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Subscribe to RSSEmergency call logs show that nearly eight minutes elapsed between when a caseworker called 911 to report that Josh Powell's children were in danger and when sheriff's deputies were dispatched, and it took another 14 minutes for a deputy to get to the home.
The Associated Press obtained the logs Wednesday night under a public records request.
Recently released audio tapes of the 911 calls raised questions about the dispatch center's handling of the caseworker's calls, which detailed that Powell, the husband of a missing Utah woman, had locked her out of the house during what was supposed to be a supervised visit with his two young sons.
Minutes later, Powell torched the home, killing all three.
The recordings showed that the officer who took her call at the 911 center engaged in nearly seven minutes of questioning that ended with him saying he didn't know how long it would be before a deputy could respond.
The audio didn't make clear when the deputy was dispatched. The logs show that apparently happened about a minute after the call ended.
It wasn't known if a quicker response could have saved the boys, who had also been attacked with a hatchet.
Social worker's 911 call released in Powell murder-suicide
It took almost two minutes from the start of the call for the dispatcher to learn Powell's address and more than three minutes to understand that caseworker Elizabeth Griffin-Hall was there to supervise a child custody visit. Near the end of the call, she asked how long before officers could get there.
"I don't know, ma'am," he said. "We have to respond to emergency life-threatening situations first."
She responded: "This could be life-threatening ... I'm afraid for their lives!"
The agency that runs the call center said it would review the matter and start a disciplinary investigation if necessary.
The call from Griffin-Hall went to a communications officer at the Law Enforcement Support Center in Tacoma, NBC station KING 5 of Seattle reported. Here is part of their exchange:
"I'm on a supervised visitation for a court ordered visit, and something really weird has happened,” she says.
The officer needs the address. Elizabeth struggles to find it.
One minute, 24 seconds in: "But I think I need help right away … he's on very short leash with DSHS and CPS has been involved and this is the craziest thing ... he looked right at me and closed the door.”
For the second time, Griffin-Hall identifies the man as Josh Powell. She's heard the kids crying. Less than two minutes have gone by. She sounds calm, but concerned.
"And I'd like to pull out of the driveway because I smell gasoline and he won't let me in," she said.
Officials: Powell children had head and neck wounds
The next minute is a confused exchange between Elizabeth and the officer. He asks whose house it is. He doesn't seem to understand what she means by a supervised visit. He doesn't recognize who Powell is.
Three minutes in, the situation is becoming clearer, but there is still no sense of urgency.
"Okay, so you're supposed to be there to supervise Josh Powell's visit with the children?"
"Yes ... that's correct ... and he's the husband of missing Susan Powell, this is a high-profile case.”
The officer asks again for his name -- how to spell it, what he was wearing.
Griffin-Hall's been on the 911 call over six minutes -- she's still not sure when help will arrive.
Griffin-Hall: "Okay, how long will it be?
Officer: "I don't know ma’am ... they have to respond to life-threatening emergencies ... life-threatening situations first."
Griffin-Hall: "Well this could be life-threatening!"
She hangs up and a short time later, the house erupts into flames. She calls again as she hears fire engines approaching.
“And he blew up the house and the kids!” she said.
Officer: "The kids and the father were in the house?"
Griffin-Hall: "Yes!"
This article contains reporting from The Associated Press and NBC station KING 5 of Seattle.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
Leave a Comment:
Just think what might have happened if they were able to get that out right away and a responding unit had been close by. So sad. It probably wouldn't have helped, but I guess we will never know.
Shelia - sadly, if the various services had been parked across the street, once he had slammed the door in the social worker's face, Powell needed tenths of seconds to begin his torment. This was well planned out. The events so horrific as to give all sane people pause - did we...should we...could they...why didn't they.. No answers will change these events tho prevention of a repeat is the absolute goal
Bottom line - from start to finish - this entire process was aimed directly for horrific disaster. Powell was clearly unstable, the court allowed supervised visits in his home, a missing and presumed murdered wife, young children uncomfortable with a visit to their father, Powell's own father arrested for possession of child porn, etc. Powell was about to begin rigorous mental testing himself. There is blood on many a hand.
These poor boys - they never had a voice - they never had a chance. Everyone has paid a price for this bastard's hatred.
Looks like that dispatcher will be seeking new employment.
John at #1.2 - And the caseworker. Once she called 911 she could have identified the address and expected action needed, whether police, fire or ambulance and why, and her credentials in less than 30 seconds. I agree with Sheila & PJ, but listening to the tape it sounded like the caseworker was just rambling about somehow wanting backup and not that it was an emergency. I'm not blaming either person because they'll be haunted forever and I wish them the best.
John - That's very unlikely. There are too many cases where 911 dispatchers engage in inane questioning very much like the transcript above and nothing happens to those operators.
The fact is that they didn't know that he was planning to do anything like that... so it wasn't a rush emergency, or so they thought.
These aren't "inane questions" being asked by the dispatcher. They're vital information that the officer enroute can use if he has it when he arrives on the scene. As an officer myself, I can tell you that a dispatcher who gets minimal information and sends an officer to a call isn't doing their job and is potentially putting the officer's life at risk. All of those "inane questions" determine how many officers respond, how quickly they respond, and in what manner they respond tactically to the scene.
Also, there seems to be an assumption that the questioning and the dispatching of an officer would have to be a linear series of events, one after the other. In reality, dispatchers frequently keep callers on the line, getting more information and relaying it to the officers already enroute.
Finally, it sounds like the social worker made alot of assumptions in her call to 911. She shouldn't have assumed that the dispatcher knew who she was, where she was, or the situation surrounding the father, children, custody, and his background. Custody disputes are extremely common in law enforcement and are rarely considered emergency calls. Most don't end like this one did. She should have relayed the extreme circumstances to the dispatcher so he could prioritize it as a potential emergency and get the right units on the way quickly.
"We have to respond to emergency life-threatening situations first."
Donuts. Ya gotta love the arrogance.
OUTSOURCED CALL CENTERS handle the majority of Police, Fire, Rescue, emergency calls in the USA unless you live in a village or small town.
GO TO TMZ dot com and listen to the emergency 911 call made for medical emergency recently for DEMI MOORE and listen to all the crap this dispatcher asked and how long it took before they dispatched any emergency help at all =
and Demi Moore was unresponsive at times during emergency call = and SHE IS A LOVED, WELL KNOWN MOVIE STAR = so how do you think you would be treated.?
Even this LA Emergency Dispatcher told the caller that they called the wrong emergency agency and he would transfer the call to the correct one = only to be told by the other city dispatcher that DEMI MOORE lived in the LA emergency area. NOW = HOW STUPID WAS THIS DISPATCHER = DUH.
