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Subscribe to RSSMSNBC panelists debate whether or not the pipeline is a "no-brainer."
The company behind the controversial Keystone oil pipeline between Canada's Alberta oil fields and the United States on Monday said it would start construction of a southern leg while studying ways to address environmental concerns in the key central portion.
The central stretch has been blocked by the U.S. State Department due to its potential impact in Nebraska, where Republicans as well as Democrats have raised concerns.
TransCanada Corporation said it intends to apply in the near future for approval of the central section once it works out an alternative route. "We would expect our cross border permit should be processed expeditiously and a decision made once a new route in Nebraska is determined," TransCanada President Russ Girling said in a statement issued by the company.
In the meantime, the company noted Monday, the section from Cushing, Okla., to the Texas Gulf Coast will be built. The $2.3 billion section should be in service by late 2013, it stated, and will help to move crude oil backed up in Cushing.
The section north of Nebraska is currently being built and the entire $7 billion pipeline, if approved, would stretch 1,700 miles.
The project has become a lighting rod over energy policy, with Republicans claiming that President Barack Obama is undermining efforts to secure oil and natural gas from friendly sources.
Republicans earlier passed a bill that imposed a Feb. 21 deadline to approve or deny the project, but the Obama administration is waiting for Keystone's alternative before it makes a decision.
THE BOTTOM LINE: How Keystone could raise oil prices for some
The Obama administration had suggested development of an Oklahoma-to-Texas line to alleviate an oil glut at a Cushing storage hub.
White House press secretary Jay Carney said Obama welcomed the announcement.
"Moving oil from the Midwest to the world-class, state-of-the-art refineries on the Gulf Coast will modernize our infrastructure, create jobs, and encourage American energy production," Carney said in a statement. "We look forward to working with TransCanada to ensure that it is built in a safe, responsible and timely manner, and we commit to take every step possible to expedite the necessary federal permits."
TransCanada itself noted that the Obama administration had not ruled out the pipeline. "Reapplying for the Keystone XL permit is supported by words used in President Obama's statement January 18, 2012 when he said the denial of the permit was not based on the merits of the pipeline but rather on an imposed 60-day legislative timeline to make a decision on the project," it stated.
The overall project stalled at the State Department level in January as environmental objections over the pipeline's route and increased development of the Alberta oil sands boiled over, raising difficult political problems for Obama as the election year got under way.
Environmental groups have fought the pipeline tooth and nail, arguing that it would increase pollution from Canada's oil sands production and that jobs estimates are inflated.
The State Department is involved because the project would cross into the U.S. from another country.
Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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And when there is a leak or a spill in the section of the pipeline that runs through my state, I expect every one of you pro-pipeline fanatics to be here and help clean it up before it destroys our wildlife, agriculture, drinking water and economy.
Cam: There are 10's of thousand of miles of pipelines in this country that have been operating since the late 40's. The industry is so tightly governed and controlled by the FERC & PHMSA that breaks are virtually non existent. Breaks normally happen when there is a 3rd party doing something near the line without calling the "call before you dig" hotline
AND the Keystone lines is crude; There are ,000's of miles of gasoline pipelines
link to map showing the biggest:
http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/united_states_pipelines_map.jpg
Sure, we in Alaska know how to clean up.
Something else Obama will be flip flopping on soon enough ....
He'll want credit for it ....
bigbenalaska
Sounds like he already has. probably just realized its election yr and needs to distance himself from his base, so he stands a chance with the independents..
Nice .... Sam
Obama's been flip flopping lately , like a cast net full of freshly caught sardines .... "LOL"
You people are who the republicans had in mind when they orchestrated the whole 'let's attach the keystone approval to the payroll tax cut bill so the state department will be forced to deny it' stunt...congrats.
Cameron, come to the light .... you are in some distant, unknown world, and need to come back to earth and reality. Yes, this will be just another pipeline granted using larger pipe and a longer dedication of use. Or, would you prefer to shut down all pipelines criss-crossing the US presently, and add about 200,000 tanker trucks and rail tankers overnight to already over-utilized system of roads and rails and move those same products over-land? Do you really want that many hundreds of thousands of barrels of crude and fuel running through and around major cities and small towns every week? ... burning that much fuel in the process?
