1:8 for pot!!!) and many inmates committed their crime while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Some of these are self-medicating with drugs and alcohol. Bad people should be in prison--but we should have real alternative for those who are mentally ill. Many could be helped and avoid prison if we had the will. Betcha if we had "for profit" mental health inpatient services all the CONservatives here and the republican party would be screaming about how "necessary" it is. It's all about the bucks-- people be damned. Shame on this country for the prison industrial complex. It's cruel and it's costly, and it provides profits -- not security. Meanwhile -- funds are being cut radically for controlling the most dangerous drug of all-- meth amphetamine. The better to feed our prison system - for more and more profits.
Bottom line this articles subtitle is absurd, we don't treat mental health period
whatever
The inmates ARE getting the basic necessities. But apparently, that's not enough.
Yep, drug related crimes. They mugged somebody to get money to buy drugs or they broke into someone's home to steal things to get money for drugs or they robbed a store to get money for drugs. I could go on and on. You've obviously never been a victim of violent crime.
Jesus would not approve of breaking the law, either. Jesus understands that choices have consequences. NOBODY IS TORTURING THESE PEOPLE! Before Jesus was born, the law of moses required "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." Jesus gave a new law, but nowhere did he say that criminals should go unpunished.
The article gives one example of an inmate who was so messed up that he was declared incompetent to stand trial and the charges against him were dropped, but he's competent enough to turn around and sue the state because he didn't get the pills he wanted??? These are CRIMINALS. Anyone in prison who is so mentally ill that the care THEY ARE GETTING isn't sufficient, they are and forever will be a danger to themselves and the public and should never be allowed out.
The criminals are not the victims, no matter how many bleeding hearts out there want you to think so.
No doubt the criminals just LOVE the fact that there are so many people willing to feel sorry for them. These people in our prisons are the scum of our society. The masters of manipulation and selfishness. Feel sorry for them all you want. This article makes a mockery of the people who truly ARE mentally disabled.
boo hooo. lots of people who are free and work a job have trouble getting the treatment they need.
when you commit a crime that is part of your punishment
I miss the good old days when all one needed to be crazy was wear bunnie slippers and run around town with an axe.
ROY WILSON-336103
So you pessimistically predict the next outlandish ACLU step just so you can be disgusted with this made-up action? A real stretch, Roy... take a pill, would ya?
This goes right with the Romney declaration that the very poor already have adequate support systems. The mentally ill are the very foundation of both our very poor and our repeat criminals. Address the mentally ill issues and you solve a huge hole in our society.
BTW, didn't Reagan pull funding for the mentally ill in California... let them wander the streets and, in many cases, land in jail? They were deemed too expensive to care for... some safety net we have here.
kg,
A great example of using twisted interpretations of religion to justify your lack of responsibility. Jesus would have us care for our mentally ill. Most were mentally ill before they were criminal, so society bares some responsibility, especially when treatment was sought and denied.
Jesus forgives. You apparently don't. Jesus would have us take care of the down-and-out. You apparently would not. Jesus teaches responsibility... should I go on?
@Vince-545056
@LMarct
I'm not very religeous but Amen
Roy Wilson: You're just wrong man. Another hateful right-winger. Many "criminals" are very mentally ill and if you ask any psychiatrist, it's a major reason why our jails are full.
Maybe we should just assume they all have full faculties and chose to be there. We'll do nothing for them. They'll be released after serving their time. They'll be worse than when they went in too. I just hope they rob and kill you instead of me.
Why don't you educate yourself before making such ignorant, callous comments?
Ernie--most Canadians do not come to the US for care. In fact, the gentleman who drove for hours with his wife trying to get back to Canada--though she died before he could get her there--probably was motivated to get her to Canada so he wouldn't have to pay the exhorbitant costs here in the US. If we actually had "better" health care, he might have stopped to get her help and she might not have died in the car.
There is no six month wait for appointments in Canada. This is all a lot of silliness perpetuated by Fox News. I am sure that they found someone to claim that s/he was told to wait for six months--but was that person telling the truth? Probably not, unless the care was elective (one waits quite a while for elective surgery in Canada).
In Canada, 36% of patients wait six days to see a doctor--yes, that is the highest percentage. The second highest percentage is here in the US, where 23% of patients wait this long (it is substantially less in the UK, New Zealand, Australia, Germany). In Canada, 33% of patients wait 4 months or longer for non-elective surgery--it is only 8% in the US, but then, in the US many people cannot get elective surgery and so simply do without (which does dramatically decrease the number of people getting such surgery and speeds things up for those who do).
While I am quite sure that you could find someone who was told s/he would have to wait 6 months to get elective surgery--and I'm sure that person whined loud and long about it--and so the person came to the US for that elective surgery, the point is still that the average person in Canada does not need to come to the US and that no one waits 6 months for an appointment (unless the appointment is "elective" and with a specialist--and even then, it would be rare).
Remember that in the US, 23% of people have to wait 4 weeks or more to get speciality care--and in Germany, only 6% have to wait four months or more for elective surgery--so, really, it is Germany that does the best (and Germany also has universal health care). In any case, this article is about mental health care--which we have very little of here in the US--and not about universal health care.
