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Subscribe to RSSTwo American men previously barred from flights home from North Africa and subjected to extensive questioning were slated to fly back to their home in Portland, Ore. — with their attorney — on Monday, but one of them was notified over the weekend by U.S. officials that he wouldn't be allowed on the flight.
The two Libyan-born men, both U.S. citizens and long-time businessmen in Portland, were barred from earlier efforts to return home and questioned — one by officials in the United Kingdom and the other by FBI agents in Tunis. They are believed to be on the government’s secret no-fly list, but the FBI, which maintains the list, will neither confirm nor deny names on the list as a matter of policy.
US aid worker: US bars my return
What gives? Another American in no-fly limbo
After a one-month delay, Jamal Tarhuni — who had been delivering aid to Libyan medical facilities and refugee camps — was allowed to board a flight from Tunis on Monday. He was accompanied by his Portland attorney, Tom Nelson. They plan to transit through Paris and Amsterdam before flying to Portland, arriving on Tuesday morning.
But a second Portland man caught in a parallel security quagmire, Mustafa Elogbi, was told over the weekend that he would not be able to board the flight with Tarhuni and Nelson, who is providing legal assistance to both men.
“The U.S. government — we’re not even sure which agency — has put my family on this horrid emotional rollercoaster ride with no end in sight,” said Elogbi’s wife, Annie Petrossian, speaking from Portland. Petrossian says her husband’s high blood pressure is worsening because he has run out of medication. “Does anyone even care?”
Elogbi’s family and attorneys said the U.S. Embassy consul in Tunis, Michael Sweeney, had previously told them to go ahead with booking the Monday flight.
On Saturday, two days before travel, Elogbi received another missive from Sweeney saying: “The Embassy has been informed” that Elogbi must make alternative travel plans “no earlier than 24 hours after your original departure times” and according to a set of conditions that include notifying the embassy of the itinerary.
Elogbi had been in Libya to see relatives and visit Libyan refugees in the aftermath of the revolution that ousted long-time dictator Moammar Gadhafi. He tried to return home to Portland on Jan. 8, but was detained during a layover in London--at the behest of U.S. authorities, British officials told him. Elogbi was questioned at length and held in solitary confinement for two days before being sent back to Tunis, his point of departure.
Elogbi is now slated to fly home Feb. 19. His attorney will return to Tunis to accompany him.
“The United States government is acting outrageously,” said Nelson, in a written message sent from Tunis. “These actions expose the government's use of the no-fly list not as a counter-terrorism tool but, rather, as a tool to coerce, intimidate, humiliate, oppress, and punish innocent members of the Muslim community in Portland.”
The FBI office in Portland, which has an agent involved in this case, could not respond to reporter queries about the case -- whether there is a case against the men, whether there would be questioning after they returned, and whether they are on the no-fly list going forward.
"The U.S. Privacy Act, as well as a variety of other federal laws and guidelines, prevent the FBI from speaking directly to your questions," wrote Beth Ann Steele, media relations spokewoman at the field office. "We are not allowed to speak to whether we have an investigation open in any particular instance, nor are we permitted to speak about any particular person. These protections are in place to ensure that every American’s rights to privacy are guarded."
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Unrestricted power in the hands of imbeciles. Just about sums up what has happened since the Department of Homeland Security was founded.
I feel so safe. /s
The "no fly list" has given the government too much control. Those who trade freedom for safety will have neither
Dismantle the entire DHS multi-hundred-billion dollar boondoogle !!
Bankrupt us all in the name of "security".
Some security !!
.
Has Herbert Hoover been resurrected from the death?
A perfect example of what the FBI should NOT be. But it looks like paranoia and being a perfect are job requirements for the FBI is we look at Herberts track record from his time as top dog for the FBI
Our Founding Fathers were smart men. They foresaw a time would come when the central government would try to consolodate all power into thier hands.
The Constitution was written SPECIFICALLY to place limits on the powers of the government.
There is a candidate for President who stop the assault on your liberties.
Don't wait until the noose becomes too tight.
By then it's too late to struggle.
US1776 said:
Dismantle the entire DHS multi-hundred-billion dollar boondoogle !!
