Therein lies the tragedy. We consider children, legally and ethically, as "property" of their parents. Why is the burden of proof so high that virtually ANYTHING an adult does to a child is ok as long as the adult gets some kind of "help". Where is the help for the abused, tortured and neglected children who actually LIVE through these years? These children never should have been put back in a home unsupervised, with documented abuse.

Courts acting for the benefit of a child is a crock. When will courts/family agencies realize that some people are not parent material, ie returning children to dangerous environments, or returning adopted children to people who gave them up for whatever reason and change their minds after the child has bonded with adoptive parents? Just because two people make a child it does not equate to making a good parent. How many kids are traumatized/killed/injured before those charged with protecting children reprogram their collective heads.

During that time, the parents had been evaluated, done anger management and domestic violence classes, and received therapy.

I'm curious as to what form of "therapy" was used to cure this animal's pedophilia?

“You have to be very, very sure when you’re going to, as a state agency, remove children from a family permanently. And you have to convince a judge. And these children had been out of the house for a year and a half.”

Really, "very, very"? The agency had evidence enough that resulted in the children being rescued from their parents...they were "very, very" sure before. I might be making some assumptions here, but it didn't seem to me that anyone fought for the kids' safety once the parents had been in the system and supposedly working the program. What kind of woman stays with her abusive husband that purportedly "forced" her to fondle her own children? What kind of system thinks those two parents are any kind of healthy after just 18 months of therapy and should be given another chance?

“Our focus is on this child’s near-term and long-term needs,” he said of the surviving brother.

Shouldn't that have been the focus all along for both brothers and now one is dead? The social experiment conducted on this family resulted in horrifying disaster. Child molesters and abusers don't wake up one day after 18 months and say "sheesh, what was I thinking, glad I'm healed". Shame on everyone.

One child is dead and one is left scarred for life. Grade "F" failure.

This takes disgusting to a new level. Is there zero common sense at DCF??? I live in Florida and this has to be one of the worst things DCF has done. Unbelievable and shocking, to put it mildly. Apparently all our Florida government employees share one brain and the person working this case did not have access to it. Come on DCF - DO YOUR JOB AND PROTECT THE CHILDREN FROM MONSTERS LIKE THIS!!!

Children are chattel . They belong to their parents and their parents are allowed to raise them as they see fit. In Washington State there is no law mandating the age a child can be left alone. I personally have called CPS about a 5 yr old being left alone all day while Mom was at work. Was told it was legal and Mom came to my home and told me to mind my own business when I offered to let her child stay at my house while she worked . No charge. Check your state law. Best interest of the child is almost always what the parents say until there is a tragedy.

DCF is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. One, if they take the kids they have tons of people mad because they violated parents rights. Two, if the kids get hurt or killed you have a different (or probably the same) group mad because they gave the kids back. Its a no win situation for everyone. That is one of the jobs I would not do.

WTF!!! This makes me so angry!!! Is everyone going crazy? Why were these poor kids allowed with these people? I don't understand why these sick evil people are allowed to even breathe the same air as the rest of us who place value in our children and in life. And I don't give a crap why they were doing it. It needs to stop and that is what DCF is for! Someone knew something wasn't right and let it continue until it was too late. What a travesty!!!

There are some very good posts here. People get it. Another sad, pathetic story on social services and the courts. Was it last week or two weeks ago that some "dad" blows himself and his two children to "Kingdom Come?" You know, in many states, the job of "social services" gets contracted out to private companies. They too have their way of allowing children into the homes of perverts and convicted perverts.

There is no cure for creatures like this. The Commonwealth of Virginia, I was reading the other day, has been convinced by a group of "therapists" that there is. The tax-payers of Virginia are now paying $150,000 per head per year for hundreds who are getting the "professional cure." This reminds me of the 1960s when the parents of these same therapists were selling the states on the idea that they could empty their prisons through their "therapeutic" methods.

The courts are of no help. A slap, a few years in jail, then these monsters are back on the streets, most avoiding the mandated "registration" and repeating in a more violent manner until death.

One in four girls in America under the age of 18 has been reported to have been sexually abused. That is only the number reported. There is no report that I have seen pertaining to innocent male children.

So? We post, we complain, we empathize with their plight. If we cannot get out there and fight this fight first hand, the very least we can do is support those few groups in America who are fighting to save children. There are a few who do more than just suck-up contributions. One that I appreciate is Focus Adolescent Services, www.Focusas.com There are others, find one and send them a few dollars. No not "Text Haiti" where your ten bucks has gone unused, send it to a group who does as they say. One who will squeeze a nickel into a dime.

the agency decides what the judge is going to rule, so they do not bring it to a judge to decide; does anyone not see the ridiculous statement this is ?

They need to fix the almost universal problem of the spouse "Recanting" by applying perjury status to it. This happens way too often where the spouse gets up the nerve to make the accusation but in the days and weeks following ends up recanting her statement due to outside pressure or the belief that the perpetrator has "changed" or they have such low self esteem that they believe they'll be alone and never find some one else.

Upfront it may seem cruel to have them serve some jail time but if they tie it to some social services it might stop things like this from happening so often.

