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U.S. Marshall / AP
This combo of eight photos provided by the U.S. Marshals Service on Monday March 29, 2010 shows from top left, David Brian Stone Sr., 44, of Clayton, Mich,; David Brian Stone Jr. of Adrian, Mich,; Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio; Tina Mae Stone and bottom row from left, Michael David Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Mich,; Kristopher T. Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; Joshua John Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Mich.; and Thomas William Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind., suspects tied to Hutaree, a Christian militia. Jury selection is getting under way in Detroit federal court Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2012, nearly two years after the dramatic arrest of people who authorities say belonged to a southern Michigan militia with a goal of rebelling against the government.
DETROIT -- Seven members of a Midwest militia accused of plotting to overthrow the government are set to stand trial, where jurors will decide whether federal authorities prevented an attack by homegrown extremists or simply made too much of the boasts by weekend warriors who had pledged to "take our nation back."
Opening statements are set for Monday once a jury is seated in the trial of members of the Hutaree militia, who are charged with conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, as well as weapon crimes.
Following the March 2010 arrests in southern Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said the time had come for authorities to "take them down." An undercover agent had recorded the group's leader, David Stone, saying the militia needed to "start huntin'" police soon.
But since their capture, only one of nine people charged has struck a plea deal, an unusually low number in a case with so many defendants. Their attorneys have maintained a consistent stance: The anti-government talk was simply colorful yet aimless bluster akin to frustrated pals drowning sorrows around a campfire.
"I'm going to fight it tooth and nail," David Stone's wife and co-defendant Tina Mae Stone said during a break in jury selection last week. "It was just a bunch of good ol' boys out to have fun. We did survival stuff. I did it mostly to spend time with my husband. People tell me, 'good luck.' I don't need luck. I've got God on my side."
The militia prepared for survival in case of domestic chaos or an attack on the United States, attorneys Todd Shanker and Richard Helfrick said in a court filing. They noted the group even had a website and promoted its weekend outings.
"Regardless of the charges in the indictment, there is no dispute that the aims of the Hutaree militia included the free exercise of their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, including freedom of speech, association, assembly and the right to bear arms," said the lawyers, who represent David Stone Jr., the leader's son.
The indictment, however, describes a more sinister band. The government says the Hutaree, based in Michigan's Lenawee County, was an anti-government group committed to fighting authorities who belong to a so-called "New World Order." The defendants are accused of conspiring to someday ambush and kill a police officer, then attack the funeral procession with explosives and trigger a broader revolt against the U.S. government.
"The court will hear testimony and examine evidence concerning this particular group's hatred for, and desire to do physical harm to, law enforcement," Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Graveline said.
The government has more than 100 hours of audio and video, including the recording of David Stone, 47, apparently talking about police.
"I think we gotta just start huntin' 'em here pretty soon. ... They're easy to find, they're sittin' alongside the road and they got these red and blue lights on top of their car," he said.
But some conversations were sprinkled with laughter and a mix of subjects, including strippers and drawing Hitler mustaches on photos of state troopers. Agents seized machine guns, unregistered rifles, ammunition and parts for improvised explosive devices.
The government's case got off to a rough start in 2010, when U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts released the nine until trial under strict conditions. The government swiftly appealed but then agreed that four could go home wearing electronic monitors. An appeals court ultimately ordered the other five to remain locked up, including David Stone.
The government relied on an undercover agent inside the group and an informant. But the informant comes with warts: He pleaded guilty in state court to firing a gun during a dispute with his wife and also attempted suicide. Another witness who was married to a Hutaree member not charged in the case attempted suicide and told a grand jury she's prone to panic attacks.
"How often do American citizens get charged with sedition or inciting discontent and resistance against big government? Heck, most citizens are discontented with the government," said Lloyd Meyer, a Chicago lawyer and former terrorism prosecutor. "In this case, no one pulled a trigger and no one got hurt. ... A jury could believe that the feds went after this group with a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel."
But Alan Gershel, a former prosecutor who teaches at Cooley Law School in suburban Detroit, said the allegations in the indictment seem more than goofy talk.
"There was planning. There was acquisition of firearms. There was training," he said. "Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired? You have to choose the moment of time when things go beyond chatter. That's what the government is aiming at here."
