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Scout snipers in the Marine Corps shown with a flag bearing an "SS" similar in design to one used in Germany by the SS, a paramlitary force that operated under the Nazi party.
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told the Marine Corps on Friday to re-investigate and take appropriate action against the Marine snipers who posed with a logo resembling a notorious Nazi symbol.
The top Marine officer apologized for the incident and ordered his commanders to look into the use of such symbols by snipers and reconnaissance Marines and make sure they are educated on how inappropriate such actions are.
The rapid-fire announcements came on the heels of demands from a leading Jewish organization and others for President Barack Obama to order an investigation into the incident and to hold the troops accountable.
Earlier story: Marines posed with flag resembling Nazi SS symbol
Panetta met with Marine Corps Commandant James Amos on Friday to discuss, among other things, a spate of problem incidents involving Marines that have surfaced in recent months. A U.S. defense official said Panetta approved of the actions being taken by Amos to address the problems. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the meeting was private.
An initial Marine investigation into the matter concluded that the troops would not be disciplined because there was no malicious intent. The Marines mistakenly believed the "SS" in the shape of white lightning bolts on the blue flag were a nod to sniper scouts — not members of Adolf Hitler's special unit that murdered millions of Jews, Catholics, gypsies and others, said Maj. Gabrielle Chapin, a spokeswoman at Camp Pendleton, California.
But the furor over the photo — which was taken in September 2010 in Afghanistan — grew as Jewish leaders and others questioned whether it was an innocent mistake.
Pentagon press secretary George Little said that racist and anti-Semitic symbols have no place alongside U.S. service members.
And in a statement released Friday, Marine Corps Commandant James Amos ordered individual instruction for the sniper and reconnaissance Marines about the prohibitions against inappropriate symbols.
"I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines," Amos said. "On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident."
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Leave a Comment:
B S. The Marines have been using that sign since Nam. And it isn't the same as the German SS. The German one has a white stripe around it.
Anyways, America destroyed the real SS so we should be able to keep the letters if we want. The Jews should remember that too.. These Marines had no intent to copy the Nazis. No intent, no harm, no foul. Israel and the Obama administration should make a public apology to the whole squad. give them a beer summit R&R in France or Hawaii.
Its close enough that they should not be using. If there was no malicious intent,then fine. I can accept that. I did a little looking,and apparently it IS correct that the logo has been used for a long time. Still,the NAZIs ruined a lot of symbols. Apparently,anytime you have a eagle,clutching a swastika in its beak,perched on the hilt of a dagger,impaling the earth as your logo,some damned fool thinks your a Nazi...
There are variants with and without the border. Where else in the world can you find a double Sig rune?
Le-Roy, no matter what you say, it's exactly the same as the Schutzstaffel symbol. Exactly.
If what Le Roy is saying is true, and it's been in use since 'Nam, why are people JUST now noticing it?
-leroy2112
B S. The Marines have been using that sign since Nam. And it isn't the same as the German SS. The German one has a white stripe around it.
-------------------------------------
Wasn't the background on the Nazi SS black?
OK, if you do a Google image search on "scout sniper emblem" you find a lot of crossed rifle - skull emblems with the motto "one shot one kill". What you don't see is a very many images with the Schutzstaffel symbol. There were a couple that were uploaded in the last day or so. Check it out. Marines have or should have more sense than to use a WWII logo from a defeated enemy.
Marines surely love and know military history well enough to know that the symbol they are using here is from one of the most violent, hated groups of people to work a level of evil previously unknown to mankind. How can you possibly defend their use of this symbol even if it was used as far back as the Vietnam war. All that says is there has been a long vein of insensivity at best and straight ignorance at worst running through what is otherwise an honorable Corps.
The atheists claim that symbols are irrelevant with flag burning. If you can burn a flag with no consequences because an American flag is not a symbol of America, why can't you carry a flag with the letters SS that stand for Scout Snipers? The Japanese flag still flies, correct?
Because these are United States Marines, Vincent. The second they put on that uniform, they represent something greater than themselves; they represent the United States. You have to earn that privilege with every waking action you take, and these men knew better.
