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Subscribe to RSSLOS ANGELES -- It’s called the "rubber room" -- a popular name for a reassignment center many say is emblematic of what is wrong with public education.
The rubber room is where teachers accused of everything from drug abuse to sexual harassment are sent to do nothing, but still collect a salary, benefits and accrue time toward pensions.
"Several of the people I know in rubber rooms have been there two years, some people as long as five years," said Leonard Isenberg, a disciplined Los Angeles Unified School District teacher. "You don’t just sit there. You can’t do anything. Think of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, with a paycheck."
For more, visit NBCLosAngeles.com
The LAUSD has 161 teachers assigned to various offices throughout the district. It’s a policy LAUSD Superintendent John Deasy is trying to change – as in the case with former Miramonte Elementary School teacher and accused child molester, Mark Berndt.
"Traditionally what the district has done is to say we put you in an office, we pay you, and we wait for all the stuff to happen," Deasy said. "I am not acting that way."
There are plenty of teachers who support efforts to get rid of reassignment centers, but for different reasons.
Leonard Isenberg, who taught in the district for 25 years, said he ended up in one after repeatedly complaining that his school, Central Continuation High School, was graduating students with second-grade reading levels.
Related: LA teacher heads to court on charges of lewd acts
He said that angered the principal, and that led to accusations of him yelling at students and watching pornography in class.
Isenberg used his time in the rubber room to create a web site, perdaily.com, which looks critically at the district, reassignment centers and its discipline procedure.
He was ultimately fired by the district, but still has an appeal hearing later this year. Isenberg said the district’s procedures make teachers guilty until proven innocent and fearful of false accusations.
"The students know they can get teachers in trouble by just saying anything," Isenberg said.
Retired teacher and California Teachers Empowerment Network president Larry Sand said rubber rooms are necessary and are not going away anytime soon.
"There’s arbitration and hearings and all sorts of things that have to take place before a teacher would actually lose his job," Sand said. "If he’s not in the classroom, they have to put him somewhere."
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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And people wonder why so many states especially Ca. are broke. Just an example how public unions are raping the taxpayers.
Notice how they only speak of individual teachers that have a problem with the rubber rooms. If the union really had a problem with them, they'd flex their union muscles and do something about it. Instead, the rubber room is to their advantage, by keeping the school district paying for employees who probably deserved to be fired completely. It's a two-edged sword. Works for some people, doesnt work for others. This is only a story right now because that one school in California that rubber-roomed the whole staff in the wake of sex allegations.
Your example of happy unions raping the public. Think only these unions do this?? How about the continued rape of the automobile companies. In fact, see if you can think of any place that unions (and their exalted leaders) do a good job without 'jobbing' their bosses.
And of course, Oblama supports this.
And the unions continue to get their cut directly from the same teachers sitting in those rubber rooms. Not a lot of incentive to do anything about it...
they may have out done florida...
With collective bargaining a thing of the past in Wisconsin, we'll never have something as outrageous as this. Thank You Governor Walker! By the way New York City has the same cushy arrangement with there union teachers, how could this ever happen?
I understand the need for rubber rooms, you cant exactly fire a teacher every time a stupid student makes a false claim...nor can you keep them all working assuming every accusation is false.
There has to be a middle ground, where teachers wait out the accusation process.
The only issue I take with this, is that these teachers are sitting on the butts doing nothing. Isolate them from students, FINE - but put them to work.
If they've done nothing wrong and want to keep their job, im guessing they'll be capable of doing grunt work until the process works itself out.
OR they can just quit their jobs and go elsewhere.
Typical conservatives - cant find logical solutions to REAL PROBLEMS, so you just toss the whole system aside and assume no system is better than fixing the broken one.
Maybe you should try considering things from both points of view. Do you believe that a teacher should be immediately fired based on an unsubstantiated complaint from a student? Do you believe a teacher should continue to teach in the classroom while an accusation against them is being investigated?
If the answer to both of those is no, then what do you want to do with them while the investigation happens?
And where are the liberal logical solutions? The status quo?
It's the liberals and their Union goons that have caused these REAL PROBLEMS at least the conservatives have to stones to address it while most liberals won't even acknowledge the problem exists because they dare not upset their sugar daddy Union bosses.
