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Police respond to a hostage incident at the Highland Woods trailer park in Deerfield Beach, Fla.
A gunman and two other people died during a hostage standoff in Deerfield Beach, Fla., NBC Miami reported early Friday.
The Broward Sheriff’s Office said the shooter and a male child were found dead after a SWAT team "made entry" into a recreational vehicle in Deerfield Beach, which is north of Miami.
Click for more details from NBC Miami
A woman and another boy were both taken to hospitals and were listed as being in critical condition, police said.
The incident began at about 6:30 p.m. ET when the suspect shot a man outside a RV at the Highland Woods trailer park.
The suspect was at one point holed up in a RV with as many as five other people, and later two, as he held a gun to a woman’s head, police said.
However, that hostage was later released, her daughter told NBC Miami.
Just before 8:30 p.m., Broward Sheriff's Office vehicles moved in to try to remove an injured person laying motionless on the ground. The man appeared to be the victim who was shot earlier.
However, police could not retrieve him because of the gunman said he would shoot if they came too close, according to Dani Moschella of the Broward Sheriff's Office.
That person was later declared dead, authorities said.
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NBC Miami and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
More guns, less crime!
That's the title of the book, anyway... I found it in the fiction section at the library.
Exactly. Everyone knows guns don't kill. Don't be silly.
Optimist - I always say the same thing. We have the most guns in the most hands and lo and behold! we have the most gun crimes and deaths. It isn't hard to equate the two.
No guns is a perfectly logical solution to the gun-crime problem. The illogical part is thinking that you can get rid of every gun. Not sure why anti-gun people can't grasp that concept.
Sometimes I think we should plow over much of Florida and start again (I live here btw).
You always say the same thing....We have the most cars in the most hands and lo and behold! We have the most people dying every year on our roads.......It isn't hard to equate the two......You are a genius...Guns don't kill people.....Bullets do. What about knives? Many millions have been killed by a knife....You surely would remove them from our irresponsible little hands.....And lets not forget scissors, you know how many kids run around with them and get wounded.......We have to get rid of those dastardly scissors.... And know something close to my heart.....Camera flash!!!! I have been temporally blinded by these cameras for decades... We really, really need to stop the camera flash madness..... If you want a gun free society, go to Britain with all those mindless twits...They let the Government decide they were not to have them.....
Arguments such as yours are not uncommon. Cars, scissors, cameras, these are tools that are made for a much more beneign purpose. You're posing a straw man's argument. A man walking into a crowed restaurant with a knife as opposed to a gun is not going to kill nearly as many people. Your argument that "guns don't kill people, people do" is misguided. No one has been shot without a gun being present. Further, just about every gun in circulation today was bought legally to actually get into circulation.
I agree. I was born & raised there and moved to TN 42 yrs. later. I've been here 16 1/2 yrs. You couldn't pay me to move back there. At least let me get my son & other relatives outta there before we plow it under!
Guns don't kill people, people kill people and they will do it with anything they can get their hands on. Trying to regulate guns is merely the kneejerk reaction of 'scared' people and guns are the easiest target for them. Forcibly disarming law abiding people will not solve the problem of violence or killing by people by gun (yes the criminals will still have guns, they don't follow the law, remember?) or any other means at their disposal. Disarmament would turn the law abiding into 'sheep' or 'sheeple' easily controlled by the government tyrants, or, easy pickings for any criminal. The Australian and British disarmament isn't going so well, look it up. They also give the criminals more rights than their victims.
Hey Scott-Where are all of you gun enthusiasts when one of these nut cakes starts cutting loose with their guns? Probably hiding under a security blanket sucking your thumbs. Not once, during any one of these events have I ever heard of an armed citizen stopping one of these gun crimes with their own handgun. If we can't depend upon an armed citizenry to protect us; then I guess they don't need all those guns to begin with.
Scott
your right on track, when will these silly rabbits finally realize that criminals can get guns when they want,if they look at the dope situation they'd see that making it ilegall does not get rid of the problem....
we need guns to rtect ourselves from these criminals, why do you thing theres never been an invasion
of the united states,cause the general population has more guns then most third world armies....
besides good americans having guns keeps those lobbists and activists employed....lol
Rob, no gun has ever walked up to someone and spontaneously pulled its own trigger, a PERSON has to do that. Saying its a straw mans argument isn't correct, sorry! The intent to kill is not the will of a firearm or any other implement to be used by the PERSON who desires to kill. Despite the fact that firearms are specifically made to destroy, it still doesn't make them self animate. A person has to pull the trigger, it is the PERSON who is the killer, not the implement!
Compare crimes rates in states or counrtries with more restrictive gun policies and the facts show that crime is almost always lower in those areas with more gun rights. These are facts, not someone spouting off based on their own ideas or repeating myths that they read by someone else lying.
Herbert - That's because these people probably didn't have their own guns! In some areas, it is still difficult to get a personal firearm. Had everyone in there been protected with a weapon (like they are in Switzerland and have some of the lowest violent crime in the world), the guy would have been dead in seconds. It is much easier to go after people who are not armed than those who are. Also, considering how crazy this guy was in the first place, do you really think he would disarm because the government told him to?
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
My firearms have never got up and walked to the mall or post office to do a mass killing, ha. They sit right where I put them.
Herbert, firearms are for your OWN personal defense in the last ditch event that you are cornered and have to use them. Avoidance is the highest priority for both armed and unarmed citizens. That is why noone steps foward with their guns to fight off these other people who become criminals using their firearms in that manner. The lawyers have made it almost a guarantee that anyone who uses their firearm outside an immediate life threatening situation will be prosecuted in a criminal fashion themselves. This is also why armed citizens don't step forward to 'protect other people'.
We broke from England with the help from weapons such as guns cannons etc.. We are a free society because of are ability to arm ourselves. We the gun owning patriots of this country are what stops our and other Governments from taking our land and liberties away.....They will..Slowly, by indoctrinating our children and weak minded people that are easy to corral like sheep.....It's in a politicians blood...They continually want more power...It is not a straw mans argument....That person that comes into the crowded restaurant with a knife or gun will be unhappy and dead if a citizen like myself shoots that moron DRT...dead right there....Were not the type to hide under the table like yourself.....The people in the restaurant will be happy that someone had their concealed permit and took a legal stand....So your argument is: If only a two people die in the knife attack..that's ok.. If four get killed in the gun attack, Well that's unacceptable....It's how many people can someone kill before they get tired of stabbing someone.....as opposed to how many times can someone reload and shoot....in your ideology...