PEOPLE NEED TO BAN TOGETHER = and get these centers outlawed and force Emergency Agencies to go back to having their own dispatch offices and employees = and ALSO including any and all Federal and State Agenices including all Child Protective Service Agencies = and to hell with saving money on salaries, benefits, insurance and retirement plans = the reason for outsourcing to start with.
READ MY STORY BELOW ON HOW DISPATCH, RESCUE EMERGENCY EMPLOYEE'S CAUSED THE DEATH OF OUR PARENT = and what I did about it =
First you get a non law enforcement, non emergency worker who asks you what emergency is = police, fire or ambulance is asked in area where I live. You say police then they transfer you to another non emergency worker who asks you if it is an emergency or other call.
And if THEY THINK IT IS AN EMERGENCY = they say you need to answer their questions and start reading from a prepared list of questions = and tell you that you are required to answer them = before they can dispatch help to your location.
The Main - Fire Rescue Station = is within 1/2 mile from my parent's home but it took them 30 minutes to get there =
when I said = emergency = help = my parent is dying = please send rescue immediately to = such and such = and gave out address = as fast you can - and they started asking me all these questions = I told them to go to Hell and get help here now and hung up the phone.
In my State, the Law is that all = 911 Police, Fire, Rescue dispatchers must do an immediate call back if phone is hung up for any reason, even if a wrong number = and if no answer, they must send Police and Fire Rescue their immediately.
So of course, I never answered the phone when they did the call back = mainly because I was doing CPR on my parent and I wanted them to send help instead of asking all the questions from their sheets.
Rescue gets there and the Lead has a notepad and pen out and wants me to answer all kinds of questions = parent's age, sex (No = according to them = they can not look at person and tell a man from a woman or a baby from a grownup = not part of their procedures), list and hand them all medications parent takes, etc., when problem started, were they in pain, etc. time when they ate and drink last and what they ate and drank = and it goes on and on.
Being ex LEO (law enforcement officer) I know their dumba$$ drills and had the door locked wide open for them and when they came in - I said = please go and take care of my parent now = and my other parent and I are not answering any questions = here is all you need = and handed them a typed written paper of all meds, including vitamins, aspirin, and any other supplements, over the counter meds, etc. and parent's driver's license and told them to take it all with them and I would get it all back at hospital when I arrived after them = and they already had all information in their County Computer System.
Of course all they wanted to do was stand there and argue and scream that they were the boss, not me or my other parent = and they were inside parnt's home = and said they have to personally be handed any and all bottles of medicines - RX and over the counter, aspirin, vitamins and supplements and they have to write down all the Information = name, dosage amount, how often you take, date it was filled, Dr. who ordered it, pharmacy name and phone number, etc. and count how many are in bottles, etc.
THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHVT = and NO ONE needs to answer them. This was a DIRE EMERGENCY SITUATION and all they wanted to do was dick around with paperwork and prove they were the boss.
PLUS = they had been at this home 3 times in last 6 months when this same parent was conscious; but in distress; and had difficulty in telling them all the information they required and they told my parents then that if they did not get all their questions answered = then they would not transport them to hospital. Well this same parent told them at those previous times = then quit talking and listen, write it all done this one time and you will have it in your computer and I will never give it to you again and I do not want my spouse or child (me) to ever give it to you again. They LIED and said, once we get it all this time, you are correct, it will be entered into the computer system and no one will have to ask you for it again.
Rescue Lead spent 45 minutes getting all information on their sheets that first time = and of course I also knew it was all entered into the County Fire Rescue Computer and they can bring it up anytime they want to on the computer in all of their vehicles.
And all hospital needs is vitals on patient to give directions on what to administer in ambulance as they (doctors in ER) make their own assessments and decisions once they see patient. This first time, after 45 minutes, this parent got up with help from my other parent and said they were leaving and told their spouse to drive them to the hospital and for me to throw these idiots out of the house and lock up and drive to hospital.
Rescue had to literally follow my parents outside and beg them to let them transport them as they would get their quicker = plus they wanted the $1,000.00 transport fee to go the 15 miles. So my parents both got inside the ambulance = on their own power = and I locked up home and drove myself to hospital.
IT IS ALL A POWER PLAY WITH THESE FIRE, RESCUE, POLICE, DEPUTY A$$HOLES. The next 2 times they came, not including the last time = Lead Rescue said same thing - they needed all questions answered, must see and read and write down all info from any meds, vitamins, etc.
Now = Back to this last time I had called them = for immediate Help =
I told them my other parent and I was going to carry this parent out and put them in van and drive them to the hospital myself and for them to get the hell out of my way = and my parent and I started to do just that. I told them to lock doors behind them when they left.
6 Rescue - Fire employees still just standing in the living room and not one had gone back to the bedroom to check on my parent = so I headed back there where my other parent was also.
The Lead Dumba$$ yelled = the Police is on their way and they will not allow you to leave with your parent = and I will block your way = then I yelled back that I was ex LEO and I knew the State Law better then they did and I was withdrawing my request for Help = which is all you have to legally tell them = and I was both parents Legal Representative, Power of Attorney and Medical Directive Representative (which was all covered in the Power of Attorney) and they needed to get the hell out now as my other parent and I was coming out of bedroom with my dying parent.
When my parent and I started carring my dying parent = the Lead had just started to walk back to the bedroom area and said Holy Shvt as soon as they saw the dying parent = and told us to let them take over = DUH they finally saw how Severe the situation was. So my other parent and I immediately moved out of the way and let them put this parent on gurney = while Lead is now screaming into radio for Deputies to hurry and get there as they need LEO Escort to clear their way in front of them to get to hospital quicker because residents had held them up (meaning my other parent and I).
My other parent was in shock and I walked them out to Ambulance and told them to get in and ride with this parent and told Resuce personnel to check them out also = and I would meet them at hospital.
48 minutes from first call - they were finally taking parent out of home. 1 hour and 10 minutes later they are unloading parent at hospital where it took them 10 more minutes to get inside and to a room and get hospital employees there.
MY PARENT DIED shortly after I arrived; which I was right behind ambulance with a second Deputy in vehicle behind my parent's and we were all driving fast as road was a straight one to hospital. Thank God it was 3 am and maybe 5 cars on road the entire way. But I had to park in assigned parking lot and walk up hill to ER entrance = which I avoided and went straight in to emergency personnel entrance only = button is always up about 7 ft in air on side area of one door.