Oh, and people are going from the US to Mexico to have surgery (especially dental surgery) these days because the cost is so much lower. This is called medical tourism--and it is mainly people from the US who go to Mexico and to Southeast Asia for surgery that they couldn't possibly have afforded in the US. Have a great day.
we go to other countries for affordable care because of the high cost in America, corporate America sent our jobs to other countries to get cheaper labor, flip flop.
"bigbenalaska
I guess some people go to jail and expect good , free health care......and so do juries ...."
This comment is the absolute essence of ignorance.
What do you suggest we do with our mentally ill? Do you think they don't exist? Are you one of those Randian morons who somehow thinks everyone is born capable of caring for themselves without the assistance of others? Do you have any clue what mental illness is? Mental retardation? FAS? Brain injury?
What would we expect of our public if our government said "to hell with the health of those we lock up." How could anyone possibly think that an inmate should not have access to health care. Are we not better than that? Does a person, for example, locked up for something as innocuous as possession of marijuana deserve to suffer health problems that are completely unrelated to his conviction just because he's locked up?
Not to mention the prevalance of innocent people languishing in our prisons. Almost 300 post-DNA exonerations to date and thousands more fighting to prove their innocence. Do they not deserve access to health care?
People who've had no experience with the mentally ill have extremely distorted views of the system. Four to five decades ago, we dealt with our mentally ill be looking them up in "hospitals." It was considered cruel and inhumane. So we performed a massive overhaul of the system. Unfortunately, all the alternative programs we had hoped to use were subsequently defunded and our mentally ill have now ended up in the criminal justice system. We now incarcerate over 1% of our population, significantly more than the next highest incarcerated country, South Africa. Based on sheer numbers alone, the rest of the world considers the U.S. a "police state." It's dangerous and it's bad policy and it's time for another overhaul.
Mental illness is a real problem. I'm shocked by the posts on here suggesting that it isn't. I worked in psychiatry for 8 years before going to law school. These people are real people with real mental health issues. The absolute worst place for someone with mental health problems is a jail or prison. Yet that's where we've put them as a result of our "tough on crime" policies. These people don't get the treatment they need and end up reoffending. Just look at our recidivism rates for the mentally ill. No other country in the world comes anywhere near it. It's not working. There are, however, programs that do, such as Diversion Programs, Mental Health and Drug Courts, and ReEntry Programs. The problem is that the public doesn't want to fund these programs on the front end. For some stupid reason, they prefer paying it all on the back end. The communities that have implemented these programs have consistently reported reduced recidivism and significant resource savings. It's just amazing the ignorance of people who oppose these kinds of solutions. Wouldn't you rather pay a little more up front to save a lot later and prevent further crime from happening? Consider the example of a building that needs a new roof. We could pay on the front end to put on a new roof or we could wait until the roof leaks and causes water damage and pay more on the back end. Similarly, with our mentally ill, we can accept the fact that they exist, pay for their treatment on the front end, prevent mental health induced crimes from occuring in the first place, and not have to waste public resources on locking them up and sending them down that spiral of reoffending. It's just too bad more of our public isn't smart enough to understand these issues.
Finally, how we treat our prisoners is a reflection on how we treat ourselves. And the rest of the world has been taking note of it.
thank you, a pleasure to read an intelligent, well thought out comment on an important, compelling issue, which needs to be addressed immediately in this country!
If they are mentally ill, how do they know the care is sub-standard?
@denver bill - Just because they're mentally ill doesn't mean their stupid or unaware. I believe that you don't
have much knowledge about the effects of mental illness.
Just because they're mentally ill doesn't mean their stupid or unaware. That should have been they're the second time too... Don't even think of talking about someone elses lack of knowledge when you make a first grade grammatical error. Either way, there are a lot of people on the outside that can't afford any mental health treatment and they aren't criminals, we should worry about the ones that are free first before they end up in jail.
JasonH's grammar errors don't make him wrong, FWalsh.
Once we (as a society) have determined that an individual must reside within the state's care, it becomes our duty as a society to meet that individual's basic needs. It's one thing to jail an individual as a punishment for a crime, it's another thing to jail an individual because they're batsh*t crazy and not in complete control of their own actions.
Depression, bipolar-ism, schizophrenia, and other behavior-changing mental illnesses can and do lead to criminal actions, which are very frequently drug offenses. Jailing these people without treating them is putting the cart before the horse - it will not fix the problem, is often punishment disproportionate to the crime and therefore unconstitutional, and does nothing to address the individual's behavior once he is released from jail.
Not guilty by reason of insanity is a startlingly difficult verdict to be awarded. It is inconsistently applied and doesn't always reflect the reality of the situation. For example, in some areas you can literally get away with murder if you truly believe God told you to do it...but you can't if the voice you heard was the Devil. Never mind that you were hallucinating either way...
Despite my incorrect usage of their and they're, I can assure you that I know the difference. By the way, you might want to reconsider that "someone elses" in your statement. But I'm sure you already know that.
Feel free to chime in with more lessons on the English language if you can find time between the nonsensical, gratuitous attacks.
