Why is it that parents like this feel compelled to take the lives of their children and theirs instead of just killing themselves and leaving the kids alone?

Horrible, horrible story - I hope that the Coxes are able to cope with this tragedy of the loss of their beloved daughter and grandchildren. All of these victims did not deserve to be hurt by this coward POS.

Let's see wife missing, took children out (when wife turned up missing) in freezing weather at midnight, has porn, children talking about mom in trunk, blows up house with kids in it................if it wasn't true it would be one of those made for TV movies on Lifetime.

UDunnoBro...

Totally agree.

There's not much else that can be said about this...unbelievable some people can be so damn selfish and cruel.

EVERY DAY IS A CRAZY DAY .....WHEN YOUR CRAZY.

The guy was a nut case, but that was obvious some time ago.

What bothers me is that the state of Washington wasn't even using trained social workers to supervise his kids' visits - the article says it was an employee of a company the state had contracted with.

The problem with these outsource companies is that they're frequently more concerned about maximum profits than maximum service. They hire cheap help, so there's often a lot of turnover and not a lot spent on training. Can't say for sure that's what happened here, but it wouldn't be the first time. Replacing licensed social workers with people paid like pizza-delivery boys isn't always a bargain.

Gtouch - Correction, it was Josh Powell's father, Steve, who possessed the child porn, not Josh. Not that it matters anymore since Josh performed the ultimate selfish act of child abuse by destroying his innocent sons.

My heart goes out to the Coxes and I wish something could have been done to prevent such a tragedy from occurring. What a selfish and narcissistic individual to have committed such an atrocity. If there is a hell, I hope he went directly there.

@RealAmericansFirst

Sad how many companies and government agencies outsource without auditing. It takes something like this to bring the deficiencies to light. Of course, any time someone tries to point out that outsourcing isn't a solution prior to a tragedy, we're called sore losers and/or bitter because we probably lost our jobs.

These sorts of tragedies are what happens when you remove accountability from jobs. Companies need to pull back jobs into their realm of control and stop with the outsourcing nonsense.

Really, RAF, you're going to blame the social worker? Get a grip, then get a life.

What a stinking coward. Hope he rots in hell.

The kids would have grown up with the knowledge that their dad killed their mother then himself. Possibly add to that the damage grampa might have done. You think they would have been happy, well adjusted individuals? While I'm confident his motives were emotionally self-serving, I think that ending their lives ended up being the only decent thing he did. The loss of a loved one is sad and painful to the people experiencing the loss, in this case the maternal grand parents and the uncle. However, death is never a problem for the one who died. Life on the other hand is for many a voyage fraught with pain and misery.

It is ridiculous and incompetent for the state to have taken these children to that psychopaths home for any reason. If the children said this then why the hell were the children handed over to be killed?

Maybe I'm missing something that's in the story, but the kids were starting to talk about their mom being "in the trunk". Were the police not notified of this? I would think that the kids talking like that would be enough to have reason to bring Powell in. I know it's 20-20 hindsight that's making my fingers type, and I don't know the time frame and details, but it is a question in my mind.

Mostly, I would like to convey my sincerest condolences to the Cox family. May God, with the help of your friends and family, help you through these most difficult times. It brings tears to my eyes just imagining the pain you are going through.

- Edge

Our species is wholly imperfect. I have often felt that religion began, eons ago, in part to try to understand the flaws in humanity that lead to acts like this. Our answer was evil, the devil and hell, but in truth that answer still eludes us.

Sarcastoid... Really, these children could have grown up to lead wonderful productive lives and been loved by all of their extended family.... The only reason he took them is because he's a selfish bastard who didn't want the rest of the world to know the truth... the kids could have and probably would have been just fine. With love and support, people can grow to live normal lives no matter the tragedy they've endured.....

@sarcastoid NO. Are you serious or trolling because no child is better off having been killed by their father.

sarcastoid,

I can't believe that an intelligent human being with any degree of morals would write what you wrote. If I understand you correctly, you actually think it was merciful to kill those children? You need therapy at the very least, and probably institutionalization. Children are very resilient. With love and care many children exposed to horrible experiences go on to live and grow and become happy adults. What you wrote hints of Hitler, Himler and Dietrich.

- Edge

Real

I didn't read in the article that the social worker was not trained. Quite often a private company provides better training than a government agency.

"The problem with these outsource companies is that they're frequently more concerned about maximum profits than maximum service. They hire cheap help, so there's often a lot of turnover and not a lot spent on training. Can't say for sure that's what happened here, but it wouldn't be the first time. Replacing licensed social workers with people paid like pizza-delivery boys isn't always a bargain."

That's a lot of guess work on you're part, and my guess is that you're mostly wrong.

I feel sorry for the kids, but give a big plus 1 for their father Darwining the gene pool. Sounds like they weren't going to be given half a chance to suffer from the effects of being raised by this murdering twit. I only say this after a lifetime of watching wife beaters raise defective offspring.

The controlling, manipulative personality that is behind this act would never do the decent thing and just walk away when yelling, intimidation, psychological abuse and physical punishment are available to it. If you keep hearing, "Why are you making me do this to you?" when the arguments and abuse start; without you giving prior warning of any sort, wait till the jerk is asleep, find your largest skillet, wield it with all your power starting with a good smack to the skull, take the children and leave. It's the only thing they will understand, learning that they are highly vulnerable 30% of their life and when they're passed out is a good life lesson for them.

Sarcastoid,

You ask, "You think they [the boys] would have been happy, well adjusted individuals?"

I don't know. Neither do you. People overcome the greatest of blows and people fall to the lightest of taps. The only answer to your question would have come from the boys growing up. The *only* answer. The kids would have grown up. That's all we can say with certainty.

Death is always a problem to the one who died, your stupid assertion to the contrary notwithstanding.

Lune

Sean-984657,

How can you possibly know anything about the structure of the acid that made the physical presence of these boys? Even more, how can you possibly know anything about the spirit that made the ethical presence of these boys?

You, frankly, don't know @!$%#.

Lune

Wow! The wacko nutcases really come out of the woodwork when events like this occur.

I think that ending their lives ended up being the only decent thing he did.

sarcastoid - you need help...now!!! How can any sane person say that the father did a decent thing by taking the lives of two young children? The kids were only 5 and 7 years old. How can you seriously say that they will end up like their father and didn't deserve a chance at becoming adults?

RealAmericansFirst and lj1988 - ask someone who can read to read the article to you. The boys ran ahead of the social worker just like kids will do when they are excited about seeing their parent. She is not at fault for anything. This did not occur because the state outsources these responsibilities.

"you're" a smart one, aren't you?

Jaiden-27 - what's the matter? Are you envious that Watching-404403 actually has a grasp on the proper use of the English language? He/she made a simple correction. You are the one who made a production out of it.

@RealAmericansFirst:

No where in the article does it say the worker bringing the children to their dad's was untrained. It simply says she was not an employee of the state. Believe it or not, there are more agencies out there than just the State of Utah that hire trained and qualified people to handle visitations. It is not uncommon at all (and is sometimes required) for an unbiased third party (who employs workers trained in emergency intervention situations and who deal with this every day) to be the ones to handle this scenario. This does not equate with "pizza delivery boy" status. I'd suggest doing some research before judging someone who probably knows far more about this type of thing than you give her credit for. Just becuase it all went to hell doesn't mean she was unqualified for her job - it means she was going to the hosue of a madman, and no one can be totally prepared for what that can bring.