My 83 year old parent told the Trauma Doctor and team how we were treated and how long it took Rescue to get there and they refused to even go to their spouses side in bedroom for over 10 minutes till we started to carry them out ourselves = this Doctor later cussed them all out because he said my parent would have lived if they had got there just 5 to 10 minutes earlier.
We never sued because it is hard to win a lawsuit against any Rescue, Fire agencies in our State as they all lie on why it took them so long to get there.
But with ex coworkers and friends still in LEO = I found out a few months later that these Rescue DumbA$$es were all up, dressed and ready to go; but playing cards when my emergency call came in = not like they were asleep and had to get up, etc. Their time in that type of situation to get in vehicles, out of station and on road is mandated at less then 10 minutes and less than 5 minutes to door of my parents. Not the 30 minutes it took them.
I already had gotten copies of 911 call and all other calls from time they received call at Station till they left hospital = scanned them = along with all photos and video I took with my cell phone = all into my computer and started a Blog about how BAD the Emergency Services are where I live. Which is all owned and run by the County I live in. And telling anyone reading it to be sure and check out the Laws of their State regarding Emergency Personnel and Vehicles.
Within 3 days, County Attorneys called my unlisted number - which they got from same Emergency Services and Sheriff's office, etc. and threatened to sue me = (which is against the Law in our State) and I told them to bring it on, laughed and hung up. This way I would not have to hire an attorney as I knew one would volunteer as soon as it hit the local newspapers, etc. Which I called local paper = and of course they would not run the story =
so I paid $250.00 for an Ad to go on back of newspaper front section and put my Blog address, email address and a phone number of a new cell phone I bought just for that purpose, etc.
The emails and calls came in like crazy that first day paper came out = all on my side of course = and I gave everyone who called = the phone numbers to the = County Attorney's office, Sheriff's Non Emergency Number, Main Fire Rescue Station Non Emergency Number that their mistresses, booty calls, etc. use to call them on and Phone Number to Newspaper Editor's Office and told everyone to please call all of those numbers and complain to them.
Next day, County Attorney's and all others are calling me = I answered no calls and just called and emailed my new, free attorney's office and told them. All of these other idiots were told by our attorney not to call me again or show up at homes = and to go through our and our parent's attorney only.
I Blogged about it every day as I sat with my grieving parent and included photos of my dying parent that was taken while I was doing CPR and the video I took with cell phone = of my other grieving parent begging with Rescue to please go back and get spouse and get to hospital now.
Photos are very disturbing to say the least = especially of video taken = with my parent holding their spouse of more than 60 years in their arms and screaming for help and not one Rescue employee in room and I also took video of clocks on walls, etc. to show the time and of Rescue when they finally walked into room and of Lead yelling out Oh Shvt, and them all getting in panic mode.
Our attorney asked us what we wanted, money wise, etc. and we said no money, just any thing he wanted to charge since they would be paying and he said nothing (and he also did not take one penny = but got a lot of new clients).
BUT we wanted all Rescue personnel involved, the 2 dispatchers who handled call and 2 County Attorneys who threatened me = FIRED immediately with no benefits of any kind and no retirement of any kind and they could not work in same job or similiar job anywhere in State of Florida duirng their lifetime.
Otherwise we, my parent and other sibling and I all wanted = a monetary amount no lower than = all of their yearly salaries combined, plus all of their State 401K retirement plans amounts balance along with what the State would pay if they were allowed to resign first and receive the State money combined;
plus the exact amount of their medical, life, disability, dental, etc. insurance maximum amounts of policies for each combined; along with total number of days a year for all of their combined = sick days, vacation days, etc. including same in all overtime they worked the past yeaer; plus whatever the Judge would award us for pain and suffering, etc. with no trail by jury - buy judge only (since I knew we would do better with Judge as they had to follow State Law, where Juries do not know the Law and usually screw everything up and give poor judgments, etc.). Our State Laws requires the payment of 3 times the amount of any award for pain and suffering and it can not be appealed, etc.
and we demanded a written offer of settlement with witnesses and notary public signatures, etc. delivered to us personally by our attorney in 24 hours or less from the end of this phone call. Our attorney laughed and said, well I can tell you right now, we will be going to trial and our parent said, fine, I am ready as I agree with and want everything this child just stated and that is what all three of us previously agreed on and want.
I immediately put it all on my blog = which now; 6 months later = I was getting over 400,000 views a week (this was before Twitter). And my attorney had agreed that I could announce that I would be scanning in any and all correspondence and legal papers so anyone reading could use same if they had this type of problem - just depending on what their State Law was and an attorney in their State could help them with that if they could not or did not want to look it up on the Internet.
Our attorney emailed me the Offer he had written up for our approval just 2 hours later. I emailed back and also called and said we all agreed. He emailed it to County Attorneys and the 3 of us went out to eat. I guess knowing I was ex LEO and the City Attorney where I had worked was also the attorney who volunteered his services to us (as he was retired from City, so no conflict of interest, etc.) = because a counter offer was emailed to our attorney 2 hours later = less than 5 hours from start of the 24 hours =
They offered $450,000.00 cash only = with no firings and all attorney's fee and costs paid. (that would be $150,000.00 each along with attorney paid. Our attorney called me on cell phone to advise us when I did not answer his email and said he was shocked they offered so much up front and what did we want his response to be on our behalf. I let my sibling and our parent tell me what they wanted to do = and they said they wanted all of those involved fired , etc. or we would go to trial before a Judge. Because, in our opinion, those employeess murdered our parent and other parent's spouse of over 60 years. So that was fine with me.
Offer went back to County Attorney's and they said they were taking it to trial. Which I and my sibling both knew was a bad idea because of the shape our parent was in. A month later we are all 3 in court with our attorney.
Within 30 minutes of listening to BS and that our dead parent was old and they were expected to die at that age = our parent there, passed out and we thought had died as they did not respond. Sibling started screaming and County Attorney came up behind me, yelled at me to move and jerked me around by my shoulder - which is Assault and Battery - so I knocked the living Shvt out of him and told Judge I wanted to press charges and wanted them arrested.
Judge ordered him to be arrested for assault and battery on me and assault causing a medical emergency against an elderly person, our parent. Emergency personnel located at the Station there at the Courthouse arrived shortly and loaded up and transported this parent and my sibling to hospital. I stayed as I would also drive vehicle back. Judge asked if I was ok to proceed for a couple of minutes; and I said yes. This Judge said that he advised the other County Attorney's present to re-consider our offer and gave them till 9 am the next day to respond.
Before 4 pm that night, our attorney called my cell phone; as we were with our parent at hospital and would be there till they were released; which would not be till next day at earliest. We were told that all others, except County Attorney's would be fired by County. We said no deal and now County had to pay for parents medical bills, etc.