"Sometimes I think we should plow over much of Florida and start again"
Yeah, cause this sort of thing NEVER happens on other states, right...(can we say Susan Powell?)
I'm from Florida, and while I have to agree with Kat, I wouldn't move back. But, my reasons are more economical rather than anything else.
Scott - you don't have to be a genius to figure this out - that's the point. And yet there are still people like you deflecting away from the obvious conclusion as to why our country has the most gun deaths.
Not going anywhere. Staying right here so I can hold up your false ideals to your face.
@rob I disagree, look at Chicago. They had a gun ban for a while and tell me how many gun related crimes that stopped. And you say that if there were no guns the knife related crimes would not be as bad. Look at China where they have a very strict gun ban. The knife related crimes are very high. There are many instances of unstable people with knives going into day cares and killing 5-10 before police can stop them or they take their own life.
euterpe-1641499,
Your stats are wrong. Even Michael Moore, in his movie "Bowling for Columbine" admits that Canada has as many guns per capita as the US, but their gun crime is only a fraction of the US. Finland, Israel, and Switzerland all have very few restrictions on gun ownership, and much lower murder rates. Mexico, Russia, Brazil, and many other countries, have significant restrictions on gun ownership yet their murder rates are higher than the murder rate in the US.
Herbert, Herbert Herbert, I think you need to become educated on a topic before you post. If you take the time to research you will find a thousands of articles showing your theory is wrong. Try the armed citizen....You will see that many gun owners have saved their own as well as other peoples lives..It happened here not long ago. A guy is robbing a store...he has a gun pointed at the cashiers head...A guy in line with a CC permit, pulled his weapon and shot the guy DRT....I myself, slept great that night knowing another POS went down....
You're right about the gun stat, Matthew. I meant handguns, but didn't make that distinction in my post. Thank you.
I have no problem with hunting - actually enjoy it!
euterpe... I hunt with a handgun.
Thought you might like this chart, Matthew. You'd be surprised who we are higher than in the murder by firearms category.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Then you're not looking to eat what you hunt.
Matthew, Your giving facts to people that block facts out of their argument. They are the same people that would be herded into train cars if told to do so....Also look at crime in DC with the hand gun ban in place....Murder and violent crime against citizens is up....
Euterpe,
In Scotland you can get stabbed with a knife in the broad daylight while on a bus. Nobody will even try to help you.
Any deadly weapn is extremly deadly if there is nobody to oppose you with equal or better deadly force.
Additionally knifes and swords are far more deadly in the hands of a skilled fighters, meaning the public is far more defenceless if a guy walks into a bus with a gladius and decides to kill everybody inside and the only thing you have to defend yourself is a bat or a stick, or even a knife.
That is why a middle ages knight could plow through a hundred people worth of basic infantry before the ascent of the longbow or better yet crossbow (ranged weapons are great equalizers).
The Norway killing spree showed that in a country with no weapons one person with a basic firearm can continue to kill people until he literally runs out of bullets. Even cops could not stop him until SWAT showed up - hours later.
There is plenty of crime in Europe, guns included (organized crime has no problem obtaining assault weapons form Russia). yes, you are morle likely to get stabbed than shot, but I assure you, dead is dead.
euterpe, here is a little light reading from an independent source. What you think you know is incorrect.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Banning guns would work as well as banning drugs.
Rob,
I know someone that was shot without a gun being present. He was reloading cartridges and through some sort of freak accident (I won't even try to figure it out) ended up with a bullet in the chest, there wasn't even a gun in the room. I also know a guy that was mowing the lawn and shot his wife with an old rusty nail coming from his lawn mower. Point is freaky things happen.
I agree that if there were no guns there would be no gun violence, but the fact is guns have been invented and I sure as hell will not give mine up now. Fact is criminals will not turn in their guns because the government says so; crack is illegal but that doesn't stop crackheads. I'd rather have a gun in my home (there are no children in my home, ever) if someone with a gun breaks in than try to fight them off with a knife or wait the 45 minutes it would take for a police response. I am not knocking the police; I live in a very rural area and unless an officer just happens to be right down the road the nearest police station is at least 45 minutes away.
Honestly, I wouldn't have a mother-in-law today if not for her having a gun in the early 80's when a guy broke into her apartment at night while her husband was at work. She was home alone with a 5 year old and a 3 year old when she heard a noise, she called out asking if her husband was home and got no answer so she grabbed his gun and crept down the hallway running into an intruder with a knife. He told her he was there to "have a little fun" and that is she cooperated he wouldn't hurt her; she pointed a 9mil at him and said he should be more worried about her hurting him. He dropped the knife and ran. That was very smart on his part because Mom is a good shot and she's ruthless when it comes to protecting her family. When asked why she didn't shoot him she said only cowards shoot someone in the back.
The point is I am very saddened to hear that people lost their lives yet again to gun violence, however of all the people that have guns in this country only a very small percentage use them to inflict intentional harm against other people; the media just does not report on the people that have owned a gun for 20 years and only ever fired it at the shooting range (because that would be a boring story).
In the lawyers eyes, the only acceptable use of a firearm in a civil situation is where the victim is in an immediate and inescapable life threatening situation. Avoidance of areas and situations that could see this situation unfold is paramount, ESPECIALLY if you are armed! Avoidance is also the number one priority for unarmed people. The lawyers have made it such that if you use a firearm outside that sole situation of inescapability, they will prosecute you as a criminal, don't try to be a hero....if you try and 'protect other people from a criminal' you will be prosecuted side by side with the criminal! For this reason, most who carry firearms are pretty close to being pacifist in nature, but don't threaten their own lives because then they WILL have the right to use their deadly force.
Scissors etc. were not designed as a murder weapon. They can come in handy as a secondary use.
But guns are meant for the kill. Maybe I missed something, you can name any useful implementation of the contraptions beside? (in reply to scott-2329078 )
"Then you're not looking to eat what you hunt."
There's a whole class of hunters who can competently use a .35 Rem in a Contender. You keep correcting your generalizations.
euterpe
Excuse me??? I most certainly do enjoy the venison. Where did you postulate YOUR concept?
Upon stopping at an intersection, a motorist noticed a man approaching. Before he could react, the man reached through the window and punched him several times. Stunned by the blows, the motorist reached for his handgun, for which he has a permit to carry. As his attacker reached behind his back, as if for a weapon, the motorist drew his gun and fired a shot, striking the assailant in the upper torso. The suspect will be charged following his release from the hospital From: Jacksonville Fl....Thousands of examples like this are out there....The liberal media generally just shows only the side they want to portray...They are part of the gun control ideology that is ingrained in liberals minds...They don't want to constantly show all the people saving their own lives and others, not to mention their property with a firearm...