You could tell-from day one that this psycho scumbag killed his wife-but he played the snake.

There is not much more I can say that hasn't already been written. We all know he went straight to hell.

The boys are now with their Mom again.

The Devil-1138528

It is ridiculous and incompetent for the state to have taken these children to that psychopaths home for any reason. If the children said this then why the hell were the children handed over to be killed?

Yes, exactly. If Josh Powell was considered to be mentally unstable, why didn't the supervised visits take place in a location that would have been safe for the kids, like the child protective services office? Why were these kids taken to the home from which they had been removed for their own safety? The man was a suspect in the disappearance of their mother. It makes no sense.

I found this "outsourced" Social Worker thing interesting. I am curious as to why this was done. I suppose that if it were a case of needing more case workers and using this method as the quickest way to meet the need, it might make sense. But more likely this was about cutting costs.

Outsourcing is not universally wrong and in certain scenarios it can help to quickly fill an immediate and maybe temporary need. It is also possible too, that the employees of these outsourcing companies can sometimes be very experienced in their fields. The fact is that with workforce reductions, sometimes there are skilled people without jobs who turn to these outsourcing companies.

However, I think there is ample evidence that outsourcing is primarily done to save money. States are doing it all over in an effort to eliminate their own fulltime employees who cost them more. I think we all probably have some experience with public services being farmed out to private companies. There is some misguided truism that says that the public sector can do these things better and cheaper. The reality is that often cheaper ends up costing more and rarely do the services become better, usually they worsen. We've all seen this and just seem to accept it. It is only logical that when you take relatively medium pay level jobs that require experience and knowledge and then farm them out to private companies, that in addition to real costs, also have a profit component, that something will suffer.

The sad part is that often the profit margin in these companies is pretty high. Wages and benefits they pay are low. So somehow we are expected to believe the services will be better? When you dig into these things you often find that the owners of these companies have some political connection to the politicians promoting them. Sometimes cases are discovered that are clearly illegal and at other times the deals may be technically legal, but are clearly immoral or at least inappropriate. But often we look the other way because we have some fear that it will cost us more in taxes if government performs these services. In a case like Social Workers, a lot of people look at it from the standpoint that they don't use these services, so even if it is not as good done privately, who cares, it doesn't affect me.

For the most part, when government agencies outsource, all they are doing is turning decent jobs into crap jobs and cutting the overall effectiveness of the services while filling the pockets of political cronies.

Another mythical truism is that government is always inefficient. But the thing is that at least with government, we can hold the elected officials accountable and put them out of office. When these things get privatized, we lose that direct accountability. Why we continue to accept this rampant trend toward outsourcing government services is beyond me. What we ought to be doing is throwing those politicians out of office who promote this. If there is a problem with the government services, then work to fix it. Selling it off to some private company is just shirking the responsibilities of public office.

@lj1988, the article clearly states the children ran ahead of her to the door and she was then locked out. Are you saying with certainty that this would not have happened if the worker would have been an employee of CPS? Do you know the qualifications of this contract worker vs. the average CPS employee? This has nothing to do with outsourcing or your political views. It has to do with the sick people in this world. Why do people insist on making every article political? Are you filled with that much hate?

We had a similar incident here on Friday. Sad. Can't understand how anyone could kill their own children.

http://wearegreenbay.com/fulltext?nxd_id=110902

I would never blame the grandparents for what happened, but you can bet there had to have been tremendous animosity between the Powell and Cox families these last two years. I am guessing that many inflammatory remarks were made from both sides...

And as often happens the children are used for revenge. So sad. And I imagine before all this chaos happened the Powell family "looked like the ideal American family."

I wonder when OJ-s kids will come around...remembering certain things - - "oh yeah...daddy was wearing Black Leather Gloves and he did have a knife"

hmmm....

when tragedies like this occur i really would like to believe that there is a god and these children and their mother were sent to a heavenly reward and are joyfully reunited in the arms of their savior. but i don't believe there is a hereafter and in the here and now the grandparents are going thru sheer agony. i hope those around them can provide some comfort. for me it would take being put in a coma for at 3 weeks. sometimes life is unbearable --this is one of those times.

It really is so sad for all the members of this family. Unfortunately several people are imperfect and selfish.

It's also too bad that the children died because they could have added more evidence towards the nature vs nurture debate. They probably would have been raised in a good, loving, nurturing environment on the maternal side. So if the children still had criminal behavior that would support that nurture is the predominant indicator of our behavior; whereas, if they still had criminal behavior after being raised it would lend strength to nature being what drive our behavior. Of course, then you have to factor in the pshycological impact of knowing that there mother was probably murdered by their father which would impact their behavior too. Which all means that human beings are complex creatures that can withstand horrible situations or fall at the brush of a feather; therefore, death is not the merciful option.

Seriously sad situation all the way around. Too bad the boys didn't get to experience the good that life has to offer.

This gut wrenching tragedy is the worst of the child killings by a parent ever.

Where is 'Baby Lisa"; another nutcase parent.

It seems strange that the Authorities cannot "pin" something on these Satan Parents, and lock them up..

Look at all the hell that's been done to American Children by parent killings in the last couple of years.

Why? "Serial Parent Murderers".

Ken Johnson-306874

I wonder when OJ-s kids will come around...remembering certain things - - "oh yeah...daddy was wearing Black Leather Gloves and he did have a knife"

hmmm....

OJ's kids...what a burden there is on them! They have my sympathy and best wishes. How could any man do that to his own kids, let alone the mother of his kids? That is as twisted as it gets.

This is just sad.

And Sarcastoid,

If you're trying to be sarcastic and funny, you are not.

If you really feel this way then you should not be allowed to be around children.

As a secularist, I believe the concept of heaven and hell are right here on the surface of this planet and what just happened was a glimpse of hell.

Let's see and hear more from the heavenly side.

Women have no business protecting anyone? That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Women all over the world are the main defenders of children. Most violent crimes are committed by men.

The social worker was not at fault in this case anyway, and it would not have mattered if a man was there instead. It was only by luck that the social worker wasn't killed too.

women have no business protecting anyone eh? then please, oh brilliant one, explain the mother who shot and killed an armed robber in her home to protect her infant son... explain the mothers that have lifted cars off of their children... explain the women around the world that are willing to and HAVE walked through Hell to protect their children. Hell has nothing on me when it comes to protecting those I love, and someday your life will most likely be saved by a member of the sex you belittle.

Dumbest thing I have ever heard Jabberwockyed. Let's run it your way for minute and see how it plays out though. We'll even assume that rather than being a follow the rules kind of guy, your man is a rough and tough one. Car pulls up in front of dad's house. Kids jump out before our rough and tough guy and even though he yells at them, they book it to daddy. Daddy ushers them in the house and locks the door. Our tough guy hustles it up there, smells gas, and bangs on the door to no answer. He then attempts to break the door open. While it's instant in the movies, in real life that takes a few minutes and is actually very difficult to do - even with a rough and tough guy. In under 5 minutes of pulling up to the house the house explodes. Had our tough guy somehow managed the miracle of getting inside the house by that time, it does not make the kids alive - it makes the body count one higher. The dad blocked the worker from entering not with his body but by slamming the door closed and locking it - there was no opportunity for ANYONE to grab him. Reading comprehension and common sense my friend, they go a long, long ways.