I was one of the commenters who was against allowing the Powell boys to be allowed (forced, actually) to visit their father (who had disturbing incestuous images on his computer, and was the only suspect in the murder of their mother). For those here who don't know how THAT turned out, he hacked them up with a hatchet and burned the house down, killing all three of them. Oh, the arguments we had back and forth with those who said, "He hasn't been convicted of anything yet, he still has 'rights'." Well, here we go again with another experiment. Let's see how THIS turns out. What the hell, the price of making a mistake is only the lives of a couple of kids, right?

And again I say...BRING ON THE BIRTH CONTROL. People like this should NEVER reproduce. They shouldn't even be allowed to own a freakin hamster.

The root of the problem is WHY most bodies of family law are designed the way they are. In part it does have to do with the hangover of "children as chattel" issue, BUT it ALSO has to do with republican aversion to ANY taxpayer money being spent too support ANYBODY who isn't a milliionaire. The goal of family law is to keep people OFF the backs of the taxpayers, at almost ANY cost, and hide it behind "preserving families". That's way familiy and divorce lawyers will tell you, first, NEVER get married, and then if you DO get married, NEVER have children in case of divorce, and third, if you DO get married, AND have children, and contemplait a divorce, what til the last kid is 18, because otheriwse YOU will be paying thru the nose for years.

Y'all have to realize something. DCF here in Florida is a joke. I was once investigated for my son abusing an imaginary friend. No, I'm not making that up. The allegation the caseworker said she was investigating involved my daughter. I don't have a daughter.

What response is there? Really? Take the kid, fine, but take the kid to what? There are good foster parents, but there is a significant chunk of them who have no idea how to deal with a kid that is now abandoned by their parents....if they even have a foster home to go to. There just is really no good answer for this.....you could go to IL where they have a guilty till proven innocent system where children are taken away for being spanked, and the parent is responsible to prove the intent of the spank is to correct a childs behavior (legal) instead of to inflict pain (illegal).

It's just all messed up when there is a person, who is a parent, when they don't want to be. This is another sad case of a problematic human state, but unless someone knows how to do this better, without damaging a larger number of children (and if you take a child away from non-abusive parents, placing them into foster lacking any love for that child, you are aggregiously damaging that child, abandonment by one's parents is as damaging as most mild/mid serious physical abuse.)

I'm not condoning abuse by any means, but it is not always that easy. The law in a free society cannot predict the future, it cannot stop all horrors of the world from happening, sometimes in a country of 300,000,000 people crazy people do crazy stuff. If you want the state to get more involved in the raising of children (under the banner of protection, the same banner every tyrannt in history uses) then you are nuts, waiting for that day your kid breaks his arm and your getting the third degree from some government subcontractor who gets paid by the amount of abuse they uncover, and they question and question your kid over and over and they don't ask what happened, they ask did mommy or daddy do this? Does daddy hit you? And the kid is 3 and gets spanking when he's bad.....that happened to my cousin and it was 3 months and $15k+ in legal bills before he got his son back (all charges dropped, an apology from the judge, ect...but they sure didn't pay for the lawyer)

Did FL do everything right? By no means, but seriously, there was no credible witness to the sexual abuse, there was a history of physical abuse, but the parents had made by the above account every effort to correct this (anger management does help a bunch of people, but crazy is tough to fix, it's unfortunately also tough to detect). How is this corrected? 1 family in FL, how many families do you think have similar histories? More than most people would like to admit. People do change, people do grow up and improve, they become better parents/people, the state has to take that into account. They screwed up, but reading some 1 page story does not give anyone enough real info to make an informed decision on what should have happened before you knew what would happen....the story never gets written about the kid who was returned to his parents after some physical abuse and his parents learned ways to cope with the frustration of parenthood and did not hit their child anymore.....I can guarantee you there are many more of those stories than these.

All this vitriol spewed all over the agency... I find it hard to believe you people have any left for the man who is actually guilty in this case. I understand being frustrated with the system, I really do. But, blame for this heinous act rest squarly on the shoulders of one man - yet I see very little said about/against him here. One man did this. One man is responsible. The system failed to stop him, for whatever reason, but if he had not done what he did... He is ultimately responsible. It seems in the rush to find others to should the blame and assuage your feelings of helplessness, that fact is getting a bit lost.

Athyna is right, down here in FLA DCF is a joke and is constantly putting children in the wrong hands whether it be their crazy parents or crazy foster parents! It's sick and the entire organization needs to be dismantled and try again with competent people. Remember the little girl that died last year after her foster parents poured chemicals over her body and tried to kill her twin brother as well? What was DCF's agent response to the judge? It was Friday night I had things to do. Pffft.

What MSNBC has FAILED to mention in this article is not only did this POS kill his child and himself, he killed the guy that lived in that RV. That man was in his home minding his business, down here on vacation and here comes this crazy a_— 3rd world piece of crap barging in his home and kills him. SMH

There was a great deal of evidence against this monster they had to call a father (or Monster Jackson). When a 9-year-old barely speaks, something is seriously wrong. When the mother said they did it, that should have been enough. It doesn't matter that she recanted. You know he threatened her. They should not have been put back. The CPS should be held accountable.

This case just proves what I've always believed. You need a license to own a dog, but any moron can be a parent.

