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Scout snipers in the Marine Corps shown with a flag bearing an "SS" similar in design to one used in Germany by the SS, a paramlitary force that operated under the Nazi party.
SAN DIEGO -- The U.S. Marine Corps confirmed Thursday that a sniper team in Afghanistan posed for a photograph in front of a flag with a logo resembling that of the notorious Nazi SS.
Use of the SS symbol is not acceptable, and the Marine Corps has addressed the issue, Lt. Col. Stewart Upton said in a statement. He did not specify what action was taken.
Upton said the Marines in the photograph, posted on an Internet blog, are no longer with the unit. The picture was taken in September 2010 in Sangin province, Afghanistan.
The photo shows a flag with what appear to be the letters "SS" in the shape of jagged lightning bolts. The symbol resembles that used by SS units in World War II.
Another photograph, which showed a stylized “SS” on a rifle held by a Marine, also recently began circulating, the Marine Corps Times reported.
The SS, or Schutzstaffel, was the police and military force of the Nazi Party, which was distinct from the general army. Members pledged an oath of loyalty to Adolf Hitler. SS units were held responsible for many war crimes and played an integral role in the extermination of millions of Jews along with gypsies and other people classed as undesirables. The SS was declared to be a criminal organization at the Nuremberg war crime trials.
The Knights Armament Company blog published the photo in May 2011, and attributed it to Tayler Jerome, of the 1st recon BN Charlie Co.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation in Washington D.C., which found the picture online and alerted the Marine Corps Times, said it was outraged and wants a full investigation.
Foundation officer Mikey Weinstein said he has been flooded with calls from former Marines offended by the photo and from one member of his organization who is an Auschwitz survivor.
"This needs to be fully investigated. This is a complete and total outrage," he said.
War stresses to blame in Marine urination video?
Weinstein said his organization was sending a letter to the head of the Marine Corps and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
Master Gunnery Sgt. Mark Oliva, a spokesman at Camp Pendleton, Calif., said the photo was brought to the attention of the 1 Marine Expeditionary Force inspector general in November, and he found there was no intent on the part of the Marines to identify themselves with a racist organization.
Oliva said the investigation found that the SS symbol was meant to identify the Marines as scout snipers, not Nazis, but it was nonetheless not acceptable.
This is the second time this year the Marine Corps has had to do damage control for its troops' actions.
The Marine Corps is also investigating a separate group of Marines recorded on video urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban fighters.
Here is Upton's statement on the SS symbol, also called "runes." It was emailed to msnbc.com by Capt. Gregory Wolf, Marine Corps spokesman.
In November, the I MEF Inspector General became aware of the "SS" flag photo. They then received confirmation from the 1st Recon Battalion Commanding Officer in Afghanistan in November 2011 that several of the personnel in the photo were from 1st Recon Bn from the OEF 10.2 deployment (Afghanistan deployment in 2010). These Marines are no longer with the command. 1st Recon Bn is deployed forward again, but none of the personnel in the photo are still in the unit.
Certainly, the use of the "SS runes" is not acceptable and Scout Snipers have been addressed concerning this issue ("SS runes" are prohibited from use as a symbol or any other use).
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
Leave a Comment:
There seems to be far too many idiots in the armed services that are acting to destroy any good done with their anti-American attitudes and actions.
It's a scout sniper unit designation, not indicative nor representative of any nazi affiliation. @!$%# if the public knew about most of the unit designations that exist in the Marine Corps, the Corps wouldn't exist. Redeeming part, the public doesn't know. Nor should they.
There is a lot of symbols and flags that many civilians get bent out of shape over however know nothing of its meaning.... Arm chair professionals.....
Hey..we get the soldiers we need! dont train a man or woman to be a killer then expect flowers and chocolates!! The heroes have been at the front line living and dying for US!! The SS flag was over line if indeed they did have one BUT you also need to understand that these soldiers MUST have a way to release pressure. We dont get the soldiers we want...we get the soldiers we NEED! If you have not served in the armed forces then please dont even comment here!
Well, that is worse. My Father was in the D-Day landing and freed one of the concentration camps. The Nazis and what they stood for were one of the greatest blights known to modern man. If this country condones such symbolism, it should be ashamed of itself. So should the Marines. This is inexcusable and totally offensive.
Having traveled in Southeast Asia more than a few times, I have seen that same symbol all over the Hindu temples. Imagine if Hitler had picked the cross for his symbol, rather than the Hindu symbol...
Karaoke Jeebuz:
You're wrong on all accounts. The designation in the picture was the Runes, the ss symbol that the nazis used. As for unit designations, yes, when we send our men and women into combat to kill in our name, we should know.
You may like how the nazis did things last century, but many great Americans died to stop them. And you insult their memories and sacrifice with your un-American b.s. It is obvious that you never served, so STOP insulting the real soldiers by wrongfully using the Marines' Emblem.
SS also stands for Social Security . . . only a leftist media loon would bring up the nazi thing . . . had many in the laim-stream media today been alive in the 40's they would have been fans of the German Workers Socialist Party . . .
Who says MSNBC doesn't sensor and/or spin the "news"?
Notice the quote on MSNBC:
"This needs to be fully investigated. This is a complete and total outrage," he said.
On real news sites:
"Heads need to roll and this needs to be fully investigated. This is a complete and total outrage," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan-181322851.html
Perhaps the "outraged" liberal clearly spewing his personal vendetta against the soldiers as if he is judge, jury, and executioner sounded a little too hypocritical and Nazi-like himself.
Trying to apply your political correctness to Marines is laughable. I really doubt that anyone posting here has put themselves in harms way like this unit did for their country.
I'm inclined to cut them a little slack and simply say THANK YOU FOR SERVING and protecting my family, friends and fellow Americans!
Sure sounds like you were born yesterday.
Another story blown way out of proportion.
urban cowboy, i assume you were military. how do you justify these marines degrading what former marines were fighting against by glorifying the SS?
xdollz, by doing things like this and making other countries hate us they aren't protecting us they're making us more of a target.
These soldiers disgraced the hundreds of thousands of vets who served and died in WWII to stop the Nazis and destroy the SS. Glorifying the SS symbol is a slap in the face. Cut them some slack and say Thank You?? I think not.
Screw the "release pressure" justification - that's just asinine. Sex is great for releasing pressure, so why don't we let them rape a villager each week so long as we're on the pressure-release-justifies-anything road? And a bit of violent release soothes the nerves, too, so why not tell them they can strangle the biatch when they're done :D
And screw the don't-comment-if-you-haven't-served bit. You don't need to have been a cop to know that the Rodney King beating was wrong, you don't need to have been a judge to know that a judge who accepts bribes is dirty and belongs in jail, and you didn't need to have gone to medical school to know that a tonsil removal that results in a leg amputation is medical malpractice. Some things are just so obviously wrong that anybody with common sense can tell.
@XDollz - "Trying to apply your political correctness to Marines is laughable. I really doubt that anyone posting here has put themselves in harms way like this unit did for their country.
I'm inclined to cut them a little slack and simply say THANK YOU FOR SERVING!"
_____________________________________________________________________
Kiss my cammo a$$... As a veteran, it's not laughable at all. Members of our forces should be held to a higher standard - no exceptions. Otherwise we are no better than our enemies.
Mmm... I don't think people like you will understand until the day when you are sent into harms way in a foreign country and the bullets start flying past your head...
Is the flag inappropriate? YES. Welcome to America, welcome to planet Earth. You know what you get when everyone thinks the same? REAL NAZIS.
Come on, these guys are an elite unit. The SS were an elite unit.. that was probably the connection they were making. Stupid, but there it is... I really don't think these guys were thinking "we support putting humans in gas chambers.."
When I was in the 2/5 our !st Marine Div patch had the symbol of a white skull similiar to the Waffen SS skull...Soooooo. Similiar is not the same. Maybe we should make them all rainbows and unicorns???
Gimme a break from the PC police.
Khalid-2395974- the symbol is an official military insignia.... Looks similar to the SS but its not... Cool the jets bro.... Educate your self before you comment... and yes, if you never served and don't know what symbols are what then people need to zip it. It does make one laugh a bit to you see you guys get bent out of shape though ;)
Besides, knowing how much the Muslims hate Jews, they were probably just following orders to bond with the local people... LOL
Very few since most Marines were in the Pacific.
As to the runes to look like SS insignia, that being said, the major of fought honorably. Just as the majority of American soldiers at the same time of My Lia.