They just look at you. If they act like you , then, they are mentally ill.
F Walsh,
When you offer a short direct quote from another writer, you should enclose it in quotation marks; thus, the first sentence in your post above should be enclosed with quotation marks. When you refer to a word as a word, you should either use quotation marks or italics; thus, in your second sentence, you should have enclosed "they're" in quotation marks or you should have italicized they're. Also in your second sentence, you use "that" as a simple pronoun; while not technically ungrammatical, this usage creates ambiguity that the reader must sort out. You end your second sentence with an incorrect use of the ellipsis; you should review the usage rules for this mark of punctuation. In your third sentence, "elses" is incorrect, as it carries the possessive case; thus, it should be written "else's". In the same sentence, you fail to properly punctuate your two-word adjective "first-grade" (two words functioning together as a single adjective should be hyphenated). Your last sentence also contains several errors. You begin the sentence with the alternative marker "either way", but as you didn't offer two alternatives to a defined matter, this usage is incorrect. When speaking of people, the correct relative pronoun is "who", not "that" ("there are a lot of people who"). Finally, this last sentence is actually two sentences spliced together with a comma, an incorrect practice.
Lune
Lune,
Nice. Please don't ready any of my posts.
hwilson:
Not guilty by reason of insanity (always believed that to be idealistically illogical.) If one is "not guilty" they require nothing further. If one is "guilty" (by reason of insanity) "the state" needs to possibly confine somebody, require they obtain treatment, and be monitored for improved "health." If deemed qualified to function in society, then they begin to "pay back" (at least in part) what was provided to them.
If one is "not guilty" they simply require nothing, let them go!
:enuL yeH
!did I ekil pu ssem neht dna (CBNSM) “syug gib” eht retfa og, ettedud/eduD
Teh “lttlei gsuy” aer barlye waake ni teh mronnig! Fnu raedngi, sin’t ti? Enjoy yourself!
Check the DSM-IV. If you can find something in there that fits, you've got a ticket to the psychiatrists couch at tax payer expense.
Any way you slice it...it is a sad commentary on a society that has become so calloused, and cruel.
SonOfMollyM,
I give you my solemn oath that I will never ready any of your posts. I may read a few here and there.
Sarcasticus1,
D@ mOrnIN Iz @v kOrs D@ bEst taym tu bi bErli @wek {nd goIN {ft@r D@ bIg gayz. Ay pr@f@r biIN sawnd @slip {t mIdnAyt {nd tSesIN D@ lit@l gayz.
Lune
They are mentally ill not idiots like you.
Denver. Are you serious? Being mentally ill is not equal to being stupid.
What's your excuse?
denver I am mentally ill but i also have a iq of 170. While I may not have any social or verbal skills I am not unintelligent. ( yes I know I have no grammer skills either so please be easy on me lune)
@ Neko:
Thanks for writing that. Many people really don't know that mental illnesses are not mental retardation. That is just one part of mental illness. There are other diseases of mental illness, such as clinical depression, phobias, and the most common disease of our time: Post- Traumatic Stress, that can occur very frequently when someone is robbed, has an accident, or COMES BACK FROM WAR.
People that otherwise could be helped with the right treatment, usually suffer alone because of the ignorance of the medical profession, the lack of financial resources to be treated, and the fact that they look "normal"in the outside. Nobody can really tell the suffering that they are having, unless they get medical attention.
They're criminals. They are masters of manipulation. Like the guy in the article that was deemed incompetent to stand trial and his charges were dropped, then he turned around and sued the state because he didn't get the pills he thought he needed when he was in the stir.
The tail is wagging the dog.
We're obviously not as tough on our criminals as we need to be.
How many of you have actually been incarcerated or committed to a mental hospital? Until you have,then I will listen to your reasonings...otherwise please keep your uninformed information to yourselves please.I was commited twice.I suffered major depression,and because I wasn't getting better under a psychiatrist's care,he commited me...when I was released I ended up under the care of another and he did the same thing.Once your in the system it is very hard to get yourself out.It took me over 10 years to get out beneath the thumb of psychiatry...and i'm never going back!
Lune....I justed loved your comments,but please be kind to my ignorance with the writen language.I hated english classes as a kid and teenager,and now it shows as an adult.I wish I would of paid more attention back then.
Do you believe there's rehabilitation for people who are "batsh*t crazy"? Because that's one of the issues the article addresses. Someone who is not in complete control of their own actions doesn't belong in prison, it's true, they belong in a mental hospital. If someone who can't control their own actions is violent, they cannot exist outside of said mental hospital because they are and forever will be a danger to themselves and the public.
Keep in mind, criminals WANT to be deemed mentally incompetent because it gets them off the hook.
Ralphy...you apparently don't live in Illinois...my father suffered from bi-polar and it was a constant fight to get him help when he needed it.
He was the only one who could put himself in the hospital, and once, when we thought he would finally be put in for some much needed help, we were told about 20 minutes before court that he wouldn't be tried...you see, he had to do something ELSE in that county, but since it was just a one time thing, it didn't count.
bluepanther20
I am truly sorry to hear about your father.I'm not saying people don't suffer from different forms of mental illness...I am saying most pychiatrist...especially in jails and metal hospitals either don't know how to treat it,or they don't want to.