But of course, this is coming from the same state that produced Casey Anthony..so go figure.

I am so baffled on laws that pertain to children.

You have to be proven to be an absolute MONSTER before you kids can be taken away, but not only that, but once you are proven to be a monster, you are left intact to continue breeding! There is a point in time, that protecting children should be more important than to allow people who are like this to continue to breed. Seriously, certain parties want to control reproductive rights to "protect" fetuses, but when it comes to protecting CHILDREN, they want government out of people's business!

THIS WHOLE THING HAS ME LIVID. Also, why is the man not in prison? Did I gloss over that part somehow??

He died...but she should be locked up!

Kristie Foreman, he's dead, he went into a strangers' home, killed him, killed one of the sons, and himself.

Screwdallas2, you wrote:

"Did FL do everything right? By no means, but seriously, there was no credible witness to the sexual abuse, there was a history of physical abuse..."

There was a credible witness, an investigator for the DCF witnessed the father touch the younger child's penis, noted the father grabbing the boys' crotches, and violently kissing them, all during a supervised visitation. If the father was willing to do this much while being watched, what would he be capable of with no watchful eyes? I think that person was probably the most credible witness that DCF could have ever hoped for.

Screwdallas2, you went on to write:

"People do change, people do grow up and improve, they become better parents/people, the state has to take that into account."

You're right, certain behaviors can change and people can learn and be better humans. Yet, studies and statistics have proven that pedophiles cannot be cured...and they don't stop. They had a witness to abuse and that wasn't enough? There is no justification for ignoring all the evidence and assuming that because the parents had played the game for 18 months, that they should somehow be rewarded, forgiven even, and that the boys would be safe to return home with them.

That the mother recanted her confession to being part of the sexual molestation of her own children is par for the course. She was either so abused and completely brainwashed by her husband thus did whatever he told her to do OR she was a willing participant. Either way, she was not a fit parent, even if she'd left him. Her mom card should have been pulled for life the moment she let her husband hurt her children.

I don't know what kind of fact finding mission the DCF conducted before deciding they just didn't have enough evidence to keep the boys from being returned to their parents. I don't know what kind of judge, even if he'd read a glowing recommendation that the parents were now safe, couldn't burn such a report and rule in favor of keeping the boys out of the clutches of their sick parents.

All of us are guilty at one time or another of trying to justify not doing the right thing when the opportunity presented itself. DCF is trying to justify their actions and they're not justified. Period.

Mrcool above this post had it right. We can rage against the system or we can do something about it. We can armchair quarterback and wish for a different outcome. But the only way to facilitate change is to first make the decision to do something about it. Mrcool's suggestion to find an organization to financially support childrens' rights is the best idea presented on this blog.

My prayers are with these boys but my money's gonna work to make a difference.

No offense to any good foster parents out there, but have you seen the statistics on Foster Home Kids?

There is plenty of risk in taking kids and putting them in Foster Homes.

In this case they simply didn't have any corroborating evidence.

You know, like a neighbor, teacher or doctor who is independant that claimed they witnessed something or heard something.

There is never going to be some perfect system that prevents all crimes.

As for children being the property of the parents, insofar as citizens are the property of the Gov't.

But property isn't the right word.

And keep in mind that if the Gov't takes my kids - well, have you ever seen a Lion protect her cubs? A bear? Even a lowly scorpion with their babies on their back? What do you think they WOULDN"T DO to stop their offspring from being taken away?

It's human nature. Heck, even some insects feel the same way.

So yes, it takes actual proof to remove kids. And people are innocent until proven guilty. We already bend that one when it comes to child protective services - though it violates the US Constitution.

So the best thing you can do is to be vigilant about any sort of abuse. Your eyes and ears can save a kid's life. And your kids can as well - they may know things that happen to other kids at their school or neighborhood that no adult is privy to.

I hope someone makes untrue allegations against you, ones that could destroy your life, much less get your children taken from you. I'm frelling tired of people like you that would rather be "safer than sorry" when it comes to ripping apart children from their parents. They're not safe when they're in foster care, when it comes to Child Protective Services, even infants die in their care from battering and the like.

Wouldn't that be so wonderful? Someone says bullcrap on you to hurt you, and then they take your kids away, then the child DIES in foster care where you can't do anything to stop it. It's a nightmare several COMPETENT parents have had to endure, and people like you are the ones that want to make it an accepted way of life. People like you folks are the worst... if you think it's such a tragedy, why don't you close YOUR legs and start adopting those poor kids instead of saying every child should be ripped away from their parents over every BS claim?

Innocence Destroyed. Google it, Youtube it, watch it, whatever. Then hopefully feel guilt over the fact you'd rather send children to their deaths and judge several innocent people guilty rather than be "innocent until proven guilty", you unamerican fools.

In 2008, Beauchamp "reported a history of domestic violence with the children's father for the last eight years," investigators wrote, and said that she was forced to sexually abuse them, fearing that DeJesus "would kill her if she did not fondle the children" with him.

Forced? Chickens*** POS pathetic simpleton worthless life-form. I would take the prison sentence for murdering him for even THINKING the thoughts of touching my children. Another example of a worthless parent putting their own safety before that of their children. POS.