The anti gun folks love spouting their fallacious statistics whenever a story like this pops up.
Coincidentally, serial liar Eric Holder is now being investigated for Fast and Furious... a blatant liberal scam to attack the 2nd amendment. I wonder how many of those guns killed innocent Americans? We know of at least one - a member of our border patrol!
Rather than take our guns away, we should put Holder and his boss in jail! That would make Americans safer!
Lee-479062
Just facts is a conservative website. Saying you're independent doesn't make it so. James Agresti is a born-again Christian and a conservative.
In Minnesota. Rifles offer more flexibility and better accuracy.
euterpe is a great example of liberal 'misdirection' in the handgun issue. Hopefully that group will always be in the minority. 'euterpe' indeed even the name is a contradiction!
euterpe, perhaps you would like to refute the data? The source is independent as you would see by actually reading what is there.
Lot's of negative comments on Florida....is it really that @!$%#ty there? I remember going to Treasure Island and Tampa as a kid I thought it was beautiful.....What happened???
I guess cops shouldn't have guns either.
Tell me, Rub of the Green - how does the Greek muse of lyric poetry translate to being pro handgun? Just curious.
And btw - I have provided proof of my assertions. Can we all follow the COH and not make it personal? How long have you been posting here anyway?
I did read the source, Lee; and then did additional research. That's how I came to discover the truth about the site. The only thing independent about it is the use of the word in their header.
Like a lot of other people, I don't understand how some people seem to think that guns are the root of all evil! How do people think that we can just get rid of guns and we will all be safe in America. Obviously, bad people have a tendacy to get what ever they need whenver they need it. Good Lord people, correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that we have a Huge drug problems in America and most have never been legal to possess, grow, etc.... And a big percentage of crimes are committed by people under the influence of some kind of substance, alcohol included! The bottom line is Stupid people do Stupid things!
euterpe, once again, do you wish to refute the data? It is extremely well sourced, relies only on demonstrably accurate data, thus it is independent.
Euterpe - I live in ND on the border and a lot of MN hunters use handguns.
As with religion and politics there is no way for either side to win an argument about handguns because people's minds are set before the debate. Yet we see the same old arguments every time a story like this is posted.
euterpe..
Minnesota... the land of 10,000 lakes.. actually haven't they decided it's more like 15,000? And they never finish by saying connected by one big swamp.
A rifle is fine if you're not able to get that close to your quarry. I find it more enjoyable to actually put a little more time, effort and skill into the hunt. I have to get at least as close as a bow hunter does, if not closer. It's easy to take a deer at 100 or 200 yards with a rifle. Hell at that distance, unless you're a seriously derelict hunter, or an extremely bad shot, you can't lose.
Try using a handgun and getting within 10 or 15 yards, even less. I'm NOT disparaging rifle hunters, but I like using more stealth skill than aiming skill.
Sorry, 2nd Amendment doesn't allow restrictions on any firearms. Just because there are some, doesn't mean they are legal, just means no one has spent the money to file against them to the Supreme Court.
Handguns are excellent self defense weapons as are shotguns. Handguns are also excellent for concealment reasons.
Just because we have the highest handgun rate deaths, doesn't mean regulating it more will reduce those statistics. It would take years to prove that.
I refuse to give up my freedoms and liberties just so you can have a "sense" of security. If you want that security, go buy a handgun, get a concealed license and get trained how to use it and when to use it.
When there is one bad apple, you don't damn the rest.
Herbert, real life is not like the movies. Criminals carry and discharge weapons with no regard for the law or anyone else. Lawful gun owners in many sataes are bound by strict protocol regarding use and even display of a gun. Having written that, let me give you an incident that happened recently in Philly. A young man found himself being assaulted and pistol whipped in the stairwell of the building where he lived. His mother upon hearing sounds that worried her, carried her legal weapon into the area and managed to shoot and kill her son's assailant. She saved her son's life and removed another piece of garbage from society.
Guns kill people like spoons make people fat. I dont know the whole story but I could almost bet drugs or alcohol was involved....go figure. Its the person who pulls the trigger, not the gun. This country was founded on the fact that we have the right to defend ourselves, aka bear arms. Let me tell you that if anyone wants to do harm to anybody or themselves, they will find a way period point blank. If guns were outlawed only the outlaws would have them and that would work good!! Lets just take a history lesson, Hitler banned guns, wow that worked out
Let's examine...
The killer was able to stop law enforcement from coming closer with the threat of firing off a quick couple of rounds and eliminating the hostages...
What would happen if he only had a knife?
Would the hostages been able to fight back to some degree? Yes.
Would the killer have been able to stop law enforcement in their tracks with just a knife? NO.
Did the ease of using the firearm make the killer's decision to kill easier? Probably.
Did the killer know that he could easily take his own life with a gun and was that knowledge the catalyst for his decision to commit murder -in other words, the thought of taking out a few people and then putting a bullet in your head is more do-able; stabbing multiple people, holding the police force at bay and then succesfully killing yourself with a knife? NOT so do -able.
Guns are on the street because of lax gun laws.
End the madness. Take back the world from troglodites.
Have a nice day.
If guns don't kill people, how are criminals with guns a threat to you?
Have a nice day :)
Anyone who believes that the accesibility of firearms causes crime should be in favor of confiscating Rosie O'Donnell's silverware.
@ shut yer yap: Hmmm, I've heard of a number of hostage scenarios where the bad guy had a knife, so yes law enforcement will not approach someone with a knife in their hands that is at the hostage's neck.
Hmmmm a kid fight with a bad guy who has a knife. Scratch that.
Anyone who is taking hostages for NO REASON (as in this case) is more than likely very mentally ill. No telling at that point how far they go. The Japanese aren't mental, but yet they committed suicide often.
Guns WILL ALWAYS be on the street regardless of how many laws you past, which in fact is against the 2nd Amendment to have ANY laws against firearms.
where do criminals get these darn things??? are they robbing people that have guns? maybe if your gun is stolen and used to harm ,you should be partially liable. Mayor of madeira beach got his FIVE guns stolen out of his CAR overnight a few months back. ..who keeps guns in their car! maybe this was his stolen gun. I wonder if he would get charged with aiding and abetting? he should if it were his gun...pitbulls kill also, but any loser can get one. sad world.
I, too, am a gun hater. I hate those guns that force themselves into peoples hands and force the holder of the gun to put bullets into the forceful gun. I also hate how the guns then force the holder to pull the trigger and starting discharging those forcibly introduced projectiles.