NO...I have never been institutionalized in Illinois...I hope your father is doing better now,and I hope he was able to find help outside of being committed.In a lot of states your treated less than an unwanted animals.I could tell you many horror stories,but wouldn't have the patients to write them all out.
I realize bi-polar is VERY hard to live with.Most don't want to take medication because they really like the manic phase...but the crashes can be very devasting.I've witnessed both phases personally,they are either non-stop talking,can't sleep and bouncing off the walls...or they are crashing and can't muster any will power to get out of bed.
so my heart really does go out to you and your family and your Father.
Ralphy-3621546,
The first rule that ought not be broken for light reasons: Read all the way through.
The second rule that is neither here nor there: All you needed to know about grammar you learned by the time that you were two, or thereabouts. All else is fusty old men reading dictionaries and looking to hold on to their jobs.
The third rule about your ignorance with the written language: See the second rule.
Cheers and hugs,
Lune
Thank you, Ralphy...my dad died in a fire two years ago...luckily, he was pretty much out of it by then.
Lune...WTF?
There is plenty of money in the jail system due to the exploitation of labor......put the labor to good use by using some of it to pay for Mental Health Services. If you honestly have Mental Health issues you should not be treated like a criminal. However, if you are a criminal they should give you a clean pair of pliers for your oral health and you should eat the "Tuesday Suprise" three meals a day for seven days a week. Criminals may not want to come back after that....
If the expense is the primary issue we could save even more money by making any felony a capital crime. How's that for a solution, RandogM?
Wow, yeah. a dose of barbarism will scare them straight and reduce recidivism. It amazes me how people can propose these sort of things and not honestly question themselves about the cruelty they advocate towards other. It frightens me to think that many otherwise law-abiding men and women are latent sadists who want the "wicked" punished by any means they can devise.
RandogM you sound like one of the Republicans running for President and both your ignorance and callousness is on display. I'm glad to see the majority of people on this post espouse some intelligence and compassion.
I have to agree with everyone else what kind of angry sadist are you? Do you feel that if others suffer your life will be better? I just can not wrap my mind around thought like yours.
Most people who commit crimes have mental problems (why would they commit crimes otherwise??) But if you are sane when you get sentenced, I would expect being in jail would give you serious mental issures.
Since we refuse to behave like a civilized country and provide proper health care for all its citizens, no one will have any sympathy with convicts who have any sort of health care.
Yo'd be surprised how many inmates claim to be "mentally ill" and are faking to get special treatment, perks and good drugs. The few programs in prisons for the mentally ill ar4e about 1/2 fakers. While working in conjunction with one of these programs---one inmate in particular was 'instructing" others on how to get into the program and how to stay in the program and how to get goverment money when they got out. His mother by the was was a parole agent. Another inmate in the program had "depression"---his medication---Prozac---my neighbor's dog is on Prozac---and this inmate is "mentally ill'---what does that say about the neighbors dog???
Yes there are some that are truly 'nutters' but with the closure of the state and federal mental hospitals (oh my we can't violate their rights by confining them) those who are mentally ill end up in prison---because they can't function in society.
Those who are mentally ill end up in prison because the can't function in society. So what should we allow as a society? How far should their legal rights go when they can get by with taking lives or harming our children all based on a subjectivly based form of medicine. There is no cure unless there are medical reason such as a brain tumor, they just treat symptoms by medicating, release the perps so they can repeat their actions, then the circle starts over again because of some wishy washy lawyer who believes winning is more important then protecting society or an egotistic psychiactrist who thinks he can cure the person.
Maybe the States need to reinstate mental institutions for those who can't function in society.
DK, all mentally ill people aren't homicidal. Most of it is treating basic depression or anxiety which can sometimes lead to crimes. They worry about treating those in jail but poor and free people aren't worth their time. Treating them before they committed a criminal act would be better in my humble opinion.
I think GED teacher needs to find a different job. Just because an inmate *says* you can scam the system this way or that doesn't mean you actually can. The Prozac comment is completely irrelevant, but I would point out that sometimes people (who can afford it) obtain psych meds for their pets because the condition has to do with the chemistry and functioning of the BRAIN. So, yes, maybe the dog is mentally ill. Nobody gets high from Prozac, antipsychotics tend to zonk people out, anti-seizure drugs are also often used and also zonk people out. These also cause weight gain. For the most part, the issue with psych meds is people NOT wanting to take them, not people wanting access to them. Even where jails have fairly credible mental health programs (I am on a state regional council and live in a county where we have instituted a program to screen and treat jail inmates--a program that happened mostly because the *police department* knew what they were dealing with on the street) anxiety and depression are typically not included in the list of serious mental illnesses that are screened for, simply because jail itself tends to create those conditions. Underlying mood disorders are screened for, and psychosis (which can be a manifestation of acute anxiety or depression). Where anxiety is treated, commonly non-addictive drugs like visteral--an anti-histamine--are the first choice.