Joshua Clough of Blissfield, Michigan, is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors. He pleaded guilty in December to illegal use of a firearm, faces a mandatory five-year prison sentence and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree.
Besides the Stones, the other defendants are Michael Meeks of Manchester, Michigan; Joshua Stone of Lenawee County; Thomas Piatek of Whiting, Indiana; and Kristopher Sickles of Sandusky, Ohio. Jacob Ward of Huron, Ohio, will have a separate trial. Besides conspiracy charges, all face at least one firearms charge and some have more.
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Great idea, but it should be done legally.
Vote Democrats and Republicans out of office for all time. They have screwed our country up enough.
Take away their base at the state and local level.
These parties both belong in the history books under "dark ages of the United States".
I will never vote for either party ever again, and I have voted for both.
If these guys are guilty of anything more than weapons violations then OWS protestors that vandalized and forced their way into Government facilities should be ready to do real time. These guys talked about taking action, OWS actually took action and in some cases Officers have been injured.
When will people realize that the old "Vote them out" mantra is useless. There will never be a viable third party candidate. Our system will not allow it.
At best you can only vote half of those that have the real power out at a time (the congress). And by the time it comes around to vote the OTHER half out, the newbies have already been corrupted. And the cycle continues.
I always ask myself this question at election time: Why would a person spend MILLIONS of dollars for a job that pays a fraction of that? In my 40 years of voting eligibility, the only answers I can come up with are sinister ones.
Gloryhound said:
If these guys are guilty of anything more than weapons violations then OWS protestors that vandalized and forced their way into Government facilities should be ready to do real time.
Yes they should. Homeland Security's list of domestic terrorists now includes 'lawful acts of civil disobedience' and 'militias', and you'll see a decrease in these individuals when the NDAA kicks in Feb 29:
Alternative media
Anarchist extremism
Animal rights extremism
Anti-abortion extremism
Anti-immigration extremism
Anti-technology extremism
Aryan prison gangs
Black bloc
Black nationalism
Black power
Black separatism
Christian Identity movement
Cuban independence extremism
Decentralized terror movement
Denial-of-service attacks
Direct action (including lawful acts of civil disobedience like the Occupy protests)
Environmental extremism
Ethnic extremism
Extremist groups
Green anarchism
Hacktivism (technology-enabled social/political activism)
Hate groups
Jewish extremism
Leaderless resistance
Left-wing extremism
Lone terrorists
Mexican separatists
Militia Movements (including conspiracy theorists)
Neo-Nazis
Patriot Movement
Phineas Priesthood
Primary targeting(directly supporting/funding terrorists)
Puerto Rican independence extremists
Radical Norse mysticism practitioners
Racialists
Right-wing extremists
Single-issue/multiple issue extremist groups
Skinheads whose ‘dress may include shaved head/short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens and a bomber jacket’
Sovereign citizen movement
Tax resistance movement
Violent anti-war extremism
Violent religious sects (includes those who stockpile food and weapons)
White Nationalists
White Power advocates
White Supremacists
I'm curious as to what the response to this would be if they were Muslim.
Or had Hispanic/Latino names.
There's going to be a lot more people so called "plotting to overthrow the government" the way the status quo is running things. It's time for some real change, it's time for some politicians that respect and adhere to the Constitution.
They will be labeled "domestic terrorists" by the anti-Constitutional oligarchy, but in reality, they will be freedom fighters! They can't lock up everyone under the NDAA, the people will be heard.
Prohibition said;
They will be labeled "domestic terrorists" by the anti-Constitutional oligarchy, but in reality, they will be freedom fighters! They can't lock up everyone under the NDAA, the people will be heard.
Oh, and here comes the Enemy Expatriation Act, or HR3166, which was introduced to the House of Representatives last month after the NDAA was signed.
Basically what his says is that any USC, whether native born or naturalized, can have citizenship stripped or revoked if any of the below 'terrorism indicators' are met:
We all know how people are reacting to the issue of 'illegals'--people's reactions run the range from 'deportation' to 'shoot them all', and Homeland Security says we have 20 million 'illegals' in the US. So if you're suddenly labeled an 'illegal terrorist' by the media, how many of 'the people' are going to stand up and speak for you? As a former illegal myself (declared illegal after USCIS lost an adoption paper 18 years after it was filed) I can say with complete certainty--very, very few.