Don't for get unofficial motto of "Kill'em all, and let God sort'em out" adopted by the Marines and the Green Berets.
Isn't there anything else better to do than constantly look for ways to screw our troops!! Maybe they should all say "Screw you" and not enlist anymore. God knows it's not the money that they sign up for.
It means Scout Snipers....anybody that has any military background would probably know this.To the people that think its a direct "nazi"enhancement...get educated before you start ranting on about everyones being a nazi.Simply pathetic!Our men and women are over there losing thier lives so you can sit on your chair and accuse them of being nazis?You should be thrown on an island somewhere so you can all point and call each other racists because the sun is setting and the sky is getting black.You people that jumped on this "nazi" bandwagon dont deserve to be called Americans and should bow your head in shame for calling our brothers,sisters,moms and dads in the military nazis.Shame on you!
KJ....You've been eatin too much pogey bait! All that sugar has gone to head!
I see no real harm in the Marines peeing on the taliban dead. Afterall, did not the taliban drag a couple of dead guys through a village and hang em on a bridge - all on video ? This merely means it is not possible to insult them. They insulted everyone else first. Stylizing the initials of scout snipers to imitate the Nazi's shows really poor judgement. The freakin Nazi's are among the most hateful and sinful crowd that every walked. No American Commander anywhere since 1930's would want to carry such a flag in a military parade. They'd be ashamed and run from it and everyone would know why. I believe it is way past time to bring the boys home, let them have some stateside honors for doing an exellant job, give them a well deserved rest and refit. A grand parade honoring the troops is in order - but no Nazi look alike flags - please. Keep our people out of Iran and Syria.
I too am offended by the representation of the Nazi's symbols because of my Hebrew ancestry, but I am also Scandinavian "Viking" by most of my Ancestry and the swastika was a Scandinavian symbol of Thor's spinning hammer. Hitler was a stupid hypocrite he said blond hair blue eyes were superior while he had black hair brown eyes (of course all those blonds couldn't see that could they). He wanted to be a "Viking Warrior" and he clearly was not even Scandinavian. He hated Jews and he was half.........What a Moron. And a little history lesson the name Devil Dogs that the Corps boasts was given to them by the Nazi's because of the way they fought and the Devil Dog was the Dobermen not the Bull Dog so lighten up if the American public saw or knew half the meanings of the Militaries unit symbols or modos you would probably feel violated, so go back to your newspapers and cheerios and leave the fighting to the Warriors.
Sheeeesh......
Nah, another article to "degrade" our brave military men and women. I wonder when the ACLU or Rev. Jackson will get involved, or maybe some "passerby" comments by Mr. Carney.
It looks like lightning bolts to me. My Dad's armored (tanks) division had a similar shape on their symbol, fighting in the Battle of the Bulge. Get REAL for God's sake!
Unsane
You're talking about the swastika, which was indeed based on an ancient asian symbol, although the German version 'rotates' the other way.
This is about the double SS symbol. Different image. Look at the photo at the top of the article, which may not have been there when originally posted, sometimes they add photos later.
another major embarrassment for the military and Americans.
Pretty strange that any American would defend the Nazis, the SS, or the use of any of their symbols.
50 million people died because of the Nazi atrocity. Nazis were, and ARE, evil personified.
There are people in this country who want to bring back that evil philosophy. Mostly they use code words, or are just puppets, mindlessly repeating the propaganda they are too foolish to question.
But as before, they are doomed to failure in the long run.
They might be very brave, and they might be very patriotic, but they appear to be a few not so bright men.
Gim - that thing on the flag *is* the SS symbol, not something "similar". There are a gazillion different ways to write a double "S" abbreviation for "Scout Snipers", but choosing lightning bolts is a deliberate choice made with full awareness that those are the symbols of the SS. One would have to be shockingly ignorant, and especially so if in the military, to not be aware of what the double lightning bolts stand for. I can't think of a single soldier in my unit (and we were reservists, not even full timers) who wouldn't have known something so basic.
And obviously it wasn't "official" - all the Marine officials are scrambling to outdo each other in expressing how shocked they are, and denouncing that flag as unauthorized and wrong.
And take a good look at that photo - an all white unit flying a flag with SS lightning bolts on it, and you're seriously trying to explain it away as something other than what it obviously is? Screw their flag, screw them, and screw their service - it's not like there's a shortage of capable and decent Marines already in the Corps and in the pipeline who could replace them and do their job just as well.
If you don't get it, this is an insult to all the decent folk around the world who sacrificed to send the SS and what it stood for the dustbin of history. People like you might approve of the SS, but my grandpa fought those aszholes in WW2, and until the day he died, decades later, he still had bits of shrapnel in him. So if you're a Nazi sympathizer or trying to find justifications for making the SS flag and symbols OK again, screw you too.
@Karaoke Jebus it is morons like you who make me refer to myself as an "EX-MARINE" and proud to say I am an atheist. Our founding fathers were smarter than people like you tend to *dare I use the word* "think" and had major trust issues with religion. Most of them were Deists or Agnostics and properly did NOT extend the right to vote to most religious sects which includes the Catholics as well as Jews.
I'm really surprised. I would expect ANY Marine to have a good knowledge of military history. Enough to look at that and say " no, that ain't right "
I see no real harm in the Marines peeing on the taliban dead. Afterall, did not the taliban drag a couple of dead guys through a village and hang em on a bridge - all on video ? This merely means it is not possible to insult them. They insulted everyone else first. Stylizing the initials of scout snipers to imitate the Nazi's shows really poor judgement. The freakin Nazi's are among the most hateful and sinful crowd that every walked. No American Commander anywhere since 1930's would want to carry such a flag in a military parade. They'd be ashamed and run from it and everyone would know why. I believe it is way past time to bring the boys home, let them have some stateside honors for doing an exellant job, give them a well deserved rest and refit. A grand parade honoring the troops is in order - but no Nazi look alike flags - please. Keep our people out of Iran and Syria.
I am no fan of any use of this symbol by any unit. It disgraces the military as a whole and men like my father who served for 30 years and did three tours in Vietnam. The Waffen SS may have been bloody good fighters, but they were also ruthless murderers of captives and civilians. They and the rest of the SS were the embodiment of evil.
That said, this should not lead to discharge, but should at the very least result in a stern reprimand in their file.
M24s, AR10s, and M82s... OH MY!!
These guys ooze bad ass and can stand in front of any flag they damn well please. They don't care if your offended, they "find you offensive for finding them offensive". Its their job to make the enemy fear them however they can, to demoralize, to embarrass, to humiliate, its all war people. SCOUT SNIPER, SS, get it? Holy hell the picture wasn't for you, it was for them, it was for their families, it was just because they can. These guys are the cream of the marine crop and conduct themselves as such wither you like their methods or not.
First of all, the SS was not NAZI by the end of the war. The Gestapo was a different organization. Initially it was under Himmler, but was moved under Army control. By the end of the war, it basically included all elite combat units.
Second, the symbol is similar, but not the same. The Waffen-SS symbol is more extreme.
Well at least I'm sure we can all agree that the enemy is glad they're gone.
Good Grief
More dumb S**Ts who play soldier.
Wake up.
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." – Winston Churchill
looks like part of the band KISS logo. could it be???
"SS symbol was meant to identify the Marines as scout snipers, not Nazis"
These guys have earned the right to use any flag they want.......end of story.
I find it hard to believe that anyone serving in the Marine Corps could be so unaware as to not recognize this symbol, and it's historical meaning. There's political correctness, and there's literally posing with the brand of a reviled, genocidal regime.
Good Lord, people, the symbol stands for scout sniper. I can't believe some of the comments being made, here! Now, if it was a swastika, like the one some idiot drew on my son's locker in Iraq, that's a different story. There is no mistake about the message being sent, there and although it resembles the Nazi symbol, that is not the way it's being used here. My son, when he was in the Army, brought home a young man he went to school with, who was now serving in the Marines. He had this symbol tatooed on his calf. Now, I've known this young man since he was a snot-nosed kid in middle and high school. When I spotted it, I asked him, "What is that"? He told me it was for the sniper unit he used to be in. End of story.
Although there are some real nut cases in the military, there is no way I'm going to believe that these young men used this symbol to demonstrate anything other than pride in the efficiency and marksmanship of their unit. I'll tell u what, I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a weapon in their sites!