The issue with Mr. Slevin is not just that we did not get treated, it's also that he was entirely lost in the system. The docket for his case (which you can read online) has many, many entries--mostly involving delays requested either by his PD or the state. In the end, he served FAR MORE time than he would have served if simply convicted and found guilty of DUI. In fact, if he had been charged with, say, capital murder, he probably would have gotten great mental health treatment since the state would want him competent for trial and, possibly, competent to be executed.
They end up in jail WHEN they are not functioning in society, not because they can NEVER function. I have a history of PTSD, major depression (recurrent type), and anxiety. As a young adult (before I was diagnosed with anything) I developed full-blown psychosis that lasted for months, followed by severe depression that lasted for many more months. I could not function for more than a year (lived at my parents during that time). Eventually, with treatment, I completed my education and worked. Since then, depression has remained a struggle, with a couple of stretches during which I could not work, including one where I was barely getting through a day at a time--not sleeping, unable to maintain focus long enough to prepare a meal (very effective was to lose weight but I would not recommend it to anyone), constant suicidal thoughts. Ended up having to change a Rx I had taken for many years by then. And eventually went back to work. I have been lucky in that addiction to drugs or alcohol was never a side-effect of my illness, I live in a large enough city that there IS a state-run mental health center, a Walmart where I can get prescriptions filled cheaply, and a university which has a clinical program (part of its psych grad programs) where you can get counseling for cheap. These resources have helped fill the gap when I could not afford to pay for care.
Sometimes people end up in jail not because their offense was serious--maybe just an infraction (such as having an open alcohol container in public) but don't pay their fines because they have no money, and/or don't show up for court in the right place at the right time (in a town where there are different court systems they can easily show up at the wrong courthouse on the right day). "Functioning" includes a lot of different levels--for a severely depressed person brushing their teeth might be a big improvement. Managing one's affairs comes in at much higher functional levels and for many people requires some kind of support from a caseworker--but nobody (especially GOP types) wants to pay for that support EVEN when it means people CAN stay out of jails and hospitals and save money.
your story is so right on the mark , law enforcement officer are so intent on excertting their "A" type control mentality on people that they lack judgement to make decetions , in Missouri a kid that had fallen 30 ft and had broke his back was tasered 13 times for not rolling over on comand, you would think that with all the knowage the LEOs possesed that after the 3rd or 4th time they might have put 2and 2 together but no, they blamed the kid because he was calling out in pain .
It seems the issue with mental defect may lay more with the type of personalitys that are drawn to law enforcment . They have high rates of demestic abuse and incidents of uncontrolled rage , they wind up be control freaks that lose control when even slightly challanged . tasering granny over a traffic ticket or over unleashed dogs makes a person go humm
And no Ive never been arrested eccept for 1 FTA due to a court error which was thrown out , yet its still on my record untill I spend 2 grand to have it remover , just more inside legal mumble jumble back rubbing by the law community to get what they can
GED Teacher---
Isn't that the purpose of mental health evaluations - carried out by mental health professionals or even experts - to distinguish inmates who have legitimate mental health problems from those who are merely faking?
If the fakers take advantage of the system, whose fault is that? Moreover, even if some do creep through the system because of faking, that's no justification for not properly treating inmates who actually have mental health issues. Is it?
--but nobody (especially GOP types) wants to pay for that support EVEN when it means people CAN stay out of jails and hospitals and save money
You are totally correct. Thank you for sharing your story. The Republicans don't care ab
The system is overwhelmed; there's no way that a jail can do much beyond house the inmates and try to keep them from killing each other or doing who knows what else.
This guy got caught up in the system and it chewed him up pretty bad. $22 million is enough, I guess. Maybe.
Woulda been a hell of a lot cheaper if they'd treated him and also gave him some form of court hearing. There is no excuse for him being jailed without due process.
Guy got caught in the system and was chewed up pretty bad? Hell no he wasn't!This guy got a ROYAL SCREW JOB! This guy didn't EVEN EXIST IN THE SYSTEM!
22million will never ever compensate for the DAMAGE THAT THEY DID TO THIS MAN!He was supposedly damaged goods when he was supposedly arrested,more liked kidnaped.Then they turned around and exacerbated his situation BECAUSE OF STUPIDITY AND CRUELTY!
NO NO 22million will never ever compensate what was done to this man,he scarred for life,both mentally and physically, and nothing can ever make up for that, not a dam thing!
oh bull
Prison for profit is immoral and unjust.
Agreed. There are certain things that simply should not be for profit.
The hell with them. Give them medication to calm them, that's enough. I am sick of this constant nonsense about "rights" because we have a left wing press and left wing Supreme Court. They committed a crime, let them rot in jail. Period.
For profit rules.
What makes it immoral and unjust. Cause you said so. How about you put a few prisoners up at your house and you can do it the moral and just way bleeding heart.
Why do right wingers hate civil rights and the Constitution?
The hell with them. Give them medication to calm them, that's enough. I am sick of this constant nonsense about "rights" because we have a left wing press and left wing Supreme Court. They committed a crime, let them rot in jail. Period.