@ Kris1234-3592742

Actually they found some photos on his computer and that is why the judge last week wouldn't give him his kids back. The judge ordered him to have an evaluation done to see if he was a sexual threat to his children.

Jabberwockyed - First, I'm pretty certain a weapon doesn't care what your gender is, bullets don't discriminate - male or female they are equal opportunity killers, and that's a fact.

Second, the social worker's responsibility in this instance is to "supervise" the visit, not to physically protect. Of course, physical protection when necessary is definitely part of the job, but if the "system" really assessed those kids were in physical danger there wouldn't have even been an authorized visit.

Now we arrive at the fundamental problem, how in the world did the court authorize this visit at his home? This was the first I heard that the kids started to talk about what really happened to their mother...surely if that had been known the visit wouldn't of been allowed? And how to fix this in the future - for home visits 2 social workers, inspect the home, assess the parent's first before allowing the kids to go in? I get that they ran up ahead of this worker, but hello - that's what child locks are for, I'm sure its not the 1st time kids have been excited to see their parent(s). That being said, if he was so intent I'm sure he could of just as easily had a weapon and shot everyone, or brought one to the off site visitation. But it does appear blatantly obvious that more could/should have been done in this case, how much more warning did we need?

I do have to question the social worker not calling 911 immediately; kick in the door, break a window, do something, etc...especially if the social worker was familiar with the case there should of been an urgent response.

Jabberwockyed - surely you jest??? Sounds like you are a male chauvinist pig or maybe just plain stupid. Time you came out of the cave. 2 little boys have lost their lives at the hand of their father and your only thought is that women are incompetent??? Hope you don't have a wife. I would say you are the one that is not too bright....

Thoughts and prayers for this family....whic

oops, that "whic" above was an after thought and decided this person wasn't worth another comment. Just didn't get it all deleted

Of course the attorney for the Cox family will state that the kids were saying Susan was in the trunk. No one can refute the comments from the attorney. But if they were credible comments why weren't the authorities contacted?

I dont hold fault with the social worker (outsourced or not)...I think even a govt social worker would have had the same exact situation unfold.

What bothers me MOST - is the brother in law, of JOSH POWELL saying these kids were telling them mom was in the trunk.

It made me even more sick to read him say that all the blame lays at Josh Powells feet.

Im sorry, but everyone who heard these kids tell them that mommy was in the trunk...has these kids blood on their hands for doing NOTHING to protect them from their monsterous dad.

I would suspect, perhaps the entire powell family is diseased, apparently even just marrying in poisons your brain for life.

Truly tragic and sad...that social worker is going to harbor more guilt than the people who knew the reality and did nothing, like the powell family members.

the thinker - your reading comprehension isnt too great.

the brother in law of josh powell (not the cox family, or their attorney) said the kids were saying it to them too.

I think that makes it a tad more legit dont ya think?

Josh's final act certainly was not that of an Innocent men. It was more like that of a wild trapped animal. The noose was tightening around him and he had nowhere to go. I feel bad for those poor little kids. They must have suffered a horrible death. I hope They are reunited With their Mother in heaven. josh is certainly burning in hell!

Don't feed the trolls!

This is sad... There is hardly words to express how tragic this mess is.

Our justice system took its course and went by the book...look what happens when somethings go by the book!

Rewrite the damm freaking book..too many wacko's that are parents these days are killing children everyday!!!!

Jessica -

...lawyer Steve Downing, who represented Susan Powell's parents, Chuck and Judy Cox...Downing said. "The oldest boy talked about that they went camping and that mommy was in the trunk..."

I guess I'm not sure where my "reading comprehension isnt too great."

Josh and his father are horrible people. Too bad Josh's father wasn't in that house too. I hope the two young brothers did not suffer. The anger and hurt I feel for those sweet little boys. My prayers go out to the Cox family.

So what you're saying is that this study found that all the young men who committed suicide during the period studied were active LDS members and all committed suicide because they did not want to marry young and have large families. Ridiculous!"It is thought" is not a scientific determination. They have what is called "free-agency" and it is the individual's decision when to marry and how many children they will have. I grew up LDS but do not practice and haven't for almost 40 years. Most of the comments I find about the LDS are borne of ignorance. Live and let live...Use your energy is more positive ways. Volunteer at a school or homeless shelter...

IMO, any man who is in a custody battle for his children will be hung up and nailed to the proverbial cross. Every thing he thinks, says, and does will be percieved as evil, because even if the mother is a drug addict, alcoholic, and loaded down with mental health issues, the court will give her custody. Know it. This is true. I am a woman, a wife, and a mother of a son. The courts do stupid outlandish things to Men to make them appear that they are a threat to their children and the public at large. This guy Josh Powell is someone that none of us know. We do not know what happened to his wife. We dont know if he was pushed til he went crazy. Crazy people do crazy things, then we ask why? I think this man felt helpless and hopeless and pushed to the brink of insanity. This supervised visit with his children was just another reminder that his life would never be normal again. Men are told they have to take care of everyone financially and their job is to provide financially, only. They become a Wallet, not a man, not a person. They are nothing. We forget that we are All Animals. When cornered animals fight back. I do not condone suicide or murder or physical violence, but I do understand that men can react in a violent way when pushed too far. The Animal goes wild.

@ Sarcastoid, What Luna said was right, you dunno how the boys would have ended up if they lived. By the looks of it, they were starting to gain some of their sweet cheerfulness back, meaning they were starting to get over the tragic loss of their mother. And look how much love and support the children had. The mother's parents, aunt and uncle, all loved the children. If these children would have lived, ya never know, they could have eventually become stronger and wonderful people, that might have gotten inspiration of what happen to them and used it to help kids who are going through the same thing, as a lot of people who went through the same kind of thing have done.

But as Luna said, you dunno and neither do I, and we will never know. This story should teach people of the child safety departments to maybe think and maybe prevent such a thing from happening again. If the parent is a psychopath, I think its best to perminately take them away knowing that the parent was unstable to begin with.

Social Service caseworkers just don't care to admit when someone has obvious mental issues. Edna doesn't know what she's talking about. This should prove to her that they bend over backwards for fathers now-a-days and even are willing to over look red flags in order to give murderer's a chance. They are so willing to be pawns for others revenge and become desensitized to actual facts.

You people are being way too harsh on CPS. If the man had already spread gasoline throughout the house and was willing to kill his own sons, what makes you think a social worker (or contracted SW) would have prevented this from happening?

The only change to the scenario would be that we'd have 4 people dead instead of 3!!!

What policy change would you suggest exactly? That children are not allowed to cross the threshold of the home until the social worker is right next to them? The man probably had a lit match or other item ready to go in case that very thing happened. Do you really think having another adult physically in that house would have allowed enough time to get those children out of there? The place was going to get blown up with or without the social worker.

GET A CLUE!

Is he really dead or just made it look like he died. If he only thought of himself then why would he not just kill the kids and use someone else for his own body?

Authorities recovered two, five-gallon cans of gasoline inside the rented Washington home. Gasoline from one five-gallon can was spread throughout the house and used as an accelerant in the huge blaze. The other can was found by the three bodies, Troyer said.

BULL$H!T If there were two cans of gasoline in that fire they would have burned based on the footage of the total loss.