By 9 pm our attorney called and said we had our deal. 14 people would be fired immediately and not be able to ever work in that same job or a like job in State of Florida for their lifetime = and County would pay for parent's full medical bills, etc. as long as we signed papers we would not sue for pain and suffering, etc. regarding any matters with parents and County employee's. We told our attorney that we agreed and he delivered signed offer contract before midnight that night that we also had to sign in front of witnesses and notary public; which we could not do until notary was back on duty the next day.
Both dispatchers were fired, 8 Fire Rescue employee's, both County Attorney's who threatened us and the one who assaulted me and our Father in Courtroom and the other one who cussed at my sibling and I. And Order stated none of these fired employee's could contact us in any manner,way or media or else spend 5 days in jail for first offense, etc.
We felt we got justice. Our surviving parent died exactly 1 year later on the exact day of our other parent's funeral. My sibling and I agreed to wait five (5) hours after their death before I called 911 = State Law here and in most States require 911 to be called immediately when a dead body is found because they want to charge you for doing life saving procedures = CPR = the way they do it = which will break the ribs of most people over 60 according to medical professionals, using paddles on them which will burn their chests, and of course for transport fees to hospital.
Within 15 minutes, I called a childhood friend who loved our parents and was also a Dr. and he said by Law we are suppose to call 911 as soon as we know anyone is in distress and or dead so there is no question as to any foul play etc. I said OMG you have to be kidding me and he said no because they then usually have to do an autopsy to make sure the person was not taken out by anyone with access to that home (killed). I said Ok but we were not going to do it.
After 5 hours, I called our parent's private physician and he first asked if we thought for that our parent was deceased and I said well it has been 5 hours and he then asked for when we thought time of death was etc. and we said exactly at such and such. I said we just wanted to spend a few hours alone with them because once 911 was called, it would be a circus again and our parent would be taken away and we just were not ready earlier and we did not want them to do CPR and use paddles on him even when he had a DNR. He also explained that we needed to call 911 soon and tell them to call him as he will tell them that he knows what the cause of death was and that he was going to sign the death certificate. He said that is all they need to know and that they should not do anything because they will be able to tell that our parent has been deceased for some time now.
Next I called our attorney and told him. He felt bad as he had always loved our parents and was their personal attorney for over 38 years. Then I told him the time our parent died and he almost passed out. He said it would be best if we called the Funeral Home first and got them on the way to pick up the body and that way Rescue would not demand that they transport to the hospital to get that $1,000.00 fee paid since they knew our parents had great insurance. I told him our Dr. had said the exact same thing (which he also did).
So I called the Funeral Home Director and he said he would send them out immediately and call the Sheriff's dept for me to advise them to send an officer out = because an officer has to be present before a deceased body can be removed from the home and to pick up andy and all medicines. He said that Resuce might still require a corner be called, etc. so for us to be prepared for that. Then he asked if I was sure our parent was deceased. Again, I told him the time of death and he gasped and said = Oh No, Fire Rescue is going to tear you apart and to call him back and let him know how it went.
So I then called 911, almost 6 hours after our parent passed away. I was nice and said I need Rescue to show up whenever they decide to. Of course they asked why and I said because we found our parent dead and was told by our parent's doctor that we had to call 911. The questions stopped and Rescue was here in 6 minutes.
This new Lead was very nice and said by our State Law they still have to try and revive the deceased person to make sure they are deceased and that way they do not have to call a cornor. I said well wait till you come back to the bedroom and see what you think then because we know exactly when he died because my sibling was right beside of him. Well this Lead said they were just going to feel their arm and we said that was OK. The Lead told the crew that no life saving measures would be performed because he had been deceased for many hours.
The Funeral Home people showed up and then the Deputy came in. There were no medicines, etc. and this guy told us he was terrified of dead bodies who just up and died in their sleep at their home so he did not even walk back and look at our parent. But Deputy had to and did, really quick; and said that he released the body to the Funeral Home people and he got outside really quick. Rescue employees left room and let the Funeral Home people put our parent on their gurney and all.
We told them not to cover our parent's head up until they unloaded them at the Funeral Home and they said ok. We walked along side and up until our parent was placed inside the hearst. We were so exhausted and sad that we went back in and took a nap for a couple of hours before we went up to Funeral Home to sign papers.
THAT IS A GREAT THING TO KNOW AND REMEMBER = that it is Federal Law that Rescue decides that they have to do life saving procedures on dead people. We did not know that and just wanted to spend time alone with our parent till we were ready. Now it turns out, it was best we waited so they did not break their ribs and cause internal bleeding and burn them with the paddles, etc.= we just did not want it done.
PEOPLE - you can not back down and you can sue for money along with other demands, if you want; when same thing happens to you; which unfortunately = probaly will.
Thank you for your time.
Too long, did not read.
holy crap, someone has a lot of time to write a book. good Lord woman!
1) aint nobody got the time to read all that
2) dang woman, seriously
3) there should be a limit to how long a comment can be, good Lord
I'd like to know where we take the Mindreading 101 class. There was no way to know what had been planned. There was no way to know that both kids were probably killed as soon as they walked through the door. There was no way the caseworker could have prevented what happened (and she was darned lucky to have not been murdered, too). The 911 Dispatcher did the required job of getting the information, address, etc., but could not have known that the monster had beat his kids in the head with a hatchet, and they were already dead. The police can only drive so fast to get to a scene where everyone (inside the house) is already dead and on fire. The only way to know all of this is through mindreading. Let me know when the next class is set up, I'm sure most people would love to take it. I know I would.
(I'm not defending any of the people involved in this horror. What I'm saying is that time was immaterial unless the police were there at the very moment of the actions. Three minutes might sound like a long time, but it's really extremely short. Take a walk around your house, one lap, time it. See how long it takes. Arm-chair quarterbacking this tragedy does nothing but play into trying to blame someone else for the actions of this one vile man. Nothing could have been done.)
THE WAY IT IS - No, she is just another druggie who put her own life at risk.
What's with all the equal signs in your post?
THE WAY IT IS: Wow, have you thought about starting a blog because no one in their right mind would read all of what you posted. I didn't even read the first sentence and was amazed that this web site had enough "memory" to hold that ridiculously LONG diatribe. Maybe if you started your own blog, people that are interested, or even cared, about what you are rambling about, would read it. I wouldn't.
The caseworker wasnt acting like the kids were in danger...she acted like it was no big deal really... like she wanted back up....la la la....is the dispatcher supposed to read her mind??
To save those kids - the police would have to to be sitting in the driveway when the 911 call was made and kick in the door guns blazing. But then I'm guessing people would have complained "why didn't they tazer him instead?" or "tazing him was going too far, he didn't have a gun they could have just asked him politely to drop the hatchet."
