Let's hope it is the first of many scores. Afterall, whitey is getting to be a minority.

Good for them. This is not a us against them, but all discrimination should be dealt with fairly. White, Black or other. As for as JH minority statement, white is a minority? Maybe in some States, but not overall. The sky is not falling yet. I think in 30 years, we can talk about the Hispanic population, but there is still time to ramp up the baby machines.

smh

Jah...

In 30 years, America's hispanic population with be talking about us as the minority...check the math !

Hopefully, at least...they be doing the talking in English so our great grandchildren will understand what is being said.

Add to that they all work for a living to help pay taxes when I'm retired !!!

Jahmekan, Actually "overall" white is a minority in the world's population. Whites make up approximately 15-20% of the world's population.

Being a minority or majority is irrelevant, as discrimination on race is wrong no matter who is doing it or who is discriminated against.

Actually "overall" white is a minority in the world's population.

Mike P101 - The discussion is not about world population. It's about the population of the USA, Einstein.

This suit isn't about minorities or majorities--it's about the fact that less qualified applicants were selected because of race. If I recall, that was a common occurrence during the Jim Crow era, where whites with lesser qualifications were selected over black applicants simply because of their race. We determined then that it was unacceptable--as it is now when the tables are turned.

whites, physically the minority. Financially, the majority.

Its been that way for the last 500 years.

cry me a river.

It is about time that something like this happened. I can remember years ago when I was unemployed I went to apply for a job that as in the local unemployment office job listings. I was told not to bother applying because the job was a minority hire set aside. Never mind that I needed a job and that the listing looked like it as written for me, I was not a minority so I could not even apply. Things like this only serve to perpetuate the problem, not fix it.

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who you are favoring. It does not have anything to do with being in the majority or a minority, it is about using something other than the ability to do the job as a determining factor in who gets the position. If minorities truly want equality then they will stop pushing for special consideration, quotas, and other help based solely on their being a minority. Pushing for changes so that you are the ones being favored is not seeking equality, it is seeking to use the same type of system you say you are against to benefit yourself instead of someone else. True equality means no preferences based on anything other than your ability to do the job.

Finally some good news in this ridiculus "affirmative action" war! Replacing white preferencial prejudice with predice favoring minorities is just as wrong and is completely hypocritial. Fair is fair.

aBanana-1782128

Now we can go back in time and award for lost wages and damages for 250 years of free labor to African American families across the country. What a farse this was.

Why don't YOU volunteer to pay them first? Most of my family was still in Europe during those times, why should I be held responsible for something which I had nothing to do with?

I've got news for you, many different groups have been treated unfairly in the past. Quit complaining and move on.

Reverse discrimination has finally come to light in the way of a court ruling. Betcha this ruling will be contested by the ALCU.

Ido for Obama: Yes, I'm waiting also to read that the ALCU (Association of Local Colleges and Universities) will contest this ruling. It will affect them greatly, somehow.

Dick, not really aware of what the ACLU'S mission is are you? I'll explain it to you. It is to defend the US Constitution's first ten amendments, The Bill of Rights. You might have heard of them. But what you don't know is they apply to everyone not just of those that you agree with politically but EVERYONE. Mostly they take cases dealing with the first amendment. You might know that one, it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Who said anything about the ACLU?

ABC.. was commenting on the use of the word "overall." Thank you for adding your wonderful insight into the discussion though!

Wow! Shocking recognition of the old adage that's what good for the goose is good for the gander. But, watch the politicians try to reverse this just ruling and reimpose discrimination against the White employees.

Now we can go back in time and award for lost wages and damages for 250 years of free labor to African American families across the country. What a farse this was.

Who are we going to pay? You? Were you held as a slave? As far as I know, none of the slaves are still living. If they were, I'd agree. The fire fighters in this story were the ones who were discriminated against therefore they get to sue. My family was in Europe back then. Furthermore even if were here, there was no way we'd have one, up until two generations ago, we were poorer than dirt potato farmers. Why the hell should I be held accountable?

If you want to go there, women were oppressed since the beginning of time; denied jobs and education. Where's my money?