I am disgusted that the Government is even putting forth laws like this in the name of "fighting terrorism". I am even more disgusted that people are either too blind or to partisan to call for an immediate cesation of government warfare against the populous. The OWS movement clamours for attention but won't speak out for ALL freedoms, the Tea Party howls for noterioty but couldn't care less about the freedoms of folks outside their voting bloc, and all the time the Republicans and Democrats play us against each other to further the Fuedalization of America. Are you all going to wait until we are divided into serfs and lords before you take a stand against the mismanagment of the Government? It's all well and good to vomit retoric onto MSNBC or whatever other blog you attend too but are you actually going to stand up for AMERICA? The idea that you have the right to say and do whatever you choose so long as it doesn't harm anyone else physically is sacracent in our legal code and yet now getting drunk and talking smack is a capital offense. Make no mistake these people are being charged with treason. It is Waco or Ruby Ridge all over again. Don't think like us, don't support us? Well than we're going to end you! Make no mistake though, Bush set this in motion with the Patriot Act so the Republicans bear just as much blame. It's high time we take a stand against government paternalism and interference. It is high time we as Americans reclaimed our birth right and made the government fear our mobilization. At the polls and in the streets, it is time this country returned to it's rightful heirs. We the People.
I totally agree Sonar.
"We may be tossed upon an ocean where we can see no land -- nor, perhaps, the sun or stars. But there is a chart and a compass for us to study, to consult, and to obey. That chart is the Constitution." - Daniel Webster
Although they're not a "regulated militia", like our reserve forces are (technically the US is not suppose to have a full-time standing army during times of peace per Article 1 Secton 8 "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years"), as militias fall under STATE authority, not federal EXCEPT to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions --- like it did against the blacks in the 60's who were being repressed by both governments (Federal and State). Federal should have PROTECTED them under Amendment 14, geesh.
Under Article VI: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. [FYI, the "Laws of the United States" are the Laws created by all the Sovereign States aka Union that must comply with the US Constitution, as well as any treaties].
Unless the State, as in "Laws of the United States" created a law that what in oppostion of the US Constitution I am unsure why Federal Authorities were even involved in this? Me thinks the Federal Government needs to CHECK THEMSELVES and remain with the constraints of the Constitution, until a formal Constitutional Amendement (3/4 or All States and 2/3 of Congress) has been ratified granting ruling powers over all states and persons -- like King George II had.
IMO they got the wrong people on trial and need to bring down the FED.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."
- Thomas Jefferson
Let's tap all Federal offices so we can be sure they aren't making dangerous statements or endangering our guaranteed rights (See Articles 1 to 9)...just sayin.
Amanda,
While number 9 through 15 should not be allowed, I fully agree with 1 through 8.
A Senate companion bill also exists to HR 3166 it is S 1698
In reality everything your trying to claim this republcan congressman is trying to do is already law. Look up 8 USC, chapter 12, subchapter III, part III, line 1481
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481
If you notice it specifically says with Intention. The intention would have to be proven. So you are really looking at things without really fully reading what is trying to be done. Kinda like having to pass the health care law before knowing what is in it.
This one should be "an act of treason against the US Constitution". Although then they'd have to renounce the citizenship for the entire Obama administration, as well as a large majority of Congress and Senate.
But the military takes an oath to protect the constitution first, it always comes first. Anything less is unpatriotic.
Those are the mugshots of the people involved in a giant conspiracy to overthrow the government? They couldn't have been hard to find. They probably held their meetings between shifts on the Tilt-a-Whirl at the county fair.
They look like your typical Inbred Christian Rednecks. I wonder if those sores are caused by Meth usage.
Sandy...