You mean the independents? Because thats what I am. I find I can follow up on the facts and vote in the country's best interest. Without having to tow or cower to the party line.
If you think this was flip-flopping you just weren't listening. Boehner tried using his extortion tactics and Obama clearly said "no" to the tactics, but not to the pipeline.
I'm personally not sure whether I support the pipeline or not... but I'm sure enjoying all heads that are exploding right now... on BOTH sides.
The fact that you think Obama is flip flopping shows you are mindlessly buying into the narrative that the Republicans setup with their previously mentioned political stunt. I'm glad you don't need to vote on party lines, that's what we need...I just think you need to do a little more of the 'following up on the facts' on this particular issue.
Obama clearly said no .... LMarcT
Flip flopped on corporate taxes ....
Flip flopped on birth control ....
Now , the pipe line .... "LOL"
why do you "LOL" after everything you type? You surprised yourself at what YOU were typing? "Hyuk, hyuk, I didn't see that one coming, thats a good one."
@phil what a lot of ppl dont know is that there is a keystone pipeline 1 already in service.
So far they're had 12 spills and its only been running a year!!!
With that kind of track record why would anyone in their right mind want to build another one!!!!
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/08/17/297576/oil-spills-transcanada-keystone-xl-pipeline/?mobile=nc
Also since these are tar sand oils they have caustic chemicals added to the tar to thin it and its under high pressure.
Basically built to break. Just say NO!!
why not this instead?
New Biorefinery Converts Grass Straight to Gasoline.
It is really too bad we can't build the refineries were the product is in the ground. There have been no green grass refineries built in the U.S.A. for over thirty years. This is one of many reasons we see price spikes because there is no reserve refining capacity.
My understanding is this new . so i am not sure where the thirty years came from?
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, it hit Cameron Ford on the head, and it hit it hard. LOL. When was the last time you heard of a leak on the Alaska pipeline? There hasn't been any. A pipeline has multiple pumping stations along the pipeline and are manned by a hundred operators at each station 24/7. Any leak detected will trigger automatic shutdown of all the pumps and flow stops.
As soon as obama said he wanted to delay a decision on the pipeline until 2013 he politicised it. Think he didn't? Think again. He says he wants jobs, but if he gave the pipeline a go ahead prior to the nov elections he would lose the tree hugger support, but pick up union support and vice versa. By kicking the can down the road past november he sought to still have both the union and tree hugger support. That's called buying votes.
-----------------
Bruce dekalb - please consider the following....
At best, a local refinery will probably cost more and take longer to build (after waiting for all the EPA studies) than a pipeline.
New distribution routes for the refined products would also have to be built. rather than existing gulf facilities.
Yes, it is sad that more refineries couldn't be built. Between the cost of new construction, time to go online and EPA regs it may be another 30 years for any new refineries.
Pipeline leaks (if they occur) would be confined to crude oil. Refinery and distribution contamination carries a higher risk and a larger variety of spills.
IMAGINE!
Republicans scream for lower gas prices, yet they want the pipeline to Texas port so oil will be at higher world prices. Republicans want cheaper gas, yet vote against changing laws on speculation of oil prices that make gas more expensive. Republicans want lower taxes , yet vote against big oil paying their fair share of taxes while big oil rakes in record oil profits. Republicans want lower gas prices but want to bomb the hell out of Iran now which is causing fear and more speculation on oil causing higher gas prices. Well at least they are consistant, they want to ruin the country in every case.
It will be interesting to see what the tribes have to say about the pipeline here in Oklahoma. They are waging a water war right now trying to protect water from Sardis lake and other water resources from being sold to Texas.
As stewards of the environment the state legislature fails miserably, but the tribal Sovereign Nations actually control many of the states natural resources and they may have thing or two to say about the pipeline.
It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Like Yogi said, it ain't over, until it's over.
Stay tuned.
So I guess what many would rather have seen is for the President to have approved a pipeline before the route had been decided? I guess then no matter where it went, or who it forced to move or anything else everyone would have been happy.
Politicians know the average voter can barely read or carry a thought, and they use that to their advantage everyday, they are made to look smart while those who fall for their tactics appear to have less sense than a 5th grader.