Knowing how Powell spells his name is not vital information. The dispatch should have happened as soon as the address was given to them. The only thing they need to know is who is in the house, are they armed and a brief background on the situation in order to justify treating it as an immediate threat AND provide their officers with the protection they need.
These details could have been gathered in the first minute of the conversation. The questions that were being asked clearly proved that the dispatcher wasn't listening, jumped to a stupid conclusion before understanding what was going on, and therefor would not treat the call with the severity it deserved. If a father is locking a CPS official out of the home where a supervised visit is supposed to take place and there are children involved, then that should have been seen as potentially life threatening right from the start. If the father were so harmless why would the supervised visit be necessary in the first place? HELLO!!! It only takes a bit of common sense to assess the situation!
The fact that domestic situations like this aren't categorized as a possible "emergency" just goes to show that this dispatch group isn't smart enough to properly do their jobs. Arrogant and incompetent best describe them!
As a former policeman I learned to appreciate the "questioning" conducted by the dispatcher who is trying to get a story of what is happening, who is involved and any additional information to pass along to responding officers for their safety. They have mere minutes to obtain vital information out of caller ramblings from people who are not trained to report facts under duress. What the dispatch gleens from calls helps officers determine a safe response prior to arrival and potential other assets required.
IF this case worker had observed a firearm and called stating " A distrought man just took two young boys from my custody at gunpoint and is holding them hostage in his home at 1234 elm street, I hear shots being fired in the house", it would go out CODE 3 multiple units and rescue ambulance respond.
Instead you get a emotional rambling woman talking about a supervised visit where the father shut the door in her face, no weapons displayed, she was not injured or assaulted and no actual crime was witnessed.......at that point an officer would be dispatched to inquire what was going on and check on the well being of the people involved....but it would not be a high priority call.
I have responded to loud music complaints by neighbors only to find a homicide victim.....and responded to domestic fight in progress only to find a loud TV and no crime. Hindsight is a comfort bloggers and reporters have, not police.
It's very easy for all of us to chime in with shoulda, coulda, woulda, in the case for both the social worker and dispatcher. We all understand - while under no pressure whatsoever - our Monday quarterbacking.
Like you, I've listened to the tapes and truly feel the social worker did a poor job of communicating the pertinent details as well as her fear of lifethreatening concerns. The dispatcher must ask questions as he feeds information out to those responders. I guess my question is - if you were the dispatcher - listening to an overwrought social worker who sounds less than professionally focused - would you have responded differently? I would not - I heard no real urgency in her voice. I heard no focus - no details - only rambling. Another question - f this is such a high-profile case, why a single social worker? I do understand state agencies are stretched to the max on budget issues tho again - this was a high profile case.
All this said - from the comfort of my desk chair...I wouldn't change places with this social worker - to see if I could have done a better job - for anything on this planet. Would you?
This is what happens when you have to make cuts to them "overpaid union goverment workers."
Start making even more cuts and see what kind of people you get. Wait 20 years, and you'll see the kind of workers states like Wisconsin will have when the products of ticked off and underpaid teachers start moving into the work force.
I do blame the dispatcher. She should have been asking who, what and where right from the beginning.
I've called 911 in an emergency and the first questions out of the dispatcher's mouth are What is your name, where is the emergency, what is the nature of the emergency, do you need the police, is anyone injured, do you need a paramedic or ambulance, is there a fire or a gas leak, is there anyone in danger, are there any children involved.
By going through a series of short, yes/no questions a good dispatcher will get information quickly and immediately dispatch emergency services. In many communities, police will be dispatched always and fire/paramedics as needed.
I doubt the delay would have changed anything, but I've had similar experiences when calling dispatch. The questions go on and on, who you are, nature of the incident, description of the person, etc. I've sometimes wondered of they couldn't just ask that you stay on site until the officer responds and gets more details on arrival.
Sure sounds like a better idea than wasting time getting anything beyond a location to send help to.
I don't know who runs this dispatch center. I would have presumed a county sheriff's department except the article says "agency".
Nonetheless, dispatchers are trained to follow a protocol to elicit as precise information as they can to ascertain the nature of the call e.g. who is needed : EMS, fire, police, hostage negotiators etc and the level of danger to the responders. EMS never goes in until the scene is safe. Indeed, if there are shots being exchanged, the threat of an explosive devise etc, EMS may be parked a block away. Even fire will not get close enough to be a target.
Having said that, this dispatcher may have made a hash of how he handled the call. Not that it would have made a difference. I certainly could make a difference in other situations so hopefully the critical incident debriefing will be very thorough and require retraining if necessary.
Sounds like dispatchers did exactly what they were supposed to do. Believe it or not, they are trained to do several things at once. More than likely they were dispatching cops at the same time they were asking pertinent questions which they then relay to the responding officers so they have useful information when they arrive on scene. It sounds like the only available officers may have already been on a call of a serious nature and it may have required a minute or two of their time. If the officers flew hovercrafts they might have been able to arrive sooner, however I don't think the outcome would have been better. The only fault is with that sad sack of crap that called himself a dad.
It is unlikely the Powell boys' lives would have been saved in three to four minutes in this particular instance. However, what is important at this time is the utter lack of knowledge, skills and abilities demonstrated by the dispatcher in responding to emergency situations and the way he grilled the social worker and was so dismissive of her concerns. I have to wonder how many other emergency cases this embecile has treated in this manner and how many other lives may have been lost, or will be lost in the future, due to such a lackadaisical attitude toward an emergency call for help-- especially in cases of domestic violence and imminent danger. I understand this is not the first time Pierce County 911 operators have screwed up! Maybe this time, with some national press coverage and public scrutiny, they will be forced to hire and better train these dismissive, backward dispatchers. Firing for incompetence is not good enough for this guy--let's think criminal neglect or at least sue the bejesus out of him!
I know, but don't they have some kind of code system to follow? Why can't you get someone on their way and transmit the info in transit?
Wenn, it does say in the article that the police were not actually dispatched until a minute after the call ended.
I've been on a 911 call and during a robbery, they don't do anything, just ask questions. (The thief got away 1 block from the Seattle PD station after 7 minutes on the phone) I say more action COULD make a diference instead of needless questioning. Get a clue! The Police are paid to protect us and respond! Cold they do a better job, yes! In this case, it COULD have made a difference in a better response time. Anthing thing else is just speculation.
Stephaniecali, the reason they ask those questions over the phone is to get the responses on tape. You'd be surprised at how many murderers have been caught by reviewing the details in the 911 tapes. If they thought it was a dire emergency they would have dispatched immedately before collecting any of that information, but none of them had any idea that he was planning to kill his kids.
