Eugene, good point.

His family have been defending him all along saying they're dissapointed with the justice system because they made him a "person of interest" so he got desperate and acted out.

That's nonsense!

I'd say the biggest problem with the American justice system is that it's obsessed with "procedure" so instead of declaring someone a POI and keeping a tight lid on them the police instead let the person go if the evidence against the suspect is not perfect.

It's all about how the evidence is gathered and obtained instead of using common sense with whatever evidence is at hand. The Bill Of Rights got it wrong by putting all the emphasis on procedure.

I'd say the biggest problem with the American justice system is that it's obsessed with "procedure" so instead of declaring someone a POI and keeping a tight lid on them the police instead let the person go if the evidence against the suspect is not perfect.

Because our system is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. It's easy to say we should be "hard on crime" until you're the one the police are looking at, and if you think it's just guilty people that have to worry then you've really been living under a rock.

Esam you are so wrong. A quarter of the time a POI turns out not to be the bad guy. That "procedure" you decry is to prevent innocent people from going to jail for crimes they did not commit. The Bill of Rights is just fine.

If you want to make the system better, legalize minor drugs, thus freeing up police, prosecutors, and jails to focus more resources on real criminals. I'm not a pro-pot person, but I see the logic in legalizing and taxing it and using those billions spent on enforcement on other areas.

The CPS agents overseeing this case should be brought to justice for letting this happen. Just unthinkable that they would allow visitation to a murder suspect. Like in the Joe Paterno case, there's doing what is legal and doing what is right. (Joe should have continued to report the child abuse, if the campus police were going to cover it up/sweep it under a rug as they most certainly did) I have no sympathy in me for a CPS system that wants to play God with people's lives and then cannot even be bothered to do the right thing when it is time to do so.

@Eugene Sax - yeah, this guy looks worse day by day. But hindsight is 20/20. How are you supposed to use "common sense" on a Monday if you don't learn that the person is a complete dirt bag until Saturday?

@James2 -- the judge ordered the supervised visitation. CPS doesn't get to say whether visitation happens or not. They can only recommend things to the judge who makes the final decision. Your criticism of CPS is misplaced.

It's easy for everyone to sit back and say "shoulda, woulda, coulda" once all facts are known. But at the time something is happening, people have to make do with the facts at hand and with the laws of their particular location. The fact is, although this guy was suspected of killing his wife, he hadn't been charged. And until he was charged, in this location, there was little anyone could do except allow supervised visitation, which was what was ordered. If you're going to blame anyone, you could blame investigators who couldn't find enough solid evidence to charge the guy before all this happened. But I suspect they too were doing the best they could. So let's place the blame where it belongs on Powell, who was clever enough to cover his tracks extremely well, and self-centered enough to kill a wife and 2 sons that loved him. The world seems better off without him, but it's tragic that he took those boys with him.

James2,

The CPS caseworker was there to supervise the visit, but he slammed the door in her face. He was larger than her and stronger than her. She did her best to get backup assistance but he had everything prepared in advance and there was no time. Don't lay any guilt trip on that poor woman, as she feels bad enough already.

LizzieFromBoston - thank you for your sane, rational comments! It's beyond me why so many posters think that they could have predicted what was going to happen and point a finger of blame at everyone involved, when in reality, hindsight is 20/20.

Those of you who want to blame the authorities for endeavoring to collect solid evidence before charging Powell so that they could be confident he would actually being found guilty of his crimes...I suppose that you would prefer they he be charged before enough solid evidence was available, thereby allowing a repeat of the Casey Anthony trial?

I agree. Mindreading 101 is not being offered in our schools. How was anyone to know that he was more of a monster than had been first thought.

My problem is that we are not learning from our mistakes. Just this week in Pennsylvania, the judge ordered visitation for grandfather Sandusky to his grandchildren, three of whom have said he molested them. I'm not sure if these three were included in the visitation order. However, why should he stop if the kids are available to him? Don't say supervised visitation, either, we've already seen what has happened to the Powells. We must learn from our mistakes, and not repeat them.

We aren't learning fast enough. I'm all for laws that protect the innocent, but that door swings both ways.

It not a good thing to blame the authorities every time someone gets away with a crime, and even worse to blame the US Constitution and the array of freedoms and procedural rights that are guaranteed under it. And the worse the crime, the worse the knee jerk, myopic reaction is likely to be from a total lack of appreciation of our American values. Our hearts go out to the victims and survivors of the heinous acts of Josh Powell, to the whole community, really, but I'm not ready to throw the Constitution into the fire because of it.

In some countries, it is exactly as the 'tough-on-crime' advocates would want it. People are rounded up with no evidence, held for indefinite amounts of time without charges, and jailed for years on end because of what some would call "common sense." In America, however, our criminal justice system is based protecting the innocent. To some it seems crass that we designed a system that places such a heavy burden of proof on the government that we actually know ahead of time that many guilty people will remain free, many will escape prosecution, all because we love and cherish freedom so much, we are willing to pay that price in order to prevent the innocent from wrongful prosecution. I am one of those that cherishes our system of government because I love freedom, and I believe that freedom is the essence of America. Thank goodness we don't have that "common sense" that they have in Syria, in Saudi Arabia, and in China, where political prisoners are a dime a dozen.