So a person can be convicted to life in prison on only circumstantial evidence in this country, and yet you need to be "really really" sure in order to protect a child from being killed/tortured/molested? Freakin BSis what it is. Typical governmental red tape. I hate politics and every politician can burn for all i care.

ThaMonkeh,

I know you don't mean it when you wrote that you hoped someone made untruthful allegations against whomever it was you were posting to.

It sounds to me as though you have personal and painful experience in dealing with the system and if that's true, I'm really sorry. False allegations are made by family members for a lot of different reasons, and I can't even begin to understand what a parent who has had a child taken away for no legitimate reason must go through. It often takes months, even years, to return such children and by that time, the damage is done. The parent is justifiably angry and biased against the system that failed. The children are irreparably harmed and that's the saddest outcome. People who make false allegations should be criminally prosecuted.

When children die at the hands of whomever is taking care of them, it's tragic. I don't care if it's the parents, extended family, foster, or adoptive parents. It's sick and depraved. The son said it best, his father was a monster.

But the intent of this story was to point out the failings of the system in this particular case, though, when there was ample proof that the parents were not only unfit, but dangerous. The mother acknowledged she participated in the molestation of her children out of fear for her life. I don't give her a pass on that excuse and that she later recounted means little to me either. There was a DCF investigator who witnessed molestation behavior. The father was emotionally and physically abusive to his wife and children.

People's outrage sometimes goes overboard but their outrage over the incredibly short-sighted decision to return the boys to their parents is palpable because a child died.

There's a whole lot of anger and shoulda-woulda-coulda opinions. The DCF in question cannot right this wrong. The judge cannot undo his gavel motion to return the children. Because a child is dead, people are mad as hell.

ThaMonkeh,

I know you don't mean it when you wrote that you hoped someone made untruthful allegations against whomever it was you were posting to.

It sounds to me as though you have personal and painful experience in dealing with the system and if that's true, I'm really sorry. False allegations are made by family members for a lot of different reasons, and I can't even begin to understand what a parent who has had a child taken away for no legitimate reason must go through. It often takes months, even years, to return such children and by that time, the damage is done. The parent is justifiably angry and biased against the system that failed. The children are irreparably harmed and that's the saddest outcome. People who make false allegations should be criminally prosecuted.

When children die at the hands of whomever is taking care of them, it's tragic. I don't care if it's the parents, extended family, foster, or adoptive parents. It's sick and depraved. The son said it best, his father was a monster.

But the intent of this story was to point out the failings of the system in this particular case, though, when there was ample proof that the parents were not only unfit, but dangerous. The mother acknowledged she participated in the molestation of her children out of fear for her life. I don't give her a pass on that excuse and that she later recounted means little to me either. There was a DCF investigator who witnessed molestation behavior. The father was emotionally and physically abusive to his wife and children.

People's outrage sometimes goes overboard but their outrage over the incredibly short-sighted decision to return the boys to their parents is palpable because a child died.

There's a whole lot of anger and shoulda-woulda-coulda opinions. The DCF in question cannot right this wrong. The judge cannot undo his gavel motion to return the children. Because a child is dead, people are mad as hell.

Everyone's saying either that there WAS or that there WAS NOT ample proof. . . if said proof was never subjected to review via a formal hearing, then we can't really say. I have been involved in what some people call "parent's rights" (in fact, children's rights, but that's another topic) but I find the agency statements begging a lot of credibility. For one thing, even in FL (which has made great strides in reforming child welfare, BTW) agencies rarely, if ever, have to be "really really certain" in order to take or retain custody of children. Once the system is involved, its weight tilts heavily toward the government, and (in fact) legal standards of proof are very low compared to criminal proceedings. Sounds like for whatever reason, they just never bothered to prepare their case. . . if the kids were away from the parents as long as it appears they were, there would have been pressure (based on state laws passed to implement federal requirements) to petition for termination or else establish "compelling reasons" to keep the kids in foster care but not terminate rights--or else pass the abll altogether and return the kids. It may be that they really dropped the ball with the recantation (e.g. for a mother to make such statements and then recant raises huge flags--either statements are true and the situation is bad, or else they are not true and the situation is bad for some other reason). I do know that when social services agencies seriously bungle a case (and they often do) and are not able to pull the wool over the eyes of the court (which, most of the time, they are able to do) they will do anything to avoid going into court. Having seen my own child go into foster care twice, each time ultimately followed by the most amazing reversals by the agency simply to keep the juvenile court for catching on, my own experience is that there is not a lot of professionalism in these organizations.

Horrifying as this tale is, the worst mistake one could make would be to look at it, rather than thousands of cases nobody hears or cares about, as the true face of the system.

If a DCF investigator witnessed molestation, what the heck happened to that evidence? Was there some serious problem with the witness' claim? DCF officials pretty much get a free pass when it comes to the credibility department, so if they had that I find it very hard to believe a judge would not have ruled against reunification. I'll bet anything they dropped the legal ball and are trying to hide the fact.

Since when is stabbing children not enough "proof" to remove children permanently? With their "standards', they would probably say Casey Anthony could be a foster parent and/or adopt kids, since she got off after killing her daughter.

OK, this story is from Feb. 9, the "monster dad" is has been dead since then, how is this news today ?