The problem is that the administration does not properly investigate the charges. I can speak from experience since my wife went through this (see below). When a charge is found to be false they put them back only to get someone else to make a false accusation and the process begins again. Administrators hope the person they don't like will just move on. I'm not against removing bad/criminal teachers. But it's all to easy to make false accusations to remove someone you just don't like.
The issue is not the fact that these "rubber rooms" exist, it is the length of time that teachers sit there doing nothing. There is absolutely no reason that a teacher should be sitting in one of these facilities for years getting paid for doing nothing. The investigations should be completed promptly and appropriate action taken to either get the teacher back in the classroom or fire them, whichever is appropriate to the outcome of the investigation. The teacher should not be allowed to sit there collecting a paycheck while they and their union drag things out for years with endless delaying tactics and appeals. Once the initial investigation is complete a personnel action should be taken. If they are fired and want to appeal that decision, fine. But there is no reason to keep paying someone once they have been fired, since a reversal of that decision and their return to a classroom is unlikely. That said, even with appeals there is no reason the process should take years. An appeal should be able to completed in a matter of weeks, or maybe a month or two at most, it should not take years. The state is sending a fortune paying these teachers for doing nothing.
In inability to clean out failed employees (and companies) is the main feature and threat of socialism. These rubber rooms are just another form of deferring what needs to be done.
Yeah, it's the unions that are ripping off the taxpayers - not the corporations like GE and Exxon and their army of lobbyists which ensure they pay ZERO taxes, all the while receiving BILLIONS in subsidies.
Just keep drinking the Beck/Limbaugh Kool-Aid, and keep your head buried in the sand!
Investigations should take less time, for sure. But is that the fault of the teacher or the union? You're blaming the union for a problem it didn't create.
Thank you, Jessica. Why pay them to sit on their asses doing nothing? They could be catching up on grading papers, filing lesson plans to improve math and English scores to be examined and approved by the school board or sent back for revision...I'm personally all for them doing that AND going without pay, or a half-salary for the week but don't give them time off from their students and them give them that standard teacher holidays.
Apparently, it is not just 'stupid students' making false claims; this teacher took his concerns to the prinicipal about students who were graduating with merely a second-grade reading level. Obviously, if you are a student speaking out about a bad teacher (and they do exist) or a teacher speaking to his principal about flaws in the educational process, it appears it is much easier for an adult in the administration to make false claims about parental complaints or a teacher surfing porn in an effort to silence a teacher who is actually concerned about education. I would speculate that this happens more often than we would like to believe. It is much easier for a prinicipal to paint a bad picture of a teacher, who is making too much noise, than it would be for a 'stupid student' to make a false claim. In general, 'stupid students' don't have the resources or motives adults have to make false claims. Also, anyone who automatically labels children as 'stupid' clearly has a biased opinion of kids as well as making this a conservative or liberal issue. If an emotional attachment has been placed on an argument, then that person can no longer view the argument objectively.
Jessica-1170252 - I'm sure the pubic unions will have no problem with those teachers being assigned to do "grunt" work. Just like a typical liberal offer a non-solution and blame the other side.
Skup, I find it ironic that you accuse Jessica of blaming the "other side" and calling her a "typical liberal" in the same sentence. Do you not see the complete hypocrisy of what you just wrote?
krazymop, I think their solution is to fire the teachers without due process. Guilty until proven innocent.
Of course they don't take into consideration the fact that it will probably result in a large load of costly litigation if they are proven innocent.
Why not round up ALL the teachers in ALL the States rubber rooms and send them to a nice quiet place like Del Rio, Texas, to await their fate ?
Gosh, they could pick up all the trash left behind by the flood of Illegal Aliens (Immigrants) in order to get their pay and benefits.
/sarcasm/
A National Board Certified Teacher who also has an M.Ed, is being fired by Gilbert Public Schools (Arizona). What did this teacher do? She reported bullying and racial discrimination.
A judge found that Gilbert Public Schools officials violated Title VII, Section 703 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for unlawful employment practices and also violated Title 29 of the Federal Code of Federal Regulations by discriminating against a teacher and harassing her on the basis of her national origin. The judge noted that the teacher's "daughter was being bullied, and the school was not addressing the situation" and that "Overall, the work environment was negative, hostile and unbearable." What did Gilbert Public Schools do about high level officials whose actions were found to be illegal discrimination? NOTHING!