We are known throughout the world as "Ugly Americans", now you know why.
"B S. The Marines have been using that sign since Nam. And it isn't the same as the German SS. The German one has a white stripe around it."
It is the same as the German SS. Here is a link to a screenshot from the site they probably bought it from: freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/files/2012/02/nazi-flags.jpg
Ya, Nam worked out real well. Love how our Vets were treated to ticker tape parades.
LevTolstoy2 - I don't think that is a site where you can purchase Nazi paraphernalia. That's a blog about skepticism and freethought, etc.
Toasty, you kill me sometimes...you really do. You know absolutely NOTHING about what it means to be in combat, the bonds, the overwhelming stress - how you are essentially taught to be the best killer of other humans possible and thats what you do in order to survive your deployments.
I know what you think you mean, honor and the uniform and Im quite certain that these men feel that way but its the same thing as a couple of firefighters walking out of a burnt building laughing where several people died; its taken out of context and used by the media that captures it to promote something other than what its intended for.
Next thing you know people like you will be severely upset that the Marines carry rifles that could kill people, after all how could they? Who in their right mind would have gun toting killers representing the US of A
"LevTolstoy2 - I don't think that is a site where you can purchase Nazi paraphernalia. That's a blog about skepticism and freethought, etc."
Yes. And said blog happens to contain a screenshot from another website. Here is the original link: totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30
Look just a bit more than halfway down the page. But scroll slowly and try to count how many swastikas you see...
These symbols are approved by the brass. How about some brass head rolling for allowing this to go on since Nam. The soldiers were just displaying their pride which is good.
Court Martial for these idiots.
Nazi iconography is NOTHING to be proud of.
My boss is a Marine. He is an outstanding leader, and a great guy to work for. I hate to see his branch of the military tarnished by this obscenity, and I hope the Marines do the right thing and get rid of this @!$%#e.
I doubt they were thinking anything nazi when they posed for this picture. At least I hope not.
This is what gets me. A symbol can be used for good or evil. Just like guns can be used to protect or destroy. The choice is in our intent. Instead we choose to attack the symbol. Countries making laws banning symbols are literally pushing the memory into forgetfulness. Eventually nobody will be talking about the nazi regime and we run the greatest threat of history repeating itself. Past mistakes MUST be discussed lest we forget and attacking free speech does not help. It is like the old days of the 'church' burning books because knowledge was a bad thing.
Nice attempt at changing the subject Riley, but it was too obvious. Try again, kiddo.
LevTolstoy2 - Thanks for the clarification.
Feel dirty even peeking at that site!!
Toasty - Do you really think you know their intent sitting in your armchair pecking at your keyboard? I think not.
There are a thousand ways to write a double "S" abbreviation for "Scout Snipers", but choosing lightning bolts is a deliberate choice made with full awareness that those are the symbols of the SS. One would have to be shockingly ignorant, and especially so if in the military, to not be aware of what the double lightning bolts stand for. I can't think of a single soldier in my unit (and we were reservists, not even full timers) who wouldn't have known that.
Take a good look at that photo - an all white unit flying a flag with SS lightning bolts on it, and some are seriously trying to explain it away as something other than what it obviously is?
For those who don't get it, this is an insult to all the decent folk around the world who sacrificed to send the SS and what it stood for to the dustbin of history. Some people might approve of the SS and think they're "cool" and "badass" or whatever. But they were a bunch of murderous scum who supervised the holocaust and murdered millions of unarmed folk in cold blood - including Americans (look up "Malmedy" sometime). So screw that unit's flag, screw them, and screw their service - it's not like there's a shortage of capable and decent Marines already in the Corps and in the pipeline who could replace them and do their job just as well.
My grandpa fought those aszholes in WW2, and until the day he died, decades later, he still had bits of shrapnel in him. So if you're trying to find justifications for making the SS flag and symbols OK again, screw you too.
eric Holder should investigate Obama's connection to G M. They use the SS too.
troll harder.