On the night of Feb. 9, DeJesus, of Port Orange, drove his family into the Highland Woods RV park in Deerfield Beach, where he shot a Canadian man twice, killing him, before he went into the man’s home and ultimately stabbed his wife, his sons and himself, according to the Broward Sheriff’s Office. His standoff with a SWAT team lasted six hours.

Beauchamp, 37, and their 7-year-old son survived and are recovering, and DeJesus, 41, and their 9-year-old son died.

The "monster dad" if anyone, was DeJesus, and he's dead, end of story. Tragic that he was allowed to get to the children, however there was not enough evidence to take away custody.

OH, I understand, MSNBC is just now able to figure this story out, this killing happened TWO WEEKS AGO. The man had been with his family for over six months. I guess Florida is just figuring out that six months of follow up is just not enough in some situations. Like maybe involving teachers, others who have regular contact with the family would be a good idea. (I know I know, government involvment... blah blah blah) However, since we are trying to save the lives of children, it might be a good idea to get everyone involved. As the saying goes, "It takes a village to raise a child."

So you are saying the government has the right and responsibility to take the children from a home even after the complainant tells them "I made up the entire affair"?

So now we convict on a statement they are telling you is false? Maybe every worker in this area should be equipped with mind reading capabilities to prevent this from happening.

R. Scalzo, is it better to be safe now, or sorry later? It is bad enough when GROWN men/women will side with their S.O.'s who are abusive because of fear/low self-esteem//retribution perpetrated by the abuser, let alone a child. Evaluations can always be done concerning the appropriate authorities, and come to a conclusion based on ALL evidence. Move on from there as far as letting the matter drop or persue other legal options as to the safety/concern for the victim (if that is the case) AND the abuser. There has been TOO many cases where children go back to ausive parents because there 'wasn't enough evidence.' NOTHING can be done afterwards, other than hearing people say, ' Why wasn't this tragedy stopped?'

There have been stories on MSNBC of Child Services having to return children because they went in w/ only the scantest evidence and followed the "better safe than sorry" approach. The usual comments on those Newsvine threads are to call Child Service employees Nazis and jack-booted thugs who trample on our rights and the Constitution.

ETA: Double post - sorry.

Bizzer, most people do not 'know' or don't care to know about the Child Welfare System (which includes fostercare), do not know or understand that most of these State agencies, including the private ones, are understaffed, have a huge 'workload' of cases, and have a very strict Federal/State guidelines to follow. Children are falling through the cracks on a daily basis concerning problems with the parent(s), and most don't see the information of such cases and can not comprehend the magnitude of tragedy that happens every day, that ISN'T in the News. Of course people are going to jump on the agencies because they feel these 'professionals' should know better, and yes some agencies are appalling as far as the welfare of the child is concerned, but their handling of cases can only go so far, and in the end, the courts mostly side with the parent(s) to keep the 'family unit' together through every means possible till it has become unattainable. In the end, it is still the child who suffers because 'legally' they do not have a voice.

Well...there were 4 people involved...2 parents, 2 kids. Only two are dead...I think the high burden of proof requires more than a measley two dead out of four, don't you? We are talking about "high" burden here, after all.

I'm betting that this "mother" gets custody of this surviving young son once it's all said and done too!

My folks were abusers all my life - I originally left home at 16 - did well for myself but am sick with Lupus now. I'm a Christian and a forgiving woman. I'm now 41 years old, needed a place to stay for a little while, not forever, just briefly (2 weeks) - GUESS WHAT? My parents are STILL abusive! There is no cure. What I learned from them and what I hope this young boy learns is to treat his children the exact opposite of how he has been treated!

I hope the State workers can learn finally - there is NO Cure.

draginfly,

My thoughts and prayers are with you. My personal belief is that forgiveness for another person doesn't let the offender off the hook. Rather, it means that the person no longer has the ability to affect how you live the rest of your life. Forgiving the other person means that they no longer have power over you. I hope you live a long, long time, that you find happiness. I pray that you never again have to waste one more moment of your precious life hating your parents or wishing you'd had a better mom and dad. That ship sailed and you aren't on it! Lucky girl!

The fact that you're still here is testatment to your strength and resiliance. I'm in awe and I wish you all the best.

This desire to reunite families despite the possible danger to the children is not just ridiculous but borders on criminally negligent.

We will be hearing more about this story, and it will be tragic.

What we will hear is wrongfull death suits and someone trying to profit fromm this tradgedy.

You can leave New Age and hippie out of this...you have no clue. This has nothing to do with either one of them.

Kathryn, I just cannot believe you. After all, Oklahoma cares so much about children that they are trying to grant them personhood status at the time of conception. There is no way they care more about the living children than the unborn and they care so much about the unborn that they want to overturn a woman's right to her body.

sleepinsadie

Sarcasm: Right?

nope! truthful facts

I live in Oklahoma also, we have had MORE children placed back with family only to be killed in just a short time than you can imagine. And Yes we are more worried about embryos, than the children who are already here. I am not talking one or 2 children either being killed. 1 was a vets daughter that was killed by her step father and mother while he was serving in Iraq, one was granted custody in OKC and that weekend killed her. The county that I live in had one child returned to his mom and her boyfriend killed him within a month. There is another case being heard now about a Indian little girl who was killed also. These are ones that come to mind, I could go on and on. Oklahoma DHS has been CLEARED in every case. And don't forget the Powell boys in Washington state that had visistation with their Dad and he killed them and then killed himself, the mothers body has never been found in that case (Susan Powell).