Eugene Saxe and Esam, I don't know what countries you live in, but I don't like your idea of common sense in government. There was a long history of such common sense in England, and it was called the Star Chamber. It made Americans recoil and led to a system of government in America based on freedom, the presumption of innocence, the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and generally respect for the citizenry. What you call common sense smack of a police state. For almost a quarter of a millennium, America has been able to fend off the kind reactionary philosophy that would spell a loss of those deeply beloved American values. I hope we Americans continue to resist those who would cast them aside.

I wish you people would realize that no one can foretell the future. They tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and it failed, and legally they couldn't really do anything to say no (Common Sense isn't a word in law). Is it a tragedy? Yes. But stop thinking that all these expansive measures could have been taken and it all could have been avoided. Terrible freaking things happen on a daily basis, and we can't do anything to stop them, we can only recover from them and rebuild from them.

The most you can do is try and create a bunch of new laws to satisfy your collective egos, which won't work, and will in turn likely hurt innocent people. I would highly suggest everyone just grow up, rather than living in a fantasy land where every modern tragedy could be prevented. They made a movie about that. It was called Minority Report. Not a very good future, either.

I agree. It appears that common sense is not required to work in cps or family court.

"SHAM" poor use of a word to describe a situation such as this. Set-up ... maybe!

AND ... it could have been so easy for this self centered mad man to have harmed so many other innocent people ... that I think it's rather trite to engage in finger pointing & banishing around the "mob ... rope ... and ... tree ... approach to these unfortunate occurrences ...............

lolfattynerdswhoknew - C McCoy

Yeah he is innocent until proven guilty but it didn't take a slide rule to know this guy was more than a POI, until he was exonerated, and we all know he wasn't going to be, he should not have had home visits with the boys. There was very little ambiguity in this case.

All it takes is one nut-bag like this to change the way the system works and I feel sorry for the people who in the future, are innocent and won’t be able to visit with their children.

A real shame this all is.

For crying out loud, Mr. Powell's wife had dissappeared and her own children were saying that "Mommy was in the trunk". Here's an excerpt from a newspaper report:

"The lawyer for Susan Powell's parents, Chuck and Judy Cox, told the Associated Press the children had started talking to their grandparents about things they remembered from the night in 2009 when their mother vanished.

"They were beginning to verbalize more," said attorney Steve Downing, whose clients had custody of the children. "The oldest boy talked about that they went camping and that Mommy was in the trunk. Mom and Dad got out of the car and Mom disappeared."

Now, using statistics it turns out that most spouses who dissapear happened to have been murdered by their husband or wives.

Of course, you're innocent until proven guilty but the police can't be so naive they're going to simply discard information and probabilities as the ones I gave above.

I'm not saying Mr. Powell should have been kept in jail but the least the police or CPS could have done under the circumstances was to have Mr. Powell come to them if he wanted to see the children.

Another thing to keep in mind is that his children did not want to go see Mr. Powell the day he blew up the house but they were forced to.

The case was soaking in circumstancial evidence and it wouldn't hurt if they inconvenienced Mr. Powell for a period of time. When the Bill of Rights mentions "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted", it was still legal to own and flog slaves.

In other words, the BoR allowed slave owners to punish their slaves by flogging but anything beyond that was considered "cruel and unusual".

I'm not saying that Mr. Powell should have been flogged but, like I said, some common sense should have been used to keep his children safe from harm.

Just this week in Pennsylvania, the judge ordered visitation for grandfather Sandusky to his grandchildren, three of whom have said he molested them.

That's not exactly true. Sandusky's bail was modified to allow him to visit his grandchildren (except for the 3 that there are allegations with). HOWEVER, he wasn't granted visitation rights. In other words, IF their parents allow him to visit them (except for the three he is barred from seeing), then he can see them; however, the parents aren't required to allow him to see them. This was part of a bail modification NOT a civil cause about visitation.

On this story, it is very sad that Powell did this. I just don't get it, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I'm not saying Mr. Powell should have been kept in jail but the least the police or CPS could have done under the circumstances was to have Mr. Powell come to them if he wanted to see the children.

That's not up to them - that's up to the judge that orders supervised visits. Usually the order is written about who and where the supervised visits are to take place.

Yes, the judge should've ordered visits to take place at social services; but s/he didn't - unfortunately, hind sight is 20/20. That said, the ONLY person to blame for this is Powell himself.

You're absolutely right, J.Scott, this is truly a shame. I too believe this guy was guilty of murdering his wife. However, I must admit to my own fallibility. Should the nutball have lived to go to trial, what would we be saying if we found out that it was his crazy father who killed his daughter-in-law (don't forget, he had motive and opportunity), and this guy had suffered media scrutiny and public outcry and the loss of visitation with his children, and was then found to be innocent. It happens, you know. WAY more than it should.