I gather you're a pseudo-intellectual.. oh and a bigot to boot
wow sandy...what in-site, you can simply LOOK at a picture or in this case several pictures and make a determination like that?.... wow....and of course know all about inbreeding? how astute of you...grats on that.........you must be a real boon to the local PD what with your abilities and all.................:)
LOL! I live in the bible belt so I see people like that all the time so I know what I am talking about. It sounds like maybe I hit a cord of truth to get both of you so indignant. :D
So, Sandy, because I live in the south and am a Christian, that makes me inbred? Or less intelligent than you. You see people like that all the time probably because of the places you tend to frequent, which doesn't say a whole lot about you. There are quite a few of us here that are Christian, and well educated to boot, and like country music, farming, horses, and rodeos. Oh, I was born in Ohio if that is any comfort to you.
Pre -crime the tool of the police state. no one died , nothing was stolen? Freedom of speech only to lie to the population to keep them in check. Have guns talk bad about the the corruption and kleptocracy and you are revolutionary? Is the what the first revolutinaries from the King?
So you think the authorities should have waited until the perps massacred some cops? Um, I don't think so. Those fools should thank their lucky stars they got stopped before doing something really evil and foolish.
Nothing wrong with talking about changing the Government by voting, or petitioning, or protesting. But there is something seriously wrong with planning to massacre the people that uphold our legal system, that is treasonous.
since illegal immigrants are threatening to over throw our government through having kids, shouldn't they also go on trial and be deported?
Overthrow Government by having kids? ROFLMAO! That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen all week!
But never fear, the Obama administration has increased the number of border patrol agents, and stepped up investigations of companies hiring illegals, and stepped up the pace of arrests and deportations. In fact, the Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants in 3 years than the Bush Jr. administration has done in 8!
Your Government is safe from the "illegal baby brigades".
CM,
The increase in deportations is in spite of the adm. wishes. Look at the directives issued by the White House to stop deportations on all but those convicted of a crime. Holder is still trying to reign in ICE through shake ups and firings in the ICE department. As far as the increase in the boarder patrols that has occurred by mandate of the legislative branch. Do a little more research. Start by reading the executive orders of this President.
Age without wisdom said:
As far as the increase in the boarder patrols that has occurred by mandate of the legislative branch. Do a little more research. Start by reading the executive orders of this President.
When Bush was in office in 1994 there were 11,000 CBP (customs & Border Protection)officers at the border and he committed 564 National Guard troops. Under President Obama the number of CBP agents has grown to 18,000+ and the National Guard troop deployment has increased to 1200, their efforts now augmented by the deployment of several unmanned Predator drones. They are also now using Nogales, AZ to test a surveillance system that will continuously monitor 4 square miles or provide scanning monitoring for up to ten square miles. The technology also includes retina scanners that are reportedly accurate up to 15 feet away with the person being scanned running. Its called 'Wide Area Aerial Surveillance System'. Plans are also underway to fit the system to those Predator drones and test-fly that over Nogales, AZ.
See this clip from Cronkite News on the deportation numbers:
"Immigration officials announced that they deported nearly 400,000 undocumented immigrants in fiscal 2011, setting a record for a third consecutive year under the Obama administration.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said this week that the agency removed 396,906 illegal immigrants in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, of which 216,698 were convicted criminals. Most of those had been convicted of driving under the influence."
By comparison, here's how many deportations occurred during Bush's time:
year• 2001: 71,079
• 2002: 71,686
• 2003: 81,626
• 2004: 89,852
• 2005: 87,476
• 2006: 92,263
• 2007: 102,024
• 2008: 114,415
AgeWithoutwisdom said:
The increase in deportations is in spite of the adm. wishes. Look at the directives issued by the White House to stop deportations on all but those convicted of a crime.
Those directives weren't meant to halt deportations, but to prioritize them. In the rush to 'deport all illegals' the number of legal USC's being incarcerated and deported in error is increasing. By focusing on those who have committed crimes first it will give those who haven't been accused of crimes time to try and get together all the paperwork necessary for them to prove to ICE that they are legal. Trying to prove you're legal to ICE/DHS from behind bars without access to lawyers and internet is lengthy, even when you have relatives outside with whom you have contact.
Those directives weren't meant to halt deportations, but to prioritize them. In the rush to 'deport all illegals' the number of legal USC's being incarcerated and deported in error is increasing. By focusing on those who have committed crimes first it will give those who haven't been accused of crimes time to try and get together all the paperwork necessary for them to prove to ICE that they are legal. Trying to prove you're legal to ICE/DHS from behind bars without access to lawyers and internet is lengthy, even when you have relatives outside with whom you have contact.