I find it laughable that so many people jump in on this story to talk about how great and positive this is. Blacks are still discriminated against for jobs all of the time, numerous studies have shown that white people with lower qualifications than their black counterparts often end up getting hired for the position, where are you posters at for those stories? Crickets....

If these fire fighters were truly discriminated against it is a good thing that they will be compensated for it, but understand that this happens to minorities far more often, it has gone on for years, and there generally is no awards like this because it is often swept under the rug.

Holy chit...$2.5 million damm that's a lot..wonder what the black firefighers can get then?

"In some cases, they're working for people they should be in charge of. Seeing someone else wearing the captain's bars -- that's hard stuff,"

Not only "hard stuff" but if those promoted did not make the grade, this is dangerous stuff as well.

I am really glad these firefights pursued the suit. It draws attention to something a lot more important then just "racism," (a truly meaningless word in itself). It's not just the color of a person's skin. Inverse discrimination has been flourishing for centuries. It's always, though, an ugly little unmentionable.

Whether skin color, religious belief, education, gender, sexual preference, IQ, politics, how long we've lived on this earth ... impossible to recite them all. But, I think, behind these fingers pointing at others it is simply based on a primal fear that there is always someone better than we are.

The real challenge is one of the ultimate mysteries of survival (the puzzle challenged to humanity at the Delphic temple going back more than 8,000 years ).

Know Thyself.

The men and/or women who took the jobs of these firefighters should be ashamed to show their faces at work. They did not earn their positions but stole them.

One of the reasons Russia - thank God - ultimately fell apart is because their system did not reward effort and accomplishment of talented people but discouraged it - even penalized it with prison if you criticized "Mother Russia". Utter incompetents ascended to the ranks of power because they knew someone or simply knew how to play the totally corrupt communist system that always was more about power than it ever was about "the worker".

Affirmative discrimination was a morally bankrupt and despicable idea from the moment the idiot who thought it up thought it. No man, who truly has self-respect, would allow himself to take a job that was given to him simply because of the color of his skin anymore than you or I should stand by and allow someone to be denied a job simply because of the color of his or her skin.

It is time to put this initiative sapping, ivory tower, politically correct travesty finally and completely out of its misery and kill off all elements of such stupidity that the simple minded apologists for the past have managed encode into law.

You do not right the wrongs of the past by writing knew wrongs into history.

Time to fire the people who stole their jobs. Now that would send the right message; that you cannot look the other way when it comes to discrimination regardless of skin color - and real or imagined transgressions in the past - and be selectively color blind.

They should have from the beginning named Affirmative Action honestly - The Act to Promote the Incompetent over the Competent and encourage mediocrity and kill initiative.

Yeah, I want to have a brain surgeon operate on me - or a fire brigade run by someone who didn't have the smarts to win his or her job fairly come to my rescue - who only mangaged to get their position because a capricious, even if well intentioned, law allowed discrimination.

The reality is that when a test results in the systemic exclusion of minorities it can be deemed discrimiantory. Particularly, if that test is not a valid preedictor of future performance. While there are some elements of a paper and pencil test that might have a high degree of relevance to the job of firefighter, my guess is that on the job experience has more. Historically, these fire departments have been controlled by whites excluding minorities with impugnity. Cities like Buffalo are trying to undo years of past didscrimination.

In spite of the efforts of cities like Buffalo, there is no eveidence to suggest that whites are the victims of systemic discrimination. There just isn't. These individual situations are always prompted by a lack of minorities in the organization or in certain positions in the first place. The oppressed white is myth.

Affirmative Action is a crime perpetuated on the American public by well-meaning but not-too-bright legislators.

There will always be some discriminatory ideas in the hearts of a few, but to enshrine discrimination into the law of the land is by far, a worse evil. The idea that AA has been upheld by the courts (until now) is disturbing.

I feel sorry for Buffalo. The people in charge thought they had to comply with a Federal Law...damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now the taxpayers will pay for Federal stupidity.

If we ever hope to to truly be equal as a country, then no one should be judged for a job based on the color of their skin. As for whites being the minority, 72.4 % of the population is white, its gonna take a while...