Ok, so let's build the pipeline. That would mean cheaper gas, and energy independence, a win, win, for America. So why is this the case?
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/27/10519685-why-the-keystone-pipeline-would-boost-pump-prices
Tao of Wow (1.16)
This is a pipeline not a refinery no green grass refineries built for over thirty years. Read first then comment.
green grass refineries is suppose to be a new things as laid out in the article I posted. Why not this instead refers to how about this tech instead of pipeline. I didn't asked to be rude. I am not sure got that i was saying the pipeline is a refinery. How about this instead would have been the clue for me but hey everybody is different.
People want a beneficial environment as well. And concerns about consequences this stuff has on the environment are legitimate. What the 50 year and 100 year and 200 year plan for dealing with the structures that promote and facilitate flow of the oil. who does profit from it? clear step by step instructions how this benefits Americans people, and away to look to know we are not paying costs other places Which means clearing up how oil is sold to begin with. Gasbuddy shows a great average of gas prices for the last 6 years. how does gas drop from $4.12 to $1.61 in a period of 5 months? Or a offshoot cousin looking for oil, fraking. fracking is causing environmental damage how is that being dealt with? also long term structure maintenance, what is the plan for that.
check to see how many miles of pipeline are in your state allready mr. ford
Build the damn thing! Hell run it through Iowa! I'm sure we'd appreciate the construction and maintenance jobs!
Of course the Obummer administration is happy. They didn't have to do anything that would upset their base of enviroMENTALists.
So it would seem the rejection of the existing route wasn't the end of the world after all. Take a deep breath people and move on to the next reason to mindlessly rail against the president.
The keystone pipeline is about the only shovel ready job Obama can come up with.
This couldn't come at a better time with the government causing gas prices to rise.
Please try reading sometimes. The gov. does not influence the price of gas, or oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The gov. most certainly influences the price of gas and oil. They restrict the supply of oil raisin the price of both gas and oil. They also impose a tax on tax which could be removed to help people struggling with the price of gas.
How does the govt restrict supply? And for your information, the Keystone XL oil will be shipped overseas, it isn't for North American markets. So your dreams of cheap gas are a little premature...
Detroit, what is your source for shipping oil from the keystone oil pipeline overseas. It certainly wouldn't go to China from the gulf. Oil supertankers can't transit the Panama canal. Canada would just build a pipeline to its west coast if the oil was going to Asia. The government restricts supply by limiting oil production. The less oil the higher the price. Obama and Congress are a major factor why the price of oil is so high.
what about this instead?
New Biorefinery Converts Grass Straight to Gasoline.
Of course it could go to China, you do realize the earth is round, right? And it wouldn't be the crude being shipped, it would be refined products.
@Common,
and when did I say China? YOU did. I said "overseas". There are many countries overseas. Even South America is considered "overseas", depending on the nomenclature. If you are going to quote a website, you should at least annotate.
South America is flush with oil look at Brazil and Venezuela.
Common, where did I say China? And the fact that you cannot follow a reasonable line of discussion is not my problem it is yours. Your stooping to insults does not make you point very compelling.
South America doesn't have as many refineries, please try to keep up. And there is also Europe. Do you understand anything about geography?
Why would we transport oil to Europe thay get most of their oil from closer sources such as Africa and the Middle East.
It is a heck of a lot easier to build a refinery in South America than it is in the US.
I sailed the oceans for many years sonny. I know a bit about geography. Have you ever been out of your parents basement?
Try to keep up.
Refineries, refineries, refineries. This is about finished product, not raw crude. I am trying to keep up with you, but I can only dumb it down so much.
The US isn't the only country with refineries check out list in the attachment.
Try to open your mind and not just be driven by political ideology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries
No, it is not. But it is much cheaper to add capacity to existing refineries than to build new ones. Another is that companies are not willing to take is that a government could come in and nationalize production, like Venezuela. Then the oil company will be out all their capital investment. Politically and economically it makes more sense to refine in the U.S. because it is alot safer. Yes, you could build in foreign countries, and they have refineries that could be expanded. Current regulations in Europe make that very expensive, and for South America political instability and lack of skilled workers, corruption, and other factors make that less than appealing.