There have been numerous bills introduced in congress to mandate "smart" guns. I think congress is taking the wrong approach. Guns, as a collection of metallic and plastic parts are already smart enough to outwit the users and force them to do things the user wouldn't otherwise do. How about congress mandate a "dumb" gun bill removing all intellect from those assemblies used to send projectiles. I highly suggest that congress mandate a "smart" person bill whereby the user needs to have more intelligence than the gun that forced itself into their hands. But most of us realize congress will never introduce such a bill. To do so, and have it be effective, there would be far too many people with a greater intelligence than the legislative body - one individual would have a greater capacity than the collective body.
that's it we need smart guns! because people are too dumb in general to have them. They are so dumb they think their gun cabinet , closet or car won't get robbed by a criminal . that will use the gun to harm others.great idea thinker, you are such a thinker!
@ 1surrviivor: So if your car was stolen and used to kill someone. Are you liable? If your kid kills someone, are you liable? If your boat, kitchen knife, chainsaw, etc.............you get the point.
Shut your yap, follow your own advice ! I'm assuming that you don't have a T.V. because you Inbred Mountain Folk Don't have any eeeelecticity ! That's why you can't and won't sit any of the Murderers down on the ELECTRIC CHAIR ! It ain't hooked up to nuthin'. People intent on killing someone don't need a firearm, you dummy ! If you would have had a T.V. you would have known that. Tthat nut who blew himself up and cut up his kids didn't use a gun! So according to your Brilliant Mind, we need to Ban ; Guns, Kinives, baseball bats, Golf Clubs, Rope, gasoline, Bottles, Screw Drivers , Chain saws, Crow Bars, 2 x 4 "s Rocks, Nails, Poison, Did I leave anything out? Oh yes, Broom Handles, That was the method they used to kill the Boston Strangler while he was in Prison ! If the populace in Syria was properly Armed , That Mental retard Assad, who is in power would be dead by now and thousands of lives would have been saved! Get a life and read a book !
I hate to spoil the party, but a few years ago while visiting a gun range, I saw a handgun actually get up all by itself and it started hopping around really crazy too! What really scared me was when it grabbed a magazine full of bullets and inserted itself into the gun and started shooting all over the place! Luckily no one was hurt or killed! I cringed so hard while that was happening, I had to visit a chiropractor the next day to get uncringed!
If you are a thug,a useless P.O.S, commiting a crime that endangers others you have no right to live. Botom line is guns keep everyone safer. I never shot anyone that didnt need it,otherwise i would not be here to type this. you can make all the arguments you want, but without the american citizens being armed do you actualy think you would be free to have your oppinions?
The real question is not HOW an individual is killed but WHY? That is one question that never seems to arise or garner any credibility. As history tells us, the Chinese invented an explosive powder in the 12th century to scare away evil spirits. It was just a matter of time before people realized that evil spirits exist in people and that the explosive powder could be contained and directed at those evil spirits. So, people decided to use their metalworking skills (I believe it is historically referred to as the Iron Age) to create something that could contain and direct the explosive powder, and they did so on behalf of their societal organizations. At that time, they had a name for it. It was called WAR! and is still so-named today. But, even many centuries before the Chinese invented that explosive powder, its existence and ramifications were recorded in the oldest documented historical book we have today, the Bible. You can read about it in Revelation, Chapter 9, if you are so inclined. John had no idea what he was witnessing or describing, but he did the best he could with the knowledge he possessed and recorded it for all men to read and learn. He was very frightened by what he saw then, and we should all be even more frightened by what we are seeing in the world today.
The real question is not HOW an individual is killed but WHY? That is one question that never seems to arise or garner any credibility. As history tells us, the Chinese invented an explosive powder in the 12th century to scare away evil spirits. It was just a matter of time before people realized that evil spirits exist in people and that the explosive powder could be contained and directed at those evil spirits. So, people decided to use their metalworking skills (I believe it is historically referred to as the Iron Age) to create something that could contain and direct the explosive powder, and they did so on behalf of their societal organizations. At that time, they had a name for it. It was called WAR! and is still so-named today. But, even many centuries before the Chinese invented that explosive powder, its existence and ramifications were recorded in the oldest documented historical book we have today, the Bible. You can read about it in Revelation, Chapter 9, if you are so inclined. John had no idea what he was witnessing or describing, but he did the best he could with the knowledge he possessed and recorded it for all men to read and learn. He was very frightened by what he saw then, and we should all be even more frightened by what we are seeing in the world today.
Good point capncaveman. Also, because our Government has allowed our sweet corporate world to suck up Chinese labor in China like some sex starved nympho, and build up their Communistic regime, American citizens may some day need our firearms to fight them on our soil, if they decide to invade our country one day.
Desert-fox-721
Your very first post - and it's been reported.
Marcel-2112373
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation? Let me know when you can start one without being abusive and maybe we can get somewhere.
That hasn't stopped the DEA from pretending they can rid America of drugs, which are FAR more easily made and distributed, though not nearly as deadly.
ALL illicit drugs combined kill ~17,000 Americans/year
Guns kill ~31,000 Americans per year
Turns out guns are twice as deadly as illegal drugs, huh?
Ans astonishingly, another conservative collapsing of a pertinent, relevant, and inoffensive post. You cons sure are tolerant of different opinions, huh?
Lee - If there was stricter gun laws, criminals wouldn't have the access to guns that they do today.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
xdm9mm - you and I appreciate different types of hunting.
Sorry Rob, the only difference between a gun and a knife is a knife is quieter. I could kill as many people with a knife as I could with a 9mm. It would only take a few seconds longer and closer contact. Actually could probably kill more faster as I wouldn't have to stop and reload.
There may not have been an armed citizen in the area, so that makes that comment irrelevant. It's not like we go out and patrol looking for trouble. That's what we pay law enforcement for.
Being an armed citizen is a deterrent that I personally hope I will never have to use.
Check out the NRA website or NRA Magazines Armed Citizens section. Lots of stories of armed citizens protecting others or their own lives.
Comment # 2 restored for clarity.
I've never understood why all the anti-gun people think that getting rid of all guns will be the answer to our problems. Who's to say that we'll be better at keeping guns out of our country than oh, let's say drugs. That stuff seems to flow pretty freely across our southern border, in case you haven't noticed. Making the law-abiding citizens give up their guns will ensure that only criminals have access to them.
euturpe, you are going to have to do better than that. You provide a source to a single ATF agent who cites unsubstantiated numbers from a report that may or may not exist. Show the report itself and then we can see what it says. His numbers do not make sense for national application considering he uses only guns seized by the ATF and ignores all other sources such as local and state law enforcement and the FBI.
