I've covered my share of water rescues while working for the local media in a previous career. Unfortunately, one time a pair of water rescue divers I was acquaintances with died while trying to free a commercial diver who had become trapped under water. Later, it was determined that the two dead rescue divers had rushed into the water without adequate awareness the situation underwater, or precaution for their own safety.

In general principal, every time search and rescuers have gone into the water, it's been for a body recovery rather than saving a life. Unfortunately, by the time dive rescue arrives on scene, too much time has elapsed to save the original victim.

Why don't they put a diver in immediately? Is that really a question. Okay. Here is an equally stupid answer. Because they really were not interested in saving him. They are just there for the show.

Jeez. Stupid comments abound.

Generally, it will take some time to get a diver suited up and in the water. A fire truck doesn't carry diving equipment on board. The man who fell through the ice probably expired pretty quickly, so it was from the beginning more of a body recovery than rescue.

Wrong on a number of points. Fire departments located in areas that get cold winters are normally equipped for ice/cold water rescues. That means they have equipment trucks that carry dry suits and scuba gear. In fact, some of the larger departments around where I live in Wisconsin are equipped with small hovercraft specifically for ice rescues. Winters are cold enough in the Chicago area that they should have been have been properly equipped to respond to the call. When someone is under the ice, you don't waste time and risk personnel by poking around the hole. You suit up a diver, attach a safety line, and send them in. Why the department in the article failed to immediately do so is not clear.

Also, due to the way the body responds to hypothermia, someone who drowns in freezing water actually has a considerably larger window of time where it's possible for them to be revived and not only survive, but also escape permanent injury. I know of more than one person who was recovered from under the ice and revived after 20-30 minutes and survived without any permanent brain damage. Naturally, in warmer conditions their brain would have been long gone by then, but the hypothermia changes that.

Code of Honor:

scalla1 & Airdog your comments need to be collapsed. No reason to call names... ??

The fire department in the middle of cities are not equipped to rescue someone from a small pond in their own back yard. If there is a sizable lake, or river in their area maybe, but not private ponds. They probably had to call for a diver from another department across town. The average fire department does NOT have scuba gear on-board. This is not the movies.

If there is a sizable lake, or river in their area maybe, but not private ponds. They probably had to call for a diver from another department across town.

Keeping your comment above in mind, take a look at Johnsburg, IL on a map and see if you can figure out why a fire department in the area should have been equipped to handle such a situation. If one department isn't properly equipped but another is, guess which one is suppose to get the call from the dispatcher?

The average fire department does NOT have scuba gear on-board. This is not the movies.

No, this is not the movies. It's the reality in areas around bodies of water that routinely ice over in the winter, which you are apparently have no knowledge about.

You'd think the guy would have been dead before rescue crews ever arrived on the scene. He was under water right? Not just water either, freezing cold ice water. How long do you think he has? 2, maybe 3 minutes tops before he drowns. No rescue crew is arriving on scene in that amount of time.

Another disturbing part of this story is just simply, what is this guy doing? 2 inches of ice and you're not just out on it skating away, but you got your son with you too? This story could easily have two fatalities instead of one. I don't get it, it's just hockey. Are you really jonesin to play so bad you're willing to risk your life? And your sons?

your skating on thin ice ...

Fire departments should have someone on every shift that is trained in rescues of every nature but that is not always the case, its not always the fire dept that handles the rescue some communities have search and rescue as a entirely different organization and is usually under the sheriffs dept and is slow to mobilize due to the fact that they are volunteers and live a separate life, so they have a slow response time (they might be at work) most communities cant afford to have divers on standby all the time for the one or two times a year one might be needed, that's why we have the warning system, when they say stay off the ice! well stay off the ice! till then if you feel the necessity to do better encourage your fire department to train people if your community has the extra funds to do so. but remember every time you train someone they become a value to another community and they will try to get them on their team so you loose, also its not a one time thing you have to keep up the training, so its a ongoing expense. just stay off the ice. I know this from first hand experience. I agree that a dry suit and some type of breathing apparatus should be included with the equipment truck but a untrained person may just become another victim, and who needs that. plus have you ever tried to swim under water wearing a drysuit it doesn't work so well, you would be better off with a wet suit and a weight belt made just for you. and that equipment needs allot of care and proper maintenance and storage. because your well being depends on that equipment. its a big expense.