How would I know? I work for a company that has a division that makes industrial controls for refineries. Me and some of the directors sometimes have lunch together.
FYI information, you don't know my political ideology, so stop projecting. I stick to facts.
I'm happy to see that the executives at TransCanada had no trouble hearing what President Obama said! "TransCanada itself noted that the Obama administration had not ruled out the pipeline. "Reapplying for the Keystone XL permit is supported by words used in President Obama's statement January 18, 2012 when he said the denial of the permit was not based on the merits of the pipeline but rather on an imposed 60-day legislative timeline to make a decision on the project," it stated."
If the Republicans would get out of their own way and look at what is best for the American people -- JOBS, JOBS, JOBS -- instead of desperately trying to make President Obama a ONE-TERM president, and then falsely accusing him of NOT wanting the pipeline under ANY circumstances, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The American people are NOT stupid. They can recognize obstructionism when they see it -- especially since it's been the Right's mantra from Day One of his presidency.
Kudos to the Canadians for recognizing what our president actually said!
Commonman...can you read the article...can you see the little colored lines that show Texas port....and you want to know how do people know the oil is going overseas and world market prices...? Hey Common...I had a girlfriend a long time ago that had a waterbed and we sailed the seven seas too! AAAAARRRRRGGGGhhHH.
All of you guys for this pipeline know that it is not conventional crude they are transporting right? It is bitumen that has to be reproccessesd at great expense of energy and water in order to be used in vehicles. This stuff is normally used in making asphalt.
The Tar Sands collection of crude bitumen equals nearly 85% of the World's supply of bitumen which equates out to as more or more when compared to the supply of crude, it also take, as mentioned, much water and energy to covert it into something that can be used as fuel and is way more polluting then conventional crude.
The pipeline will also do nothing to lower our prices, it will actually raise them without giving us a single drop of oil because it is all going to the world market through Port Aurthur where there are no export taxes.
http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/
Also the steel being used in constructing it comes from India and is the same steel that was used in making the pipeline this one diverges from. That main pipeline had, at one point, 12 breaks in a year, due to the faulty steel from India, and the official word is that they expect a pipeline spill within seven years after construction.
There is no reward for a lot of risk and so it is not logical to allow it to be built.
The Sand Hills is a gigantic aquifer that is critical. Running a pipeline on it is insanely ignorant.
Given the fact that the pipeline doesn't HAVE to run over the aquifer, rerouting seems like the prudent thing to do. But this is politics and the word prudent doesn't exist in any known political lexicon.
Forcing a quick approval by the state department was a cheap election year stunt by the republicans so they'd have a 'gotchya' moment. Can't blame them though, they knew people would fall far it...and they didn't disappoint.
This is nothing new. Pipelines have been around for many years. This one however, being touted by the redumblicans, has an inflated jobs number. Oh how they pitched a fit when Obama said he wanted to wait! Then it was Obama didn't want workers here in the U.S.A. getting jobs. All they were really mad about is the delay of big money flowing into their bank accounts! Obama never once said he wouldn't ok this. So, all that restupid rhetoric was just the same ol shat from the retardlicants! Will we ever hear the end of their stupidity? No, probably not. Now when they do get this going, the reduplicates will say its all their doing to get the economy going again, you watch. They never give up, always going against the grain, rub me the wrong way.
Wait a minute.....repubs are not about jobs, they have not come up with one jobs bill, just lowering taxes on top 1%. Repubs do want to ban contraceptives and ban sex for everyone except married couples......That's all Santorum talks about........jobs? During their debate the other night Gingrich did not want to talk about contraceptives, but they all did talk about it...13 times......Jobs?
Make your point without being insulting... it only dimishes you. And I really don't care if you are a Democrat, Independant, Libertarian, Republican, etc.
What land are you living in Phil?
The existing Keystone 1 tar sands pipeline has spilled more than 12 times in its first 12 months of operation. In July 2010, a spill of more than 800,000 gallons of toxic tar sands crude from the Enbridge pipeline contaminated more than 30 miles of water and shoreline along the Kalamazoo River in Michigan. This created public health problems, threats to groundwater, widespread fish kills, and destruction of wildlife habitat, contamination that is still being cleaned up at a cost exceeding $700 million, which by the way you and I pay for.