I'll tell you what we'd be saying: "A real shame this all is." Our justice system is imperfect - but we must give it an opportunity to work. There is no blame to lay at the feet of the court which ordered this visit or the social worker who was unable to stop the insanity. But changes DO need to be made. Perhaps we will see more of a trend toward supervised visits being held at the Dept of Social Services, to ensure both the safety of the children involved and that no innocent parents are unable to visit their children.

James2fromSeattle - There is NO Joe Paterno case. There is the Jerry Sandusky case. And Summer - there are no allegations that he molested 3 of his grandchildren. Those 3 are part of a custody dispute between Sandusky's son and daughter-in-law. The judge deferred a ruling on those three to the judge who is trying the custody case. That is different than the judge saying he can't see them because of what he is accused of.

wryview: According to what I've heard (and I could easily be wrong) there is a custody dispute and the mother is accusing Sandusky of molesting the three children, which is why the judge in bail modification went along with the ruling of the judge involved in the custody case. . IDK, I could be wrong on that easily enough.

Basically, all I was saying is the judge that said Sandusky could see his grandchildren actually wasn't making a ruling on visitation rights. He was making a ruling on bail modification. Sandusky can see his grandchildren, except for the three mentioned before, IF the parents of the children agree to it. Sandusky wasn't awarded visitation rights.

The police found new evidence of his involvement - blood on a comforter. That is not evidence. That is POSSIBLE evidence. Police have been getting new tips since the deaths. What good are the tips after the fact? The house was just a sham for the benefit of visitation? He needed a place to live and he had pictures of his family and he wanted to see his kids. How is that a sham?

Oh yeah we get it. The suspect is dead and the cops know he isn't able to defend himself so they can make all the derogatory remarks they want. Isn't it great to be an armchair quarterback on Monday morning?

I dont think you have to be psychic to make assumptions about whats probable.

He was their main suspect in the murder/disappearnce of his wife.

If we ASSUME he's capable of killing his wife, we must ASSUME he's capable of killing his kids.

The fact is, we didnt assume enough and err on the side of caution with regards to those two kids.

And the reason for that is, we valued the prime suspects rights...over the safety of those children.

THATS REALITY. and it's a reality most of you feel 100% comfortable living with.

I simply dont, I think children should be thought of first - before a prime suspects rights are considered.

In the end, if he was innocent and proven to be so - all he would have lost was time.

In the end, if he was guilty and proven to be so - all we would have done was save those children.

maybe we cant save every kid...but I dont see why that means we shouldnt at least try.

The Thinker "The house was just a sham for the benefit of visitation? He needed a place to live and he had pictures of his family and he wanted to see his kids. How is that a sham?"

time to change that moniker.

did you read in the article the part about where the neighbors said he was never there, at all?

that makes it a "sham" residence.

Last time the sandusky story came out it never said the kids were slashed with a hatchet did it? Oh and Jessica is right for people who think she's an idiot. I have a sham house (Not to kill anyone with) because I can't bring myself to sell it. It holds all the memories me and my wife had. It's hard to get rid of that house but I never liked it.

How many of us have family members we are concerned about, with mental health issues.

We would never think they could be capable of anything like this. And yet here we are.

Just a question to put out there.

What responsibilites do WE have?

C McCoy

Esam you are so wrong. A quarter of the time a POI turns out not to be the bad guy. That "procedure" you decry is to prevent innocent people from going to jail for crimes they did not commit. The Bill of Rights is just fine.

If you want to make the system better, legalize minor drugs, thus freeing up police, prosecutors, and jails to focus more resources on real criminals. I'm not a pro-pot person, but I see the logic in legalizing and taxing it and using those billions spent on enforcement on other areas.

C McCoy....i am going off topic for a second, because i think this is an important issue. You are very correct in you thoughts of legalizing minor drugs to free up police resouces. Jails should be for criminals. People who get high in their own dwellings are not criminals. The reason i bring this up is your statement "I'm not a pro-pot person". It is clear that you feel that you have to defend you claim, by claiming you are not a "pro pot person" as if that is a bad thing to be. I am a pro-pot person. I am proud to be, because there is absolutely no reason that marijuana should be illegal. However, people have been "programmed" to think that this drug is a bad thing...that one must defend their claim and to distance themselves from the actual drug.

Just the other day, Bill O'Reilly had a guest on his "All Spin Zone" show, (about Whitney Houston) and here was a guy talking about how the "medication" was a problem,...but Bill wouldnt have it....he kept asking (cutting his guest off) more questions, trying to word it that "illegal drugs" and not "legal drugs" (medication) were the problem.

There is only one reason that marijuana is bad.....and that is because the government says so. If you were to take away all the years of being fed all this bullsh*t that marijuana is dangerous....you would understand that it is merely a plant. It is natural plant with medicinal values. It is a plant with recreational values. Why is it that i can come home and have a drink to loosen up, but i cant come home and smoke a marijuana cigarette to loosen up? Why do i have to take Advil or Tylenol for my headache when marijuana works much faster and better than these synthetic drugs?