And be thanful to these men, because you know what? I wouldn't take a bullet for any of you and I doubt any of you would for me!
dadoftim - Your short quote says it all, way to go. www.thewarriorsong.com
No John, what there is are too many friggin idiot morons that live to make an issue out of anything to erode the morale and espirit de corps of our men and women who are fighting a war. kat - you summed it up pretty good. Anyone who finds offense, especially neandertal goons like those in the Military Religious Freedom Foundation who want nothing less than NO religion in the military, deserve to be air dropped in the Tora Bora for a month with a BB gun. Only way to shut them the friggin up since our politicians are too gutless to make them crawl back into the caves from whence they came. This kind of stupidity in morons also attacking the integrity our fighting forces is why this country will never win another war. We get angry when Marines piss on fundamentalist assh— _es and ignore the enemy when they cut the heads off of our troops while they're still alive.
Since they no longer teach history in school and when they do it is usually revised is it possibly that these very young soldiers just didn't make the connection. Come on give them the benefit of the doubt. They are putting their lives on the line daily so that we don't have to defend ourselves in our own country against the butchers who behead people; crash planes into buildings and kill thousands; blow themselves up in the name of "Allah" and proclaim Israel - a sovereign country - doesn't even have the right to exist.
WAKE UP AMERICA you are allowing the propagandists who print this stuff like NBC to win - where is the editorial integrity and loyalty to our country?
I am tired of a President who is destroying our way of life; giving in to terrorists; decimating our military; attacking our religious institutions; and in general spouting nonsense.
If you want to get up in arms about something how about asking ATTy Holder about the free pass he gave the New Black Panthers in Philadephia who discouraged voters at the polls during a recent election which was filmed and broadcast widely on some stations that are unbiased and who only report the news. The same ATTY Holder who will not even apologize for illegal gun running to Mexico and is clearly responsible for the death of a border guard - WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE OVER THAT UNSPEAKABLE ACT??
I...can't really find a reason to give a @!$%#. I can understand why people would be upset. But what do you want? Jail time? For one picture that may or may not have been a Nazi reference? Lose their benefits? Over one picture? After risking their lives in that hell hole? C'mon, people.
These guys knew what that flag represented and what they represent. I heard someone saying blowing off steam via this or peeing on the taliban and such. Well if you take it to the logical conclusion there are alot more ways of blowing off steam also that has been done in war. Rape, murder, theft, to name a few and all of that is considered a war crime. The reason we don't want to make it alright and okay to do what they do is the next time it will be kicked up another notch by the enemy or US in there disrespect. Our soldiers may kill a whole village in order to retaliate (what you say, this has been done before and in fact even in this war?, the shock). Now lets look at this from the standpoint of a black soldier or jewish one that happens to see this in his unit. Can he trust those individuals anymore that they will cover him in combat, how does he know. The are showing a symbol of a totalitarian regime that killed millions and also their grandfathers fought against to stop. These little sweethearts are doing Hitler proud, his legacy still exists. You have to wonder how far the legacy has gone in our society? As I said before, the US will be talked about in a hundred years like we talk about the Nazi regime now. We have seen the enemy and it's turning out to be us, it truly is.
@Mitch -- what the He!! are you going on about? Do you even understand the meaning of the word "loyalty"?
Well Karaoke Jesus
As a Veteran, a citizen and a taxpayer, I do want to know what the units are doing and saying. It is no longer a military of citizens (the draft ended) it is a Professional Militaryand it needs to be monitored.
Too many people with too much time on their hand looking in every corner of the world for some sort of conspiracy. There was no "intent" in any of the Marines to bring descredit upon themselves, the Corps, nor was there any "intent" to copy the sick Nazi SS or agree with what they stand for. I am certain had they used a different "Font" some nut job would have still twisted the truth to make something out of nothing.
1) How about some critical thinking?
2) How about having a little trust in the IG for doing his/her job. I know and trust, from personal experience, that they do a good job. Had there been some sort of malice, they would have found it.
3) To all the people of every race, religion, color, etc. etc. who have been persecuted, quit crying. We know you were wronged, but haven't we all been at some point in time, move on.
Maybe it's time to rethink the symbol. But to blame these guys when I have found that insignia used in more than a few photos in official sites is unfair.
No excuse. When you put on that uniform, you represent the United States of America. There is no room for this @!$%# in a professional military of a democratic state, and these marines know better.
Read and heed, nasties. Suck it up
Hell the Hell's Angels were a P-51 fighter squadron in Europe during WW-II the flying skull was their insignia. They were sent to March AFB after the war and started their club in Fontana. Go tell THEM to knock it off.
I think there is a cultural separation, and a chance for some understanding on both sides. Those who are old enough (or historied enough) to know the true horror that these symbols represent are offended. A younger generation is now serving as trained, professional bad-asses, and like fighting units before them need common symbols and camaraderie to perform at the lethal, high level our country demands from its armed forces. To ignore either of these perspectives is wrong.
Yes, it is rightly offensive to some people. No, I doubt it was meant (or aimed) the way it is being taken. Tell the soldiers they shouldn't use this symbol and explain why it is offensive to many in the country they serve. Use a little common sense, and that's about as far as this should go.
They just need a better artist for their logo.
Ok people, listen up, you may learn something here. The symbols - the "double s" as many are mistakenly referring to them as, actually come from the Norse runes known as "Futhark". The symbol is the equivelent to the modern English "s", and is called Sowelu (there are variations to the spelling, depending on what area you visit). The ACTUAL MEANING of that symbol is Wholeness, and refers to The Sun, Life Force and Victory. These runes were developed and used literally centuries before Hitler was ever even a thought, and are STILL in use by those who follow the old religion. That symbol, and many others Hitler chose to steal from various religions are no more offensive than the Star of David if used in their correct context. Problem is, no one wants to bother to learn what that context is! I suspect people don't even care what the "truth" is, they're too busy looking for a reason to be offended. Truth is, as long as you continue to give things like stolen religious symbols this kind of power, the people who really do still follow Hitler (for reasons I cannot fathom I might add) will continue to win.
MonkeyMo... you figure these Marines were referencing the ancient Norse runes "Futhark"? That's more of a stretch than if they intended to reference the Nazi SS. But thanks for the history lesson, glad to know there are those willing to sacrifice their time for me to learn something only tangentially related to the topic at hand.
Ha! It's the double heat symbol...as in " bringing the heat!" We're so stoopid we condemn even ancient symbols!
The runes in question have been used my many cultures, why link them only to one evil group? In this case the guys picked a rune that looked like “SS” to symbolize they are “Scout Snipers”. I've seen that Rune used with one that looked like a P for SP or the Navy's Shore Patrol. Military units like their symbols as do other nonmilitary organizations. Just because it has used by one group of evil bastards does not make the symbol evil.
The best example of this is the Swastika, first time I went to India I was outraged at all the Swastikas you see there. I ask one of my guides what was up with the “Nazi Crap”. He quite politely told me I was ignorant of the culture and that the Swastika was in fact an ancient symbol of peace and love and was tens of thousands of years old. The Nazi’s used it for a speck of time (20 years) and as luck would have it they used it wrong. So should we demand that the Swastika be expunged because it was used by an evil group? No! Instead we should put it up admire it and ridicule the dirt bags who figured it was a good symbol for fascist German.
So put your stupidity away, thank these guys for the job they do, and stop showing you’re too ignorant of the past to recognize a rune for a rune!
Big deal its like a gang color, as long as they do their jobs who the hell cares ...
Here is a photo of a WWII Nazi SS Flag Tell me that they are not the same. I served 20 years army and a Gulf War Vet. Here is the link: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ss+flag&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLL_enUS388&biw=1152&bih=454&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsu&tbnid=RyrFt_QEWhEtiM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/German-WWII-Flag-Battle-Runes/dp/B004G04TB6&docid=BZSv5balbLZxYM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Wp0CMnGrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=51s0T9uCH4yWtweKvpWaAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=468&sig=116957829055029997836&page=10&tbnh=124&tbnw=124&start=156&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:156&tx=110&ty=90
IReadyou:
YOU WROTE: "The freakin Nazi's are among the most hateful and sinful crowd that every walked. No American Commander anywhere since 1930's would want to carry such a flag in a military parade. They'd be ashamed and run from it and everyone would know why."
MY RESPONSE: You may not realize this, but the US Army's 45th Infantry Division wore a swastika shoulder patch for 15 years - into the 1930's - as their unit identifier. I'm assuming they probably marched in parades somewhere at some time with the full approval and glowing pride of their commanding officers. The shoulder patch was later redesigned and replaced by a thunderbird herald because Adolf Hitler gave the swastika a new, sinister meaning.