The PBA shoud be the next to file suit against the city. Same situation with the Police. When you have a minority population , electing a Black mayor , this is the end result

It sounds like a reasonable ruling (except for the part about 'emotional damages', which cannot be quantified).

Fire fighters (and to a lesser extent, police officers) in some areas suffered unfairly from 'reverse discrimination'.

Virtually no one else has, so don't get expect a tidal wave of reeverse discrimination lawsuits.

As a society, we still discriminate plenty against African Americans, Latinos, and several other groups, but not the so-called 'Non-Hispanic Whites' (that 'new race', invented only recently, because too many people were considered 'white' under the old 'race' categories).

There may be repercussions for college and university admissions as well. Too bad. It's hard to feel sorry for a guy like Alan Bakke, who basically said "I may be dumber than any of the white guys at this school, but I scored better on a test than the dumbest black guy, so you have to let me in, even though I had a lot of advantages that other guy didn't have."

Alex-2551573

The men and/or women who took the jobs of these firefighters should be ashamed to show their faces at work. They did not earn their positions but stole them

Why would they be ashamed? They stole nothing! A system that was created with the best of intentions has become flawed and outdated and, while they did benefit, I hardly call it stealing. Unless you can prove that the people who got the jobs somehow altered the test results, blaming them is ridiculous and ignorant of you.

Hey I've got an idea, how about the most qualified person('s) gets the promo? What am I thinking, thats just stupid.

You can't STEAL a job.

If you're unemployed, trying brushing up on your skills. Most important of all, portray a good attitude; that colossal chip on your shoulder does not endear you to others.

I've got news for you, many different groups have been treated unfairly in the past. Quit complaining and move on.

then maybe these white firefighters should do the same since so many of you agreed with this statement. do you see the hypocrisy now?

It's about how long you've been on the job and/or skin color. In a perfectly normal world your idea of the best qualified candidate would get the job and that would be the norm but right now that is down right radical thinking!

Talking about slavery, I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that slaves were sold by their own leaders, they weren't stolen or "rounded up" as most like to believe.

Preferential treatment leads to reverse discrimination which isn't right. Each person should stand on their own merit and abilities and seek employment and opportunities to which they are capable. You are only held back by your ability and attitude, not pigmentation.

Good Lord. This case wasn't about "scoring one for whitey," nor did have anything to do with slavery. It's precisely these kinds of attitudes that serve to perpetuate and exacerbate racial division. The case was about racial discrimination, period. The race of the plaintiffs is absolutely irrelevant in the eyes of the law, only the fact that they were discriminated against. In that context, the ruling was correct and justice is served.

Amazing how things are viewed when you are on the other side. For 80% of the history of this country it has been legal to discriminate against blacks in some way or manner. Now, efforts to correct that atrocity are being characterized as racist. Absurd. Race has always been a problem in america for some people. It is as much a part of american history as the american flag. Pretending that it did not exist does not make it go away.

Part of the reason that we need affirmative action is the fact that there is a school of thought believed by many that suggests that blacks are simply inferior to whites intellectually. This is the kind of thinking that allows some whites to believe that Obama was simply given diplomas from Columbia and Harvard. How could he, a black man, really gradute from Harvard Law Magna Cum Laude and as Editor of the Harvard Law Review. They will do anything they can to diminish those qualifications while at the same time proclaiming that there is nothing racist in their pronouncements.

Jahmekan 1.2

If you want to talk overall, white is indeed a minority in the world, and a pretty small one at that.
There certainly does remain some countries where whites are still the majority but that is fast being eroded through unfettered immigration and prolific procreation, and this country is no exception.

Tiggle

Talking about slavery, I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that slaves were sold by their own leaders, they weren't stolen or "rounded up" as most like to believe.

Right....Cause "all "of our leaders sold us off for money. Give me a break.

Just because you didnt partake in the capture of Africans Does not mean your not guilty - still bought them. : /

Hatr: Seem my response at 5.4 "Vietnam Farmers Hailed..." to confirm your ignorance.

One for the whitey? Seariously, didn't know people were keeping score. What an asinine comment. What are you going to do when your whitey lineage turns brown? Start rolling in your graves?