I just wanted to point out that how you feel is ok, and you dont need to defend if you are a "pro pot-person" or not. It is obvious that the system is not to allow personal freedoms and that these drugs and the "war on drugs is completely wrong....however it is in the politicians best interest to keep it this way, so we have been fed that drugs are so evil that to defend the drug....we are still obliged to distance ourselves from it, rather than just sticking up for our basic rights and principles!

And to get back to the article....this guy would have gotten to his kids at one point in time or another....sometimes you just cant control a situation. It is sad, but is is what it is! I have two daughters and cannot understand how anyone could hurt a child, especially your own. I dont think that anything could have really been prevented. I wish he failed, and that the kids were able to get out,....but i really dont think this could have been prevented.

I wish you people would realize that no one can foretell the future. They tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and it failed, and legally they couldn't really do anything to say no (Common Sense isn't a word in law). Is it a tragedy? Yes. But stop thinking that all these expansive measures could have been taken and it all could have been avoided. Terrible freaking things happen on a daily basis, and we can't do anything to stop them

Does anyone remember that the pictures on Powell's computer that caused concern and caused the decision for his further evaluation were legally available for the attorneys in the custody decision? The attorney for the Cox family was never even informed he had the right to view this evidence until after the boys were killed.

Yes, terrible things happen, but something went wrong here, and I am pretty sure that if the attorney had seen those images, those boys would have had more protection from that point on.

I agree he would have found some other way to get to his kids, and probably taken more people with him.

The 2 little boys come in the house and that pos takes them to the back room and hits them with a hatchet..OMG, that gives me chills!!!

Since Powell was the primary suspect in the murder/disappearance of his wife, I wonder why investigators and social workers had not figured out that his house was just a sham set up for his kids' visits. None of them lived there. Talking to the older boy probably could have confirmed that, as might asking the kids to show the social worker where their clothes were, and other easy questions. If his sham house had been given any scrutiny at all, I bet it would become obvious that it was not the full time residence of these people.

@Jessica,

So.....I'm on business trips a lot and before that deployed with the military....my house sits vacant A LOT, so that makes it a sham residence...hmmm, funny description you have there. Not trying to defend the guy just saying that a house not lived in very much does not in itself make it a sham residence.

If Josh Powell wanted to blame CPS for his problems he would have forced the social worker inside the house and she also would have been killed. He only wanted to get rid of ALL his problems. Cowards way out.

Also there the cops go again. Assuming the kids were killed with a hatchet. They were in a blast. Flying objects and all. More people are killed in a tornado by flying debris. What gives.

Dano- That does not make any sense to kill your kids before you kill your kids. WHY!!!!!!!!!!!

Here. Can you speak this?

Maybe you should read up on ALL the events in this case before you start feeling sorry for this POS. Not only was he a POI in the case (regardless of what proof you think they don't have) but they DID find proof of child pornography in the home where those boys were staying. They removed them from that home for their own well being. They've been speculating about Powell's involvement in his wife's disappearance for years and the boys have lived with him and their grandfather for the majority of that time. If your theory were correct they would not have spent one moment with their dad while they investigated.

You MISSED a big detail here...

BikeBoy-4484306

If Josh Powell wanted to blame CPS for his problems he would have forced the social worker inside the house and she also would have been killed. He only wanted to get rid of ALL his problems. Cowards way out.

Also there the cops go again. Assuming the kids were killed with a hatchet. They were in a blast. Flying objects and all. More people are killed in a tornado by flying debris. What gives.

... And you got your degree in forensic science from what university again??? Yeah, That's what I thought. It is naive to assume they did more than just see any wound and assume it was from the BLOODY hatchet. Investigators determine murder weapons by thoroughly examining wounds and making deductions based on what was at the scene.

But I am sure you are right and they are all just too dumb to consider flying debris when going through the house that just exploded

Where did you get your info from. I read that article. Makes common sense to me. But everyone that is in the know is always right. If the cops say they were killed by a hatchet then I guess you are right. My uncle was killed by a 44 mag to the mouth sitting in his truck. After shooting himself he threw the gun on a roof. The police declared suicide. The Police pulled a body out of the river that had been in the river for days. Police declared suicide because there was a knife in the middle of his back. All I am saying is don't believe everything you read. I don't assume anything. That is what is wrong with this world. Everyone assumes everything is good. It is NOT. I am not anything as far as anything goes. Just giving my opinion. Take it or leave it. Don't really care.

Bikeboy - That does not make any sense to kill your kids before you kill your kids. WHY!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the comments on another article about this case was either was speculating or had read a more thorough rehashing of the crime. That person stated that the hatchet wounds may have been inflicted to cause spinal cord injuries so that the boys could not escape the fire.

