AMVCTXNV. WHY.

@ Phillip.

Because he's a troll, and that's what trolls do.

350 Americans died on our nations roads this weekend. Seperate incidents. No national headlines.

Gallagher, thanks for the numbers comparison----I say tell it like it really is! And I loved your "not that I'm complaining...." observation! Ain't it the truth?!

There are people dead and missing from a horrible accident and a discussion topic is presidential vacations. Frankly I am tired of all the Bush/Obama comparisons. Its like having a discussion about "what do you think is worse?", when both are absolutely awful.

Sending Prayers that the missing are found safe and for all the families of those involved.

This is terrible news.

No one is invincible---

There are always the risk takers who do not believe what the Warnings/Dangers sign say.

Wow, what a tragedy--condolences to those who perished by an Avalanche, and their sorrowful families.

A.C.1213193: Then how come you still stink?

rockinwithdokken: Someone make you read this article?

Paul W; did you work at AWD?

I bought a Dokken LP out of the cut-out bin for 99cents - I got ripped off.

I remember driving a friend and his wife up to Stevens Pass on New Years eve (he was a drummer and they were the band in the lounge that night). I couldn't see 10 feet in front of me - I hate to side with Dokken - but more people die driving those passes in one week than die sporting in one year.

I don't recall too many avalanches at Stevens, it's a fairly small slope and not that steep...but then I didn't go to the top - I was lucky to survive the small hills.

rockin, what's the old saying? Nothing is certain except death and taxes...

Don't ski out of bounds! They keep the trails safe and it's clearly marked, THIS is why.

These are professionals. I have skied 7th heaven and it is not that technical of a hill! Nothing like the slopes in Valdez Alaska( I have skied those as well) They had the skill to be out there! This was just one of those thing that can happen when you push the envelope!

With that said stay in bounds to ski! Unless you are a pro... I am sure they checked the snow pack for it's stability. ALL back country ski's do

I'm not a skier so were they skiing somewhere they should not have been? "Out Of Bounds Area" what's that??

Yes, it's too bad people suffered and died. But, that's why the area was Out of Bounds. It's called Natural Selection. Those not bright enough to recognize the posted danger are doomed to fail.

It is very unfortunate that three people died. Avalanche danger is something you always have to be concerned with when you go back country skiing. It sounds like this as a group of very well qualified skiers who just got caught in a bad, unexpected situation. The fact that they found them quickly tells me that they were probably well equipped and carrying locator beacons. It is unfortunate that even with this, they did not survive. Clearly this was not expected as the article clearly says that the avalanche danger was not high at the time they went out. It is good to hear that the other skiers who were missing have been located and are OK.

For those making comments regarding them being out of bounds, I see no mention of that in the article. Many ski areas have back country skiing terrain that is open to skiers. Just because they were skiing in an ungroomed area without designated trails does not mean they were out of bounds or doing something wrong. In fact, some ski areas even have back country guides that take skiers who are good skiers but just may not know the area out into these areas to ski. Some good skiers prefer to avoid the crowds of the groomed trails and head out into the back country to ski natural terrain away from the masses.

For those who were derailing this discussion into politics about presidential vacations, please grow up. Either that or go crawl back under your rocks like good little trolls and leave the discussion to the adults who wish to discuss the actual article.

Stevens Pass was my least favorite of the various ski resorts w/in reasonable driving distance of Seattle back when I lived there. Perhaps I just had bad luck, but it seemed like every trip I took to Stevens followed the pattern of: white-knuckle drive, rude & belligerent staff, overpriced lift ticket, crowded lift lines. The terrain was pretty decent, but it wasn't that good. The drive was especially treacherous -- and this is coming from someone who's driven snowy mountain passes in The Cascades (WA & OR), The Rockies (BC & CO) and The Sierras (CA) many, many times.

That's why I usually ended up skiing at The Summit/Snoqualmie or Alpental . . . not nearly as much terrain or vertical feet, but closer, cheaper and better-staffed. I liked Crystal a lot as well, but it was just a little too far for day trips for me. As for skiing "out-of-bounds," I've done plenty of it, but at the urging of companions - always made me too nervous to really enjoy myself . . . for precisely the reasons illustrated in this tragic story.

JS in SD

Can't U read? it clearly states they were out of bounds, not in some back country shangrila!

areas are out of bounds for a reason!! and just because someones a PRO doesn't mean they can go in there!!!! Darwinism at work and in this case it seems to have been successful!!!!

tony-helland,you-are-a-retard-piece-of-@!$%#.show-some-respect-for-the-dead.---people-wo-have-lived-more-in-one-day-than-you-will-in-you-entire-miserable-boring-ass-life...have-fun-at-tgi-fridays-this-weekend...fag

I love it when some one that doesn't even know you calls you a retard and a fag...it's obvious how this person has disdain for the fore mentioned people as he see's fit to use them as insults!!! just sayin!!!