If you don't believe me, check out this website for documentation:
http://www.m38a1.com/Misc-MV/thunderbirds.htm
Oh, by the way, the swastika symbol adorns many tombstones in India (I think) where it is considered a "good luck" sign.
The problem with war is that it kills part of our humanity. Taking the life of other human beings with sniper rifles must take a horrific toll. This symbol is so egregious that it is illegal in many European countries. If any military unit adopts a symbol, it should require approval by appropriate authorities to assure that the unit is not becomming morally degenerate (it happens) or that they are so young/ignorat/naieve that they don't realize that they have chosen something with such a dark and tarnished history.
The military is nothing more than a microcosm of American society. Nothing more, nothing less!
John, hate to say it, but yes when a sinister, evil group uses a symbol for their evil, sinister purposes, it does kind of ruin the rune for everyone else that knows what it means. I wouldn't really expect a traditional religious/cultural swastika in India to be taken down, but in the western world where we associate the swastika with Naziism, it has pretty clear meaning. Are you seriously implying walking down the street with a jacket emblazoned with swastikas or SS symbols should be acceptable, because you could just explain to everyone "that's not what I meant"? Gimme a break. I get it, some of you got schooled in India or wikipedia; doesn't change the social norms.
I can't believe the post you are collapsing. You are going way too rediculous. Check post 1.5 and tell us, please, why a post like that is collapsed. Unless a post uses profanity, threats, intimidation, etc. they should not be collapsed.
commonnsense - where did you get the figure "50 million" ?
WOW - so many comments are collapsed that are referencing our service in WWII and the fight against the Nazis. It appears that history is being intentionally dismissed while ignorance is being vindicated. You know who else has this behavior are the Neo-Nazis and their denial of the Holocaust. Keep up your fear, hatred and prejudice and you might have the civil and/or world war you are so desperate to have.
Al in Vegas: What if they have chosen the "Southern Cross" flag?
pic or it didn't happen.
So the world didn't exist before the camera was invented? We should overhaul the court system so that no evidence can be admitted unless it's a pic of the perp committing the crime.
Haven't been on the internet long, have you? :)
Pics or shens.
We have drug dealers buying cops, the government supplying guns to drug cartels - and we're worried about Marines taking pictures in front of a flag with a symbol on it (albeit a bad symbol, but still no harm was done).
I guess I'm the only one who gets the meme.
PC509a, I was reading some of the comments earlier today about the guy who shot a cop dead in NYC. Not a soul said, "pics or shens." Please explain the double standard. (And yes, I do know that a cop killer is WAY worse than these Marines.) If the crime is more severe, then we demand less evidence, perhaps??
"Haven't been on the internet long, have you? :)" I think I'm beginning to understand the logic. Now that the internet's been invented, we need photographic evidence of minor transgressions. If it's a major crime however, no photo evidence needed. And if you disagree, then you're inexperienced in the ways of the internet and you're opinion is seen as idiotic.
who, other than you, zupe, said anything about evidence?
look up internet rule #11. it's clearly stated there.
while you're at it, look at this meme as well.
Zupercram - No, not at all. It's just a popular internet meme. We don't REALLY need pics - it's not a serious request. I am fairly experienced in the ways of the internet (not 4Chan experience, mind you)...
The SS almost looks like the KISS logo, and the KI fell off.
It's a typographic font. Admittedly, it was used by the Nazis. Would someone have been happier is it was something a little less historical? I truly don't know if it was used intentionally or not--I'm betting on NOT. Most of these guys currently serving are three generations away from the Nazi regime, and they probably have little or no idea what any particular symbols (or fonts) mean, perhaps other than a swastika.
Our armed serviced folks are the greatest folks in the world. They may not always be the brightest on some subjects, but they are the best we have. I think a little education is all that is needed on this incident.
I thank each and everyone of them for their service.
PC509a, OK, so you guys were kidding, duly noted. I thought it was easy pickins for my BS Annihilator (it's an app on my smartphone). Oh well, onto some other comments that defy logic...
My guess is "Jerk" never heard of Photoshop....
liz, not only have i heard of it, but i use the design premium suite. so +1 fail assumption for you.
and just so you know, when i posted my original comment, msnbc hadn't yet posted the pic. which is why i posted my comment. because there was no pic. hence my comment.
msnbc probably did that on purpose to make your fail possible. but that's just an assumption on my part.
Lol @ Kosmo
This website isn't completely full of old people y'know. ;)
Not sure what the rest of you are seeing but it looks like The U.S. Flag with the adopted Scout Sniper Flag under it. Awful lot of crying going on here over nothing.
Semper Fi!
Good God, will someone at NBC pleeeeeeeese grow a brain. I'm looking at the picture and I don't see a Nazi flag. These guys are beyond the Enquirer for BS garbage headlines.
PC509a,
Your so right! The KI could actually be in smaller print and just obstructed. It's obviously a slow news day.
What am I missing? People are offended at the sight of a flag because of the connotation it might have with past histories. Yet those same people have a memorial in this country with vivid and graphic images exacted on people in a different country. What that is saying to me is "let's only remember one side of the story."
Since we find it noteworthy to have a memorial for those exterminated by an extremist group where are the memorials to those exterminated by the Khmer Rouge, those exterminated in Dharfur, etc.? Or is there some minimum magical number before we put a memorial in DC?
Maybe you should read something 2 or 3 times before you start suggesting others grow a brain.
Where do you read Nazi flag? It could have been a Barracks flag.
The issue is the SS Runes which are prohibited for our troops to use.
According to Lt. Col. Stewart Upton:
In case you are unfamiliar with the use in WW2 here is a picture of a helmet:
http://www.militaryheadgear.com/system/photos/000/012/808/large/SS_%22Double_Runic%22_M-40_Steel_Helmet.jpg?1274192445
Do you see the similarity?
No matter what, they were PROHIBITED from using it, and used it anyway.
A few not so bright men should get in trouble for that reason alone.
The symbols indeed look like the Nazi SS "sig runes," not the Nazi flag. The question is, was this intentional? If so, another black mark against them; if not, why make a big todo over it now. Either way, let it go.
Those Marines should've known better. It was the same as using a swastika, and there are still people living today who remember what evil those symbols represent. I at first couldn't believe my eyes...I though Marines were smarter than that, but considering the dumbing down of America by the liberals, I guess I should be surprised that they even know what World War II is.
They probably just thought it looked cool and made them look like badas*es. The Waffen SS used that same font for exactly the same reason: to increase the Esprit de Corps of the unit.
The runes in question have been used my many cultures, why link them only to one evil group? In this case the guys picked a rune that looked like “SS” to symbolize they are “Scout Snipers”. I've seen that Rune used with one that looked like a P for SP or the Navy's Shore Patrol. Military units like their symbols as do other nonmilitary organizations. Just because it has used by one group of evil bastards does not make the symbol evil.
The best example of this is the Swastika, first time I went to India I was outraged at all the Swastikas you see there. I ask one of my guides what was up with the “Nazi Crap”. He quite politely told me I was ignorant of the culture and that the Swastika was in fact an ancient symbol of peace and love and was tens of thousands of years old. The Nazi’s used it for a speck of time (20 years) and as luck would have it they used it wrong. So should we demand that the Swastika be expunged because it was used by an evil group? No! Instead we should put it up admire it and ridicule the dirt bags who figured it was a good symbol for fascist German.
So put your stupidity away, thank these guys for the job they do, and stop showing you’re too ignorant of the past to recognize a rune for a rune!
OMG, But shoot holes in a Obama T shirt and the SS (secret service) is right on it! Guess its: Do as I say, not as I do. This whole article is a joke.
These men were in Afghanistan serving their country and protecting our right to sit here and piss and moan because we are offended by their "flag".
Did anyone else notice that their is a black guy in the pic? So I HIGHLY DOUBT this is suppose to be racist SS stands for scout sniper and it is a sick ass flag but happen to be used by a bunch of @!$%#s (Nazis)
They should have used a flag of the Jesus Christ grilled cheese sandwich.
What's bothersome is not this incident or that incident or another incident. What is bothersome is the longer we stay there the more incidents start popping up and the closer together they are. Maybe the stress of 10 years plus of combat is catching up with our military. We have over extended our military drastically. It's time to bring our soldiers home.