I spend a lot of time reading the news on MSNBC, CNN and Fox so I can get different perspectives on all issues but I have to say you comment about God is over the top and I am offended by it. It has nothing to do what news agency I saw it on but in my opinion it was uncalled for. I couldn’t agree more that this act was pure evil and I don’t understand why God would let this happen in the first place. Hopefully everyone reading this story is as repulsed by the actions of this man and what he did to his children as I am but I will never turn my back on God. Hopefully your comments were made out of frustration. I know there will be many of you that will strongly disagree with my opinion, who am I to tell you what to believe but I had to say what I felt was right.

This guy, Powell, was a real hard core criminal before he even killed his family.

All the information coming out now is never ending shocking---that is a Father?

How could the Courts allow Visitation Rights to this creep. They must have known more about him since the investigation began for Susan Powell---

How did the elder Cox grandparents tolerate Susan's husband? For the kids sake? What was their relationship with him.

We as a family would have shoved him out the door; never to return to our residence. We've done it before, and this father was just a unwelcome visitor.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call call him God?

Hopefully a special place in hell was reserved for that monster. The world is a better place without him.

For the few of you talking about God and how could he "let" this happen - I am not a religious person, but did it ever occur to any of you that we were put on this earth to act of our own free will? We are to interact with each other and treat each other the way we would want to be treated. For those who commit cruel acts toward another person, we, as a society, have set up a court system to punish them. The fact that atrocious acts are committed each day around the world does not prove or disprove the existance of God.

lolfattynerdswhoknew

Dude, you do know about free will, right. This is why God does not choose to get involved. He is letting us decide for ourselves.

If you are truly Christian he should be forgiven in your eyes and how the hell do any of you know what really happened? Because our wonderful media and justice system has post-mortem convicted him? Judge not for you are not all knowing fools...Please stop convicting people from your couch..

I"M so disappointed about POLICE .....now they come up with all kind of theory and assumptions they spend money on buying the plots in the cemetery just to prove ....WHAT... ..They should have spent that money to find the killer for those sweet little Innocent boys .While the killer is and was ,right there in front of them .....In their own hands....IGNORANCE LAZINESS.just to put more salt on the wound.... POLICE !! just lock your self in the office and keep your mouth and acction shutt,I would file a big lawsut if I was in parents shoes ..... .poor grandparents and parents of Susan.Why in the name of God they were so passive about this case ...Knowing that so much was involved ....Powell father ,himself ,I say it's all their fault ......LIke some comment above we do not even know how much Josh was involved in Susan disaperance or death...all because brainless POLICE ShAME on them....

Susan Powell disappeared in Utah. Josh Powel had the comforter in a storage locker in another town from where he had lived in Washington.

Why would anyone who committed a crime keep a blood stained comforter in the first place? Did this represent some kind of trophy to him, or did he figure that he was so much smarter than the police that it would never be discovered? Why not burn it and destroy evidence?

He needed the comforter for his next cold weather camping trip.

I agree with Karen, the police are just now piecing together information and just now found this comforter? I don't care if it was found in another town, they should have been able to find that out before, and maybe these little boys would be alive. It just sounds like shoddy police work to me.

Karen and Sheila - perhaps there was insufficient evidence to get a search warrant for the storage unit, until after he blew up his house. Since you are not privy to the internal investigation, your second guessing of the police work doesn't really make any sense.

Apparently he had just put the comforter in storage, because he knew he wouldn't need it on his next trip.

They "should have been able to"? What kind of hind-sighted nonsense is that? Who's to say what they should or shouldn't have been able to do. What happened, happened. They were working other angles, hadn't gotten that lead yet... who knows? But for you to sit in the comfort of your own home or office and cast judgement like what they should or should not have been able to do with as little information as is available to us about what they did do, what information they had available to them before now, and/or why they are just finding new information now is simply irresponsible.

The only one to blame in this case -- the ONLY one -- is Josh Powell. Everyone else was undoubtedly doing all that they could under the circumstances and evidence they had at the time. Josh Powell was the repugnant criminal who committed these crimes -- no one made him do it. He is the guilty party. Do not lose sight of that in your rush to find others to blame because you feel there needs to be someone living that can held responsible. If someone else is responsible, then maybe you can convince yourself this and other such crimes can be reasonably prevented from happening. The the reality is, we cannot always protect everyone as long as there are psychos bent on destruction out there. It is an uncertain world. It is scary. But blaming people who were unable to prevent the acts of this particular criminal won't change that.

Because you need a search warrant and probable cause to be determined by a judge to get one. You have no proof that they were aware of the storage unit's existence. Much is available when you kill yourself and others NOT available beforehand.

Much of what many want to be seen done would be much easier if you could get rid of the constitution.
until that time those involved in the investigation must work within those guidelines.

Supervised visits in some states are conducted at a neutral site, usually with a play area. This is, however, uncommon. Most supervised visits take place at the parent/grandparent's home. You must live in a state where visits are conducted at a neutral site--but don't generalize to other states.

So then he would have just showed up will guns and killed everyone in the office or neutral site. There are not enough cops to have one at every visit every time.