According to wikipedia, DHS's budget for 2011 was $98 billion. Haven't run across any figures for 2012 yet.
Speaker of the House John Boehner recently asked for his House Homeland Security Committee to have sole oversight of DHS. His complaint was that various members of DHS have been called to congressional hearings on specific issues and those hearings were somewhat repetitive with the same questions being asked by different people. So he's proposing that the House Homeland Security Committee, composed of 33 members, be allowed to have sole oversight of DHS; DHS would report only to this committee and if anyone had questions they'd come to this committee to ask them, and the committee would pass on answers from Homeland Security's officials.
cynical, I think you meant J. Edgar Hoover, former FBI Director.
In fairness to the FBI, there is information in this case we don't know. Various legalities are preventing the whole story from coming out. While I can't think of any legitimate reason for the FBI's actions, I'm not quite ready to pile hatred on them without knowing what they know.
Exactly, they are getting far too secretive. One should be able to determine if they are on a list that might prevent them from entering their country of citizenship before they are 3000 miles from it, trying to return home. Why weren't they flagged before leaving, I assume they flew.
And because the list is secret, we don't know if these guys are even on it, or if they are doing something the FBI doesn't approve of and using the secrecy for cover. It's too gd KGB for me.
And I will slam ther FBI for acting like they can't comment because of privacy of they very people, who in these cases, don't want the privacy.
And what if this guy turns out to be a front for a Portland terrorist cell? I'm not saying he is, but if the FBI were investigating him, they'd hardly want to blow their case in the public media.
The point is, we don't know. Wouldn't you feel like a boob if the guy really was a threat?
You're right though in that this is too KGB for us Americans. Now that the case is blown (assuming there ever was one), it's time for the FBI to move on. Show evidence the guy can't come home or get out of his way.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
AG99 said:
While I can't think of any legitimate reason for the FBI's actions, I'm not quite ready to pile hatred on them without knowing what they know.
Do a Google search on Mr Tarhuni's and Mr Elogbi's name. Turns out they went to the same church as one of the 911 terrorists and everyone who goes to that church has been under a cloud of suspicion since then.
Ah. Well, that explains the FBI's interest at least.
So why not just arrest and deport every other member of that mosque and their families? After all you can't be too safe...
You do not have to be fair to the FBI. It is their responsibility to prove that they have a right to do what they are doing. America's freedoms have been compromised by secrecy, the perfect setup for abuse.
I would only feel sorry if such people were falsely or accidentally singled out. But since such precautions (abuse) are taken many Americans are safer, right? Let's just say that it is the price of living peacefully with YOUR family and loved ones.
A good question would be, if the government did absolutely nothing would you be happier and feel safer? And if you say "yes", then please elaborate?
[sarcastic / anarchist responses to such a question are only petty and pathetic]
Chris:
There is reaction to 911 and there is overreaction. Reaction would be increasing airport security, warning people to be aware of other passengers who might be acting suspiciously, warning people to be aware of unattended packages and bags. Reaction would be identifying people who travel on business and for international aid workers--interview them, ascertain they are not a risk, and issue them 'frequent flier ID's', like a drivers license to fliers.
Overreaction is DHS's new Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST), which scans people from a distance of 15 feet away at airports looking for elevated blood pressure, sweating, heavy breathing and shifting eyes, and then having DHS and TSA people apprehend such people as suspected terrorists BEFORE they even commit a crime (and once the NDAA kicks in Feb 29, anyone suspected of terrorism who is not an American citizen faces mandatory detention until the war on terror is over. Anyone who is a citizen can be detained at the government's discretion. Any guesses to when the war on terror is going to be over?)
Overreaction is DHS and TSA planning on using portable DNA analyzers at the airports, requiring people to open their mouths for a DNA swab for analyzing before getting on a plane.
There is a fine line between safety and security, and apprehending people because the FAST system THINKS they might be about to commit a crime crosses that line. Think those 911 terrorists went through the airport sweating and looking shifty-eyed? No, that would draw attention, which they couldn't have. The majority of the people you'll see running through an airport sweating with eyes darting everywhere are regular fliers who are late and think they'll miss their flight!
I find it interesting that the FBI refuses to tell the accused and his lawyer what this is all about under the guise of protecting his privacy. It would be refreshing if we used the intent of the law and not the letter of the law and applied a little common sense.