I fell through the ice when I was a 7 year old kid and it was very cold out, this has been a warm winter, you would think a guy in his 40s would have the sense to stay off the ice, but I'll tell you that other than the painfull need to breath, it's pretty peacefull when you know you're going to drown under the ice, I know because I can still remember being under the ice thinking I was going to drown, it's many years ago and I can picture every moment, except I didn't die. If I would have, I could have been spared living in this rotten world for all these years, I envy that guy, even though I feel bad for his family.

I don't mean to sound insenitive to someone's death, like I said I feel bad for his family, but when someone get's out of this rotten world by some accident like that, that is not violent and bloody, I envy the guy, because we all die and there is a lot of bad stuff happening in this world that I would have rather never seen.

@DaveBoo - He didn't die of hypothermia, he died of drowning (asphyxiation). If he had been clinging to the ice for sometime, you are correct, hypothermia would have kicked in and start to shut his body down and kept the body preserved. He went under the water immediately, denying his brain oxygen, killing him and basically dying to fast to allow hypothermia to take over. Hypothermia is a long process, drowning is a relatively quick one.

Like you said, this isn't the movies. You can't just drown cold water and be okay thirty minutes later. Hypothermia needs time to develop.

In times like this, I use what I like to call "The Rock Test". Basically, you grab a rock, say about the size of one's head, and you throw it out onto the ice (it has to be a heavy rock y'know). If the Ice starts cracking like crazy, or, y'know, plops into the water, then it's probably not a good idea to go out on the ice.

That's life's little lesson: If you're unsure, throw something big and heavy at it. This can be applied to a lot of situations in life.

It's amazing how many people didn't read the whole story.at the end of the story it said that he had been underwater for 31 minutes.so it wouldn't have mattered if they did jump in immediately he was already gone.

DaveBoo said due to the bodies response to hypothermia there is a chance to survive drowning longer in cold water. This is a correct statement in theory. He also pointed out that there have been several cases of 20-30 minutes under water where the person has survived and not suffered permanent brain damage, which is a correct statement. Before you rebuke someone you should do a little research, you're on the internet for God's sake.

sorry it was at the beginning of the story

That's the problem with a lot of contractors. They aren't able to deviate or think outside the box. Example... A customer tells a builder they want a different brand of shingle than the builder usually installs, but the builder, not being able to deviate from his normal routine, has the shingles he usually installs, delivered to the job site.

This happened to me when I had a new house built back in 2004. This was just one example of non-deviation from my builder. Unfortunately, the builder in this article was responsible for his own death, and he very easily could have been responsible for his sons death. Now his son will be without a Dad.

That's really interesting Dip @!$%# DaveB001!! I am a assistant fire chief for a small dept. We have creeks ponds etc. all around us. We do not have anyone trained for diving nor do we have a wet suit. I fully welcome you to go to our city council and request this. I will be waiting for the outcome, it should be interesting when they tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine because we don't have the funding. We apply for federal and local grants every year and have been denied on all of them for the past 8 years. If you want to donate the money to all departments so we are equip. and trained in this area please let me know we would love your generosity.

@kate-2736572 You just added your stupid comment. They were not there for the "show". They get called in to do their job, just like you go and do yours. When the victim was not found in the immediate area of the broken ice, they knew that the victim was probably already dead. News flash you cannot survive long in that cold of water. They knew it was not a rescue mission, it was a recovery before the divers got there.

assistant fire chief for a small dept

Not sure you should be appealing to someone outside your community. You sound like a terrible person for the position you hold. Maybe you should step aside let some with social skills take over. Funding is tight everywhere so you have to be able to justify your expenditures. As for the training that seems to be more effort based.

That's really interesting Dip @!$%# DaveB001!! I am a assistant fire chief for a small dept.

That's nice. You sound like a real professional.

We have creeks ponds etc. all around us. We do not have anyone trained for diving nor do we have a wet suit. I fully welcome you to go to our city council and request this. I will be waiting for the outcome, it should be interesting when they tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine because we don't have the funding.

I understand your frustration, but venting at me over your lack of preparedness is not helpful. If your community has higher priorities than saving people that have fallen through the ice, that's their business and you're unfortunately stuck with that. I'm simply stating what things are like in the area where I live, where lakes and rivers are all over the place and freeze every winter. This sort of emergency response is a capability issue rather than a capacity issue, so it's obviously not necessary for every single department in a region to be so equipped. Hopefully, there is another department in your area that has been provided with the funding, proper equipment and training which can respond appropriately when the call comes in.