That's not all- the oil, once in the Gulf Coast will most likely be exported as it is being done now. The demand for gas is down so far we are actually exporting ours. Speculators have driven the price up at a time when the good people of the US are actually consuming less. So we have a surplus right now. With access to the internet there is no excuse for anyone's ignorance on this subject.
Aptly put we need fresh air, clean water and food. Everything else is secondary. Thousands of miles of pipelines already? A good excuse NOT to add more. We already have more than we can use. And the jobs to be created? It is an empty promise. They use inferior Chinese steel to build these things. Jobs are being promised in states where the pipeline doesn't even go. All the investors are foaming at the mouth over the billions they can make transporting to China. Wake up Phil, and anyone else who thinks trashing our environment to make billionaires wealthier is a good idea. We will reap no benefit from this disaster in the making.
At V Fisher
This statement is about as far from the truth as any that I have ever seen. I suggest that you follow your own adive and wake up.
Great post. Enbridge had another spill recently and it has been short of media attention. The pipelines being used today are so old they are virtually "rusting" away. Some are as old as 75 years. One major spill into the Great Lakes and the whole country will go ballistic. This pipeline benefits no one but the exporters. Koch refineries are being shut down as we speak so as to inflate oil prices. The oil industry claim that supply and demand is the reason for the gas hike, is just a different way of saying to the public that "We will get the most money we can by hook or crook". Perhaps it is time for a discussion on Nationalizing all oil reserves on Federal land and forget the private sector that keeps holding the entire country as hostage. They are forcing the public to take action that they could have avoided. It's a new age and the people will start making demands that big oil will really hate.
@VFisher: I am not sure where you get your information, but it isn't true. Inferior chinese steel??? I hate to tell you but this pipeline is built with the highest quality materials on the planet. Also, don't worry about China.....Canada is also building a pipeline to British Columbia for that oil.
If you want to hear lies about Republicans...go to a Democratic website. If you want lies about the pipeline, go to an environmental website.
Fisher is right except that the steel comes from India.
yes I'll follow my own adive and swim in the oil spills the hopeless are planning
Mr grover, the gop, & the rushbo wants our country to get into the gasoline export business in a big way, expanding our gasoline exports to europe, asia, & south america today by at least 10 fold. It is an attempt to try to keep soaring gasoline prices down below $6/gallon.
If this is their wish, then uncap all of the oil wells that were capped back in the mid 70's. A huge amount of the capped wells were high producers at the time of the capping. This capping occurred during and right after the OPEC embargo. PS: Those American oil producers are now owned and, controlled by overseas companies.
Also note that the crude oil from Canada will be of a high viscosity more like flowing molasses than normal crude oil. Hydrogen will be used, primarily to change that crude to a low viscosity product much like kerosene rather than gasoline at the refinery.
Wanna use this oil in your vehicle? Then think anew unless it is a diesel.
Facts: This study identified several key issues on the cost, timeliness, and ease with which shale oil can be introduced into the United States' refining system. The capacity of the existing refining industry to process raw shale oil is limited by the availability of surplus hydrogen for severe hydro-treating. The existing crude oil pipeline system will encounter difficulties in handling raw shale oil's high viscosity, pour point, and contaminant levels. The cost of processing raw shale oil as an alternate to petroleum crude oil is extremely variable and primarily dependent upon the percentage of shale oil run in the refinery, as well as the availability of excess hydrogen. A large fraction of any shale oil which is produced will be refined by the major oil companies who participate in the shale oil projects and who do not anticipate problems in processing the shale oil in their refineries. Shale oil produced for sale to independent refiners will initially be sold as boiler fuel. A federal shale oil storage program might be feasible to supplement the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Based on refinery configurations, hydrogen supply, transportation systems, and crude availability, eleven refineries in Petroleum Administration for Defense Districts (PADDs) 2A and 2B have been identified as potential processors of shale oil. Based on refining technology and projected product demands to the year 2000, shale oil will be best suited to the production of diesel fuel and jet fuel. Tests of raw shale oil in boilers are needed to demonstrate nitrogen oxide emissions control.