After all this time I should respond...
" together all the paperwork necessary for them to prove to ICE that they are legal."
The fact is they are illegal. Period. They need to go home and get in line like everyone else.
What have we become? A Nation of kings, lords and serfs all over again 236 yrs later.
Um, nope, we've still got a representative government, and you're still free to vote for or against anyone for any office. No kings or lords or serfs. The Constitution still stands.
Sounds like you want to join those fools in their paranoid insanity.
Wow CM,
Have you not seen the bending and lack of respect for the constitution by all levels of government?
Homeland security
NDDA
executive orders to declare Marshall law
FEMA's preperation for holding camps.
Why would they do all these things if they did not want to suspend the constitution?
Ben Franklin said 'Those who give up a little liberty for a little security shall deserve neither and lose both'.
First there's the leaked list of activities that Homeland Security deems 'terroristic'--and among them are practitioners of Norse mysticism--Odinists. Seriously, when was the last time someone blew up a building 'in the name of the AllFather Odin?' And in this list is 'lawful acts of civil disobedience--like the Occupy protesters.
Then there's the list of websites that Homeland Security monitors for suspected terroristic activity. Like Hulu and HurricaneTrack.
Then comes SOPA, which allows the government to shut down websites that are suspected of online piracy or copyright infringement without a court order or due process or even proof of intent to commit piracy.
Then comes the NDAA 2012, which allows the government to indefinitely detain anyone, American citizen or not, on American soil or off, without charge or trial if they are suspected of terrorism--mind, that means they don't actually have to be convicted of terrorism, they just have to be suspected. Because of the uproar about indefinite incarceration of American citizens,the wording of the law was changed to say the US military is REQUIRED to detain you only if you are not a citizen; it is DISCRETIONARY if you are an American citizen.
Now here comes HR3166, also called the Enemy Expatriation Act. This allows the government to strip you of your citizenship if they even suspect you of terroristic activities. And if you think about it, once the government takes away your citizenship then the NDAA's requirement to detain' kicks in.
According to Wikipedia, there are now multiple government agencies either under the direction of, engaged in joint operations with, using software developed by, or partially/completely funded by Homeland Security, whose budget (according to Wikipedia sources) was $98 billion for FY2011:
US Customs and Immigration Services (USCIS)
Customs And Border Protection (CBP
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
The US Coast Guard (USCG)
The US National Guard
US Northern Command (US NorthCom)
US Southern Command (US SouthCom)
US Secret Service
Office Of The Inspector General
Domestic Nuclear Detection Office
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Federal Protective Service
National Communications System
Directorate for Science and Technology
Office of Health Affairs
Office of Intelligence And Analysis
Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties
Office of Legislative Affairs
Office of Counternarcotics Enforcement
Office of the Executive Secretariat
National Cyber Security Center
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
Directorate for Management (financial agency)
Office of Policy
Office of Operations Coordination
C'mon, Hulu admits that it's "an evil plot to destroy the world," so they have to monitor it. LOL.
Don't try these people, give them a medal!!! It's about time that someone stood up and decided that the government is crap!
It's our government, we own it, and we vote for the representatives that run it. We the People are not going to turn our government over to some psychotic paranoid loons who think everyone is after them.
No medals for those loosers.
WOW! Talk about lights on and no one is home. You have not been paying attention to the news lately about how they are trashing out our constitution. You are a typical sheeple you need to wake up and start watching more than FOX , NBC or CNN News. If you have not been paying attention the voter fraud is alive and well over 800 dead people voted for Mitt Romney. Maybe you should actually pay attention to the internet and not government lies!!! RON PAUL 2012
CM-6969 Sounds like your laying out the ol' fishing line to get those "terroriosts of the state" to bite.
Then you 'll have some more names on a list. Is this a government job, and how much does it pay?
These people made the huge mistake of commenting about "huntin' police" in the presence of an informer. They don't look like they could overthrow a county, let alone the federal government. One gets the distinct feeling that they want a country reserved for people "like them", but that idea is protected speech, as is advocating it. Only advocating violence against a specific person or group of persons is not.
There are not enough courts and judges to procecute everyone that is unhappy with our government and have had some of the same thoughts.