The problem is everywhere not just in one state. People keep talking about the "rights of the parents", what about the children's rights to be in a safe and loving environment without being fearful. It's sick that these kinds of people are everywhere. More people are needed to review the cases and a little more common sense needs to be used when it comes to certain cases. It's true that common sense isn't common anymore. Prayers go out to that little boy.

Well...with only one dead out of two, can't be sure about the 'clear and convincing' part...they're looking into it to see.....expect some results in a couple of years...or, maybe never.

Real easy to make that statement "AFTER THE FACT". How about mom telling them I made the entire thing up and nothing happened. No physical evidence, no statements. But march in and take the kids???

That won't cause issues. How about the parents take the fall on this as it should be. Stop whining that the government doesn't see that your lives are just fine.

Gee... how long do you figure it will take before the Westborough Baptists protest THIS funeral?

I'm getting sick of the BS that the government is responsible for bringing up everyone's kids. A government employee must oversee any kid that might have a tough life. where's all these costs coming from? Do we increase the government's budgets to hire the hundreds of thousands it's going to take?

All so some dirt bag parent can swear that she isn't being abused and the kids are fine. Let's spent thousands upon thousands investigating the private lives of everyone so these losers can be parents. How about dumping the blame on those responsible.

You are NEVER going to stop these things from happening. The government cannot watch every kid in a hope that they are safe. Meanwhile we make hero's of these lowlifes on national tv with a national tv program that people love. But when it turns sour, blame the government. Take a hint. The government isn't there to raise your kids.

But if you want to try, just repeal all of their rights under the
constitution to allow unrestricted access to their lives. That went well for a week after the WTC bombing, then everyone went back to the old ways. Just allow arrest and conviction with no evidence. See, that was easy.

I love how so many are more than willing to say others have no rights, then whine when they are the slightest bit inconvenienced.

You noticed that too, huh?

One down, one to go. Don't worry, they'll find a judge to turn the surviving kid back over to the parents to finish the job.

He stabbed his entire family, and HIMSELF. He died as did one of his sons.

On the night of Feb. 9, DeJesus, of Port Orange, drove his family into the Highland Woods RV park in Deerfield Beach, where he shot a Canadian man twice, killing him, before he went into the man’s home and ultimately stabbed his wife, his sons and himself, according to the Broward Sheriff’s Office.

Why is this man not in prison?He shoots a stranger,then proceeds to stab the man's wife and 2 sons-killing 2 people?Never mind him getting his kids back-but according to this article-unless it was poorly written-he is a murderer!

Ok-never mind-could this article be any more convoluted?

Agree with everyone's comments. If this person has already murdered someone.. than he has forfeited his rights to be a parent. What's happening to this country?????

Actually, it's easier just to kill the kids and get it over with.....

According to the story, the father is dead.

He killed the stranger right before stabbing himself and his family.

Poorly written article. You need a better editor as well. Isn't there supposed to be someone who catches these mistakes before you publish?

What is the matter with you people, he does not deserve to be in prison, he deserves to be executed, problem solved.

@ my2fish: Read the next couple of lines! The man IS dead, as well as one of the children he stabbed. Jeez.

I don't understand what you people don't get. What is convoluted about it? It spells it right out for everyone. The wacko killed a man, took his family into said killed man's home, and proceeded to stab his entire family as well as himself. The wife and one kid survived. The man and another child died of their stab wounds. This is pretty simple stuff if you just read it.

I agree CaptBgnDwn... I always try to put out my application to be an editor for this site but it is usually met with"don't be so critical of the writers" blah blah blah... There karear is two right... Y cant' day doo they're jobz?

It LOOKS like the man killed the Canadian.. .walked into the Canadian's house and killed THAT family THEN killed himself. VERY Poorly written. I wonder how long until it's corrected this time.

MSNBC I'm available to edit! I'll even do it for cheap!!!

Agree with everyone's comments. If this person has already murdered someone.. than he has forfeited his rights to be a parent. What's happening to this country?????

Did you read the article at all? He killed the man minutes before the others.

How about the part that says in the released DCF records DeJejus was accused of stabbing and assaulting his wife previously? You'd think that would be enough of a trigger to remove the children until his wife was no longer willing to live with him. Just what does a six month follow up entail? If it doesn't mean someone's not checking in with the family every day, in cases like this, nothing else is good enough.

If hiring more trained workers will help then I'm all for tax dollars being used this way.

What about the part that comes from the released DCF records that state the father had previously stabbed and assaulted the mother? If that isn't a trigger to remove the kids from the home until the mother refuses to live with the (dangerous) father, what is? Just what does a six month follow up entail? If it doesn't have unannounced visits from DCF every week in cases like this,than not enough is being done.

If hiring more trained workers helps, than I'm all for tax dollars being used this way.

Whoops! Sorry when I was editing the 1st comment I had the back button and my first post had disappeared then mysteriously appeared.