Sadddd, when seconds count, cops are minutes away. Next time open carry to deter criminals from attempting a robbery in the first place or to twart them if they attempt it anyway.
@Sadddd
The police have no to duty to protect you.
See: Castle Rock v. Gonzales and DeShaney v. Winnebago County.
Your Government has said that you are on your own.
Too many incidents like these involving children who call 911 too. The dispatchers are so unbelievably arrogant. Clearly these overpaid a-holes have no tolerance for minors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXO4OHpmKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7hXTy1l3o&feature=related
1) you talk to whomever is available to speak and report the emergency, regardless of age. Stop trying to get a parent on the phone and get someone out there. How many times does someone have to say people are dying and dead before you take them seriously???
2) It's not your job to teach people manners. It shouldn't matter if the biggest B*$ch in the world is calling. Stop taking the $*it so personally and to what you were paid to do - SAVE LIVES.
But children aren't the only ones treated badly. Adults can have their own issues with dispatch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUniYFNg4vs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDJMHz-hEg&feature=related
So why in the world should we be surprised when someone handling a case for CPS calls in with concerns and needs immediate assistance???
This of NO SURPRISE to me. I live and work in Pierce County, WA as Crisis Intervention Specialist. Just 2 weeks ago, I called 911 to report an immenant child endangerment situation with 2 kids (unrelated to this Powel case). Pierce County WA 911 refused to dispatch officers to investigate this situation of mine. I had to call them back 3 times over the course of one and one half hours and had to demand that I speak to the Police Sargent and when I did speak to him I had to convince him to actuate a safety check on these children
@Kevin, I'm not following. You stated the danger was imminent yet 1 1/2 hours elapsed with no harm to the children. Could your assessment been off? Are officers familiar with the case and may have had a different assessment? Was it a frequent flyer situation?
And were the children in fact harmed in this incident, or did you expect the entire police force, the army, the navy, the air force, and the marines to respond to a situation in which the children were not, in fact, in any danger except in your own imagination?
Guys, this particular situation was one in which the parents had a long documented history of abusing their children
Kevin - The same people who are interrogating you here, would be the same ones calling for blood and vengeance on everyone involved in your narrative if something serious had something happened to those 2 children.
Kevin: It certainly is clear to me why you are no longer employed there. Sound a little nutty...
". . . .long documented history of abusing their children."
So they were frequent flyers with whom the police no doubt had prior contact. Despite this "long, documented history" the children were were with the parents so others did not share your believe that the children were in 'imminent danger' for their lives.
This poses the question to my mind whether you had a history of making such calls in which there was no 'imminent danger' of life.
@shame
"danger is imminent" is you witnessed a crime in progress where a weapon was displayed and actions would lead a resonable and prudent person to believe gross bodily injury or death would occur. If you witness and report that you observed these things first hand a code 3 emergency response would occur.
IF you call and state you "feel" something might occur but have no first hand observations or facts to support this, then it is not an "Imminent" situation.
When people resort to 911 its usually because they feel their particular situation is most important and police should treat it as most important too, which is not always the case depending on other calls for service pending also.
Complete incompetence.
It nay have not made a difference but then again it may have. Those kids should have never been at a visit in his home they should have been in a public place. So very sad. The kids are with their mom now though.
It would have made no difference. Powell had it all set up and was ready. He'd have taken others out if he had to.
jk, you are right in this particular Powel situation. But arguementitive disposition of Pierce Co. WA 911 and Police are not uncommon when it comes to child endangerment reports (even when the report is made by a liscenced MHP)
I heard she actually said "He exploded the house....". Why change the language folks use, to make them sound more educated than they are? I say print it as they say it... maybe it will convince them to do better in the future.
bram, Pierce County WA 911 and their Police are COMPLETELY incompetant when when it comes to responding to child endangerment situations and have been so for yrs.
Here comes the lynch mob out for everyone else blood. I swear, there is no reason to bring up the delay with the dispatcher, this dude needed about 1/10th of a second to blow the house up. The only possible way this would never have happened to the children is if they where not there!
Yes, but the CPS will need attention on the dispatcher to deflect their ineptness.
What ineptness? This CPS worker or representative did everything possible!!?? You can hear her pleading for help!!
She was ALONE on a case where they thought this guy was a danger to his children and had to be supervised.
Having a police escort or another CPS worker should have been MANDATORY!
QE, out of this tragity, permenant re-training will be actuated for 911 and the Police. The Judge is of ultimate responsibility to allow this supervised visitation within Powels home. CPS is so understaffed and dysfunctionally supervised it makes me vomit. This exposure will help to resolve this on-going problem
QE137 - I agree. The judge or child advocate, etc. The boys mentioning their mom in the trunk should have changed a lot of things immediately. Seems like a lot of mis-communication all around. I hope all agencies learn and improve just a little.
And, yeah, the lynch mob would be justified in this case. The 911 dispatcher is obviously a bureaucrat, puffed up with his own importance, delaying because he can, not because he has to, to put this CPS employee in her place in his self important world! The least he could have done is not waste time giving her excuses for why he can't send someone out immediately, and simply get the pertinent information from her and tell her help is on the way.
QE, so law enforcement are to be mind readers and know when an SW needs an escort? Is there a reason she did not say to her supervisor "look, this guy is a grenade with the pin pulled; we need cops for this"
For all of you intent on hanging the dispatcher : your assignment is to view/read interviews with Kirk Graves who is married to Powell's sister. It's an easy google but here is a teaser : ". . . the only person who is to blame — is Josh.”
Umm. I did not suggest that anyone had to read minds. CPS should have requested an escort and that was part of what I am getting at.
There appears to communication and experience issues on both sides here, but it's also very understandable how incredible the incident was that few people, including myself, would have likely added any other way than what happened. Not knowing the exact address, is something that is so easy to occur when one just gets used to landmarks. It seems that a lot of different circumstance contributed to this final ending. A lot of "what ifs" What if the social worker had been trained or been experienced in continual domestic combat situations, having dealth with a number of emergencies would help have arrived sooner and in time? What if the 911 officer had been more aware of who Josh Powell was and understood the key trigger words that were coming from the social worker? Many times, 9-1-1 is dispatched almost simultaneously in the first minute once a threshold is reached, especially in an identified medical emergency which many people are commonly aware of. But this event??? Once in a hundred thousand and never the same 911 center or social worker??? Too easy to judge in hindsight.
That 911 operator needs to be fired. They deal with life and death situations and need to make intelligent decisions rather than ask an excessive amount of questions when there is a life at stake.