@helland: Isn't that kind of like calling the kettle black. In your reference to Darwinism you were obviously making some form of disdainful comment to the people who were unfortunate to lose their lives. No, you didn't throw the same insults at them that natejhole did to you, but unless you actually knew the three people, your own statement nulls itself. I wouldn't be so quick to point out insults thrown at you if you are going to insult others as well. just sayin....

Skiing in pristine powder and getting a higher rush from the danger potential. I almost forgot to mention bragging rights.

Just as an FYI, it doesn't say anything about it being skiers. It very well could have been snowshoers, in which case they aren't allowed in bounds in the ski areas. The term out of bounds only refers to areas not under patrol or watch by the ski patrol. It can be safe when you know what you're doing and check the avalanche conditions, but as stated the conditions had gotten worse. They shouldn't have been out there.

Why out of bounds? STUPIDITY!

Life is short, do what you enjoy,know the risks and be prepared the best way you can. One does not have to look far to end up at risk(while we're at our recreation) in one way or another. Sorry to the families for their loss,I hope that everyone is found.

I am a Stevens Pass season's pass holder---I just spent 3 nites/4 days this wkend in the RV lot, skiing and enjoying the snow and fun. This is a great tragedy to our local resort community. As I drove down the pass this afternoon, I saw a DOT worker/medics helping a snowboarder across HWY 2. Odd (although not an unusual backcountry drop). Met about 12 WSP/local deputies, response vehicles and medics speeding along the highway. Knew something SUPER bad must have happened. Very sad for families and friends...they were NOT stupid/inexperienced kids. At least 1 was a affilliated with the ski school. All over the age of 30 & experienced skiers. They all had the proper equipment. Just had their powder day (with all the inherrant risks) cut too short. RIP.

The call of good powder in Washington is hard to resist....

Well, you trek out of bounds, then an avalanche happens. Well, I guess you're OUT! What does out of bounds mean people? DUH!!!!!!!!!! Stupid Is, Is What Stupid Does.

To some living only in Bounds is just not living. Come on. This is why it is called an Accident not an On Purpose. Life is what life is-------the same with death. They went out doing what they love. I could be so lucky.

Because they willfully chose to ski in an out of bounds area, resulting in the dispatch of emergency crews to attempt a rescue and eventual recovery, the cost of the effort should be charged to the survivors and a claim filed against the estates of the deceased, who should all be jointly and severally liable for those costs. That will do two things. One, allocate the expense to those whose intentionally reckless conduct caused the expenditure to be incurred, rather than the taxpaying public which is not responsible. This properly allocates risk where it belongs. Second, that cost allocation will operate as a deterrence to others who now have little incentive to avoid the risky behavior. They apparently are not dissuaded by the risk itself, arrogantly believing that their mortality is not at issue and believing that they are mightier than the mountain itself because they are "experienced.". Perhaps they will be dissuaded when the news passes that the families of the three men who died had to pay for their poor decision.

You must have been confined within the boundaries of your house, car or office cubicle your whole life Issac, just to follow all the rules like any other tool/slave. All these rules are for is to have the government protect people from themselves. Anything worth living for always involves some risk.

I feel sorry for you.

Skiing out of bounds is commonplace and not dangerous unless you don't heed avalanche warnings, don't take this as a "they were stupid because they were skiing out of bounds". Please be informed before you make judgements. I will concede that they were stupid for not being more careful about the avalanche risk, although given their experience I can only assume they understood the risks and decided anyway.

There is Out of Bounds - SKI AT YOUR OWN RISK; and there is Out Of Bounds - No Entry Allowed.. This was a Ski At Your Own Risk site, they took the risk and the risk took them. I feel for their families, but does a continuous game of Russian Roulette actually enhance your lifestyle? Is it really worth it?

They went thru an "access gate" yes it's ski at your own risk, but they also used good practices and were prepared, this was just a tragic event. Respect

Not ending well are the ones which are read about.

They do it for the same reason some climb onto slippery rocks on the edge of an ice cold mountain stream only to fall into the raging water and plummet over a water fall to their death.

They do it for the same reason that some cross the rope boundaries around a scalding sinkhole in Yellowstone to peer into a bubbling cauldron before breaking through a thin crust only to be boiled alive.

They do it for the same reason a tourist wades into chest-deep water to get a good photo of a moose calf and it's short-tempered momma.

Often times the greatest danger we face in life is poor judgement.

The world is full of dangerous places to play, consider the cost before jumping in!

Probably for the same reason as the four climbers in the middle of winter on Mt. Rainier last month. Not well thought out.