Neutral sites are the way to go, especially when the visiting parent is known or suspected to be violent. The visitors go through security screening by police (metal detector, frisking, searches.) The social worker picks up the children from the foster parents and delivers to the visit center, so the visiting parents do not know who the foster parents are or where they live.

As for the landlord who rented the house to this guy so he could burn it, shame on him for not doing background checks. It was well publicized that this guy was suspected of murder. The landlord's insurance should refuse to pay the claim on the house.

What? He should refuse to rent a house to someone not even charged with a crime (the background check would have come thru clear, btw, it doesn't tap into TMZ)? Why would you even try to make that a point? What's that have to do with anything? How in the world could the insurance company possibly justify refusing to pay? No part of your comment made sense.

SAddened >>>are part of the police >>>>? why you think tey were ignoramt about this whole situation

WE have the right to judge them, the get pay from our hard working money .They have done nothing in this case to protect those children ,Police had mounted evidence to proceed the case ,they just sat on their butts DONE NOTHING ,for THREE YEARS...? With two suspects in their hands ....? They had to wait for children to grow up to tell them what hap pend .......All I can say STUUPId lazy ass, POLICE ....FIRED them all Just Lock your self's in the office and SHUT UP......THOSE unprotected CHILDREN are YOUR FAULT.MY prayer for the GRANDPARENTS you should be exempt from taxes from now on.....

It sounds like you need to go higher up than the police. Take pictures of your son's injuries. Record him saying it was his father. Perhaps you can take it to CPS

Have you considered catching him on tape? If you decide to do that be VERY sure that he won't find the recording device,but some recording devices are so small now that you could probably catch him and then take the tape to the police, your local news, or whoever you need to.

There is a web site called dailystrength.org which has at least 100 professionally moderated support groups, for just about any issue one could imagine, and I'm sure that they have one for domestic violence.You might try them.They have a lot of people.

Or call the National Domestic Violence hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)With that line I've heard that sometimes you have to try several times to get someone who gets the seriousness of a situation and who treats you with respect, but keep trying. Good luck.

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I wish I could personally do something to help you. The best I can offer is that there is a community of people who support each other daily on a website called "lovefraud." They have each dealt with a narcissistic or sociopathic ex or family member (which it sounds like your ex may be--he lies so easily and is charming), and they have a LOT of experience. Many of them have great ideas when it comes to legal stuff--they've all seen it before themselves, including custody issues!

Take pictures of your sons injuries. Write down everything you have experienced. Take it to the Sacramento Bee. You'd be surprised how quickly the police will act once this reaches the papers. If the paper won't print your story, try every news station. If that doesn't work, then find a local church and see if they will help you.

Don't give up. Keep trying. I hope for the best for you and your boy.

If your son is telling you that his father is hurting him, and this has happened more than once or twice, then you have grounds to take the father back to court for another hearing on the matter of joint custody and visitation rights, as well as the accounts of abuse by your son. If he is that articulate with you, then he can be that articulate with a court appointed psychologist who can help him express himself without having to appear in court to face his father, as that would be entirely too traumatizing. Of course, this approach would require you to hire a competent Family Law attorney who specializes in child custody cases and domestic violence. If I were you and I was dealing with this sort of dilemma, I would take all legal recourse possible to fight for the health, safety and well-being of my child. You can also petition the court for sole custody, and you can petition for the right to relocate and have the court place a Protective Order in full force and effect for a period of time that is renewable if your ex-husband continues the "bullying" he's demonstrated thus far. You cannot fight the system as an individual. You need competent legal counsel who can get you in front of the right people and who can fight for both you and your son. Many prayers for you and your son tonight.

To take the opposite side, many women also lie and make up heinous accusations about their husbands in attempts to get them arrested, and steal the children criminally. Your statements should be easily provable with evidence that goes farther than he said, she said.

Vy- Everyone has given you great advice and we're listening. You found the strength to reach out to WEAVE before so grab a hold of that earlier experience and use it. Do you have any family or friends who also know what's going? If so ask them if they'd be willing to document what they've witnessed to.

I don't know if there's a program like this in Sacramento, but here in WI, we have something called Judicare, which helps low-income and other eligible people with civil legal problems. If you're accepted you can consult with an attorney, and he'll present it to Judicare. If they approve the case the attorney will represent you and Judicare will pay him. You do have to do a lot of the paper work and research yourself, but they provide all the info you would need and are there to walk you through it.

I really hope there is a program like that for you in Sacramento.

Never give up. Never surrender-paraphrased from Winston Churchill

I live in Sacramento, which is why I questioned her rationale. It's very progressive here, and that claim that just because she may be an illegal and he is white, so he is being given special treatment holds no water. California has a very large Hispanic population, and discrimination that may have been common decades ago, has largely died away.

There are a great many resources in Sacramento to aid women in her position, if it is legitimate. But the truth needs to bear out, and not just a case of a wife(or husband) trying to kidnap the children, which is how most of these cases actually turn out to be.