Aww...someone's bitter over the successful bailout of the auto industry.
and drive benz cars and wear hugo boss coture.......liberal wack jobs. better off telling IDF to stop shooting children.
It's amazing that FORD recovered without the bailout or mass lay-offs and dealership closures.
Ford wasn't in the same trouble
Haha, good one Leroy
JOregon - Their stock was incredibly low not to long ago.
Low yes, but not emergency level low.
Ya but their SS refers to Super Sport.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1968-Chevrolet-Camaro-SS-396-blue-h-nf.jpg
K I S S has the same style lettering. So does AC DC.
A sig rune has two halves of equal size. In KISS, they look pretty similar, but the upper and lower halves of the S are of unequal length.
KISS is a group with mediocre musical talent.
The only way they could make money was to produce a SHOCK show.
Alice Cooper started that trend.
Their whole existence depended on offending and you use that as justification - bizarre.
Well that just clouds things up so much that I completely stopped thinking about how this logo still looks exactly like a Nazi symbol.
Er, no I didn't.
The Jews should STFU. We are over there Killing Muslims for them.
This is just silly. A Marine sniper unit is displaying their pride in what they do the bad guys; and lightening bolts from the sky pretty much describes what snipers do. The people who are so offended need to take a breath and get a broader perspective, turns out the U.S. Marines are not anti-Jewish nation; they are actually fighting against radical Muslims for the sake of freedom worldwide.
I see the PC police are storming the streets again. This was all started by a jewish bigot who is at war with Christianity. Is holder going to investigate the KKKs complaints about the Black Panthers?
NV, if you truly are what you claim you are, then you know that you earn the privilege of wearing that uniform with every action you take. And while you don that uniform, you represent the United States of America. These men knew better than to pull this @!$%#, and they did it anyway, ignoring the damage it did to the mission and the risk if may now put their fellow marines in.
The Defense Secretary and Marine Corp have said it was inappropriate. Are you disagreeing with the Marine Corps Commandant? No matter what, I would not disrespect their opinion, since I think they are thinking about their servicemen in the field and the honor of all U.S.A. troops.
Who died and made those MEN Gods? The opinion of no man, regardless of status, position, rank, whatever you want to call it, is ever subject to be absolute. They are as human as the soldiers doing their jobs.
The brass have to bow down to Obama. It is a campaign year.
The Marines have had there share of dregs scrapped from the bottom of the barrel, even after the end of the draft. So what is new about this? Every organization as extensive as this will have some dregs, some more than others, just look at the Republican party if you want to see and excess of dregs. ROFL!
These are Marines that are risking there lives for your sorry dreg @ss ! Any one of those Marines would be happy to stomp your CS @ss !!!
Ps lawdog-1278093 did you read the report about low IQ's and conservatives, very telling. Get someone to read it to you (there are no pictures) when "there" not risking "there" lives for me. By the way I spent my time in hell with some damn good Marines that NEVER would have dreamed to have "there" picture taken with a NAZI flag. Here is your link to why you and your kind have low IQ's sorry for you, and your kind, but hey it is what it is......... ROFL this time MAO!
http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
@the dog
Not everyone has to go to the military to learn how to fight. Ok now go back to your early morning budweiser.
@H8tParty
Why am I not suprised? Anyways, thanks for sharing the link.
Number 1, I'm glad these guys are on our side.
Number 2, I think they are way too smart to say it was an accident or oversight.
Number 3, I think they should say oops, sorry. Get a new logo and a pay raise.
In WW2,some nazis were expert snipers.Russians were too,but America did not have as much snipers.Now it is flip flopped,as our American snipers are the experts of sniping.
Carlos Hathcock pretty much revived military sniping from the doldrums.
Can't they just stick to his white feather and drop the SS? Or did he start the SS thing as well?
The top of our military machine hasn't got a glue what are boys are all about. That's from BO on down. They're a disgrace to the men and women they send into battle. And they say we'll be using more special forces of all branches of the military. Glad I don't work for somebody that wouldn't stand up for me.