Get a Clue
The FBI has more than likely told them something, but under the US Privacy act and other federal laws they can not speak of it to the public or media. Those laws are there to protect the privacy of Mr. Elogbi and all American citizens. For now they are just questioning him and nothing more. It is a mystery though as how the media got his and Mr. Tarhuni's names. Even divulging a person of interest's name by any law enforcement agency is a violation of the Privacy Act until the said "person of interest" is charged with a crime.
Even if overreacting is the price we have to pay... 99.9% of Americans feel safer because of it.
Love how OUR government has taken away almost all of MY FREEDOM so I can be safe.
What a pathetic group of idiots that try to run our country while they take bribes and cash from corporations while they destroy MY country.
I remember reading a quote from Benjamin Franklin that read Anyone who is willing to give up their liberty for more security, neither deserve liberty nor security. The DoHS is everything Benjamin Franklin was against and slowly begins to isolate the US from the rest of the world.
Posting out here will not help the issue. Contact to one's representatives is one thing WE can do.
I try contacting my representatives and they usually have some kind of logical conundrum that's very immature and ignorant to justify a whole different thing. On the level of folk-limericks. We need to contact them...with our vote.
That's what happens when we elect conservatives.
I once wrote Obama to explain how his Making Homes Affordable program didn't help those who could not stay in their homes. I had to relocate to another state to get a new job.
I received a reply touting all he was doing for America highlighting his Making Home Affordable plan. Do you get the impression that nobody is listening?
"We are not allowed to speak to whether we have an investigation open in any particular instance, nor are we permitted to speak about any particular person. These protections are in place to ensure that every American’s rights to privacy are guarded."
The FBI says they are concerned about this US Citizen's right to privacy but EVIDENTLY not his CIVIL rights!! The Department of Homeland Security is now on par with the Gestapo.
Cory Beaulieu just Bull Crap and Double talk from the FBI! Welcome to Quasi Nazism/Marxism, all DONE UP for your PSEUDO SAFETY!
WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE,YOU'RE ALL GETTING A ROYAL SCREW JOB in this country!There's going to come a time when you're not even going to be allowed to BREATH!
You go Gloria!! I like the enthusiasm. The United States military now has the power to indefinably detain any US citizen without a reason, all in the name of "the war on terrorism".
Wake up now!....you sound like the propagandist Joseph Goebbels....why don't you tell the truth about the recently signed NDAA??? Are you afraid that the facts make you look silly? Do you think that Al Qaeda can declare war on American, and have US citizens who are terrorists, yet you don't think we should be able to detain them in the same manner our US military has detained combatants and illegal combatants for 200+ years??
jack, you're right on par with my above comment on our representatives. Your logic is in the level of folk-limericks. Because we want our national freedom, suddenly we're against detaining al queda? WHY the hell can't we detain them and maintain our basic civil liberties? As the others said, WAKE the hell up.
Jack,
Do you understand that there are basic rights guaranteed by the constitution? Or do you agree with the President that the constitution is to "limiting" to his power?
I agree with Cory here.
The DHS(Department of Human Scum) is just the tip of our problems.
Our Congress/House of Reps are bought and paid for,our past presidents LIE to justify a war,our present president is so focused on fixing this economy that he has not paid attention to the alphabet agencies(CIA,FBI,NSA,DOD,DHS) and their constant erosion of the rights and freedoms granted to us by The Constitution.
Greece is rioting because of mismanagment of their country by their government.
When(not IF)will this happen in the USA?
I agree with the Occupy protests and protestors...our rights to petition our grievences to our government is not gone...just forgotten(by those that are supposed to serve us) Proof being the use of police to clear places where we gather to protest.
I am waiting on the day that riots like in Athens happen in Atlanta/DC/LA/Boston/Miami
I for one will be right out there with them.
Jack:
Do you think that Al Qaeda can declare war on American, and have US citizens who are terrorists, yet you don't think we should be able to detain them in the same manner our US military has detained combatants and illegal combatants for 200+ years?