Frankly, I wish there were no photos of our military at all in Afghanistan. Come home safely and soon men and women. The article I believe is 99.99% most likely ridiculous and there was no association at all with the ss. Yet by publishing this on msn the rest of the world will have a field day with it. I'm sorry that the Nazi regime over half a century ago adopted anything resembling such a logo. Swastika shaped logos date back thousands of years in ancient culture particularly in Indian culture and the relgious affiliations of Buddhism, Hinduism and I think Janism...Its also a Chinese character representing eternity and Buddhism (hardly hateful). I know of the terrible symbolism a swastika or anything resmbling it still evokes but really I don't think that was the intent in this photograph which will surely now go global thanks to that article
Oh yeah and the rock group KISS were nazi's. Remember that logo?? I didn't see anybody complaining about it then. Gene Simmons is Jewish probably had a part in the making the logo. C'mon people, wheres the f'n common sense? Just another chance to talk bad about our boys.
SS = SCOUT SNIPER
Get it ?
Unlike some people whose full time occupation seems to be to find out things to be outraged at and offended by, these marines were in Afganistan doing a job.
This controversy is completely nuts. PC has certainly become a disease. People don't realize that by bringing these non issues to the forefront and making a large hue and cry about them they dilute, trivialize and erode the credibility of real incidents of racism and bigotry which are actually deserving of our outrage.
hey neighbor! if anyone should be immune to the dumbing down inflicted by liberals it would be the boys in the pic. nah...they did it all themselves.
John
The Swastika IS a very ancient symbol.
There was even a town from the early 20's in Oregon named Swastika.
The 'SS' symbol is not ancient, as far as I know. Do you have a reference to an older use?
The Germans did borrow the Single 'S' shape from an occult group then they doubled it up to form the 'SS'.
The 'SS' was unique to the Germans. Originally it stood for 'Saal-Schutz'.
Himmler renamed the group 'Schutz-Staffel' (Schutzstaffel).
As a group the Schutzstaffel was THE major group responsible for the war crimes.
Considering the accusations against our military by many throughout the world is that REALLY who we want to be associated with?
I was in the military and I also studied history in school. I did not recognize the SS logo in the photo to be that of Nazi origin. I would suspect that most 20yr old Marines(before this incident) did not know either. If they did and created the flag, they were wrong. If they did not know, this was an excellent chance to help educate them and others on this symbol, and others that could be offensive.
Leave the Marines alone!
The media should stick to is normal forte, you know the really important things like politics, racism, gay marriage, abortion, child abusers, animal rights and so no and so forth.
Our military has enough to worry about without interference from those who know little about defending our country. Who cares what kind of flag they display as long as they get the job done.
AIPAC working over time here
Like the swastika, an ancient INDIAN symbol.
Get over it are we now going to erase Asian INDIAN history because some lunatic used it many hundred years later?
Get real
I think it is another classic case of people making something out of nothing. I seriously doubt they are posing with their flag in support of the Nazi movement. They defend our freedoms and this is how they are thanked..... People need to find something better to do with their time then to find fault with our service men and women. It is one thing to video tape or snap a picture of people being attacked or killed (innocent or not) and posting it and it is a completely different thing to take a picture with the people who have your back when you are putting yourself in harm’s way for the country and people that you love. Let’s try thanking these guys first before we start condemning them of something that someone else has taken out of context.
Somebody says, "there's a Black guy in the picture" .... where? I don't see one. Looks like a lot of red/tanned White guys in the sun.....
Those Marines can posed with anything all I care..but a Romney 2012 sign!
USMC is ok..but the best is ARMY!
John W
If you were in Nam you should know better.
Why feed the propaganda machine?
We have done some things over there we should not be proud of.
Many people in the world consider us to be war criminals.
Then we align ourselves with the one group that committed more war crimes during WW2 than anyone else?
Stupid Stupid Stupid
My son is Army in Afghanistan (second time). He also has been to Iraq. He is married with children. His job is difficult enough with out getting folks all fired up.
"The Scout Snipers have adopted the "SS" banner, slightly resembling the World War II German Waffen-SS insignia. (This has recently been brought to the attention of the USMC command and is being dealt with. Official USMC policy does not allow the use of any Nazi or other racist symbology by individual Marines or Marine units.)"
To me its not a big deal after all they do for our country!
If every SS trooper had not worn this specific symbol on the collar tabs of his uniform, the adoption of this particular stylized symbol might not have the historical significance it presents, however we the United States had a small conflict with people who wore that symbol on their collar tabs and these boys know the history of their 'officially adopted symbol' and as such have violated their oaths and are no longer fit to wear the uniform.
When they first issued out the "new" kevlar helmets to us back in 1986, I thought people were ging to crap themselves. To me they looked too much like the German helmets from WW2. No one seemed to be to concerned. We didnt turn into "Nazis" because our helmets looked like them, sooo I guess it would have been an issue if the internet were around back then...
@ lilian101..when you get your butt in a war zone..you can decide what you want as a symbol..if its Howdy-Doody or whatever..they are the ones figjhting these stupid wars...and have the rights in my book..hell with the past history BS!
Not to go into racism about this..but Jewish people will find this offended of course. But they are not there risking their lives ( some might be jewish..doubt they care in battle).
First of all, the word "swastika" is a sanskrit word originating in India. But the so called "swastika used by germans varied greatly from the religious symbol used by all hindus around the world to usher in peace, luck and tolerance to every home. The german symbol is at 45 degree angle, hindu swastika is like a cross. Moroever in the Hindu symbol, we have a dot (total of 4) that sit inside the cross. If the german nazi symbo is any way close to any other symbol, it is more closer to the christian cross than to any hindu symbol. Unforutnatley, since Hitler identified himself with aryans and he wrongly assumed that hinduism was an aryan religion, he used the name "swastika" to identify the symbol. So please stop associating german swastika with the hindu one. Many hindus and other indians fought alongside the british and the allies against german and japanese invasions during WWII.
Errr... Marine Snipers were using the SS symbol for Scout Sniper back when I was in (87-91) .. some of them even had it branded on their leg.. and now its a big deal?
I don't get why people are making such a big deal about it, honestly. It's a flag, and it doesn't mean they are Nazis or anything like that. Hell, I would pose for a picture with a flag like that, because it's interesting, not because it's something I believe in.
Hobgob - Its a "big deal" now because of the Liberalization of America, reality no longer matters, making sure everyone feels good and "nice" about everything all the time is what matters.
They would feel much better if our military personal who are trained to kill and who need to kill posed with flags of hello Kitty or rainbows, despite the resulting cost of lives resulting from having such pansies as our line of defense.
pjam09, your comment is by far the stupidest thing I've read all day. But take heart, the day is young!
It's a big deal because America went to war with, and lost 100's of thousands of lives fighting those SS bastards...a little skirmish called Dubya Dubya 2. So yeah, glorifying their symbol is a slap in the face to all Americans...those in the military today, veterans who fought and died, and the average Joe citizen who cares about what America stands for.
Really?
Given how much we spend to train Scott Snipers, they should a lot smarter than to reuse SS runes. Just dumb.
But I have to agree, in the big picture this and the pissing are meaningless.
That's just crazy. I think the Hello Kitty or Barbie would be more threatening. These guys do a hard job in a place we shouldn't even be. They worry about IED's and their buddies lives. So cut them some slack. I am sick of all the money spent on "full investigations" of little puddles of poop. Let the marines handle it, leave these guys alone unless you want to take their place.
Given historic association, the use of the SS symbol is thoughtless, careless and conveys a less than desirable attitude. Being in the service is not a license to act disgracefully and disrespectfully, regardless of the circumstances. Unit patches are a good thing and many do not invoke such deep feelings of hatred. This is a total lack of good judgement.
When did you fight the SS MmmMmmBeer? Oh you didn't? Why are you offended again? Derpderp. My unit's snipers rocked an SS flag in Iraq too in 06-07 and I just happen to think its a cool looking symbol.
Cyrax, I didn't have to fight to be offended. My grandfather, an American Jew, fought and he is offended by this. I am Jewish, obviously, I am offended that the troops I support would choose this symbol to rally around. Learn to read...it's clearly spelled out in my original post...I am offended because this is NOT what America or Americans (military or otherwise) should stand for. I have more respect for my country and fellow citizen than that.
It may be "cool" to you but it has inflammatory and historic meaning to veterans and American citizens. You don't have to fight to understand that.
And Cyrax, thank you for your service. Although I hope you personally did not "rock" the SS flag while serving.