I found this article to be poorly written also. Especially the line: "he shot a Canadian man twice, killing him, before he went into the man's home and ultimately stabbed his wife, his sons and himself."

If anyone is clear on whose wife and whose sons, you have powers that most of us lack. There is nothing that indicates who was stabbed. The only thing I was fairly certain of was that the Canadian man was shot and killed, and De Jesus stabbed himself, and that's only clear by process of elimination. And, nowhere does it say he took his own family into the Canadian man's home.

Really bad writing and editing.

Katherine-2967321 - the article is poorly written. The guy took his family into the Canadian man's home who is down here on vacation (Canadians are usually here for a span of 3-4 months "snow-bird season"), he killed the Canadian man then proceeded to stab his own family. What has not been clear is if the special needs kid died or the other child. Not that it makes any difference at all because a child died at the hands of his pathetic loser of a father, but again this story failed to mention that one of the children was a special needs child which makes it even more sick to think they molested their own special needs child. These are two very sick individuals and I personally think that the mother should serve some time for her part in these crimes against her own children. They should reach up and rip out her uterus so she NEVER can have another child. The father was a coward and part of me wishes he didn't kill himself. He should have been publicly shamed for his crimes and THEN taken out behind the courthouse and let a firing squad have at him.

Fortunately, the father killed himself - he should have done that a long time ago. It's a tragedy that he took his own child and an innocent vacationer with him.

I am curious as to who gets custody of the surviving child. I really hope it isn't the mother.

Good question. Why are the rabid pro-lifers not adopting the foster children?? They are so adamant that women should put babies up for adoption rather than having an abortion. So why are they then not adopting these children? And that means minority and disabled babies too. I know there are a few who do and that's great. But 99% of the rabid pro-lifers would rather just foam at the mouth about it than actually do anything positive to back up their beliefs.

Word.

Life is life. The fact many people nowadays find their crotch urges and lifestyles tantamount to adult responsibiity and actually embracing being a father or mother is ON THEIR OWN SHOULDERS.

Focus your anger on the actual bad people, not for good-intentioned organizations and others that have always said to live a moral and responsible life.

Called you out on your inherent bias/bigotry against anti-abortion or Catholic citizens.

Kate - they are probably all following in line with celebrities and adopting kids from other countries. So sad.

Oh, come on, Kate... Think about it. Just because these pro-lifers want to tell women what they can do with their bodies, doesn't mean they want to be responsible for the RESULTS.

Crusading for an embryo or fetus is easy, since it's still inside the mother. Once it's OUT, now it's a resource drain and it's someone else's problem.

Oh, and Stop the Bs? It's not bias/bigotry when you call out so-called "moral, responsible" groups on their own hypocrisy.

So because you're not getting the level of outrage you require from a certain political demographic, it is not that demographics fault that children in this country get abused? Such a bizarre comment, laughable almost, and cements why I would never associate myself with this ilk.

Once someone cites "that person/problem should have been aborted", you have sunk to the level of wishing someone were killed. And to think only the sinful homosexual and liberal agenda like to throw "judge not lest ye be judged" thing in your face...but they have no problem judging seemingly non-liberals or those against homosexual activities...or in this case, anyone is expendable (just get them while still in the womb and celebrate it as "women's choice.")

Pathetically unethical and amoral.

Mike, A women choice is before she has unprotected sex with someone that she doesn"t want to have children with. Your choice is to make proper decisions before a life is made. Maybe the gays will make some spit babies. Why it is always th BS that it a womens body and she gets to chose, no one seems to have any personal responsibility anymore.

Jeez, it is not that simple. I wish it was, but unfortunately it is not. Until you work in that system you do not know what you are talking about. Yes, there needs to be a complete overhaul to the child protection agency, but it is a slow process. I feel so awful about these kids and all kids who have been subjected to such monstrosities, but don't judge until you walk in the shoes of those trying to protect the children. And, yes, we all know that there are those working in that field who have effed up but that should not override the thousands who try to do their job the right way, give all the restrictions.

rock, that's funny because my nephew's girlfriend took their kid out of state to Texas and the Texan judge refused to do anything!

janellect - I bet the judge would have acted if your nephew had been the one to take the child out of state.

My nephew flew down to Texas from the northeast with the court order saying that she could not leave, and nothing was done. Basically, the judge said come back in a few months for another meeting.

Well, obviously some parenting has gone awry when a kid lies to a teacher about something like that.

Parenting isn't perfect. I lied left and right as a child, not as a result of my mother's parenting but because of underlying issues I had that my mother was trying to treat. But, of course, it always makes sense to blame the parenting because it should be 100% foolproof right?

Dolores, today's children know that there is limited allowable punishment, that they have the upper hand over adults, and because they are being raised on the fantasy of television (God help us!!), know that they can get away with very nearly anything. Parents have their hands tied in many aspects when it comes to diciplining and/or punishing their children as they see fit, and kids know it! Just look at the disrespect running rampant throughout the public school system, because the reality is teachers have no authority at all over their students. And parents' authority is becoming more and more limited by this society gone to pot that we live in.