RwEvans and others, it is not a mute point that the U.S. Census includes a category for white hispanics.

. . . it is not a mute point that the U.S. Census includes a category for white hispanics.

Agreed . . . but it may be a moot point, though I couldn't say for certain.

Sorry, I couldn't resist ;)

Orly-4376386

Tiggle

Talking about slavery, I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that slaves were sold by their own leaders, they weren't stolen or "rounded up" as most like to believe.

Right....Cause "all "of our leaders sold us off for money. Give me a break.

Just because you didnt partake in the capture of Africans Does not mean your not guilty - still bought them. : /

Um I've never owned a slave, neither has any of my ancestors (I'm 3rd generation) so I'm guilty of nothing, nice try though.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

Orly-4376386

Tiggle

Talking about slavery, I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that slaves were sold by their own leaders, they weren't stolen or "rounded up" as most like to believe.

Right....Cause "all "of our leaders sold us off for money. Give me a break.

Just because you didnt partake in the capture of Africans Does not mean your not guilty - still bought them. : /

Um I've never owned a slave, neither has any of my ancestors (I'm 3rd generation) so I'm guilty of nothing, nice try though.

You read it wrong. Next time I'll use "They" to avoid the confusion.

Just because the slave trader - did not necessarily partake in the capture of Africans does not mean that there exempt from blame - they Bought and Brought them after all.

BTW nice try Tiggle. Slave Traders did go out to "wrangle" there own slaves.

That makes more sense Orly and I agree with you to a certain extent "THEY" were to blame, but not the generations after slavery ended.

Oh you posters that lament those poor Africans rounded up and sold into slavery. Firstly, white slavers did indeed round up some slaves themselves, but they only had access to those that lived near the coastal regions as they dared not venture too far into the continent. To acquire those slaves required the assistance of predatory tribes that have been raiding other villages for centuries mostly looting and killing but eventually capturing instead of killing when it became advantageous (and more profitable) to sell them to the slavers.

Another fact long ignored in these discussions is that Africans were not the only people that were made into slaves or sold into bondage. There were Asians and whites as well as many others. You see, slavery as an institution existed since the dawn of recorded history (and probably before that) and flourished on every continent save for Antarctica. It is also interesting to note that in the 21^st century slavery still exists only in Africa.

It's funny how the closet racists use this as a soapbox to say "see, whites are discriminated against too!"

And the other sides say "See! now you how we've felt!"

I say, bah humbug! show me a race that HASN'T been a slave somewhere in their past and I'll eat my shoe.

Get over it.

These idiots talking about the white race as being a minority in the world , and saying how do you like it are forgetting the FACT that we may be a small part of the worlds population but we tell the whole world what to do !!! And we ( The white population ) have the most civilized and advanced societies !!! So choke on that !!

I'm happy for all of them. Discrimination is wrong no matter who it is coming from, and reverse racism is all this was about.

Kudos to all these men that won.

And yet, they didn't get the promotions due them.

I am 70 years old, much older than most posters, and remember when, and HOW, affirmative action first came about.

It was decided that blacks had been denied hiring and promotion because of their race---true. "Affirmative" steps were taken to find qualified blacks for jobs and promotions. Many programs in their communities were enacted, and the end result was that they could not find qualified qualified blacks. So, what was done? Lower qualifications, set asides, and quotas. The result? Few people believe that any blacks, in any positions, in any university, are truly qualified.

Be honest with yourself. The next time that you have an unpleasant experience dealing with a black person in any position, do you not think, "They got their job because of AA"?

The best thing about his post is that it's true. In my state for example (Massachusetts) did you know that when taking the firefighters entrance exam you are given extra points added to your score simply by being anything other than white? Would you rather have the guy with the top score running into a burning building to save you or the guy who got the job just because of his skin color?

I grew up in Mass also and had a friend that had to wait 18 months to take the exam required for firefighting because there were not enough minorities applying. So for two cycles the test was not given. Finally on the third cycle the test was given despite the fact that yet again they couldn't get their 'quota' of minorities to apply.

He's now a high ranking officer in the dept, it's just sad that he had to wait 18 months to begin his career.