The NDAA requires 'mandatory' indefinite detention without charge or trial until the war on terror is over for NON-US Citizens. The clause that everyone has a problem with, and what eventually ended up being changed, is the fact that detention for USC's is 'discretionary'. The wording was changed to appease President Obama after he declared he wouldn't sign it because he thought mandatory detention of USC's was unconstitutional.
But now you have the Enemy Expatriation Act, or HR3166/S1698, currently making its way up through Congress. It's going to give the US government the right to strip any USC, natural-born or naturalized, of their citizenship of they are caught engaging or advocating any act that runs counter to the interests of the US or her allies. Put this together with its brother bill the NDAA and you'll see the altered wording put in to appease President Obama is worth virtually nothing.
Jack: I don't have a problem with detaining terrorists.
I DO have a problem with what Homeland Security is deeming 'terrorists' nowadays; returning war vets, alternate media, animal rights activists, antitechnology extremists (those who don't allow electricity in their homes) and even, for Goddess;s sake, people who worship the AllFather Odin. I'm a pagan and as a member of the pagan community we are deeply concerned with this last one--seriously, when was the last time you heard of someone blowing up a building in the name iof the AllFather Odin?
And I DO have a problem with the indefinite detention without charge or trial. If our government thinks these people are a danger to us, then let us decide. Give them a trial, for our sakes. Let us, the US, look these people in the eye and determine for ourselves if they present a danger to us. Our constitution specifically says 'No person' shall be deprived of life or liberty without due process. It doesn't make a distinction between terrorist or citizen, non-citizen or citizen. It says every person. And terrorists are people, no matter what we may think of what they personally believe, they are still human.
The US government right now is like a parent witholding something from a child because 'it's bad for you'. I think we collectively as Americans are fully capapble of deciding on our own if something is 'bad' for us.
Homeland Screwity at its best
There is no good reason for the FBI to keep anything secret. They either have evidence or they dont, if not tipping your hand to the fact that you know who they are is a good way to never get any proof of wrongdoing. Patriot act is an ugly scar on american history.
They don't say who is on the list because they can add any name they wish that way and say it is secret.
Is there is. The US Privacy Act is one. And as the spokesperson said there are other federal laws that keep them from divulging information. Same goes for State and Local law enforcement departments as well.
Apparently they have not finished their investigation. Could be he is on some other list the government has. Until their investigation is completed will we know for sure.
He is a Libyan/American, and could have dual citizenship. When ever someone comes from a known hotspot, they always run into this kind of situation. Very unfortunate. That has become the norm after 9/11/2001.
Preventing an American citizen from returning home is no less criminal then throwing innocents into Gitmo.
or stripping people of their citizenship without due process of the law...because DC CHANGED THAT LAW.
I agree with Keith. The FBI will abuse this power. Abuse peoples rights then Use the privacy act to cover your ass.
Our wonderful Government at work for its citizens..
Good job-There is some reason that they drew suspicion-you complainers need to back your Government-there is a price to pay-to be free from suicidal bombers-you think?
You do not deserve liberty or freedom.
Go to China or North Korea, you belong with commies.
Yep. lets work with the system on this. Good job by law enforcement
The only way they can say that this is 'respecting his privacy' is to reveal all information to this man THEN HE DECIDES whether to reveal it. Otherwise it's just 'we aren't saying because we don't feel like it'.
I love it when government agents pretend to be acting to protect the privacy their victims.
Can't our elected representatives do something about this heavy handed government overreach? This sounds more like the SS than the USA!
William - I am sure that when a successful terrorist attack occurs again in the U.S. it will be ignoramuses like you who blame the US Gov't - the FBI, CIA, etc. for their failure to protect this country. You want to call FBI agents the "SS"....this shows just how paranoid and historically ignorant you are. Put on your tin foil hat and go back to the mother ship.
The FBI is NOT UNDER the Dept of Homeland Security, for the information of you morons who keep repeating this distortion. Also, you paranoid idiots who claim you have lost all your freedoms and liberties, please name a few of them that you have lost!! (Sorry....taking off your shoes at the airport does not count as a constitutionally protected right) There have been hundreds of arrests and scores of convictions of U.S. based terrorism subjects in the past 10 years, yet you undereducated armchair quarterbacks think the FBI should explain to you their particulars of any cases against these two?? Did you not read the article? These men have privacy and civil rights as well, and perhaps they don't want you know-nothings out there to know the details of the cases against them. What irony and hypocrisy many of the commenters here exhibit.