I'm not saying it would have saved the boys life but still, there must be a better way to conduct yourself as a 911 operator because this operator clearly didn't understand the severity of the phone call.
actually 911 operators ARE there to ask questions, they have to take rambling stories and pick facts out of them to ascertain what if any crime is occuring and what police response is mandated, they are also asking questions to fully inform responding officers for their safety as well.........and the more serious the event..the more questions should be asked. So YEA, they are supposed to ask a bunch of questions, thats what they do, thats their job. DOH!
Had the deputies been discharged earlier, they might have died as well. They might've been tearing down the door when the house exploded. The only person who could've prevented this was the judge who allowed the visitation. I am so tired of judges who put "father's" rights over children's rights.
The children's rights include having their father.
Do not confuse this syco's situation with the fact that a child has a right to a loving father.
QE, I need you to represent me in my child custody case. Very brave of you to make this fact known to the world in the format of this sociopathic tragety
It is always a good time to remind a broken society how all of its children deserve a father, especially when some one leaves the door open and says something like :"I am so tired of judges who put "father's" rights over children's rights."
That is a crock loaded statement. The dirt bag is this story should not have had access to his children at all ( or rights to them ) if a court deemed through careful investigation that he indeed was a danger.
For anyone to make a general statement about how a child's rights are some how eroded by the observation of a parents rights to his children is just plan bull. I object to the generalization this statement made, I do not object the the murderous father in this story was a total monster and should have never had access to the children.
QE37, read my above comments, I have had personal experience with the incompetance of Pierce County WA 911 staff and their police officers when it comes to child endangerment situations
I have read it, but their incompetence is not the only incompetence that should be scrutinzed. This story should be focusing on why such a high profile case was being serviced by ONE CPS worker with no escort.
I'm sorry, this whole thing just looks like a stage to start pointing fingers at everyone else. CPS was in error, and no one should lose sight of that while debating if an 8 min delay would have made a difference in an action that took 1/10th of a second to perpetrate.
QE, it is true that the homicidal action was so quick in this particular situation that any quick law enforcement response could not have prevented it. However, this SW,s delay in response to her call to 911 for police support is NOT uncommen in calls to Pierce County WA 911 and Police response to child endangerment situations. They just need to be re-trained as to the priorority of child endangerment reports and response (currently pulling someone over because their tags are expired takes presidence over the protection of children)
Kevin: Here is what you would have been left with HAD officers arrived on scene before it went up in flames.
1) Hysterical case worker crying out and making things worse for officers
2) Officers knocking on door and or trying to get the father to come out
3) Father not coming out, no response from father
4) SWAT and or Negotiator called to scene
5) Attempt to get father out or to at least let the kids go
Before step 3 even happened the father had or would have already killed the kids and blew the house up. Am I saying the dispatcher did everything right. No.
Why is it that, every time a child dies, somebody has to pay!
The police are to blame. The social worker is to blame. The Devil is to blame. Umm, how about the guy that killed the kid is to blame??
No, that would be too easy-- and to sensible. If the killer cannot be held accountable, then by all means, we must hang someone else, even the very people who did their best to protect the innocent but failed, right? That way, we can all feel like somebody paid!
This is all so disgusting. Excuse me, but I need to vomit now.
Shandril, this is just a productive exposure of Pierce County WA 911 and Police idiology and illogical practice and lack of response to child endangerment situations. This exposure will benifit the population via re-training of 911 and Police
The only thing that might, and it's a big might, have made a difference is if the protocols called for an armed police officer to accompany the social workers in such highly volatile cases. Whether the officer could have overpowered Powell or shot himthrough a window before he had a chance to cause the explosion is conjecture. Nonetheless, such might serve as a deterrent from violence in some cases.But with this psychopath and the way he planned it out and acted so swiftly and surely, even that probably would not have helped.
That is exactly why this story has no base. The 8 min lag caused by a fumbling dispatcher would have made NO difference at all. The only reason to mention this under the current context is that someone put it out there to deflect questions away from the people who put the kids in this situation.
There simply is no point to bringing this delay to light at this point.
QE--some improvements in the protocols and training of dispatchers might help in other cases in the future. It might very well save the lives of other childen and women in domenstic violent, eminent danger or especialy volatile situations.
Yes,but what gain is there in releasing this information on this story in this way? When you have a situation like this it would be far better to list the dispatch problems in a separate story that was created to highlight the need for better dispatch training.
The way this story is written it portends to show fault and that has nothing to do with the larger story since it is clear that the dispatch reaction time could not possibly have been fast enough to stop this guy from detonating the house.
QE, it is apparently to show that the lack of caring about fellow humans starts from the top and works its way down. Once it was at the point of the emergency call, it was too late, but if some dispatcher is so emotionally detached, I can only imagine how much worse it is the higher up you go.
At least we know nobody with the authority to do so protected those children. And, anyone giving the CPS worker a hard time for not remembering the address, seriously, she was in a panic and trying her best...this was a case waaaaay above her head and that poor woman should never have had to be the one responsible for the boys' safety during visits...an armed law enforcement officer should have been there, considering the case in its entirety. What a nightmare for her as well.
Questions:
That need answers.
How many police officers have been let go and how many would there be if the President's Jobs Bill had Passed ?
This man was listed as person of interest in a murder wife.
How often did police check on him?
Why was he not under surveillance?
The last two questions can be answered by first interoggative.
Oh now.. lets blame Obama for this.
Where in my post do you see me blaming the President.
The only thing I pointed out was
If they had passed his jobs bill ( which covered the hiring of policemen, teachers, and firemen )
The police department would have been fully staffed.
I do hope u are not a supporter of the President
We do not need people that can not read
can not think
and follow like dogs
That is the other dark side (replicans & t-bag trash)
Bush did it
Sh-t i can fall into
Where were you between 2000-2008
while bushie2/chinny were running up the National Deficit at a rate of 1.2 trillion dollars a year.
GOOGLE National Debt and go to government web-site
and while your at learning go to OBAMA HEALTH CARE BILL on GOOGLE and learn what the Congreessional Budget Office says about how much the bill will save.
It took the police 14 minutes to get there after they were dispatched. The first call from the social worker lasted 8 minutes during which the boys were crying and apparently being attacked and the house blew up within 2 minutes after that." The statement by this article that "It wasn't known if a quicker response could have saved the boys, who had also been attacked with a hatchet," indicates the writer is trying to sensationalize the issue for those who can't figure that 14 is greater than 8 + 2.
"We have to respond to emergency life-threatening situations first."