Teachers often get blamed for anything and everything that happens in and out of school. It's really sad when a teacher stands up to bullying in the classroom, only to be overruled by a principal who caves in to a bully's parents' demands about how their child must be accommodated rather than held accountable. Parents of the victims of bullying never know what has happened to their children, but the principal and district administrators can say there's no bullying problem in that school!
What's happening to the teacher? The district wants to fire her. She's now on admin leave, waiting for a hearing. Her students are distraught. Their parents are upset. But the administrators and superintendents continue as before.
How do the Unions benefit by keeping teachers on? All this talk about how the Unions created these problems! If the teacher is fired, another one is hired, so the Union doesn't lose anything. I've taught in states with strong unions and states with no or weak unions, where good teachers were wrongfully fired or harrassed. With a strong union, the teacher is protected from bully administrators who have to work hard to prove their case, and often want to get rid of teachers for reasons other than poor teaching. In the other states, the teachers have no recourse whatsoever, and being fired basically destroys your career. Usually, the administrators don't want to take the effort to document truly ineffective or "bad" teachers' actions. Believe me, it's nice to know that you have a union covering your back to prevent being fired for no reason other than administrator whim. Who wouldn't want that?
krazymop - I accused Jessica of blaming Republicans because that is what she did. My comment was a response to this.
Amazing! But if you watch Glen Beck you would have known two years ago that this exact thing is happening in NY City as well. But that's the Lame Stream media for you. If it wasn't for Beck most of them would have nothing to talk about every night.
Glen Beck? This was on 60 Minutes before that. All Beck did was take what 60 Minutes researched and put his own spin on it.
If you only depend on Beck for your news, yes, no one in your circle was talking about it. Since Beck is your leader, nothing is worthy unless Beck says so.
Try reading/viewing news from multiple sides and you'll be "amazed" how much information is out there.
Regulator, I agree with your last statement completely. I only wish that those on the left would understand that when they only go to the liberal news sources, they are as one sided as those on the right that only go to a Beck.
One of the best interviews of the '08 presidential campaign was an interview of Hillery by O'Reilly. It had pointed questions, yet when she responded, her answer was never stepped on. Follow up questions did not allow the political spin that we see to much of, rather delved deeper into her thoughts. If more people had watched this, we might have a different president now.
Are you really utilizing Glen Beck as a voice of reason and good journalism?
Pretty fast spin, Cygnus. You take the crooked union crap and now turn this thread against Glen Beck. Let's not let the messy union facts get in the way.
Hmmm, Glen Beck (as did 20-20, not 60 Min.) reports on a story that is unflattering and true about unions. The main stream media chooses to ignore it. So which media is to be trusted with giving us the news we need to know?
how are those two not main stream media? If you were talking about some obscure blog, I'd give you that, but Beck and 20/20 ARE main stream media.
And as to who to trust? The answer is probably nobody. Considering the news outlets are for-profit companies, they have an interest in selling ads, good sales come from getting an audience. The media chose to segment itself by securing markets, by telling specific segments exactly what they want to hear; that is their product.
Beck, Rush, Maddow, Matthews, etc are all selling a public persona, an image of a belief system. And people eat it up, they love to see someone that either thinks like them, or someone they can scream "Liar!" at. And they are pretty successful at it.
Anyone that can't see that these people/companies are pandering to viewers just to make a buck, is just a being a lemming.
NPR broadcast a story about New York City's "rubber rooms" back in February 2008. It's an interesting, 23 minute long story on their "This American Life" show.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources
Simpsons do a nice parody of this.
Just fire them they can get unemployment while they look for another job. if the investigation proves them innocent give them the back pay and make them pay back the unemployment. less burden on the school system and the tax payers, if the accuser was lying press charges and hold the responsible person accountable for the damages they caused, that would be a deterrent to falsely accusing someone. just use the law that exist, get rid of the rubber rooms they serve no purpose, other occupations don't have them why give special privileges to teachers , if they are found guilty do they pay back the money they got while waiting for the conclusion of the investigation? I don't think so! why should we have to pay them? we shouldn't, if they were truly good teachers they would not be in that position, and if charges were filed against people making false accusations you would see that decrease, so dismiss them without pay pending investigation, reinstate with compensation if found innocent of supposed crime / action, reimburse the unemployment, file charges against the accuser and let the courts handle the rest, society has got to stop mismanaging money, and holding the tax payer responsible for every public servant and teacher, you don't see rubber rooms in a McDonalds or at a factory do you, do you have a rubber room where you work? their internal problems should not be the taxpayers burden. sorry but that's the way I feel about it no more special treatment, the teachers are just going to have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. no more free rides.