If the SS on that flag was the abbrevation for safe sex for sissies, these ignorant nazi morons wouldn't have posed for this disgusting photograph
Anyone have pictures of the Marines "SS" flag on parade - with officers in attendance ? I didn't think such a thing was possible but if there is a picture and the Officers think it is a fine thing to do..............I may have to change my comments.
How would you react if a Marine unit flew a swastika? This is NO BETTER.
@ Sean, The media seemed to have no problem when the idiots from OWS started burning American flags. Where the hell was the outrage then? This is PC gone way too far ane someone has a very vivid imagination. Someone also has way too much time on their hands and an agenda. I'll put my support behind the military.
@pjam - my two sons served in the military. One is a disabled Iraqi vet, a Liberal, and would kick your azz (without ever getting out of his wheelchair). Of course, his younger brother, who served multiple tours in Afghan would probably do it first (he's a Liberal, too).
@Griff, although I agree with what OWS stands for, I don't care for their tactics (very misguided), but, the Constitution protects their right to burn any flag, including the US flag. I didn't like the Neo Nazis parading down my street, either, BUT... they have that right under that piece of paper that protects us all.
You see, that's one thing about we Liberals --- we can certainly dish it out, but we can take it, too. As long as it's protected by that oh, so wonderful piece of paper called The Constitution, it's okay by me.
kat,
I support their right to express themselves in any way shape or form. But I don't have to like it. And I don't like this.
Griff,
There was outrage. The least outrage I saw were comments along the lines of "I support OWS, but I really can't support this. It's making me second guess my support."
@Prag - show me where I said you had to like it.
When the Nazis paraded down my street, I shut my door and closed my windows (didn't want to breathe the same air) until it was over. I respect The Constitution and I believe it is one the most brilliant documents ever written. A copy of it sits above my mantle, and my two sons grew up with it hanging on their bedroom walls.
So now it is apparently PC to be against nazi symbols? The SS had this logo, they were nazis, war criminals and our enemy. If you use the symbol you show at least some sympathy for their movement.
I personally have no problem with the SS flag. Most of the Nazi symbols were adopted from other cultures and places anyway. The "deathhead" symbol was used by the SS too, but I don't see anybody screaming about the use of skull symbols in our culture.
Those brave Marines defend our country and it's high time we started defending them.
I find it incredible that we give some much power to some group of people who stumbled across this picture after if had been online for almost a year and let them start a witch hunt because their feelings were hurt. Maybe they shouldn't go on that website if they don't like it....
If you ask a man to be willing to look into a high power scope and snatch a mans life away while you watch, you should be willing to cut him some slack.
If we give a man the authority to look through a high-power scope and snatch a man's life away (whether or not anyone is watching), one would hope that the man and the organization he is working with have some common sense.
It's not wise to use the symbol of the SS--it is simply not wise. I would hope that someone who is an officer had enough military history background to recognize it and realize it is unwise.
There are many other symbols that they might use to distinguish themselves--this one just makes them look like historically-uninformed morons. I really don't think that they are morons--but it is better that they avoid the appearance, don't you think?
I don't see why people are assuming the worst in everything that the media surfaces these days. If anyone is interested, look up Occham's Razor. With that, it states that the most simple explanation is usually, and in most cases, the correct one. Now are you telling me that these Marines, voluntary defendors of our country, and my brothers in arms, are secret Nazis trying to force their ideas onto others???? Or, is it that they have been using that flag for many years and that it's only an abbreviation for SCOUT SNIPER with a suggestive font........ It seems to me that some people are unaware that the modern day journalists twist things to make them look a certain way, just to make a good story.
They should have known better. Everyone knows what that particular style of SS on a black flag is, at least if you passed your high school history classes or ever watched any TV program about WW2 Germany. Our service personnel should avoid using any Nazi or Confederate imagery that is just common sense. The Marine Recon Battalions use a totenkopf style symbol on their unit badges. Except those death's head insignia are not the exact style of the Nazi SS death's head. This flag was a exact copy that's what makes it a bad idea and offensive.
It's as simple as font selection.
Any other 'style' of S would have been acceptable. No doubt they liked it because of the bad a$$ message it sends. Understandable, but not acceptable. Change it, move on.
"It's high time we started defending them." GOOD LORD, NO, there is no defending this behavior.
The deliberate use of the SS runes, which it surely was, is absolutely inexcusable! These Marines just wanted to portray themselves as badasses, but there's a world of ways to do that without sporting this symbol of unspeakable horror that is hated worldwide, except by actual Nazis and the intolerably ignorant. These Marines need a major history lesson, and if that fails to enlighten them, they should be drummed out of the Corps.
That symbol is only cool to someone with a 13-year-old mentality and no sense of world history. The swastika was originally a symbol of life from ancient Egypt, but no one today can honestly say they don't think of Hitler and the Nazis when they see it. You, and every Marine who have used the "SS" symbol after what our grandfathers went through fighting everything that symbol stood for, should be ashamed of yourself for your lack of historical understanding.
When you wear the uniform, it's more than just an article of clothing. It's a representation of your unit, your service, your country, and everything that the people who bled and died wearing them stood for. If you want to express your individuality, ditch the dog tags, pull a hoodie over your head and go to a liberal arts college. You are supposed to be representing the United States of America when in uniform, and your actions reflect upon all of us back home. Don't shame us by acting like children.
Woo-Hoo, Neighbor! Nailed it.
@pjam, in reference to your post #3.2, the word is personnel, not personal. And to think, you had the nerve to bust someone else's chop for mixing up "your" and "you're" (see #11.1).
@Neighbor -- Liberal Arts are people, too!
I second you neighborofthebeast. Those of you who post before doing a little reading up on world war II, Hitler's Germany. The slaughtered by the SS of Germany is HUGE. For the US military to pose with that flag is an insult to everyone that fought in WWII and our country.
Kat - You're right. I also "busted his chops" for typing "moth" instead of "mouth".
I "have the nerve" for lots of things, thanks for paying attention.
So Germany uses an eagle as a national symbol should we change our national bird? Obviously no! Who cares if they had a flag with SS on it.
BINGO, Sean, you are 100% correct (#3.33). That is the only acceptable way to dispose of the American flag. How much you wanna bet that most of these flag-waving, get out of my country-talking, I'm-a patriot-and-you're not-because-you're-liberal folks didn't even know that!
These folk talk out of their azzes, and if they really knew what was in the Constitution, I wonder how they would feel.
Now, as for your second post (#3.34) --- not so crazy about that one. There may be some psychos in the military, but most are not there getting their "jollies." Most of those kids really love this country. There is nothing "jolly" about being in that sh!t hole. It's a horrific job and frankly, I couldn't do it. So, I tip my hat to all who can because as I said in my other post --- I wouldn't take a bullet for anybody (except my kids).
I was trained as a Marine Scout Sniper (hence, "SS"). during the 1980's. The logo in the picture was being used back then. Military orgainizations either network or copy each other. It doesn't mean ceratin doctrine or beliefs are copied as well.
Saw on TV news that the runic "SS" for scout sniper has been around for a long time but it was always unofficial. Marines get tattoos of it, T-shirts, Flags they keep mostly among themselves. This one went viral on the internet and now there is a hubbub. So the officials at HQ are forced to declare it out of bounds. Reporter also said that young people - that would include Marines - don't seem to know that the lightning bolt SS is a Nazi sign, and therefore they could use it not knowing the connection. Chalk up another loss to the education system for dumbing down the curricula and not teaching history. The statement was another way of saying our young folks are uneducated but not evil.
Maybe it was a KISS logo and somebody was blocking the "KI" part?
hahahahaha
haha that was my guess until the headline told me what to think.
BFD.......
You are a moron. Read a book some time.
Read a book? maybe you should get some common sense, troll
When did you lose your humanity? I hope before you take your last breath in this life that you find it once again. You may need it in the next life.
the freight train, three words isn't worth this. You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
tyler: Do you think that maybe you could anticipate that any article which involves military personnel engaging in misbehavior will stimulate disrepectful comments along the lines of."if you haven't served, you have no right to criticize." It's the same stupid response every time. Any comment with that brainwashed platitude in it , should be deleted by you, as an example of disrespect, and the commentor suspended.
Paul at 5.5 - I agree. I'm all for free speech and no censorship, but maybe in this case I'd even suggest a big warning on the 1st page with reminders of what is acceptable - instead of ending up with 20 pages of the same thing. A lot of what I've read does no honor to the military or the U.S.A. or to service members who serve honorably.