This whole thing is a very tragic murder of two inocent children, the father was obviously disturbed and should have been denied visits in his home with the kids. Maybe if he had to have visited the kids at a lace other then his home this would have never happened. I just wonder why didn't the social worker call the policy as soon as he shut the door on her?

What an evil parasite. He gets rid of those poor children's mommy. And when the evidence was begining to mound, he takes the lives of the children.

His father is as worthless as he was. His father engaged in child pornography and it was found when the authorities searched the home for evidence related to Susan's disappearance. Father and son are both pieces of filth. Too bad the idiot didn't take his father with him instead of those two innocent little boys.

Deepest condolences to Susan's parents and family. What a senseless loss..

Peace be with those children and hopefully they are in the arms of their mother.

And I hope the selfish scum's soul rots in pergatory for eternity.....

What an unbelievable coward. Just....a coward, ya know? If he wanted to off himself, I'm sure many of us would have been happy to hold the gun for him. But taking those kids with him...wow. Coward.

I say inject the Sodium Pentothal - screw your rights where it concerns harming others.

KIDS HEADS CHOPPED WITH AN AX = RELEASED FROM CORONER = THE KIDS HEADS WERE CHOPPED WITH AN AX = by their Evil, Monster sperm donor =

These kids suffered a horrible death = their heads were chopped with an AX by their evil monster sperm donor = they smelled the gasoline, saw their own evil monster father light the gasoline, saw the flames and was held by or somehow restrained, by the evil monster sperm donor, as their flesh burned and until they died from smoke inhalation = according to the Coroner.

These kids suffered a horrible death = their heads were chopped with an AX by their evil monster sperm donor = they smelled the gasoline, saw their own evil monster father light the gasoline, saw the flames and was held by or somehow restrained, by the evil monster sperm donor, as their flesh burned and until they died from smoke inhalation = according to the Coroner.

I am sure the kids were screaming and tried to run away = no use in sugar coating it. Ask a fire investigator how long it takes to die in a fire like this = you know you are dying and you suffer with your skin burning off of you until you do finally die.

Evil bastard would have been burned alive also = but I am sure he took pride and happy that he was killing his kids to cover up all the sexual abuse he and his father had performed on them. He probably died laughing knowing he had gotten away with murdering his wife and kids and felt he had all the power.

I just hope the Maternal Grandparent's and their attorneys get a court order and do not allow these two boys, their grandkids = funerals to be held anywhere near or with their father's = and the boys be buried no where near this evil monster.

I want to believe that Josh Powell was not a real human being.

Animals do not react like this, either.

I'm so shocked that this happened, that it seems surreal.

This is the ugliest parent genocide to a person's own family, that I've read about in my lifetime.

The Courts now have to change the Laws re: Visitation rights to see their children for a shorter amount of time in a Neutral Zone when a crime has been committed. Spousal deaths, children's deaths.

Casey Anthony killing Caylee. The Powell cruelty case overrides the cruelty she shed on her family. And we all thought that was the ultimate Crime. These killer parents need to be disposed; including suspects need to be thrown in the Sea, like Osama Bin Laden for the sharks to feed on.

Dead first.

I found this "outsourced" Social Worker thing interesting. I am curious as to why this was done. I suppose that if it were a case of needing more case workers and using this method as the quickest way to meet the need, it might make sense. But more likely this was about cutting costs.

You can't blame this social worker for this, social workers whether State employed or private are screened in the Washington and like someone said it is happening in every State. Social workers as a whole are over worked and under paid. If you want to blame the State for outsourcing, then every one in this state can be blamed a tiny bit for underfunding governement you can't have it both ways. Can you imagine what this women is going through - to smell gas and know she couldn't have done anything?

I think 90% of Washingtonians thought Josh was guilty and his father was a part of it. There is a special place in Hell for people like Josh and after reading what else happened to those kids - I can only hope its dark, hot & painful for his eternity & the boys are with their mother in lovely painless place in heaven.

Joyce:

Josh Powell got off this murder wrap/including murdering his sons very easy--easier than a lethal injection.

It is the maternal family, and possibly his Mother who are suffering in hell. Hope they survive this most crazy way of ending the search for Susan Powell. The kids went with him---it is hard to separate Heaven from Hell---What about the little boys---??---They will never know where they are.

Yes, Social Workers are overworked, and underpaid. Government employees do not make much money--- That is why many colleges have a hard time getting students to major in this field. Good, qualified ones--

This caseworker did do the right thing, and immediately report the situation---it was mil a seconds too late.

She must be feeling very, very guilty, and traumatized. The Courts have to do a better job of seeing over these kooks like Josh Powell. He did not deserve to have those kids, nor did he deserve to have visitation rights. The System is messed up.

Most of these child killers are not proven guilty, like Baby Lisa's mother still marching around, appearing on The Dr. Phil program--no reality for them, and Casey Anthony saying she is having a great time, while her daughter lives in Heaven.-

Pyschos---there's plenty of them in the US---

OK media, I think it's time to stop all coverage of this. It's sensational, it's heinous, just the sort of thing that sparks the interest of the next nut case. For the sake of the innocents that get caught in the craziness, its time to let it go.

Stop sensationalizing it. We don't need this sort of thing to spread.

Sarcastoid- Of all the stupid or mean things I read in the comments section yours just floored me. To think these children were better off hacked with a hatchet is unbelievable and sad.

Blacks and Mexicans, drive by shooting.

Latinos, passion crimes.

Whites serial killing and murdering their own families.

Muslims, blowing people up or murdering their female relatives.

What a @!$%#ed up world .

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but the older little boy reportedly said his mother was in the trunk of the car when they went on that winter midnight camping trip. He said she and his dad walked away and she didn't come back.

It sounds like Josh Powell killed his wife that night in the desert. Will the police renew their search for her body in that area?

The decision rested with the judge to grant the visitation. How anyone could conjure up any blame for this social worker is really barking up the wrong tree. She is a victum, too, because she had to witness this absolute horror of a crime. I pray God has a special place in Hell for Josh Powell.

There should be a petition begun to pass a law in the name of both the Powell children to remove children from a parent's custody if they are suspected in the disappearance of a spouse/parent of their children. There is no doubt the situation these children were living in was dangerous, but the law doesn't aways act in a "common sense" fashion. It is up to us, the people, to pressure the powers that be to pass laws to better protect children in these types of circumstances. Let's get it done!

Joyce,

Maybe you didn't read my entire post. I was not suggesting that the Social Worker involved here was at fault. The entirety of my post was focused on the fact that outsourcing, often done under the guise of saving money, most often results in a degradation of services.

The individual involved may have done their job just fine, and I'm sure that person is going through a great deal of suffering at this time, second guessing about how things could have been different.

I did try to suggest though that Social Workers require good training and experience to do their jobs well. You won't get as good services if you use outsourcing companies who pay low wages and are in the business for profit. The bulk of my post was based around the topic of outsourcing work and the fact that doing so loses something in the process.

That said, I guess I can think of a few possible ways that the kids running out ahead could have been prevented, and I suspect others could too. I would hope that procedurally, in a supervised visit the SW is expected to first analyze the situation and surroundings before allowing the visit to begin. I also know that in at least some places, supervised visits are only conducted by SWs that are an arm of law enforcement. I personally know one such individual and she gets assigned to such potentially problematic cases requiring supervision. She is authorized and required to carry a weapon. She works for the courts and is part of a division of the Sheriff's office. She is a sworn law enforcement officer and has special training in social work which is excusively the work she does. She is not uniformed, but has full law enforcement powers.