Somehow you make the death penalty look better. If you have ever known someone with a mental illness that does not get proper care, life can be a real hell, worse than death. You, after all, get your wish very frequently . A Republican by any chance?
why are the mentally ill in jail anyways? even if they have committed a crime theres places for them other than jail...its called a psychiatric hospital.
you can thank Mr. Reagan for that,also for about half the basket people on the street
Costs too much money. Put them in jail and give them Prozak and Paxil. We waste too much money on prisoners already, especially the 21% of federal prisoners that are illegal aliens.
jerry prozac and paxil do not treat all mental illness and giving someone the wrong meds only makes the problem worse. Think before you post.
We waste too much money on prisoners already, especially the 21% of federal prisoners that are illegal aliens.
Wrong! Most of the prisoners are people that committed minor felonies with drugs, usually blacks in the South States. - Not that the white people don't do drugs, they are not profiled as much-
I agree that there should be punishment for crime, but not all crime is the same. Getting caught with marihuana should not be the same as killing someone. Illegal Aliens also should not be put in jail with murderers. Crossing the border is not like killing someone.
The prison system really turns people into criminals.
not so much anymore, Ashley. Reagan closed many down. Some hospitals that have a psychiatric hospital in them have them no more.
Ashley, you are correct there are such things as mental hospitals. BUT the problem with that is the state funded hospital in which a forensic patient would go ( I worked at a psych hospital with a forensic ward for 15 years), is that the states are getting out of the psych business and there is no where for the REAL sick patients to go. Of course there are the people that claim that they are sick to get a lighter sentence, but there are supposed to be a panel of doctors weeding them out.
Actually, Ella, there are places for the mentally ill prisoners to go. My husband works for a corporation that has facilities all over the United States and Internationally in which prisoners that are mentally ill are housed. They have a psychiatrist that works every day and registered nurses on each floor. Prisoners are often sent from other states to his facility. The facility also houses inmates who have terminal disease, such as cancer or AIDS. My husband is one of the guards at the facility. The inmates are housed indefinitely or until they are stable and can go back to general population. The worst mentally ill prisoners are kept permanently. A few examples are prisoners who cut themselves, those who have tried to commit suicide while in jail and sexual predators. They are all given excellent health and mental care. They attend group meetings and have one on one time with the psychiatrist. The company that runs these facilities are constantly building new ones.
So reforms are being implemented to take care of those inmates who need comprehensive medical care and mental health care.
If these people do not get care inside jail, remember they will be free to roam the streets again. Then we all wonder why they never got the help they deserve.
How is it that one who is supposedly mentally ill is able to know at all about stealing a car? just even having the idea thereof? As for lawyers, it seems they are the priests of the secular world, and speak for any one that has an issue by which money can be obtained through exploitation; and the people love it so.
Some of your alternate personalities are probably smarter than you are.
once again mental illness and intellect are not the same thing.
Harris County in Houston Texas probably has one of the best Mental Health Units in their jail.
i have no doubt that there are problems getting mental health treatment in jail, however, there are problems getting mental health treatment anywhere. this country does not believe mental illness exists (much like the current iranian president does not believe there are any gays in iran). the cursed insurance industry has relegated mental health to a second class disorder even though 50% of people in doctor's waiting rooms actually suffer from mental illness. mental illness is STILL seen as a character defect in this backward country. front line providers are general practice physicians (not psychiatrists) with virtually no training in mental illness and with incentive from the insurance industry to not refer to real providers. hopeless.
You are so correct! We should be aware that in times of economic struggle, mental illnesses tend to increase. I read on the paper that suicides were on the rise the last 2 years. Some of the people were just depressed patients, or people with anxiety disorders, unable to cope with the added stress of losing a home or losing a job.
But the Republicans want to remove all those barriers that just barely protect the old and the disabled. What then? We will have more homeless people living on the streets, more sick people committing crimes, etc. But Donald Trump will come up on TV smiling and saying that "Everything is fine now that we have a Republican President"
Talk about self-serving a*****s
It sound like a major failure for the psychriatic organization not to find a cure for mentally ill people. After all this time, even though they have made progress in finding med's for mentally ill people they still can not figure out why patient will not take there med. If they could figure that one there would be a lot more normal mentally ill people in the streets not causing disturbance and sent to jail for things that are out of there control because of there mental capacity. I wonder sometimes how do the psychiatrist/researcher sleep at night.
It's my understanding that there are two main reasons they don't take their meds. First, the drugs make them feel sluggish and gain weight. Second, they feel normal and decide they don't need the medication. Health care providers are aware of this, but what can they do in an outpatient situation?
marco- There is no silver bullet. Different people respond to different medications in different ways. What might work for one person may not work at all for another or may have intolerable side effects. And the ability to afford medications (let alone therapy) is severely limited without insurance. Even generics are expensive if you're paying full price!
Another reason that people don't take their meds is one that most people never really consider except when it relates to mental illness. Compliance rates for any prescribed illness are abysmal. How many people don't finish every pill of an antibiotic, or don't take it as directed? How many women on birth control occasionally miss a pill or otherwise take it inconsistently? Many people won't even take insulin or heart medications or AIDS medication like they're supposed to because they forget, or they don't like the side effects, of they're in denial they're sick, or they just plain can't remember.