AZ Dave: I totally agree. Thats exactly the reason we now have over 800 fema detention camps right here on american soil. Hell, part of them are already fully staffed and operational. Why else would there be any need for the national defence authorization act to be signed into law on 12/31/2011? No need for courts, judges, and lawyers. We will just be rounded up in the middle of the night and sent off to never be seen or heard from again. How convenient, huh?
werallscrewed, you have been drinking too much Anti-Freeze and your brain has turned to mush if you believe that. LOL
Every nutcase that has said these things either can't point to where these FEMA camps are supposedly located or the location they give is a vacant lot or business.
So come on werallscrewed give us some locations. oh, I know... You won't because you are afraid the government will see you giving out secret information and make you disappear. LOL You are a riot. LOL
Sandy... maybe you should read the recently passed and signed NDAA.
It gives the MILITARY law enforcement powers against American Citizens on American soil.
When you finish reading that, read about the Posse Comitatus Act and why it was enacted and is now being eviscerated.
It's the right-wing domestic terrorist organizations that have a hit list of local police officers and government officials and engage in premeditated murder.
Well, some reporters investigated all those supposed "fema internment camps", and found there was nothing to all those paranoid rumors. One of the supposed "internment camps" was actually an Amtrak railroad maintenance facility that had been recently upgraded. They had replaced the old inefficient steam heating system with several natural gas heaters connected with new natural gas piping, and the nutters thought those natural gas lines were for mass poisonings!
There were housing facilities set up by FEMA for use in the event of a disaster, destroying homes, but it was hardly a "prison camp".
Not an iota of truth to those paranoid rants.
Bet they plan on using this group as an example for any others that want to stand up against the government. I know people that are also acquiring guns at this point. Maybe this is why they are bringing all those detainment camps back on line.
As far as voting for the people to run our government...what a joke that is. We are offered a bunch of yahoos that no one wants. How is that having any real say???
The NDAA for FY2012 allows the government to indefinitely detain anyone, American citizen or not, on American soil or off, without charge or trial if they are suspected of terrorism--mind, that means they don't actually have to be convicted of terrorism, they just have to be suspected. Because of the uproar about indefinite incarceration of American citizens,the wording of the law was changed to say the US military is REQUIRED to detain you only if you are not a citizen; it is DISCRETIONARY if you are an American citizen.
werallscrewed, XDm9mm:
Now here comes HR3166, also called the Enemy Expatriation Act. This allows the government to strip you of your citizenship if they even suspect you of terroristic activities. And if you think about it, once the government takes away your citizenship then the NDAA's requirement to detain' kicks in. See my above post at 1.4 for a list of what now constitutes 'terrorism'.
Kansas has at least one Militia near Sterling, a religious College town. Militias aren't bad because they exist, but because of their actions. Their purpose originally was to provide emergency defense and law enforcement in bad times. Many members are uneducated about laws and/or misdirected to the point of being brain washed by their leaders. Our Society is evolving into a different way of leadership and goals. These new ideas are not what many Militias want. I know what I write is controversial but is true. Many Militias are set up by our Government Officials to provoke or incite disorder which leads to their down fall. Look at WACO, Ruby Ridge. The outcome of these violent acts lead to things such as the Oklahoma City Alfred Murrah Federal Building being bombed by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Sure was strange that on that business day no Federal Officials with offices were killed that day yet a day care full of children were murdered. Our government makes it a point to know what people are doing around this Country. The only secrets are those of our Government not telling our citizens.
Not true, just paranoid thinking. Over 200 persons were killed.
These right-wing self-appointed vigilante groups are not set up by government officials, but reminants of the KKK and other confederate sympathizers.
When will people learn that we now live in the USSA, a police state that is teetering on the very edge of martial law. We are no longer free and have not been for a good long time. Either use the secret code or risk being sent off to one of the many manned and fully operational detention camps never to be seen or heard from again. Can you say Zieg Heil?
This is one of many ways to keep the population under control. Arrest them for their thoughts and what they stand for. This is worse than USSA. I felt better with more rights living in Socialist country Greece while in the A.F. The Government are taking away more freedoms and rights everyday and soon we will no longer have the right to think.