If your children are injured or traumatized, a hospital emergency room will help you. Especially if it is a children's hospital. In addition to calling the police, the hospital will have social workers there to help and guide you and the children. I found some links to hospitals in your area but I truly hope that you can find other resources to help before your children need medical attention.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/children/

http://www.checksutterfirst.org/children/

http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/en/Hospitals/Locations/NorthernCalifornia.aspx

Get help anywhere you can for the sake of your children. My Prayers and best wishes to you.

A hospital emergency room is SUPPOSED to help and I hope that the ones in Sacramento do.But this woman states that until now law enforcement have chosen to believe everything the husband says and not take anything that she says into consideration.She also states that her husband was able to hire the mediator of his choice and get everything that he wanted with custody of the child.

ER physicians and nurses are mandated reporters for suspected child abuse, but the truth is that parents who know someone or who look like they can afford a good attorney rarely get reported if they can come up with any kind of alibi at all.This husband sounds as though he's a very slick talker and is a crony of the county sheriff, so if Vy goes to the emergency room in another case where it's her word against his I'm afraid that she may not get any further than she already has.

I personally hope that she hides a nanny cam and nails him, and puts him on YouTube.

just shoot him, make it look like self defense

Zewt:

While it is true that some women lie and make up stories regarding their spouses, to say:

I live in Sacramento, which is why I questioned her rationale. It's very progressive here, and that claim that just because she may be an illegal and he is white, so he is being given special treatment holds no water. California has a very large Hispanic population, and discrimination that may have been common decades ago, has largely died away.

that is just crazy. You are implying that because California is so progressive and has such a large Hispanic population that much of the past discrimination has died away. NO IT HASN'T!!! I was born and raised in California. Discrimination is still alive and well and that is a fact. If California was so progressive, why was my mom (African American) not able to adopt a baby girl (Filipino) that she had in foster care since she was days old. She cared for the baby properly and went above and beyond treating her as her own. The baby's mother loved the care my mom was giving her daughter and told her and the case worker that she would love for my mother to adopt her daughter. The baby's grandmother wanted nothing to do with the child. Once the case worker saw that my mom was African American, she did everything in her power to keep her from adopting the child. She convinced the grandmother that my mom was not providing a good home for her, she removed the child from my mom's care without going through the proper procedures to do so, and she used various tactics on the child's mother to have her go against her initial feelings about my mother. Once all these acts were reported (my mother is the type to use the system as it is meant to be used to air grievences) nothing was done regarding the child or the case worker. This was not the only instance of such acts against my mother adopting, just the most involved one (and we are talking about the county keeping up with mess that my mom went through-the case worker worked for the county and my mom did foster care through the county). California may be diverse and may welcome many from different backgrounds but discrimination is still very much around and acted upon. Before people get started: my mom is an educated woman (Master's degree), at the time she worked in education and was making almost 6 figures, she owned her home and had the resources to adopt children, she had been in foster care for over a year and never had any issues or complaints, my mom had bonded with the baby and had welcomed her as her own daughter (as did the rest of my family), she has never been in any kind of trouble with the law; no drugs, no alcohol, nothing, and my mother is a success as a mother with three children of her own.

I do not find it far fetched that Vy is not being believed by the local authorities or that the husband is being favored. Vy- don't let what has happened deter you from getting the help you and your child need. There is a program or someone who is willing to help you. You may not see the light at the end of the tunnel, but it is there.....don't give up.

I once knew someone in a similar situation. It was a lot of years ago when there were fewer resources available than today, though. In frustration with the legal system, she finally took her child and moved to Canada where the legal system could not reach her. That was then, this is now. Now this may not be a good answer or even a possible solution. Certainly try other means before considering it. Best wishes and good luck!

Zewt,

Just because you live in the Sacramento area and it is progressive does not mean that the courts or judges are progressive. Unless you have had experience with the family court, you really wouldn't know.

I live in the same area and have found judges in family court to be some of the most clueless and corrupt people on the face of the earth. They often rule in favor of the attorney they play golf with, even in cases of extreme abuse.

I believe everything Vy says.

@ kcstrawberryblonde and Vy -

Medical records are permanent and with today's "paperless" systems, there is little chance of anything getting lost in the shuffle including any photographs taken which would be scanned into the patient's computerized records. Records can have an addendum added but they cannot be deleted or changed once the note is entered. ED RN's and MD's are trained to look for signs of abuse from a physical as well as verbal and non-verbal stance. Since professionals would obviously be more familiar with kid's issues at a children's facility rather than a general ED, this would be the best case scenario. Links for those facilities were provided although if Vy could not get to one of these, any hospital ED would work. Once all of this is in the works, cops and courts would be very hard-pressed to ignore any abuse and most hospital social workers are pretty savvy and should be able to guide Vy very well through the system to help her and her child.

Have to admit, though...Nannycam sounds like a sweet revenge and it may even save Vy's life if he is threatening her life.

...I have a crazy husband whose family told me earlier in our marriage that he is bi-polar.

If that was the case, why are they not backing up your story?

In the 6 weeks we have been back that my child 3 year old have been to his dad unsupervised, he has come back with 4 injuries which he says dad did.