Finally, some common sense thinking!
I keep wondering what everyone would say if they had let them onboard and the plane was blown up? Then they would be after the FBI for letting them on the plane in the first place and it would not have mattered if they were U S Citizens! Can't have it both ways!
This is sick, how can the government prevent someone from flying home. If he's a terrorist GREAT, if the US government have evidence to prove it LET HIM COME BACK then when he walks off the plane arrest him and charge him with a crime.
It's innocent until proven guilty. Saying TERRORIST doesn't change that.
...and blowing up the plane before an investigation and finding of safety is the right way to go here??
Innocent until proven guilty factspleasee. It's a cornerstone of the country.
I have the perfect solution. Have flights for people who are on the "no-fly" list. They can still fly, just not with anyone who is considered a normal citizen.
Ha Ha
Abusive government ... acting more like King George III every day. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary ..."
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" If the government has a case, make it in a real court with a real judge. Otherwise, STFU.
I don't get this no-fly list at all. It doesn't matter that you are on no-fly list, you can still enter the country and you won't get arrested. If you are on no-fly list, you should be considered a terrorist and arrested, probed, tortured whatever, until you are proven innocent, then removed from the list. So, no-fly list is a list of potential terrorists determined by a computer who was programmed by underpaid programmer based on the criteria of bunch of morons. It is a joke that does not protect anyone. It was simply made so we all would hear these stories every once in a while and feel like our gov't is doing something, and like we (by proxy) have some control, while the real terrorist are doing what they're doing unchecked.
I think everyone should note that anyone from anywhere in the world can post on Newsvine which is fine but I take some of the inflammatory comments with a grain of salt because of that. Some postings may be made by people whose interest is in stirring up trouble and discontent within the US (e.g. Iran). All of the postings are valuable but as they say consider the source or at least the potential source.
That said the no-fly list may have had the best intentions but as usual with any bureaucracy they usually manage to screw it up.
None of us know WHY these two people were stopped and there could be good reasons (I don't think so). If thats the case then it's none of our business, it's a personal matter between the individuals and the US government.
There should be a CLEAR procedure to address the issue in a QUICK and timely manner (apparently there isn't). There should be a secure way the individual should be able to fly perhaps with simple extra security screening. This is a US citizen which they have flagged, are they trying to tell us they can't let him fly when they know who he is, can search him for the flight and monitor his trip. They are using the no-fly list as a fear tactic trying to hold it over thier heads, certainly not innocent until proven guilty as it should be.
Typical government abuse.
Some postings may be made by people whose interest is in stirring up trouble and discontent within the US (e.g. Iran). All of the postings are valuable but as they say consider the source or at least the potential source.
I am one of those people that are here with the intent to stir things up. I am an American however and I am trying to stir things up so more folks aren't subjected to illegal treatment by our government. Just because the FBI does it doesn't mean it is right.
Under our Constitution, as interpreted one has the right to travel. What happened to our Constitution? You cannot fly! Why? We won't tell you! What happened to due process, at it's minimum? Is this the Gestapo?
I'm curious why Elogbi's last name differs from his wife's last name. Did she keep her last name when they got married? Did he change his name after they got married? I doubt that authorities in London would've held this guy for two days for unpaid traffic tickets in Portland. Why the need to fly around with an attorney in tow? I thought those guys charged by the hour. I'd hate to see that legal bill, considering Nelson is flying back to Tunis to chaperone this guy on his flight back.
Hard to believe an American is saying this. "The U.S. Privacy Act, as well as a variety of other federal laws and guidelines, prevent the FBI from speaking directly to your questions," wrote Beth Ann Steele, media relations spokewoman at the field office. "We are not allowed to speak to whether we have an investigation open in any particular instance, nor are we permitted to speak about any particular person. These protections are in place to ensure that every American’s rights to privacy are guarded." So much privacy no knows why these two men received extra security. What is next? We need to ensure every member of congress and senate is placed on the no fly list, ensuring they feel the pain of abused travelers, finally fixing this mess.