? fry him... this is AMERICA
Peeing on the dead, farm animal snuff videos, human fingers for trophies, and now video festivities with fascist flags- it just keeps piling on that the US is just playing games occupying parts of Afghanistan while building up huge bases near the Russian and Chinese borders.
...and their secretly working with aliens so everybody get out your tinfoil hats!
Glockhead and Sean, walk a mile, heck, a half mile in their shoes and then post your drivel. You ever been stretched to the snapping point from combat? What's been done is not right, but I hesitate to denigrate them as persons in any way. Try living their conditions, having your friends killed, and then post your opinions.
Leave the Marines and all our fighting people alone. Unless you walk in their shoes, all of you have nothing to say. War is ugly. ANYONE BUT obama IN 2012!
You get the award for dumbest comment of the day. We absolutley have the right to demand decorum from our armed forces. We are not the barbarian hordes. We ask them to do a very tough job, and we expect them to do it professionally. The United States Marine Corps is not a frat house.
He is against president Obama but supports Nazis. Un-American
You have no idea what they are facing and how ugly this war is. Leave them alone!!!
and bring them home!
If you would read the previous post a couple Marines up there stated what the flag represents... "Sniper Squadron".. this P.C. bullsh$% is getting out of hand. I see nothing wrong with the fact that these soldiers take pride in their squad.
John - You know that nazis were/are against socialism too, right? of course you don't or you wouldn't be surprised. SOCIALISM is un-American and your comments are un-informed.
Pjam09 What a stupid statement. Did you know that NAZI is the name of the National Socialists German Workers Party, ie, Nationsozialismus. Go get a GED.
I support our military, but this stuff has to stop, by posting this stuff on line, so terrorist's can use it as propaganda, is just plain stupid, and we expect more from our military personal. Don't aid the enemy!
Is Weinstein Jewish ? Was he " flooded" with calls from Jews ? Just wondering.
Fascism is a right wing ideology; and there are many conservatives who support Nazi ideals.
Justin Raimondo
http://www.fascismusa.com/
Actually John, pjam is right. The Nazis were oppressing socialists long before they did the Jews. Just because someone uses the term "socialist" in their name, it doesn't mean that is their goal. Ever heard of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? You want to guess what their views on democracy are?
its obvious by this and many similar actions taking place in this great nation, that there is a call to nationalism of some sort. we have become so separated because of our perceived differences, no thanks to the inundation of politically correct rhetoric, that many are just fed up with this united states taking second seat to other countries within our very own borders. it seems hanging, waving, and parading flags of other nations on american soil is encouraged and acceptable. doing so with our beloved star and stripes is maligned and considered offensive and insensitive to those same foreign flag wavers! what road are we going down on? ladies and gentlemen, read your history and learn from it. failure will most certainly bring about an inevitable repetition. let us all sail in the same direction and swear loyalty and allegiance to one and only flag...our stars and stripes.
So a band does it and it's cool. Our Marines do it and those who hate the military are shocked. Eff off.
Oh NO! Gene Simmons is a Nazi, LOL.
I'm sure Gene Simmons would be shocked to find out he was a Nazi, considering he was born in Haifa, Israel, to Jewish parents.
Kiss doesn't represent the United States of America.
Who cares! We used to fly the Rebel Flag over our outpost in Viet Nam!
Lost both wars!
Were there any blacks in your unit? I'm sure they really appreciated that.
The rebel flag is just a piece of cloth that means "rebel" not racist.
marlen - Nice of you to conclude that all blacks are the same and too unitelligent to understand what the rebel flag really means. I would hope plenty of blacks recognized that the situation they were in far outweighed any peice of cloth much as I'm sure whites ignored their Black Panther flags and logos because they all had a job to do.
Does making yourself feel special ever give way to rational thinking?
Actually Beenthere, the rebel flag is just a piece of cloth that means loser.
Bull@!$%#. The Rebel flag stands for both racism and ignorance. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Same with the Nazi bull@!$%# and anyone who thinks it's a cute tattoo or "interesting" for a picture.
Pissing on the enemy dead? F**king idiots. What if our enemies pissed on our dead and took pics?
Our forces should be held to a higher standard. Everyone at the top of the military chain of command agrees. To think or condone otherwise, puts you and your beliefs on the same level as our enemies.
pjam- To unintelligent? You are saying that? LOL I know what I think of when I see a rebel flag, people that can't let the civil war go. Who want to be proud, but never admit mistakes and mistreatment of a whole race of people! That everyone else isn't entitled to their feelings, when seeing a Rebel Flag! Grow-up get over it, you lost the civil war!
I think we can let the civil war go - it's been over 150 years! Move forward.
The rebel flag is a flag of treason.
@pjam, you know, personally, I hate the confederate flag and all that it stands for, but anyone who wants to can fly it. It's protected. I remember my son came home from school one day where they had been discussing that flag. He was quite upset, so this is what I said to him: "Did they make you salute it?" "Did they make you pledge allegiance to it?" He answered, no, to both questions. I said, "Well, when that happens, come and get your parents because then, we have a problem. Other than that, you should be happy that the people who fly it are identifying themselves."
Now, as far as the flag for the New Black Panthers, I've never seen that flag and didn't know they had one. Even so, if they do have one, they can fly theirs, too. Along with the Neo Nazis, the KKK, the American Nazi Party, the National Alliance, the Ron Paul Campaign ... oops, sorry, that slipped out, but if they have a flag, they can run it up anything they want, including a flag pole!
Kat that jab at Ron Paul, and there is no other way to take that given the company you lump him with, is as illthought out and unfortunate as that picture. I mean honestly, you may not like that man's policies but comparing him, through association of his campaign, with the KKK would be the equivalent of comparing Obama to Stalin. Poor taste and frankly it does not reflect well on you.
M.A.-I'm pretty sure we've had enemies that have done far worse than pissing on our dead. Have you ever served in a war zone? Have you ever personally seen the dead bodies of American soldiers dismembered and desecrated by our enemies? I would doubt that when in a war zone troops on either side of the conflict are taking the time to worry about what the people safe in their homes believe is the PC way for troops to act. I would beleive if your fighting for your life you'll do it by whatever means necessary in a war zone or even some very rough streets right here in the US. Do you ever consider the fact that were fighting a people that beleive that if a female is raped its she who has dishonored herself and her family? If she bears female children when the man wants males its thought perfectly ok to strangle that woman to death. There are many examples of the inhumaity of the people we've been fighting. Do you think they give one seconds thought about what anybody outside their faith thinks about anything?? These are people that believe we are the infidel and deserve to die. Do you remember how they carried out that idea on 9/11??? Why do you even give a crap if people like that are pissed on???????
Well, k200, I used to live in Texas. My husband was stationed there in the early 1980s, so I'm quite familiar with Ron Paul and what he used to put out there (he denies it now). But, you're right, I should not incude his entire campaign -- just the man himself. But, I can tell you that if he stands for what he claims to stand for, I'm sure the man himself would respect my right to take jabs at him any time I want.
So, I actually apologize to some of the good, well-intended folks who work for his campaign --- but to Mr. Paul himself, naw.
Skrew,
Never been in combat, but I do know that we imprisoned or executed Germans and Japanese who desecrated our soldiers, tortured them, etc and we condemned their symbols like the SS runes which represent that kind of behavior. How can you possibly say that due to the stesses of combat it is OK to do what the bad guys do? I get it that people do stuff in combat that we don't really want to know about; but having a flag made up that glorifies or demonstrates an affinity with the SS is a considered action taken outside of combat. We don't accept it when our enemies act badly; we can't accept it from our own soldiers.
I know you will think me naive, but I always thought we Americans were better than that. To take a Nazi symbol and fly it beside an American flag as if we admire it is just outrageous. To defend the kind of behavior by our militiary that we executed or imprisoned others for is simply wrong. And these guys are serving on active duty. They represent the United States. What they do on their own time is a different matter. In this case, they are not on their own time.
Well, skew, I totally get your frustration. But, I didn't want my sons to behave like the enemy, because here in the US, we place a high value on human life (most of us do, anyway) and we taught them better. So I told both of them, "No matter what happens, and no matter what you're told to do, do nothing that will bring shame upon yourself, your family, or that uniform."
We are all human beings, but our culture teaches us to place a high value on human life. We also teach respect for the dead --- not to mention the Geneva Convention. We're not perfect, but we're better than that.