I'm still waiting for WET == "White Entertainment TV"

MarineDoc,

The best thing about your post is the secure knowledge that one day your "sell by date" is coming also. Try a little respect.

Marine doc,

Quite clever---for a middle schooler. Facts are facts, that is how AA evolved.

You NEVER thought that an incompetent person achieved their position because of AA, correct?

About the "We can't find any qualified minorities" rationale for lowered standards under affirmative action.

A family friend/attorney was called in---this was years ago---to help Fortune 500 companies with this problem, during recruitment drives for middle management. When she saw their "qualifications," she was often stunned. Many of these organizations wanted advanced degrees from Ivy League schools AND a minimum of ten years' experience as requirements to even get an interview. They'd set the bar so high that they would have had trouble finding qualified whites---for jobs that qualified whites would have to take lesser titles AND pay---and often times, HR people in these companies did this deliberately, so they could say, "we can't find anyone."

Something to keep in mind whenever someone claims that affirmative action meant hiring lesser-qualified people. "Lesser qualified" didn't always mean what any reasonable person might think.

That said, if these guys were screwed out of promtions they'd earned, I'm GLAD they got paid. Lord knows, this still happens to black folks far too often for this black man to be able to condone it happening to ANYONE.

Discrimination is wrong

Then let's put an end to it, and quit pretending that 'we' are the victims (and stop using that as an excuse to continue discriminating against others).

These fire fighters had a legitimate claim. The other 99.99% of Americans of northern European heritage do not.

That said, if these guys were screwed out of promtions they'd earned, I'm GLAD they got paid. Lord knows, this still happens to black folks (and others) far too often

Exactly!

Anecdotal evidence.

Proof of lower standards, set-asides, and quotas is easily available.

two cliches' come to mind.

The truth is seldom kind and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. My query would be why aren't the shortcomings of minority communities ever addressed? It's always to blame someone else. I'm an OTB (other than black) living my 50+ years as a minority in a black community. What kind of chance do this kids have with so many broken homes? I see 13-14 year old girls so proud of their babies you would think the won the Stanley Cup.I know babies having babies is a problem in ALL communities but it seems some more than others.

I guess you are one of those people who would benefit from an extra boost CombatMedic, since we've been over this a bunch of times, and you don't seem to be able to learn.

JoeMike,

I don't need to respect idiots and racists. It's really time for that generation to die out, and take their ingrained bigotry with them.

And here I thought racism was dead. Guess I stand corrected by all the post. If you truely don't judge a person's skin color, you would not have an agruement for either side. PERIOD.

Yes, many things about that generation need to go by the wayside. However, little good will result from the passing of those things, if it is not recognized that the hatred which caused the problem in the first place is not endemic to any specific culture, and is ultimately a defect in the human makeup. So if a universal point of view for society is not taken, then such problems will just well up in another area or group again.

My query would be why aren't the shortcomings of minority communities ever addressed?

flip12U2 -

In New Jersey, our courts and legislature have come up with the idea for the last 30 or so years that "abbott districts" should receive extensive funding from state taxes and distributions of federal funding. This even extends to the state sales tax being only 50% in those towns, with that money being retained by that town and not to the state's general fund. The basis for the fund distribution is that if you are in a high crime/low education area, the rest of the state should suffer while all the money available goes to building extravagant schools, low/no interest business loans, low/no interest mortgages and under-priced, government subsidised housing. The result? The same towns still have high crime, high welfare, low employment and low education. In addition, there is graffiti all over these new schools with poor attendance. The school administrators who did nothing to increase student attendance or increase the graduation rate (taking into account the skewing of numbers from the "no child left behind" failure) were richly rewarded.

To answer your question, the issues have been addressed by politicians with results being a resounding failure.

If you truely don't judge a person's skin color, you would not have an agruement for either side. PERIOD.

thepunisher -

I disagree. I have been on the losing side of affirmative action. The person hired in my place did not have the same qualifications. I have also been told multiple times I was overqualified for the position I was applying for. Due to the job market in my field for the last 10 years, I have had to take positions below my ability and experience levels.

Having been in management, I have also been told to hire a "token minority" due to AA. Refusing to do so put a target on my back, with my eventually being replaced by someone who couldn't handle the job.