I understand that many of the troops are young and will make mistakes; they can learn. Real leaders help their troops grow and become better than they were. However racist bigots like you are the real problem. Attitudes like this is what allowed the Gestapo and the SS to become the murder machines of the 20th century. The German 'silent majority' allowed themselves to be hi-jacked by Hitler's mass hysteria. We are better than this.
"The Marines mistakenly believed the "SS" in the shape of white lightning bolts on the blue flag were a nod to sniper scouts — not members of Adolf Hitler's special unit that murdered millions of Jews, Catholics, gypsies and others, said Maj. Gabrielle Chapin, a spokeswoman at Camp Pendleton, California."
WTH!!! SS were Catholics! They didn't kill Catholics. Comments like this are how history gets rewritten. The Vatican was behind the murder of 18 million innocent people who were not Catholic; Hitler was simply a puppet of Rome. If there were a few Catholic victims in the mix, it was purely accidental in their bloodthirsty craze, as Catholics were the perpetrators, not the victims. Hitler himself was a close friend of the Pope, had written agreements with him, and was funded by the Jesuits to divide Europe in order to better take control of the people. It is a crime against humanity to cover up the horrendous crimes of this bestial cult posing as a religion of peace world wide. The worst crimes against humanity have been done by the Catholic Church in the name of the Christian Savior. What a curse to the human race.
That's some pretty potent Kool Aide you're swiggin on. Can I interest you in an alien corpse?
@hiddenworldnews, sorry to burst your bubble, but perhaps you too should check your historical facts. Maybe you are receiving your information on the Catholic Church being in bed with the Nazis from the KGB?
"The Vatican was behind the murder of 18 million..." -- You seriously think that? Did the Pope himself order these victims to the gas chambers? or perhaps it was he who invaded Poland? did the Catholic Church even support Nazi Germany? [In case you didn't know, the answer is no to all of those]
While Hitler and the Pope did sign an agreement that was supposed to guarantee the rights of Catholics in Germany, Hitler never respected the treaty. He dissolved the Catholic Youth League, killed thousands of Catholic priests and nuns, as well as the suppression of Catholic publications. The Pope even publicly condemned Nazi actions as early as 1937. You can even read Piux XI's condemnation (it's called Mit brennender Sorge and yes, it's available in English) if you'd like to learn some facts. It is true that the Catholic Church may have remained mum when it mattered, but then again, so did the US (until, of course we were attacked.)
"a few Catholic victims in the mix" -- It's estimated that nearly 3 million Catholics were killed as a result of Nazi atrocities. While this number pales in comparison to the number of Jews killed, it's still quite significant. Additionally, although victims were not specifically killed for being Catholic (but instead Catholics who were Poles, resistance fighters or harbored Jews,) the number remains the same.
Also, though Hitler was raised Catholic, he held great contempt for the religion and its Jewish roots. He even replaced the Bible with Mein Kampf in schools.
I can understand if you dislike Catholicism and even Christianity as a whole, but saying they were the murderers in WWII is almost as ignorant as denying the Holocaust.
anonymous24213 it is good to see some resonses from someone who has some facts and is logical, balanced and respectful. Thanks.
I think the expert snipers are on this web site.
You people seem to be suggesting that the Marines in this photo are stupid or ignorant. We have known gang members enlisting in the military to obtain weapons training and you think white supremists can't do the same thing? That flag doesn't look like it got put together on the spur of the moment. The investigation is warranted to determine if there's more going on here than simple poor judgement. If it was an innocent mistake then sobeit. If not, then toss the guy(s) responsible.
Oh good Christ...WTF is wrong with our country? Same fu{king story every day. Pols legislating bu11s#it to look good to constituents. Both sides....BOTH SIDES...that is the root of what is wrong with this country. Lock and load...stock your basement...this will be the year we take the country back.
??? Relax, take a deep breath, step back from the ledge... It'll all be OK. This article does not portend the end of the world as we know it.