Man the sniper community has been doing this for decades and now somebody somewhere got upset because they have no idea what it means only that the "SS" is seen as racist. I have an idea....how about whoever saw this can go @!$%# themselves. I'm tired of politically correct and and super sensitive people who get upset whenever somebody farts in the wind. Now the top brass is going to lecture us on being PR and I bet nobody from up top protects these guys. They are only worried about themselves and looking good for promotion. I'm sick and tired of liberals who don't understand our way of life. Stick to your leaf eatin, save the whales, yoga stretchin,latte drinkin ways.
Thanks to many who have posted for the amazing laughs. I always get a kick out of reading posts from rednecks. Now go on boys and close your moths, you're stupid is showing..
Redman - How do you close a moth?
P.S.
Learn the difference between "your" and "you're".
Talk about stupid.
Priceless
pjam09 - Redman DID use the correct form of your. Oops, just saw the second use of it, you ARE correct. Peace. :)
marlen101917....nope! I think they were cooking and scrubbing for the Brass in DaNang
fruity tootie - Welcome Home and Thank You for Your Service. Please read www.riflewarrior.com/vietnam.html Peace.
I'd rather be photographed with the SS symbol than with obama. And I'm Jewish.
Sounds about right. I bet you would.
Then you're either just claiming to be Jewish and trolling, or you're a complete moron. Go visit Germany and see one of the concentration camps. Never forget!
Like me now
SHAME ON YOU!
@theoneandonly; I was stationed there just over three years and loved the country. History is just that. History. I do not hold a grudge towards anyone currently, but I will never forget the past. I don't troll and am hardly a moron just because I hate the obama-world.
@Brooke, yes shame on me but only due to the embarrassment of obama and that which he's caused for the entire United States of America.
The military is the last chance for some people, not always the "pick of the litter" but they are still out there doing the job none of us are out there doing. Get off their a**es, no one is perfect, just everything is on video or a camera phone and captured these days. Nothing has changed. I hate to see what soldiers from other eras did especially from other countries.
You have no idea what you talking about.
What is this lately about picking on the Marines? Leave them alone to do their jobs. So what if they pose by an SS symbol; I have an SS Chevelle- does that mean it was made by Nazi's? Of course there is always a line to draw but I have yet to see how our service people have committed any atrocity by hamming it up in front of a camera- give them a break and let it go
withoutadoubt- The symbols look nothing a like and you know it, super sport, scout sniper, it is the logo they chose. It is the same as the Nazi's SS. Our own soldiers fought and died, fighting the Nazi's who killed millions of people! They just thought it was cool, and what it is, is STUPID!
I read through most of the comments above and this is the one that registered closest to my own opinion. Some people go through life looking for things to be offended by. Then everyone that feels the need to be politically correct jumps in and makes some innocent action become some reprehensible and shameful act. Has any Marine from this squad actually spoken about their intention? Did they intend the SS to honor the Nazis? Or was it a stylized SS to signify Sniper Squadron. Too many people today are looking for the worst in fellow Americans, but I would like to think the best of them, especially those in uniform. Until someone FROM THAT UNIT in the photo says that they intended to honor the Nazis with that symbol, I think the rest of you should get a grip and worry about something a little more constructive.
Very sensible comment kj.
LMAO, first intelligent thing, besides my own of course, I've read here, withoutadoubt!!!!!!!!!
Marine Scout Snipers have been using that particular twin lightning bolt design to identify them as scout snipers (SS) for at least 30 years. And this is just now news?
MSLSD just wants everyone to think Marines are skinheads. whatever, and all you bleeding heart liberals just suck it up.
Well they do wear them short hair cuts... just saying...lol
Not True. The emblem for US Marines Scout Sniper has been and is a skull on crossed rifles. The Nazi ( Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei, to correct an earlier poster) Waffen-SchutzStaffel (SS) was the police and military force of the Nazi Party; the double lightening bolt SS was their emblem.
Also, if you read the article update, the scout snipers have been specifically forbidden by the brass from continued use of that symbol. It is an utterly unacceptable affilitaion for American troops. period.
So are you saying Gene Simmons is a nazi sympathizer just because he chose the same font for KISS? His mother survived a concentration camp and he is an outspoken supporter of the U.S. Military.
.....yawn.......another phony controversy from the hysterical left......
"The Military Religious Freedom Foundation in Washington says it is outraged by the photograph and wants a full investigation".
What happened to Freedom of Expression, we are loosing day by day.
For those of you ranting and raving they are non-americans, maybe you should read the post from the couple of marines who stated the symbol is a symbol of their squad "Scout Sniper" hence the SS. Political Correctness is out of hand, no matter what one does or says it is going to offend someone and I for one am about to the point I don't care anymore.
These kind of photos need not be taken and circulated around the planet. These soldiers are in harms way but we can't get stupid because you could wind up behind bars. The days of getting away with this stuff are over and we don't lower our standards of conduct just because you serve in the military. Anyone who thinks these guys need a break better look around at all the hero's who are sleeping on the street and suffering from wars. A Nazi flag is a bunch of crap !
David and all who don't know crap: In no way, shape, or form are these Marines suggesting any affiliation with Nazis. I was also a Marine Scout/Sniper and that is what the SS symbolizes "Scout Sniper", nothing more and nothing less. I would also suspect that you idiots take offense to the MArine Corps using "Devil Dog" and some sort of satanic worship. People get a clue! SERIOUSLY!!!!!
Bad -- if it bothers people and has a historically bad connotation, why do you defend it? Is it the only possible symbol available? Or are you saying that these guys can just do what they damn well please and nobody has the right to say boo? Because our military represents us, you know.
Hey, badram, I went to sniper school, too, and I often saw the 'SS', but never like this. These guys aren't stupid, they know exactly what they were doing; trying to be provocative.
Solution? The brass should make them get another flag adorned with an acceptable 'SS', warn them against any more symbolism resembling Nazi crap, and stop soiling my Corps! Done deal, and it's over.
Badram, you should know that we don't overlook everything marines do simply because they are in harms way. That's bass ackward, and you know it Semper Fi.
Hey Devil Dogs, stick with your Eagle Globe and Anchor, unit colors. Marines don't patch "special" anything, your are all Marines.
It's A "SS" for SCOUT SNIPER! you ass hats!
Then CHOOSE a different FONT!!!
SS is scout sniper. The Germans were pioneers in modern military sniping, so the use of German SS is fairly logical.
Who the hell cares, we have bad guys to kill.
yes you are right FactOfthe Matter . if they want there freedoms let them go out and fight for them selfs and see how long they stay free.....
Well, FactOfTheMatter, I guess the reason my Dad didn't talk too much about his WWII experiences is because he'd seen enough killing for one lifetime.
Then there was my Mom--a war bride--who'd lived under Nazi occupation and became a proud US citizen. Her uncle worked for the Resistance, was caught, and died in a concentration camp.
I'm sure that their ashes are spinning tornadically in a columbarium niche at Arlington National Cemetery.
@bud--Those of us who want "there" freedoms wonder why our troops are still in Afghanistan.
We sure do have some morons in the military!
hockeyref, thank god for those morons or a bunch of you would be talking Japanese or German right now and you sure as heck would not have the rights you have now. Bad choice possibly, it has been corrected so move on instead of attacking our Boys and Ladies in uniform like all of you liberal socialist do. Any thing to drag this country down and to stomp on it . If you are so appalled by this where was your outrage when our military people were butchered by the muslim radicals or blown up by their IED's. If you like the other countries so much that you will do anything to belittle our Military and country then move there. All of you who do anything to make our military look bad even something as petty as this disgrace this country and the people who protect it. How sick and how sad you petty little people.
Naw, Hunter, I think it is YOU who are little and petty. Like I said in my previous posts, both of my military sons are Liberal (and their Liberal military father, and their Liberal military grandfather who fought against that symbol), and one of my sons has spent the last 5 years in wheelchair. So when you want to classify Liberals as anti-American, look in the mirror -- because it is folks like you who stomp on the Constitution. It is folk like you who lump everyone who disagrees with you into one big pile of sh!t. It is folk like you who would feel more comfortable in a country where only your point of view is respected and must be obeyed. Tell me, who died and made you the King of Patriotic America?
If you can't tolerate people with different opinions, maybe it is YOU who should pack your bags and leave --- 'cause we Liberals fight for this country, pay our taxes and we ain't going anywhere. I admit some of these posts are ridiculous, but then again, this is America where everyone has a right to express his opinion --- no matter how stupid it is.