Then file for a restraining order and get those statements documented. Telling only you does little good. With hospitals and other medical facilities able to document these injuries, why are you having such an issue?

Or course we are seeing one side of the argument here. I've seen too many instances of both parents using kids for their own benefits.

As far as the ER staff, how many have been dragged through the mud and the media, not to mention the same people here when they DO report a suspicious injury only to be called idiots. In the short time they see these kids, how can they tell an accident from an intentional act except in extreme cases?

Sometimes parents do not want to face the whole truth about their children. Bi-Polar is not always violent and he might have been on meds at the time. That said I have a brother-in-law who is definitely the black sheep of the family. He's been in and out of prison for the last 20yrs and every time he gets out he tells his Mom he's changed even though he robbing everyone right and left and bragging about it to the rest of the family. His Mom just won't listen and he's been incarcerated in Huntsville,TX not a nice place.

There was no evidence that he was a danger to his children, therefore no justification for a neutral site requirement. There are rules at work here, not simply the whims of a few people. They have to work within the facts they have.

The visits were supervised.

The police have to build a case before arresting someone. They had something, but not enough. And be sure you are stating the facts, if I recall correctly, it was his father who had the child porn not him.

Realistic, his father DID have the child porn, and was arrested for voyeurism after a search warrant was placed, and Josh Powell was living with his father on Aug. 2011.

Powell also had questionable graphic items on his computer....which was why the courts were ordering a psych eval.

Why didn't the Seattle police just beat the crap out of him like everybody else? Hell if he was an Indian they would have shot him in less than 3 seconds, if he was Mexican they would have "beat the Mexican piss" out of him, "you feel me homey?" ( quote from a Seattle Police Officer while stomping on a suspects head", if he was black they would have arrested him for a trumped up charge, ( quote from a Seattle Police Office on dash cam, "You're going to jail for robbery, I'll make sh-t up". Regretfully Wa state judges, Police and Child Protective services are completely corrupt and inept. The family courts are filled with people making false claims in order to get custody. The Family court judges are inept and more interested in advancing their own carrer than providing justice. Child protective services are filled with people who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag let alone protect these two innocent children. The child protection industry is a sham in Wa State where they are more interested in passing laws to allow gay marriage than protecting children from predators and other filth roaming their streets. So when you ask yourself why didn't they know that the house being used for supervised visits was just a front ? Know this, it's because the Officials responsible for protecting those kids were and are incompetent.

Danny....I agree with you 100% Police failed those sweet little boys and fail Susan's rights and grandparents

This wouldn't happen if POLICE would have done their job right ....... FAILED.... FAILED ... FAILED ...

I hope you involved are loosing sleep just like Susan's parent are in pain......

That is what I can't understand. How hard would it have been to find the storage locker during two years. I don't know when he first rented it, but I sure hope it wasn't right after Susan's disappearance. If that is her blood on the comforter, if they had found it, this senseless slaughter might have been avoided.

Very hard, if they didn't have warrants. It's a different scenario now that he is dead.

I agree. If necessary, send a large beefy cop in plainclothes along with the social worker. I grieve for those two little boys, but my sympathy also to the social worker. The hell she must be going through I wouldn't wish on anyone, but something we all need to consider is that the crime(s) at the time took place in Utah, not Washington state. I have yet to understand why he was allowed to leave the state of Utah, as he was a material witness at the very least.

Roberta, regretfully your compassion is misplaced. May God provide the Justice and punishment this piece of filth avoided while here on earth. he had his chance,,,,for God's love, mercy and compassion. He blew it. Hopefully he's shoveling coal in hell and is Satan's personal love slave!

Because person of interest has no real legal weight. He was not charged with any crime. I believe the only reason he didn't have custody in full was because of the child pornography issues related to his father. We don't generally take kids from people only suspected of a crime, unless that crime is directed at the children, and even then it requires enough evidence to obtain a court order.

You can say anything you want until someone bitches, there's no auto-censor. Oddly enough, people get more offended by not agreeing with them than by the language you use. Go figure.

woodright.....That is very funny THANKS

What the heck is "dtr"? Try writing in plain English. It doesn't take that much more effort, and is certainly more effective.

People always seem to assume that killers feel remorse for their crimes and that "having to live with themselves" is some kind of punishment in itself. While that might apply to normal people, it's just not true for psychopaths like Josh Powell. This is a man who told his own kids that he had "a big surprise" and then took a hatchet to them, presumably so they couldn't run when he set the fire. He feels nothing except his own twisted justification and self-pity. As a society we're truly better off that he's dead.

It had already been determined that Powell was actually living at his Dad's house.

Bigph: I disagree with you somewhat. Susan Powell was missing for 2 years. Josh Powell was the only "person of interest." Police should have been secretly monitoring him, finding out what he was doing (like they did with Scott Peterson). You don't just stop investigating. How did they find out about this storage unit now? And that this house was a "sham?" I'm not blaming the police, but it's a scary thought to think that things like this cannot be prevented.