A right-wing conservative police state started under GWB.
It started long before GWB my friend.
Thems some pale, unedjucated people.
If they are uneducated, then maybe they have a right to be angry at the gov't. I'm angry that rich suburban kids get a better education, and a better shot at the American Dream, than poor inner-city and country kids. Until that changes, we are always going to have a simmering lower class.
The high blades of grass get the lawnmower every time.
Grass roots, now...that's a whole different story, isn't it?
These folks probably couldn't plan a picnic, let alone a revolution.
If such a thing ever occurs, it'll be a decapitation event- the top three federal leaders would die almost simultaneously, followed by wholesale elimination of individual state leadership, and culminating with sporadic assassination of members of the House and Senate as they surfaced.
The military would then step in to reestablish civil order- and would never release control again.
Any other prospective leaders would vanish as they emerged until no one dared to step out of line.
The Marines may remain loyal- but if the other three branches turn, it'll be over before you can even say "junta".
That begs the question: would that be better or worse by comparison to what we have now?
Rule by corporations simply doesn't seem sustainable...
The military would have great difficulty.
Besides the fact that the majority of combat troops come from the ranks of the citizen-soldier, the Guard and the Reserves and the 80+ million firearms owners in this country, a coup would be problematic indeed.
They crossed the line when they mentioned "huntin"... if in fact they actually did saw such things.
Of course our Law Enforcement establishment would NEVER say something that's not absolutely true.
Oh wait... WACO, and more recently.. let me think.. oh yeah.. FAST and FURIOUS.. No one knew anything, but a Border Patrol Agent was killed by one of the guns no-one knows about.
I had that terrible dream again. It's the second time in my life I've had it.
Last time I remember staying in the dream, as I had a sense of adventure. This time, I woke right up with my heart racing...not a good thing for someone my age.
I'm with a couple of girl friends, and we're reading the paper. I move my paper, and it lays a bit over the page my friend is reading. I apologize....
We hear low flying aircraft approach, and buzz the house a couple of times. I step outside to see what's going on.
It's a moonless night, and I walk the few feet to a chainlink fence. I see my dads '66 Chevy truck drive down the street, stop, and turn left. As I start to go back to the house, I notice the sky in front of me filled with huge, gray triangular ships moving slowly and silently in a southeasterly direction. Thinking they might be drones, I turn, and see the same thing...these aren't drones. I don't dare look directly up, but I know they're there, filling the sky. I crouch and begin to tip toe my way back to the door, hoping not to be noticed.
Last time I had this dream, I knew right off the get go what they were...had never heard of such a thing as a drone.
Add a few tatoos and the dorks in the photo will fit right in with the rest of the prison population.
Take our country back - the motto of the conservative GOP and TP; The TP and GOP are only a political front for right-wing domestic terrorist groups that want to destroy law and order in America so that they can institute the rule by intimidation. Just look at the fear in the politicians regarding the NRA. These people are not patriots, nor are they defenders of the Constitution. They, along with their GOP TP apologists, are intent on destroying legitimate elected government so they can rule by force. The cancer of right-wing conservatism is destroying America from within.
We don't have a legitimate government anymore. What we do have is a government that buys the vote of the masses, and then totally ignores the laws that govern it.
You cannot go and kill American citizens because they disagree with you, but the government can.
You cannot force somebody to pay your rent, buy your food, and give you money, but the government can.
Have we now come to this? Is it now illegal to oppose the gangster government? Is a thought now a crime? This is how they do it, find some rough, ignorant rednecks that look really bad, arrest them because they have guns and don't like the government. Your silence or support is consent, and when they come for you you will wonder how it came to that.
We have a government based on the due process of law; except for the activist right-wing judges that encourage lawlessness and undue influence of guns and money for political intimidation.
Really?How about undue influence of the left?Illegals,lgbt issues rammed down our throats{I'm not a rep}
lbgt issues rammed down your throats? I think not. They just want the same thing you enjoy, liberty!
NVM.Should be thankful they're not hunted down
pained, thanks for proving dls's point about hyper violent and paranoid right wing of this country. lgbt issues are not equivilent to the inflience of guns/money/religion. What's goin to happen? they gonna turn everyone gay. Illegels have always been here and have been pardoned many times by both sides. You should probably read something other than a gun manual.