I am not saying that this would have made a difference in this case, however, if the children were not allowed to enter without the SW being right there and if the SW was capable of taking control of the situation, should it go bad, (such as by the advantage of a weapon and training), maybe these kids would have survived.

Now a lot of people might think that an armed SW is overkill, but it depends on the situation. If a visitation is supposed to be supervised, the SW needs to be able to control the situation. Otherwise, you might as well call it an "observed" visitation. Seems to me that with all involved leading up to this, a true "supervised" visitation was in order. I am not at all familiar how it works in Washington. But it seems to me, at least on the surface, that they may have some problems with supervised visitation and the rules and procedures involved. Nothing can be done today to bring these kids back, but a thorough critique of the whole process is in order and hopefully they come up with some changes that potentially prevent such a tragedy in the future.

As gruesome as this crime was, Josh Powell had to be high on drugs committing all the heinous acts..

Drug addiction has not come out yet.

This is not to excuse the POS; it is the worst parent killing (s) of all time, including his wife Susan.

Psychopath? He went over and beyond this mentally ill title.

@1Newday

“He was lying in wait, he had this pre-planned. He had everything ready to go and this was going to happen no matter who dropped those boys off," Troyer told NBC's TODAY on Monday.

Does this comment by the sheriffs department put all the outsourcing/political rhetoric to rest or is this still somehow political? Leave your agenda out of it.

My ex is an alcoholic drug addic !! i managed to get coustity of my son by the grace of god . not the grace of the judge or the social worker . i had to put my freedom at risk to keep him safe . the law is hard to convince that a mother is not worthy of visitation . the only reason i have coustidy is that she either showed up drunk high , or did not show , otherwise i would be in jail for kidnaping or contempt . my son would be dead or severly abused otherwise . really sad what happend to the mom and children . hope somebody in a similar situation gets the courage to do the right thing and protect their chirldren or grandchildern from this type of danger . BEFORE it happens !!! A POS IS EASY TO SPOT .!!!

It is so hard to understand when parents who are supposed to love and cherish their children, take their lives instead. I watched Powell giving testimony at his custody hearing. The lawyer for the parents of Susan Powell then spoke saying that the boys were beginning to talk about what happened to their mother. I saw the reaction in Powell's face. The children should have been in complete custody of the grandparents before Powell was informed they were talking. I imagine the lawyer was trying to make the best case possible to keep the boys away from Powell. However, in doing so, he may have signed their death warrant. Never should these children have been with Powell after he knew they were talking- never. The legal system let these innocent children down terribly. and it will never be undone.

DSenick.....................I soooo agree. Screw the rights of the perps...they should not have any rights!

Because you have to PROVE the person is a perp before you start infringing on their rights. While in this case it may be easier to assume guilt, in many cases it isn't so easy. Should we punish/damage children by keeping them away from their parents because we assume guilt?

The grandparents blew it. The instant one of those children said the words "mom in the trunk" they should have contacted the D.A. and requested an emergency hearing in court to keep the kids away from dad as witnesses to a murder scene. By letting them go to that visitation, somebody led those little lambs to the slaughter.

hmmmm....How do you know they didn't tell?

You are absolutely correct ! ! ! This SOB should not have been allowed to see his kids in light of everything else that was happening, BUT based on the comments from the brother-in-law, he would more than likely have gone to the grandparents home and killed everyone. There would have been even more innocent lives taken. But I tell you, there's a special place in Hell for that selfish, evil bastard.

LOL you're sick of hearing about the rights of the accused???? Really? cause I think you had something to do with it.

Jeande416,

One of the few things scarier than a man burning himself and his two sons alive is all of us loosing our rights to a fair trial. "Innocent until proven guilty" was not some weird idea that the founding fathers dreamed up. What happened is a tragedy, but don't have a knee-jerk reaction and make calls to set us back 200 years of legal progress. We've already lost enough rights lately.

I think the cops here in Washington State were trying to build a solid case against him and his dad but in the meantime, you can't deny him visitation based on that. It's really screwed up. Besides, he's the type of jerk that would sue to see his kids and then take off with them. I think the cops&state knew that. Remember that he did that crazy 'camping' thing the night she went missing. That speaks of someone who doesn't think clearly at all. I mean, if you're going to plan a murder? Who uses THAT as an alibi?

With all that was surrounding the dad they shouldn't have sent the kids to the house period. It doesn't have a darn thing to do with the gender of the worker with them, he should have had supervised visitation at a separate location - especially if both families had expressed concern he may do something like this. 3rd party visitation at a separate location is not a new concept, it simply provides more protection for the children in case the parent(s) are at risk of abducting the children or hurting them. The truth is though, we don't really know just WHAT information and concerns the family members had passed onto the authorities, what time frame had passed or what was in the process of being implements. All we really know is that 2 small and innocent children were killed by their father and that at least one person on here is a raging sexist who can't read.

lj1988 he used it as an alibli and it worked out very well for him. He never spent even 1 hour in custody. I believe he was thinking very clearly. Everyone may believe him guilty but now may never be proved.

I dont understand why the woman that was with the children called her boss to report the smell of gas instead of the police. If the guy blocked you and rushed the kids inside why would you call your boss and not 911. I am not blaming her I just think it was a bad call. The guy Obviously was a nut case. Poor babies are at least with their mom now.

I, too, am disgusted by this creature who murdered his own children. There is a special place in hell for this animal.

No. Not an animal, as animals do not murder their own children. This waste of sperm and egg murdered the mother of his children and then, his own children. What a narcissistic piece of trash.

My prayers go out to the Cox family.

This is a situation where the black and white laws don't work. Some social services have a neutral meeting place (owned by city/state) where the parent can meet with the children.

I disagree. Yes, our system is imperfect, but that does not mean the state has the ability to prevent anything bad from ever happening. That will never, ever happen. Further, it would require that judges and other officials have the ability to look into the future. Again, that is not going to happen. Ultimately, no system cannot protect us from the mistakes people make. It is part of the human condition. Yes, I am sure the judge will think long and hard about her decision, but ultimately without knowledge of what Josh would do, she had no choice but to follow the law.

My heart goes out to the Cox family. I can't comprehend the loss they have suffered at the hands of this ruthless, selfish psychopath.

I agree Mimitotwo. But the problem with the system is evident right here on these boards. I followed this case pretty closely, many people did. His guilt was so obvious, as well as his sick father's involvement. Most of us were concerned (apparently, rightly so it now appears) with getting those two kids away from both of them. The problem are the 'innocent until proven guilty' harpers. "It hasn't been PROVED yet', 'You don't KNOW FOR SURE that he killed his wife'. Unless it was the world's most convoluted and perfect frame-job, it was as OBVIOUS as the nose on your face. Okay, don't put him in prison until he's convicted, but don't take chances with the lives of kids or other innocent victims. No, the police could not charge him until they found Susan's body, and she could be buried anywhere in Utah within a range allowed by the time window. I figured that he would not have been able to dispose of the body without the kids knowing SOMETHING, but they were too young to be able to lead the police to the general area. At least they were able to communicate that she was "in the trunk" before they died. Like most reasonable people on here say now, as soon as they said that, they should never have been allowed back with this animal, supervised or not. But again, we'd have the "But he's not been PROVEN guilty yet. He has rights!" crowd to listen to. We now know where THAT led. I say in some cases (and this was certainly one) you HAVE to use your head. Would anyone stand under an overhanging boulder with a weak fault line? Would you say "Well, it hasn't fallen yet." "You don't know for sure that it will fall." You'd be right, but I damn well wouldn't take the chance. And I wouldn't have taken any chances with this fruitcake either, proved guilty in a court of law or not. And now the mistake has been made in the name of 'the rights of the accused', and it's too late to correct it.