Buck,,,do you know how stupid you are?? Wonder what you would have to say if you were wrongly
accused? Get out in the real world,,,it happens.
It would be interesting to find out the perccentage of "rubber room" detainees were eventually cleared of charges against them. I suppose keeping instructors on the payroll during due-process investigations might be less costly than handling the backlash of later litigation.
I'm sorry, you'll have to leave Newsvine now. You're threatening people with having to think systemically, rather than just react to circumstance. This kind of thing cannot be tolerated. The door is on your left.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll go on a rant next time.
door on the left...hmmm...exit stage right...poor misguided individual...
keeter - duh, dont you know that this is a clear example of unions destroying america, yet again?
sheesh, it's like there's no making anything simple for "elite thinkers"...but i'll give it a try:
Unions bad, private business good.
it's all we need to know.
@Jessica--So true! *sarc*
My ex-wife is a teacher. Administrators have certain teachers they dislike, parents and students loathe others, and some instructors are jealous of each other. What do you get? The usual workplace soap opera.
Unions aren't much help, especially in right to work states like Arizona. Although state laws protect teachers to a certain degree, even that isn't worth anything when the union itself betrays a member. The president of the Gilbert Education Association president betrayed the National Board Certified Teacher who is being fired by Gilbert Public Schools. A board member posted the following on the Arizona Education Association website about how the association betrayed the teacher:
Betraying teachers hurts students!
I doubt that, paying a dozen people for nothing is just plain stupid, and the back lash should be nothing more than compensating to the penny what was lost and no more, any additional charges should come from anyone that falsely accused someone not the taxpayer. its only a couple of government run professions that have rubber rooms and they need to be shut down. they were a bad idea to start with. at best you give them 30 days severance pay, and the supervisors should have a case by then not years. then let the courts handle it. what I would like to know is just what is the price tag on this program. who is the Idiot that dreamt this one up your fired keep showing up and we will keep paying you BS. Plus Retirement get real. I'll sit in a cubicle for $60 grand+ and a pension.
I refuse to comment on these sites on the grounds it may incrimminate me heh heh. I know they are being watched by our government LOL
My wife was falsely accused by her principal and several other teachers who didn't like her. It started when the state of Texas decided to get rid of any teacher that had a contract that was longer than one year, Though they haven't applied this to administrators. They made claims against her, moved her out of the classroom, and when the claims were proved false she was allowed back in, often for just a few days before one of them would make another claim and out she would go again. She finally got tired of this and took her retirement. There are many other teachers that are having this done to them because the Governor, Perry, and the legislature, Super majority of Republicans, have deided they want this as a way to cut the budget.
But... but... but... unions are the problem! Unions are all bad! If only it weren't for the unions, no administrator of anything would ever become a petty tyrant in an effort to protect himself and his turf from someone with intelligence and ambition, or to stamp out competing opinions, or to protect the bad behavior of his friends. It's always and only the unions and their criminal bosses that do this kind of thing! You must be some kind of communist or terrorist, that's the only reason why that always-good, totally-above-and-beyond-human-foibles administrator isolated your wife. I'm sure she was trying to impose Sharia law on her classroom. After all, she's a teacher, and therefore probably a leftist, which means SURELY she's a muslim and a terrorist!
THE UNION! It's the source of all our problems! Aaaaaahhh!
Sorry... couldn't resist. Very sorry to learn your wife had to put up with this nonsense. Seriously. As a Texas resident I have also seen first-hand the damage the most recent legislature has done. And just to rub our faces in it a bit, Perry spent some $4 million of state money on his Presidential campaign. Think that's ever coming back? Not a chance.
Of course... that can't be a problem because it doesn't have anything to do with a union.
If Perry spent state money on his gtake your evidence to the FBI, or shut up the garbage.
Jack's right. Unions used to be a good thing and take care of everyone when they needed it but now they seem to be run by the opinions of the few over the opinions of the many...does that sound familiar on a political stage? Hmmmm...