It is attitudes like these that can lead to murder. Children are not property. You do not own them. You do not have the right to do whatever you want to them. The purpose of the government is to protect its citizens. That is why we have laws protecting children from abuse. How often do kids in functional, non-abusive families lie to authorities about being abused? We still owe it to these children to take them seriously and find them a place to stay while these claims are being investigated.

The children in this article were tortured, abused, and eventually one of them was killed by a man because of our already too lenient system. If you are afraid your method of parenting may be considered abuse, it probably is. Good parents can discipline their children without violence. I grew up in a community where spanking or hitting children was unheard of, and most of my friends were well behaved as children and to this day treat our parents with nothing but respect, as they treated us with respect.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sadly, DCF is underfunded to begin with, too many children, not enough case workers. The same people showing outrage because of the outcome, (death) are the same people crying for "less government spending" and "less government intrusion" You can't have it both ways!

And Delores, kids do lie...it's a fact.

I owned a child care center in Florida for many years, and had many dealings with DCF. If we so much as suspect abuse we HAVE to call DCF. They do their investigation, find the parents "okay" and that's it! Of course the parents change school then, because they know who called...

DCF also tries to keep the family "intact" whenever possible, you can imagine a child being TORN from their parent would be traumatic as well, unless they have concrete proof, they don't pull them out of the house....

Sad story....

(The following portion of my comment is "SARCASM IN PROGRESS".)

Hey, Wendy, that's it! You've solved the whole thing! Since parents can raise their kids however they want, we'll just scrap EVERY law we have in place to protect kids from abuse and just let parents do whatever they want.

Kid gets beaten? No big deal, parents are just disciplining them.

Kid has broken bones? Guess they didn't learn from the earlier beating and needed something stronger.

Kid's being sexually abused? Nah, parents are probably just teaching them a lesson, trying to make them more upstanding citizens when they grow up.

Kid's being starved? Hey, food costs money. They want to eat, let them work.

Kid's dead? Hey, one less to worry about, right?

(This concludes the sarcastic portion of my comment.)

Not for nothing, but does anyone else reading this notice how disparate Kate ad Elpea's positions are? Frankly, I think there SHOULD be limits to what a parent can do, but I'm all for giving your kid a flick on the ear or a swat on the butt when they're acting up, and NO, that's NOT "violence".

The problem is partly that too many cases have arisen where parents take things too far, and partly that we have come to treat children as equals to adults, rather than subordinates. The result? We place too much emphasis on legislating almost ANY punishment as "excessive" which prevents parental control, and then give kids the lattitude to get away with too much while still holding the parents accountable.

I agree that children are not property, but that does not mean they are legally free to do whatever they please. Parents are legally responsible for their childrens' upbringing and safety, and that brings with it the authority to take reasonable measures to keep them under control.

And please note, I say PARENTS, not TEACHERS. When I was a kid, if I acted up, the teacher called my parents and let them deal with me. I even saw some parents called to school to take their child out of class, due to their level of rowdiness. The teaches NEVER put their hands on us themselves in a disciplinary fashion, that was the job of the parents. Maybe if parents were more involved with their kids instead of expecting the teachers to keep them in line, some of these problems whould be lessened.

So where DO they put them? Cost cutting doesn't allow foster homes as they once did. maybe you should volunteer to take them in. Too many foster homes are in it for the money. Are they any better?

Mom knew what was going on yet did nothing and now you want the government to override the family's wishes? You removing every kid who makes a comment like that?

I love these after the fact solutions.

Yes I want the govt to take those children away from the MONSTER those govt employees are incompetent and should all be fired...God help all those poor children who needed to be protected from the LACK OF CONCERN and IDIOTS who are in charge...I would have hidden those kids from that animal. Who are these people...a MONSTER fooled them? Sad sad state of that department...EACH and EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM IS AT FAULT...maybe if they thought about PUTTING their OWN children in the hands of a MONSTER they might CARE MORE?

Did you read the article? He didn't kill anyone before this incident. so you want a judgment made on a FUTURE act? As far as anything else he did, his wife denied it all. Nothing was obtained from the kids.

tried to kiss them

Doesn't that cover most parents today? What's your point? You make these accusations based on what you know now. If you took away the kids from every parent who looks unsuitable, most of the south would be childless.

Maybe the guy shooting up the laptop has a anger issue. his kids should be taken away. He MIGHT get violent in the future.

His wife could have provided the needed evidence but chose not to in this case.

Sweetie they weren't "potentially" stabbed. Read the article.

Actually, I think "potentially stabbed" is the correct terminology, for that time period. When they were returned to the parents, stabbing was a potential occurance. Unfortunately, it later became a fact.

Regardless of proper terminology, it's a horrible thing. Those poor kids were afraid of their dad, and somehow should have been listened to. I feel for the agency handling the case, many times their hands are tied, and everyone expects them to work miracles. It's sad for everyone involved.

To the angry mom in ga. Do you have any kids? Did you read your response before sending it? You reference "are you effing kidding me", "his own damn kids", "up your butts", "no wonder our children are effed up in the head". What a good example you must be. ARE YOU REAL?

Are you real:

Yes, I think she's real. Really mad, really upset, really needs to take a break from all the pain that's on this page. Maybe she also needs some therapy to deal with it.