So if you've ever missed a pill or not fully and perfectly complied on any medication in your life you can't really psychiatrists for failing on their job.
If someone could come up with a safe, easy, legal way to help people stay compliant on their medication they'd be a millionaire, but sadly that's not likely to ever happen.
It sound like a major failure for the medical organization not to find a cure for cancer.
Is the second statement any more true than the first?
Marco you have a very narrow veiw of mental health I have been taking care of a parinoid schizophrenic for over the last decade. She has real problems understanding sometimes what is real and what is in her mind. there have been times over the yrs when I was told by her that I was killing her by making her eat posion(take her meds) I guess my main point is that not all problems have simple solutions.
No cure for mental illness?
My God, then the doctors just aren't doing their job, are they?
Mental illness is not the same as cancer, or the flu.
Damn, you are so smart...why don't you share with all of us how mental illnes can be cured?
Gosh..that's what I'm saying. Some folks are born mean...sometimes you just get what you get.
There is no magic pill that can fix what ails you. Do we just kill these folks because we are afraid of them or do we look to a solution? Mental illness is not going to go away simply because it offends us.
How can this be cruel and unusual punishment when much of the nation cannot afford health care (including mental health services)?
Cruel? Yes.
Unusual? No.
How can this be cruel and unusual punishment when much of the nation cannot afford health care (including mental health services)?
Exactly! Many Americans that ARE NOT in jail suffer not only mental illnesses, but real diseases, and can't afford to go to the doctor. We are sending a message to the world that we are a nation of Rich people, willing to rescue anybody in trouble. Mitt Romney is the poster of the "American Dream" For us is the "American Nightmare" if he becomes President.
Heck! we can't even rescue ourselves from those dumb Politicians in Congress. They should give up their insurance, and see how the rest of the people really struggle.
All New Mexico needs to do is send the prisoners with mental problems to Mississippi They just evecute them.
Let their families take care of them, since when is it taxpayers responsiblity for mental patients and prisoners.
The families do not care when their son or daughter is thrown in prison, but when they die in prison their the first in line to sue the taxpayers for money to sit on their asses and drink and do drugs.
Mkae the families pay for their mental health care while in prison or let them do what they will , if this is commit suicide maybe this is better for them if nobody cares not even their families .
Waht good do these people bring to society except, crime.
It's probably your family that made you that way in the first place.
it becomes the taxpayers responsiblility when they go to prison. period that is just the way the country works. the only real answer if to understand why we jail a larger percent of our population than any other country in the world.
guess FN what! i PAY for my blue cross coverage which does NOT cover mental health. so why the f*** should a con get it for free! not to mention free healthcare! un FN believable! $15 trillion debt and growing!
Maybe you should check again...I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield and I saw the coverage on mental health services.
Unbelieveable, A person goes to jail, Does their time, no medical treatment, once released , no car, no job, no place to live , The same people responsible for this are the same ones you intrust to create jobs an turn the country around. .......... Lock your doors
If their mothers had gotten married and they had a father figure they would not be in jail.
Yea...that's the ticket.
No one is jail has an intact family. Only broken ones.
What world do you live in?
jerry all i can say is that i pity you.
Jerry...why do I get this mental pic of you sitting there in your dirty recliner with a beer in one hand and a cigarette hanging out of your mouth...maybe a swastika tattoo on your arm?
If you commit a crime, the MOST you should "expect" from jail, is a 6x6 concrete slab with bars, a toilet, sink, bread and water, and working at hard labor, 12 hours a day. If this is how it truly were, crime rate would be VERY LOW here, as it is in countries who operate in the above manner...
And in you book where does judge and jury come into the pictures , law enforcement is getting more and more comfortable with street justice and executions maybe thats what you favour , maybe we could try it on someone in your family
Like North Korea and Iran.
branxoz I could use any country in the world some have harsher sentences then we give and get better results and there are countries where far lighter sentences are given and they get better results. Because guess what we jail more of our citizens than any country in the world so compared to us any system is better. But I think most people can agree that we don't want to live in a crazed theocratic state like saudi arabia.
Healthcare is run and governed by the one percenters aka coorporations such as Koch brothers and as you know the koch brothers are currently lobbying for such things as reinstituting segregation in schools. Our healthcare is ranked pretty low in comparison with other industrialized countries, HOWEVER, we are ranked pretty highly for healthcare in comparison to some/ a few third world countries....so remain hopeful. Now, if we could undo the oligarchy system we live in we can start showing some humanity towards fellow citizens and begin to work together to improve our country's status in all areas. The key here is to get rid of the oligarchy. Stop putting up with the BS. And, by the way, start actually doing something....take action. Peaceful protest is like a non action. Think of it as: we're all sitting in a crowded movie theater. Now, to get the peoples attention, do we a) sit around peacefully protesting, or do we b) stand up ad start running around waving our hands, throwing popcorn, jujubees and sour patch kids shouting "Fire, Fire!"? Which choice would do more to get people's attention? I rest my case.