First of all, I'm posting on a subject I know nothing about. I'm not a skier, or snowboarder, or snowshoer (though I've been to Stevens Pass). Fools rush in . . .

What does "out of bounds" mean? In golf, it means "off the fairway, beyond the rough--off the course." In this case, I have read a post (above) which says that it simply means it's an area which is not visited by the ski patrol.

In any event, there seems to be an assumption (never assume) in many posts that "out of bounds" means "in a dangerous area" or maybe even "no trespassing." I don't know.

What I do know, as others have pointed out, is that life involves risks. Sometimes, no amount of caution can prevent the world from sneaking up and biting you in the ass. Other times, we know what the risks are and take them anyway.

I certainly have. I've done things that I knew could result in my death. I did them anyway. I took those risks because I wanted the experience and figured I could beat the odds (which were in my favor going in). I did. If that was how the folks in this story were thinking, they backed the wrong horse. Whatever they were thinking, my guess is that they were aware of the possibilities.

Too bad.

Good judgement usually comes from experience.

A lot of experience comes from bad judgement.

Why would the Wright Brothers be so dumb as too want to fly? I know hundreds of people who ski 'out of bounds' and are doing just fantastic. I went to Austria with my son and we found out that the only rule was to make sure you had the ability before you started because there won't be anyone to help you if you get into trouble. The only thing we couldn't do alone was ski the high alpine pass. We lived through it and had some great fun. The guys I worked with sat home and watched 'Jackass' on TV.

Seems logical to me.

You actually said something meaningful and nice. That is a nice change.

I always say something nice when its appropriate. Other topics I give my opinion. And I could give a rats ass what anyone thinks of it. I have the right to mine, just like you have a right to yours.

You will notice I always get a lot of support for my opinions. And its usually an opinion that fascist and right wingers cant stand. Because I tell it like it is.

Mike, I agree with you in part, An avalanche class is a great idea even for experienced skiers who like to go off the beaten path. I learned how to ski on Stevens back in the 80's and did the back slope a couple of times. The hike back was a bitch! The reason according to the snow patrol, that this area is off limits is because it was not the property of the resort and they assume no liability. They won't stop you from skiing the back slope though.

I hope this turns out better than it has so far..

Dabugguy is right, Out of Bounds just means outside the ski area boundry. I am a ski patroller, and at my area we have well marked gates to access the out of bounds areas. It is well marked that the users of these gates are at their own risk and that avalanche dangers are present. Anyone going into these back country areas are advised to call the local avalanche hot-lines and other resources to determine the extent of the danger (IT IS NEVER NOT DANGEROUS, JUST LESS OR MORE DANGEROUS). Any group should have all participants outfitted with beacons, light weight shovels, and snow probes, as if you do it often enough, it is not a matter of if, but of when. Of course those items do not do a bit of good unless you have been through at least a level one class to learn the basics of identifiying avalanche conditions, how to protect yourself, and how to rescue those in your party unfortuate enough to get buried.

In one of our training films, it is narrated by one of the foremost experts on avalanche dangers. At the end of the film, you find out that this expert was killed recently in an avalanche himself. No one is immune. But if you love the back country and accept and prepare for the risks, it is a rewarding experience.

I hope this helps.

Johnny O

I don't remember reading that the survivors were blaming the ski resort, though.

Out of bounds is not the same as no skiing. There are often access gates to the out of bounds areas. All it means is that it isn't the property of the snowpark and isn't maintained by them, and you take your own risks skiing there and should be experienced and well-trained for avalanche dangers, because they aren't liable for your death or injury if you go there. These folks were experienced winter-sports enthusiasts in their 30's, all well-trained and all perfectly literate. There was nothing against the laws or even against the rules that they were doing, it's just the risk you take when you go traipsing about on a snow-covered mountain, regardless of whether you are in the official park or not. Even being in the official ski park there's still risk of injury or death if you have an accident.

My comment was supposed to be a reply to person #9. Stupid computers.

Certainly not saying death is the *appropriate punishment* for ignoring and disobeying out-of-bounds signs... only that death is most certainly a distinct possibility if something bad happens in out-of-bounds areas.

Mother Nature is not fair, and she is far less forgiving than the judicial system. The signs were posted to protect them. They ignored the warning signs. They paid the ultimate price. When the DOT puts signs up prohibiting people from walking along most freeways (I said most!!!), it's not so they can ticket whomever they find strolling down the shoulder of the road, it is because IT'S NOT SAFE! The laws of man do not trump the laws of physics.

I sympathize with the families of the victims, but they were victims of their own stupidity.

Yes, I do. Do you think death is acceptable punishment if you ignore the "one way" sign and drive into oncoming traffic? Survival of the fittest....