Lets talk about sensationalism....on both sides really. But in this particular situation, the Right. You can have your opinion about good idea or bad idea....I dont care. But the sensationalism of this story is a perfect example of how you as individuals are being "Fed" tiny bits of "message" without full scope of the story and jumping off ledges with little to no information of what your even talking about. Not that your an idiot....just that your easily worked into a frenzy over nothing.
This Pipeline ideas was brought up in January by the Rep. party with an unbelievable short deadline of Feb 21st.....why Feb 21st?? no reason at all.....just a date picked so that the Rep. party could "Rush" passage and look like strong men. The President had been waiting for this bill to come forward, he was actually interested in it, because it meant production work for the people of the gulf region and could lower cost of gas being brought higher by the instability of Iran.... got it so far?....sounds like a sound plan. The Feb 21st deadline did not allow the Dems voting of this, to review the route. IT would have only allowed time for a up or down vote on the item. The White House, anticipating the coming of this item had people ready to review the route as soon as it came in and was able to notice that the purposed rout took it through some environmentally protected land. Do you think the Rep's knew about the route? OF Course they did....why else the quick push deadline for no reason?
The White House , reviews the route and says....Look, we want this but you have to re route the pipeline around the protected land. The Pipeline company says...."OK" We'll have another plan to you inside a month. President says, good, see you then. Rep.'s and talking head for the party start with the "OOOHHH I cant believe he stopping oil production, and he doesnt want to put people back to work, blah...blah...blah!" when that's not really the case now is it....... SENSATIONALISM and the people that don't do their own research, while spouting party talking points without any idea of what they speak.......that s the real problem here.
Dont bother replying to me "party line people"...I wont be sticking around to argue with you about "what a terrible person Obama is", this editorial was not meant for you anyway...its for the people that still have a mind of their own......... Dont be someones tool, read more than one account on any story, consider your sources and follow through on your investigation of a story.
Now.....let the haters begin! ;) See ya!
Upstanding nailed the truth down perfectly. This is the real situation, but you won't find that on Fake Fox news.
Yep, and you probably take the news from MSNBC and CNN as gosphel. I get my news from multiple sources... yes including FOX.
Phil-673730........you said:
You said in October 2008:
You seem to be a person who tends to discount (even personal) environmental dangers. Furthermore, you are prone to rationalize and find reasons to avoid personal responsibility.
This is pertinent here because the Keystone XL pipeline offers immediate gratification (like smoking) at the risk of long-term disaster (like cancer, emphysema, heart disease, etc.).
Like many inveterate smokers, even disease does not always deter. But, it usually does cure (via death).
You should listen to Cameron Ford who has a bigger stake in this debate than do you.
BTW---
Are you aware that this (Keystone XL) pipeline is proposed to be routed by taking the PRIVATE property (via eminent domain) of American citizens who DO NOT want to sell (or lease) their property for that purpose?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/us/transcanada-in-eminent-domain-fight-over-pipeline.html?pagewanted=all
What, are you some kind of stalker? You remember what people wrote or said years ago. Just sayin.... might want to check your own backyard.
Click on the Phil-673730 quote onermailliw.....It was the VERY FIRST quote by that username.
Perhaps you don't understand or appreciate the reasons Newsvine makes user comment histories available for reference and study.
Just as the candidates should think carefully before they speak, so should everyone. That is because what we say and do defines us (in the eyes of others). That is particularly so when one chooses to express opinions publicly.
Example: You said:
Given your penchant for making statements such as that above, it is little wonder you are super-sensitive to anyone recalling your attention to them. Did you get a visit? Be advised, you are noticed.
YOU are a scary person Ian Emdee!!!! Anyone that checks out every statement that is not in agreement with them needs a life! (or maybe a job with the SS Stormtroopers)
You just keep running scared USA/Canuck......Perhaps that will deter you from making unwise statements.
In any case, we (democrats) prefer you expend your energies running from one username to the next.
Regarding your reference to fascists:
Benito Mussolini said:
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (who defeated fascists) said:
It seems YOU here are the one towing the CORPORATE line.