@ThaMonkeh

In times like this, I use what I like to call "The Rock Test". Basically, you grab a rock, say about the size of one's head, and you throw it out onto the ice (it has to be a heavy rock y'know). If the Ice starts cracking like crazy, or, y'know, plops into the water, then it's probably not a good idea to go out on the ice.

In times like this I LISTEN TO THE ADVISORY AND STAY OFF THE ICE! For all you know this guy did exactly what you are suggesting. Just because the ice doesn't crack when you toss a big rock onto it (I'm just assuming you can't throw a rock that weighs as much as you do) doesn't mean it won't weaken and break after you've been skating around on it for 20 or 30 minutes. durrrrrr

@DaveB001

I'm simply stating what things are like in the area where I live, where lakes and rivers are all over the place and freeze every winter.

Actually what you said was- "Wrong on a number of points. Fire departments located in areas that get cold winters are normally equipped for ice/cold water rescues." I have to agree with sickofit61, fire departments do not normally have this sort of equipment. We have several lakes that are popular ice fishing spots and our department certainly does not nor do any in the surrounding communities. And to suggest that our department has "higher priorities" makes you sound like as much of a dick as sickofit61. As if we're somehow neglegent for not spending a bunch of money on something that, in my 40 years, would never have been used once. It's not a matter of "priorities", it's a matter of not wasting the resources we have.

As a vol. firefighter and an EMT in training there is one factor with going through the ice into freezing cold water that no one has brought up. The man in question here has a very high likleyhood of having died of a Massive heart attack. Exposure to water that cold will cool off the blood in the extremities of your body and if he was exerting himself the now freezing cold blood rushes back to the heart. That can and has caused many fatal heart attacks, usually to people who are already out of the water and trying to move and jump around thinking that getting the blood flowing and the heart beating faster is the best thing they can do and it is not and can quite often be the very worst thing someone could do. This type of incident is a IMMEDIATE LIFE THREAT and anyone who lives around a river or lake, or any water source should look up the proper way to treat a patient who has just been exposed to these conditions or ask your local ems agency if they would hold a training session with the public to help teach you the proper things to do.

@DaveB001 -- again as I stated above I am a firefighter, in Northeastern NY, The Adirondack mountains if you want to look them up, and I can tell you right now your Normaly fire dept will not have a diver on their team, summer or winter. In my town the closest dive team is a 35 min response time with the optimal wheather conditions, but before you start bashing us keep in mind that if he had been found just under the ice he would have been cut out and removed by the firefighters, they risked thier lives to go out on what they already knew was thin ice for the chance to be able to extract this victim without having to wait for the mutual aid response of their diver. Second the Cold Water Rescue equipment does NOT contain a scuba tank or facemask or regulator, That equipment is part of the dive team equipment, a specialy trained team that is located in one spot and is ready to respond to the surrounding area. We have the wetsuits for the reason of being able to jump into the water breifly with a life jacket on in order to recover someone or assist someone out of the hole.

Prevention would have kept this person alive. Here is a why not? Why not, buy a long, long rope, tie it around a tree, car, bench, anything stationary and throw it out onto the ice, that way if you fall in you have at least something in place that could save you.

And to suggest that our department has "higher priorities" makes you sound like as much of a dick as sickofit61.

If you pay a little more attention to what I wrote, you'll notice I referred to the priorities of the community, not the fire department. Since when does a fire department get to decide what funding it will receive?

The man in question here has a very high likleyhood of having died of a Massive heart attack. Exposure to water that cold will cool off the blood in the extremities of your body and if he was exerting himself the now freezing cold blood rushes back to the heart.

A healthy adult can actually survive for several minutes in freezing cold water before succumbing. The body constricts blood flow to the extremities in an attempt to limit heat loss. As a result a person is not immediately incapacitated, as anyone who has taken the Polar Bear Plunge can attest. But as the arms and legs eventually go numb and then stiff, swimming becomes increasingly difficult. Of course, if one gets trapped under the ice by current or disorientation, drowning will occur long before that.