It means, "Don't go there".... LOLOL

It means "unmarked" for skiers. For those of you such as yourselves who don't know the sport, it means 'no defined trail' or 'outside resort property'. That doesn't imply "keep out" because that's what the "keep out" / "no trespassing" / "closed" markers are for.

Helps to know the context.

Mitchell

Nobody cares or asked what you believe or don't believe.

Nobody cares or asked what you believe or don't believe.

Why not make a similar comment about the posts that are sending "prayers"?

Well Argues, he probably didn't because they are not saying they are Christian, Jewish or whatever and sending a prayer. Maybe the same reason he did not comment to others that simply hoped all would be well. Master's statement about being atheist is comparable to these stupid political comments on this story. I suppose you will choose to make more of it though.

Or maybe he said he is Atheist due to the fact that so many religious people seem to think that Atheists are incapable of sympathy. Mention "prayer" and you're implying religion. Non-religious cannot "imply" their beliefs. Religious people can say they hope all is well too, saying or writing "prayer" is an announcement just as if they had said "I'm a (fill-in-the-blank)".

Or maybe you are just a toy for my amusement argues.

Then you may take a powder!

In my post I say they are not stupid, but they are criminal, as there is a chance that the resources being used and the people attempting to recover bodies or rescue survivors could better serve the county by being available elsewhere. Speeding is also a crime, I myself don't drive, but posted speed limits are there for a reason, as are the signs stating, "out of bounds." If a person violates a posted sign, they are subject to penalty, and if the violation is aggregious enough, possible criminal charges, and most definitely reimbursement of costs associated with trial, rescue, etc.., not to mention punitive damages for endangerment.

Recreating on public land is not criminal. The SAR folks are all volunteers, with the exception of the deputy in charge and maybe a few staff. Out of bounds simply means that it is outside of the boundary of the lease held by the ski area. The entire area behind the magic "out of bounds" line is public land (Forest Service) and accessible to anyone that chooses to access it, much like people hiking in the summer, boating or recreating outside of the roped off & life guarded areas.

I literally just returned from an 'out of bounds' backcountry ski tour in another state, to have my phone ringing off of the hook - I have spent considerable time in this area, and am deeply concerned about the folks that are very good friends of mine who are certainly participating in the search and rescue efforts. They were probably among the first on the scene.

Please hold your accusatory comments for after the details have come in.

(FYI, the greatest avalanche incident in the history of the US occurred very near this incident in 1910. Everyone was in a community or train at the time.)

What mind? I am unable to detect any signs of intelligence in your comment.

I agree with you MKB.. And from what I understand, the people who were killed were innocently driving down the road when the avalanche, that these OTHER people caused, hit.

MKB - going by your reasoning sking should be outlawed then. Or any winter sport. American is right! What mind? They were not doing anything against the law! You need to know the terminology used in sking or read the posts by other people who actually know what "out of bounds" means. It did not say "no tresspassing"

cmach - I hope you are just trolling - you really can't be that stupid - did you READ the article? Where does it say the people that died were in a car? They were sking!

I don't even know why I am bothering - you can't cure stupid! And these are two of the most severe cases I have ever encountered.

mynx. Are you really that stupid? Do you think this is the ONLY article there is on this ? There was an article in a local paper that stated differently!

Yup. Can't cure stupid!

"Three skiers were killed in Washington after an avalanche swept them about 2,000 feet. Elyse Saugstad, a professional skier who survived the incident, says she's "absolutely devastated" over the loss of her friends. NBC's Kristen Dahlgren reports. "

That would be copied from THIS article right up there. You know, the one on THIS page. From the girl that was actually IN the avalanche that took the lives of three of her friends.

Yeah, I will stick with my original comment. These people were not criminals and they were not in a car. Three lives tragically cut short and you and nimrod (MKB) up there want to give them tickets and charge their families for the costs associated with trial, rescue, etc.., not to mention punitive damages for endangerment. WHAT? What trial? Punitive damages? For what?

And the post you actually said you agreed with "The reality is that the families of these people may be and should be billed for all the hours and costs associated with the rescue or recovery of these individuals. Someone mentioned tickets being issued, but the risks asssociated with winter rescues put all involved in danger, so realistically there act of going out of bounds is endangering many people who would rather be saving the lives of "accidents." They are criminals, not idiots, in my mind."

Yup. Can't cure stupid!

I just saw survivor Elyse Saugstad's story about the avalanche survival device she had. The 3 guys she was with all died. The cost for one of those devices is roughly $700-$1000, depending on brand, etc. If I saw that price tag on the shelf that would seem staggering but I'm sure to her, right now, it seems like chump change.

Amazing device though. Anybody who goes out into areas where avalanches are possible should read up on 'em.

It was a little before my time

A little.

It's nothing like that at all. Not even a little bit.