No its not, but its even more unfair if the stack of cards is arrayed against you.

Like we are going to promote this guy over you, not because he is better qualified for the position, but because we like his skin color over yours.

I wonder if the president will say that today in Buffalo, a jury "acted stupidly".

It's about damn time. If people are crying for fairness and equal rights, I agree, but let it be fair across the board. If you're going for a job, promotion, entry into a school, it should be based entirely on your test scores, job performance and any other qualifying attributes. They seriously need to delete the "race and gender" box on all applications.

Leatherneck,

I totally agree. That's what happened to my grandfather who worked for 46 years at the same company and trained the people who would supervise him, again, and again and again....because they were white.

Can we stop pretending that people of European decent didn't have a distinct advantage in this country since it was colonized almost 400 years ago. Affirmative Action for people of European decent was codified law in this country for most of our existence. When my own grandfather went to enlist in the Marine Corps in the 1940's he was turned away. That was before Montford Point. There were jobs he wasn't even ALLOWED to apply for no matter his qualifications.

You complain about Affirmative Action...try living through the Jim Crow Era in Alabama as a black man. Whatever, you guys only want to pretend like you want a "level playing field". Good for those firefighters, but what about the millions who were denied jobs, education, right to vote, and freedom of movement in this country?

So Marine Doc when AA was enacted did your Grandfather get the job he trained others to do?

No. He didn't. He was promoted a month before he retired.

That sucks MarineDoc, so AA didn't work for him.

It's not just the blacks that think "equality" is when when my race is treated better than all the others.

My skin colour and "plumbing system" don't make me more meritorious than you?

Yeah, but they aren't judged on their merits. Affirmative action is a prime example of it.

Affirmative action is nothing BUT discrimination. That means we have to hire minorities over whites whether they are better qualified or not. You want fairness, then let their be 100% fairness

See, while I agree with this case on it's merits, I don't see that it is damning of all affirmative action policies. Studies still show that blacks and hispanics (legal ones, for the purposes of this post) receive a lower quality education, have an overall poorer quality of life, and that impacts things like their ability to get into college or into a decent job. Those discrepancies need to be addressed before we can simply table any and all Affirmative Action plans.

However, in this case those discrepancies are irrelevant: all the firefighters in question attended similar training schools, if not the exact same ones, so equal access to job training is not a factor; they were up for promotion, which means that all the individuals had not only been successfully hired, but had also become eligible for and passed the examination for promotion, so equal access to job positions is not a factor; finally, the firefighters are government employees, meaning that the pay is essentially standardized based on position, so disparity in quality of life is not a factor.

Affirmative Action is not an evil thing when used to help accommodate for the obvious deficiencies that minorities face in education, social involvement, and job prospects, and it helps to provide a college level education or entry level job, but once that has been done, the playing field is equal, and no further preferential treatment should be given...

I agree that affirmative action is nothing BUT discrimination. I worked at a medical university for 5 years and they had what was called an "Office of Diversity". Any department who had a job opening was REQUIRED to show the Office of Diversity a list of applicants and their races that were interviewed for the job, and if there weren't enough minorities (non-whites) interviewed, then we were required to keep the position open until the interview quota was met. It didn't matter if there was a qualified candidate in the group or not. This was absolute sheer discrimination against qualified white applicants. Affirmative action should be abolished so there will be equality across the board - as it should be.

Just like how in the NFL if a coaching position comes open even if you know who you're going to hire you still have to interview a minority for the position.

Rev Lucifer's Reply is precisely correct. Nice piece of writing, Rev.

I disagree. Affirmative Action has led to a generation of lower standards as our schools have been dumbed down because some minorities couldn't pass the standard tests. The standards for gifted student programs have been lowered because of the lack of racial diversity which has resulted in even our most gifted students being forced to dumb down.

If a person of any race cannot meet the standards that the majority can then they need to improve, not take the ones that can down with them.