Sorry about the rant, but on point with your comment, it's not what's wrong with our system, it's the stupidity of some people's interpretation of how it should apply on a case by case basis.

Why is it that parents like this feel compelled to take the lives of their children and theirs instead of just killing themselves and leaving the kids alone?

Killing himself would hurt no one, and that was his intent. He knew killing the children would devastate the remaining family and community. If he had just committed suicide there would have been a party.

this is horrible, horrible, the people that worked with these chidren, will be in hurt forever,my tears of such sadness, and reading, hearing about the missing daughter"s family , a bill was passed about, authorities having right to hold any american for terroisim, he should have been held in custody, by this, surely all they were notified, to have this action available, especially all that was at stake, innocent children, state,should be able to use this tool, until everything is clear and all is known, especially if they knew what was said by the boys, save society please from these hurtful, selfish people, that family was given no protection, these people that had to work on thisby this case, and law enforcement, will be traumitized by this a very long time.

steel toed boot

Your arguement is well stated, and I admit I understand. It will be interesting to see the evidence the police had against him in Utah regarding his wife's murder (and yes I do believe he did it). I believe they would have arrested him if they had a decent case against him. The police will disclose the evidence they had against him, then we will see if they had enough evidence to convict him. My honest guess is that they did not yet have the evidence they needed, otherwise he would have been arrested and extradited Powell back to Utah months ago. There was a great deal of pressure in Utah to get him convicted.

The law does not allow us to look into the future. Seeing these tragic events from the perspective of hindsight does not change that. And is it okay to strip anyone accused of any crime of their family based on what they "might" do? That is an extraordinarily slippery slope. Any person "might" do anything, where would you draw the line?

I understand the desire to blame the justice system, but we must realize that the law has limits for good reasons. We cannot expect the justice system to prevent all bad things from happening, that is a fantasy, or perhaps a pandora's box. Ultimately blame on the justice system is misdirected blame on the coward Josh Powell.

I think we all recognize that is hollow comfort knowing we can't hold Mr. Powell accountable for his actions now, nor return these two wonderful boys to their family. Perhaps that is why we choose to blame the legal system.

While I totally agree with you, Spacedude, the man hadn´t been convicted of her murder so the law´s hands were tied. It sucks.

If I were the Grandmother I would like to think their Grandfather would step up and take things into his own hands and exterminate the vermin. They might throw him in jail, but the kids would be safe.

You can't deny visitation based on suspicion of murder unless there is other evidence to suggest abuse that is compelling and proven. Innocent until proven guilty. Do I think this sucks? Yes, but if we allowed people to be denied visitation based on the fact they were accused of crimes, it would allow parents to accuse other parents of crimes while going through divorces just to force custody agreements their way.

Think about that.

Yes but until he was cleared/proven innocent of murdering their mother visitation should have been done at a supervised location. NOT his home where HE can control the environment. It is CPS's and the judicial system to make sure the children are in a safe environment. Im sure they were happy to see their father but until all is said and done... PROTECT the children.

I worked in the court for years, when it comes to kids the court can do a lot more then most people think. I have seen parents lose custody for nothing but allegations and keep custody even in clear abuse cases. For a Judge to give in home supervised visits, he must of had a great lawyer. It's really sad that these kids died that way. Rest in Peace little ones.

because unfortunately, there is a difference between "suspect" and "person of interest"... semantics really but the letter of the law has a difference between the two

Techinally, he was a 'person of interest', not a 'suspect'. Those terms have significant legal implications. Had he been a suspect, the courts may have had more authority to remove the children.

I had my child taken from me years ago by my ma-in-law. She was on the emergency list for my child's school and I was late for pick-up one day. (I had the flu and fell asleep) and she called CPS. The SW came into my home, took my child - right next door - to my Ma-in-law...

One legitimate instance, they 'councelled' me after the fact and I couldn't see my 8 year old for 2 weeks - just before Christmas. My child was right next door. 'Across the yard' if you will. After the case was proved unfounded, I got no apology and ma-in-law took the bag of my child's clothes that she had and threw it into the middle of my yard in the snow. Wow, she really cares ...

In some cases, it is very easy to have your kids taken from you with no contact - if the person complaining is a good liar or has clout - and there is nothing you can do. This story breaks my heart because of all of the things against this man, noone used common sense. They didn't with me either and MY child is healthy, active, smart, artistic, and about to get a driver's license. If they spent half as much energy on this case as they did on mine, maybe the boys would still be alive.

The problem was the high-profile of the case - the authorities didn't want to rock the boat with such a public case. If my case had gone to the media, my child would have never been gone for 24 hrs let alone 2 weeks - right next door- without a public outcry of rage. But I am a nobody, but at least I am able to continue to raise my child without incompetent busybodies (m-i-l moved away to harass her daughter and her family).

BTW She is not a biological grandma - my husband is my child's STEPFATHER. In this day and age of 'nuclear' families, some laws need to be revised...

So sorry for the rant, but it breaks my heart about those two boys...this is an extreme case and it will happen again - in different ways - there is nothing new under the sun...I love my child enough to be patient while the authorities checked me out, even though I thought they were wrong - they were trying(too hard) to protect my child - I wish all agencies were as thorough...

God bless Charlie and Braden

I so agree, but even convicted murderers have the right to see their kids ( in jail or the pen) That is just ridiculous to me. Our legal system has some stupid rules. I think once you are convicted of murder you should loose your rights to anything, especially your children.

Ummm. Sorry to hear about your problems. But this guy killed his kids. And probably killed their mother. Why are you ranting about your crap? sorry, but your kids are alive. Get over yourself.

@cmach

I was making a point about the 'fairness' of the system - the fact that my kid is fine and his - he killed. He was allowed to see his kids and he shouldn't have been...

ww. Sorry Leila..Didn't mean any offense.

Nope, she was doing what she was there to do. At least he didn't drag her into it. I can only imagine the horror she must have felt :( Why must parents take out their kids due to their own problems? I will NEVER understand. Kill yourself if you want. The children have a right to a life.

lj1988, How many mormon fathers do you personally know to make such a statement? I happen to know many mormon fathers and they are some of the best men I have ever known. The guy was crazy in the head, which does not equate to being one religion or another.

Mormons do not have a warped view of family. His religion did not lead to his actions. Obviously he had other mental issues.

Members of the Mormon faith believe "...fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families." Powell was a warped human being. Religion no longer was a part of his life - obviously, since he did not provide life nor protection for any of his family.