BTW---How do you feel about TransCanada threatening American citizens with eminent domain? Is that proper behavior for a FOREIGN corporation?
Another Obama cave like Gitmo, knowing his base will vote for him no matter how badly he screws his supporters. Both he and the rest of Americans know Obama's supporters are stupid and easily led.
Stupid and easily led pretty much sums up your quote.
If having a Prez that actually listens to both sides of an argument and makes rationale intelligent decisions given the facts which is what Mr. Obama is doing then color me stupid and easily led but if believing everything the right wing nut jobs say about this pipeline being critical to our job and energy security and if we actually take a little time and make sure it doesn't have flaws like being put in an environmentally sensitive area the world will probably never be the same. Instead of spending all the effort trying to convince us we are stupid perhaps you should give some thought to why we wouldn't want someone who knows that both the environment and the countries energy needs are important. We are using less and producing more oil than in the past but as other nations such as China consume more the price of oil will still rise so drill baby drill isn't going to solve the problem.
Every time something like this happens, here comes the folks with ban the guns. Ban the guns ,and they will make fire bombs like they do in other parts of the world.Banning is not the answer. But holding the person that the gun belongs to is.
O.o
Frank, you lost? other story.
frank, try to remember that you want to seem like you are expressing your own outrage at the libtard anti-gun fascists, not the propaganda we are paying you to post. and i am impressed with your attempt to sound like some regular guy. but random postings like this one can give you away, try to be more careful.
The central stretch has been blocked by the U.S. State Department due to its potential impact in Nebraska, where Republicans as well as Democrats have raised concerns.
This is typical bias media reporting. You would think all Republicans and all Democrats had concerns the way it reads which is false. It may have been accurate if it read "some Republicans and many Democrats had concerns". I guess the media is having great success by putting a spin on the facts to improve the Obama voter base. Obama should have to claim the media as a campaign contribution.
It's amusing watching so many people claiming this is a 'flip flop' by Obama. He said multiple times he was in favor of the pipeline, as long as it went around the groundwater that Nebraska depends on. TransCanada is fine with this, and is working to create an alternate route.
Obama and TransCanada are having a civil discussion and negotiation, while Republicans are screaming like they're watching an episode of Jerry Springer.
exactly like Springer, this is just theater of the absurb...
Everybody that lives in the states where that pipe line goes through should be raising holy hell right now with their state legislators, their congressmen and senators. Those people need to be warned that the oil companies don't even have to say "please" if they want to run their pipe line under their houses; their pastures, and their farmland. Any oil or gas pipe-line is always an environment disaster waiting to happen....and here we're looking at a privately owned oil pipe line that bisects our whole country. One that will go through vital food producing farmland....a pipe line that will go over a huge fresh water aquifer that runs under the mid west....and the people who own that land and live there will have no say whatsoever...because of emminent domain given to the oil companies by their own politicians. People who live in those states that are at risk---your own representatives have betrayed you. It's a lie that this pipe line will create thousands of jobs. The truth is it would create about 6,500 basically temporary jobs. It is a lie that this oil is "our" oil. The truth is that it's coming from Canada to the Gulf coast refineries to be sold to other countries...not to the US. This oil belongs to the Koch brothers. And last----it's the crappiest, dirtiest kind of oil--oil sands--with the consistency of peanut butter, and it'll be going through pipe supplied by the lowest bidder. Be afraid---be very afraid.
Divert the pipeline to Northern Wisconsin, we can use the jobs and the refinery will not get shut down by a hurricane. Where is Walker when there is a chance to create some real jobs? Then we can use it here.
That is why they are sending the crude to Houston area because they have the refineries to handle that much crude. The oil will not be used in the USA because of the high sulphur content but the USA would still have the jobs from piping and refining. The cost to build one refinery is almost the cost to build the whole pipeline !
It is also far cheaper to expand production at an existing refinery than build a new one.
detroit
We would have cheaper gas now too. If they would use those refineries. We now have 11 refineries not producing a damn thing. A lot of the others are working to produce products to ship over seas. Now we are going to build a pipeline across this country so Canada can use our ports to ship their product over seas too. Tell me how this is going to help us again?