They had unregistered rifles, machine guns and ammunition, so what? When did it become illegal to "keep and bear arms?" This is a test run, to see if the American people are ready to accept the logic that anybody who dislikes the government is a terrorist. The FBI and DOJ recently trained law enforcement to identify "potential terrorists" as;
People who make purchases only in cash.
People who think the government is withholding information about the 9/11 attacks.
People who buy gold.
People who buy food in bulk.
People who believe "conspiracy theories".
People who oppose US drone programs.
People who believe the 2nd Amendment guarantees them the right to own a firearm.
Got to have a class lll permit for each automatic, then there is no problem.
Moose....cammon....The "gov" that you rail about works from 9 to 5 with 1 1/2 hour lunch and at least two 1 hour breaks.
So where is all this conspiratorial training and planning coming from? Get real. I suppose that you think that the cops stay up all night to work on a case too don't you?
Like many extremists they are merely a symptom of a bigger problem.Sometimes you CAN'T read a book by its' cover,in this case I'm guessing we're spot on.They don't look like ah,um very bright folks.They MAY be misguided,but the notion that our government is out of control,makes decisions based on parameters that aren't concerned about the rights of the people?That they are upset with a government that has not been by of and for the people in a long while?I suspect they're not misguided in that sense at all. For instance, all of this buisiness about illegals,people taking different sides.If the government had been doing its' job,we would never have gotten to 1 million illegals,let alone"12-20 million".Thus never had divisive arguements about anchor babies,Dream act,splitting up families.
If this government is not run on behalf of the people its because the people dont give a damn../How many cant even name three members of the supreme court but can name the three stooges? We have the lowest rate of voter turnout of any democracy and just listen to the media tell us, and truthfully so, that this or that candidate has a large war chest and therefore has a good chance of winning while the other does not an so will likely fail..What does that tell you about how our enlightened citizens are making up their minds?
How many get information from former DJs like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and how many voted to reelect a man who got us into a war for reasons shown to be false?? It doesnt get much dumber than that..
And we have a party who has openly declared they want the incumbent to fail for political reasons regardless of the damage it does to the nation..
Revolt and protest all you want but as long as we have a group of fearful ignorant, people whose main interest is in spreading hate and fear...and as long as money controls our votes.. and as long as you have a large segment that cares about nothing and takes the lazy attitude that "they are all bad" .then nothing will change no matter who gets elected or how many revolutions we have..
Eight people with the apparent combined IQ of a ripe melon. Good Gawd, if this was the only threat the US had to worry about... Pretty fair chance they'd have blown themselves up before harming others anyhow. The Feds, while nobody's hero, are a force to be reckoned with, likely these clucks will be all militant about the food at the rest homes when they get out...
Hi Bill haven't seen you for a while.
I showed up at a Ducks Unlimited meeting at the invitation of a neighbor. I just moved into this small community in western Michigan. I had no idea that DU used lightning bolts and swastikas in their program HAHAHAHAHA
All of this is easy. We need one new rule....... If You don't vote you will be fined when you renew your drivers licence. We are one of the very few Countries who do not have that rule. We also make it very difficult to vote for people who are working. Voting should be done over three days, online and any government office...just like everyone else does.
If we did that the corruption would stop. Many would not be re-elected. Those who are, would have to stay to the center and represent the largest group of people, or they would not get elected.
There are a huge number of men in this Country who think that they can survive in the "country" with out a Government. What a hoot. They can survive for a week maybe. Then they will have to do business with the cities which they hate so much. All this chest beating for violence, threatening people online that they do not know.
Dirt poor people living on dirt roads with clean guns, supporting the wealthy who despise them, wow.
Ho HUM
The feds are worried about the militia when there are jihadist camps in this country training people to kill the infidels,us, and anyone else that does not agree with them???I understand these people can be intense but most of you have never been around any muslims..I would take the militia over the jihadists any day..I do not believe in having either one of these groups in the USA..When will the feds go after the jihadists??
2 years.. so much for a speedy trial.
What's a speedy trial?
As smart as they look I can't believe they got caught.
Did the gun laws change again? Are rifles required to be registered?