From the ATF, the national average Time to Crime is nearly 11 years. Your report has it at under 2. Clearly false. You are going to have to do a much better research job than that.
By the way, when you want to refute data, try citing the data you wish to refute. Trying to throw crap at the wall to see what sticks is going to embarrass you.
From the ATF:
You should note the last two lines for convicted felons and prior arrests. Perhaps you could get them to tell you how much they would comply with stricter gun control laws.
One other thing, if you have to go back nearly twenty years to find an inaccurate report as your only defense for your position, it is time to take a closer look at your position.
Shut yer yap sounds like a typical mislead gun control person. Any object placed in the hands of a law abiding citizen will be used totally different than a criminal, whether the object is designed to be deadly or not. The criminal will find ways to use ANY object to commit his crimes. Since the control freaks cannot control people, and they cannot control every object ever made, they pick the easiest and most 'deadly' object they see. Did you know that Britain with its firearms ban had to go even further and control swords? Yes, its true! They now cannot even have swords! What is next? Ropes? A killer will use a rope to commit crime, kill people etc. The root of the problem is PEOPLE. The objects merely obey the will of the master, and the master is PEOPLE! There is no need for rediculous 'control' measures, people will commit crimes against each other even if there are only stones available to utilize!
For the gun control folks....
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id14.html
Before disarming the people.
Google - Gun Town USA...
Now after 30+years this town, which is part of metrapoltin Atlanta GA, has experenced few gun related deaths. And after the law was enacted their crime rates fell and have stayed well below the national averages...
Or maybe the crimminals are just smart enought to stay away from a town, where EVERY houshold is REQUIRED to have a gun...
When I go hunting I use an AR15 50.cal. It brings down 600lb wild boar pretty easily. I also use the same AR15 5.56 cal for deer or elk. I have never used a pistol for hunting but carry one. May try it.
Many people think that a knife won't kill as many people as a gun. Depends on the person holding the knife. My dad was in the Korean War and was told of a story while x-raying this army soldier that they were trying to take a hill in Korea when they were pinned down at the bottom by automatic gunfire. As they tried to make it up that hill they were being held at bay the North Koreans. On the other side of the hill a squad of Turkish fighters were making their way up the hill. The U.S. soldiers were pinned for several hours. Then there was no gunfire. They waited about 5 minutes to see what was happening. One of the scouts managed to reach the top and was surprised to find 15 dead North Koreans and one Turkish soldier. The Turkish soldier had been shot many times with bullet holes to show that he had been. The amazing thing was the Turk had only a knife and still killed 15 North Koreans. Depends on who is using that knife.
To all Liberals and anti-gunners that want to restrict gun rights. Talk to Ted Nugent!!!!! He'll tell you
KISS MY A$$
Nugent/Palin 2016
You know what annoys the heck out of me??? That people think all liberals are for gun control.... not true at all!
Nugent/Palin??? what a horrid idea! Neither of them is smart enough to find their way out of a paper bag, much less know the states or state capitals... Now that is one scary ticket!
Desert-fox-721 banned, only one comment and it's a personal attack.
Failed audition.
Thanks, Sally!
Sandan....Does it really matter so much to you who they are or where they are from? People are dead, and worse an innocent child and another critical...You have a nice day over there...feral...
Probably fire from the cops killed the kid.
I live in Boca Raton - probably 2 miles from there over the Broward County line. While there's zero excuse for what the guy was doing (hostages) 99 chances out of 100 the Broward Sheriff department overreacted and made a bad situation worse - they're a lot of really horrible cops in that department - a LOT of them. And I support 1st responders so that's not a prejudiced viewpoint.
I'm guessing bullets.
SWAT situations in general have become short on facts lately. The only constant any more is that the shooter was invariably "found dead" - code words for "killed by the SWAT team but spun so as to avoid lawsuits".
Only a fool would go to a gun fight with a knife! as long as criminals have guns, I will have a gun. some fool posted where are all the gun owners when the criminals show up and how come we are not helping to protect people well first off wheres your gun? 2nd when did that become my job, 3rd why put myself in danger or risk of going to jail, 4th it does happen on occasion but a thwarted crime isn't news worthy. I personally know of occasions where a crime has been stopped by a bystander with a gun, usually the perp runs away and nothing more is said. I have a ldea lets get the liberals to stop opening the gates and letting out all the freaks! that would be a start. or are they afraid they might wind up a candidate for the straight jacket. my condolences to the victims. every body regardless of gun owner or not should be required to get a gun permit that way we can look into there past and weed out the ones that should not own a gun in the first place. not that it would really change anything but you would have a back ground available. and if there is no permit selling that gun to someone would be a felony. Now about the kid that stabbed, beat, bludgeoned and shot his grandmother with a arrow. would banning guns stop that as well? then there is the guy in Washington that blue up his house with his sons in it, yep more gun control needed over that one shall I go on. its getting to the point that the alternative methods of killing are starting to out number the shootings. face it we are living in a sick society and its getting sicker, did you read the one in Missouri, where the little girl was stabbed and had her throat slit, a gun made her do it. yes you liberals have all the intelligent answers, if the rest of us could just get you to stop implementing them. you have taken our basic freedoms to the farthest limit and abused what we have, and now you want to apply controls and take away basic rights and turn the country into a asylum.
Angry, can you provide me a link to these swat situations that are short on facts? Seems this article was short on any facts. Also you say "found dead" means killed by the swat team. Are you implying police are murdering suspects, or, that suspects are getting shot due to armed confrontations with police?
If Florida would ban the sale of guns at the flea markets and made it harder to buy this might not have happened (I know how easy it is to buy there cause last year I bought a 38 special made in Miami at a flea market and just paid cash no info asked )
You bought your gun but now want others to not be able to? Well!
This is called a person to person transfer and legal as long as its just a few guns a year. The only time you need to do paper work is when you are buying or selling out of state or buying from a FFL gun dealer. It is also illegal to advertise as a business and sell firearms with out a FFL.
That makes you a hiprocite and part of the problem. What's your point?
People should undoubtedly be permitted to own guns though not to carry them in the streets, which is a recipe for disaster, human nature being what it is. As long as those who purchase guns pass a reasonable screening process and understand how to maintain them safely then there should be no issue with gun ownership
he is just saying to ban in flea markets dummies. It's reading comprehension . god I know it was a long sentence, but it was JUST a sentence. and you still couldn't follow. guntards,god!
WOW! They sell enough guns at Miami flea markets that someone has set up a factory?