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia#time

again as I stated above I am a firefighter, in Northeastern NY, The Adirondack mountains if you want to look them up

It's understandable that fire departments in other regions will carry different levels and types of equipment, as well as policies concerning when and how they use particular equipment. In this area, relatively close to where the incident occured, dive teams and drysuits are often considered more of an immediate necessity:

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20120104/APC0101/201040548/Dive-team-dry-suit-purchase-advances

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/north_counties/local-state-federal-agencies-run-air-disaster-drill

Can we please all get a grasp on the fact that this winter has not actually been winter. Temperatures well above normal and well above freezing more often than not, so on what planet does that say...."Let's go out and play hockey on the ice, on the pond?" I am sorry for the family's loss and it is a shame that somebody had to lose their life needlessly, however, I think we need to consider the danger that the rescue team was put into trying to affect a rescue/recovery, and the fact that the danger could have easily been avoided. There has been little snow for skiing, sledding, etc, so why should the season be perfect in terms of playing hockey on the ice? If there is no snow, it stands to reason that it hasn't been cold enough for significant ice. Heck, the darn jonquils and crocusses are starting to come up in my garden, and many trees already have buds on them. Please use a little common sense and we can all hopefully make it to the Memorial Day barbeques

As not a volunteer firefighter, but an actual professional one, in the Rocky Mountains area where it gets cold, I laughed at some of the comments above. The majority of people have NO CLUE what their local fire department can and can't do. They think we show up like Felix the Cat with a magical bag of tricks that contains anything and everything needed for any situation. Rescue gear, let alone SCUBA specifically, is expensive, not to mention the time and training needed to use this stuff. Most communities either cannot or will not spend the money for this stuff, since roughly 85% of responses from fire departments are strictly medical (chest pain, illnesses, falls, etc.) Those that do have it will locate it either centrally or at the station with the highest propensity for that call, which may NOT be where this happened.

Another thing not mentioned is the first unit on scene was probably an engine with very limited rescue equipment. Until a specialized heavy rescue or similar unit gets on scene, it could be anywhere from 8 to 12 minutes. Given that math: A. the poor guy falls in, someone runs inside to call - 1-2 minutes B. first unit arrives on scene - 4-6 minutes (depending on location of station, traffic, weather) C. rescue unit with equipment arrives - 4-6 minutes later D. divers are geared and ready to go into water - 3-5 minutes (this stuff doesn't magically get put on and they don't walk around all day in it) E. search through water, find and retrieve victim - I'll say 10 -12 minutes considering murky water, victim drift, entanglement, etc. (It's generally hard as heck to see anything and 10-12 minutes is a pretty good time)

All together for a total of anywhere from 22-31 minutes...exactly what they said he was under for. All guesstimates, obviously, but the times are within what is generally accepted by response coverages, professional standards, etc.

Here's the cold, hard facts. This was sad and unfortunate, and sometimes people get themselves into situations they cannot be saved from. So use your head and keep yourself out of those situations. Don't expect somebody else to step in and save you. When in doubt, err on the side of caution.

I'm just glad somebody remembers Feilx the Cat and his magical bag of tricks. (Probably the lamest cartoon series/comic strip of all time, IMO.)

True. Just the only appropriate knucklehead with a "bag of tricks" that came to mind....

Wish I had a dollar for every time I hear that, I live in the land of ten thousand lakes..People keep doing it whether on a snowmobile,skating or ice fishing.

Ten thousand lakes and a million mosquito's. Ya fer shure, eh? (married a native)

We don't say "eh." That's a Canadian thing, ya shure, you betcha!

Minnesota's state bird is a mosquito, some people think its a Loon but its really a mosquito "don't ya know". And there ore over 11,000 lakes if you want to call them that, some resemble ponds others are close to being swamps but to Minnesota they are lakes. fishing is great, like to go their from time to time. great people in the rural areas, don't care much for the Twin Cities area. Id say Walker is by far the best all round town, and Leach Lake has some great fishing, just thought Id share that. went to Walker in mid September about 5 yrs ago, wow what a party town, you have to see it to believe it.

Get the puck off the ice !

D Buck,

Thanks. Living in Grand Rapids, Minnesota all my life. Great fishing no matter which season. And only a 45 minute drive to Walker. Party town indeed. All though I was on Lake Mille Lacs last weekend for the Ducks Unlimited fishing contest. Ice was 26 inches deep, any kind of vehicle you could think of was on the lake. It reminded me of a Target parking lot on Black Friday!