I agree FastZ, I've literally watched my daughter get dumber over the years so in order to battle it, I added to her schooling, it came back to bite us in the butt though, because now that she's in high school she's been accused of cheating at least 3 times by her English teacher for "using too big of words"

I would then have to call a meeting with the Principal and explain that as a "punishment" for her (the same one my mother gave me) was, when she would get in trouble, I would make her copy the dictionary literally word for word starting with the letter A and over the years she's gotten pretty far I still use it as a punishment, but at least she's learning something, and she's far enough ahead of the rest of her age group (she just turned 15 last month) she'll be graduating at the end of next year.

GeneralEclectic

I'm still waiting for WET == "White Entertainment TV"

If your envious of BET you have a problem - It has long since become a shell of what it once was.

It reinforces Stereotypes, Anyone Worth there Salt wont watch it.

I'm sure you don't want a TV channel that Stereotypes "white People" as Evil Native killing Cristian war mongers\Office Douchebags ALL the time do you?

I agree with you on this one Orly, I think ALL the music (to use the term loosely) channels have done this, I was watching the 100 most shocking music moments on VH-1 yesterday and one of them was about (crap can't think of the rapper) who wanted to name his new album "@!$%#" I was like WOW, why would you name your album something you yourself wouldn't like to be called??? He ended up leaving the album untitled when most music stores said they wouldn't carry it, if that was the title.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're black? How would you have felt had he been able to actually release the album under that name?

I know who your refering to the "rapper" his name is Nas. I consider him ok, in my books. There are better - Thats off topic though.

You asked a good question. His reasons involved taking "power" away from the word.

I dont advocate the use of the word, but im not sure if taking power away from it would work. Thats why im so divided on it... So right now Im sorry for not being able to give you a straight answer. I'll really have to sit on this one.

seems a lot of the thread has gone off topic ;)

I was thinking the same thing, would it actually take power from the word or would it just make more people feel the "need" (not sure that's the word I'm looking for) to use it, because somehow it would magically become "okay" Then I considered how I would feel as a white person, if some white guy came out with an album and named it "cracker" but it was apples and oranges knowing the history of the word cracker.

I'm never bothered by it when someone who isn't white uses the term toward me, though I will usually educate them on what it actually means, and let them know that all they've done is given me more power over them. Like I said apples and oranges.

I have very few black friends and the ones I do have are mostly gay Ron Paul supporters, so it's refreshing for me to be able to talk to others and see it from their side. Than you for the conversation Orly have a nice weekend.

I don't think you read the article. The white firefighters scored higher on the tests.

It was proven in a court of law that the city passed them over because they were white. It wasn't a seniority thing. It was a race thing.

The same thing happened in New Haven, Connecticut just a couple years back....the case had to go all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Unit - You get a check against you for not reading the article correctly.

Flying? For real? If so, I hope you read your approach charts better than this article!

Cheers

All this time I thought it was only certain groups that were allowed to drop the card.

Thank you... Either way this shouldn't happen.

Yea, that's what I was wondering, why is it called reverse discrimination? It just seems to me to be discrimination, period.

Amen, Mike.

I'm sorry it is "reverse discrimination" as long as we have "affirmative action" laws that favor a group of people.

Get rid of affirmative action laws and simply have in place discrimination laws.

As long as we have laws that favor any group of people we clearly are discriminating.

Mike, not until they stop using it. If your white and passed over because of race it is reverse discrimination.

Tell that to Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Luis Fericon, Michelle Obama, etc.

Re-read the rationale for the $500K. It is based on what he would have made during the time he was being discriminated against - not a one year salary.

Can I have my 2.5 seconds back? I just read your comment and it was the worst troll attempt ever.

David, if your white it is even more demeaning. Hence the word reverse discrimination. Because only WHITES can be racist. If I get a prisoner that's black and all he does is make racial statements against whites, I cannot separate him as a racist. But if he is white he is labeled a racist. Wake up and see the real world.

Combat, use any search engine you want. You will find that there is no black race or white race. Only Negro or Caucasion.

The rest of what you said is correct. Only Caucasions can be racists. However, in my six decades of life the most racist people that I have ever encountered have been Negro or Mexican.

You are a whining twit.

You know, I'm usually all for knocking Obama and others but why would they? Why bring that up? It would be a bad move because people would take their vote elsewhere.