Some union reps use their position in the union to curry favor with the administration -- hoping to get a higher paying job as a reward. You have to ask yourself, what did the people in school district administration do to get their jobs if one way to move up is to betray your members? Frightening thought!
Where do problem teachers go?.......The to the Union Hall to "lawyer up"
SO you think if they are accused they don't deserve due process. That is what the "rooms" are for. The problem id that it can be turned into a viscous cycle, see my comment above. One of the other teachers my wife met had been cleared of all charges by a court of law. Yet he is still not allowed into the classroom to teach because the principal does not want him there and won't allow him to be reassigned. So he languishes, getting paid, not doing the job that he loves.
This is absolutely ridiculous- and exactly why the unions have ruined our schools. There are pedophiles counting paper clips in rubber rooms, and they can collect their entire pay for as long as they want, they aren't even forced to retire! And now the unions want to wipe the slate clean for crappy teachers so they can START an evaluation process. Many teachers I know are stoners who are in it for the summer off. Drug test teachers! ANYBODY can get a teaching degree.
Administration could get teachers out of the rubber room by following established procedures to have the teacher fired. Instead teachers languish in the rubber room because administration is either a) too lazy or incompetent to follow established procedure (ie. administrative hearings and/or arbitration), or b) lacks the evidence necessary to prove their case. Administrators are to blame for the rubber room problem, not the teachers.
Spatman...not saying they don't deserve due process, just that due process shouldn't take 5 years. I think 6 months should be more than enough time to get this settled or send them back to the classroom or get them out of the system.
Hey Crystal - I take it you have a couple of degrees - honorary of course. You do realize that only about 20% of Americans have post-high school qualifications.
This is due process and has nothing to do with the education system or unions. If you guys feel like bitchin', take this up with the judicial system. This sort of thing happens everywhere.
Fine shut their pay off, like would happen to anyone else and send them home, when they are cleared, they can come back.
Tired... Try getting a hearing if they claim they have evidence. 1-6 months just for that. If you are wrongly accused and have to go to a court it's easily 1-2 years or more. My wife was with one teacher that just won the case, almost 3 years. SO should she loose her job because you want it to take only 6 months. Try preparing for a trial, interviewing witnesses, ect.
Crystal's right, Pat. I've had teachers who had no business divulging education to young minds because they were hardly smart enough to do anything past follow the chapters and use the book tests as weekly quizzes...they couldn't come up with their own. I finished reading a book one week in 7th grade that I used to read all the time in elementary school and when I told my teacher I needed a new book he asked me if I'd understood everything, I said yes, and he said, 'Well...um...read it again, just to make sure." He couldn't even rev up the old lightbulb enough to ask me an essay question and have me write a paper on it or send me to the library to get a few new books that I'd have had finished by the end of the week. Pure laziness and inability to effectively determine the education his students were supposed to be getting by reading the 7th grade level books. We only did one book report all year and once science presentation all year in his class (combined subjects) and instead of reading Jane Austen, we watched the movies. Snore.
Janus, Really? So they are guilty until proved innocent? That's not the way a society of laws is supposed to work.
I don't understand why teachers get such job protection compared to all the people in the private sector who are "at will" employees. My husband gets excellent reviews on his job evaluations...but he lives with the constant knowledge that he could be laid off any day for any reason or no reason.
His private employer does not even have to state a reason that they are firing an employee -- but it could be office politics, one unexpected crisis that was not handled quickly enough, or a desire to hire new staff in another city or country where salaries are cheaper. The private employer does not have to prove that he was a bad employee -- if they think (rightly or wrongly) that the company will be better off without him, he is gone.
I'm not saying the precariousness of employment in the private sector is ideal. But why should teachers get the opposite scenario -- guaranteed employment unless their employer lays out a legal case that proves incompetence or malfeasance?
You got to consider that a private company can choose to not deal with certain customer, "fire" them in a sense; while teachers don't get to "fire" their students and corresponding parents, they are stuck with them. As much as I disagree with tenure, it seems kinda a fair deal; "if I have to put up with you, you have to put up with me" sorta thing.
Cal_Chi -- Exactly why I enjoy my union job. I have protections from just such things. I take pride in my work and should not have to spend any energy on worrying about my position. I work hard, do quality work, and get paid with great benefits. My employer gladly pays for the quality of work, and my dedication to the job. My employer also agrees that I should have workplace protections in place. My employer also pays me what was negotiated through contract negotiations. Teachers unions and the school districts work just the same, both sides benefit from the contract.