Actually, I AM blaming the dead. What idiot takes his kid on ice when authorities have advised to stay off of it. I'm glad he only killed himself, and not his kid. Unfortunately, he does not have a father anymore.

The problem is Ice is not consistent two inches will support a average persons weight but whats to say its two inches everywhere? where their is current the ice can be much thinner its sad this happened. he should have known better. Ive known where people fell through ice that was thin when the average was over 4" thick, you have to pay attention to springs and inlets and outlets.

Sad but true. My little sister and I spent many frigid afternoon's down the hill behind the house on the pond, "running from the cracks", as the ice would seemingly chase us off of it. It was fun to hear the moan of the ice, and cracks forming and splintering behind us. We should have both been drowned numerous times. Note to parents! Kids don't know! Don't assume they do.

Technically, no, since his son survived - he was able to pass on his genes.

You are sick!

So, you had snow on the ground. More proof this "global warming" thing is a load of hogwash, eh?

:-);)

Unfortunately, there have been other winters like this in the past 30 years....and they have more to do with the El Nina/El Nino phenomena that shifts the jet stream and weather patterns. These are cycles that start off our west coast and impact most of the nation. And don't fool yourself, as I have seen significant snow on the ground in April, and have experienced frost as late as Memorial Day.

Then your kids missed out on some great opportunities for some shiny.

You can't fix stupid. I live in the area where this man drown and while I don't wish anyone harm, I'm glad this dumb@ss didn't end up killing his kid too.

@Luce1,

Your comment should be Deleted... Why call a father that died names.. Shame on you!!!

Gee whiz dano, the guy was a contractor, need I say more?

Or you may have to rename him "Bob".

I feel sorry for laughing during this story but. Hats off to you Sirlafalot, you really made my day with that one. Boom, out of nowhere.

Doesnt mean anything on a board but condolences to the family.

Ditto Woofy, really sad for the family!!!! Calling the dead father a dumb azz is needless to say the least..

My condolences to the family...

I'm moving to Miami

I'll bet you've been hearing that since you were a very small kid.

yup...he was probably told he was skating on thin ice...

You sure the people will know what "Denger"is?

And he wasn't skiing, he was skating. Wheewww...

Denger (a.k.a "Dinger"): n. chiefly Amer. 1. a home run in baseball (q.v.) 2. something hit many times legititimately by Henry "Hammerin' Hank" Aaron and George Herman "Babe" Ruth, and considerably more times illegitimately by Barry "Hat Size 8 3/4" Bonds

Yep - there are certain mistakes you can only make once.......

Never jump into an area where the natives don't appreciate you...

As a human being and a parent, I can feel great empathy for this family's pain and loss. As a Christian, I can offer prayers that everything works out and God looks out after those left behind. But part of me can't get past the notion that we have yet another instance where following the rules and personal responsibility were optional commodities. Who cares if the winter has been mild, if it was posted not to go on the ice, that should be an end to the discussion. If it were, we wouldn't be having to have this sad discussion about an unnecessary death and the endangerment of a child.

It really depends on where you are. Up in the northern part of Minnesota, Lake Superior was partly frozen even last weekend. Lakes still have plenty of ice on them and over in Washburn and Bayfield Wisconsin, they did the Book Across the Bay on Lake Superior.

look at what you said lol "partly frozen over" ok that means areas are not frozen . stay off the stupid ice. how can you say that there is plenty of ice and say partly frozen . you sir are the next 1 to go hope your life insurance is up to date.

John you inconsiderate jackass. Do you have any idea how large Lake Superior is? The lake is a whopping 31,700 square miles. If there is a little part somewhere that is open out in the middle, I think that I will be fine in the shallows where there is a freaking foot of ice. There were 2500 people that skied across part of the lake without any issues. You just have to know what the conditions are and not be stupid about it. I hope you rot in hell if that is how you treat people. By the way, nice grammar!

Not more than once anyways.

If the ice is 12 inches DEEP, then your going to be pretty wet!! If the conditions are stable, 6 inches is plenty to support a person. Some people are crazy enough to snowmobile with 6 inches.

That sounds like a good guideline for safety-"Don't set foot unless it is a foot thick"

Nice find...That is usually about right. A solid inch of ice could actually support someone, but, you will not find a solid inch of ice. Your right in waiting until the 6 inches to walk on.