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm
http://www.active-investor.com/fuel-number-1-export-in-u-s-since-1949-3455
I would urge all of you who still have questions about the pipeline to Google Ted Turner's essay about it. I know he has a liberal bias, but the evidence he gathers for his position is pretty powerful. I would also urge the Obama haters to do the same, but I know they wouldn't bother, and even if they did, they wouldn't believe it. Their ideology tells them otherwise.
Ideology blinds both sides to the facts.
Why would they put a man in a position to have to argue a point with three clueless women !
Fricking-Fracking will kill Mother Earth.... Cheney made sure the drilling companies doing the injections didnt have to report all the different chemicals they use to crack the earth, scary stuff going on with the non-conscious corporate world.
There is an upside to having gas come out of your faucets in big flames, great for marshmellow roasting, hotdogs, browning a turkey.......
Imagine that. A panel of MSNBC "no-brainers" discussing whether the Keystone pipeline construction is a "no-brainer".
Ken, I think MSNBC is part of Obama's truth squad.
Gasp...Commonman, you have it right finally...it is a truth squad...imagine that. Needed to counter the lies night and day from Faux news and the GOP.
The whole political push for this outrageous pipeline is an affront to US sovereignty and to the will of the citizenry of this country.
Not just No to this pipeline Hell No!!!
Dr,
You're a little late. OK, TX and TransCanada are going ahead. And soon as NE agrees to an alternate route, that section will go ahead, too. The 20,000 American jobs are badly needed.
Road Warrior,
Sorry to rain on your parade but this pipeline is not in the national interest of the United States of America.
1) It will not produce many jobs.
2) Most of those job’s it creates would be temporary in nature.
3) It would put up the price of gasoline.
4) The United States takes all of the risk and with practically no benefit.
5) We would have a 1700 mile long blight on the landscape.
6) It would contribute to global warming.
7) The oil it would carry goes to the world oil market.
In short it is an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen at US taxpayers expense.
Much better to create long term jobs with clean energy initiatives such as solar powered sterling engines.
Go to moneymorning.com/2011/12/20/five-fallacies-of-the-keystone-oil-pipeline/
Dr veruju: Democrat talking points I see...
Actually the price of gas would go down since transport costs for crude from Canada, our largest supplier of crude would go down. Mr. Buffet and Soros would no doubt take a hit since they are involved in the RRs and benefit from the transporting of the crude.
There is minimal risk.
Pipelines are underground and there are already tens of thousands of miles crossing the country of which you are unaware apparently and they are less unsightly than a electric transmission line.
The pipeline has nothing todo with global warming.
The oils would go to gulf coast refineries to be made into product for sale in this country. Your complete ignorance of the industry and marketing is astounding. Last I heard, Vallero, the countries largest refiner, has no gas stations over seas. They sell all the refine at their network of convinience stores or supply product to other distributors.
It is no greater disaster than the Alaska Pipeline was.
Your green energy ideas are a scam, look a Alestra and the other green investment ventures the US taxpayer paid into that are going belly up. My question is how much money did Barry and Michelle net in kickbacks on those "investments".
Just when I thought it was good to be an American again. I just heard about this terrible terrible reversel to go ahead with the Keystone XL PIPELINE. I think it is a mockery of democracy in this country. The American people have been lied to for so long it has become the norm. It will create 150,000 jobs it will create 1,200 jobs. There are over 20 million people unemployed in this country. At what cost are we willing to get a handfull of jobs. To create one of the most toxic enviromental projects. Go to PBS FRONTLINE: DVD HEAT. We can't continue to live this way. It is not sustainable. I know you can't afford $5 a gallon for gas. Well bubie Europe has been paying over $5 a liter for gas for a long long time so get over it. They killed the Electric Car in 2006 then 2 years later they bring it back. Do you have a short memory or what. I encourage all to write and phone there Representitives and Congress person. You can go to 350.org to get telephone numbers for your government representitives. Your voice needs to be heard.
For the first time in my life, I am proud of my country.
That's why every job we can get is important.
We are not Europeans. Get over it.
And that was a mistake. It's a toy for elitists. Nobody will pay $45,000 ($55,000 without federal subsidy) for a car that has to be charged every 40 miles and having to wait 4 hours to "fill up".