That said, I have seen bad workers fired, rightly so, and the union did not back the workers because there are methods of documentation and reporting for the employers to back their claims. I've also seen workers win their appeals due to things you mention. Protections work both ways in the contracts.
The FEW bad seeds who make national headlines do not make up the whole of the education system, don't indict the whole system for their issues.
Cal_Chi -- Exactly why I enjoy my union job. I have protections from just such things. I take pride in my work and should not have to spend any energy on worrying about my position. I work hard, do quality work, and get paid with great benefits. My employer gladly pays for the quality of work, and my dedication to the job. My employer also agrees that I should have workplace protections in place. My employer also pays me what was negotiated through contract negotiations. Teachers unions and the school districts work just the same, both sides benefit from the contract.
That said, I have seen bad workers fired, rightly so, and the union did not back the workers because there are methods of documentation and reporting for the employers to back their claims. I've also seen workers win their appeals due to things you mention. Protections work both ways in the contracts.
The FEW bad seeds who make national headlines do not make up the whole of the education system, don't indict the whole system for their issues.
So what you want is "guilty until proven innocent?".... My son's an assistant principal in a school district in PA.... he gets teachers "accused" of everything by parents.... so in this case, you want to fire them before finding out the facts?... They have a lawsuit from a parent which has been dragging on about a teacher for more than 5 years... and there are no if's and's or buts... the parents have it in for the teacher.... something about the kid "not making the team".... yea... right.. I'm not saying rubber rooms make sense... but don't just assume that ALL teachers that get sent there are guilty of anything. Get the innocent ones back to teaching and throw the guilty ones out...
Usually, when there's smoke, there's fire.
And we live in a country where you're supposed to be innocent before proven guilty. I've seen too many cases where there was "smoke and fire," and it turned out a bunch of people were fabricated on behalf of the plaintiffs.
People who argue "when there's smoke, there's fire," are often just too lazy to account for all the facts.
Guilt has nothing to do with it when it comes to unions. All union workers are innocent.
Tell that to our judicial system, not me. And you failed to acknowledge that I said "in my experience". It did not say, "my opinion".
Why should schools have different systems to remove bad employees than those surrounding private companies?
Simple answer?------Unions and tenure. Why do you think CA is broke and kids graduate high school that can't read or write? What a joke. It does grab a lot of votes though, if you know what I mean.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that in CA., that over 70% of the state budget goes to the public school system.
My mother lived on a farm and went to school in a one room school house with one teacher for 1 through 8th grade all in the same room. They moved to the city and she graduated from high school, valedictorian. She later went on to graduate from college. Go figure.
Kevin Blitz - you and other people on here have made very valid points about the reality teachers face - sometimes accusations from other teachers, sometimes from students, sometimes from the students parents.
I guess im just wondering how can such a culture exist and be so pervasive? I'm getting closer to the point where I think public education needs to have a major overhaul and be able to operate by the same rules as charter schools - such as kicking out the rotten apple students who are spoiling the bunch, and kicking out kids who's parents seem to think it's everyones job but their own to work towards their childs success. And ultimately, kicking out the teachers who prove nothing but being worthless.
Sure, a few good teachers will be lost due to the typical nature of human beings...and a few good kids will be lost too...but hopefully what will be gained is an appreciation for FREE EDUCATION...and understanding the value that teachers do have in our society.
Rather than CONSTANTLY TEARING THEM DOWN because a few bad apples are spoiling the entire bunch.
I think sometimes, you gotta lose something to truly appreciate it...and im thinking it's time teachers, en masse...just gave up and let the know-it-all parents figure it out.
Schools are political that's a problem, they used to be both conservative and liberal now they are dominated by one side, and war with the other smaller side (notice I'm not stating who is in control, you already know) if you want a workable system we need to gain back the balance, and lay down some rules. this free to do as you damn well please does not work and the back stabbing is appalling, all order is falling apart the masses are supposed to conform to the wants of a few individuals instead of the individuals conforming to a well structured society, the degradation of our society is evident in our school system, the PTA and those Hollywood degenerates that influence our youth. and the students have way to much power, the system is broken. and the sick are running the show.