Note to self - cancel Miami vacation plans.
"Hold on Mr. Mugger. You aren't supposed to be carrying that gun out here. Would you mind waiting a few minutes while I go home to get mine? I'll be back as soon as I can but we'll need to meet inside some building since it is illegal to be on the streets with our guns."
Well it is true that Florida gun laws are not well enforced. How many of us know someone that's not playing with a 'full deck' down here and they all have a gun either carried on their person illegally, or loaded and sitting at home that they bought at a yard sale. Why is it, that it seems that Florida has more stories about kids disappearing, kids mistreated, total nut jobs running around, that get into the news all the time? Why are we coming off as some State with a bunch of armed nut jobs?
Sassy, you are a certified moron. People that use guns like this don't pay attention to gun ban laws, it just keeps law abiding citizens from buying them to help defend myself in a crisis like this.
Why is it that some people can make personal attacks and get away with them, yet I called someone a bonehead and a broad moderator suspended me for one day? Ahhh, I guess this is a pick and choose who you want to punish, weird piece of sh it forum here.
The Thinker: On the other hand, imagine what would happen if someone inadvertently cut soemone off while driving and the driver who was cut off, prone to road rage, takes out his gun and shoots the other driver. Always pays to look at two ends of the coin.
@ObayTheLaw- You made the mistake when you referred to a liberal, everyone knows its conservatives that are boneheads lol. maybe your post did not have enough subject matter, to distinguish between the two, and it was just deemed prejudice. or slanderous, possibly it was misunderstood? what was the reason given? I doubt it was over the use of the term bonehead, unless you directed it directly at a individual! sometimes using a derogatory term to represent a group is more tolerated then when you use it against an individual. and it also might make a difference if you are joking or appear to be dead serious.
In that instance Basil, that person who can't control his temper and fires at someone in rage is now a criminal! Most people who have even the slightest sense of appropriate public behavior can understand that! It's kind of like using a nuke in a war, the consequences are so devastating you don't want to face them and check your rage at the door and move forward with a more or less silent protest.
You may have bought it in Miami but it was not made there
Why does all this happen in trailer parks? I mean - they are full of child molesterors, drug manufacturers, rapists and other psychotics. Let's just outlaw trailer parks.
Or you could move into one of the many nice parks, and OWN your home. In your house the BANK owns you.
Do not assume an RV park is a typical trailor park as some are pretty damn nice
Hey Airborn-those things that you describe happen EVERYWHERE. NOT JUST TRAILER PARKS!!! My boyfriend lives in a very descent one, yes, there is crime but in my area where there are REGULAR HOUSES, the crime is worse. In fact, a few months ago, we had someone killed in a drive-by. Those don't happen in a trailer park. Also, in the HOUSE next to me lived a child molesteror. So, you need to be careful when you open your mouth.
I think we need to ban RV's. They're the REAL issue. We had a shooting up here in PA last week, man barricaded himself in an RV and shot a woman.
it is a camp ground, not a trailer park
I grew up in a trailer park... guess who my neighbor was... a cop, so much for that theory!
Yes Deerfield Beach is north of Miami. About 40/45 miles north!!
Criminals demand more gun control.
If you choose to be a victim that is your right as an American. It is also my right to defend myself and my loved ones, do not try and make me a victim by default. Guns are here to stay. This is why the "right" laughs at liberals and those of us in the middle that have our eyes open and remember history don't buy into your fantasy world. Do you think Hitler and every other despot could have gotten away with what they did had their subjects been able to fight back? Please read about the Warsaw uprising, if you think it couldn't happen here, think again.
stonepipe...
Who are you responding to? Arizona, is a firearm ownership supporter.
I'll be a tad sarcastic here and ask if you had trouble understanding the first word of his post... CRIMINALS?
No xdm9mm I just jumped in because I liked his post. I'd be a tad sarcastic here and ask why you carry a 9mm.
Well xdm9mm, can't wait around, I'll give you a couple days to think about WHY liberals think gun owners are dumb.
stonepipe..
Actually, I don't need a couple of days. I've already responded to your previous question in 8.3 on page three.
We can play this back and forth game all day long. Maybe if you realized we're actually on the same side, it would cease.
When will all these killings stop?
When there are no Humans left
Precisely!
It will stop when Messiah returns...
Why not let the people decide if this country should be gun free, Being that this is the United States of America put it to a vote. By the way, we can also add Tobacco and Alcohol to the ballet.
He's trying to secure a second term. But how will his going back to Chicago change things?
Where there is man, there can be no peace.
I love the ballet! lol
People, it's all about the money. Guns are killing our citizens because the politicians refuse to stop it. That's because the very powerful NRA is the prostitue for the gun manufacturers. The political prostitues we elect to office are so well paid by it and therefore totally influenced by that organization that innocent people will continue to be summarily put to death by gun nuts who suddenly believe they are all-powerful simply because they have a gun in their hands when in all actuality, they are merely punks, cowards and deranged folks.
Not allowed to own one, eh?
Guns are not the problem, people are. It doesn't matter if a mentally unstable person has a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon, they will harm another because of there instability.
The police cannot prevent a crime that hasn't occured, they can only respond when the actual crime is in progress or after the fact. Only we can defend our selves from these criminal acts.
Look at the history of violent crime and look how many people have been killed or maimed by acts of crime who weren't able to defend them selves because of laws that leave us vulnerable. Compare that to those who had the means to defend them selves.
If you really want to point fingers at the cause of these acts of crime point the finger at Ronald Reagan, because he is the person most responsible for destroying the mental health community. A person who is willing to hurt others exhibits those intentions way before they act upon them, but unless they actually commit a crime nothing can be done to prevent them from reaching the point of harming others until it's to late.
As for criminals they don't abide by laws. so any gun law that passes will be useless because criminals will still possess guns. The only people who will suffer are those law abiding citizens who are denied the right to defend them selves.
Your comment on the NRA and gun control is not supported by facts, just emotions, so think about it, do you want to leave everyone defenseless.
Hmmm. I wonder if the "gun control" folks read the articles about dads chopping and burning thier little boys, grandsons stabbing thier grammy to death, or moms drowning or suffocating thier babies. If someone is going to kill, they will do it with or without a gun. More and more, it seems to be without. California and Illinois have extremely tight gun control laws, yet extremely high rates of crime involving guns. The guns are not the problem; people are.