If we could get welfare queens off their asses to go to work instead of collect welfare and food stamps and section 8 housing we could afford better health care. I live close to Stanford hospital and all the drug shootings from East Palo Alto are taken to the Stanford emergency room where they rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses that the hospital has to absorb. Take all those folks to a County hospital and we could have better hospitals for the rest of us.
Tie their tubes also.
@Jerry, I thought that I read somewhere that Newt Gingrich reformed welfare, and because of that welfare and the so called welfare queens was just a code of the pass?
I'm young and do not know much about Mr. Gingrich, but I hear that he stopped welfare and this is one of his badges that he wears as honor. But even so, does helping mentally ill inmates have anything to do with welfare, just asking because if someone is incarcerated it is up to the facility which is holding them to provide treatment and does not seem like welfare.
How many Kochs are listed in the LA phone book? Don't confuse Kochs with Krocs.
I work in a california state prison, the inmates there get all the latest and greatest medications that even working people with insurance cannot afford. State employees health and dental insurance , that they pay into does not cover cosmetic dentistry but the inmates get it. I had an inmate that worked for me that had HIV and was recieving anti-viral medications and go out back to his job as an auto mechinic and violated his parole to came back to prison because his health insurance did not cover his medications and he could not afford to pay for them and eat and pay rent. these inmates put in a request to see the doctor and are seen in a few days. when was the last time you got to do that with your doctor and your insurance company??? it takes weeks sometimes to be seen.you want to see the most current psych meds, look into the prison system, and, no they are not experimenting on them, alll have been approved by the FDA and other agencies.
Finally a informed opinion, the writer of this article is engaging in sensationlism based on what sounds to me to be another botched court decision. The class action attornies who i suspect are being funded by pharmaceutical companies have found yet another way into the taxpayers pockets. Now all a felonious detriment to society has to do is claim mental illness, and he can take the taxpayer on another dance.You bleeding hearts that always find yourselves railing against the system need to stop and think first before you start tearing it down. I've worked with the criminal /mentally ill people just like the drunken theif who apparently has no accountability for his own life, when you blame the jailer with out first looking at the circumstance , your opening a pandoras box. The pricetag for Pharmaceuticals in the prison/ states mental facilities is astronomical, where i work they are not even allowed the generic brand it has to be the name brand. The facts are right there in the article dont let the writer sway you he was drunk, stealing, got arrested, got depressed ,tried to hurt himself.They did what they could to prevent him from doing it...he owes them 22 million thanks if you ask me.
I agree. I was going to say its just as hard to get care outside of prison. Unless you certified insane and get you free check. No free health care and no help if you get sick and when you do they still charge you and the care isn't always the latest and greatest.
Resource neutral event ? I live @ 30 minutes outside a major U.S. city. I don't know about other areas, physicians here can't find a psychiatrist to refer a patient to who has an opening. I have also heard of psychiatrists in my area moving to other areas where practices are more lucrative. What resources is my question. Anti-depressant use has increased 400% in the past 20 years. 23% of women aged 40-59 use anti-depressants. Some days I think we need more psychiatrists than G.P.s or...
Here is yet another conservative reality.
"Combined with a sharp rise in homelessness during the 1980s, Ronald Reagan pursued a policy toward the treatment of mental illness that satisfied special interest groups and the demands of the business community, but failed to address the issue: the treatment of mental illness".
"Almost ten years after Ronald Reagan left office as president, the legacy of his administration continues to be studied. What is almost indisputable is that the changes in public policy that were implemented during the 1980s were sweeping and marked a turning point in American domestic policy. Faced with increasing competition from overseas, American business found it necessary to alter the social contract. This would require a realignment of the political economy so as to weaken labor unions and the social safety net. In Reagan, the Right found a spokesman capable of aligning conservatives, centrists, and working class whites. With this coalition, Reagan was able to bring about a number of reactionary changes in public policy (Alford, 1988)."
And it continues to this day. Cut ANYTHING that is coneived to be a "liberal" cause or organizaton. Helping the mentally ill and that INCLUDES returning veterans, public Education, food/health care for the poor, NPR, Planned Parenthood and the list goes on and on.
But no problem with continually cutting taxes for the top 5% and Corporations. No problem with continuously passing legislation that favors the wealthy and corporations over the rest of America. No problem with ignoring the mess they caused in 12 years of controlling Congress and 8 years of a Republican president and instead having one goal and one goal only. And that of course was to do everything they could to make sure President Obama is a one term president. No problem with stacking the Supreme Court with judges that lean so far to the right their heads are scraped clean on the right side and who consistently vote in favor of corporate interests over the interests of the majority of Americans.
That is the reality.
Amen!
It's unfortunate that media "personalities" write crap like this article. The dishonesty that you display is disgusting. To suggest that that man was an "inmate" is criminal at best, the other adjectives that I would use to describe you and your article will not get posted. That man was kidnapped, and unlawfully held against his will. You media pigs turn out to truly be the 4th branch of "government". Truly the gatekeepers who guard the sheep. Your suggestive tactics do not work on me and I see right through your web of lies and deceit. My wishes for you and your family are absolutely horrific, and I will keep them to myself. GFY you lying sack of ****!!!!!
anothr insane escapee!