Teachers are in a unique job that is too sensitive to accusations. Most people accused of something in a job just ignore it. A teacher gets thousands of dollars worth of investigations. Students and Principles know this so they use it to their advantage. This isn't the union's fault because if a teacher committed a crime it is up to the State to prosecute. Never in my days of school did the student have so much power over the teacher.
Why can't the school district make a decision to fire the bad teacher? No other employee waits until the state to prosecute someone to make that determination. It is based on the employers own investigation.
They can. They have to follow the NEGOTIATED contract to do so. No prosecution needed.
As a teacher, I'm ashamed that this is allowed to happen. Teachers who sexually harass students and abuse drugs are kept on payroll?! This country is insane. Fire them. They don't deserve to be in education and they make those of us who take pride in our jobs look bad. Also, as pointed out California doesn't really have money to throw around right now. This money should be put towards something much better, such as improving schools infrastructure, updating their computers, textbooks and facilities.... not paying terrible teachers to sit around and do nothing.
How about random drug testing for all teachers. I know of a few here in my area that use/have used drugs while in a teaching position. I have nothing against people who smoke marijuana, but I think certain jobs (transportation,education) there is a need for testing.
Sure, pink. But are you willing to pay for it?
A couple of weeks ago I was reading about this very same subject. One teacher, accused of "inappropriate contact with a student" hadn't been in a classroom in over 2 years and is drawing a 6 figure paycheck and still stands to get a pension.
To make it worse, some bloggers were defending this action because "it's in the contract". They actually try to justify protecting perverts. I'm sure you can appreciate my disdain over anyone drawing a paycheck when they should actually be in prison.
Please let me know where a public school teacher can draw six figures. I would surely like to apply there. My guess is you are making this up.
Dave - there are teachers in Pennsylvania making 6 figures.
Dave, I have better thing's to do than "make stuff up". It was in a school system in CA. My humble apologies for not recalling the exact school district. The story was on CNN. They cited several instances of teacher salaries from 80k on up. My shop teacher owned his own airplane and one of the P.E. teachers drove a Corvette.
You can think I made this stuff up all you want, it is of no concern of mine. I am merely the messenger.
Dave, please let me know when teachers begin working 2000 hours a year.
Dave,
Look up salaries on-line in Illinois. I know that there are several teachers in my school district that make over $150k/year during their last 2 years prior to retirement with a pension worth over $100k/year. For one district I just looked up, the 90th percentile is $106k/year (for a 9 month job).
Teachers work, in those 10 months, within 1% of the total time a regular full-year private employee works.
Fricsaid,my mechanic drives a corvette. Many teachers have PHD's. How much would they make in the private sector with an equivalent degree. Still, I have been teaching in Massachusetts for over ten years. No teacher here is making 6 figures. You have to go into administration for that.
My wife has her Masters in early childhood development, 14yrs in the district, works on average 50-60hrs/wk during school year, and is required to continue her education at her expense ($3500 every 2yrs approx.) attend professional development outside of school hours, works 4 of the 8 week break, and makes $65,000/yr. Teachers are not overpaid. Teachers have to work with whatever student is put into their classroom. My wife has come home with bruises before from a student assault, and had to continue teaching that student the entire year because they can't remove the student. Teachers get plenty of horrible students, those complaining shouting so loudly about "bad" teachers likely were a bad student or it's their own child. It's not black and white.
armurray, I looked those salaries up online. Look at the line that says "assignment". Anyone making that much money is assigned as an administrator. Yes, they may have a teaching degree, but they are working in administration.
The majority of teachers placed in these rubber rooms are eventually cleared of any charges, but the school systems have to be so leery of lawsuits over frivolous things that they clear the teachers out of the classrooms. They continue to pay them because the teachers would easily counter-sue for being removed from the classroom when indications strongly suggest they've done no wrong.