Gee, a suspected murderer, locking himself and children in a house and barring a caseworker entry, and the smell of gas doesn't add up to a life-threatening situation?
...Everybody needs to be prepared to deal with a dispatcher... Even the best can get something wrong. Fellow in my building gone into a coma... dispatcher arguing with me about the address (Post Office insists that it is Jackson St... Dispatcher that it is South Jackson St.... turns out each insists on listing it its own way...)
...
...Another time car in our parking lot... people tried to torch... Was 105 degrees that day... If car had gone up, tall grass would have gone up killing mother and daughter in building next to our lot... 911 would not take call as "not happening now..." Gave me another number to call... Four hours later clerk called me... took notes... Absolutely no response of any kind... and in violation of the law, not reported by police to fire marshal...
...
...Couple of days later Community Service Officer talking to our landlord about something completely unrelated... He took full report and notified fire marshal... By then major thunderstorm had destroyed most of the evidence...
THAT quote really, REALLY bothers me.
And everyone calling 911 has a "life-threatening situation". The dispatcher has access to many resources, fire department, police, rescue squad and others (such as animal control). So the first thing the dispatcher must do is determine the nature of the emergency and that takes questions. Once the type of response is determined, the dispatcher needs to find out how serious the emergency is.
Firemen, Policemen and Rescue Squads are not sitting around waiting for YOUR emergency. There ARE crank calls, and the dispatcher will be held responsible for dispatching resources to a false alarm. So they are in a NO-WIN situation. All these comments really reflect ignorance of the process a single call center must go through. You dial 911 for personal danger from fire, home invasion and natural disaster all the way down to a kitten in a tree. If the fire truck needed to fight YOUR fire was sent to an empty field minutes before you needed it because the dispatcher did not check out the call, you'd be a bit unhappy. Just because you claim to have credentials (like the case worker identifying herself) still leaves the dispatcher responsible for committing the proper resources.
So we blame the dispatcher. And when a Police Officer is heading toward an Emergency, he needs all the information he can get so he is not shot and killed as he leaves his automobile. Do you think the case worker was giving that a second thought, probably not. She just wanted an officer there and would have watched in amazement had it really been a hostage situation and Powell put a big hole in the officer's chest with a high powered rifle. That is why the dispatcher asks questions. If you take offense and argue with them, it will take twice as long. In the end, you are going to blame the dispatcher, and maybe sue to get them fired as a previous post suggested.
Utterly amazing that this is considered news, especially when confronted with the fact that no matter how fast the response there would have been no change in the outcome. Everybody claims how guilty the guy was and should have been denied access to his children. Remember that if your spouse gets angry and claims abuse at you and you want to be treated fairly. As a nation based on the rule of law, it is innocent until proven guilty. So the only way a different outcome could have happened was between the Judge and child services providing a framework that was more conservative and protective of the children without violating Powell's rights. Yes, everyone has rights, even if they are a "person of interest".
Remember, the case worker did not even have the address handy, and in many areas of the west, cell phone localization is difficult. Not every phone in possession of every case worker is GPS equipped. So there is lots of blame to spread around to make sure that no abiding lessons are learned over this.
An-Engineer writes: "There ARE crank calls, and the dispatcher will be held responsible for dispatching resources to a false alarm."
Wrong!!
The 'Emergency Telecommunicator' - Dispatcher will be held responsible for for NOT dispatching emergency units to a call.
How do I know? Because I managed two 9-1-1 Dispatch Centers for a number of years.
Unless there is a reliable/responsible person at the other end of the phone telling us it's a false alarm - we're going to roll the units. Better safe than sorry.
And the following protocol should be followed:
1. Quickly ascertain the basic nature of the emergency and the location - keep the caller on the phone
2. Dispatch unit/s
3. Obtain addition information while units are en-route, and relay this to responders.
------------------------------------------------------
Now I realize that with the time factor involved in this particular incident, responders would still have arrived too late to make a difference - yet they should have been dispatched well before the eight minutes which it took.
This particular lack of emmediate response by 911 and the Police is not unusual in Pierce County, Washington
We are talking about sheriff's, you know. And, anyone's surprised? They're barely adequate dozing, er... controlling traffic, in a construction zone.
Why would that bother you? Do you think that they should put off responding to things they KNOW are life threatening situations in favor of responding to situations they don't think are life threatening? They had no idea he was planning on killing the kids... so don't judge them based on the assumption that they knew then what we know now.
The dispatcher should have a prearranged set of questions to ask whoever calls so they can get the info out asap.. From there they can ascertain what they need to do and to do it quickly. Instead of just going through the motions. Their questions should be able to get a quicker response then the time given.. No they maybe would not be able to stop what was going on but we will never know now, will we. That is their job and not everyone who has had to call in a emergency does not know what is expected so they might be a little slow and a little hesitant about what info is pertinent at that time.. Besides when you call in you have to prove to the dispatcher your point and why you are calling.. That is a big thing, because most people can't believe some that there are some really bad people out there because they have never had access to anyone of a violent nature. Yes, the blame is on the Dad, but at some point there could have been moments where fate could have been changed. That is what all of us should work for.. To make a difference. Training helps in more ways than one, we all know this so why don't we do a better job of it for everyone involved in this case..What a insult to all the Dads out there that are in a bad spot...Hell waits for this dad.
The police can not protect you. They CAN investigate, and try to find out who killed you.
I'm an atheist but sh!t like this makes me wish there was a hell where he could get rip apart by demons for eternity. I hope they find the mother any time soon to put an ending to this ugly tragedy. supervised visit?? what can a unarmed women do against some psycho, seriously our system is like a Swiss cheese... full of holes!
As I said in another comment about the first story that came out about this.... Law Enforcement is to blame for the deaths of those 2 young boys. This new information only proves that I was right.
A warning to everyone reading this. This is a perfect example of Law Enforcement only getting to a crime AFTER the fact to write up the report. NEVER call 911 for a crime, take care of it yourself by carrying a concealed weapon with your concealed license. Takie charge of your safety and that of your family. NEVER, EVER wait for Law Enforcement, they are useless.
HAHAHA, Geekster the sad little boy who wanted to be something and he can't be it... Even God wasn't able to save these kids knucklehead. This jerk was demented and even if law enforcement could have gotten there within a millisecond, he would have done his evil deed. This may be difficult for folks like you to grasp, but there are some things in life that law enforcement can't prevent, and there are many, many things that can't be fixed. If you are an adult, you have a lot of maturing, and if you are a kid (sounds like it), you have a lot of growing up to do. Why, I bet the ONLY one that could have saved these kids would have been you Geekster. Shoot, wish you had your own personal 911 line so we could all call you for these types of situations.