I'm so tired of people blaming Guns as the reason for the carnage. A gun has no will of its own and will do whatever the user wants it to do, whether it be for evil or good. Have any of you anti gun morons ever noticed that the media is quick to put a story of a gun being used in murder, suicide, robbery and yet when it's done in self defense it rarely gets mentioned, unfortunately that's just not news worthy! America is not the only country full of guns, so is Canada! They have alot of hunters and people that love firearms except Canada is not known for it's gun violence....hmmmm it doesn't take a genious to know why they have as much guns as we do and yet their gun violence is so low!
I would rather be armed and ready to defend myself, my neighbor or anyone in need than rely on law enforcement to get there after the violence has already been committed. Guns are NOT the problem..PEOPLE are and as long as you have people not willing to live by the rules set forth by society, people who would rather take from you than earn it themselves, or people who are just plain wacko...well a gun is a nice thing to have!
Like i always tell people who are anti-gun... I don't have firearms to go look for trouble, i have firearms in case trouble finds me.
My name is Jessie, i live in KALIFORNIA and i carry a firearm, i am licensed to do so and am well trained in firearm defense. If you are an anti-gunner and are offended by anything i said then i'm sorry, but you need to open your mind and not be so closed minded afterall it's so easy to blame an inanimate object....and in case you're wondering the answer is YES. I would defend your life just as much as i would defend my own.
I'm always floored by the rantings of those left wing folks that want to take guns out of our free society and think it would remain a free society. We have a president that's attempting to strip of of all our rights as a free nation- once he gets guns taken away- freedoms gone. I've always marveled at the ranting of the late Sen. Edward Kennedy and his fight for gun control. All I can say is my handgun has killed less people than his automobile- Next you left iwngers will want to ban automobiles too.
You give politicians far too much credit. They are not as discreet as you give them credit. They are willing to whore themselves out to everybody. Wave a single "George" in their face and they will be your best friend and whisper sweet nothings in your ear. Wave a handful of "Bens" and they will stay in bed a little longer.
Hell, they even climb into bed without financial enticements - just ask the interns.
Easy there JPerusso. You are one of only a few that believes Uncle Teddy used a car to kill Mary Jo. We can't outlaw cars - we just paid hundreds of billions of dollars to keep the auto industry "alive" despite their repeated efforts to "kill" themselves. Politicians don't believe in euthanasia for people nor for autos. There are far more than believe that alcohol was the real killer. Oops, wait a minute. We've already tried the "outlaw booze" tactic. Aah. It was the water that killed her. She shouldn't have tried to act like a fish. She should have known that evolution removed gills from land mammals a few years back.
Jean, I hate to spoil the party, but a few years ago while visiting a gun range, I saw a handgun actually get up all by itself and it started hopping around really crazy too! What really scared me was when it grabbed a magazine full of bullets and inserted itself into the gun and started shooting all over the place! Luckily no one was hurt or killed! I cringed so hard while that was happening, I had to visit a chiropractor the next day to get uncringed!
Jean if you lost your gun rights its probably for the best, now where do I find the address for the NRA I need to send them some money! how much is that life membership now days.
To control guns is to control people. Its going on is Syria as we speak! the problem they have is not enough guns.
There is a reason they call a gun a peace maker. and they work quit well when used properly and responsibly bring gun safety and education back into the schools.
obey....That's pretty funny and a good way to put some humor into it! Ya, i see that happening all the time...only they kinda amble down the street...they even carry huge ammo boxes with them too! They even reload the magazines on their own!
Sandan, actually this trailer park is mostly full of Canadiens who come down for the winter. These are nice RV's. Not the srereotypical double wide meth labs!
Yes,,,outlaw guns,,then knives,,,then hatchets, on and on and on!
So true!! Anything can be used as a weapon.
I agree. When are they going to outlaw the greastest killer of all - stupidity.
m orning thunder2108346;
how about cold scrambled eggs and week coffee at Denney's? Ban them too.
The USA has the most liberal gun laws and the most gun fatalities per capita of any civilized nation on planet Earth. Great job: USA you are number 1!!!!
Of course as long as the vast majority of Americans believe that only criminals love stricter gun laws, more innocent people will get shot by 'law abiding' citizens.
Really.....coming from a German???? I can remember not too long ago, six million deaths that didn't happen with guns. You might want to watch some of the old war footage on the History Channel. Seems you "civilized" Germans didn't use guns. The Nazis gained control quickly because of gun control. That fact is well documented.
And while you are looking at statistics, how many people in Germany died when Hitler banned guns from private citizens? Just because you people screwed up and allowed your right to self defense to be stripped doesn't mean we are as dumb. Try searching for the number of self defense uses of guns in the US, the numbers might surprise you. Difference is they don't get the same media attention because they are not "sensational" enough and do not support the democrat controlled media that wants guns banned.
Germany is different now and, obviously, neither old deputy nor Ezerharden have been there since the war ended. After WWII people were raised to know better than to mindlessly follow orders. To assail a German for anti-gun views over 65 years after WWII ended does not make sense. Nor does it make sense to blame today's Germans for what the Nazis did. The Germany in which I grew up is pacifist and critical-thinking. And it has a lot less gun violence than the US. However, the US has a different history and mind-set. What is needed is gun education and more respect for life (after birth). Banning guns in the US at this point just wouldn't work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence
Your point Karl? You don't seem to be able to put things into context. For example 12 times as many people die from heart attacks in this country then they do from guns. More then half of gun deaths in the US are suicides. So does the US have one of the highest gun fatalities per capita yes but when you consider that at most it is 35,000, more than half of which are suicides, out of a nation of 300 million that really isn't as big as you are making it out to be. More people die from cars then they do from guns in this nation. To put it into further context slightly less than 3 people per 100k are killed by firearms in the US. Do you realize how small a number that is Karl.
Karl,
Educate yourself. From an independent source:
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
So take the guns away from the liberals - they've demonstrated their inability to cope.
"law abiding" and shooting others connotes self defense. Otherwise the explanation is that those 'law abiding' citizens got tired of wearing a white hat and decided a black hat and the moniker of criminal was more appealing.
I'm guessing that those six million people volunteered to be euthanized a few decades ago. Or was that just a cover-up because the germans didn't have enough bullets to humanely exterminate so many "criminals".
Take my pistol and I will use my rifles. Take my rifles and I will use my bow. Take my bow and I will build another. Take that one I will use my bat. Take my bat and I will use my body. Take my rights and I will still defend me and mine. Take my life if you can, but be prepared to offer up your own. We will find out what its like in the hereafter together. My point? An unarmed society is a slave to the goverment beyond our current extent. Even if you could get rid of the guns some dumb bastard will start using slingshots to kill again. I want even odds when in a bind.
Says the man from GERMANY. The country where genecide started.