Mick, you may be right about teachers being cleared, I have never seen anything that reports on this. My question would be, and my wife is a teacher in PS for 25 years, why don't they have them doing something constructive?? Why don't they have them writing curriculum or reviewing at risk kids and working on how better to save them. The idea that they do nothing is strange, even the police, when an officer is taken off the street because of an incident, is put on desk duty. They may not like sitting in the station but they still can provide something useful to the system.
sarg-1000124 wrote: "And people wonder why so many states especially Ca. are broke. Just an example how public unions are raping the taxpayers." +++++ And people probably also wonder why you can't be bothered to check into facts before libeling teachers. As I stated in my last post, most of these teachers have done no wrong but the school systems remove them because there will be lawsuits in the remote chance a teacher is convicted of a charge. Secondly, even counting benefits, the VERY conservative magazine Forbes rates teaching as the 3rd lowest paying profession requiring a college degree even though teachers work an average 300 hrs per year MORE than the typical full time worker. If teaching was so lucrative, why are school systems going to 3rd world countries to recruit teachers because they can't find enough Americans to accept the low level of pay -which is often less than the starting pay for a sanitation worker? 10% of Baltimore's teachers are from the Philippines. With those facts, please explain why you claim the teachers "unions are raping the taxpayers"?
"most of these teachers have done no wrong"
Help me out here Mick. How are you privey to such facts? Or is this merely your opinion that you are mistaking for a fact. I compare that to saying that most in the court system have done no wrong.
In my experience, usually, when there is smoke, there is fire.
He can't. It's just another opportunity for political slandering on his part.
The Mick... my sister is a teacher here in Western PA, and for every job opening there are 40 applicants. There are way more teachers than there are jobs here. Baltimore or other locations that have shortages must be paying way under scale, or have such horrible classroom situations that no sane person would take the job. I believe it is the rule of supply and demand: where they need teachers, the pay will go up; where there are more teachers than job, the pay will go down. ( Outside of union contracts, that is ).
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California is the same to the rest of the USA as Greece to the EU. The best way to solve both situations is to let them go bankrupt and straighten up their own messes. Unfortunately, the US will probably do the same as the EU and throw good money after bad. The California mess will cost a lot more than Greece though, and both 'fixes' will only prolong the agony by delaying the inevitable.
California's problems are a prime example of what happens when the Dems are in control for too long. I know they had a Repub governor but a real left wing congress was in charge.
California before the crash was the 5th largest economy in the world, and paid more into the federal government than they received from it. Let's say, we give them all the money the feds took from them between 2001 and 2008 and then cut them loose!
Pat- Yes, they paid in a lot, with the largest population, they should. But, they were also taking a lot back at that time and becoming dependent on federal handouts and welfare. Now, they are bleeding the rest of the country dry with no end in sight. Businesses are bailing out at a crazy amount. They are forcing the trucking industry to close shop or move with their insane regulations. When they have all closed or left, there will be no one to move products to market, so the farmers may shut down and go on the dole too. They will have to hit bottom before they can start to move forward again.
Glen Beck belongs in a real rubber room.
I find it ironic that such a place would be called the 'rubber room'. And these teachers still get paid...to do nothing??? That's an insult to the victims of their crimes, whatever those may be.
Instead of being placed in a room doing nothing, why don't they used these teachers productively....looking at curriculum, helping with paperwork, etc.?
Slow, drawn out process benefits teacher and UNION but costs taxpayers who are paying for the replacement teacher as well as the suspended teacher. This is legalized "rip-off".
RuBBBer RooooM !HA HA HA! Is this what our educated idiots can think of! I thought the banks did that with your account! OR recalled condoms from Africa are stored! RuBBBer RoooM! HAH!Like to see the one who thought that one UP! Is that where you put all the PRICKS! HAH!
RUBBBER ROOOM! TimeOut, TimeOut,TimeOut! JOHNY, GO To THE RUBBER ROOOM! Class Carry ON! HAH! theres no homework! MR. Johny's GONE! HaHaHaHa!
i thought that was the bath room at a gas station...
The contract needs to state that if you are removed from a classroom you need to perform actual work for the school.
That is grading papers, making copies, proctoring exams...
There is no reason they can't do something.
He was told not to let it out about the reading level otherwise other LA schools would want to know why his school was so high as most in LA read at a first-grade level...........You overachievers.
Well, we've been blamed for segegating the blacks, bashing the gays,stomping on women's rights! NOW! Do you beleive it! WE're putting our Teachers in a RUBBER ROOM! WOOOW! what next!
The sad part is I'm sure there is plenty of real work that the teachers could be doing while in time-out. But let's not use our brains or anything. Maybe we need to hire our principals from the prison industry. They sure wouldn't have a problem exploiting this down time.
I'm mean, if we're going to have such a stupid practice then the tax payers should at least get their moneys worth.