Josh no longer believed or practiced the LDS faith. In fact, he demanded the kids not be allowed to go to church with their grandparents while in their custody, who are active LDS. He was definitely mentally defective. Capt. Irk and others above very well stated how fathers are expected to act. My heart aches for the family left behind to deal with the unspeakable grief. Rest in peace, precious little ones.

anyone can be a father...it takes someone special to be a daddy... clearly he was not.

lj1988 - You take this tragedy and use it as a way to bash the LDS religion? The same LDS religion that centers on family values? You Sir, are an idiot and clearly do not know a thing about the LDS religion.

lis-494460-- Josh Powell was not a practicing member of the LDS(Mormon) church. As someone else commented, he had even gone as far as to demand that his sons not be allowed to attend church while they were with their grandparents.

You're a big fan of the word 'extrapolation,' eh?

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I don't see why the the social workers and/or police weren't informed of this. Blood is on the hands of the those that ignored the obvious.

• They should haver made him bring the kids to a place for supervised visitation and no been allowed to have them go to his house. LOJ usually makes supervised visitation at a court ordered location under direct supervision and never alone. The courts are at fault and so is the police for not doing their damn jobs. lawsuits are going to be or ought to be flying to prevent this form happening again. poor susan picked the wrong guy to be with, but if this retard -whomever he married, he would have done the same thing no matter what, he had a serious mental problem and was probably sexually abused by the idiot father, steven. this happens in families like this, and this is very sad. those kids-probably would have had a sad life with him being their father.

Can you make that font a bit larger?

is that all you can think to write to add to what i wrote? not very clever are you. let's stick to the story line and not strike out at what you deem to be dysgraphia. ok cookie?

Jeanette-767450-Can you make that font a bit larger?

That was very helpful. I'm a little hard-of-hearing.

is that all you can think to write to add to what i wrote?

How about this? "They should haver made..." or "...to prevent this form happening again..." or you are supposed to capitalize names and the first word of a sentence. Especially when criticizing someone else for doing something that bothers you.

You asked.

Well daryl. So you are ok with parents murdering there children? Just askin.

I am so sad at what happened. Josh Powell, I believe, will now get a worse sentencing then what he would have ever gotten here on earth. My heart goes out to the remaining families now suffering thru yet another tragedy.

To all the other ridiculous comments that had nothing to do with the issue in play, watching-404403, jimreaper- maybe you should be school teachers! Sincere people are on here to give support and share their feelings and all you can think of is a simple mistake they made while typing. REALLY!!??

RealAmericansFirst, lj1988, 1NewDay and jabberwockyed- This has nothing to do with the social worker. Trying to put blame on someone other then the actual killer, is quite a stupid comment. I'm sure she is devastated by what happen. She was doing what she was asked to do, her job. If she didn't care about the children, I don't think she would have put her life in danger by entering the home of a "person of interest". Being a girl OR guy wouldn't have changed anything. It all happened so fast. Calling her supervisor or even 911 wouldn't have helped.

Sarcastoid- YOU HAVE PROBLEMS! I feel sorry for what's going on with you.

this is sick, I hope you rot in hell josh powell!!!

your absolutely correct the cops if they were told about the conversations should have immediately put a restraining order on him and further questioned the kids, some one dropped the ball

Cops can't put restraining orders, only a judge can.

Unfortunately, there are procedures in place that take time. Just because the children started saying that "mommy was in the trunk", the police can't stop a parental visit. Josh Powell was a suspect in Susan's disappearance but there just wasn't enough evidence to throw him in jail, yet. I'm sure that they were working very hard to get it, however time ran out. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. Truth is, the family feared that Josh would do something like this and he did. Nothing was going to stop him. Not the police, not the judge and not the social worker. It's nobody's fault. This person was pure evil and if he had to take more with him to get what he wanted, he would have.

The problem lies in here, that he was suspect. No proof. So under our wonderful systems even children born out of rape are ordered to have visitation with the person who raped their mother. It's a sick judicial system that puts kids at risk every day. People with issue with CPS etc are given back visitation (Think of the child in Arizona-sorry cant' think of her name at the moment) and yet the mother once again had custody and opportunity. It just makes me sick! What is wrong with our judicial system???? Time for Americans to speak up on something important. SAVE the children.

If you don't like the laws then get involved and try to get the laws changed.

Also, in most (all?) states, funding cuts have resulted in increased work loads on social workers. They do not have the time to do real justice for the children in their charge -- yet they're the first ones to blame when something goes wrong. We're in a recession, funds are limited, no one wants to pay more taxes, but everyone expects stellar levels of service. Get involved! Write to your area politicians and tell them where you want funds spent. Write to legislators about laws you want changed. Become mentors and advocates.

CoCo 1551796: You're assuming the judge was intelligent. Most are not. Most are political hacks that get a public service job because they can't make it in private practice. My father was a lawyer (first kid in his family to go to college - Cornell Law School). He always said "If the elected judges based on merit, there wouldn't be any".

When litigants in a case screw up, the judge makes them pay for it. When a judge screws up (and they often do), the litigants pay for that, too.

I agree - If you're going to mandate visitation, esp in cases like this, wouldn't a neutral site be a better option? Somewhere where the parent/suspect doesn't have access to things that could be used to harm others.

All of this hindsight is 20/20. Even if Powell was ordered supervised visitation in a public place or office, he would have just shot everyone. This man was a monster hellbent on making sure if he couldn't have his kids, no one would. He probably thinks he did them a favor. Nothing could have prevented this monster from killing himself and his children. He just may have taken out even more innocent lives with him.

The social worker is lucky to be alive but she is probably living in her own personal hell right now wracked with guilt about something she could not have prevented.

@Jennj99738, I totally agree with your comment. Josh was going to do this no matter what. The family feared that he would and he did. No one is to blame for this except the vermin that did it.

fine, just give up protecting children all together - don't pay attention to what they say, don't report or request anything - heck don't prosecute him neither - if "he was gonna do what his gonna do no matter what" and no one could have done anything then what are we paying this people for

THEY ARE THERE TO PROTECT KIDS FROM PERVERTS LIKE THIS

they just have to pay more attention and act with URGENCY and don't forget they are holding kid's LIVES in their hand

I am sick of hearing this crap - "no one is to blame"

YES they ARE to blame, and they should have done better!

Yes, Amir, because some people can recognize that the man has not been determined in a court of law to be a "pervert," because the man seized his children, immediately hacked them to death and then lit a horrific fire, we all must want to let children die and not prosecute their murderers. /rolleyes/ What you want is to blame everyone but the murderer. I can tell that you don't have a clue about how Children and Family Services works, or how Family Court works.

Jennj99738 @ 17.3 - yeah, i thought about that too. maybe one way to deal with that is just before a visitation to the undisclosed neutral site, a police escort could do a pat-down search for weapons ahead of time.

I don't care how it works - or rather how it DOESN'T work - please don't tell me there is nothing the judge or cops could do differently - it was established already, she could have ordered visits to be in neutral place, NOT his house, and cops could have made him a suspect and arrested him before this happened - they needed "more" for prosecution? They forget who they are fighting for - for the safety of those kids and the rest of the family, not their own "success" stats with prosecution and corts

Damn those psychic cops and social workers who were off that day. They could have stopped this crime!