Yep Don...you're one of the many that will say "How the fu(k did THIS happen?' Our government is baffling us with BS. I'm tired of it. 'Take your eye off the ball and let us rape you' it's the American politician's way
There's a really cool article on MSN about a purple squirrel. Is that distraction? Sorry you don't see why poor behavior by a few of our soldiers gives our entire military a black eye and reflect poorly on our entire country but that's the way it is. Most of our soldiers are good, well meaning, honest individuals who are trying to make the best of the bad situation they've been put it. Idiots who photograph themselves pissing on corpses and these (supposedly) ignorant Marines don't help. When our Secretary of State or President is trying to work with foreign leaders and they have to take time out to talk about this, it's a problem.
As far as paying attention goes... This country got led down the path of vengence after 911 and we've been paying for it ever since. Instead of looking at where we've screwed up we want to talk about contraception, gay marriage, health insurance, and Newt's extramarital affairs. Keep your eye on the ball, indeed!
It's the same story...Catch 22. Americans will pay for what we've voted for
The lightning bolts like that are a symbol older than the marines or the nazis. Probably goes back a couple thousand years. It's an interesting symbolism though being that our government today pretty mch behaves like the Nazis in so many ways. This is kind of like people who get terribly upset because they see a swastika somewhere. Its really stupid. For one thing, in the end it is only a symbol. For another, to understand symbols, you have to understand them right down to their very smallest intricacies. A swastika with its flags one way is a religious/spiritual symbol of power and has been part of many religious traditions and positive occult knowledge, turned the other way and its negative occult or nazi type stuff. To understand their use of this lightning bolt symbol we would have to really study it better.
Symbols are powerful, they stand for something, they make a statement. The United States military and for that matter the police are making a statement, and that statement is that they stand for the most despicable and cravenly inhuman policies and tactics. That they are no longer soldiers defending something but homicidal maniacs with an agenda of genocide and absolute power over the world and the people. They will be defeated and smashed like so many others before them that dreamed of world domination.
The US military has been totally disgraced and have lost the total respect of the world, even our allies are running for the hills.
Fascism must be defeated at any cost anywhere it is unearthed.
Both of you are right. It's important to understand the history of a symbol because, while it may mean one thing to the person who displays it, it may mean something entirely different to the person looking at it. I'd like to think that most, if not all, of those Marines viewed the symbol they were using as a positive representation of their unit. Unfortunately, the symbol they used conveys a different meaning to many other people who have viewed it.
Maybe this is a good example of poor communication?
It is how you put the symbols together that makes the difference.
Nothing wrong with the Alphabet. I bet any one of us can put letters together that would be very offensive.
Yes it is "just a symbol." However, this particular symbol is unmistakably associated with the Nazi SS. And whoever ordered this flag almost certainly knew that.
The SS grew from a paramilitary organization to include a military arm (the -Waffen) and eventually grew to include the national police force. The SS was thus everywhere in German society, and the poor cops who wanted nothing to do with it got sucked into it.
However, I don't think people who militarily worship the SS do it because of the cops. And the snipers would certainly have never picked the double-sig Nordic rune (which is SS) if the Schutz Staffel did not have its reputation. There is almost nothing that stops them from using any other picture or font to depict the words "SS". They even preserve the black background, white rune of the German organization. Their intent to emulate is clear.
If they even tried to make a lightning bolt out of it, they probably could have escaped trouble. Even using different colors would've helped. Those Marines dug themselves into that hole. What would Hathcock have done?
This logo has been with the sniper scouts for a long long time. Google sniper scouts and see their patches and flags. We should be proud of men and women in the armed forces and the people in charge had better start learning what it's all about.
I did what you asked and you're right, there is a history there. Some of those symbols and patches are unquestionably Nazi in origin. Had any unit attempted to use them in the two decades after WWII the unit leader would have been subject to Court Martial. There are many other symbols and patches that have nothing to do with the Nazis. By the time Viet Nam came around lots of stuff was getting slipped through, which doesn't make it right. It's surprising that the Marines have tolerated this for so long in the post draft days.
I don't see why a banner is so important to their espirit. Then again, the services have their fraternities: the 11Bs, the red legs...and that's just the army.
Let's see - these Marines go out into the wild for days on end, sleep in shifts, to nail a couple of high value targets.
These targets lead terrorists and you complain about the "Super Sport" symbol of a chevy !