Come on dude. the only difference is that in Germany people were killed in an organized methodical German way. Here they are dieing in a totally disorganized unpredictable manner (its just the way we Americans do things).
You actually think genocide started in Germany? BWAHAHAHAH
Deranged people will find a way to implement their need to kill. Blame the person-- not the gun.
For those of you who think gun control is easy .... you CAN buy a "Saturday night special" ANY
day of the week, real cheap, on the street. Criminals would just love to see guns taken away
from people, they could then inflict their terror on the average law abiding citizen.
Karl, 'law abiding' citizens aren't the ones killing innocent people. What is hard to understand about that?
Interesting that no one comments on the military swat teams. These folks are dressed like combat soldiers, have true automatic weapons (not semi) and did what? They "set up a perimeter" and waited till the suspect killed everyone including himself. They would not even bring their heavily armored vehicles up to get the person who was dying on the sidewalk.. he died anyway.
If you cops want to dress up like special forces, start acting like special forces.. when I was in Vietnam, and we needed to clear an obstruction we called for the special forces.. they ate better than everyone else, but they didn't set up a perimeter and wait out the NVA until ran out of food.. oh yeah, they got to wear a shoulder patch, but they earned it.
Because in these days, cops are sued for anything they do. If they take a shot too soon, they are put on leave and investigated.
Hahaha, up here in PA last week, they surrounded an RV in a parking lot because a man shot a woman, they had the perimeter up for 4 or 5 hours. Till they realized he was long gone. It's like Sheriff Early on Squidbillies up here in Pennsyltucky.
Shannon is right. Our laws are hosed up. They protect the criminals first and foremost, everyone else is secondary. What a shame.
Yeah, why would we want to investigate the shooting of an individual by an arm of the state? They're ALWAYS right.
Besides, I believe it's PAID leave.
Right Shannon. That's why there are laws specifically exempting them from prosecution in doing their jobs. However, they are prosecuted for criminal behaviour - such as shooting unarmed pedestrians on bridges.
Known as paid vacations.
America used guns to kill Indians back in the 1800's. America has its own genocide period, too. Guilty.
Well said and 100% true. Why did we kill the buffalo? To starve the Indians into submission who wouldn't turn over there lands. Why did we give them blankets from people with smallpox? To give them smallpox. We are not clean people and yes we commit war crimes.
Precisely GRJ, the Indians only had bow n arrows at first. Once they got on board with modern weaponry (guns) the Union faced a daunting task in the west, that's a big reason why we ended up creating so many treaties with the tribes. The Indians benefited from guns. You see the moral of the story is when people can't adequately defend themselves genocide soon follows, it's human nature.
USSR under Stalin= 30 Mil dead. He killed more of his own people than Hilter/WWII did.
China under Mao= 20 Mil dead
Sudan Janjaweed= 2+ Mil dead
Iraq under Saddam= Unknown but in the millions
Cambodia under Pol Pot= 2+ Mil dead
Rwandan Genocide= in the millions
The list goes on and on.
Good stats, except China under Mao was estimated over 60,000,000.
Oh well, one less legal gun owner........
And you know he was a "legal gun owner" how?
I must have missed that snippet in the article. Or are you clairvoyant?
Everyone is "legal" until proven to be a criminal, just as you are innocent until proven guilty.
OK thinker.... you got me on that one!!
Oh, haven't you heard XDM? ANYONE can LEGALLY purchase a firearm on-line WITHOUT a background check.........THAT'S RIGHT ANYONE!! Including anyone with a mental illness or criminal history EVEN TERRORISTS!!!.....ergo, EVERYONE is a legal gun owner.......(just one of the many loopholes the NRA fought for in their quest for an UN-regulated militia.........enjoy........)
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what is commonly known as BULLSH1T. But you already knew that, didn't you Chucktard?
Our goverment cannot keep illegal drugs or immigrants out of this country. Do you really think they will be able to keep guns out? It amazes me how some people think! At least allow us law abiding citizens to fairly defend ourselves.
Our government is able to track every cow that might be infected with mad cow disease, every chicken egg that may have salmonella but they can't locate 11 million illegal residents.
trailer park trash....
It was a RV park, a place where people who are driving RVs can rest and take a break. It's not a trailer park like you think
You're degrading trash...better stated : Trailer park inhabitants.
I thought they said the police? It looks like a door to door in Iraq!
....killed with the gun purchased to protect the family...........again........
Yes, we need to blame all of this on guns. Absolutely, no doubt. Just look at the facts: in cities with extreme gun control, Chicago, Baltimore, NYC, LA there is no gun crime. Actually there is no crime of any sort in those cities because the bad guys know the police will be there to stop them from committing crimes. Gun control has proven to work there. In countries around the world where guns are pretty much impossible to obtain there is almost zero crime. No rapes, beatings, murders, or violence of any sort. Yepper, gun control works. Just ask all those dead people in Mexico. And then research the violent crime rates of Great Britain and Australia, just for kicks.
Xbonz, you're gonna get creamed for saying that by the people that don't get sarcasm!! LOL
I don't like guns. Don't want to own one. But the problem is not the guns. It is the breakdown in moral character of the people holding the guns. It is a societal problem, the guns are just an extension of it. If you took away the guns, they'd use knives.
Shhhh.... you're using logic and that is NOT permitted here.
In truth, regardless of the "gun laws" on the books, criminals by thier very nature tend to disobey the law and WILL get whatever they want, whenever they want.
Even if they have to steal it (sarcasm off).
Prohibition in the United States was a national ban on the sale, manufacture, and transportation of alcohol, in place from 1920 to 1933. In essence prohibition provided a financial basis for organized crime to flourish. Rather than reducing crime it seemed prohibition had transformed entire cities into battlegrounds between opposing bootlegging gangs.
In similar if the Second Amendment is abolished similar effects like that of Prohibition will insue but they will be much worse.
Same thing happened with drugs. We are now fighting a war because we made them illegal. Guns would be no different if not worse.
Well put NRA Member... I own several guns. I carry a concealed Wepons Permit. And it is my constitutional right to protect myself and my family against anyone who tries to harm us. Do you really think criminals are going to turn in there guns just because the law said so?? Perhaps if criminals in this country were actually sentenced according to their crimes, and made to actually do the time, our crime rates wouldn't be so high!
Bow & Arrows I say.A gun is like hiding behind a woman.
Cash only...
I gather you missed yesterday's story about a 19yo "youth" who stabbed his grandmother about 100 times AND put a bolt from a cross bow into the back of her head. I don't think he was "hiding" behind her.