Uh, no. Read it again. There was no mention of Powell even having a brother, let alone that he had been told anything by the kids. There was a mention of Powell's sister's husband saying he and his wife were stunned by the news of the fire. And it was the grandparent's lawyer (mother's parents) that said that the grandparents had told him that the kids had told them that. Not very conclusive, and let's see, would the grandparents have any motivation to lie about it? You can bet they believe in their heart that Powell was responsible for their daughter's disappearance (evidence to the contrary), would they resist the opportunity to use the kids to further that? It would even be convenient, now that he's dead, to say the kids told them that even if they didn't. Since nobody is on record of hearing the kids say these things except their grandparents (who have a vested interest), it should be questioned. Seems like someone may be trying to tie it all up in a neat little package, and maybe Susan's real murderer will get away with it.

enough well, fine - it was Powell's brother -IN-LAW if you were gonna get paranoid, and as law enforcement often does, suspect people who actually report things in hopes to stop the abuse, then all you had to do is conduct an interview with child psychologist and see for yourself what the children were saying... whatever... now you gonna get off on some other outlandish theory on how he still wasn't guilty AFTER HE BLOWS HIS OWN CHILDREN UP

UNBELIEVABLE! and don't talk to me about "logic" - you're the same type of person who were asserting he really did co *CAMPING* that night

@Enough-2735007: Your post is the most well-written, well-thought that I've seen so far. The grandparents stated that the kids were happy with them and showed no desire to see their father; Judy Cox stated that she had finally convinced the kids to visit their father; yet, when the social worker arrived at the fathers home, the kids apparently ran to the house to see their father. Doesn't sound like the boys had any problem with visiting their dad .... quite the contrary. And everything the grandparents have stated is pure hearsay. Thank you for a very intelligent post.

Kids that young ,just like to go, doesn't mean they wanted to stay with him. My little grand kids are very happy to GO to the Dr until they figure out what they are there for . Kids just like to be included in going anywhere.

single mom, agreed. Kids don't want to leave the fun they're currently having (playing with their cousin), but when they already have, they're eager to go to the next fun or good thing (unfortunately they thought it was dad in this case). Grandma and grandpa's story is totally believable to me. And I'm sorry (to everyone else who thinks Josh might have been setup, framed, etc.), I still don't believe that the pressure of not seeing his kids (on a completely innocent man) would cause him to MURDER them, without having some kind of mental issue anyway. An innocent man would have undergone the evaluation, having the hopes in his innocence, to get his kids back. On my darkest of days, I could NEVER harm my children that way.

fear and suspicion are not convictions and fact. There is a difference in a court of law. What you can conviction him of in the press does not meet the burden of proof in a court of law. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand?

Do I think this sucks? Yes but stop asking the same questions over and over again when they've been answered in this thread.

convict him of... not conviction him of... argggh

Is it really needed to correct someones grammer?? Is that the problem? Focus on the real problem!!

@JPKL-- lj1988 was correcting his/her own misspelling. I think that's allowed. I yell at myself, too, when I make a mistake.

that's where the rules need to be changed though - how many other innocent children, women, men do we have to loose before there are rules set in place to protect them in cases like that?

and no - I am not saying everyone who is suspected should go to jail, but given the number of cases like this, may be there have to be rules that would give more flexibility to act FASTER on new information, and have more leeway on how the visitation is set up

just today I saw a mother punching her 6 y.o. daughter in the face - called the city, then the cops for the fear she would leave before I get through all the "thank you for calling the 311 was through in my way - so called "hot line"

anyway, the cops show up and say the daughter is not bleeding so IT'S OK! o_O Basically, they are implying I AM LYING. Yeah, I am gonna go do my chores and just randomly call on some woman and accuse her of child abuse while I am at it! The poor girl was so SCARED of her own mother!!! And there is NOTHING I can do. Then all this people are talking about legal system - lots of stuff in it doesn't work, especially when it comes to domestic violence and we FAIL the children that are unable to protect themselves. It's appalling and we HAVE to do more, status quo be DAMNED!

I am just putting it here to illustrate the point: often child "protectors" fail to use common sense and just will do what is easiest for them - then rationalize it with this "legal" blah they have been so well trained to churn out

My co workers 4 year old nephew was left in such a home, the child protective services had been called into the home 58 times over a short period of time and this poor little angel suffered terrible things, hair being pulled out by clumps, cigarette burns, broken bones,cuts, but still was left in this sick environment. until they finally succeed in killing him. Something has to be done, victims must have more rights.

Oh, God - how very sad :( I believe this just based on what I have seen so far... And these "kind" people here are gonna go ahead and excuse everyone who is in charge of protecting kids over and over just based on some "theory" in their poor confused heads... What's it gonna take for these folks to wake up?

??????????????? Lay off the drugs.....Your brain cells are suffering!

According to you everyone is scum. According to the article, multiple sources confirm the kids were verbalizing the events of the evening their mom disappeared. I don't know what custody rules the grandparents violated, and how do you blame Powell's sister and brother in law. Did you really read the article?

You are wrong and clearly scum.

The social worker should not be blamed for this. She was only doing her job. It wasn't her fault that the kids ran into the house and the father locked the door on her. Even if she called the police immediately, it would have been too late. I'm sure she's suffering enough right now.

There is no one to blame but Josh for this act of selfishness. Even if they had met at a public place, he could have hidden a gun somewhere and taken out, not only his sons, but other innocents as well.

It's a shame that visitation was allowed, especially since he was supposed to be evaluated for psycho-sexual issues, but the social worker was supposed to be there during the visitation and Josh locked her out.

You are ill

Dennis - you are outside of your mind. Collapsing your idiocy now . . .

RAF-How do you know the social worker wasn't trained? I am a psychiatric nurse who has worked with many social workers. They are always trained, they don't always have a lot of experience, but they are always trained, they have a 4 year degree. How that social worker could have prevented a previously planned murder/suicide? Impossible. That guy had every thing set up before he went in there, and then, when he didn't anticipate the horror of his sons burning to death, he decided to hit them with a hatchet, again, not something the social worker could have planned for...This is one of the most horrific crimes against children I have ever been aware of.

I think the hatchet was a part of the original plan because there was no time to run and grab it - it had to already be there - that makes a terrible story that much worse...

I agree with you here. She should have called the police. Obviously, no good would have come of it. Once you can smell gas... it's done.

sadly it does not sound like it would have made a difference if the police or fire department were called, it sounds he had the explosion rigged already...

Apparently she called 911 immediately after being locked out and tried to force her way in.

Did you actually read the article? She DID call for help as soon as he blocked her from entering the house and she smelled gas.

The only thing that really surprises me is that he didn't just let her in and kill her too. That would have eliminated one last witness and it all could have been a 'tragic accident.'

Wow, Franklin! Have another spoonful of of mysogyny, I don't think you're quite full yet.

With all of the red flags on this guy...wife disappearance, taking the kids out camping in the freezing cold...porn at grandpas...why were these visits supervised at HIS house? Seems to me, supervised visits should be at the inconvenience of the partent getting to visit the kids. Visits should have been at a protected location, not his time bomb house!

Wow, people, we are going to blame the social worker? Are you f-ing kidding me? Yes, you are all probably very capable emergency responders, maybe some of you even know CPR. But, now you are experts on emergency situations? Doubtful. This situation was pre-planned. He walked in there and blew up his house, he locked the kids in and he locked the social worker out. As a person who works with the SPMI, (Seriously, Persistently Mentally Ill), which I think this guy was, there was no way the social worker had any way of preventing this. I'm sure they are devastated. Social workers, by law, in my state, at least have to have a Bachelor's degree. So for anyone to say they aren't trained is a lie.

obviously, satan roams this earth as we have been warned, yet i know Jesus is holding those two beautiful boys at this moment in time, surely they are at peace.