Retired Marine GySgt.
You are an idiot, and they do not only kill terrorists, and yes I am complaining about our military using a symbol of the Waffen SS, Hitlers elite genocidal murderers.
The Marine Corps needs to be disbanded, it is becoming a home to the worst elements of our society, no honor, no morals, no scruples. It is time to disband this group of criminals.
The above post by an ex-Marine says it all!!!!
Clearly, the two of you assign very different levels of importance to the symbol used. Thanks for your service Sgt. It is appreciated.
There is no such thing as an "ex Marine"
Marines are Marines for life, even after they're no longer active.
That is NOT the SS found on a Chevy. If they used that font there wouldn't be a problem, unless GM sued.
I think it looks cool.
"But the furor over the photo"
I see what you did there!
I am totally convinced that not a single one of you big macho men have any idea - not even the foggiest notion - of what Hitler's Schutzstaffel was really all about. I do not believe that there is a single one of you, doubtless born after World War II, who could imagine the absolute, sheer terror that the name and symbol (SS) struck in the hearts and minds of both soldier and civilian. To try to rationalize the use by a U.S. Marine unit or units of the double-lightning bolt symbol of an organization of trained cold-blooded killers is a manifestation of the total ignorance and insensitivity of those attempting such rationalization, say nothing of the grossest insult to and defamation of the memories of the millions of people who were murdered by the Schutzstaffel, its secret police arm known as the Geheimestaatspolizei (a/k/a Gestapo) and its so-called military arm known as the Waffen SS. And I would also add that no USMC unit ever had to do battle with the Waffen SS; no member of the USMC was ever executed as a POW by the Waffen SS. Indeed, all of those comments defending the unit or units of the USMC about the use of the SS symbol is tantamount to spitting on the graves of all those American soldiers who died at the hands of the Waffen SS in World War II, and especially those American POWs of the United States Army who were murdered in cold blood at Malmédy, Belgium in December 1944. Macho men, yeah! To me you are a bunch of frightened cowards and world-class coprocephalics!
[coprocephalic. having human excrement in the cranium, @!$%#head.]
Thanks, I've learned something new. It would be nice if we could take the middle, high road here and agree that the use of the symbol was inappropriate and that any action taken should be based on an impartial investigation into the motives of the Marines who displayed it. You do make a good point on why our military units don't fly the flags of our past enemies.
Posed with a logo "resembling" a Nazi symbol....how about we get someone in this administration that resembles someone with common sense.
No "resemble" whatsoever--it IS a NAZI symbol. The ones who needed common sense were the completely irresponsible, incredibly arrogant, willfully ignorant, chicken hawk neo-cons who ran the Bush administration and got us into two ruinously expensive debacles in the first place.
Clearly the Marine Corps. had to dredge up the scum of society to fill their ranks. Every one of them are a disgrace to the uniform, and the soldiers and marines who died fighting the Nazis.
Impossible....In this administration, common sense will not be tolerated!
I severed for a long time and in a lot of places with some very elite squad members. All 6 of us took on a symbol that was an upside down question marks with 3 lighting bolts above it. We all got it tattooed on our upper right shoulder blade. The upside down question mark questions whom is the supreme higher power. We were all in our early 20's and had now clue that later in life we would be asked if we worshiped SATAN. Hell we had no idea, we thought we were the highest power when we were tasked with going out on a mission. A lot of time we choose who lived and who we did not let live. It is all kind of funny when we look back on the symbol we used.
This is just a tight nit group of soldiers that made a banner without thinking and had a picture taken. Did they use their best judgment; NO Does this still need to be in the news; NO
Tell them to get rid of the banner and move on, nothing to needs done about it. Really do not see how this is even news worthy. There is a lot worse going on in this world, come on MSNBC.....
A soldiers perspective is worthwhile. Bet you would have passed on the tattoo if you had a do over though, huh... Most of us recognize that we were once "young, dumb, and full of cum."
Hind sight is 20/20. You are probably right DEPUTY DON, the tattoo and a lot of other dumb decisions i me 10-25 years ago... LOL